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12:29:45","影片長度":"00:05:55","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案(含報告事項20案及討論事項1案)。\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-8"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":355,"end_time":"2024-03-25T12:29:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T12:23:50+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1113,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時24分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長好。本席接續剛才楊瓊瓔委員的提醒，現在勞保的負債，就楊瓊瓔委員提出的數據，2023年是13兆元，但是我們現在的勞保改革，因為要安大家的心，都是說有政府不會倒，她是提醒不要一直說這句話，對不對？你認同嗎？"],["許部長銘春：說這句話主要是讓勞工安心，絕對不是騙術。為什麼？因為這是政府辦的保險，是國家的社會保險，政府一定有這個責任……"],["羅委員智強：為什麼本席這樣講，尤其是最近要少講，你知道嗎？因為如果這個邏輯成立的話，那就是有政府，台電也不會倒，所以就不要漲電價了，對不對？所以有政府不會倒，說真的，這是一個非常簡化的說法，勞保的問題還是要透過根本性的改革才有辦法支撐下去，否則按照這個邏輯，其實電價也不用漲，反正有政府不會倒。","本席想請教部長，您的報告中提到有關職業安全衛生的精進，勞動部的報告是把死亡人數下降當作減災有成效的證明，對不對？其實不只是死亡啦！包括死亡、永久全失能、永久部分失能和暫時全失能的失能傷害次數，是不是也應該做為職業安全衛生的改善指標呢？"],["許部長銘春：是的。"],["羅委員智強：沒錯嘛！請教你，根據主計總處的統計數據，從1998年到現在，我們失能傷害人次最高的是哪三年？你知道嗎？"],["許部長銘春：請委員指教。"],["羅委員智強：本席告訴你，就是2020年、2021年和2022年，連續三年分別高達12,010人次、12,830人次和12,662人次。請教您，為什麼會一直創新高呢？"],["許部長銘春：因為我們災保法通過以後，對失能者的照顧、保護更周全，有可能因此讓這些失能者願意通報，領取相關給付。"],["羅委員智強：就本席看到的數字，事實上除了您剛才說的通報問題以外，和我們的工時數也有關係，對不對？本席就直接說了，蔡英文上任前的2015年，臺灣人的總工時是665,804萬小時。你知道2022年總工時是多少嗎？本席告訴您好了，809,765萬小時啦！所以我們的總工時正在不斷上升，當然，這也不是唯一指標。可是如果我們再繼續看細部的資料，用人次除以工時的失能傷害頻率來看，你知道馬政府上任前的2007年，失能傷害頻率是多少嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我先說明一下，因為我們這幾年的工作人口其實是增加的……"],["羅委員智強：所以本席現在告訴你的，是人次除以工時的失能傷害頻率嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對，我是指您剛才說的總工時漲幅。我的意思是說，我們……"],["羅委員智強：本席已經告訴你，現在主要鋪陳的是人次除以工時，那就是平均數了嘛！對不對？以失能傷害頻率來看，請問馬政府上任前，2007年的頻率是多少？你知道嗎？本席告訴你啦！是2.33啦！2016年他卸任的時候降到1.44，蔡英文是從2016年的1.44到2022年的1.56，顯然失能傷害頻率是增加的，不管是從總數和人次來看，本席覺得這部分不能只推給通報啦！"],["許部長銘春：沒關係，委員，您提出的這個數據讓我們檢討看看，到底其中的關連性如何。這個部分我們來深究一下，我們希望能夠……"],["羅委員智強：您覺得有什麼可以加強或改進的措施，請你們也提供書面資料給本席。"],["許部長銘春：好的，謝謝。"],["羅委員智強：另外，本席覺得勞動部關心職業安全的部分可以更專心一點，你知道為什麼嗎？因為在你們官網的職業安全宣導專區，你知道上面有幾項宣導嗎？就四項啦！其中一項和職業安全毫無關連，是經濟部投資臺灣三大方案延長三年的圖卡。當然，本席也必須說啦！宣傳投資延長的政績很重要，可是也要放對地方吧？","而且重點是，從你們官網各項宣傳品的發布日期來看，2015年以後就再也沒有更新，所以本席覺得，從職業安全這一塊來說，勞動部不管是宣導或是作為都還有努力的空間。"],["許部長銘春：好，我們會加強，這部分也會再檢視一下，謝謝。"],["羅委員智強：以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅智強委員。接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-8","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","王育敏","盧縣一","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","黃國昌","賴士葆","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","徐巧芯","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-25"],"gazette_id":"1131901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實\n職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動\n部主管預算凍結案21案（含報告事項20案及討論事項1案）","agenda_id":"1131901_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150389","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150389","tool":"pyannote","id":"150389-pyannote"},"job_id":"3sNGtZVIckfeQTsO","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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--> 00:00:36,108\n羅文浩部長好我想接續剛剛楊瓊玉委員的一個提醒我看到我們的那個勞保的負債楊瓊玉委員的數據指出2023年是13兆然後但是我們現在勞保改革按大家心中說有政府不會倒他是提醒不要一直在講這句話對不對你認同嗎\n\n3\n00:00:38,982 --> 00:00:56,160\n報告委員因為會講這句話是要讓勞工安心絕對不是騙數為什麼就是因為這是政府辦的保險這是社會保險國家的社會保險我為什麼跟你講尤其最近少講你知道嗎因為最近如果這個邏輯成立的話有政府台電也不會倒那不要漲電價了對不對\n\n4\n00:00:57,924 --> 00:01:20,405\n所以有政府不會倒說真的是一個非常非常簡化的一個說法那勞保的問題還是要透過根本性的改革才有辦法去支撐下去否則那你照這個邏輯講的話電價真的也不用漲反正有政府不會倒我想請教部長您的報告裡面有關於說職業安全衛生的經濟我看到一個\n\n5\n00:01:21,523 --> 00:01:49,449\n勞動部的報告說把死亡人數下降當作減災有成效的證明對不對那我想請教您其實不只是死亡啦包括死亡永久全失能永久部分失能跟暫時全失能的失能傷害次數是不是也應該作為職業安全衛生的改善指標呢是沒錯嘛那我想請教您那根據主計\n\n6\n00:01:51,210 --> 00:02:06,525\n總處的統計數據從1998年到現在我們的私人傷害人次最高的三年是哪三年你知道嗎請委員指教我告訴你就是2020年、2021年跟2022年\n\n7\n00:02:11,348 --> 00:02:17,276\n所以就是這連續3年分別高達12,010人、12,830人跟12,662人次那我想請教您為什麼會一直這樣子創新高呢\n\n8\n00:02:28,590 --> 00:02:51,577\n報告委員因為我們那個災保法通過以後對失能者的一個照顧保護更周全這個有可能就是讓這些失能者願意來通報然後領取相關給付那我再跟您說看我看到數字事實上除了您剛剛講的通報問題以外跟我們的工時數也有關係對不對\n\n9\n00:02:55,175 --> 00:02:58,697\n2015年參議員上任前的2015年台灣人總工時是66億5804萬小時你知道2022年總工時是多少嗎\n\n10\n00:03:12,315 --> 00:03:38,063\n我告訴你好了80億9765萬小時啦所以我們的總工時其實正在不斷的上升那當然這也不是唯一指標啦可是我們如果再繼續看細部的就是說我們用人次除以工時的私人傷害頻率來看的話你知道馬政府上任前的2007年頻率是多少嗎\n\n11\n00:03:39,822 --> 00:03:54,561\n報告委員我先說明一下因為我們這幾年的工作人口其實是增加的所以我現在跟你講的是人質處理工時的私人傷害頻率嘛對我是說您剛剛這個總工時然後還有漲幅我的意思是說\n\n12\n00:03:56,253 --> 00:04:13,208\n我已經跟你講我要從這個鋪陳的是人次除以公時的這就平均數了嘛對不對的私人傷害頻率的話請問馬政府這個上任前2007年的頻率是多少你知道嗎我告訴你啦是2.33啦到2016年他卸任的時候是降到1.44\n\n13\n00:04:20,290 --> 00:04:36,172\n現在蔡英文總統是從2016年的1.44到2022年的1.56顯然我覺得私人傷害頻率的增加不管是從總數跟人次來看的話我覺得不能只推給通報\n\n14\n00:04:38,068 --> 00:04:52,264\n沒關係委員我覺得您這個數據給我們就來檢討看看說到底關聯性是怎樣我覺得這個我們就把它深究一下您覺得什麼補這個加強改進措施也就提供個書面資料給我\n\n15\n00:04:54,386 --> 00:05:07,736\n另外我還有就是覺得勞動部在關心職業安全的部分我覺得可以更專心一點你知道為什麼嗎因為我看到你的官網上職業安全的宣導專區你知道幾項宣導在上面嗎\n\n16\n00:05:10,950 --> 00:05:35,818\n就四項啦其中一項跟職業安全毫無關聯是經濟部投資台灣三大方案的延長三年圖卡當然我必須說啦這個投資這個延長這個宣傳政績很重要啦可是我覺得要放對地方吧而且重點是各項宣傳品的發佈日期從你官網來看的話2015年以後就再也沒有更新\n\n17\n00:05:36,858 --> 00:05:50,190\n所以我是這樣覺得啦就是說從我們的職業安全這一塊來講的話我覺得部里齁真的我覺得不管是宣導跟作為上都還是有更加努力的空間啦好我們會加強以上謝謝您\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t11354\t兩委員發言。主席有請部長。請許部長。\n16874\t36108\t羅文浩部長好我想接續剛剛楊瓊玉委員的一個提醒我看到我們的那個勞保的負債楊瓊玉委員的數據指出2023年是13兆然後但是我們現在勞保改革按大家心中說有政府不會倒他是提醒不要一直在講這句話對不對你認同嗎\n38982\t56160\t報告委員因為會講這句話是要讓勞工安心絕對不是騙數為什麼就是因為這是政府辦的保險這是社會保險國家的社會保險我為什麼跟你講尤其最近少講你知道嗎因為最近如果這個邏輯成立的話有政府台電也不會倒那不要漲電價了對不對\n57924\t80405\t所以有政府不會倒說真的是一個非常非常簡化的一個說法那勞保的問題還是要透過根本性的改革才有辦法去支撐下去否則那你照這個邏輯講的話電價真的也不用漲反正有政府不會倒我想請教部長您的報告裡面有關於說職業安全衛生的經濟我看到一個\n81523\t109449\t勞動部的報告說把死亡人數下降當作減災有成效的證明對不對那我想請教您其實不只是死亡啦包括死亡永久全失能永久部分失能跟暫時全失能的失能傷害次數是不是也應該作為職業安全衛生的改善指標呢是沒錯嘛那我想請教您那根據主計\n111210\t126525\t總處的統計數據從1998年到現在我們的私人傷害人次最高的三年是哪三年你知道嗎請委員指教我告訴你就是2020年、2021年跟2022年\n131348\t137276\t所以就是這連續3年分別高達12,010人、12,830人跟12,662人次那我想請教您為什麼會一直這樣子創新高呢\n148590\t171577\t報告委員因為我們那個災保法通過以後對失能者的一個照顧保護更周全這個有可能就是讓這些失能者願意來通報然後領取相關給付那我再跟您說看我看到數字事實上除了您剛剛講的通報問題以外跟我們的工時數也有關係對不對\n175175\t178697\t2015年參議員上任前的2015年台灣人總工時是66億5804萬小時你知道2022年總工時是多少嗎\n192315\t218063\t我告訴你好了80億9765萬小時啦所以我們的總工時其實正在不斷的上升那當然這也不是唯一指標啦可是我們如果再繼續看細部的就是說我們用人次除以工時的私人傷害頻率來看的話你知道馬政府上任前的2007年頻率是多少嗎\n219822\t234561\t報告委員我先說明一下因為我們這幾年的工作人口其實是增加的所以我現在跟你講的是人質處理工時的私人傷害頻率嘛對我是說您剛剛這個總工時然後還有漲幅我的意思是說\n236253\t253208\t我已經跟你講我要從這個鋪陳的是人次除以公時的這就平均數了嘛對不對的私人傷害頻率的話請問馬政府這個上任前2007年的頻率是多少你知道嗎我告訴你啦是2.33啦到2016年他卸任的時候是降到1.44\n260290\t276172\t現在蔡英文總統是從2016年的1.44到2022年的1.56顯然我覺得私人傷害頻率的增加不管是從總數跟人次來看的話我覺得不能只推給通報\n278068\t292264\t沒關係委員我覺得您這個數據給我們就來檢討看看說到底關聯性是怎樣我覺得這個我們就把它深究一下您覺得什麼補這個加強改進措施也就提供個書面資料給我\n294386\t307736\t另外我還有就是覺得勞動部在關心職業安全的部分我覺得可以更專心一點你知道為什麼嗎因為我看到你的官網上職業安全的宣導專區你知道幾項宣導在上面嗎\n310950\t335818\t就四項啦其中一項跟職業安全毫無關聯是經濟部投資台灣三大方案的延長三年圖卡當然我必須說啦這個投資這個延長這個宣傳政績很重要啦可是我覺得要放對地方吧而且重點是各項宣傳品的發佈日期從你官網來看的話2015年以後就再也沒有更新\n336858\t350190\t所以我是這樣覺得啦就是說從我們的職業安全這一塊來講的話我覺得部里齁真的我覺得不管是宣導跟作為上都還是有更加努力的空間啦好我們會加強以上謝謝您\n","txt":"兩委員發言。主席有請部長。請許部長。\n羅文浩部長好我想接續剛剛楊瓊玉委員的一個提醒我看到我們的那個勞保的負債楊瓊玉委員的數據指出2023年是13兆然後但是我們現在勞保改革按大家心中說有政府不會倒他是提醒不要一直在講這句話對不對你認同嗎\n報告委員因為會講這句話是要讓勞工安心絕對不是騙數為什麼就是因為這是政府辦的保險這是社會保險國家的社會保險我為什麼跟你講尤其最近少講你知道嗎因為最近如果這個邏輯成立的話有政府台電也不會倒那不要漲電價了對不對\n所以有政府不會倒說真的是一個非常非常簡化的一個說法那勞保的問題還是要透過根本性的改革才有辦法去支撐下去否則那你照這個邏輯講的話電價真的也不用漲反正有政府不會倒我想請教部長您的報告裡面有關於說職業安全衛生的經濟我看到一個\n勞動部的報告說把死亡人數下降當作減災有成效的證明對不對那我想請教您其實不只是死亡啦包括死亡永久全失能永久部分失能跟暫時全失能的失能傷害次數是不是也應該作為職業安全衛生的改善指標呢是沒錯嘛那我想請教您那根據主計\n總處的統計數據從1998年到現在我們的私人傷害人次最高的三年是哪三年你知道嗎請委員指教我告訴你就是2020年、2021年跟2022年\n所以就是這連續3年分別高達12,010人、12,830人跟12,662人次那我想請教您為什麼會一直這樣子創新高呢\n報告委員因為我們那個災保法通過以後對失能者的一個照顧保護更周全這個有可能就是讓這些失能者願意來通報然後領取相關給付那我再跟您說看我看到數字事實上除了您剛剛講的通報問題以外跟我們的工時數也有關係對不對\n2015年參議員上任前的2015年台灣人總工時是66億5804萬小時你知道2022年總工時是多少嗎\n我告訴你好了80億9765萬小時啦所以我們的總工時其實正在不斷的上升那當然這也不是唯一指標啦可是我們如果再繼續看細部的就是說我們用人次除以工時的私人傷害頻率來看的話你知道馬政府上任前的2007年頻率是多少嗎\n報告委員我先說明一下因為我們這幾年的工作人口其實是增加的所以我現在跟你講的是人質處理工時的私人傷害頻率嘛對我是說您剛剛這個總工時然後還有漲幅我的意思是說\n我已經跟你講我要從這個鋪陳的是人次除以公時的這就平均數了嘛對不對的私人傷害頻率的話請問馬政府這個上任前2007年的頻率是多少你知道嗎我告訴你啦是2.33啦到2016年他卸任的時候是降到1.44\n現在蔡英文總統是從2016年的1.44到2022年的1.56顯然我覺得私人傷害頻率的增加不管是從總數跟人次來看的話我覺得不能只推給通報\n沒關係委員我覺得您這個數據給我們就來檢討看看說到底關聯性是怎樣我覺得這個我們就把它深究一下您覺得什麼補這個加強改進措施也就提供個書面資料給我\n另外我還有就是覺得勞動部在關心職業安全的部分我覺得可以更專心一點你知道為什麼嗎因為我看到你的官網上職業安全的宣導專區你知道幾項宣導在上面嗎\n就四項啦其中一項跟職業安全毫無關聯是經濟部投資台灣三大方案的延長三年圖卡當然我必須說啦這個投資這個延長這個宣傳政績很重要啦可是我覺得要放對地方吧而且重點是各項宣傳品的發佈日期從你官網來看的話2015年以後就再也沒有更新\n所以我是這樣覺得啦就是說從我們的職業安全這一塊來講的話我覺得部里齁真的我覺得不管是宣導跟作為上都還是有更加努力的空間啦好我們會加強以上謝謝您\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:11.354\n兩委員發言。主席有請部長。請許部長。\n\n00:16.874 --> 00:36.108\n羅文浩部長好我想接續剛剛楊瓊玉委員的一個提醒我看到我們的那個勞保的負債楊瓊玉委員的數據指出2023年是13兆然後但是我們現在勞保改革按大家心中說有政府不會倒他是提醒不要一直在講這句話對不對你認同嗎\n\n00:38.982 --> 00:56.160\n報告委員因為會講這句話是要讓勞工安心絕對不是騙數為什麼就是因為這是政府辦的保險這是社會保險國家的社會保險我為什麼跟你講尤其最近少講你知道嗎因為最近如果這個邏輯成立的話有政府台電也不會倒那不要漲電價了對不對\n\n00:57.924 --> 01:20.405\n所以有政府不會倒說真的是一個非常非常簡化的一個說法那勞保的問題還是要透過根本性的改革才有辦法去支撐下去否則那你照這個邏輯講的話電價真的也不用漲反正有政府不會倒我想請教部長您的報告裡面有關於說職業安全衛生的經濟我看到一個\n\n01:21.523 --> 01:49.449\n勞動部的報告說把死亡人數下降當作減災有成效的證明對不對那我想請教您其實不只是死亡啦包括死亡永久全失能永久部分失能跟暫時全失能的失能傷害次數是不是也應該作為職業安全衛生的改善指標呢是沒錯嘛那我想請教您那根據主計\n\n01:51.210 --> 02:06.525\n總處的統計數據從1998年到現在我們的私人傷害人次最高的三年是哪三年你知道嗎請委員指教我告訴你就是2020年、2021年跟2022年\n\n02:11.348 --> 02:17.276\n所以就是這連續3年分別高達12,010人、12,830人跟12,662人次那我想請教您為什麼會一直這樣子創新高呢\n\n02:28.590 --> 02:51.577\n報告委員因為我們那個災保法通過以後對失能者的一個照顧保護更周全這個有可能就是讓這些失能者願意來通報然後領取相關給付那我再跟您說看我看到數字事實上除了您剛剛講的通報問題以外跟我們的工時數也有關係對不對\n\n02:55.175 --> 02:58.697\n2015年參議員上任前的2015年台灣人總工時是66億5804萬小時你知道2022年總工時是多少嗎\n\n03:12.315 --> 03:38.063\n我告訴你好了80億9765萬小時啦所以我們的總工時其實正在不斷的上升那當然這也不是唯一指標啦可是我們如果再繼續看細部的就是說我們用人次除以工時的私人傷害頻率來看的話你知道馬政府上任前的2007年頻率是多少嗎\n\n03:39.822 --> 03:54.561\n報告委員我先說明一下因為我們這幾年的工作人口其實是增加的所以我現在跟你講的是人質處理工時的私人傷害頻率嘛對我是說您剛剛這個總工時然後還有漲幅我的意思是說\n\n03:56.253 --> 04:13.208\n我已經跟你講我要從這個鋪陳的是人次除以公時的這就平均數了嘛對不對的私人傷害頻率的話請問馬政府這個上任前2007年的頻率是多少你知道嗎我告訴你啦是2.33啦到2016年他卸任的時候是降到1.44\n\n04:20.290 --> 04:36.172\n現在蔡英文總統是從2016年的1.44到2022年的1.56顯然我覺得私人傷害頻率的增加不管是從總數跟人次來看的話我覺得不能只推給通報\n\n04:38.068 --> 04:52.264\n沒關係委員我覺得您這個數據給我們就來檢討看看說到底關聯性是怎樣我覺得這個我們就把它深究一下您覺得什麼補這個加強改進措施也就提供個書面資料給我\n\n04:54.386 --> 05:07.736\n另外我還有就是覺得勞動部在關心職業安全的部分我覺得可以更專心一點你知道為什麼嗎因為我看到你的官網上職業安全的宣導專區你知道幾項宣導在上面嗎\n\n05:10.950 --> 05:35.818\n就四項啦其中一項跟職業安全毫無關聯是經濟部投資台灣三大方案的延長三年圖卡當然我必須說啦這個投資這個延長這個宣傳政績很重要啦可是我覺得要放對地方吧而且重點是各項宣傳品的發佈日期從你官網來看的話2015年以後就再也沒有更新\n\n05:36.858 --> 05:50.190\n所以我是這樣覺得啦就是說從我們的職業安全這一塊來講的話我覺得部里齁真的我覺得不管是宣導跟作為上都還是有更加努力的空間啦好我們會加強以上謝謝您\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":11.354,"text":"兩委員發言。主席有請部長。請許部長。"},{"start":16.874,"end":36.108,"text":"羅文浩部長好我想接續剛剛楊瓊玉委員的一個提醒我看到我們的那個勞保的負債楊瓊玉委員的數據指出2023年是13兆然後但是我們現在勞保改革按大家心中說有政府不會倒他是提醒不要一直在講這句話對不對你認同嗎"},{"start":38.982,"end":56.16,"text":"報告委員因為會講這句話是要讓勞工安心絕對不是騙數為什麼就是因為這是政府辦的保險這是社會保險國家的社會保險我為什麼跟你講尤其最近少講你知道嗎因為最近如果這個邏輯成立的話有政府台電也不會倒那不要漲電價了對不對"},{"start":57.924,"end":80.405,"text":"所以有政府不會倒說真的是一個非常非常簡化的一個說法那勞保的問題還是要透過根本性的改革才有辦法去支撐下去否則那你照這個邏輯講的話電價真的也不用漲反正有政府不會倒我想請教部長您的報告裡面有關於說職業安全衛生的經濟我看到一個"},{"start":81.523,"end":109.449,"text":"勞動部的報告說把死亡人數下降當作減災有成效的證明對不對那我想請教您其實不只是死亡啦包括死亡永久全失能永久部分失能跟暫時全失能的失能傷害次數是不是也應該作為職業安全衛生的改善指標呢是沒錯嘛那我想請教您那根據主計"},{"start":111.21,"end":126.525,"text":"總處的統計數據從1998年到現在我們的私人傷害人次最高的三年是哪三年你知道嗎請委員指教我告訴你就是2020年、2021年跟2022年"},{"start":131.348,"end":137.276,"text":"所以就是這連續3年分別高達12,010人、12,830人跟12,662人次那我想請教您為什麼會一直這樣子創新高呢"},{"start":148.59,"end":171.577,"text":"報告委員因為我們那個災保法通過以後對失能者的一個照顧保護更周全這個有可能就是讓這些失能者願意來通報然後領取相關給付那我再跟您說看我看到數字事實上除了您剛剛講的通報問題以外跟我們的工時數也有關係對不對"},{"start":175.175,"end":178.697,"text":"2015年參議員上任前的2015年台灣人總工時是66億5804萬小時你知道2022年總工時是多少嗎"},{"start":192.315,"end":218.063,"text":"我告訴你好了80億9765萬小時啦所以我們的總工時其實正在不斷的上升那當然這也不是唯一指標啦可是我們如果再繼續看細部的就是說我們用人次除以工時的私人傷害頻率來看的話你知道馬政府上任前的2007年頻率是多少嗎"},{"start":219.822,"end":234.561,"text":"報告委員我先說明一下因為我們這幾年的工作人口其實是增加的所以我現在跟你講的是人質處理工時的私人傷害頻率嘛對我是說您剛剛這個總工時然後還有漲幅我的意思是說"},{"start":236.253,"end":253.208,"text":"我已經跟你講我要從這個鋪陳的是人次除以公時的這就平均數了嘛對不對的私人傷害頻率的話請問馬政府這個上任前2007年的頻率是多少你知道嗎我告訴你啦是2.33啦到2016年他卸任的時候是降到1.44"},{"start":260.29,"end":276.172,"text":"現在蔡英文總統是從2016年的1.44到2022年的1.56顯然我覺得私人傷害頻率的增加不管是從總數跟人次來看的話我覺得不能只推給通報"},{"start":278.068,"end":292.264,"text":"沒關係委員我覺得您這個數據給我們就來檢討看看說到底關聯性是怎樣我覺得這個我們就把它深究一下您覺得什麼補這個加強改進措施也就提供個書面資料給我"},{"start":294.386,"end":307.736,"text":"另外我還有就是覺得勞動部在關心職業安全的部分我覺得可以更專心一點你知道為什麼嗎因為我看到你的官網上職業安全的宣導專區你知道幾項宣導在上面嗎"},{"start":310.95,"end":335.818,"text":"就四項啦其中一項跟職業安全毫無關聯是經濟部投資台灣三大方案的延長三年圖卡當然我必須說啦這個投資這個延長這個宣傳政績很重要啦可是我覺得要放對地方吧而且重點是各項宣傳品的發佈日期從你官網來看的話2015年以後就再也沒有更新"},{"start":336.858,"end":350.19,"text":"所以我是這樣覺得啦就是說從我們的職業安全這一塊來講的話我覺得部里齁真的我覺得不管是宣導跟作為上都還是有更加努力的空間啦好我們會加強以上謝謝您"}]}}}}