{"id":150309,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150309","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005bee254c990a08ba3b0ea6c444258f7e78f8ba9b0039caa7a6ddd183cc71d874d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"09:33:05 - 09:42:17","影片長度":"00:09:12","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院主管：行政院國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金。(詢答)\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案等7案。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":552,"end_time":"2024-03-25T09:42:17+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T09:33:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":190,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（9時33分）多謝主席，請主委。"],["主席：請龔主委。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：張委員早安。"],["張委員啓楷：主委早安。主委，我們都常吃麵包，對不對？有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包嗎？你這輩子有沒有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：跟委員報告，現在的麵包我越來越少吃，因為它澱粉比較高，醣份會增加，所以……但是還是有啦。"],["張委員啓楷：主委你看一下，經濟部和台電針對小店家、特別是麵包店會不會漲價，他們說用電每個月700度以下的北部連鎖烘焙坊，在調整電價以後一天才增了2塊錢，有這個可能嗎？一些民眾抗議這是跟一般民眾活在平行空間嗎？不食人間煙火嗎？天方夜譚嗎？可是經濟部用這樣的計算標準，大家要問，是當初算錯了嗎？受害者會是誰？麵包店受影響，對不對？另外一個受害者是消費者，因為麵包可能就會漲，是不是要趕快補破網？一天2塊！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我看了經濟部的計算，它是說用比較少電的商家，主要是針對這個。"],["張委員啓楷：對，主委，後來它就承認了，台電都認了，它說電價這次調漲，如果有烘烤設備的麵包店，一個月是增加1萬951塊錢。","現在出現兩個問題：第一個，一般的麵包店如果一個月就增加了1萬951塊，羊毛出在羊身上，麵包就要漲了，對不對？第二，更離譜的事情是，經濟部跟台電怎麼可以講這些烘焙坊一天只增加2塊錢呢？你是像鴕鳥一樣，把頭埋在沙裡面，就認為沒有問題，還是惡意在導風向，讓人民誤解？所以我問你，有可能一個烘焙坊不要用到烤箱、用到烘烤嗎？麵包最簡單的定義是什麼？它就是一個經過烘烤的食品，以臺北連鎖的烘烤坊來講，如果是一個門市，它跟上游買麵包，它沒有中央廚房嗎？這個價格是不是都要往上走，對不對？這是不是要算進去？這不是誤導嗎？不是把頭埋在沙裡面嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，因為我們現在也在推動疫後振興條例及特別預算，有針對節能的部分，事實上經濟部也有講3月節能的部分有一些度數……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，我知道，節能那一塊你要多努力。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，所以它可以改善……"],["張委員啓楷：我現在跟你說的就是政府機關要跟人民活在一樣的空間裡面，不要被罵是天方夜譚、平行空間，怎麼可能一個烘焙坊一天只增加2塊錢？你後來也承認了，是1萬951，另外一個點很嚴重，你現在是拿來騙人民嗎？你沒有把上游算進去，烘焙坊如果是一個百貨公司的門市，向上游、中央廚房買，上游、中央廚房不會用到烘烤嗎？所以這個計算方式是錯誤的，對不對？既然是錯誤的，受害者會是麵包店、會是一般消費者，我們趕快補破網，好不好？你是行政院物價督導小組的成員，你要做一件事情，就是讓麵包店不要漲價，他們也是受害者，你們算錯了，要趕快去補破網，好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個問題，我請教你，你是台積電的獨立董事，對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，是法人代表，是國發基金的法人代表。"],["張委員啓楷：國發基金的法人代表？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對。"],["張委員啓楷：台積電這次也受到衝擊，一年要多花170億，你怎麼看這個事情？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：台積電未來的走向一定全部都買綠電，它已經announce在2040年全部都要用綠電，所以變成台電對台積電的影響還是有，但是會越來越小，因為它直接買綠電。"],["張委員啓楷：今天還有一家比較特別的，在竹科裡面有一家「力森諾科」，專門生產硬碟及半導體，現在廠房要賣了、要關廠了，是不是印證了整個電價衝擊了很多科技業？所以剛才說麵包店受影響，對不對？一般的小店家受影響，民生當然受影響更大，所以我一直在高聲疾呼民生用電及小商店的用電不要漲，可是你們還是漲了，現在連科技業都受影響了，怎麼補救？要怎麼補破網？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，剛剛講到小店家的部分，透過疫後特別條例及特別預算怎麼樣讓這些小店家能節能減碳、更好，而且有一些輔導措施……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，你趕快多努力……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["張委員啓楷：抱歉，我問一下國發基金的事情。我先肯定國發基金最近盈餘是不錯的，2021年盈餘了193億，2023年盈餘了288億，這方面是要肯定的，可是最近有些新興的投資是不是都一直在踩雷？剛剛兩位委員都提到這一點，裡面有一個很嚴重的……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：這個大部分都是2019年之前的事情。"],["張委員啓楷：對，我們來看三顧，好不好？三顧現在是嚴重到什麼程度？連日本的日商都說三顧把核心的技術都轉移到大陸去了，現在不是一直在講抗中保臺嗎？你現在不只沒有抗中保臺，還把臺灣人民的納稅錢洗到了中國大陸去。第二個，把人家日本的核心技術都洗到中國大陸去了，怎麼出現這種狀況呢？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：公司已經澄清了，沒有這樣的事情。公司已經做了澄清，沒有這樣的事情。"],["張委員啓楷：你幫三顧講話，可是他們……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我沒有幫他們講話，是他們澄清……"],["張委員啓楷：日本的日商公司跟他們合作，人家都跟他們解約了，而且人家抗議它的核心技術已經出去了，有沒有？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：他們還在協商跟仲裁當中。"],["張委員啓楷：他們協商，可是這是一個事實啊！第一個，你們的某些錢、臺灣人民的納稅錢因為國發基金去投資，這家公司把人民的納稅錢一方面洗到大陸去，這是錢的問題，對不對？第二個，技術的問題，是日商抗議啊！人家的核心技術啊！所以我強調的是不只沒有抗中保臺、沒有保臺灣，錢還出去了，連日本的核心技術都出去了！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，所以我們也要求我們董事跟所有公司治理的相關企業一定要守法，基本上，如果要把技術洗到中國是違法的，所以這是不能做的，而公司也做了澄清，他們不會做違法的事情。"],["張委員啓楷：你要繼續把這事情查清楚，好不好？因為日本都已經解約了嘛，對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是，我們一定會。"],["張委員啓楷：另外一個是如興，你投資如興那麼多錢，當初政策評估的發言紀錄的錄音不見了？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為以過去來講，政策審是沒有錄音的，從過去到現在。"],["張委員啓楷：也是沒有錄音？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對。"],["張委員啓楷：監察院都已經要糾正你們這一點了。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是，我們後續看要怎麼樣去針對這個問題來做一些補強。"],["張委員啓楷：如興的狀況也一樣嘛！臺灣人民的納稅錢有一部分洗到中國大陸去了嘛，對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：也沒有啦！那個是董事長個人自己的問題。"],["張委員啓楷：對啊！你去投資它，那他個人有問題，把人民納稅錢洗到中國大陸去啊！所以我剛剛說的兩個案都跟中國大陸有關係，一個還牽扯到日本的核心技術。另外，台灣奈微光不也是一樣的狀況嗎？技術跟資金也是都過去嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：奈微光……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，我先……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：那個已經澄清了。"],["張委員啓楷：OK，這樣好不好？我剛剛至少提了三個大的案子，都是跟中國大陸有關的，你們一直在強調你們要抗中保臺啊！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我們一定啊！"],["張委員啓楷：結果錢也是過去中國大陸，連日本的技術都過去了，這三個案子在一個月內把你的改善計畫送到本席辦公室，好不好？一個月好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好。"],["張委員啓楷：另外，本席也提了一些改善措施，你的組織架構要改革，第一個，要完整且公開你的投資政策評估會議，這也是監察院對你們的要求，馬上要做，好不好？第二個，要強化實地查訪，它的整個經營狀況你一定要掌握，好不好？第三個，不受到政府干預的第三方審查機制要趕快建立起來，可以嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：第三點絕對不會啦！"],["張委員啓楷：所以這三大項要趕快做。其次，剛剛講的三個出問題的案子，三大投資，請一個月內將改善計畫送到本席辦公室。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝主委、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員。","接下來請謝衣鳯委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-5","speakers":["邱議瑩","邱志偉","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:49,642\n可是經濟部用這樣的一個計算標準大家要問啊是當初去算不下去嗎?那受害者會是誰?麵包店受影響對不對?另外一個受害者是消費者啊麵包可能就會漲啊這要趕快補破啊?包圍一天兩口這個我看了經濟部的這個計算啊他是講說比較用比較少的這個店的這個商家啦主要是針對主委他不然他就省錢啦,他說怎麼樣?\n\n5\n00:01:51,578 --> 00:01:53,980\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n6\n00:02:15,401 --> 00:02:25,559\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度\n\n7\n00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:56,653\n導向、導風向讓人民誤解所以我問你啊有可能一個豐培房不要用到烤箱用到豐烤嗎?麵包的最簡單的定義是什麼?它就是一個經過豐烤的食品啊那如果這裡是台北這個連鎖豐烤培這個豐烤房它如果是一個門市跟上游買麵包它沒有中央廚房嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:58,575 --> 00:03:00,298\n這價格是不是都要往上走?對不對?這要不要算一下?\n\n9\n00:03:02,026 --> 00:03:03,927\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n\n10\n00:03:32,366 --> 00:03:41,669\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n\n11\n00:03:55,970 --> 00:04:17,785\n你是行政院的物價督導小組的成員你要做一件事情讓麵包店不要漲價他們也是受害者阿你們算錯了趕快去補貨阿第二個問題我請教你你是台積電的獨立董事對不對不是是法人代表國防基金的法人代表台積電這邊也受到衝擊阿台積電這邊你給170個出來你怎麼看這個事情\n\n12\n00:04:22,099 --> 00:04:46,404\n台積電它未來的走向它一定全部都買綠電它已經announce就是在2040年全部都要用綠電所以變成說這個台電對台積電的影響還是有但是會越來越小今天還有一家比較特別的在竹科裡面有一家叫利森諾科它做這些硬碟跟半導體今天都印證了廠房要關了廠房要賣了要關廠了這整個電價是不是衝擊了很多科技業\n\n13\n00:04:50,947 --> 00:04:52,689\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n14\n00:05:05,083 --> 00:05:07,364\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n15\n00:05:25,293 --> 00:05:33,778\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n16\n00:05:51,787 --> 00:05:54,109\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n17\n00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,982\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算\n\n18\n00:06:24,956 --> 00:06:29,181\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金、離島建設基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n19\n00:06:48,159 --> 00:06:58,825\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查\n\n20\n00:07:17,915 --> 00:07:22,719\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n21\n00:07:41,633 --> 00:07:45,074\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算\n\n22\n00:08:05,745 --> 00:08:08,728\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n23\n00:08:33,407 --> 00:08:39,193\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n\n24\n00:08:51,767 --> 00:08:55,331\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t609\t請張祺凱委員發言請公諸位\n30880\t53615\t張委員早安主委早安主委我們都常吃麵包對不對有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包嗎你這輩子有沒有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包我說跟委員報告現在麵包我越來越少吃了因為它澱粉比較高糖分會增加所以但是還是有啦所以你看經濟部叫台電\n54855\t59959\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n80523\t109642\t可是經濟部用這樣的一個計算標準大家要問啊是當初去算不下去嗎?那受害者會是誰?麵包店受影響對不對?另外一個受害者是消費者啊麵包可能就會漲啊這要趕快補破啊?包圍一天兩口這個我看了經濟部的這個計算啊他是講說比較用比較少的這個店的這個商家啦主要是針對主委他不然他就省錢啦,他說怎麼樣?\n111578\t113980\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n135401\t145559\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度\n150300\t176653\t導向、導風向讓人民誤解所以我問你啊有可能一個豐培房不要用到烤箱用到豐烤嗎?麵包的最簡單的定義是什麼?它就是一個經過豐烤的食品啊那如果這裡是台北這個連鎖豐烤培這個豐烤房它如果是一個門市跟上游買麵包它沒有中央廚房嗎?\n178575\t180298\t這價格是不是都要往上走?對不對?這要不要算一下?\n182026\t183927\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n212366\t221669\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n235970\t257785\t你是行政院的物價督導小組的成員你要做一件事情讓麵包店不要漲價他們也是受害者阿你們算錯了趕快去補貨阿第二個問題我請教你你是台積電的獨立董事對不對不是是法人代表國防基金的法人代表台積電這邊也受到衝擊阿台積電這邊你給170個出來你怎麼看這個事情\n262099\t286404\t台積電它未來的走向它一定全部都買綠電它已經announce就是在2040年全部都要用綠電所以變成說這個台電對台積電的影響還是有但是會越來越小今天還有一家比較特別的在竹科裡面有一家叫利森諾科它做這些硬碟跟半導體今天都印證了廠房要關了廠房要賣了要關廠了這整個電價是不是衝擊了很多科技業\n290947\t292689\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n305083\t307364\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n325293\t333778\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n351787\t354109\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n367279\t369982\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算\n384956\t389181\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金、離島建設基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n408159\t418825\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查\n437915\t442719\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n461633\t465074\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算\n485745\t488728\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n513407\t519193\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n531767\t535331\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n","txt":"請張祺凱委員發言請公諸位\n張委員早安主委早安主委我們都常吃麵包對不對有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包嗎你這輩子有沒有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包我說跟委員報告現在麵包我越來越少吃了因為它澱粉比較高糖分會增加所以但是還是有啦所以你看經濟部叫台電\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n可是經濟部用這樣的一個計算標準大家要問啊是當初去算不下去嗎?那受害者會是誰?麵包店受影響對不對?另外一個受害者是消費者啊麵包可能就會漲啊這要趕快補破啊?包圍一天兩口這個我看了經濟部的這個計算啊他是講說比較用比較少的這個店的這個商家啦主要是針對主委他不然他就省錢啦,他說怎麼樣?\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度\n導向、導風向讓人民誤解所以我問你啊有可能一個豐培房不要用到烤箱用到豐烤嗎?麵包的最簡單的定義是什麼?它就是一個經過豐烤的食品啊那如果這裡是台北這個連鎖豐烤培這個豐烤房它如果是一個門市跟上游買麵包它沒有中央廚房嗎?\n這價格是不是都要往上走?對不對?這要不要算一下?\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n你是行政院的物價督導小組的成員你要做一件事情讓麵包店不要漲價他們也是受害者阿你們算錯了趕快去補貨阿第二個問題我請教你你是台積電的獨立董事對不對不是是法人代表國防基金的法人代表台積電這邊也受到衝擊阿台積電這邊你給170個出來你怎麼看這個事情\n台積電它未來的走向它一定全部都買綠電它已經announce就是在2040年全部都要用綠電所以變成說這個台電對台積電的影響還是有但是會越來越小今天還有一家比較特別的在竹科裡面有一家叫利森諾科它做這些硬碟跟半導體今天都印證了廠房要關了廠房要賣了要關廠了這整個電價是不是衝擊了很多科技業\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金、離島建設基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.609\n請張祺凱委員發言請公諸位\n\n00:30.880 --> 00:53.615\n張委員早安主委早安主委我們都常吃麵包對不對有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包嗎你這輩子有沒有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包我說跟委員報告現在麵包我越來越少吃了因為它澱粉比較高糖分會增加所以但是還是有啦所以你看經濟部叫台電\n\n00:54.855 --> 00:59.959\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n01:20.523 --> 01:49.642\n可是經濟部用這樣的一個計算標準大家要問啊是當初去算不下去嗎?那受害者會是誰?麵包店受影響對不對?另外一個受害者是消費者啊麵包可能就會漲啊這要趕快補破啊?包圍一天兩口這個我看了經濟部的這個計算啊他是講說比較用比較少的這個店的這個商家啦主要是針對主委他不然他就省錢啦,他說怎麼樣?\n\n01:51.578 --> 01:53.980\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n02:15.401 --> 02:25.559\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度\n\n02:30.300 --> 02:56.653\n導向、導風向讓人民誤解所以我問你啊有可能一個豐培房不要用到烤箱用到豐烤嗎?麵包的最簡單的定義是什麼?它就是一個經過豐烤的食品啊那如果這裡是台北這個連鎖豐烤培這個豐烤房它如果是一個門市跟上游買麵包它沒有中央廚房嗎?\n\n02:58.575 --> 03:00.298\n這價格是不是都要往上走?對不對?這要不要算一下?\n\n03:02.026 --> 03:03.927\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n\n03:32.366 --> 03:41.669\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n\n03:55.970 --> 04:17.785\n你是行政院的物價督導小組的成員你要做一件事情讓麵包店不要漲價他們也是受害者阿你們算錯了趕快去補貨阿第二個問題我請教你你是台積電的獨立董事對不對不是是法人代表國防基金的法人代表台積電這邊也受到衝擊阿台積電這邊你給170個出來你怎麼看這個事情\n\n04:22.099 --> 04:46.404\n台積電它未來的走向它一定全部都買綠電它已經announce就是在2040年全部都要用綠電所以變成說這個台電對台積電的影響還是有但是會越來越小今天還有一家比較特別的在竹科裡面有一家叫利森諾科它做這些硬碟跟半導體今天都印證了廠房要關了廠房要賣了要關廠了這整個電價是不是衝擊了很多科技業\n\n04:50.947 --> 04:52.689\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n05:05.083 --> 05:07.364\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n05:25.293 --> 05:33.778\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n05:51.787 --> 05:54.109\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n06:07.279 --> 06:09.982\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算\n\n06:24.956 --> 06:29.181\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金、離島建設基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n06:48.159 --> 06:58.825\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查\n\n07:17.915 --> 07:22.719\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n07:41.633 --> 07:45.074\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算\n\n08:05.745 --> 08:08.728\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n08:33.407 --> 08:39.193\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算\n\n08:51.767 --> 08:55.331\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.609,"text":"請張祺凱委員發言請公諸位"},{"start":30.88,"end":53.615,"text":"張委員早安主委早安主委我們都常吃麵包對不對有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包嗎你這輩子有沒有吃過沒有經過烘焙的麵包我說跟委員報告現在麵包我越來越少吃了因為它澱粉比較高糖分會增加所以但是還是有啦所以你看經濟部叫台電"},{"start":54.855,"end":59.959,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案"},{"start":80.523,"end":109.642,"text":"可是經濟部用這樣的一個計算標準大家要問啊是當初去算不下去嗎?那受害者會是誰?麵包店受影響對不對?另外一個受害者是消費者啊麵包可能就會漲啊這要趕快補破啊?包圍一天兩口這個我看了經濟部的這個計算啊他是講說比較用比較少的這個店的這個商家啦主要是針對主委他不然他就省錢啦,他說怎麼樣?"},{"start":111.578,"end":113.98,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案"},{"start":135.401,"end":145.559,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度"},{"start":150.3,"end":176.653,"text":"導向、導風向讓人民誤解所以我問你啊有可能一個豐培房不要用到烤箱用到豐烤嗎?麵包的最簡單的定義是什麼?它就是一個經過豐烤的食品啊那如果這裡是台北這個連鎖豐烤培這個豐烤房它如果是一個門市跟上游買麵包它沒有中央廚房嗎?"},{"start":178.575,"end":180.298,"text":"這價格是不是都要往上走?對不對?這要不要算一下?"},{"start":182.026,"end":183.927,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算"},{"start":212.366,"end":221.669,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算"},{"start":235.97,"end":257.785,"text":"你是行政院的物價督導小組的成員你要做一件事情讓麵包店不要漲價他們也是受害者阿你們算錯了趕快去補貨阿第二個問題我請教你你是台積電的獨立董事對不對不是是法人代表國防基金的法人代表台積電這邊也受到衝擊阿台積電這邊你給170個出來你怎麼看這個事情"},{"start":262.099,"end":286.404,"text":"台積電它未來的走向它一定全部都買綠電它已經announce就是在2040年全部都要用綠電所以變成說這個台電對台積電的影響還是有但是會越來越小今天還有一家比較特別的在竹科裡面有一家叫利森諾科它做這些硬碟跟半導體今天都印證了廠房要關了廠房要賣了要關廠了這整個電價是不是衝擊了很多科技業"},{"start":290.947,"end":292.689,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案"},{"start":305.083,"end":307.364,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案"},{"start":325.293,"end":333.778,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案"},{"start":351.787,"end":354.109,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案"},{"start":367.279,"end":369.982,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算"},{"start":384.956,"end":389.181,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金、離島建設基金及所屬主管預算凍結案"},{"start":408.159,"end":418.825,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查"},{"start":437.915,"end":442.719,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案"},{"start":461.633,"end":465.074,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算"},{"start":485.745,"end":488.728,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案"},{"start":513.407,"end":519.193,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算"},{"start":531.767,"end":535.331,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展基金及所屬主管預算凍結案"}]}}}}