{"id":150332,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150332","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b3e8191f7000b246fe5559e54a1be29d3f8ba9b0039caa7a64318f82bdde02a7a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:22:20 - 10:33:18","影片長度":"00:10:58","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案(含報告事項20案及討論事項1案)。\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-8"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":658,"end_time":"2024-03-25T10:33:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T10:22:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":558,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時22分）謝謝主席，我們請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：王委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。3月23號湖內佳豐鋁業工廠爆炸，2死6傷，這個是非常重大的一個工安事件，這麼重大的一個工安事件，我看到媒體特別提到說，事實上去年12月這一家業者已經被開罰了5次，請問職安署有掌握這樣的狀況嗎？高雄勞工局有通報嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，它那個是廢棄物清理法的。"],["王委員育敏：它違反的是廢棄物清理法，跟工安完全沒有關係？"],["許部長銘春：對，跟工安沒有關係。"],["王委員育敏：但是它說它過去也被裁罰了高達十幾次，跟工安都沒有關係？"],["許部長銘春：跟工安有關係的，我記得好像是7次，就是通知它要改善。"],["王委員育敏：有改善嗎？"],["許部長銘春：有改善。"],["王委員育敏：跟這次發生的原因是不一樣的嗎？"],["許部長銘春：不一樣，完全不一樣。"],["王委員育敏：因為一家工廠發生這麼多次情況，雖然是不同的情況，但是對於勞動部來講，對於地方的勞工局來講，有把它列為是你們去稽查它相關安全設施的一個重點對象嗎？有被列冊嗎？有特別被列管嗎？有嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為它之前違反職安的部分，都是跟工廠設備安全沒有關係的，我記得好像是教育訓練的部分跟自動……"],["王委員育敏：所以沒有列冊，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：它就是……"],["王委員育敏：並沒有把它列為高風險？"],["許部長銘春：對，沒有。"],["王委員育敏：但是媒體報導它有高達700度的高溫。"],["許部長銘春：這一次它是在製程中有一個控制系統發生問題，據現在瞭解的是這樣，但後續真正的原因要等調查報告出來，我們也認為像鋁鑄這種產業其實是滿高風險的產業，它一旦發生爆炸，其實影響很大，我們……"],["王委員育敏：所以過去你們沒有把它列為是高風險？"],["許部長銘春：我們……"],["王委員育敏：你們現在會把這個相關的工廠列為高風險嗎？"],["許部長銘春：會。"],["王委員育敏：因為它既是高溫，又一個不慎就爆炸，而且死傷是這麼大的一個範圍。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，之後我們會針對鋁鑄造業相關的工廠實施專案的勞檢。"],["王委員育敏：你們現在盤查臺灣類似這樣的一個工廠，鋁鑄造業有多少家？分布在哪裡？是不是多數又是在高雄？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，總數是473，那分布我看一下……"],["王委員育敏：473家……"],["許部長銘春：跟鋁相關的啦！如果單純鋁鑄造業是243……"],["王委員育敏：243家，那分布在哪裡？"],["許部長銘春：分布我看一下，其實都有……"],["王委員育敏：有集中的現象嗎？"],["許部長銘春：比較多的是在彰化……臺南最多，臺南、彰化。"],["王委員育敏：好，那本席要求……"],["許部長銘春：臺中也有，新北也不少，桃園……"],["王委員育敏：好，那本席要求，既然有超過兩百多家是同樣的，那它的製程過程當中可能有高溫的情況，這兩百多家我要要求勞動部的就是，這次既然爆發這麼重大的一個工安事件，你們應該把這一次的檢討、把這些所有發生的原因要回饋給這兩百多家……"],["許部長銘春：會、會。"],["王委員育敏：讓他們更審慎去注意，就是在它製程過程可能會產生這樣的工安風險，這可不可以做到？"],["許部長銘春：可以，我覺得這件事情，我們會來規劃一個座談會，邀請高階主管來參與，把這個案例還有在整個相關製程或者鋁鑄造，可能會遇到的危險，就一次的座談，讓大家能夠清楚瞭解。當然，另外勞檢的部分我們也會規劃。"],["王委員育敏：好，本席要求的比較著重是你要把每一次重大工安意外發生的原因，再回饋給這一些相關的產業，讓它做下一次的預防，我覺得這個比事後的開罰其實是更重要的，因為你這樣子才能確保他們在製程過程當中，大家提高那個風險意識，或者是相關的教育訓練做到位，才不會有下一個同樣的案例再發生，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["王委員育敏：這個部分本席要求你們回去研議之後，把你們預備的作法，一份報告給本席，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["王委員育敏：我覺得這個非常重要。","另外，我要提醒的就是高雄的重大工安事件，現在看起來在製造業的工安，其實統計起來它在六都當中是最高的，可能它過去是一個工業的城市，我們發現最近這好幾起，無論是化學廠、大理石工廠或是其他的工廠，這一種爆炸，然後崩落、倒塌相關的其實是蠻高的。就這個部分，部長過去也出身高雄市，你自己是不是有一些觀察？你認為這個應該要怎麼樣去改善？過去這樣的一個工業都市，這麼多的工廠，然後它發生的比例是相對高的，要怎麼樣去改善？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，高雄這幾年，之前啦！我是覺得它的工安發生率滿高，這兩年有降下來，當然……"],["王委員育敏：統計起來還是相對高。"],["許部長銘春：像上禮拜發生這件事，我們還是覺得非常遺憾，不過我是覺得很重要的就是，在相關的製造業也好、營造業也好，高風險的部分，我是覺得平常可能要請地方政府這邊更針對一些相關的如何落實自主管理、預防災害發生，應該要再做相關的一些宣導啦！另外，提高檢查率、嚴查、勤查、嚴罰，這個我想都可以對降低職災會有所幫助。"],["王委員育敏：部長，我再讓你看另外一個數據，剛剛我們提到的是高雄的部分，如果全國看起來，我們重大職災死亡的人數事實上是居高不下，你看每一年這個數字幾乎都是超過三百人，而這當中營建業大概就是占了一半以上，因為他是從高空墜落，所以死亡人數也都非常的高。","所以我要問一下部長，我們有職安署，我們也一直在宣導，但是重大職災的死亡人數，其實你如果就整個統計來看，並沒有一個下降的趨勢，都還是維持在三百人這樣的高點，而這一些其實坦白講透過進一步預防是可以不用發生的，如果它前面再做得更好一點的話。部長你自己有沒有分析，為什麼我們又成立了職安署，也是很重視這件事啊！那做到現在，為什麼還是這麼高的死亡人數？"],["許部長銘春：對，平均有降，但營造業還是……我是認為這個還非常不滿意啦！我跟委員報告，因為可能也跟這幾年整個申請建造，我們總建坪……"],["王委員育敏：你說是因為營造業增加的關係？"],["許部長銘春：增加，而且我們發現都是高樓層跟開挖，這個部分……"],["王委員育敏：如果是這樣子，營造業就要有專案好好的來澈底檢討啊！"],["許部長銘春：是，所以我們這幾年一直把營造業都列為我們檢查的重點。"],["王委員育敏：你們有一個「營造業墜落打擊年」，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["王委員育敏：你們去年有訂這樣的方案嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對，今年……"],["王委員育敏：今年要開始施行，但這個的重點是什麼？我很擔心，因為我看到你們有一個仿照日本，叫「安全看得見」，你們是要做手冊，做手冊有用嗎？你們要怎麼落實？來，署長，你要補充，你說。"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員……"],["王委員育敏：跟大家報告清楚，你這個到底要怎麼做，讓它發揮真正的效果？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，日本的工安它有一些起伏，但日本營造業相對比臺灣好，這我們承認，「安全看得見」是在現場的一些標示、路線、顏色還有警訊，在現場看得到那個是危險或不危險、安全或不安全，是現場看得見，而不是純粹發手冊而已，所以我們會希望檢查員到現場的時候輔導事業單位，特別是營造業，這邊是有護欄、這邊是有高空作業，要做警示、要做一些判斷，顏色出來就可以看到安全，才做進一步的工作，所以是在現場的安全看得到。"],["王委員育敏：現場看得見，有非常清楚的標示……"],["鄒署長子廉：是、是、是。"],["王委員育敏：那怎麼樣去確保現場的安全是有到位？除了標示之外，有些工人他可能應該要一些安全的……像那個要拉住的，但是他完全沒有扣或是沒有做啊！像SOP根本就是漏掉的，這種程序上的，你要怎麼去監管？"],["許部長銘春：平常他要進到工地都要有工安的教育訓練，這個……"],["王委員育敏：是啊！但是現場可能沒有落實啊！你要怎麼樣去確認現場是有落實？"],["許部長銘春：因為每個公司都有營造的監造人員，其實我們也都會要求監造人一定要每天去巡嘛！要針對在現場施作的這些勞工、員工，安全防護具有沒有都具備、有沒有扣好，這個一定要落實。"],["王委員育敏：本席另外一個要求，除了剛剛的要求之外，針對你們今年要全面啟動的營造業的「安全看得見」要怎麼去落實？怎麼有效的降低這樣的死亡率？你們應該要有一個比較清楚的專案內容跟報告，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["王委員育敏：也提供給本席跟本委員會。","最後，我要問一下消防員權益的問題，消防員到底要不要適用勞安的條例？他們的職安需不需要保障？目前勞動部的態度是怎麼樣？工會他們是希望可以納入勞安條例，但是勞動部呢？你們要去保障消防員的職業安全嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，其實這個部分就是在他們消防員的專章裡面。"],["王委員育敏：你們現在傾向是回到專章，沒有回到勞動部這邊的職安法？"],["許部長銘春：這個就是院那邊開會……"],["王委員育敏：那你們有沒有跟工會溝通？沒有？"],["許部長銘春：因為那個是消防署……"],["王委員育敏：所以你們是覺得不關你們的事，好，我瞭解了，所以你們完全沒有涉及這塊就對了？"],["許部長銘春：不是，沒有啦！委員，消防專章我們有幫忙。"],["王委員育敏：你們有幫忙？"],["許部長銘春：對，我們有幫忙，我們有提供專業……"],["王委員育敏：好，那本席要求至少一件事情，消防員的保障不應該低於勞工，應該是等齊的，所以你們應該要在行政院裡面好好去反映，針對怎麼樣進一步去保障消防員他們的職業安全、避免過勞的事情，我覺得勞動部你們要提出最專業的意見，好不好？給消防弟兄打氣，然後作為他們的後盾，好不好？謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝。"],["主席（王委員正旭代）：好，謝謝王育敏委員的發言。","下一位我們請黃秀芳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-8","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","王育敏","盧縣一","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","黃國昌","賴士葆","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","徐巧芯","葉元之"],"page_sta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144.708, \"end\": 145.749, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 145.749, \"end\": 145.909, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 145.909, \"end\": 146.35, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 146.35, \"end\": 146.87, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"盤\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 146.87, \"end\": 147.07, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 147.07, \"end\": 148.191, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"似\", \"start\": 148.191, \"end\": 148.611, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 148.611, \"end\": 148.711, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 148.711, \"end\": 148.932, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 148.932, \"end\": 149.872, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"鋁\"}, {\"word\": \"鑄\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 149.872, 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\"女主造業243家與女相關的女主造業243家分佈在哪裡?有集中的現象嗎?比較多的是在臺南彰化\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"女\", \"start\": 160.889, \"end\": 161.53, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 161.53, \"end\": 161.77, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 161.77, \"end\": 162.611, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 162.611, \"end\": 162.731, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"女\", \"start\": 162.731, \"end\": 162.892, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 162.892, \"end\": 163.012, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 163.012, \"end\": 163.092, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"女\", \"start\": 163.092, \"end\": 163.232, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 163.232, \"end\": 163.252, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 163.252, \"end\": 163.312, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 163.312, \"end\": 163.993, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 163.993, \"end\": 164.093, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"佈\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 164.093, \"end\": 164.153, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 164.153, \"end\": 164.253, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 164.253, \"end\": 164.333, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 164.333, \"end\": 164.473, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 164.473, \"end\": 164.493, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 164.493, \"end\": 164.573, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 164.573, \"end\": 164.693, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 164.693, \"end\": 164.713, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 164.713, \"end\": 164.774, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 164.774, \"end\": 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:08,709\n謝謝主席我們是請許部長請許部長\n\n2\n00:00:14,181 --> 00:00:41,564\n王委員好部長好部長3月23號湖內嘉峰旅業工廠爆炸二死六傷這個是非常重大的一個公安事件那這麼重大的一個公安事件我看到媒體他特別提到說事實上去年12月這一家業者已經被開罰了5次請問治安署有掌握這樣的狀況嗎高雄勞工局有通報嗎\n\n3\n00:00:42,725 --> 00:00:56,811\n他那個是廢棄物清理法的他違反的是廢棄物跟公安完全沒有關係但是他說他過去也被裁罰了高達十幾次都跟公安都沒有關係跟公安有關係好像我記得好像七次啦就是通知他改善\n\n4\n00:00:57,947 --> 00:01:23,707\n有改善嗎?跟這次發生的原因是不一樣的嗎?那你們後來因為一家工廠這麼多次發生情況雖然是不同的情況但是對於勞動部來講對於地方的勞工局來講有把它列為是重點你們去稽查它的相關安全設施的一個對象嗎?有被列冊嗎?有特別被列管嗎?有嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:24,267 --> 00:01:50,996\n報告委員因為它之前的違反職安的都是跟工廠設備安全沒有關係的我記得好像是教育訓練的部分跟那個所以沒有列車對不對它沒有把它列為高風險沒有但是從媒體報導它高達700度的高溫但這一次喔各位它這個是製程有一個控制系統發生問題現在瞭解是這樣但後續真正的原因要等那個這個\n\n6\n00:01:53,357 --> 00:02:13,401\n調查報告出來但我們也認為說這個像旅住這種產業其實蠻高風險的產業它一旦發生爆炸其實影響很大所以過去你們沒有把它列為是高風險那你們現在要把這個相關的工廠列為是高風險嗎因為它既是高溫又一個不慎就爆炸而且死傷這個是這麼這麼大的一個範圍\n\n7\n00:02:18,524 --> 00:02:35,677\n我們會針對鋁鑄造業相關的工廠為實施專案的勞檢那你們現在盤查台灣類似這樣的一個工廠鋁鑄造業有多少家分佈在哪裡?是不是多數又是在高雄?總數是473分佈我看一下\n\n8\n00:02:40,889 --> 00:02:45,074\n女主造業243家與女相關的女主造業243家分佈在哪裡?有集中的現象嗎?比較多的是在臺南彰化\n\n9\n00:03:02,449 --> 00:03:05,750\n那本席要求竟然有超過200多家是同樣的那他的製程過程當中可能有高溫的情況那這200多家我要要求勞動部的就是這次竟然爆發這麼重大的一個公安你們應該把這次的檢討把這些所有發生的原因要回饋給這200多家\n\n10\n00:03:28,519 --> 00:03:31,061\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n11\n00:03:46,452 --> 00:04:01,172\n主管、高階主管來參與那把這個案例還有可能相關的在這整個製程或者履住照可能會遇到的危險就一次的座談讓大家能夠清楚了解當然另外的勞檢這部分我們也會規劃\n\n12\n00:04:02,714 --> 00:04:13,084\n本席要求的比較著重是你要把每一次重大的公安意外它發生的原因再回饋給這些相關的產業讓它做下一次的預防我覺得這個比開罰事後的開罰其實是更重要的因為你這樣子才能確保他們在製程過程當中大家提高那個風險意識或是相關的教育訓練做到位才不會有下一個同樣的案例再發生好不好\n\n13\n00:04:29,219 --> 00:04:46,001\n本席要求你們回去研議之後把你們預備的做法要一份報告給本席好不好我覺得這個非常重要另外一個我要提醒的就是高雄的重大公安事件現在看起來它在製造業的公安其實統計起來它在六都當中其實是最高的\n\n14\n00:04:46,522 --> 00:05:15,151\n那可能它過去它是一個工業的城市我們發現最近這好幾起無論是化學廠或者是有大理石工廠或是其他的工廠這種爆炸然後崩落倒塌相關的其實是蠻高的那這個部分這個部長你過去也出身高雄市你自己是不是有一些觀察那你認為這個應該要怎麼樣去改善過去這樣的一個工業都市它這麼多的工廠然後它發生的比例是相對高的那要怎麼樣去改善\n\n15\n00:05:17,381 --> 00:05:37,640\n高雄當然這幾年之前我是覺得它的公關發生率滿高這兩年有降下來統計起來還是相對高像這樣裡面發生這件事情我們還是覺得非常遺憾我是覺得這個很重要的就是說在相關的製造業也好營造業也好\n\n16\n00:05:39,301 --> 00:06:06,867\n高風險的部分我是覺得平常可能要請地方政府這邊更針對一些相關的如何落實自主管理預防災害發生應該要再做相關的一些宣導做一些相關的宣導那另外提高這個檢查也提高檢查率研查、勤查、研法這個我想都可以對這個降低這個職災這個部長\n\n17\n00:06:08,567 --> 00:06:26,196\n我在讓你看另外一個數據剛剛我們提到的是高雄的部分那如果全國看起來我們重大值在死亡的人數事實上是居高不下每一年你看這個數字幾乎都是超過300人而這當中營建業大概就是佔了一半以上\n\n18\n00:06:26,536 --> 00:06:40,872\n因為他是從高空墜落所以他的死亡人數也都非常的高所以我要問一下部長我們有職安署我們也一直在宣導但是我們的這個重大職災的死亡人數其實你如果就整個統計來看並沒有\n\n19\n00:06:43,394 --> 00:06:53,060\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n20\n00:07:10,834 --> 00:07:27,136\n對啦,平均有增加營造業還是我是認為這個還非常不滿意啦但我根本報告因為可能也跟這幾年整個那個申請建造齁我們總那個總建平齁你說是因為營造業增加的關係然後而且我發現都是高樓層齁\n\n21\n00:07:28,217 --> 00:07:32,118\n含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論\n\n22\n00:07:58,137 --> 00:08:13,653\n你們要怎麼落實來署長你要補充你說跟大家報告清楚你這個到底要怎麼做讓他發揮真正的效果根本報告日本的公安他有一些起伏但日本營造相對比台灣好這是我們承認的所以說安全看的就是在現場\n\n23\n00:08:18,557 --> 00:08:35,309\n在現場看得到那個是危險或不危險安全不安全是現場看得見而不是純粹是發手冊而已所以我們會去向檢察員到現場的時候也輔導事業單位特別營造業這邊是有護欄這邊是有高空作業要做警示要做一些判斷那顏色出一格出來就可以看到了安全\n\n24\n00:08:35,969 --> 00:08:59,967\n那就還在做進一步的工作這是在現場的安全看得到現場看得見有非常清楚的標示那怎麼樣去確保現場他的安全是有到位除了標示之外有些公務員他可能應該要有一些安全的那個要拉住的但是他完全沒有扣啊或是沒有做啊像這種SOP根本就是落掉的那這種的程序上的你要怎麼去監管平常他要進到工地都要\n\n25\n00:09:01,008 --> 00:09:19,378\n公安的教育訓練那是現場可能沒有落實啊那你要怎麼樣去確認現場是有落實因為每個公司都有營造的監照人員我們也都會要求監照人員一定要每天他會去尋嘛要針對他在現場施作的這些勞工、員工\n\n26\n00:09:20,919 --> 00:09:40,707\n安全防護具有沒有都具備有沒有扣好本期另外一個要求除了剛剛的要求之外你們針對你們今年要全面啟動的針對營造業的這個安全看得見要怎麼去落實怎麼有效的降低這樣的一個死亡率你們應該要一個比較清楚的專案的內容跟報告好不好\n\n27\n00:09:41,167 --> 00:10:02,319\n也提供給本席跟本委員會最後我要問一下消防員權益的問題消防員到底要不要適用這個勞安的條例他們的職安需不需要保障目前勞動部的態度是怎麼樣公會他們是希望可以納入這個勞安條例但是勞動部呢你們要去保障消防員的這個職業安全嗎\n\n28\n00:10:03,086 --> 00:10:16,639\n那個報告委員其實這個部分我們就是在專他們消防院的專章裡面你們現在請相是回到專章沒有回到這個勞動部這邊的治安法這個就是院那邊開會齁那你們沒有跟工會溝通\n\n29\n00:10:19,073 --> 00:10:34,395\n因為那個是消防署所以你們是絕不關你們的事好我了解了所以你們完全沒有涉及這一塊就對了不是我們消防專章我們有幫忙你們有幫忙我們有幫忙那本席要求至少一件事情\n\n30\n00:10:35,776 --> 00:10:55,566\n這個消防員的保障不應該低於勞工應該是等期的所以你們應該要在行政院裡面好好去反應針對消防員怎麼樣進一步去保障他們的職業安全避免過勞的事情我覺得勞動部裡面要提出最專業的意見好不好給消防弟兄就是打氣然後做為他們的後盾好不好好謝謝好謝謝王玉明\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7440\t8709\t謝謝主席我們是請許部長請許部長\n14181\t41564\t王委員好部長好部長3月23號湖內嘉峰旅業工廠爆炸二死六傷這個是非常重大的一個公安事件那這麼重大的一個公安事件我看到媒體他特別提到說事實上去年12月這一家業者已經被開罰了5次請問治安署有掌握這樣的狀況嗎高雄勞工局有通報嗎\n42725\t56811\t他那個是廢棄物清理法的他違反的是廢棄物跟公安完全沒有關係但是他說他過去也被裁罰了高達十幾次都跟公安都沒有關係跟公安有關係好像我記得好像七次啦就是通知他改善\n57947\t83707\t有改善嗎?跟這次發生的原因是不一樣的嗎?那你們後來因為一家工廠這麼多次發生情況雖然是不同的情況但是對於勞動部來講對於地方的勞工局來講有把它列為是重點你們去稽查它的相關安全設施的一個對象嗎?有被列冊嗎?有特別被列管嗎?有嗎?\n84267\t110996\t報告委員因為它之前的違反職安的都是跟工廠設備安全沒有關係的我記得好像是教育訓練的部分跟那個所以沒有列車對不對它沒有把它列為高風險沒有但是從媒體報導它高達700度的高溫但這一次喔各位它這個是製程有一個控制系統發生問題現在瞭解是這樣但後續真正的原因要等那個這個\n113357\t133401\t調查報告出來但我們也認為說這個像旅住這種產業其實蠻高風險的產業它一旦發生爆炸其實影響很大所以過去你們沒有把它列為是高風險那你們現在要把這個相關的工廠列為是高風險嗎因為它既是高溫又一個不慎就爆炸而且死傷這個是這麼這麼大的一個範圍\n138524\t155677\t我們會針對鋁鑄造業相關的工廠為實施專案的勞檢那你們現在盤查台灣類似這樣的一個工廠鋁鑄造業有多少家分佈在哪裡?是不是多數又是在高雄?總數是473分佈我看一下\n160889\t165074\t女主造業243家與女相關的女主造業243家分佈在哪裡?有集中的現象嗎?比較多的是在臺南彰化\n182449\t185750\t那本席要求竟然有超過200多家是同樣的那他的製程過程當中可能有高溫的情況那這200多家我要要求勞動部的就是這次竟然爆發這麼重大的一個公安你們應該把這次的檢討把這些所有發生的原因要回饋給這200多家\n208519\t211061\t二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論\n226452\t241172\t主管、高階主管來參與那把這個案例還有可能相關的在這整個製程或者履住照可能會遇到的危險就一次的座談讓大家能夠清楚了解當然另外的勞檢這部分我們也會規劃\n242714\t253084\t本席要求的比較著重是你要把每一次重大的公安意外它發生的原因再回饋給這些相關的產業讓它做下一次的預防我覺得這個比開罰事後的開罰其實是更重要的因為你這樣子才能確保他們在製程過程當中大家提高那個風險意識或是相關的教育訓練做到位才不會有下一個同樣的案例再發生好不好\n269219\t286001\t本席要求你們回去研議之後把你們預備的做法要一份報告給本席好不好我覺得這個非常重要另外一個我要提醒的就是高雄的重大公安事件現在看起來它在製造業的公安其實統計起來它在六都當中其實是最高的\n286522\t315151\t那可能它過去它是一個工業的城市我們發現最近這好幾起無論是化學廠或者是有大理石工廠或是其他的工廠這種爆炸然後崩落倒塌相關的其實是蠻高的那這個部分這個部長你過去也出身高雄市你自己是不是有一些觀察那你認為這個應該要怎麼樣去改善過去這樣的一個工業都市它這麼多的工廠然後它發生的比例是相對高的那要怎麼樣去改善\n317381\t337640\t高雄當然這幾年之前我是覺得它的公關發生率滿高這兩年有降下來統計起來還是相對高像這樣裡面發生這件事情我們還是覺得非常遺憾我是覺得這個很重要的就是說在相關的製造業也好營造業也好\n339301\t366867\t高風險的部分我是覺得平常可能要請地方政府這邊更針對一些相關的如何落實自主管理預防災害發生應該要再做相關的一些宣導做一些相關的宣導那另外提高這個檢查也提高檢查率研查、勤查、研法這個我想都可以對這個降低這個職災這個部長\n368567\t386196\t我在讓你看另外一個數據剛剛我們提到的是高雄的部分那如果全國看起來我們重大值在死亡的人數事實上是居高不下每一年你看這個數字幾乎都是超過300人而這當中營建業大概就是佔了一半以上\n386536\t400872\t因為他是從高空墜落所以他的死亡人數也都非常的高所以我要問一下部長我們有職安署我們也一直在宣導但是我們的這個重大職災的死亡人數其實你如果就整個統計來看並沒有\n403394\t413060\t二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n430834\t447136\t對啦,平均有增加營造業還是我是認為這個還非常不滿意啦但我根本報告因為可能也跟這幾年整個那個申請建造齁我們總那個總建平齁你說是因為營造業增加的關係然後而且我發現都是高樓層齁\n448217\t452118\t含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論\n478137\t493653\t你們要怎麼落實來署長你要補充你說跟大家報告清楚你這個到底要怎麼做讓他發揮真正的效果根本報告日本的公安他有一些起伏但日本營造相對比台灣好這是我們承認的所以說安全看的就是在現場\n498557\t515309\t在現場看得到那個是危險或不危險安全不安全是現場看得見而不是純粹是發手冊而已所以我們會去向檢察員到現場的時候也輔導事業單位特別營造業這邊是有護欄這邊是有高空作業要做警示要做一些判斷那顏色出一格出來就可以看到了安全\n515969\t539967\t那就還在做進一步的工作這是在現場的安全看得到現場看得見有非常清楚的標示那怎麼樣去確保現場他的安全是有到位除了標示之外有些公務員他可能應該要有一些安全的那個要拉住的但是他完全沒有扣啊或是沒有做啊像這種SOP根本就是落掉的那這種的程序上的你要怎麼去監管平常他要進到工地都要\n541008\t559378\t公安的教育訓練那是現場可能沒有落實啊那你要怎麼樣去確認現場是有落實因為每個公司都有營造的監照人員我們也都會要求監照人員一定要每天他會去尋嘛要針對他在現場施作的這些勞工、員工\n560919\t580707\t安全防護具有沒有都具備有沒有扣好本期另外一個要求除了剛剛的要求之外你們針對你們今年要全面啟動的針對營造業的這個安全看得見要怎麼去落實怎麼有效的降低這樣的一個死亡率你們應該要一個比較清楚的專案的內容跟報告好不好\n581167\t602319\t也提供給本席跟本委員會最後我要問一下消防員權益的問題消防員到底要不要適用這個勞安的條例他們的職安需不需要保障目前勞動部的態度是怎麼樣公會他們是希望可以納入這個勞安條例但是勞動部呢你們要去保障消防員的這個職業安全嗎\n603086\t616639\t那個報告委員其實這個部分我們就是在專他們消防院的專章裡面你們現在請相是回到專章沒有回到這個勞動部這邊的治安法這個就是院那邊開會齁那你們沒有跟工會溝通\n619073\t634395\t因為那個是消防署所以你們是絕不關你們的事好 我了解了所以你們完全沒有涉及這一塊就對了不是我們消防專章我們有幫忙你們有幫忙我們有幫忙那本席要求至少一件事情\n635776\t655566\t這個消防員的保障不應該低於勞工應該是等期的所以你們應該要在行政院裡面好好去反應針對消防員怎麼樣進一步去保障他們的職業安全避免過勞的事情我覺得勞動部裡面要提出最專業的意見好不好給消防弟兄就是打氣然後做為他們的後盾好不好好謝謝好謝謝王玉明\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們是請許部長請許部長\n王委員好部長好部長3月23號湖內嘉峰旅業工廠爆炸二死六傷這個是非常重大的一個公安事件那這麼重大的一個公安事件我看到媒體他特別提到說事實上去年12月這一家業者已經被開罰了5次請問治安署有掌握這樣的狀況嗎高雄勞工局有通報嗎\n他那個是廢棄物清理法的他違反的是廢棄物跟公安完全沒有關係但是他說他過去也被裁罰了高達十幾次都跟公安都沒有關係跟公安有關係好像我記得好像七次啦就是通知他改善\n有改善嗎?跟這次發生的原因是不一樣的嗎?那你們後來因為一家工廠這麼多次發生情況雖然是不同的情況但是對於勞動部來講對於地方的勞工局來講有把它列為是重點你們去稽查它的相關安全設施的一個對象嗎?有被列冊嗎?有特別被列管嗎?有嗎?\n報告委員因為它之前的違反職安的都是跟工廠設備安全沒有關係的我記得好像是教育訓練的部分跟那個所以沒有列車對不對它沒有把它列為高風險沒有但是從媒體報導它高達700度的高溫但這一次喔各位它這個是製程有一個控制系統發生問題現在瞭解是這樣但後續真正的原因要等那個這個\n調查報告出來但我們也認為說這個像旅住這種產業其實蠻高風險的產業它一旦發生爆炸其實影響很大所以過去你們沒有把它列為是高風險那你們現在要把這個相關的工廠列為是高風險嗎因為它既是高溫又一個不慎就爆炸而且死傷這個是這麼這麼大的一個範圍\n我們會針對鋁鑄造業相關的工廠為實施專案的勞檢那你們現在盤查台灣類似這樣的一個工廠鋁鑄造業有多少家分佈在哪裡?是不是多數又是在高雄?總數是473分佈我看一下\n女主造業243家與女相關的女主造業243家分佈在哪裡?有集中的現象嗎?比較多的是在臺南彰化\n那本席要求竟然有超過200多家是同樣的那他的製程過程當中可能有高溫的情況那這200多家我要要求勞動部的就是這次竟然爆發這麼重大的一個公安你們應該把這次的檢討把這些所有發生的原因要回饋給這200多家\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論\n主管、高階主管來參與那把這個案例還有可能相關的在這整個製程或者履住照可能會遇到的危險就一次的座談讓大家能夠清楚了解當然另外的勞檢這部分我們也會規劃\n本席要求的比較著重是你要把每一次重大的公安意外它發生的原因再回饋給這些相關的產業讓它做下一次的預防我覺得這個比開罰事後的開罰其實是更重要的因為你這樣子才能確保他們在製程過程當中大家提高那個風險意識或是相關的教育訓練做到位才不會有下一個同樣的案例再發生好不好\n本席要求你們回去研議之後把你們預備的做法要一份報告給本席好不好我覺得這個非常重要另外一個我要提醒的就是高雄的重大公安事件現在看起來它在製造業的公安其實統計起來它在六都當中其實是最高的\n那可能它過去它是一個工業的城市我們發現最近這好幾起無論是化學廠或者是有大理石工廠或是其他的工廠這種爆炸然後崩落倒塌相關的其實是蠻高的那這個部分這個部長你過去也出身高雄市你自己是不是有一些觀察那你認為這個應該要怎麼樣去改善過去這樣的一個工業都市它這麼多的工廠然後它發生的比例是相對高的那要怎麼樣去改善\n高雄當然這幾年之前我是覺得它的公關發生率滿高這兩年有降下來統計起來還是相對高像這樣裡面發生這件事情我們還是覺得非常遺憾我是覺得這個很重要的就是說在相關的製造業也好營造業也好\n高風險的部分我是覺得平常可能要請地方政府這邊更針對一些相關的如何落實自主管理預防災害發生應該要再做相關的一些宣導做一些相關的宣導那另外提高這個檢查也提高檢查率研查、勤查、研法這個我想都可以對這個降低這個職災這個部長\n我在讓你看另外一個數據剛剛我們提到的是高雄的部分那如果全國看起來我們重大值在死亡的人數事實上是居高不下每一年你看這個數字幾乎都是超過300人而這當中營建業大概就是佔了一半以上\n因為他是從高空墜落所以他的死亡人數也都非常的高所以我要問一下部長我們有職安署我們也一直在宣導但是我們的這個重大職災的死亡人數其實你如果就整個統計來看並沒有\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n對啦,平均有增加營造業還是我是認為這個還非常不滿意啦但我根本報告因為可能也跟這幾年整個那個申請建造齁我們總那個總建平齁你說是因為營造業增加的關係然後而且我發現都是高樓層齁\n含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論\n你們要怎麼落實來署長你要補充你說跟大家報告清楚你這個到底要怎麼做讓他發揮真正的效果根本報告日本的公安他有一些起伏但日本營造相對比台灣好這是我們承認的所以說安全看的就是在現場\n在現場看得到那個是危險或不危險安全不安全是現場看得見而不是純粹是發手冊而已所以我們會去向檢察員到現場的時候也輔導事業單位特別營造業這邊是有護欄這邊是有高空作業要做警示要做一些判斷那顏色出一格出來就可以看到了安全\n那就還在做進一步的工作這是在現場的安全看得到現場看得見有非常清楚的標示那怎麼樣去確保現場他的安全是有到位除了標示之外有些公務員他可能應該要有一些安全的那個要拉住的但是他完全沒有扣啊或是沒有做啊像這種SOP根本就是落掉的那這種的程序上的你要怎麼去監管平常他要進到工地都要\n公安的教育訓練那是現場可能沒有落實啊那你要怎麼樣去確認現場是有落實因為每個公司都有營造的監照人員我們也都會要求監照人員一定要每天他會去尋嘛要針對他在現場施作的這些勞工、員工\n安全防護具有沒有都具備有沒有扣好本期另外一個要求除了剛剛的要求之外你們針對你們今年要全面啟動的針對營造業的這個安全看得見要怎麼去落實怎麼有效的降低這樣的一個死亡率你們應該要一個比較清楚的專案的內容跟報告好不好\n也提供給本席跟本委員會最後我要問一下消防員權益的問題消防員到底要不要適用這個勞安的條例他們的職安需不需要保障目前勞動部的態度是怎麼樣公會他們是希望可以納入這個勞安條例但是勞動部呢你們要去保障消防員的這個職業安全嗎\n那個報告委員其實這個部分我們就是在專他們消防院的專章裡面你們現在請相是回到專章沒有回到這個勞動部這邊的治安法這個就是院那邊開會齁那你們沒有跟工會溝通\n因為那個是消防署所以你們是絕不關你們的事好 我了解了所以你們完全沒有涉及這一塊就對了不是我們消防專章我們有幫忙你們有幫忙我們有幫忙那本席要求至少一件事情\n這個消防員的保障不應該低於勞工應該是等期的所以你們應該要在行政院裡面好好去反應針對消防員怎麼樣進一步去保障他們的職業安全避免過勞的事情我覺得勞動部裡面要提出最專業的意見好不好給消防弟兄就是打氣然後做為他們的後盾好不好好謝謝好謝謝王玉明\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.440 --> 00:08.709\n謝謝主席我們是請許部長請許部長\n\n00:14.181 --> 00:41.564\n王委員好部長好部長3月23號湖內嘉峰旅業工廠爆炸二死六傷這個是非常重大的一個公安事件那這麼重大的一個公安事件我看到媒體他特別提到說事實上去年12月這一家業者已經被開罰了5次請問治安署有掌握這樣的狀況嗎高雄勞工局有通報嗎\n\n00:42.725 --> 00:56.811\n他那個是廢棄物清理法的他違反的是廢棄物跟公安完全沒有關係但是他說他過去也被裁罰了高達十幾次都跟公安都沒有關係跟公安有關係好像我記得好像七次啦就是通知他改善\n\n00:57.947 --> 01:23.707\n有改善嗎?跟這次發生的原因是不一樣的嗎?那你們後來因為一家工廠這麼多次發生情況雖然是不同的情況但是對於勞動部來講對於地方的勞工局來講有把它列為是重點你們去稽查它的相關安全設施的一個對象嗎?有被列冊嗎?有特別被列管嗎?有嗎?\n\n01:24.267 --> 01:50.996\n報告委員因為它之前的違反職安的都是跟工廠設備安全沒有關係的我記得好像是教育訓練的部分跟那個所以沒有列車對不對它沒有把它列為高風險沒有但是從媒體報導它高達700度的高溫但這一次喔各位它這個是製程有一個控制系統發生問題現在瞭解是這樣但後續真正的原因要等那個這個\n\n01:53.357 --> 02:13.401\n調查報告出來但我們也認為說這個像旅住這種產業其實蠻高風險的產業它一旦發生爆炸其實影響很大所以過去你們沒有把它列為是高風險那你們現在要把這個相關的工廠列為是高風險嗎因為它既是高溫又一個不慎就爆炸而且死傷這個是這麼這麼大的一個範圍\n\n02:18.524 --> 02:35.677\n我們會針對鋁鑄造業相關的工廠為實施專案的勞檢那你們現在盤查台灣類似這樣的一個工廠鋁鑄造業有多少家分佈在哪裡?是不是多數又是在高雄?總數是473分佈我看一下\n\n02:40.889 --> 02:45.074\n女主造業243家與女相關的女主造業243家分佈在哪裡?有集中的現象嗎?比較多的是在臺南彰化\n\n03:02.449 --> 03:05.750\n那本席要求竟然有超過200多家是同樣的那他的製程過程當中可能有高溫的情況那這200多家我要要求勞動部的就是這次竟然爆發這麼重大的一個公安你們應該把這次的檢討把這些所有發生的原因要回饋給這200多家\n\n03:28.519 --> 03:31.061\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n03:46.452 --> 04:01.172\n主管、高階主管來參與那把這個案例還有可能相關的在這整個製程或者履住照可能會遇到的危險就一次的座談讓大家能夠清楚了解當然另外的勞檢這部分我們也會規劃\n\n04:02.714 --> 04:13.084\n本席要求的比較著重是你要把每一次重大的公安意外它發生的原因再回饋給這些相關的產業讓它做下一次的預防我覺得這個比開罰事後的開罰其實是更重要的因為你這樣子才能確保他們在製程過程當中大家提高那個風險意識或是相關的教育訓練做到位才不會有下一個同樣的案例再發生好不好\n\n04:29.219 --> 04:46.001\n本席要求你們回去研議之後把你們預備的做法要一份報告給本席好不好我覺得這個非常重要另外一個我要提醒的就是高雄的重大公安事件現在看起來它在製造業的公安其實統計起來它在六都當中其實是最高的\n\n04:46.522 --> 05:15.151\n那可能它過去它是一個工業的城市我們發現最近這好幾起無論是化學廠或者是有大理石工廠或是其他的工廠這種爆炸然後崩落倒塌相關的其實是蠻高的那這個部分這個部長你過去也出身高雄市你自己是不是有一些觀察那你認為這個應該要怎麼樣去改善過去這樣的一個工業都市它這麼多的工廠然後它發生的比例是相對高的那要怎麼樣去改善\n\n05:17.381 --> 05:37.640\n高雄當然這幾年之前我是覺得它的公關發生率滿高這兩年有降下來統計起來還是相對高像這樣裡面發生這件事情我們還是覺得非常遺憾我是覺得這個很重要的就是說在相關的製造業也好營造業也好\n\n05:39.301 --> 06:06.867\n高風險的部分我是覺得平常可能要請地方政府這邊更針對一些相關的如何落實自主管理預防災害發生應該要再做相關的一些宣導做一些相關的宣導那另外提高這個檢查也提高檢查率研查、勤查、研法這個我想都可以對這個降低這個職災這個部長\n\n06:08.567 --> 06:26.196\n我在讓你看另外一個數據剛剛我們提到的是高雄的部分那如果全國看起來我們重大值在死亡的人數事實上是居高不下每一年你看這個數字幾乎都是超過300人而這當中營建業大概就是佔了一半以上\n\n06:26.536 --> 06:40.872\n因為他是從高空墜落所以他的死亡人數也都非常的高所以我要問一下部長我們有職安署我們也一直在宣導但是我們的這個重大職災的死亡人數其實你如果就整個統計來看並沒有\n\n06:43.394 --> 06:53.060\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n07:10.834 --> 07:27.136\n對啦,平均有增加營造業還是我是認為這個還非常不滿意啦但我根本報告因為可能也跟這幾年整個那個申請建造齁我們總那個總建平齁你說是因為營造業增加的關係然後而且我發現都是高樓層齁\n\n07:28.217 --> 07:32.118\n含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論\n\n07:58.137 --> 08:13.653\n你們要怎麼落實來署長你要補充你說跟大家報告清楚你這個到底要怎麼做讓他發揮真正的效果根本報告日本的公安他有一些起伏但日本營造相對比台灣好這是我們承認的所以說安全看的就是在現場\n\n08:18.557 --> 08:35.309\n在現場看得到那個是危險或不危險安全不安全是現場看得見而不是純粹是發手冊而已所以我們會去向檢察員到現場的時候也輔導事業單位特別營造業這邊是有護欄這邊是有高空作業要做警示要做一些判斷那顏色出一格出來就可以看到了安全\n\n08:35.969 --> 08:59.967\n那就還在做進一步的工作這是在現場的安全看得到現場看得見有非常清楚的標示那怎麼樣去確保現場他的安全是有到位除了標示之外有些公務員他可能應該要有一些安全的那個要拉住的但是他完全沒有扣啊或是沒有做啊像這種SOP根本就是落掉的那這種的程序上的你要怎麼去監管平常他要進到工地都要\n\n09:01.008 --> 09:19.378\n公安的教育訓練那是現場可能沒有落實啊那你要怎麼樣去確認現場是有落實因為每個公司都有營造的監照人員我們也都會要求監照人員一定要每天他會去尋嘛要針對他在現場施作的這些勞工、員工\n\n09:20.919 --> 09:40.707\n安全防護具有沒有都具備有沒有扣好本期另外一個要求除了剛剛的要求之外你們針對你們今年要全面啟動的針對營造業的這個安全看得見要怎麼去落實怎麼有效的降低這樣的一個死亡率你們應該要一個比較清楚的專案的內容跟報告好不好\n\n09:41.167 --> 10:02.319\n也提供給本席跟本委員會最後我要問一下消防員權益的問題消防員到底要不要適用這個勞安的條例他們的職安需不需要保障目前勞動部的態度是怎麼樣公會他們是希望可以納入這個勞安條例但是勞動部呢你們要去保障消防員的這個職業安全嗎\n\n10:03.086 --> 10:16.639\n那個報告委員其實這個部分我們就是在專他們消防院的專章裡面你們現在請相是回到專章沒有回到這個勞動部這邊的治安法這個就是院那邊開會齁那你們沒有跟工會溝通\n\n10:19.073 --> 10:34.395\n因為那個是消防署所以你們是絕不關你們的事好我了解了所以你們完全沒有涉及這一塊就對了不是我們消防專章我們有幫忙你們有幫忙我們有幫忙那本席要求至少一件事情\n\n10:35.776 --> 10:55.566\n這個消防員的保障不應該低於勞工應該是等期的所以你們應該要在行政院裡面好好去反應針對消防員怎麼樣進一步去保障他們的職業安全避免過勞的事情我覺得勞動部裡面要提出最專業的意見好不好給消防弟兄就是打氣然後做為他們的後盾好不好好謝謝好謝謝王玉明\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.44,"end":8.709,"text":"謝謝主席我們是請許部長請許部長"},{"start":14.181,"end":41.564,"text":"王委員好部長好部長3月23號湖內嘉峰旅業工廠爆炸二死六傷這個是非常重大的一個公安事件那這麼重大的一個公安事件我看到媒體他特別提到說事實上去年12月這一家業者已經被開罰了5次請問治安署有掌握這樣的狀況嗎高雄勞工局有通報嗎"},{"start":42.725,"end":56.811,"text":"他那個是廢棄物清理法的他違反的是廢棄物跟公安完全沒有關係但是他說他過去也被裁罰了高達十幾次都跟公安都沒有關係跟公安有關係好像我記得好像七次啦就是通知他改善"},{"start":57.947,"end":83.707,"text":"有改善嗎?跟這次發生的原因是不一樣的嗎?那你們後來因為一家工廠這麼多次發生情況雖然是不同的情況但是對於勞動部來講對於地方的勞工局來講有把它列為是重點你們去稽查它的相關安全設施的一個對象嗎?有被列冊嗎?有特別被列管嗎?有嗎?"},{"start":84.267,"end":110.996,"text":"報告委員因為它之前的違反職安的都是跟工廠設備安全沒有關係的我記得好像是教育訓練的部分跟那個所以沒有列車對不對它沒有把它列為高風險沒有但是從媒體報導它高達700度的高溫但這一次喔各位它這個是製程有一個控制系統發生問題現在瞭解是這樣但後續真正的原因要等那個這個"},{"start":113.357,"end":133.401,"text":"調查報告出來但我們也認為說這個像旅住這種產業其實蠻高風險的產業它一旦發生爆炸其實影響很大所以過去你們沒有把它列為是高風險那你們現在要把這個相關的工廠列為是高風險嗎因為它既是高溫又一個不慎就爆炸而且死傷這個是這麼這麼大的一個範圍"},{"start":138.524,"end":155.677,"text":"我們會針對鋁鑄造業相關的工廠為實施專案的勞檢那你們現在盤查台灣類似這樣的一個工廠鋁鑄造業有多少家分佈在哪裡?是不是多數又是在高雄?總數是473分佈我看一下"},{"start":160.889,"end":165.074,"text":"女主造業243家與女相關的女主造業243家分佈在哪裡?有集中的現象嗎?比較多的是在臺南彰化"},{"start":182.449,"end":185.75,"text":"那本席要求竟然有超過200多家是同樣的那他的製程過程當中可能有高溫的情況那這200多家我要要求勞動部的就是這次竟然爆發這麼重大的一個公安你們應該把這次的檢討把這些所有發生的原因要回饋給這200多家"},{"start":208.519,"end":211.061,"text":"二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論"},{"start":226.452,"end":241.172,"text":"主管、高階主管來參與那把這個案例還有可能相關的在這整個製程或者履住照可能會遇到的危險就一次的座談讓大家能夠清楚了解當然另外的勞檢這部分我們也會規劃"},{"start":242.714,"end":253.084,"text":"本席要求的比較著重是你要把每一次重大的公安意外它發生的原因再回饋給這些相關的產業讓它做下一次的預防我覺得這個比開罰事後的開罰其實是更重要的因為你這樣子才能確保他們在製程過程當中大家提高那個風險意識或是相關的教育訓練做到位才不會有下一個同樣的案例再發生好不好"},{"start":269.219,"end":286.001,"text":"本席要求你們回去研議之後把你們預備的做法要一份報告給本席好不好我覺得這個非常重要另外一個我要提醒的就是高雄的重大公安事件現在看起來它在製造業的公安其實統計起來它在六都當中其實是最高的"},{"start":286.522,"end":315.151,"text":"那可能它過去它是一個工業的城市我們發現最近這好幾起無論是化學廠或者是有大理石工廠或是其他的工廠這種爆炸然後崩落倒塌相關的其實是蠻高的那這個部分這個部長你過去也出身高雄市你自己是不是有一些觀察那你認為這個應該要怎麼樣去改善過去這樣的一個工業都市它這麼多的工廠然後它發生的比例是相對高的那要怎麼樣去改善"},{"start":317.381,"end":337.64,"text":"高雄當然這幾年之前我是覺得它的公關發生率滿高這兩年有降下來統計起來還是相對高像這樣裡面發生這件事情我們還是覺得非常遺憾我是覺得這個很重要的就是說在相關的製造業也好營造業也好"},{"start":339.301,"end":366.867,"text":"高風險的部分我是覺得平常可能要請地方政府這邊更針對一些相關的如何落實自主管理預防災害發生應該要再做相關的一些宣導做一些相關的宣導那另外提高這個檢查也提高檢查率研查、勤查、研法這個我想都可以對這個降低這個職災這個部長"},{"start":368.567,"end":386.196,"text":"我在讓你看另外一個數據剛剛我們提到的是高雄的部分那如果全國看起來我們重大值在死亡的人數事實上是居高不下每一年你看這個數字幾乎都是超過300人而這當中營建業大概就是佔了一半以上"},{"start":386.536,"end":400.872,"text":"因為他是從高空墜落所以他的死亡人數也都非常的高所以我要問一下部長我們有職安署我們也一直在宣導但是我們的這個重大職災的死亡人數其實你如果就整個統計來看並沒有"},{"start":403.394,"end":413.06,"text":"二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論"},{"start":430.834,"end":447.136,"text":"對啦,平均有增加營造業還是我是認為這個還非常不滿意啦但我根本報告因為可能也跟這幾年整個那個申請建造齁我們總那個總建平齁你說是因為營造業增加的關係然後而且我發現都是高樓層齁"},{"start":448.217,"end":452.118,"text":"含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論含報告事項20案及討論"},{"start":478.137,"end":493.653,"text":"你們要怎麼落實來署長你要補充你說跟大家報告清楚你這個到底要怎麼做讓他發揮真正的效果根本報告日本的公安他有一些起伏但日本營造相對比台灣好這是我們承認的所以說安全看的就是在現場"},{"start":498.557,"end":515.309,"text":"在現場看得到那個是危險或不危險安全不安全是現場看得見而不是純粹是發手冊而已所以我們會去向檢察員到現場的時候也輔導事業單位特別營造業這邊是有護欄這邊是有高空作業要做警示要做一些判斷那顏色出一格出來就可以看到了安全"},{"start":515.969,"end":539.967,"text":"那就還在做進一步的工作這是在現場的安全看得到現場看得見有非常清楚的標示那怎麼樣去確保現場他的安全是有到位除了標示之外有些公務員他可能應該要有一些安全的那個要拉住的但是他完全沒有扣啊或是沒有做啊像這種SOP根本就是落掉的那這種的程序上的你要怎麼去監管平常他要進到工地都要"},{"start":541.008,"end":559.378,"text":"公安的教育訓練那是現場可能沒有落實啊那你要怎麼樣去確認現場是有落實因為每個公司都有營造的監照人員我們也都會要求監照人員一定要每天他會去尋嘛要針對他在現場施作的這些勞工、員工"},{"start":560.919,"end":580.707,"text":"安全防護具有沒有都具備有沒有扣好本期另外一個要求除了剛剛的要求之外你們針對你們今年要全面啟動的針對營造業的這個安全看得見要怎麼去落實怎麼有效的降低這樣的一個死亡率你們應該要一個比較清楚的專案的內容跟報告好不好"},{"start":581.167,"end":602.319,"text":"也提供給本席跟本委員會最後我要問一下消防員權益的問題消防員到底要不要適用這個勞安的條例他們的職安需不需要保障目前勞動部的態度是怎麼樣公會他們是希望可以納入這個勞安條例但是勞動部呢你們要去保障消防員的這個職業安全嗎"},{"start":603.086,"end":616.639,"text":"那個報告委員其實這個部分我們就是在專他們消防院的專章裡面你們現在請相是回到專章沒有回到這個勞動部這邊的治安法這個就是院那邊開會齁那你們沒有跟工會溝通"},{"start":619.073,"end":634.395,"text":"因為那個是消防署所以你們是絕不關你們的事好 我了解了所以你們完全沒有涉及這一塊就對了不是我們消防專章我們有幫忙你們有幫忙我們有幫忙那本席要求至少一件事情"},{"start":635.776,"end":655.566,"text":"這個消防員的保障不應該低於勞工應該是等期的所以你們應該要在行政院裡面好好去反應針對消防員怎麼樣進一步去保障他們的職業安全避免過勞的事情我覺得勞動部裡面要提出最專業的意見好不好給消防弟兄就是打氣然後做為他們的後盾好不好好謝謝好謝謝王玉明"}]}}}}