{"id":150243,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150243","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052d28fe3addf1a2564469dd78c507e1b3ff8ba9b0039caa7a61adba1fbe0402d325ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"11:37:34 - 11:45:26","影片長度":"00:07:52","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「加速推動再生能源對國土環境之影響及環境影響評估認定標準修訂進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-7"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":472,"end_time":"2024-03-21T11:45:26+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T11:37:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":792,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（11時37分）謝謝主席，請環境部部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["薛部長富盛：陳委員好。"],["陳委員秀寳：部長早，今天本席專程到衛環委員會來質詢，要跟部長討論一下公開說明會的理想與現實。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["陳委員秀寳：以下本席提出的問題，也請部長直接肯定地回答是或不是，對或不對，可以或不可以就好，因為我的質詢時間只有4分鐘。根據貴部的「環境影響評估公開說明會作業要點」，公開說明會的意旨就是在舉行公開說明會，是期望能夠落實資訊公開跟民眾參與的原則，然後貴部訂了所謂的議程，告訴開發單位只要照這個程序開完就可以，不管什麼狀況，只要你書面資料上來，我環境部就認定你有完成這個程序，有完成這個說明會。部長，在這邊本席要告訴你，這樣的程序就是在包庇跟縱容惡劣的開發商，透過粗暴的手段來走程序、走過水。","接下來請部長跟在場的各位看一下，3月14號晶鼎公司在彰濱開的說明會有多麼荒謬。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員秀寳：聲音出不來？沒關係，時間也有限，我們先把影片看完好了。"],["薛部長富盛：好，OK。事實上場面很混亂啦！"],["陳委員秀寳：部長，本席在這邊要告訴你，本席身上有9萬8,000票彰化第一選區鄉親的授權，本席也要問你說這樣子混亂的說明會……現在有聲音了，我們來看一下。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員秀寳：部長，您看一下，這樣子混亂、沒有程序、沒有秩序的說明會，你覺得是成立的嗎？現場這麼混亂、現場這麼吵雜，然後所謂的會議主持人，他直接就是唸完投影片，然後宣布我們成會，這樣子是合理的嗎？在這邊本席要很明白的告訴環境部，3月14號這個晶鼎說明會的瑕疵跟荒謬的部分，有民眾登記發言，程序中他不斷地表示他有登記，但是晶鼎公司一直都沒有讓登記第1位的這位人士發言，然後在這個過程之後，他把他該唸的唸完之後，他就宣布成會了。","第二個部分，晶鼎焚化爐在地方是重大的爭議案件，明明知道會有很多人來參與，但是他找了一個非常小的場地，然後事先還找了人把所有會場的位置都站滿，有不同聲音的人根本進不去。然後晶鼎公司就直接跟這些人說，你們不用進來，你們遞書面就好，還訕笑說場地就這麼小啊！你們進不來就不要進來啊！這個期間我的助理也不斷地提出程序問題跟秩序問題，那所謂的會議主席他也不處理，然後在一場混亂中、在叫囂之中、在整個吵雜的環境當中，他自顧自的把投影片唸完了，然後告訴大家我們程序走完了，我們成會了。這個部分我想部長你看了這個影片，你也能夠理解當時的場面是多麼地混亂。本席真的強烈質疑，這樣的會如果真的是成會，我們到底還有什麼程序正義可言？在這邊本席很認真的問一下，部長你覺得這樣的說明會它是成會的嗎？它是合理的嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：我們給晶鼎的截止日是3月31號，他必須3月31號把他開說明會的結論給我們……"],["陳委員秀寳：部長，你只要告訴我你覺得這個說明會它合理嗎？它成會嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：現場很混亂嘛！那有沒有按照剛剛你第一張講到的程序應該怎麼樣，包括有讓參與者發言的機會，不過你剛剛講沒有，沒有我們到時候就按照規定來……"],["陳委員秀寳：如果環境部你們的立場是認為說這樣就是可以成會的，那本席覺得環境部是失職的，你們也辜負了民眾的期待。"],["薛部長富盛：沒有，我們沒有做任何結論。"],["陳委員秀寳：那你現在能不能告訴我，晶鼎3月14號在彰濱服務中心開的這個所謂的說明會，在你們的判定來看它是不是成會？"],["薛部長富盛：因為我沒有現場參加，我還沒有接到他們的報告，所以我也不曉得他裡面是怎麼寫的，那我們就根據我們的法條跟他送來的資料……"],["陳委員秀寳：部長，因為主席也站起來，他已經多給我很多時間了，本席要再一次嚴正的告訴部長以及環境部相關的這些承辦，對於晶鼎的說明會，如果你們認為有這樣的瑕疵、有這樣的狀況，但你們還認為它是成會的，我覺得你們就是在告訴廠商……"],["薛部長富盛：陳委員，不要去預設立場啦！"],["陳委員秀寳：就是在告訴廠商，開發商就可以用這種粗暴的方式來闖關、來走程序、來走過水，你們環境部會認定它是沒有問題的。"],["薛部長富盛：我們會秉公處理、依法處理。"],["陳委員秀寳：這個部分，我希望環境部要審慎為之，不要幫這樣惡劣的廠商開方便之門。"],["薛部長富盛：是，瞭解。"],["陳委員秀寳：以上，謝謝主席。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝陳委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳秀寳委員。","因為我們衛環委員現在到了，我們先來處理臨時提案，總共5案，請一併宣讀。","一、","鑑於再生能源開發屢屢引發社會爭議，民間持續有再生能源環評認定標準加嚴等倡議，目前環境部也已預訂修正太陽光電環評認定標準，請環境部於後續修法草案研議過程，妥與目的事業主管機關、相關機關、NGO團體研商溝通，凝聚共識，以達成環境保護與綠能推動兼籌並顧的目標。","提案人：黃秀芳　　林月琴　　王正旭　　陳秀寳　　劉建國","二、","有鑑於《開發行為應實施環境影響評估細目及範圍認定標準》第29條規定設置太陽光電發電系統，位於「重要濕地」才需實施環境影響評估，使得近年來新設太陽能光電案場大多不符合前開標準所認定之重要濕地，因此免予環評而引起「開發行為是否對環境造成不良影響」爭議及討論。","為避免《開發行為應實施環境影響評估細目及範圍認定標準》修正完畢前，已獲得開發許可之太陽能光電案場因尚不在前開標準規範對象之列，造成其開發行為對我國環境產生實質重大影響，爰要求環境部於一個月內，盤點未來可能需進行環評之太陽能光電案場，研擬修法過渡期間之因應措施，向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：王育敏　　涂權吉　　陳昭姿","三、","為符合世界發展淨零碳排與能源自主的趨勢，發展再生能源已為各國重要基礎建設，其中考量減少太陽光電設置對環境之影響，我國除就地面型光電開發訂有土地開發及景觀設計規範，確認光電發展區位及案場規劃合宜，並於漁電共生推動環社檢核，針對漁電共生開發遭遇的環境、生態與社會議題，要求業者提出因應對策，以兼顧綠能、環境生態及社會的發展。","除漁電共生已有環社檢核進行把關外，針對其它地面設置類型的太陽光電也應考慮開發過程中對環境可能產生的影響，因此，請環境部會同經濟部檢討開發行為應實施環境敏感區位的用地變更型地面光電應辦理環評。","提案人：黃秀芳　　林月琴　　王正旭","四、","案由：現行《環境影響評估法》第5條以及其子法《開發行為應實施環境影響評估細目及範圍認定標準》第29條第7項規定，太陽光電僅有位於重要濕地才須進行環境影響評估。目前國家全力衝刺太陽光電，各地如火如荼設置太陽能光電板，除公告之不利耕作區、低地力地區、漁電共生外，還包括國有土地標租、台糖地等共已使用超過一萬公頃，全台魚塭、鹽田、農地與林地等等，處處可見大規模鋪設太陽能光電板的景觀，已對自然生態、動植物保育以及居住環境造成嚴重衝擊。光電爭議不斷，去（112）年3月已有13位環評委員連署，主張應修正認定標準，擴大光電環評範圍，然環境部至今方提出修正規劃，更稱須113年12月底才能修正發布，目前全國尚有上萬頃土地即將設置光電設施，若認定標準修正時程拖沓，恐使環境衝擊雪上加霜。環境部主掌全國環境保護與環境影響評估事務，對於能源建設與開發是否對自然生態與環境資源造成衝擊，自當主其事，嚴守立場加以把關，為敦促政府儘速將自然資源與環境破壞的外部成本納入考量，爰提案請環境部加快修訂時程，並於一個月內正式提出草案，俾達成環評法預防及減輕開發行為對環境造成不良影響之立法意旨。是否有當？敬請公決。","提案人：陳菁徽　　涂權吉　　邱鎮軍　　王育敏","五、","案由：台灣積極擴展太陽光電的同時，未來廢棄太陽光電板如何妥善處理，也應有完善、周全的配套規範，否則反可能造成嚴重的環境公害。109年行政院環境保護署與經濟部能源局所聯手推動的「回收清除處理體系」，係要求大規模進行太陽光電發電的業者，在設置時即需向經濟部能源局登記每一片太陽能板的序號，並繳交太陽光電板回收清理費用，當太陽能板需淘汰時，經上網登錄、按規範收集，由清除業者收運處理，家戶甚至露營車等民眾少量使用者，則撥打專線，獲得協助處理，若任意棄置廢棄太陽光電板，違者則依《廢棄物清理法》開罰。然而，除前揭經濟部的計畫外，環境部尚未將其納入廢棄物清理法第5條之應回收項目中，儘管現在尚未有大量太陽能板須汰換，但已經開始有零星的太陽能板廢棄案例，若法規未強制回收，恐使廠商便宜行事，來自非案廠、零星的個體戶廢棄太陽能板也可能激增，不只造成環境負擔，也與永續再生的精神不符。為敦促環境部超前部署，爰此要求環境部於三個月內修改辦法，將太陽能板列為「應回收」項目，完備廢棄太陽能板回收機制。是否有當？敬請公決。","提案人：陳菁徽　　涂權吉　　邱鎮軍　　王育敏　　"],["主席：謝謝宣讀。","主席在這邊補充宣告，因為等一下要質詢的委員也都已經到場，所以原本宣告處理完臨時提案之後會休息，我們就不休息，讓已經到場的委員可以繼續往下質詢，委員質詢結束，我們就散會。","接下來我們就來處理臨時提案。第1案，請問主管機關有沒有意見？如果沒有意見就通過，有修正意見再上來講。"],["蔡司長孟裕：報告主席，沒有意見。"],["主席：沒有意見，通過。","第2案。"],["蔡司長孟裕：報告主席，這個案子是不是可以在倒數第三行「一個月內，」後面加上……"],["主席：如果有修正意見就要上臺，沒有修正意見，我們直接通過，有修正意見請上臺發言，這樣才能紀錄。"],["蔡司長孟裕：謝謝主席。第2案建議是在倒數第三行「一個月內，」後面加上「會同經濟部」。"],["主席：好，經濟部也責無旁貸，沒問題。就這一個修正意見嘛？"],["蔡處長孟裕：對，就這一個。"],["主席：好，按修正通過。","第3案，有沒有意見？"],["蔡處長孟裕：報告主席，這個案子沒有意見。"],["主席：沒有意見，通過。","第4案。"],["蔡處長孟裕：報告主席，這個案子在倒數第三行的地方，前面數過來第五個字後面，「一個月內」改成「113年6月底前」，然後這一句的「草案」後面加兩個字「預告」。"],["主席：陳委員？"],["陳委員菁徽：勉強可以接受，但希望大家提出來的是一個可以接受的版本，因為已經從去年3月吵到現在了，謝謝。"],["主席：好，那就修正後通過。"],["蔡處長孟裕：謝謝委員。"],["主席：第5案。"],["賴署長盈盈：第5案跟委員報告，有一些建議的修正。"],["主席：修正內容宣讀一下。"],["賴署長盈盈：是。中間倒數第九行的「環境部尚未將其納入廢棄物清理法第十五條之應回收項目中」，另外就是在倒數第三行的「爰此提案要求環境部於六個月內修改公告」。以上建議修正。"],["陳委員菁徽：可以接受。"],["主席：好，第5案就按剛剛修正文字通過。","臨時提案已經全部處理完畢，我們接下來繼續質詢，所以有要質詢的委員趕快通知他到現場。","接下來我們請徐巧芯委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":404,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-7","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","王正旭","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 456.988, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 456.988, \"end\": 457.028, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 457.028, \"end\": 457.108, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"便\", \"start\": 457.108, \"end\": 457.128, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 457.128, \"end\": 457.248, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 457.248, \"end\": 457.328, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 457.328, \"end\": 457.508, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 457.508, \"end\": 457.528, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 457.528, \"end\": 457.628, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 457.628, \"end\": 457.648, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,884 --> 00:00:08,910\n有請環境部部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,295 --> 00:00:36,942\n部長早今天本席專程當我們委員會來質詢要跟部長來討論一下所謂的公開說明會的理想與現實一下本席提出的問題也請部長這邊你就直接肯定回答是或不是對或不對可以或不可以就好因為我的執行時間只有4分鐘根據貴部的環境影響評估公開說明會的作業要點\n\n3\n00:00:37,862 --> 00:00:58,092\n公開說明會的意旨就是在舉行公開說明會是期望能夠落實資訊公開跟民眾參與的原則然後呢貴部你們在訂了所謂的議程告訴開發單位你只要照這些程序開完就可以不管什麼狀況只要你書面資料上來我環境部就是認定你有完成這個程序完成這個說明會部長在這邊本想要告訴你\n\n4\n00:01:02,014 --> 00:01:16,442\n這樣的程序就是在包庇和縱容惡劣的開發商透過粗暴的手段來走程序走過水那這個接下來請部長跟在場的各位看一下3月14號金鼎公司在張冰開的說明會有多麼荒謬\n\n5\n00:01:41,025 --> 00:01:41,345\n聲音出不來\n\n6\n00:02:05,097 --> 00:02:22,208\n好,沒問題。是有聲音的。發現時間已有限,我們先把影片看完好了。好,OK,來請。\n\n7\n00:02:33,924 --> 00:02:51,814\n市長場面很混亂啦齁對啊因為其實齁部長本席在這邊本席要告訴你本席身上有98000票彰化第一選區我們鄉親的授權本席要問你說這樣子混亂的說明會現在有聲音了我們來看一下\n\n8\n00:03:15,563 --> 00:03:18,463\n請尊重這個會議這個會議現場是一個說明會我告訴你不要用民意代表身份我告訴你\n\n9\n00:03:32,726 --> 00:03:48,960\n如果今天我們要上法院的話,奉陪!請你放下麥克風!這裡不是你可以拿麥克風的地方!不是我們的政策!今天你要取得正義民眾的同意!今天的門檻就是要取得正義民眾的同意!民眾有同意嗎?\n\n10\n00:04:01,829 --> 00:04:02,029\n﹚陳秀寳﹚陳秀寳\n\n11\n00:04:30,250 --> 00:04:37,806\n好部長您看一下這樣子混亂沒有程序沒有秩序的說明會您覺得是成立的嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:39,926 --> 00:05:06,456\n現場這麼混亂現場這麼吵雜然後所謂的會議主持人他直接就是念完投影片然後宣布我們成會這樣子是合理的嗎在這邊本席要很明白的告訴我們環境部3月14日這個經理說明會的瑕疵跟荒謬的部分有民眾登記發言程序中他不斷的表示我有登記但是經理公司一直都沒有讓登記第一位的這位人士發言然後\n\n13\n00:05:07,296 --> 00:05:33,034\n在這個過程之後他把他概念的念完之後他就宣布他成會了第二個部分就是金鼎焚化爐在地方是重大的爭議這個案件明明知道會有很多人來參與但是他找了一個非常小的場地然後找了四星都找了人把所有的會場的位置都佔滿了有不同聲音的人根本進不去然後呢他直接金鼎公司就跟這些人說你們不用進來你們地順便就好還善笑說啊場地就這麼小啊你們進不來你就不要進來啊\n\n14\n00:05:34,675 --> 00:05:51,286\n這個期間我的助理也不斷的提出程序問題跟秩序問題那所謂的會議的這個主席他也不處理然後在一場混亂中在叫囂之中在整個的吵雜的這個環境當中他自顧自的把投影片念完了告訴大家我們程序走完了我們成會了這個部分呢我想\n\n15\n00:05:52,427 --> 00:06:04,195\n部長您看了這個影片你也能夠理解看到當時的場面是多麼的混亂本期真的強烈的質疑說這樣的會如果是真的是成會我們到底還有什麼程序正義可言在這邊\n\n16\n00:06:07,096 --> 00:06:17,724\n本席很認真的問一下部長您覺得這樣的說明會他是成會的嗎?他是合理的嗎?部長您只要告訴我你們你覺得這個說明會他合理嗎?他成會嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:27,965 --> 00:06:42,108\n現場很混亂嘛那有沒有按照剛剛陳文你不是有第一章這個講到程序應該怎麼樣包括有讓參與者發言的機會不過你剛剛講沒有沒有我們到時候就按照如果環境部你們的立場是認為說這樣就是可以成會的那本席覺得環境部是獅子的你們也辜負了民眾的期待那你現在能不能告訴我\n\n18\n00:06:52,390 --> 00:07:13,664\n金鼎3月14日在張彬的服務中心開了這個所謂的說明會在你們的判定他是不是成會因為我沒有現場參加我還沒有接到他們的報告所以我也不曉得他裡面是怎麼寫的那我們就根據我們的法條跟他部長因為主席也站起來他已經都給我很多時間了齁\n\n19\n00:07:14,505 --> 00:07:27,715\n本席要再一次嚴正的告訴部長以及環境部的你們這些相關的這些承辦如果經鼎這樣的說明會你們認為有這樣的瑕疵有這樣子的狀況你們還認為他是成會的我覺得\n\n20\n00:07:32,506 --> 00:07:37,648\n你們就是在告訴廠商就是在告訴廠商說你們開發商就可以用這種粗暴的方式來闖關來走程序來走過水跟你們環境部會認定它是沒有問題的這個部分我希望環境部你們要審慎為之不要讓這樣惡劣的廠商開方便之門以上謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7884\t8910\t有請環境部部長\n15295\t36942\t部長早今天本席專程當我們委員會來質詢要跟部長來討論一下所謂的公開說明會的理想與現實一下本席提出的問題也請部長這邊你就直接肯定回答是或不是對或不對可以或不可以就好因為我的執行時間只有4分鐘根據貴部的環境影響評估公開說明會的作業要點\n37862\t58092\t公開說明會的意旨就是在舉行公開說明會是期望能夠落實資訊公開跟民眾參與的原則然後呢貴部你們在訂了所謂的議程告訴開發單位你只要照這些程序開完就可以不管什麼狀況只要你書面資料上來我環境部就是認定你有完成這個程序完成這個說明會部長在這邊本想要告訴你\n62014\t76442\t這樣的程序就是在包庇和縱容惡劣的開發商透過粗暴的手段來走程序走過水那這個接下來請部長跟在場的各位看一下3月14號金鼎公司在張冰開的說明會有多麼荒謬\n101025\t101345\t聲音出不來\n125097\t142208\t好,沒問題。是有聲音的。發現時間已有限,我們先把影片看完好了。好,OK,來請。\n153924\t171814\t市長場面很混亂啦齁對啊因為其實齁部長本席在這邊本席要告訴你本席身上有98000票彰化第一選區我們鄉親的授權本席要問你說這樣子混亂的說明會現在有聲音了我們來看一下\n195563\t198463\t請尊重這個會議這個會議現場是一個說明會我告訴你不要用民意代表身份我告訴你\n212726\t228960\t如果今天我們要上法院的話,奉陪!請你放下麥克風!這裡不是你可以拿麥克風的地方!不是我們的政策!今天你要取得正義民眾的同意!今天的門檻就是要取得正義民眾的同意!民眾有同意嗎?\n241829\t242029\t﹚陳秀寳﹚陳秀寳\n270250\t277806\t好部長您看一下這樣子混亂沒有程序沒有秩序的說明會您覺得是成立的嗎?\n279926\t306456\t現場這麼混亂現場這麼吵雜然後所謂的會議主持人他直接就是念完投影片然後宣布我們成會這樣子是合理的嗎在這邊本席要很明白的告訴我們環境部3月14日這個經理說明會的瑕疵跟荒謬的部分有民眾登記發言程序中他不斷的表示我有登記但是經理公司一直都沒有讓登記第一位的這位人士發言然後\n307296\t333034\t在這個過程之後他把他概念的念完之後他就宣布他成會了第二個部分就是金鼎焚化爐在地方是重大的爭議這個案件明明知道會有很多人來參與但是他找了一個非常小的場地然後找了四星都找了人把所有的會場的位置都佔滿了有不同聲音的人根本進不去然後呢他直接金鼎公司就跟這些人說你們不用進來你們地順便就好還善笑說啊場地就這麼小啊你們進不來你就不要進來啊\n334675\t351286\t這個期間我的助理也不斷的提出程序問題跟秩序問題那所謂的會議的這個主席他也不處理然後在一場混亂中在叫囂之中在整個的吵雜的這個環境當中他自顧自的把投影片念完了告訴大家我們程序走完了我們成會了這個部分呢我想\n352427\t364195\t部長您看了這個影片你也能夠理解看到當時的場面是多麼的混亂本期真的強烈的質疑說這樣的會如果是真的是成會我們到底還有什麼程序正義可言在這邊\n367096\t377724\t本席很認真的問一下部長您覺得這樣的說明會他是成會的嗎?他是合理的嗎?部長您只要告訴我你們你覺得這個說明會他合理嗎?他成會嗎?\n387965\t402108\t現場很混亂嘛那有沒有按照剛剛陳文你不是有第一章這個講到程序應該怎麼樣包括有讓參與者發言的機會不過你剛剛講沒有沒有我們到時候就按照如果環境部你們的立場是認為說這樣就是可以成會的那本席覺得環境部是獅子的你們也辜負了民眾的期待那你現在能不能告訴我\n412390\t433664\t金鼎3月14日在張彬的服務中心開了這個所謂的說明會在你們的判定他是不是成會因為我沒有現場參加我還沒有接到他們的報告所以我也不曉得他裡面是怎麼寫的那我們就根據我們的法條跟他部長因為主席也站起來他已經都給我很多時間了齁\n434505\t447715\t本席要再一次嚴正的告訴部長以及環境部的你們這些相關的這些承辦如果經鼎這樣的說明會你們認為有這樣的瑕疵有這樣子的狀況你們還認為他是成會的我覺得\n452506\t457648\t你們就是在告訴廠商就是在告訴廠商說你們開發商就可以用這種粗暴的方式來闖關來走程序來走過水跟你們環境部會認定它是沒有問題的這個部分我希望環境部你們要審慎為之不要讓這樣惡劣的廠商開方便之門以上謝謝主席好謝謝\n","txt":"有請環境部部長\n部長早今天本席專程當我們委員會來質詢要跟部長來討論一下所謂的公開說明會的理想與現實一下本席提出的問題也請部長這邊你就直接肯定回答是或不是對或不對可以或不可以就好因為我的執行時間只有4分鐘根據貴部的環境影響評估公開說明會的作業要點\n公開說明會的意旨就是在舉行公開說明會是期望能夠落實資訊公開跟民眾參與的原則然後呢貴部你們在訂了所謂的議程告訴開發單位你只要照這些程序開完就可以不管什麼狀況只要你書面資料上來我環境部就是認定你有完成這個程序完成這個說明會部長在這邊本想要告訴你\n這樣的程序就是在包庇和縱容惡劣的開發商透過粗暴的手段來走程序走過水那這個接下來請部長跟在場的各位看一下3月14號金鼎公司在張冰開的說明會有多麼荒謬\n聲音出不來\n好,沒問題。是有聲音的。發現時間已有限,我們先把影片看完好了。好,OK,來請。\n市長場面很混亂啦齁對啊因為其實齁部長本席在這邊本席要告訴你本席身上有98000票彰化第一選區我們鄉親的授權本席要問你說這樣子混亂的說明會現在有聲音了我們來看一下\n請尊重這個會議這個會議現場是一個說明會我告訴你不要用民意代表身份我告訴你\n如果今天我們要上法院的話,奉陪!請你放下麥克風!這裡不是你可以拿麥克風的地方!不是我們的政策!今天你要取得正義民眾的同意!今天的門檻就是要取得正義民眾的同意!民眾有同意嗎?\n﹚陳秀寳﹚陳秀寳\n好部長您看一下這樣子混亂沒有程序沒有秩序的說明會您覺得是成立的嗎?\n現場這麼混亂現場這麼吵雜然後所謂的會議主持人他直接就是念完投影片然後宣布我們成會這樣子是合理的嗎在這邊本席要很明白的告訴我們環境部3月14日這個經理說明會的瑕疵跟荒謬的部分有民眾登記發言程序中他不斷的表示我有登記但是經理公司一直都沒有讓登記第一位的這位人士發言然後\n在這個過程之後他把他概念的念完之後他就宣布他成會了第二個部分就是金鼎焚化爐在地方是重大的爭議這個案件明明知道會有很多人來參與但是他找了一個非常小的場地然後找了四星都找了人把所有的會場的位置都佔滿了有不同聲音的人根本進不去然後呢他直接金鼎公司就跟這些人說你們不用進來你們地順便就好還善笑說啊場地就這麼小啊你們進不來你就不要進來啊\n這個期間我的助理也不斷的提出程序問題跟秩序問題那所謂的會議的這個主席他也不處理然後在一場混亂中在叫囂之中在整個的吵雜的這個環境當中他自顧自的把投影片念完了告訴大家我們程序走完了我們成會了這個部分呢我想\n部長您看了這個影片你也能夠理解看到當時的場面是多麼的混亂本期真的強烈的質疑說這樣的會如果是真的是成會我們到底還有什麼程序正義可言在這邊\n本席很認真的問一下部長您覺得這樣的說明會他是成會的嗎?他是合理的嗎?部長您只要告訴我你們你覺得這個說明會他合理嗎?他成會嗎?\n現場很混亂嘛那有沒有按照剛剛陳文你不是有第一章這個講到程序應該怎麼樣包括有讓參與者發言的機會不過你剛剛講沒有沒有我們到時候就按照如果環境部你們的立場是認為說這樣就是可以成會的那本席覺得環境部是獅子的你們也辜負了民眾的期待那你現在能不能告訴我\n金鼎3月14日在張彬的服務中心開了這個所謂的說明會在你們的判定他是不是成會因為我沒有現場參加我還沒有接到他們的報告所以我也不曉得他裡面是怎麼寫的那我們就根據我們的法條跟他部長因為主席也站起來他已經都給我很多時間了齁\n本席要再一次嚴正的告訴部長以及環境部的你們這些相關的這些承辦如果經鼎這樣的說明會你們認為有這樣的瑕疵有這樣子的狀況你們還認為他是成會的我覺得\n你們就是在告訴廠商就是在告訴廠商說你們開發商就可以用這種粗暴的方式來闖關來走程序來走過水跟你們環境部會認定它是沒有問題的這個部分我希望環境部你們要審慎為之不要讓這樣惡劣的廠商開方便之門以上謝謝主席好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.884 --> 00:08.910\n有請環境部部長\n\n00:15.295 --> 00:36.942\n部長早今天本席專程當我們委員會來質詢要跟部長來討論一下所謂的公開說明會的理想與現實一下本席提出的問題也請部長這邊你就直接肯定回答是或不是對或不對可以或不可以就好因為我的執行時間只有4分鐘根據貴部的環境影響評估公開說明會的作業要點\n\n00:37.862 --> 00:58.092\n公開說明會的意旨就是在舉行公開說明會是期望能夠落實資訊公開跟民眾參與的原則然後呢貴部你們在訂了所謂的議程告訴開發單位你只要照這些程序開完就可以不管什麼狀況只要你書面資料上來我環境部就是認定你有完成這個程序完成這個說明會部長在這邊本想要告訴你\n\n01:02.014 --> 01:16.442\n這樣的程序就是在包庇和縱容惡劣的開發商透過粗暴的手段來走程序走過水那這個接下來請部長跟在場的各位看一下3月14號金鼎公司在張冰開的說明會有多麼荒謬\n\n01:41.025 --> 01:41.345\n聲音出不來\n\n02:05.097 --> 02:22.208\n好,沒問題。是有聲音的。發現時間已有限,我們先把影片看完好了。好,OK,來請。\n\n02:33.924 --> 02:51.814\n市長場面很混亂啦齁對啊因為其實齁部長本席在這邊本席要告訴你本席身上有98000票彰化第一選區我們鄉親的授權本席要問你說這樣子混亂的說明會現在有聲音了我們來看一下\n\n03:15.563 --> 03:18.463\n請尊重這個會議這個會議現場是一個說明會我告訴你不要用民意代表身份我告訴你\n\n03:32.726 --> 03:48.960\n如果今天我們要上法院的話,奉陪!請你放下麥克風!這裡不是你可以拿麥克風的地方!不是我們的政策!今天你要取得正義民眾的同意!今天的門檻就是要取得正義民眾的同意!民眾有同意嗎?\n\n04:01.829 --> 04:02.029\n﹚陳秀寳﹚陳秀寳\n\n04:30.250 --> 04:37.806\n好部長您看一下這樣子混亂沒有程序沒有秩序的說明會您覺得是成立的嗎?\n\n04:39.926 --> 05:06.456\n現場這麼混亂現場這麼吵雜然後所謂的會議主持人他直接就是念完投影片然後宣布我們成會這樣子是合理的嗎在這邊本席要很明白的告訴我們環境部3月14日這個經理說明會的瑕疵跟荒謬的部分有民眾登記發言程序中他不斷的表示我有登記但是經理公司一直都沒有讓登記第一位的這位人士發言然後\n\n05:07.296 --> 05:33.034\n在這個過程之後他把他概念的念完之後他就宣布他成會了第二個部分就是金鼎焚化爐在地方是重大的爭議這個案件明明知道會有很多人來參與但是他找了一個非常小的場地然後找了四星都找了人把所有的會場的位置都佔滿了有不同聲音的人根本進不去然後呢他直接金鼎公司就跟這些人說你們不用進來你們地順便就好還善笑說啊場地就這麼小啊你們進不來你就不要進來啊\n\n05:34.675 --> 05:51.286\n這個期間我的助理也不斷的提出程序問題跟秩序問題那所謂的會議的這個主席他也不處理然後在一場混亂中在叫囂之中在整個的吵雜的這個環境當中他自顧自的把投影片念完了告訴大家我們程序走完了我們成會了這個部分呢我想\n\n05:52.427 --> 06:04.195\n部長您看了這個影片你也能夠理解看到當時的場面是多麼的混亂本期真的強烈的質疑說這樣的會如果是真的是成會我們到底還有什麼程序正義可言在這邊\n\n06:07.096 --> 06:17.724\n本席很認真的問一下部長您覺得這樣的說明會他是成會的嗎?他是合理的嗎?部長您只要告訴我你們你覺得這個說明會他合理嗎?他成會嗎?\n\n06:27.965 --> 06:42.108\n現場很混亂嘛那有沒有按照剛剛陳文你不是有第一章這個講到程序應該怎麼樣包括有讓參與者發言的機會不過你剛剛講沒有沒有我們到時候就按照如果環境部你們的立場是認為說這樣就是可以成會的那本席覺得環境部是獅子的你們也辜負了民眾的期待那你現在能不能告訴我\n\n06:52.390 --> 07:13.664\n金鼎3月14日在張彬的服務中心開了這個所謂的說明會在你們的判定他是不是成會因為我沒有現場參加我還沒有接到他們的報告所以我也不曉得他裡面是怎麼寫的那我們就根據我們的法條跟他部長因為主席也站起來他已經都給我很多時間了齁\n\n07:14.505 --> 07:27.715\n本席要再一次嚴正的告訴部長以及環境部的你們這些相關的這些承辦如果經鼎這樣的說明會你們認為有這樣的瑕疵有這樣子的狀況你們還認為他是成會的我覺得\n\n07:32.506 --> 07:37.648\n你們就是在告訴廠商就是在告訴廠商說你們開發商就可以用這種粗暴的方式來闖關來走程序來走過水跟你們環境部會認定它是沒有問題的這個部分我希望環境部你們要審慎為之不要讓這樣惡劣的廠商開方便之門以上謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.884,"end":8.91,"text":"有請環境部部長"},{"start":15.295,"end":36.942,"text":"部長早今天本席專程當我們委員會來質詢要跟部長來討論一下所謂的公開說明會的理想與現實一下本席提出的問題也請部長這邊你就直接肯定回答是或不是對或不對可以或不可以就好因為我的執行時間只有4分鐘根據貴部的環境影響評估公開說明會的作業要點"},{"start":37.862,"end":58.092,"text":"公開說明會的意旨就是在舉行公開說明會是期望能夠落實資訊公開跟民眾參與的原則然後呢貴部你們在訂了所謂的議程告訴開發單位你只要照這些程序開完就可以不管什麼狀況只要你書面資料上來我環境部就是認定你有完成這個程序完成這個說明會部長在這邊本想要告訴你"},{"start":62.014,"end":76.442,"text":"這樣的程序就是在包庇和縱容惡劣的開發商透過粗暴的手段來走程序走過水那這個接下來請部長跟在場的各位看一下3月14號金鼎公司在張冰開的說明會有多麼荒謬"},{"start":101.025,"end":101.345,"text":"聲音出不來"},{"start":125.097,"end":142.208,"text":"好,沒問題。是有聲音的。發現時間已有限,我們先把影片看完好了。好,OK,來請。"},{"start":153.924,"end":171.814,"text":"市長場面很混亂啦齁對啊因為其實齁部長本席在這邊本席要告訴你本席身上有98000票彰化第一選區我們鄉親的授權本席要問你說這樣子混亂的說明會現在有聲音了我們來看一下"},{"start":195.563,"end":198.463,"text":"請尊重這個會議這個會議現場是一個說明會我告訴你不要用民意代表身份我告訴你"},{"start":212.726,"end":228.96,"text":"如果今天我們要上法院的話,奉陪!請你放下麥克風!這裡不是你可以拿麥克風的地方!不是我們的政策!今天你要取得正義民眾的同意!今天的門檻就是要取得正義民眾的同意!民眾有同意嗎?"},{"start":241.829,"end":242.029,"text":"﹚陳秀寳﹚陳秀寳"},{"start":270.25,"end":277.806,"text":"好部長您看一下這樣子混亂沒有程序沒有秩序的說明會您覺得是成立的嗎?"},{"start":279.926,"end":306.456,"text":"現場這麼混亂現場這麼吵雜然後所謂的會議主持人他直接就是念完投影片然後宣布我們成會這樣子是合理的嗎在這邊本席要很明白的告訴我們環境部3月14日這個經理說明會的瑕疵跟荒謬的部分有民眾登記發言程序中他不斷的表示我有登記但是經理公司一直都沒有讓登記第一位的這位人士發言然後"},{"start":307.296,"end":333.034,"text":"在這個過程之後他把他概念的念完之後他就宣布他成會了第二個部分就是金鼎焚化爐在地方是重大的爭議這個案件明明知道會有很多人來參與但是他找了一個非常小的場地然後找了四星都找了人把所有的會場的位置都佔滿了有不同聲音的人根本進不去然後呢他直接金鼎公司就跟這些人說你們不用進來你們地順便就好還善笑說啊場地就這麼小啊你們進不來你就不要進來啊"},{"start":334.675,"end":351.286,"text":"這個期間我的助理也不斷的提出程序問題跟秩序問題那所謂的會議的這個主席他也不處理然後在一場混亂中在叫囂之中在整個的吵雜的這個環境當中他自顧自的把投影片念完了告訴大家我們程序走完了我們成會了這個部分呢我想"},{"start":352.427,"end":364.195,"text":"部長您看了這個影片你也能夠理解看到當時的場面是多麼的混亂本期真的強烈的質疑說這樣的會如果是真的是成會我們到底還有什麼程序正義可言在這邊"},{"start":367.096,"end":377.724,"text":"本席很認真的問一下部長您覺得這樣的說明會他是成會的嗎?他是合理的嗎?部長您只要告訴我你們你覺得這個說明會他合理嗎?他成會嗎?"},{"start":387.965,"end":402.108,"text":"現場很混亂嘛那有沒有按照剛剛陳文你不是有第一章這個講到程序應該怎麼樣包括有讓參與者發言的機會不過你剛剛講沒有沒有我們到時候就按照如果環境部你們的立場是認為說這樣就是可以成會的那本席覺得環境部是獅子的你們也辜負了民眾的期待那你現在能不能告訴我"},{"start":412.39,"end":433.664,"text":"金鼎3月14日在張彬的服務中心開了這個所謂的說明會在你們的判定他是不是成會因為我沒有現場參加我還沒有接到他們的報告所以我也不曉得他裡面是怎麼寫的那我們就根據我們的法條跟他部長因為主席也站起來他已經都給我很多時間了齁"},{"start":434.505,"end":447.715,"text":"本席要再一次嚴正的告訴部長以及環境部的你們這些相關的這些承辦如果經鼎這樣的說明會你們認為有這樣的瑕疵有這樣子的狀況你們還認為他是成會的我覺得"},{"start":452.506,"end":457.648,"text":"你們就是在告訴廠商就是在告訴廠商說你們開發商就可以用這種粗暴的方式來闖關來走程序來走過水跟你們環境部會認定它是沒有問題的這個部分我希望環境部你們要審慎為之不要讓這樣惡劣的廠商開方便之門以上謝謝主席好謝謝"}]}}}}