{"id":150258,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150258","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052ea5f4ff3f52e8bbae8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a616e388580db087295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"12:10:14 - 12:15:34","影片長度":"00:05:20","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-4"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":320,"end_time":"2024-03-21T12:15:34+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T12:10:14+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1129,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（12時10分）謝謝主席，我請部長、署長及兩位董事長。"],["主席：請上臺，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，臺灣其實常常很特別，因為我們很怕沒水，曾經發生過109年的百年大旱，但是我們又很怕太多水，因為颱風一旦來，我們可能還會淹水。臺灣不缺水，但是臺灣有很多水沒有辦法留得住，這才是最大的問題。我們剛剛聽到很多委員的質詢，就像大家所講的，接下來台積電還要再開十個廠，面對半導體等相關大量用水的工業大戶，臺灣的水會不會缺？"],["王部長美花：所以我們有很多個方法，包括南北調度也好，包括增加再生水跟海淡水等等。"],["黃委員珊珊：這就是上次我跟你提的，也就是說這些廠要來設，他們自己可能也要有一些努力，包括電、包括水，因為這些天然資源都是全民的，但是為了經濟發展，我們必須做一些犧牲，這個我們大家都同意，但是可能也需要大家一起來努力。除了我今天要問的開源，不然就是節流嘛，請問現在的漏水率有多高？"],["王部長美花：目前是12.54%。"],["黃委員珊珊：我看到你們的計畫是希望能夠降到多少？"],["王部長美花：下一期是希望降到10%。"],["黃委員珊珊：10%？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：如果現在的漏水率是13%，按照這樣的話，目前每年大概有兩座石門水庫的水量是漏掉的對吧？也就是說，我們的漏水量還是非常非常大。"],["王部長美花：但是漏水很難做到都不漏啦！"],["黃委員珊珊：所以要努力的換管、努力的維護，這才是重點嘛。我想問一下，每年我們花在維護換管、減少漏水的預算有多少？"],["王部長美花：大概一年是80億左右。"],["黃委員珊珊：80億你覺得夠嗎？"],["王部長美花：當然要再更多的話，它還有一些配套措施，包括……"],["黃委員珊珊：我認為就我們剛剛所講的，除了要開源節流之外，如果我們減少漏水率，我們的水價可能還可以繼續維持，如果我們的漏水都能夠收到水費的話，當然水公司就不會經營得這麼辛苦，所以減少漏水率是一個很重要的因素。針對1年80億，如果造成還是有將近兩座石門水庫的水在漏，我們是不是應該要增加相關預算來增加換管及解決漏水率的問題？"],["王部長美花：是的。"],["黃委員珊珊：除了剛剛給那麼多錢，這部分的錢可能要多編一點，因為這是會賺錢回來的，減少漏水率你是可以賺回來的，這個投資是划算的。","第二個部分就是剛剛大家提到無自來水地區非常多，你說現在的普及率已經很高，但還是有身在臺灣的民眾沒有辦法用到自來水，這是一個先進國家不應該有的現象。我在這邊要質詢的是，除了地方，還有一個叫做高地社區的供水問題。高地社區一直以來都有發生這樣的問題，我知道經濟部有一個計畫，但是執行了一年多，目前為止預算已經快用完了對吧？"],["賴署長建信：今年會結束，我們過去是編23億的預算。"],["黃委員珊珊：關於高地接水，我看到在你們的計畫裡面，全臺只有臺北市沒有得到補助是不是？"],["賴署長建信：我們是依照財力分級去進行補助的。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以臺北市就跳過，因為臺北市有錢？我在臺北市的時候，我們有爭取很多高地供水的改善，我看到中央的計畫到今年就結束了，剛剛部長說會再去爭取，是嗎？"],["賴署長建信：我們新的計畫現在在水資源審議會前會的審議過程之中。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以高地供水也是一樣，身為中華民國的國民，就有權利享受到民生用水，這是最基本的，既然之前有這樣的計畫，可是很多社區沒有來申請，麻煩部長，這個部分跟無自來水地區一樣的重要，高地供水有歷史的原因，所以這些問題可能也必須要解決。"],["賴署長建信：委員，那些老舊的高地社區本身就有自來水，只不過是因為它表前的水位在山下，加上社區裡面的漏水，那個本來是屬於管內、內線的部分，這個我們有專案計畫在協助他們處理。"],["黃委員珊珊：對，部長，也麻煩再爭取一下，這個計畫我希望能夠繼續執行。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請黃國昌委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-4","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:28,635\n所以我們有很多個方法包括南北調度也好包括增加再生水跟海淡水上次我跟你提的就是說這些廠要來設他們自己可能也要有一些努力包括電包括水因為這些天然資源都是全民的但是我們為了經濟發展我們必須做一些犧牲這個我們大家都同意但是可能也需要大家一起來努力所以我今天要問的是開源不然就是節流嗎\n\n5\n00:01:29,571 --> 00:01:53,039\n那現在的漏水率有多高?目前是12.54我看到你們的計畫是希望能夠降到多少?下一期是希望降到10%但是如果是現在的漏水率是13大概這樣的話目前大概有兩座石門水庫的水量每年是漏掉的對吧?\n\n6\n00:01:53,882 --> 00:01:58,885\n所以我想問一下每年我們花在維護所謂的換管減少漏水的預算有多少大概一年是八十億左右八十億你覺得夠嗎部長\n\n7\n00:02:17,317 --> 00:02:36,964\n八十億是當然你要再更多的時候他還有一些配套措施齁所以依照我認為啦如果我們剛剛講除了要開源節流之外如果我們減少漏水率我們的水價可能還可以繼續維持但是我們如果我們的漏水都能夠收到水費的話那當然水公司也不會經營得這麼辛苦\n\n8\n00:02:37,924 --> 00:02:37,964\n是,是。\n\n9\n00:02:56,456 --> 00:03:22,356\n這個可能部長除了剛剛給那麼多錢這個錢可能要多變一點因為這個是會賺錢回來的減少漏水率你是可以賺回來的這個投資是划算的第二個部分就是剛剛大家就講說無自來水地區非常的多那現在你說普及率已經很高但是還是有生在台灣的民眾他沒有辦法用到自來水這是一個先進國家不應該有的現象我這邊要質詢的是\n\n10\n00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:24,660\n今年會結束我們過去是編23億的這個預算\n\n11\n00:03:50,611 --> 00:04:05,913\n所以目前為止現在不好意思時間暫停一下好謝謝對不起所以我是認為說高地接水在我看到你們的計畫裡面全台只有台北市沒有得到補助是不是\n\n12\n00:04:07,293 --> 00:04:22,826\n我們是依照財力分解去進行補助的所以臺北市就跳過因為臺北市有錢因為我在臺北市的時候我們有爭取很多的高低供水的改善那我看到中央的計畫到今年就結束了剛剛部長說的會再去爭取是嗎\n\n13\n00:04:23,507 --> 00:04:48,935\n我們新的計畫現在在水資源審議的這個會前會審議的過程之中所以高低供水也是一樣身為中華民的國民他就有權利享受到民生用水這是最基本的既然之前有這樣的計畫可是很多的社區沒有來申請麻煩部長這個部分一樣跟無自來水地區一樣的重要高低供水它有歷史的\n\n14\n00:04:49,912 --> 00:04:50,613\n是,是,是。\n\n15\n00:05:19,541 --> 00:05:20,189\n謝謝接下來我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n609\t1650\t黃珊珊委員請做詢談。\n22261\t33105\t臺灣其實常常很特別因為我們很怕沒水曾經發生過109年的百年大旱但是我們又很怕太多水因為颱風一大來我們可能還會淹水\n34844\t58129\t台灣不缺水但是台灣的水很多水沒有辦法留得住這才是最大的問題所以現在的問題在於我們剛剛聽到很多的委員的質詢接下來就像剛剛講台積電還要再開10個廠如果對於半導體也好這些相關大量用水的工業大戶台灣的水會不會缺\n59444\t88635\t所以我們有很多個方法包括南北調度也好包括增加再生水跟海淡水上次我跟你提的就是說這些廠要來設他們自己可能也要有一些努力包括電包括水因為這些天然資源都是全民的但是我們為了經濟發展我們必須做一些犧牲這個我們大家都同意但是可能也需要大家一起來努力所以我今天要問的是開源不然就是節流嗎\n89571\t113039\t那現在的漏水率有多高?目前是12.54我看到你們的計畫是希望能夠降到多少?下一期是希望降到10%但是如果是現在的漏水率是13大概這樣的話目前大概有兩座石門水庫的水量每年是漏掉的對吧?\n113882\t118885\t所以我想問一下每年我們花在維護所謂的換管減少漏水的預算有多少大概一年是八十億左右八十億你覺得夠嗎部長\n137317\t156964\t八十億是當然你要再更多的時候他還有一些配套措施齁所以依照我認為啦如果我們剛剛講除了要開源節流之外如果我們減少漏水率我們的水價可能還可以繼續維持但是我們如果我們的漏水都能夠收到水費的話那當然水公司也不會經營得這麼辛苦\n157924\t157964\t是,是。\n176456\t202356\t這個可能部長除了剛剛給那麼多錢這個錢可能要多變一點因為這個是會賺錢回來的減少漏水率你是可以賺回來的這個投資是划算的第二個部分就是剛剛大家就講說無自來水地區非常的多那現在你說普及率已經很高但是還是有生在台灣的民眾他沒有辦法用到自來水這是一個先進國家不應該有的現象我這邊要質詢的是\n204360\t204660\t今年會結束我們過去是編23億的這個預算\n230611\t245913\t所以目前為止現在不好意思時間暫停一下好謝謝對不起所以我是認為說高地接水在我看到你們的計畫裡面全台只有台北市沒有得到補助是不是\n247293\t262826\t我們是依照財力分解去進行補助的所以臺北市就跳過因為臺北市有錢因為我在臺北市的時候我們有爭取很多的高低供水的改善那我看到中央的計畫到今年就結束了剛剛部長說的會再去爭取是嗎\n263507\t288935\t我們新的計畫現在在水資源審議的這個會前會審議的過程之中所以高低供水也是一樣身為中華民的國民他就有權利享受到民生用水這是最基本的既然之前有這樣的計畫可是很多的社區沒有來申請麻煩部長這個部分一樣跟無自來水地區一樣的重要高低供水它有歷史的\n289912\t290613\t是,是,是。\n319541\t320189\t謝謝接下來我們請\n","txt":"黃珊珊委員請做詢談。\n臺灣其實常常很特別因為我們很怕沒水曾經發生過109年的百年大旱但是我們又很怕太多水因為颱風一大來我們可能還會淹水\n台灣不缺水但是台灣的水很多水沒有辦法留得住這才是最大的問題所以現在的問題在於我們剛剛聽到很多的委員的質詢接下來就像剛剛講台積電還要再開10個廠如果對於半導體也好這些相關大量用水的工業大戶台灣的水會不會缺\n所以我們有很多個方法包括南北調度也好包括增加再生水跟海淡水上次我跟你提的就是說這些廠要來設他們自己可能也要有一些努力包括電包括水因為這些天然資源都是全民的但是我們為了經濟發展我們必須做一些犧牲這個我們大家都同意但是可能也需要大家一起來努力所以我今天要問的是開源不然就是節流嗎\n那現在的漏水率有多高?目前是12.54我看到你們的計畫是希望能夠降到多少?下一期是希望降到10%但是如果是現在的漏水率是13大概這樣的話目前大概有兩座石門水庫的水量每年是漏掉的對吧?\n所以我想問一下每年我們花在維護所謂的換管減少漏水的預算有多少大概一年是八十億左右八十億你覺得夠嗎部長\n八十億是當然你要再更多的時候他還有一些配套措施齁所以依照我認為啦如果我們剛剛講除了要開源節流之外如果我們減少漏水率我們的水價可能還可以繼續維持但是我們如果我們的漏水都能夠收到水費的話那當然水公司也不會經營得這麼辛苦\n是,是。\n這個可能部長除了剛剛給那麼多錢這個錢可能要多變一點因為這個是會賺錢回來的減少漏水率你是可以賺回來的這個投資是划算的第二個部分就是剛剛大家就講說無自來水地區非常的多那現在你說普及率已經很高但是還是有生在台灣的民眾他沒有辦法用到自來水這是一個先進國家不應該有的現象我這邊要質詢的是\n今年會結束我們過去是編23億的這個預算\n所以目前為止現在不好意思時間暫停一下好謝謝對不起所以我是認為說高地接水在我看到你們的計畫裡面全台只有台北市沒有得到補助是不是\n我們是依照財力分解去進行補助的所以臺北市就跳過因為臺北市有錢因為我在臺北市的時候我們有爭取很多的高低供水的改善那我看到中央的計畫到今年就結束了剛剛部長說的會再去爭取是嗎\n我們新的計畫現在在水資源審議的這個會前會審議的過程之中所以高低供水也是一樣身為中華民的國民他就有權利享受到民生用水這是最基本的既然之前有這樣的計畫可是很多的社區沒有來申請麻煩部長這個部分一樣跟無自來水地區一樣的重要高低供水它有歷史的\n是,是,是。\n謝謝接下來我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.609 --> 00:01.650\n黃珊珊委員請做詢談。\n\n00:22.261 --> 00:33.105\n臺灣其實常常很特別因為我們很怕沒水曾經發生過109年的百年大旱但是我們又很怕太多水因為颱風一大來我們可能還會淹水\n\n00:34.844 --> 00:58.129\n台灣不缺水但是台灣的水很多水沒有辦法留得住這才是最大的問題所以現在的問題在於我們剛剛聽到很多的委員的質詢接下來就像剛剛講台積電還要再開10個廠如果對於半導體也好這些相關大量用水的工業大戶台灣的水會不會缺\n\n00:59.444 --> 01:28.635\n所以我們有很多個方法包括南北調度也好包括增加再生水跟海淡水上次我跟你提的就是說這些廠要來設他們自己可能也要有一些努力包括電包括水因為這些天然資源都是全民的但是我們為了經濟發展我們必須做一些犧牲這個我們大家都同意但是可能也需要大家一起來努力所以我今天要問的是開源不然就是節流嗎\n\n01:29.571 --> 01:53.039\n那現在的漏水率有多高?目前是12.54我看到你們的計畫是希望能夠降到多少?下一期是希望降到10%但是如果是現在的漏水率是13大概這樣的話目前大概有兩座石門水庫的水量每年是漏掉的對吧?\n\n01:53.882 --> 01:58.885\n所以我想問一下每年我們花在維護所謂的換管減少漏水的預算有多少大概一年是八十億左右八十億你覺得夠嗎部長\n\n02:17.317 --> 02:36.964\n八十億是當然你要再更多的時候他還有一些配套措施齁所以依照我認為啦如果我們剛剛講除了要開源節流之外如果我們減少漏水率我們的水價可能還可以繼續維持但是我們如果我們的漏水都能夠收到水費的話那當然水公司也不會經營得這麼辛苦\n\n02:37.924 --> 02:37.964\n是,是。\n\n02:56.456 --> 03:22.356\n這個可能部長除了剛剛給那麼多錢這個錢可能要多變一點因為這個是會賺錢回來的減少漏水率你是可以賺回來的這個投資是划算的第二個部分就是剛剛大家就講說無自來水地區非常的多那現在你說普及率已經很高但是還是有生在台灣的民眾他沒有辦法用到自來水這是一個先進國家不應該有的現象我這邊要質詢的是\n\n03:24.360 --> 03:24.660\n今年會結束我們過去是編23億的這個預算\n\n03:50.611 --> 04:05.913\n所以目前為止現在不好意思時間暫停一下好謝謝對不起所以我是認為說高地接水在我看到你們的計畫裡面全台只有台北市沒有得到補助是不是\n\n04:07.293 --> 04:22.826\n我們是依照財力分解去進行補助的所以臺北市就跳過因為臺北市有錢因為我在臺北市的時候我們有爭取很多的高低供水的改善那我看到中央的計畫到今年就結束了剛剛部長說的會再去爭取是嗎\n\n04:23.507 --> 04:48.935\n我們新的計畫現在在水資源審議的這個會前會審議的過程之中所以高低供水也是一樣身為中華民的國民他就有權利享受到民生用水這是最基本的既然之前有這樣的計畫可是很多的社區沒有來申請麻煩部長這個部分一樣跟無自來水地區一樣的重要高低供水它有歷史的\n\n04:49.912 --> 04:50.613\n是,是,是。\n\n05:19.541 --> 05:20.189\n謝謝接下來我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.609,"end":1.65,"text":"黃珊珊委員請做詢談。"},{"start":22.261,"end":33.105,"text":"臺灣其實常常很特別因為我們很怕沒水曾經發生過109年的百年大旱但是我們又很怕太多水因為颱風一大來我們可能還會淹水"},{"start":34.844,"end":58.129,"text":"台灣不缺水但是台灣的水很多水沒有辦法留得住這才是最大的問題所以現在的問題在於我們剛剛聽到很多的委員的質詢接下來就像剛剛講台積電還要再開10個廠如果對於半導體也好這些相關大量用水的工業大戶台灣的水會不會缺"},{"start":59.444,"end":88.635,"text":"所以我們有很多個方法包括南北調度也好包括增加再生水跟海淡水上次我跟你提的就是說這些廠要來設他們自己可能也要有一些努力包括電包括水因為這些天然資源都是全民的但是我們為了經濟發展我們必須做一些犧牲這個我們大家都同意但是可能也需要大家一起來努力所以我今天要問的是開源不然就是節流嗎"},{"start":89.571,"end":113.039,"text":"那現在的漏水率有多高?目前是12.54我看到你們的計畫是希望能夠降到多少?下一期是希望降到10%但是如果是現在的漏水率是13大概這樣的話目前大概有兩座石門水庫的水量每年是漏掉的對吧?"},{"start":113.882,"end":118.885,"text":"所以我想問一下每年我們花在維護所謂的換管減少漏水的預算有多少大概一年是八十億左右八十億你覺得夠嗎部長"},{"start":137.317,"end":156.964,"text":"八十億是當然你要再更多的時候他還有一些配套措施齁所以依照我認為啦如果我們剛剛講除了要開源節流之外如果我們減少漏水率我們的水價可能還可以繼續維持但是我們如果我們的漏水都能夠收到水費的話那當然水公司也不會經營得這麼辛苦"},{"start":157.924,"end":157.964,"text":"是,是。"},{"start":176.456,"end":202.356,"text":"這個可能部長除了剛剛給那麼多錢這個錢可能要多變一點因為這個是會賺錢回來的減少漏水率你是可以賺回來的這個投資是划算的第二個部分就是剛剛大家就講說無自來水地區非常的多那現在你說普及率已經很高但是還是有生在台灣的民眾他沒有辦法用到自來水這是一個先進國家不應該有的現象我這邊要質詢的是"},{"start":204.36,"end":204.66,"text":"今年會結束我們過去是編23億的這個預算"},{"start":230.611,"end":245.913,"text":"所以目前為止現在不好意思時間暫停一下好謝謝對不起所以我是認為說高地接水在我看到你們的計畫裡面全台只有台北市沒有得到補助是不是"},{"start":247.293,"end":262.826,"text":"我們是依照財力分解去進行補助的所以臺北市就跳過因為臺北市有錢因為我在臺北市的時候我們有爭取很多的高低供水的改善那我看到中央的計畫到今年就結束了剛剛部長說的會再去爭取是嗎"},{"start":263.507,"end":288.935,"text":"我們新的計畫現在在水資源審議的這個會前會審議的過程之中所以高低供水也是一樣身為中華民的國民他就有權利享受到民生用水這是最基本的既然之前有這樣的計畫可是很多的社區沒有來申請麻煩部長這個部分一樣跟無自來水地區一樣的重要高低供水它有歷史的"},{"start":289.912,"end":290.613,"text":"是,是,是。"},{"start":319.541,"end":320.189,"text":"謝謝接下來我們請"}]}}}}