{"id":150337,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150337","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b74d072eb35bb54358506765f624e20d0f8ba9b0039caa7a6c299908bd24946c85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:31:04 - 10:43:06","影片長度":"00:12:02","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":722,"end_time":"2024-03-25T10:43:06+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T10:31:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":568,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時31分）好，謝謝。我先請我們的朱主計長。"],["主席：朱主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主計長好。這兩天大家最熱議的話題就是電價上漲，尤其是經濟部公布工業用電、民生用電的電價漲幅之後，現在百業喊漲，大家都說可能受不了。主計長，你認為在電價調漲之後，會不會有民生消費物價上漲的情形？"],["朱主計長澤民：根據經濟部的預估，電價上漲對CPI的直接影響大概是0.07%，間接影響會有0.17%，但是它的間接影響是假定全部都轉嫁上去考量，不見得會……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以電價上漲確實會造成物價上漲的壓力，否則中央銀行也不會違背整個國際趨勢，沒有降息，反而升息。"],["朱主計長澤民：因為我們的實質利率是負的，所以央行有……"],["王委員鴻薇：實質利率為什麼會是負的，就是物價上漲過高，對不對？我們來看，這兩天大家都非常擔心電價上漲，結果經濟部王美花部長喊話，警告業者不能以漲電價為由漲物價。主計長，你覺得這句話適當嗎？可能嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：我沒有聽到他講的，但是我認為他應該有一個前提，就是超過成本漲價也許是不恰當的。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你覺得如果業者反映電價上漲的成本，難免會漲物價，只是不應該用哄抬的方式，或者是找藉口隨便漲物價，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，委員說得非常對，他的原意應該是這樣子。謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：王部長當然很擔心會造成物價連動，可是恐嚇業者沒有辦法解決未來會漲價的狀況，而且你說不能漲價，我們現在也說不要漲電價、不能漲電價，請問一下，經濟部聽嗎？行政院也不聽。","另外，主計長，我再跟您請教我們最近非常關心的，電價上漲之後，對於大眾運輸業者……尤其像我們在臺北，捷運族非常多，比如臺北捷運、臺中捷運、桃捷，還有高雄捷運、臺鐵、高鐵，都因此而使它的營運成本大幅升高，所以現在地方比如說臺北市就希望能夠針對大眾運輸凍漲，因為大家希望票價不要上漲，可是業者也沒有辦法，無限度的一直一而再、再而三的提高營運成本。主計長同不同意，現在地方政府比如說臺北市政府提出，對大眾運輸應該採取凍漲的措施？"],["朱主計長澤民：北捷是由臺北市政府主管，臺鐵已經公司化，我們尊重他們的意見，中央不會干涉應該怎麼樣。但是我們對TPASS，北捷補助了33億，臺鐵也補助了13億，請他們列入考量。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以應該要給予補助？"],["朱主計長澤民：現行就有補助了。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是補助不夠啊！你現在補助，去年多了3.6億，今年要超過5億，每年電價越漲越高，現在補助完全不夠，所以如果他提出來不要補助了，你就凍漲，可不可以？"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，因為我剛才講過，我們不能干涉他漲不漲價，但是據我瞭解，電價上漲大概是占他們成本的大概1%。"],["王委員鴻薇：不止啦！"],["朱主計長澤民：差不多。"],["王委員鴻薇：百分之十幾，所以待會我到交通委員會，我也會幫臺北市捷運來請命。時間暫停，主計長請回，我找金管會主委。"],["主席：金管會黃主委。"],["王委員鴻薇：NCC翁副主委。"],["主席：翁副主委。"],["王委員鴻薇：數發部。"],["主席：數發部李政次。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委、次長還有副主委早。今天的報告都說我們的行動綱領1.0版自執行以來初見成效，成效在哪裡？成效其實是可以數字化的，我們來看一下，雖然我們成立了國家打詐隊，但是我們可以看到這7年來詐騙案或詐騙的金額都是連年的升高，一直在創紀錄，所以一方面你們說初見打詐成效，但是打詐成效回饋給你的卻是詐騙案無論案件數跟金額都在創新高，尤其在整個打詐過程中，我們的檢察官曾經召開過類似公聽會的會議，一線的檢察官曾經針對詐騙，提到有三大戰犯，包括金管會，他們說人頭戶欠缺管理，然後NCC對於電信的境外門號管理不佳，數位部對第三方支付也欠缺管理，第一線檢察官用具名的方式直接點名三大戰犯。你們今天的報告有針對這些提出一些你們所執行跟落實的相關政策，我想請問金管會、NCC和數發部，第一季馬上就要結束了，因為現在已經3月了，你們能不能保證在今年第一季，詐騙案件也好，詐騙金額也好，可以看到顯著的下降？你們有沒有這樣的信心可以保證？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想基層檢察官的指教，我們虛心受教，我們也不斷在改進，第一季最重要的就是灰名單，還有告誡戶的上線。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，我知道你們上線了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我認為應該會有效果，但是我想我不太適合去代表打詐平臺表示意見。"],["王委員鴻薇：至少你們在人頭戶的部分，我看到你們做了一些事情。"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：委員好。我們就針對國際來話的攔阻跟警示有成效，因為詐騙集團的手法不斷演變。"],["王委員鴻薇：擔心！我待會就要告訴你，新手法又出來了。"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：對，所以我們會結合電信公司在這邊持續精進，有關於國際漫遊的黑莓卡，我們上個禮拜有跟電信公司達成協議，技術上可以去驗證，我想接下來會推出一系列的方法。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以黑莓卡可以驗證？"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：可以，委員問到重點了。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，數發部來。"],["李次長懷仁：跟委員報告，之前劍青改講第三方支付管理的部分，現在第三方管理支付的措施就是跟劍青改還有檢方一起討論出來的管理措施，所以第三方支付的管理，應該很明顯的有下降。另外，遊戲點數跟電商的部分，在報告上也明顯的有下降。"],["王委員鴻薇：我看到你們在遊戲點數要做管理，對不對？"],["李次長懷仁：也明顯的下降，已經降到80件左右。"],["王委員鴻薇：我希望不要等到過一、兩個月再去檢視的時候，發現第一季根本沒有下降的跡象，這點非常重要，而且我們不應該只追在這些詐騙集團的後面補破網而已。","好，我在這邊也特別提出來，這些詐騙集團手法推陳出新，我給幾位看一下，現在在網路上出現一些廣告，告訴你要怎麼樣來防詐，教你怎麼樣去補救，把騙的錢騙回來，說：「你被網路詐騙過了嗎？揭露他們是我們的專長，我們幫你追回來。」結果這些全部都是詐騙集團做的。所以真的是防不勝防啊！我們過去看到很多的態樣。時間暫停一下，法務部今天有來嗎？法務部是誰？"],["主席：法務部黃謀信常次。"],["王委員鴻薇：次長，必須要講，這些詐騙集團食髓知味，惡劣的地方在於他們還在騙被騙過的人，就是很多人已經都被他們騙過了，結果他們還要一騙再騙，所以像這樣的方式、這樣的手法一定要嚴辦，可不可以？"],["黃次長謀信：報告委員，這個沒問題，這是檢察官的天職。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，我希望以後我們不會再看到這種「明明你已經是騙過人了，還要一騙再騙」。另外就是他們談到怎麼樣追回被騙的錢，我也要特別提出，因為在全世界確實都有感於國際詐騙真的越來越多，所以追回部分或全部的損失也變成很重要，除了防堵之外，在被騙之後要追回，以世界各國來說，這個比例，就跟我們鄰近幾個國家相比，臺灣是最低的，所以我想請法務部去研究一下，因為這個是世界防詐組織所做的一個統計，我希望法務部去研究一下，為什麼日本可以追回將近三成，當然也沒有到三成，但是我們臺灣最低，才13.9%，是不是在法令上或者在行政相關措施上有所不足？我們應該把它補強，至少可以追回一部分損失的金額，減少受害人的損失，可不可以？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，事實上我們現行法上的確就有相關犯罪所得追還的機制，也許不足，但是我們會在打詐專法裡面去設計相關條文，看怎麼樣制度上設計，讓犯罪贓款的返還更容易，我們把相關的法律工具具備。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以我現在會給你們一些時間，我覺得至少在跟世界各國比較的時候，除了要防詐、打詐，其實被騙的人最希望的是能把錢多拿回來一些，這個是最重要的，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請黃珊珊委員質詢。","等一下王世堅委員質詢完畢休息，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":298,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-5","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","顏寬恒","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","謝衣鳯","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","洪孟楷","羅智強","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","林思銘","王美惠","陳冠廷","黃健豪","葉元之","陳玉珍"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-03-25"],"gazette_id":"1132001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132001_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員\n會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」預算執行情形及成\n效進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132001_00018"}},"transcript":{"id":"150337","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150337","tool":"pyannote","id":"150337-pyannote"},"job_id":"U9LliZq7lWi8Bqzp","queued_at":"2024-06-01 20:57:02","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 20:58:43","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150337"},{"time":"2024-06-01 20:58:44","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b74d072eb35bb54358506765f624e20d05b646ccc3a7275a6fc62b3fb7bc74c515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 20:59:04","msg":"converting mp4 to 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\"來我們來看喔因為這兩天大家都非常擔心電價上漲結果呢我們經濟部長王美花王部長喊話說警告業者不能以漲電價為由來漲物價\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 91.263, \"end\": 91.583, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 91.583, \"end\": 91.823, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 91.823, \"end\": 92.404, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 92.404, \"end\": 92.965, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 92.965, \"end\": 93.166, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 93.166, \"end\": 93.186, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 93.186, \"end\": 93.406, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 93.406, \"end\": 93.586, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 93.586, \"end\": 93.706, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 93.706, \"end\": 94.107, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 94.107, \"end\": 94.768, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 94.768, \"end\": 95.729, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 95.729, \"end\": 95.87, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 95.87, \"end\": 96.01, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 96.01, \"end\": 96.591, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 96.591, \"end\": 97.332, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 97.332, \"end\": 97.492, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 97.492, \"end\": 97.672, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 97.672, \"end\": 97.853, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 97.853, \"end\": 97.993, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 97.993, \"end\": 98.273, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"喊\", \"start\": 98.273, \"end\": 99.455, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"警\", \"start\": 99.455, \"end\": 99.695, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 99.695, \"end\": 100.156, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 100.156, \"end\": 100.757, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 100.757, \"end\": 100.897, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 100.897, \"end\": 101.118, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 101.118, \"end\": 101.158, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 101.158, \"end\": 101.378, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 101.378, \"end\": 101.398, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"價\"}]}, {\"start\": 105.539, \"end\": 122.215, \"text\": \"主計長你覺得這句話適當嗎?這個我沒有聽到他講的但是我認為說他應該有個前提是不當的這個是怎麼漲價到超過成本的漲價也許是不恰當的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 105.539, \"end\": 106.08, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 106.08, \"end\": 106.38, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 106.38, \"end\": 106.58, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"句\", \"start\": 106.58, \"end\": 110.444, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"適\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 110.444, \"end\": 110.584, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 110.584, \"end\": 110.744, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 110.744, \"end\": 111.485, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 111.485, \"end\": 111.645, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 111.645, \"end\": 111.885, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 111.885, \"end\": 112.106, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 112.106, \"end\": 112.326, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 112.326, 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{\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 119.072, \"end\": 119.353, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 119.353, \"end\": 119.853, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 119.853, \"end\": 120.093, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 120.093, \"end\": 120.234, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 120.234, \"end\": 121.014, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 121.014, \"end\": 121.335, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 121.335, \"end\": 121.615, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 121.615, \"end\": 121.835, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 121.835, \"end\": 121.995, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"恰\", \"start\": 121.995, \"end\": 122.195, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 122.195, \"end\": 122.215, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 122.836, \"end\": 137.756, \"text\": \"所以你覺得說如果業者去反映他的店家上漲的成本 這難免會有漲物價只是說不應該是用烘台的方式 或者是找一個藉口就隨便漲物價 對不對對 林委員說得非常對 他應該原意是這樣子 謝謝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 122.836, \"end\": 123.016, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 123.016, \"end\": 123.237, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 123.237, \"end\": 123.697, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 123.697, \"end\": 124.138, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 124.138, \"end\": 124.338, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 124.338, \"end\": 124.919, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 124.919, \"end\": 125.119, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 125.119, \"end\": 125.42, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 125.42, \"end\": 125.58, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"映\", \"start\": 125.58, \"end\": 125.76, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 125.76, \"end\": 125.96, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 125.96, \"end\": 126.1, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"店\", \"start\": 126.1, \"end\": 126.261, \"score\": 0.65}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 126.261, \"end\": 126.481, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 126.481, \"end\": 126.821, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 126.821, \"end\": 126.962, \"score\": 0.574}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 126.962, \"end\": 127.242, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 127.242, \"end\": 128.303, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 128.303, \"end\": 128.604, \"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 128.604, \"end\": 128.984, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 128.984, \"end\": 129.685, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 129.685, \"end\": 130.026, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 130.026, \"end\": 130.306, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", 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\"個\"}, {\"word\": \"藉\", \"start\": 134.752, \"end\": 134.972, \"score\": 0.635}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 134.972, \"end\": 135.173, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 135.173, \"end\": 135.473, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"隨\"}, {\"word\": \"便\", \"start\": 135.473, \"end\": 135.834, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 135.834, \"end\": 136.354, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 136.354, \"end\": 136.875, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 136.875, \"end\": 137.155, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 137.155, \"end\": 137.275, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 137.275, \"end\": 137.396, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 137.396, \"end\": 137.416, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 137.416, \"end\": 137.456, \"score\": 0.464}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 137.456, \"end\": 137.596, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 137.596, \"end\": 137.696, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 137.696, \"end\": 137.716, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 137.716, \"end\": 137.736, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 137.736, \"end\": 137.756, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}]}, {\"start\": 140.72, \"end\": 165.314, \"text\": \"所以我覺得王部長他當然很擔心說這個會造成物價的連動可是恐嚇業者沒有辦法解決未來會漲價的一個狀況而且你說不能漲價那我們現在也說不要漲電價啊不能漲電價那請問一下經濟部聽嗎?行政院也不聽啊另外主計長我再跟您請教我們最近非常關心的就是上漲電價之後呢對於大眾運輸業者\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 140.72, \"end\": 140.78, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 140.78, \"end\": 140.88, \"score\": 0.671}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 140.88, \"end\": 141.16, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 141.16, \"end\": 141.48, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": 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00:01:28,820\n所以電價上漲確實會造成物價上漲的一個壓力否則的話中央銀行也不會違背整個國際的這個趨勢反而就是沒有降息反而升息跟那個委員報告一下因為那個我們的利率事實上是實質利率是負的所以央行有那個實質利率為什麼會是負的呢就是物價上漲的過高嘛對不對\n\n5\n00:01:31,263 --> 00:01:41,398\n來我們來看喔因為這兩天大家都非常擔心電價上漲結果呢我們經濟部長王美花王部長喊話說警告業者不能以漲電價為由來漲物價\n\n6\n00:01:45,539 --> 00:02:02,215\n主計長你覺得這句話適當嗎?這個我沒有聽到他講的但是我認為說他應該有個前提是不當的這個是怎麼漲價到超過成本的漲價也許是不恰當的\n\n7\n00:02:02,836 --> 00:02:17,756\n所以你覺得說如果業者去反映他的店家上漲的成本這難免會有漲物價只是說不應該是用烘台的方式或者是找一個藉口就隨便漲物價對不對對林委員說得非常對他應該原意是這樣子謝謝\n\n8\n00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:45,314\n所以我覺得王部長他當然很擔心說這個會造成物價的連動可是恐嚇業者沒有辦法解決未來會漲價的一個狀況而且你說不能漲價那我們現在也說不要漲電價啊不能漲電價那請問一下經濟部聽嗎?行政院也不聽啊另外主計長我再跟您請教我們最近非常關心的就是上漲電價之後呢對於大眾運輸業者\n\n9\n00:02:49,156 --> 00:03:08,220\n尤其像我們在台北我們的捷運出非常非常多比如說我們台北捷運、台中捷運、桃捷還有高雄捷運、台鐵、高鐵事實上都因此而使它的營運成本大幅的升高所以現在地方比如說以台北市就希望能夠針對大眾運輸能夠動漲\n\n10\n00:03:11,681 --> 00:03:12,602\n北捷島他是那個\n\n11\n00:03:36,924 --> 00:03:37,724\n所以應該要給予補助\n\n12\n00:04:06,218 --> 00:04:33,757\n現行就有補助了他補助不夠啊你現在補助現在他去年多了3.6億吧今年要超過5億因為每年電價越漲越高那你現在補助完全不夠所以他提出來你也不要給我補助了你就動漲可不可以跟那個委員報告一下因為我剛才講過他們我們不能干涉他說他漲不漲價但是據我了解到他們的電價上漲的話大概是佔他們成本大概1%\n\n13\n00:04:35,718 --> 00:04:58,844\n不只啦,百分之十三、百分之十幾所以基本上這個待會我到交通委員會我也會幫臺北市捷運來請命好,時間暫停,我想主計長可以請回我找金管會主委、NCC、翁副主委、數發部李政次委員長\n\n14\n00:05:09,627 --> 00:05:25,383\n我們今天的報告都說我們的行動綱領1.0版自執行以來初見成效成效在哪裡?成效其實是可以用數字化的我們來看一下雖然我們成立了國家打詐隊\n\n15\n00:05:26,664 --> 00:05:48,634\n但是呢可以看到這7年來詐騙案也好或詐騙的金額也好是連年的在升高一直在創紀錄所以一方面我們說我們有出件打詐成效但是打詐成效回饋給你的缺失打騙案也好案件數跟金額都在創新高\n\n16\n00:05:49,514 --> 00:06:11,183\n尤其事實上在我們整個的打架過程裡面我們的檢察官他們曾經召開過這個類似公聽會那麼在我們一線的檢察官曾經針對詐騙提到有三大戰犯三大戰犯呢就是\n\n17\n00:06:12,691 --> 00:06:37,603\n包括我們經管會他說人頭戶欠缺管理然後NCC對於電信的境外門號管理不佳然後數位部對第三方支付也是欠缺管理所以在第一線檢察官他們用具名的方式直接點名三大戰犯但我也看到你們今天的報告有針對這些你們提出一些你們所這個\n\n18\n00:06:39,664 --> 00:07:03,351\n執行跟落實的相關的政策所以我想請問主委我想請問NCC和訴發部你們能不能保證你們能不能保證第一季馬上就要結束了因為現在已經3月了在今年第一季我們的詐騙案也好詐騙金額也好可以看到顯著的下降你們有沒有這樣的信心可以保證\n\n19\n00:07:05,305 --> 00:07:23,777\n我想基層檢察官的指教我們虛心受教那我們也不斷在改進那第一季最重要的就是揮名單還有那個告誡戶的上線對我知道你們上線了我認為應該會有效果但是我想我不太適合去代表打詐平台去表示意見\n\n20\n00:07:24,748 --> 00:07:47,590\n至少你們人頭戶的部分我看到你們做了一些事情來來我時間有限來我們現在是委員好那個我們就針對國際贏得來的話這邊的話有攔阻跟警示這個有成效那我們因為這個詐騙集團他的手法不斷的演變我待會就要告訴你新手法又出來了所以說我們會結合電信公司啊\n\n21\n00:07:48,030 --> 00:08:06,367\n在這一邊持續精進有關於國際漫遊的黑美卡我們上個禮拜有跟電信公司已經達成上技術上面可以去驗證我想接下來會推出一系列的方法所以黑美卡可以驗證可以委員問到重點是好那這個部分來NCC那個書房\n\n22\n00:08:08,024 --> 00:08:09,465\n我看到你們在遊戲點數要做管理,對不對?\n\n23\n00:08:31,300 --> 00:08:59,800\n我希望不要等到我們過一兩個月之後再來去檢視的時候發現我們第一季根本沒有下降的跡象這點非常重要而且我們不應該追在這些詐騙集團的後面在那邊捕破網而已我在這邊也特別提出來這些詐騙集團手法推陳出新我給幾位看一下現在在網路上出現的一些就是告訴你你要怎麼樣\n\n24\n00:09:01,361 --> 00:09:23,693\n來防詐,然後教你怎麼樣去補救,把騙的錢騙回來,說你被網路詐騙過了嗎?揭露他們是我們的專長啊,我們幫你追回來啊。結果這些全部都是詐騙集團。所以真的是防不勝防啊,我們過去看到很多的太陽。所以我在這邊齁,來時間暫停一下,法務部今天有來嗎?來,法務部是誰啊?來,市長。\n\n25\n00:09:33,203 --> 00:09:54,913\n所以次長必須要講這些詐騙集團實隨之謂這個惡劣是在哪就是你還在騙被騙過的人就是很多人就是你已經經過人都被騙過了你還要再騙一騙再騙所以像這樣的方式這樣的手法一定要嚴辦可不可以\n\n26\n00:09:55,873 --> 00:10:24,079\n報告委員,這個沒問題,這檢察官的天職好,我希望以後我們再看到的沒有這種明明你已經是騙過人還要再一騙再騙另外一部分就是他們談到就是說你怎麼樣追回你被騙的這些錢那我也要特別提出因為在全世界確實都有感於這個國際詐騙真的是越來越多所以呢追回部分或者全部的損失也變成很重要的除了防堵之外在\n\n27\n00:10:24,739 --> 00:10:42,813\n拜遍之後你要追回如果你看世界各國來說這個比例啊就是跟我們鄰近這幾個國家台灣是最低的台灣是最低的所以我想請法務部去研究一下因為這個是世界防詐組織他們所做的這樣的一個\n\n28\n00:10:46,016 --> 00:11:08,708\n我希望法務部去研究一下為什麼日本可以追回將近三成他當然也沒有到三成啦但是我們台灣最低13.9%所以是不是在法令上或者是在我們這些行政相關的就是這些措施上有沒有有所不足然後我們去把它補強\n\n29\n00:11:10,049 --> 00:11:28,739\n至少我們可以去追回一部分損失的金額減少我們這些受害人的損失可不可以?公文報告那事實上我們憲情法上的確就有相關犯罪所得追還的機制的但是也許不足那我們在打詐專法打詐專法裡面我們會去設計相關條文看怎麼制度上設計這樣\n\n30\n00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:30,120\n謝謝,請回\n\n31\n00:11:59,468 --> 00:11:59,951\n下一位質詢請黃珊珊\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t570\t主席\n12711\t39220\t主席好,主席長這兩天大家最熱議的話題就是電價上漲那尤其是在經濟部公布了包含工業用電、民生用電的電價漲幅之後那麼現在呢百頁含漲大家都說可能受不了所以主席長你認為在電價調漲之後那麼會不會有這個民生消費物價上漲的情形\n39619\t39879\t所以﹖\n61878\t88820\t所以電價上漲確實會造成物價上漲的一個壓力否則的話中央銀行也不會違背整個國際的這個趨勢反而就是沒有降息反而升息跟那個委員報告一下因為那個我們的利率事實上是實質利率是負的所以央行有那個實質利率為什麼會是負的呢就是物價上漲的過高嘛對不對\n91263\t101398\t來我們來看喔因為這兩天大家都非常擔心電價上漲結果呢我們經濟部長王美花王部長喊話說警告業者不能以漲電價為由來漲物價\n105539\t122215\t主計長你覺得這句話適當嗎?這個我沒有聽到他講的但是我認為說他應該有個前提是不當的這個是怎麼漲價到超過成本的漲價也許是不恰當的\n122836\t137756\t所以你覺得說如果業者去反映他的店家上漲的成本 這難免會有漲物價只是說不應該是用烘台的方式 或者是找一個藉口就隨便漲物價 對不對對 林委員說得非常對 他應該原意是這樣子 謝謝\n140720\t165314\t所以我覺得王部長他當然很擔心說這個會造成物價的連動可是恐嚇業者沒有辦法解決未來會漲價的一個狀況而且你說不能漲價那我們現在也說不要漲電價啊不能漲電價那請問一下經濟部聽嗎?行政院也不聽啊另外主計長我再跟您請教我們最近非常關心的就是上漲電價之後呢對於大眾運輸業者\n169156\t188220\t尤其像我們在台北我們的捷運出非常非常多比如說我們台北捷運、台中捷運、桃捷還有高雄捷運、台鐵、高鐵事實上都因此而使它的營運成本大幅的升高所以現在地方比如說以台北市就希望能夠針對大眾運輸能夠動漲\n191681\t192602\t北捷島他是那個\n216924\t217724\t所以應該要給予補助\n246218\t273757\t現行就有補助了他補助不夠啊你現在補助現在他去年多了3.6億吧今年要超過5億因為每年電價越漲越高那你現在補助完全不夠所以他提出來你也不要給我補助了你就動漲可不可以跟那個委員報告一下因為我剛才講過他們我們不能干涉他說他漲不漲價但是據我了解到他們的電價上漲的話大概是佔他們成本大概1%\n275718\t298844\t不只啦,百分之十三、百分之十幾所以基本上這個待會我到交通委員會我也會幫臺北市捷運來請命好,時間暫停,我想主計長可以請回我找金管會主委、NCC、翁副主委、數發部李政次委員長\n309627\t325383\t我們今天的報告都說我們的行動綱領1.0版自執行以來初見成效成效在哪裡?成效其實是可以用數字化的我們來看一下雖然我們成立了國家打詐隊\n326664\t348634\t但是呢可以看到這7年來詐騙案也好或詐騙的金額也好是連年的在升高一直在創紀錄所以一方面我們說我們有出件打詐成效但是打詐成效回饋給你的缺失打騙案也好案件數跟金額都在創新高\n349514\t371183\t尤其事實上在我們整個的打架過程裡面我們的檢察官他們曾經召開過這個類似公聽會那麼在我們一線的檢察官曾經針對詐騙提到有三大戰犯三大戰犯呢就是\n372691\t397603\t包括我們經管會他說人頭戶欠缺管理然後NCC對於電信的境外門號管理不佳然後數位部對第三方支付也是欠缺管理所以在第一線檢察官他們用具名的方式直接點名三大戰犯但我也看到你們今天的報告有針對這些你們提出一些你們所這個\n399664\t423351\t執行跟落實的相關的政策所以我想請問主委我想請問NCC和訴發部你們能不能保證你們能不能保證第一季馬上就要結束了因為現在已經3月了在今年第一季我們的詐騙案也好詐騙金額也好可以看到顯著的下降你們有沒有這樣的信心可以保證\n425305\t443777\t我想基層檢察官的指教我們虛心受教那我們也不斷在改進那第一季最重要的就是揮名單還有那個告誡戶的上線對我知道你們上線了我認為應該會有效果但是我想我不太適合去代表打詐平台去表示意見\n444748\t467590\t至少你們人頭戶的部分我看到你們做了一些事情來來我時間有限來我們現在是委員好那個我們就針對國際贏得來的話這邊的話有攔阻跟警示這個有成效那我們因為這個詐騙集團他的手法不斷的演變我待會就要告訴你新手法又出來了所以說我們會結合電信公司啊\n468030\t486367\t在這一邊持續精進有關於國際漫遊的黑美卡我們上個禮拜有跟電信公司已經達成上技術上面可以去驗證我想接下來會推出一系列的方法所以黑美卡可以驗證可以委員問到重點是好那這個部分來NCC那個書房\n488024\t489465\t我看到你們在遊戲點數要做管理,對不對?\n511300\t539800\t我希望不要等到我們過一兩個月之後再來去檢視的時候發現我們第一季根本沒有下降的跡象這點非常重要而且我們不應該追在這些詐騙集團的後面在那邊捕破網而已我在這邊也特別提出來這些詐騙集團手法推陳出新我給幾位看一下現在在網路上出現的一些就是告訴你你要怎麼樣\n541361\t563693\t來防詐,然後教你怎麼樣去補救,把騙的錢騙回來,說你被網路詐騙過了嗎?揭露他們是我們的專長啊,我們幫你追回來啊。結果這些全部都是詐騙集團。所以真的是防不勝防啊,我們過去看到很多的太陽。所以我在這邊齁,來時間暫停一下,法務部今天有來嗎?來,法務部是誰啊?來,市長。\n573203\t594913\t所以次長必須要講這些詐騙集團實隨之謂這個惡劣是在哪就是你還在騙被騙過的人就是很多人就是你已經經過人都被騙過了你還要再騙一騙再騙所以像這樣的方式這樣的手法一定要嚴辦可不可以\n595873\t624079\t報告委員,這個沒問題,這檢察官的天職好,我希望以後我們再看到的沒有這種明明你已經是騙過人還要再一騙再騙另外一部分就是他們談到就是說你怎麼樣追回你被騙的這些錢那我也要特別提出因為在全世界確實都有感於這個國際詐騙真的是越來越多所以呢追回部分或者全部的損失也變成很重要的除了防堵之外在\n624739\t642813\t拜遍之後你要追回如果你看世界各國來說這個比例啊就是跟我們鄰近這幾個國家台灣是最低的台灣是最低的所以我想請法務部去研究一下因為這個是世界防詐組織他們所做的這樣的一個\n646016\t668708\t我希望法務部去研究一下為什麼日本可以追回將近三成他當然也沒有到三成啦但是我們台灣最低13.9%所以是不是在法令上或者是在我們這些行政相關的就是這些措施上有沒有有所不足然後我們去把它補強\n670049\t688739\t至少我們可以去追回一部分損失的金額減少我們這些受害人的損失可不可以?公文報告那事實上我們憲情法上的確就有相關犯罪所得追還的機制的但是也許不足那我們在打詐專法打詐專法裡面我們會去設計相關條文看怎麼制度上設計這樣\n690100\t690120\t謝謝,請回\n719468\t719951\t下一位質詢請黃珊珊\n","txt":"主席\n主席好,主席長這兩天大家最熱議的話題就是電價上漲那尤其是在經濟部公布了包含工業用電、民生用電的電價漲幅之後那麼現在呢百頁含漲大家都說可能受不了所以主席長你認為在電價調漲之後那麼會不會有這個民生消費物價上漲的情形\n所以﹖\n所以電價上漲確實會造成物價上漲的一個壓力否則的話中央銀行也不會違背整個國際的這個趨勢反而就是沒有降息反而升息跟那個委員報告一下因為那個我們的利率事實上是實質利率是負的所以央行有那個實質利率為什麼會是負的呢就是物價上漲的過高嘛對不對\n來我們來看喔因為這兩天大家都非常擔心電價上漲結果呢我們經濟部長王美花王部長喊話說警告業者不能以漲電價為由來漲物價\n主計長你覺得這句話適當嗎?這個我沒有聽到他講的但是我認為說他應該有個前提是不當的這個是怎麼漲價到超過成本的漲價也許是不恰當的\n所以你覺得說如果業者去反映他的店家上漲的成本 這難免會有漲物價只是說不應該是用烘台的方式 或者是找一個藉口就隨便漲物價 對不對對 林委員說得非常對 他應該原意是這樣子 謝謝\n所以我覺得王部長他當然很擔心說這個會造成物價的連動可是恐嚇業者沒有辦法解決未來會漲價的一個狀況而且你說不能漲價那我們現在也說不要漲電價啊不能漲電價那請問一下經濟部聽嗎?行政院也不聽啊另外主計長我再跟您請教我們最近非常關心的就是上漲電價之後呢對於大眾運輸業者\n尤其像我們在台北我們的捷運出非常非常多比如說我們台北捷運、台中捷運、桃捷還有高雄捷運、台鐵、高鐵事實上都因此而使它的營運成本大幅的升高所以現在地方比如說以台北市就希望能夠針對大眾運輸能夠動漲\n北捷島他是那個\n所以應該要給予補助\n現行就有補助了他補助不夠啊你現在補助現在他去年多了3.6億吧今年要超過5億因為每年電價越漲越高那你現在補助完全不夠所以他提出來你也不要給我補助了你就動漲可不可以跟那個委員報告一下因為我剛才講過他們我們不能干涉他說他漲不漲價但是據我了解到他們的電價上漲的話大概是佔他們成本大概1%\n不只啦,百分之十三、百分之十幾所以基本上這個待會我到交通委員會我也會幫臺北市捷運來請命好,時間暫停,我想主計長可以請回我找金管會主委、NCC、翁副主委、數發部李政次委員長\n我們今天的報告都說我們的行動綱領1.0版自執行以來初見成效成效在哪裡?成效其實是可以用數字化的我們來看一下雖然我們成立了國家打詐隊\n但是呢可以看到這7年來詐騙案也好或詐騙的金額也好是連年的在升高一直在創紀錄所以一方面我們說我們有出件打詐成效但是打詐成效回饋給你的缺失打騙案也好案件數跟金額都在創新高\n尤其事實上在我們整個的打架過程裡面我們的檢察官他們曾經召開過這個類似公聽會那麼在我們一線的檢察官曾經針對詐騙提到有三大戰犯三大戰犯呢就是\n包括我們經管會他說人頭戶欠缺管理然後NCC對於電信的境外門號管理不佳然後數位部對第三方支付也是欠缺管理所以在第一線檢察官他們用具名的方式直接點名三大戰犯但我也看到你們今天的報告有針對這些你們提出一些你們所這個\n執行跟落實的相關的政策所以我想請問主委我想請問NCC和訴發部你們能不能保證你們能不能保證第一季馬上就要結束了因為現在已經3月了在今年第一季我們的詐騙案也好詐騙金額也好可以看到顯著的下降你們有沒有這樣的信心可以保證\n我想基層檢察官的指教我們虛心受教那我們也不斷在改進那第一季最重要的就是揮名單還有那個告誡戶的上線對我知道你們上線了我認為應該會有效果但是我想我不太適合去代表打詐平台去表示意見\n至少你們人頭戶的部分我看到你們做了一些事情來來我時間有限來我們現在是委員好那個我們就針對國際贏得來的話這邊的話有攔阻跟警示這個有成效那我們因為這個詐騙集團他的手法不斷的演變我待會就要告訴你新手法又出來了所以說我們會結合電信公司啊\n在這一邊持續精進有關於國際漫遊的黑美卡我們上個禮拜有跟電信公司已經達成上技術上面可以去驗證我想接下來會推出一系列的方法所以黑美卡可以驗證可以委員問到重點是好那這個部分來NCC那個書房\n我看到你們在遊戲點數要做管理,對不對?\n我希望不要等到我們過一兩個月之後再來去檢視的時候發現我們第一季根本沒有下降的跡象這點非常重要而且我們不應該追在這些詐騙集團的後面在那邊捕破網而已我在這邊也特別提出來這些詐騙集團手法推陳出新我給幾位看一下現在在網路上出現的一些就是告訴你你要怎麼樣\n來防詐,然後教你怎麼樣去補救,把騙的錢騙回來,說你被網路詐騙過了嗎?揭露他們是我們的專長啊,我們幫你追回來啊。結果這些全部都是詐騙集團。所以真的是防不勝防啊,我們過去看到很多的太陽。所以我在這邊齁,來時間暫停一下,法務部今天有來嗎?來,法務部是誰啊?來,市長。\n所以次長必須要講這些詐騙集團實隨之謂這個惡劣是在哪就是你還在騙被騙過的人就是很多人就是你已經經過人都被騙過了你還要再騙一騙再騙所以像這樣的方式這樣的手法一定要嚴辦可不可以\n報告委員,這個沒問題,這檢察官的天職好,我希望以後我們再看到的沒有這種明明你已經是騙過人還要再一騙再騙另外一部分就是他們談到就是說你怎麼樣追回你被騙的這些錢那我也要特別提出因為在全世界確實都有感於這個國際詐騙真的是越來越多所以呢追回部分或者全部的損失也變成很重要的除了防堵之外在\n拜遍之後你要追回如果你看世界各國來說這個比例啊就是跟我們鄰近這幾個國家台灣是最低的台灣是最低的所以我想請法務部去研究一下因為這個是世界防詐組織他們所做的這樣的一個\n我希望法務部去研究一下為什麼日本可以追回將近三成他當然也沒有到三成啦但是我們台灣最低13.9%所以是不是在法令上或者是在我們這些行政相關的就是這些措施上有沒有有所不足然後我們去把它補強\n至少我們可以去追回一部分損失的金額減少我們這些受害人的損失可不可以?公文報告那事實上我們憲情法上的確就有相關犯罪所得追還的機制的但是也許不足那我們在打詐專法打詐專法裡面我們會去設計相關條文看怎麼制度上設計這樣\n謝謝,請回\n下一位質詢請黃珊珊\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:00.570\n主席\n\n00:12.711 --> 00:39.220\n主席好,主席長這兩天大家最熱議的話題就是電價上漲那尤其是在經濟部公布了包含工業用電、民生用電的電價漲幅之後那麼現在呢百頁含漲大家都說可能受不了所以主席長你認為在電價調漲之後那麼會不會有這個民生消費物價上漲的情形\n\n00:39.619 --> 00:39.879\n所以﹖\n\n01:01.878 --> 01:28.820\n所以電價上漲確實會造成物價上漲的一個壓力否則的話中央銀行也不會違背整個國際的這個趨勢反而就是沒有降息反而升息跟那個委員報告一下因為那個我們的利率事實上是實質利率是負的所以央行有那個實質利率為什麼會是負的呢就是物價上漲的過高嘛對不對\n\n01:31.263 --> 01:41.398\n來我們來看喔因為這兩天大家都非常擔心電價上漲結果呢我們經濟部長王美花王部長喊話說警告業者不能以漲電價為由來漲物價\n\n01:45.539 --> 02:02.215\n主計長你覺得這句話適當嗎?這個我沒有聽到他講的但是我認為說他應該有個前提是不當的這個是怎麼漲價到超過成本的漲價也許是不恰當的\n\n02:02.836 --> 02:17.756\n所以你覺得說如果業者去反映他的店家上漲的成本這難免會有漲物價只是說不應該是用烘台的方式或者是找一個藉口就隨便漲物價對不對對林委員說得非常對他應該原意是這樣子謝謝\n\n02:20.720 --> 02:45.314\n所以我覺得王部長他當然很擔心說這個會造成物價的連動可是恐嚇業者沒有辦法解決未來會漲價的一個狀況而且你說不能漲價那我們現在也說不要漲電價啊不能漲電價那請問一下經濟部聽嗎?行政院也不聽啊另外主計長我再跟您請教我們最近非常關心的就是上漲電價之後呢對於大眾運輸業者\n\n02:49.156 --> 03:08.220\n尤其像我們在台北我們的捷運出非常非常多比如說我們台北捷運、台中捷運、桃捷還有高雄捷運、台鐵、高鐵事實上都因此而使它的營運成本大幅的升高所以現在地方比如說以台北市就希望能夠針對大眾運輸能夠動漲\n\n03:11.681 --> 03:12.602\n北捷島他是那個\n\n03:36.924 --> 03:37.724\n所以應該要給予補助\n\n04:06.218 --> 04:33.757\n現行就有補助了他補助不夠啊你現在補助現在他去年多了3.6億吧今年要超過5億因為每年電價越漲越高那你現在補助完全不夠所以他提出來你也不要給我補助了你就動漲可不可以跟那個委員報告一下因為我剛才講過他們我們不能干涉他說他漲不漲價但是據我了解到他們的電價上漲的話大概是佔他們成本大概1%\n\n04:35.718 --> 04:58.844\n不只啦,百分之十三、百分之十幾所以基本上這個待會我到交通委員會我也會幫臺北市捷運來請命好,時間暫停,我想主計長可以請回我找金管會主委、NCC、翁副主委、數發部李政次委員長\n\n05:09.627 --> 05:25.383\n我們今天的報告都說我們的行動綱領1.0版自執行以來初見成效成效在哪裡?成效其實是可以用數字化的我們來看一下雖然我們成立了國家打詐隊\n\n05:26.664 --> 05:48.634\n但是呢可以看到這7年來詐騙案也好或詐騙的金額也好是連年的在升高一直在創紀錄所以一方面我們說我們有出件打詐成效但是打詐成效回饋給你的缺失打騙案也好案件數跟金額都在創新高\n\n05:49.514 --> 06:11.183\n尤其事實上在我們整個的打架過程裡面我們的檢察官他們曾經召開過這個類似公聽會那麼在我們一線的檢察官曾經針對詐騙提到有三大戰犯三大戰犯呢就是\n\n06:12.691 --> 06:37.603\n包括我們經管會他說人頭戶欠缺管理然後NCC對於電信的境外門號管理不佳然後數位部對第三方支付也是欠缺管理所以在第一線檢察官他們用具名的方式直接點名三大戰犯但我也看到你們今天的報告有針對這些你們提出一些你們所這個\n\n06:39.664 --> 07:03.351\n執行跟落實的相關的政策所以我想請問主委我想請問NCC和訴發部你們能不能保證你們能不能保證第一季馬上就要結束了因為現在已經3月了在今年第一季我們的詐騙案也好詐騙金額也好可以看到顯著的下降你們有沒有這樣的信心可以保證\n\n07:05.305 --> 07:23.777\n我想基層檢察官的指教我們虛心受教那我們也不斷在改進那第一季最重要的就是揮名單還有那個告誡戶的上線對我知道你們上線了我認為應該會有效果但是我想我不太適合去代表打詐平台去表示意見\n\n07:24.748 --> 07:47.590\n至少你們人頭戶的部分我看到你們做了一些事情來來我時間有限來我們現在是委員好那個我們就針對國際贏得來的話這邊的話有攔阻跟警示這個有成效那我們因為這個詐騙集團他的手法不斷的演變我待會就要告訴你新手法又出來了所以說我們會結合電信公司啊\n\n07:48.030 --> 08:06.367\n在這一邊持續精進有關於國際漫遊的黑美卡我們上個禮拜有跟電信公司已經達成上技術上面可以去驗證我想接下來會推出一系列的方法所以黑美卡可以驗證可以委員問到重點是好那這個部分來NCC那個書房\n\n08:08.024 --> 08:09.465\n我看到你們在遊戲點數要做管理,對不對?\n\n08:31.300 --> 08:59.800\n我希望不要等到我們過一兩個月之後再來去檢視的時候發現我們第一季根本沒有下降的跡象這點非常重要而且我們不應該追在這些詐騙集團的後面在那邊捕破網而已我在這邊也特別提出來這些詐騙集團手法推陳出新我給幾位看一下現在在網路上出現的一些就是告訴你你要怎麼樣\n\n09:01.361 --> 09:23.693\n來防詐,然後教你怎麼樣去補救,把騙的錢騙回來,說你被網路詐騙過了嗎?揭露他們是我們的專長啊,我們幫你追回來啊。結果這些全部都是詐騙集團。所以真的是防不勝防啊,我們過去看到很多的太陽。所以我在這邊齁,來時間暫停一下,法務部今天有來嗎?來,法務部是誰啊?來,市長。\n\n09:33.203 --> 09:54.913\n所以次長必須要講這些詐騙集團實隨之謂這個惡劣是在哪就是你還在騙被騙過的人就是很多人就是你已經經過人都被騙過了你還要再騙一騙再騙所以像這樣的方式這樣的手法一定要嚴辦可不可以\n\n09:55.873 --> 10:24.079\n報告委員,這個沒問題,這檢察官的天職好,我希望以後我們再看到的沒有這種明明你已經是騙過人還要再一騙再騙另外一部分就是他們談到就是說你怎麼樣追回你被騙的這些錢那我也要特別提出因為在全世界確實都有感於這個國際詐騙真的是越來越多所以呢追回部分或者全部的損失也變成很重要的除了防堵之外在\n\n10:24.739 --> 10:42.813\n拜遍之後你要追回如果你看世界各國來說這個比例啊就是跟我們鄰近這幾個國家台灣是最低的台灣是最低的所以我想請法務部去研究一下因為這個是世界防詐組織他們所做的這樣的一個\n\n10:46.016 --> 11:08.708\n我希望法務部去研究一下為什麼日本可以追回將近三成他當然也沒有到三成啦但是我們台灣最低13.9%所以是不是在法令上或者是在我們這些行政相關的就是這些措施上有沒有有所不足然後我們去把它補強\n\n11:10.049 --> 11:28.739\n至少我們可以去追回一部分損失的金額減少我們這些受害人的損失可不可以?公文報告那事實上我們憲情法上的確就有相關犯罪所得追還的機制的但是也許不足那我們在打詐專法打詐專法裡面我們會去設計相關條文看怎麼制度上設計這樣\n\n11:30.100 --> 11:30.120\n謝謝,請回\n\n11:59.468 --> 11:59.951\n下一位質詢請黃珊珊\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":0.57,"text":"主席"},{"start":12.711,"end":39.22,"text":"主席好,主席長這兩天大家最熱議的話題就是電價上漲那尤其是在經濟部公布了包含工業用電、民生用電的電價漲幅之後那麼現在呢百頁含漲大家都說可能受不了所以主席長你認為在電價調漲之後那麼會不會有這個民生消費物價上漲的情形"},{"start":39.619,"end":39.879,"text":"所以﹖"},{"start":61.878,"end":88.82,"text":"所以電價上漲確實會造成物價上漲的一個壓力否則的話中央銀行也不會違背整個國際的這個趨勢反而就是沒有降息反而升息跟那個委員報告一下因為那個我們的利率事實上是實質利率是負的所以央行有那個實質利率為什麼會是負的呢就是物價上漲的過高嘛對不對"},{"start":91.263,"end":101.398,"text":"來我們來看喔因為這兩天大家都非常擔心電價上漲結果呢我們經濟部長王美花王部長喊話說警告業者不能以漲電價為由來漲物價"},{"start":105.539,"end":122.215,"text":"主計長你覺得這句話適當嗎?這個我沒有聽到他講的但是我認為說他應該有個前提是不當的這個是怎麼漲價到超過成本的漲價也許是不恰當的"},{"start":122.836,"end":137.756,"text":"所以你覺得說如果業者去反映他的店家上漲的成本 這難免會有漲物價只是說不應該是用烘台的方式 或者是找一個藉口就隨便漲物價 對不對對 林委員說得非常對 他應該原意是這樣子 謝謝"},{"start":140.72,"end":165.314,"text":"所以我覺得王部長他當然很擔心說這個會造成物價的連動可是恐嚇業者沒有辦法解決未來會漲價的一個狀況而且你說不能漲價那我們現在也說不要漲電價啊不能漲電價那請問一下經濟部聽嗎?行政院也不聽啊另外主計長我再跟您請教我們最近非常關心的就是上漲電價之後呢對於大眾運輸業者"},{"start":169.156,"end":188.22,"text":"尤其像我們在台北我們的捷運出非常非常多比如說我們台北捷運、台中捷運、桃捷還有高雄捷運、台鐵、高鐵事實上都因此而使它的營運成本大幅的升高所以現在地方比如說以台北市就希望能夠針對大眾運輸能夠動漲"},{"start":191.681,"end":192.602,"text":"北捷島他是那個"},{"start":216.924,"end":217.724,"text":"所以應該要給予補助"},{"start":246.218,"end":273.757,"text":"現行就有補助了他補助不夠啊你現在補助現在他去年多了3.6億吧今年要超過5億因為每年電價越漲越高那你現在補助完全不夠所以他提出來你也不要給我補助了你就動漲可不可以跟那個委員報告一下因為我剛才講過他們我們不能干涉他說他漲不漲價但是據我了解到他們的電價上漲的話大概是佔他們成本大概1%"},{"start":275.718,"end":298.844,"text":"不只啦,百分之十三、百分之十幾所以基本上這個待會我到交通委員會我也會幫臺北市捷運來請命好,時間暫停,我想主計長可以請回我找金管會主委、NCC、翁副主委、數發部李政次委員長"},{"start":309.627,"end":325.383,"text":"我們今天的報告都說我們的行動綱領1.0版自執行以來初見成效成效在哪裡?成效其實是可以用數字化的我們來看一下雖然我們成立了國家打詐隊"},{"start":326.664,"end":348.634,"text":"但是呢可以看到這7年來詐騙案也好或詐騙的金額也好是連年的在升高一直在創紀錄所以一方面我們說我們有出件打詐成效但是打詐成效回饋給你的缺失打騙案也好案件數跟金額都在創新高"},{"start":349.514,"end":371.183,"text":"尤其事實上在我們整個的打架過程裡面我們的檢察官他們曾經召開過這個類似公聽會那麼在我們一線的檢察官曾經針對詐騙提到有三大戰犯三大戰犯呢就是"},{"start":372.691,"end":397.603,"text":"包括我們經管會他說人頭戶欠缺管理然後NCC對於電信的境外門號管理不佳然後數位部對第三方支付也是欠缺管理所以在第一線檢察官他們用具名的方式直接點名三大戰犯但我也看到你們今天的報告有針對這些你們提出一些你們所這個"},{"start":399.664,"end":423.351,"text":"執行跟落實的相關的政策所以我想請問主委我想請問NCC和訴發部你們能不能保證你們能不能保證第一季馬上就要結束了因為現在已經3月了在今年第一季我們的詐騙案也好詐騙金額也好可以看到顯著的下降你們有沒有這樣的信心可以保證"},{"start":425.305,"end":443.777,"text":"我想基層檢察官的指教我們虛心受教那我們也不斷在改進那第一季最重要的就是揮名單還有那個告誡戶的上線對我知道你們上線了我認為應該會有效果但是我想我不太適合去代表打詐平台去表示意見"},{"start":444.748,"end":467.59,"text":"至少你們人頭戶的部分我看到你們做了一些事情來來我時間有限來我們現在是委員好那個我們就針對國際贏得來的話這邊的話有攔阻跟警示這個有成效那我們因為這個詐騙集團他的手法不斷的演變我待會就要告訴你新手法又出來了所以說我們會結合電信公司啊"},{"start":468.03,"end":486.367,"text":"在這一邊持續精進有關於國際漫遊的黑美卡我們上個禮拜有跟電信公司已經達成上技術上面可以去驗證我想接下來會推出一系列的方法所以黑美卡可以驗證可以委員問到重點是好那這個部分來NCC那個書房"},{"start":488.024,"end":489.465,"text":"我看到你們在遊戲點數要做管理,對不對?"},{"start":511.3,"end":539.8,"text":"我希望不要等到我們過一兩個月之後再來去檢視的時候發現我們第一季根本沒有下降的跡象這點非常重要而且我們不應該追在這些詐騙集團的後面在那邊捕破網而已我在這邊也特別提出來這些詐騙集團手法推陳出新我給幾位看一下現在在網路上出現的一些就是告訴你你要怎麼樣"},{"start":541.361,"end":563.693,"text":"來防詐,然後教你怎麼樣去補救,把騙的錢騙回來,說你被網路詐騙過了嗎?揭露他們是我們的專長啊,我們幫你追回來啊。結果這些全部都是詐騙集團。所以真的是防不勝防啊,我們過去看到很多的太陽。所以我在這邊齁,來時間暫停一下,法務部今天有來嗎?來,法務部是誰啊?來,市長。"},{"start":573.203,"end":594.913,"text":"所以次長必須要講這些詐騙集團實隨之謂這個惡劣是在哪就是你還在騙被騙過的人就是很多人就是你已經經過人都被騙過了你還要再騙一騙再騙所以像這樣的方式這樣的手法一定要嚴辦可不可以"},{"start":595.873,"end":624.079,"text":"報告委員,這個沒問題,這檢察官的天職好,我希望以後我們再看到的沒有這種明明你已經是騙過人還要再一騙再騙另外一部分就是他們談到就是說你怎麼樣追回你被騙的這些錢那我也要特別提出因為在全世界確實都有感於這個國際詐騙真的是越來越多所以呢追回部分或者全部的損失也變成很重要的除了防堵之外在"},{"start":624.739,"end":642.813,"text":"拜遍之後你要追回如果你看世界各國來說這個比例啊就是跟我們鄰近這幾個國家台灣是最低的台灣是最低的所以我想請法務部去研究一下因為這個是世界防詐組織他們所做的這樣的一個"},{"start":646.016,"end":668.708,"text":"我希望法務部去研究一下為什麼日本可以追回將近三成他當然也沒有到三成啦但是我們台灣最低13.9%所以是不是在法令上或者是在我們這些行政相關的就是這些措施上有沒有有所不足然後我們去把它補強"},{"start":670.049,"end":688.739,"text":"至少我們可以去追回一部分損失的金額減少我們這些受害人的損失可不可以?公文報告那事實上我們憲情法上的確就有相關犯罪所得追還的機制的但是也許不足那我們在打詐專法打詐專法裡面我們會去設計相關條文看怎麼制度上設計這樣"},{"start":690.1,"end":690.12,"text":"謝謝,請回"},{"start":719.468,"end":719.951,"text":"下一位質詢請黃珊珊"}]}}}}