{"id":150341,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150341","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005be6d89b5e48345555cabe2e38d5d7efe9f8ba9b0039caa7a6761d7bf9d56e7b835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"10:43:27 - 10:52:35","影片長度":"00:09:08","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：審查委員傅崐萁等33人擬具「花東快速公路建設特別條例草案」案。【詢答及處理】【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":548,"end_time":"2024-03-25T10:52:35+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T10:43:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":456,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（10時43分）謝謝主席。請主席邀請部長。"],["主席：部長，請。"],["王部長國材：陳委員好。"],["陳委員素月：部長早安。我想今天委員們都很關心重大交通建設的推動，本席想先請部長就國家在推動重大交通建設的流程，是不是請部長簡單說一下這個流程？"],["王部長國材：是。現在整個交通部所謂個案計畫都是按照行政院中長程個案計畫審議辦法來處理，意思是說它是經過可行性研究、綜合規劃，這兩個核定以後再環評通過，整個核定後我們每一年就開始編預算給它，比如一開始的設計費用，以及後來的興建費用，目前所有全國的交通建設都是走這樣的程序。所以比較沒有用特別條例，就是還沒有走這個程序就定的狀況。"],["陳委員素月：好。我們知道交通建設可以帶動地方發展，每一個委員因為是受到地方鄉親的支持，所以當選、進入國會，當然就是關心地方的交通建設，為地方爭取重大交通建設，這都是天經地義、無可厚非的，所以我們也尊重傅委員為地方爭取花東快速公路。我再請教部長，就花東快的部分，目前是有在進行當中，是不是？"],["王部長國材：是，跟委員報告，花東快在102年馬總統時代有啟動，但在105年就說不可行，就中斷了；在108年，我記得當時徐榛蔚委員有提一個臨時動議，在交委會有通過，我們也覺得花東快可以再重啟，所以當時交通部也沒有反對的意見，現在已經進入可行性的期末報告階段，在8月會提出一個報告，但這是委託顧問公司所做的報告，然後我們就開始走我們的程序。"],["陳委員素月：委託顧問公司就是委託他們就專業的部分去做評估嘛，也絕對不是以某個人個人的意志去決定可不可行，是不是？"],["王部長國材：是，所有的計畫都一樣。"],["陳委員素月：所有的計畫都一樣嘛，所以你說馬英九政府執政的時候，國民黨執政所做的可行性評估，那時候的評估結論就是不可行嘛。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["陳委員素月：所以馬英九政府也是尊重專業，就是不可行，對不對？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["陳委員素月：所以在蔡英文總統執政後，我們又再次重啟花東快的可行性評估，這也證明蔡英文總統執政是重視花東地區的交通建設，是不是？"],["王部長國材：是，我們都非常支持。"],["陳委員素月：非常支持，所以我們用實際的行動來重啟花東快的可行性評估，這個我們要讓花東地區的鄉親知道，也要讓全國的民眾知道，對不對？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["陳委員素月：本席要再請教，剛剛部長有先講了一下重大交通建設的流程，這都有一定的流程，目前花東快的流程已經走到可行性評估，預計在今年8月會出爐，我們先不論可行性評估的結果如何，我想先請教，這個花東快如果走完全部的程序，就是包括環評、環差都通過，符合環評，也經行政院審議之後，你支持這一個建設嗎？"],["王部長國材：如果都通過，我支持啊，就是這個程序走完，如果每個程序都走過，當然我們也會儘量去克服，比如有一些審查中他們覺得有問題的，我們也會儘量去克服，如果通過，我們一定支持，但是的確要用一個客觀、嚴謹的程序來進行。"],["陳委員素月：對，就是只要走完這個流程，都符合程序的話，交通部是絕對支持花東快的嘛。"],["王部長國材：是，會支持。"],["陳委員素月：所以本席接下來要請教，交通部在蔡英文總統執政這幾年，對於花東地區的交通建設，就是鐵路、公路的建設，總共投入超過3,000億，就這些建設，目前有已完工的、有執行中的，也有在規劃當中的，這些計畫中有哪個計畫是沒有按照這個程序走的？"],["王部長國材：全部都是走這個程序。"],["陳委員素月：沒有例外？"],["王部長國材：而且我們都儘量加速，能夠進行的都加速，全部都是。"],["陳委員素月：都加速嗎？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["陳委員素月：所以在此要再次讓鄉親知道，重大交通建設一定要按照這個程序來走，這是沒有例外的嘛。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["陳委員素月：因為你如果用一個特別條例來匡住預算，這就違反了預算跟行政權在憲法中的相關規定，是不是？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，事實上交通部在全國的交通建設有一套藍圖，這個藍圖包括東部的部分，尤其鐵公路的改善是我們最重要的部分，我們的意思是，在我們這個藍圖的架構下，每個個案計畫就走它的審查程序，我們逐步來完成。交通部非常支持花東、東部的建設，我們都非常支持。"],["陳委員素月：對，其實對於整個國內的重大交通建設，我想交通部應該是通盤來做考量，以交通建設的藍圖來推動，當然每一個地方的立委都是責無旁貸為自己地方的居民來爭取重大交通建設，不過我們還是要尊重憲法的體制，按照這個程序來走。","我們看到今天交通部的報告中也有提到，花東快速道路的推動如果用特別條例的方式來匡住預算有違憲之虞，這個部分是不是請部長再簡單講一下？"],["王部長國材：雖然它是一個法律案，但是裡面已經設定2,500億為上限，10年完成，還包括成立專責單位來督導，等於這裡面已經有一個計畫就要進行，現在要這樣做，而我們覺得雖然這是一個法律案，但有對於預算的條文在裡面，所以在跨部會討論是覺得跟憲法第七十條有些衝突，大概是這樣。"],["陳委員素月：如果這個特別條例通過了，部長你會怎麼做？"],["王部長國材：比如它裡面需要交通部長主持相關會議來促進，光這件事情，我們所有計畫都是很客觀的，這樣的話，每一個建設都要部長來……比如臺南的建設、彰化的建設……"],["陳委員素月：對，如果開了這個先例，有的委員也會為自己區的建設提出特別條例，我想這樣就整個都亂了。所以我覺得如果這個真的違反憲政體制，強行通過，我建議部長直接提釋憲，這樣才不會亂掉，是不是？"],["王部長國材：我想釋憲是可以討論，但最重要的是，交通部從專業來講是全國一致，如果這個破例了，那真的是每一個都可以做特別條例，會有這種狀況，這樣未來交通部整體建設的藍圖還有我們的審查機制都不見了，就等於預先要走這樣的條例，開始去開會、去促進它、經費要預留多少錢等等，也有可能後面某一些案子審查不通過，那我弄了老半天，而且我還去主動開會讓它過，這樣就失去公平嚴謹的審查。"],["陳委員素月：好。本席在這邊也要強調，我也支持花東快速公路的建設，可是我們還是要強調，還是要在符合憲政體制下來推動。謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳素月委員的發言。","休息10分鐘。","休息（10時52分）","繼續開會（11時2分）"],["主席：開會。","下一位請何欣純委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":472,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-5","speakers":["陳雪生","傅崐萁","李昆澤","廖先翔","黃健豪","游顥","徐富癸","林國成","魯明哲","蔡其昌","陳素月","何欣純","林俊憲","邱若華","許智傑","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 532.125, \"end\": 532.145, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,731 --> 00:00:06,115\n好這完了休息10分鐘好不好謝謝謝謝主席請主席邀請部長部長請陳委員好部長早安那今天我想委員們都很關心這個重大交通建設的推動那本期想先請部長就我們就是國家在推動重大交通建設有一定的流程那是不是可以請部長簡單的說一下這個流程\n\n2\n00:00:30,476 --> 00:00:45,976\n現在整個交通部所謂個案計劃都是按照行政院中長程個案計劃審議辦法來處理那這個意思是說它是經過可行性研究綜合規劃這兩個合併以後再環評通過\n\n3\n00:00:48,739 --> 00:01:06,959\n整個核電以後我們就開始編預算給他每年比如說一開始設計費用後來是興建費用這個是所有的目前全國交通建設都是走這樣的程序所以如果所以比較沒有這種用特別條例還沒有在走這個程序就把它定了這個這個狀況\n\n4\n00:01:08,504 --> 00:01:37,700\n是好那我們知道就是說這個交通建設是可以帶動地方的一個發展然後那每一個委員就是因為是受到地方鄉親的支持來當選進入國會當然就是關心地方的交通建設為地方爭取重大交通建設這個都是天經地義無可厚非的所以我們也尊重那個副委員為地方爭取這個花東快速公路那我這裡再請教一下部長就是\n\n5\n00:01:38,180 --> 00:01:49,468\n就這個花東快的部分目前我們就在進行當中的嗎是不是是跟我們報告花東快在102年那個當時在這個馬總統時代有啟動但是105年就是說不可行了\n\n6\n00:01:55,572 --> 00:02:18,408\n所以他就中斷了然後在這個108年當時的這個我覺得應該是徐政委員所提的一個臨時動議但是在交通委員會有通過那我們也覺得花東快可以再重啟所以當時交通部也沒有反對的意見那現在已經進入這個可行性的期末報告階段在8月會提出一個報告出來\n\n7\n00:02:35,447 --> 00:02:52,801\n所以你說就馬英九政府執政的時候他們國民黨執政他們做這個可行性評估那時候的評估的結論就是不可行所以馬英九政府也是尊重專業就是不可行對不對\n\n8\n00:02:53,442 --> 00:03:14,350\n所以我們在蔡英文總統執政之後我們又再次的重啟了這個花東快的可行性評估所以這也證明我們蔡英文總統執政我們是重視花東地區的交通建設嘛是不是我們非常支持非常支持也是所以我們就是就實際的一個行動來重啟這個花東快的可行性評估嘛\n\n9\n00:03:17,651 --> 00:03:42,274\n所以這個我們要讓花東地區的鄉親知道嘛也要讓全國的民眾知道對不對是那本席在這邊再請教一下就是說就剛剛部長有先講了一下重大交通建設的一個流程就是有一定的流程那目前花東快的流程是已經走到可行性評估那預計在今年的8月會出爐嘛是\n\n10\n00:03:42,734 --> 00:04:04,385\n那我們先不論說這個可信性評估的結果是如何我想先請教一下就是說這個花東快的程序如果說走完全部的一個程序就是說包括它的環評環差都通過符合環評然後也經行政院審議了之後那你支持這一個建設嗎\n\n11\n00:04:05,823 --> 00:04:22,983\n我覺得如果都通過我支持就是說我當然我就是說這個程序走完如果都每一個程序都走過當然我們也會盡量去克服比如說有些審查中如果他們覺得問題我們會盡量去克服如果通過我們一定支持但是的確要有一個客觀這個嚴謹的程序來進行\n\n12\n00:04:25,982 --> 00:04:48,336\n對就是只要走完這個流程都符合程序的話交通部是絕對支持花東快的所以本席在這邊在接下來請教就是說我們交通部在這幾年就是蔡英文總統執政這幾年對花東地區的這個交通建設就是鐵路公路的建設我們總共投入了超過3000億\n\n13\n00:04:50,057 --> 00:05:01,674\n那就這一些建設目前有已完工的有執行中的也有在規劃當中的那這一些計畫當中有哪一個計畫是沒有按照這個程序走的\n\n14\n00:05:33,577 --> 00:06:00,286\n因為我跟委員報告事實上交通部在全國的交通建設我們有一套藍圖那這個藍圖就包括這個東部裡面的尤其鐵公路的改善是我們最重要的一個部分那我們意思是說應該在我們這個藍圖的架構下每一個個案計畫就走它審查的程序那我們逐步把它完成那交通部非常的支持在花東的這方面的一個建設東部的建設我們都非常支持\n\n15\n00:06:01,159 --> 00:06:14,677\n對其實對於整個國內的中大交通建設我想交通部應該是站在一個統盤就是一個通盤的一個考量一個交通建設的藍圖來推動那當然每一個地方的立委都是責務龐大為\n\n16\n00:06:42,561 --> 00:06:52,614\n主要雖然它是一個法律案但是它裡面就是已經設定說2500億當上限10年完成還有包括成立專責的單位來督導\n\n17\n00:07:41,323 --> 00:07:42,824\n我建議部長應該就直接提釋憲這樣子才不會亂掉啊是不是\n\n18\n00:08:04,038 --> 00:08:26,397\n我想說這個事件是這是可以討論但最重要是說我交通部從專業來講全國一致我如果是一個破了例那真的是每一個每一個都可以做一個特別條例是會有這種狀況那這樣未來在交通部的整體建設的藍圖還有我們審查的機制都不見了\n\n19\n00:08:27,538 --> 00:08:50,765\n對就會有這樣就等於說一先就就這個要要走這樣的條例開始去開會去促進他把經費要要這個一流多少錢等等的那這樣這樣跟後面有可能在後面某一些案子可能審查不通過那我弄了半天而且我還去主動的讓他就是開會讓他過那這樣的話就是失去一個公平嚴整嚴謹的一個審查\n\n20\n00:08:52,025 --> 00:08:52,145\n陳素月\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n731\t6115\t好這完了休息10分鐘好不好謝謝謝謝主席請主席邀請部長部長請陳委員好部長早安那今天我想委員們都很關心這個重大交通建設的推動那本期想先請部長就我們就是國家在推動重大交通建設有一定的流程那是不是可以請部長簡單的說一下這個流程\n30476\t45976\t現在整個交通部所謂個案計劃都是按照行政院中長程個案計劃審議辦法來處理那這個意思是說它是經過可行性研究綜合規劃這兩個合併以後再環評通過\n48739\t66959\t整個核電以後我們就開始編預算給他每年比如說一開始設計費用後來是興建費用這個是所有的目前全國交通建設都是走這樣的程序所以如果所以比較沒有這種用特別條例還沒有在走這個程序就把它定了這個這個狀況\n68504\t97700\t是好那我們知道就是說這個交通建設是可以帶動地方的一個發展然後那每一個委員就是因為是受到地方鄉親的支持來當選進入國會當然就是關心地方的交通建設為地方爭取重大交通建設這個都是天經地義無可厚非的所以我們也尊重那個副委員為地方爭取這個花東快速公路那我這裡再請教一下部長就是\n98180\t109468\t就這個花東快的部分目前我們就在進行當中的嗎是不是是跟我們報告花東快在102年那個當時在這個馬總統時代有啟動但是105年就是說不可行了\n115572\t138408\t所以他就中斷了然後在這個108年當時的這個我覺得應該是徐政委員所提的一個臨時動議但是在交通委員會有通過那我們也覺得花東快可以再重啟所以當時交通部也沒有反對的意見那現在已經進入這個可行性的期末報告階段在8月會提出一個報告出來\n138848\t155367\t﹖﹖\n155447\t172801\t所以你說就馬英九政府執政的時候他們國民黨執政他們做這個可行性評估那時候的評估的結論就是不可行所以馬英九政府也是尊重專業就是不可行對不對\n173442\t194350\t所以我們在蔡英文總統執政之後我們又再次的重啟了這個花東快的可行性評估所以這也證明我們蔡英文總統執政我們是重視花東地區的交通建設嘛是不是我們非常支持非常支持也是所以我們就是就實際的一個行動來重啟這個花東快的可行性評估嘛\n197651\t222274\t所以這個我們要讓花東地區的鄉親知道嘛也要讓全國的民眾知道對不對是那本席在這邊再請教一下就是說就剛剛部長有先講了一下重大交通建設的一個流程就是有一定的流程那目前花東快的流程是已經走到可行性評估那預計在今年的8月會出爐嘛是\n222734\t244385\t那我們先不論說這個可信性評估的結果是如何我想先請教一下就是說這個花東快的程序如果說走完全部的一個程序就是說包括它的環評環差都通過符合環評然後也經行政院審議了之後那你支持這一個建設嗎\n245823\t262983\t我覺得如果都通過我支持就是說我當然我就是說這個程序走完如果都每一個程序都走過當然我們也會盡量去克服比如說有些審查中如果他們覺得問題我們會盡量去克服如果通過我們一定支持但是的確要有一個客觀這個嚴謹的程序來進行\n265982\t288336\t對就是只要走完這個流程都符合程序的話交通部是絕對支持花東快的所以本席在這邊在接下來請教就是說我們交通部在這幾年就是蔡英文總統執政這幾年對花東地區的這個交通建設就是鐵路公路的建設我們總共投入了超過3000億\n290057\t301674\t那就這一些建設目前有已完工的有執行中的也有在規劃當中的那這一些計畫當中有哪一個計畫是沒有按照這個程序走的\n302056\t332056\t﹏﹏﹏\n333577\t360286\t因為我跟委員報告事實上交通部在全國的交通建設我們有一套藍圖那這個藍圖就包括這個東部裡面的尤其鐵公路的改善是我們最重要的一個部分那我們意思是說應該在我們這個藍圖的架構下每一個個案計畫就走它審查的程序那我們逐步把它完成那交通部非常的支持在花東的這方面的一個建設東部的建設我們都非常支持\n361159\t374677\t對其實對於整個國內的中大交通建設我想交通部應該是站在一個統盤就是一個通盤的一個考量一個交通建設的藍圖來推動那當然每一個地方的立委都是責務龐大為\n376459\t400435\t﹏﹏﹏\n402561\t412614\t主要雖然它是一個法律案但是它裡面就是已經設定說2500億當上限10年完成還有包括成立專責的單位來督導\n415538\t444462\t⋯⋯⋯⋯\n445657\t461323\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n461323\t462824\t我建議部長應該就直接提釋憲這樣子才不會亂掉啊是不是\n484038\t506397\t我想說這個事件是這是可以討論但最重要是說我交通部從專業來講全國一致我如果是一個破了例那真的是每一個每一個都可以做一個特別條例是會有這種狀況那這樣未來在交通部的整體建設的藍圖還有我們審查的機制都不見了\n507538\t530765\t對就會有這樣就等於說一先就就這個要要走這樣的條例開始去開會去促進他把經費要要這個一流多少錢等等的那這樣這樣跟後面有可能在後面某一些案子可能審查不通過那我弄了半天而且我還去主動的讓他就是開會讓他過那這樣的話就是失去一個公平嚴整嚴謹的一個審查\n532025\t532145\t陳素月\n","txt":"好這完了休息10分鐘好不好謝謝謝謝主席請主席邀請部長部長請陳委員好部長早安那今天我想委員們都很關心這個重大交通建設的推動那本期想先請部長就我們就是國家在推動重大交通建設有一定的流程那是不是可以請部長簡單的說一下這個流程\n現在整個交通部所謂個案計劃都是按照行政院中長程個案計劃審議辦法來處理那這個意思是說它是經過可行性研究綜合規劃這兩個合併以後再環評通過\n整個核電以後我們就開始編預算給他每年比如說一開始設計費用後來是興建費用這個是所有的目前全國交通建設都是走這樣的程序所以如果所以比較沒有這種用特別條例還沒有在走這個程序就把它定了這個這個狀況\n是好那我們知道就是說這個交通建設是可以帶動地方的一個發展然後那每一個委員就是因為是受到地方鄉親的支持來當選進入國會當然就是關心地方的交通建設為地方爭取重大交通建設這個都是天經地義無可厚非的所以我們也尊重那個副委員為地方爭取這個花東快速公路那我這裡再請教一下部長就是\n就這個花東快的部分目前我們就在進行當中的嗎是不是是跟我們報告花東快在102年那個當時在這個馬總統時代有啟動但是105年就是說不可行了\n所以他就中斷了然後在這個108年當時的這個我覺得應該是徐政委員所提的一個臨時動議但是在交通委員會有通過那我們也覺得花東快可以再重啟所以當時交通部也沒有反對的意見那現在已經進入這個可行性的期末報告階段在8月會提出一個報告出來\n﹖﹖\n所以你說就馬英九政府執政的時候他們國民黨執政他們做這個可行性評估那時候的評估的結論就是不可行所以馬英九政府也是尊重專業就是不可行對不對\n所以我們在蔡英文總統執政之後我們又再次的重啟了這個花東快的可行性評估所以這也證明我們蔡英文總統執政我們是重視花東地區的交通建設嘛是不是我們非常支持非常支持也是所以我們就是就實際的一個行動來重啟這個花東快的可行性評估嘛\n所以這個我們要讓花東地區的鄉親知道嘛也要讓全國的民眾知道對不對是那本席在這邊再請教一下就是說就剛剛部長有先講了一下重大交通建設的一個流程就是有一定的流程那目前花東快的流程是已經走到可行性評估那預計在今年的8月會出爐嘛是\n那我們先不論說這個可信性評估的結果是如何我想先請教一下就是說這個花東快的程序如果說走完全部的一個程序就是說包括它的環評環差都通過符合環評然後也經行政院審議了之後那你支持這一個建設嗎\n我覺得如果都通過我支持就是說我當然我就是說這個程序走完如果都每一個程序都走過當然我們也會盡量去克服比如說有些審查中如果他們覺得問題我們會盡量去克服如果通過我們一定支持但是的確要有一個客觀這個嚴謹的程序來進行\n對就是只要走完這個流程都符合程序的話交通部是絕對支持花東快的所以本席在這邊在接下來請教就是說我們交通部在這幾年就是蔡英文總統執政這幾年對花東地區的這個交通建設就是鐵路公路的建設我們總共投入了超過3000億\n那就這一些建設目前有已完工的有執行中的也有在規劃當中的那這一些計畫當中有哪一個計畫是沒有按照這個程序走的\n﹏﹏﹏\n因為我跟委員報告事實上交通部在全國的交通建設我們有一套藍圖那這個藍圖就包括這個東部裡面的尤其鐵公路的改善是我們最重要的一個部分那我們意思是說應該在我們這個藍圖的架構下每一個個案計畫就走它審查的程序那我們逐步把它完成那交通部非常的支持在花東的這方面的一個建設東部的建設我們都非常支持\n對其實對於整個國內的中大交通建設我想交通部應該是站在一個統盤就是一個通盤的一個考量一個交通建設的藍圖來推動那當然每一個地方的立委都是責務龐大為\n﹏﹏﹏\n主要雖然它是一個法律案但是它裡面就是已經設定說2500億當上限10年完成還有包括成立專責的單位來督導\n⋯⋯⋯⋯\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n我建議部長應該就直接提釋憲這樣子才不會亂掉啊是不是\n我想說這個事件是這是可以討論但最重要是說我交通部從專業來講全國一致我如果是一個破了例那真的是每一個每一個都可以做一個特別條例是會有這種狀況那這樣未來在交通部的整體建設的藍圖還有我們審查的機制都不見了\n對就會有這樣就等於說一先就就這個要要走這樣的條例開始去開會去促進他把經費要要這個一流多少錢等等的那這樣這樣跟後面有可能在後面某一些案子可能審查不通過那我弄了半天而且我還去主動的讓他就是開會讓他過那這樣的話就是失去一個公平嚴整嚴謹的一個審查\n陳素月\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.731 --> 00:06.115\n好這完了休息10分鐘好不好謝謝謝謝主席請主席邀請部長部長請陳委員好部長早安那今天我想委員們都很關心這個重大交通建設的推動那本期想先請部長就我們就是國家在推動重大交通建設有一定的流程那是不是可以請部長簡單的說一下這個流程\n\n00:30.476 --> 00:45.976\n現在整個交通部所謂個案計劃都是按照行政院中長程個案計劃審議辦法來處理那這個意思是說它是經過可行性研究綜合規劃這兩個合併以後再環評通過\n\n00:48.739 --> 01:06.959\n整個核電以後我們就開始編預算給他每年比如說一開始設計費用後來是興建費用這個是所有的目前全國交通建設都是走這樣的程序所以如果所以比較沒有這種用特別條例還沒有在走這個程序就把它定了這個這個狀況\n\n01:08.504 --> 01:37.700\n是好那我們知道就是說這個交通建設是可以帶動地方的一個發展然後那每一個委員就是因為是受到地方鄉親的支持來當選進入國會當然就是關心地方的交通建設為地方爭取重大交通建設這個都是天經地義無可厚非的所以我們也尊重那個副委員為地方爭取這個花東快速公路那我這裡再請教一下部長就是\n\n01:38.180 --> 01:49.468\n就這個花東快的部分目前我們就在進行當中的嗎是不是是跟我們報告花東快在102年那個當時在這個馬總統時代有啟動但是105年就是說不可行了\n\n01:55.572 --> 02:18.408\n所以他就中斷了然後在這個108年當時的這個我覺得應該是徐政委員所提的一個臨時動議但是在交通委員會有通過那我們也覺得花東快可以再重啟所以當時交通部也沒有反對的意見那現在已經進入這個可行性的期末報告階段在8月會提出一個報告出來\n\n02:35.447 --> 02:52.801\n所以你說就馬英九政府執政的時候他們國民黨執政他們做這個可行性評估那時候的評估的結論就是不可行所以馬英九政府也是尊重專業就是不可行對不對\n\n02:53.442 --> 03:14.350\n所以我們在蔡英文總統執政之後我們又再次的重啟了這個花東快的可行性評估所以這也證明我們蔡英文總統執政我們是重視花東地區的交通建設嘛是不是我們非常支持非常支持也是所以我們就是就實際的一個行動來重啟這個花東快的可行性評估嘛\n\n03:17.651 --> 03:42.274\n所以這個我們要讓花東地區的鄉親知道嘛也要讓全國的民眾知道對不對是那本席在這邊再請教一下就是說就剛剛部長有先講了一下重大交通建設的一個流程就是有一定的流程那目前花東快的流程是已經走到可行性評估那預計在今年的8月會出爐嘛是\n\n03:42.734 --> 04:04.385\n那我們先不論說這個可信性評估的結果是如何我想先請教一下就是說這個花東快的程序如果說走完全部的一個程序就是說包括它的環評環差都通過符合環評然後也經行政院審議了之後那你支持這一個建設嗎\n\n04:05.823 --> 04:22.983\n我覺得如果都通過我支持就是說我當然我就是說這個程序走完如果都每一個程序都走過當然我們也會盡量去克服比如說有些審查中如果他們覺得問題我們會盡量去克服如果通過我們一定支持但是的確要有一個客觀這個嚴謹的程序來進行\n\n04:25.982 --> 04:48.336\n對就是只要走完這個流程都符合程序的話交通部是絕對支持花東快的所以本席在這邊在接下來請教就是說我們交通部在這幾年就是蔡英文總統執政這幾年對花東地區的這個交通建設就是鐵路公路的建設我們總共投入了超過3000億\n\n04:50.057 --> 05:01.674\n那就這一些建設目前有已完工的有執行中的也有在規劃當中的那這一些計畫當中有哪一個計畫是沒有按照這個程序走的\n\n05:33.577 --> 06:00.286\n因為我跟委員報告事實上交通部在全國的交通建設我們有一套藍圖那這個藍圖就包括這個東部裡面的尤其鐵公路的改善是我們最重要的一個部分那我們意思是說應該在我們這個藍圖的架構下每一個個案計畫就走它審查的程序那我們逐步把它完成那交通部非常的支持在花東的這方面的一個建設東部的建設我們都非常支持\n\n06:01.159 --> 06:14.677\n對其實對於整個國內的中大交通建設我想交通部應該是站在一個統盤就是一個通盤的一個考量一個交通建設的藍圖來推動那當然每一個地方的立委都是責務龐大為\n\n06:42.561 --> 06:52.614\n主要雖然它是一個法律案但是它裡面就是已經設定說2500億當上限10年完成還有包括成立專責的單位來督導\n\n07:41.323 --> 07:42.824\n我建議部長應該就直接提釋憲這樣子才不會亂掉啊是不是\n\n08:04.038 --> 08:26.397\n我想說這個事件是這是可以討論但最重要是說我交通部從專業來講全國一致我如果是一個破了例那真的是每一個每一個都可以做一個特別條例是會有這種狀況那這樣未來在交通部的整體建設的藍圖還有我們審查的機制都不見了\n\n08:27.538 --> 08:50.765\n對就會有這樣就等於說一先就就這個要要走這樣的條例開始去開會去促進他把經費要要這個一流多少錢等等的那這樣這樣跟後面有可能在後面某一些案子可能審查不通過那我弄了半天而且我還去主動的讓他就是開會讓他過那這樣的話就是失去一個公平嚴整嚴謹的一個審查\n\n08:52.025 --> 08:52.145\n陳素月\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.731,"end":6.115,"text":"好這完了休息10分鐘好不好謝謝謝謝主席請主席邀請部長部長請陳委員好部長早安那今天我想委員們都很關心這個重大交通建設的推動那本期想先請部長就我們就是國家在推動重大交通建設有一定的流程那是不是可以請部長簡單的說一下這個流程"},{"start":30.476,"end":45.976,"text":"現在整個交通部所謂個案計劃都是按照行政院中長程個案計劃審議辦法來處理那這個意思是說它是經過可行性研究綜合規劃這兩個合併以後再環評通過"},{"start":48.739,"end":66.959,"text":"整個核電以後我們就開始編預算給他每年比如說一開始設計費用後來是興建費用這個是所有的目前全國交通建設都是走這樣的程序所以如果所以比較沒有這種用特別條例還沒有在走這個程序就把它定了這個這個狀況"},{"start":68.504,"end":97.7,"text":"是好那我們知道就是說這個交通建設是可以帶動地方的一個發展然後那每一個委員就是因為是受到地方鄉親的支持來當選進入國會當然就是關心地方的交通建設為地方爭取重大交通建設這個都是天經地義無可厚非的所以我們也尊重那個副委員為地方爭取這個花東快速公路那我這裡再請教一下部長就是"},{"start":98.18,"end":109.468,"text":"就這個花東快的部分目前我們就在進行當中的嗎是不是是跟我們報告花東快在102年那個當時在這個馬總統時代有啟動但是105年就是說不可行了"},{"start":115.572,"end":138.408,"text":"所以他就中斷了然後在這個108年當時的這個我覺得應該是徐政委員所提的一個臨時動議但是在交通委員會有通過那我們也覺得花東快可以再重啟所以當時交通部也沒有反對的意見那現在已經進入這個可行性的期末報告階段在8月會提出一個報告出來"},{"start":138.848,"end":155.367,"text":" ﹖﹖"},{"start":155.447,"end":172.801,"text":"所以你說就馬英九政府執政的時候他們國民黨執政他們做這個可行性評估那時候的評估的結論就是不可行所以馬英九政府也是尊重專業就是不可行對不對"},{"start":173.442,"end":194.35,"text":"所以我們在蔡英文總統執政之後我們又再次的重啟了這個花東快的可行性評估所以這也證明我們蔡英文總統執政我們是重視花東地區的交通建設嘛是不是我們非常支持非常支持也是所以我們就是就實際的一個行動來重啟這個花東快的可行性評估嘛"},{"start":197.651,"end":222.274,"text":"所以這個我們要讓花東地區的鄉親知道嘛也要讓全國的民眾知道對不對是那本席在這邊再請教一下就是說就剛剛部長有先講了一下重大交通建設的一個流程就是有一定的流程那目前花東快的流程是已經走到可行性評估那預計在今年的8月會出爐嘛是"},{"start":222.734,"end":244.385,"text":"那我們先不論說這個可信性評估的結果是如何我想先請教一下就是說這個花東快的程序如果說走完全部的一個程序就是說包括它的環評環差都通過符合環評然後也經行政院審議了之後那你支持這一個建設嗎"},{"start":245.823,"end":262.983,"text":"我覺得如果都通過我支持就是說我當然我就是說這個程序走完如果都每一個程序都走過當然我們也會盡量去克服比如說有些審查中如果他們覺得問題我們會盡量去克服如果通過我們一定支持但是的確要有一個客觀這個嚴謹的程序來進行"},{"start":265.982,"end":288.336,"text":"對就是只要走完這個流程都符合程序的話交通部是絕對支持花東快的所以本席在這邊在接下來請教就是說我們交通部在這幾年就是蔡英文總統執政這幾年對花東地區的這個交通建設就是鐵路公路的建設我們總共投入了超過3000億"},{"start":290.057,"end":301.674,"text":"那就這一些建設目前有已完工的有執行中的也有在規劃當中的那這一些計畫當中有哪一個計畫是沒有按照這個程序走的"},{"start":302.056,"end":332.056,"text":"﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":333.577,"end":360.286,"text":"因為我跟委員報告事實上交通部在全國的交通建設我們有一套藍圖那這個藍圖就包括這個東部裡面的尤其鐵公路的改善是我們最重要的一個部分那我們意思是說應該在我們這個藍圖的架構下每一個個案計畫就走它審查的程序那我們逐步把它完成那交通部非常的支持在花東的這方面的一個建設東部的建設我們都非常支持"},{"start":361.159,"end":374.677,"text":"對其實對於整個國內的中大交通建設我想交通部應該是站在一個統盤就是一個通盤的一個考量一個交通建設的藍圖來推動那當然每一個地方的立委都是責務龐大為"},{"start":376.459,"end":400.435,"text":"﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":402.561,"end":412.614,"text":"主要雖然它是一個法律案但是它裡面就是已經設定說2500億當上限10年完成還有包括成立專責的單位來督導"},{"start":415.538,"end":444.462,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":445.657,"end":461.323,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":461.323,"end":462.824,"text":"我建議部長應該就直接提釋憲這樣子才不會亂掉啊是不是"},{"start":484.038,"end":506.397,"text":"我想說這個事件是這是可以討論但最重要是說我交通部從專業來講全國一致我如果是一個破了例那真的是每一個每一個都可以做一個特別條例是會有這種狀況那這樣未來在交通部的整體建設的藍圖還有我們審查的機制都不見了"},{"start":507.538,"end":530.765,"text":"對就會有這樣就等於說一先就就這個要要走這樣的條例開始去開會去促進他把經費要要這個一流多少錢等等的那這樣這樣跟後面有可能在後面某一些案子可能審查不通過那我弄了半天而且我還去主動的讓他就是開會讓他過那這樣的話就是失去一個公平嚴整嚴謹的一個審查"},{"start":532.025,"end":532.145,"text":"陳素月"}]}}}}