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12:12:57","影片長度":"00:07:27","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：審查委員傅崐萁等33人擬具「花東快速公路建設特別條例草案」案。【詢答及處理】【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":447,"end_time":"2024-03-25T12:12:57+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T12:05:30+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":867,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（12時5分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：謝謝部長，麻煩。"],["王部長國材：高金委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：部長好。對於今天討論的花東快速公路建設特別條例，其實你在你的報告裡已經做了結論。你的結論是「依據目前公共建設推動之評估審議程序，不僅開發過程需兼顧程序正義，亦需確保花東地區環境人文之永續發展，故請求大院委員審慎考量；並能基於憲政分際，充分尊重行政權完整性，不宜擅為增加預算支出，本條例確實有窒礙難行之處。」所以是不要囉？是吧？"],["王部長國材：對，但是……"],["高金委員素梅：跟你剛剛講的8月份有可行性評估好像有一點點邏輯不通。"],["王部長國材：但是跟高金委員報告，對於花東快速公路，我還是支持繼續推動。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。","我接下來要告訴您，針對花東人民需要一條安全回家的路，我和你做歷史性的交流、溝通，也告知您。我覺得好的政策、對人民有利的政策就應該持續支持，這是政府存在的需要跟必要，也是人民繳的納稅錢，應該予以完成的。看一下1990年2月，也就是34年前，行政院就已經核定改善交通全盤計畫，把蘇花高速公路跟花東高速公路列為環島高速公路網的發展計畫之一，也就是34年前我們的政府就已經看到前瞻的東西，但34年過去了，這個行政院核定的東部最重要的交通建設還停擺著。除了這個行政院核定的計畫把它停擺著之外，又有了蘇花改、蘇花安、蘇花替，但就是沒有蘇花高。蘇花公路到現在也是支離破碎的，花東高速公路更毫無訊息。","看一下2007年，行政院又核定了東部永續發展綱要計畫，以非常華麗的詞藻宣示什麼？東部地區是臺灣最後一塊淨土，東部的發展不可以追逐西部的模式喔！坦白講，白話文就是西部有高鐵，東部就不要有；西部有高速公路，東部就不能有；西部有快速道路，東部就不能有，因為不可以追逐西部的模式。然後，取而代之的是什麼？建設東部為具有多元文化特質、自然生態景觀、優質生活環境跟國際級觀光景點的區域永續發展典範，要成為大家所關注的議題。講得非常好聽喔！但好像就是沒有安全回家的路。所以我的解釋是因為沒有安全回家的路，導致花東地區每一次被人家關注的議題就是非常大的、重要的交通事故，還有買不到車票，或者是現在的雪隧塞車。","再看一下，2011年政府為了照顧、重視我們花東居民，又把原本的東部永續發展綱要計畫提升為法律位階的花東地區發展條例，規定政府要以10年時間撥400億。好多錢喔！看來不是沒有錢啊！政府也有錢啊！這400億要做為什麼之用呢？觀光、文化、醫療、社福、交通，還有基礎建設。你今天又在報告裡提到花東非常多交通基礎建設，所以不是沒有錢啊！動不動就是兩千多億、動不動就是三千多億。所以沒有預算、沒有什麼都不是重要的，而是政府的決策到底為何。","我們再來看一下。花東地區提出第四期，也就是113年到116年綜合發展實施方案的現況分析，它是怎麼分析呢？第一，從觀光客的觀點，疫情舒緩之後，111年臺東縣旅客人數增加了280萬人次，成長了52.99%。然而，從本地也就是花東居民的觀點，不僅僅是原住民族人喔！他們認為偏鄉醫療資源是不足的，長期以來都是花東居民深刻的痛。我們檢視全國重度級急救責任醫院名單，花蓮縣只有花蓮慈濟醫院，臺東縣只有台東馬偕紀念醫院，都分布在哪裡？花蓮跟臺東的北區。但花東地區從南區到北區交通最起碼超過1個小時以上啊！如果我們有重大傷病，往往就會發生錯失搶救機會的狀況。所以必須有快速道路機制才可以解決這些問題啊！這些都是你們113年到116年綜合發展實施方案裡面的現況分析喔！所以不管是從醫療角度、不管是從交通角度、不管是從政府應該做的事情來看，部長，您還是認為窒礙難行嗎？您支持嗎？"],["王部長國材：我現在沒有講花東快速公路窒礙難行，而是講條例啦！"],["高金委員素梅：那條例有什麼窒礙難行的？你剛剛說違憲，但在場委員就告訴你違不違憲不是你部長說的。"],["王部長國材：是，我主要是表達中長程計畫有我們的評估程序啦！"],["高金委員素梅：然後呢？"],["王部長國材：如果這個……"],["高金委員素梅：你剛剛說8月份會有一份評估報告吧？"],["王部長國材：對，就做出來了，所以……"],["高金委員素梅：現在已經快要4月了，請問一下評估報告裡面的內容？能不能宣布一下是什麼？可是我看到你今天的報告結論就是窒礙難行、無法推動啊！"],["王部長國材：是，那是在講條例。"],["高金委員素梅：這是什麼意思？能不能再講清楚一點？到底可不可以？"],["王部長國材：我再講一下。對於花東快速道路計畫，我們支持它往前走，現在在做可行性評估……"],["高金委員素梅：可是它違憲？由立法委員提出來是違憲的？"],["王部長國材：道路建設沒有違憲，而是不需要用這個條例。我也不想用違憲這個字，但就是不需要用這個條例，我們現在就在進行了。如果針對個案就用條例是什麼意思呢？例如捷運也要做特別條例，每一個人都把他的個案計畫變成特別條例啊！我是覺得這樣也不妥。"],["高金委員素梅：你的意思是不要提條例，但是花東快速公路是可以完成的？"],["王部長國材：對，我們現在在做……"],["高金委員素梅：甚至高速公路也可以？"],["王部長國材：現在就是……"],["高金委員素梅：我剛剛說了，34年前就已經有這些花東建設計畫。"],["王部長國材：不過現在可行性研究是針對快速道路，現在是做快速道路。"],["高金委員素梅：好啦！官員都在這邊，部長，我也很尊重您，520之後您還能不能在這個位子上，我們還不太清楚，所以您這一天在這邊的態度其實也不能真正代表現在政府的態度或未來政府的態度。但任何一個民意代表在這邊告訴大家的都是花東居民需要，而且從34年前就已經設定花東居民需要一條快速、安全回家的道路，不要任何政府執政之後態度都不一樣。我是一個無黨籍的委員、是沒有任何顏色的，我也希望未來的政府應該朝花東全民的利益著想，而不是要選舉的時候提出什麼樣的政策，而選舉結束又說窒礙難行，這是在欺騙花東鄉親，好嗎？"],["王部長國材：我們對於建設都會支持啦！"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝高金素梅委員。","下一位請黃建賓委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":472,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-5","speakers":["陳雪生","傅崐萁","李昆澤","廖先翔","黃健豪","游顥","徐富癸","林國成","魯明哲","蔡其昌","陳素月","何欣純","林俊憲","邱若華","許智傑","鄭天財Sra 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0.875}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 440.101, \"end\": 440.141, \"score\": 0.454}, {\"word\": \"鄉\"}, {\"word\": \"親\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 440.141, \"end\": 440.161, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,647 --> 00:00:05,153\n謝謝主席我們要請部長好謝謝部長麻煩\n\n2\n00:00:09,587 --> 00:00:38,290\n部長好,對於今天那花東快速公路的建設特別條例其實你在你的報告裡面已經做了結論了你的結論是說依據目前公共建設推動的評估程序程序不僅開發過程需要兼顧程序正義也要確保花東地區環境人文的永續發展所以請求大院委員審慎考量必能基於憲政分際充分尊重行政權的完整性不宜善為增加預算支出\n\n3\n00:00:39,051 --> 00:00:57,304\n本條例確實有自愛難行之處所以是不要囉是吧跟你剛剛講的8月份有可行性蘋果好像有一點點的邏輯不同但是我覺得花東快速公路我還是支持他繼續推行好謝謝那我就跟您說我接下來要告訴你這個\n\n4\n00:00:58,385 --> 00:01:20,372\n今天對於花東的人民需要一個安全回家的歷史性的跟你做一個交流跟溝通跟告知您我覺得好的政策對人民有利的應該就要持續來支持這是政府存在的需要跟必要也是人民繳納稅前應該要予以來完成的看一下1990年2月也就是34年前\n\n5\n00:01:22,973 --> 00:01:46,859\n行政院就已經合定了改善交通全盤計劃然後把舒花高速公路跟花東高速公路列為環島高速公路網的發展計劃之一也就是34年前我們的政府就已經看到了前瞻的東西34年過去了這個行政院合定的東部最重要的交通建設還停擺著然後呢這個行政院合定\n\n6\n00:01:47,879 --> 00:01:49,500\n而花東高速公路更毫無訊息\n\n7\n00:02:03,328 --> 00:02:18,197\n看一下2007年行政院又核定了東部永續發展綱要計劃以非常華麗的遲早來宣誓說什麼東部地區是台灣最後一塊的淨土東部的發展不可以追逐西部的模式喔\n\n8\n00:02:19,478 --> 00:02:34,489\n拜託白話文就是西部有高鐵東部就不要有西部有高速公路東部就不能有西部有快速道路東部就不能有因為不可以追逐西部的魔術然後取而代之的是什麼建設東部是具有\n\n9\n00:02:35,595 --> 00:03:01,903\n多元文化特質自然生態景觀優質生活環境跟國際級的觀光景點的區域永續發展典範然後要成為這個大家所關注的議題講得非常好聽喔好像就是沒有安全回家的路所以我的解釋是說沒有安全回家的路花東地區每一次被人家關注的議題就是非常大的重要的交通事故\n\n10\n00:03:02,583 --> 00:03:24,980\n還有買不到車票或者是現在的血稅塞車再來看一下2011年政府為了要再度重視我們花東居民然後又把原本的東部永續發展綱要計劃提升為法律未接的花東地區發展條例然後規定我們的政府呢要以10年的時間撥400億好多錢喔看來\n\n11\n00:03:27,742 --> 00:03:45,529\n不是沒有錢啊政府也有錢啊然後你們這400億要作為什麼呢觀光文化醫療社福交通還有基礎建設所以你今天的報告裡面都花東了非常多的交通的基礎建設不是沒有錢啊動不動就是2000多億動不動就是3000多億\n\n12\n00:03:48,710 --> 00:04:12,326\n所以沒有預算沒有什麽都不是重要的而是政府的決策到底我們再來看一下花東地區提出第4期也就是113年到116年綜合發展實施方案的現況分析他什麽分析呢第一從觀光客的觀點疫情舒緩了之後我們看一下111年台東縣的旅客人數增加了280萬次成長了52.99%\n\n13\n00:04:17,469 --> 00:04:39,643\n然後這從本地也就是花東居民的觀點不僅僅是原住民族族人偏向醫療資源是不足的長期以來都是花東居民深刻的痛我們檢視全國重度級的急救責任醫院的名單花蓮縣只有花蓮慈濟醫院有臺東縣只有臺東馬界醫院醫院都分布在哪裡花蓮跟臺東的北區\n\n14\n00:05:12,025 --> 00:05:20,694\n還是自愛難行嗎?您支持嗎?我現在沒有講那個花東快速公路自愛難行我是講條例啦那條例有什麼自愛難行?你剛剛說違憲剛剛在場的委員就告訴你違不違憲不是你部長說的我主要是在這個中長城計畫有我們的評估程序\n\n15\n00:05:31,947 --> 00:05:57,247\n然後呢?你剛說8月份有個評估報告吧?那現在已經是快要4月了那請問一下評估報告裡面的能不能宣布一下是什麼可是我又看到你今天的結論就是說是自愛難行無法推動嗎?這是什麼?什麼意思?你們再講清楚一點到底可不可以?花東快速道路我們是支持他往前走做可行性可是他是違憲\n\n16\n00:05:58,909 --> 00:06:27,370\n議員提出來是違憲的道路建設沒有違憲是說不需要用這個條例我也不想用什麼違憲這個字但是就是不需要用這個條例我們現在就要進行了因為你如果個案就用這個條例是什麼意思每一項決議也要特別條例什麼每一個人都把他的個案計畫都是變成特別條例我是覺得這樣那你的意思說不要提條例但是呢花東快速公路是可以甚至於高速公路也可以\n\n17\n00:06:28,944 --> 00:06:44,285\n我剛說了34年前就已經有花東的這些建設不過現在可行是做快速道路現在是做快速道路是好啦我覺得官員在這邊部長我很尊重您520之後可能您能不能在這個位置上我們還不太清楚\n\n18\n00:06:44,865 --> 00:07:04,997\n所以您今天在這邊的態度其實也不能夠真正代表現在政府的態度或者是未來政府的態度但是我們今天任何一個民意代表在這邊告訴大家的是花東居民需要從34年前就已經設定花東居民需要一個快速安全回家的道路不要任何一個政府執政了之後態度都不一樣\n\n19\n00:07:05,717 --> 00:07:20,161\n我是一個無黨籍的沒有任何顏色的我也希望未來的政府應該是朝全民花東全民的利益而著想而不是說要選舉的時候提出什麼樣的政策要選舉結束以後又說自愛難行這是在欺騙花東的鄉親好嗎謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2647\t5153\t謝謝主席我們要請部長好謝謝部長麻煩\n9587\t38290\t部長好,對於今天那花東快速公路的建設特別條例其實你在你的報告裡面已經做了結論了你的結論是說依據目前公共建設推動的評估程序程序不僅開發過程需要兼顧程序正義也要確保花東地區環境人文的永續發展所以請求大院委員審慎考量必能基於憲政分際充分尊重行政權的完整性不宜善為增加預算支出\n39051\t57304\t本條例確實有自愛難行之處所以是不要囉是吧跟你剛剛講的8月份有可行性蘋果好像有一點點的邏輯不同但是我覺得花東快速公路我還是支持他繼續推行好謝謝那我就跟您說我接下來要告訴你這個\n58385\t80372\t今天對於花東的人民需要一個安全回家的歷史性的跟你做一個交流跟溝通跟告知您我覺得好的政策對人民有利的應該就要持續來支持這是政府存在的需要跟必要也是人民繳納稅前應該要予以來完成的看一下1990年2月也就是34年前\n82973\t106859\t行政院就已經合定了改善交通全盤計劃然後把舒花高速公路跟花東高速公路列為環島高速公路網的發展計劃之一也就是34年前我們的政府就已經看到了前瞻的東西34年過去了這個行政院合定的東部最重要的交通建設還停擺著然後呢這個行政院合定\n107879\t109500\t而花東高速公路更毫無訊息\n123328\t138197\t看一下2007年行政院又核定了東部永續發展綱要計劃以非常華麗的遲早來宣誓說什麼東部地區是台灣最後一塊的淨土東部的發展不可以追逐西部的模式喔\n139478\t154489\t拜託白話文就是西部有高鐵東部就不要有西部有高速公路東部就不能有西部有快速道路東部就不能有因為不可以追逐西部的魔術然後取而代之的是什麼建設東部是具有\n155595\t181903\t多元文化特質自然生態景觀優質生活環境跟國際級的觀光景點的區域永續發展典範然後要成為這個大家所關注的議題講得非常好聽喔好像就是沒有安全回家的路所以我的解釋是說沒有安全回家的路花東地區每一次被人家關注的議題就是非常大的重要的交通事故\n182583\t204980\t還有買不到車票或者是現在的血稅塞車再來看一下2011年政府為了要再度重視我們花東居民然後又把原本的東部永續發展綱要計劃提升為法律未接的花東地區發展條例然後規定我們的政府呢要以10年的時間撥400億好多錢喔看來\n207742\t225529\t不是沒有錢啊政府也有錢啊然後你們這400億要作為什麼呢觀光文化醫療社福交通還有基礎建設所以你今天的報告裡面都花東了非常多的交通的基礎建設不是沒有錢啊動不動就是2000多億動不動就是3000多億\n228710\t252326\t所以沒有預算沒有什麽都不是重要的而是政府的決策到底我們再來看一下花東地區提出第4期也就是113年到116年綜合發展實施方案的現況分析他什麽分析呢第一從觀光客的觀點疫情舒緩了之後我們看一下111年台東縣的旅客人數增加了280萬次成長了52.99%\n257469\t279643\t然後這從本地也就是花東居民的觀點不僅僅是原住民族族人偏向醫療資源是不足的長期以來都是花東居民深刻的痛我們檢視全國重度級的急救責任醫院的名單花蓮縣只有花蓮慈濟醫院有臺東縣只有臺東馬界醫院醫院都分布在哪裡花蓮跟臺東的北區\n281544\t311544\t﹗\n312025\t320694\t還是自愛難行嗎?您支持嗎?我現在沒有講那個花東快速公路自愛難行我是講條例啦那條例有什麼自愛難行?你剛剛說違憲剛剛在場的委員就告訴你違不違憲不是你部長說的我主要是在這個中長城計畫有我們的評估程序\n331947\t357247\t然後呢?你剛說8月份有個評估報告吧?那現在已經是快要4月了那請問一下評估報告裡面的能不能宣布一下是什麼可是我又看到你今天的結論就是說是自愛難行無法推動嗎?這是什麼?什麼意思?你們再講清楚一點到底可不可以?花東快速道路我們是支持他往前走做可行性可是他是違憲\n358909\t387370\t議員提出來是違憲的道路建設沒有違憲是說不需要用這個條例我也不想用什麼違憲這個字但是就是不需要用這個條例我們現在就要進行了因為你如果個案就用這個條例是什麼意思每一項決議也要特別條例什麼每一個人都把他的個案計畫都是變成特別條例我是覺得這樣那你的意思說不要提條例但是呢花東快速公路是可以甚至於高速公路也可以\n388944\t404285\t我剛說了34年前就已經有花東的這些建設不過現在可行是做快速道路現在是做快速道路是好啦我覺得官員在這邊部長我很尊重您520之後可能您能不能在這個位置上我們還不太清楚\n404865\t424997\t所以您今天在這邊的態度其實也不能夠真正代表現在政府的態度或者是未來政府的態度但是我們今天任何一個民意代表在這邊告訴大家的是花東居民需要從34年前就已經設定花東居民需要一個快速安全回家的道路不要任何一個政府執政了之後態度都不一樣\n425717\t440161\t我是一個無黨籍的沒有任何顏色的我也希望未來的政府應該是朝全民花東全民的利益而著想而不是說要選舉的時候提出什麼樣的政策要選舉結束以後又說自愛難行這是在欺騙花東的鄉親好嗎謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們要請部長好謝謝部長麻煩\n部長好,對於今天那花東快速公路的建設特別條例其實你在你的報告裡面已經做了結論了你的結論是說依據目前公共建設推動的評估程序程序不僅開發過程需要兼顧程序正義也要確保花東地區環境人文的永續發展所以請求大院委員審慎考量必能基於憲政分際充分尊重行政權的完整性不宜善為增加預算支出\n本條例確實有自愛難行之處所以是不要囉是吧跟你剛剛講的8月份有可行性蘋果好像有一點點的邏輯不同但是我覺得花東快速公路我還是支持他繼續推行好謝謝那我就跟您說我接下來要告訴你這個\n今天對於花東的人民需要一個安全回家的歷史性的跟你做一個交流跟溝通跟告知您我覺得好的政策對人民有利的應該就要持續來支持這是政府存在的需要跟必要也是人民繳納稅前應該要予以來完成的看一下1990年2月也就是34年前\n行政院就已經合定了改善交通全盤計劃然後把舒花高速公路跟花東高速公路列為環島高速公路網的發展計劃之一也就是34年前我們的政府就已經看到了前瞻的東西34年過去了這個行政院合定的東部最重要的交通建設還停擺著然後呢這個行政院合定\n而花東高速公路更毫無訊息\n看一下2007年行政院又核定了東部永續發展綱要計劃以非常華麗的遲早來宣誓說什麼東部地區是台灣最後一塊的淨土東部的發展不可以追逐西部的模式喔\n拜託白話文就是西部有高鐵東部就不要有西部有高速公路東部就不能有西部有快速道路東部就不能有因為不可以追逐西部的魔術然後取而代之的是什麼建設東部是具有\n多元文化特質自然生態景觀優質生活環境跟國際級的觀光景點的區域永續發展典範然後要成為這個大家所關注的議題講得非常好聽喔好像就是沒有安全回家的路所以我的解釋是說沒有安全回家的路花東地區每一次被人家關注的議題就是非常大的重要的交通事故\n還有買不到車票或者是現在的血稅塞車再來看一下2011年政府為了要再度重視我們花東居民然後又把原本的東部永續發展綱要計劃提升為法律未接的花東地區發展條例然後規定我們的政府呢要以10年的時間撥400億好多錢喔看來\n不是沒有錢啊政府也有錢啊然後你們這400億要作為什麼呢觀光文化醫療社福交通還有基礎建設所以你今天的報告裡面都花東了非常多的交通的基礎建設不是沒有錢啊動不動就是2000多億動不動就是3000多億\n所以沒有預算沒有什麽都不是重要的而是政府的決策到底我們再來看一下花東地區提出第4期也就是113年到116年綜合發展實施方案的現況分析他什麽分析呢第一從觀光客的觀點疫情舒緩了之後我們看一下111年台東縣的旅客人數增加了280萬次成長了52.99%\n然後這從本地也就是花東居民的觀點不僅僅是原住民族族人偏向醫療資源是不足的長期以來都是花東居民深刻的痛我們檢視全國重度級的急救責任醫院的名單花蓮縣只有花蓮慈濟醫院有臺東縣只有臺東馬界醫院醫院都分布在哪裡花蓮跟臺東的北區\n﹗\n還是自愛難行嗎?您支持嗎?我現在沒有講那個花東快速公路自愛難行我是講條例啦那條例有什麼自愛難行?你剛剛說違憲剛剛在場的委員就告訴你違不違憲不是你部長說的我主要是在這個中長城計畫有我們的評估程序\n然後呢?你剛說8月份有個評估報告吧?那現在已經是快要4月了那請問一下評估報告裡面的能不能宣布一下是什麼可是我又看到你今天的結論就是說是自愛難行無法推動嗎?這是什麼?什麼意思?你們再講清楚一點到底可不可以?花東快速道路我們是支持他往前走做可行性可是他是違憲\n議員提出來是違憲的道路建設沒有違憲是說不需要用這個條例我也不想用什麼違憲這個字但是就是不需要用這個條例我們現在就要進行了因為你如果個案就用這個條例是什麼意思每一項決議也要特別條例什麼每一個人都把他的個案計畫都是變成特別條例我是覺得這樣那你的意思說不要提條例但是呢花東快速公路是可以甚至於高速公路也可以\n我剛說了34年前就已經有花東的這些建設不過現在可行是做快速道路現在是做快速道路是好啦我覺得官員在這邊部長我很尊重您520之後可能您能不能在這個位置上我們還不太清楚\n所以您今天在這邊的態度其實也不能夠真正代表現在政府的態度或者是未來政府的態度但是我們今天任何一個民意代表在這邊告訴大家的是花東居民需要從34年前就已經設定花東居民需要一個快速安全回家的道路不要任何一個政府執政了之後態度都不一樣\n我是一個無黨籍的沒有任何顏色的我也希望未來的政府應該是朝全民花東全民的利益而著想而不是說要選舉的時候提出什麼樣的政策要選舉結束以後又說自愛難行這是在欺騙花東的鄉親好嗎謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.647 --> 00:05.153\n謝謝主席我們要請部長好謝謝部長麻煩\n\n00:09.587 --> 00:38.290\n部長好,對於今天那花東快速公路的建設特別條例其實你在你的報告裡面已經做了結論了你的結論是說依據目前公共建設推動的評估程序程序不僅開發過程需要兼顧程序正義也要確保花東地區環境人文的永續發展所以請求大院委員審慎考量必能基於憲政分際充分尊重行政權的完整性不宜善為增加預算支出\n\n00:39.051 --> 00:57.304\n本條例確實有自愛難行之處所以是不要囉是吧跟你剛剛講的8月份有可行性蘋果好像有一點點的邏輯不同但是我覺得花東快速公路我還是支持他繼續推行好謝謝那我就跟您說我接下來要告訴你這個\n\n00:58.385 --> 01:20.372\n今天對於花東的人民需要一個安全回家的歷史性的跟你做一個交流跟溝通跟告知您我覺得好的政策對人民有利的應該就要持續來支持這是政府存在的需要跟必要也是人民繳納稅前應該要予以來完成的看一下1990年2月也就是34年前\n\n01:22.973 --> 01:46.859\n行政院就已經合定了改善交通全盤計劃然後把舒花高速公路跟花東高速公路列為環島高速公路網的發展計劃之一也就是34年前我們的政府就已經看到了前瞻的東西34年過去了這個行政院合定的東部最重要的交通建設還停擺著然後呢這個行政院合定\n\n01:47.879 --> 01:49.500\n而花東高速公路更毫無訊息\n\n02:03.328 --> 02:18.197\n看一下2007年行政院又核定了東部永續發展綱要計劃以非常華麗的遲早來宣誓說什麼東部地區是台灣最後一塊的淨土東部的發展不可以追逐西部的模式喔\n\n02:19.478 --> 02:34.489\n拜託白話文就是西部有高鐵東部就不要有西部有高速公路東部就不能有西部有快速道路東部就不能有因為不可以追逐西部的魔術然後取而代之的是什麼建設東部是具有\n\n02:35.595 --> 03:01.903\n多元文化特質自然生態景觀優質生活環境跟國際級的觀光景點的區域永續發展典範然後要成為這個大家所關注的議題講得非常好聽喔好像就是沒有安全回家的路所以我的解釋是說沒有安全回家的路花東地區每一次被人家關注的議題就是非常大的重要的交通事故\n\n03:02.583 --> 03:24.980\n還有買不到車票或者是現在的血稅塞車再來看一下2011年政府為了要再度重視我們花東居民然後又把原本的東部永續發展綱要計劃提升為法律未接的花東地區發展條例然後規定我們的政府呢要以10年的時間撥400億好多錢喔看來\n\n03:27.742 --> 03:45.529\n不是沒有錢啊政府也有錢啊然後你們這400億要作為什麼呢觀光文化醫療社福交通還有基礎建設所以你今天的報告裡面都花東了非常多的交通的基礎建設不是沒有錢啊動不動就是2000多億動不動就是3000多億\n\n03:48.710 --> 04:12.326\n所以沒有預算沒有什麽都不是重要的而是政府的決策到底我們再來看一下花東地區提出第4期也就是113年到116年綜合發展實施方案的現況分析他什麽分析呢第一從觀光客的觀點疫情舒緩了之後我們看一下111年台東縣的旅客人數增加了280萬次成長了52.99%\n\n04:17.469 --> 04:39.643\n然後這從本地也就是花東居民的觀點不僅僅是原住民族族人偏向醫療資源是不足的長期以來都是花東居民深刻的痛我們檢視全國重度級的急救責任醫院的名單花蓮縣只有花蓮慈濟醫院有臺東縣只有臺東馬界醫院醫院都分布在哪裡花蓮跟臺東的北區\n\n05:12.025 --> 05:20.694\n還是自愛難行嗎?您支持嗎?我現在沒有講那個花東快速公路自愛難行我是講條例啦那條例有什麼自愛難行?你剛剛說違憲剛剛在場的委員就告訴你違不違憲不是你部長說的我主要是在這個中長城計畫有我們的評估程序\n\n05:31.947 --> 05:57.247\n然後呢?你剛說8月份有個評估報告吧?那現在已經是快要4月了那請問一下評估報告裡面的能不能宣布一下是什麼可是我又看到你今天的結論就是說是自愛難行無法推動嗎?這是什麼?什麼意思?你們再講清楚一點到底可不可以?花東快速道路我們是支持他往前走做可行性可是他是違憲\n\n05:58.909 --> 06:27.370\n議員提出來是違憲的道路建設沒有違憲是說不需要用這個條例我也不想用什麼違憲這個字但是就是不需要用這個條例我們現在就要進行了因為你如果個案就用這個條例是什麼意思每一項決議也要特別條例什麼每一個人都把他的個案計畫都是變成特別條例我是覺得這樣那你的意思說不要提條例但是呢花東快速公路是可以甚至於高速公路也可以\n\n06:28.944 --> 06:44.285\n我剛說了34年前就已經有花東的這些建設不過現在可行是做快速道路現在是做快速道路是好啦我覺得官員在這邊部長我很尊重您520之後可能您能不能在這個位置上我們還不太清楚\n\n06:44.865 --> 07:04.997\n所以您今天在這邊的態度其實也不能夠真正代表現在政府的態度或者是未來政府的態度但是我們今天任何一個民意代表在這邊告訴大家的是花東居民需要從34年前就已經設定花東居民需要一個快速安全回家的道路不要任何一個政府執政了之後態度都不一樣\n\n07:05.717 --> 07:20.161\n我是一個無黨籍的沒有任何顏色的我也希望未來的政府應該是朝全民花東全民的利益而著想而不是說要選舉的時候提出什麼樣的政策要選舉結束以後又說自愛難行這是在欺騙花東的鄉親好嗎謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.647,"end":5.153,"text":"謝謝主席我們要請部長好謝謝部長麻煩"},{"start":9.587,"end":38.29,"text":"部長好,對於今天那花東快速公路的建設特別條例其實你在你的報告裡面已經做了結論了你的結論是說依據目前公共建設推動的評估程序程序不僅開發過程需要兼顧程序正義也要確保花東地區環境人文的永續發展所以請求大院委員審慎考量必能基於憲政分際充分尊重行政權的完整性不宜善為增加預算支出"},{"start":39.051,"end":57.304,"text":"本條例確實有自愛難行之處所以是不要囉是吧跟你剛剛講的8月份有可行性蘋果好像有一點點的邏輯不同但是我覺得花東快速公路我還是支持他繼續推行好謝謝那我就跟您說我接下來要告訴你這個"},{"start":58.385,"end":80.372,"text":"今天對於花東的人民需要一個安全回家的歷史性的跟你做一個交流跟溝通跟告知您我覺得好的政策對人民有利的應該就要持續來支持這是政府存在的需要跟必要也是人民繳納稅前應該要予以來完成的看一下1990年2月也就是34年前"},{"start":82.973,"end":106.859,"text":"行政院就已經合定了改善交通全盤計劃然後把舒花高速公路跟花東高速公路列為環島高速公路網的發展計劃之一也就是34年前我們的政府就已經看到了前瞻的東西34年過去了這個行政院合定的東部最重要的交通建設還停擺著然後呢這個行政院合定"},{"start":107.879,"end":109.5,"text":"而花東高速公路更毫無訊息"},{"start":123.328,"end":138.197,"text":"看一下2007年行政院又核定了東部永續發展綱要計劃以非常華麗的遲早來宣誓說什麼東部地區是台灣最後一塊的淨土東部的發展不可以追逐西部的模式喔"},{"start":139.478,"end":154.489,"text":"拜託白話文就是西部有高鐵東部就不要有西部有高速公路東部就不能有西部有快速道路東部就不能有因為不可以追逐西部的魔術然後取而代之的是什麼建設東部是具有"},{"start":155.595,"end":181.903,"text":"多元文化特質自然生態景觀優質生活環境跟國際級的觀光景點的區域永續發展典範然後要成為這個大家所關注的議題講得非常好聽喔好像就是沒有安全回家的路所以我的解釋是說沒有安全回家的路花東地區每一次被人家關注的議題就是非常大的重要的交通事故"},{"start":182.583,"end":204.98,"text":"還有買不到車票或者是現在的血稅塞車再來看一下2011年政府為了要再度重視我們花東居民然後又把原本的東部永續發展綱要計劃提升為法律未接的花東地區發展條例然後規定我們的政府呢要以10年的時間撥400億好多錢喔看來"},{"start":207.742,"end":225.529,"text":"不是沒有錢啊政府也有錢啊然後你們這400億要作為什麼呢觀光文化醫療社福交通還有基礎建設所以你今天的報告裡面都花東了非常多的交通的基礎建設不是沒有錢啊動不動就是2000多億動不動就是3000多億"},{"start":228.71,"end":252.326,"text":"所以沒有預算沒有什麽都不是重要的而是政府的決策到底我們再來看一下花東地區提出第4期也就是113年到116年綜合發展實施方案的現況分析他什麽分析呢第一從觀光客的觀點疫情舒緩了之後我們看一下111年台東縣的旅客人數增加了280萬次成長了52.99%"},{"start":257.469,"end":279.643,"text":"然後這從本地也就是花東居民的觀點不僅僅是原住民族族人偏向醫療資源是不足的長期以來都是花東居民深刻的痛我們檢視全國重度級的急救責任醫院的名單花蓮縣只有花蓮慈濟醫院有臺東縣只有臺東馬界醫院醫院都分布在哪裡花蓮跟臺東的北區"},{"start":281.544,"end":311.544,"text":"﹗"},{"start":312.025,"end":320.694,"text":"還是自愛難行嗎?您支持嗎?我現在沒有講那個花東快速公路自愛難行我是講條例啦那條例有什麼自愛難行?你剛剛說違憲剛剛在場的委員就告訴你違不違憲不是你部長說的我主要是在這個中長城計畫有我們的評估程序"},{"start":331.947,"end":357.247,"text":"然後呢?你剛說8月份有個評估報告吧?那現在已經是快要4月了那請問一下評估報告裡面的能不能宣布一下是什麼可是我又看到你今天的結論就是說是自愛難行無法推動嗎?這是什麼?什麼意思?你們再講清楚一點到底可不可以?花東快速道路我們是支持他往前走做可行性可是他是違憲"},{"start":358.909,"end":387.37,"text":"議員提出來是違憲的道路建設沒有違憲是說不需要用這個條例我也不想用什麼違憲這個字但是就是不需要用這個條例我們現在就要進行了因為你如果個案就用這個條例是什麼意思每一項決議也要特別條例什麼每一個人都把他的個案計畫都是變成特別條例我是覺得這樣那你的意思說不要提條例但是呢花東快速公路是可以甚至於高速公路也可以"},{"start":388.944,"end":404.285,"text":"我剛說了34年前就已經有花東的這些建設不過現在可行是做快速道路現在是做快速道路是好啦我覺得官員在這邊部長我很尊重您520之後可能您能不能在這個位置上我們還不太清楚"},{"start":404.865,"end":424.997,"text":"所以您今天在這邊的態度其實也不能夠真正代表現在政府的態度或者是未來政府的態度但是我們今天任何一個民意代表在這邊告訴大家的是花東居民需要從34年前就已經設定花東居民需要一個快速安全回家的道路不要任何一個政府執政了之後態度都不一樣"},{"start":425.717,"end":440.161,"text":"我是一個無黨籍的沒有任何顏色的我也希望未來的政府應該是朝全民花東全民的利益而著想而不是說要選舉的時候提出什麼樣的政策要選舉結束以後又說自愛難行這是在欺騙花東的鄉親好嗎謝謝"}]}}}}