{"id":150264,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150264","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052ec7f240bc0b26e8ce8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a61a06a885b33e9f7b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"12:23:36 - 12:29:15","影片長度":"00:05:39","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-4"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":339,"end_time":"2024-03-21T12:29:15+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T12:23:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1207,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時23分）謝謝主席，請王美花部長及水利署賴署長。"],["主席：請部長、署長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好、署長好。今天的焦點大概都是集中在台積電已經準備要落腳到嘉義縣，引起了地方縣市雲林、嘉義的用水大戰，導致大家搶水，這個問題剛才大家一定討論了很多，我現在要跟部長、署長講，在這個case裡面，過去很少會出現縣市之間為了水搶成這樣，主要是因為現在各縣市的產業用水，甚至在用水部分都出現缺水的狀況，所以這個問題其實非常嚴重。我們過去說五缺──缺水、缺電、缺人、缺地，後來是缺蛋、缺快篩劑等等一大堆，這個跟你們無關。","可是水不是只有民生要用，產業也要用，我們看到2030年各縣市光是民生用水的部分統統會出現供水缺口，包含臺南、高雄、桃園、臺中，還有其他的新竹縣市加起來，每日都有供水缺口。我要特別請教部長，雖然我不曉得520之後你會不會繼續擔任經濟部部長，依據水利署所做的產業用水推估，未來在2036年時產業用水的每日需水量會提高到162萬噸，這是每日，每年用水量會從16.8億噸增加到22.8億噸，也就是每年會增加6億噸的用水，漲幅高達35%。我們知道未來要供應水的這些建設不是半個月前、一年前或兩年前才規劃，事實上要非常早就開始未雨綢繆來做，比如這次的嘉義用水問題，你們的淡水處理廠蓋好的時間比原來量產的時間還要晚，所以才會出現了一個供水缺口的問題。我想請問部長和署長，面對未來全臺縣市產業用水的推估都在增加，而我們現在很多的用水建設其實也看不到，或者有一些可能還會遭到地方抗爭，或是可能與環境影響評估有牴觸，未來該怎麼辦？缺電很嚴重、缺水也很嚴重啦！"],["賴署長建信：首先跟委員說明，你剛剛講2030各縣市缺水的事情是在完全零方案的情況之下，事實上，依照我們的區域水資源經理計畫，包括現況跟未來我們都是供給大於需求的，這是第一點。過去從107年以來，我們採取了開源、節流、調度、備援，全國增加了221萬噸的水，將近是全國自來水用水量的20%左右，所以這也是為了我們的產業發展、民生需求各方面的穩定。"],["王委員鴻薇：如果按照你講的這麼好聽，今天也就不會出現兩個縣市的用水大戰。"],["賴署長建信：嘉義並沒有缺水，它的海淡廠是一個保險的用水。"],["王委員鴻薇：當一個這麼大的產能落腳的時候，它就出現水的問題，你到底在跟我講什麼？你現在講的是保持原狀的狀況之下，但是全臺不是只有嘉義，台積電在全臺會有10座新廠，它不只是吃電怪獸，它也是用水怪獸，所以它要用電也要用水啊！"],["賴署長建信：經過我們盤點，目前嘉義地區的供水量是大於它的需求量。"],["王委員鴻薇：我的時間已經到了，我不願意耽誤下面委員的發言。"],["賴署長建信：即便嘉義科技園區3.6萬噸的水……"],["王委員鴻薇：當然政務官到了520不一定留在位子上，但是事務官也要面臨這樣的問題，未來如果我們希望台積電留在臺灣蓋更多的廠，在總質詢的時候我問了部長，它未來要蓋10座新廠，我們的電夠不夠？現在的問題是它未來要蓋10座新廠，我們的水夠不夠？而擺在眼前的是不夠！所以我覺得水的部分其實並沒有比電的部分減緩。"],["王部長美花：我們的水要做聰明的調度，這幾年來政府很努力在做，我想全臺灣的用水我們都會增加相關的調度跟開發新的水源。"],["王委員鴻薇：開發新水源也有很多問題，謝謝。"],["主席：請何欣純委員詢答，會場請安靜，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-4","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:37,195\n2030年我們各縣市光是民生用水的部分通通會出現供水的缺口這個是包含台南、高雄、桃園、台中還有其他的新竹縣市加起來\n\n6\n00:01:38,581 --> 00:01:54,771\n都會出現每日都有供水的缺口好下一個我是要特別請教部長雖然520之後我不曉得你會不會繼續擔任經濟部部長可是我們現在出現了一個產業用水的一個推估\n\n7\n00:01:55,511 --> 00:02:14,381\n這是水利數所做的我們到了未來在2036年的時候我們每日的需水量是產業用水會提高到162萬噸這是每日每一年的用水量從16.8億噸增加到22.8億噸也就是說每年會增加了6億噸的水\n\n8\n00:02:21,204 --> 00:02:22,990\n成長幅高達35%也就是說我們知道所有的你現在要\n\n9\n00:02:29,005 --> 00:02:40,194\n各位來供應水的這些建設啊不是半個月前一年前或兩年前事實上是要非常早的開始位於籌謀的來做比如說這次的嘉義的這個水你們這個淡水處理廠的一個蓋好的時間比他原來的量產的時間還要晚所以才會出現了一個這個供水缺口的問題那我想請問部長跟署長\n\n10\n00:02:54,426 --> 00:03:14,667\n面對未來我們整個全台縣市產業用水的推估都在增加而我們現在很多的用水的建設我們其實也看不到啊或者有一些可能還會遭到一些抗爭地方的抗爭或者是跟環境影響評估可能也會有抵觸未來這個該怎麼辦\n\n11\n00:03:18,611 --> 00:03:32,868\n首先跟委員說明你剛剛講2030各縣市缺水的事情是在完全零方案的情況之下事實上依照我們的區域水資源經濟計畫包括現況跟未來\n\n12\n00:03:34,991 --> 00:03:36,212\n如果按照你講的這麼好聽今天也就不會出現兩個縣市用水大戰嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:05,351 --> 00:04:07,232\n他那個海淡廠是一個保險的用處。\n\n14\n00:04:32,145 --> 00:04:40,155\n這個經過我們盤點目前嘉義地區的供水量是大於他的需求量即便他的嘉義科學園區3.6萬噸的水但是我真的覺得不管當然政務官你可能到520你不一定留在位置上但是事務官也要面臨這樣的問題\n\n15\n00:04:50,467 --> 00:05:07,662\n那麼未來我們如果說今天未來我們希望台積電留在台灣蓋更多的廠在總諮詢所問的部長說他未來要蓋10座新廠我們電夠不夠現在的問題是他未來要蓋10座新廠我們的水夠不夠而擺在眼前的是不夠\n\n16\n00:05:09,163 --> 00:05:31,585\n所以這些部分真的水的部分我覺得其實比電的部分並沒有會比較節緩我們水其實就是要用聰明的來做調度這個是這幾年來政府很努力在做我想這個全台灣的用水我們都會增加相關的調度跟開發新的水源開發新水源也有很多問題謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7970\t13434\t謝謝主席我請王美花部長還有水利署請部長賴署長\n17725\t17985\t王鴻薇議員\n39483\t56076\t但是我現在要跟部長跟署長講的為什麼在這個case裡面過去我們很少會出現這個縣市之間為了水這樣搶成這樣子主要是因為我們現在各縣市的產業用水\n57205\t81603\t甚至我們的用水部分都會出現缺水的狀況所以這個問題其實非常嚴重我們過去說什麼五缺缺水缺電缺人缺地後來什麼缺蛋缺快篩劑什麼吧一大堆這個跟你們沒關可是呢水不是只有民生要用產業也要用我們可以看到\n83927\t97195\t2030年我們各縣市光是民生用水的部分通通會出現供水的缺口這個是包含台南、高雄、桃園、台中還有其他的新竹縣市加起來\n98581\t114771\t都會出現每日都有供水的缺口好下一個我是要特別請教部長雖然520之後我不曉得你會不會繼續擔任經濟部部長可是我們現在出現了一個產業用水的一個推估\n115511\t134381\t這是水利數所做的我們到了未來在2036年的時候我們每日的需水量是產業用水會提高到162萬噸這是每日每一年的用水量從16.8億噸增加到22.8億噸也就是說每年會增加了6億噸的水\n141204\t142990\t成長幅高達35%也就是說我們知道所有的你現在要\n149005\t160194\t各位來供應水的這些建設啊不是半個月前一年前或兩年前事實上是要非常早的開始位於籌謀的來做比如說這次的嘉義的這個水你們這個淡水處理廠的一個蓋好的時間比他原來的量產的時間還要晚所以才會出現了一個這個供水缺口的問題那我想請問部長跟署長\n174426\t194667\t面對未來我們整個全台縣市產業用水的推估都在增加而我們現在很多的用水的建設我們其實也看不到啊或者有一些可能還會遭到一些抗爭地方的抗爭或者是跟環境影響評估可能也會有抵觸未來這個該怎麼辦\n198611\t212868\t首先跟委員說明你剛剛講2030各縣市缺水的事情是在完全零方案的情況之下事實上依照我們的區域水資源經濟計畫包括現況跟未來\n214991\t216212\t如果按照你講的這麼好聽今天也就不會出現兩個縣市用水大戰嗎?\n245351\t247232\t他那個海淡廠是一個保險的用處。\n272145\t280155\t這個經過我們盤點目前嘉義地區的供水量是大於他的需求量即便他的嘉義科學園區3.6萬噸的水但是我真的覺得不管當然政務官你可能到520你不一定留在位置上但是事務官也要面臨這樣的問題\n290467\t307662\t那麼未來我們如果說今天未來我們希望台積電留在台灣蓋更多的廠在總諮詢所問的部長說他未來要蓋10座新廠我們電夠不夠現在的問題是他未來要蓋10座新廠我們的水夠不夠而擺在眼前的是不夠\n309163\t331585\t所以這些部分真的水的部分我覺得其實比電的部分並沒有會比較節緩我們水其實就是要用聰明的來做調度這個是這幾年來政府很努力在做我想這個全台灣的用水我們都會增加相關的調度跟開發新的水源開發新水源也有很多問題謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請王美花部長還有水利署請部長賴署長\n王鴻薇議員\n但是我現在要跟部長跟署長講的為什麼在這個case裡面過去我們很少會出現這個縣市之間為了水這樣搶成這樣子主要是因為我們現在各縣市的產業用水\n甚至我們的用水部分都會出現缺水的狀況所以這個問題其實非常嚴重我們過去說什麼五缺缺水缺電缺人缺地後來什麼缺蛋缺快篩劑什麼吧一大堆這個跟你們沒關可是呢水不是只有民生要用產業也要用我們可以看到\n2030年我們各縣市光是民生用水的部分通通會出現供水的缺口這個是包含台南、高雄、桃園、台中還有其他的新竹縣市加起來\n都會出現每日都有供水的缺口好下一個我是要特別請教部長雖然520之後我不曉得你會不會繼續擔任經濟部部長可是我們現在出現了一個產業用水的一個推估\n這是水利數所做的我們到了未來在2036年的時候我們每日的需水量是產業用水會提高到162萬噸這是每日每一年的用水量從16.8億噸增加到22.8億噸也就是說每年會增加了6億噸的水\n成長幅高達35%也就是說我們知道所有的你現在要\n各位來供應水的這些建設啊不是半個月前一年前或兩年前事實上是要非常早的開始位於籌謀的來做比如說這次的嘉義的這個水你們這個淡水處理廠的一個蓋好的時間比他原來的量產的時間還要晚所以才會出現了一個這個供水缺口的問題那我想請問部長跟署長\n面對未來我們整個全台縣市產業用水的推估都在增加而我們現在很多的用水的建設我們其實也看不到啊或者有一些可能還會遭到一些抗爭地方的抗爭或者是跟環境影響評估可能也會有抵觸未來這個該怎麼辦\n首先跟委員說明你剛剛講2030各縣市缺水的事情是在完全零方案的情況之下事實上依照我們的區域水資源經濟計畫包括現況跟未來\n如果按照你講的這麼好聽今天也就不會出現兩個縣市用水大戰嗎?\n他那個海淡廠是一個保險的用處。\n這個經過我們盤點目前嘉義地區的供水量是大於他的需求量即便他的嘉義科學園區3.6萬噸的水但是我真的覺得不管當然政務官你可能到520你不一定留在位置上但是事務官也要面臨這樣的問題\n那麼未來我們如果說今天未來我們希望台積電留在台灣蓋更多的廠在總諮詢所問的部長說他未來要蓋10座新廠我們電夠不夠現在的問題是他未來要蓋10座新廠我們的水夠不夠而擺在眼前的是不夠\n所以這些部分真的水的部分我覺得其實比電的部分並沒有會比較節緩我們水其實就是要用聰明的來做調度這個是這幾年來政府很努力在做我想這個全台灣的用水我們都會增加相關的調度跟開發新的水源開發新水源也有很多問題謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.970 --> 00:13.434\n謝謝主席我請王美花部長還有水利署請部長賴署長\n\n00:17.725 --> 00:17.985\n王鴻薇議員\n\n00:39.483 --> 00:56.076\n但是我現在要跟部長跟署長講的為什麼在這個case裡面過去我們很少會出現這個縣市之間為了水這樣搶成這樣子主要是因為我們現在各縣市的產業用水\n\n00:57.205 --> 01:21.603\n甚至我們的用水部分都會出現缺水的狀況所以這個問題其實非常嚴重我們過去說什麼五缺缺水缺電缺人缺地後來什麼缺蛋缺快篩劑什麼吧一大堆這個跟你們沒關可是呢水不是只有民生要用產業也要用我們可以看到\n\n01:23.927 --> 01:37.195\n2030年我們各縣市光是民生用水的部分通通會出現供水的缺口這個是包含台南、高雄、桃園、台中還有其他的新竹縣市加起來\n\n01:38.581 --> 01:54.771\n都會出現每日都有供水的缺口好下一個我是要特別請教部長雖然520之後我不曉得你會不會繼續擔任經濟部部長可是我們現在出現了一個產業用水的一個推估\n\n01:55.511 --> 02:14.381\n這是水利數所做的我們到了未來在2036年的時候我們每日的需水量是產業用水會提高到162萬噸這是每日每一年的用水量從16.8億噸增加到22.8億噸也就是說每年會增加了6億噸的水\n\n02:21.204 --> 02:22.990\n成長幅高達35%也就是說我們知道所有的你現在要\n\n02:29.005 --> 02:40.194\n各位來供應水的這些建設啊不是半個月前一年前或兩年前事實上是要非常早的開始位於籌謀的來做比如說這次的嘉義的這個水你們這個淡水處理廠的一個蓋好的時間比他原來的量產的時間還要晚所以才會出現了一個這個供水缺口的問題那我想請問部長跟署長\n\n02:54.426 --> 03:14.667\n面對未來我們整個全台縣市產業用水的推估都在增加而我們現在很多的用水的建設我們其實也看不到啊或者有一些可能還會遭到一些抗爭地方的抗爭或者是跟環境影響評估可能也會有抵觸未來這個該怎麼辦\n\n03:18.611 --> 03:32.868\n首先跟委員說明你剛剛講2030各縣市缺水的事情是在完全零方案的情況之下事實上依照我們的區域水資源經濟計畫包括現況跟未來\n\n03:34.991 --> 03:36.212\n如果按照你講的這麼好聽今天也就不會出現兩個縣市用水大戰嗎?\n\n04:05.351 --> 04:07.232\n他那個海淡廠是一個保險的用處。\n\n04:32.145 --> 04:40.155\n這個經過我們盤點目前嘉義地區的供水量是大於他的需求量即便他的嘉義科學園區3.6萬噸的水但是我真的覺得不管當然政務官你可能到520你不一定留在位置上但是事務官也要面臨這樣的問題\n\n04:50.467 --> 05:07.662\n那麼未來我們如果說今天未來我們希望台積電留在台灣蓋更多的廠在總諮詢所問的部長說他未來要蓋10座新廠我們電夠不夠現在的問題是他未來要蓋10座新廠我們的水夠不夠而擺在眼前的是不夠\n\n05:09.163 --> 05:31.585\n所以這些部分真的水的部分我覺得其實比電的部分並沒有會比較節緩我們水其實就是要用聰明的來做調度這個是這幾年來政府很努力在做我想這個全台灣的用水我們都會增加相關的調度跟開發新的水源開發新水源也有很多問題謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.97,"end":13.434,"text":"謝謝主席我請王美花部長還有水利署請部長賴署長"},{"start":17.725,"end":17.985,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":39.483,"end":56.076,"text":"但是我現在要跟部長跟署長講的為什麼在這個case裡面過去我們很少會出現這個縣市之間為了水這樣搶成這樣子主要是因為我們現在各縣市的產業用水"},{"start":57.205,"end":81.603,"text":"甚至我們的用水部分都會出現缺水的狀況所以這個問題其實非常嚴重我們過去說什麼五缺缺水缺電缺人缺地後來什麼缺蛋缺快篩劑什麼吧一大堆這個跟你們沒關可是呢水不是只有民生要用產業也要用我們可以看到"},{"start":83.927,"end":97.195,"text":"2030年我們各縣市光是民生用水的部分通通會出現供水的缺口這個是包含台南、高雄、桃園、台中還有其他的新竹縣市加起來"},{"start":98.581,"end":114.771,"text":"都會出現每日都有供水的缺口好下一個我是要特別請教部長雖然520之後我不曉得你會不會繼續擔任經濟部部長可是我們現在出現了一個產業用水的一個推估"},{"start":115.511,"end":134.381,"text":"這是水利數所做的我們到了未來在2036年的時候我們每日的需水量是產業用水會提高到162萬噸這是每日每一年的用水量從16.8億噸增加到22.8億噸也就是說每年會增加了6億噸的水"},{"start":141.204,"end":142.99,"text":"成長幅高達35%也就是說我們知道所有的你現在要"},{"start":149.005,"end":160.194,"text":"各位來供應水的這些建設啊不是半個月前一年前或兩年前事實上是要非常早的開始位於籌謀的來做比如說這次的嘉義的這個水你們這個淡水處理廠的一個蓋好的時間比他原來的量產的時間還要晚所以才會出現了一個這個供水缺口的問題那我想請問部長跟署長"},{"start":174.426,"end":194.667,"text":"面對未來我們整個全台縣市產業用水的推估都在增加而我們現在很多的用水的建設我們其實也看不到啊或者有一些可能還會遭到一些抗爭地方的抗爭或者是跟環境影響評估可能也會有抵觸未來這個該怎麼辦"},{"start":198.611,"end":212.868,"text":"首先跟委員說明你剛剛講2030各縣市缺水的事情是在完全零方案的情況之下事實上依照我們的區域水資源經濟計畫包括現況跟未來"},{"start":214.991,"end":216.212,"text":"如果按照你講的這麼好聽今天也就不會出現兩個縣市用水大戰嗎?"},{"start":245.351,"end":247.232,"text":"他那個海淡廠是一個保險的用處。"},{"start":272.145,"end":280.155,"text":"這個經過我們盤點目前嘉義地區的供水量是大於他的需求量即便他的嘉義科學園區3.6萬噸的水但是我真的覺得不管當然政務官你可能到520你不一定留在位置上但是事務官也要面臨這樣的問題"},{"start":290.467,"end":307.662,"text":"那麼未來我們如果說今天未來我們希望台積電留在台灣蓋更多的廠在總諮詢所問的部長說他未來要蓋10座新廠我們電夠不夠現在的問題是他未來要蓋10座新廠我們的水夠不夠而擺在眼前的是不夠"},{"start":309.163,"end":331.585,"text":"所以這些部分真的水的部分我覺得其實比電的部分並沒有會比較節緩我們水其實就是要用聰明的來做調度這個是這幾年來政府很努力在做我想這個全台灣的用水我們都會增加相關的調度跟開發新的水源開發新水源也有很多問題謝謝"}]}}}}