{"id":150370,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150370","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b04282d6dfc67afd9e5559e54a1be29d3f8ba9b0039caa7a6790d974d09a95bb25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:52:28 - 12:02:05","影片長度":"00:09:37","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案(含報告事項20案及討論事項1案)。\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-8"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":577,"end_time":"2024-03-25T12:02:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T11:52:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":878,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時52分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。蔡英文總統說勞工是她心裡面最軟的一塊，這個理念我支持，但是不是真的是這個樣子，則必須要經過檢驗。","敬鵬大火的時候，有五位消防員殉職，總統承諾不會讓他們白白犧牲，這是2018年的事情，現在已經2024年了，我們的消防弟兄最在意的就是，當他們在執行職務的時候，到底有什麼辦法可以保護他們？結果研議了六年，各個單位到此刻都還在踢皮球！從人事總處踢到保訓會再踢到消防署，我剛剛還沒有點名到勞動部，但我們最近與消防弟兄們舉行了一場座談，因為我希望第一線傾聽他們的心聲、瞭解他們真正要的是什麼，他們的立場現在很簡單，消防弟兄們認為公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法根本沒有用，他們現在的訴求很清楚，就是全面適用職業安全衛生法，部長贊不贊成？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，院的層級這邊有開過會，因為消防員……"],["黃委員國昌：院的層級開過會，誰主持的？"],["許部長銘春：鄭副院長。"],["黃委員國昌：由鄭文燦主持的，會議的結論是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：會議結論是我們在消防法的……"],["黃委員國昌：我現在就明確的跟你講，消防弟兄他們就不希望在消防法裡增訂，他們認為消防署根本沒有專業可以保護他們的職業安全衛生，他們現在希望的是全面適用職業安全衛生法，身為部長，聽到我們的打火英雄提出這樣的訴求，同不同意？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，保護消防員的安全，這個部分我是絕對支持……"],["黃委員國昌：不要講空話，講具體的內容。"],["許部長銘春：只是適用的法律問題，因為這個部分權責機關在內政部消防署，消防署目前也有在跟消防……"],["黃委員國昌：我就很明確的跟你講，消防弟兄就是不贊成消防署將相關規定放在消防法裡。你先不要管消防署怎麼講，我現在是請教你，從勞動部長的角度，對於打火英雄這樣的訴求，你有什麼樣子的看法？贊不贊成？你也可以講一句，說礙難照辦、做不到，這個也是一個答案嘛！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我的意思是，我是一定支持保障他的職業安全，只是要訂在哪一個法系裡面不是我能夠決定。"],["黃委員國昌：所以拍板的是鄭文燦，對不對？是不是？你們說你們院裡面有開會嘛！主席是鄭文燦嘛！"],["許部長銘春：他有召集相關部會來討論，但是大家立場是一致的，就是要保障我們消防兄弟的安全……"],["黃委員國昌：好！沒有關係喔！之前部長曾經說過警消人員的保護不能低於勞工朋友。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["黃委員國昌：你也是在這個會議室裡對其他的立委做這樣的宣示嘛！我們到時候具體地檢驗，看到時候你們所要推出來的法律是不是有低於勞工朋友。下一個我比較好奇的事情是，民間的消防隊勞工適用的是什麼法？"],["許部長銘春：民間的消防隊勞工適用的是職安法。"],["黃委員國昌：那就奇怪啦！民間的消防隊勞工適用職安法，我們真正的消防弟兄卻不適用職安法，這是一國兩制。民間的保護反而比我們政府聘任的保護更好，是這樣嗎？"],["許部長銘春：主要是身分的不同……"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛！現在你又在講身分，但我跟你講的是實質嘛！民間的消防隊可以適用職安法嘛！而我們自己的打火弟兄卻沒有辦法適用職安法嘛！這不是一國兩制嗎？這哪裡有我們的消防員受的保護會比較好或者是不會低於勞工朋友？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為消防員還是公務人員啦……"],["黃委員國昌：公務人員是身分的問題，這個我了解嘛！公務人員的身分保障、考銓我都了解嘛！現在我們在講的是，公務人員在實際從事勞動行為時所應該要受到的保護嘛！"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["黃委員國昌：部長，你不會覺得很奇怪嗎？民間的消防隊適用職安法，結果我們的打火弟兄希望比照適用職安法，我們的政府就拖拖拉拉、藉口一堆。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我剛剛就有講，現在就是院希望我們在消防法裡專章……"],["黃委員國昌：好，沒有關係啦！部長，你今天在這邊的回答，我相信全國的打火弟兄都聽到了，你有你的立場，至於他們接不接受，那是另外一個問題。","蔡總統在上任的時候曾說過勞工政策六大保障，部長，你覺得在蔡總統快要卸任的時候，這勞工政策六大保障政見達成率有多少？你打幾分？"],["許部長銘春：我不自己打分數啦！不過我們大部分的政見都……"],["黃委員國昌：大部分的政見都怎麼樣？"],["許部長銘春：這六大保障我們應該都有做到。"],["黃委員國昌：都有做到？好，我們一樣一樣看。今天因為時間的關係，我也不曉得主席會給我延多久時間，但我就尊重主席的裁示啦！臺灣人月薪平均58,545元，這是我們主計總處所言，請問這個有反映實際的狀況嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這是平均……"],["黃委員國昌：對，這個我了解嘛！部長，請問你知不知道有多少人沒有達到這個平均值？"],["許部長銘春：至少一半以上吧。"],["黃委員國昌：你身為部長，我老實講啦！薪資的distribution你要比我還熟啊！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們在政府可以……"],["黃委員國昌：我秀給部長看，有70%以上的勞工月薪低於平均數，我從來不講空洞的東西啊！我一定拿具體的數字出來講，更重要的事情是，低於平均薪資的勞工比例年年攀升，這代表什麼意思？顯示薪資結構的扭曲，在平均薪資以下的勞工比例越來越高，從勞動部的角度而言，我必須要講，這是一個警訊！更重要的事情是我們的薪資年增率遠遠落後於南韓，這是央行做出來的數字，顯示臺灣的薪資年增率遠遠落後於南韓。原因是什麼？因為我們勞工報酬占GDP比例不斷的下降嘛！做為勞動部的部長，您認為臺灣過去這幾年整個經濟成長的果實有公平地分配到勞工身上嗎？"],["許部長銘春：當然還不足啦……"],["黃委員國昌：當然還不足嘛！好，不足。做為勞動部的部長，您認為應該要怎麼樣努力才可以讓我們的勞工可以分配到經濟成長的果實？具體的辦法是什麼？你也承認不足了嘛！那我現在請教你，具體的辦法是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，勞工薪資的提升是要跨部會來努力啦……"],["黃委員國昌：所以你的意思是不是只有你勞動部的事嘛！要跨部會來努力嘛！說得很好，請問要如何跨部會來努力？你總不能講空話嘛……"],["許部長銘春：是……"],["黃委員國昌：如何跨部會來努力？現在我在請教你的問題是你的具體措施到底是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：勞動部就是會每年調整基本工資，以政府的基本工資調升來帶動……"],["黃委員國昌：部長，你有看央行的那份報告嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我看到了，報告委員，南韓……"],["黃委員國昌：央行提供了一個最重要的政策建議，對勞動部而言，你知道是什麼嗎？"],["許部長銘春：央行是認為我們對於調整幅度可以再更……"],["黃委員國昌：你贊不贊成央行的看法？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們這幾年是因為也碰到疫情……"],["主席：那個……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係啦！我尊重啦！我知道我不是本委員會的委員啦！本委員會的委員可以延長的時間比較多啦！非本委員會的委員，我尊重主席的裁示啊！","好，謝謝。"],["主席：委員已經超過4分鐘了。好，那是不是請……"],["黃委員國昌：剛剛的委員超過的時間只有4分鐘嗎？"],["主席：再請那個……"],["黃委員國昌：你要不要調會議紀錄出來看？你這樣主持議事有中立嗎？"],["主席：4分鐘啊！議事人員說你已經超過4分鐘了。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！前一個委員超過多少時間？"],["主席：前一個委員是本委員會的委員。"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛！所以我說我非本委員會委員，我尊重你嘛！"],["主席：是啊！好，接下來請賴士葆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-8","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","王育敏","盧縣一","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","黃國昌","賴士葆","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","徐巧芯","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-25"],"gazette_id":"1131901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實\n職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動\n部主管預算凍結案21案（含報告事項20案及討論事項1案）","agenda_id":"1131901_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150370","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150370","tool":"pyannote","id":"150370-pyannote"},"job_id":"eLasnJZKBFDyjXu0","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 572.556, \"end\": 572.778, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 572.778, \"end\": 573.201, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 573.201, \"end\": 573.362, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 573.362, \"end\": 573.503, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 573.503, \"end\": 573.685, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 573.685, \"end\": 573.705, \"score\": 0.171}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:17,090 --> 00:00:19,772\n謝謝主席麻煩有請部長請許部長黃委員好部長好蔡英文總統說勞工是她心裡面最軟的這一塊這個理念我支持但是真的是這個樣子必須要經過檢驗\n\n2\n00:00:38,450 --> 00:01:05,776\n近紅大火的時候五個消防員續職總統承諾不會讓他們白白犧牲這是2018年的事情現在已經2024年了結果我們的消防弟兄最在意的事情是他們在執行職務的時候到底有什麼辦法可以去保護他們研議了六年各個單位都還在踢皮球從人事總處\n\n3\n00:01:07,156 --> 00:01:31,255\n提到保訓會提到消防署我剛還沒有點名到勞動部但我們最近跟消防弟兄舉行了一場座談因為我希望第一線聽他們的心聲他們真的要的是什麼他們的立場現在很簡單這一個公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法\n\n4\n00:01:32,486 --> 00:01:40,509\n根本沒有用他們現在的訴求很清楚全面適用職業安全衛生法部長贊不贊成因為這個院的陳琦這邊有開過會院的陳琦開過會誰主持的誰主持的\n\n5\n00:01:57,402 --> 00:02:24,731\n鄭副院長鄭文燦主持的會議的結論是什麼會議的結論是說我們在消防法的那我現在就明確的跟你講嘛消防弟兄他們就不要在消防法裡面增訂嘛他們認為消防署根本沒有那個專業嘛可以保護他們的職業安全衛生嘛他們現在希望的是全面適用職業安全衛生法身為部長聽到我們的打火英雄提出這樣的訴求\n\n6\n00:02:26,411 --> 00:02:49,307\n同不同意?這個報告委員保護消防員的安全這個部分我是絕對支持不要講空話啦講具體的適用的法律因為這個部分權責機關在內政部消防署消防署目前也有在跟消防公會的弟兄在做討論消防弟兄就不贊成消防署放在消防法裡面嘛\n\n7\n00:02:50,427 --> 00:03:12,972\n你先不要去管消防署怎麼講啦我現在是請教你從勞動部長的角度對於打火英雄這樣的訴求你有什麼樣子的看法贊不贊成你可以講一句啊說愛難照辦做不當這個也是一個答案嘛報告委員我的意思是說保障他的職業安全這是我一定支持的啦\n\n8\n00:03:13,712 --> 00:03:37,310\n只是說你要齁這個在哪一個法律系裡面這不是我能夠來做決定啦所以拍板的是鄭文燦嘛對不對是不是你們說你們院裡面有開會嘛主席是鄭文燦嘛就是說他有召集相關部會來做討論但是大家立場是一致的好沒有關係齁之前部長曾經說過警消人員的保護不能低於勞工朋友\n\n9\n00:03:38,547 --> 00:04:04,239\n你也是在這個會議室裡面對其他的立委做這樣的宣示嘛我們到時候具體的檢驗看到時候你們所要推出來的法律是不是有低於勞工朋友那我下一個比較好奇的事情是民間的消防隊勞工他們適用的是什麼法民間的消防隊勞工適用的是我們職安法那就奇怪啦\n\n10\n00:04:05,526 --> 00:04:33,275\n民間的消防隊勞工適用職安法我們真正的消防弟兄不是用職安法這是一國兩制民間的保護反而比我們政府聘的還要好是這樣嗎主要是身份的不同對嘛現在你又在講身份但我跟你講的是實職嘛民間的消防隊我剛有講就是實職的安保可以適用到職安法嘛\n\n11\n00:04:34,488 --> 00:04:48,789\n那我們自己的打火弟兄沒有辦法適用職安法嗎這不是一國兩制嗎這哪裡有我們的消防員受的保護會比較好或者是不會低因為消防員他還是公務人員\n\n12\n00:04:49,690 --> 00:05:17,182\n公務人員是身份的問題這個我了解吧公務人員的身份保障他的考權這個我都了解嘛現在我們在講的是他在實際做他的勞動行為的時候他所應該要受到的保護嘛部長你不會覺得很奇怪嗎民間的消防隊是用職安法結果我們的打火弟兄希望比照是用職安法我們的政府卻在拖拖拉拉的藉口一堆\n\n13\n00:05:20,561 --> 00:05:43,559\n這個報告我剛剛就講說現在就是希望就是說我們在沒有關係啦部長你今天在這邊的回答齁我相信全國的打火弟兄都聽到了你有你的立場他們接不接受那是另外一個問題好蔡總統啊上任的時候他說啊勞工政策六大保障\n\n14\n00:05:44,680 --> 00:06:12,332\n部長你覺得在蔡總統快要卸任的時候這勞工政策六大保障政見達成率有多少你打幾分分數是我不自己打分數不過我們大部分的政見都大部分的政見都怎麼樣這個六大保障我們應該都有去做到都有做到好來我們一樣一樣看今天時間的關係我也不曉得主席會給我延多久但\n\n15\n00:06:13,530 --> 00:06:40,343\n我就尊重主席的才事啦台灣人月薪平均58,545這是我們主計總署講的這個有反映實際的狀況嗎這是平均嘛對這個我了解嘛有多少人沒有達到這個平均值部長你知不知道部長你知不知道有多少人沒有達到這個平均值至少一半以上吧\n\n16\n00:06:41,485 --> 00:06:46,552\n你作為部長我老實講薪資的distribution你要比我還熟\n\n17\n00:06:48,391 --> 00:07:11,342\n來我秀給部長看啊百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的我從來不講空洞的東西啊我一定拿具體的數字出來講百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的但更重要的事情是什麼低於平均薪資的勞工比例啊年年攀升\n\n18\n00:07:12,402 --> 00:07:30,777\n這代表什麼意思薪資結構的扭曲在平均薪資以下的勞工比例越來越高從勞動部的角度上面來講我必須要講這是一個警訊但更重要的事情是什麼但更重要的事情是我們的薪資年增率\n\n19\n00:07:32,406 --> 00:07:58,311\n遠遠落後於南韓這個數字喔是央行做出來的喔央行做出來的數字說台灣的薪資年增率遠遠落後於南韓但是為了是什麼因為我們勞工佔GDP比例不斷的下降嘛作為勞動部的部長您認為台灣過去這幾年整個經濟成長的果實有公平的分配到勞工身上嗎\n\n20\n00:08:01,918 --> 00:08:12,618\n這個當然還不足啦這個當然還不足嘛好不足那作為勞動部部長你認為應該要怎麼樣努力才可以讓我們的勞工他可以分配到我們經濟成長的果實\n\n21\n00:08:15,236 --> 00:08:32,755\n具體的辦法是什麼你也承認不足了嘛那我現在請教你具體的辦法是什麼報告委員吼其實勞工薪資的一個提升吼是要跨部會啦吼來努力啦吼所以你的意思就是不管你勞動部不是不是只有你勞動部的事嘛要跨部會來努力嘛跨部會來努力啊說得很好\n\n22\n00:08:34,116 --> 00:08:59,873\n那要如何跨部會來努力你總不能講空話嘛如何跨部會來努力現在我在請教你的是你具體的措施到底是什麼嗎勞動部的話我們就是每年調整基本工資以政府的一個基本工資的調整來帶動央行的那份報告部長你有看嗎我看到了但是報告委員也難含喔沒有錯他央行提供一個最重要的政策建議對勞動部來講是什麼你知道嗎\n\n23\n00:09:02,435 --> 00:09:23,285\n他是認為我們調整幅度上可以再更你贊不贊成央行的看法報告委員我們這幾年是這樣子因為也碰到疫情沒有關係啦我尊重啦我知道我不是本委員會的委員啦本委員會的委員研的時間可以比較多啦非本委員會的委員我尊重主席的才是啦好謝謝剛剛超過時間只有4分鐘嗎你要不要調會議記錄出來看\n\n24\n00:09:32,154 --> 00:09:33,705\n你這樣主持議事有中立嗎?\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n17090\t19772\t謝謝主席 麻煩有請部長請許部長黃委員好部長好蔡英文總統說勞工是她心裡面最軟的這一塊這個理念我支持但是真的是這個樣子必須要經過檢驗\n38450\t65776\t近紅大火的時候五個消防員續職總統承諾不會讓他們白白犧牲這是2018年的事情現在已經2024年了結果我們的消防弟兄最在意的事情是他們在執行職務的時候到底有什麼辦法可以去保護他們研議了六年各個單位都還在踢皮球從人事總處\n67156\t91255\t提到保訓會提到消防署我剛還沒有點名到勞動部但我們最近跟消防弟兄舉行了一場座談因為我希望第一線聽他們的心聲他們真的要的是什麼他們的立場現在很簡單這一個公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法\n92486\t100509\t根本沒有用他們現在的訴求很清楚全面適用職業安全衛生法部長贊不贊成因為這個院的陳琦這邊有開過會院的陳琦開過會誰主持的誰主持的\n117402\t144731\t鄭副院長鄭文燦主持的會議的結論是什麼會議的結論是說我們在消防法的那我現在就明確的跟你講嘛消防弟兄他們就不要在消防法裡面增訂嘛他們認為消防署根本沒有那個專業嘛可以保護他們的職業安全衛生嘛他們現在希望的是全面適用職業安全衛生法身為部長聽到我們的打火英雄提出這樣的訴求\n146411\t169307\t同不同意?這個報告委員保護消防員的安全這個部分我是絕對支持不要講空話啦講具體的適用的法律因為這個部分權責機關在內政部消防署消防署目前也有在跟消防公會的弟兄在做討論消防弟兄就不贊成消防署放在消防法裡面嘛\n170427\t192972\t你先不要去管消防署怎麼講啦我現在是請教你從勞動部長的角度對於打火英雄這樣的訴求你有什麼樣子的看法 贊不贊成你可以講一句啊說愛難照辦 做不當這個也是一個答案嘛報告委員 我的意思是說保障他的職業安全這是我一定支持的啦\n193712\t217310\t只是說你要齁這個在哪一個法律系裡面這不是我能夠來做決定啦所以拍板的是鄭文燦嘛對不對是不是你們說你們院裡面有開會嘛主席是鄭文燦嘛就是說他有召集相關部會來做討論但是大家立場是一致的好沒有關係齁之前部長曾經說過警消人員的保護不能低於勞工朋友\n218547\t244239\t你也是在這個會議室裡面對其他的立委做這樣的宣示嘛我們到時候具體的檢驗看到時候你們所要推出來的法律是不是有低於勞工朋友那我下一個比較好奇的事情是民間的消防隊勞工他們適用的是什麼法民間的消防隊勞工適用的是我們職安法那就奇怪啦\n245526\t273275\t民間的消防隊勞工適用職安法我們真正的消防弟兄不是用職安法這是一國兩制民間的保護反而比我們政府聘的還要好是這樣嗎主要是身份的不同對嘛現在你又在講身份但我跟你講的是實職嘛民間的消防隊我剛有講就是實職的安保可以適用到職安法嘛\n274488\t288789\t那我們自己的打火弟兄沒有辦法適用職安法嗎這不是一國兩制嗎這哪裡有我們的消防員受的保護會比較好或者是不會低因為消防員他還是公務人員\n289690\t317182\t公務人員是身份的問題這個我了解吧公務人員的身份保障他的考權這個我都了解嘛現在我們在講的是他在實際做他的勞動行為的時候他所應該要受到的保護嘛部長你不會覺得很奇怪嗎民間的消防隊是用職安法結果我們的打火弟兄希望比照是用職安法我們的政府卻在拖拖拉拉的藉口一堆\n320561\t343559\t這個報告我剛剛就講說現在就是希望就是說我們在沒有關係啦部長你今天在這邊的回答齁我相信全國的打火弟兄都聽到了你有你的立場他們接不接受那是另外一個問題好蔡總統啊上任的時候他說啊勞工政策六大保障\n344680\t372332\t部長你覺得在蔡總統快要卸任的時候這勞工政策六大保障政見達成率有多少你打幾分分數是我不自己打分數不過我們大部分的政見都大部分的政見都怎麼樣這個六大保障我們應該都有去做到都有做到好來我們一樣一樣看今天時間的關係我也不曉得主席會給我延多久但\n373530\t400343\t我就尊重主席的才事啦台灣人月薪平均58,545這是我們主計總署講的這個有反映實際的狀況嗎這是平均嘛對 這個我了解嘛有多少人沒有達到這個平均值部長你知不知道部長你知不知道有多少人沒有達到這個平均值至少一半以上吧\n401485\t406552\t你作為部長我老實講薪資的distribution你要比我還熟\n408391\t431342\t來我秀給部長看啊百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的我從來不講空洞的東西啊我一定拿具體的數字出來講百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的但更重要的事情是什麼低於平均薪資的勞工比例啊年年攀升\n432402\t450777\t這代表什麼意思薪資結構的扭曲在平均薪資以下的勞工比例越來越高從勞動部的角度上面來講我必須要講這是一個警訊但更重要的事情是什麼但更重要的事情是我們的薪資年增率\n452406\t478311\t遠遠落後於南韓這個數字喔是央行做出來的喔央行做出來的數字說台灣的薪資年增率遠遠落後於南韓但是為了是什麼因為我們勞工佔GDP比例不斷的下降嘛作為勞動部的部長您認為台灣過去這幾年整個經濟成長的果實有公平的分配到勞工身上嗎\n481918\t492618\t這個當然還不足啦這個當然還不足嘛好不足那作為勞動部部長你認為應該要怎麼樣努力才可以讓我們的勞工他可以分配到我們經濟成長的果實\n495236\t512755\t具體的辦法是什麼你也承認不足了嘛那我現在請教你具體的辦法是什麼報告委員吼其實勞工薪資的一個提升吼是要跨部會啦吼來努力啦吼所以你的意思就是不管你勞動部不是不是只有你勞動部的事嘛要跨部會來努力嘛跨部會來努力啊說得很好\n514116\t539873\t那要如何跨部會來努力你總不能講空話嘛如何跨部會來努力現在我在請教你的是你具體的措施到底是什麼嗎勞動部的話我們就是每年調整基本工資以政府的一個基本工資的調整來帶動央行的那份報告部長你有看嗎我看到了但是報告委員也難含喔沒有錯他央行提供一個最重要的政策建議對勞動部來講是什麼你知道嗎\n542435\t563285\t他是認為我們調整幅度上可以再更你贊不贊成央行的看法報告委員我們這幾年是這樣子因為也碰到疫情沒有關係啦我尊重啦我知道我不是本委員會的委員啦本委員會的委員研的時間可以比較多啦非本委員會的委員我尊重主席的才是啦好謝謝剛剛超過時間只有4分鐘嗎你要不要調會議記錄出來看\n572154\t573705\t你這樣主持議事有中立嗎?\n","txt":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請部長請許部長黃委員好部長好蔡英文總統說勞工是她心裡面最軟的這一塊這個理念我支持但是真的是這個樣子必須要經過檢驗\n近紅大火的時候五個消防員續職總統承諾不會讓他們白白犧牲這是2018年的事情現在已經2024年了結果我們的消防弟兄最在意的事情是他們在執行職務的時候到底有什麼辦法可以去保護他們研議了六年各個單位都還在踢皮球從人事總處\n提到保訓會提到消防署我剛還沒有點名到勞動部但我們最近跟消防弟兄舉行了一場座談因為我希望第一線聽他們的心聲他們真的要的是什麼他們的立場現在很簡單這一個公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法\n根本沒有用他們現在的訴求很清楚全面適用職業安全衛生法部長贊不贊成因為這個院的陳琦這邊有開過會院的陳琦開過會誰主持的誰主持的\n鄭副院長鄭文燦主持的會議的結論是什麼會議的結論是說我們在消防法的那我現在就明確的跟你講嘛消防弟兄他們就不要在消防法裡面增訂嘛他們認為消防署根本沒有那個專業嘛可以保護他們的職業安全衛生嘛他們現在希望的是全面適用職業安全衛生法身為部長聽到我們的打火英雄提出這樣的訴求\n同不同意?這個報告委員保護消防員的安全這個部分我是絕對支持不要講空話啦講具體的適用的法律因為這個部分權責機關在內政部消防署消防署目前也有在跟消防公會的弟兄在做討論消防弟兄就不贊成消防署放在消防法裡面嘛\n你先不要去管消防署怎麼講啦我現在是請教你從勞動部長的角度對於打火英雄這樣的訴求你有什麼樣子的看法 贊不贊成你可以講一句啊說愛難照辦 做不當這個也是一個答案嘛報告委員 我的意思是說保障他的職業安全這是我一定支持的啦\n只是說你要齁這個在哪一個法律系裡面這不是我能夠來做決定啦所以拍板的是鄭文燦嘛對不對是不是你們說你們院裡面有開會嘛主席是鄭文燦嘛就是說他有召集相關部會來做討論但是大家立場是一致的好沒有關係齁之前部長曾經說過警消人員的保護不能低於勞工朋友\n你也是在這個會議室裡面對其他的立委做這樣的宣示嘛我們到時候具體的檢驗看到時候你們所要推出來的法律是不是有低於勞工朋友那我下一個比較好奇的事情是民間的消防隊勞工他們適用的是什麼法民間的消防隊勞工適用的是我們職安法那就奇怪啦\n民間的消防隊勞工適用職安法我們真正的消防弟兄不是用職安法這是一國兩制民間的保護反而比我們政府聘的還要好是這樣嗎主要是身份的不同對嘛現在你又在講身份但我跟你講的是實職嘛民間的消防隊我剛有講就是實職的安保可以適用到職安法嘛\n那我們自己的打火弟兄沒有辦法適用職安法嗎這不是一國兩制嗎這哪裡有我們的消防員受的保護會比較好或者是不會低因為消防員他還是公務人員\n公務人員是身份的問題這個我了解吧公務人員的身份保障他的考權這個我都了解嘛現在我們在講的是他在實際做他的勞動行為的時候他所應該要受到的保護嘛部長你不會覺得很奇怪嗎民間的消防隊是用職安法結果我們的打火弟兄希望比照是用職安法我們的政府卻在拖拖拉拉的藉口一堆\n這個報告我剛剛就講說現在就是希望就是說我們在沒有關係啦部長你今天在這邊的回答齁我相信全國的打火弟兄都聽到了你有你的立場他們接不接受那是另外一個問題好蔡總統啊上任的時候他說啊勞工政策六大保障\n部長你覺得在蔡總統快要卸任的時候這勞工政策六大保障政見達成率有多少你打幾分分數是我不自己打分數不過我們大部分的政見都大部分的政見都怎麼樣這個六大保障我們應該都有去做到都有做到好來我們一樣一樣看今天時間的關係我也不曉得主席會給我延多久但\n我就尊重主席的才事啦台灣人月薪平均58,545這是我們主計總署講的這個有反映實際的狀況嗎這是平均嘛對 這個我了解嘛有多少人沒有達到這個平均值部長你知不知道部長你知不知道有多少人沒有達到這個平均值至少一半以上吧\n你作為部長我老實講薪資的distribution你要比我還熟\n來我秀給部長看啊百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的我從來不講空洞的東西啊我一定拿具體的數字出來講百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的但更重要的事情是什麼低於平均薪資的勞工比例啊年年攀升\n這代表什麼意思薪資結構的扭曲在平均薪資以下的勞工比例越來越高從勞動部的角度上面來講我必須要講這是一個警訊但更重要的事情是什麼但更重要的事情是我們的薪資年增率\n遠遠落後於南韓這個數字喔是央行做出來的喔央行做出來的數字說台灣的薪資年增率遠遠落後於南韓但是為了是什麼因為我們勞工佔GDP比例不斷的下降嘛作為勞動部的部長您認為台灣過去這幾年整個經濟成長的果實有公平的分配到勞工身上嗎\n這個當然還不足啦這個當然還不足嘛好不足那作為勞動部部長你認為應該要怎麼樣努力才可以讓我們的勞工他可以分配到我們經濟成長的果實\n具體的辦法是什麼你也承認不足了嘛那我現在請教你具體的辦法是什麼報告委員吼其實勞工薪資的一個提升吼是要跨部會啦吼來努力啦吼所以你的意思就是不管你勞動部不是不是只有你勞動部的事嘛要跨部會來努力嘛跨部會來努力啊說得很好\n那要如何跨部會來努力你總不能講空話嘛如何跨部會來努力現在我在請教你的是你具體的措施到底是什麼嗎勞動部的話我們就是每年調整基本工資以政府的一個基本工資的調整來帶動央行的那份報告部長你有看嗎我看到了但是報告委員也難含喔沒有錯他央行提供一個最重要的政策建議對勞動部來講是什麼你知道嗎\n他是認為我們調整幅度上可以再更你贊不贊成央行的看法報告委員我們這幾年是這樣子因為也碰到疫情沒有關係啦我尊重啦我知道我不是本委員會的委員啦本委員會的委員研的時間可以比較多啦非本委員會的委員我尊重主席的才是啦好謝謝剛剛超過時間只有4分鐘嗎你要不要調會議記錄出來看\n你這樣主持議事有中立嗎?\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:17.090 --> 00:19.772\n謝謝主席麻煩有請部長請許部長黃委員好部長好蔡英文總統說勞工是她心裡面最軟的這一塊這個理念我支持但是真的是這個樣子必須要經過檢驗\n\n00:38.450 --> 01:05.776\n近紅大火的時候五個消防員續職總統承諾不會讓他們白白犧牲這是2018年的事情現在已經2024年了結果我們的消防弟兄最在意的事情是他們在執行職務的時候到底有什麼辦法可以去保護他們研議了六年各個單位都還在踢皮球從人事總處\n\n01:07.156 --> 01:31.255\n提到保訓會提到消防署我剛還沒有點名到勞動部但我們最近跟消防弟兄舉行了一場座談因為我希望第一線聽他們的心聲他們真的要的是什麼他們的立場現在很簡單這一個公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法\n\n01:32.486 --> 01:40.509\n根本沒有用他們現在的訴求很清楚全面適用職業安全衛生法部長贊不贊成因為這個院的陳琦這邊有開過會院的陳琦開過會誰主持的誰主持的\n\n01:57.402 --> 02:24.731\n鄭副院長鄭文燦主持的會議的結論是什麼會議的結論是說我們在消防法的那我現在就明確的跟你講嘛消防弟兄他們就不要在消防法裡面增訂嘛他們認為消防署根本沒有那個專業嘛可以保護他們的職業安全衛生嘛他們現在希望的是全面適用職業安全衛生法身為部長聽到我們的打火英雄提出這樣的訴求\n\n02:26.411 --> 02:49.307\n同不同意?這個報告委員保護消防員的安全這個部分我是絕對支持不要講空話啦講具體的適用的法律因為這個部分權責機關在內政部消防署消防署目前也有在跟消防公會的弟兄在做討論消防弟兄就不贊成消防署放在消防法裡面嘛\n\n02:50.427 --> 03:12.972\n你先不要去管消防署怎麼講啦我現在是請教你從勞動部長的角度對於打火英雄這樣的訴求你有什麼樣子的看法贊不贊成你可以講一句啊說愛難照辦做不當這個也是一個答案嘛報告委員我的意思是說保障他的職業安全這是我一定支持的啦\n\n03:13.712 --> 03:37.310\n只是說你要齁這個在哪一個法律系裡面這不是我能夠來做決定啦所以拍板的是鄭文燦嘛對不對是不是你們說你們院裡面有開會嘛主席是鄭文燦嘛就是說他有召集相關部會來做討論但是大家立場是一致的好沒有關係齁之前部長曾經說過警消人員的保護不能低於勞工朋友\n\n03:38.547 --> 04:04.239\n你也是在這個會議室裡面對其他的立委做這樣的宣示嘛我們到時候具體的檢驗看到時候你們所要推出來的法律是不是有低於勞工朋友那我下一個比較好奇的事情是民間的消防隊勞工他們適用的是什麼法民間的消防隊勞工適用的是我們職安法那就奇怪啦\n\n04:05.526 --> 04:33.275\n民間的消防隊勞工適用職安法我們真正的消防弟兄不是用職安法這是一國兩制民間的保護反而比我們政府聘的還要好是這樣嗎主要是身份的不同對嘛現在你又在講身份但我跟你講的是實職嘛民間的消防隊我剛有講就是實職的安保可以適用到職安法嘛\n\n04:34.488 --> 04:48.789\n那我們自己的打火弟兄沒有辦法適用職安法嗎這不是一國兩制嗎這哪裡有我們的消防員受的保護會比較好或者是不會低因為消防員他還是公務人員\n\n04:49.690 --> 05:17.182\n公務人員是身份的問題這個我了解吧公務人員的身份保障他的考權這個我都了解嘛現在我們在講的是他在實際做他的勞動行為的時候他所應該要受到的保護嘛部長你不會覺得很奇怪嗎民間的消防隊是用職安法結果我們的打火弟兄希望比照是用職安法我們的政府卻在拖拖拉拉的藉口一堆\n\n05:20.561 --> 05:43.559\n這個報告我剛剛就講說現在就是希望就是說我們在沒有關係啦部長你今天在這邊的回答齁我相信全國的打火弟兄都聽到了你有你的立場他們接不接受那是另外一個問題好蔡總統啊上任的時候他說啊勞工政策六大保障\n\n05:44.680 --> 06:12.332\n部長你覺得在蔡總統快要卸任的時候這勞工政策六大保障政見達成率有多少你打幾分分數是我不自己打分數不過我們大部分的政見都大部分的政見都怎麼樣這個六大保障我們應該都有去做到都有做到好來我們一樣一樣看今天時間的關係我也不曉得主席會給我延多久但\n\n06:13.530 --> 06:40.343\n我就尊重主席的才事啦台灣人月薪平均58,545這是我們主計總署講的這個有反映實際的狀況嗎這是平均嘛對這個我了解嘛有多少人沒有達到這個平均值部長你知不知道部長你知不知道有多少人沒有達到這個平均值至少一半以上吧\n\n06:41.485 --> 06:46.552\n你作為部長我老實講薪資的distribution你要比我還熟\n\n06:48.391 --> 07:11.342\n來我秀給部長看啊百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的我從來不講空洞的東西啊我一定拿具體的數字出來講百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的但更重要的事情是什麼低於平均薪資的勞工比例啊年年攀升\n\n07:12.402 --> 07:30.777\n這代表什麼意思薪資結構的扭曲在平均薪資以下的勞工比例越來越高從勞動部的角度上面來講我必須要講這是一個警訊但更重要的事情是什麼但更重要的事情是我們的薪資年增率\n\n07:32.406 --> 07:58.311\n遠遠落後於南韓這個數字喔是央行做出來的喔央行做出來的數字說台灣的薪資年增率遠遠落後於南韓但是為了是什麼因為我們勞工佔GDP比例不斷的下降嘛作為勞動部的部長您認為台灣過去這幾年整個經濟成長的果實有公平的分配到勞工身上嗎\n\n08:01.918 --> 08:12.618\n這個當然還不足啦這個當然還不足嘛好不足那作為勞動部部長你認為應該要怎麼樣努力才可以讓我們的勞工他可以分配到我們經濟成長的果實\n\n08:15.236 --> 08:32.755\n具體的辦法是什麼你也承認不足了嘛那我現在請教你具體的辦法是什麼報告委員吼其實勞工薪資的一個提升吼是要跨部會啦吼來努力啦吼所以你的意思就是不管你勞動部不是不是只有你勞動部的事嘛要跨部會來努力嘛跨部會來努力啊說得很好\n\n08:34.116 --> 08:59.873\n那要如何跨部會來努力你總不能講空話嘛如何跨部會來努力現在我在請教你的是你具體的措施到底是什麼嗎勞動部的話我們就是每年調整基本工資以政府的一個基本工資的調整來帶動央行的那份報告部長你有看嗎我看到了但是報告委員也難含喔沒有錯他央行提供一個最重要的政策建議對勞動部來講是什麼你知道嗎\n\n09:02.435 --> 09:23.285\n他是認為我們調整幅度上可以再更你贊不贊成央行的看法報告委員我們這幾年是這樣子因為也碰到疫情沒有關係啦我尊重啦我知道我不是本委員會的委員啦本委員會的委員研的時間可以比較多啦非本委員會的委員我尊重主席的才是啦好謝謝剛剛超過時間只有4分鐘嗎你要不要調會議記錄出來看\n\n09:32.154 --> 09:33.705\n你這樣主持議事有中立嗎?\n\n","segments":[{"start":17.09,"end":19.772,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請部長請許部長黃委員好部長好蔡英文總統說勞工是她心裡面最軟的這一塊這個理念我支持但是真的是這個樣子必須要經過檢驗"},{"start":38.45,"end":65.776,"text":"近紅大火的時候五個消防員續職總統承諾不會讓他們白白犧牲這是2018年的事情現在已經2024年了結果我們的消防弟兄最在意的事情是他們在執行職務的時候到底有什麼辦法可以去保護他們研議了六年各個單位都還在踢皮球從人事總處"},{"start":67.156,"end":91.255,"text":"提到保訓會提到消防署我剛還沒有點名到勞動部但我們最近跟消防弟兄舉行了一場座談因為我希望第一線聽他們的心聲他們真的要的是什麼他們的立場現在很簡單這一個公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法"},{"start":92.486,"end":100.509,"text":"根本沒有用他們現在的訴求很清楚全面適用職業安全衛生法部長贊不贊成因為這個院的陳琦這邊有開過會院的陳琦開過會誰主持的誰主持的"},{"start":117.402,"end":144.731,"text":"鄭副院長鄭文燦主持的會議的結論是什麼會議的結論是說我們在消防法的那我現在就明確的跟你講嘛消防弟兄他們就不要在消防法裡面增訂嘛他們認為消防署根本沒有那個專業嘛可以保護他們的職業安全衛生嘛他們現在希望的是全面適用職業安全衛生法身為部長聽到我們的打火英雄提出這樣的訴求"},{"start":146.411,"end":169.307,"text":"同不同意?這個報告委員保護消防員的安全這個部分我是絕對支持不要講空話啦講具體的適用的法律因為這個部分權責機關在內政部消防署消防署目前也有在跟消防公會的弟兄在做討論消防弟兄就不贊成消防署放在消防法裡面嘛"},{"start":170.427,"end":192.972,"text":"你先不要去管消防署怎麼講啦我現在是請教你從勞動部長的角度對於打火英雄這樣的訴求你有什麼樣子的看法 贊不贊成你可以講一句啊說愛難照辦 做不當這個也是一個答案嘛報告委員 我的意思是說保障他的職業安全這是我一定支持的啦"},{"start":193.712,"end":217.31,"text":"只是說你要齁這個在哪一個法律系裡面這不是我能夠來做決定啦所以拍板的是鄭文燦嘛對不對是不是你們說你們院裡面有開會嘛主席是鄭文燦嘛就是說他有召集相關部會來做討論但是大家立場是一致的好沒有關係齁之前部長曾經說過警消人員的保護不能低於勞工朋友"},{"start":218.547,"end":244.239,"text":"你也是在這個會議室裡面對其他的立委做這樣的宣示嘛我們到時候具體的檢驗看到時候你們所要推出來的法律是不是有低於勞工朋友那我下一個比較好奇的事情是民間的消防隊勞工他們適用的是什麼法民間的消防隊勞工適用的是我們職安法那就奇怪啦"},{"start":245.526,"end":273.275,"text":"民間的消防隊勞工適用職安法我們真正的消防弟兄不是用職安法這是一國兩制民間的保護反而比我們政府聘的還要好是這樣嗎主要是身份的不同對嘛現在你又在講身份但我跟你講的是實職嘛民間的消防隊我剛有講就是實職的安保可以適用到職安法嘛"},{"start":274.488,"end":288.789,"text":"那我們自己的打火弟兄沒有辦法適用職安法嗎這不是一國兩制嗎這哪裡有我們的消防員受的保護會比較好或者是不會低因為消防員他還是公務人員"},{"start":289.69,"end":317.182,"text":"公務人員是身份的問題這個我了解吧公務人員的身份保障他的考權這個我都了解嘛現在我們在講的是他在實際做他的勞動行為的時候他所應該要受到的保護嘛部長你不會覺得很奇怪嗎民間的消防隊是用職安法結果我們的打火弟兄希望比照是用職安法我們的政府卻在拖拖拉拉的藉口一堆"},{"start":320.561,"end":343.559,"text":"這個報告我剛剛就講說現在就是希望就是說我們在沒有關係啦部長你今天在這邊的回答齁我相信全國的打火弟兄都聽到了你有你的立場他們接不接受那是另外一個問題好蔡總統啊上任的時候他說啊勞工政策六大保障"},{"start":344.68,"end":372.332,"text":"部長你覺得在蔡總統快要卸任的時候這勞工政策六大保障政見達成率有多少你打幾分分數是我不自己打分數不過我們大部分的政見都大部分的政見都怎麼樣這個六大保障我們應該都有去做到都有做到好來我們一樣一樣看今天時間的關係我也不曉得主席會給我延多久但"},{"start":373.53,"end":400.343,"text":"我就尊重主席的才事啦台灣人月薪平均58,545這是我們主計總署講的這個有反映實際的狀況嗎這是平均嘛對 這個我了解嘛有多少人沒有達到這個平均值部長你知不知道部長你知不知道有多少人沒有達到這個平均值至少一半以上吧"},{"start":401.485,"end":406.552,"text":"你作為部長我老實講薪資的distribution你要比我還熟"},{"start":408.391,"end":431.342,"text":"來我秀給部長看啊百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的我從來不講空洞的東西啊我一定拿具體的數字出來講百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的但更重要的事情是什麼低於平均薪資的勞工比例啊年年攀升"},{"start":432.402,"end":450.777,"text":"這代表什麼意思薪資結構的扭曲在平均薪資以下的勞工比例越來越高從勞動部的角度上面來講我必須要講這是一個警訊但更重要的事情是什麼但更重要的事情是我們的薪資年增率"},{"start":452.406,"end":478.311,"text":"遠遠落後於南韓這個數字喔是央行做出來的喔央行做出來的數字說台灣的薪資年增率遠遠落後於南韓但是為了是什麼因為我們勞工佔GDP比例不斷的下降嘛作為勞動部的部長您認為台灣過去這幾年整個經濟成長的果實有公平的分配到勞工身上嗎"},{"start":481.918,"end":492.618,"text":"這個當然還不足啦這個當然還不足嘛好不足那作為勞動部部長你認為應該要怎麼樣努力才可以讓我們的勞工他可以分配到我們經濟成長的果實"},{"start":495.236,"end":512.755,"text":"具體的辦法是什麼你也承認不足了嘛那我現在請教你具體的辦法是什麼報告委員吼其實勞工薪資的一個提升吼是要跨部會啦吼來努力啦吼所以你的意思就是不管你勞動部不是不是只有你勞動部的事嘛要跨部會來努力嘛跨部會來努力啊說得很好"},{"start":514.116,"end":539.873,"text":"那要如何跨部會來努力你總不能講空話嘛如何跨部會來努力現在我在請教你的是你具體的措施到底是什麼嗎勞動部的話我們就是每年調整基本工資以政府的一個基本工資的調整來帶動央行的那份報告部長你有看嗎我看到了但是報告委員也難含喔沒有錯他央行提供一個最重要的政策建議對勞動部來講是什麼你知道嗎"},{"start":542.435,"end":563.285,"text":"他是認為我們調整幅度上可以再更你贊不贊成央行的看法報告委員我們這幾年是這樣子因為也碰到疫情沒有關係啦我尊重啦我知道我不是本委員會的委員啦本委員會的委員研的時間可以比較多啦非本委員會的委員我尊重主席的才是啦好謝謝剛剛超過時間只有4分鐘嗎你要不要調會議記錄出來看"},{"start":572.154,"end":573.705,"text":"你這樣主持議事有中立嗎?"}]}}}}