{"id":150327,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150327","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b7e2dd9eff81b49e1e5559e54a1be29d3f8ba9b0039caa7a6539f966d37fd65f05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"09:56:50 - 10:10:39","影片長度":"00:13:49","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案(含報告事項20案及討論事項1案)。\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-8"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":829,"end_time":"2024-03-25T10:10:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T09:56:50+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":444,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（9時57分）主席好。有請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：廖委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，職安署跟前年成立的職災預防及重建中心的業務有沒有重疊之處？"],["許部長銘春：不一樣。"],["廖委員偉翔：不一樣？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，職災預防及重建中心打算在高雄設立職業健康及重建之家，新聞報導說最快113年，請問部長，現在這個計畫的進度到哪裡？何時會完成？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們本來原先是大概這個月要開始做一些裝修，結果發現那個承租的房子是歷史建築，因為歷史建築在裝修的程序上比較麻煩，所以我們現在這部分先暫停，另外再另覓新址，也有先找到兩個點。"],["廖委員偉翔：請問一下，設置重建之家最主要想要達成什麼樣的目的？您可不可以簡單具體講一下？"],["許部長銘春：我們希望就是在我們的勞工重建部分能夠給予更專業的協助，即工作的重建，就是說他重返職場工作的重建，希望給予他更多的資源協助。"],["廖委員偉翔：所謂更多的資源協助，目前已經有36家職能復健的專責醫院，20家強化訓練機構，還有22個縣市政府的職災個案管理、專業服務人員，還有管理服務資訊系統，也有連結勞發署的職業訓練、就業服務、職業輔導評量的系統，所以勞工如果有需要可以直接透過這個系統轉介跟追蹤，現有的機制，醫院、訓練機構都有，連之後的職業訓練、就業輔導系統都有系統連結。請問哪裡不足？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個部分，因為高雄是屬於勞工比較多的地方，建立這個重建之家主要是針對在工作的重建，希望有一個專責的單位直接來協助，剛剛所講的那個……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你剛剛說到高雄，你在高雄做這個重建之家，不過我看勞動部的資料，36家專責醫院中，高雄的專責醫院就有5家，也是各縣市之冠，訓練機構也有1家，所以資源並不缺，請問設立重建之家的主責是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這些專責醫院或者網絡醫院，主要是在醫療的復健，是就他身體的健康……"],["廖委員偉翔：這個訓練機構也有1家，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：然後我們這個部分是比較針對專業，針對他工作上如何重建，讓他能夠回復他的工作職能。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我請問你，這個評估有沒有評估的依據或標準？然後你預計要花多少錢、服務多少人數？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，當然，我們重建中心這邊有經過討論，有專業的一些評估，不過，你剛剛問的那些數據，我是不是會後再提供給您？"],["廖委員偉翔：好，我只是覺得很好奇，為何不善用現行指定的專責機構？如果資源不足，就多邀請一些醫院跟機構來評鑑，多增加一些指定醫院、機構，讓這些醫院跟機構都可以就近服務，不是更好？你特別再成立這個東西，對我們來講，它就是一個疊床架屋，因為你講都講不清楚，它到底跟現有的機制有什麼很不一樣的地方，或是你可以補足哪些現有不足的地方？所以現有機制如果都可以處理，為什麼要浪費公帑去蓋一個蚊子館，甚至你也講不出來到底要花多少錢、要服務多少人。"],["許部長銘春：沒有蓋啦，就是先承租，然後去把這個重建之家針對職災勞工在工作上重建所需要的一些協助，由這個重建之家來提供。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我懂，但是你講的都很像空話，就是沒有很具體的回答到底跟現有機制相比，你可以補足哪些地方……"],["許部長銘春：委員，我們再做一些分析給你，因為這個也都滿專業的，我應該讓專業的人來提供專業的說明給委員。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，請會後提供相關的報告說明，給我分析好嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，勞動部所屬的勞研所，會發出工安警訊，而且還配置專門的官網頁面，把最新的因應時節變化之下，最有可能的種種各類工安風險來對外發布。請問部長，如果企業、工廠和這些事業單位有注意到我們勞動部中央所發布的工安警訊，是否就能夠降低職災的發生機率？"],["許部長銘春：這就是我們的提醒，讓這些單位……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以我說如果他們有注意到，然後也有去看，也有去接收這樣訊息，是不是能夠降低，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，我們希望達到這樣的目的。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以部長也認為發布工安警訊也是為了降低發生的機率，對吧？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，那請教部長，我們的工安警訊除了放在所屬的官網上，還有沒有其他的宣傳或宣傳管道呢？"],["許部長銘春：我請業務單位說明。"],["李所長柏昌：謝謝委員指導，我們大概一般就是在官網以外，像我們跟職安署配合，或是跟縣政府的一些配合，我們在宣導會的時候都會提供相關的資訊給他們作為腳本。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你們會請縣市政府幫忙宣傳？"],["李所長柏昌：對、會，宣導會都會，他們會來跟我們要資料。"],["廖委員偉翔：OK！好。所以我可以確定，除了事業單位之外，地方政府的勞動局處或是勞檢單位會依照你們工安警訊去幫忙宣傳，對嗎？應該也要幫忙宣傳，對不對？"],["李所長柏昌：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，有沒有甚至要針對中央所預警的產業，去加強勞檢的頻率或是增加勞檢的內容呢？"],["鄒署長子廉：委員好，我是職安署署長，有關這個水蒸汽爆炸預防的部分，國內外都當作是蠻重要的爆炸預防機制，這次這個個案，看起來它已經營運了很多年，而那天早上的製程發生的狀況，直接是液態鋁液接觸到水，理論上這個製程應該是固態鋁錠之後，才能做水的 cooling down，所以就這個個案的瞭解和調查，就爆炸預防的部分……"],["廖委員偉翔：不好意思，請直接回答我……"],["鄒署長子廉：會加強。"],["廖委員偉翔：會嗎？"],["鄒署長子廉：是、是。"],["廖委員偉翔：有針對這個預警的產業會加強勞檢的頻率，對不對？"],["鄒署長子廉：是。"],["許部長銘春：是、會。"],["廖委員偉翔：本席看到我們的勞動及職業安全衛生研究所在2022年10月有發布一個預防熔融高熱物相關作業與水接觸引起水蒸汽爆炸的工安警訊，它也提醒了大家，這樣子的熔融高熱物相關作業中的熔融鋁等，它的作業環境附近常常會出現非預期的積水或是金屬碎片中含有水分，如果操作不慎或機械故障，以致熔融高熱物與水接觸，則水就會快速的加熱汽化，體積會急速膨脹1,700倍，引起物理性的水蒸汽爆炸，而且威力很大，會引發大範圍的火災！我想請問部長，這則工安警訊有沒有給各個地方政府？"],["李所長柏昌：這個工安警訊是為了因應國外有一些相類似的案件……"],["廖委員偉翔：你只要回答我有沒有給，因為你剛剛是說有，對不對？剛剛你前面的回答是你們這些工安警訊都有跟各個地方政府、縣市政府講，對不對？按照你們講的，地方政府也有義務要宣導，或者依據這份警訊去修改產業的勞檢項目，請教部長，高雄有沒有修改勞檢項目？工安警訊發布後，高雄市的勞工局有沒有去宣導，以及高雄市政府這兩年有沒有針對鋁這個產業勞檢，有嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我們可能要進一步瞭解高雄市政府的部分。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我跟你講，從一個地方就可以看出你們根本沒有盡到督導責任，而且高雄市政府的勞工局也是螺絲掉滿地，勞動部勞研所並非隨便亂發工安警訊，所以我想你也不會否認你下屬單位的用心研究，但是你知道高雄市政府連最基本的轉知、宣導責任都沒有落實嗎？部長，你看，事實上，高雄市政府為了應付中央，為了讓中央知道高雄市有在做所謂表面上的工安警訊分工宣導，不過只是開了專門頁面之後，實際上卻已經從2022年開始就停擺至今，有沒有盡到宣導，有沒有盡到監督的職責？你們是沒有的，甚至過去高雄市政府也沒有如實地把勞動部職安所的工安警訊帶到地方發布。請問部長，高雄市政府是不是在這次佳豐鋁業2死6傷的悲劇中，確實有該宣導而未宣導的行政責任？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個部分我可能要進一步再瞭解，因為它的這個網頁雖然沒有顯示出來，但實質上有沒有去做宣導，這恐怕都還……"],["廖委員偉翔：但是工安警訊應該是對全國服務的地方，對不對？如果連這個地方都沒有做到，是不是也是一個問題呢？"],["許部長銘春：所以這個要去瞭解一下，因為平常這些工安的座談或講習……"],["廖委員偉翔：現在要去瞭解就代表你平常沒有盡到督導之責，因為高雄市放水，難道你們勞動部也要佛系把關嗎？這麼重大的工安職災，中央跟地方都沒有人負責嗎？從星期五發生到現在，我想請問……"],["許部長銘春：不是這樣子的，因為各地方政府都會去做宣導，像這個個案……"],["廖委員偉翔：你既然都做了工安警訊，結果這個地方又不放，到底是做開心的嗎？"],["許部長銘春：不是，我們的工安警訊……"],["廖委員偉翔：勞動部是不是應該要專案督導一下高雄市政府呢？你以前也當過高雄市政府副市長，請問你在高雄市任職期間，高雄市政府的職業安全措施有這麼鬆散嗎？"],["許部長銘春：不會啦！報告委員，其實勞動部檢查機關跟地方政府之間都有監督檢查的機制。"],["廖委員偉翔：沒有，我想要提醒你，這個東西就是公開資訊，大家隨時上網都可以看得到的東西。"],["許部長銘春：我的意思是……"],["廖委員偉翔：這樣重大的職災，如果都沒有人要下臺負責，難道勞動部和高雄市政府也是今天公祭、明天忘記嗎？我想要提醒你的是這個，因為明明就已經有做得這麼好的工安警訊，結果居然還發生這種悲劇，我真的很替這2死6傷感到很難過。","最後一個問題，部長，最近央行升息，勞動部有開辦多項的政策性貸款，例如微型創業鳳凰貸款、就業保險失業者創業貸款、失業中高齡者及高齡者創業貸款，這些政策性貸款都是採計中華郵政股份有限公司兩年期定期儲金機動利率計算，這也代表會受到這次升息的影響。行政院副院長在3月22日召開跨部會會議，決議由政府全額補貼相關的升息利息，但是我發現剛剛這三項有關於勞工的政策性貸款都沒有納入裡面，所以你們是不是要向行政院爭取因應升息衝擊的利息補貼，或是由勞動部內部另外辦理因應升息衝擊的還款展延，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：勞工紓困貸款主要是針對疫情期間受影響的勞工，因為那時候受到的影響最大，所以所有的升息已經升了5次，其實我們就補貼了4次，就是針對因為受疫情影響特別艱困的，其他的這些貸款的影響很低，我們都有充分評估過，因為其實平常就有補貼他們，所以升息對他們的影響是比較小的。"],["廖委員偉翔：本席請你回去再次討論一下，因為他們都是比較弱勢的勞工，如果影響不大，那是不是也納入這一次的補貼的方案裡面呢？"],["許部長銘春：像委員剛剛講的鳳凰創業，像這樣的升息辦法，他一年才增加896元而已。"],["廖委員偉翔：因為行政院副院長也是跨部會召開會議說希望由政府全額補貼。"],["許部長銘春：其實我們在討論的時候都有先評估過。"],["主席：我打岔一下，是不是請部長會後再向委員說明溝通，是不是提供資料給廖委員？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝主席、謝謝部長。"],["主席：請蘇委員清泉發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-8","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","王育敏","盧縣一","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","黃國昌","賴士葆","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","徐巧芯","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-25"],"gazette_id":"1131901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實\n職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動\n部主管預算凍結案21案（含報告事項20案及討論事項1案）","agenda_id":"1131901_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150327","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150327","tool":"pyannote","id":"150327-pyannote"},"job_id":"IomOuHXUyzx5A0eO","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"text\": \"部長,勞動部所屬的勞研所就是會發出公安警訊而且還配置了專門的官網頁面把最新的因應時節變化之下最有可能的種種各類的公安風險來對外發布請問部長,如果企業、工廠和這些事業單位如果有注意到我們勞動部所發布中央的公安警訊是否就能夠降低職災的發生機率\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 284.193, \"end\": 284.834, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 284.834, \"end\": 284.994, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 284.994, \"end\": 285.374, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 285.374, \"end\": 286.114, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 286.114, \"end\": 286.375, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 286.375, \"end\": 287.535, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 287.535, \"end\": 287.695, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 287.695, \"end\": 288.236, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 288.236, \"end\": 288.476, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 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\"你\", \"start\": 359.829, \"end\": 360.389, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 360.389, \"end\": 360.729, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 360.729, \"end\": 360.869, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 360.869, \"end\": 360.989, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 360.989, \"end\": 361.229, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"忙\", \"start\": 361.229, \"end\": 361.39, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 361.39, \"end\": 361.59, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 361.59, \"end\": 362.07, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 362.07, \"end\": 362.33, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 362.33, \"end\": 362.61, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, 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486.606, \"end\": 512.743, \"text\": \"這個公安警訊是因為因應那個國外有一些相類似的案例沒有你就回答我有沒有給嘛因為你剛剛是說有嘛對不對剛剛你前面的回答是說你們這些公安警訊是有各個地方政府縣市政府都有講嘛對不對所以地方政府剛剛照你們的講也有義務要宣導或者依據這份警訊去修改這個產業的勞檢項目請教部長高雄有沒有去修改勞檢項目公安警訊發布後高雄市的勞工局有沒有去宣導\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 486.606, \"end\": 486.706, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 486.706, \"end\": 486.846, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"警\", \"start\": 486.846, \"end\": 487.126, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 487.126, \"end\": 487.226, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 487.226, \"end\": 487.507, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 487.507, \"end\": 487.927, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 487.927, \"end\": 488.407, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 488.407, \"end\": 488.567, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 488.567, \"end\": 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0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 705.445, \"end\": 705.605, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"創\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 705.605, \"end\": 705.825, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 705.825, \"end\": 705.846, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 706.986, \"end\": 734.074, \"text\": \"那這些政策性的貸款也都有採寄到中華郵政股份有限公司兩年期的這個定期儲金機動利率的計算這也代表著會受到這次升息的影響然後我們的行政院副院長在3月22號有召開跨部會議決議由政府權而補貼這個相關的升息的利息但是我發現剛剛這三項有關於勞工的政策性貸款都沒有納入裡面\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 706.986, \"end\": 707.266, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 707.266, \"end\": 707.446, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 707.446, \"end\": 707.646, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 707.646, \"end\": 707.806, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 707.806, \"end\": 707.946, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 707.946, \"end\": 708.186, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 708.186, \"end\": 708.346, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 708.346, \"end\": 708.466, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 708.466, \"end\": 708.707, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 708.707, \"end\": 708.927, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"寄\", \"start\": 708.927, \"end\": 709.087, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 709.087, \"end\": 709.787, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 709.787, \"end\": 710.347, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"郵\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 710.347, \"end\": 710.547, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"股\", \"start\": 710.547, \"end\": 710.667, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 710.667, \"end\": 710.787, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 710.787, \"end\": 710.907, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 710.907, \"end\": 711.047, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 711.047, \"end\": 711.227, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 711.227, \"end\": 711.587, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 711.587, \"end\": 711.787, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 711.787, \"end\": 711.947, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 711.947, \"end\": 713.548, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 713.548, \"end\": 713.768, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 713.768, \"end\": 714.448, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"儲\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 714.448, \"end\": 714.828, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 714.828, \"end\": 714.968, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 714.968, \"end\": 715.228, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 715.228, \"end\": 715.388, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 715.388, \"end\": 716.069, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 716.069, \"end\": 716.369, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 716.369, \"end\": 716.549, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 716.549, \"end\": 716.749, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 716.749, \"end\": 717.389, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 717.389, \"end\": 717.529, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 717.529, \"end\": 717.869, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 717.869, \"end\": 718.029, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 718.029, \"end\": 718.249, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 718.249, \"end\": 718.369, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 718.369, \"end\": 718.469, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 718.469, \"end\": 719.41, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 719.41, \"end\": 719.53, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 719.53, \"end\": 719.71, 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\"end\": 732.393, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 732.393, \"end\": 732.713, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 732.713, \"end\": 732.994, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 732.994, \"end\": 733.114, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 733.114, \"end\": 733.214, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 733.214, \"end\": 733.754, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 733.754, \"end\": 734.054, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 734.054, \"end\": 734.074, \"score\": 0.681}]}, {\"start\": 735.714, \"end\": 745.873, \"text\": \"所以我在想你們是不是要跟行政院爭取因應升息衝擊的利息補貼或者是勞動部內部另外辦理因應升息衝擊的還款展言可以嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 735.714, \"end\": 735.834, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 735.834, \"end\": 735.914, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 735.914, \"end\": 736.055, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 739.1, \"end\": 739.301, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 739.301, \"end\": 739.722, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"衝\"}, {\"word\": \"擊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 739.722, \"end\": 739.822, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 739.822, \"end\": 740.002, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 740.002, \"end\": 740.844, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 740.844, \"end\": 740.984, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 740.984, \"end\": 741.104, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 741.104, \"end\": 741.645, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 741.645, \"end\": 741.906, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 741.906, \"end\": 742.066, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 742.066, \"end\": 742.206, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 742.206, \"end\": 742.587, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 742.587, \"end\": 742.807, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 742.807, \"end\": 743.228, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 743.228, \"end\": 743.469, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 743.469, \"end\": 743.95, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"衝\"}, {\"word\": \"擊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 743.95, \"end\": 744.33, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 744.33, \"end\": 744.631, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 744.631, \"end\": 744.831, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 744.831, \"end\": 745.753, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 745.753, \"end\": 745.853, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 745.853, \"end\": 745.873, \"score\": 0.489}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 748.52, \"end\": 775.342, \"text\": \"這個部分其實因為這個勞工紓困貸款主要是那時候針對疫情期間受影響的勞工因為那時候影響最大所以在所有的升息裡面已經升了五次了已經五次其實我們就補貼了四次就是針對那個因為疫情受影響特別他應該特別艱困那其他的其實這些貸款他們是影響很低這個都有充分評估過\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 748.52, \"end\": 748.68, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 748.68, \"end\": 749.101, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 749.101, \"end\": 749.641, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 749.641, \"end\": 750.682, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 750.682, \"end\": 751.062, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"紓\"}, {\"word\": \"困\", \"start\": 751.062, \"end\": 751.463, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 751.463, \"end\": 751.663, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 751.663, \"end\": 751.803, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 751.803, \"end\": 751.963, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", 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{\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 812.317, \"end\": 812.357, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 812.357, \"end\": 812.457, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 812.457, \"end\": 812.617, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 812.617, \"end\": 812.738, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 812.738, \"end\": 813.238, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 813.238, \"end\": 813.378, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 813.378, \"end\": 813.478, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 813.478, \"end\": 813.558, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 813.558, \"end\": 813.698, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 813.698, \"end\": 813.758, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 813.758, \"end\": 813.919, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": 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--> 00:00:25,484\n主席好,有請我們許部長。請許部長。六人好。許部長你好。部長,那個職安署啊,跟前年成立的職災預防及重建中心的業務有沒有重疊之處?\n\n2\n00:00:27,691 --> 00:00:53,843\n不一樣。不一樣?對。好。那職災預防及重建中心打算在高雄設立職業健康及重建之家新聞報導說最快113年請問部長現在這個計畫的進度到哪裡?何時會完成?報告委員我們本來原先是大概這個月要開始做一個裝修結果發現那個陳柱的房子是歷史建築\n\n3\n00:00:55,491 --> 00:01:18,985\n所以現在因為歷史建築它在裝修的程序上比較麻煩所以我們現在這個先暫停另外在另覓新址也有先找到兩個點那請問一下這個設置我們重建之家最主要想要達成什麼樣的目的您可不可以簡單的講我們希望就是在這個我們的勞工重建的這個部分能夠給予更專業\n\n4\n00:01:20,546 --> 00:01:26,710\n所謂更多的資源協助目前已經有36家職能復健的專責醫院20家強化訓練機構還有22個縣市政府的職災個案管理專業服務人員還有管理服務資訊系統也有連結勞發署的職業訓練\n\n5\n00:01:47,705 --> 00:01:48,186\n因為這個部分我們是希望有\n\n6\n00:02:11,069 --> 00:02:29,520\n高雄是屬於勞工比較多的地方像建立這個重建之家它主要是針對在工作的重建希望是一個專責的直接專責的單位來直接來協助那剛剛所講的那個部長那你剛剛說到在高雄\n\n7\n00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:47,518\n但是你跟高雄看這個用這個重建之家不過我看勞動部的資料36家專責醫院中高雄的專責醫院就有5家也是各縣市之冠訓練機構也有一家所以資源並不稀缺喔並不缺所以設立這個重建之家主軸是什麼\n\n8\n00:02:48,018 --> 00:03:13,966\n那個我們比較這些專責醫院或者這個網絡醫院主要是在醫療的復健醫療的復健就在他的工作他的身體的這個健康復健然後我們這個部分是比較就是針對專業針對他工作工作上如何重建讓他能夠回復他的工作職能我請問你這個評估有沒有評估的依據或標準\n\n9\n00:03:15,233 --> 00:03:31,111\n然後你預計要花多少錢?服務多少人數?報告委我們這個有當然有我們重建中心這邊有經過討論有專業的一些評估不過你剛問的那些數據我在是不是會後再提供給您\n\n10\n00:03:31,618 --> 00:03:45,937\n好我只是覺得很好奇為何不善用現行指定的專責機構如果資源不足就邀請多一些醫院跟機構來評鑑多增加一些指定醫院機構讓這些醫院跟機構都可以就近服務不是更好\n\n11\n00:03:46,598 --> 00:04:09,826\n那你特別在成立這個東西對我們來講它就是一個疊床架屋因為你講的都講不清楚說它到底跟現有的機制有什麼很不一樣的地方或是你可以補足哪些現有不足的地方所以現有機制如果都可以處理為什麼要浪費公帑去蓋一個文資館甚至是你也講不出來到底你要花多少錢要服務多少人沒有蓋啦就是說先成豬然後\n\n12\n00:04:11,583 --> 00:04:35,269\n去把這個重建之家針對職災勞工在工作上重建所需要的一些協助我們在這個重建之家來提供部長我懂但是你講的都很像空話就是沒有很具體的回答說到底跟現有機制你可以補足哪些地方委員我們再做一些分析給你啦因為這個有些都蠻專業的\n\n13\n00:04:36,109 --> 00:04:42,021\n好,請會後可不可以提供相關的報告說明給本席,好嗎?\n\n14\n00:04:44,193 --> 00:05:09,890\n部長,勞動部所屬的勞研所就是會發出公安警訊而且還配置了專門的官網頁面把最新的因應時節變化之下最有可能的種種各類的公安風險來對外發布請問部長,如果企業、工廠和這些事業單位如果有注意到我們勞動部所發布中央的公安警訊是否就能夠降低職災的發生機率\n\n15\n00:05:12,446 --> 00:05:16,649\n公安警訊除了放在所屬的官網上,還有其他的宣傳或宣傳管道呢?\n\n16\n00:05:44,964 --> 00:06:03,270\n憲委員知道我們大概一般就是在官網以外對不對那我們像跟治安署的配合或是說像縣政府的一些配合我們在宣導會的時候對不對都會提供這些相關的資訊給他們作為那個腳本這樣所以你們會請那個縣市政府幫忙宣傳對對會宣導會都會他們會來跟我們要資料OK\n\n17\n00:06:05,964 --> 00:06:31,532\n好那這個所以也就是說我可以確定就是說除了事業單位之外地方政府的勞動局處或是勞檢單位會依照你們的這個公安的警訊然後他也會要求去幫忙宣傳對嗎也應該也要幫忙宣傳對不對對對好那甚至針對那有沒有甚至要針對中央所預警的產業去加強勞檢的頻率或是增加勞檢的內容呢\n\n18\n00:06:35,121 --> 00:06:58,190\n我是專屬署長有關這個水蒸氣爆炸預防的部分是國內外都當作是個蠻重要的爆炸預防的一個機制那這個這次這個個案看起來已經營業很多年那天早上的製程發生狀況產生直接是液態的鋁液接觸到水裏面這製程是固態的鋁定之後才能做水的那個coolingdown\n\n19\n00:06:58,490 --> 00:07:01,292\n本席看到我們的勞動及職業安全衛生所研究所在2022年的10月有發布一個\n\n20\n00:07:20,067 --> 00:07:35,175\n預防熔融高熱物相關作業與水接觸引起水蒸氣爆炸的公安警訊那他還提醒了大家這樣子的熔融高熱物相關作業中的熔融鋁等他的作業環境常常附近會\n\n21\n00:07:36,115 --> 00:08:02,627\n常常會出現非預期的積水或是金屬碎片中含有水分如果操作不順或機械故障以致熔融高熱物與水接觸則水就會快速的加熱氣化體積會急速的膨脹約1700倍引起物理性的水蒸氣爆炸而且它威力很大會引發更大範圍的火災喔那麼我想要請問部長這則公安警訊有沒有給各個地方政府\n\n22\n00:08:06,606 --> 00:08:32,743\n這個公安警訊是因為因應那個國外有一些相類似的案例沒有你就回答我有沒有給嘛因為你剛剛是說有嘛對不對剛剛你前面的回答是說你們這些公安警訊是有各個地方政府縣市政府都有講嘛對不對所以地方政府剛剛照你們的講也有義務要宣導或者依據這份警訊去修改這個產業的勞檢項目請教部長高雄有沒有去修改勞檢項目公安警訊發布後高雄市的勞工局有沒有去宣導\n\n23\n00:08:33,973 --> 00:08:52,423\n以及高雄市政府這兩年有沒有針對鋁這個產業去勞檢?有嗎?這個我們可能要進一步了解高雄市政府的部分好部長我跟你講一個地方就看到你們根本沒有盡到督導責任而且我們的高雄市政府的這個勞動局也是螺絲吊滿地\n\n24\n00:08:54,076 --> 00:09:18,116\n你們勞動部勞研所並非隨便亂發公安警訊所以我想你也不會否認你下屬單位的用心研究但是你知道高雄市政府連最基本的轉資宣導責任都沒有落實嗎部長你看喔事實上高雄市政府為了應付中央為了讓中央知道高雄市有在做所謂的表面上的公安警訊分工宣導不過只是開了專門頁面之後實際上卻已經從2022年開始都停擺至今了\n\n25\n00:09:23,664 --> 00:09:44,029\n有沒有進到監督的職責?你們是沒有的。甚至在過去,高雄市政府也沒有如實的把勞動部職安所的公安警訊帶到地方來發布。請問部長,高雄市政府因此是不是要在這次加封旅業二死六傷的悲劇中,確實就是有該宣導而未宣導的行政責任?\n\n26\n00:09:45,129 --> 00:10:04,210\n報告委員這個部分我可能要進一步再瞭解因為他這個網頁雖然沒有顯示出來但是他實質上有沒有去做宣導這恐怕都還做講習但是他的公安警訊應該就是一個對全國公布的地方嘛對不對那如果連這個地方都沒有做到是不是也是一個\n\n27\n00:10:05,151 --> 00:10:21,289\n問題呢?報告委員所以這個要了解一下因為平常這種公安的這些座檔或長刑就代表你平常沒有盡到督導之責囉因為高雄市放水難道你們勞動部也要佛系把關嗎?這麼重大的公安職災中央跟地方都沒有人負責嗎?\n\n28\n00:10:23,778 --> 00:10:27,741\n從星期五發生到現在,我想請問,勞動部是不是應該要專案督導一下我們高雄市政府呢?你以前也當過高雄市政府的副市長\n\n29\n00:10:45,509 --> 00:11:05,247\n請問高雄市你在任職期間高雄市政府的職業安全措施有這麼鬆散嗎?不會啦因為報告委員我們其實勞動部我們這個檢查機關跟地方政府之間都有監督檢查的基礎沒有我想要提醒你這個東西就是公開資訊大家隨時上網都可以看得到的東西但是我的意思是說你\n\n30\n00:11:06,468 --> 00:11:25,138\n這樣重大的職災如果都沒有人要下台負責難道勞動部跟高雄市政府今天也是要今天公祭明天旺祭嗎?我想要提醒你的是這個因為明明就已經做了這麼好的公安警訓結果居然還發生這種悲劇我覺得我真的很替這二死六傷感到很難過\n\n31\n00:11:28,317 --> 00:11:45,846\n最後一個部長我只是想要儘速的在幫我們的這個最近我們的央行升息喔勞動部有開辦多項的政策性貸款例如我們的微型創業鳳凰貸款還有我們就業保險失業者創業貸款和失業中高齡者及高齡者的創業貸款喔\n\n32\n00:11:46,986 --> 00:12:14,074\n那這些政策性的貸款也都有採寄到中華郵政股份有限公司兩年期的這個定期儲金機動利率的計算這也代表著會受到這次升息的影響然後我們的行政院副院長在3月22號有召開跨部會議決議由政府權而補貼這個相關的升息的利息但是我發現剛剛這三項有關於勞工的政策性貸款都沒有納入裡面\n\n33\n00:12:15,714 --> 00:12:25,873\n所以我在想你們是不是要跟行政院爭取因應升息衝擊的利息補貼或者是勞動部內部另外辦理因應升息衝擊的還款展言可以嗎?\n\n34\n00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:55,342\n這個部分其實因為這個勞工紓困貸款主要是那時候針對疫情期間受影響的勞工因為那時候影響最大所以在所有的升息裡面已經升了五次了已經五次其實我們就補貼了四次就是針對那個因為疫情受影響特別他應該特別艱困那其他的其實這些貸款他們是影響很低這個都有充分評估過\n\n35\n00:12:56,564 --> 00:13:02,760\n因為這些補貼其實平常就有補貼他們所以對他們這個升息的影響是比較小的\n\n36\n00:13:03,649 --> 00:13:26,211\n好那我可以請本席再請您回去再重再一次討論一下因為他們都是比較弱勢的勞工是不是可以如果你說影響不大那是不是給納入這一次的補貼的方案裡面呢對這個向委員那個像那個剛剛您講的那個鳳鴻創業齁他一年喔一年才像這樣的升息辦法他增加869塊而已一年才增加\n\n37\n00:13:27,933 --> 00:13:35,040\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11178\t25484\t主席好,有請我們許部長。請許部長。六人好。許部長你好。部長,那個職安署啊,跟前年成立的職災預防及重建中心的業務有沒有重疊之處?\n27691\t53843\t不一樣。不一樣?對。好。那職災預防及重建中心打算在高雄設立職業健康及重建之家新聞報導說最快113年請問部長現在這個計畫的進度到哪裡?何時會完成?報告委員我們本來原先是大概這個月要開始做一個裝修結果發現那個陳柱的房子是歷史建築\n55491\t78985\t所以現在因為歷史建築它在裝修的程序上比較麻煩所以我們現在這個先暫停另外在另覓新址也有先找到兩個點那請問一下這個設置我們重建之家最主要想要達成什麼樣的目的您可不可以簡單的講我們希望就是在這個我們的勞工重建的這個部分能夠給予更專業\n80546\t86710\t所謂更多的資源協助目前已經有36家職能復健的專責醫院20家強化訓練機構還有22個縣市政府的職災個案管理專業服務人員還有管理服務資訊系統也有連結勞發署的職業訓練\n107705\t108186\t因為這個部分我們是希望有\n131069\t149520\t高雄是屬於勞工比較多的地方像建立這個重建之家它主要是針對在工作的重建希望是一個專責的直接專責的單位來直接來協助那剛剛所講的那個部長那你剛剛說到在高雄\n150200\t167518\t但是你跟高雄看這個用這個重建之家不過我看勞動部的資料36家專責醫院中高雄的專責醫院就有5家也是各縣市之冠訓練機構也有一家所以資源並不稀缺喔並不缺所以設立這個重建之家主軸是什麼\n168018\t193966\t那個我們比較這些專責醫院或者這個網絡醫院主要是在醫療的復健醫療的復健就在他的工作他的身體的這個健康復健然後我們這個部分是比較就是針對專業針對他工作工作上如何重建讓他能夠回復他的工作職能我請問你這個評估有沒有評估的依據或標準\n195233\t211111\t然後你預計要花多少錢?服務多少人數?報告委我們這個有當然有我們重建中心這邊有經過討論有專業的一些評估不過你剛問的那些數據我在是不是會後再提供給您\n211618\t225937\t好我只是覺得很好奇為何不善用現行指定的專責機構如果資源不足就邀請多一些醫院跟機構來評鑑多增加一些指定醫院機構讓這些醫院跟機構都可以就近服務不是更好\n226598\t249826\t那你特別在成立這個東西對我們來講它就是一個疊床架屋因為你講的都講不清楚說它到底跟現有的機制有什麼很不一樣的地方或是你可以補足哪些現有不足的地方所以現有機制如果都可以處理為什麼要浪費公帑去蓋一個文資館甚至是你也講不出來到底你要花多少錢要服務多少人沒有蓋啦就是說先成豬然後\n251583\t275269\t去把這個重建之家針對職災勞工在工作上重建所需要的一些協助我們在這個重建之家來提供部長我懂但是你講的都很像空話就是沒有很具體的回答說到底跟現有機制你可以補足哪些地方委員我們再做一些分析給你啦因為這個有些都蠻專業的\n276109\t282021\t好,請會後可不可以提供相關的報告說明給本席,好嗎?\n284193\t309890\t部長,勞動部所屬的勞研所就是會發出公安警訊而且還配置了專門的官網頁面把最新的因應時節變化之下最有可能的種種各類的公安風險來對外發布請問部長,如果企業、工廠和這些事業單位如果有注意到我們勞動部所發布中央的公安警訊是否就能夠降低職災的發生機率\n312446\t316649\t公安警訊除了放在所屬的官網上,還有其他的宣傳或宣傳管道呢?\n344964\t363270\t憲委員知道我們大概一般就是在官網以外對不對那我們像跟治安署的配合或是說像縣政府的一些配合我們在宣導會的時候對不對都會提供這些相關的資訊給他們作為那個腳本這樣所以你們會請那個縣市政府幫忙宣傳對對會宣導會都會他們會來跟我們要資料OK\n365964\t391532\t好那這個所以也就是說我可以確定就是說除了事業單位之外地方政府的勞動局處或是勞檢單位會依照你們的這個公安的警訊然後他也會要求去幫忙宣傳對嗎也應該也要幫忙宣傳對不對對對好那甚至針對那有沒有甚至要針對中央所預警的產業去加強勞檢的頻率或是增加勞檢的內容呢\n395121\t418190\t我是專屬署長有關這個水蒸氣爆炸預防的部分是國內外都當作是個蠻重要的爆炸預防的一個機制那這個這次這個個案看起來已經營業很多年那天早上的製程發生狀況產生直接是液態的鋁液接觸到水裏面這製程是固態的鋁定之後才能做水的那個cooling down\n418490\t421292\t本席看到我們的勞動及職業安全衛生所研究所在2022年的10月有發布一個\n440067\t455175\t預防熔融高熱物相關作業與水接觸引起水蒸氣爆炸的公安警訊那他還提醒了大家這樣子的熔融高熱物相關作業中的熔融鋁等他的作業環境常常附近會\n456115\t482627\t常常會出現非預期的積水或是金屬碎片中含有水分如果操作不順或機械故障以致熔融高熱物與水接觸則水就會快速的加熱氣化體積會急速的膨脹約1700倍引起物理性的水蒸氣爆炸而且它威力很大會引發更大範圍的火災喔那麼我想要請問部長這則公安警訊有沒有給各個地方政府\n486606\t512743\t這個公安警訊是因為因應那個國外有一些相類似的案例沒有你就回答我有沒有給嘛因為你剛剛是說有嘛對不對剛剛你前面的回答是說你們這些公安警訊是有各個地方政府縣市政府都有講嘛對不對所以地方政府剛剛照你們的講也有義務要宣導或者依據這份警訊去修改這個產業的勞檢項目請教部長高雄有沒有去修改勞檢項目公安警訊發布後高雄市的勞工局有沒有去宣導\n513973\t532423\t以及高雄市政府這兩年有沒有針對鋁這個產業去勞檢?有嗎?這個我們可能要進一步了解高雄市政府的部分好部長我跟你講一個地方就看到你們根本沒有盡到督導責任而且我們的高雄市政府的這個勞動局也是螺絲吊滿地\n534076\t558116\t你們勞動部勞研所並非隨便亂發公安警訊所以我想你也不會否認你下屬單位的用心研究但是你知道高雄市政府連最基本的轉資宣導責任都沒有落實嗎部長你看喔事實上高雄市政府為了應付中央為了讓中央知道高雄市有在做所謂的表面上的公安警訊分工宣導不過只是開了專門頁面之後實際上卻已經從2022年開始都停擺至今了\n563664\t584029\t有沒有進到監督的職責?你們是沒有的。甚至在過去,高雄市政府也沒有如實的把勞動部職安所的公安警訊帶到地方來發布。請問部長,高雄市政府因此是不是要在這次加封旅業二死六傷的悲劇中,確實就是有該宣導而未宣導的行政責任?\n585129\t604210\t報告委員 這個部分我可能要進一步再瞭解因為他這個網頁雖然沒有顯示出來但是他實質上有沒有去做宣導這恐怕都還做講習但是他的公安警訊應該就是一個對全國公布的地方嘛 對不對那如果連這個地方都沒有做到是不是也是一個\n605151\t621289\t問題呢?報告委員所以這個要了解一下因為平常這種公安的這些座檔或長刑就代表你平常沒有盡到督導之責囉因為高雄市放水難道你們勞動部也要佛系把關嗎?這麼重大的公安職災中央跟地方都沒有人負責嗎?\n623778\t627741\t從星期五發生到現在,我想請問,勞動部是不是應該要專案督導一下我們高雄市政府呢?你以前也當過高雄市政府的副市長\n645509\t665247\t請問高雄市你在任職期間高雄市政府的職業安全措施有這麼鬆散嗎?不會啦因為報告委員我們其實勞動部我們這個檢查機關跟地方政府之間都有監督檢查的基礎沒有我想要提醒你這個東西就是公開資訊大家隨時上網都可以看得到的東西但是我的意思是說你\n666468\t685138\t這樣重大的職災如果都沒有人要下台負責難道勞動部跟高雄市政府今天也是要今天公祭明天旺祭嗎?我想要提醒你的是這個因為明明就已經做了這麼好的公安警訓結果居然還發生這種悲劇我覺得我真的很替這二死六傷感到很難過\n688317\t705846\t最後一個部長我只是想要儘速的在幫我們的這個最近我們的央行升息喔勞動部有開辦多項的政策性貸款例如我們的微型創業鳳凰貸款還有我們就業保險失業者創業貸款和失業中高齡者及高齡者的創業貸款喔\n706986\t734074\t那這些政策性的貸款也都有採寄到中華郵政股份有限公司兩年期的這個定期儲金機動利率的計算這也代表著會受到這次升息的影響然後我們的行政院副院長在3月22號有召開跨部會議決議由政府權而補貼這個相關的升息的利息但是我發現剛剛這三項有關於勞工的政策性貸款都沒有納入裡面\n735714\t745873\t所以我在想你們是不是要跟行政院爭取因應升息衝擊的利息補貼或者是勞動部內部另外辦理因應升息衝擊的還款展言可以嗎?\n748520\t775342\t這個部分其實因為這個勞工紓困貸款主要是那時候針對疫情期間受影響的勞工因為那時候影響最大所以在所有的升息裡面已經升了五次了已經五次其實我們就補貼了四次就是針對那個因為疫情受影響特別他應該特別艱困那其他的其實這些貸款他們是影響很低這個都有充分評估過\n776564\t782760\t因為這些補貼其實平常就有補貼他們所以對他們這個升息的影響是比較小的\n783649\t806211\t好那我可以請本席再請您回去再重再一次討論一下因為他們都是比較弱勢的勞工是不是可以如果你說影響不大那是不是給納入這一次的補貼的方案裡面呢對這個向委員那個像那個剛剛您講的那個鳳鴻創業齁他一年喔一年才像這樣的升息辦法他增加869塊而已一年才增加\n807933\t815040\t二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論\n","txt":"主席好,有請我們許部長。請許部長。六人好。許部長你好。部長,那個職安署啊,跟前年成立的職災預防及重建中心的業務有沒有重疊之處?\n不一樣。不一樣?對。好。那職災預防及重建中心打算在高雄設立職業健康及重建之家新聞報導說最快113年請問部長現在這個計畫的進度到哪裡?何時會完成?報告委員我們本來原先是大概這個月要開始做一個裝修結果發現那個陳柱的房子是歷史建築\n所以現在因為歷史建築它在裝修的程序上比較麻煩所以我們現在這個先暫停另外在另覓新址也有先找到兩個點那請問一下這個設置我們重建之家最主要想要達成什麼樣的目的您可不可以簡單的講我們希望就是在這個我們的勞工重建的這個部分能夠給予更專業\n所謂更多的資源協助目前已經有36家職能復健的專責醫院20家強化訓練機構還有22個縣市政府的職災個案管理專業服務人員還有管理服務資訊系統也有連結勞發署的職業訓練\n因為這個部分我們是希望有\n高雄是屬於勞工比較多的地方像建立這個重建之家它主要是針對在工作的重建希望是一個專責的直接專責的單位來直接來協助那剛剛所講的那個部長那你剛剛說到在高雄\n但是你跟高雄看這個用這個重建之家不過我看勞動部的資料36家專責醫院中高雄的專責醫院就有5家也是各縣市之冠訓練機構也有一家所以資源並不稀缺喔並不缺所以設立這個重建之家主軸是什麼\n那個我們比較這些專責醫院或者這個網絡醫院主要是在醫療的復健醫療的復健就在他的工作他的身體的這個健康復健然後我們這個部分是比較就是針對專業針對他工作工作上如何重建讓他能夠回復他的工作職能我請問你這個評估有沒有評估的依據或標準\n然後你預計要花多少錢?服務多少人數?報告委我們這個有當然有我們重建中心這邊有經過討論有專業的一些評估不過你剛問的那些數據我在是不是會後再提供給您\n好我只是覺得很好奇為何不善用現行指定的專責機構如果資源不足就邀請多一些醫院跟機構來評鑑多增加一些指定醫院機構讓這些醫院跟機構都可以就近服務不是更好\n那你特別在成立這個東西對我們來講它就是一個疊床架屋因為你講的都講不清楚說它到底跟現有的機制有什麼很不一樣的地方或是你可以補足哪些現有不足的地方所以現有機制如果都可以處理為什麼要浪費公帑去蓋一個文資館甚至是你也講不出來到底你要花多少錢要服務多少人沒有蓋啦就是說先成豬然後\n去把這個重建之家針對職災勞工在工作上重建所需要的一些協助我們在這個重建之家來提供部長我懂但是你講的都很像空話就是沒有很具體的回答說到底跟現有機制你可以補足哪些地方委員我們再做一些分析給你啦因為這個有些都蠻專業的\n好,請會後可不可以提供相關的報告說明給本席,好嗎?\n部長,勞動部所屬的勞研所就是會發出公安警訊而且還配置了專門的官網頁面把最新的因應時節變化之下最有可能的種種各類的公安風險來對外發布請問部長,如果企業、工廠和這些事業單位如果有注意到我們勞動部所發布中央的公安警訊是否就能夠降低職災的發生機率\n公安警訊除了放在所屬的官網上,還有其他的宣傳或宣傳管道呢?\n憲委員知道我們大概一般就是在官網以外對不對那我們像跟治安署的配合或是說像縣政府的一些配合我們在宣導會的時候對不對都會提供這些相關的資訊給他們作為那個腳本這樣所以你們會請那個縣市政府幫忙宣傳對對會宣導會都會他們會來跟我們要資料OK\n好那這個所以也就是說我可以確定就是說除了事業單位之外地方政府的勞動局處或是勞檢單位會依照你們的這個公安的警訊然後他也會要求去幫忙宣傳對嗎也應該也要幫忙宣傳對不對對對好那甚至針對那有沒有甚至要針對中央所預警的產業去加強勞檢的頻率或是增加勞檢的內容呢\n我是專屬署長有關這個水蒸氣爆炸預防的部分是國內外都當作是個蠻重要的爆炸預防的一個機制那這個這次這個個案看起來已經營業很多年那天早上的製程發生狀況產生直接是液態的鋁液接觸到水裏面這製程是固態的鋁定之後才能做水的那個cooling down\n本席看到我們的勞動及職業安全衛生所研究所在2022年的10月有發布一個\n預防熔融高熱物相關作業與水接觸引起水蒸氣爆炸的公安警訊那他還提醒了大家這樣子的熔融高熱物相關作業中的熔融鋁等他的作業環境常常附近會\n常常會出現非預期的積水或是金屬碎片中含有水分如果操作不順或機械故障以致熔融高熱物與水接觸則水就會快速的加熱氣化體積會急速的膨脹約1700倍引起物理性的水蒸氣爆炸而且它威力很大會引發更大範圍的火災喔那麼我想要請問部長這則公安警訊有沒有給各個地方政府\n這個公安警訊是因為因應那個國外有一些相類似的案例沒有你就回答我有沒有給嘛因為你剛剛是說有嘛對不對剛剛你前面的回答是說你們這些公安警訊是有各個地方政府縣市政府都有講嘛對不對所以地方政府剛剛照你們的講也有義務要宣導或者依據這份警訊去修改這個產業的勞檢項目請教部長高雄有沒有去修改勞檢項目公安警訊發布後高雄市的勞工局有沒有去宣導\n以及高雄市政府這兩年有沒有針對鋁這個產業去勞檢?有嗎?這個我們可能要進一步了解高雄市政府的部分好部長我跟你講一個地方就看到你們根本沒有盡到督導責任而且我們的高雄市政府的這個勞動局也是螺絲吊滿地\n你們勞動部勞研所並非隨便亂發公安警訊所以我想你也不會否認你下屬單位的用心研究但是你知道高雄市政府連最基本的轉資宣導責任都沒有落實嗎部長你看喔事實上高雄市政府為了應付中央為了讓中央知道高雄市有在做所謂的表面上的公安警訊分工宣導不過只是開了專門頁面之後實際上卻已經從2022年開始都停擺至今了\n有沒有進到監督的職責?你們是沒有的。甚至在過去,高雄市政府也沒有如實的把勞動部職安所的公安警訊帶到地方來發布。請問部長,高雄市政府因此是不是要在這次加封旅業二死六傷的悲劇中,確實就是有該宣導而未宣導的行政責任?\n報告委員 這個部分我可能要進一步再瞭解因為他這個網頁雖然沒有顯示出來但是他實質上有沒有去做宣導這恐怕都還做講習但是他的公安警訊應該就是一個對全國公布的地方嘛 對不對那如果連這個地方都沒有做到是不是也是一個\n問題呢?報告委員所以這個要了解一下因為平常這種公安的這些座檔或長刑就代表你平常沒有盡到督導之責囉因為高雄市放水難道你們勞動部也要佛系把關嗎?這麼重大的公安職災中央跟地方都沒有人負責嗎?\n從星期五發生到現在,我想請問,勞動部是不是應該要專案督導一下我們高雄市政府呢?你以前也當過高雄市政府的副市長\n請問高雄市你在任職期間高雄市政府的職業安全措施有這麼鬆散嗎?不會啦因為報告委員我們其實勞動部我們這個檢查機關跟地方政府之間都有監督檢查的基礎沒有我想要提醒你這個東西就是公開資訊大家隨時上網都可以看得到的東西但是我的意思是說你\n這樣重大的職災如果都沒有人要下台負責難道勞動部跟高雄市政府今天也是要今天公祭明天旺祭嗎?我想要提醒你的是這個因為明明就已經做了這麼好的公安警訓結果居然還發生這種悲劇我覺得我真的很替這二死六傷感到很難過\n最後一個部長我只是想要儘速的在幫我們的這個最近我們的央行升息喔勞動部有開辦多項的政策性貸款例如我們的微型創業鳳凰貸款還有我們就業保險失業者創業貸款和失業中高齡者及高齡者的創業貸款喔\n那這些政策性的貸款也都有採寄到中華郵政股份有限公司兩年期的這個定期儲金機動利率的計算這也代表著會受到這次升息的影響然後我們的行政院副院長在3月22號有召開跨部會議決議由政府權而補貼這個相關的升息的利息但是我發現剛剛這三項有關於勞工的政策性貸款都沒有納入裡面\n所以我在想你們是不是要跟行政院爭取因應升息衝擊的利息補貼或者是勞動部內部另外辦理因應升息衝擊的還款展言可以嗎?\n這個部分其實因為這個勞工紓困貸款主要是那時候針對疫情期間受影響的勞工因為那時候影響最大所以在所有的升息裡面已經升了五次了已經五次其實我們就補貼了四次就是針對那個因為疫情受影響特別他應該特別艱困那其他的其實這些貸款他們是影響很低這個都有充分評估過\n因為這些補貼其實平常就有補貼他們所以對他們這個升息的影響是比較小的\n好那我可以請本席再請您回去再重再一次討論一下因為他們都是比較弱勢的勞工是不是可以如果你說影響不大那是不是給納入這一次的補貼的方案裡面呢對這個向委員那個像那個剛剛您講的那個鳳鴻創業齁他一年喔一年才像這樣的升息辦法他增加869塊而已一年才增加\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.178 --> 00:25.484\n主席好,有請我們許部長。請許部長。六人好。許部長你好。部長,那個職安署啊,跟前年成立的職災預防及重建中心的業務有沒有重疊之處?\n\n00:27.691 --> 00:53.843\n不一樣。不一樣?對。好。那職災預防及重建中心打算在高雄設立職業健康及重建之家新聞報導說最快113年請問部長現在這個計畫的進度到哪裡?何時會完成?報告委員我們本來原先是大概這個月要開始做一個裝修結果發現那個陳柱的房子是歷史建築\n\n00:55.491 --> 01:18.985\n所以現在因為歷史建築它在裝修的程序上比較麻煩所以我們現在這個先暫停另外在另覓新址也有先找到兩個點那請問一下這個設置我們重建之家最主要想要達成什麼樣的目的您可不可以簡單的講我們希望就是在這個我們的勞工重建的這個部分能夠給予更專業\n\n01:20.546 --> 01:26.710\n所謂更多的資源協助目前已經有36家職能復健的專責醫院20家強化訓練機構還有22個縣市政府的職災個案管理專業服務人員還有管理服務資訊系統也有連結勞發署的職業訓練\n\n01:47.705 --> 01:48.186\n因為這個部分我們是希望有\n\n02:11.069 --> 02:29.520\n高雄是屬於勞工比較多的地方像建立這個重建之家它主要是針對在工作的重建希望是一個專責的直接專責的單位來直接來協助那剛剛所講的那個部長那你剛剛說到在高雄\n\n02:30.200 --> 02:47.518\n但是你跟高雄看這個用這個重建之家不過我看勞動部的資料36家專責醫院中高雄的專責醫院就有5家也是各縣市之冠訓練機構也有一家所以資源並不稀缺喔並不缺所以設立這個重建之家主軸是什麼\n\n02:48.018 --> 03:13.966\n那個我們比較這些專責醫院或者這個網絡醫院主要是在醫療的復健醫療的復健就在他的工作他的身體的這個健康復健然後我們這個部分是比較就是針對專業針對他工作工作上如何重建讓他能夠回復他的工作職能我請問你這個評估有沒有評估的依據或標準\n\n03:15.233 --> 03:31.111\n然後你預計要花多少錢?服務多少人數?報告委我們這個有當然有我們重建中心這邊有經過討論有專業的一些評估不過你剛問的那些數據我在是不是會後再提供給您\n\n03:31.618 --> 03:45.937\n好我只是覺得很好奇為何不善用現行指定的專責機構如果資源不足就邀請多一些醫院跟機構來評鑑多增加一些指定醫院機構讓這些醫院跟機構都可以就近服務不是更好\n\n03:46.598 --> 04:09.826\n那你特別在成立這個東西對我們來講它就是一個疊床架屋因為你講的都講不清楚說它到底跟現有的機制有什麼很不一樣的地方或是你可以補足哪些現有不足的地方所以現有機制如果都可以處理為什麼要浪費公帑去蓋一個文資館甚至是你也講不出來到底你要花多少錢要服務多少人沒有蓋啦就是說先成豬然後\n\n04:11.583 --> 04:35.269\n去把這個重建之家針對職災勞工在工作上重建所需要的一些協助我們在這個重建之家來提供部長我懂但是你講的都很像空話就是沒有很具體的回答說到底跟現有機制你可以補足哪些地方委員我們再做一些分析給你啦因為這個有些都蠻專業的\n\n04:36.109 --> 04:42.021\n好,請會後可不可以提供相關的報告說明給本席,好嗎?\n\n04:44.193 --> 05:09.890\n部長,勞動部所屬的勞研所就是會發出公安警訊而且還配置了專門的官網頁面把最新的因應時節變化之下最有可能的種種各類的公安風險來對外發布請問部長,如果企業、工廠和這些事業單位如果有注意到我們勞動部所發布中央的公安警訊是否就能夠降低職災的發生機率\n\n05:12.446 --> 05:16.649\n公安警訊除了放在所屬的官網上,還有其他的宣傳或宣傳管道呢?\n\n05:44.964 --> 06:03.270\n憲委員知道我們大概一般就是在官網以外對不對那我們像跟治安署的配合或是說像縣政府的一些配合我們在宣導會的時候對不對都會提供這些相關的資訊給他們作為那個腳本這樣所以你們會請那個縣市政府幫忙宣傳對對會宣導會都會他們會來跟我們要資料OK\n\n06:05.964 --> 06:31.532\n好那這個所以也就是說我可以確定就是說除了事業單位之外地方政府的勞動局處或是勞檢單位會依照你們的這個公安的警訊然後他也會要求去幫忙宣傳對嗎也應該也要幫忙宣傳對不對對對好那甚至針對那有沒有甚至要針對中央所預警的產業去加強勞檢的頻率或是增加勞檢的內容呢\n\n06:35.121 --> 06:58.190\n我是專屬署長有關這個水蒸氣爆炸預防的部分是國內外都當作是個蠻重要的爆炸預防的一個機制那這個這次這個個案看起來已經營業很多年那天早上的製程發生狀況產生直接是液態的鋁液接觸到水裏面這製程是固態的鋁定之後才能做水的那個coolingdown\n\n06:58.490 --> 07:01.292\n本席看到我們的勞動及職業安全衛生所研究所在2022年的10月有發布一個\n\n07:20.067 --> 07:35.175\n預防熔融高熱物相關作業與水接觸引起水蒸氣爆炸的公安警訊那他還提醒了大家這樣子的熔融高熱物相關作業中的熔融鋁等他的作業環境常常附近會\n\n07:36.115 --> 08:02.627\n常常會出現非預期的積水或是金屬碎片中含有水分如果操作不順或機械故障以致熔融高熱物與水接觸則水就會快速的加熱氣化體積會急速的膨脹約1700倍引起物理性的水蒸氣爆炸而且它威力很大會引發更大範圍的火災喔那麼我想要請問部長這則公安警訊有沒有給各個地方政府\n\n08:06.606 --> 08:32.743\n這個公安警訊是因為因應那個國外有一些相類似的案例沒有你就回答我有沒有給嘛因為你剛剛是說有嘛對不對剛剛你前面的回答是說你們這些公安警訊是有各個地方政府縣市政府都有講嘛對不對所以地方政府剛剛照你們的講也有義務要宣導或者依據這份警訊去修改這個產業的勞檢項目請教部長高雄有沒有去修改勞檢項目公安警訊發布後高雄市的勞工局有沒有去宣導\n\n08:33.973 --> 08:52.423\n以及高雄市政府這兩年有沒有針對鋁這個產業去勞檢?有嗎?這個我們可能要進一步了解高雄市政府的部分好部長我跟你講一個地方就看到你們根本沒有盡到督導責任而且我們的高雄市政府的這個勞動局也是螺絲吊滿地\n\n08:54.076 --> 09:18.116\n你們勞動部勞研所並非隨便亂發公安警訊所以我想你也不會否認你下屬單位的用心研究但是你知道高雄市政府連最基本的轉資宣導責任都沒有落實嗎部長你看喔事實上高雄市政府為了應付中央為了讓中央知道高雄市有在做所謂的表面上的公安警訊分工宣導不過只是開了專門頁面之後實際上卻已經從2022年開始都停擺至今了\n\n09:23.664 --> 09:44.029\n有沒有進到監督的職責?你們是沒有的。甚至在過去,高雄市政府也沒有如實的把勞動部職安所的公安警訊帶到地方來發布。請問部長,高雄市政府因此是不是要在這次加封旅業二死六傷的悲劇中,確實就是有該宣導而未宣導的行政責任?\n\n09:45.129 --> 10:04.210\n報告委員這個部分我可能要進一步再瞭解因為他這個網頁雖然沒有顯示出來但是他實質上有沒有去做宣導這恐怕都還做講習但是他的公安警訊應該就是一個對全國公布的地方嘛對不對那如果連這個地方都沒有做到是不是也是一個\n\n10:05.151 --> 10:21.289\n問題呢?報告委員所以這個要了解一下因為平常這種公安的這些座檔或長刑就代表你平常沒有盡到督導之責囉因為高雄市放水難道你們勞動部也要佛系把關嗎?這麼重大的公安職災中央跟地方都沒有人負責嗎?\n\n10:23.778 --> 10:27.741\n從星期五發生到現在,我想請問,勞動部是不是應該要專案督導一下我們高雄市政府呢?你以前也當過高雄市政府的副市長\n\n10:45.509 --> 11:05.247\n請問高雄市你在任職期間高雄市政府的職業安全措施有這麼鬆散嗎?不會啦因為報告委員我們其實勞動部我們這個檢查機關跟地方政府之間都有監督檢查的基礎沒有我想要提醒你這個東西就是公開資訊大家隨時上網都可以看得到的東西但是我的意思是說你\n\n11:06.468 --> 11:25.138\n這樣重大的職災如果都沒有人要下台負責難道勞動部跟高雄市政府今天也是要今天公祭明天旺祭嗎?我想要提醒你的是這個因為明明就已經做了這麼好的公安警訓結果居然還發生這種悲劇我覺得我真的很替這二死六傷感到很難過\n\n11:28.317 --> 11:45.846\n最後一個部長我只是想要儘速的在幫我們的這個最近我們的央行升息喔勞動部有開辦多項的政策性貸款例如我們的微型創業鳳凰貸款還有我們就業保險失業者創業貸款和失業中高齡者及高齡者的創業貸款喔\n\n11:46.986 --> 12:14.074\n那這些政策性的貸款也都有採寄到中華郵政股份有限公司兩年期的這個定期儲金機動利率的計算這也代表著會受到這次升息的影響然後我們的行政院副院長在3月22號有召開跨部會議決議由政府權而補貼這個相關的升息的利息但是我發現剛剛這三項有關於勞工的政策性貸款都沒有納入裡面\n\n12:15.714 --> 12:25.873\n所以我在想你們是不是要跟行政院爭取因應升息衝擊的利息補貼或者是勞動部內部另外辦理因應升息衝擊的還款展言可以嗎?\n\n12:28.520 --> 12:55.342\n這個部分其實因為這個勞工紓困貸款主要是那時候針對疫情期間受影響的勞工因為那時候影響最大所以在所有的升息裡面已經升了五次了已經五次其實我們就補貼了四次就是針對那個因為疫情受影響特別他應該特別艱困那其他的其實這些貸款他們是影響很低這個都有充分評估過\n\n12:56.564 --> 13:02.760\n因為這些補貼其實平常就有補貼他們所以對他們這個升息的影響是比較小的\n\n13:03.649 --> 13:26.211\n好那我可以請本席再請您回去再重再一次討論一下因為他們都是比較弱勢的勞工是不是可以如果你說影響不大那是不是給納入這一次的補貼的方案裡面呢對這個向委員那個像那個剛剛您講的那個鳳鴻創業齁他一年喔一年才像這樣的升息辦法他增加869塊而已一年才增加\n\n13:27.933 --> 13:35.040\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.178,"end":25.484,"text":"主席好,有請我們許部長。請許部長。六人好。許部長你好。部長,那個職安署啊,跟前年成立的職災預防及重建中心的業務有沒有重疊之處?"},{"start":27.691,"end":53.843,"text":"不一樣。不一樣?對。好。那職災預防及重建中心打算在高雄設立職業健康及重建之家新聞報導說最快113年請問部長現在這個計畫的進度到哪裡?何時會完成?報告委員我們本來原先是大概這個月要開始做一個裝修結果發現那個陳柱的房子是歷史建築"},{"start":55.491,"end":78.985,"text":"所以現在因為歷史建築它在裝修的程序上比較麻煩所以我們現在這個先暫停另外在另覓新址也有先找到兩個點那請問一下這個設置我們重建之家最主要想要達成什麼樣的目的您可不可以簡單的講我們希望就是在這個我們的勞工重建的這個部分能夠給予更專業"},{"start":80.546,"end":86.71,"text":"所謂更多的資源協助目前已經有36家職能復健的專責醫院20家強化訓練機構還有22個縣市政府的職災個案管理專業服務人員還有管理服務資訊系統也有連結勞發署的職業訓練"},{"start":107.705,"end":108.186,"text":"因為這個部分我們是希望有"},{"start":131.069,"end":149.52,"text":"高雄是屬於勞工比較多的地方像建立這個重建之家它主要是針對在工作的重建希望是一個專責的直接專責的單位來直接來協助那剛剛所講的那個部長那你剛剛說到在高雄"},{"start":150.2,"end":167.518,"text":"但是你跟高雄看這個用這個重建之家不過我看勞動部的資料36家專責醫院中高雄的專責醫院就有5家也是各縣市之冠訓練機構也有一家所以資源並不稀缺喔並不缺所以設立這個重建之家主軸是什麼"},{"start":168.018,"end":193.966,"text":"那個我們比較這些專責醫院或者這個網絡醫院主要是在醫療的復健醫療的復健就在他的工作他的身體的這個健康復健然後我們這個部分是比較就是針對專業針對他工作工作上如何重建讓他能夠回復他的工作職能我請問你這個評估有沒有評估的依據或標準"},{"start":195.233,"end":211.111,"text":"然後你預計要花多少錢?服務多少人數?報告委我們這個有當然有我們重建中心這邊有經過討論有專業的一些評估不過你剛問的那些數據我在是不是會後再提供給您"},{"start":211.618,"end":225.937,"text":"好我只是覺得很好奇為何不善用現行指定的專責機構如果資源不足就邀請多一些醫院跟機構來評鑑多增加一些指定醫院機構讓這些醫院跟機構都可以就近服務不是更好"},{"start":226.598,"end":249.826,"text":"那你特別在成立這個東西對我們來講它就是一個疊床架屋因為你講的都講不清楚說它到底跟現有的機制有什麼很不一樣的地方或是你可以補足哪些現有不足的地方所以現有機制如果都可以處理為什麼要浪費公帑去蓋一個文資館甚至是你也講不出來到底你要花多少錢要服務多少人沒有蓋啦就是說先成豬然後"},{"start":251.583,"end":275.269,"text":"去把這個重建之家針對職災勞工在工作上重建所需要的一些協助我們在這個重建之家來提供部長我懂但是你講的都很像空話就是沒有很具體的回答說到底跟現有機制你可以補足哪些地方委員我們再做一些分析給你啦因為這個有些都蠻專業的"},{"start":276.109,"end":282.021,"text":"好,請會後可不可以提供相關的報告說明給本席,好嗎?"},{"start":284.193,"end":309.89,"text":"部長,勞動部所屬的勞研所就是會發出公安警訊而且還配置了專門的官網頁面把最新的因應時節變化之下最有可能的種種各類的公安風險來對外發布請問部長,如果企業、工廠和這些事業單位如果有注意到我們勞動部所發布中央的公安警訊是否就能夠降低職災的發生機率"},{"start":312.446,"end":316.649,"text":"公安警訊除了放在所屬的官網上,還有其他的宣傳或宣傳管道呢?"},{"start":344.964,"end":363.27,"text":"憲委員知道我們大概一般就是在官網以外對不對那我們像跟治安署的配合或是說像縣政府的一些配合我們在宣導會的時候對不對都會提供這些相關的資訊給他們作為那個腳本這樣所以你們會請那個縣市政府幫忙宣傳對對會宣導會都會他們會來跟我們要資料OK"},{"start":365.964,"end":391.532,"text":"好那這個所以也就是說我可以確定就是說除了事業單位之外地方政府的勞動局處或是勞檢單位會依照你們的這個公安的警訊然後他也會要求去幫忙宣傳對嗎也應該也要幫忙宣傳對不對對對好那甚至針對那有沒有甚至要針對中央所預警的產業去加強勞檢的頻率或是增加勞檢的內容呢"},{"start":395.121,"end":418.19,"text":"我是專屬署長有關這個水蒸氣爆炸預防的部分是國內外都當作是個蠻重要的爆炸預防的一個機制那這個這次這個個案看起來已經營業很多年那天早上的製程發生狀況產生直接是液態的鋁液接觸到水裏面這製程是固態的鋁定之後才能做水的那個cooling down"},{"start":418.49,"end":421.292,"text":"本席看到我們的勞動及職業安全衛生所研究所在2022年的10月有發布一個"},{"start":440.067,"end":455.175,"text":"預防熔融高熱物相關作業與水接觸引起水蒸氣爆炸的公安警訊那他還提醒了大家這樣子的熔融高熱物相關作業中的熔融鋁等他的作業環境常常附近會"},{"start":456.115,"end":482.627,"text":"常常會出現非預期的積水或是金屬碎片中含有水分如果操作不順或機械故障以致熔融高熱物與水接觸則水就會快速的加熱氣化體積會急速的膨脹約1700倍引起物理性的水蒸氣爆炸而且它威力很大會引發更大範圍的火災喔那麼我想要請問部長這則公安警訊有沒有給各個地方政府"},{"start":486.606,"end":512.743,"text":"這個公安警訊是因為因應那個國外有一些相類似的案例沒有你就回答我有沒有給嘛因為你剛剛是說有嘛對不對剛剛你前面的回答是說你們這些公安警訊是有各個地方政府縣市政府都有講嘛對不對所以地方政府剛剛照你們的講也有義務要宣導或者依據這份警訊去修改這個產業的勞檢項目請教部長高雄有沒有去修改勞檢項目公安警訊發布後高雄市的勞工局有沒有去宣導"},{"start":513.973,"end":532.423,"text":"以及高雄市政府這兩年有沒有針對鋁這個產業去勞檢?有嗎?這個我們可能要進一步了解高雄市政府的部分好部長我跟你講一個地方就看到你們根本沒有盡到督導責任而且我們的高雄市政府的這個勞動局也是螺絲吊滿地"},{"start":534.076,"end":558.116,"text":"你們勞動部勞研所並非隨便亂發公安警訊所以我想你也不會否認你下屬單位的用心研究但是你知道高雄市政府連最基本的轉資宣導責任都沒有落實嗎部長你看喔事實上高雄市政府為了應付中央為了讓中央知道高雄市有在做所謂的表面上的公安警訊分工宣導不過只是開了專門頁面之後實際上卻已經從2022年開始都停擺至今了"},{"start":563.664,"end":584.029,"text":"有沒有進到監督的職責?你們是沒有的。甚至在過去,高雄市政府也沒有如實的把勞動部職安所的公安警訊帶到地方來發布。請問部長,高雄市政府因此是不是要在這次加封旅業二死六傷的悲劇中,確實就是有該宣導而未宣導的行政責任?"},{"start":585.129,"end":604.21,"text":"報告委員 這個部分我可能要進一步再瞭解因為他這個網頁雖然沒有顯示出來但是他實質上有沒有去做宣導這恐怕都還做講習但是他的公安警訊應該就是一個對全國公布的地方嘛 對不對那如果連這個地方都沒有做到是不是也是一個"},{"start":605.151,"end":621.289,"text":"問題呢?報告委員所以這個要了解一下因為平常這種公安的這些座檔或長刑就代表你平常沒有盡到督導之責囉因為高雄市放水難道你們勞動部也要佛系把關嗎?這麼重大的公安職災中央跟地方都沒有人負責嗎?"},{"start":623.778,"end":627.741,"text":"從星期五發生到現在,我想請問,勞動部是不是應該要專案督導一下我們高雄市政府呢?你以前也當過高雄市政府的副市長"},{"start":645.509,"end":665.247,"text":"請問高雄市你在任職期間高雄市政府的職業安全措施有這麼鬆散嗎?不會啦因為報告委員我們其實勞動部我們這個檢查機關跟地方政府之間都有監督檢查的基礎沒有我想要提醒你這個東西就是公開資訊大家隨時上網都可以看得到的東西但是我的意思是說你"},{"start":666.468,"end":685.138,"text":"這樣重大的職災如果都沒有人要下台負責難道勞動部跟高雄市政府今天也是要今天公祭明天旺祭嗎?我想要提醒你的是這個因為明明就已經做了這麼好的公安警訓結果居然還發生這種悲劇我覺得我真的很替這二死六傷感到很難過"},{"start":688.317,"end":705.846,"text":"最後一個部長我只是想要儘速的在幫我們的這個最近我們的央行升息喔勞動部有開辦多項的政策性貸款例如我們的微型創業鳳凰貸款還有我們就業保險失業者創業貸款和失業中高齡者及高齡者的創業貸款喔"},{"start":706.986,"end":734.074,"text":"那這些政策性的貸款也都有採寄到中華郵政股份有限公司兩年期的這個定期儲金機動利率的計算這也代表著會受到這次升息的影響然後我們的行政院副院長在3月22號有召開跨部會議決議由政府權而補貼這個相關的升息的利息但是我發現剛剛這三項有關於勞工的政策性貸款都沒有納入裡面"},{"start":735.714,"end":745.873,"text":"所以我在想你們是不是要跟行政院爭取因應升息衝擊的利息補貼或者是勞動部內部另外辦理因應升息衝擊的還款展言可以嗎?"},{"start":748.52,"end":775.342,"text":"這個部分其實因為這個勞工紓困貸款主要是那時候針對疫情期間受影響的勞工因為那時候影響最大所以在所有的升息裡面已經升了五次了已經五次其實我們就補貼了四次就是針對那個因為疫情受影響特別他應該特別艱困那其他的其實這些貸款他們是影響很低這個都有充分評估過"},{"start":776.564,"end":782.76,"text":"因為這些補貼其實平常就有補貼他們所以對他們這個升息的影響是比較小的"},{"start":783.649,"end":806.211,"text":"好那我可以請本席再請您回去再重再一次討論一下因為他們都是比較弱勢的勞工是不是可以如果你說影響不大那是不是給納入這一次的補貼的方案裡面呢對這個向委員那個像那個剛剛您講的那個鳳鴻創業齁他一年喔一年才像這樣的升息辦法他增加869塊而已一年才增加"},{"start":807.933,"end":815.04,"text":"二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論"}]}}}}