{"id":150372,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150372","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b5f0d1ab95cc746e5cabe2e38d5d7efe9f8ba9b0039caa7a6142e1c090ea04b925ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:47:06 - 11:52:39","影片長度":"00:05:33","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：審查委員傅崐萁等33人擬具「花東快速公路建設特別條例草案」案。【詢答及處理】【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":333,"end_time":"2024-03-25T11:52:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T11:47:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":721,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時47分）謝謝主席，我請王國材部長。"],["主席：請部長，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，最近我們全國最關心的大概就是電價要漲的話題。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：我身為臺北市的區域立委，在這邊要幫臺北市請命。比如說去年電價也調整，臺北市捷運營運成本就增加了，多支出3億以上，今年的漲幅愈高、更高了，所以臺北捷運增加的成本會達到5.6億。9月份搞不好還會再漲電價，不曉得到時候以臺北捷運來說，成本還會增加多少。其實不只臺北市捷運，包含臺中捷運、高雄捷運、桃捷、高鐵、臺鐵在內，事實上這些大眾運輸全部都因為電價的大幅調升而使他們的營運成本大幅提高，所以我在這邊還是要幫北捷請命。雖然我知道前兩天有人問院長時，院長說好像不會凍漲或補貼這些城市捷運，但我想請問部長，到目前為止，關於大眾運輸的部分是不是有可能凍漲或補貼票價？"],["王部長國材：我跟王委員報告：如果─我是說假設性議題，如果臺北捷運最後調高票價，TPASS仍是完全差價補貼啦！這個意思是說，所造成的結果是我們給臺北市捷運公司的補貼款更多。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是沒有使用TPASS的人呢？並不是所有的人都使用TPASS啊！"],["王部長國材：對，所以我的意思是現在臺北市大概已經有八十幾萬人都使用TPASS，如果在這種狀況下，用TPASS就完全不會受影響，補貼的部分就用TPASS……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你只補貼TPASS，其他不補貼？我還是希望能夠採取凍漲的方式。你只不過是左口袋與右口袋的分別，但是如果凍漲的話，就能使所有捷運族都受惠。事實上，其他捷運也並不是都有TPASS。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外，我要請教一點比較重要的。院長說高鐵不會漲，是不是？"],["王部長國材：高鐵……是因為它還沒有提出來啦！"],["王委員鴻薇：高鐵即將提出來，因為按照你們交通部跟高鐵的合約，是與物價指數連動，事實上，它今年是準備要調漲的。"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，在高鐵叫作核定基本費率，但一般來說，高鐵過去提過基本費率調升……"],["王委員鴻薇：我的時間非常有限，我只請問……"],["王部長國材：票價不一定會漲。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以不一定會漲，但是可能會漲？"],["王部長國材：就看它分析的結果。"],["王委員鴻薇：按照現在的物價指數，已經超過5%了，所以他們現在已經在計算，而且聽說照這樣算起來，北高部分最高可能增加230塊。當然到你們這邊時也許不會核定給他們這麼多。"],["王部長國材：是，票價不會核定那麼高。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以仍然有漲價的可能跟空間？"],["王部長國材：先由他們提出來啦！我是覺得高鐵公司……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以不代表高鐵絕對不會漲。","另外是公路客運部分，公路客運業者也跟你們申請，漲幅大概是7%到23%。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：公路客運部分也完全不會漲嗎？"],["王部長國材：對於公路客運，我們覺得業者現在面臨經營困境，所以我個人覺得可以讓它漲。但是我們現在的處理方式，第一個，短途用TPASS，中長途的部分，我們則部分補貼給它，所以在調漲部分就可以漲少一點。"],["王委員鴻薇：漲少一點？所以他們仍然可能漲？若不讓他們漲，最後倒楣的就是偏遠地區。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：業者一定把不賺錢，甚至虧損的砍掉。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以對於偏遠地區民眾，事實上不是間接受害，而是直接受害。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以這樣看起來，高鐵仍然有可能漲價，公路客運部分也有可能漲價，只是你們會再衡酌？"],["王部長國材：再作部分補貼，讓票價不要漲太多。"],["王委員鴻薇：好。","我在最後仍然要請命，如果今天要達到2050淨零排放，更不要說針對電動車等等……賴總統馬上就要上任啦！他在選前說過他在2030年前要怎麼推動電動車、要怎麼讓電動車產業成為我們下一個明星產業等等，可是現在大家都緊張啦！因為馬上就要調整電價，大幅調整電價，而且今年還不排除可能二度調整電價，在這樣的狀況之下，影響層面真的非常、非常廣。但是在大眾運輸部分，我認為你們要採取凍漲或補貼的方式，否則哪有政府一方面要作淨零排碳，另一方面又讓大眾運輸經營得這麼困難？這完全背道而馳，好不好？"],["王部長國材：好，我們朝比較……"],["王委員鴻薇：我覺得不要像院長那樣一口回絕。我覺得他是不懂，你知道嗎？他真的不懂。他馬上就要下臺，可是他不曉得這個影響層面會有多廣。以上，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員。","下一位……"],["高金委員素梅：主席，我跟羅智強委員換一下時間，因為他要趕到其他地方。"],["主席：好。","麻煩羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":472,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-5","speakers":["陳雪生","傅崐萁","李昆澤","廖先翔","黃健豪","游顥","徐富癸","林國成","魯明哲","蔡其昌","陳素月","何欣純","林俊憲","邱若華","許智傑","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:59,430\n九月份搞不好還會再漲電價,所以也不曉得到時候以台北捷運來說還會增加多少。那麼其實不只台北市捷運,包含台中捷運、高雄捷運、桃捷、高鐵、台鐵,事實上這些大眾運輸全部都因為電價的大幅調升而使他們的營運成本大幅的提高。\n\n4\n00:01:00,131 --> 00:01:25,263\n所以我在這邊還是要幫北捷來請命雖然我知道在前兩天有人問院長說好像不會去動漲或者是補貼給我們這些城市捷運那我想請問一下部長到目前為止有關於大宗運輸的部分是不是有可能去採取動漲或者是補貼票價\n\n5\n00:01:26,724 --> 00:01:30,870\n臺北捷運最後調靠票價,但是因為我們T-pass完全差價補貼,這個意思是說\n\n6\n00:01:42,648 --> 00:02:07,281\n所造成的結果是我們補貼館給臺北市這個捷運公司更多但是沒有使用TPAS的人呢?並不是所有的人都使用TPAS啊對所以所以我意思說現在臺北市已經有八十幾萬啊大概都使用TPAS我是覺得說如果在那種狀況下用TPAS就不會完全不會受影響補貼的部分所以你認為你只補貼TPAS其他的不補貼好\n\n7\n00:02:09,362 --> 00:02:30,894\n這一點我還是希望能夠採取動長的方式你只不過左口袋右口袋但是你如果動長的話就會使得所有的捷運族都能夠受惠那麼因為事實上很多的其他的捷運事實上也並不是都有TPAS另外我要請教一個比較重要的院長說高鐵不會漲是不是\n\n8\n00:02:32,405 --> 00:02:43,012\n高鐵即將提出來因為按照你們交通部跟高鐵的合約按照物價指數聯動事實上他今年是要準備調漲的\n\n9\n00:02:46,021 --> 00:03:00,598\n他叫做核電基本費率但是我們一般比如說過去高鐵提過基本費因為我的時間非常有限票價不一定會漲所以不一定會漲但是可能會漲按照因為他現在的物價指數因為他已經超過5%了\n\n10\n00:03:04,042 --> 00:03:29,963\n所以他們現在已經在計算而且說這樣算起來北高的部分可能最高最高高可以增加到230塊當然也許合定到你們這邊也許不會合定給他們票價不會合定那麼高所以仍然有漲價的可能跟空間先他提出來啦因為我是覺得高鐵工資所以高鐵不代表絕對不會漲另外公務客運的部分公務客運業者也跟你們申請大概是78到23%\n\n11\n00:03:32,225 --> 00:03:34,248\n公路客運的部分也完全不會漲嗎\n\n12\n00:03:47,188 --> 00:04:07,959\n中長途的部分我們做部分的補貼給他所以他對於長的部分就可以長少一點長少一點所以他們仍然可能因為你不讓他長最後倒楣的就是偏遠地區他一定把不賺錢甚至虧損的就把它砍掉所以對於偏遠地區的民眾事實上他就是不是間接受害他直接受害\n\n13\n00:04:09,019 --> 00:04:17,167\n所以這樣看起來高鐵仍然有可能漲價公路客運的部分也有可能漲價只是你們會再去再做客運的補貼讓那個票價不要漲太多\n\n14\n00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:32,108\n我在最後仍然是去請命如果今天我們要達到2050的淨零排放更不要說像我們電動車那個賴總統馬上就要上任啊他當時在選前說他在2030年要怎麼樣推動電動車要怎麼樣把電動車產業電動車產業成為我們下一個什麼明星產業等等可是現在大家都在剉啦\n\n15\n00:04:45,678 --> 00:05:09,209\n因為你馬上調整電價大幅調整電價而且還不排除今年還可能二度調整電價在這樣的狀況之下其實真的影響的層面非常非常廣但是針對大眾捷運的部分大眾運輸的部分我認為你們要採取動漲或補貼的方式所以這話哪裡說政府政府今天要做淨零排檔但是另外一方面又讓大眾運輸他們經營的這麼困難這完全背道而馳好不好\n\n16\n00:05:13,451 --> 00:05:13,672\n王鴻薇委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2455\t2976\t王國才\n12141\t12301\t臺北市捷運會增加到5.6億\n37710\t59430\t九月份搞不好還會再漲電價,所以也不曉得到時候以台北捷運來說還會增加多少。那麼其實不只台北市捷運,包含台中捷運、高雄捷運、桃捷、高鐵、台鐵,事實上這些大眾運輸全部都因為電價的大幅調升而使他們的營運成本大幅的提高。\n60131\t85263\t所以我在這邊還是要幫北捷來請命雖然我知道在前兩天有人問院長說好像不會去動漲或者是補貼給我們這些城市捷運那我想請問一下部長到目前為止有關於大宗運輸的部分是不是有可能去採取動漲或者是補貼票價\n86724\t90870\t臺北捷運最後調靠票價,但是因為我們T-pass完全差價補貼,這個意思是說\n102648\t127281\t所造成的結果是我們補貼館給臺北市這個捷運公司更多但是沒有使用TPAS的人呢?並不是所有的人都使用TPAS啊對所以所以我意思說現在臺北市已經有八十幾萬啊大概都使用TPAS我是覺得說如果在那種狀況下用TPAS就不會完全不會受影響補貼的部分所以你認為你只補貼TPAS其他的不補貼好\n129362\t150894\t這一點我還是希望能夠採取動長的方式你只不過左口袋右口袋但是你如果動長的話就會使得所有的捷運族都能夠受惠那麼因為事實上很多的其他的捷運事實上也並不是都有TPAS另外我要請教一個比較重要的院長說高鐵不會漲是不是\n152405\t163012\t高鐵即將提出來因為按照你們交通部跟高鐵的合約按照物價指數聯動事實上他今年是要準備調漲的\n166021\t180598\t他叫做核電基本費率但是我們一般比如說過去高鐵提過基本費因為我的時間非常有限票價不一定會漲所以不一定會漲但是可能會漲按照因為他現在的物價指數因為他已經超過5%了\n184042\t209963\t所以他們現在已經在計算而且說這樣算起來北高的部分可能最高最高高可以增加到230塊當然也許合定到你們這邊也許不會合定給他們票價不會合定那麼高所以仍然有漲價的可能跟空間先他提出來啦因為我是覺得高鐵工資所以高鐵不代表絕對不會漲另外公務客運的部分公務客運業者也跟你們申請大概是78到23%\n212225\t214248\t公路客運的部分也完全不會漲嗎\n227188\t247959\t中長途的部分我們做部分的補貼給他所以他對於長的部分就可以長少一點長少一點所以他們仍然可能因為你不讓他長最後倒楣的就是偏遠地區他一定把不賺錢甚至虧損的就把它砍掉所以對於偏遠地區的民眾事實上他就是不是間接受害他直接受害\n249019\t257167\t所以這樣看起來高鐵仍然有可能漲價公路客運的部分也有可能漲價只是你們會再去再做客運的補貼讓那個票價不要漲太多\n261520\t272108\t我在最後仍然是去請命如果今天我們要達到2050的淨零排放更不要說像我們電動車那個賴總統馬上就要上任啊他當時在選前說他在2030年要怎麼樣推動電動車要怎麼樣把電動車產業電動車產業成為我們下一個什麼明星產業等等可是現在大家都在剉啦\n285678\t309209\t因為你馬上調整電價大幅調整電價而且還不排除今年還可能二度調整電價在這樣的狀況之下其實真的影響的層面非常非常廣但是針對大眾捷運的部分大眾運輸的部分我認為你們要採取動漲或補貼的方式所以這話哪裡說政府政府今天要做淨零排檔但是另外一方面又讓大眾運輸他們經營的這麼困難這完全背道而馳好不好\n313451\t313672\t王鴻薇委員\n","txt":"王國才\n臺北市捷運會增加到5.6億\n九月份搞不好還會再漲電價,所以也不曉得到時候以台北捷運來說還會增加多少。那麼其實不只台北市捷運,包含台中捷運、高雄捷運、桃捷、高鐵、台鐵,事實上這些大眾運輸全部都因為電價的大幅調升而使他們的營運成本大幅的提高。\n所以我在這邊還是要幫北捷來請命雖然我知道在前兩天有人問院長說好像不會去動漲或者是補貼給我們這些城市捷運那我想請問一下部長到目前為止有關於大宗運輸的部分是不是有可能去採取動漲或者是補貼票價\n臺北捷運最後調靠票價,但是因為我們T-pass完全差價補貼,這個意思是說\n所造成的結果是我們補貼館給臺北市這個捷運公司更多但是沒有使用TPAS的人呢?並不是所有的人都使用TPAS啊對所以所以我意思說現在臺北市已經有八十幾萬啊大概都使用TPAS我是覺得說如果在那種狀況下用TPAS就不會完全不會受影響補貼的部分所以你認為你只補貼TPAS其他的不補貼好\n這一點我還是希望能夠採取動長的方式你只不過左口袋右口袋但是你如果動長的話就會使得所有的捷運族都能夠受惠那麼因為事實上很多的其他的捷運事實上也並不是都有TPAS另外我要請教一個比較重要的院長說高鐵不會漲是不是\n高鐵即將提出來因為按照你們交通部跟高鐵的合約按照物價指數聯動事實上他今年是要準備調漲的\n他叫做核電基本費率但是我們一般比如說過去高鐵提過基本費因為我的時間非常有限票價不一定會漲所以不一定會漲但是可能會漲按照因為他現在的物價指數因為他已經超過5%了\n所以他們現在已經在計算而且說這樣算起來北高的部分可能最高最高高可以增加到230塊當然也許合定到你們這邊也許不會合定給他們票價不會合定那麼高所以仍然有漲價的可能跟空間先他提出來啦因為我是覺得高鐵工資所以高鐵不代表絕對不會漲另外公務客運的部分公務客運業者也跟你們申請大概是78到23%\n公路客運的部分也完全不會漲嗎\n中長途的部分我們做部分的補貼給他所以他對於長的部分就可以長少一點長少一點所以他們仍然可能因為你不讓他長最後倒楣的就是偏遠地區他一定把不賺錢甚至虧損的就把它砍掉所以對於偏遠地區的民眾事實上他就是不是間接受害他直接受害\n所以這樣看起來高鐵仍然有可能漲價公路客運的部分也有可能漲價只是你們會再去再做客運的補貼讓那個票價不要漲太多\n我在最後仍然是去請命如果今天我們要達到2050的淨零排放更不要說像我們電動車那個賴總統馬上就要上任啊他當時在選前說他在2030年要怎麼樣推動電動車要怎麼樣把電動車產業電動車產業成為我們下一個什麼明星產業等等可是現在大家都在剉啦\n因為你馬上調整電價大幅調整電價而且還不排除今年還可能二度調整電價在這樣的狀況之下其實真的影響的層面非常非常廣但是針對大眾捷運的部分大眾運輸的部分我認為你們要採取動漲或補貼的方式所以這話哪裡說政府政府今天要做淨零排檔但是另外一方面又讓大眾運輸他們經營的這麼困難這完全背道而馳好不好\n王鴻薇委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.455 --> 00:02.976\n王國才\n\n00:12.141 --> 00:12.301\n臺北市捷運會增加到5.6億\n\n00:37.710 --> 00:59.430\n九月份搞不好還會再漲電價,所以也不曉得到時候以台北捷運來說還會增加多少。那麼其實不只台北市捷運,包含台中捷運、高雄捷運、桃捷、高鐵、台鐵,事實上這些大眾運輸全部都因為電價的大幅調升而使他們的營運成本大幅的提高。\n\n01:00.131 --> 01:25.263\n所以我在這邊還是要幫北捷來請命雖然我知道在前兩天有人問院長說好像不會去動漲或者是補貼給我們這些城市捷運那我想請問一下部長到目前為止有關於大宗運輸的部分是不是有可能去採取動漲或者是補貼票價\n\n01:26.724 --> 01:30.870\n臺北捷運最後調靠票價,但是因為我們T-pass完全差價補貼,這個意思是說\n\n01:42.648 --> 02:07.281\n所造成的結果是我們補貼館給臺北市這個捷運公司更多但是沒有使用TPAS的人呢?並不是所有的人都使用TPAS啊對所以所以我意思說現在臺北市已經有八十幾萬啊大概都使用TPAS我是覺得說如果在那種狀況下用TPAS就不會完全不會受影響補貼的部分所以你認為你只補貼TPAS其他的不補貼好\n\n02:09.362 --> 02:30.894\n這一點我還是希望能夠採取動長的方式你只不過左口袋右口袋但是你如果動長的話就會使得所有的捷運族都能夠受惠那麼因為事實上很多的其他的捷運事實上也並不是都有TPAS另外我要請教一個比較重要的院長說高鐵不會漲是不是\n\n02:32.405 --> 02:43.012\n高鐵即將提出來因為按照你們交通部跟高鐵的合約按照物價指數聯動事實上他今年是要準備調漲的\n\n02:46.021 --> 03:00.598\n他叫做核電基本費率但是我們一般比如說過去高鐵提過基本費因為我的時間非常有限票價不一定會漲所以不一定會漲但是可能會漲按照因為他現在的物價指數因為他已經超過5%了\n\n03:04.042 --> 03:29.963\n所以他們現在已經在計算而且說這樣算起來北高的部分可能最高最高高可以增加到230塊當然也許合定到你們這邊也許不會合定給他們票價不會合定那麼高所以仍然有漲價的可能跟空間先他提出來啦因為我是覺得高鐵工資所以高鐵不代表絕對不會漲另外公務客運的部分公務客運業者也跟你們申請大概是78到23%\n\n03:32.225 --> 03:34.248\n公路客運的部分也完全不會漲嗎\n\n03:47.188 --> 04:07.959\n中長途的部分我們做部分的補貼給他所以他對於長的部分就可以長少一點長少一點所以他們仍然可能因為你不讓他長最後倒楣的就是偏遠地區他一定把不賺錢甚至虧損的就把它砍掉所以對於偏遠地區的民眾事實上他就是不是間接受害他直接受害\n\n04:09.019 --> 04:17.167\n所以這樣看起來高鐵仍然有可能漲價公路客運的部分也有可能漲價只是你們會再去再做客運的補貼讓那個票價不要漲太多\n\n04:21.520 --> 04:32.108\n我在最後仍然是去請命如果今天我們要達到2050的淨零排放更不要說像我們電動車那個賴總統馬上就要上任啊他當時在選前說他在2030年要怎麼樣推動電動車要怎麼樣把電動車產業電動車產業成為我們下一個什麼明星產業等等可是現在大家都在剉啦\n\n04:45.678 --> 05:09.209\n因為你馬上調整電價大幅調整電價而且還不排除今年還可能二度調整電價在這樣的狀況之下其實真的影響的層面非常非常廣但是針對大眾捷運的部分大眾運輸的部分我認為你們要採取動漲或補貼的方式所以這話哪裡說政府政府今天要做淨零排檔但是另外一方面又讓大眾運輸他們經營的這麼困難這完全背道而馳好不好\n\n05:13.451 --> 05:13.672\n王鴻薇委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.455,"end":2.976,"text":"王國才"},{"start":12.141,"end":12.301,"text":"臺北市捷運會增加到5.6億"},{"start":37.71,"end":59.43,"text":"九月份搞不好還會再漲電價,所以也不曉得到時候以台北捷運來說還會增加多少。那麼其實不只台北市捷運,包含台中捷運、高雄捷運、桃捷、高鐵、台鐵,事實上這些大眾運輸全部都因為電價的大幅調升而使他們的營運成本大幅的提高。"},{"start":60.131,"end":85.263,"text":"所以我在這邊還是要幫北捷來請命雖然我知道在前兩天有人問院長說好像不會去動漲或者是補貼給我們這些城市捷運那我想請問一下部長到目前為止有關於大宗運輸的部分是不是有可能去採取動漲或者是補貼票價"},{"start":86.724,"end":90.87,"text":"臺北捷運最後調靠票價,但是因為我們T-pass完全差價補貼,這個意思是說"},{"start":102.648,"end":127.281,"text":"所造成的結果是我們補貼館給臺北市這個捷運公司更多但是沒有使用TPAS的人呢?並不是所有的人都使用TPAS啊對所以所以我意思說現在臺北市已經有八十幾萬啊大概都使用TPAS我是覺得說如果在那種狀況下用TPAS就不會完全不會受影響補貼的部分所以你認為你只補貼TPAS其他的不補貼好"},{"start":129.362,"end":150.894,"text":"這一點我還是希望能夠採取動長的方式你只不過左口袋右口袋但是你如果動長的話就會使得所有的捷運族都能夠受惠那麼因為事實上很多的其他的捷運事實上也並不是都有TPAS另外我要請教一個比較重要的院長說高鐵不會漲是不是"},{"start":152.405,"end":163.012,"text":"高鐵即將提出來因為按照你們交通部跟高鐵的合約按照物價指數聯動事實上他今年是要準備調漲的"},{"start":166.021,"end":180.598,"text":"他叫做核電基本費率但是我們一般比如說過去高鐵提過基本費因為我的時間非常有限票價不一定會漲所以不一定會漲但是可能會漲按照因為他現在的物價指數因為他已經超過5%了"},{"start":184.042,"end":209.963,"text":"所以他們現在已經在計算而且說這樣算起來北高的部分可能最高最高高可以增加到230塊當然也許合定到你們這邊也許不會合定給他們票價不會合定那麼高所以仍然有漲價的可能跟空間先他提出來啦因為我是覺得高鐵工資所以高鐵不代表絕對不會漲另外公務客運的部分公務客運業者也跟你們申請大概是78到23%"},{"start":212.225,"end":214.248,"text":"公路客運的部分也完全不會漲嗎"},{"start":227.188,"end":247.959,"text":"中長途的部分我們做部分的補貼給他所以他對於長的部分就可以長少一點長少一點所以他們仍然可能因為你不讓他長最後倒楣的就是偏遠地區他一定把不賺錢甚至虧損的就把它砍掉所以對於偏遠地區的民眾事實上他就是不是間接受害他直接受害"},{"start":249.019,"end":257.167,"text":"所以這樣看起來高鐵仍然有可能漲價公路客運的部分也有可能漲價只是你們會再去再做客運的補貼讓那個票價不要漲太多"},{"start":261.52,"end":272.108,"text":"我在最後仍然是去請命如果今天我們要達到2050的淨零排放更不要說像我們電動車那個賴總統馬上就要上任啊他當時在選前說他在2030年要怎麼樣推動電動車要怎麼樣把電動車產業電動車產業成為我們下一個什麼明星產業等等可是現在大家都在剉啦"},{"start":285.678,"end":309.209,"text":"因為你馬上調整電價大幅調整電價而且還不排除今年還可能二度調整電價在這樣的狀況之下其實真的影響的層面非常非常廣但是針對大眾捷運的部分大眾運輸的部分我認為你們要採取動漲或補貼的方式所以這話哪裡說政府政府今天要做淨零排檔但是另外一方面又讓大眾運輸他們經營的這麼困難這完全背道而馳好不好"},{"start":313.451,"end":313.672,"text":"王鴻薇委員"}]}}}}