{"id":150305,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150305","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b4cbb529a623e27e0e5559e54a1be29d3f8ba9b0039caa7a6143135dfc7cd52815ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:15:43 - 09:25:33","影片長度":"00:09:50","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案(含報告事項20案及討論事項1案)。\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-8"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":590,"end_time":"2024-03-25T09:25:33+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T09:15:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":238,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時15分）謝謝主席，麻煩請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：陳委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長早安！部長，請問您知道我們去年6月跟美國完成臺美21世紀貿易倡議第一階段的協商嗎？"],["許部長銘春：是，我知道。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，您瞭解我們已經完成第一階段協商，那部長知道接下來第二階段協商的談判內容，會涉及到跟勞動部有直接相關的業務……"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長也瞭解，好，我跟部長說明，在臺美第二階段的談判中，勞動權益是非常重要的關鍵議題，因為過去美國跟其他國家，包括加拿大、墨西哥等簽訂所謂的美加墨貿易協定時，會要求對方國家的法規要符合國際核心勞動基準，例如2019年時，美國眾議院議長裴洛西要求墨西哥必須完全建立保障勞工權益的立法，而且很清楚地表示，除非墨西哥新的法令到位，確保墨西哥勞工有組織工會的權利，否則眾議院不會審議這個協定。後來墨西哥國內立了法，強化勞工的權利，最終美國也同意簽署，才通過這個貿易協定。我們回到臺美21世紀貿易倡議，請問部長，勞動部準備好了嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們現在其實都還在協商討論當中，已經開過幾次會，甚至我們的同仁也到美國，司長也有過去，跟他們當面面對面做一些討論、協商。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我其實有點擔心，因為去年6月完成第一階段協商，7月24日在立法院審查，當時委員有通過一項附帶決議：為期我國勞動法規符合國際核心勞動基準，及順利推動臺美貿易協定，請行政院3個月內邀請專家學者、民間團體進行研商、盤點及檢討相關法規。因為勞動部是負責勞動法令的主管機關，所以行政院交給你們負責找專家學者、民間團體來溝通、盤點相關法規，部長記得這件事嗎？"],["許部長銘春：記得。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，在3個月後，就是10月25日你們回復立法院這項附帶決議的辦理情形，雖然當時我還不是立法委員，不過我看到勞動部的回復，實在感到相當憂心，因為立法院在7月通過這項附帶決議，要求你們召開相關會議，並做法規的盤點，結果你們回復說召開3場十大核心勞動公約法規的檢視會議。問題是其中兩場是在之前欸！在2月跟4月，也就是說，針對這個附帶決議，你們3個月來只召開過一次會議！我想瞭解，勞動部是覺得本來的準備已經很完整、充足，只要再開這麼一次會議就可以因應這個貿易談判，還是說有點交差了事呢？"],["許部長銘春：不是，不是，委員，因為決議是請我們召開相關會議，這個事情我們很重視，有持續在做，所以在行政院決議之前我們就已經有開會了，當然決議之後開了一場，但我們後續還會再開，今年4月，也就是下個月還會再召開。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，因為這個問題在進行中，所以我們非常關心，我們來看看這3次會議當中討論了哪些議題，就是符合十大核心勞動公約所涵蓋的五個面向，我稍微念一下，就是禁止強迫勞動、禁止工作歧視、禁止童工、結社自由跟集體協商權利，還有職業安全衛生。根據勞動部提供的資料，目前只完成了二項。部長，臺美貿易倡議第二階段談判已經是現在進行式，我們的貿易代表都已經在談判桌了，結果勞動部到現在只盤點了五分之二的議題。部長，我談的是盤點，我都還沒有提到實質修法的層次，鄧振中政委去年10月特別提到，有關環境議題的部分進展順利，我想請問部長，勞動議題的部分呢？我很擔心會不會因為勞動部，讓我們在貿易談判上卡關？"],["許部長銘春：不會！委員，我們一定會……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長這麼確定不會？"],["許部長銘春：其實勞動議題還蠻複雜的，我們現在……"],["陳委員昭姿：但是你們的進度……"],["許部長銘春：對，我跟委員說明我們的進度，禁止童工，還有結社自由與集體協商權利已經討論完畢了，4月份就要討論職業安全。"],["陳委員昭姿：那個進度讓我們再多瞭解一下。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我想請問，您知道美國最在意我們哪一方面的勞動議題嗎？"],["許部長銘春：移工跟強迫勞動的這部分。"],["陳委員昭姿：我跟部長報告，美國最在意的是遠洋漁工的權益……"],["許部長銘春：對，遠洋漁工。"],["陳委員昭姿：尤其是外籍漁工，我們好不容易在2019年被歐盟解除黃牌，結果在2020年跟2022年，卻被美國勞動部發布的「童工及強迫勞動製品清單」，將臺灣列入其中，我們產出的漁獲被美國勞動部視為跟泰國、印尼、中國、迦納等國一樣，報告中清楚的寫著是透過壓榨漁工、強迫勞動所得來的血汗海鮮。報告裡清楚的提到漁工面臨哪些遭遇，包括護照被沒收、長時間無法與外界聯繫、22小時不間斷連續工作、生活環境惡劣、遭肢體暴力、苛扣工資等，這個清單每兩年發布一次，所以今年下半年會發布2024年的報告，部長覺得今年我們還會在那個清單上面嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我跟你說明一下，其實遠洋漁業勞工的主要權責機關在漁業署，我們勞動部也會針對這個問題協助他們落實有關漁工人權的保障，其實我記得我們有……"],["陳委員昭姿：我們就是希望不要再被放到這個名單裡面。"],["許部長銘春：我知道，我知道，其實我們跟漁業署針對他們所關心的這部分有一些積極的作為……"],["陳委員昭姿：我希望我們可以脫離這個名單。"],["許部長銘春：對，他們有一些積極作為，而美方也瞭解其實我們是有在努力的，也有一些成果，包括我記得漁業署也有跟TIFA這些關心的團體來討論。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，還有喔！美國國務院也對臺灣漁工非常關心，2023年美國國務院人口販運問題報告同樣提到，我們外籍漁工都經歷過拖欠工資、身體虐待、扣留食物、身分證，甚至強制分攤船舶運營成本，他們認為船主是透過這些手段強迫他們勞動。部長，對於這些遠洋漁工的處境，你會不會於心不忍？"],["許部長銘春：當然我們不希望這種事情發生，跟委員報告，這個是遠洋漁業，近海的通通是符合勞基法，那遠洋漁業……"],["陳委員昭姿：但是他們都關心啦！有兩個部門欸！國務院跟勞動部。"],["許部長銘春：我跟委員說明，如果以近海漁工來講，都沒有問題，現在是遠洋漁業的部分，而權責機關農業部漁業署也很積極在處理，包括薪資問題，我記得我們去年也有協助他們提高……"],["陳委員昭姿：我希望不要成為談判協議卡關……"],["許部長銘春：還有直接入帳戶等等，勞動部也站在專業的立場協助他們。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，還有一個美國非常關心的有關一般外籍移工權益的問題，其中一個問題就是仲介服務費。長期研究勞動議題的凌怡華博士指出，我也是看了這個才知道，臺灣竟然是唯一有法規明定移工要付服務費給仲介的國家，所以美國國務院2022年人權報告提到，臺灣的仲介向外國工人收取過高的招聘費，就是服務費，而且這些移工在母國也要還債給當地的仲介，這是一種債務強迫勞動，所以美國國務院清楚的建議，希望臺灣能夠取消、消除向移工徵收任何費用，目前每個月大概是1,500到1,800，3年大概是6萬元，這對因為經濟困難而到臺灣工作的移工而言，真的是情何以堪！部長，勞動部是不是有可能取消向移工收取服務費這樣的一個態度、立場和想法？"],["許部長銘春：其實移工的服務費，並不是強制的，移工有需要服務，他要委託仲介才需要付費……"],["陳委員昭姿：但是這個服務你又很難去稽核，他們人生地不熟，大概也不敢不交……"],["許部長銘春：這個我們都會稽核、訪視，我們不准他亂收啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：部長理解就好，因為這個收費3年總共6萬元，對雇主大概……"],["許部長銘春：基本上是有服務才可以收費。"],["陳委員昭姿：對仲介是九牛一毛……"],["許部長銘春：這個就是移工的自由意志，這個在法律上沒有強制一定要付服務費"],["陳委員昭姿：好。部長，最後，就是去年有一部很紅的臺劇叫做八尺門的辯護人，其中有一段故事，就是描述一個遠洋漁工被臺灣籍船長虐待，然後扣留護照，造成不可挽回的悲劇，這是參考2016年發生的和春61號事件，我是希望勞動部的官員能夠將心比心，好好對待這些來臺灣服務的移工朋友，因為大家都說臺灣最美的風景是人，那我們是不是也應該給這些移工一個更友好、更人道的勞動條件，好嗎？"],["許部長銘春：是，謝謝委員，我們會努力，我認同您的觀點，謝謝。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝部長。謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳昭姿委員。","接下來請陳菁徽委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-8","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","王育敏","盧縣一","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","黃國昌","賴士葆","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","徐巧芯","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-25"],"gazette_id":"1131901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實\n職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動\n部主管預算凍結案21案（含報告事項20案及討論事項1案）","agenda_id":"1131901_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150305","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150305","tool":"pyannote","id":"150305-pyannote"},"job_id":"1W3geW7Dec5fYr8S","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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306.845, \"end\": 306.865, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 306.865, \"end\": 306.885, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 306.885, \"end\": 306.965, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 306.965, \"end\": 306.985, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 306.985, \"end\": 307.005, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 307.005, \"end\": 307.166, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 307.166, \"end\": 307.346, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"壓\"}, {\"word\": \"榨\"}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 307.346, \"end\": 307.366, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 331.165, \"end\": 358.365, \"text\": \"強迫勞動所得來的血汗海鮮那報告裡清楚的提到說漁工面臨哪些的遭遇包括護照被沒收長時間無法跟外界聯繫22小時不間斷的連續工作工作生活環境惡劣招肢體暴力、苛扣工資等那這個清單是每年發布一次所以今年下半年因為會發布2024年的報告部長你覺得今年我們還會在那個清單上面嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"迫\", \"start\": 331.165, \"end\": 332.226, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": 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\"我跟您說明一下其實遠洋漁業的勞工的主要前者機關在漁業署那我們勞動部也有針對這個問題協助他們去落實這個有關於漁工人權的保障那其實我記得我們有我們就是希望不要再被放到這個名單裡面所以我們其實跟就是漁業署有針對這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 359.325, \"end\": 359.485, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 359.485, \"end\": 359.585, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 359.585, \"end\": 359.925, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 359.925, \"end\": 360.026, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 360.026, \"end\": 360.066, \"score\": 0.544}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 360.066, \"end\": 360.286, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 360.286, \"end\": 360.646, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"遠\"}, {\"word\": \"洋\", \"start\": 360.646, \"end\": 361.806, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 361.806, \"end\": 362.767, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 362.767, \"end\": 363.267, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 586.421, \"end\": 586.441, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,552 --> 00:00:06,913\n謝謝主席麻煩請許部長請許部長陳副委員好部長早安部長請問您知道我們去年6月跟這個美國完成臺美21世紀的這個貿易這個倡議第一階段的協商您瞭解我們已經完成了第一階段的協商那部長知道接下來的第二段協商的談判內容會涉及到跟勞動部直接相關的這個\n\n2\n00:00:37,325 --> 00:00:52,515\n在臺美第二階段的談判中勞動權益是非常重要的關鍵議題因為過去美國在跟其他的國家包括加拿大、墨西哥等等簽訂所謂的美加墨貿易協定的時候他會要求對方國家\n\n3\n00:00:53,896 --> 00:01:12,507\n法規要符合國際核心的勞動基礎例如2019年的時候美國眾議院的議長培洛西他要求墨西哥必須完全建立保障勞工的權益的一個立法而且他很清楚地表示除非墨西哥的新的法令到位確保墨西哥勞工有組織公會的權利否則眾議院不會去審議這個協定後來墨西哥國內訂了立法\n\n4\n00:01:18,911 --> 00:01:27,433\n然後強化勞工的權利最終美國也同意了簽署才通過這個貿易協定那我們回到今天的臺美21世紀的貿易倡議請問部長勞動部準備好了嗎報告委員我們現在其實都還在協商討論當中已經開過幾次會甚至我們的同仁也到美國去師長也有過去有跟他們當面面對面的做一些討論協商\n\n5\n00:01:45,058 --> 00:01:50,963\n我其實有點擔心因為去年6月完成第一段協定但7月24號的時候在立法院這邊有審查當時我也有通過了一些附帶的這個決議就是為其我國勞動的法規符合國際核心勞動基準還有能夠順利推動這個台美貿易協定\n\n6\n00:02:01,733 --> 00:02:06,098\n所以當時請行政院3個月內邀請專家學者還有民間團體來進行研商盤點及檢討相關法規那因為勞動部是負責勞動法律主管機關所以行政院交給你們來負責找專家學者跟民間團體來溝通盤點相關法規那部長您記得這件事嗎\n\n7\n00:02:22,115 --> 00:02:37,363\n那部長在3個月後就是11月25號那回覆了立法院對象附帶決議的辦理情形雖然當時我還不是立法委員不過我看到勞動部的回覆我實在感到相當的憂心因為立法院在7月通過的這個附帶決議要求你們召開相關會並做法規的一個盤點結果你們回覆說有開了三場\n\n8\n00:02:44,187 --> 00:03:05,606\n十大核心勞動公約法規的檢視會議但是其中兩場是在之前在這個二月跟四月也就是說針對這個附帶決議你們三個月來做的就只有一件事只召開一次會議那我想了解勞動部是覺得本來的準備就已經很完整了很充足了只要再開這麼一次會議就可以來因應這個貿易談判\n\n9\n00:03:07,908 --> 00:03:27,480\n還是說有點交差了事呢?因為他說請我們召開相關會議嘛那我想我們這個案這個事情就我們重視所以持續啦在行政決議之前我們就已經有開了當然當然決議之後開了一場那我們後續還會開今年4月下個月\n\n10\n00:03:31,081 --> 00:03:54,811\n這個問題是在進行中所以我們是非常關心我們來看看這三次會議當中討論哪些議題就是在符合十大的這個核心勞動公約總共涵蓋五個面向我稍微念一下禁止強迫勞動禁止工作歧視禁止同工結社自由跟集體協商的權利還有職業安全衛生那麼根據勞動部提供的資料目前只完成了兩項\n\n11\n00:03:56,473 --> 00:04:07,532\n部長您知道臺美倡議第二節我剛剛談到已經是現在進行式那我們貿易的代表都已經在談判桌上了那結果勞動部到現在只盤點了五分之二的這個議題\n\n12\n00:04:09,676 --> 00:04:25,688\n部長我談的是盤點我都還沒提到實質修法的層次鄧正宗政委他去年10月有特別提到環境議題的部分他們覺得很順利那我就想請問部長勞動議題的部分我很擔心會不會因為勞動部的這個部分讓我們在貿易談判上會卡關不會\n\n13\n00:04:31,152 --> 00:04:35,235\n委員我們一定會部長這麼有這個確定我們其實這件事情因為這種其實勞動議題還蠻複雜的那是我們的進度對我們的進度我跟委員說明你們這邊的禁止童工還有結社自由與集體享用這已經討論完畢了\n\n14\n00:04:46,804 --> 00:04:58,978\n現在對那現在4月份就是要討論那個那個進度就讓我們再多了解一下部長我想請問您知道美國最在意我們哪一方面的勞動議題嗎\n\n15\n00:05:01,681 --> 00:05:07,366\n我來跟部長報告美國最在意的是遠洋漁工的權益尤其是外籍漁工我們好不容易在2019年被歐盟解除這個黃牌結果在2020年跟2022年卻被美國勞動部發布的這個同工及強迫勞動製品清單把臺灣列在其中那我們產出的漁貨被美國勞動部市委跟泰國、印尼、中國、加拿大等國報告清楚的結果就是透過壓榨漁工\n\n16\n00:05:31,165 --> 00:05:58,365\n強迫勞動所得來的血汗海鮮那報告裡清楚的提到說漁工面臨哪些的遭遇包括護照被沒收長時間無法跟外界聯繫22小時不間斷的連續工作工作生活環境惡劣招肢體暴力、苛扣工資等那這個清單是每年發布一次所以今年下半年因為會發布2024年的報告部長你覺得今年我們還會在那個清單上面嗎\n\n17\n00:05:59,325 --> 00:06:22,816\n我跟您說明一下其實遠洋漁業的勞工的主要前者機關在漁業署那我們勞動部也有針對這個問題協助他們去落實這個有關於漁工人權的保障那其實我記得我們有我們就是希望不要再被放到這個名單裡面所以我們其實跟就是漁業署有針對這個\n\n18\n00:06:27,966 --> 00:06:44,054\n這個他們所關心的東西我希望我們可以脫離這個名單他們有一些積極的作為其實美方也瞭解美方也瞭解我們其實也在做努力也有一些成果包括我們也跟我記得樂署也有跟TIVA這些關心的還有\n\n19\n00:06:46,176 --> 00:07:01,270\n國務院美國國務院也對台灣遠洋漁工非常關心2023年美國國務院人口販運問題報告同樣提到我們外籍漁工都經過拖欠工資身體虐待、扣留食物、身分證這是強制分擔船舶的運營成本就是說他們認為船主是透過這些手段強迫他們勞動部長對於這些遠洋漁工的處境你會不會於心不忍\n\n20\n00:07:10,658 --> 00:07:30,974\n當然我們不希望這種事情發生我跟委員報告這個是遠洋漁業的近海的通通是符合勞基法那遠洋漁業的但是他們都關心啦兩個部門欸國務院跟勞動部欸對我再跟委員說明說如果近海的漁工來講都沒有問題現在是遠洋漁業的部分那這個權責機關農業部的漁業署這邊也很積極在處理啦\n\n21\n00:07:35,257 --> 00:08:01,328\n包括那個薪資我都記得我們去年要幫協助他們我希望不要成為我們談判協議的這個卡關等等我們都有勞動部也站在我們的專業立場協助他們還有一個美國非常關心的就是一般的外籍移工的權益其中一個問題就是仲介服務費長期研究勞動議題的這個林怡華博士有指出這個我也是看了這才知道臺灣竟然是唯一有法規民地移工收\n\n22\n00:08:02,288 --> 00:08:16,023\n這個移工要付服務費給仲介的國家所以美國國務院在2022年的人權報告提到臺灣的仲介向外國工人收取高的招聘費就是服務費而且這移工在母國也被當地的仲介在還債這是一種債務強迫勞動\n\n23\n00:08:18,365 --> 00:08:27,632\n所以美國國務院有清楚的建議是不是希望臺灣能夠取消消除向移工爭取任何費用因為目前每個月大概1500到1800三年大概6萬元但是對於這個因為經濟困難到臺灣來工作的移工其實是情何以干所以我想說部長是不是覺得有可能取消這個向移工收取服務費的這樣的一個態度的立場你的立場想法\n\n24\n00:08:42,103 --> 00:08:54,913\n這個服務費在移工他不是強制的移工有需要服務他委託中心才需要付費但是這個服務你有很難去集合嗎他們人生地不熟大概這個我們都會做集合做訪視\n\n25\n00:08:57,054 --> 00:09:11,928\n我們不准他亂收啦部長理解就好因為這個收費大概3年會總共6萬啦對顧主大概對仲介是九牛一毛這個就是移工他的自由意志啦這個在法律上沒有強制說他一定要付服務\n\n26\n00:09:12,088 --> 00:09:18,292\n最後一個就是去年有個很紅的一段台劇《八尺門的辯護人》其中有一段故事就是描述一個員工被臺灣船長的虐待然後扣留護照引發災造成不可挽回的悲劇這是參考2010年發生的這個河村61號事件我是希望勞動部的官員能夠將心比心好好對待這些來臺灣服務的移工朋友因為大家都說臺灣最美的風景是人那我們是不是應該也給這些移工一個更友好更人道的一個勞動\n\n27\n00:09:42,148 --> 00:09:46,441\n的條件,好嗎?謝偉,我們會努力,我們同您的觀點。謝謝部長,謝謝主席。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4552\t6913\t謝謝主席麻煩請許部長請許部長陳副委員好部長早安部長請問您知道我們去年6月跟這個美國完成臺美21世紀的這個貿易這個倡議第一階段的協商您瞭解我們已經完成了第一階段的協商那部長知道接下來的第二段協商的談判內容會涉及到跟勞動部直接相關的這個\n37325\t52515\t在臺美第二階段的談判中勞動權益是非常重要的關鍵議題因為過去美國在跟其他的國家包括加拿大、墨西哥等等簽訂所謂的美加墨貿易協定的時候他會要求對方國家\n53896\t72507\t法規要符合國際核心的勞動基礎例如2019年的時候美國眾議院的議長培洛西他要求墨西哥必須完全建立保障勞工的權益的一個立法而且他很清楚地表示除非墨西哥的新的法令到位確保墨西哥勞工有組織公會的權利否則眾議院不會去審議這個協定後來墨西哥國內訂了立法\n78911\t87433\t然後強化勞工的權利最終美國也同意了簽署才通過這個貿易協定那我們回到今天的臺美21世紀的貿易倡議請問部長勞動部準備好了嗎報告委員我們現在其實都還在協商討論當中已經開過幾次會甚至我們的同仁也到美國去師長也有過去有跟他們當面面對面的做一些討論協商\n105058\t110963\t我其實有點擔心因為去年6月完成第一段協定但7月24號的時候在立法院這邊有審查當時我也有通過了一些附帶的這個決議就是為其我國勞動的法規符合國際核心勞動基準還有能夠順利推動這個台美貿易協定\n121733\t126098\t所以當時請行政院3個月內邀請專家學者還有民間團體來進行研商盤點及檢討相關法規那因為勞動部是負責勞動法律主管機關所以行政院交給你們來負責找專家學者跟民間團體來溝通盤點相關法規那部長您記得這件事嗎\n142115\t157363\t那部長在3個月後就是11月25號那回覆了立法院對象附帶決議的辦理情形雖然當時我還不是立法委員不過我看到勞動部的回覆我實在感到相當的憂心因為立法院在7月通過的這個附帶決議要求你們召開相關會並做法規的一個盤點結果你們回覆說有開了三場\n164187\t185606\t十大核心勞動公約法規的檢視會議但是其中兩場是在之前在這個二月跟四月也就是說針對這個附帶決議你們三個月來做的就只有一件事只召開一次會議那我想了解勞動部是覺得本來的準備就已經很完整了很充足了只要再開這麼一次會議就可以來因應這個貿易談判\n187908\t207480\t還是說有點交差了事呢?因為他說請我們召開相關會議嘛那我想我們這個案這個事情就我們重視所以持續啦在行政決議之前我們就已經有開了當然當然決議之後開了一場那我們後續還會開今年4月下個月\n211081\t234811\t這個問題是在進行中所以我們是非常關心我們來看看這三次會議當中討論哪些議題就是在符合十大的這個核心勞動公約總共涵蓋五個面向我稍微念一下禁止強迫勞動禁止工作歧視禁止同工結社自由跟集體協商的權利還有職業安全衛生那麼根據勞動部提供的資料目前只完成了兩項\n236473\t247532\t部長您知道臺美倡議第二節我剛剛談到已經是現在進行式那我們貿易的代表都已經在談判桌上了那結果勞動部到現在只盤點了五分之二的這個議題\n249676\t265688\t部長我談的是盤點我都還沒提到實質修法的層次鄧正宗政委他去年10月有特別提到環境議題的部分他們覺得很順利那我就想請問部長勞動議題的部分我很擔心會不會因為勞動部的這個部分讓我們在貿易談判上會卡關不會\n271152\t275235\t委員我們一定會部長這麼有這個確定我們其實這件事情因為這種其實勞動議題還蠻複雜的那是我們的進度對我們的進度我跟委員說明你們這邊的禁止童工還有結社自由與集體享用這已經討論完畢了\n286804\t298978\t現在對那現在4月份就是要討論那個那個進度就讓我們再多了解一下部長我想請問您知道美國最在意我們哪一方面的勞動議題嗎\n301681\t307366\t我來跟部長報告美國最在意的是遠洋漁工的權益尤其是外籍漁工我們好不容易在2019年被歐盟解除這個黃牌結果在2020年跟2022年卻被美國勞動部發布的這個同工及強迫勞動製品清單把臺灣列在其中那我們產出的漁貨被美國勞動部市委跟泰國、印尼、中國、加拿大等國報告清楚的結果就是透過壓榨漁工\n331165\t358365\t強迫勞動所得來的血汗海鮮那報告裡清楚的提到說漁工面臨哪些的遭遇包括護照被沒收長時間無法跟外界聯繫22小時不間斷的連續工作工作生活環境惡劣招肢體暴力、苛扣工資等那這個清單是每年發布一次所以今年下半年因為會發布2024年的報告部長你覺得今年我們還會在那個清單上面嗎\n359325\t382816\t我跟您說明一下其實遠洋漁業的勞工的主要前者機關在漁業署那我們勞動部也有針對這個問題協助他們去落實這個有關於漁工人權的保障那其實我記得我們有我們就是希望不要再被放到這個名單裡面所以我們其實跟就是漁業署有針對這個\n387966\t404054\t這個他們所關心的東西我希望我們可以脫離這個名單他們有一些積極的作為其實美方也瞭解美方也瞭解我們其實也在做努力也有一些成果包括我們也跟我記得樂署也有跟TIVA這些關心的還有\n406176\t421270\t國務院美國國務院也對台灣遠洋漁工非常關心2023年美國國務院人口販運問題報告同樣提到我們外籍漁工都經過拖欠工資身體虐待、扣留食物、身分證這是強制分擔船舶的運營成本就是說他們認為船主是透過這些手段強迫他們勞動部長對於這些遠洋漁工的處境你會不會於心不忍\n430658\t450974\t當然我們不希望這種事情發生我跟委員報告這個是遠洋漁業的近海的通通是符合勞基法那遠洋漁業的但是他們都關心啦兩個部門欸國務院跟勞動部欸對我再跟委員說明說如果近海的漁工來講都沒有問題現在是遠洋漁業的部分那這個權責機關農業部的漁業署這邊也很積極在處理啦\n455257\t481328\t包括那個薪資我都記得我們去年要幫協助他們我希望不要成為我們談判協議的這個卡關等等我們都有勞動部也站在我們的專業立場協助他們還有一個美國非常關心的就是一般的外籍移工的權益其中一個問題就是仲介服務費長期研究勞動議題的這個林怡華博士有指出這個我也是看了這才知道臺灣竟然是唯一有法規民地移工收\n482288\t496023\t這個移工要付服務費給仲介的國家所以美國國務院在2022年的人權報告提到臺灣的仲介向外國工人收取高的招聘費就是服務費而且這移工在母國也被當地的仲介在還債這是一種債務強迫勞動\n498365\t507632\t所以美國國務院有清楚的建議是不是希望臺灣能夠取消消除向移工爭取任何費用因為目前每個月大概1500到1800三年大概6萬元但是對於這個因為經濟困難到臺灣來工作的移工其實是情何以干所以我想說部長是不是覺得有可能取消這個向移工收取服務費的這樣的一個態度的立場你的立場想法\n522103\t534913\t這個服務費在移工他不是強制的移工有需要服務他委託中心才需要付費但是這個服務你有很難去集合嗎他們人生地不熟大概這個我們都會做集合做訪視\n537054\t551928\t我們不准他亂收啦部長理解就好因為這個收費大概3年會總共6萬啦對顧主大概對仲介是九牛一毛這個就是移工他的自由意志啦這個在法律上沒有強制說他一定要付服務\n552088\t558292\t最後一個就是去年有個很紅的一段台劇《八尺門的辯護人》其中有一段故事就是描述一個員工被臺灣船長的虐待然後扣留護照引發災造成不可挽回的悲劇這是參考2010年發生的這個河村61號事件我是希望勞動部的官員能夠將心比心好好對待這些來臺灣服務的移工朋友因為大家都說臺灣最美的風景是人那我們是不是應該也給這些移工一個更友好更人道的一個勞動\n582148\t586441\t的條件,好嗎?謝偉,我們會努力,我們同您的觀點。謝謝部長,謝謝主席。\n","txt":"謝謝主席麻煩請許部長請許部長陳副委員好部長早安部長請問您知道我們去年6月跟這個美國完成臺美21世紀的這個貿易這個倡議第一階段的協商您瞭解我們已經完成了第一階段的協商那部長知道接下來的第二段協商的談判內容會涉及到跟勞動部直接相關的這個\n在臺美第二階段的談判中勞動權益是非常重要的關鍵議題因為過去美國在跟其他的國家包括加拿大、墨西哥等等簽訂所謂的美加墨貿易協定的時候他會要求對方國家\n法規要符合國際核心的勞動基礎例如2019年的時候美國眾議院的議長培洛西他要求墨西哥必須完全建立保障勞工的權益的一個立法而且他很清楚地表示除非墨西哥的新的法令到位確保墨西哥勞工有組織公會的權利否則眾議院不會去審議這個協定後來墨西哥國內訂了立法\n然後強化勞工的權利最終美國也同意了簽署才通過這個貿易協定那我們回到今天的臺美21世紀的貿易倡議請問部長勞動部準備好了嗎報告委員我們現在其實都還在協商討論當中已經開過幾次會甚至我們的同仁也到美國去師長也有過去有跟他們當面面對面的做一些討論協商\n我其實有點擔心因為去年6月完成第一段協定但7月24號的時候在立法院這邊有審查當時我也有通過了一些附帶的這個決議就是為其我國勞動的法規符合國際核心勞動基準還有能夠順利推動這個台美貿易協定\n所以當時請行政院3個月內邀請專家學者還有民間團體來進行研商盤點及檢討相關法規那因為勞動部是負責勞動法律主管機關所以行政院交給你們來負責找專家學者跟民間團體來溝通盤點相關法規那部長您記得這件事嗎\n那部長在3個月後就是11月25號那回覆了立法院對象附帶決議的辦理情形雖然當時我還不是立法委員不過我看到勞動部的回覆我實在感到相當的憂心因為立法院在7月通過的這個附帶決議要求你們召開相關會並做法規的一個盤點結果你們回覆說有開了三場\n十大核心勞動公約法規的檢視會議但是其中兩場是在之前在這個二月跟四月也就是說針對這個附帶決議你們三個月來做的就只有一件事只召開一次會議那我想了解勞動部是覺得本來的準備就已經很完整了很充足了只要再開這麼一次會議就可以來因應這個貿易談判\n還是說有點交差了事呢?因為他說請我們召開相關會議嘛那我想我們這個案這個事情就我們重視所以持續啦在行政決議之前我們就已經有開了當然當然決議之後開了一場那我們後續還會開今年4月下個月\n這個問題是在進行中所以我們是非常關心我們來看看這三次會議當中討論哪些議題就是在符合十大的這個核心勞動公約總共涵蓋五個面向我稍微念一下禁止強迫勞動禁止工作歧視禁止同工結社自由跟集體協商的權利還有職業安全衛生那麼根據勞動部提供的資料目前只完成了兩項\n部長您知道臺美倡議第二節我剛剛談到已經是現在進行式那我們貿易的代表都已經在談判桌上了那結果勞動部到現在只盤點了五分之二的這個議題\n部長我談的是盤點我都還沒提到實質修法的層次鄧正宗政委他去年10月有特別提到環境議題的部分他們覺得很順利那我就想請問部長勞動議題的部分我很擔心會不會因為勞動部的這個部分讓我們在貿易談判上會卡關不會\n委員我們一定會部長這麼有這個確定我們其實這件事情因為這種其實勞動議題還蠻複雜的那是我們的進度對我們的進度我跟委員說明你們這邊的禁止童工還有結社自由與集體享用這已經討論完畢了\n現在對那現在4月份就是要討論那個那個進度就讓我們再多了解一下部長我想請問您知道美國最在意我們哪一方面的勞動議題嗎\n我來跟部長報告美國最在意的是遠洋漁工的權益尤其是外籍漁工我們好不容易在2019年被歐盟解除這個黃牌結果在2020年跟2022年卻被美國勞動部發布的這個同工及強迫勞動製品清單把臺灣列在其中那我們產出的漁貨被美國勞動部市委跟泰國、印尼、中國、加拿大等國報告清楚的結果就是透過壓榨漁工\n強迫勞動所得來的血汗海鮮那報告裡清楚的提到說漁工面臨哪些的遭遇包括護照被沒收長時間無法跟外界聯繫22小時不間斷的連續工作工作生活環境惡劣招肢體暴力、苛扣工資等那這個清單是每年發布一次所以今年下半年因為會發布2024年的報告部長你覺得今年我們還會在那個清單上面嗎\n我跟您說明一下其實遠洋漁業的勞工的主要前者機關在漁業署那我們勞動部也有針對這個問題協助他們去落實這個有關於漁工人權的保障那其實我記得我們有我們就是希望不要再被放到這個名單裡面所以我們其實跟就是漁業署有針對這個\n這個他們所關心的東西我希望我們可以脫離這個名單他們有一些積極的作為其實美方也瞭解美方也瞭解我們其實也在做努力也有一些成果包括我們也跟我記得樂署也有跟TIVA這些關心的還有\n國務院美國國務院也對台灣遠洋漁工非常關心2023年美國國務院人口販運問題報告同樣提到我們外籍漁工都經過拖欠工資身體虐待、扣留食物、身分證這是強制分擔船舶的運營成本就是說他們認為船主是透過這些手段強迫他們勞動部長對於這些遠洋漁工的處境你會不會於心不忍\n當然我們不希望這種事情發生我跟委員報告這個是遠洋漁業的近海的通通是符合勞基法那遠洋漁業的但是他們都關心啦兩個部門欸國務院跟勞動部欸對我再跟委員說明說如果近海的漁工來講都沒有問題現在是遠洋漁業的部分那這個權責機關農業部的漁業署這邊也很積極在處理啦\n包括那個薪資我都記得我們去年要幫協助他們我希望不要成為我們談判協議的這個卡關等等我們都有勞動部也站在我們的專業立場協助他們還有一個美國非常關心的就是一般的外籍移工的權益其中一個問題就是仲介服務費長期研究勞動議題的這個林怡華博士有指出這個我也是看了這才知道臺灣竟然是唯一有法規民地移工收\n這個移工要付服務費給仲介的國家所以美國國務院在2022年的人權報告提到臺灣的仲介向外國工人收取高的招聘費就是服務費而且這移工在母國也被當地的仲介在還債這是一種債務強迫勞動\n所以美國國務院有清楚的建議是不是希望臺灣能夠取消消除向移工爭取任何費用因為目前每個月大概1500到1800三年大概6萬元但是對於這個因為經濟困難到臺灣來工作的移工其實是情何以干所以我想說部長是不是覺得有可能取消這個向移工收取服務費的這樣的一個態度的立場你的立場想法\n這個服務費在移工他不是強制的移工有需要服務他委託中心才需要付費但是這個服務你有很難去集合嗎他們人生地不熟大概這個我們都會做集合做訪視\n我們不准他亂收啦部長理解就好因為這個收費大概3年會總共6萬啦對顧主大概對仲介是九牛一毛這個就是移工他的自由意志啦這個在法律上沒有強制說他一定要付服務\n最後一個就是去年有個很紅的一段台劇《八尺門的辯護人》其中有一段故事就是描述一個員工被臺灣船長的虐待然後扣留護照引發災造成不可挽回的悲劇這是參考2010年發生的這個河村61號事件我是希望勞動部的官員能夠將心比心好好對待這些來臺灣服務的移工朋友因為大家都說臺灣最美的風景是人那我們是不是應該也給這些移工一個更友好更人道的一個勞動\n的條件,好嗎?謝偉,我們會努力,我們同您的觀點。謝謝部長,謝謝主席。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.552 --> 00:06.913\n謝謝主席麻煩請許部長請許部長陳副委員好部長早安部長請問您知道我們去年6月跟這個美國完成臺美21世紀的這個貿易這個倡議第一階段的協商您瞭解我們已經完成了第一階段的協商那部長知道接下來的第二段協商的談判內容會涉及到跟勞動部直接相關的這個\n\n00:37.325 --> 00:52.515\n在臺美第二階段的談判中勞動權益是非常重要的關鍵議題因為過去美國在跟其他的國家包括加拿大、墨西哥等等簽訂所謂的美加墨貿易協定的時候他會要求對方國家\n\n00:53.896 --> 01:12.507\n法規要符合國際核心的勞動基礎例如2019年的時候美國眾議院的議長培洛西他要求墨西哥必須完全建立保障勞工的權益的一個立法而且他很清楚地表示除非墨西哥的新的法令到位確保墨西哥勞工有組織公會的權利否則眾議院不會去審議這個協定後來墨西哥國內訂了立法\n\n01:18.911 --> 01:27.433\n然後強化勞工的權利最終美國也同意了簽署才通過這個貿易協定那我們回到今天的臺美21世紀的貿易倡議請問部長勞動部準備好了嗎報告委員我們現在其實都還在協商討論當中已經開過幾次會甚至我們的同仁也到美國去師長也有過去有跟他們當面面對面的做一些討論協商\n\n01:45.058 --> 01:50.963\n我其實有點擔心因為去年6月完成第一段協定但7月24號的時候在立法院這邊有審查當時我也有通過了一些附帶的這個決議就是為其我國勞動的法規符合國際核心勞動基準還有能夠順利推動這個台美貿易協定\n\n02:01.733 --> 02:06.098\n所以當時請行政院3個月內邀請專家學者還有民間團體來進行研商盤點及檢討相關法規那因為勞動部是負責勞動法律主管機關所以行政院交給你們來負責找專家學者跟民間團體來溝通盤點相關法規那部長您記得這件事嗎\n\n02:22.115 --> 02:37.363\n那部長在3個月後就是11月25號那回覆了立法院對象附帶決議的辦理情形雖然當時我還不是立法委員不過我看到勞動部的回覆我實在感到相當的憂心因為立法院在7月通過的這個附帶決議要求你們召開相關會並做法規的一個盤點結果你們回覆說有開了三場\n\n02:44.187 --> 03:05.606\n十大核心勞動公約法規的檢視會議但是其中兩場是在之前在這個二月跟四月也就是說針對這個附帶決議你們三個月來做的就只有一件事只召開一次會議那我想了解勞動部是覺得本來的準備就已經很完整了很充足了只要再開這麼一次會議就可以來因應這個貿易談判\n\n03:07.908 --> 03:27.480\n還是說有點交差了事呢?因為他說請我們召開相關會議嘛那我想我們這個案這個事情就我們重視所以持續啦在行政決議之前我們就已經有開了當然當然決議之後開了一場那我們後續還會開今年4月下個月\n\n03:31.081 --> 03:54.811\n這個問題是在進行中所以我們是非常關心我們來看看這三次會議當中討論哪些議題就是在符合十大的這個核心勞動公約總共涵蓋五個面向我稍微念一下禁止強迫勞動禁止工作歧視禁止同工結社自由跟集體協商的權利還有職業安全衛生那麼根據勞動部提供的資料目前只完成了兩項\n\n03:56.473 --> 04:07.532\n部長您知道臺美倡議第二節我剛剛談到已經是現在進行式那我們貿易的代表都已經在談判桌上了那結果勞動部到現在只盤點了五分之二的這個議題\n\n04:09.676 --> 04:25.688\n部長我談的是盤點我都還沒提到實質修法的層次鄧正宗政委他去年10月有特別提到環境議題的部分他們覺得很順利那我就想請問部長勞動議題的部分我很擔心會不會因為勞動部的這個部分讓我們在貿易談判上會卡關不會\n\n04:31.152 --> 04:35.235\n委員我們一定會部長這麼有這個確定我們其實這件事情因為這種其實勞動議題還蠻複雜的那是我們的進度對我們的進度我跟委員說明你們這邊的禁止童工還有結社自由與集體享用這已經討論完畢了\n\n04:46.804 --> 04:58.978\n現在對那現在4月份就是要討論那個那個進度就讓我們再多了解一下部長我想請問您知道美國最在意我們哪一方面的勞動議題嗎\n\n05:01.681 --> 05:07.366\n我來跟部長報告美國最在意的是遠洋漁工的權益尤其是外籍漁工我們好不容易在2019年被歐盟解除這個黃牌結果在2020年跟2022年卻被美國勞動部發布的這個同工及強迫勞動製品清單把臺灣列在其中那我們產出的漁貨被美國勞動部市委跟泰國、印尼、中國、加拿大等國報告清楚的結果就是透過壓榨漁工\n\n05:31.165 --> 05:58.365\n強迫勞動所得來的血汗海鮮那報告裡清楚的提到說漁工面臨哪些的遭遇包括護照被沒收長時間無法跟外界聯繫22小時不間斷的連續工作工作生活環境惡劣招肢體暴力、苛扣工資等那這個清單是每年發布一次所以今年下半年因為會發布2024年的報告部長你覺得今年我們還會在那個清單上面嗎\n\n05:59.325 --> 06:22.816\n我跟您說明一下其實遠洋漁業的勞工的主要前者機關在漁業署那我們勞動部也有針對這個問題協助他們去落實這個有關於漁工人權的保障那其實我記得我們有我們就是希望不要再被放到這個名單裡面所以我們其實跟就是漁業署有針對這個\n\n06:27.966 --> 06:44.054\n這個他們所關心的東西我希望我們可以脫離這個名單他們有一些積極的作為其實美方也瞭解美方也瞭解我們其實也在做努力也有一些成果包括我們也跟我記得樂署也有跟TIVA這些關心的還有\n\n06:46.176 --> 07:01.270\n國務院美國國務院也對台灣遠洋漁工非常關心2023年美國國務院人口販運問題報告同樣提到我們外籍漁工都經過拖欠工資身體虐待、扣留食物、身分證這是強制分擔船舶的運營成本就是說他們認為船主是透過這些手段強迫他們勞動部長對於這些遠洋漁工的處境你會不會於心不忍\n\n07:10.658 --> 07:30.974\n當然我們不希望這種事情發生我跟委員報告這個是遠洋漁業的近海的通通是符合勞基法那遠洋漁業的但是他們都關心啦兩個部門欸國務院跟勞動部欸對我再跟委員說明說如果近海的漁工來講都沒有問題現在是遠洋漁業的部分那這個權責機關農業部的漁業署這邊也很積極在處理啦\n\n07:35.257 --> 08:01.328\n包括那個薪資我都記得我們去年要幫協助他們我希望不要成為我們談判協議的這個卡關等等我們都有勞動部也站在我們的專業立場協助他們還有一個美國非常關心的就是一般的外籍移工的權益其中一個問題就是仲介服務費長期研究勞動議題的這個林怡華博士有指出這個我也是看了這才知道臺灣竟然是唯一有法規民地移工收\n\n08:02.288 --> 08:16.023\n這個移工要付服務費給仲介的國家所以美國國務院在2022年的人權報告提到臺灣的仲介向外國工人收取高的招聘費就是服務費而且這移工在母國也被當地的仲介在還債這是一種債務強迫勞動\n\n08:18.365 --> 08:27.632\n所以美國國務院有清楚的建議是不是希望臺灣能夠取消消除向移工爭取任何費用因為目前每個月大概1500到1800三年大概6萬元但是對於這個因為經濟困難到臺灣來工作的移工其實是情何以干所以我想說部長是不是覺得有可能取消這個向移工收取服務費的這樣的一個態度的立場你的立場想法\n\n08:42.103 --> 08:54.913\n這個服務費在移工他不是強制的移工有需要服務他委託中心才需要付費但是這個服務你有很難去集合嗎他們人生地不熟大概這個我們都會做集合做訪視\n\n08:57.054 --> 09:11.928\n我們不准他亂收啦部長理解就好因為這個收費大概3年會總共6萬啦對顧主大概對仲介是九牛一毛這個就是移工他的自由意志啦這個在法律上沒有強制說他一定要付服務\n\n09:12.088 --> 09:18.292\n最後一個就是去年有個很紅的一段台劇《八尺門的辯護人》其中有一段故事就是描述一個員工被臺灣船長的虐待然後扣留護照引發災造成不可挽回的悲劇這是參考2010年發生的這個河村61號事件我是希望勞動部的官員能夠將心比心好好對待這些來臺灣服務的移工朋友因為大家都說臺灣最美的風景是人那我們是不是應該也給這些移工一個更友好更人道的一個勞動\n\n09:42.148 --> 09:46.441\n的條件,好嗎?謝偉,我們會努力,我們同您的觀點。謝謝部長,謝謝主席。\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.552,"end":6.913,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請許部長請許部長陳副委員好部長早安部長請問您知道我們去年6月跟這個美國完成臺美21世紀的這個貿易這個倡議第一階段的協商您瞭解我們已經完成了第一階段的協商那部長知道接下來的第二段協商的談判內容會涉及到跟勞動部直接相關的這個"},{"start":37.325,"end":52.515,"text":"在臺美第二階段的談判中勞動權益是非常重要的關鍵議題因為過去美國在跟其他的國家包括加拿大、墨西哥等等簽訂所謂的美加墨貿易協定的時候他會要求對方國家"},{"start":53.896,"end":72.507,"text":"法規要符合國際核心的勞動基礎例如2019年的時候美國眾議院的議長培洛西他要求墨西哥必須完全建立保障勞工的權益的一個立法而且他很清楚地表示除非墨西哥的新的法令到位確保墨西哥勞工有組織公會的權利否則眾議院不會去審議這個協定後來墨西哥國內訂了立法"},{"start":78.911,"end":87.433,"text":"然後強化勞工的權利最終美國也同意了簽署才通過這個貿易協定那我們回到今天的臺美21世紀的貿易倡議請問部長勞動部準備好了嗎報告委員我們現在其實都還在協商討論當中已經開過幾次會甚至我們的同仁也到美國去師長也有過去有跟他們當面面對面的做一些討論協商"},{"start":105.058,"end":110.963,"text":"我其實有點擔心因為去年6月完成第一段協定但7月24號的時候在立法院這邊有審查當時我也有通過了一些附帶的這個決議就是為其我國勞動的法規符合國際核心勞動基準還有能夠順利推動這個台美貿易協定"},{"start":121.733,"end":126.098,"text":"所以當時請行政院3個月內邀請專家學者還有民間團體來進行研商盤點及檢討相關法規那因為勞動部是負責勞動法律主管機關所以行政院交給你們來負責找專家學者跟民間團體來溝通盤點相關法規那部長您記得這件事嗎"},{"start":142.115,"end":157.363,"text":"那部長在3個月後就是11月25號那回覆了立法院對象附帶決議的辦理情形雖然當時我還不是立法委員不過我看到勞動部的回覆我實在感到相當的憂心因為立法院在7月通過的這個附帶決議要求你們召開相關會並做法規的一個盤點結果你們回覆說有開了三場"},{"start":164.187,"end":185.606,"text":"十大核心勞動公約法規的檢視會議但是其中兩場是在之前在這個二月跟四月也就是說針對這個附帶決議你們三個月來做的就只有一件事只召開一次會議那我想了解勞動部是覺得本來的準備就已經很完整了很充足了只要再開這麼一次會議就可以來因應這個貿易談判"},{"start":187.908,"end":207.48,"text":"還是說有點交差了事呢?因為他說請我們召開相關會議嘛那我想我們這個案這個事情就我們重視所以持續啦在行政決議之前我們就已經有開了當然當然決議之後開了一場那我們後續還會開今年4月下個月"},{"start":211.081,"end":234.811,"text":"這個問題是在進行中所以我們是非常關心我們來看看這三次會議當中討論哪些議題就是在符合十大的這個核心勞動公約總共涵蓋五個面向我稍微念一下禁止強迫勞動禁止工作歧視禁止同工結社自由跟集體協商的權利還有職業安全衛生那麼根據勞動部提供的資料目前只完成了兩項"},{"start":236.473,"end":247.532,"text":"部長您知道臺美倡議第二節我剛剛談到已經是現在進行式那我們貿易的代表都已經在談判桌上了那結果勞動部到現在只盤點了五分之二的這個議題"},{"start":249.676,"end":265.688,"text":"部長我談的是盤點我都還沒提到實質修法的層次鄧正宗政委他去年10月有特別提到環境議題的部分他們覺得很順利那我就想請問部長勞動議題的部分我很擔心會不會因為勞動部的這個部分讓我們在貿易談判上會卡關不會"},{"start":271.152,"end":275.235,"text":"委員我們一定會部長這麼有這個確定我們其實這件事情因為這種其實勞動議題還蠻複雜的那是我們的進度對我們的進度我跟委員說明你們這邊的禁止童工還有結社自由與集體享用這已經討論完畢了"},{"start":286.804,"end":298.978,"text":"現在對那現在4月份就是要討論那個那個進度就讓我們再多了解一下部長我想請問您知道美國最在意我們哪一方面的勞動議題嗎"},{"start":301.681,"end":307.366,"text":"我來跟部長報告美國最在意的是遠洋漁工的權益尤其是外籍漁工我們好不容易在2019年被歐盟解除這個黃牌結果在2020年跟2022年卻被美國勞動部發布的這個同工及強迫勞動製品清單把臺灣列在其中那我們產出的漁貨被美國勞動部市委跟泰國、印尼、中國、加拿大等國報告清楚的結果就是透過壓榨漁工"},{"start":331.165,"end":358.365,"text":"強迫勞動所得來的血汗海鮮那報告裡清楚的提到說漁工面臨哪些的遭遇包括護照被沒收長時間無法跟外界聯繫22小時不間斷的連續工作工作生活環境惡劣招肢體暴力、苛扣工資等那這個清單是每年發布一次所以今年下半年因為會發布2024年的報告部長你覺得今年我們還會在那個清單上面嗎"},{"start":359.325,"end":382.816,"text":"我跟您說明一下其實遠洋漁業的勞工的主要前者機關在漁業署那我們勞動部也有針對這個問題協助他們去落實這個有關於漁工人權的保障那其實我記得我們有我們就是希望不要再被放到這個名單裡面所以我們其實跟就是漁業署有針對這個"},{"start":387.966,"end":404.054,"text":"這個他們所關心的東西我希望我們可以脫離這個名單他們有一些積極的作為其實美方也瞭解美方也瞭解我們其實也在做努力也有一些成果包括我們也跟我記得樂署也有跟TIVA這些關心的還有"},{"start":406.176,"end":421.27,"text":"國務院美國國務院也對台灣遠洋漁工非常關心2023年美國國務院人口販運問題報告同樣提到我們外籍漁工都經過拖欠工資身體虐待、扣留食物、身分證這是強制分擔船舶的運營成本就是說他們認為船主是透過這些手段強迫他們勞動部長對於這些遠洋漁工的處境你會不會於心不忍"},{"start":430.658,"end":450.974,"text":"當然我們不希望這種事情發生我跟委員報告這個是遠洋漁業的近海的通通是符合勞基法那遠洋漁業的但是他們都關心啦兩個部門欸國務院跟勞動部欸對我再跟委員說明說如果近海的漁工來講都沒有問題現在是遠洋漁業的部分那這個權責機關農業部的漁業署這邊也很積極在處理啦"},{"start":455.257,"end":481.328,"text":"包括那個薪資我都記得我們去年要幫協助他們我希望不要成為我們談判協議的這個卡關等等我們都有勞動部也站在我們的專業立場協助他們還有一個美國非常關心的就是一般的外籍移工的權益其中一個問題就是仲介服務費長期研究勞動議題的這個林怡華博士有指出這個我也是看了這才知道臺灣竟然是唯一有法規民地移工收"},{"start":482.288,"end":496.023,"text":"這個移工要付服務費給仲介的國家所以美國國務院在2022年的人權報告提到臺灣的仲介向外國工人收取高的招聘費就是服務費而且這移工在母國也被當地的仲介在還債這是一種債務強迫勞動"},{"start":498.365,"end":507.632,"text":"所以美國國務院有清楚的建議是不是希望臺灣能夠取消消除向移工爭取任何費用因為目前每個月大概1500到1800三年大概6萬元但是對於這個因為經濟困難到臺灣來工作的移工其實是情何以干所以我想說部長是不是覺得有可能取消這個向移工收取服務費的這樣的一個態度的立場你的立場想法"},{"start":522.103,"end":534.913,"text":"這個服務費在移工他不是強制的移工有需要服務他委託中心才需要付費但是這個服務你有很難去集合嗎他們人生地不熟大概這個我們都會做集合做訪視"},{"start":537.054,"end":551.928,"text":"我們不准他亂收啦部長理解就好因為這個收費大概3年會總共6萬啦對顧主大概對仲介是九牛一毛這個就是移工他的自由意志啦這個在法律上沒有強制說他一定要付服務"},{"start":552.088,"end":558.292,"text":"最後一個就是去年有個很紅的一段台劇《八尺門的辯護人》其中有一段故事就是描述一個員工被臺灣船長的虐待然後扣留護照引發災造成不可挽回的悲劇這是參考2010年發生的這個河村61號事件我是希望勞動部的官員能夠將心比心好好對待這些來臺灣服務的移工朋友因為大家都說臺灣最美的風景是人那我們是不是應該也給這些移工一個更友好更人道的一個勞動"},{"start":582.148,"end":586.441,"text":"的條件,好嗎?謝偉,我們會努力,我們同您的觀點。謝謝部長,謝謝主席。"}]}}}}