{"id":150324,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150324","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b9a5eee7a3fab6962cabe2e38d5d7efe9f8ba9b0039caa7a664a5fa53d23552a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"10:01:24 - 10:08:08","影片長度":"00:06:44","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：審查委員傅崐萁等33人擬具「花東快速公路建設特別條例草案」案。【詢答及處理】【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":404,"end_time":"2024-03-25T10:08:08+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T10:01:24+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":255,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（10時1分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：徐委員早。"],["徐委員富癸：部長早。除了花東建設很重要之外，南部的建設我們也非常的注意，我之前在總質詢，還有我們委員會的質詢中，一直都有聽到的訊息是我們依照所謂相關的程序來進行所謂交通建設的一個規劃，包含可行性評估、綜合規劃、環評，照這個程序走。請教部長，還有沒有捷徑可以走？"],["王部長國材：沒有，因為它當時的設計就是這樣，可行性跟綜合規劃就是談工程可不可行、效益有沒有；然後環評就是對環境的衝擊。所以我是覺得過去不管是完成或進行中的計畫，這個程序是走得很完整，而且全國皆然，每一個個案計畫都是這樣走。屏東的部分，比如說現在在走的延伸屏東或是未來延伸潮州，這個也是一段一段照這樣在走，包括地方的捷運也是一樣，沒有一個是有一個捷徑突然用一個特別條例就把它框住了，沒有這樣的！"],["徐委員富癸：對，所以我要請教部長，過去有任何的交通建設，是用這種法案的形式來推動嗎？"],["王部長國材：過去有的，第一個就是剛才談到的，在重大的災難，像新冠肺炎這個部分；另外一個，它是一個大的方向，比如說離島建設條例是把各個可以做的都放在裡面，還有包括花東特別條例，它是整個的，但是每一個細項也要做評估；除非是重大的，比如說過去對治水，如果發覺這個治水很嚴重，可能就會有這種狀況，但如果不到這麼緊急的狀況，好像沒有個案計畫是用一個特別條例來處理的。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，本席的想法是這樣子，其實重大交通建設是每個委員的壓力，然後每個選區的鄉親都希望有便捷的交通建設，但是程序上面，希望我們行政部門能夠依法加快速度。"],["王部長國材：我們應該要加速。"],["徐委員富癸：接著就是我們票價調整的部分，這也是我們全民關心的議題，請教部長，針對臺鐵、高鐵這些相關的調整，其實對於我們南部，尤其是我們屏東的鄉親來講，在我們重大交通建設還沒有到位之前，我們馬上就要承受所謂的票價調整，所以針對中長期票價有沒有什麼樣的一個補貼方案、規劃？"],["王部長國材：現在國道客運大概就用這種方式，就是短途的我們有TPASS，像屏東也有TPASS，它就cover掉了；然後中長程的部分，雖然它核定了基本費率，但是票價我們是用某一種補貼來處理，至於臺鐵跟高鐵，因為還沒有提出來，但也有可能我們用類似的方式來處理，像短途的部分，高鐵是沒有啦！但臺鐵短途的部分，TPASS也可以處理，然後還有中長途，所以怎麼樣找到一個方式讓這個票價不要變動太大，這個我們會來考慮。但是跟委員報告，臺鐵跟高鐵，我們現在回算中，因為他們剛剛才在討論費率等等的，而這個討論會在今年下半年才會進行，所以目前是不會的。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，是這樣子的，去年發生高鐵自由座之亂，如果我們的高鐵、臺鐵的票價，沒有一個整合型的平臺來做處理，後續就會發生所謂高鐵跟臺鐵自由座的票價，可能會有一些競爭的關係存在，後續也會造成自由座壅塞的一個狀況，針對下個禮拜的清明連假，包含整個交通運輸的狀況及處理，交通部有怎麼樣的一個規劃呢？"],["王部長國材：我們在連續假日都有它的機制，第一個，它的備用車廂會投入，這個事情他們也會處理；再來就是整個自由座的部分，過去比如說有部分的車廂會開放自由座的人進去等等的，這一部分高鐵有它的SOP，而高鐵公司大概也都已經瞭解相關的SOP，過去曾發生像臺中有一些亂象，他們現在也都瞭解了，整個都有改善了，最近這些連續假日已經沒有再發生那個狀況了，當然，還是要全力以赴，隨時注意狀況。"],["徐委員富癸：另外，因為屏東縣幅員廣闊，我們屏東縣的客運面臨路線虧損的問題，也必須要中央來支應。根據本席這邊的數據，我們110年、111年都虧損超過5,000萬以上，目前我們縣政府針對小黃公車有布線34條路線，然後輔佐一個幸福巴士，有44條路線，總共78條路線，對於我們偏鄉是一個很重要的交通協助，請教部長，但是這個費用對我們縣市政府來講是一個很沉重的負擔，中央有沒有可能來提高負擔的比例？"],["王部長國材：我請局長來跟委員說明。"],["陳局長文瑞：跟委員報告，偏鄉的部分，像屏東縣的小黃公車，我們現在已經在17個鄉鎮、32條路線，相關虧損的補貼，其實我們都有補助，幸福巴士也是一樣，基本上，只要屏東縣他們各鄉鎮的路線還在繼續運行，因為我們也在鼓勵他們持續開闢相關幸福巴士跟小黃公車的路線，所以這個補助的部分，我們基本上就是依照他們相關的營運成本，畢竟他們也有收一些基本的票價，收入之後扣掉的我們就會補助。"],["徐委員富癸：本席還是建議我們公路總局能夠來研議一下，畢竟對我們屏東來講，大型巴士進入到偏鄉是不方便的，此時小黃公車發揮一個很大的作用，請我們交通部研議一下，能不能增加一個補貼、增加一個路線的規劃？"],["王部長國材：好，我們研議一下。"],["徐委員富癸：好，本席的質詢到此結束，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐富癸委員。接下來有請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":472,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-5","speakers":["陳雪生","傅崐萁","李昆澤","廖先翔","黃健豪","游顥","徐富癸","林國成","魯明哲","蔡其昌","陳素月","何欣純","林俊憲","邱若華","許智傑","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:04,678\n謝謝主席。有請部長。請王部長。\n\n2\n00:00:10,712 --> 00:00:11,813\n徐富癸\n\n3\n00:00:40,692 --> 00:00:40,892\n徐富癸\n\n4\n00:01:00,162 --> 00:01:00,462\n徐富癸\n\n5\n00:01:19,276 --> 00:01:47,315\n對所以我要請教部長過去有任何的交通建設是用這樣子法案的形式來推動嗎過去有的第一個就是剛才談到的在重大的災難像那個這個新冠肺炎的這個部分另外一個是他是一個大的方向比如說離島建設條例他是一個各個可以做的都放在裡面一個就是對於還有包括花東的特別條例他是這個整個但是每一個細項也要做評估\n\n6\n00:02:03,675 --> 00:02:23,733\n市長,我的本席的想法是這樣子就是其實重大交通建設是每個委員的壓力每個選區的鄉親都希望有便捷的交通建設但是程序上面也是希望我們行政部門能夠加快依法加快速度我得加速,我們應該要加速\n\n7\n00:02:24,488 --> 00:02:49,268\n那針對我想接著我們的一個票價調整的部分也是我們全民關心的議題那請教部長針對台鐵高鐵這些相關的調整部分是對我們南部尤其是我們屏東的鄉親來講在我們重大交通建設還沒有到位之前我們馬上承受就是所謂的票價調整那這部分是不是針對中長期票價有沒有什麼樣的一個補貼的一個方案規劃\n\n8\n00:02:50,510 --> 00:03:09,750\n現在是國道科研大概就用這種方式,就是短途我們TPAS嘛,像屏東有TPAS,他就卡不掉了。然後這個中長城,雖然他核定了基本匯率,但是票價我們用某一種補貼來處理。那排鐵跟高鐵因為還沒提出來。\n\n9\n00:03:10,811 --> 00:03:39,305\n有可能我們用劣勢的方式來處理,因為短途,高鐵是沒有啦,像台鐵短途是這個TPAS也可以處理然後這個中長途我們到底怎麼樣讓這個票價能夠怎麼樣找到一個這個不要太這個變動太大,這個我們要來考慮但是根本包括台鐵跟高鐵我們現在回算,因為他們現在剛剛在討論送到怎麼會等等的齁,這個的討論會在這個今年下半年才會討論\n\n10\n00:03:40,505 --> 00:03:54,979\n現在目前不會部長我想是這樣子就是去年發生高鐵自由作制亂如果說我們的高鐵台鐵的票價沒有一個整合性的一個平台來做處理後續就會發生所謂的\n\n11\n00:03:56,901 --> 00:04:01,986\n稍後會造成一個自由座擁捨的一個狀況,那這部分針對下個禮拜的清明年假,我在想包含整個交通的一個運輸的狀況處理,交通部是不是有什麼樣的一個規劃?\n\n12\n00:04:59,313 --> 00:05:04,518\n另外我針對我們因為屏東縣這個復原廣化我們屏東縣的客運面臨這個路線虧損的問題也要必須要中央來支應那根據本期這邊的數據我們一年大概110年跟111年都虧損超過5000萬以上\n\n13\n00:05:17,208 --> 00:05:43,041\n那這個目前我們縣政府針對小黃公車的一個步線有34條路線然後輔佐我們一個幸福巴士44條路線總共78條路線對我們偏鄉是一個很重要的一個交通協助那請教部長但是這些負擔對我們縣市政府來講是很重的一個沉重的一個比例啦齁中央有沒有可能來提高我們的一個負擔的比例我請局長跟你回答是\n\n14\n00:05:43,962 --> 00:05:59,064\n跟委員報告就是偏鄉像屏東縣的這個小黃公車我們現在已經就是在17個鄉鎮那有32條路線那相關的就是說他的一個虧損的補貼其實我們都有補助那在幸福巴士也是一樣\n\n15\n00:05:59,525 --> 00:06:19,742\n那這邊的話只要就是說屏東縣他們就是在各鄉鎮就是還在因為我們也是鼓勵他們就是說持續開闢相關的幸福小黃幸福巴士跟小黃公車相關的路線那這個補助的部分我想我們基本上就是依照他們的這個有一個相關的營運的成本因為他們也有收一些基本的票價\n\n16\n00:06:20,442 --> 00:06:20,702\n徐富癸\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3670\t4678\t謝謝主席。有請部長。請王部長。\n10712\t11813\t徐富癸\n40692\t40892\t徐富癸\n60162\t60462\t徐富癸\n79276\t107315\t對 所以我要請教部長過去有任何的交通建設是用這樣子法案的形式來推動嗎過去有的第一個就是剛才談到的在重大的災難像那個這個新冠肺炎的這個部分另外一個是他是一個大的方向比如說離島建設條例他是一個各個可以做的都放在裡面一個就是對於還有包括花東的特別條例他是這個整個但是每一個細項也要做評估\n108456\t123575\t⋯⋯⋯\n123675\t143733\t市長,我的本席的想法是這樣子就是其實重大交通建設是每個委員的壓力每個選區的鄉親都希望有便捷的交通建設但是程序上面也是希望我們行政部門能夠加快依法加快速度我得加速,我們應該要加速\n144488\t169268\t那針對我想接著我們的一個票價調整的部分也是我們全民關心的議題那請教部長針對台鐵高鐵這些相關的調整部分是對我們南部尤其是我們屏東的鄉親來講在我們重大交通建設還沒有到位之前我們馬上承受就是所謂的票價調整那這部分是不是針對中長期票價有沒有什麼樣的一個補貼的一個方案規劃\n170510\t189750\t現在是國道科研大概就用這種方式,就是短途我們TPAS嘛,像屏東有TPAS,他就卡不掉了。然後這個中長城,雖然他核定了基本匯率,但是票價我們用某一種補貼來處理。那排鐵跟高鐵因為還沒提出來。\n190811\t219305\t有可能我們用劣勢的方式來處理,因為短途,高鐵是沒有啦,像台鐵短途是這個TPAS也可以處理然後這個中長途我們到底怎麼樣讓這個票價能夠怎麼樣找到一個這個不要太這個變動太大,這個我們要來考慮但是根本包括台鐵跟高鐵我們現在回算,因為他們現在剛剛在討論送到怎麼會等等的齁,這個的討論會在這個今年下半年才會討論\n220505\t234979\t現在目前不會部長我想是這樣子就是去年發生高鐵自由作制亂如果說我們的高鐵台鐵的票價沒有一個整合性的一個平台來做處理後續就會發生所謂的\n236901\t241986\t稍後會造成一個自由座擁捨的一個狀況,那這部分針對下個禮拜的清明年假,我在想包含整個交通的一個運輸的狀況處理,交通部是不是有什麼樣的一個規劃?\n257961\t273319\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n273319\t298097\t⋯⋯⋯⋯\n299313\t304518\t另外我針對我們因為屏東縣這個復原廣化我們屏東縣的客運面臨這個路線虧損的問題也要必須要中央來支應那根據本期這邊的數據我們一年大概110年跟111年都虧損超過5000萬以上\n317208\t343041\t那這個目前我們縣政府針對小黃公車的一個步線有34條路線然後輔佐我們一個幸福巴士44條路線總共78條路線對我們偏鄉是一個很重要的一個交通協助那請教部長但是這些負擔對我們縣市政府來講是很重的一個沉重的一個比例啦齁中央有沒有可能來提高我們的一個負擔的比例我請局長跟你回答是\n343962\t359064\t跟委員報告就是偏鄉像屏東縣的這個小黃公車我們現在已經就是在17個鄉鎮那有32條路線那相關的就是說他的一個虧損的補貼其實我們都有補助那在幸福巴士也是一樣\n359525\t379742\t那這邊的話只要就是說屏東縣他們就是在各鄉鎮就是還在因為我們也是鼓勵他們就是說持續開闢相關的幸福小黃幸福巴士跟小黃公車相關的路線那這個補助的部分我想我們基本上就是依照他們的這個有一個相關的營運的成本因為他們也有收一些基本的票價\n380442\t380702\t徐富癸\n","txt":"謝謝主席。有請部長。請王部長。\n徐富癸\n徐富癸\n徐富癸\n對 所以我要請教部長過去有任何的交通建設是用這樣子法案的形式來推動嗎過去有的第一個就是剛才談到的在重大的災難像那個這個新冠肺炎的這個部分另外一個是他是一個大的方向比如說離島建設條例他是一個各個可以做的都放在裡面一個就是對於還有包括花東的特別條例他是這個整個但是每一個細項也要做評估\n⋯⋯⋯\n市長,我的本席的想法是這樣子就是其實重大交通建設是每個委員的壓力每個選區的鄉親都希望有便捷的交通建設但是程序上面也是希望我們行政部門能夠加快依法加快速度我得加速,我們應該要加速\n那針對我想接著我們的一個票價調整的部分也是我們全民關心的議題那請教部長針對台鐵高鐵這些相關的調整部分是對我們南部尤其是我們屏東的鄉親來講在我們重大交通建設還沒有到位之前我們馬上承受就是所謂的票價調整那這部分是不是針對中長期票價有沒有什麼樣的一個補貼的一個方案規劃\n現在是國道科研大概就用這種方式,就是短途我們TPAS嘛,像屏東有TPAS,他就卡不掉了。然後這個中長城,雖然他核定了基本匯率,但是票價我們用某一種補貼來處理。那排鐵跟高鐵因為還沒提出來。\n有可能我們用劣勢的方式來處理,因為短途,高鐵是沒有啦,像台鐵短途是這個TPAS也可以處理然後這個中長途我們到底怎麼樣讓這個票價能夠怎麼樣找到一個這個不要太這個變動太大,這個我們要來考慮但是根本包括台鐵跟高鐵我們現在回算,因為他們現在剛剛在討論送到怎麼會等等的齁,這個的討論會在這個今年下半年才會討論\n現在目前不會部長我想是這樣子就是去年發生高鐵自由作制亂如果說我們的高鐵台鐵的票價沒有一個整合性的一個平台來做處理後續就會發生所謂的\n稍後會造成一個自由座擁捨的一個狀況,那這部分針對下個禮拜的清明年假,我在想包含整個交通的一個運輸的狀況處理,交通部是不是有什麼樣的一個規劃?\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n⋯⋯⋯⋯\n另外我針對我們因為屏東縣這個復原廣化我們屏東縣的客運面臨這個路線虧損的問題也要必須要中央來支應那根據本期這邊的數據我們一年大概110年跟111年都虧損超過5000萬以上\n那這個目前我們縣政府針對小黃公車的一個步線有34條路線然後輔佐我們一個幸福巴士44條路線總共78條路線對我們偏鄉是一個很重要的一個交通協助那請教部長但是這些負擔對我們縣市政府來講是很重的一個沉重的一個比例啦齁中央有沒有可能來提高我們的一個負擔的比例我請局長跟你回答是\n跟委員報告就是偏鄉像屏東縣的這個小黃公車我們現在已經就是在17個鄉鎮那有32條路線那相關的就是說他的一個虧損的補貼其實我們都有補助那在幸福巴士也是一樣\n那這邊的話只要就是說屏東縣他們就是在各鄉鎮就是還在因為我們也是鼓勵他們就是說持續開闢相關的幸福小黃幸福巴士跟小黃公車相關的路線那這個補助的部分我想我們基本上就是依照他們的這個有一個相關的營運的成本因為他們也有收一些基本的票價\n徐富癸\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.670 --> 00:04.678\n謝謝主席。有請部長。請王部長。\n\n00:10.712 --> 00:11.813\n徐富癸\n\n00:40.692 --> 00:40.892\n徐富癸\n\n01:00.162 --> 01:00.462\n徐富癸\n\n01:19.276 --> 01:47.315\n對所以我要請教部長過去有任何的交通建設是用這樣子法案的形式來推動嗎過去有的第一個就是剛才談到的在重大的災難像那個這個新冠肺炎的這個部分另外一個是他是一個大的方向比如說離島建設條例他是一個各個可以做的都放在裡面一個就是對於還有包括花東的特別條例他是這個整個但是每一個細項也要做評估\n\n02:03.675 --> 02:23.733\n市長,我的本席的想法是這樣子就是其實重大交通建設是每個委員的壓力每個選區的鄉親都希望有便捷的交通建設但是程序上面也是希望我們行政部門能夠加快依法加快速度我得加速,我們應該要加速\n\n02:24.488 --> 02:49.268\n那針對我想接著我們的一個票價調整的部分也是我們全民關心的議題那請教部長針對台鐵高鐵這些相關的調整部分是對我們南部尤其是我們屏東的鄉親來講在我們重大交通建設還沒有到位之前我們馬上承受就是所謂的票價調整那這部分是不是針對中長期票價有沒有什麼樣的一個補貼的一個方案規劃\n\n02:50.510 --> 03:09.750\n現在是國道科研大概就用這種方式,就是短途我們TPAS嘛,像屏東有TPAS,他就卡不掉了。然後這個中長城,雖然他核定了基本匯率,但是票價我們用某一種補貼來處理。那排鐵跟高鐵因為還沒提出來。\n\n03:10.811 --> 03:39.305\n有可能我們用劣勢的方式來處理,因為短途,高鐵是沒有啦,像台鐵短途是這個TPAS也可以處理然後這個中長途我們到底怎麼樣讓這個票價能夠怎麼樣找到一個這個不要太這個變動太大,這個我們要來考慮但是根本包括台鐵跟高鐵我們現在回算,因為他們現在剛剛在討論送到怎麼會等等的齁,這個的討論會在這個今年下半年才會討論\n\n03:40.505 --> 03:54.979\n現在目前不會部長我想是這樣子就是去年發生高鐵自由作制亂如果說我們的高鐵台鐵的票價沒有一個整合性的一個平台來做處理後續就會發生所謂的\n\n03:56.901 --> 04:01.986\n稍後會造成一個自由座擁捨的一個狀況,那這部分針對下個禮拜的清明年假,我在想包含整個交通的一個運輸的狀況處理,交通部是不是有什麼樣的一個規劃?\n\n04:59.313 --> 05:04.518\n另外我針對我們因為屏東縣這個復原廣化我們屏東縣的客運面臨這個路線虧損的問題也要必須要中央來支應那根據本期這邊的數據我們一年大概110年跟111年都虧損超過5000萬以上\n\n05:17.208 --> 05:43.041\n那這個目前我們縣政府針對小黃公車的一個步線有34條路線然後輔佐我們一個幸福巴士44條路線總共78條路線對我們偏鄉是一個很重要的一個交通協助那請教部長但是這些負擔對我們縣市政府來講是很重的一個沉重的一個比例啦齁中央有沒有可能來提高我們的一個負擔的比例我請局長跟你回答是\n\n05:43.962 --> 05:59.064\n跟委員報告就是偏鄉像屏東縣的這個小黃公車我們現在已經就是在17個鄉鎮那有32條路線那相關的就是說他的一個虧損的補貼其實我們都有補助那在幸福巴士也是一樣\n\n05:59.525 --> 06:19.742\n那這邊的話只要就是說屏東縣他們就是在各鄉鎮就是還在因為我們也是鼓勵他們就是說持續開闢相關的幸福小黃幸福巴士跟小黃公車相關的路線那這個補助的部分我想我們基本上就是依照他們的這個有一個相關的營運的成本因為他們也有收一些基本的票價\n\n06:20.442 --> 06:20.702\n徐富癸\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.67,"end":4.678,"text":"謝謝主席。有請部長。請王部長。"},{"start":10.712,"end":11.813,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":40.692,"end":40.892,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":60.162,"end":60.462,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":79.276,"end":107.315,"text":"對 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