{"id":150272,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150272","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc305224c97b8293f752dc469dd78c507e1b3ff8ba9b0039caa7a6f3c949769055490b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:36:38 - 12:42:26","影片長度":"00:05:48","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「加速推動再生能源對國土環境之影響及環境影響評估認定標準修訂進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-7"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":348,"end_time":"2024-03-21T12:42:26+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T12:36:38+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1093,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時36分）謝謝主席，我是不是可以請林全能次長？"],["主席：請林次長。"],["林次長全能：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：林次長，今天談論再生能源這個議題，本席也非常關注，除了環境影響評估以外，更重要的是，我們也希望能夠有更多的再生能源，對我們的能源政策來產生更好的一個影響，雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子裡。本席現在特別關心的是，中研院現在也有講到我們臺灣有適合發展的幾個地方、幾個再生能源的方向，其中一個是地熱能，另一個是海洋能，我覺得這都還不錯，為什麼呢？第一，我們臺灣也是有一些地熱的樣態、溫泉的樣態，還有四面環海，所以如果能夠讓我們取之不盡，用之不竭，對未來的再生能源有一個想像的話，我想這可能會是對我們的能源自給自足有一個更好的方向，次長你同意嗎？"],["林次長全能：我同意，因為基本上隨著科技的發展，事實上再生能源的發展一定是更多元化，現在看到的離岸風力或者是太陽能是成熟了，但是往下走更可以看到我們臺灣天然的地熱資源，透過科技的發展，它應該有更大的發揮機會。"],["洪委員孟楷：對，因為現在大家都提到，不管是太陽能光電板可能在20年之後，突然間會變成很多的廢料，它可能也是一個影響；也看到了風力發電，可能有破壞一些環境等等的影響。本席要提到的是北海岸，在本席的選區內，不管是石門、三芝或者是在過去的12選區萬里、金山甚至到基隆，其實目前都有除役的核能電廠，除役的核能電廠包括核一、核二以及基隆的協和電廠，這三個電廠在不久的將來可能也要轉型或是除役，核一、核二已經除役了，我現在要講的是，有沒有可能針對這個地方去瞭解或是加強，甚至快速的就地熱能或是海洋能去做研究？為什麼這樣講？因為核一、核二廠原本就已經有完整的電網，所以用它來輸電的話，如果在這附近如果有一個再生能源能夠來替換或是利用的話，它的電網不用再重新鋪設，對於全臺的供電或是北臺灣的供電，其實是有幫助的。","再來是北海岸地區，不管是我們的海洋資源，不管是我們的地熱，看起來也都是有這樣一個潛力，次長，本席現在在這邊提，昨天我也在教育及文化委員會有跟中研院做臨時提案，但我是想能不能有更積極的態度，看看我們要怎麼樣去找，不要我們自己好像變成是坐在金山上面的乞丐，明明我們這邊有很好的地熱能、很好的海洋能，但我們卻不知道，反而一味的去鋪電板，這能不能說明一下？"],["林次長全能：謝謝剛剛委員提到幾個目前存在好的電網的地方，能夠來進行更深入的研究、評估，地熱也好，或者是海洋能也好，我想我們應該都有初步的研究計畫可以來做這個事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在只有看到宜蘭有地熱的部分，好像我們台電只有在宜蘭這邊有做。"],["林次長全能：新北那邊也有在做規劃……"],["洪委員孟楷：但是沒有很成熟，或是說沒有很大量，或是沒有投入很多。"],["林次長全能：我記得金山、萬里那邊曾經有投入做探勘，而且有一個類似像示範的計畫在處理中，我想這個部分我們都可以來做更進一步的檢視，看看可不可以加速，往這方面來做更好的一個處理。至於海洋能的部分，可能必須透過所謂的示範，因為畢竟科技的發展上還有一些挑戰，我們可以去做一些比較小型的實驗示範，看看有沒有機會能夠再做更進一步的一個擴大的處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，剛剛本席提到這2點，我覺得這都是我們未來對於再生能源的想像，因為2050淨零碳排即將到來，每一分、每一秒都是挑戰，因為每過一分鐘、每過一秒鐘，其實就離2050越來越近，所以當2050到達的時候，我們不能還是像現在一樣的20、50、30，但是30%的燃煤跟50%的燃氣，等於80%都用火力發電，甚至再生能源如果20%達不到的話，還要用燃氣來做彌補，那就高達八成都是火力發電，因此，我們希望在未來對於子孫、對於我們這一代的人有一個負責跟交代，所以次長你剛才提到不管是小型計畫，不管是什麼的，有沒有比較具體？能不能在1個月內提給本席並告訴本席你未來一年內要投入多少的經費、多少的資源、多少的計畫，在我們北海岸地區能夠找出，不管是海洋能或是地能的探勘，或者是真的去找出可行的能源來對接核一、核二廠已經建好的電網。"],["林次長全能：我想這個部分我們1個月內會提供更詳細的資料給委員您這邊。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們真的希望能投入經費、資源去找，因為我相信這個是投資，這個絕對不是虛應故事，我們如果能夠用投資的角度，找出我們現有的天然資源、海洋能、地熱能都是可以用的話，那我們臺灣以後取之不盡、用之不竭，那都比我們要依靠國外，比我們要依靠天吃飯，來得更加的重要，好，1個月，麻煩次長，謝謝。"],["林次長全能：謝謝。"],["主席：我們謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢。","本日會議詢答全部結束。委員楊曜、蘇清泉、陳冠廷、盧縣一所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員楊曜書面質詢：","一、請經濟部儘速盤點，目前各業者欲申請於澎湖周遭海域設置離岸風電之情形，並督促業者應加強與地方民眾溝通。","問題：早在2021年九月時，我曾召集漁業署，開會要求將「將澎湖海域劃入離岸風電設置排除區域」要求漁業署發函給經濟部，將澎湖海域納入禁制區域內，澎湖海域為全國第二大漁場，漁獲量佔全國二成，假如設置離岸風電機組，一來影響船隻捕撈作業，二來有影響海洋生態之疑慮，為確保漁民生計與漁業永續發展，為此，請經濟部儘速盤點，目前各業者欲申請於澎湖周遭海域設置離岸風電之案件數，並督促業者應加強與地方民眾溝通。","二、環澎2離岸風電環評再審，環境部應洽詢漁業署，確保澎湖漁場不受影響？","問題：有業者提出於澎湖外海於環澎一、三離岸風電位，目前尚在爭取獲配階段，先前三月初於環境部進行環評初審，環評委員針對此案之海纜上岸點位、路線規劃仍有意見，建議補充修正後再審；另外提醒與澎湖漁民等加強溝通。","請問環境部，目前此案進度為何？此案若設置離岸風電後，對澎湖漁場的影響為何？對於澎湖漁場之影響，業者是否有針對此事提出評估報告？本席認為，環境部應請漁業署提出專業意見，避免離岸風電設置後，不利澎湖漁業永續發展，連帶影響漁民生計。","三、我國推動再生能源政策如火如荼持續推展，環境部對於綠能產業的事業廢棄物各項回收管道及業者處理量能是否足以因應？","問題：據經濟部資料指出，我國近5年再生能源裝置容量平均年增21.9%，成長速度高於全球平均，2022年我國總發電量為2,882億度，其中為配合「減煤、增氣、展綠、非核」之能源轉型政策，再生能源發電量突破200億度，2022年達238億度，年增36.2%，占總發電量比重為8.3%，近5年再生能源發電量平均年成長14.0%，其中受惠政府與民間合力推動綠能發展，太陽光電及離岸風電分別平均年增45.0%及135.0%，成長最為快速，為我國再生能源成長之主要貢獻來源，又政府也持續推動電動車政策，如電動機車及電動公車，在政府大力推動綠能產業的情形下，產業的事業廢棄物或者是一般民眾汰換電動車的電池等廢棄物，勢必會大幅增加，請教環境部，對於綠能產業的事業廢棄物各項回收管道及業者處理量能是否足以因應？如有不足之處，環境部如何因應？是否列為強制回收項目？如何避免綠能產業廢棄物造成環境污染？","四、針對開發行為環境品質現況調查表的社會經濟類別，調查項目中包括農漁業現況，但並未評估開發行為是否將影響農漁業。","問題：根據《環境影響評估法》規定，開發行為對環境有不良影響之虞者，應實施環境影響評估，又其認定標準等則訂於《開發行為環境影響評估作業準則》中，從開發行為環境品質現況調查表可得知，社會經濟類別，調查項目中包括農漁業現況，但調查方法僅為既有資料蒐集，並未要求開發實施者評估開發行為是否將影響農漁業，本席認為此調查方法過於草率，必須評估此開發行為對於農漁業影響為何，請問環境部，未來是否修正《開發行為環境影響評估作業準則》，將開發行為對農漁業影響也一併納入調查方法中，以維護農漁民生計權益。"],["委員蘇清泉書面質詢：","光電進駐屏東，種電範圍遍及農地、山區到有文資價值的二戰遺跡，造成家園地景地貌變遷，衝擊老農生計、變相迫遷青農，更被地方形容為「惡鄰」，產生蛇鼠與害蟲，提升鄰田管理困難度，還潛藏糧食危機。在這些衝突的背後，是減碳期程產生急迫的空間需求、綠電被地方視為干擾環境景觀或與農爭地的鄰避設施、以及仍不明確的能源部門發展策略，使其無法與其他部門的發展策略有效整合協調。對此，環境部是否與相關部會做過協調？對環境影響，是否因為減碳時程的實施而被迫犧牲？","過去70年全國開發的產業園區的面積，加總起來大約是7萬公頃，但是2050年再生能源80GW的總目標，若直接換算成地面型光電，大約是8萬公頃。這比產業園區面積還大，這不是小數字，對環境的影響環境部是否做過評估？","2016年政府提出再生能源要在2025年佔比20%的目標，但直到2022年底，才從4.8%增加到8%。環境部是否評估過，如果為了實現上述目標，未經過審慎評估，是否將對環境產生危害？","環境部是否有審查光電對環境影響的機制？還是讓地方政府各行其是？","這有沒有事先考慮到國土條件是否足夠支持？要佈建在哪裡？會不會有衝突？衝突可以如何處理？各部會有不同業務邏輯，就容易依據自身邏輯找地而導致衝突。","環境部是否有要盤點各部門的再生能源空間政策，協助解決能源發展的空間衝突？","能源設施用地選址的整體框架，是第一個要處理的課題，因為全國土地使用目標與背後價值觀念有眾多衝突或缺失，且中央與地方發展目標想像也有衝突。這個環境部有意識到嗎？","我們屏東鄉親對於光電對農地的影響擔憂，就是源於光電對環境影響的擔憂，目前環境部是否有與地方政府的協調機制？如何協調？"],["委員陳冠廷書面質詢：","議程：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「加速推動再生能源對國土環境之影響及環境影響評估認定標準修訂進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢。","一、離岸風機與環境","（環境部）部長您好，近年台灣發展離岸風電方興未艾，卻同時在環境與經濟上卻遇到許多問題。本席認為政府應該利用跨部會的力量，在再生能源、環境保護與漁民權益上達成平衡，因此想針對離岸風機與環境保護的問題來請教環境部。","首先，離岸風機在建設的過程中會影響海洋的水文、生態、地質樣貌等等，而且可能會影響傳統的人工魚礁。","我想請教，除了目前既有的環評程序以外，後續環境部與相關單位要如何去追蹤離岸風電對於海洋環境的影響？","同時，近期有新聞指出，有離岸風電開發商認為台灣的環評程序相較部分先進國家而言更為繁瑣。","由於建置離岸風電的初期投入大量成本的同時，最後結果反而可能會是竹籃打水一場空。今年2月6日環境部公告《離岸風電環評》初審新制，本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0.982}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 48.884, \"end\": 49.585, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 49.585, \"end\": 49.666, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 49.666, \"end\": 50.367, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 50.367, \"end\": 50.587, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 50.587, \"end\": 50.968, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 50.968, \"end\": 51.649, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 51.649, \"end\": 51.869, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 51.869, \"end\": 52.25, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 52.25, \"end\": 52.39, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 52.39, \"end\": 52.41, \"score\": 0.994}]}, {\"start\": 53.271, \"end\": 71.139, \"text\": \"我們台灣也是有一些這個地熱的一個樣態溫泉的樣態那還有四面環海所以如果說能夠讓我們有取之不清用之不絕未來的再生能源想像的話我想這可能會是對我們的能源自給自足有更好的方向次長你同意嗎\", \"words\": 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\"end\": 68.378, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 68.378, \"end\": 68.698, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 68.698, \"end\": 68.838, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 68.838, \"end\": 69.018, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 69.018, \"end\": 69.158, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 69.158, \"end\": 69.278, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 69.278, \"end\": 69.438, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 69.438, \"end\": 69.558, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 69.558, \"end\": 69.758, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 69.758, \"end\": 70.659, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 70.659, \"end\": 70.879, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 70.879, \"end\": 70.979, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 70.979, \"end\": 71.119, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 71.119, \"end\": 71.139, \"score\": 0.314}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 71.659, \"end\": 98.999, \"text\": \"我同意因為基本上就是隨著科技的發展事實上能源再生能源的一個發展它一定是更多元化那現在是看到離岸風力或者是那個這個太陽能是成熟了但是往下走更看到我們臺灣的這個天然的一個這個地熱的資源透過科技的發展它應該有更大的發揮對因為現在大家都提到是說不管是太陽能光電板它可能20年之後突然間這個很多的廢料它可能也是一個影響\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 71.659, \"end\": 71.799, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 71.799, \"end\": 72.019, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 72.019, \"end\": 72.22, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 72.22, \"end\": 72.6, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 72.6, \"end\": 72.72, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 72.72, \"end\": 72.88, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 72.88, \"end\": 73.14, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 73.14, \"end\": 73.28, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 73.28, \"end\": 73.681, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"隨\"}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 73.681, \"end\": 73.821, 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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 87.09, \"end\": 87.23, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 87.23, \"end\": 87.45, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.45, \"end\": 87.55, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 87.55, \"end\": 88.111, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 88.111, \"end\": 88.351, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"熱\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 88.351, \"end\": 88.691, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 88.691, \"end\": 89.212, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 89.212, \"end\": 89.472, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 89.472, \"end\": 89.672, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 89.672, \"end\": 89.792, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 89.792, \"end\": 90.092, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 335.92, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"孟\", \"start\": 335.92, \"end\": 335.94, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 335.94, \"end\": 336.04, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 336.04, \"end\": 336.06, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 336.06, \"end\": 336.08, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,052 --> 00:00:12,534\n主席,謝謝。我是不是可以請林全仁次長。好,來,請林次長。好,林次長。\n\n2\n00:00:18,922 --> 00:00:37,447\n我想再生能源今天談論這個議題本席也非常關注那除了說環境影響評估以外更重要是我們也希望能夠有更多的再生能源來去對我們的能源政策來產生更好的一個影響雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子裡那本席現在特別關心就是\n\n3\n00:00:38,688 --> 00:00:52,410\n針對中研院他現在有講到是說我們台灣有適合發展的幾個地方幾個能源再生能源的方向其中一個是地熱能跟一個是海洋能我覺得這都是還不錯為什麼呢第一\n\n4\n00:00:53,271 --> 00:01:11,139\n我們台灣也是有一些這個地熱的一個樣態溫泉的樣態那還有四面環海所以如果說能夠讓我們有取之不清用之不絕未來的再生能源想像的話我想這可能會是對我們的能源自給自足有更好的方向次長你同意嗎\n\n5\n00:01:11,659 --> 00:01:38,999\n我同意因為基本上就是隨著科技的發展事實上能源再生能源的一個發展它一定是更多元化那現在是看到離岸風力或者是那個這個太陽能是成熟了但是往下走更看到我們臺灣的這個天然的一個這個地熱的資源透過科技的發展它應該有更大的發揮對因為現在大家都提到是說不管是太陽能光電板它可能20年之後突然間這個很多的廢料它可能也是一個影響\n\n6\n00:01:39,679 --> 00:01:55,802\n那也看到了這個風力發電它可能有破壞一些這個環境等等部分好本期要提到的是北海岸本期的一個選區不管是石門、山芝或者是在過去12選區萬里、金山甚至到基隆其實目前都有廚藝的核能電廠\n\n7\n00:01:56,903 --> 00:01:57,043\n為什麽這樣講：因為\n\n8\n00:02:19,221 --> 00:02:44,481\n合一合二廠原本他就已經有完整的電網所以說他要去輸電如果說在這附近裡面有一個再生能源能夠來替換或是利用的話他的電網不用再重新鋪設對於我們的供電全台的供電或是北台灣供電其實是有幫助的再來是如果說北海岸地區不管是我們的海洋資源不管是我們的地熱看起來也都是有這樣的一個潛力\n\n9\n00:02:45,402 --> 00:03:07,294\n所以市長本席這邊現在在提昨天我也在教育文化委員會有跟中研院有做臨時提案但我想說能不能有更積極的態度我們怎麼樣去找不要我們自己好像變成是坐在金山上面的乞丐就明明我們這邊有很好的地熱能很好的這個海洋能但我們不知道那我們反而一味的去鋪電板\n\n10\n00:03:10,142 --> 00:03:31,628\n能不能說明一下我想謝謝剛剛那個委員提到的幾個目前有存在好的電網的地方能夠來進行更深入的研究評估那地熱也好或者是海洋冷也好我想我們應該都有初步的研究計畫可以來做這個事情之前我現在只有看到地熱的部分只有在宜蘭\n\n11\n00:03:32,628 --> 00:03:58,951\n好像我們台電只有在宜蘭這邊有做新北那邊也有在做所以是沒有很成熟或說沒有很大量我記得金山萬里那邊曾經投入做探勘而且有一個類似像示範的計畫在處理中那我想這個部分我們都可以來做更進一步的檢視看看可不可以加速往這方面來做更好的一個這個處理那至於海洋能源部分可能必須透過示範因為畢竟這個科技的發展還有一些挑戰\n\n12\n00:03:59,631 --> 00:04:24,973\n那我們可以去做一些比較小型的實驗示範看看有沒有機會能夠再做更進一步的一個擴大的出入剛剛本席提到這兩點我覺得這都是我們未來對於再生能源的想像尤其是2050淨零碳排即將到每一分每一秒都是挑戰因為每過一分鐘每過一秒鐘其實就離2050越來越近所以當2050到達的時候我們不能還是像現在一樣\n\n13\n00:04:25,613 --> 00:04:53,041\n二十五十三十但是三十的燃煤五十的燃氣百分之八十都用火力發電甚至再生能源如果20%達不到的話還要用燃氣來做彌補那就高達八成都是火力發電我想這是我們希望在未來對於子孫對於我們這一代人的一個負責跟交代所以市長你剛有提到不管是小型的計畫不管是什麼有沒有比較具體能不能在一個月內給本席告訴本席說你未來一年內\n\n14\n00:04:54,241 --> 00:05:09,933\n要投入多少的經費多少的資源多少的計劃在我們北海岸地區能夠找不管是海洋能或是地能的這個探勘或者是說真的去找出可行的能源來去對接合一合二場已經建好的電網\n\n15\n00:05:10,774 --> 00:05:34,679\n好我想這個部分我們一個月內會提供更詳細的資料給委員您這邊好我們真的是希望是說要投入經費資源去找因為我相信這個是投資啊這個絕對不是虛擬故事我們如果說能夠用投資的角度找出我們現有的天然資源海洋能、地能、地熱能都是可以用的話那我們台灣以後取之不盡、用之不絕\n\n16\n00:05:35,419 --> 00:05:36,080\n好我們謝謝洪孟楷委員的資訊\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8052\t12534\t主席,謝謝。我是不是可以請林全仁次長。好,來,請林次長。好,林次長。\n18922\t37447\t我想再生能源今天談論這個議題本席也非常關注那除了說環境影響評估以外更重要是我們也希望能夠有更多的再生能源來去對我們的能源政策來產生更好的一個影響雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子裡那本席現在特別關心就是\n38688\t52410\t針對中研院他現在有講到是說我們台灣有適合發展的幾個地方幾個能源再生能源的方向其中一個是地熱能跟一個是海洋能我覺得這都是還不錯為什麼呢第一\n53271\t71139\t我們台灣也是有一些這個地熱的一個樣態溫泉的樣態那還有四面環海所以如果說能夠讓我們有取之不清用之不絕未來的再生能源想像的話我想這可能會是對我們的能源自給自足有更好的方向次長你同意嗎\n71659\t98999\t我同意因為基本上就是隨著科技的發展事實上能源再生能源的一個發展它一定是更多元化那現在是看到離岸風力或者是那個這個太陽能是成熟了但是往下走更看到我們臺灣的這個天然的一個這個地熱的資源透過科技的發展它應該有更大的發揮對因為現在大家都提到是說不管是太陽能光電板它可能20年之後突然間這個很多的廢料它可能也是一個影響\n99679\t115802\t那也看到了這個風力發電它可能有破壞一些這個環境等等部分好本期要提到的是北海岸本期的一個選區不管是石門、山芝或者是在過去12選區萬里、金山甚至到基隆其實目前都有廚藝的核能電廠\n116903\t117043\t為什麽這樣講：因為\n139221\t164481\t合一合二廠原本他就已經有完整的電網所以說他要去輸電如果說在這附近裡面有一個再生能源能夠來替換或是利用的話他的電網不用再重新鋪設對於我們的供電全台的供電或是北台灣供電其實是有幫助的再來是如果說北海岸地區不管是我們的海洋資源不管是我們的地熱看起來也都是有這樣的一個潛力\n165402\t187294\t所以市長本席這邊現在在提昨天我也在教育文化委員會有跟中研院有做臨時提案但我想說能不能有更積極的態度我們怎麼樣去找不要我們自己好像變成是坐在金山上面的乞丐就明明我們這邊有很好的地熱能很好的這個海洋能但我們不知道那我們反而一味的去鋪電板\n190142\t211628\t能不能說明一下我想謝謝剛剛那個委員提到的幾個目前有存在好的電網的地方能夠來進行更深入的研究評估那地熱也好或者是海洋冷也好我想我們應該都有初步的研究計畫可以來做這個事情之前我現在只有看到地熱的部分只有在宜蘭\n212628\t238951\t好像我們台電只有在宜蘭這邊有做新北那邊也有在做所以是沒有很成熟或說沒有很大量我記得金山萬里那邊曾經投入做探勘而且有一個類似像示範的計畫在處理中那我想這個部分我們都可以來做更進一步的檢視看看可不可以加速往這方面來做更好的一個這個處理那至於海洋能源部分可能必須透過示範因為畢竟這個科技的發展還有一些挑戰\n239631\t264973\t那我們可以去做一些比較小型的實驗示範看看有沒有機會能夠再做更進一步的一個擴大的出入剛剛本席提到這兩點我覺得這都是我們未來對於再生能源的想像尤其是2050淨零碳排即將到每一分每一秒都是挑戰因為每過一分鐘每過一秒鐘其實就離2050越來越近所以當2050到達的時候我們不能還是像現在一樣\n265613\t293041\t二十五十三十但是三十的燃煤五十的燃氣百分之八十都用火力發電甚至再生能源如果20%達不到的話還要用燃氣來做彌補那就高達八成都是火力發電我想這是我們希望在未來對於子孫對於我們這一代人的一個負責跟交代所以市長你剛有提到不管是小型的計畫不管是什麼有沒有比較具體能不能在一個月內給本席告訴本席說你未來一年內\n294241\t309933\t要投入多少的經費多少的資源多少的計劃在我們北海岸地區能夠找不管是海洋能或是地能的這個探勘或者是說真的去找出可行的能源來去對接合一合二場已經建好的電網\n310774\t334679\t好我想這個部分我們一個月內會提供更詳細的資料給委員您這邊好我們真的是希望是說要投入經費資源去找因為我相信這個是投資啊這個絕對不是虛擬故事我們如果說能夠用投資的角度找出我們現有的天然資源海洋能、地能、地熱能都是可以用的話那我們台灣以後取之不盡、用之不絕\n335419\t336080\t好 我們謝謝洪孟楷委員的資訊\n","txt":"主席,謝謝。我是不是可以請林全仁次長。好,來,請林次長。好,林次長。\n我想再生能源今天談論這個議題本席也非常關注那除了說環境影響評估以外更重要是我們也希望能夠有更多的再生能源來去對我們的能源政策來產生更好的一個影響雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子裡那本席現在特別關心就是\n針對中研院他現在有講到是說我們台灣有適合發展的幾個地方幾個能源再生能源的方向其中一個是地熱能跟一個是海洋能我覺得這都是還不錯為什麼呢第一\n我們台灣也是有一些這個地熱的一個樣態溫泉的樣態那還有四面環海所以如果說能夠讓我們有取之不清用之不絕未來的再生能源想像的話我想這可能會是對我們的能源自給自足有更好的方向次長你同意嗎\n我同意因為基本上就是隨著科技的發展事實上能源再生能源的一個發展它一定是更多元化那現在是看到離岸風力或者是那個這個太陽能是成熟了但是往下走更看到我們臺灣的這個天然的一個這個地熱的資源透過科技的發展它應該有更大的發揮對因為現在大家都提到是說不管是太陽能光電板它可能20年之後突然間這個很多的廢料它可能也是一個影響\n那也看到了這個風力發電它可能有破壞一些這個環境等等部分好本期要提到的是北海岸本期的一個選區不管是石門、山芝或者是在過去12選區萬里、金山甚至到基隆其實目前都有廚藝的核能電廠\n為什麽這樣講：因為\n合一合二廠原本他就已經有完整的電網所以說他要去輸電如果說在這附近裡面有一個再生能源能夠來替換或是利用的話他的電網不用再重新鋪設對於我們的供電全台的供電或是北台灣供電其實是有幫助的再來是如果說北海岸地區不管是我們的海洋資源不管是我們的地熱看起來也都是有這樣的一個潛力\n所以市長本席這邊現在在提昨天我也在教育文化委員會有跟中研院有做臨時提案但我想說能不能有更積極的態度我們怎麼樣去找不要我們自己好像變成是坐在金山上面的乞丐就明明我們這邊有很好的地熱能很好的這個海洋能但我們不知道那我們反而一味的去鋪電板\n能不能說明一下我想謝謝剛剛那個委員提到的幾個目前有存在好的電網的地方能夠來進行更深入的研究評估那地熱也好或者是海洋冷也好我想我們應該都有初步的研究計畫可以來做這個事情之前我現在只有看到地熱的部分只有在宜蘭\n好像我們台電只有在宜蘭這邊有做新北那邊也有在做所以是沒有很成熟或說沒有很大量我記得金山萬里那邊曾經投入做探勘而且有一個類似像示範的計畫在處理中那我想這個部分我們都可以來做更進一步的檢視看看可不可以加速往這方面來做更好的一個這個處理那至於海洋能源部分可能必須透過示範因為畢竟這個科技的發展還有一些挑戰\n那我們可以去做一些比較小型的實驗示範看看有沒有機會能夠再做更進一步的一個擴大的出入剛剛本席提到這兩點我覺得這都是我們未來對於再生能源的想像尤其是2050淨零碳排即將到每一分每一秒都是挑戰因為每過一分鐘每過一秒鐘其實就離2050越來越近所以當2050到達的時候我們不能還是像現在一樣\n二十五十三十但是三十的燃煤五十的燃氣百分之八十都用火力發電甚至再生能源如果20%達不到的話還要用燃氣來做彌補那就高達八成都是火力發電我想這是我們希望在未來對於子孫對於我們這一代人的一個負責跟交代所以市長你剛有提到不管是小型的計畫不管是什麼有沒有比較具體能不能在一個月內給本席告訴本席說你未來一年內\n要投入多少的經費多少的資源多少的計劃在我們北海岸地區能夠找不管是海洋能或是地能的這個探勘或者是說真的去找出可行的能源來去對接合一合二場已經建好的電網\n好我想這個部分我們一個月內會提供更詳細的資料給委員您這邊好我們真的是希望是說要投入經費資源去找因為我相信這個是投資啊這個絕對不是虛擬故事我們如果說能夠用投資的角度找出我們現有的天然資源海洋能、地能、地熱能都是可以用的話那我們台灣以後取之不盡、用之不絕\n好 我們謝謝洪孟楷委員的資訊\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.052 --> 00:12.534\n主席,謝謝。我是不是可以請林全仁次長。好,來,請林次長。好,林次長。\n\n00:18.922 --> 00:37.447\n我想再生能源今天談論這個議題本席也非常關注那除了說環境影響評估以外更重要是我們也希望能夠有更多的再生能源來去對我們的能源政策來產生更好的一個影響雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子裡那本席現在特別關心就是\n\n00:38.688 --> 00:52.410\n針對中研院他現在有講到是說我們台灣有適合發展的幾個地方幾個能源再生能源的方向其中一個是地熱能跟一個是海洋能我覺得這都是還不錯為什麼呢第一\n\n00:53.271 --> 01:11.139\n我們台灣也是有一些這個地熱的一個樣態溫泉的樣態那還有四面環海所以如果說能夠讓我們有取之不清用之不絕未來的再生能源想像的話我想這可能會是對我們的能源自給自足有更好的方向次長你同意嗎\n\n01:11.659 --> 01:38.999\n我同意因為基本上就是隨著科技的發展事實上能源再生能源的一個發展它一定是更多元化那現在是看到離岸風力或者是那個這個太陽能是成熟了但是往下走更看到我們臺灣的這個天然的一個這個地熱的資源透過科技的發展它應該有更大的發揮對因為現在大家都提到是說不管是太陽能光電板它可能20年之後突然間這個很多的廢料它可能也是一個影響\n\n01:39.679 --> 01:55.802\n那也看到了這個風力發電它可能有破壞一些這個環境等等部分好本期要提到的是北海岸本期的一個選區不管是石門、山芝或者是在過去12選區萬里、金山甚至到基隆其實目前都有廚藝的核能電廠\n\n01:56.903 --> 01:57.043\n為什麽這樣講：因為\n\n02:19.221 --> 02:44.481\n合一合二廠原本他就已經有完整的電網所以說他要去輸電如果說在這附近裡面有一個再生能源能夠來替換或是利用的話他的電網不用再重新鋪設對於我們的供電全台的供電或是北台灣供電其實是有幫助的再來是如果說北海岸地區不管是我們的海洋資源不管是我們的地熱看起來也都是有這樣的一個潛力\n\n02:45.402 --> 03:07.294\n所以市長本席這邊現在在提昨天我也在教育文化委員會有跟中研院有做臨時提案但我想說能不能有更積極的態度我們怎麼樣去找不要我們自己好像變成是坐在金山上面的乞丐就明明我們這邊有很好的地熱能很好的這個海洋能但我們不知道那我們反而一味的去鋪電板\n\n03:10.142 --> 03:31.628\n能不能說明一下我想謝謝剛剛那個委員提到的幾個目前有存在好的電網的地方能夠來進行更深入的研究評估那地熱也好或者是海洋冷也好我想我們應該都有初步的研究計畫可以來做這個事情之前我現在只有看到地熱的部分只有在宜蘭\n\n03:32.628 --> 03:58.951\n好像我們台電只有在宜蘭這邊有做新北那邊也有在做所以是沒有很成熟或說沒有很大量我記得金山萬里那邊曾經投入做探勘而且有一個類似像示範的計畫在處理中那我想這個部分我們都可以來做更進一步的檢視看看可不可以加速往這方面來做更好的一個這個處理那至於海洋能源部分可能必須透過示範因為畢竟這個科技的發展還有一些挑戰\n\n03:59.631 --> 04:24.973\n那我們可以去做一些比較小型的實驗示範看看有沒有機會能夠再做更進一步的一個擴大的出入剛剛本席提到這兩點我覺得這都是我們未來對於再生能源的想像尤其是2050淨零碳排即將到每一分每一秒都是挑戰因為每過一分鐘每過一秒鐘其實就離2050越來越近所以當2050到達的時候我們不能還是像現在一樣\n\n04:25.613 --> 04:53.041\n二十五十三十但是三十的燃煤五十的燃氣百分之八十都用火力發電甚至再生能源如果20%達不到的話還要用燃氣來做彌補那就高達八成都是火力發電我想這是我們希望在未來對於子孫對於我們這一代人的一個負責跟交代所以市長你剛有提到不管是小型的計畫不管是什麼有沒有比較具體能不能在一個月內給本席告訴本席說你未來一年內\n\n04:54.241 --> 05:09.933\n要投入多少的經費多少的資源多少的計劃在我們北海岸地區能夠找不管是海洋能或是地能的這個探勘或者是說真的去找出可行的能源來去對接合一合二場已經建好的電網\n\n05:10.774 --> 05:34.679\n好我想這個部分我們一個月內會提供更詳細的資料給委員您這邊好我們真的是希望是說要投入經費資源去找因為我相信這個是投資啊這個絕對不是虛擬故事我們如果說能夠用投資的角度找出我們現有的天然資源海洋能、地能、地熱能都是可以用的話那我們台灣以後取之不盡、用之不絕\n\n05:35.419 --> 05:36.080\n好我們謝謝洪孟楷委員的資訊\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.052,"end":12.534,"text":"主席,謝謝。我是不是可以請林全仁次長。好,來,請林次長。好,林次長。"},{"start":18.922,"end":37.447,"text":"我想再生能源今天談論這個議題本席也非常關注那除了說環境影響評估以外更重要是我們也希望能夠有更多的再生能源來去對我們的能源政策來產生更好的一個影響雞蛋不要放在同一個籃子裡那本席現在特別關心就是"},{"start":38.688,"end":52.41,"text":"針對中研院他現在有講到是說我們台灣有適合發展的幾個地方幾個能源再生能源的方向其中一個是地熱能跟一個是海洋能我覺得這都是還不錯為什麼呢第一"},{"start":53.271,"end":71.139,"text":"我們台灣也是有一些這個地熱的一個樣態溫泉的樣態那還有四面環海所以如果說能夠讓我們有取之不清用之不絕未來的再生能源想像的話我想這可能會是對我們的能源自給自足有更好的方向次長你同意嗎"},{"start":71.659,"end":98.999,"text":"我同意因為基本上就是隨著科技的發展事實上能源再生能源的一個發展它一定是更多元化那現在是看到離岸風力或者是那個這個太陽能是成熟了但是往下走更看到我們臺灣的這個天然的一個這個地熱的資源透過科技的發展它應該有更大的發揮對因為現在大家都提到是說不管是太陽能光電板它可能20年之後突然間這個很多的廢料它可能也是一個影響"},{"start":99.679,"end":115.802,"text":"那也看到了這個風力發電它可能有破壞一些這個環境等等部分好本期要提到的是北海岸本期的一個選區不管是石門、山芝或者是在過去12選區萬里、金山甚至到基隆其實目前都有廚藝的核能電廠"},{"start":116.903,"end":117.043,"text":"為什麽這樣講：因為"},{"start":139.221,"end":164.481,"text":"合一合二廠原本他就已經有完整的電網所以說他要去輸電如果說在這附近裡面有一個再生能源能夠來替換或是利用的話他的電網不用再重新鋪設對於我們的供電全台的供電或是北台灣供電其實是有幫助的再來是如果說北海岸地區不管是我們的海洋資源不管是我們的地熱看起來也都是有這樣的一個潛力"},{"start":165.402,"end":187.294,"text":"所以市長本席這邊現在在提昨天我也在教育文化委員會有跟中研院有做臨時提案但我想說能不能有更積極的態度我們怎麼樣去找不要我們自己好像變成是坐在金山上面的乞丐就明明我們這邊有很好的地熱能很好的這個海洋能但我們不知道那我們反而一味的去鋪電板"},{"start":190.142,"end":211.628,"text":"能不能說明一下我想謝謝剛剛那個委員提到的幾個目前有存在好的電網的地方能夠來進行更深入的研究評估那地熱也好或者是海洋冷也好我想我們應該都有初步的研究計畫可以來做這個事情之前我現在只有看到地熱的部分只有在宜蘭"},{"start":212.628,"end":238.951,"text":"好像我們台電只有在宜蘭這邊有做新北那邊也有在做所以是沒有很成熟或說沒有很大量我記得金山萬里那邊曾經投入做探勘而且有一個類似像示範的計畫在處理中那我想這個部分我們都可以來做更進一步的檢視看看可不可以加速往這方面來做更好的一個這個處理那至於海洋能源部分可能必須透過示範因為畢竟這個科技的發展還有一些挑戰"},{"start":239.631,"end":264.973,"text":"那我們可以去做一些比較小型的實驗示範看看有沒有機會能夠再做更進一步的一個擴大的出入剛剛本席提到這兩點我覺得這都是我們未來對於再生能源的想像尤其是2050淨零碳排即將到每一分每一秒都是挑戰因為每過一分鐘每過一秒鐘其實就離2050越來越近所以當2050到達的時候我們不能還是像現在一樣"},{"start":265.613,"end":293.041,"text":"二十五十三十但是三十的燃煤五十的燃氣百分之八十都用火力發電甚至再生能源如果20%達不到的話還要用燃氣來做彌補那就高達八成都是火力發電我想這是我們希望在未來對於子孫對於我們這一代人的一個負責跟交代所以市長你剛有提到不管是小型的計畫不管是什麼有沒有比較具體能不能在一個月內給本席告訴本席說你未來一年內"},{"start":294.241,"end":309.933,"text":"要投入多少的經費多少的資源多少的計劃在我們北海岸地區能夠找不管是海洋能或是地能的這個探勘或者是說真的去找出可行的能源來去對接合一合二場已經建好的電網"},{"start":310.774,"end":334.679,"text":"好我想這個部分我們一個月內會提供更詳細的資料給委員您這邊好我們真的是希望是說要投入經費資源去找因為我相信這個是投資啊這個絕對不是虛擬故事我們如果說能夠用投資的角度找出我們現有的天然資源海洋能、地能、地熱能都是可以用的話那我們台灣以後取之不盡、用之不絕"},{"start":335.419,"end":336.08,"text":"好 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