{"id":150344,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150344","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b1df2667b0e96b0c4e5559e54a1be29d3f8ba9b0039caa7a65993ba96f61a712e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"10:46:09 - 10:56:02","影片長度":"00:09:53","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案(含報告事項20案及討論事項1案)。\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-8"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":593,"end_time":"2024-03-25T10:56:02+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T10:46:09+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":685,"blocks":[["盧委員縣一：（10時46分）請許部長跟鄒署長。"],["主席：請許部長跟鄒署長。"],["盧委員縣一：部長好。"],["許部長銘春：盧委員好。"],["盧委員縣一：看到我就是看到原住民的問題。以這兩年原住民因為職災發生死亡或工傷的數據而言，民國111年原住民族整體災害千人率失能為3.48，與前兩年比較確實有下降，這是我們看到的數字。不過如果從死亡率來看，最右邊兩列可以看到，110年是0.062，111年為0.109，增加了將近兩倍，與109年相比，則增加了三倍。雖然整體災害減少了，不過死亡數字是增加的，你們有沒有做這方面的關心或研究？"],["許部長銘春：這部分我請署長說明。"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員。確實，我們知道去年跟前年原住民在工作上的職災死亡是增加的，所以這兩年針對部落進行工安宣導，特別是透過豐年祭等相關活動做很多宣導與展開……"],["盧委員縣一：跟一般勞工相比，我們大概是幾倍？去年勞工死亡人數是320人，原住民22人。按照人口比例來看，應該只有8人，也就是我們多了十幾個人死掉，就比例來說風險相對是高的，對不對？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，大部分原住民會從事的工作，風險確實相對比較高，所以如何在這種相對風險高的情況下，告訴原住民如何自保是很重要的。當然，我們也必須要求這些事業單位在防災時，要特別注意整個安全的展開，如營造業，原住民在營造業的數字滿多的。"],["盧委員縣一：我知道，因為我特別關心原住民的議題，早上也看了勞動部的原住民網頁，網頁的更新是到今天，應該有很認真在更新。不過以瀏覽人數來說，我們的勞工人數是20萬，可是真正去關心過這個網頁的勞工才3,000人而已。所以希望就我們原住民的勞工權益、宣導，應該讓他們知道你們到底在努力什麼，好不好？不然很少人知道你們在做什麼，也不會知道該如何尋求協助。"],["許部長銘春：是，好。"],["盧委員縣一：就職業失能量化來說，應該看得到是暫時的，還是永久的？因為現在這樣我看不出來！像14是營造業，總計有32人，這樣根本不知道他到底有多嚴重，也看不出來！"],["鄒署長子廉：報告委員，勞保局針對職業失能給付時，會依不同等級判斷，看他是什麼樣的等級。這部分後臺有比較細緻的資料，這裡是統計分析的說明，所以我跟委員說明一下。"],["盧委員縣一：以職業死亡為例，比如有22人，是不是每一個死亡者都應該要有case studying？"],["鄒署長子廉：有。"],["盧委員縣一：至於最後的其他服務業則太粗略了，人都已經死了還不知道他是什麼工作？這會讓人覺得很奇怪！不能太簡化他的死亡！"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，每一個死亡案件，我們都會做職災調查報告，即有關其肇災原因及如何做法規的究責處理。其次是職災補償方面，雇主有沒有給予補償？這點我們會做進一步的分析、瞭解跟處置。如果沒有職災補償，後面所牽涉到的法律問題與處罰問題，我們也會再做。所以我們會針對個案做比較細緻的職災調查報告與分析。"],["盧委員縣一：職災的發生，我們都知道是不安全的工作環境與不安全的工作行為所致，可是目前勞動檢查員才1,033位，職業安全部分則小於700位，這樣你們如何達成相關檢測？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，所有的安全衛生管理都是雇主的責任，政府是監督端，所以勞動監督檢查應該是抽重點、抽風險比較高的部分優先做監督檢查；比較屬於中低風險的，我們期待雇主能有管理系統做每天的、正常的……"],["盧委員縣一：我的意思是說量夠不夠？檢查員的數量夠不夠？畢竟只有一千多位！"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，臺灣檢查員與勞工人數的配比，在國際上應該算是正常的，並未偏低。"],["盧委員縣一：既然這樣，你可以呈現這樣的數據出來，讓大家知道確實有做到，可以嗎？"],["鄒署長子廉：是，好。"],["盧委員縣一：不然配置偏低，工作安全沒人把關，我們都知道……"],["許部長銘春：OECD有設置標準，我們再提供給委員。"],["盧委員縣一：好。大家都知道原住民勞工大概都在營造業，甚至運輸、倉儲都有，我希望對這種比較特殊的行業或風險比較高的行業能有安全建議，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["盧委員縣一：明明知道他是做這個工作，卻沒有規範或準則讓他知道怎麼樣的工作行為才是安全的。我沒有看到工作建議、安全建議啊？是不是應該要看到？因為我查不到所謂的safety suggestion！"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，其實比較高風險的部分應該有教育訓練，且應要求每個勞工都要有教育訓練，比如營造業就有3加3小時教育訓練，之後才有資格去現場工作。這部分我們希望現場的監督管理，在入場管制時就要瞭解他有沒有做教育訓練始能進場工作，這個我們在……"],["盧委員縣一：關於墜落職災這部分，我們都知道是大包轉小包，層層轉包，所以裁罰對大包來說，也就是業主根本不痛不癢！能不能透過勒令停工來真正嚇阻這樣的行為？部長覺得呢？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，其實以我們的檢查來說，如果發現有立即危險之虞，我們不但處罰，也會停工；停工之後提出復工的申請時，我們會去現場檢查、去現場看，唯有達到我們的安全標準才可以讓他復工，而營造業算是我們的檢查重點。"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，這其實我們是最主要的手段，去檢查的時候發現違規就是……"],["盧委員縣一：現在是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["盧委員縣一：現在有些人是從事派遣臨時工，但是當意外發生時常常都自掏腰包，怕被檢舉，這點你們知道嗎？"],["鄒署長子廉：民眾會擔心所謂的職災黑數，除了消防隊員會在第一時間跟我們的聯繫平臺報告外，我們現在也透過醫院端瞭解，如果發現疑似職業病或職業災害，也會透過系統回報。特別跟委員報告，我們不希望這類事情被隱瞞，所以我們鼓勵當事人或當事朋友，透過職災通報也給我們一些訊息。因此，新的災防法通過之後，我們也擴大了職災通報網絡，鼓勵……"],["盧委員縣一：有數據嗎？"],["鄒署長子廉：有。"],["盧委員縣一：有數據的話請給我？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["盧委員縣一：接下來就是勞檢部分，目前營造業、製造業占了相當大比例，可是勞檢次數可能不夠，這方面你們要如何精進改善？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，我還是要強調不是每一家事業單位都要去檢查！我們是以風險分級來做監督檢查！至於事業端也設置有安全管理人員，必須做自己內部的管理系統展開，我們則透過勞工吹哨者或外面的申訴、檢舉來做監督檢查。所以有關覆蓋率問題，其實世界各國不太談這塊的覆蓋率，至於如何有效保護第一線勞工的安全衛生，從監督檢查與事業端自主管理著手，我覺得應該可以由此來互相精進改善。"],["盧委員縣一：因為時間關係，我希望原住民族委員會能建立通報聯繫機制，也就是你們跟他們的通報聯繫機制並告訴他們，如果有勞工發生職災時，可以透過原住民關懷或家庭服務中心一起協助他們獲得社會支援。","最後，關於工作歧視問題，OECD針對普遍民眾做了工作歧視的認知研究，請問臺灣有沒有這方面的研究？現在做得最好的是芬蘭，大概有超過70%、將近80%民眾在工作上遇到騷擾或歧視時知道要爭取合法的權益，我認為這是我們全民都應該要知道的，希望勞動部也可以推動，消除工作上的歧視與騷擾，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["盧委員縣一：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝盧縣一委員。我們現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時56分）","繼續開會（11時6分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","接下來請涂權吉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-8","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","王育敏","盧縣一","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","黃國昌","賴士葆","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","徐巧芯","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-25"],"gazette_id":"1131901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實\n職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動\n部主管預算凍結案21案（含報告事項20案及討論事項1案）","agenda_id":"1131901_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150344","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150344","tool":"pyannote","id":"150344-pyannote"},"job_id":"21eOkKzQyIQmiBJB","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,606 --> 00:00:17,469\n主席請許部長跟周署長請許部長跟周署長部長好盧委員好\n\n2\n00:00:18,858 --> 00:00:46,946\n看到我就是看到原住民的問題那我們先看一下大概這兩年我們原住民因為植栽發生死亡的一個或者是說工傷的一個數據數據那看到那個數據就說民國111年原住民族整體災害千人率失能3.48跟前兩年比較是確實是有下降我們看到是這樣的數字不過如果從死亡率就是說最右邊\n\n3\n00:00:48,446 --> 00:01:13,543\n兩行兩列這邊可以看到110年是0.062不過111年的時候是0.109應該是有將近兩倍那跟前109的話是增加了三倍所以它的雖然是整體的那個災害是減少了不過死亡數字是增加的那你們有沒有做這方面的一個關心或者是說研究\n\n4\n00:01:16,050 --> 00:01:36,762\n這個問我請署長來說明一下謝謝謝謝委員確實去年跟前年我們原住民的職災死亡在工作上職災死亡是增加的這個我們知道所以我們其實這兩年特別針對那個部落的一些公安的宣導跟那個特別是透過他們的豐年祭什麼相關活動做很多的一些宣導活動展開\n\n5\n00:01:37,602 --> 00:01:39,543\n二、處理中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論二、處理中華民國113案及討論\n\n6\n00:02:00,615 --> 00:02:01,115\n議員提供的報告\n\n7\n00:02:17,304 --> 00:02:40,369\n我特別關心原住民的議題所以早上看了勞動部的關於原住民的網頁當然他更新也是更新到今天應該是很認真在更新不過我看了瀏覽的人數看我們的勞工的人數是20萬可是真正去關心過這個網頁的我們的勞工人才3000人而已所以希望\n\n8\n00:02:41,329 --> 00:02:58,951\n希望就是說你們在無論在我們原住民的一些勞工的權益啊、宣導啊應該讓他們知道說你們到底在努力什麼好不好不然很少人知道你們到底在做什麼的話沒有人知道去如何去尋求協助OK好那我們我希望這一個\n\n9\n00:03:00,802 --> 00:03:21,557\n所謂的職業失能的那個量化的時候應該要看得到他是暫時的還是永久的因為你這樣我看不我看不出來啊那個14齁14是林兆業然後總計是32人32人的話我不知道他到底是多嚴重好不好看不出來\n\n10\n00:03:23,032 --> 00:03:45,961\n包括這個職業私人、勞保局在做最後的那個職業私人的給付的時候會有不同的等級來判斷它是什麼樣的等級這個後台有比較細緻的資料那這個是統計分析的一個說明那我希望說在職業死亡的這個比如說每一個比如說22人好了那是不是每一個人的死亡的那個casestudy應該要有\n\n11\n00:03:46,781 --> 00:03:52,227\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n12\n00:04:02,737 --> 00:04:04,578\n二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11案及討論二、處理中華民國11案及討論\n\n13\n00:04:18,929 --> 00:04:23,975\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n14\n00:04:41,385 --> 00:04:59,393\n所有的安全衛生管理應該都是僱主負責僱主的責任那我們政府是監督端所以我們勞動監督檢查應該是重點做風險比較高的部分優先做監督檢查那比較屬於中低風險我們就期待僱主能夠有個管理系統做每天的正常的循環我意思是說這個量夠不夠這個檢察員的量夠不夠數量\n\n15\n00:05:03,735 --> 00:05:23,277\n根本包括我們的臺灣的檢察員的配比跟勞工旅遊配比已經在國際應該算是正常的沒有太多配提你可以呈現這樣的數據讓大家知道說確實有做到這樣子可以嗎不然會覺得說你算偏低了然後我們這個工作安全都沒有人去把關\n\n16\n00:05:24,538 --> 00:05:28,965\n二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n\n17\n00:05:40,101 --> 00:06:04,963\n這種比較特殊行業或者說風險比較高的一些安全的建議好不好你明明知道他是做這個工作可是他卻不知道如何去規範或者說去一個準則讓他知道說怎麼樣的工作行為是安全的我沒有看到工作建議安全建議啊是不是應該要看到因為我去查的時候查不到所以為了安全建議\n\n18\n00:06:06,772 --> 00:06:34,991\n各位報告其實比較高風險的部分我們所謂教育訓練應該會要求每個勞工有一定的教育訓練比如營造業我們3加3小時的教育訓練他才可以資格去現場做工作那這部分我們希望現場的監督管理入場管制就要了解他有沒有做教育訓練才能進場來作業關於那個墜落職災這個部分常常就是我們都知道是大包轉小包這樣給底下的下游廠商的採訪對大包的就是業主\n\n19\n00:06:35,931 --> 00:06:59,183\n不痛不癢,那能不能透過樂立停工來真正嚇阻這樣的一個行為?部長覺得呢?各位有報告,其實我們的檢查如果它發生有立即危險之餘,我們不但處罰也會做停工。停工它提出復工的申請,那我們先來檢查去現場看復工,達到我們的安全標準才可以讓它復工。確實營造業部分這個算是我們的檢查的重點。\n\n20\n00:07:01,212 --> 00:07:17,583\n我們其實這個很最主要的手段去檢查的時候發現違規就是希望是這樣那就是還有一些就是從事臨時工的派遣他發生意外的時候常常都是其實是這套腰包去坐車因為不敢被檢舉所以你這方面你知道嗎\n\n21\n00:07:19,601 --> 00:07:35,080\n這個委員就是民眾會擔心我們有那個植栽黑樹那我們除了第一時間消防隊員跟我們的聯繫的平台有報告之外我們現在透過醫院端如果發現疑似是職業病或職業災害的部分也會透過我們這個系統來做回報那特別跟委員報告\n\n22\n00:07:36,175 --> 00:07:49,268\n我們也不希望像這樣的事情會被隱瞞掉我們鼓勵當事人或當事朋友在我們職災通報裡面也給我們一些訊息所以我們在新的災報通過之後我們有職災通報的一個厚道網絡鼓勵有數據嗎?是\n\n23\n00:07:52,071 --> 00:08:06,006\n有數據嗎有數據再給我囉接下來就是說我們的那個勞檢的部分就是我們營造業跟製造業占了相當大的比例可是我們勞檢可能數目可能不夠那這方面你要怎麼做一個經濟改善\n\n24\n00:08:10,976 --> 00:08:28,665\n各位報告好我還是強調說我們不是每一家事業單位都要去檢查是這種風險分級來做我們的監督檢查那事業端裡面也有設置安全管理人員他做自己內部的管理的系統的展開那我們也可以透過勞工的吹哨子或是\n\n25\n00:08:29,245 --> 00:08:34,407\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n26\n00:08:49,132 --> 00:09:10,052\n原住民組委員會有建立一個通報聯繫機制你們可以跟他們一個通報聯繫機制如果有發生質在的勞工告訴他們他們可以透過我們原住民的關懷或者是說我們一個叫家庭服務中心來一起來協助他們獲得社會的資源再最後一個就是說關於工作上歧視的問題挑到最後一個\n\n27\n00:09:11,704 --> 00:09:24,949\n就是在OECD國家他有做一些研究然後就是對普遍的民眾做了一個對你如果你在工作上受到歧視的一個認知那我們台灣有沒有做這方面的研究像現在作業\n\n28\n00:09:27,547 --> 00:09:48,239\n現在最好的是芬蘭大概是他們全民有大概超過70、將近80%的對一個在工作上遇到騷擾或者說歧視的時候它是一個合法的權益是全民都應該要知道的一個所謂的智能那希望勞動部這邊也可以推動全民的一個消除歧視工作上的歧視跟騷擾這樣子可以嗎?好謝謝盧憲宜委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8606\t17469\t主席請許部長跟周署長請許部長跟周署長部長好盧委員好\n18858\t46946\t看到我就是看到原住民的問題那我們先看一下大概這兩年我們原住民因為植栽發生死亡的一個或者是說工傷的一個數據數據那看到那個數據就說民國111年原住民族整體災害千人率失能3.48跟前兩年比較是確實是有下降我們看到是這樣的數字不過如果從死亡率就是說最右邊\n48446\t73543\t兩行兩列這邊可以看到110年是0.062不過111年的時候是0.109應該是有將近兩倍那跟前109的話是增加了三倍所以它的雖然是整體的那個災害是減少了不過死亡數字是增加的那你們有沒有做這方面的一個關心或者是說研究\n76050\t96762\t這個問我請署長來說明一下謝謝謝謝委員確實去年跟前年我們原住民的職災死亡在工作上職災死亡是增加的這個我們知道所以我們其實這兩年特別針對那個部落的一些公安的宣導跟那個特別是透過他們的豐年祭什麼相關活動做很多的一些宣導活動展開\n97602\t99543\t二、處理中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論二、處理中華民國113案及討論\n120615\t121115\t議員提供的報告\n137304\t160369\t我特別關心原住民的議題所以早上看了勞動部的關於原住民的網頁當然他更新也是更新到今天應該是很認真在更新不過我看了瀏覽的人數看我們的勞工的人數是20萬可是真正去關心過這個網頁的我們的勞工人才3000人而已所以希望\n161329\t178951\t希望就是說你們在無論在我們原住民的一些勞工的權益啊、宣導啊應該讓他們知道說你們到底在努力什麼好不好不然很少人知道你們到底在做什麼的話沒有人知道去如何去尋求協助OK好那我們我希望這一個\n180802\t201557\t所謂的職業失能的那個量化的時候應該要看得到他是暫時的還是永久的因為你這樣我看不我看不出來啊那個14齁14是林兆業然後總計是32人32人的話我不知道他到底是多嚴重好不好看不出來\n203032\t225961\t包括這個職業私人、勞保局在做最後的那個職業私人的給付的時候會有不同的等級來判斷它是什麼樣的等級這個後台有比較細緻的資料那這個是統計分析的一個說明那我希望說在職業死亡的這個比如說每一個比如說22人好了那是不是每一個人的死亡的那個case study應該要有\n226781\t232227\t二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n242737\t244578\t二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11案及討論二、處理中華民國11案及討論\n258929\t263975\t二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n281385\t299393\t所有的安全衛生管理應該都是僱主負責僱主的責任那我們政府是監督端所以我們勞動監督檢查應該是重點做風險比較高的部分優先做監督檢查那比較屬於中低風險我們就期待僱主能夠有個管理系統做每天的正常的循環我意思是說這個量夠不夠這個檢察員的量夠不夠數量\n303735\t323277\t根本包括我們的臺灣的檢察員的配比跟勞工旅遊配比已經在國際應該算是正常的沒有太多配提你可以呈現這樣的數據讓大家知道說確實有做到這樣子可以嗎不然會覺得說你算偏低了然後我們這個工作安全都沒有人去把關\n324538\t328965\t二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n340101\t364963\t這種比較特殊行業或者說風險比較高的一些安全的建議好不好你明明知道他是做這個工作可是他卻不知道如何去規範或者說去一個準則讓他知道說怎麼樣的工作行為是安全的我沒有看到工作建議安全建議啊是不是應該要看到因為我去查的時候查不到所以為了安全建議\n366772\t394991\t各位報告其實比較高風險的部分我們所謂教育訓練應該會要求每個勞工有一定的教育訓練比如營造業我們3加3小時的教育訓練他才可以資格去現場做工作那這部分我們希望現場的監督管理入場管制就要了解他有沒有做教育訓練才能進場來作業關於那個墜落職災這個部分常常就是我們都知道是大包轉小包這樣給底下的下游廠商的採訪對大包的就是業主\n395931\t419183\t不痛不癢,那能不能透過樂立停工來真正嚇阻這樣的一個行為?部長覺得呢?各位有報告,其實我們的檢查如果它發生有立即危險之餘,我們不但處罰也會做停工。停工它提出復工的申請,那我們先來檢查去現場看復工,達到我們的安全標準才可以讓它復工。確實營造業部分這個算是我們的檢查的重點。\n421212\t437583\t我們其實這個很最主要的手段去檢查的時候發現違規就是希望是這樣那就是還有一些就是從事臨時工的派遣他發生意外的時候常常都是其實是這套腰包去坐車因為不敢被檢舉所以你這方面你知道嗎\n439601\t455080\t這個委員就是民眾會擔心我們有那個植栽黑樹那我們除了第一時間消防隊員跟我們的聯繫的平台有報告之外我們現在透過醫院端如果發現疑似是職業病或職業災害的部分也會透過我們這個系統來做回報那特別跟委員報告\n456175\t469268\t我們也不希望像這樣的事情會被隱瞞掉我們鼓勵當事人或當事朋友在我們職災通報裡面也給我們一些訊息所以我們在新的災報通過之後我們有職災通報的一個厚道網絡鼓勵有數據嗎?是\n472071\t486006\t有數據嗎 有數據再給我囉接下來就是說我們的那個勞檢的部分就是我們營造業跟製造業占了相當大的比例可是我們勞檢可能數目可能不夠那這方面你要怎麼做一個經濟改善\n490976\t508665\t各位報告好我還是強調說我們不是每一家事業單位都要去檢查是這種風險分級來做我們的監督檢查那事業端裡面也有設置安全管理人員他做自己內部的管理的系統的展開那我們也可以透過勞工的吹哨子或是\n509245\t514407\t二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n529132\t550052\t原住民組委員會有建立一個通報聯繫機制你們可以跟他們一個通報聯繫機制如果有發生質在的勞工告訴他們他們可以透過我們原住民的關懷或者是說我們一個叫家庭服務中心來一起來協助他們獲得社會的資源再最後一個就是說關於工作上歧視的問題挑到最後一個\n551704\t564949\t就是在OECD國家他有做一些研究然後就是對普遍的民眾做了一個對你如果你在工作上受到歧視的一個認知那我們台灣有沒有做這方面的研究像現在作業\n567547\t588239\t現在最好的是芬蘭大概是他們全民有大概超過70、將近80%的對一個在工作上遇到騷擾或者說歧視的時候它是一個合法的權益是全民都應該要知道的一個所謂的智能那希望勞動部這邊也可以推動全民的一個消除歧視工作上的歧視跟騷擾這樣子可以嗎?好謝謝盧憲宜委員\n","txt":"主席請許部長跟周署長請許部長跟周署長部長好盧委員好\n看到我就是看到原住民的問題那我們先看一下大概這兩年我們原住民因為植栽發生死亡的一個或者是說工傷的一個數據數據那看到那個數據就說民國111年原住民族整體災害千人率失能3.48跟前兩年比較是確實是有下降我們看到是這樣的數字不過如果從死亡率就是說最右邊\n兩行兩列這邊可以看到110年是0.062不過111年的時候是0.109應該是有將近兩倍那跟前109的話是增加了三倍所以它的雖然是整體的那個災害是減少了不過死亡數字是增加的那你們有沒有做這方面的一個關心或者是說研究\n這個問我請署長來說明一下謝謝謝謝委員確實去年跟前年我們原住民的職災死亡在工作上職災死亡是增加的這個我們知道所以我們其實這兩年特別針對那個部落的一些公安的宣導跟那個特別是透過他們的豐年祭什麼相關活動做很多的一些宣導活動展開\n二、處理中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論二、處理中華民國113案及討論\n議員提供的報告\n我特別關心原住民的議題所以早上看了勞動部的關於原住民的網頁當然他更新也是更新到今天應該是很認真在更新不過我看了瀏覽的人數看我們的勞工的人數是20萬可是真正去關心過這個網頁的我們的勞工人才3000人而已所以希望\n希望就是說你們在無論在我們原住民的一些勞工的權益啊、宣導啊應該讓他們知道說你們到底在努力什麼好不好不然很少人知道你們到底在做什麼的話沒有人知道去如何去尋求協助OK好那我們我希望這一個\n所謂的職業失能的那個量化的時候應該要看得到他是暫時的還是永久的因為你這樣我看不我看不出來啊那個14齁14是林兆業然後總計是32人32人的話我不知道他到底是多嚴重好不好看不出來\n包括這個職業私人、勞保局在做最後的那個職業私人的給付的時候會有不同的等級來判斷它是什麼樣的等級這個後台有比較細緻的資料那這個是統計分析的一個說明那我希望說在職業死亡的這個比如說每一個比如說22人好了那是不是每一個人的死亡的那個case study應該要有\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11案及討論二、處理中華民國11案及討論\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n所有的安全衛生管理應該都是僱主負責僱主的責任那我們政府是監督端所以我們勞動監督檢查應該是重點做風險比較高的部分優先做監督檢查那比較屬於中低風險我們就期待僱主能夠有個管理系統做每天的正常的循環我意思是說這個量夠不夠這個檢察員的量夠不夠數量\n根本包括我們的臺灣的檢察員的配比跟勞工旅遊配比已經在國際應該算是正常的沒有太多配提你可以呈現這樣的數據讓大家知道說確實有做到這樣子可以嗎不然會覺得說你算偏低了然後我們這個工作安全都沒有人去把關\n二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n這種比較特殊行業或者說風險比較高的一些安全的建議好不好你明明知道他是做這個工作可是他卻不知道如何去規範或者說去一個準則讓他知道說怎麼樣的工作行為是安全的我沒有看到工作建議安全建議啊是不是應該要看到因為我去查的時候查不到所以為了安全建議\n各位報告其實比較高風險的部分我們所謂教育訓練應該會要求每個勞工有一定的教育訓練比如營造業我們3加3小時的教育訓練他才可以資格去現場做工作那這部分我們希望現場的監督管理入場管制就要了解他有沒有做教育訓練才能進場來作業關於那個墜落職災這個部分常常就是我們都知道是大包轉小包這樣給底下的下游廠商的採訪對大包的就是業主\n不痛不癢,那能不能透過樂立停工來真正嚇阻這樣的一個行為?部長覺得呢?各位有報告,其實我們的檢查如果它發生有立即危險之餘,我們不但處罰也會做停工。停工它提出復工的申請,那我們先來檢查去現場看復工,達到我們的安全標準才可以讓它復工。確實營造業部分這個算是我們的檢查的重點。\n我們其實這個很最主要的手段去檢查的時候發現違規就是希望是這樣那就是還有一些就是從事臨時工的派遣他發生意外的時候常常都是其實是這套腰包去坐車因為不敢被檢舉所以你這方面你知道嗎\n這個委員就是民眾會擔心我們有那個植栽黑樹那我們除了第一時間消防隊員跟我們的聯繫的平台有報告之外我們現在透過醫院端如果發現疑似是職業病或職業災害的部分也會透過我們這個系統來做回報那特別跟委員報告\n我們也不希望像這樣的事情會被隱瞞掉我們鼓勵當事人或當事朋友在我們職災通報裡面也給我們一些訊息所以我們在新的災報通過之後我們有職災通報的一個厚道網絡鼓勵有數據嗎?是\n有數據嗎 有數據再給我囉接下來就是說我們的那個勞檢的部分就是我們營造業跟製造業占了相當大的比例可是我們勞檢可能數目可能不夠那這方面你要怎麼做一個經濟改善\n各位報告好我還是強調說我們不是每一家事業單位都要去檢查是這種風險分級來做我們的監督檢查那事業端裡面也有設置安全管理人員他做自己內部的管理的系統的展開那我們也可以透過勞工的吹哨子或是\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n原住民組委員會有建立一個通報聯繫機制你們可以跟他們一個通報聯繫機制如果有發生質在的勞工告訴他們他們可以透過我們原住民的關懷或者是說我們一個叫家庭服務中心來一起來協助他們獲得社會的資源再最後一個就是說關於工作上歧視的問題挑到最後一個\n就是在OECD國家他有做一些研究然後就是對普遍的民眾做了一個對你如果你在工作上受到歧視的一個認知那我們台灣有沒有做這方面的研究像現在作業\n現在最好的是芬蘭大概是他們全民有大概超過70、將近80%的對一個在工作上遇到騷擾或者說歧視的時候它是一個合法的權益是全民都應該要知道的一個所謂的智能那希望勞動部這邊也可以推動全民的一個消除歧視工作上的歧視跟騷擾這樣子可以嗎?好謝謝盧憲宜委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.606 --> 00:17.469\n主席請許部長跟周署長請許部長跟周署長部長好盧委員好\n\n00:18.858 --> 00:46.946\n看到我就是看到原住民的問題那我們先看一下大概這兩年我們原住民因為植栽發生死亡的一個或者是說工傷的一個數據數據那看到那個數據就說民國111年原住民族整體災害千人率失能3.48跟前兩年比較是確實是有下降我們看到是這樣的數字不過如果從死亡率就是說最右邊\n\n00:48.446 --> 01:13.543\n兩行兩列這邊可以看到110年是0.062不過111年的時候是0.109應該是有將近兩倍那跟前109的話是增加了三倍所以它的雖然是整體的那個災害是減少了不過死亡數字是增加的那你們有沒有做這方面的一個關心或者是說研究\n\n01:16.050 --> 01:36.762\n這個問我請署長來說明一下謝謝謝謝委員確實去年跟前年我們原住民的職災死亡在工作上職災死亡是增加的這個我們知道所以我們其實這兩年特別針對那個部落的一些公安的宣導跟那個特別是透過他們的豐年祭什麼相關活動做很多的一些宣導活動展開\n\n01:37.602 --> 01:39.543\n二、處理中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論二、處理中華民國113案及討論\n\n02:00.615 --> 02:01.115\n議員提供的報告\n\n02:17.304 --> 02:40.369\n我特別關心原住民的議題所以早上看了勞動部的關於原住民的網頁當然他更新也是更新到今天應該是很認真在更新不過我看了瀏覽的人數看我們的勞工的人數是20萬可是真正去關心過這個網頁的我們的勞工人才3000人而已所以希望\n\n02:41.329 --> 02:58.951\n希望就是說你們在無論在我們原住民的一些勞工的權益啊、宣導啊應該讓他們知道說你們到底在努力什麼好不好不然很少人知道你們到底在做什麼的話沒有人知道去如何去尋求協助OK好那我們我希望這一個\n\n03:00.802 --> 03:21.557\n所謂的職業失能的那個量化的時候應該要看得到他是暫時的還是永久的因為你這樣我看不我看不出來啊那個14齁14是林兆業然後總計是32人32人的話我不知道他到底是多嚴重好不好看不出來\n\n03:23.032 --> 03:45.961\n包括這個職業私人、勞保局在做最後的那個職業私人的給付的時候會有不同的等級來判斷它是什麼樣的等級這個後台有比較細緻的資料那這個是統計分析的一個說明那我希望說在職業死亡的這個比如說每一個比如說22人好了那是不是每一個人的死亡的那個casestudy應該要有\n\n03:46.781 --> 03:52.227\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n04:02.737 --> 04:04.578\n二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11案及討論二、處理中華民國11案及討論\n\n04:18.929 --> 04:23.975\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n04:41.385 --> 04:59.393\n所有的安全衛生管理應該都是僱主負責僱主的責任那我們政府是監督端所以我們勞動監督檢查應該是重點做風險比較高的部分優先做監督檢查那比較屬於中低風險我們就期待僱主能夠有個管理系統做每天的正常的循環我意思是說這個量夠不夠這個檢察員的量夠不夠數量\n\n05:03.735 --> 05:23.277\n根本包括我們的臺灣的檢察員的配比跟勞工旅遊配比已經在國際應該算是正常的沒有太多配提你可以呈現這樣的數據讓大家知道說確實有做到這樣子可以嗎不然會覺得說你算偏低了然後我們這個工作安全都沒有人去把關\n\n05:24.538 --> 05:28.965\n二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n\n05:40.101 --> 06:04.963\n這種比較特殊行業或者說風險比較高的一些安全的建議好不好你明明知道他是做這個工作可是他卻不知道如何去規範或者說去一個準則讓他知道說怎麼樣的工作行為是安全的我沒有看到工作建議安全建議啊是不是應該要看到因為我去查的時候查不到所以為了安全建議\n\n06:06.772 --> 06:34.991\n各位報告其實比較高風險的部分我們所謂教育訓練應該會要求每個勞工有一定的教育訓練比如營造業我們3加3小時的教育訓練他才可以資格去現場做工作那這部分我們希望現場的監督管理入場管制就要了解他有沒有做教育訓練才能進場來作業關於那個墜落職災這個部分常常就是我們都知道是大包轉小包這樣給底下的下游廠商的採訪對大包的就是業主\n\n06:35.931 --> 06:59.183\n不痛不癢,那能不能透過樂立停工來真正嚇阻這樣的一個行為?部長覺得呢?各位有報告,其實我們的檢查如果它發生有立即危險之餘,我們不但處罰也會做停工。停工它提出復工的申請,那我們先來檢查去現場看復工,達到我們的安全標準才可以讓它復工。確實營造業部分這個算是我們的檢查的重點。\n\n07:01.212 --> 07:17.583\n我們其實這個很最主要的手段去檢查的時候發現違規就是希望是這樣那就是還有一些就是從事臨時工的派遣他發生意外的時候常常都是其實是這套腰包去坐車因為不敢被檢舉所以你這方面你知道嗎\n\n07:19.601 --> 07:35.080\n這個委員就是民眾會擔心我們有那個植栽黑樹那我們除了第一時間消防隊員跟我們的聯繫的平台有報告之外我們現在透過醫院端如果發現疑似是職業病或職業災害的部分也會透過我們這個系統來做回報那特別跟委員報告\n\n07:36.175 --> 07:49.268\n我們也不希望像這樣的事情會被隱瞞掉我們鼓勵當事人或當事朋友在我們職災通報裡面也給我們一些訊息所以我們在新的災報通過之後我們有職災通報的一個厚道網絡鼓勵有數據嗎?是\n\n07:52.071 --> 08:06.006\n有數據嗎有數據再給我囉接下來就是說我們的那個勞檢的部分就是我們營造業跟製造業占了相當大的比例可是我們勞檢可能數目可能不夠那這方面你要怎麼做一個經濟改善\n\n08:10.976 --> 08:28.665\n各位報告好我還是強調說我們不是每一家事業單位都要去檢查是這種風險分級來做我們的監督檢查那事業端裡面也有設置安全管理人員他做自己內部的管理的系統的展開那我們也可以透過勞工的吹哨子或是\n\n08:29.245 --> 08:34.407\n二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論\n\n08:49.132 --> 09:10.052\n原住民組委員會有建立一個通報聯繫機制你們可以跟他們一個通報聯繫機制如果有發生質在的勞工告訴他們他們可以透過我們原住民的關懷或者是說我們一個叫家庭服務中心來一起來協助他們獲得社會的資源再最後一個就是說關於工作上歧視的問題挑到最後一個\n\n09:11.704 --> 09:24.949\n就是在OECD國家他有做一些研究然後就是對普遍的民眾做了一個對你如果你在工作上受到歧視的一個認知那我們台灣有沒有做這方面的研究像現在作業\n\n09:27.547 --> 09:48.239\n現在最好的是芬蘭大概是他們全民有大概超過70、將近80%的對一個在工作上遇到騷擾或者說歧視的時候它是一個合法的權益是全民都應該要知道的一個所謂的智能那希望勞動部這邊也可以推動全民的一個消除歧視工作上的歧視跟騷擾這樣子可以嗎?好謝謝盧憲宜委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.606,"end":17.469,"text":"主席請許部長跟周署長請許部長跟周署長部長好盧委員好"},{"start":18.858,"end":46.946,"text":"看到我就是看到原住民的問題那我們先看一下大概這兩年我們原住民因為植栽發生死亡的一個或者是說工傷的一個數據數據那看到那個數據就說民國111年原住民族整體災害千人率失能3.48跟前兩年比較是確實是有下降我們看到是這樣的數字不過如果從死亡率就是說最右邊"},{"start":48.446,"end":73.543,"text":"兩行兩列這邊可以看到110年是0.062不過111年的時候是0.109應該是有將近兩倍那跟前109的話是增加了三倍所以它的雖然是整體的那個災害是減少了不過死亡數字是增加的那你們有沒有做這方面的一個關心或者是說研究"},{"start":76.05,"end":96.762,"text":"這個問我請署長來說明一下謝謝謝謝委員確實去年跟前年我們原住民的職災死亡在工作上職災死亡是增加的這個我們知道所以我們其實這兩年特別針對那個部落的一些公安的宣導跟那個特別是透過他們的豐年祭什麼相關活動做很多的一些宣導活動展開"},{"start":97.602,"end":99.543,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論二、處理中華民國113案及討論"},{"start":120.615,"end":121.115,"text":"議員提供的報告"},{"start":137.304,"end":160.369,"text":"我特別關心原住民的議題所以早上看了勞動部的關於原住民的網頁當然他更新也是更新到今天應該是很認真在更新不過我看了瀏覽的人數看我們的勞工的人數是20萬可是真正去關心過這個網頁的我們的勞工人才3000人而已所以希望"},{"start":161.329,"end":178.951,"text":"希望就是說你們在無論在我們原住民的一些勞工的權益啊、宣導啊應該讓他們知道說你們到底在努力什麼好不好不然很少人知道你們到底在做什麼的話沒有人知道去如何去尋求協助OK好那我們我希望這一個"},{"start":180.802,"end":201.557,"text":"所謂的職業失能的那個量化的時候應該要看得到他是暫時的還是永久的因為你這樣我看不我看不出來啊那個14齁14是林兆業然後總計是32人32人的話我不知道他到底是多嚴重好不好看不出來"},{"start":203.032,"end":225.961,"text":"包括這個職業私人、勞保局在做最後的那個職業私人的給付的時候會有不同的等級來判斷它是什麼樣的等級這個後台有比較細緻的資料那這個是統計分析的一個說明那我希望說在職業死亡的這個比如說每一個比如說22人好了那是不是每一個人的死亡的那個case study應該要有"},{"start":226.781,"end":232.227,"text":"二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論"},{"start":242.737,"end":244.578,"text":"二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11案及討論二、處理中華民國11案及討論"},{"start":258.929,"end":263.975,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論"},{"start":281.385,"end":299.393,"text":"所有的安全衛生管理應該都是僱主負責僱主的責任那我們政府是監督端所以我們勞動監督檢查應該是重點做風險比較高的部分優先做監督檢查那比較屬於中低風險我們就期待僱主能夠有個管理系統做每天的正常的循環我意思是說這個量夠不夠這個檢察員的量夠不夠數量"},{"start":303.735,"end":323.277,"text":"根本包括我們的臺灣的檢察員的配比跟勞工旅遊配比已經在國際應該算是正常的沒有太多配提你可以呈現這樣的數據讓大家知道說確實有做到這樣子可以嗎不然會覺得說你算偏低了然後我們這個工作安全都沒有人去把關"},{"start":324.538,"end":328.965,"text":"二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度"},{"start":340.101,"end":364.963,"text":"這種比較特殊行業或者說風險比較高的一些安全的建議好不好你明明知道他是做這個工作可是他卻不知道如何去規範或者說去一個準則讓他知道說怎麼樣的工作行為是安全的我沒有看到工作建議安全建議啊是不是應該要看到因為我去查的時候查不到所以為了安全建議"},{"start":366.772,"end":394.991,"text":"各位報告其實比較高風險的部分我們所謂教育訓練應該會要求每個勞工有一定的教育訓練比如營造業我們3加3小時的教育訓練他才可以資格去現場做工作那這部分我們希望現場的監督管理入場管制就要了解他有沒有做教育訓練才能進場來作業關於那個墜落職災這個部分常常就是我們都知道是大包轉小包這樣給底下的下游廠商的採訪對大包的就是業主"},{"start":395.931,"end":419.183,"text":"不痛不癢,那能不能透過樂立停工來真正嚇阻這樣的一個行為?部長覺得呢?各位有報告,其實我們的檢查如果它發生有立即危險之餘,我們不但處罰也會做停工。停工它提出復工的申請,那我們先來檢查去現場看復工,達到我們的安全標準才可以讓它復工。確實營造業部分這個算是我們的檢查的重點。"},{"start":421.212,"end":437.583,"text":"我們其實這個很最主要的手段去檢查的時候發現違規就是希望是這樣那就是還有一些就是從事臨時工的派遣他發生意外的時候常常都是其實是這套腰包去坐車因為不敢被檢舉所以你這方面你知道嗎"},{"start":439.601,"end":455.08,"text":"這個委員就是民眾會擔心我們有那個植栽黑樹那我們除了第一時間消防隊員跟我們的聯繫的平台有報告之外我們現在透過醫院端如果發現疑似是職業病或職業災害的部分也會透過我們這個系統來做回報那特別跟委員報告"},{"start":456.175,"end":469.268,"text":"我們也不希望像這樣的事情會被隱瞞掉我們鼓勵當事人或當事朋友在我們職災通報裡面也給我們一些訊息所以我們在新的災報通過之後我們有職災通報的一個厚道網絡鼓勵有數據嗎?是"},{"start":472.071,"end":486.006,"text":"有數據嗎 有數據再給我囉接下來就是說我們的那個勞檢的部分就是我們營造業跟製造業占了相當大的比例可是我們勞檢可能數目可能不夠那這方面你要怎麼做一個經濟改善"},{"start":490.976,"end":508.665,"text":"各位報告好我還是強調說我們不是每一家事業單位都要去檢查是這種風險分級來做我們的監督檢查那事業端裡面也有設置安全管理人員他做自己內部的管理的系統的展開那我們也可以透過勞工的吹哨子或是"},{"start":509.245,"end":514.407,"text":"二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及討論二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及討論"},{"start":529.132,"end":550.052,"text":"原住民組委員會有建立一個通報聯繫機制你們可以跟他們一個通報聯繫機制如果有發生質在的勞工告訴他們他們可以透過我們原住民的關懷或者是說我們一個叫家庭服務中心來一起來協助他們獲得社會的資源再最後一個就是說關於工作上歧視的問題挑到最後一個"},{"start":551.704,"end":564.949,"text":"就是在OECD國家他有做一些研究然後就是對普遍的民眾做了一個對你如果你在工作上受到歧視的一個認知那我們台灣有沒有做這方面的研究像現在作業"},{"start":567.547,"end":588.239,"text":"現在最好的是芬蘭大概是他們全民有大概超過70、將近80%的對一個在工作上遇到騷擾或者說歧視的時候它是一個合法的權益是全民都應該要知道的一個所謂的智能那希望勞動部這邊也可以推動全民的一個消除歧視工作上的歧視跟騷擾這樣子可以嗎?好謝謝盧憲宜委員"}]}}}}