{"id":150277,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150277","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30529e4d2a8cb3c9ed72e8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a6bb574d15a1fc2d705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"12:42:43 - 12:52:39","影片長度":"00:09:56","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-4"},"date":"2024-03-21","duration":596,"end_time":"2024-03-21T12:52:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-21T12:42:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1282,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（12時42分）謝謝主席，有請部長跟署長。"],["主席：有請兩位，謝謝。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長好，剛才聽了覺得很「厭氣」，不過剛剛陳冠廷委員已經大概講了，水源地就是在嘉義，雖然是「部分」，但是超過百分之六十以上，尤其梅山跟阿里山，湖山水庫的水源就是嘉義來的，過去因為進到湖山水庫，所以雲林用是大宗，事實上就是周邊的區域在使用，怎麼可以全部就變「喇天」！用的習慣就變「喇天」！這樣很不對。這一次利用好像台積電設址在嘉義，就是用了雲林的水，這目的在幹嘛？製造仇恨耶！製造雲林跟嘉義的對立！有必要這樣嗎？本來整個水源由經濟部統一調撥，就像剛剛說的，曾文水庫在大埔，在水源地的自然有一個痛苦，在於當地是水源保護區，自然有土地利用的管制，所以這都是大家共同面對的狀況，所以曾文水庫的水全國調撥主要供給南科用，都是很健康的，怎麼可以現在說湖山水庫庫址在雲林，就說全部都是雲林的，這什麼道理啊？"],["王部長美花：是，我覺得水確實要全臺灣來調度，對我們現在來講，特別是珍珠串計畫更是，我們更會把它從臺北的地方……"],["蔡委員易餘：對，未來的珍珠串計畫就是可以把水調度的更加……"],["王部長美花：對，一直往南調度。"],["蔡委員易餘：一直更順暢的調度。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以我再進一步的請教，剛剛講的就算了，我覺得雲林沒有必要再糾結這一點。這一次台積電封測廠，經濟部現在在規劃所謂的再生水，再生水我一直覺得對於未來整個居民、縣民的環境是一個很好的改善。目前想請教部長，你們現在規劃的再生水，它所謂的接管，就是跟民生用水和其他的一些污水，接管範圍到底是多大？"],["賴署長建信：現在是以擴大限制這個0.45為主，其他部分……"],["蔡委員易餘：你們不會只有限制特區吧？"],["賴署長建信：不會。"],["蔡委員易餘：到底會多大？"],["賴署長建信：應該是整個市區民生的接管率比較完善，水源量比較穩定。那嘉義縣這種……"],["蔡委員易餘：我現在講的都是算市區，你也知道嘉義的市區不像都市，我們都是一個部落一個部落，所以到底你們會到怎樣的部落範圍？站在我的期待，我希望這個範圍愈大愈好。"],["賴署長建信：這個當然是沒有問題，包括高鐵的特定區，包括太保的都市計畫區，這些都涵蓋在裡面。"],["蔡委員易餘：如果只有高鐵跟太保的都市計畫區，範圍還沒有那麼大，範圍還不夠。因為太保也有分為東太保跟西太保，我是想說如果範圍可以到達東太保，因為東太保才是目前太保人口最稠密的地方，既然是人口多的地方，表示那邊可以撿集的水自然比較多，但是那邊比較遠，所以我覺得你們在考慮時，可以把整個太保都納進來。"],["賴署長建信：我們再生水會儘量擴大使用，除此之外，若是因為路線的關係，我們還有代履行的機制，這部分都有完善的配套。"],["蔡委員易餘：這個範圍我希望未來你們開會的時候，可以再聽一些我們地方的建議，畢竟我們對於哪個地方的生活區會有這個需求，是可以再提供一點建議的。","第二個問題就是關於土方，目前我們知道嘉義科學園區在規劃上必須要將它的底層墊高，而且是用200年的防洪標準，所以它大概需要一些土方。這些土方的來源，我可以具體建議，「摸蛤仔兼洗褲」，去年發生的八掌溪議題，還有水上鄉的鄉親過世，大家很難過，所以我們都在急著處理八掌溪兩側的疏濬。目前我初步跟五河局聊天的時候，他給我一個數據我不知道精不精準，那裡需要疏濬的可能還有500萬方，是很大、很多的，很難去化。我最近也一直跟台糖溝通，能不能先把土暫置在台糖，或是我們去幫台糖地勢低的地方做土壤改良，這個溝通也是一點點一點點的去化。現在難得有這個機會，如果這些土方可以進入未來國科會嘉義科學園需的土方，那這就100分！"],["賴署長建信：這個沒有問題，過去在科學園區的開發，現在既有的科學園區我們就是用這個模式，除了河川的清淤之外，水庫的清淤也是一個來源，當然以就近為主。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，以就近為主。我現在比較擔心的是，目前站在水利署的考量會覺得我去使用水庫的的土方，那一些錢會由前瞻計畫來補助運費，你也知道，土方最嚴重的就是這些運費嘛。"],["賴署長建信：不會，委員，摸蛤仔兼洗褲，我們在嘉義清的，就近可以擴大通……然後又可以增加科學園區的建設，這當然是最好的。"],["蔡委員易餘：當然最好嘛。"],["賴署長建信：我剛剛講的是水庫的部分……"],["蔡委員易餘：事實上，我也在替你們考量啦，因為過去你們在做曾文水庫、白河水庫的清淤，會有前瞻預算來做它背後的一個挹注，所以運費沒有動到你們的本預算，但是未來八掌溪的清淤可不可以比照當時水庫清淤的辦法？這個部分目前我不知道，我擔心的就是，這樣會不會變成一個排擠效應？還是沒關係，你們覺得你們的預算足夠了？"],["賴署長建信：這個基本上，我們現在清淤的地方是載到更遠去了，如果要放到嘉義科學園區的話……"],["蔡委員易餘：最近！"],["賴署長建信：因為它更近……"],["蔡委員易餘：剛好就在旁邊，剛好是最近，所以站在節省運費、減少支出的立場是最好的？"],["賴署長建信：我們搞不好出帳會減少。"],["蔡委員易餘：好不好？所以我們應該是儘量使用這裡的土方，好不好？","第二個，因為我們現在一直在討論疏濬的工作，所以我事實上也有在關心我們嘉義有一個鹿寮水庫，這個鹿寮水庫的疏濬什麼時候會開始進行呢？鹿寮水庫都是提供農用而已。"],["賴署長建信：跟委員報告，去年差不多在10月的時候你也有質詢過，現在我們有做過評估，鹿寮水庫的話，除了清淤之外，它還要一些水源的計畫，它可能必須要從澐水溪這邊過來，我們現在初步的規劃，它的總經費大概將近、差不多70億左右，這個部分我覺得，當然庫容要把它恢復起來，可能還是要把它疏超過300萬立方左右，我們希望這整體的計畫可以清了庫容，又可以找到新的水源，又可以對區域裡面有更大的幫助。我這邊再次的跟委員說明，目前為止，嘉義並沒有缺水，供給量遠遠大於需求量。"],["蔡委員易餘：對。"],["賴署長建信：我們的供給量是36萬，現在需求量是27萬，還有很大的空間。當然我們需要調度跟備援來因應氣候變遷，甚至我們需要科技造水，包括再生水，甚至符合ESG的、對於產業都有幫助的，把一滴水當成兩滴使用，這個是我們要做的方向。"],["蔡委員易餘：署長，你說的很好，你講的話真的很重要，就是湖山水庫的水對我們嘉科來說，它其實是備用水，也不是百分之百要去用它的水，事實上我們嘉義的水源就是夠啊。第二個就是再生水，這個對我們嘉義來說，改善了我們整個用水，一些水污染的排除，我們整個生活條件都可以提升耶。所以部長，我還是要感謝你們，這段時間我一直督促你們，一直煩你們，今天必須要感謝你們，因為你替我們嘉義幫了很多忙，也說了很多好話，所以目前台積電CoWoS封測廠落腳嘉義，就這個部分，部長，真的要感謝你啦。"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員，我覺得產業有需要，我們都要積極協助。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，感謝，謝謝二位。"],["王部長美花：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來我們請羅廷瑋委員，羅廷瑋、羅廷瑋委員不在現場。","今日登記發言的委員，除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","委員邱議瑩所提書面質詢，列入公報。","書面質詢以及未及答復的部分，請相關單位在一週之內以書面答復，並副知本委員會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-4","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 64.282, \"end\": 64.382, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 64.382, \"end\": 64.402, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 67.051, \"end\": 82.248, \"text\": \"這本來省的水源然後經濟部統一調波就像剛才說的增溫水庫它都在我們的大坡在水源地的地方自然有一個痛苦這個感覺就是說它叫做水源保護區自然有它的土地利用的一個管制\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 67.051, \"end\": 67.511, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"省\", \"start\": 67.511, \"end\": 67.651, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 67.651, \"end\": 67.811, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 67.811, \"end\": 67.992, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 67.992, \"end\": 68.492, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 68.492, \"end\": 68.652, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 68.652, \"end\": 68.813, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 68.813, \"end\": 69.213, \"score\": 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\"所以這都是大家共同面對的一個狀況,所以專門水口的水,全國調波主要供給南科用,這個都是很健康的啊,怎麼可以現在說這樣,黑山水口這個口地分林,他就說全部都是他們的,這是什麼道理啊?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 82.928, \"end\": 83.068, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 83.068, \"end\": 83.288, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 83.288, \"end\": 83.588, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 83.588, \"end\": 83.729, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 83.729, \"end\": 83.869, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 83.869, \"end\": 85.029, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 85.029, \"end\": 85.189, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 85.189, \"end\": 85.369, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 85.369, \"end\": 85.749, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 85.749, \"end\": 85.85, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 85.85, \"end\": 86.91, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, 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\"是我覺得大家還是水確實是也是一樣要全台灣來調度啦吼那我覺得這個對我們現在來講特別是這個珍珠串計畫更是我們更會把它從台北的地方對一直往南調度對一直更順暢的調度嘛那所以我再進一步的吼我要請教啦吼因為剛剛那個講的就算了啦吼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 101.966, \"end\": 102.727, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 102.727, \"end\": 103.027, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 103.027, \"end\": 103.267, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 103.267, \"end\": 103.427, \"score\": 0.651}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 103.427, \"end\": 103.748, \"score\": 0.575}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 103.748, \"end\": 104.428, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 104.428, \"end\": 105.109, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.109, \"end\": 105.329, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 105.329, \"end\": 105.529, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.529, \"end\": 105.689, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 105.689, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 563.611, \"end\": 563.631, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 563.631, \"end\": 563.651, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 563.651, \"end\": 563.671, \"score\": 0.003}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,449 --> 00:00:18,244\n蔡易餘委員請做詢答。謝謝主席,那是有請部長跟我們署長。我們請兩位,謝謝。好,委員好,是。\n\n2\n00:00:19,410 --> 00:00:34,875\n保證,剛才聽到很遠了不過剛剛陳冠廷委員已經大概講了這個水源地就是在嘉義嘛部分啦部分不是超過百分之六十以上啦尤其梅山跟阿里山湖山水庫的水源地就是才嘉義來的\n\n3\n00:00:36,088 --> 00:01:04,402\n過去我們就是說因為它就進到湖山水庫所以雲林用是大宗事實上是周邊的區域在使用那怎麼可以這樣變成老天用完罐子就變成老天這樣是很不對的然後這一次利用利用說好像我們台積電設置在嘉義就是用了雲林的水這目的在幹嘛製造仇恨捏製造雲林跟嘉義的對立捏有必要這樣嗎\n\n4\n00:01:07,051 --> 00:01:22,248\n這本來省的水源然後經濟部統一調波就像剛才說的增溫水庫它都在我們的大坡在水源地的地方自然有一個痛苦這個感覺就是說它叫做水源保護區自然有它的土地利用的一個管制\n\n5\n00:01:22,928 --> 00:01:40,937\n所以這都是大家共同面對的一個狀況,所以專門水口的水,全國調波主要供給南科用,這個都是很健康的啊,怎麼可以現在說這樣,黑山水口這個口地分林,他就說全部都是他們的,這是什麼道理啊?\n\n6\n00:01:41,966 --> 00:01:49,312\n是我覺得大家還是水確實是也是一樣要全台灣來調度啦吼那我覺得這個對我們現在來講特別是這個珍珠串計畫更是我們更會把它從台北的地方對一直往南調度對一直更順暢的調度嘛那所以我再進一步的吼我要請教啦吼因為剛剛那個講的就算了啦吼\n\n7\n00:02:09,230 --> 00:02:27,090\n我覺得與你沒有必要再糾結這一點那我想這一次台積電封測場那我們經濟部現在在規劃所謂的再生水那這個再生水我一直覺得說對於未來我們整個居民的現民的一個環境也是一個大很好的一個改善\n\n8\n00:02:28,629 --> 00:02:52,808\n目前我想請教這個部長說你們現在規劃的再生水他所謂的接管跟這個民生用水啊其他的一些污水他的接管你們的範圍到底是多大基本上現在是以擴大限制這個0.45為主那其他的這個部分的話你們不會只有限制特區吧不會那到底會多大\n\n9\n00:02:53,787 --> 00:03:20,863\n這個是不是隨著這個應該是整個市區民生的接管率比較完善這個水源量比較穩定當然我現在講的都是算我們的市區我們都知道說我們在嘉義的市區不像不像整個嘛不像都市嘛我們都是一個部落一個部落的啊所以到底你們會到怎樣的一個部落的範圍那站在我的期待啦我希望這個範圍越大越好\n\n10\n00:03:24,047 --> 00:03:48,007\n這個當然是沒有問題包括高鐵的特定區包括泰寶的都市計劃區這些都涵蓋在裡面如果只有高鐵跟泰寶的都市計劃區範圍還沒有那麼大範圍還不夠因為泰寶事實上也有分為東泰寶西泰寶那我是想說如果可以範圍跑到的東泰寶因為東泰寶才是泰寶目前人口最稠密的地方\n\n11\n00:03:48,887 --> 00:04:14,114\n既然人口多的地方表示那邊的可以求的水主人比較多,不然那邊比較空?所以我是覺得說你們可以在考慮的時候把整個太保都納進來。我們再生水的使用盡量擴大使用,除此之外的話若是因為路線的關係我們還有帶旅行的一個機制,這個部分都有完善的配套。\n\n12\n00:04:14,753 --> 00:04:32,825\n好,所以我這個範圍我希望未來你們可以要開會的時候那可以再聽一些我們地方的建議畢竟我們對於哪個地方的一個生活區他們有這樣的需求這個我們應該是可以再提供一點建議好不好好,那再第二個問題就是說\n\n13\n00:04:35,732 --> 00:04:56,467\n這一個土方目前我們知道嘉義科學園區他大概在規劃上他必須要把他的高層墊高而且是用200年的一個防洪標準所以他大概需要一些土方那這些土方的來源我就是可以具體建議去年發生了這個巴掌溪的這個議題\n\n14\n00:05:04,153 --> 00:05:23,985\n然後還有還有我們的水上的鄉親去過世這個大家很難過那我們所以我們急著都在處理這個巴展西兩側的輸進那我目前我初初步跟五合局在聊天的時候他給我一個數字我不知道經不精準就是那裡需要輸進可能還需要這個500500萬方\n\n15\n00:05:29,548 --> 00:05:56,103\n對阿是很大喔很多喔那這個很難去化而我最近也一直在跟台糖在那邊溝通說能不能把這個土先暫置在台糖或者是我們去幫台糖第4D的地方幫他做這個土壤的改良那這個溝通更是也是一點點一點點的去化阿現在難得有這個機會如果這些土方可以進入這個未來國科會嘉義科學園區的土方哇那是100分\n\n16\n00:05:57,683 --> 00:06:19,043\n這個沒有問題過去在科學園區的開發現在既有了科學園區我們就是用這個模式除了河川的清淤之外水庫的清淤也是一個來源當然以就近為主因為我現在比較擔心的就是說我們目前站在水利署的考量會覺得我去使用水庫的土方\n\n17\n00:06:19,784 --> 00:06:27,487\n吼那那一些錢會用前餐計畫來補助運費。吼你也知道投最嚴重的就是這些運費嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:27,487 --> 00:06:34,650\n不會,呃,委員,呃,忘了要檢視一下。我們在呃,嘉義清的,究竟可以擴大通紅。\n\n19\n00:06:35,450 --> 00:07:00,380\n然後又可以增加這個科學營區的建設這是當然最好的當然最好我剛剛講的是所謂水庫的部分事實上我也在替你們考量啦因為過去你們在做增溫水庫啊白河水庫的清淤這有前瞻預算來做它背後的一個挹注所以不會這個運費沒有動到你們的本預算但是未來巴掌溪的清淤可不可以比照\n\n20\n00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:09,404\n當時的這個水庫清瘀的一個辦法這個目前我不知道那我擔心的就是說這樣會變成一個排擠效應嗎?還是沒關係你們覺得說你們的遺申高\n\n21\n00:07:15,178 --> 00:07:40,547\n這個基本上我們現在清瘀的地方是再到更遠去了那就是說放到這個嘉義科學園區的話因為它更近所以我站在節省運備減少支出的立場是最好的好不好所以我們應該是盡量使用這裡的土方好不好好第二個就是說因為我們現在一直在討論這個輸進的工作啦所以我事實上也有在關心我們嘉義有一個陸寮水庫那這個陸寮水庫的\n\n22\n00:07:44,548 --> 00:08:10,800\n蘇俊什麼時候會開始進行的?這兩條都講農用的啦。都農用的而已。各位有報告你今年超過10月有75個嘛。我們現在有做過評估啦。入了水庫的話可能除了清淤之外還有一些水源的計畫。它可能必須要從這個雲水溪這樣過來。那我們現在初步的規劃它的總經費大概有將近差不多70億左右。\n\n23\n00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:25,851\n嗯那這個部分我覺得當然庫董要把它恢復起來因為他可能還是要把它出超過300萬地方左右我們希望說這整體的計畫可以清了庫董又可以找到新的水源\n\n24\n00:08:26,491 --> 00:08:41,086\n又可以對區域裡面有更大的幫助我這邊再次的跟委員說明現在目前為止嘉義並沒有缺水供給量遠遠大於需求量我們供給量是36萬現在需求量是27萬\n\n25\n00:08:44,810 --> 00:08:59,844\n當然我們需要調度跟備援來因應氣候變遷甚至我們需要科技造水包括再生水甚至符合ESG的對於產業都有幫助的把一滴水用兩滴使用這個是我們所指的方向你說的真的很重要就是說\n\n26\n00:09:03,107 --> 00:09:22,871\n你富山水庫的水含我們家客來說他是備用水他也不是百分之百要去用他的水是讓我們嘉義的水源就是夠阿阿第二個就是這個再生水齁這個對我們嘉義來說是改善了我們整個齁整個用水整個水汙染的一些排除阿齁我們整個生活條件的都可以提升耶\n\n27\n00:09:23,291 --> 00:09:23,671\n謝謝委員我覺得產業有需要我們都要積極協助\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n449\t18244\t蔡易餘委員請做詢答。謝謝主席,那是有請部長跟我們署長。我們請兩位,謝謝。好,委員好,是。\n19410\t34875\t保證,剛才聽到很遠了不過剛剛陳冠廷委員已經大概講了這個水源地就是在嘉義嘛部分啦部分不是超過百分之六十以上啦尤其梅山跟阿里山湖山水庫的水源地就是才嘉義來的\n36088\t64402\t過去我們就是說因為它就進到湖山水庫所以雲林用是大宗事實上是周邊的區域在使用那怎麼可以這樣變成老天用完罐子就變成老天這樣是很不對的然後這一次利用利用說好像我們台積電設置在嘉義就是用了雲林的水這目的在幹嘛製造仇恨捏製造雲林跟嘉義的對立捏有必要這樣嗎\n67051\t82248\t這本來省的水源然後經濟部統一調波就像剛才說的增溫水庫它都在我們的大坡在水源地的地方自然有一個痛苦這個感覺就是說它叫做水源保護區自然有它的土地利用的一個管制\n82928\t100937\t所以這都是大家共同面對的一個狀況,所以專門水口的水,全國調波主要供給南科用,這個都是很健康的啊,怎麼可以現在說這樣,黑山水口這個口地分林,他就說全部都是他們的,這是什麼道理啊?\n101966\t109312\t是我覺得大家還是水確實是也是一樣要全台灣來調度啦吼那我覺得這個對我們現在來講特別是這個珍珠串計畫更是我們更會把它從台北的地方對一直往南調度對一直更順暢的調度嘛那所以我再進一步的吼我要請教啦吼因為剛剛那個講的就算了啦吼\n129230\t147090\t我覺得與你沒有必要再糾結這一點那我想這一次台積電封測場那我們經濟部現在在規劃所謂的再生水那這個再生水我一直覺得說對於未來我們整個居民的現民的一個環境也是一個大很好的一個改善\n148629\t172808\t目前我想請教這個部長說你們現在規劃的再生水他所謂的接管跟這個民生用水啊其他的一些污水他的接管你們的範圍到底是多大基本上現在是以擴大限制這個0.45為主那其他的這個部分的話你們不會只有限制特區吧不會那到底會多大\n173787\t200863\t這個是不是隨著這個應該是整個市區民生的接管率比較完善這個水源量比較穩定當然我現在講的都是算我們的市區我們都知道說我們在嘉義的市區不像不像整個嘛不像都市嘛我們都是一個部落一個部落的啊所以到底你們會到怎樣的一個部落的範圍那站在我的期待啦我希望這個範圍越大越好\n204047\t228007\t這個當然是沒有問題包括高鐵的特定區包括泰寶的都市計劃區這些都涵蓋在裡面如果只有高鐵跟泰寶的都市計劃區範圍還沒有那麼大範圍還不夠因為泰寶事實上也有分為東泰寶西泰寶那我是想說如果可以範圍跑到的東泰寶因為東泰寶才是泰寶目前人口最稠密的地方\n228887\t254114\t既然人口多的地方表示那邊的可以求的水主人比較多,不然那邊比較空?所以我是覺得說你們可以在考慮的時候把整個太保都納進來。我們再生水的使用盡量擴大使用,除此之外的話若是因為路線的關係我們還有帶旅行的一個機制,這個部分都有完善的配套。\n254753\t272825\t好,所以我這個範圍我希望未來你們可以要開會的時候那可以再聽一些我們地方的建議畢竟我們對於哪個地方的一個生活區他們有這樣的需求這個我們應該是可以再提供一點建議好不好好,那再第二個問題就是說\n275732\t296467\t這一個土方目前我們知道嘉義科學園區他大概在規劃上他必須要把他的高層墊高而且是用200年的一個防洪標準所以他大概需要一些土方那這些土方的來源我就是可以具體建議去年發生了這個巴掌溪的這個議題\n304153\t323985\t然後還有還有我們的水上的鄉親去過世這個大家很難過那我們所以我們急著都在處理這個巴展西兩側的輸進那我目前我初初步跟五合局在聊天的時候他給我一個數字我不知道經不精準就是那裡需要輸進可能還需要這個500500萬方\n329548\t356103\t對阿是很大喔很多喔那這個很難去化而我最近也一直在跟台糖在那邊溝通說能不能把這個土先暫置在台糖或者是我們去幫台糖第4D的地方幫他做這個土壤的改良那這個溝通更是也是一點點一點點的去化阿現在難得有這個機會如果這些土方可以進入這個未來國科會嘉義科學園區的土方哇那是100分\n357683\t379043\t這個沒有問題過去在科學園區的開發現在既有了科學園區我們就是用這個模式除了河川的清淤之外水庫的清淤也是一個來源當然以就近為主因為我現在比較擔心的就是說我們目前站在水利署的考量會覺得我去使用水庫的土方\n379784\t387487\t吼那那一些錢會用前餐計畫來補助運費。吼你也知道投最嚴重的就是這些運費嗎?\n387487\t394650\t不會,呃,委員,呃,忘了要檢視一下。我們在呃,嘉義清的,究竟可以擴大通紅。\n395450\t420380\t然後又可以增加這個科學營區的建設這是當然最好的當然最好我剛剛講的是所謂水庫的部分事實上我也在替你們考量啦因為過去你們在做增溫水庫啊白河水庫的清淤這有前瞻預算來做它背後的一個挹注所以不會這個運費沒有動到你們的本預算但是未來巴掌溪的清淤可不可以比照\n421880\t429404\t當時的這個水庫清瘀的一個辦法 這個目前我不知道那我擔心的就是說 這樣會變成一個排擠效應嗎?還是沒關係 你們覺得說 你們的遺申高\n435178\t460547\t這個基本上我們現在清瘀的地方是再到更遠去了那就是說放到這個嘉義科學園區的話因為它更近所以我站在節省運備減少支出的立場是最好的好不好所以我們應該是盡量使用這裡的土方好不好好第二個就是說因為我們現在一直在討論這個輸進的工作啦所以我事實上也有在關心我們嘉義有一個陸寮水庫那這個陸寮水庫的\n464548\t490800\t蘇俊什麼時候會開始進行的?這兩條都講農用的啦。都農用的而已。各位有報告你今年超過10月有75個嘛。我們現在有做過評估啦。入了水庫的話可能除了清淤之外還有一些水源的計畫。它可能必須要從這個雲水溪這樣過來。那我們現在初步的規劃它的總經費大概有將近差不多70億左右。\n491320\t505851\t嗯那這個部分我覺得當然庫董要把它恢復起來因為他可能還是要把它出超過300萬地方左右我們希望說這整體的計畫可以清了庫董又可以找到新的水源\n506491\t521086\t又可以對區域裡面有更大的幫助我這邊再次的跟委員說明現在目前為止嘉義並沒有缺水供給量遠遠大於需求量我們供給量是36萬現在需求量是27萬\n524810\t539844\t當然我們需要調度跟備援來因應氣候變遷甚至我們需要科技造水包括再生水甚至符合ESG的對於產業都有幫助的把一滴水用兩滴使用這個是我們所指的方向你說的真的很重要就是說\n543107\t562871\t你富山水庫的水含我們家客來說他是備用水他也不是百分之百要去用他的水是讓我們嘉義的水源就是夠阿阿第二個就是這個再生水齁這個對我們嘉義來說是改善了我們整個齁整個用水整個水汙染的一些排除阿齁我們整個生活條件的都可以提升耶\n563291\t563671\t謝謝委員我覺得產業有需要我們都要積極協助\n","txt":"蔡易餘委員請做詢答。謝謝主席,那是有請部長跟我們署長。我們請兩位,謝謝。好,委員好,是。\n保證,剛才聽到很遠了不過剛剛陳冠廷委員已經大概講了這個水源地就是在嘉義嘛部分啦部分不是超過百分之六十以上啦尤其梅山跟阿里山湖山水庫的水源地就是才嘉義來的\n過去我們就是說因為它就進到湖山水庫所以雲林用是大宗事實上是周邊的區域在使用那怎麼可以這樣變成老天用完罐子就變成老天這樣是很不對的然後這一次利用利用說好像我們台積電設置在嘉義就是用了雲林的水這目的在幹嘛製造仇恨捏製造雲林跟嘉義的對立捏有必要這樣嗎\n這本來省的水源然後經濟部統一調波就像剛才說的增溫水庫它都在我們的大坡在水源地的地方自然有一個痛苦這個感覺就是說它叫做水源保護區自然有它的土地利用的一個管制\n所以這都是大家共同面對的一個狀況,所以專門水口的水,全國調波主要供給南科用,這個都是很健康的啊,怎麼可以現在說這樣,黑山水口這個口地分林,他就說全部都是他們的,這是什麼道理啊?\n是我覺得大家還是水確實是也是一樣要全台灣來調度啦吼那我覺得這個對我們現在來講特別是這個珍珠串計畫更是我們更會把它從台北的地方對一直往南調度對一直更順暢的調度嘛那所以我再進一步的吼我要請教啦吼因為剛剛那個講的就算了啦吼\n我覺得與你沒有必要再糾結這一點那我想這一次台積電封測場那我們經濟部現在在規劃所謂的再生水那這個再生水我一直覺得說對於未來我們整個居民的現民的一個環境也是一個大很好的一個改善\n目前我想請教這個部長說你們現在規劃的再生水他所謂的接管跟這個民生用水啊其他的一些污水他的接管你們的範圍到底是多大基本上現在是以擴大限制這個0.45為主那其他的這個部分的話你們不會只有限制特區吧不會那到底會多大\n這個是不是隨著這個應該是整個市區民生的接管率比較完善這個水源量比較穩定當然我現在講的都是算我們的市區我們都知道說我們在嘉義的市區不像不像整個嘛不像都市嘛我們都是一個部落一個部落的啊所以到底你們會到怎樣的一個部落的範圍那站在我的期待啦我希望這個範圍越大越好\n這個當然是沒有問題包括高鐵的特定區包括泰寶的都市計劃區這些都涵蓋在裡面如果只有高鐵跟泰寶的都市計劃區範圍還沒有那麼大範圍還不夠因為泰寶事實上也有分為東泰寶西泰寶那我是想說如果可以範圍跑到的東泰寶因為東泰寶才是泰寶目前人口最稠密的地方\n既然人口多的地方表示那邊的可以求的水主人比較多,不然那邊比較空?所以我是覺得說你們可以在考慮的時候把整個太保都納進來。我們再生水的使用盡量擴大使用,除此之外的話若是因為路線的關係我們還有帶旅行的一個機制,這個部分都有完善的配套。\n好,所以我這個範圍我希望未來你們可以要開會的時候那可以再聽一些我們地方的建議畢竟我們對於哪個地方的一個生活區他們有這樣的需求這個我們應該是可以再提供一點建議好不好好,那再第二個問題就是說\n這一個土方目前我們知道嘉義科學園區他大概在規劃上他必須要把他的高層墊高而且是用200年的一個防洪標準所以他大概需要一些土方那這些土方的來源我就是可以具體建議去年發生了這個巴掌溪的這個議題\n然後還有還有我們的水上的鄉親去過世這個大家很難過那我們所以我們急著都在處理這個巴展西兩側的輸進那我目前我初初步跟五合局在聊天的時候他給我一個數字我不知道經不精準就是那裡需要輸進可能還需要這個500500萬方\n對阿是很大喔很多喔那這個很難去化而我最近也一直在跟台糖在那邊溝通說能不能把這個土先暫置在台糖或者是我們去幫台糖第4D的地方幫他做這個土壤的改良那這個溝通更是也是一點點一點點的去化阿現在難得有這個機會如果這些土方可以進入這個未來國科會嘉義科學園區的土方哇那是100分\n這個沒有問題過去在科學園區的開發現在既有了科學園區我們就是用這個模式除了河川的清淤之外水庫的清淤也是一個來源當然以就近為主因為我現在比較擔心的就是說我們目前站在水利署的考量會覺得我去使用水庫的土方\n吼那那一些錢會用前餐計畫來補助運費。吼你也知道投最嚴重的就是這些運費嗎?\n不會,呃,委員,呃,忘了要檢視一下。我們在呃,嘉義清的,究竟可以擴大通紅。\n然後又可以增加這個科學營區的建設這是當然最好的當然最好我剛剛講的是所謂水庫的部分事實上我也在替你們考量啦因為過去你們在做增溫水庫啊白河水庫的清淤這有前瞻預算來做它背後的一個挹注所以不會這個運費沒有動到你們的本預算但是未來巴掌溪的清淤可不可以比照\n當時的這個水庫清瘀的一個辦法 這個目前我不知道那我擔心的就是說 這樣會變成一個排擠效應嗎?還是沒關係 你們覺得說 你們的遺申高\n這個基本上我們現在清瘀的地方是再到更遠去了那就是說放到這個嘉義科學園區的話因為它更近所以我站在節省運備減少支出的立場是最好的好不好所以我們應該是盡量使用這裡的土方好不好好第二個就是說因為我們現在一直在討論這個輸進的工作啦所以我事實上也有在關心我們嘉義有一個陸寮水庫那這個陸寮水庫的\n蘇俊什麼時候會開始進行的?這兩條都講農用的啦。都農用的而已。各位有報告你今年超過10月有75個嘛。我們現在有做過評估啦。入了水庫的話可能除了清淤之外還有一些水源的計畫。它可能必須要從這個雲水溪這樣過來。那我們現在初步的規劃它的總經費大概有將近差不多70億左右。\n嗯那這個部分我覺得當然庫董要把它恢復起來因為他可能還是要把它出超過300萬地方左右我們希望說這整體的計畫可以清了庫董又可以找到新的水源\n又可以對區域裡面有更大的幫助我這邊再次的跟委員說明現在目前為止嘉義並沒有缺水供給量遠遠大於需求量我們供給量是36萬現在需求量是27萬\n當然我們需要調度跟備援來因應氣候變遷甚至我們需要科技造水包括再生水甚至符合ESG的對於產業都有幫助的把一滴水用兩滴使用這個是我們所指的方向你說的真的很重要就是說\n你富山水庫的水含我們家客來說他是備用水他也不是百分之百要去用他的水是讓我們嘉義的水源就是夠阿阿第二個就是這個再生水齁這個對我們嘉義來說是改善了我們整個齁整個用水整個水汙染的一些排除阿齁我們整個生活條件的都可以提升耶\n謝謝委員我覺得產業有需要我們都要積極協助\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.449 --> 00:18.244\n蔡易餘委員請做詢答。謝謝主席,那是有請部長跟我們署長。我們請兩位,謝謝。好,委員好,是。\n\n00:19.410 --> 00:34.875\n保證,剛才聽到很遠了不過剛剛陳冠廷委員已經大概講了這個水源地就是在嘉義嘛部分啦部分不是超過百分之六十以上啦尤其梅山跟阿里山湖山水庫的水源地就是才嘉義來的\n\n00:36.088 --> 01:04.402\n過去我們就是說因為它就進到湖山水庫所以雲林用是大宗事實上是周邊的區域在使用那怎麼可以這樣變成老天用完罐子就變成老天這樣是很不對的然後這一次利用利用說好像我們台積電設置在嘉義就是用了雲林的水這目的在幹嘛製造仇恨捏製造雲林跟嘉義的對立捏有必要這樣嗎\n\n01:07.051 --> 01:22.248\n這本來省的水源然後經濟部統一調波就像剛才說的增溫水庫它都在我們的大坡在水源地的地方自然有一個痛苦這個感覺就是說它叫做水源保護區自然有它的土地利用的一個管制\n\n01:22.928 --> 01:40.937\n所以這都是大家共同面對的一個狀況,所以專門水口的水,全國調波主要供給南科用,這個都是很健康的啊,怎麼可以現在說這樣,黑山水口這個口地分林,他就說全部都是他們的,這是什麼道理啊?\n\n01:41.966 --> 01:49.312\n是我覺得大家還是水確實是也是一樣要全台灣來調度啦吼那我覺得這個對我們現在來講特別是這個珍珠串計畫更是我們更會把它從台北的地方對一直往南調度對一直更順暢的調度嘛那所以我再進一步的吼我要請教啦吼因為剛剛那個講的就算了啦吼\n\n02:09.230 --> 02:27.090\n我覺得與你沒有必要再糾結這一點那我想這一次台積電封測場那我們經濟部現在在規劃所謂的再生水那這個再生水我一直覺得說對於未來我們整個居民的現民的一個環境也是一個大很好的一個改善\n\n02:28.629 --> 02:52.808\n目前我想請教這個部長說你們現在規劃的再生水他所謂的接管跟這個民生用水啊其他的一些污水他的接管你們的範圍到底是多大基本上現在是以擴大限制這個0.45為主那其他的這個部分的話你們不會只有限制特區吧不會那到底會多大\n\n02:53.787 --> 03:20.863\n這個是不是隨著這個應該是整個市區民生的接管率比較完善這個水源量比較穩定當然我現在講的都是算我們的市區我們都知道說我們在嘉義的市區不像不像整個嘛不像都市嘛我們都是一個部落一個部落的啊所以到底你們會到怎樣的一個部落的範圍那站在我的期待啦我希望這個範圍越大越好\n\n03:24.047 --> 03:48.007\n這個當然是沒有問題包括高鐵的特定區包括泰寶的都市計劃區這些都涵蓋在裡面如果只有高鐵跟泰寶的都市計劃區範圍還沒有那麼大範圍還不夠因為泰寶事實上也有分為東泰寶西泰寶那我是想說如果可以範圍跑到的東泰寶因為東泰寶才是泰寶目前人口最稠密的地方\n\n03:48.887 --> 04:14.114\n既然人口多的地方表示那邊的可以求的水主人比較多,不然那邊比較空?所以我是覺得說你們可以在考慮的時候把整個太保都納進來。我們再生水的使用盡量擴大使用,除此之外的話若是因為路線的關係我們還有帶旅行的一個機制,這個部分都有完善的配套。\n\n04:14.753 --> 04:32.825\n好,所以我這個範圍我希望未來你們可以要開會的時候那可以再聽一些我們地方的建議畢竟我們對於哪個地方的一個生活區他們有這樣的需求這個我們應該是可以再提供一點建議好不好好,那再第二個問題就是說\n\n04:35.732 --> 04:56.467\n這一個土方目前我們知道嘉義科學園區他大概在規劃上他必須要把他的高層墊高而且是用200年的一個防洪標準所以他大概需要一些土方那這些土方的來源我就是可以具體建議去年發生了這個巴掌溪的這個議題\n\n05:04.153 --> 05:23.985\n然後還有還有我們的水上的鄉親去過世這個大家很難過那我們所以我們急著都在處理這個巴展西兩側的輸進那我目前我初初步跟五合局在聊天的時候他給我一個數字我不知道經不精準就是那裡需要輸進可能還需要這個500500萬方\n\n05:29.548 --> 05:56.103\n對阿是很大喔很多喔那這個很難去化而我最近也一直在跟台糖在那邊溝通說能不能把這個土先暫置在台糖或者是我們去幫台糖第4D的地方幫他做這個土壤的改良那這個溝通更是也是一點點一點點的去化阿現在難得有這個機會如果這些土方可以進入這個未來國科會嘉義科學園區的土方哇那是100分\n\n05:57.683 --> 06:19.043\n這個沒有問題過去在科學園區的開發現在既有了科學園區我們就是用這個模式除了河川的清淤之外水庫的清淤也是一個來源當然以就近為主因為我現在比較擔心的就是說我們目前站在水利署的考量會覺得我去使用水庫的土方\n\n06:19.784 --> 06:27.487\n吼那那一些錢會用前餐計畫來補助運費。吼你也知道投最嚴重的就是這些運費嗎?\n\n06:27.487 --> 06:34.650\n不會,呃,委員,呃,忘了要檢視一下。我們在呃,嘉義清的,究竟可以擴大通紅。\n\n06:35.450 --> 07:00.380\n然後又可以增加這個科學營區的建設這是當然最好的當然最好我剛剛講的是所謂水庫的部分事實上我也在替你們考量啦因為過去你們在做增溫水庫啊白河水庫的清淤這有前瞻預算來做它背後的一個挹注所以不會這個運費沒有動到你們的本預算但是未來巴掌溪的清淤可不可以比照\n\n07:01.880 --> 07:09.404\n當時的這個水庫清瘀的一個辦法這個目前我不知道那我擔心的就是說這樣會變成一個排擠效應嗎?還是沒關係你們覺得說你們的遺申高\n\n07:15.178 --> 07:40.547\n這個基本上我們現在清瘀的地方是再到更遠去了那就是說放到這個嘉義科學園區的話因為它更近所以我站在節省運備減少支出的立場是最好的好不好所以我們應該是盡量使用這裡的土方好不好好第二個就是說因為我們現在一直在討論這個輸進的工作啦所以我事實上也有在關心我們嘉義有一個陸寮水庫那這個陸寮水庫的\n\n07:44.548 --> 08:10.800\n蘇俊什麼時候會開始進行的?這兩條都講農用的啦。都農用的而已。各位有報告你今年超過10月有75個嘛。我們現在有做過評估啦。入了水庫的話可能除了清淤之外還有一些水源的計畫。它可能必須要從這個雲水溪這樣過來。那我們現在初步的規劃它的總經費大概有將近差不多70億左右。\n\n08:11.320 --> 08:25.851\n嗯那這個部分我覺得當然庫董要把它恢復起來因為他可能還是要把它出超過300萬地方左右我們希望說這整體的計畫可以清了庫董又可以找到新的水源\n\n08:26.491 --> 08:41.086\n又可以對區域裡面有更大的幫助我這邊再次的跟委員說明現在目前為止嘉義並沒有缺水供給量遠遠大於需求量我們供給量是36萬現在需求量是27萬\n\n08:44.810 --> 08:59.844\n當然我們需要調度跟備援來因應氣候變遷甚至我們需要科技造水包括再生水甚至符合ESG的對於產業都有幫助的把一滴水用兩滴使用這個是我們所指的方向你說的真的很重要就是說\n\n09:03.107 --> 09:22.871\n你富山水庫的水含我們家客來說他是備用水他也不是百分之百要去用他的水是讓我們嘉義的水源就是夠阿阿第二個就是這個再生水齁這個對我們嘉義來說是改善了我們整個齁整個用水整個水汙染的一些排除阿齁我們整個生活條件的都可以提升耶\n\n09:23.291 --> 09:23.671\n謝謝委員我覺得產業有需要我們都要積極協助\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.449,"end":18.244,"text":"蔡易餘委員請做詢答。謝謝主席,那是有請部長跟我們署長。我們請兩位,謝謝。好,委員好,是。"},{"start":19.41,"end":34.875,"text":"保證,剛才聽到很遠了不過剛剛陳冠廷委員已經大概講了這個水源地就是在嘉義嘛部分啦部分不是超過百分之六十以上啦尤其梅山跟阿里山湖山水庫的水源地就是才嘉義來的"},{"start":36.088,"end":64.402,"text":"過去我們就是說因為它就進到湖山水庫所以雲林用是大宗事實上是周邊的區域在使用那怎麼可以這樣變成老天用完罐子就變成老天這樣是很不對的然後這一次利用利用說好像我們台積電設置在嘉義就是用了雲林的水這目的在幹嘛製造仇恨捏製造雲林跟嘉義的對立捏有必要這樣嗎"},{"start":67.051,"end":82.248,"text":"這本來省的水源然後經濟部統一調波就像剛才說的增溫水庫它都在我們的大坡在水源地的地方自然有一個痛苦這個感覺就是說它叫做水源保護區自然有它的土地利用的一個管制"},{"start":82.928,"end":100.937,"text":"所以這都是大家共同面對的一個狀況,所以專門水口的水,全國調波主要供給南科用,這個都是很健康的啊,怎麼可以現在說這樣,黑山水口這個口地分林,他就說全部都是他們的,這是什麼道理啊?"},{"start":101.966,"end":109.312,"text":"是我覺得大家還是水確實是也是一樣要全台灣來調度啦吼那我覺得這個對我們現在來講特別是這個珍珠串計畫更是我們更會把它從台北的地方對一直往南調度對一直更順暢的調度嘛那所以我再進一步的吼我要請教啦吼因為剛剛那個講的就算了啦吼"},{"start":129.23,"end":147.09,"text":"我覺得與你沒有必要再糾結這一點那我想這一次台積電封測場那我們經濟部現在在規劃所謂的再生水那這個再生水我一直覺得說對於未來我們整個居民的現民的一個環境也是一個大很好的一個改善"},{"start":148.629,"end":172.808,"text":"目前我想請教這個部長說你們現在規劃的再生水他所謂的接管跟這個民生用水啊其他的一些污水他的接管你們的範圍到底是多大基本上現在是以擴大限制這個0.45為主那其他的這個部分的話你們不會只有限制特區吧不會那到底會多大"},{"start":173.787,"end":200.863,"text":"這個是不是隨著這個應該是整個市區民生的接管率比較完善這個水源量比較穩定當然我現在講的都是算我們的市區我們都知道說我們在嘉義的市區不像不像整個嘛不像都市嘛我們都是一個部落一個部落的啊所以到底你們會到怎樣的一個部落的範圍那站在我的期待啦我希望這個範圍越大越好"},{"start":204.047,"end":228.007,"text":"這個當然是沒有問題包括高鐵的特定區包括泰寶的都市計劃區這些都涵蓋在裡面如果只有高鐵跟泰寶的都市計劃區範圍還沒有那麼大範圍還不夠因為泰寶事實上也有分為東泰寶西泰寶那我是想說如果可以範圍跑到的東泰寶因為東泰寶才是泰寶目前人口最稠密的地方"},{"start":228.887,"end":254.114,"text":"既然人口多的地方表示那邊的可以求的水主人比較多,不然那邊比較空?所以我是覺得說你們可以在考慮的時候把整個太保都納進來。我們再生水的使用盡量擴大使用,除此之外的話若是因為路線的關係我們還有帶旅行的一個機制,這個部分都有完善的配套。"},{"start":254.753,"end":272.825,"text":"好,所以我這個範圍我希望未來你們可以要開會的時候那可以再聽一些我們地方的建議畢竟我們對於哪個地方的一個生活區他們有這樣的需求這個我們應該是可以再提供一點建議好不好好,那再第二個問題就是說"},{"start":275.732,"end":296.467,"text":"這一個土方目前我們知道嘉義科學園區他大概在規劃上他必須要把他的高層墊高而且是用200年的一個防洪標準所以他大概需要一些土方那這些土方的來源我就是可以具體建議去年發生了這個巴掌溪的這個議題"},{"start":304.153,"end":323.985,"text":"然後還有還有我們的水上的鄉親去過世這個大家很難過那我們所以我們急著都在處理這個巴展西兩側的輸進那我目前我初初步跟五合局在聊天的時候他給我一個數字我不知道經不精準就是那裡需要輸進可能還需要這個500500萬方"},{"start":329.548,"end":356.103,"text":"對阿是很大喔很多喔那這個很難去化而我最近也一直在跟台糖在那邊溝通說能不能把這個土先暫置在台糖或者是我們去幫台糖第4D的地方幫他做這個土壤的改良那這個溝通更是也是一點點一點點的去化阿現在難得有這個機會如果這些土方可以進入這個未來國科會嘉義科學園區的土方哇那是100分"},{"start":357.683,"end":379.043,"text":"這個沒有問題過去在科學園區的開發現在既有了科學園區我們就是用這個模式除了河川的清淤之外水庫的清淤也是一個來源當然以就近為主因為我現在比較擔心的就是說我們目前站在水利署的考量會覺得我去使用水庫的土方"},{"start":379.784,"end":387.487,"text":"吼那那一些錢會用前餐計畫來補助運費。吼你也知道投最嚴重的就是這些運費嗎?"},{"start":387.487,"end":394.65,"text":"不會,呃,委員,呃,忘了要檢視一下。我們在呃,嘉義清的,究竟可以擴大通紅。"},{"start":395.45,"end":420.38,"text":"然後又可以增加這個科學營區的建設這是當然最好的當然最好我剛剛講的是所謂水庫的部分事實上我也在替你們考量啦因為過去你們在做增溫水庫啊白河水庫的清淤這有前瞻預算來做它背後的一個挹注所以不會這個運費沒有動到你們的本預算但是未來巴掌溪的清淤可不可以比照"},{"start":421.88,"end":429.404,"text":"當時的這個水庫清瘀的一個辦法 這個目前我不知道那我擔心的就是說 這樣會變成一個排擠效應嗎?還是沒關係 你們覺得說 你們的遺申高"},{"start":435.178,"end":460.547,"text":"這個基本上我們現在清瘀的地方是再到更遠去了那就是說放到這個嘉義科學園區的話因為它更近所以我站在節省運備減少支出的立場是最好的好不好所以我們應該是盡量使用這裡的土方好不好好第二個就是說因為我們現在一直在討論這個輸進的工作啦所以我事實上也有在關心我們嘉義有一個陸寮水庫那這個陸寮水庫的"},{"start":464.548,"end":490.8,"text":"蘇俊什麼時候會開始進行的?這兩條都講農用的啦。都農用的而已。各位有報告你今年超過10月有75個嘛。我們現在有做過評估啦。入了水庫的話可能除了清淤之外還有一些水源的計畫。它可能必須要從這個雲水溪這樣過來。那我們現在初步的規劃它的總經費大概有將近差不多70億左右。"},{"start":491.32,"end":505.851,"text":"嗯那這個部分我覺得當然庫董要把它恢復起來因為他可能還是要把它出超過300萬地方左右我們希望說這整體的計畫可以清了庫董又可以找到新的水源"},{"start":506.491,"end":521.086,"text":"又可以對區域裡面有更大的幫助我這邊再次的跟委員說明現在目前為止嘉義並沒有缺水供給量遠遠大於需求量我們供給量是36萬現在需求量是27萬"},{"start":524.81,"end":539.844,"text":"當然我們需要調度跟備援來因應氣候變遷甚至我們需要科技造水包括再生水甚至符合ESG的對於產業都有幫助的把一滴水用兩滴使用這個是我們所指的方向你說的真的很重要就是說"},{"start":543.107,"end":562.871,"text":"你富山水庫的水含我們家客來說他是備用水他也不是百分之百要去用他的水是讓我們嘉義的水源就是夠阿阿第二個就是這個再生水齁這個對我們嘉義來說是改善了我們整個齁整個用水整個水汙染的一些排除阿齁我們整個生活條件的都可以提升耶"},{"start":563.291,"end":563.671,"text":"謝謝委員我覺得產業有需要我們都要積極協助"}]}}}}