{"id":150237,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150237","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052730241e8137509a06ede38528f72d0f5f8ba9b0039caa7a6e70cc8ca7686fb325ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"11:15:27 - 11:26:12","影片長度":"00:10:45","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「落實特殊教育法配套措施及普特融合教育實施概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（3月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-4"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":645,"end_time":"2024-03-21T11:26:12+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T11:15:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":529,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時15分）謝謝主席。麻煩主席幫我邀請次長。"],["主席：次長，謝謝。"],["林次長騰蛟：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：次長好。有關普特融合、融合教育，我想這就是讓特殊生跟我們在一個正常化的環境之下學習成長，透過團體生活教學相長，兩方不管是正常的學生和我們特殊的孩子，大家一起來努力、互相包容學習。","我也要跟你報告現場的一些案例，因為我來自基層，很多老師及自己的學校都會跟我們分享。有一個六年級的學生有中度自閉狀況，會不定時發出聲音大叫，也經常離開教室，我想這是普特融合可能遇到、也常態化的狀況。從1年級開始到5年級都有教助員隨班輔助，所以跑出教室的時候，老師就不會擔心，可以繼續上課，現場同學的狀況也比較容易安撫，這已經是融合制度下最好的結果。可是去年9月新學期開始，他的教助員被取消，也就是教育局因經費不足為由，不再補助時薪，此後，他們班的上課情形只能用慘不忍睹來形容。對不起，以上這些都是現場第一線的老師跟我分享的，授課教師遇到孩子不穩定的時候，要停下課來處理這一個狀況，當這個孩子跑出教室，老師也沒辦法跟出去，就打電話請學校學務處、輔導室幫忙找人。我想，老師到底要走出去還是不走出去？這段時間，其實暗藏很多的危機，你不知道這個孩子他會發生什麼樣的狀況。由於情況一直失控，該生家長只好自費請人當教助員，難道我們的融合教育的意思就是讓特教機構的人才減輕負擔以後，把問題丟給普通的教師，又把教助員抽走，再把問題丟給家長嗎？光是我這樣子描述現場的狀況，雖是用三言兩語把它簡單解釋完，但是可以想像這個班上的同學和老師每天都在一個隨時會爆發的狀況當中，等待這樣一個時機點的出現。","我想這已經算是一個比較溫和的案例了，他只是亂跑亂叫而已，還有的會打罵同學、打罵老師、干擾上課的情形，都有可能。這就是我們一直在講的，所以希望4年增加1,600位教助員，但是這樣一個零星的案件是因為費用不足，也一直期盼著費用趕緊到位，這部分，次長，您有掌握這些狀況嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：跟委員報告一下，剛才有提到，針對身心障礙學生申請特教助理員的時數部分，我們核准的比例大概78%。"],["羅委員廷瑋：是。"],["林次長騰蛟：所以雖然不是都能夠滿足全部身心障礙學生的需求，但是以目前來講，還沒有增加經費之前，大概有將近八成的部分可以得到這樣子的協助。至於剛剛委員提到臺中市有這樣的個案，可能要進一步瞭解，因為經費的部分，我們是核撥給各縣市政府，由各縣市政府分配給各個學校針對身心障礙學生需要的部分去做處理，所以是不是有什麼原因以致中間取消了特教助理員的補助，可能我們要個案再進行瞭解，針對……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想，當然地方的教育局也有責任。"],["林次長騰蛟：對，針對身障生的一些身障相關服務的部分，除了特教助理員時數申請之外，還包含學校行政的一些支持，學校也應該針對個別身障生的需要來提供一些協助，制定IEP個別的計畫，我想這個部分也應該要督促學校來辦理。我們這一次特教法修正之後，也特別針對特教助理員，也希望能夠在原來的基礎上，過去我們大概是一年編10億元，未來會持續再增加10億元，是額外的增加，所以針對重度以上的月薪制專任助理員，還有針對中度以下身心障礙者提供時薪制特教助理員的服務。我相信在經費的挹注以及我們的重視之下，應該比以前對身心障礙學生的照顧會更好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：次長，署長也在旁邊，在你們的政策之下，未來的展望可預期是往好的方向，可是時間每分每秒都在流逝，這1分這1秒可能狀況就發生了。我還是覺得在這4年內補足這些名額之前，要有所謂的短、中、長期的部署，想辦法處理這些零星的狀況，甚至我們遇到這一次在臺北市發生的個案，我們有沒有一個SOP？我相信這一次臺北市的個案應該有討論到可能是老師不太知道現場的狀況、要不要交接，在這一次的狀況當中，我們有沒有去探討各校的SOP訂定？把每一次的事件變成SOP，讓我們下一次能夠預防並有整個系統性的部署，這個部分有什麼想法？"],["林次長騰蛟：好，謝謝羅委員的建議。除了我們原來的處理流程跟程序之外，當然針對一些個案，我們希望在發生之後也能夠做一些檢討並做得更精緻，就以臺北市這個個案來看，針對這種特教學生情緒處理的部分，尤其包含這次個案裡面的老師是一個代理教師……"],["羅委員廷瑋：代理教師，他說他不太知情。"],["林次長騰蛟：他不太瞭解班上的學生……"],["羅委員廷瑋：起初有一些言語的衝突，但後續老師沒有跟他有肢體上的衝突，所以我個人認為，其實老師也跟我講，這一次的案例可以當作教材，讓更多普特融合的過程可以探討。我希望每一次的危機、每一次的事件能夠成為教材，讓學校方作為SOP的訂定，所以我希望次長應該要來做一個案件的檢討，之後告訴每一個學校去布建這樣的SOP，可以嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：是，謝謝羅委員很好的建議，這個部分我們國教署會邀請各縣市政府針對特教學生情緒處理的SOP，來制定標準的作業程序，提供給各主管機關以及各學校來做一個參考。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然，我們現在除了增加教助員，我還是希望善用流浪教師補足教育人力的缺口，這是我們最期待的。流浪教師這件事情、這個名詞已經不是現在才聽到了，大家長期都很關注這件事情。在普特融合的情況之下，能不能善用流浪教師，讓他們在我們的教師環境中有機會來付出，我想也希望您能夠對於這方面有所瞭解、有所態度，是不是能夠往這個方向？"],["林次長騰蛟：是，跟委員報告一下，針對我們所謂的「儲備教師」，目前具有特教類科的儲備教師，比較活躍的大概還有3,800人，每一年我們平均核發的教師證書大概是800張，初任老師近三年每一年平均大概是500人，這個部分我們也會持續針對專任教師的甄聘以及聘足專任教師，會朝這個部分來督導，跟縣市政府來做一個妥善的處理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，這個也是為他們發聲，也希望在融合教育的情況之下，有更多更多的契機可以更加的融洽，讓每一個家長都能夠安心。","因為我其實準備蠻多議題要跟您做探討，但是因為今天我們整體的時間有限，還有關於公托的部分，其實大家都很關注，剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關注這些議題。其實我自己本身有3個孩子，我們對於公托、公幼這個部分都非常的關注，立意良善，第三期的草案有這樣的一個規劃，我們當然都希望重罰，但是要不要連帶罰？可能民意有這些傾向，我們也希望能夠從嚴來看待，但是我們畢竟還是要知道，就剛剛署長有回應到如果真的連帶罰，造成了孩子整個需要安置，就我目前看到的狀況，我實際在擔任議員的時候，臺中市有某一些機構被停止以後，他要安置其實真的並不是非常方便，因為光要找新的公幼、公托安置，這個部分非常難找尋，再來就是要轉介到私托、私幼，那私托、私幼有一些就是距離上的問題，你也知道如果能夠就近讓孩子能夠安置、上課的話，在家長上、下班途中是最方便的考量，所以我並不覺得安置這件事情很好做。安置是我們的大方向、是我們一定要做的，但我們還是希望一定要把整個配套都做好，所以我非常、非常地樂見剛剛你們這邊所說的，就是要跟六大團體來做探討。我們希望草案出來了，但是一定要落實溝通再來做執行，我們希望政策能滾動式修正，這是好的，但不要每一次都把滾動式修正變成是主要的方針，這也會讓我們感到事情是不是還沒有準備好就要做，這個部分您可以回答嗎？"],["林次長騰蛟：是的，謝謝委員，剛剛我們彭署長有提到，3月底之前針對幼兒園退場以及新制的部分我們會對外公布，過程當中我們也會跟相關團體做好溝通的工作，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請范雲委員，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":454,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-4","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","葉元之","林宜瑾","羅廷瑋","范雲","吳春城","王鴻薇","陳秀寳","林倩綺","黃珊珊","羅智強","何欣純","黃捷","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":393,"meetingDate":["2024-03-21"],"gazette_id":"1131701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部列席就「落實特殊教育法配套措施及普特融合教育實施概況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131701_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150237","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150237","tool":"pyannote","id":"150237-pyannote"},"job_id":"8nW7KO6Ye35CdOPN","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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95.354, \"end\": 95.534, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 95.534, \"end\": 96.375, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 96.375, \"end\": 96.575, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 96.575, \"end\": 96.895, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 96.895, \"end\": 97.195, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"享\", \"start\": 97.195, \"end\": 97.515, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 97.515, \"end\": 97.535, \"score\": 0.027}]}, {\"start\": 98.115, \"end\": 124.122, \"text\": \"那授課教師遇到不穩定的時候要停下課來處理這一個狀況那當這個孩子跑出教室老師也沒辦法跟出去那就打電話請學校的學務處、輔導室幫忙找人這段時間我想老師到底要走出去還是不走出去那這段時間其實暗藏了很多危機你不知道這個孩子他會發生什麼樣的狀況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 98.115, \"end\": 98.375, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"授\", \"start\": 98.375, \"end\": 98.795, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"課\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 98.795, \"end\": 99.335, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"遇\", \"start\": 99.335, \"end\": 99.415, 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{\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 638.6, \"end\": 638.7, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 638.7, \"end\": 639.18, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 639.18, \"end\": 639.3, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 639.3, \"end\": 639.36, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 639.36, \"end\": 639.541, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 639.541, \"end\": 639.701, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 639.701, \"end\": 639.721, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,973 --> 00:00:13,054\n謝謝主席,麻煩主席幫我邀請次長。\n\n2\n00:00:18,889 --> 00:00:47,786\n羅廷瑋好好次長好次長我想這個普特融合啊融合教育我想這就是讓這個特殊生跟我們在正常化的一個環境之下呢學習成長透過團體生活教學向長兩方呢不管是正常的學生還有我們特殊的孩子大家一起來努力讓互相包容學習那現場的一些案例我也要跟你報告因為我來自基層的很多老師自己的學校都會跟我們分享\n\n3\n00:00:48,386 --> 00:01:08,887\n有一個六年級的學生有中度的一個自閉狀況會不定時的發出聲音大叫也經常離開教室我想這是普特融合可能遇到也常態化的一個狀況那從一年級開始到五年級都有教助員隨班輔助所以跑出教室的時候老師就不會擔心可以繼續上課那現場呢\n\n4\n00:01:10,208 --> 00:01:37,535\n同學的一個狀況也比較容易安撫但這個已經是這個融合制度下最好的一個結果可是去年9月新學期的開始他的教助員被取消也就是教育局因經費不足為由不再補助這一個時薪此後他們班的上課情形只能用慘不忍睹來形容對不起以上這些都是現場第一線的老師跟我分享的\n\n5\n00:01:38,115 --> 00:02:04,122\n那授課教師遇到不穩定的時候要停下課來處理這一個狀況那當這個孩子跑出教室老師也沒辦法跟出去那就打電話請學校的學務處、輔導室幫忙找人這段時間我想老師到底要走出去還是不走出去那這段時間其實暗藏了很多危機你不知道這個孩子他會發生什麼樣的狀況\n\n6\n00:02:05,362 --> 00:02:23,481\n那我想由於情況一直失控該生家長只好自費請人當教助員難道我們的融合教育的意思就是讓特教機構的人才減輕負擔以後把問題丟給普通的教師又把教助員抽走再把問題丟給家長嗎我想\n\n7\n00:02:26,004 --> 00:02:42,818\n關於我這樣子描述現場的一個狀況用三言兩語把它簡單的解釋完但是可以想像說這個班上的同學和老師每天都在這一個隨時會爆發的狀況當中等待這樣子的一個時機點出現那我想\n\n8\n00:02:44,680 --> 00:03:09,914\n這已經算是比較溫和的一個案例了他只是亂跑亂叫而已那還有的會打罵同學打罵老師干擾上課的一個情形都有可能我想這就是我們一直在講的所以教助委員希望說4年增加1600位但是有這樣子的一個零星案件說這個費用不足那也一直期盼著費用趕緊到位這部分市長您有掌握這些狀況嗎\n\n9\n00:03:11,290 --> 00:03:38,952\n跟委員報告一下那剛剛剛才提到就是說針對那個生技障礙學生申請這個特教助理員的這個時數的部分我們核准的比例大概78%是那所以雖然不是全部都能夠滿足生技障礙學生的需求但是以目前來講還沒有增加經費之前大概有將近八成的部分是可以得到這樣子的一個協助所以剛剛委員提到的這個臺中市的部分是這樣子的個案的部分的話可能我們要進一步瞭解啦\n\n10\n00:03:39,192 --> 00:03:39,232\n主席\n\n11\n00:03:57,338 --> 00:03:57,538\n委員會主席\n\n12\n00:04:12,295 --> 00:04:12,475\n委員會主席\n\n13\n00:04:36,269 --> 00:04:57,537\n所以針對月薪制的專政助理員﹐中度以上﹐重度以上的﹐還有針對這個時薪的﹐這個這個中度以下的這個身心障礙提供這個那個時薪制的這樣子的一個特效助理員的這個服務我相信在經會的依註﹐以及我們的重視之下應該會比以前對身心障礙的學生照顧的會更好\n\n14\n00:04:58,217 --> 00:05:16,071\n市長署長也在旁邊我想在你們的一個政策之下這個未來的展望是可預期是往好的方向可是每分每秒都在流逝這一分這一秒可能狀況就發生了我還是覺得在這四年內補足這些名額之前有所謂的短\n\n15\n00:05:16,491 --> 00:05:41,704\n中長期在部署這四年想辦法把這些零星狀況甚至是我們遇到了這一次的臺北市發生的這個個案我們有沒有一個SOP我相信這一次臺北市的個案應該有討論到可能老師不太知道現場的狀況要不要交接我們在這一次的狀況當中有沒有去探討各校的SOP訂定把每一次的事件\n\n16\n00:05:42,244 --> 00:05:42,644\n主席羅廷瑋\n\n17\n00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:26,318\n我們也希望這個發生之後也能夠做一些檢討做得更精緻就以台北市的這個個案的部分針對這種特教學生的情緒的處理的部分的話尤其包含這次個案裡面的老師是一個代理的教師代理教師他說他不太知情嗎起初有一些言語的衝突但後續老師是沒有跟他肢體上的衝突所以是我個人認為其實老師也跟我講\n\n18\n00:06:26,978 --> 00:06:50,312\n這一次的案例可以當作是教材讓更多普特融合的過程當中我們可以探討所以我希望每一次的危機每一次的事件能夠成為教材讓學校方作為一個SOP的訂定所以我希望我們這邊次長應該要來做一個案件的檢討之後告訴每一個學校去佈建這樣子的SOP可以嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:50,592 --> 00:06:53,673\n當然我也希望我們現在在增加教助員的一個情況當中我還是希望說善用流浪教師補足\n\n20\n00:07:12,182 --> 00:07:35,051\n教育能力的一個缺口這是我們最期待的流浪教師這件事情這一個名詞已經不是現在才聽到了長期大家都很關注這件事情那普特融合的情況之下能不能善用流浪教師讓他們有在這個機會來在我們的教師環境有機會來付出我想這個部分也希望您能夠對於這個方面\n\n21\n00:07:36,491 --> 00:07:59,793\n有所了解、有所一個態度是不是能夠往這個方向呢?是,跟委員報告一下,針對我們叫儲備教師目前具有特教類課的儲備教師目前還有比較活躍的,大概還有3800人每一年我們平均合法教師證書大概是800張出任老師的部分大概近三年每一年平均大概是500人\n\n22\n00:08:00,713 --> 00:08:20,135\n這個部分我們也會持續的針對專政教師的徵聘以及聘主這個專政教師的部分會朝這個部分來督導跟縣市政府來做一個妥善的處理我想這個也是為他們發聲也希望在這個融合教育的情況之下有更多更多的契機可以更加的融洽\n\n23\n00:08:21,956 --> 00:08:39,305\n讓每一個家長都能夠安心我想因為我的稿子其實準備滿多議題要跟您做一個探討但是我想因為今天我們整體的時間有限關於還有我們的這個公托的一個部分其實大家都很關注剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關注這些議題\n\n24\n00:08:40,605 --> 00:08:53,858\n其實我自己本身三個孩子我對於公托公幼這個部分我們都非常的關注我想利益良善第三期的草案有這樣子的一個規劃我們當然都希望重罰但是呢要不要連帶罰\n\n25\n00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:24,928\n所以這個是可能民意有這些的傾向我們也希望能夠從嚴來看待但是我們畢竟還是要知道就剛剛署長有回應到所謂的如果真的連帶法造成了一個孩子整個需要安置就我目前看到的狀況實際在擔任議員的時候台中市有某一些被停止以後他要安置其實真的並不是非常的方便因為光要找安置的新的公幼公托\n\n26\n00:09:25,428 --> 00:09:52,216\n這個部分呢是非常的難找尋那再來就要轉接到施託施幼那施託施幼又有一些就是距離上的問題你也知道就是我們如果能夠就近讓孩子能夠安置上課的話對於家長的這個上下班的途中是最方便的一個來做考量所以我並不覺得安置這件事情很好做那安置是我們的大方向是我們的一定要做的可是我們還是希望\n\n27\n00:09:52,756 --> 00:09:52,896\n主席\n\n28\n00:10:09,893 --> 00:10:10,433\n這部分您可以回答嗎?\n\n29\n00:10:23,943 --> 00:10:39,721\n是的,我想這個謝謝委員那我剛跟我們彭署長剛才提到3月底之前,針對有關這個包含幼兒園退場以及這個新制的部分我們會對外來做一個公佈,過程當中我們也會跟相關團體來做好這個溝通的一個工作,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10973\t13054\t謝謝主席,麻煩主席幫我邀請次長。\n18889\t47786\t羅廷瑋好好 次長好次長我想這個普特融合啊融合教育我想這就是讓這個特殊生跟我們在正常化的一個環境之下呢學習成長透過團體生活教學向長兩方呢不管是正常的學生還有我們特殊的孩子大家一起來努力讓互相包容學習那現場的一些案例我也要跟你報告因為我來自基層的很多老師自己的學校都會跟我們分享\n48386\t68887\t有一個六年級的學生有中度的一個自閉狀況會不定時的發出聲音大叫也經常離開教室我想這是普特融合可能遇到也常態化的一個狀況那從一年級開始到五年級都有教助員隨班輔助所以跑出教室的時候老師就不會擔心可以繼續上課那現場呢\n70208\t97535\t同學的一個狀況也比較容易安撫但這個已經是這個融合制度下最好的一個結果可是去年9月新學期的開始他的教助員被取消也就是教育局因經費不足為由不再補助這一個時薪此後他們班的上課情形只能用慘不忍睹來形容對不起以上這些都是現場第一線的老師跟我分享的\n98115\t124122\t那授課教師遇到不穩定的時候要停下課來處理這一個狀況那當這個孩子跑出教室老師也沒辦法跟出去那就打電話請學校的學務處、輔導室幫忙找人這段時間我想老師到底要走出去還是不走出去那這段時間其實暗藏了很多危機你不知道這個孩子他會發生什麼樣的狀況\n125362\t143481\t那我想由於情況一直失控該生家長只好自費請人當教助員難道我們的融合教育的意思就是讓特教機構的人才減輕負擔以後把問題丟給普通的教師又把教助員抽走再把問題丟給家長嗎我想\n146004\t162818\t關於我這樣子描述現場的一個狀況用三言兩語把它簡單的解釋完但是可以想像說這個班上的同學和老師每天都在這一個隨時會爆發的狀況當中等待這樣子的一個時機點出現那我想\n164680\t189914\t這已經算是比較溫和的一個案例了他只是亂跑亂叫而已那還有的會打罵同學打罵老師干擾上課的一個情形都有可能我想這就是我們一直在講的所以教助委員希望說4年增加1600位但是有這樣子的一個零星案件說這個費用不足那也一直期盼著費用趕緊到位這部分市長您有掌握這些狀況嗎\n191290\t218952\t跟委員報告一下那剛剛剛才提到就是說針對那個生技障礙學生申請這個特教助理員的這個時數的部分我們核准的比例大概78%是那所以雖然不是全部都能夠滿足生技障礙學生的需求但是以目前來講還沒有增加經費之前大概有將近八成的部分是可以得到這樣子的一個協助所以剛剛委員提到的這個臺中市的部分是這樣子的個案的部分的話可能我們要進一步瞭解啦\n219192\t219232\t主席\n237338\t237538\t委員會主席\n252295\t252475\t委員會主席\n276269\t297537\t所以針對月薪制的專政助理員﹐中度以上﹐重度以上的﹐還有針對這個時薪的﹐這個這個中度以下的這個身心障礙提供這個那個時薪制的這樣子的一個特效助理員的這個服務我相信在經會的依註﹐以及我們的重視之下應該會比以前對身心障礙的學生照顧的會更好\n298217\t316071\t市長 署長也在旁邊我想在你們的一個政策之下這個未來的展望是可預期是往好的方向可是每分每秒都在流逝這一分這一秒可能狀況就發生了我還是覺得在這四年內補足這些名額之前有所謂的短\n316491\t341704\t中長期在部署這四年想辦法把這些零星狀況甚至是我們遇到了這一次的臺北市發生的這個個案我們有沒有一個SOP我相信這一次臺北市的個案應該有討論到可能老師不太知道現場的狀況要不要交接我們在這一次的狀況當中有沒有去探討各校的SOP訂定把每一次的事件\n342244\t342644\t主席羅廷瑋\n359560\t386318\t我們也希望這個發生之後 也能夠做一些檢討 做得更精緻就以台北市的這個個案的部分 針對這種特教學生的情緒的處理的部分的話尤其包含這次個案裡面的老師是一個代理的教師代理教師 他說他不太知情嗎起初有一些言語的衝突 但後續老師是沒有跟他肢體上的衝突所以是我個人認為 其實老師也跟我講\n386978\t410312\t這一次的案例可以當作是教材讓更多普特融合的過程當中我們可以探討所以我希望每一次的危機每一次的事件能夠成為教材讓學校方作為一個SOP的訂定所以我希望我們這邊次長應該要來做一個案件的檢討之後告訴每一個學校去佈建這樣子的SOP可以嗎?\n410592\t413673\t當然我也希望我們現在在增加教助員的一個情況當中我還是希望說善用流浪教師補足\n432182\t455051\t教育能力的一個缺口這是我們最期待的流浪教師這件事情這一個名詞已經不是現在才聽到了長期大家都很關注這件事情那普特融合的情況之下能不能善用流浪教師讓他們有在這個機會來在我們的教師環境有機會來付出我想這個部分也希望您能夠對於這個方面\n456491\t479793\t有所了解、有所一個態度是不是能夠往這個方向呢?是,跟委員報告一下,針對我們叫儲備教師目前具有特教類課的儲備教師目前還有比較活躍的,大概還有3800人每一年我們平均合法教師證書大概是800張出任老師的部分大概近三年每一年平均大概是500人\n480713\t500135\t這個部分我們也會持續的針對專政教師的徵聘以及聘主這個專政教師的部分會朝這個部分來督導跟縣市政府來做一個妥善的處理我想這個也是為他們發聲也希望在這個融合教育的情況之下有更多更多的契機可以更加的融洽\n501956\t519305\t讓每一個家長都能夠安心我想因為我的稿子其實準備滿多議題要跟您做一個探討但是我想因為今天我們整體的時間有限關於還有我們的這個公托的一個部分其實大家都很關注剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關注這些議題\n520605\t533858\t其實我自己本身三個孩子我對於公托公幼這個部分我們都非常的關注我想利益良善第三期的草案有這樣子的一個規劃我們當然都希望重罰但是呢要不要連帶罰\n535840\t564928\t所以這個是可能民意有這些的傾向我們也希望能夠從嚴來看待但是我們畢竟還是要知道就剛剛署長有回應到所謂的如果真的連帶法造成了一個孩子整個需要安置就我目前看到的狀況實際在擔任議員的時候台中市有某一些被停止以後他要安置其實真的並不是非常的方便因為光要找安置的新的公幼公托\n565428\t592216\t這個部分呢是非常的難找尋那再來就要轉接到施託施幼那施託施幼又有一些就是距離上的問題你也知道就是我們如果能夠就近讓孩子能夠安置上課的話對於家長的這個上下班的途中是最方便的一個來做考量所以我並不覺得安置這件事情很好做那安置是我們的大方向是我們的一定要做的可是我們還是希望\n592756\t592896\t主席\n609893\t610433\t這部分您可以回答嗎?\n623943\t639721\t是的,我想這個謝謝委員那我剛跟我們彭署長剛才提到3月底之前,針對有關這個包含幼兒園退場以及這個新制的部分我們會對外來做一個公佈,過程當中我們也會跟相關團體來做好這個溝通的一個工作,謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,麻煩主席幫我邀請次長。\n羅廷瑋好好 次長好次長我想這個普特融合啊融合教育我想這就是讓這個特殊生跟我們在正常化的一個環境之下呢學習成長透過團體生活教學向長兩方呢不管是正常的學生還有我們特殊的孩子大家一起來努力讓互相包容學習那現場的一些案例我也要跟你報告因為我來自基層的很多老師自己的學校都會跟我們分享\n有一個六年級的學生有中度的一個自閉狀況會不定時的發出聲音大叫也經常離開教室我想這是普特融合可能遇到也常態化的一個狀況那從一年級開始到五年級都有教助員隨班輔助所以跑出教室的時候老師就不會擔心可以繼續上課那現場呢\n同學的一個狀況也比較容易安撫但這個已經是這個融合制度下最好的一個結果可是去年9月新學期的開始他的教助員被取消也就是教育局因經費不足為由不再補助這一個時薪此後他們班的上課情形只能用慘不忍睹來形容對不起以上這些都是現場第一線的老師跟我分享的\n那授課教師遇到不穩定的時候要停下課來處理這一個狀況那當這個孩子跑出教室老師也沒辦法跟出去那就打電話請學校的學務處、輔導室幫忙找人這段時間我想老師到底要走出去還是不走出去那這段時間其實暗藏了很多危機你不知道這個孩子他會發生什麼樣的狀況\n那我想由於情況一直失控該生家長只好自費請人當教助員難道我們的融合教育的意思就是讓特教機構的人才減輕負擔以後把問題丟給普通的教師又把教助員抽走再把問題丟給家長嗎我想\n關於我這樣子描述現場的一個狀況用三言兩語把它簡單的解釋完但是可以想像說這個班上的同學和老師每天都在這一個隨時會爆發的狀況當中等待這樣子的一個時機點出現那我想\n這已經算是比較溫和的一個案例了他只是亂跑亂叫而已那還有的會打罵同學打罵老師干擾上課的一個情形都有可能我想這就是我們一直在講的所以教助委員希望說4年增加1600位但是有這樣子的一個零星案件說這個費用不足那也一直期盼著費用趕緊到位這部分市長您有掌握這些狀況嗎\n跟委員報告一下那剛剛剛才提到就是說針對那個生技障礙學生申請這個特教助理員的這個時數的部分我們核准的比例大概78%是那所以雖然不是全部都能夠滿足生技障礙學生的需求但是以目前來講還沒有增加經費之前大概有將近八成的部分是可以得到這樣子的一個協助所以剛剛委員提到的這個臺中市的部分是這樣子的個案的部分的話可能我們要進一步瞭解啦\n主席\n委員會主席\n委員會主席\n所以針對月薪制的專政助理員﹐中度以上﹐重度以上的﹐還有針對這個時薪的﹐這個這個中度以下的這個身心障礙提供這個那個時薪制的這樣子的一個特效助理員的這個服務我相信在經會的依註﹐以及我們的重視之下應該會比以前對身心障礙的學生照顧的會更好\n市長 署長也在旁邊我想在你們的一個政策之下這個未來的展望是可預期是往好的方向可是每分每秒都在流逝這一分這一秒可能狀況就發生了我還是覺得在這四年內補足這些名額之前有所謂的短\n中長期在部署這四年想辦法把這些零星狀況甚至是我們遇到了這一次的臺北市發生的這個個案我們有沒有一個SOP我相信這一次臺北市的個案應該有討論到可能老師不太知道現場的狀況要不要交接我們在這一次的狀況當中有沒有去探討各校的SOP訂定把每一次的事件\n主席羅廷瑋\n我們也希望這個發生之後 也能夠做一些檢討 做得更精緻就以台北市的這個個案的部分 針對這種特教學生的情緒的處理的部分的話尤其包含這次個案裡面的老師是一個代理的教師代理教師 他說他不太知情嗎起初有一些言語的衝突 但後續老師是沒有跟他肢體上的衝突所以是我個人認為 其實老師也跟我講\n這一次的案例可以當作是教材讓更多普特融合的過程當中我們可以探討所以我希望每一次的危機每一次的事件能夠成為教材讓學校方作為一個SOP的訂定所以我希望我們這邊次長應該要來做一個案件的檢討之後告訴每一個學校去佈建這樣子的SOP可以嗎?\n當然我也希望我們現在在增加教助員的一個情況當中我還是希望說善用流浪教師補足\n教育能力的一個缺口這是我們最期待的流浪教師這件事情這一個名詞已經不是現在才聽到了長期大家都很關注這件事情那普特融合的情況之下能不能善用流浪教師讓他們有在這個機會來在我們的教師環境有機會來付出我想這個部分也希望您能夠對於這個方面\n有所了解、有所一個態度是不是能夠往這個方向呢?是,跟委員報告一下,針對我們叫儲備教師目前具有特教類課的儲備教師目前還有比較活躍的,大概還有3800人每一年我們平均合法教師證書大概是800張出任老師的部分大概近三年每一年平均大概是500人\n這個部分我們也會持續的針對專政教師的徵聘以及聘主這個專政教師的部分會朝這個部分來督導跟縣市政府來做一個妥善的處理我想這個也是為他們發聲也希望在這個融合教育的情況之下有更多更多的契機可以更加的融洽\n讓每一個家長都能夠安心我想因為我的稿子其實準備滿多議題要跟您做一個探討但是我想因為今天我們整體的時間有限關於還有我們的這個公托的一個部分其實大家都很關注剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關注這些議題\n其實我自己本身三個孩子我對於公托公幼這個部分我們都非常的關注我想利益良善第三期的草案有這樣子的一個規劃我們當然都希望重罰但是呢要不要連帶罰\n所以這個是可能民意有這些的傾向我們也希望能夠從嚴來看待但是我們畢竟還是要知道就剛剛署長有回應到所謂的如果真的連帶法造成了一個孩子整個需要安置就我目前看到的狀況實際在擔任議員的時候台中市有某一些被停止以後他要安置其實真的並不是非常的方便因為光要找安置的新的公幼公托\n這個部分呢是非常的難找尋那再來就要轉接到施託施幼那施託施幼又有一些就是距離上的問題你也知道就是我們如果能夠就近讓孩子能夠安置上課的話對於家長的這個上下班的途中是最方便的一個來做考量所以我並不覺得安置這件事情很好做那安置是我們的大方向是我們的一定要做的可是我們還是希望\n主席\n這部分您可以回答嗎?\n是的,我想這個謝謝委員那我剛跟我們彭署長剛才提到3月底之前,針對有關這個包含幼兒園退場以及這個新制的部分我們會對外來做一個公佈,過程當中我們也會跟相關團體來做好這個溝通的一個工作,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.973 --> 00:13.054\n謝謝主席,麻煩主席幫我邀請次長。\n\n00:18.889 --> 00:47.786\n羅廷瑋好好次長好次長我想這個普特融合啊融合教育我想這就是讓這個特殊生跟我們在正常化的一個環境之下呢學習成長透過團體生活教學向長兩方呢不管是正常的學生還有我們特殊的孩子大家一起來努力讓互相包容學習那現場的一些案例我也要跟你報告因為我來自基層的很多老師自己的學校都會跟我們分享\n\n00:48.386 --> 01:08.887\n有一個六年級的學生有中度的一個自閉狀況會不定時的發出聲音大叫也經常離開教室我想這是普特融合可能遇到也常態化的一個狀況那從一年級開始到五年級都有教助員隨班輔助所以跑出教室的時候老師就不會擔心可以繼續上課那現場呢\n\n01:10.208 --> 01:37.535\n同學的一個狀況也比較容易安撫但這個已經是這個融合制度下最好的一個結果可是去年9月新學期的開始他的教助員被取消也就是教育局因經費不足為由不再補助這一個時薪此後他們班的上課情形只能用慘不忍睹來形容對不起以上這些都是現場第一線的老師跟我分享的\n\n01:38.115 --> 02:04.122\n那授課教師遇到不穩定的時候要停下課來處理這一個狀況那當這個孩子跑出教室老師也沒辦法跟出去那就打電話請學校的學務處、輔導室幫忙找人這段時間我想老師到底要走出去還是不走出去那這段時間其實暗藏了很多危機你不知道這個孩子他會發生什麼樣的狀況\n\n02:05.362 --> 02:23.481\n那我想由於情況一直失控該生家長只好自費請人當教助員難道我們的融合教育的意思就是讓特教機構的人才減輕負擔以後把問題丟給普通的教師又把教助員抽走再把問題丟給家長嗎我想\n\n02:26.004 --> 02:42.818\n關於我這樣子描述現場的一個狀況用三言兩語把它簡單的解釋完但是可以想像說這個班上的同學和老師每天都在這一個隨時會爆發的狀況當中等待這樣子的一個時機點出現那我想\n\n02:44.680 --> 03:09.914\n這已經算是比較溫和的一個案例了他只是亂跑亂叫而已那還有的會打罵同學打罵老師干擾上課的一個情形都有可能我想這就是我們一直在講的所以教助委員希望說4年增加1600位但是有這樣子的一個零星案件說這個費用不足那也一直期盼著費用趕緊到位這部分市長您有掌握這些狀況嗎\n\n03:11.290 --> 03:38.952\n跟委員報告一下那剛剛剛才提到就是說針對那個生技障礙學生申請這個特教助理員的這個時數的部分我們核准的比例大概78%是那所以雖然不是全部都能夠滿足生技障礙學生的需求但是以目前來講還沒有增加經費之前大概有將近八成的部分是可以得到這樣子的一個協助所以剛剛委員提到的這個臺中市的部分是這樣子的個案的部分的話可能我們要進一步瞭解啦\n\n03:39.192 --> 03:39.232\n主席\n\n03:57.338 --> 03:57.538\n委員會主席\n\n04:12.295 --> 04:12.475\n委員會主席\n\n04:36.269 --> 04:57.537\n所以針對月薪制的專政助理員﹐中度以上﹐重度以上的﹐還有針對這個時薪的﹐這個這個中度以下的這個身心障礙提供這個那個時薪制的這樣子的一個特效助理員的這個服務我相信在經會的依註﹐以及我們的重視之下應該會比以前對身心障礙的學生照顧的會更好\n\n04:58.217 --> 05:16.071\n市長署長也在旁邊我想在你們的一個政策之下這個未來的展望是可預期是往好的方向可是每分每秒都在流逝這一分這一秒可能狀況就發生了我還是覺得在這四年內補足這些名額之前有所謂的短\n\n05:16.491 --> 05:41.704\n中長期在部署這四年想辦法把這些零星狀況甚至是我們遇到了這一次的臺北市發生的這個個案我們有沒有一個SOP我相信這一次臺北市的個案應該有討論到可能老師不太知道現場的狀況要不要交接我們在這一次的狀況當中有沒有去探討各校的SOP訂定把每一次的事件\n\n05:42.244 --> 05:42.644\n主席羅廷瑋\n\n05:59.560 --> 06:26.318\n我們也希望這個發生之後也能夠做一些檢討做得更精緻就以台北市的這個個案的部分針對這種特教學生的情緒的處理的部分的話尤其包含這次個案裡面的老師是一個代理的教師代理教師他說他不太知情嗎起初有一些言語的衝突但後續老師是沒有跟他肢體上的衝突所以是我個人認為其實老師也跟我講\n\n06:26.978 --> 06:50.312\n這一次的案例可以當作是教材讓更多普特融合的過程當中我們可以探討所以我希望每一次的危機每一次的事件能夠成為教材讓學校方作為一個SOP的訂定所以我希望我們這邊次長應該要來做一個案件的檢討之後告訴每一個學校去佈建這樣子的SOP可以嗎?\n\n06:50.592 --> 06:53.673\n當然我也希望我們現在在增加教助員的一個情況當中我還是希望說善用流浪教師補足\n\n07:12.182 --> 07:35.051\n教育能力的一個缺口這是我們最期待的流浪教師這件事情這一個名詞已經不是現在才聽到了長期大家都很關注這件事情那普特融合的情況之下能不能善用流浪教師讓他們有在這個機會來在我們的教師環境有機會來付出我想這個部分也希望您能夠對於這個方面\n\n07:36.491 --> 07:59.793\n有所了解、有所一個態度是不是能夠往這個方向呢?是,跟委員報告一下,針對我們叫儲備教師目前具有特教類課的儲備教師目前還有比較活躍的,大概還有3800人每一年我們平均合法教師證書大概是800張出任老師的部分大概近三年每一年平均大概是500人\n\n08:00.713 --> 08:20.135\n這個部分我們也會持續的針對專政教師的徵聘以及聘主這個專政教師的部分會朝這個部分來督導跟縣市政府來做一個妥善的處理我想這個也是為他們發聲也希望在這個融合教育的情況之下有更多更多的契機可以更加的融洽\n\n08:21.956 --> 08:39.305\n讓每一個家長都能夠安心我想因為我的稿子其實準備滿多議題要跟您做一個探討但是我想因為今天我們整體的時間有限關於還有我們的這個公托的一個部分其實大家都很關注剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關注這些議題\n\n08:40.605 --> 08:53.858\n其實我自己本身三個孩子我對於公托公幼這個部分我們都非常的關注我想利益良善第三期的草案有這樣子的一個規劃我們當然都希望重罰但是呢要不要連帶罰\n\n08:55.840 --> 09:24.928\n所以這個是可能民意有這些的傾向我們也希望能夠從嚴來看待但是我們畢竟還是要知道就剛剛署長有回應到所謂的如果真的連帶法造成了一個孩子整個需要安置就我目前看到的狀況實際在擔任議員的時候台中市有某一些被停止以後他要安置其實真的並不是非常的方便因為光要找安置的新的公幼公托\n\n09:25.428 --> 09:52.216\n這個部分呢是非常的難找尋那再來就要轉接到施託施幼那施託施幼又有一些就是距離上的問題你也知道就是我們如果能夠就近讓孩子能夠安置上課的話對於家長的這個上下班的途中是最方便的一個來做考量所以我並不覺得安置這件事情很好做那安置是我們的大方向是我們的一定要做的可是我們還是希望\n\n09:52.756 --> 09:52.896\n主席\n\n10:09.893 --> 10:10.433\n這部分您可以回答嗎?\n\n10:23.943 --> 10:39.721\n是的,我想這個謝謝委員那我剛跟我們彭署長剛才提到3月底之前,針對有關這個包含幼兒園退場以及這個新制的部分我們會對外來做一個公佈,過程當中我們也會跟相關團體來做好這個溝通的一個工作,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.973,"end":13.054,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩主席幫我邀請次長。"},{"start":18.889,"end":47.786,"text":"羅廷瑋好好 次長好次長我想這個普特融合啊融合教育我想這就是讓這個特殊生跟我們在正常化的一個環境之下呢學習成長透過團體生活教學向長兩方呢不管是正常的學生還有我們特殊的孩子大家一起來努力讓互相包容學習那現場的一些案例我也要跟你報告因為我來自基層的很多老師自己的學校都會跟我們分享"},{"start":48.386,"end":68.887,"text":"有一個六年級的學生有中度的一個自閉狀況會不定時的發出聲音大叫也經常離開教室我想這是普特融合可能遇到也常態化的一個狀況那從一年級開始到五年級都有教助員隨班輔助所以跑出教室的時候老師就不會擔心可以繼續上課那現場呢"},{"start":70.208,"end":97.535,"text":"同學的一個狀況也比較容易安撫但這個已經是這個融合制度下最好的一個結果可是去年9月新學期的開始他的教助員被取消也就是教育局因經費不足為由不再補助這一個時薪此後他們班的上課情形只能用慘不忍睹來形容對不起以上這些都是現場第一線的老師跟我分享的"},{"start":98.115,"end":124.122,"text":"那授課教師遇到不穩定的時候要停下課來處理這一個狀況那當這個孩子跑出教室老師也沒辦法跟出去那就打電話請學校的學務處、輔導室幫忙找人這段時間我想老師到底要走出去還是不走出去那這段時間其實暗藏了很多危機你不知道這個孩子他會發生什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":125.362,"end":143.481,"text":"那我想由於情況一直失控該生家長只好自費請人當教助員難道我們的融合教育的意思就是讓特教機構的人才減輕負擔以後把問題丟給普通的教師又把教助員抽走再把問題丟給家長嗎我想"},{"start":146.004,"end":162.818,"text":"關於我這樣子描述現場的一個狀況用三言兩語把它簡單的解釋完但是可以想像說這個班上的同學和老師每天都在這一個隨時會爆發的狀況當中等待這樣子的一個時機點出現那我想"},{"start":164.68,"end":189.914,"text":"這已經算是比較溫和的一個案例了他只是亂跑亂叫而已那還有的會打罵同學打罵老師干擾上課的一個情形都有可能我想這就是我們一直在講的所以教助委員希望說4年增加1600位但是有這樣子的一個零星案件說這個費用不足那也一直期盼著費用趕緊到位這部分市長您有掌握這些狀況嗎"},{"start":191.29,"end":218.952,"text":"跟委員報告一下那剛剛剛才提到就是說針對那個生技障礙學生申請這個特教助理員的這個時數的部分我們核准的比例大概78%是那所以雖然不是全部都能夠滿足生技障礙學生的需求但是以目前來講還沒有增加經費之前大概有將近八成的部分是可以得到這樣子的一個協助所以剛剛委員提到的這個臺中市的部分是這樣子的個案的部分的話可能我們要進一步瞭解啦"},{"start":219.192,"end":219.232,"text":"主席"},{"start":237.338,"end":237.538,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":252.295,"end":252.475,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":276.269,"end":297.537,"text":"所以針對月薪制的專政助理員﹐中度以上﹐重度以上的﹐還有針對這個時薪的﹐這個這個中度以下的這個身心障礙提供這個那個時薪制的這樣子的一個特效助理員的這個服務我相信在經會的依註﹐以及我們的重視之下應該會比以前對身心障礙的學生照顧的會更好"},{"start":298.217,"end":316.071,"text":"市長 署長也在旁邊我想在你們的一個政策之下這個未來的展望是可預期是往好的方向可是每分每秒都在流逝這一分這一秒可能狀況就發生了我還是覺得在這四年內補足這些名額之前有所謂的短"},{"start":316.491,"end":341.704,"text":"中長期在部署這四年想辦法把這些零星狀況甚至是我們遇到了這一次的臺北市發生的這個個案我們有沒有一個SOP我相信這一次臺北市的個案應該有討論到可能老師不太知道現場的狀況要不要交接我們在這一次的狀況當中有沒有去探討各校的SOP訂定把每一次的事件"},{"start":342.244,"end":342.644,"text":"主席羅廷瑋"},{"start":359.56,"end":386.318,"text":"我們也希望這個發生之後 也能夠做一些檢討 做得更精緻就以台北市的這個個案的部分 針對這種特教學生的情緒的處理的部分的話尤其包含這次個案裡面的老師是一個代理的教師代理教師 他說他不太知情嗎起初有一些言語的衝突 但後續老師是沒有跟他肢體上的衝突所以是我個人認為 其實老師也跟我講"},{"start":386.978,"end":410.312,"text":"這一次的案例可以當作是教材讓更多普特融合的過程當中我們可以探討所以我希望每一次的危機每一次的事件能夠成為教材讓學校方作為一個SOP的訂定所以我希望我們這邊次長應該要來做一個案件的檢討之後告訴每一個學校去佈建這樣子的SOP可以嗎?"},{"start":410.592,"end":413.673,"text":"當然我也希望我們現在在增加教助員的一個情況當中我還是希望說善用流浪教師補足"},{"start":432.182,"end":455.051,"text":"教育能力的一個缺口這是我們最期待的流浪教師這件事情這一個名詞已經不是現在才聽到了長期大家都很關注這件事情那普特融合的情況之下能不能善用流浪教師讓他們有在這個機會來在我們的教師環境有機會來付出我想這個部分也希望您能夠對於這個方面"},{"start":456.491,"end":479.793,"text":"有所了解、有所一個態度是不是能夠往這個方向呢?是,跟委員報告一下,針對我們叫儲備教師目前具有特教類課的儲備教師目前還有比較活躍的,大概還有3800人每一年我們平均合法教師證書大概是800張出任老師的部分大概近三年每一年平均大概是500人"},{"start":480.713,"end":500.135,"text":"這個部分我們也會持續的針對專政教師的徵聘以及聘主這個專政教師的部分會朝這個部分來督導跟縣市政府來做一個妥善的處理我想這個也是為他們發聲也希望在這個融合教育的情況之下有更多更多的契機可以更加的融洽"},{"start":501.956,"end":519.305,"text":"讓每一個家長都能夠安心我想因為我的稿子其實準備滿多議題要跟您做一個探討但是我想因為今天我們整體的時間有限關於還有我們的這個公托的一個部分其實大家都很關注剛剛也聽到其他的委員在關注這些議題"},{"start":520.605,"end":533.858,"text":"其實我自己本身三個孩子我對於公托公幼這個部分我們都非常的關注我想利益良善第三期的草案有這樣子的一個規劃我們當然都希望重罰但是呢要不要連帶罰"},{"start":535.84,"end":564.928,"text":"所以這個是可能民意有這些的傾向我們也希望能夠從嚴來看待但是我們畢竟還是要知道就剛剛署長有回應到所謂的如果真的連帶法造成了一個孩子整個需要安置就我目前看到的狀況實際在擔任議員的時候台中市有某一些被停止以後他要安置其實真的並不是非常的方便因為光要找安置的新的公幼公托"},{"start":565.428,"end":592.216,"text":"這個部分呢是非常的難找尋那再來就要轉接到施託施幼那施託施幼又有一些就是距離上的問題你也知道就是我們如果能夠就近讓孩子能夠安置上課的話對於家長的這個上下班的途中是最方便的一個來做考量所以我並不覺得安置這件事情很好做那安置是我們的大方向是我們的一定要做的可是我們還是希望"},{"start":592.756,"end":592.896,"text":"主席"},{"start":609.893,"end":610.433,"text":"這部分您可以回答嗎?"},{"start":623.943,"end":639.721,"text":"是的,我想這個謝謝委員那我剛跟我們彭署長剛才提到3月底之前,針對有關這個包含幼兒園退場以及這個新制的部分我們會對外來做一個公佈,過程當中我們也會跟相關團體來做好這個溝通的一個工作,謝謝"}]}}}}