{"id":150300,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150300","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e4dc942c9077834bbfd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6035ce6f1aebce8e05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"17:18:52 - 17:48:43","影片長度":"00:29:51","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":1791,"end_time":"2024-03-22T17:48:43+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T17:18:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1060,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（17時19分）謝謝韓院長，有請我們行政院陳院長。"],["主席：請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：午安。"],["魯委員明哲：陳院長，我們王部長可以一起上來。"],["主席：請交通部王部長。"],["魯委員明哲：首先，從去年疫情趨緩之後旅遊完全開放，不光是國內的旅遊到國外的旅遊，我們發覺從今年開始蠻明顯的，原本我們對國旅很多觀光業界各個產業鏈的期待，憑良心講到現在會覺得說……你看到這上面，我們清明連假還沒到，目前初步的一個報導，訂房率到四成五，我希望能夠更好、我們希望能夠再高。","春節旅遊已經過了，訂房率大概到6成，其他點點滴滴就不講了，有些相關產業、觀光的店家也不斷的反映，我想部長跟院長應該都非常關心，因為觀光旅遊業有很多人在過去兩年多嗷嗷待哺，我覺得能夠撐下來的真的不容易。對於國旅的春燕，現在聽到這些問題，院長還是部長來說說看你們的看法，你們覺得為什麼會這樣？能不能有效的協助國旅？"],["陳院長建仁：我請部長來回答。"],["王部長國材：是，我跟委員報告，事實上現在國旅在假日還是很熱，當然離島在冬天比較差，前陣子我們跟離島的幾位委員討論怎麼樣做促銷，比如說運具買一送一等等的促銷也在做。因為國境開放以後，有些人會往國外跑，我們也跟所有觀光業在談吸引力，一定要能夠吸引大家願意留在國內，這部分包括觀光署相關的建設計劃，包括國際魅力景區計畫，風管處的相關計畫也都在進行，最重要……"],["魯委員明哲：好，你剛剛講的這個我也非常認同，因為我們疫情期間編很多預算，也投入了當時觀光局、交通部很多的預算，有些是希望直接促銷國旅的，有很多是硬體的改善，那時候觀光局局長也再三答應，不光是答應我，他跟委員說：我們正好像各國一樣，藉這個時間把所有基礎設施、景點及相關設施弄好。可是我們看到最近出國的熱潮、看到了幾則報導，我心裡雖然覺得有點不服氣，但是人家講的又好像是真的，他說日本經過兩年多疫情已經進化升級，國旅還在原地踏步啊！我想他講的是非常廣泛，有私部門、有公部門的，你對於這句話、這個報導，就是國際很多吸引觀光客的作為，在疫情階段，他們的基礎建設和觀光是想方設法提升，希望疫後能夠在世界的市場搶得頭籌，你覺得臺灣有沒有落後？院長要不要講一下？"],["陳院長建仁：好，要促進國旅，實際上中央政府、觀光署的推動當然是很重要，但是地方政府也很重要，剛才賴瑞隆委員提到，像是以高雄國旅來講，高雄每次音樂會的時候，人潮不得了，有很多很多人，所以我們也希望中央跟地方一起配合，發展地方的觀光特色，像高雄辦了很多重要音樂會，他們在觀光國旅的部分就會增加，這確實是需要中央跟地方一起來努力啦！"],["魯委員明哲：好，院長，但我們希望整體、各個城市各有特色、各有想法、各有努力，真的很棒，既然觀光局升署了，大家都對它有期待，我相信院長也是。","現在我請教一下，今年我們希望來臺的人數，因為國人希望能夠旅遊，如果國人旅遊目前還沒有辦法達到這樣的熱潮，我們也希望國外來臺的旅客，不管是商務也好、純觀光的也好，希望人能夠多一點。部長有特別說過，今年目標是1,200萬人，你之前希望陸客也能夠來臺，如果沒有辦法開放陸客的話，也會持續想辦法努力，現在看起來兩岸的觀光旅遊並沒有很好的氣氛，不管我們要去、他們要來，氣氛都不好，但我不談政治的事，客人沒來，你現在對於達標的狀況，要不要修正一下呢？"],["王部長國材：的確當時觀光署估計的1,200萬裡面，大概有200到250萬是陸客，我們去年也大概是這個狀況，600萬裡面有100萬的陸客，結果最後是648萬，我們的目標是這樣，能早一點開放陸客來，當然這個目標就能早一點達到，如果沒有、我們繼續努力，目前這個目標還沒有修正，大概以這個為目標，但是……"],["魯委員明哲：就是扣掉陸客的部分，大概是1,000萬，不過，現在1月到2月，我幫你統計了，有118萬，平均大概50接近60萬，如果以12個月計算的話，我預估可能有700萬到800萬，所以我覺得這是設定目標，我們在這裡不是要吐槽，而是要努力嘛！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["魯委員明哲：如果現在是七、八百萬，到底該怎麼樣去補足？我那一天聽到了副院長的談話，院長你應該也知道吧？","（播放影片）"],["魯委員明哲：說真的，那天聽到我們副院長這一席的宣布，其實我個人很贊成也很興奮，為什麼？大家都知道轉機客旅遊因為時間有限，如果真的可成的話，機場附近的城市，機場附近的景點，是可以優先獲利的，當然，我覺得這如果可以開放，那是很重要的，往北可能可以到蘆竹、新北，大家都會在第一線受惠。關於這個部分，1個月過去了，那時是2月22日，現在3月22日了，院長，因為這個不是交通部的，真的跨了很多的單位，院長知道有這個宣布嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我記得當天因為我也在……"],["魯委員明哲：開會了沒有？我覺得至少行政院要主持相關的會議吧？"],["陳院長建仁：有，已經有開過會，我請部長來說明。"],["魯委員明哲：現在狀況怎麼樣？請說。"],["王部長國材：的確，當時副院長是希望這個能有625萬，但是在跨部會包括外交、包括移民署討論的時候，認為有一些轉機客進來，如果採免簽證可能會有一些問題，所以這個問題現在還沒有處理好。"],["魯委員明哲：現在已經胎死腹中了嗎？沒有吧？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有！沒有！"],["魯委員明哲：還在繼續吧？要努力！"],["陳院長建仁：還在研議中。"],["王部長國材：因為免簽證的部分牽涉到很多課題，尤其過去都一定要有簽證的那些國家，你要不要在機場就讓他直接免簽證進來，這個部分副院長有召開會議在討論。"],["陳院長建仁：現在還在研議中。"],["王部長國材：在突破中！"],["魯委員明哲：以112年來說，我們轉機旅客到達625萬，當然，未來是怎麼樣不清楚，但至少會有幾百萬人，像五、六百萬可能是一個可預期的客戶來源，當然有些很快就要轉機的，他不可能會出來，所以我拜託你們趕快去研究，現在我們覺得4小時之內的，我覺得交通部也是要看一下，像樟宜機場，他們在機場那個領域裡面，那個所謂小城市的觀光很熱門，有一些瀑布，有一些綠帶，還有兒童園區，而且有些是要收門票的，所以在裡面就有產值，不是純給你觀光的，當然免稅店大家都有啦！我倒是覺得一、二航廈看起來沒機會了，三航廈的部分，因為還有時間，我真的是建議，就是要去吸引那些轉機客，時間短的，他進不了城市；4小時之內的，我覺得如果我們有一些可以像世界特色機場的東西，他去那邊都必定要去看的，我倒是覺得這個部分可以考慮，我在這裡建議，你在三航廈能夠考量一下，像這樣有室內的，包括在機場這個小城市裡面的觀光；8小時以內，甚至8小時以上的，我們這些鄰近的城市對此可是有著非常深的期待，因為據我們判斷，機場最重要的、直接的交通工具就是機場捷運、機捷，不管從A12、A13、一航廈、二航廈，甚至他們還可以搭一站、兩站或是搭個幾站，很快半個小時內可以抵達的，往南就是我的轄區中壢，像青埔、中壢市區，我們也希望這些旅客來到我們這裡；往北到蘆竹、新北甚至林口，我們都希望這個部分能夠儘快來做，就算第一階段只有50萬、60萬，總是能夠一步一步向前走。院長，這個你要幫忙一下，雖然是看守內閣，但是今天總質詢我要再拜託你一件事，這個事情下一階段該怎麼推動？因為你有很多困難，交通部要去推這個事情，不管是外交部領事事務局，甚至移民署，這個部分我拜託院長要多費心，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：這個部分我剛才已經講過，已經請鄭副院長召開相關各部會的會議，這個也正在研議當中，我會請鄭副院長繼續來推動。剛才您講的這些構想不錯，現在有很多需要解決的問題，我們一步一步來解決，希望能夠早日能有轉機客的旅遊。"],["魯委員明哲：未來機場捷運的承載功能越來越多，首先是疫情之後乘客回流，第二個就是行政院推出TPASS後，很多民眾通勤選擇機捷，所以目前承載人次快速成長，第三個就是機場國門原本的功能，現在預計又增加一個轉機客大部分會使用的重要工具。針對這個部分，首先我要在這裡再次拜託院長跟部長，我上一次總質詢也說過，但我要先謝謝，因為上次完全沒有交集，這一次不一樣了。當然，我們知道行政院有幫忙先定調。機捷公司、桃捷公司為因應未來的人潮，認為需要9列直達車、6列普通車。目前已經溝通了好幾次，行政院層級也介入了，目前中央的評估雖然還沒有定案、沒有確定，但大概會給三分之二，也就是直達車6列、普通車4列；經費原本大約90億，現在變成60億。我相信院長你也知道，副院長也一直在協調這件事情……"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["魯委員明哲：但是這60億要怎麼補助？院長這邊可不可以多幫忙一點？"],["陳院長建仁：有關補助的情況，還是會跟地方政府再協調。這件事情我跟您報告一下，實際上，我們副院長與桃園市政府有很密集在溝通，至於金額是多少？他們還在商量的過程，可是我們會儘可能協助機捷購車，這個我們確實是有……"],["魯委員明哲：謝謝院長……"],["陳院長建仁：希望他們也能提出計畫……"],["魯委員明哲：院長，儘可能讓政策實施。我覺得未來總共要15列，至少第一階段大家達成共識的先上，因為這個車子從訂購到真正製造、再進廠都好幾年之後了，搞不好轉機客都已經進來了，所以我們當然希望第一階段能夠快一點。剛剛院長特別說會盡力幫忙，在評估的時候，我們當然也知道有一些道理。那天我們在桃園市政府開會的時候，王部長也特別說，以目前你們計畫計算的方式，這60億怎麼計算呢？行政院與交通部認為直達車跟中央政策相關，地方則是承載了中央國門的責任，因為這是國境進出的重要交通工具，它就是進進出出，搞不好也不到城市裡面來，這部分中央補助84%，等於補助大部分。我覺得這合理，真的合理，因為有些人拿了行李就上飛機了，既不到桃園也不到新北。所以我要問一下部長，這84%是因為它承載了國境出入，才有這樣的考量是不是？"],["王部長國材：是，對。"],["魯委員明哲：你們內部的討論是這樣嗎？"],["王部長國材：對，鄭副院長有開過會，直達車比較像國家的門面在進出，普通車則比較地方，像臺北捷運有地方性……"],["陳院長建仁：像捷運。"],["王部長國材：所以現在直達車84%，以60億算起來大概是30億。"],["魯委員明哲：普通車你們的補助是0%，0%的原因是城際，現在有三個城市：桃園、新北、臺北，每一站來來去去，是人民走動的過程，這點我理解。這個推斷的邏輯，我真的可以接受，如果普通車真的是這樣的話。但我覺得這個思考有一點北向思考，就是有臺北的觀點，因為直達車目前主要是跑臺北，新北停兩站後，就直接殺進機場，對不對？。現在一天幾十班裡，大概有八到九輛列車跑到中壢、青埔站，有是有，但絕大部分都在臺北出發，那是首都，我沒有意見喔，我沒有意見，首都是這樣的。但是南向思考，我們要往南邊走的人呢？這些旅客呢？國人或旅客要從機場南端進國門，有沒有用機捷這件事啦？所以我現在在討論這個事情。","因為A23站是中壢火車站，難得一條機捷串接了臺北火車站是頭，尾巴到了中壢火車站，這兩個很特別啊，可是我跟你講，臺北火車站有直達車，中壢沒有直達車，對不對？就算我們再幾年蓋好之後，中壢沒有直達車，因為訊號的關係，我們在前面兩站就用手動切了，車沒有辦法直接衝進來啦，所以只能用普通車。所以以南向的思考來說，中壢火車站你們的預估是再2、3年會正式通車，這些從南向坐火車、臺鐵來的國人或外國旅客，他不是從臺北市進站，他是從中壢火車站進站，但他唯一能搭的就只有普通車喔，所以我要特別拜託。高鐵的運量更大，到了高鐵站，他也不可能等你直達車啦，因為一小時不到一班。","所以我的意思是說，如果普通車真的能在科學上、數據上證明它沒有國門的功能，你給我0%，沒意見！但如果證明是有，我這邊拜託院長、部長還要繼續討論。它確實有承載，承載的實際數據我不是在說故事，中壢站還沒通喔，中壢站一通，我相信火車串接的人會更多。現況就是南端從青埔到中壢A22，還沒到火車站，是前一站，在整個中壢市區跟青埔地區，我抓一個月的期間，從2月21日到3月21日，就是到昨天為止，這幾個站的進站人數是51萬8，就是從那邊跑進來的，要去什麼目的地的都有，去臺北的也有，但目的地是在A12、A13跟A14a機場旅館站的總共是19萬7,000多人，也就是說，具體的數字是很多人搭乘普通車，因為他們沒有直達車，其中38%的人就是直接去機場，所以我要拜託。","這個數據我私下再給交通部，再給行政院，你們參考一下。我在講的是普通車也承載了南向的國人、旅客直接要去機場這樣的一個國家責任，所以我覺得應該要給予補助。這個部分的數字如果是這樣，院長是不是能夠補助，至少不能是0%吧？"],["陳院長建仁：謝謝委員跟捷運公司調出資料，我們以往沒有這樣的數據，這個數據當然也就請桃園市政府提供在會議上，讓鄭副院長也能夠納入考慮。確實啦，如果是這樣的話，那就要看哪一些，我不曉得這個數據做的是從哪裡進站的……"],["魯委員明哲：青埔地區，A17是青埔，有三站，青埔地區就是中壢的青埔，跟高鐵，一直到中壢市區。"],["陳院長建仁：如果說從青埔去的話……"],["魯委員明哲：對，青埔到中壢市區，上車要往北向，坐到站點要下車的有這麼多。這樣好不好？因為他們沒有直達車，但他們也要執行像直達車同樣的目的，所以我是在這裡拜託，資料你們去調好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：我曉得你的意思啦……"],["魯委員明哲：我只提供一個意見，你們可以調一整年的，好不好？但是拜託，普通車不要0%，因為它也承載著國家責任，這是我今天拜託你們的，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：好，給部長做一個回應。"],["王部長國材：委員，你知道機場捷運當時是兩段連起來的，一個是當時桃園的紫線，另一個是機場到臺北的通勤路線，它的精神是這樣，這是地區的捷運……"],["魯委員明哲：好啦，部長，謝謝你啦，院長都說要考慮了，就拜託你回去考慮一下！","因為我時間不太夠了，接下來要請教一個重大的問題，是我在上一屆立委一上任時主要關心的問題，一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的問題。3年前，110年3月，整整3年前我提出總質詢，交通部當時應該已經是王部長任內了。我只想問一件事情，因為當時這個部分是走到工程細設發包了，工程動工的時間預計是111年4月，現在的時間點是113年3月，我想請教一下，這樣好不好，因為院長可能軌道工程管太多，我想請教部長。民眾也在問我完工日期，這三站（桃園、內壢、中壢）是118年4月，其他的是119年7月，這個部分還是這樣嗎？因為2月29日我跟邱若華二位交通委員會委員跟你們開會，你們提供我的資料還是這個日期，還是嗎？確定嗎？要不要校正一下？"],["王部長國材：我跟魯委員報告，應該各加3年。"],["魯委員明哲：各加3年喔？"],["王部長國材：原因第一個是桃園站的文資，第二個因為平鎮的延伸現在要放到這一期裡面，所以應該各加3年。"],["魯委員明哲：再加3年喔？"],["王部長國材：各加3年。"],["魯委員明哲：你很老實，那我可以下課了。但是拜託你不要再給我這個報告，今天你跟我說再加3年，跟我說真心話，可是3個禮拜前你就沒跟我講真心話。","好啦，今天的情況你也知道，現在施工進度只有平鎮開工了，總工程、主體工程的全工程進度只有0.18%而已，距離還很遠。這個我沒有要怪誰啦，就是事實的資料，讓民眾期待……"],["王部長國材：最大的部分是在平鎮，桃園市政府認為要放到這一期，但平鎮剛剛從可行性開始，其他都在施工了，就會被它拖到。"],["魯委員明哲：好，部長，其實今天就一次講清楚，反正立法院都有紀錄。平鎮站當然大家知道會延期嘛，可是我們先不要講平鎮發生的事，大家看前面3個，當時承諾118年4月會完工的桃園、內壢、中壢三個站，現在發生什麼事呢？當然我也謝謝鐵道局的努力，終於發包出去了，有發包出去不錯了，但是現在發包出去的，我們一看工期，桃園站預計7月開工，你們跟人家合約所簽訂的日曆天工期，公共工程委員會也在這裡，你們簽訂的工期是2,464天，要6年多的時間。簡單來說，就算沒有任何不可歸責於廠商的理由，一天都不延也要到120年，對不對？中壢也是啊，要到120年5月，所以你的意思是說，118年是本來的完工期，加3年，所以我就沒有意見了，因為工程一定還會再延一點。","尤其桃園站現在有三大不確定會造成比較大的延期因素，第一個就是您剛剛很了解的，平鎮南延1.2公里，那個比較嚴重耶，因為現在修改計畫之後還要重新環境評估、環差分析再來走一遍，其實我聽了有一點頭痛。第二個是桃園站的文資問題，文資問題我覺得要積極啦。第三個就是經費的問題，我要拜託，現在是從另外一個角度來反瞻這個問題：現在桃園鐵路地下化發生什麼事了？其實我們最近都在問，還有三個站還沒招標出去嘛，內壢站、桃園醫院站跟新北的鳳鳴站，我一再問說，四個站今年終於標出去了，另外三個怎麼不標、不標、不標，結果私下了解發現是沒錢了！","沒錢的原因是我們只有1,048億。報告院長、部長，你們看一下，下面幾個數據就是我們細設PCM大約匡了20億，用地費匡66億，然後臨時工程、主體工程，還有一些監造，總共加起來，不含這些還沒發包的是960億，所以當年核定的1,048億，如果加上5%還是幾%的公共工程要扣人員費用，其實錢用完了，沒有錢了！所以我現在很煩惱，平鎮這部分要重新提一個修正計畫，它現在要把內壢站、桃醫站、鳳鳴站整個包進去，去走一個奇幻旅遊，奇幻旅遊就一直等，等、等、等。其他三個本來沒問題的嘛，只是差錢，但把它包進去就要等環差分析，要等重新送國發會整個繞一圈，因為我們很多工程繞幾圈我都清楚，我很害怕！可是第一個，原來的1,046億現在幾乎很明確會變成1,500億以上，那這個部分經費會不會有問題？部長，你覺得呢？"],["王部長國材：對，包括南延還有整個物價上漲的部分，我們粗估會增加700億。"],["魯委員明哲：增加多少？"],["王部長國材：700億。"],["魯委員明哲：700億嘛？"],["王部長國材：對，然後……"],["魯委員明哲：你今天是吃了老實藥來的？"],["王部長國材：我從來都實話實說，因為你沒有問過我。然後這個修正計畫現在已經完成了，準備來報修正計畫。"],["魯委員明哲：所以增加700億喔？"],["王部長國材：對，整體。"],["魯委員明哲：因為我這邊算就至少是500億，所以你說增加700億，我是覺得就一次把可能的情況講清楚，這種東西不要微調，也許民眾覺得，哇！怎麼那麼多，但這是事實上大家在這個領域提出具體核算的數字。因為我問鐵道局局長，他死不講耶，他沒有吃那個老實樹的藥，所以他死不講，他說可能一毛都沒增加，哇靠！但是今天把這個事情講清楚……"],["陳院長建仁：不可能一毛錢都……"],["魯委員明哲：所以現在要非常積極。我也要拜託院長，不管未來因為要扯到國發會，又要再繞一圈，又要我們行政院，我想我們現在可以去做的、可以去評估的，我要拜託要簡化鳳鳴站、桃醫站跟內壢站的整個過程，不要讓他們再受一次折磨跟大家排隊，能不能讓他們先排出來？這三案先走，然後再處理平鎮延伸案，因為它還要做環差分析，速度會慢一點，這個部分是不是請你們能夠考量分工、分別來做處理，可以嗎？"],["王部長國材：你的意思是說分段通車嗎？分段嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：分段建設？"],["魯委員明哲：不是啦！我說工程啦！因為工程……"],["王部長國材：喔，工程喔？報告委員，我們現在就發包，該走就走，然後那個趕快追過來。"],["魯委員明哲：我知道嘛，現在內壢站你要等，你聽不懂嗎？你整個繞完之後，環差分析我跟你講要一年啦，一年之後你才讓它發包，我跟你講，其他的工程是含有站體的喔，它的複雜性不像平鎮延伸工程只是讓地下軌道拉長，相對的工程、工法、工期會減少很多，所以你不能讓它們弄在一起，否則到最後，不好意思喔，最後平鎮那個地下會先挖好，那有什麼用！"],["王部長國材：我了解。我了解。"],["魯委員明哲：所以，我要拜託院長、部長，我今天講這個，拜託你，這三個工期都要很久，一定要讓它們單獨一個案子先跑，讓它們先發包，平鎮這部分要經過環境部或是怎麼樣，它的程序會稍微慢一點，但是它的工程會快一點，可不可以朝這個方向來做？"],["王部長國材：大概也是這個方向，就是說在跑的時候讓它整個時間能夠縮短、整體完工的時間縮短。"],["魯委員明哲：楊局長，是不是這樣？看你的臉色好像不太同意喔？拜託啦，這三個只欠東風（錢）的案子讓它們先跑，趕快找到錢先發包；另外一個還有很多行政程序要經過國發會的，我們再另外透過行政來推動，好不好？我就做這樣的拜託，也希望院長能夠再多幫忙。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["魯委員明哲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝魯明哲委員的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來登記第26號賴委員惠員、登記第27號林委員楚茵、登記第28號王委員世堅等三位委員之質詢，均以書面提出，請行政院書面答復並列入紀錄、刊登公報。"],["委員賴惠員書面質詢：","問題一：新營火車站建設狀況","有鑑於新營火車站為選區內最重要的大眾運輸設施，惟設備較為老舊、且由於屬平面鐵路，造成前後站間發展不均等問題。本席於第十屆立法委員任內為提升新營火車站站區多元機能、整周邊動線與土地利用，提出「新營火車站大平台計畫」。","1.請問本計畫目前進度？何時可以開始新建工程？","2.針對現階段周遭行車動線及停車位稀缺等問題，目前有和解決方案？","3.針對現有月台老舊及破損問題，請台鐵公司盡速完成改善。","4.查新營火車站目前為一等站，同時管理後壁及柳營車站，但相較於其他一等站目前並無普悠瑪號停靠，對北台南居民而言僅能於嘉義或台南市區轉乘，相對較為不便，請台鐵公司研議於普悠瑪號及太魯閣號停靠新營車站的可行性，並盡速於下次改點時增加車班。","問題二：六甲高鐵站建設計畫","查高台灣現有高鐵共計11車站，惟各站之間距離並不平均，其中又以台南車站與嘉義車站之間尤為嚴重。由於台南市南北間距離較長，現有台南雖已於沙崙設站，但由於位於台南市南端，與上一站嘉義站之間有長達62公里的距離。此外，溪北及舊縣區有將近120萬人口，與現有車站之彰化縣相近，但僅能奔波至嘉義或南台南搭乘。此外溪北尚有新營產業園區、柳營科技園區、台南科學園區、蘭花生技園區等動要科技、農業發展重鎮，其交通便利性應受重視！","1.本席109年就一直希望增設六甲高鐵站，請問相關方案評估目前是否有進度？","2.請交通部針對是否可增設六甲高鐵站進行可行性評估，其中應包含建設可行性、替代方案、轉乘方案等便利搭乘高鐵措施。","問題三：新營交流道增設出口或高架化可行性","查新營交流道係新營產業園區對外交通重要樞紐，上下班期間用路人口多且交流道周遭平面道路壅塞等原因，嚴重影響周邊上班族交通及整體發展。","為此，本席於第十屆立法委員任內提出新營交流道改善工程計畫，原預計於去年底可完成可行性評估：","1.請問目前本件是否已經完成可行性評估？","2.若已完成評估，本件高公局何時可以完成審議？何時可以開始新建工程？"],["委員林楚茵書面質詢：","一、新北市公車Wi-Fi系統現華為介面，恐有中國資安滲透疑慮","日前媒體報導，有民眾搭乘新北市公車並連結公車提供之Wi-Fi時，畫面卻顯示中國廠商華為之介面，引發國人討論新北市公車使用中國廠商之無線網路軟體服務，是否產生資安破口讓中國趁虛而人。此事件並非首次發生，新北市公車同樣在2019年時被民眾發現公車Wi-Fi設備是使用華為設備。","經查，行政院曾於2020年12月18日以院台護長字第1090201804A號函通令各公務機關公務用之資通訊產品不得使用中國品牌等事宜，並進行相關清查。而新北市政府交通局同樣澄清，目前清查該市2,500輛公車，皆未使用華為Wi-Fi設備。","依據《資通安全管理法》第五條，主管機關應定期公布國家資通安全情勢報告、對公務機關資通安全維護計畫實施情形稽核概況報告及資通安全發展方案等，但根據數位發展部資通安全署所公布之111年度公務機關資安稽核概況報告指出，受稽機關分別共有17個中央機關，並無地方政府相關單位。","鑒於前述事件係屬地方政府權責，考量公車系統為大眾運輸系統，與公共安全息息相關。又2022年8月，時任美國眾議院議長Pelosi女士訪台期間台灣屢遭境外資安攻擊，甚至台鐵廣告看板皆有影響。因此數位發展部針對資通安全稽核分，是否仍舊僅限於中央機關，值得探討。爰此，數位發展部應針對地方政府公務機關的資安稽核情形，或資安發展方案提供相關督導機制，如有法令窒礙難行空間，也應提出修法計畫。","二、連江縣政府交通旅遊局協助辦理「福馬同城通」，交通部知情否？","中共國務院於2023年9月12日發布《中共中央國務院關於支持福建探索海峽兩岸融合發展新路建設兩岸融合發展示範區的意見》，簡稱為「福建對台21條」，主要是以三個方針對台灣進行統戰，分別是以通促融、以惠促融、以情促融，並且設定以福建省為重點工作區域，計畫設置所謂的「兩岸融合發展示範區」，而這三個示範區分別是以「金門+廈門」、「福州+馬祖」成立「共同生活圈」，以及加速「平潭綜合實驗區」的發展。","今年2月起，中共福建省政府更宣布開辦「福馬同城通」交通卡，意圖藉由形塑「福州+馬祖」共同生活圈，以達到統戰目的。然而，連江縣政府北竿鄉公所卻直接在公所網站公告代辦福馬同城通卡（圖1），先至網站表格填寫資料後，鄉公所會再彙整交由連江縣交通旅遊局，連江縣交旅局再交由中國官方協助申請福馬同城通卡，而且審查權限完全交由中國政府。","經查「內政部審查地方政府與大陸地區地方機關之合作行為或締結聯盟申報須知」第二條，地方政府欲與中國地方機關進行合作，必須會商中央目的事業主管機關辦理。爰此，連江縣交旅局協助中共福建省政府代辦福馬同城通卡一事，必須依照此申報須知應送中央目的事業主管機關辦理，也就是交通部。","請交通部說明，連江縣政府交通旅遊局針對此項與中共福建省政府合作行為是否有送交通部，並由交通部共同辦理？倘若交通部未曾收到連江縣政府之申請，請問行政院將如何回應處理？"],["委員王世堅書面質詢：","一、「行車變換車道未打方向燈」檢舉案件不斷，實務上員警執法鮮少針對連續行為連續舉發，但經民眾檢舉者卻不得不罰，本席認為爰有逾越警察裁量權、違反比例原則之爭議，特此詢問行政院院長、交通部：","(一)去年未依規定使用方向燈違規案件多達108萬3千餘件","據警政統計，去年未依規定使用方向燈違規案件高達108萬3千607件，已造成警力負擔過重；例如有一位王姓駕駛人騎乘機車，穿梭於巷弄間，於2分鐘內3次在不同路口轉彎皆未依規定打方向燈，遭後方車輛連續檢舉，「2分鐘內舉發3次」舉發違規之間隔過密、次數過多，2分鐘內舉發3次，舉發違規之間隔過密、次數過多，更有機車騎士曾一次接七單全是罰單，總共要吃8400元罰鍰，顯然違反比例原則！","(二)民眾檢舉害警察無法行使裁量權、違反比例原則被法院認證","前述「2分鐘內舉發3次」案經臺南地方法院認其第1次未打方向燈遭罰，於法並無不合，但後續2次違規行為密集，該裁罰違反比例原則及連續舉發規定而撤銷原處分。另亦有報載曾姓民眾駕車行經國道1號北向入口匝道，1分鐘內2度變換車道未打方向燈，被民眾檢舉遭開2張3千元罰單，案經臺中地方法院認為違規時間、地點均不相同，應分別處罰而駁回，顯見「民眾檢舉害警察無法行使裁量權、違反比例原則已被法院認證」，類此案例有多少？請交通部一周內提供統計資料。","(三)請交通部於一個月內研議未打方向燈遭民眾檢舉之異議申訴方案","雖說按「違反道路交通管理事件統一裁罰基準及處理細則」規定，逕行舉發汽機車未打方向燈，若違規地點相距6公里以上、違規時間相隔6分鐘以上或行駛經過1個路口以上者，方得連續舉發，但實務上對於民眾檢舉，交通部去年12月5日曾函式：「針對違停才需要審認，不符合違規規定才能被駁回，但『未打方向燈』竟不在此限」，本席認為並不合理，請交通部於一個月內研議未打方向燈遭檢舉之異議申訴方案。","(四)通盤檢討修正現行法令所定連續舉發裁罰有關規範","1.本席同意道交條例允許執法員警得以連續舉發裁罰警惕、遏阻交通違規行為，以達維護交通秩序與安全之行政管制目的，惟仍須符合憲法第23條比例原則、授權明確性原則及行政程序法上一般法律原則。","2.近日交通部考量「放寬民眾檢舉項目及增加記違規點數項目，致案件量暴增、1年內記違規點數每達12點即吊扣駕駛執照，各界反映已嚴重影響職業駕駛人工作權，並造成警察機關執法量能龐大負擔、且民眾檢舉制度已悖離當初彌補警力不足之立法目的，記違規點數制度亦因道路實際環境配套措施尚未完備衍生實務問題，相關社會爭議亟需解決」等因素，檢討放寬最高罰鍰1,200元以下輕微違規限縮不予民眾檢舉，及當場舉發案件可確認實際駕駛人始予記點，惟並「未放寬每年近百萬件檢舉的未依規定使用方向燈」，請交通部於一周內研議針對情狀輕微之未打方向燈違規案件，是否應一併限縮不予民眾檢舉？","3.「一行為不二罰原則」（禁止雙重處罰原則），乃法治國家依法安定原則、信賴保護原則及比例原則所導出之憲法基本權要求。民眾檢舉舉發案件，理應也適用連續舉發之限制規範，然而交通部卻對法規目的性限縮（交通部2018年11月22日交路字第1070028628號函），認為現行道交條例第85條之1第2項所定第7條之2逕行舉發案件得予連續舉發之限制，尚不宜擴張適用於第7條之1之民眾檢舉舉發案件。請交通部一個月內研議將第7條之1的民眾檢舉舉發案件納入連續舉發限制規範之適用範圍。","二、台鐵太魯閣號列車於2021年4月2日，因撞上邊坡滑落的工程車出軌，造成慘重傷亡，本席針對「邊坡全自動監視預警系統」、「車輛入侵告警系統」及「緊急斷電系統」等建置進度，特此詢問行政院院長、台鐵公司：","(一)邊坡全自動監視預警系統","台鐵公司目前共建置26處「邊坡全自動監視預警系統」所，該系統自112年4月起上線監看至今已逾一年，但皆僅為環境因素（如野生動物入侵軌道、天候雨滴及陽光陰影等因素）才導致告警，尚無因邊坡滑動或落石所啟動之告警，但這兩年年落石侵入軌道之新聞仍有不少，如2023年7月23日土石流侵入集集支線隘寮段、今年3月台鐵九曲堂站民眾闖軌道遭鳴笛聲嚇到摔落邊坡等等；故請台鐵公司一個月內提供近3年所有邊坡異物侵入軌道之記錄、並說明告警系統「零啟動」之原因。","(二)邊坡滑動告警系統","台鐵公司目前於營運路線上之地質敏感區、環境災害潛勢區或曾發生災害等高風險路段，已陸續於37處邊坡完成地工監測儀器設置，總計有119組（水位計、傾度管、地錨荷重計、傾斜儀等），均定期由專業技師依監測數值評估邊坡狀態，適時提供專業判斷及後續因應作為，自去年建置完成至今，亦無因邊坡滑動或落石所啟動之告警；故請台鐵公司一個月內提供近3年所有邊坡滑動之記錄、並說明告警系統「零啟動」之原因。","(三)車輛入侵告警系統","依鐵路法第59條第四款：「臨近鐵路之公路高於鐵路之地段，應由該公路之主管機關，在其臨近鐵路之一邊設置護欄。」但台鐵公司自行評估後僅38處高風險路段規畫設置實體阻隔，僅15處設置告警系統且至今尚未完工，請台鐵說明選定高風險路段的標準為何？車輛入侵防護有其必要性，為何遲至今年2月才動工？並請台鐵公司一個月內提供近3年所有車輛入侵記錄？","(四)緊急斷電系統","台鐵公司的電力系統有即時保護反應裝置，若有路樹或外來物都是cycle等級（<<1秒）跳脫，目前統計112年累計共9次緊急斷電。但卻未對於月台或站區的列車設置緊急停車按鈕。另雖於平交道設有「緊急按鈕」「障礙物自動偵測系統」、車上設有「列車防護無線電」、調度所設有「1933緊急事故通報專線」、及車站「列車監視通報機制」，可以即時通知司機員緊急停車，但無從得知上開系統之效能，故請台鐵公司一個月內提供近5年所有「列車緊急停車」記錄及停車原因？告警系統是否均有啟動？"],["主席：報告院會，交通組之質詢已詢答完畢，非常感謝陳院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。","3月26日（星期二）上午9點繼續開會，進行司法及法制組之質詢。現在休息。","休息（17時49分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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1248.035, \"end\": 1271.584, \"text\": \"因為是我在上屆立委這個一上任的時候主要關心的問題一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的一個問題這是三年前110年3月整整三年前提出總諮詢去跟交通部那當時我記得應該已經是王部長那我就只想問一件事因為當時的這個部分是走到這個工程\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1248.035, \"end\": 1248.195, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1248.195, \"end\": 1248.355, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1248.355, \"end\": 1248.935, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1248.935, \"end\": 1249.215, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1249.215, \"end\": 1249.596, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"屆\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 1249.596, \"end\": 1249.736, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1249.736, \"end\": 1251.136, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1251.136, \"end\": 1251.256, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1251.256, \"end\": 1251.436, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 1251.436, \"end\": 1251.636, \"score\": 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\"還是這三站桃園內地中壢118年4月其他的是119年7月他這個部分還是這樣嗎因為你2月29號我跟邱樂華兩位交通委員跟你們開會你提供我的資料還是這個日期還是嗎確定嗎要不要校正一下應該各加三年\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1295.322, \"end\": 1296.523, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 1296.523, \"end\": 1296.743, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 1296.743, \"end\": 1297.163, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"桃\", \"start\": 1297.163, \"end\": 1297.603, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 1297.603, \"end\": 1297.783, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 1297.783, \"end\": 1299.104, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"壢\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1299.104, \"end\": 1299.504, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 1299.504, \"end\": 1300.285, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 1300.285, \"end\": 1300.465, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"他\", 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\"end\": 1305.987, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 1305.987, \"end\": 1306.968, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1306.968, \"end\": 1307.108, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1307.108, \"end\": 1307.268, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 1307.268, \"end\": 1307.788, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"樂\"}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 1307.788, \"end\": 1308.048, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 1308.048, \"end\": 1308.189, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 1308.189, \"end\": 1308.309, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1308.309, \"end\": 1308.949, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1308.949, \"end\": 1309.049, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1309.049, \"end\": 1309.889, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, 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{\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1313.691, \"end\": 1313.811, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1313.811, \"end\": 1313.951, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1313.951, \"end\": 1314.192, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 1314.192, \"end\": 1314.392, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 1314.392, \"end\": 1314.512, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1314.512, \"end\": 1314.612, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1314.612, \"end\": 1316.213, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 1316.213, \"end\": 1316.413, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 1316.413, \"end\": 1316.613, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 1316.613, \"end\": 1316.813, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1316.813, \"end\": 1316.833, \"score\": 0.002}]}, {\"start\": 1318.018, \"end\": 1330.136, \"text\": \"各加三年。原因第一個是桃園站的文資。第二個因為現在憑證的延伸要放到這一期裡面。所以應該各加三年。再加三年?各加三年,對。你老實啊,那我可以下課了。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 1318.018, \"end\": 1318.118, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 1318.118, \"end\": 1318.839, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 1318.839, \"end\": 1318.999, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1318.999, \"end\": 1319.2, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 1319.2, \"end\": 1319.36, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1319.36, \"end\": 1319.64, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 1319.64, \"end\": 1319.741, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1319.741, \"end\": 1320.001, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1320.001, \"end\": 1320.221, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"桃\", \"start\": 1320.221, \"end\": 1320.522, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 1320.522, \"end\": 1320.722, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 1477.78, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1477.78, \"end\": 1478.08, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 1478.08, \"end\": 1478.2, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 1478.2, \"end\": 1478.4, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 1478.4, \"end\": 1478.841, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 1478.841, \"end\": 1479.321, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1479.321, \"end\": 1479.541, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1479.541, \"end\": 1479.661, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1479.661, \"end\": 1479.681, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 1482.489, \"end\": 1508.249, \"text\": \"我要拜託現在這是另外一個角度來反戰現在這個問題啊。現在台灣鐵路地下化現在發生什麼事啊?其實我們最近都在問欸內地戰還有三個戰還沒超標出去嘛。內地戰我們台灣醫院戰跟那個新北的鳳鳴戰我一直在問說欸四個戰已經終於今年標出去了另外三個怎麼不標不標不標?結果私下了解沒錢了。\", 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00:01:11,937\n我們青年假還沒到那目前的一個初步的一個報導我希望能夠更好大概定房率到4成5我們希望能夠再高在春節旅遊的時候那已經過了嘛大概定房率大概到6成那其他點點滴滴就不講了有些相關產業觀光的一些店家他們也不斷的一個反應\n\n4\n00:01:13,078 --> 00:01:13,518\n我請部長來回答。\n\n5\n00:01:42,627 --> 00:02:01,464\n事實上現在國旅在那個假日還是很熱我跟這個委員報告那當然就是說冬天比較差是在離島的部分那前陣子我們跟離島幾個委員討論怎麼樣來做一些促銷比如說這個硬去買買一送一等等的這個促銷也在做\n\n6\n00:02:02,646 --> 00:02:23,464\n當然就是說因為國境開放以後有一些人會往國外來跑所以我們跟這個所有的觀光業在談就是說你的吸引力一定要這個能夠吸引大家願意留在國內那這部分包括我們觀光署的相關的建設計畫包括這些國境面歷緊急的計畫、風管處的相關的計畫也都在進行\n\n7\n00:02:28,468 --> 00:02:44,375\n你剛剛講這個我也非常認同因為疫情的時間我們編了很多的預算也投入了我們當時的觀光局、交通部很多的預算有些是直接希望促銷國旅的有很多是硬體的一個改善\n\n8\n00:02:44,915 --> 00:03:08,881\n那時候觀光局局長也再三不是光答應我跟委員說我們正好像各國一樣能夠藉這個時間把所有的基礎設施景點相關設施把它弄好可是我們看到最近在出國那個熱潮有沒有看到幾則報導我心裡是覺得雖然有點不服氣可是人家講的又好像是真的他說日本經過這個兩年多的疫情\n\n9\n00:03:11,081 --> 00:03:40,174\n他說已經進化升級,國旅還在原地踏步。我想講的是非常廣泛,有私部門有公部門的。你對於這句話這個報道,就是國際的很多的一個吸引觀光客在他疫情的階段他的基礎建設甚至觀光想方設法讓他提升。就是希望以後之後他能夠在世界的市場\n\n10\n00:03:41,194 --> 00:04:00,172\n蔣德投籌,你覺得臺灣這個有沒有落後?院長要不要講一下?我想這個要促進這個國旅,實際上中央政府的推動當然是很重要,我們觀光署很重要,但是地方政府也很重要。剛才賴瑞榮委員就提到,在像高雄,\n\n11\n00:04:02,114 --> 00:04:17,411\n國旅來講的話那高雄每次音樂會的時候不得了很多很多所以我們也希望說中央跟地方一起配合來發展這一個地方的觀光特色那像高雄這樣的辦了很多的這個重要的音樂會的時候\n\n12\n00:04:19,393 --> 00:04:43,725\n國旅的部分就會增加,那這個確實是需要中央跟地方一起來努力。好,院長,但是我們希望說整體啦,各個城市各有特色,各有想法,各有努力,真的很棒。那我們想整個我們居然觀光局生屬了,大家都對它有期待,我相信院長也是。那現在我請教一下,這個是今年我們希望\n\n13\n00:04:46,540 --> 00:05:02,118\n國人希望能夠旅遊,但如果國人旅遊目前還沒有辦法達到這樣的熱潮,我們希望國外來臺的旅客,不管是商務也好、純觀光的人都希望多一點。那這個部長特別有說過,今年的目標是1200萬人。\n\n14\n00:05:04,875 --> 00:05:19,344\n那你那時候也說那時候當然因為之前嘛希望那個陸客呢也能夠來台啦如果沒有辦法沒有辦法開放陸客的話也會持續想辦法努力啊那現在看起來齁看起來這個\n\n15\n00:05:21,442 --> 00:05:26,264\n的確當時觀光署1200萬裡面大概有200到250萬是入客當然就是說我們去年大概是這個狀況600萬有100萬的入客結果我們最後是648萬\n\n16\n00:05:50,991 --> 00:06:17,052\n當然我們目標是這樣那當然就是說入客能早一點開放來那當然這個目標早一點達到那如果沒有的話我們繼續來努力目前還是這個目標還沒有修正大概以這個就是扣掉入客的部分大概是1000萬不過你現在1月到2月幫你統計了118萬平均大概50接近60萬如果這樣12個月的話我再預估可能700到800萬\n\n17\n00:06:18,433 --> 00:06:46,855\n所以我覺得這是設定目標我們在這裡不是吐槽要努力要努力嘛如果現在是七八百萬到底該怎麼樣去補足那我那一天聽到了這個院長應該你也知道吧我們一年大概有五百到六百萬轉機的旅客那他的免簽證的觀光時間怎麼訂定這個我們近期內也會來做個敲定讓轉機成為觀光客的一個來源\n\n18\n00:06:48,562 --> 00:07:16,300\n說真的那天聽到我們副院長的他這一席宣布其實我個人是比較我很贊成我也很興奮為什麼大家都知道轉機客旅遊因為時間有限如果真的可乘的話機場附近的城市機場附近的景點是優先獲利我相信桃園機場桃園當然我覺得這如果可以開放很重要往北可能到盧竹新北大家都會在第一線受惠\n\n19\n00:07:16,860 --> 00:07:35,589\n那這個部分一個月過去了嘛2月22號那現在3月22號那院長那個因為這個他不是交通部的真的跨很多的一個單位的那這個部分院長你知道這個宣布嗎我我我記得當天是我我也在\n\n20\n00:07:36,670 --> 00:07:43,134\n當時副院長是希望625萬但是在跨部會包括外交包括移民署討論的時候認為說有一些轉機進來如果免簽證會有一些問題所以這個問題現在還沒有處理好\n\n21\n00:08:04,085 --> 00:08:23,700\n現在已經開始鋪鐘了嗎?沒有吧?沒有沒有沒有,現在還在還在研議中因為那個簽證的部分,免簽證有牽涉到很多課題尤其過去沒有這個不能都一定要簽證的國家你要不要在機場讓他直接免簽證寄來這個這個我在那個會議長我召開會再討論\n\n22\n00:08:27,803 --> 00:08:46,202\n好,以112年來說我們轉聚率客到達625萬當然未來是怎麼樣不清楚但至少幾百萬人五六百萬可能是一個可預期的客戶的一個來源那當然有些人很快轉聚他不可能會出來嘛所以我拜託你們趕快去研究讓\n\n23\n00:08:47,823 --> 00:09:13,343\n現在我們覺得4小時之內我覺得對於交通部也是要看一下像章宜機場他們在機場那個領域裡面那個小城市的觀光很熱門有些瀑布有些什麼綠袋很多兒童園區他有些收門票的在裡面就有產值不是存給你觀光的當然你說那免稅店大家都有我倒是覺得一、二行家看起來沒機會了\n\n24\n00:09:14,404 --> 00:09:40,675\n三行下因為還有時間我是真的是建議就是說這轉機客要去吸引到不一定時間短的他進不了城市4小時之內的我覺得如果我們有一些像世界特色機場的他去那邊都必定要去看我倒是覺得這個部分我在這裡建議你在三行下能夠考量有降德的室內的包括在那個機場\n\n25\n00:10:14,762 --> 00:10:14,782\n﹚廣告\n\n26\n00:10:29,873 --> 00:10:49,466\n一步一步向前走,這個院長你要幫忙一下雖然看守內閣但是今天總質詢我要再拜託你一件事這個事情下一段該怎麼推動因為一定有很多困難交通部要去推這個事情不管是外交部、領事務局甚至移民署這個部分我要拜託\n\n27\n00:10:50,959 --> 00:11:18,457\n委員長多費心好不好?這個部分我剛才已經講過這個已經請政府院長來召開相關各部會的這個會議那這個也正在演繹當中所以我相信這一個政府院長的這個會我們會繼續請他再來推動那剛才您講的這一些構想是不錯那現在就是我們有很多的需要解決的這一些\n\n28\n00:11:19,127 --> 00:11:19,247\n好的\n\n29\n00:11:27,603 --> 00:11:50,855\n這個未來這個機場捷運的承載的功能越來越多了當然疫情之後乘客的回流第二個當然行政院我們T-PASS很多的民眾通勤他也選擇了集結所以目前的整個這個承載的人次是快速的成長第三個當然機場國門他原本的功能那現在我們預計\n\n30\n00:11:52,136 --> 00:11:52,376\n主席\n\n31\n00:12:22,236 --> 00:12:43,646\n因應未來的人潮需要9列的直達6列的普通。目前溝通了好幾次,行政院級我們也介入了,說大概中央目前的評估,雖然還沒有定案,還沒有確定,大概是給三分之二,直達6列。\n\n32\n00:12:45,011 --> 00:13:02,398\n普通、試煉那經費原本的大約90億現在變成60億那目前為止我相信院長你也知道我們副院長也一直在協調這件事情那這60億要怎麼補助啊這個院長這邊可不可以多幫忙一點\n\n33\n00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:29,116\n我想這個補助的情況還是會跟地方政府再來協調那這件事情我跟您報告一下實際上我們副院長跟我們桃園市政府有很密集在溝通至於這個金額是多少當然他們還會在商量的過程可是我們會盡可能的來協助這個集結購車這個我們確實是有這樣的\n\n34\n00:13:34,760 --> 00:14:03,382\n希望他們也能夠提出計畫。政策只是盡可能因為我覺得未來是不是總共要15例那我覺得至少第一階段大家達成共識先上因為這個車從訂購到真正製造在進場都好幾年之後了搞不好我們已經轉機客都已經進來了所以我們當然希望第一階段能夠快一點所以剛剛院長特別說我們盡力幫忙當然我們也知道嘛有些道理我們在評估的時候那一天\n\n35\n00:14:04,182 --> 00:14:04,603\n指打車﹚\n\n36\n00:14:15,984 --> 00:14:42,296\n我們這個行政院跟交通部認為跟中央政策相關地方是承載了中央的一個國門的責任因為主要國境進出它的一個重要的交通工具它就進進出出搞不好也不到我們城市裡面來這個部分中央補助84%就得補助大部分因為我覺得這合理啦真的合理因為有些人拿行李就去上飛機了也不到桃園也不到新北齁那\n\n37\n00:14:44,161 --> 00:15:00,443\n所以部長我要問一下最主要84%的來源他是承載了國進出入所以才這樣考量的是不是?你們在內部的討論是這樣嗎?對這個政務院長有開過會就是直達車比較像是國家的門面在進出\n\n38\n00:15:02,383 --> 00:15:25,931\n普通車比較地方,像台北捷運地方性的,所以他現在就是用直達車84%,那剛才談到60億,算起來就大概30億了。這個普通車,因為你們普通車變零趴,零趴的原因是你們的成績啦,現在三個城市嘛,桃園、新北、台北,你們自己每一站來來去去,人民走動的過程,我理解啦。\n\n39\n00:15:26,531 --> 00:15:44,568\n其實這個推斷的邏輯我是真的是可以接受如果普通車真的是這樣的話但是我是覺得這個思考有一點北向思考就是說我有台北的觀點因為我直達車目前主要是跑台北新北停兩站就直接殺進機場\n\n40\n00:15:46,509 --> 00:16:06,234\n主要當然現在一天幾十班裡面有給大概8到9個列車也讓他跑到中壢金浦站是有但是絕大部分都在臺北出發那首都我沒有意見我沒有意見首都是這樣的那可是南向思考\n\n41\n00:16:07,054 --> 00:16:20,281\n我們要往南邊走的人呢?這些旅客呢?或者國人或者旅客要從機場南端要進國門有沒有用機捷這件事啦?所以我現在在討論這個事情因為A23站是中壢火車站\n\n42\n00:16:28,005 --> 00:16:55,312\n難得一條季節連串接了臺北火車站是頭尾巴到了中壢火車站這兩個很特別可是我跟你講臺北火車站有直搭車中壢沒有直搭車對不對就算我們現在在幾年蓋好之後中壢沒有直搭車因為訊號的關係我們在前面兩站就用手動切就切了車沒有辦法直接衝進來所以他只能\n\n43\n00:16:56,532 --> 00:17:08,419\n普通車所以在南向的思考當中立火車站在你們預估嗎可能在兩年三年正式通車了這些從南向做火車\n\n44\n00:17:10,094 --> 00:17:27,071\n台鐵來的不管是國人或者外國的旅客他不是從台北市進站他從中壢火車站進站但他唯一搭的就是可能就只有普通車所以我要特別拜託那到高鐵\n\n45\n00:17:47,683 --> 00:18:02,217\n但如果證明是有我這邊拜託院長部長因為還要繼續討論他確實有承載承載的實際的數據呢那不是說故事中立站還沒通喔中立站一通我相信火車串接的人會更多現況\n\n46\n00:18:04,557 --> 00:18:16,184\n就是我南端從清普到中壢A22還沒到火山前一站在整個中壢市區跟清普地區這一個月我抓一個月2月21號到3月21號到昨天為止這幾個站進站人數51萬8\n\n47\n00:18:23,727 --> 00:18:49,009\n進站就從那邊跑進來,進站要去什麼目的地呢?都有,去台北也有。但是他們的目的地是在A12、13跟14A機場的那個旅館的,總共是19萬7千多人。也就是說具體的數字,很多人搭乘普通車,因為他沒有直搭車,有38%的人就是直接去機場。\n\n48\n00:18:50,891 --> 00:19:13,933\n所以我要拜託這個數據我想私下我再給交通部我再給行政院你們參考一下我在講的是普通車也承載了南向我們的國人旅客直接要去機場的這樣的一個國家的責任所以我覺得應該要給予補助這個部分如果數字是這樣院長你是不是能夠至少不能是0%吧\n\n49\n00:19:15,574 --> 00:19:40,049\n我想這個謝謝委員跟捷運公司調出這個資料因為我們以往沒有這樣的一個數據那這個數據當然也就請這個桃園市政府來提供在會議上讓這個政府院長也能夠納入考慮那確實你如果說是這樣的話那就要看說哪一些我不曉得他這個數據\n\n50\n00:19:42,350 --> 00:20:02,748\n做的是從哪裏進站的?親埔地區A17是親埔有三站親埔地區有中壢和親埔跟高鐵一直到中壢市區從親埔去的話對親埔到中壢市區上車要往北向坐到站點下車有這麼多這樣的好不好?\n\n51\n00:20:03,328 --> 00:20:07,813\n我只提供一個意見你們可以掉一整年的好不好但是拜託普通車不要零趴他也承載了國家責任這是我今天\n\n52\n00:20:22,529 --> 00:20:23,410\n接下來要請教一個重大的問題\n\n53\n00:20:48,035 --> 00:21:11,584\n因為是我在上屆立委這個一上任的時候主要關心的問題一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的一個問題這是三年前110年3月整整三年前提出總諮詢去跟交通部那當時我記得應該已經是王部長那我就只想問一件事因為當時的這個部分是走到這個工程\n\n54\n00:21:16,223 --> 00:21:33,552\n公程動工預計是111年4月,現在的時間點是113年的3月。我想請教一下,因為院長可能軌道工程他管太多,我想請教部長。民眾人在問我,完工日期\n\n55\n00:21:35,322 --> 00:21:56,833\n還是這三站桃園內地中壢118年4月其他的是119年7月他這個部分還是這樣嗎因為你2月29號我跟邱樂華兩位交通委員跟你們開會你提供我的資料還是這個日期還是嗎確定嗎要不要校正一下應該各加三年\n\n56\n00:21:58,018 --> 00:22:10,136\n各加三年。原因第一個是桃園站的文資。第二個因為現在憑證的延伸要放到這一期裡面。所以應該各加三年。再加三年?各加三年,對。你老實啊,那我可以下課了。\n\n57\n00:22:13,449 --> 00:22:39,930\n但是拜託不要再給我這個報告你說今天再加三年跟我講真心話可是三個禮拜你就沒跟我講真心話好啦那今天的情況那你也知道就現在施工進度只有憑證開工啦就總工程主體工程他的全工程進度0.18而已啦距離還很遠啦這我沒有要怪誰啦就是事實的資料讓民眾期待\n\n58\n00:22:40,490 --> 00:22:40,510\n臨時訪問委員\n\n59\n00:22:58,371 --> 00:23:09,137\n的站當然大家知道會延期嘛可是我們講先不要講憑證好不好先不要講憑證發生的事大家看前面三個是當時承諾108年世衛會完工的\n\n60\n00:23:12,073 --> 00:23:35,159\n桃園內立中立三站說我們118年會完工的現在發生什麼事呢當然我也謝謝鐵道局努力啦終於發包出去了啦所以我倒不是在有發包出去不錯了但是現在發包出去我們一看工期嘛以桃園站預計7月開工你們跟他合約簽訂的日曆天的工期嘛公共工程委員委員會也在這裡嘛\n\n61\n00:23:36,179 --> 00:23:59,049\n兩千四百六十四天啊將近六年多的時間啊我就簡單就是沒有任何的理由再來常常不可規則的一天都不延也要到一百二十年對不對那終於也是啊到一百二十年五月所以你的意思說一百一十八年本來的你加三年所以我就沒有意見了就比如說\n\n62\n00:24:00,430 --> 00:24:12,106\n一定會有還要工程一定還會演一點有桃園戰現在有三大不確定會造成比較大延期的因素第一個就是您剛剛很了解的憑證難言\n\n63\n00:24:15,387 --> 00:24:39,681\n1.2公里那個比較嚴重耶因為現在修改計畫之後還要重新環境評估、環差分析再來走一遍其實我聽了有一點頭痛那第二個是桃園站的文資問題文資的問題但是我覺得要積極啦要積極那當然第三個其實就是經費的問題\n\n64\n00:24:42,489 --> 00:25:08,249\n我要拜託現在這是另外一個角度來反戰現在這個問題啊。現在台灣鐵路地下化現在發生什麼事啊?其實我們最近都在問欸內地戰還有三個戰還沒超標出去嘛。內地戰我們台灣醫院戰跟那個新北的鳳鳴戰我一直在問說欸四個戰已經終於今年標出去了另外三個怎麼不標不標不標?結果私下了解沒錢了。\n\n65\n00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:30,901\n沒錢的原因呢?我們只有一千零四十八億吧?報告院長部長你們看一下下面幾個數據就是我們系社PCM大約框了二十一用地費框六十六億然後臨時站臨時工程主體工程還有一些監照總共加起來\n\n66\n00:25:31,442 --> 00:25:32,583\n平政要重新提一個修正計劃。\n\n67\n00:25:53,660 --> 00:26:20,598\n他現在要把內力站、桃園站、鳳鳴站整個包進去啊包進去啊去走一個奇幻旅遊啊奇幻旅遊就一直等等等等其他三個本來沒問題的嘛本來沒問題只是差錢但你把它包進去他就要等環差分析他要等重新國發會整個繞一圈因為我很多工程繞幾圈我都清楚我很害怕可是第一個\n\n68\n00:26:21,926 --> 00:26:42,271\n原來的1046億現在幾乎很明確會變成1500億以上,那這個部分經費會不會有問題?這個部長覺得?包括南沿還有包括整個物價上漲的部分,我們初估會增加700億。\n\n69\n00:26:43,831 --> 00:26:44,732\n施政計畫現在已經完成了,準備來報施政計畫。\n\n70\n00:26:58,806 --> 00:27:27,151\n所以增加700億,好,因為我這邊算就至少是500億啦,所以你說真的700億,我是覺得就一次把大概的可能情況講清楚,這種東西不要微調,也許民眾覺得哇怎麼那麼多,但是事實上大家在這個領域提出具體的核算的數字,因為我問鐵道局局長啊,他死不講耶,他沒有吃那個老實素的藥,所以他死不講,他說可能一毛沒增加,哇靠。\n\n71\n00:27:28,512 --> 00:27:57,131\n但是今天把這個事情講清楚所以現在要非常積極我要拜託院長要不管未來因為要扯到國發會又要再繞一圈又要我們行政院我想現在可以去做的可以去評估的我要拜託要簡化鳳鳴站、陶藝站、內地的整個過程不要讓他們再受折磨一次大家排隊能不能讓他們先排出來這三案先走然後憑證延伸案\n\n72\n00:27:58,151 --> 00:28:07,097\n因為他還要環差分析嘛。他的速度會慢一點。這個部分是不是請你們考量能夠分工分別來做一個處理可以嗎?\n\n73\n00:28:07,987 --> 00:28:19,997\n你意思是說分斷通車的意思是嗎?分斷嗎?不是啦,我說工程啦。喔工程喔,我們現在就花包,現在該走就走。我知道啦,你現在內力,你整個繞完之後,環差分析我跟你講一年啦。\n\n74\n00:28:28,052 --> 00:28:48,351\n一年之後你才讓他發包。我跟你講喔,其他的工程是含有暫提的喔,含有暫提的。它的複雜性不像平正延伸工程,它只是地下讓軌道拉長,它相對的工程、工法、工期會減少很多。所以你不能讓他們弄在一起。到最後,\n\n75\n00:28:49,111 --> 00:28:53,354\n拜託這三個公職都要很久,一定要讓他們先一個單獨一個案子先跑,讓他們先發報,憑證要經過這個\n\n76\n00:29:11,143 --> 00:29:12,824\n楊局長是不是這樣?你好像臉色不太同意喔?\n\n77\n00:29:27,984 --> 00:29:50,176\n拜託這三個只欠東風的錢的案子讓他們先跑啦趕快找到錢先發包另外一個還有很多行政程序要經過發會的那我們在另外的行政來推動好不好我就做這樣的一個拜託也希望院長能夠再多幫忙謝謝非常謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8790\t13076\t呃謝謝呃韓院長有請我們行政院陳院長請陳院長備詢呃陳院長我看到那個我們王部長可以一起上來齁首先呢請交通部\n26469\t50700\t從去年疫情趨緩之後這個旅遊完全開放不光是國內的旅遊到國外的旅遊但我們發覺從今年開始蠻明顯的原本我們在國旅的很多的觀光業界各個產業鏈的期待憑良心講比現在會覺得說你看到這上面嗎\n51920\t71937\t我們青年假還沒到那目前的一個初步的一個報導我希望能夠更好大概定房率到4成5我們希望能夠再高在春節旅遊的時候那已經過了嘛大概定房率大概到6成那其他點點滴滴就不講了有些相關產業觀光的一些店家他們也不斷的一個反應\n73078\t73518\t我請部長來回答。\n102627\t121464\t事實上現在國旅在那個假日還是很熱我跟這個委員報告那當然就是說冬天比較差是在離島的部分那前陣子我們跟離島幾個委員討論怎麼樣來做一些促銷比如說這個硬去買買一送一等等的這個促銷也在做\n122646\t143464\t當然就是說因為國境開放以後有一些人會往國外來跑所以我們跟這個所有的觀光業在談就是說你的吸引力一定要這個能夠吸引大家願意留在國內那這部分包括我們觀光署的相關的建設計畫包括這些國境面歷緊急的計畫、風管處的相關的計畫也都在進行\n148468\t164375\t你剛剛講這個我也非常認同因為疫情的時間我們編了很多的預算也投入了我們當時的觀光局、交通部很多的預算有些是直接希望促銷國旅的有很多是硬體的一個改善\n164915\t188881\t那時候觀光局局長也再三不是光答應我跟委員說我們正好像各國一樣能夠藉這個時間把所有的基礎設施景點相關設施把它弄好可是我們看到最近在出國那個熱潮有沒有看到幾則報導我心裡是覺得雖然有點不服氣可是人家講的又好像是真的他說日本經過這個兩年多的疫情\n191081\t220174\t他說已經進化升級,國旅還在原地踏步。我想講的是非常廣泛,有私部門有公部門的。你對於這句話這個報道,就是國際的很多的一個吸引觀光客在他疫情的階段他的基礎建設甚至觀光想方設法讓他提升。就是希望以後之後他能夠在世界的市場\n221194\t240172\t蔣德投籌,你覺得臺灣這個有沒有落後?院長要不要講一下?我想這個要促進這個國旅,實際上中央政府的推動當然是很重要,我們觀光署很重要,但是地方政府也很重要。剛才賴瑞榮委員就提到,在像高雄,\n242114\t257411\t國旅來講的話那高雄每次音樂會的時候不得了很多很多所以我們也希望說中央跟地方一起配合來發展這一個地方的觀光特色那像高雄這樣的辦了很多的這個重要的音樂會的時候\n259393\t283725\t國旅的部分就會增加,那這個確實是需要中央跟地方一起來努力。好,院長,但是我們希望說整體啦,各個城市各有特色,各有想法,各有努力,真的很棒。那我們想整個我們居然觀光局生屬了,大家都對它有期待,我相信院長也是。那現在我請教一下,這個是今年我們希望\n286540\t302118\t國人希望能夠旅遊,但如果國人旅遊目前還沒有辦法達到這樣的熱潮,我們希望國外來臺的旅客,不管是商務也好、純觀光的人都希望多一點。那這個部長特別有說過,今年的目標是1200萬人。\n304875\t319344\t那你那時候也說那時候當然因為之前嘛希望那個陸客呢也能夠來台啦如果沒有辦法沒有辦法開放陸客的話也會持續想辦法努力啊那現在看起來齁看起來這個\n321442\t326264\t的確當時觀光署1200萬裡面大概有200到250萬是入客當然就是說我們去年大概是這個狀況600萬有100萬的入客結果我們最後是648萬\n350991\t377052\t當然我們目標是這樣那當然就是說入客能早一點開放來那當然這個目標早一點達到那如果沒有的話我們繼續來努力目前還是這個目標還沒有修正大概以這個就是扣掉入客的部分大概是1000萬不過你現在1月到2月幫你統計了118萬平均大概50接近60萬如果這樣12個月的話我再預估可能700到800萬\n378433\t406855\t所以我覺得這是設定目標我們在這裡不是吐槽要努力要努力嘛如果現在是七八百萬到底該怎麼樣去補足那我那一天聽到了這個院長應該你也知道吧我們一年大概有五百到六百萬轉機的旅客那他的免簽證的觀光時間怎麼訂定這個我們近期內也會來做個敲定讓轉機成為觀光客的一個來源\n408562\t436300\t說真的那天聽到我們副院長的他這一席宣布其實我個人是比較我很贊成我也很興奮為什麼大家都知道轉機客旅遊因為時間有限如果真的可乘的話機場附近的城市機場附近的景點是優先獲利我相信桃園機場桃園當然我覺得這如果可以開放很重要往北可能到盧竹新北大家都會在第一線受惠\n436860\t455589\t那這個部分一個月過去了嘛2月22號那現在3月22號那院長那個因為這個他不是交通部的真的跨很多的一個單位的那這個部分院長你知道這個宣布嗎我我我記得當天是我我也在\n456670\t463134\t當時副院長是希望625萬但是在跨部會包括外交包括移民署討論的時候認為說有一些轉機進來如果免簽證會有一些問題所以這個問題現在還沒有處理好\n484085\t503700\t現在已經開始鋪鐘了嗎?沒有吧?沒有沒有沒有,現在還在還在研議中因為那個簽證的部分,免簽證有牽涉到很多課題尤其過去沒有這個不能都一定要簽證的國家你要不要在機場讓他直接免簽證寄來這個這個我在那個會議長我召開會再討論\n507803\t526202\t好,以112年來說我們轉聚率客到達625萬當然未來是怎麼樣不清楚但至少幾百萬人五六百萬可能是一個可預期的客戶的一個來源那當然有些人很快轉聚他不可能會出來嘛所以我拜託你們趕快去研究讓\n527823\t553343\t現在我們覺得4小時之內我覺得對於交通部也是要看一下像章宜機場他們在機場那個領域裡面那個小城市的觀光很熱門有些瀑布有些什麼綠袋很多兒童園區他有些收門票的在裡面就有產值不是存給你觀光的當然你說那免稅店大家都有我倒是覺得一、二行家看起來沒機會了\n554404\t580675\t三行下因為還有時間我是真的是建議就是說這轉機客要去吸引到不一定時間短的他進不了城市4小時之內的我覺得如果我們有一些像世界特色機場的他去那邊都必定要去看我倒是覺得這個部分我在這裡建議你在三行下能夠考量有降德的室內的包括在那個機場\n582176\t598490\t﹚議員\n598490\t614462\t﹚議員﹚\n614762\t614782\t﹚廣告\n629873\t649466\t一步一步向前走,這個院長你要幫忙一下雖然看守內閣但是今天總質詢我要再拜託你一件事這個事情下一段該怎麼推動因為一定有很多困難交通部要去推這個事情不管是外交部、領事務局甚至移民署這個部分我要拜託\n650959\t678457\t委員長多費心好不好?這個部分我剛才已經講過這個已經請政府院長來召開相關各部會的這個會議那這個也正在演繹當中所以我相信這一個政府院長的這個會我們會繼續請他再來推動那剛才您講的這一些構想是不錯那現在就是我們有很多的需要解決的這一些\n679127\t679247\t好的\n687603\t710855\t這個未來這個機場捷運的承載的功能越來越多了當然疫情之後乘客的回流第二個當然行政院我們T-PASS很多的民眾通勤他也選擇了集結所以目前的整個這個承載的人次是快速的成長第三個當然機場國門他原本的功能那現在我們預計\n712136\t712376\t主席\n742236\t763646\t因應未來的人潮需要9列的直達6列的普通。目前溝通了好幾次,行政院級我們也介入了,說大概中央目前的評估,雖然還沒有定案,還沒有確定,大概是給三分之二,直達6列。\n765011\t782398\t普通、試煉那經費原本的大約90億現在變成60億那目前為止我相信院長你也知道我們副院長也一直在協調這件事情那這60億要怎麼補助啊這個院長這邊可不可以多幫忙一點\n784780\t809116\t我想這個補助的情況還是會跟地方政府再來協調那這件事情我跟您報告一下實際上我們副院長跟我們桃園市政府有很密集在溝通至於這個金額是多少當然他們還會在商量的過程可是我們會盡可能的來協助這個集結購車這個我們確實是有這樣的\n814760\t843382\t希望他們也能夠提出計畫。政策只是盡可能因為我覺得未來是不是總共要15例那我覺得至少第一階段大家達成共識先上因為這個車從訂購到真正製造在進場都好幾年之後了搞不好我們已經轉機客都已經進來了所以我們當然希望第一階段能夠快一點所以剛剛院長特別說我們盡力幫忙當然我們也知道嘛有些道理我們在評估的時候那一天\n844182\t844603\t指打車﹚\n855984\t882296\t我們這個行政院跟交通部認為跟中央政策相關地方是承載了中央的一個國門的責任因為主要國境進出它的一個重要的交通工具它就進進出出搞不好也不到我們城市裡面來這個部分中央補助84%就得補助大部分因為我覺得這合理啦真的合理因為有些人拿行李就去上飛機了也不到桃園也不到新北齁那\n884161\t900443\t所以部長我要問一下最主要84%的來源他是承載了國進出入所以才這樣考量的是不是?你們在內部的討論是這樣嗎?對 這個政務院長有開過會就是直達車比較像是國家的門面在進出\n902383\t925931\t普通車比較地方,像台北捷運地方性的,所以他現在就是用直達車84%,那剛才談到60億,算起來就大概30億了。這個普通車,因為你們普通車變零趴,零趴的原因是你們的成績啦,現在三個城市嘛,桃園、新北、台北,你們自己每一站來來去去,人民走動的過程,我理解啦。\n926531\t944568\t其實這個推斷的邏輯我是真的是可以接受如果普通車真的是這樣的話但是我是覺得這個思考有一點北向思考就是說我有台北的觀點因為我直達車目前主要是跑台北新北停兩站就直接殺進機場\n946509\t966234\t主要當然現在一天幾十班裡面有給大概8到9個列車也讓他跑到中壢金浦站是有但是絕大部分都在臺北出發那首都我沒有意見我沒有意見首都是這樣的那可是南向思考\n967054\t980281\t我們要往南邊走的人呢?這些旅客呢?或者國人或者旅客要從機場南端要進國門有沒有用機捷這件事啦?所以我現在在討論這個事情因為A23站是中壢火車站\n988005\t1015312\t難得一條季節連串接了臺北火車站是頭尾巴到了中壢火車站這兩個很特別可是我跟你講臺北火車站有直搭車中壢沒有直搭車對不對就算我們現在在幾年蓋好之後中壢沒有直搭車因為訊號的關係我們在前面兩站就用手動切就切了車沒有辦法直接衝進來所以他只能\n1016532\t1028419\t普通車所以在南向的思考當中立火車站在你們預估嗎可能在兩年三年正式通車了這些從南向做火車\n1030094\t1047071\t台鐵來的不管是國人或者外國的旅客他不是從台北市進站他從中壢火車站進站但他唯一搭的就是可能就只有普通車所以我要特別拜託那到高鐵\n1047892\t1067483\t﹗\n1067683\t1082217\t但如果證明是有我這邊拜託院長部長因為還要繼續討論他確實有承載承載的實際的數據呢那不是說故事中立站還沒通喔中立站一通我相信火車串接的人會更多現況\n1084557\t1096184\t就是我南端從清普到中壢A22還沒到火山前一站在整個中壢市區跟清普地區這一個月我抓一個月2月21號到3月21號到昨天為止這幾個站進站人數51萬8\n1103727\t1129009\t進站就從那邊跑進來,進站要去什麼目的地呢?都有,去台北也有。但是他們的目的地是在A12、13跟14A機場的那個旅館的,總共是19萬7千多人。也就是說具體的數字,很多人搭乘普通車,因為他沒有直搭車,有38%的人就是直接去機場。\n1130891\t1153933\t所以我要拜託這個數據我想私下我再給交通部我再給行政院你們參考一下我在講的是普通車也承載了南向我們的國人旅客直接要去機場的這樣的一個國家的責任所以我覺得應該要給予補助這個部分如果數字是這樣院長你是不是能夠至少不能是0%吧\n1155574\t1180049\t我想這個謝謝委員跟捷運公司調出這個資料因為我們以往沒有這樣的一個數據那這個數據當然也就請這個桃園市政府來提供在會議上讓這個政府院長也能夠納入考慮那確實你如果說是這樣的話那就要看說哪一些我不曉得他這個數據\n1182350\t1202748\t做的是從哪裏進站的?親埔地區A17是親埔有三站親埔地區有中壢和親埔跟高鐵一直到中壢市區從親埔去的話對親埔到中壢市區上車要往北向坐到站點下車有這麼多這樣的好不好?\n1203328\t1207813\t我只提供一個意見你們可以掉一整年的好不好但是拜託普通車不要零趴他也承載了國家責任這是我今天\n1222529\t1223410\t接下來要請教一個重大的問題\n1248035\t1271584\t因為是我在上屆立委這個一上任的時候主要關心的問題一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的一個問題這是三年前110年3月整整三年前提出總諮詢去跟交通部那當時我記得應該已經是王部長那我就只想問一件事因為當時的這個部分是走到這個工程\n1276223\t1293552\t公程動工預計是111年4月,現在的時間點是113年的3月。我想請教一下,因為院長可能軌道工程他管太多,我想請教部長。民眾人在問我,完工日期\n1295322\t1316833\t還是這三站桃園內地中壢118年4月其他的是119年7月他這個部分還是這樣嗎因為你2月29號我跟邱樂華兩位交通委員跟你們開會你提供我的資料還是這個日期還是嗎確定嗎要不要校正一下應該各加三年\n1318018\t1330136\t各加三年。原因第一個是桃園站的文資。第二個因為現在憑證的延伸要放到這一期裡面。所以應該各加三年。再加三年?各加三年,對。你老實啊,那我可以下課了。\n1333449\t1359930\t但是拜託不要再給我這個報告你說今天再加三年跟我講真心話可是三個禮拜你就沒跟我講真心話好啦那今天的情況那你也知道就現在施工進度只有憑證開工啦就總工程主體工程他的全工程進度0.18而已啦距離還很遠啦這我沒有要怪誰啦就是事實的資料讓民眾期待\n1360490\t1360510\t臨時訪問委員\n1378371\t1389137\t的站當然大家知道會延期嘛可是我們講先不要講憑證好不好先不要講憑證發生的事大家看前面三個是當時承諾108年世衛會完工的\n1392073\t1415159\t桃園內立中立三站說我們118年會完工的現在發生什麼事呢當然我也謝謝鐵道局努力啦終於發包出去了啦所以我倒不是在有發包出去不錯了但是現在發包出去我們一看工期嘛以桃園站預計7月開工你們跟他合約簽訂的日曆天的工期嘛公共工程委員委員會也在這裡嘛\n1416179\t1439049\t兩千四百六十四天啊將近六年多的時間啊我就簡單就是沒有任何的理由再來常常不可規則的一天都不延也要到一百二十年對不對那終於也是啊到一百二十年五月所以你的意思說一百一十八年本來的你加三年所以我就沒有意見了就比如說\n1440430\t1452106\t一定會有還要工程一定還會演一點有桃園戰現在有三大不確定會造成比較大延期的因素第一個就是您剛剛很了解的憑證難言\n1455387\t1479681\t1.2公里那個比較嚴重耶因為現在修改計畫之後還要重新環境評估、環差分析再來走一遍其實我聽了有一點頭痛那第二個是桃園站的文資問題文資的問題但是我覺得要積極啦要積極那當然第三個其實就是經費的問題\n1482489\t1508249\t我要拜託現在這是另外一個角度來反戰現在這個問題啊。現在台灣鐵路地下化現在發生什麼事啊?其實我們最近都在問欸內地戰還有三個戰還沒超標出去嘛。內地戰我們台灣醫院戰跟那個新北的鳳鳴戰我一直在問說欸四個戰已經終於今年標出去了另外三個怎麼不標不標不標?結果私下了解沒錢了。\n1509039\t1530901\t沒錢的原因呢?我們只有一千零四十八億吧?報告院長部長你們看一下下面幾個數據就是我們系社PCM大約框了二十一用地費框六十六億然後臨時站臨時工程主體工程還有一些監照總共加起來\n1531442\t1532583\t平政要重新提一個修正計劃。\n1553660\t1580598\t他現在要把內力站、桃園站、鳳鳴站整個包進去啊包進去啊去走一個奇幻旅遊啊奇幻旅遊就一直等等等等其他三個本來沒問題的嘛本來沒問題只是差錢但你把它包進去他就要等環差分析他要等重新國發會整個繞一圈因為我很多工程繞幾圈我都清楚我很害怕可是第一個\n1581926\t1602271\t原來的1046億現在幾乎很明確會變成1500億以上,那這個部分經費會不會有問題?這個部長覺得?包括南沿還有包括整個物價上漲的部分,我們初估會增加700億。\n1603831\t1604732\t施政計畫現在已經完成了,準備來報施政計畫。\n1618806\t1647151\t所以增加700億,好,因為我這邊算就至少是500億啦,所以你說真的700億,我是覺得就一次把大概的可能情況講清楚,這種東西不要微調,也許民眾覺得哇怎麼那麼多,但是事實上大家在這個領域提出具體的核算的數字,因為我問鐵道局局長啊,他死不講耶,他沒有吃那個老實素的藥,所以他死不講,他說可能一毛沒增加,哇靠。\n1648512\t1677131\t但是今天把這個事情講清楚所以現在要非常積極我要拜託院長要不管未來因為要扯到國發會又要再繞一圈又要我們行政院我想現在可以去做的可以去評估的我要拜託要簡化鳳鳴站、陶藝站、內地的整個過程不要讓他們再受折磨一次大家排隊能不能讓他們先排出來這三案先走然後憑證延伸案\n1678151\t1687097\t因為他還要環差分析嘛。他的速度會慢一點。這個部分是不是請你們考量能夠分工分別來做一個處理可以嗎?\n1687987\t1699997\t你意思是說分斷通車的意思是嗎?分斷嗎?不是啦,我說工程啦。喔工程喔,我們現在就花包,現在該走就走。我知道啦,你現在內力,你整個繞完之後,環差分析我跟你講一年啦。\n1708052\t1728351\t一年之後你才讓他發包。我跟你講喔,其他的工程是含有暫提的喔,含有暫提的。它的複雜性不像平正延伸工程,它只是地下讓軌道拉長,它相對的工程、工法、工期會減少很多。所以你不能讓他們弄在一起。到最後,\n1729111\t1733354\t拜託這三個公職都要很久,一定要讓他們先一個單獨一個案子先跑,讓他們先發報,憑證要經過這個\n1751143\t1752824\t楊局長是不是這樣?你好像臉色不太同意喔?\n1767984\t1790176\t拜託這三個只欠東風的錢的案子讓他們先跑啦趕快找到錢先發包另外一個還有很多行政程序要經過發會的那我們在另外的行政來推動好不好我就做這樣的一個拜託也希望院長能夠再多幫忙謝謝非常謝謝\n","txt":"呃謝謝呃韓院長有請我們行政院陳院長請陳院長備詢呃陳院長我看到那個我們王部長可以一起上來齁首先呢請交通部\n從去年疫情趨緩之後這個旅遊完全開放不光是國內的旅遊到國外的旅遊但我們發覺從今年開始蠻明顯的原本我們在國旅的很多的觀光業界各個產業鏈的期待憑良心講比現在會覺得說你看到這上面嗎\n我們青年假還沒到那目前的一個初步的一個報導我希望能夠更好大概定房率到4成5我們希望能夠再高在春節旅遊的時候那已經過了嘛大概定房率大概到6成那其他點點滴滴就不講了有些相關產業觀光的一些店家他們也不斷的一個反應\n我請部長來回答。\n事實上現在國旅在那個假日還是很熱我跟這個委員報告那當然就是說冬天比較差是在離島的部分那前陣子我們跟離島幾個委員討論怎麼樣來做一些促銷比如說這個硬去買買一送一等等的這個促銷也在做\n當然就是說因為國境開放以後有一些人會往國外來跑所以我們跟這個所有的觀光業在談就是說你的吸引力一定要這個能夠吸引大家願意留在國內那這部分包括我們觀光署的相關的建設計畫包括這些國境面歷緊急的計畫、風管處的相關的計畫也都在進行\n你剛剛講這個我也非常認同因為疫情的時間我們編了很多的預算也投入了我們當時的觀光局、交通部很多的預算有些是直接希望促銷國旅的有很多是硬體的一個改善\n那時候觀光局局長也再三不是光答應我跟委員說我們正好像各國一樣能夠藉這個時間把所有的基礎設施景點相關設施把它弄好可是我們看到最近在出國那個熱潮有沒有看到幾則報導我心裡是覺得雖然有點不服氣可是人家講的又好像是真的他說日本經過這個兩年多的疫情\n他說已經進化升級,國旅還在原地踏步。我想講的是非常廣泛,有私部門有公部門的。你對於這句話這個報道,就是國際的很多的一個吸引觀光客在他疫情的階段他的基礎建設甚至觀光想方設法讓他提升。就是希望以後之後他能夠在世界的市場\n蔣德投籌,你覺得臺灣這個有沒有落後?院長要不要講一下?我想這個要促進這個國旅,實際上中央政府的推動當然是很重要,我們觀光署很重要,但是地方政府也很重要。剛才賴瑞榮委員就提到,在像高雄,\n國旅來講的話那高雄每次音樂會的時候不得了很多很多所以我們也希望說中央跟地方一起配合來發展這一個地方的觀光特色那像高雄這樣的辦了很多的這個重要的音樂會的時候\n國旅的部分就會增加,那這個確實是需要中央跟地方一起來努力。好,院長,但是我們希望說整體啦,各個城市各有特色,各有想法,各有努力,真的很棒。那我們想整個我們居然觀光局生屬了,大家都對它有期待,我相信院長也是。那現在我請教一下,這個是今年我們希望\n國人希望能夠旅遊,但如果國人旅遊目前還沒有辦法達到這樣的熱潮,我們希望國外來臺的旅客,不管是商務也好、純觀光的人都希望多一點。那這個部長特別有說過,今年的目標是1200萬人。\n那你那時候也說那時候當然因為之前嘛希望那個陸客呢也能夠來台啦如果沒有辦法沒有辦法開放陸客的話也會持續想辦法努力啊那現在看起來齁看起來這個\n的確當時觀光署1200萬裡面大概有200到250萬是入客當然就是說我們去年大概是這個狀況600萬有100萬的入客結果我們最後是648萬\n當然我們目標是這樣那當然就是說入客能早一點開放來那當然這個目標早一點達到那如果沒有的話我們繼續來努力目前還是這個目標還沒有修正大概以這個就是扣掉入客的部分大概是1000萬不過你現在1月到2月幫你統計了118萬平均大概50接近60萬如果這樣12個月的話我再預估可能700到800萬\n所以我覺得這是設定目標我們在這裡不是吐槽要努力要努力嘛如果現在是七八百萬到底該怎麼樣去補足那我那一天聽到了這個院長應該你也知道吧我們一年大概有五百到六百萬轉機的旅客那他的免簽證的觀光時間怎麼訂定這個我們近期內也會來做個敲定讓轉機成為觀光客的一個來源\n說真的那天聽到我們副院長的他這一席宣布其實我個人是比較我很贊成我也很興奮為什麼大家都知道轉機客旅遊因為時間有限如果真的可乘的話機場附近的城市機場附近的景點是優先獲利我相信桃園機場桃園當然我覺得這如果可以開放很重要往北可能到盧竹新北大家都會在第一線受惠\n那這個部分一個月過去了嘛2月22號那現在3月22號那院長那個因為這個他不是交通部的真的跨很多的一個單位的那這個部分院長你知道這個宣布嗎我我我記得當天是我我也在\n當時副院長是希望625萬但是在跨部會包括外交包括移民署討論的時候認為說有一些轉機進來如果免簽證會有一些問題所以這個問題現在還沒有處理好\n現在已經開始鋪鐘了嗎?沒有吧?沒有沒有沒有,現在還在還在研議中因為那個簽證的部分,免簽證有牽涉到很多課題尤其過去沒有這個不能都一定要簽證的國家你要不要在機場讓他直接免簽證寄來這個這個我在那個會議長我召開會再討論\n好,以112年來說我們轉聚率客到達625萬當然未來是怎麼樣不清楚但至少幾百萬人五六百萬可能是一個可預期的客戶的一個來源那當然有些人很快轉聚他不可能會出來嘛所以我拜託你們趕快去研究讓\n現在我們覺得4小時之內我覺得對於交通部也是要看一下像章宜機場他們在機場那個領域裡面那個小城市的觀光很熱門有些瀑布有些什麼綠袋很多兒童園區他有些收門票的在裡面就有產值不是存給你觀光的當然你說那免稅店大家都有我倒是覺得一、二行家看起來沒機會了\n三行下因為還有時間我是真的是建議就是說這轉機客要去吸引到不一定時間短的他進不了城市4小時之內的我覺得如果我們有一些像世界特色機場的他去那邊都必定要去看我倒是覺得這個部分我在這裡建議你在三行下能夠考量有降德的室內的包括在那個機場\n﹚議員\n﹚議員﹚\n﹚廣告\n一步一步向前走,這個院長你要幫忙一下雖然看守內閣但是今天總質詢我要再拜託你一件事這個事情下一段該怎麼推動因為一定有很多困難交通部要去推這個事情不管是外交部、領事務局甚至移民署這個部分我要拜託\n委員長多費心好不好?這個部分我剛才已經講過這個已經請政府院長來召開相關各部會的這個會議那這個也正在演繹當中所以我相信這一個政府院長的這個會我們會繼續請他再來推動那剛才您講的這一些構想是不錯那現在就是我們有很多的需要解決的這一些\n好的\n這個未來這個機場捷運的承載的功能越來越多了當然疫情之後乘客的回流第二個當然行政院我們T-PASS很多的民眾通勤他也選擇了集結所以目前的整個這個承載的人次是快速的成長第三個當然機場國門他原本的功能那現在我們預計\n主席\n因應未來的人潮需要9列的直達6列的普通。目前溝通了好幾次,行政院級我們也介入了,說大概中央目前的評估,雖然還沒有定案,還沒有確定,大概是給三分之二,直達6列。\n普通、試煉那經費原本的大約90億現在變成60億那目前為止我相信院長你也知道我們副院長也一直在協調這件事情那這60億要怎麼補助啊這個院長這邊可不可以多幫忙一點\n我想這個補助的情況還是會跟地方政府再來協調那這件事情我跟您報告一下實際上我們副院長跟我們桃園市政府有很密集在溝通至於這個金額是多少當然他們還會在商量的過程可是我們會盡可能的來協助這個集結購車這個我們確實是有這樣的\n希望他們也能夠提出計畫。政策只是盡可能因為我覺得未來是不是總共要15例那我覺得至少第一階段大家達成共識先上因為這個車從訂購到真正製造在進場都好幾年之後了搞不好我們已經轉機客都已經進來了所以我們當然希望第一階段能夠快一點所以剛剛院長特別說我們盡力幫忙當然我們也知道嘛有些道理我們在評估的時候那一天\n指打車﹚\n我們這個行政院跟交通部認為跟中央政策相關地方是承載了中央的一個國門的責任因為主要國境進出它的一個重要的交通工具它就進進出出搞不好也不到我們城市裡面來這個部分中央補助84%就得補助大部分因為我覺得這合理啦真的合理因為有些人拿行李就去上飛機了也不到桃園也不到新北齁那\n所以部長我要問一下最主要84%的來源他是承載了國進出入所以才這樣考量的是不是?你們在內部的討論是這樣嗎?對 這個政務院長有開過會就是直達車比較像是國家的門面在進出\n普通車比較地方,像台北捷運地方性的,所以他現在就是用直達車84%,那剛才談到60億,算起來就大概30億了。這個普通車,因為你們普通車變零趴,零趴的原因是你們的成績啦,現在三個城市嘛,桃園、新北、台北,你們自己每一站來來去去,人民走動的過程,我理解啦。\n其實這個推斷的邏輯我是真的是可以接受如果普通車真的是這樣的話但是我是覺得這個思考有一點北向思考就是說我有台北的觀點因為我直達車目前主要是跑台北新北停兩站就直接殺進機場\n主要當然現在一天幾十班裡面有給大概8到9個列車也讓他跑到中壢金浦站是有但是絕大部分都在臺北出發那首都我沒有意見我沒有意見首都是這樣的那可是南向思考\n我們要往南邊走的人呢?這些旅客呢?或者國人或者旅客要從機場南端要進國門有沒有用機捷這件事啦?所以我現在在討論這個事情因為A23站是中壢火車站\n難得一條季節連串接了臺北火車站是頭尾巴到了中壢火車站這兩個很特別可是我跟你講臺北火車站有直搭車中壢沒有直搭車對不對就算我們現在在幾年蓋好之後中壢沒有直搭車因為訊號的關係我們在前面兩站就用手動切就切了車沒有辦法直接衝進來所以他只能\n普通車所以在南向的思考當中立火車站在你們預估嗎可能在兩年三年正式通車了這些從南向做火車\n台鐵來的不管是國人或者外國的旅客他不是從台北市進站他從中壢火車站進站但他唯一搭的就是可能就只有普通車所以我要特別拜託那到高鐵\n﹗\n但如果證明是有我這邊拜託院長部長因為還要繼續討論他確實有承載承載的實際的數據呢那不是說故事中立站還沒通喔中立站一通我相信火車串接的人會更多現況\n就是我南端從清普到中壢A22還沒到火山前一站在整個中壢市區跟清普地區這一個月我抓一個月2月21號到3月21號到昨天為止這幾個站進站人數51萬8\n進站就從那邊跑進來,進站要去什麼目的地呢?都有,去台北也有。但是他們的目的地是在A12、13跟14A機場的那個旅館的,總共是19萬7千多人。也就是說具體的數字,很多人搭乘普通車,因為他沒有直搭車,有38%的人就是直接去機場。\n所以我要拜託這個數據我想私下我再給交通部我再給行政院你們參考一下我在講的是普通車也承載了南向我們的國人旅客直接要去機場的這樣的一個國家的責任所以我覺得應該要給予補助這個部分如果數字是這樣院長你是不是能夠至少不能是0%吧\n我想這個謝謝委員跟捷運公司調出這個資料因為我們以往沒有這樣的一個數據那這個數據當然也就請這個桃園市政府來提供在會議上讓這個政府院長也能夠納入考慮那確實你如果說是這樣的話那就要看說哪一些我不曉得他這個數據\n做的是從哪裏進站的?親埔地區A17是親埔有三站親埔地區有中壢和親埔跟高鐵一直到中壢市區從親埔去的話對親埔到中壢市區上車要往北向坐到站點下車有這麼多這樣的好不好?\n我只提供一個意見你們可以掉一整年的好不好但是拜託普通車不要零趴他也承載了國家責任這是我今天\n接下來要請教一個重大的問題\n因為是我在上屆立委這個一上任的時候主要關心的問題一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的一個問題這是三年前110年3月整整三年前提出總諮詢去跟交通部那當時我記得應該已經是王部長那我就只想問一件事因為當時的這個部分是走到這個工程\n公程動工預計是111年4月,現在的時間點是113年的3月。我想請教一下,因為院長可能軌道工程他管太多,我想請教部長。民眾人在問我,完工日期\n還是這三站桃園內地中壢118年4月其他的是119年7月他這個部分還是這樣嗎因為你2月29號我跟邱樂華兩位交通委員跟你們開會你提供我的資料還是這個日期還是嗎確定嗎要不要校正一下應該各加三年\n各加三年。原因第一個是桃園站的文資。第二個因為現在憑證的延伸要放到這一期裡面。所以應該各加三年。再加三年?各加三年,對。你老實啊,那我可以下課了。\n但是拜託不要再給我這個報告你說今天再加三年跟我講真心話可是三個禮拜你就沒跟我講真心話好啦那今天的情況那你也知道就現在施工進度只有憑證開工啦就總工程主體工程他的全工程進度0.18而已啦距離還很遠啦這我沒有要怪誰啦就是事實的資料讓民眾期待\n臨時訪問委員\n的站當然大家知道會延期嘛可是我們講先不要講憑證好不好先不要講憑證發生的事大家看前面三個是當時承諾108年世衛會完工的\n桃園內立中立三站說我們118年會完工的現在發生什麼事呢當然我也謝謝鐵道局努力啦終於發包出去了啦所以我倒不是在有發包出去不錯了但是現在發包出去我們一看工期嘛以桃園站預計7月開工你們跟他合約簽訂的日曆天的工期嘛公共工程委員委員會也在這裡嘛\n兩千四百六十四天啊將近六年多的時間啊我就簡單就是沒有任何的理由再來常常不可規則的一天都不延也要到一百二十年對不對那終於也是啊到一百二十年五月所以你的意思說一百一十八年本來的你加三年所以我就沒有意見了就比如說\n一定會有還要工程一定還會演一點有桃園戰現在有三大不確定會造成比較大延期的因素第一個就是您剛剛很了解的憑證難言\n1.2公里那個比較嚴重耶因為現在修改計畫之後還要重新環境評估、環差分析再來走一遍其實我聽了有一點頭痛那第二個是桃園站的文資問題文資的問題但是我覺得要積極啦要積極那當然第三個其實就是經費的問題\n我要拜託現在這是另外一個角度來反戰現在這個問題啊。現在台灣鐵路地下化現在發生什麼事啊?其實我們最近都在問欸內地戰還有三個戰還沒超標出去嘛。內地戰我們台灣醫院戰跟那個新北的鳳鳴戰我一直在問說欸四個戰已經終於今年標出去了另外三個怎麼不標不標不標?結果私下了解沒錢了。\n沒錢的原因呢?我們只有一千零四十八億吧?報告院長部長你們看一下下面幾個數據就是我們系社PCM大約框了二十一用地費框六十六億然後臨時站臨時工程主體工程還有一些監照總共加起來\n平政要重新提一個修正計劃。\n他現在要把內力站、桃園站、鳳鳴站整個包進去啊包進去啊去走一個奇幻旅遊啊奇幻旅遊就一直等等等等其他三個本來沒問題的嘛本來沒問題只是差錢但你把它包進去他就要等環差分析他要等重新國發會整個繞一圈因為我很多工程繞幾圈我都清楚我很害怕可是第一個\n原來的1046億現在幾乎很明確會變成1500億以上,那這個部分經費會不會有問題?這個部長覺得?包括南沿還有包括整個物價上漲的部分,我們初估會增加700億。\n施政計畫現在已經完成了,準備來報施政計畫。\n所以增加700億,好,因為我這邊算就至少是500億啦,所以你說真的700億,我是覺得就一次把大概的可能情況講清楚,這種東西不要微調,也許民眾覺得哇怎麼那麼多,但是事實上大家在這個領域提出具體的核算的數字,因為我問鐵道局局長啊,他死不講耶,他沒有吃那個老實素的藥,所以他死不講,他說可能一毛沒增加,哇靠。\n但是今天把這個事情講清楚所以現在要非常積極我要拜託院長要不管未來因為要扯到國發會又要再繞一圈又要我們行政院我想現在可以去做的可以去評估的我要拜託要簡化鳳鳴站、陶藝站、內地的整個過程不要讓他們再受折磨一次大家排隊能不能讓他們先排出來這三案先走然後憑證延伸案\n因為他還要環差分析嘛。他的速度會慢一點。這個部分是不是請你們考量能夠分工分別來做一個處理可以嗎?\n你意思是說分斷通車的意思是嗎?分斷嗎?不是啦,我說工程啦。喔工程喔,我們現在就花包,現在該走就走。我知道啦,你現在內力,你整個繞完之後,環差分析我跟你講一年啦。\n一年之後你才讓他發包。我跟你講喔,其他的工程是含有暫提的喔,含有暫提的。它的複雜性不像平正延伸工程,它只是地下讓軌道拉長,它相對的工程、工法、工期會減少很多。所以你不能讓他們弄在一起。到最後,\n拜託這三個公職都要很久,一定要讓他們先一個單獨一個案子先跑,讓他們先發報,憑證要經過這個\n楊局長是不是這樣?你好像臉色不太同意喔?\n拜託這三個只欠東風的錢的案子讓他們先跑啦趕快找到錢先發包另外一個還有很多行政程序要經過發會的那我們在另外的行政來推動好不好我就做這樣的一個拜託也希望院長能夠再多幫忙謝謝非常謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.790 --> 00:13.076\n呃謝謝呃韓院長有請我們行政院陳院長請陳院長備詢呃陳院長我看到那個我們王部長可以一起上來齁首先呢請交通部\n\n00:26.469 --> 00:50.700\n從去年疫情趨緩之後這個旅遊完全開放不光是國內的旅遊到國外的旅遊但我們發覺從今年開始蠻明顯的原本我們在國旅的很多的觀光業界各個產業鏈的期待憑良心講比現在會覺得說你看到這上面嗎\n\n00:51.920 --> 01:11.937\n我們青年假還沒到那目前的一個初步的一個報導我希望能夠更好大概定房率到4成5我們希望能夠再高在春節旅遊的時候那已經過了嘛大概定房率大概到6成那其他點點滴滴就不講了有些相關產業觀光的一些店家他們也不斷的一個反應\n\n01:13.078 --> 01:13.518\n我請部長來回答。\n\n01:42.627 --> 02:01.464\n事實上現在國旅在那個假日還是很熱我跟這個委員報告那當然就是說冬天比較差是在離島的部分那前陣子我們跟離島幾個委員討論怎麼樣來做一些促銷比如說這個硬去買買一送一等等的這個促銷也在做\n\n02:02.646 --> 02:23.464\n當然就是說因為國境開放以後有一些人會往國外來跑所以我們跟這個所有的觀光業在談就是說你的吸引力一定要這個能夠吸引大家願意留在國內那這部分包括我們觀光署的相關的建設計畫包括這些國境面歷緊急的計畫、風管處的相關的計畫也都在進行\n\n02:28.468 --> 02:44.375\n你剛剛講這個我也非常認同因為疫情的時間我們編了很多的預算也投入了我們當時的觀光局、交通部很多的預算有些是直接希望促銷國旅的有很多是硬體的一個改善\n\n02:44.915 --> 03:08.881\n那時候觀光局局長也再三不是光答應我跟委員說我們正好像各國一樣能夠藉這個時間把所有的基礎設施景點相關設施把它弄好可是我們看到最近在出國那個熱潮有沒有看到幾則報導我心裡是覺得雖然有點不服氣可是人家講的又好像是真的他說日本經過這個兩年多的疫情\n\n03:11.081 --> 03:40.174\n他說已經進化升級,國旅還在原地踏步。我想講的是非常廣泛,有私部門有公部門的。你對於這句話這個報道,就是國際的很多的一個吸引觀光客在他疫情的階段他的基礎建設甚至觀光想方設法讓他提升。就是希望以後之後他能夠在世界的市場\n\n03:41.194 --> 04:00.172\n蔣德投籌,你覺得臺灣這個有沒有落後?院長要不要講一下?我想這個要促進這個國旅,實際上中央政府的推動當然是很重要,我們觀光署很重要,但是地方政府也很重要。剛才賴瑞榮委員就提到,在像高雄,\n\n04:02.114 --> 04:17.411\n國旅來講的話那高雄每次音樂會的時候不得了很多很多所以我們也希望說中央跟地方一起配合來發展這一個地方的觀光特色那像高雄這樣的辦了很多的這個重要的音樂會的時候\n\n04:19.393 --> 04:43.725\n國旅的部分就會增加,那這個確實是需要中央跟地方一起來努力。好,院長,但是我們希望說整體啦,各個城市各有特色,各有想法,各有努力,真的很棒。那我們想整個我們居然觀光局生屬了,大家都對它有期待,我相信院長也是。那現在我請教一下,這個是今年我們希望\n\n04:46.540 --> 05:02.118\n國人希望能夠旅遊,但如果國人旅遊目前還沒有辦法達到這樣的熱潮,我們希望國外來臺的旅客,不管是商務也好、純觀光的人都希望多一點。那這個部長特別有說過,今年的目標是1200萬人。\n\n05:04.875 --> 05:19.344\n那你那時候也說那時候當然因為之前嘛希望那個陸客呢也能夠來台啦如果沒有辦法沒有辦法開放陸客的話也會持續想辦法努力啊那現在看起來齁看起來這個\n\n05:21.442 --> 05:26.264\n的確當時觀光署1200萬裡面大概有200到250萬是入客當然就是說我們去年大概是這個狀況600萬有100萬的入客結果我們最後是648萬\n\n05:50.991 --> 06:17.052\n當然我們目標是這樣那當然就是說入客能早一點開放來那當然這個目標早一點達到那如果沒有的話我們繼續來努力目前還是這個目標還沒有修正大概以這個就是扣掉入客的部分大概是1000萬不過你現在1月到2月幫你統計了118萬平均大概50接近60萬如果這樣12個月的話我再預估可能700到800萬\n\n06:18.433 --> 06:46.855\n所以我覺得這是設定目標我們在這裡不是吐槽要努力要努力嘛如果現在是七八百萬到底該怎麼樣去補足那我那一天聽到了這個院長應該你也知道吧我們一年大概有五百到六百萬轉機的旅客那他的免簽證的觀光時間怎麼訂定這個我們近期內也會來做個敲定讓轉機成為觀光客的一個來源\n\n06:48.562 --> 07:16.300\n說真的那天聽到我們副院長的他這一席宣布其實我個人是比較我很贊成我也很興奮為什麼大家都知道轉機客旅遊因為時間有限如果真的可乘的話機場附近的城市機場附近的景點是優先獲利我相信桃園機場桃園當然我覺得這如果可以開放很重要往北可能到盧竹新北大家都會在第一線受惠\n\n07:16.860 --> 07:35.589\n那這個部分一個月過去了嘛2月22號那現在3月22號那院長那個因為這個他不是交通部的真的跨很多的一個單位的那這個部分院長你知道這個宣布嗎我我我記得當天是我我也在\n\n07:36.670 --> 07:43.134\n當時副院長是希望625萬但是在跨部會包括外交包括移民署討論的時候認為說有一些轉機進來如果免簽證會有一些問題所以這個問題現在還沒有處理好\n\n08:04.085 --> 08:23.700\n現在已經開始鋪鐘了嗎?沒有吧?沒有沒有沒有,現在還在還在研議中因為那個簽證的部分,免簽證有牽涉到很多課題尤其過去沒有這個不能都一定要簽證的國家你要不要在機場讓他直接免簽證寄來這個這個我在那個會議長我召開會再討論\n\n08:27.803 --> 08:46.202\n好,以112年來說我們轉聚率客到達625萬當然未來是怎麼樣不清楚但至少幾百萬人五六百萬可能是一個可預期的客戶的一個來源那當然有些人很快轉聚他不可能會出來嘛所以我拜託你們趕快去研究讓\n\n08:47.823 --> 09:13.343\n現在我們覺得4小時之內我覺得對於交通部也是要看一下像章宜機場他們在機場那個領域裡面那個小城市的觀光很熱門有些瀑布有些什麼綠袋很多兒童園區他有些收門票的在裡面就有產值不是存給你觀光的當然你說那免稅店大家都有我倒是覺得一、二行家看起來沒機會了\n\n09:14.404 --> 09:40.675\n三行下因為還有時間我是真的是建議就是說這轉機客要去吸引到不一定時間短的他進不了城市4小時之內的我覺得如果我們有一些像世界特色機場的他去那邊都必定要去看我倒是覺得這個部分我在這裡建議你在三行下能夠考量有降德的室內的包括在那個機場\n\n10:14.762 --> 10:14.782\n﹚廣告\n\n10:29.873 --> 10:49.466\n一步一步向前走,這個院長你要幫忙一下雖然看守內閣但是今天總質詢我要再拜託你一件事這個事情下一段該怎麼推動因為一定有很多困難交通部要去推這個事情不管是外交部、領事務局甚至移民署這個部分我要拜託\n\n10:50.959 --> 11:18.457\n委員長多費心好不好?這個部分我剛才已經講過這個已經請政府院長來召開相關各部會的這個會議那這個也正在演繹當中所以我相信這一個政府院長的這個會我們會繼續請他再來推動那剛才您講的這一些構想是不錯那現在就是我們有很多的需要解決的這一些\n\n11:19.127 --> 11:19.247\n好的\n\n11:27.603 --> 11:50.855\n這個未來這個機場捷運的承載的功能越來越多了當然疫情之後乘客的回流第二個當然行政院我們T-PASS很多的民眾通勤他也選擇了集結所以目前的整個這個承載的人次是快速的成長第三個當然機場國門他原本的功能那現在我們預計\n\n11:52.136 --> 11:52.376\n主席\n\n12:22.236 --> 12:43.646\n因應未來的人潮需要9列的直達6列的普通。目前溝通了好幾次,行政院級我們也介入了,說大概中央目前的評估,雖然還沒有定案,還沒有確定,大概是給三分之二,直達6列。\n\n12:45.011 --> 13:02.398\n普通、試煉那經費原本的大約90億現在變成60億那目前為止我相信院長你也知道我們副院長也一直在協調這件事情那這60億要怎麼補助啊這個院長這邊可不可以多幫忙一點\n\n13:04.780 --> 13:29.116\n我想這個補助的情況還是會跟地方政府再來協調那這件事情我跟您報告一下實際上我們副院長跟我們桃園市政府有很密集在溝通至於這個金額是多少當然他們還會在商量的過程可是我們會盡可能的來協助這個集結購車這個我們確實是有這樣的\n\n13:34.760 --> 14:03.382\n希望他們也能夠提出計畫。政策只是盡可能因為我覺得未來是不是總共要15例那我覺得至少第一階段大家達成共識先上因為這個車從訂購到真正製造在進場都好幾年之後了搞不好我們已經轉機客都已經進來了所以我們當然希望第一階段能夠快一點所以剛剛院長特別說我們盡力幫忙當然我們也知道嘛有些道理我們在評估的時候那一天\n\n14:04.182 --> 14:04.603\n指打車﹚\n\n14:15.984 --> 14:42.296\n我們這個行政院跟交通部認為跟中央政策相關地方是承載了中央的一個國門的責任因為主要國境進出它的一個重要的交通工具它就進進出出搞不好也不到我們城市裡面來這個部分中央補助84%就得補助大部分因為我覺得這合理啦真的合理因為有些人拿行李就去上飛機了也不到桃園也不到新北齁那\n\n14:44.161 --> 15:00.443\n所以部長我要問一下最主要84%的來源他是承載了國進出入所以才這樣考量的是不是?你們在內部的討論是這樣嗎?對這個政務院長有開過會就是直達車比較像是國家的門面在進出\n\n15:02.383 --> 15:25.931\n普通車比較地方,像台北捷運地方性的,所以他現在就是用直達車84%,那剛才談到60億,算起來就大概30億了。這個普通車,因為你們普通車變零趴,零趴的原因是你們的成績啦,現在三個城市嘛,桃園、新北、台北,你們自己每一站來來去去,人民走動的過程,我理解啦。\n\n15:26.531 --> 15:44.568\n其實這個推斷的邏輯我是真的是可以接受如果普通車真的是這樣的話但是我是覺得這個思考有一點北向思考就是說我有台北的觀點因為我直達車目前主要是跑台北新北停兩站就直接殺進機場\n\n15:46.509 --> 16:06.234\n主要當然現在一天幾十班裡面有給大概8到9個列車也讓他跑到中壢金浦站是有但是絕大部分都在臺北出發那首都我沒有意見我沒有意見首都是這樣的那可是南向思考\n\n16:07.054 --> 16:20.281\n我們要往南邊走的人呢?這些旅客呢?或者國人或者旅客要從機場南端要進國門有沒有用機捷這件事啦?所以我現在在討論這個事情因為A23站是中壢火車站\n\n16:28.005 --> 16:55.312\n難得一條季節連串接了臺北火車站是頭尾巴到了中壢火車站這兩個很特別可是我跟你講臺北火車站有直搭車中壢沒有直搭車對不對就算我們現在在幾年蓋好之後中壢沒有直搭車因為訊號的關係我們在前面兩站就用手動切就切了車沒有辦法直接衝進來所以他只能\n\n16:56.532 --> 17:08.419\n普通車所以在南向的思考當中立火車站在你們預估嗎可能在兩年三年正式通車了這些從南向做火車\n\n17:10.094 --> 17:27.071\n台鐵來的不管是國人或者外國的旅客他不是從台北市進站他從中壢火車站進站但他唯一搭的就是可能就只有普通車所以我要特別拜託那到高鐵\n\n17:47.683 --> 18:02.217\n但如果證明是有我這邊拜託院長部長因為還要繼續討論他確實有承載承載的實際的數據呢那不是說故事中立站還沒通喔中立站一通我相信火車串接的人會更多現況\n\n18:04.557 --> 18:16.184\n就是我南端從清普到中壢A22還沒到火山前一站在整個中壢市區跟清普地區這一個月我抓一個月2月21號到3月21號到昨天為止這幾個站進站人數51萬8\n\n18:23.727 --> 18:49.009\n進站就從那邊跑進來,進站要去什麼目的地呢?都有,去台北也有。但是他們的目的地是在A12、13跟14A機場的那個旅館的,總共是19萬7千多人。也就是說具體的數字,很多人搭乘普通車,因為他沒有直搭車,有38%的人就是直接去機場。\n\n18:50.891 --> 19:13.933\n所以我要拜託這個數據我想私下我再給交通部我再給行政院你們參考一下我在講的是普通車也承載了南向我們的國人旅客直接要去機場的這樣的一個國家的責任所以我覺得應該要給予補助這個部分如果數字是這樣院長你是不是能夠至少不能是0%吧\n\n19:15.574 --> 19:40.049\n我想這個謝謝委員跟捷運公司調出這個資料因為我們以往沒有這樣的一個數據那這個數據當然也就請這個桃園市政府來提供在會議上讓這個政府院長也能夠納入考慮那確實你如果說是這樣的話那就要看說哪一些我不曉得他這個數據\n\n19:42.350 --> 20:02.748\n做的是從哪裏進站的?親埔地區A17是親埔有三站親埔地區有中壢和親埔跟高鐵一直到中壢市區從親埔去的話對親埔到中壢市區上車要往北向坐到站點下車有這麼多這樣的好不好?\n\n20:03.328 --> 20:07.813\n我只提供一個意見你們可以掉一整年的好不好但是拜託普通車不要零趴他也承載了國家責任這是我今天\n\n20:22.529 --> 20:23.410\n接下來要請教一個重大的問題\n\n20:48.035 --> 21:11.584\n因為是我在上屆立委這個一上任的時候主要關心的問題一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的一個問題這是三年前110年3月整整三年前提出總諮詢去跟交通部那當時我記得應該已經是王部長那我就只想問一件事因為當時的這個部分是走到這個工程\n\n21:16.223 --> 21:33.552\n公程動工預計是111年4月,現在的時間點是113年的3月。我想請教一下,因為院長可能軌道工程他管太多,我想請教部長。民眾人在問我,完工日期\n\n21:35.322 --> 21:56.833\n還是這三站桃園內地中壢118年4月其他的是119年7月他這個部分還是這樣嗎因為你2月29號我跟邱樂華兩位交通委員跟你們開會你提供我的資料還是這個日期還是嗎確定嗎要不要校正一下應該各加三年\n\n21:58.018 --> 22:10.136\n各加三年。原因第一個是桃園站的文資。第二個因為現在憑證的延伸要放到這一期裡面。所以應該各加三年。再加三年?各加三年,對。你老實啊,那我可以下課了。\n\n22:13.449 --> 22:39.930\n但是拜託不要再給我這個報告你說今天再加三年跟我講真心話可是三個禮拜你就沒跟我講真心話好啦那今天的情況那你也知道就現在施工進度只有憑證開工啦就總工程主體工程他的全工程進度0.18而已啦距離還很遠啦這我沒有要怪誰啦就是事實的資料讓民眾期待\n\n22:40.490 --> 22:40.510\n臨時訪問委員\n\n22:58.371 --> 23:09.137\n的站當然大家知道會延期嘛可是我們講先不要講憑證好不好先不要講憑證發生的事大家看前面三個是當時承諾108年世衛會完工的\n\n23:12.073 --> 23:35.159\n桃園內立中立三站說我們118年會完工的現在發生什麼事呢當然我也謝謝鐵道局努力啦終於發包出去了啦所以我倒不是在有發包出去不錯了但是現在發包出去我們一看工期嘛以桃園站預計7月開工你們跟他合約簽訂的日曆天的工期嘛公共工程委員委員會也在這裡嘛\n\n23:36.179 --> 23:59.049\n兩千四百六十四天啊將近六年多的時間啊我就簡單就是沒有任何的理由再來常常不可規則的一天都不延也要到一百二十年對不對那終於也是啊到一百二十年五月所以你的意思說一百一十八年本來的你加三年所以我就沒有意見了就比如說\n\n24:00.430 --> 24:12.106\n一定會有還要工程一定還會演一點有桃園戰現在有三大不確定會造成比較大延期的因素第一個就是您剛剛很了解的憑證難言\n\n24:15.387 --> 24:39.681\n1.2公里那個比較嚴重耶因為現在修改計畫之後還要重新環境評估、環差分析再來走一遍其實我聽了有一點頭痛那第二個是桃園站的文資問題文資的問題但是我覺得要積極啦要積極那當然第三個其實就是經費的問題\n\n24:42.489 --> 25:08.249\n我要拜託現在這是另外一個角度來反戰現在這個問題啊。現在台灣鐵路地下化現在發生什麼事啊?其實我們最近都在問欸內地戰還有三個戰還沒超標出去嘛。內地戰我們台灣醫院戰跟那個新北的鳳鳴戰我一直在問說欸四個戰已經終於今年標出去了另外三個怎麼不標不標不標?結果私下了解沒錢了。\n\n25:09.039 --> 25:30.901\n沒錢的原因呢?我們只有一千零四十八億吧?報告院長部長你們看一下下面幾個數據就是我們系社PCM大約框了二十一用地費框六十六億然後臨時站臨時工程主體工程還有一些監照總共加起來\n\n25:31.442 --> 25:32.583\n平政要重新提一個修正計劃。\n\n25:53.660 --> 26:20.598\n他現在要把內力站、桃園站、鳳鳴站整個包進去啊包進去啊去走一個奇幻旅遊啊奇幻旅遊就一直等等等等其他三個本來沒問題的嘛本來沒問題只是差錢但你把它包進去他就要等環差分析他要等重新國發會整個繞一圈因為我很多工程繞幾圈我都清楚我很害怕可是第一個\n\n26:21.926 --> 26:42.271\n原來的1046億現在幾乎很明確會變成1500億以上,那這個部分經費會不會有問題?這個部長覺得?包括南沿還有包括整個物價上漲的部分,我們初估會增加700億。\n\n26:43.831 --> 26:44.732\n施政計畫現在已經完成了,準備來報施政計畫。\n\n26:58.806 --> 27:27.151\n所以增加700億,好,因為我這邊算就至少是500億啦,所以你說真的700億,我是覺得就一次把大概的可能情況講清楚,這種東西不要微調,也許民眾覺得哇怎麼那麼多,但是事實上大家在這個領域提出具體的核算的數字,因為我問鐵道局局長啊,他死不講耶,他沒有吃那個老實素的藥,所以他死不講,他說可能一毛沒增加,哇靠。\n\n27:28.512 --> 27:57.131\n但是今天把這個事情講清楚所以現在要非常積極我要拜託院長要不管未來因為要扯到國發會又要再繞一圈又要我們行政院我想現在可以去做的可以去評估的我要拜託要簡化鳳鳴站、陶藝站、內地的整個過程不要讓他們再受折磨一次大家排隊能不能讓他們先排出來這三案先走然後憑證延伸案\n\n27:58.151 --> 28:07.097\n因為他還要環差分析嘛。他的速度會慢一點。這個部分是不是請你們考量能夠分工分別來做一個處理可以嗎?\n\n28:07.987 --> 28:19.997\n你意思是說分斷通車的意思是嗎?分斷嗎?不是啦,我說工程啦。喔工程喔,我們現在就花包,現在該走就走。我知道啦,你現在內力,你整個繞完之後,環差分析我跟你講一年啦。\n\n28:28.052 --> 28:48.351\n一年之後你才讓他發包。我跟你講喔,其他的工程是含有暫提的喔,含有暫提的。它的複雜性不像平正延伸工程,它只是地下讓軌道拉長,它相對的工程、工法、工期會減少很多。所以你不能讓他們弄在一起。到最後,\n\n28:49.111 --> 28:53.354\n拜託這三個公職都要很久,一定要讓他們先一個單獨一個案子先跑,讓他們先發報,憑證要經過這個\n\n29:11.143 --> 29:12.824\n楊局長是不是這樣?你好像臉色不太同意喔?\n\n29:27.984 --> 29:50.176\n拜託這三個只欠東風的錢的案子讓他們先跑啦趕快找到錢先發包另外一個還有很多行政程序要經過發會的那我們在另外的行政來推動好不好我就做這樣的一個拜託也希望院長能夠再多幫忙謝謝非常謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.79,"end":13.076,"text":"呃謝謝呃韓院長有請我們行政院陳院長請陳院長備詢呃陳院長我看到那個我們王部長可以一起上來齁首先呢請交通部"},{"start":26.469,"end":50.7,"text":"從去年疫情趨緩之後這個旅遊完全開放不光是國內的旅遊到國外的旅遊但我們發覺從今年開始蠻明顯的原本我們在國旅的很多的觀光業界各個產業鏈的期待憑良心講比現在會覺得說你看到這上面嗎"},{"start":51.92,"end":71.937,"text":"我們青年假還沒到那目前的一個初步的一個報導我希望能夠更好大概定房率到4成5我們希望能夠再高在春節旅遊的時候那已經過了嘛大概定房率大概到6成那其他點點滴滴就不講了有些相關產業觀光的一些店家他們也不斷的一個反應"},{"start":73.078,"end":73.518,"text":"我請部長來回答。"},{"start":102.627,"end":121.464,"text":"事實上現在國旅在那個假日還是很熱我跟這個委員報告那當然就是說冬天比較差是在離島的部分那前陣子我們跟離島幾個委員討論怎麼樣來做一些促銷比如說這個硬去買買一送一等等的這個促銷也在做"},{"start":122.646,"end":143.464,"text":"當然就是說因為國境開放以後有一些人會往國外來跑所以我們跟這個所有的觀光業在談就是說你的吸引力一定要這個能夠吸引大家願意留在國內那這部分包括我們觀光署的相關的建設計畫包括這些國境面歷緊急的計畫、風管處的相關的計畫也都在進行"},{"start":148.468,"end":164.375,"text":"你剛剛講這個我也非常認同因為疫情的時間我們編了很多的預算也投入了我們當時的觀光局、交通部很多的預算有些是直接希望促銷國旅的有很多是硬體的一個改善"},{"start":164.915,"end":188.881,"text":"那時候觀光局局長也再三不是光答應我跟委員說我們正好像各國一樣能夠藉這個時間把所有的基礎設施景點相關設施把它弄好可是我們看到最近在出國那個熱潮有沒有看到幾則報導我心裡是覺得雖然有點不服氣可是人家講的又好像是真的他說日本經過這個兩年多的疫情"},{"start":191.081,"end":220.174,"text":"他說已經進化升級,國旅還在原地踏步。我想講的是非常廣泛,有私部門有公部門的。你對於這句話這個報道,就是國際的很多的一個吸引觀光客在他疫情的階段他的基礎建設甚至觀光想方設法讓他提升。就是希望以後之後他能夠在世界的市場"},{"start":221.194,"end":240.172,"text":"蔣德投籌,你覺得臺灣這個有沒有落後?院長要不要講一下?我想這個要促進這個國旅,實際上中央政府的推動當然是很重要,我們觀光署很重要,但是地方政府也很重要。剛才賴瑞榮委員就提到,在像高雄,"},{"start":242.114,"end":257.411,"text":"國旅來講的話那高雄每次音樂會的時候不得了很多很多所以我們也希望說中央跟地方一起配合來發展這一個地方的觀光特色那像高雄這樣的辦了很多的這個重要的音樂會的時候"},{"start":259.393,"end":283.725,"text":"國旅的部分就會增加,那這個確實是需要中央跟地方一起來努力。好,院長,但是我們希望說整體啦,各個城市各有特色,各有想法,各有努力,真的很棒。那我們想整個我們居然觀光局生屬了,大家都對它有期待,我相信院長也是。那現在我請教一下,這個是今年我們希望"},{"start":286.54,"end":302.118,"text":"國人希望能夠旅遊,但如果國人旅遊目前還沒有辦法達到這樣的熱潮,我們希望國外來臺的旅客,不管是商務也好、純觀光的人都希望多一點。那這個部長特別有說過,今年的目標是1200萬人。"},{"start":304.875,"end":319.344,"text":"那你那時候也說那時候當然因為之前嘛希望那個陸客呢也能夠來台啦如果沒有辦法沒有辦法開放陸客的話也會持續想辦法努力啊那現在看起來齁看起來這個"},{"start":321.442,"end":326.264,"text":"的確當時觀光署1200萬裡面大概有200到250萬是入客當然就是說我們去年大概是這個狀況600萬有100萬的入客結果我們最後是648萬"},{"start":350.991,"end":377.052,"text":"當然我們目標是這樣那當然就是說入客能早一點開放來那當然這個目標早一點達到那如果沒有的話我們繼續來努力目前還是這個目標還沒有修正大概以這個就是扣掉入客的部分大概是1000萬不過你現在1月到2月幫你統計了118萬平均大概50接近60萬如果這樣12個月的話我再預估可能700到800萬"},{"start":378.433,"end":406.855,"text":"所以我覺得這是設定目標我們在這裡不是吐槽要努力要努力嘛如果現在是七八百萬到底該怎麼樣去補足那我那一天聽到了這個院長應該你也知道吧我們一年大概有五百到六百萬轉機的旅客那他的免簽證的觀光時間怎麼訂定這個我們近期內也會來做個敲定讓轉機成為觀光客的一個來源"},{"start":408.562,"end":436.3,"text":"說真的那天聽到我們副院長的他這一席宣布其實我個人是比較我很贊成我也很興奮為什麼大家都知道轉機客旅遊因為時間有限如果真的可乘的話機場附近的城市機場附近的景點是優先獲利我相信桃園機場桃園當然我覺得這如果可以開放很重要往北可能到盧竹新北大家都會在第一線受惠"},{"start":436.86,"end":455.589,"text":"那這個部分一個月過去了嘛2月22號那現在3月22號那院長那個因為這個他不是交通部的真的跨很多的一個單位的那這個部分院長你知道這個宣布嗎我我我記得當天是我我也在"},{"start":456.67,"end":463.134,"text":"當時副院長是希望625萬但是在跨部會包括外交包括移民署討論的時候認為說有一些轉機進來如果免簽證會有一些問題所以這個問題現在還沒有處理好"},{"start":484.085,"end":503.7,"text":"現在已經開始鋪鐘了嗎?沒有吧?沒有沒有沒有,現在還在還在研議中因為那個簽證的部分,免簽證有牽涉到很多課題尤其過去沒有這個不能都一定要簽證的國家你要不要在機場讓他直接免簽證寄來這個這個我在那個會議長我召開會再討論"},{"start":507.803,"end":526.202,"text":"好,以112年來說我們轉聚率客到達625萬當然未來是怎麼樣不清楚但至少幾百萬人五六百萬可能是一個可預期的客戶的一個來源那當然有些人很快轉聚他不可能會出來嘛所以我拜託你們趕快去研究讓"},{"start":527.823,"end":553.343,"text":"現在我們覺得4小時之內我覺得對於交通部也是要看一下像章宜機場他們在機場那個領域裡面那個小城市的觀光很熱門有些瀑布有些什麼綠袋很多兒童園區他有些收門票的在裡面就有產值不是存給你觀光的當然你說那免稅店大家都有我倒是覺得一、二行家看起來沒機會了"},{"start":554.404,"end":580.675,"text":"三行下因為還有時間我是真的是建議就是說這轉機客要去吸引到不一定時間短的他進不了城市4小時之內的我覺得如果我們有一些像世界特色機場的他去那邊都必定要去看我倒是覺得這個部分我在這裡建議你在三行下能夠考量有降德的室內的包括在那個機場"},{"start":582.176,"end":598.49,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":598.49,"end":614.462,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":614.762,"end":614.782,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":629.873,"end":649.466,"text":"一步一步向前走,這個院長你要幫忙一下雖然看守內閣但是今天總質詢我要再拜託你一件事這個事情下一段該怎麼推動因為一定有很多困難交通部要去推這個事情不管是外交部、領事務局甚至移民署這個部分我要拜託"},{"start":650.959,"end":678.457,"text":"委員長多費心好不好?這個部分我剛才已經講過這個已經請政府院長來召開相關各部會的這個會議那這個也正在演繹當中所以我相信這一個政府院長的這個會我們會繼續請他再來推動那剛才您講的這一些構想是不錯那現在就是我們有很多的需要解決的這一些"},{"start":679.127,"end":679.247,"text":"好的"},{"start":687.603,"end":710.855,"text":"這個未來這個機場捷運的承載的功能越來越多了當然疫情之後乘客的回流第二個當然行政院我們T-PASS很多的民眾通勤他也選擇了集結所以目前的整個這個承載的人次是快速的成長第三個當然機場國門他原本的功能那現在我們預計"},{"start":712.136,"end":712.376,"text":"主席"},{"start":742.236,"end":763.646,"text":"因應未來的人潮需要9列的直達6列的普通。目前溝通了好幾次,行政院級我們也介入了,說大概中央目前的評估,雖然還沒有定案,還沒有確定,大概是給三分之二,直達6列。"},{"start":765.011,"end":782.398,"text":"普通、試煉那經費原本的大約90億現在變成60億那目前為止我相信院長你也知道我們副院長也一直在協調這件事情那這60億要怎麼補助啊這個院長這邊可不可以多幫忙一點"},{"start":784.78,"end":809.116,"text":"我想這個補助的情況還是會跟地方政府再來協調那這件事情我跟您報告一下實際上我們副院長跟我們桃園市政府有很密集在溝通至於這個金額是多少當然他們還會在商量的過程可是我們會盡可能的來協助這個集結購車這個我們確實是有這樣的"},{"start":814.76,"end":843.382,"text":"希望他們也能夠提出計畫。政策只是盡可能因為我覺得未來是不是總共要15例那我覺得至少第一階段大家達成共識先上因為這個車從訂購到真正製造在進場都好幾年之後了搞不好我們已經轉機客都已經進來了所以我們當然希望第一階段能夠快一點所以剛剛院長特別說我們盡力幫忙當然我們也知道嘛有些道理我們在評估的時候那一天"},{"start":844.182,"end":844.603,"text":"指打車﹚"},{"start":855.984,"end":882.296,"text":"我們這個行政院跟交通部認為跟中央政策相關地方是承載了中央的一個國門的責任因為主要國境進出它的一個重要的交通工具它就進進出出搞不好也不到我們城市裡面來這個部分中央補助84%就得補助大部分因為我覺得這合理啦真的合理因為有些人拿行李就去上飛機了也不到桃園也不到新北齁那"},{"start":884.161,"end":900.443,"text":"所以部長我要問一下最主要84%的來源他是承載了國進出入所以才這樣考量的是不是?你們在內部的討論是這樣嗎?對 這個政務院長有開過會就是直達車比較像是國家的門面在進出"},{"start":902.383,"end":925.931,"text":"普通車比較地方,像台北捷運地方性的,所以他現在就是用直達車84%,那剛才談到60億,算起來就大概30億了。這個普通車,因為你們普通車變零趴,零趴的原因是你們的成績啦,現在三個城市嘛,桃園、新北、台北,你們自己每一站來來去去,人民走動的過程,我理解啦。"},{"start":926.531,"end":944.568,"text":"其實這個推斷的邏輯我是真的是可以接受如果普通車真的是這樣的話但是我是覺得這個思考有一點北向思考就是說我有台北的觀點因為我直達車目前主要是跑台北新北停兩站就直接殺進機場"},{"start":946.509,"end":966.234,"text":"主要當然現在一天幾十班裡面有給大概8到9個列車也讓他跑到中壢金浦站是有但是絕大部分都在臺北出發那首都我沒有意見我沒有意見首都是這樣的那可是南向思考"},{"start":967.054,"end":980.281,"text":"我們要往南邊走的人呢?這些旅客呢?或者國人或者旅客要從機場南端要進國門有沒有用機捷這件事啦?所以我現在在討論這個事情因為A23站是中壢火車站"},{"start":988.005,"end":1015.312,"text":"難得一條季節連串接了臺北火車站是頭尾巴到了中壢火車站這兩個很特別可是我跟你講臺北火車站有直搭車中壢沒有直搭車對不對就算我們現在在幾年蓋好之後中壢沒有直搭車因為訊號的關係我們在前面兩站就用手動切就切了車沒有辦法直接衝進來所以他只能"},{"start":1016.532,"end":1028.419,"text":"普通車所以在南向的思考當中立火車站在你們預估嗎可能在兩年三年正式通車了這些從南向做火車"},{"start":1030.094,"end":1047.071,"text":"台鐵來的不管是國人或者外國的旅客他不是從台北市進站他從中壢火車站進站但他唯一搭的就是可能就只有普通車所以我要特別拜託那到高鐵"},{"start":1047.892,"end":1067.483,"text":"﹗"},{"start":1067.683,"end":1082.217,"text":"但如果證明是有我這邊拜託院長部長因為還要繼續討論他確實有承載承載的實際的數據呢那不是說故事中立站還沒通喔中立站一通我相信火車串接的人會更多現況"},{"start":1084.557,"end":1096.184,"text":"就是我南端從清普到中壢A22還沒到火山前一站在整個中壢市區跟清普地區這一個月我抓一個月2月21號到3月21號到昨天為止這幾個站進站人數51萬8"},{"start":1103.727,"end":1129.009,"text":"進站就從那邊跑進來,進站要去什麼目的地呢?都有,去台北也有。但是他們的目的地是在A12、13跟14A機場的那個旅館的,總共是19萬7千多人。也就是說具體的數字,很多人搭乘普通車,因為他沒有直搭車,有38%的人就是直接去機場。"},{"start":1130.891,"end":1153.933,"text":"所以我要拜託這個數據我想私下我再給交通部我再給行政院你們參考一下我在講的是普通車也承載了南向我們的國人旅客直接要去機場的這樣的一個國家的責任所以我覺得應該要給予補助這個部分如果數字是這樣院長你是不是能夠至少不能是0%吧"},{"start":1155.574,"end":1180.049,"text":"我想這個謝謝委員跟捷運公司調出這個資料因為我們以往沒有這樣的一個數據那這個數據當然也就請這個桃園市政府來提供在會議上讓這個政府院長也能夠納入考慮那確實你如果說是這樣的話那就要看說哪一些我不曉得他這個數據"},{"start":1182.35,"end":1202.748,"text":"做的是從哪裏進站的?親埔地區A17是親埔有三站親埔地區有中壢和親埔跟高鐵一直到中壢市區從親埔去的話對親埔到中壢市區上車要往北向坐到站點下車有這麼多這樣的好不好?"},{"start":1203.328,"end":1207.813,"text":"我只提供一個意見你們可以掉一整年的好不好但是拜託普通車不要零趴他也承載了國家責任這是我今天"},{"start":1222.529,"end":1223.41,"text":"接下來要請教一個重大的問題"},{"start":1248.035,"end":1271.584,"text":"因為是我在上屆立委這個一上任的時候主要關心的問題一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的一個問題這是三年前110年3月整整三年前提出總諮詢去跟交通部那當時我記得應該已經是王部長那我就只想問一件事因為當時的這個部分是走到這個工程"},{"start":1276.223,"end":1293.552,"text":"公程動工預計是111年4月,現在的時間點是113年的3月。我想請教一下,因為院長可能軌道工程他管太多,我想請教部長。民眾人在問我,完工日期"},{"start":1295.322,"end":1316.833,"text":"還是這三站桃園內地中壢118年4月其他的是119年7月他這個部分還是這樣嗎因為你2月29號我跟邱樂華兩位交通委員跟你們開會你提供我的資料還是這個日期還是嗎確定嗎要不要校正一下應該各加三年"},{"start":1318.018,"end":1330.136,"text":"各加三年。原因第一個是桃園站的文資。第二個因為現在憑證的延伸要放到這一期裡面。所以應該各加三年。再加三年?各加三年,對。你老實啊,那我可以下課了。"},{"start":1333.449,"end":1359.93,"text":"但是拜託不要再給我這個報告你說今天再加三年跟我講真心話可是三個禮拜你就沒跟我講真心話好啦那今天的情況那你也知道就現在施工進度只有憑證開工啦就總工程主體工程他的全工程進度0.18而已啦距離還很遠啦這我沒有要怪誰啦就是事實的資料讓民眾期待"},{"start":1360.49,"end":1360.51,"text":"臨時訪問委員"},{"start":1378.371,"end":1389.137,"text":"的站當然大家知道會延期嘛可是我們講先不要講憑證好不好先不要講憑證發生的事大家看前面三個是當時承諾108年世衛會完工的"},{"start":1392.073,"end":1415.159,"text":"桃園內立中立三站說我們118年會完工的現在發生什麼事呢當然我也謝謝鐵道局努力啦終於發包出去了啦所以我倒不是在有發包出去不錯了但是現在發包出去我們一看工期嘛以桃園站預計7月開工你們跟他合約簽訂的日曆天的工期嘛公共工程委員委員會也在這裡嘛"},{"start":1416.179,"end":1439.049,"text":"兩千四百六十四天啊將近六年多的時間啊我就簡單就是沒有任何的理由再來常常不可規則的一天都不延也要到一百二十年對不對那終於也是啊到一百二十年五月所以你的意思說一百一十八年本來的你加三年所以我就沒有意見了就比如說"},{"start":1440.43,"end":1452.106,"text":"一定會有還要工程一定還會演一點有桃園戰現在有三大不確定會造成比較大延期的因素第一個就是您剛剛很了解的憑證難言"},{"start":1455.387,"end":1479.681,"text":"1.2公里那個比較嚴重耶因為現在修改計畫之後還要重新環境評估、環差分析再來走一遍其實我聽了有一點頭痛那第二個是桃園站的文資問題文資的問題但是我覺得要積極啦要積極那當然第三個其實就是經費的問題"},{"start":1482.489,"end":1508.249,"text":"我要拜託現在這是另外一個角度來反戰現在這個問題啊。現在台灣鐵路地下化現在發生什麼事啊?其實我們最近都在問欸內地戰還有三個戰還沒超標出去嘛。內地戰我們台灣醫院戰跟那個新北的鳳鳴戰我一直在問說欸四個戰已經終於今年標出去了另外三個怎麼不標不標不標?結果私下了解沒錢了。"},{"start":1509.039,"end":1530.901,"text":"沒錢的原因呢?我們只有一千零四十八億吧?報告院長部長你們看一下下面幾個數據就是我們系社PCM大約框了二十一用地費框六十六億然後臨時站臨時工程主體工程還有一些監照總共加起來"},{"start":1531.442,"end":1532.583,"text":"平政要重新提一個修正計劃。"},{"start":1553.66,"end":1580.598,"text":"他現在要把內力站、桃園站、鳳鳴站整個包進去啊包進去啊去走一個奇幻旅遊啊奇幻旅遊就一直等等等等其他三個本來沒問題的嘛本來沒問題只是差錢但你把它包進去他就要等環差分析他要等重新國發會整個繞一圈因為我很多工程繞幾圈我都清楚我很害怕可是第一個"},{"start":1581.926,"end":1602.271,"text":"原來的1046億現在幾乎很明確會變成1500億以上,那這個部分經費會不會有問題?這個部長覺得?包括南沿還有包括整個物價上漲的部分,我們初估會增加700億。"},{"start":1603.831,"end":1604.732,"text":"施政計畫現在已經完成了,準備來報施政計畫。"},{"start":1618.806,"end":1647.151,"text":"所以增加700億,好,因為我這邊算就至少是500億啦,所以你說真的700億,我是覺得就一次把大概的可能情況講清楚,這種東西不要微調,也許民眾覺得哇怎麼那麼多,但是事實上大家在這個領域提出具體的核算的數字,因為我問鐵道局局長啊,他死不講耶,他沒有吃那個老實素的藥,所以他死不講,他說可能一毛沒增加,哇靠。"},{"start":1648.512,"end":1677.131,"text":"但是今天把這個事情講清楚所以現在要非常積極我要拜託院長要不管未來因為要扯到國發會又要再繞一圈又要我們行政院我想現在可以去做的可以去評估的我要拜託要簡化鳳鳴站、陶藝站、內地的整個過程不要讓他們再受折磨一次大家排隊能不能讓他們先排出來這三案先走然後憑證延伸案"},{"start":1678.151,"end":1687.097,"text":"因為他還要環差分析嘛。他的速度會慢一點。這個部分是不是請你們考量能夠分工分別來做一個處理可以嗎?"},{"start":1687.987,"end":1699.997,"text":"你意思是說分斷通車的意思是嗎?分斷嗎?不是啦,我說工程啦。喔工程喔,我們現在就花包,現在該走就走。我知道啦,你現在內力,你整個繞完之後,環差分析我跟你講一年啦。"},{"start":1708.052,"end":1728.351,"text":"一年之後你才讓他發包。我跟你講喔,其他的工程是含有暫提的喔,含有暫提的。它的複雜性不像平正延伸工程,它只是地下讓軌道拉長,它相對的工程、工法、工期會減少很多。所以你不能讓他們弄在一起。到最後,"},{"start":1729.111,"end":1733.354,"text":"拜託這三個公職都要很久,一定要讓他們先一個單獨一個案子先跑,讓他們先發報,憑證要經過這個"},{"start":1751.143,"end":1752.824,"text":"楊局長是不是這樣?你好像臉色不太同意喔?"},{"start":1767.984,"end":1790.176,"text":"拜託這三個只欠東風的錢的案子讓他們先跑啦趕快找到錢先發包另外一個還有很多行政程序要經過發會的那我們在另外的行政來推動好不好我就做這樣的一個拜託也希望院長能夠再多幫忙謝謝非常謝謝"}]}}}}