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12:47:54","影片長度":"00:08:36","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":516,"end_time":"2024-03-04T12:47:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T12:39:18+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":828,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（12時39分）好的，謝謝召委。秘書長，我想請問一下，我們的債務清理條例大概是民國95年通過的，從95年到現在已經將近18年，目前司法院對於債清條例的成效還有現在執行的狀況，您的看法是什麼？"],["吳秘書長三龍：我們請民事廳周廳長說明一下。"],["周廳長玫芳：謝謝委員關心。關於我們目前債務清理條例的申請事件跟裁定准許的比例在……"],["黃委員珊珊：數量應該少很多了吧？"],["周廳長玫芳：其實有在下降。"],["黃委員珊珊：但是現在有一些新興的狀況，而15年來大概我們債清條例的內容其實沒有太多的修正，對嗎？幾乎沒有對於新的狀況做一些調整。這邊我想跟秘書長分享的是，現在臺灣最大的影子銀行，你知道是誰嗎？影子銀行，非金融機構其實都在做債務的融資甚至租賃，對吧？融資公司有6,000多家，有三大家融資租賃公司，且其資產非常的龐大，但是他們都在債清條例的範圍之外，對吧？目前為止它不適用債清條例嗎？"],["周廳長玫芳：這個部分是否有適用債清條例，不曉得委員關心的是不是所謂它的金融機構的定義的大小的問題？"],["黃委員珊珊：是的，沒錯，因為我們以前的卡債，立法的時候主要是針對銀行，尤其是當時的信用卡卡債，然後它可能是沒有擔保，所以它有一些所謂信用上面的風險，而且銀行應該要告知，或者是利率上他要負擔的部分，但是經過10多年，銀行被管得很嚴，可是外面的融資越來越多，大家看過一個影片叫做「山道猴子的一生」嗎？免頭款、全貸款，還可以再超貸一筆錢去改裝。所以很多的年輕人幾乎就是掉到這個陷阱裡面。","最嚴重的，我看到很多民間的新聞，有人買了一台休旅車，貸款90萬，後來錢不夠，融資公司又打來行銷，表示你還可以再轉貸，變成貸147萬。也就是這些融資公司它是用行銷、促銷的方式，讓借錢的人借更多的錢、負擔更多的債，但是它又不受到你們原來債清條例的規範，也不是屬於原來民國95年定義的金融機構，到現在為止，你們有沒有要調整所謂金融機構認定的標準？"],["周廳長玫芳：跟委員報告，關於剛剛委員提到的二個問題，就是這些金融管理融資公司其實在債務清理條例中它是債權人的地位，而這些金融融資公司，或者是我們一般的資產管理公司，它雖然不能像銀行那樣去召開所謂債權人的協商會議……"],["黃委員珊珊：它也是一個所謂融資的類金融機構。"],["周廳長玫芳：對，它是大宗的債權人，沒有錯，但是就債務人來適用這一個消債條例，其實是沒有影響的。"],["黃委員珊珊：是沒有影響，它可以適用。"],["周廳長玫芳：對，它可以適用。"],["黃委員珊珊：可是我們現在查到的是，你們司法院在97年的時候，有提了一個辦理消費者債務清理事件應行注意事項，對於金融機構的定義是要經主管機關認定，我剛剛才問了金管會，他們不認為這是他們管的人，所以這個國家是要推來推去嗎？"],["周廳長玫芳：不是這樣的意思，我們的意思是，當時我們對於金融機關的定義是去參考金融合併法，然後設定這幾個金融機構，我們主要的目的是因為在消債條例實行的時候，要有一個主要最大的金融機構去號召其他各個金融機構……"],["黃委員珊珊：像中租公司這麼大的融資租賃公司還不夠大嗎？"],["周廳長玫芳：主要是中租公司……"],["黃委員珊珊：我是說類似啦！我沒有什麼意見，我只是說15年了，這個機制該修正就要修正；第二個，這些人他們的狀況已經超過當年的卡債，規模跟數量都已經比卡債有過之而無不及了；第三，現在幾乎人手都可以收到任何的簡訊，說你可以來借錢，所以非常多的年輕人就用這個方式去借了更多的錢，然後債清條例又不能適用，造成我們不管是對於打詐也好，對於投資詐騙也好，對於這種融資公司利用合法掩護他賺取暴利的這種行為也好，其實司法院只要改這個注意事項就可以了，如果可能的話，而且這個案子，上一屆的江永昌委員其實也問過，你們說要研議，研議到現在有答案了嗎？"],["周廳長玫芳：金融機構的部分，我們會再考慮，但剛剛委員提到的第二個……"],["黃委員珊珊：納入債清。"],["周廳長玫芳：第二個問題跟一般社會大眾比較有關係的就是超過擔保價值以外，無擔保的額度又變大了……"],["黃委員珊珊：是的。"],["周廳長玫芳：比如說第二次擔保、第三次擔保，這個部分……"],["黃委員珊珊：現在幾乎是非常普遍，沒有車也可以買車，買了車還可以再貸更多錢，你說它沒有影響交易秩序，我認為這是假裝看不見啦！所以司法院可以先檢討這個部分嗎？去年說要研議，但到現在還沒有給答案。"],["周廳長玫芳：這個部分是可以用的，這是我一直想跟委員報告的是……"],["黃委員珊珊：好，請給我一個正式的書面。"],["周廳長玫芳：好。"],["黃委員珊珊：告訴大家可以用，讓法院可以受理，我們一般消費者也可以去申訴。"],["周廳長玫芳：也就是超過擔保物價值的無擔保債務，還是有債清條例的適用，這個是確定的。"],["黃委員珊珊：那就把它明文化。第二個，你們這個所謂的注意事項，也把它納進來，把金融機構的定義，在你們的注意事項裡面清楚的修正，融資租賃公司超過額度的部分要視同所謂的金融機構，至少在債清條例的這一點裡面，可以嗎？"],["周廳長玫芳：這個部分我們在書面的說明……"],["黃委員珊珊：我的意思就是不要讓這種明明就存在的，我們卻假裝沒看見，然後讓它不斷的坐大，將來就會跟當年放任卡債一樣，臺灣政府現在是放任影子銀行坐大的最大幫兇，金管會不管，司法院這邊就是等著看，所以大家都不管，融資租賃公司變成化外之地；第二個，他們的資產已經大到不能倒，他們三家公司的資產加起來已經1.5兆，他們的應收帳款就有1兆，然後呆帳可以有上百億，表示我們有多少人是在這上面受到很大的衝擊，如果我們要導正相關的社會風氣，我們首先要納管這些本來就應該管的人，好嗎？麻煩秘書長，這個部分從去年到現在我想很多都有做過檢討，債清條例整個適用的範圍跟內容麻煩你給我正式、完整的說明。"],["吳秘書長三龍：好。謝謝。"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請游顥委員、游顥委員、游顥委員。","接下來請顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒委員。","我們再請賴士葆委員、賴士葆委員、賴士葆委員。","今天所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供的相關資料或以書面答復的，再請司法院這邊能夠儘速送交個別委員還有本會。","本次的會議就到此結束。現在散會，謝謝大家。","散會（12時48分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":384,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-2","speakers":["吳宗憲","翁曉玲","黃國昌","沈發惠","鍾佳濱","柯建銘","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林思銘","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","謝龍介","陳俊宇","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 498.285, \"end\": 498.305, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 498.305, \"end\": 498.325, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,070 --> 00:00:00,737\n珊珊委員發言謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:07,762 --> 00:00:28,415\n秘書長我想請問一下我們的債務清理條例大概是民國95年通過的那這幾年其實已經從95年到現在已經將近18年目前法院司法院對於債清條例它的成效還有現在執行的狀況您的看法是什麼是我們請民視聽那個周庭長\n\n3\n00:00:35,082 --> 00:00:45,690\n關於我們目前債務清理條例的那個申請事件跟裁定准許的比例數量應該少很多了吧\n\n4\n00:00:47,195 --> 00:01:12,463\n其實有在下降但是現在有一些新興的所謂15年來大概我們的內容在性條例其實沒有太多的修正幾乎沒有對於新的狀況做一些調整這邊我想跟秘書長分享就是說現在台灣其實最大的影子銀行你知道是誰嗎\n\n5\n00:01:15,468 --> 00:01:39,321\n銀子銀行非金融機構其實都在做債務的融資甚至處理對吧融資公司有6000多家有三大家融資處理公司資產非常的龐大但是他們都在債清條例之外對吧目前為止他不是用債清條例嗎\n\n6\n00:01:41,378 --> 00:02:08,344\n這個部分我想是用債清條例不曉得委員關心的是不是所謂他的金融機構的定義的大小的問題是的沒錯因為我們以前的卡債主要是立法的時候是針對銀行尤其是當時信用卡的卡債然後他可能是沒有擔保所以他有一些所謂的信用上面的風險而且在銀行應該要告知或者是對於利率還有負擔\n\n7\n00:02:09,884 --> 00:02:38,231\n但是經過10多年銀行被管得很嚴可是外面的融資越來越多大家看過一個影片叫做山道猴子的一生嗎免頭款全貸款還可以再超貸去一筆錢去改裝所以很多的年輕人幾乎就是掉到這個陷阱裡面那最嚴重的看到很多的民間的新聞好了\n\n8\n00:02:38,971 --> 00:03:03,170\n有人去買了一台休旅車貸款90萬後來錢不夠呢融資公司又打來行銷你還可以再轉貸變貸147萬也就是這些融資公司他是用行銷促銷的方式讓借錢的人借更多的錢負擔更多的債但是他又不受到你們原來債券條例的規範\n\n9\n00:03:04,531 --> 00:03:05,472\n李慧琼議員\n\n10\n00:03:16,856 --> 00:03:40,599\n跟委員報告就是關於這個剛剛委員提到兩個問題就是我們的金融管理融資公司這些其實他在債務經理條例他是債權人的地位那麼其實債權人的地位這些金融融資公司好了或者我們一般的資產管理公司\n\n11\n00:03:41,380 --> 00:04:05,904\n他雖然不能像銀行那樣去召開所謂債權人的協商會議他還是一個所謂融資的類金融機構他是大宗的債權人沒有錯但是其實就債務人來適用這個消債條例其實是沒有影響的是沒有影響他可以適用嗎對他可以適用\n\n12\n00:04:09,724 --> 00:04:27,130\n司法院在1997年有辦理一個消費者債務清理事件應注意事項對於金融機構的定義是要主管機關認定目前我剛剛才問了金管會他們不認為這是他們管的人\n\n13\n00:04:28,375 --> 00:04:52,425\n所以這是這個國家是要推來推去嗎不是這樣的意思我們的意思是說當時我們把金融機關的定義是去參考金融合併法然後設定這幾個金融機構我們主要的目的是因為在消債條例實行的時候要有一個主要最大的金融機構去號召\n\n14\n00:04:54,026 --> 00:05:18,751\n其他各個金融機構像中租公司這些這麼大的融資註定公司還不夠大嗎主要是中租公司我是說類似啦我沒有什麼意見我只是說15年了這個機制該修正就要修第二個這些人他們的狀況已經超過當年的卡債規模跟數量都已經比卡債有過\n\n15\n00:05:20,271 --> 00:05:20,712\n對於打詐也好：\n\n16\n00:05:41,173 --> 00:05:41,213\n納入再親\n\n17\n00:06:07,034 --> 00:06:13,376\n現在幾乎是非常普遍沒有車也可以買車買了車還可以再帶更多錢這個已經變成你說他沒有影響交易秩序我認為我們\n\n18\n00:06:36,604 --> 00:06:41,746\n法院可以先檢討這個部分嗎?去年說要研議,到現在還沒有給答案。好,那請給我一個正式的書面,告訴大家可以用,讓法院可以受理,一般消費者也可以去申訴。\n\n19\n00:06:57,833 --> 00:06:57,953\n可以嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:27,825 --> 00:07:47,631\n我們的意思就是說不要讓這種明明就存在我們假裝沒看見然後讓它不斷地做大將來就跟當年放任卡債一樣台灣政府現在是放任影子銀行做大的最大的幫兇\n\n21\n00:07:49,091 --> 00:08:16,604\n金管會不管司法院這邊就是等著看所以大家都不管融資注定公司變成畫外之地第二個他們的資產已經大到不能倒他們大到資產三家公司加起來已經1.5兆了他們的應收賬款就有1兆然後呆帳可以有上百億表示我們有多少人是在這上面受到很大的衝擊如果我們要導正\n\n22\n00:08:18,285 --> 00:08:18,325\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n70\t737\t珊珊委員發言謝謝\n7762\t28415\t秘書長我想請問一下我們的債務清理條例大概是民國95年通過的那這幾年其實已經從95年到現在已經將近18年目前法院司法院對於債清條例它的成效還有現在執行的狀況您的看法是什麼是我們請民視聽那個周庭長\n35082\t45690\t關於我們目前債務清理條例的那個申請事件跟裁定准許的比例數量應該少很多了吧\n47195\t72463\t其實有在下降但是現在有一些新興的所謂15年來大概我們的內容在性條例其實沒有太多的修正幾乎沒有對於新的狀況做一些調整這邊我想跟秘書長分享就是說現在台灣其實最大的影子銀行你知道是誰嗎\n75468\t99321\t銀子銀行非金融機構其實都在做債務的融資甚至處理對吧融資公司有6000多家有三大家融資處理公司資產非常的龐大但是他們都在債清條例之外對吧目前為止他不是用債清條例嗎\n101378\t128344\t這個部分我想是用債清條例不曉得委員關心的是不是所謂他的金融機構的定義的大小的問題是的沒錯因為我們以前的卡債主要是立法的時候是針對銀行尤其是當時信用卡的卡債然後他可能是沒有擔保所以他有一些所謂的信用上面的風險而且在銀行應該要告知或者是對於利率還有負擔\n129884\t158231\t但是經過10多年銀行被管得很嚴可是外面的融資越來越多大家看過一個影片叫做山道猴子的一生嗎免頭款全貸款還可以再超貸去一筆錢去改裝所以很多的年輕人幾乎就是掉到這個陷阱裡面那最嚴重的看到很多的民間的新聞好了\n158971\t183170\t有人去買了一台休旅車貸款90萬後來錢不夠呢融資公司又打來行銷你還可以再轉貸變貸147萬也就是這些融資公司他是用行銷促銷的方式讓借錢的人借更多的錢負擔更多的債但是他又不受到你們原來債券條例的規範\n184531\t185472\t李慧琼議員\n196856\t220599\t跟委員報告就是關於這個剛剛委員提到兩個問題就是我們的金融管理融資公司這些其實他在債務經理條例他是債權人的地位那麼其實債權人的地位這些金融融資公司好了或者我們一般的資產管理公司\n221380\t245904\t他雖然不能像銀行那樣去召開所謂債權人的協商會議他還是一個所謂融資的類金融機構他是大宗的債權人沒有錯但是其實就債務人來適用這個消債條例其實是沒有影響的是沒有影響他可以適用嗎對他可以適用\n249724\t267130\t司法院在1997年有辦理一個消費者債務清理事件應注意事項對於金融機構的定義是要主管機關認定目前我剛剛才問了金管會他們不認為這是他們管的人\n268375\t292425\t所以這是這個國家是要推來推去嗎不是這樣的意思我們的意思是說當時我們把金融機關的定義是去參考金融合併法然後設定這幾個金融機構我們主要的目的是因為在消債條例實行的時候要有一個主要最大的金融機構去號召\n294026\t318751\t其他各個金融機構像中租公司這些這麼大的融資註定公司還不夠大嗎主要是中租公司我是說類似啦我沒有什麼意見我只是說15年了這個機制該修正就要修第二個這些人他們的狀況已經超過當年的卡債規模跟數量都已經比卡債有過\n320271\t320712\t對於打詐也好：\n341173\t341213\t納入再親\n367034\t373376\t現在幾乎是非常普遍沒有車也可以買車買了車還可以再帶更多錢這個已經變成你說他沒有影響交易秩序我認為我們\n396604\t401746\t法院可以先檢討這個部分嗎?去年說要研議,到現在還沒有給答案。好,那請給我一個正式的書面,告訴大家可以用,讓法院可以受理,一般消費者也可以去申訴。\n417833\t417953\t可以嗎?\n447825\t467631\t我們的意思就是說不要讓這種明明就存在我們假裝沒看見然後讓它不斷地做大將來就跟當年放任卡債一樣台灣政府現在是放任影子銀行做大的最大的幫兇\n469091\t496604\t金管會不管司法院這邊就是等著看所以大家都不管融資注定公司變成畫外之地第二個他們的資產已經大到不能倒他們大到資產三家公司加起來已經1.5兆了他們的應收賬款就有1兆然後呆帳可以有上百億表示我們有多少人是在這上面受到很大的衝擊如果我們要導正\n498285\t498325\t主席\n","txt":"珊珊委員發言謝謝\n秘書長我想請問一下我們的債務清理條例大概是民國95年通過的那這幾年其實已經從95年到現在已經將近18年目前法院司法院對於債清條例它的成效還有現在執行的狀況您的看法是什麼是我們請民視聽那個周庭長\n關於我們目前債務清理條例的那個申請事件跟裁定准許的比例數量應該少很多了吧\n其實有在下降但是現在有一些新興的所謂15年來大概我們的內容在性條例其實沒有太多的修正幾乎沒有對於新的狀況做一些調整這邊我想跟秘書長分享就是說現在台灣其實最大的影子銀行你知道是誰嗎\n銀子銀行非金融機構其實都在做債務的融資甚至處理對吧融資公司有6000多家有三大家融資處理公司資產非常的龐大但是他們都在債清條例之外對吧目前為止他不是用債清條例嗎\n這個部分我想是用債清條例不曉得委員關心的是不是所謂他的金融機構的定義的大小的問題是的沒錯因為我們以前的卡債主要是立法的時候是針對銀行尤其是當時信用卡的卡債然後他可能是沒有擔保所以他有一些所謂的信用上面的風險而且在銀行應該要告知或者是對於利率還有負擔\n但是經過10多年銀行被管得很嚴可是外面的融資越來越多大家看過一個影片叫做山道猴子的一生嗎免頭款全貸款還可以再超貸去一筆錢去改裝所以很多的年輕人幾乎就是掉到這個陷阱裡面那最嚴重的看到很多的民間的新聞好了\n有人去買了一台休旅車貸款90萬後來錢不夠呢融資公司又打來行銷你還可以再轉貸變貸147萬也就是這些融資公司他是用行銷促銷的方式讓借錢的人借更多的錢負擔更多的債但是他又不受到你們原來債券條例的規範\n李慧琼議員\n跟委員報告就是關於這個剛剛委員提到兩個問題就是我們的金融管理融資公司這些其實他在債務經理條例他是債權人的地位那麼其實債權人的地位這些金融融資公司好了或者我們一般的資產管理公司\n他雖然不能像銀行那樣去召開所謂債權人的協商會議他還是一個所謂融資的類金融機構他是大宗的債權人沒有錯但是其實就債務人來適用這個消債條例其實是沒有影響的是沒有影響他可以適用嗎對他可以適用\n司法院在1997年有辦理一個消費者債務清理事件應注意事項對於金融機構的定義是要主管機關認定目前我剛剛才問了金管會他們不認為這是他們管的人\n所以這是這個國家是要推來推去嗎不是這樣的意思我們的意思是說當時我們把金融機關的定義是去參考金融合併法然後設定這幾個金融機構我們主要的目的是因為在消債條例實行的時候要有一個主要最大的金融機構去號召\n其他各個金融機構像中租公司這些這麼大的融資註定公司還不夠大嗎主要是中租公司我是說類似啦我沒有什麼意見我只是說15年了這個機制該修正就要修第二個這些人他們的狀況已經超過當年的卡債規模跟數量都已經比卡債有過\n對於打詐也好：\n納入再親\n現在幾乎是非常普遍沒有車也可以買車買了車還可以再帶更多錢這個已經變成你說他沒有影響交易秩序我認為我們\n法院可以先檢討這個部分嗎?去年說要研議,到現在還沒有給答案。好,那請給我一個正式的書面,告訴大家可以用,讓法院可以受理,一般消費者也可以去申訴。\n可以嗎?\n我們的意思就是說不要讓這種明明就存在我們假裝沒看見然後讓它不斷地做大將來就跟當年放任卡債一樣台灣政府現在是放任影子銀行做大的最大的幫兇\n金管會不管司法院這邊就是等著看所以大家都不管融資注定公司變成畫外之地第二個他們的資產已經大到不能倒他們大到資產三家公司加起來已經1.5兆了他們的應收賬款就有1兆然後呆帳可以有上百億表示我們有多少人是在這上面受到很大的衝擊如果我們要導正\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.070 --> 00:00.737\n珊珊委員發言謝謝\n\n00:07.762 --> 00:28.415\n秘書長我想請問一下我們的債務清理條例大概是民國95年通過的那這幾年其實已經從95年到現在已經將近18年目前法院司法院對於債清條例它的成效還有現在執行的狀況您的看法是什麼是我們請民視聽那個周庭長\n\n00:35.082 --> 00:45.690\n關於我們目前債務清理條例的那個申請事件跟裁定准許的比例數量應該少很多了吧\n\n00:47.195 --> 01:12.463\n其實有在下降但是現在有一些新興的所謂15年來大概我們的內容在性條例其實沒有太多的修正幾乎沒有對於新的狀況做一些調整這邊我想跟秘書長分享就是說現在台灣其實最大的影子銀行你知道是誰嗎\n\n01:15.468 --> 01:39.321\n銀子銀行非金融機構其實都在做債務的融資甚至處理對吧融資公司有6000多家有三大家融資處理公司資產非常的龐大但是他們都在債清條例之外對吧目前為止他不是用債清條例嗎\n\n01:41.378 --> 02:08.344\n這個部分我想是用債清條例不曉得委員關心的是不是所謂他的金融機構的定義的大小的問題是的沒錯因為我們以前的卡債主要是立法的時候是針對銀行尤其是當時信用卡的卡債然後他可能是沒有擔保所以他有一些所謂的信用上面的風險而且在銀行應該要告知或者是對於利率還有負擔\n\n02:09.884 --> 02:38.231\n但是經過10多年銀行被管得很嚴可是外面的融資越來越多大家看過一個影片叫做山道猴子的一生嗎免頭款全貸款還可以再超貸去一筆錢去改裝所以很多的年輕人幾乎就是掉到這個陷阱裡面那最嚴重的看到很多的民間的新聞好了\n\n02:38.971 --> 03:03.170\n有人去買了一台休旅車貸款90萬後來錢不夠呢融資公司又打來行銷你還可以再轉貸變貸147萬也就是這些融資公司他是用行銷促銷的方式讓借錢的人借更多的錢負擔更多的債但是他又不受到你們原來債券條例的規範\n\n03:04.531 --> 03:05.472\n李慧琼議員\n\n03:16.856 --> 03:40.599\n跟委員報告就是關於這個剛剛委員提到兩個問題就是我們的金融管理融資公司這些其實他在債務經理條例他是債權人的地位那麼其實債權人的地位這些金融融資公司好了或者我們一般的資產管理公司\n\n03:41.380 --> 04:05.904\n他雖然不能像銀行那樣去召開所謂債權人的協商會議他還是一個所謂融資的類金融機構他是大宗的債權人沒有錯但是其實就債務人來適用這個消債條例其實是沒有影響的是沒有影響他可以適用嗎對他可以適用\n\n04:09.724 --> 04:27.130\n司法院在1997年有辦理一個消費者債務清理事件應注意事項對於金融機構的定義是要主管機關認定目前我剛剛才問了金管會他們不認為這是他們管的人\n\n04:28.375 --> 04:52.425\n所以這是這個國家是要推來推去嗎不是這樣的意思我們的意思是說當時我們把金融機關的定義是去參考金融合併法然後設定這幾個金融機構我們主要的目的是因為在消債條例實行的時候要有一個主要最大的金融機構去號召\n\n04:54.026 --> 05:18.751\n其他各個金融機構像中租公司這些這麼大的融資註定公司還不夠大嗎主要是中租公司我是說類似啦我沒有什麼意見我只是說15年了這個機制該修正就要修第二個這些人他們的狀況已經超過當年的卡債規模跟數量都已經比卡債有過\n\n05:20.271 --> 05:20.712\n對於打詐也好：\n\n05:41.173 --> 05:41.213\n納入再親\n\n06:07.034 --> 06:13.376\n現在幾乎是非常普遍沒有車也可以買車買了車還可以再帶更多錢這個已經變成你說他沒有影響交易秩序我認為我們\n\n06:36.604 --> 06:41.746\n法院可以先檢討這個部分嗎?去年說要研議,到現在還沒有給答案。好,那請給我一個正式的書面,告訴大家可以用,讓法院可以受理,一般消費者也可以去申訴。\n\n06:57.833 --> 06:57.953\n可以嗎?\n\n07:27.825 --> 07:47.631\n我們的意思就是說不要讓這種明明就存在我們假裝沒看見然後讓它不斷地做大將來就跟當年放任卡債一樣台灣政府現在是放任影子銀行做大的最大的幫兇\n\n07:49.091 --> 08:16.604\n金管會不管司法院這邊就是等著看所以大家都不管融資注定公司變成畫外之地第二個他們的資產已經大到不能倒他們大到資產三家公司加起來已經1.5兆了他們的應收賬款就有1兆然後呆帳可以有上百億表示我們有多少人是在這上面受到很大的衝擊如果我們要導正\n\n08:18.285 --> 08:18.325\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.07,"end":0.737,"text":"珊珊委員發言謝謝"},{"start":7.762,"end":28.415,"text":"秘書長我想請問一下我們的債務清理條例大概是民國95年通過的那這幾年其實已經從95年到現在已經將近18年目前法院司法院對於債清條例它的成效還有現在執行的狀況您的看法是什麼是我們請民視聽那個周庭長"},{"start":35.082,"end":45.69,"text":"關於我們目前債務清理條例的那個申請事件跟裁定准許的比例數量應該少很多了吧"},{"start":47.195,"end":72.463,"text":"其實有在下降但是現在有一些新興的所謂15年來大概我們的內容在性條例其實沒有太多的修正幾乎沒有對於新的狀況做一些調整這邊我想跟秘書長分享就是說現在台灣其實最大的影子銀行你知道是誰嗎"},{"start":75.468,"end":99.321,"text":"銀子銀行非金融機構其實都在做債務的融資甚至處理對吧融資公司有6000多家有三大家融資處理公司資產非常的龐大但是他們都在債清條例之外對吧目前為止他不是用債清條例嗎"},{"start":101.378,"end":128.344,"text":"這個部分我想是用債清條例不曉得委員關心的是不是所謂他的金融機構的定義的大小的問題是的沒錯因為我們以前的卡債主要是立法的時候是針對銀行尤其是當時信用卡的卡債然後他可能是沒有擔保所以他有一些所謂的信用上面的風險而且在銀行應該要告知或者是對於利率還有負擔"},{"start":129.884,"end":158.231,"text":"但是經過10多年銀行被管得很嚴可是外面的融資越來越多大家看過一個影片叫做山道猴子的一生嗎免頭款全貸款還可以再超貸去一筆錢去改裝所以很多的年輕人幾乎就是掉到這個陷阱裡面那最嚴重的看到很多的民間的新聞好了"},{"start":158.971,"end":183.17,"text":"有人去買了一台休旅車貸款90萬後來錢不夠呢融資公司又打來行銷你還可以再轉貸變貸147萬也就是這些融資公司他是用行銷促銷的方式讓借錢的人借更多的錢負擔更多的債但是他又不受到你們原來債券條例的規範"},{"start":184.531,"end":185.472,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":196.856,"end":220.599,"text":"跟委員報告就是關於這個剛剛委員提到兩個問題就是我們的金融管理融資公司這些其實他在債務經理條例他是債權人的地位那麼其實債權人的地位這些金融融資公司好了或者我們一般的資產管理公司"},{"start":221.38,"end":245.904,"text":"他雖然不能像銀行那樣去召開所謂債權人的協商會議他還是一個所謂融資的類金融機構他是大宗的債權人沒有錯但是其實就債務人來適用這個消債條例其實是沒有影響的是沒有影響他可以適用嗎對他可以適用"},{"start":249.724,"end":267.13,"text":"司法院在1997年有辦理一個消費者債務清理事件應注意事項對於金融機構的定義是要主管機關認定目前我剛剛才問了金管會他們不認為這是他們管的人"},{"start":268.375,"end":292.425,"text":"所以這是這個國家是要推來推去嗎不是這樣的意思我們的意思是說當時我們把金融機關的定義是去參考金融合併法然後設定這幾個金融機構我們主要的目的是因為在消債條例實行的時候要有一個主要最大的金融機構去號召"},{"start":294.026,"end":318.751,"text":"其他各個金融機構像中租公司這些這麼大的融資註定公司還不夠大嗎主要是中租公司我是說類似啦我沒有什麼意見我只是說15年了這個機制該修正就要修第二個這些人他們的狀況已經超過當年的卡債規模跟數量都已經比卡債有過"},{"start":320.271,"end":320.712,"text":"對於打詐也好："},{"start":341.173,"end":341.213,"text":"納入再親"},{"start":367.034,"end":373.376,"text":"現在幾乎是非常普遍沒有車也可以買車買了車還可以再帶更多錢這個已經變成你說他沒有影響交易秩序我認為我們"},{"start":396.604,"end":401.746,"text":"法院可以先檢討這個部分嗎?去年說要研議,到現在還沒有給答案。好,那請給我一個正式的書面,告訴大家可以用,讓法院可以受理,一般消費者也可以去申訴。"},{"start":417.833,"end":417.953,"text":"可以嗎?"},{"start":447.825,"end":467.631,"text":"我們的意思就是說不要讓這種明明就存在我們假裝沒看見然後讓它不斷地做大將來就跟當年放任卡債一樣台灣政府現在是放任影子銀行做大的最大的幫兇"},{"start":469.091,"end":496.604,"text":"金管會不管司法院這邊就是等著看所以大家都不管融資注定公司變成畫外之地第二個他們的資產已經大到不能倒他們大到資產三家公司加起來已經1.5兆了他們的應收賬款就有1兆然後呆帳可以有上百億表示我們有多少人是在這上面受到很大的衝擊如果我們要導正"},{"start":498.285,"end":498.325,"text":"主席"}]}}}}