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\"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 203.061, \"end\": 203.462, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 203.462, \"end\": 203.782, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 203.782, \"end\": 204.222, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 204.222, \"end\": 205.003, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 205.003, \"end\": 205.243, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 205.243, \"end\": 205.643, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 205.643, \"end\": 206.164, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 206.164, \"end\": 206.704, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 206.704, \"end\": 207.685, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"罰\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 207.685, \"end\": 207.845, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 207.845, \"end\": 208.365, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 208.365, \"end\": 208.586, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 208.586, \"end\": 209.086, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 209.086, \"end\": 209.246, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 209.246, \"end\": 209.426, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 209.426, \"end\": 209.546, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 209.546, \"end\": 209.907, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 209.907, \"end\": 210.067, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 210.067, \"end\": 210.267, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 210.267, \"end\": 210.447, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 210.447, \"end\": 210.607, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 210.607, \"end\": 210.787, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 210.787, \"end\": 211.068, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 211.068, \"end\": 211.268, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 211.268, \"end\": 211.428, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 211.428, \"end\": 211.748, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 211.748, \"end\": 211.928, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 211.928, \"end\": 212.168, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 212.168, \"end\": 212.349, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 212.349, \"end\": 212.549, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 212.549, \"end\": 212.689, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 212.689, \"end\": 212.789, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 212.789, \"end\": 212.809, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 212.809, \"end\": 212.949, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"累\", \"start\": 212.949, \"end\": 213.129, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"犯\", \"start\": 213.129, \"end\": 213.309, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 213.309, \"end\": 213.389, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 213.389, \"end\": 213.53, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 213.53, \"end\": 213.79, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 213.79, \"end\": 213.81, \"score\": 0.594}]}, {\"start\": 214.27, \"end\": 221.44, \"text\": \"因為過去我們就看到很多的公司他其實怎麼樣他違法的嚴重程度其實你不一樣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 214.27, \"end\": 215.131, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 215.131, \"end\": 215.332, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 215.332, \"end\": 215.552, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 215.552, \"end\": 215.712, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 215.712, \"end\": 215.872, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 215.872, \"end\": 216.093, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 216.093, \"end\": 216.393, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 216.393, \"end\": 216.593, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 216.593, \"end\": 216.734, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 216.734, \"end\": 216.934, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 216.934, \"end\": 217.054, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 217.054, \"end\": 217.234, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 217.234, \"end\": 217.495, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 217.495, \"end\": 218.316, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 218.316, \"end\": 219.217, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 219.217, \"end\": 219.537, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 219.537, \"end\": 220.038, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 220.038, \"end\": 220.238, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 220.238, \"end\": 220.479, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 220.479, \"end\": 220.859, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 220.859, \"end\": 221.099, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 221.099, \"end\": 221.28, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 221.28, \"end\": 221.42, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 221.42, \"end\": 221.44, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}]}, {\"start\": 222.739, \"end\": 250.012, \"text\": \"那如果說針對不管是我們的職安法或說針對我們的性別平等法其實這都是現在大家越來越重視的但是我們要公布這所謂的這個黑名單其實某種程度上它也是一種示警的效果告訴大家說壞人越壞我們要讓他公布好人越好如果說你今天可以查詢到你上面沒有的話某種程度上你也是一個業者至親也是認為說業者是一個符合規範符合標準的部長你同意嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 222.739, \"end\": 223.259, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 223.259, \"end\": 223.479, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 223.479, \"end\": 224.48, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 224.48, \"end\": 224.6, \"score\": 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,820 --> 00:00:31,778\n主席謝謝麻煩請許部長請許部長紅委員好部長好部長過去有關違反勞基法、性別工作平等法等裁罰公告都是由地方的勞工行政主管機關自行建立違反法規的公告專區那後來民眾這是給讓事業單位可以有所警惕民眾可以公開查詢\n\n2\n00:00:32,498 --> 00:00:52,370\n那勞動部為了方便民眾來查詢所以說整合各地方機關的公告資料建立了違反勞動法令事業單位主管機關的這個查詢系統請教現在當初建設這個違反僱主系統的主要目的跟預期效果是什麼\n\n3\n00:00:57,582 --> 00:01:23,868\n讓就是關心你感覺部長跟這個系統沒有很熟有啦因為這是那時候也是委員要求我們把它建置起來是讓這個一般民眾如果要了解事業單位是不是有盡到法尊的責任是那可以透過這個勞動部的系統就可以來我今天如果說想面試一家公司我想了解一下公司到底他的過去的優不優良、優不優質有沒有違反相關的勞動基準法、工會法我可以上這個系統來去查詢嗎對不對對好\n\n4\n00:01:27,670 --> 00:01:47,180\n來我們有看到勞基法公會法如果有違反的話後面你都還有特別標註這所謂的罰還金額那但是現在依據本系統我們看到如果說違反這個勞工職災災害保險跟保護法或是勞工退休金條例也都有這個罰還的金額但是\n\n5\n00:01:50,722 --> 00:02:05,035\n現在依據目前的系統如果說違反職安法或是性別工作平等法以及就業服務法中高齡者高齡就業促進法職業安全衛生法全都沒有\n\n6\n00:02:07,673 --> 00:02:32,918\n這當中有什麼樣的一個落差為什麼我違反勞基法的時候你後面的法環就可以把它標上去但是違反性平法、就業服務法或者是這個高齡促進法以及職安法尤其這些重要的相關法令後面都沒有來做一個提示主要是這些相關的法令沒有法律授權所以我們沒有辦法公佈沒有辦法公佈這個就是要修法\n\n7\n00:02:33,871 --> 00:02:43,525\n要修法才能夠但是你相關的這些處罰的一個部分呢那你如果說違反這些的話那你後續怎麼做這些這些公司的這個處罰\n\n8\n00:02:45,903 --> 00:03:06,239\n處罰沒有問題只是說在揭示的部分揭示的部分現行的法律並沒有明定說可以揭示也沒有授權給相關的執法部長認不認為說這應該要去來做一個公開我是覺得可以啦但是我們整個來\n\n9\n00:03:07,869 --> 00:03:33,810\n我們其實有一些法案的有做盤點其實本席為什麼會提出這一點就是說這就是存在不同就是說當我們看到這一些他相關的這個違反的一個條例或是違反相關的一個這個行為的時候其實你能夠公開這相關的這個罰還的金額大小你就可以讓大家去知道是說他到底嚴重不嚴重或是說有沒有累犯的一個效果\n\n10\n00:03:34,270 --> 00:03:41,440\n因為過去我們就看到很多的公司他其實怎麼樣他違法的嚴重程度其實你不一樣\n\n11\n00:03:42,739 --> 00:04:10,012\n那如果說針對不管是我們的職安法或說針對我們的性別平等法其實這都是現在大家越來越重視的但是我們要公布這所謂的這個黑名單其實某種程度上它也是一種示警的效果告訴大家說壞人越壞我們要讓他公布好人越好如果說你今天可以查詢到你上面沒有的話某種程度上你也是一個業者至親也是認為說業者是一個符合規範符合標準的部長你同意嗎\n\n12\n00:04:10,632 --> 00:04:26,266\n同意部長所以我們現在就在講過去一直有承諾說應該要改善或說應該有一些這種職安法一直有這些慣犯來去做履罰不怕甚至把罰款當然是經營成本\n\n13\n00:04:27,403 --> 00:04:51,140\n那這些要怎麼樣補強我們有沒有建立譬如說持續犯這個不管是違反這個職安法或是違反這相關法令的這業者有所謂的這黑名單或是有所謂的這個比較市井的項目像那個職安法也就是那個重大職災地圖就會把它做一些標示然後那個如果是\n\n14\n00:04:51,578 --> 00:04:56,479\n那你列為主要對象是指地方政府他的自行列管還是勞動部這邊有做一個總和管理?\n\n15\n00:05:21,486 --> 00:05:31,984\n因為我們每年都會有專案的勞檢那就是針對高風險、高違規、高紫災的那像剛剛這些高違規就是被我們列為我們勞動部的一個那這樣的資料應不應該公布\n\n16\n00:05:37,499 --> 00:05:58,045\n高風險高指責因為本席現在講是說你既然已經有列這樣子一個重大訊息我也看到你今天的報告第5頁特別講說提升安全衛生以及公安的文化紮根第一點就是督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練那本席也認為啊如果說你要督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練其實要從誰下手\n\n17\n00:06:00,026 --> 00:06:18,938\n要從那些屢犯的人下手你應該是要針對那些屢犯的人他可能是列入黑名單他可能常常有違規違法你先落實去確認說他到底有沒有去基本的教育訓練以及他有沒有改善所以那這一些的黑名單或這些相關名單是不是也應該要公佈在網站上\n\n18\n00:06:21,331 --> 00:06:47,350\n或說要示警或說讓大家知道是說在這一些可以民眾可以查詢的檔因為我們每一次的檢查一定會公佈嘛那公佈的時候就是這裡面就看得到他是雷範嘛部長您之前所說每一次檢查有公佈但是本席有特別去查囉其實很多時候你都是只有透過機關去發布新聞稿而且通常都是重大的新聞事件\n\n19\n00:06:48,431 --> 00:07:02,442\n你沒有針對每一個你去做一個檢視的時候的那很有可能會發生什麼情況就是大家只知道說你的新聞稿或說大家有看到的時候才會注意但是你沒有一個地方是能夠讓大家去瀏覽或是review的\n\n20\n00:07:03,962 --> 00:07:28,585\n就是說這是不是應該要去來檢討或是說建議本集今天提出一個建議當然這可能會還有衍生其他的問題但我現在提出一個建議是說在針對這樣的一個系統裡面能夠更強化明確就是說如果有累犯或者是說有一些黑心的廠商黑心的企業持續違反相關的一個法令的時候應該要示警或說變成是一個黑名單\n\n21\n00:07:30,678 --> 00:07:46,398\n正能不能去做一個檢討或是說做一個討論我們來討論看看啦委員可能是說比如說他這一次又違規公佈阿也沒有辦法有一個標示說其實他已經是他已經累犯幾次甚至說累犯幾次或是說屢勸不聽或是說違反多少\n\n22\n00:07:47,566 --> 00:08:08,402\n違反次數我是覺得可以把它揭示出來違反次數可以把它揭露出來我們來討論一下看怎麼來一而再再而三針對某個地方違反次數把它給揭露出來讓國人或說讓求職者甚至說一般的民眾甚至我可能跟往來做生意的人可能也會覺得是說怎麼會有這樣子一個離譜的一個業者是不是多久能夠來做這樣的一個調整\n\n23\n00:08:13,319 --> 00:08:18,362\n五二零之前行不行我怕五二零之後我諮詢不到您了\n\n24\n00:08:40,694 --> 00:08:42,976\n三個月本期期待能夠真正落實,讓國人可以有更公開透明的資訊,可以有機可循。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6820\t31778\t主席謝謝麻煩請許部長請許部長紅委員好部長好部長過去有關違反勞基法、性別工作平等法等裁罰公告都是由地方的勞工行政主管機關自行建立違反法規的公告專區那後來民眾這是給讓事業單位可以有所警惕民眾可以公開查詢\n32498\t52370\t那勞動部為了方便民眾來查詢所以說整合各地方機關的公告資料建立了違反勞動法令事業單位主管機關的這個查詢系統請教現在當初建設這個違反僱主系統的主要目的跟預期效果是什麼\n57582\t83868\t讓就是關心你感覺部長跟這個系統沒有很熟有啦因為這是那時候也是委員要求我們把它建置起來是讓這個一般民眾如果要了解事業單位是不是有盡到法尊的責任是那可以透過這個勞動部的系統就可以來我今天如果說想面試一家公司我想了解一下公司到底他的過去的優不優良、優不優質有沒有違反相關的勞動基準法、工會法我可以上這個系統來去查詢嗎對不對對好\n87670\t107180\t來我們有看到勞基法公會法如果有違反的話後面你都還有特別標註這所謂的罰還金額那但是現在依據本系統我們看到如果說違反這個勞工職災災害保險跟保護法或是勞工退休金條例也都有這個罰還的金額但是\n110722\t125035\t現在依據目前的系統如果說違反職安法或是性別工作平等法以及就業服務法中高齡者高齡就業促進法職業安全衛生法全都沒有\n127673\t152918\t這當中有什麼樣的一個落差為什麼我違反勞基法的時候你後面的法環就可以把它標上去但是違反性平法、就業服務法或者是這個高齡促進法以及職安法尤其這些重要的相關法令後面都沒有來做一個提示主要是這些相關的法令沒有法律授權所以我們沒有辦法公佈沒有辦法公佈這個就是要修法\n153871\t163525\t要修法才能夠但是你相關的這些處罰的一個部分呢那你如果說違反這些的話那你後續怎麼做這些這些公司的這個處罰\n165903\t186239\t處罰沒有問題只是說在揭示的部分揭示的部分現行的法律並沒有明定說可以揭示也沒有授權給相關的執法部長認不認為說這應該要去來做一個公開我是覺得可以啦但是我們整個來\n187869\t213810\t我們其實有一些法案的有做盤點其實本席為什麼會提出這一點就是說這就是存在不同就是說當我們看到這一些他相關的這個違反的一個條例或是違反相關的一個這個行為的時候其實你能夠公開這相關的這個罰還的金額大小你就可以讓大家去知道是說他到底嚴重不嚴重或是說有沒有累犯的一個效果\n214270\t221440\t因為過去我們就看到很多的公司他其實怎麼樣他違法的嚴重程度其實你不一樣\n222739\t250012\t那如果說針對不管是我們的職安法或說針對我們的性別平等法其實這都是現在大家越來越重視的但是我們要公布這所謂的這個黑名單其實某種程度上它也是一種示警的效果告訴大家說壞人越壞我們要讓他公布好人越好如果說你今天可以查詢到你上面沒有的話某種程度上你也是一個業者至親也是認為說業者是一個符合規範符合標準的部長你同意嗎\n250632\t266266\t同意部長所以我們現在就在講過去一直有承諾說應該要改善或說應該有一些這種職安法一直有這些慣犯來去做履罰不怕甚至把罰款當然是經營成本\n267403\t291140\t那這些要怎麼樣補強我們有沒有建立譬如說持續犯這個不管是違反這個職安法或是違反這相關法令的這業者有所謂的這黑名單或是有所謂的這個比較市井的項目像那個職安法也就是那個重大職災地圖就會把它做一些標示然後那個如果是\n291578\t296479\t那你列為主要對象是指地方政府他的自行列管還是勞動部這邊有做一個總和管理?\n321486\t331984\t因為我們每年都會有專案的勞檢那就是針對高風險、高違規、高紫災的那像剛剛這些高違規就是被我們列為我們勞動部的一個那這樣的資料應不應該公布\n337499\t358045\t高風險 高指責因為本席現在講是說你既然已經有列這樣子一個重大訊息我也看到你今天的報告第5頁特別講說提升安全衛生以及公安的文化紮根第一點就是督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練那本席也認為啊如果說你要督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練其實要從誰下手\n360026\t378938\t要從那些屢犯的人下手你應該是要針對那些屢犯的人他可能是列入黑名單他可能常常有違規違法你先落實去確認說他到底有沒有去基本的教育訓練以及他有沒有改善所以那這一些的黑名單或這些相關名單是不是也應該要公佈在網站上\n381331\t407350\t或說要示警或說讓大家知道是說在這一些可以民眾可以查詢的檔因為我們每一次的檢查一定會公佈嘛那公佈的時候就是這裡面就看得到他是雷範嘛部長您之前所說每一次檢查有公佈但是本席有特別去查囉其實很多時候你都是只有透過機關去發布新聞稿而且通常都是重大的新聞事件\n408431\t422442\t你沒有針對每一個你去做一個檢視的時候的那很有可能會發生什麼情況就是大家只知道說你的新聞稿或說大家有看到的時候才會注意但是你沒有一個地方是能夠讓大家去瀏覽或是review的\n423962\t448585\t就是說這是不是應該要去來檢討或是說建議本集今天提出一個建議當然這可能會還有衍生其他的問題但我現在提出一個建議是說在針對這樣的一個系統裡面能夠更強化明確就是說如果有累犯或者是說有一些黑心的廠商黑心的企業持續違反相關的一個法令的時候應該要示警或說變成是一個黑名單\n450678\t466398\t正能不能去做一個檢討或是說做一個討論我們來討論看看啦委員可能是說比如說他這一次又違規公佈阿也沒有辦法有一個標示說其實他已經是他已經累犯幾次甚至說累犯幾次或是說屢勸不聽或是說違反多少\n467566\t488402\t違反次數我是覺得可以把它揭示出來違反次數可以把它揭露出來我們來討論一下看怎麼來一而再再而三針對某個地方違反次數把它給揭露出來讓國人或說讓求職者甚至說一般的民眾甚至我可能跟往來做生意的人可能也會覺得是說怎麼會有這樣子一個離譜的一個業者是不是多久能夠來做這樣的一個調整\n493319\t498362\t五二零之前行不行我怕五二零之後我諮詢不到您了\n520694\t522976\t三個月本期期待能夠真正落實,讓國人可以有更公開透明的資訊,可以有機可循。\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請許部長請許部長紅委員好部長好部長過去有關違反勞基法、性別工作平等法等裁罰公告都是由地方的勞工行政主管機關自行建立違反法規的公告專區那後來民眾這是給讓事業單位可以有所警惕民眾可以公開查詢\n那勞動部為了方便民眾來查詢所以說整合各地方機關的公告資料建立了違反勞動法令事業單位主管機關的這個查詢系統請教現在當初建設這個違反僱主系統的主要目的跟預期效果是什麼\n讓就是關心你感覺部長跟這個系統沒有很熟有啦因為這是那時候也是委員要求我們把它建置起來是讓這個一般民眾如果要了解事業單位是不是有盡到法尊的責任是那可以透過這個勞動部的系統就可以來我今天如果說想面試一家公司我想了解一下公司到底他的過去的優不優良、優不優質有沒有違反相關的勞動基準法、工會法我可以上這個系統來去查詢嗎對不對對好\n來我們有看到勞基法公會法如果有違反的話後面你都還有特別標註這所謂的罰還金額那但是現在依據本系統我們看到如果說違反這個勞工職災災害保險跟保護法或是勞工退休金條例也都有這個罰還的金額但是\n現在依據目前的系統如果說違反職安法或是性別工作平等法以及就業服務法中高齡者高齡就業促進法職業安全衛生法全都沒有\n這當中有什麼樣的一個落差為什麼我違反勞基法的時候你後面的法環就可以把它標上去但是違反性平法、就業服務法或者是這個高齡促進法以及職安法尤其這些重要的相關法令後面都沒有來做一個提示主要是這些相關的法令沒有法律授權所以我們沒有辦法公佈沒有辦法公佈這個就是要修法\n要修法才能夠但是你相關的這些處罰的一個部分呢那你如果說違反這些的話那你後續怎麼做這些這些公司的這個處罰\n處罰沒有問題只是說在揭示的部分揭示的部分現行的法律並沒有明定說可以揭示也沒有授權給相關的執法部長認不認為說這應該要去來做一個公開我是覺得可以啦但是我們整個來\n我們其實有一些法案的有做盤點其實本席為什麼會提出這一點就是說這就是存在不同就是說當我們看到這一些他相關的這個違反的一個條例或是違反相關的一個這個行為的時候其實你能夠公開這相關的這個罰還的金額大小你就可以讓大家去知道是說他到底嚴重不嚴重或是說有沒有累犯的一個效果\n因為過去我們就看到很多的公司他其實怎麼樣他違法的嚴重程度其實你不一樣\n那如果說針對不管是我們的職安法或說針對我們的性別平等法其實這都是現在大家越來越重視的但是我們要公布這所謂的這個黑名單其實某種程度上它也是一種示警的效果告訴大家說壞人越壞我們要讓他公布好人越好如果說你今天可以查詢到你上面沒有的話某種程度上你也是一個業者至親也是認為說業者是一個符合規範符合標準的部長你同意嗎\n同意部長所以我們現在就在講過去一直有承諾說應該要改善或說應該有一些這種職安法一直有這些慣犯來去做履罰不怕甚至把罰款當然是經營成本\n那這些要怎麼樣補強我們有沒有建立譬如說持續犯這個不管是違反這個職安法或是違反這相關法令的這業者有所謂的這黑名單或是有所謂的這個比較市井的項目像那個職安法也就是那個重大職災地圖就會把它做一些標示然後那個如果是\n那你列為主要對象是指地方政府他的自行列管還是勞動部這邊有做一個總和管理?\n因為我們每年都會有專案的勞檢那就是針對高風險、高違規、高紫災的那像剛剛這些高違規就是被我們列為我們勞動部的一個那這樣的資料應不應該公布\n高風險 高指責因為本席現在講是說你既然已經有列這樣子一個重大訊息我也看到你今天的報告第5頁特別講說提升安全衛生以及公安的文化紮根第一點就是督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練那本席也認為啊如果說你要督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練其實要從誰下手\n要從那些屢犯的人下手你應該是要針對那些屢犯的人他可能是列入黑名單他可能常常有違規違法你先落實去確認說他到底有沒有去基本的教育訓練以及他有沒有改善所以那這一些的黑名單或這些相關名單是不是也應該要公佈在網站上\n或說要示警或說讓大家知道是說在這一些可以民眾可以查詢的檔因為我們每一次的檢查一定會公佈嘛那公佈的時候就是這裡面就看得到他是雷範嘛部長您之前所說每一次檢查有公佈但是本席有特別去查囉其實很多時候你都是只有透過機關去發布新聞稿而且通常都是重大的新聞事件\n你沒有針對每一個你去做一個檢視的時候的那很有可能會發生什麼情況就是大家只知道說你的新聞稿或說大家有看到的時候才會注意但是你沒有一個地方是能夠讓大家去瀏覽或是review的\n就是說這是不是應該要去來檢討或是說建議本集今天提出一個建議當然這可能會還有衍生其他的問題但我現在提出一個建議是說在針對這樣的一個系統裡面能夠更強化明確就是說如果有累犯或者是說有一些黑心的廠商黑心的企業持續違反相關的一個法令的時候應該要示警或說變成是一個黑名單\n正能不能去做一個檢討或是說做一個討論我們來討論看看啦委員可能是說比如說他這一次又違規公佈阿也沒有辦法有一個標示說其實他已經是他已經累犯幾次甚至說累犯幾次或是說屢勸不聽或是說違反多少\n違反次數我是覺得可以把它揭示出來違反次數可以把它揭露出來我們來討論一下看怎麼來一而再再而三針對某個地方違反次數把它給揭露出來讓國人或說讓求職者甚至說一般的民眾甚至我可能跟往來做生意的人可能也會覺得是說怎麼會有這樣子一個離譜的一個業者是不是多久能夠來做這樣的一個調整\n五二零之前行不行我怕五二零之後我諮詢不到您了\n三個月本期期待能夠真正落實,讓國人可以有更公開透明的資訊,可以有機可循。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.820 --> 00:31.778\n主席謝謝麻煩請許部長請許部長紅委員好部長好部長過去有關違反勞基法、性別工作平等法等裁罰公告都是由地方的勞工行政主管機關自行建立違反法規的公告專區那後來民眾這是給讓事業單位可以有所警惕民眾可以公開查詢\n\n00:32.498 --> 00:52.370\n那勞動部為了方便民眾來查詢所以說整合各地方機關的公告資料建立了違反勞動法令事業單位主管機關的這個查詢系統請教現在當初建設這個違反僱主系統的主要目的跟預期效果是什麼\n\n00:57.582 --> 01:23.868\n讓就是關心你感覺部長跟這個系統沒有很熟有啦因為這是那時候也是委員要求我們把它建置起來是讓這個一般民眾如果要了解事業單位是不是有盡到法尊的責任是那可以透過這個勞動部的系統就可以來我今天如果說想面試一家公司我想了解一下公司到底他的過去的優不優良、優不優質有沒有違反相關的勞動基準法、工會法我可以上這個系統來去查詢嗎對不對對好\n\n01:27.670 --> 01:47.180\n來我們有看到勞基法公會法如果有違反的話後面你都還有特別標註這所謂的罰還金額那但是現在依據本系統我們看到如果說違反這個勞工職災災害保險跟保護法或是勞工退休金條例也都有這個罰還的金額但是\n\n01:50.722 --> 02:05.035\n現在依據目前的系統如果說違反職安法或是性別工作平等法以及就業服務法中高齡者高齡就業促進法職業安全衛生法全都沒有\n\n02:07.673 --> 02:32.918\n這當中有什麼樣的一個落差為什麼我違反勞基法的時候你後面的法環就可以把它標上去但是違反性平法、就業服務法或者是這個高齡促進法以及職安法尤其這些重要的相關法令後面都沒有來做一個提示主要是這些相關的法令沒有法律授權所以我們沒有辦法公佈沒有辦法公佈這個就是要修法\n\n02:33.871 --> 02:43.525\n要修法才能夠但是你相關的這些處罰的一個部分呢那你如果說違反這些的話那你後續怎麼做這些這些公司的這個處罰\n\n02:45.903 --> 03:06.239\n處罰沒有問題只是說在揭示的部分揭示的部分現行的法律並沒有明定說可以揭示也沒有授權給相關的執法部長認不認為說這應該要去來做一個公開我是覺得可以啦但是我們整個來\n\n03:07.869 --> 03:33.810\n我們其實有一些法案的有做盤點其實本席為什麼會提出這一點就是說這就是存在不同就是說當我們看到這一些他相關的這個違反的一個條例或是違反相關的一個這個行為的時候其實你能夠公開這相關的這個罰還的金額大小你就可以讓大家去知道是說他到底嚴重不嚴重或是說有沒有累犯的一個效果\n\n03:34.270 --> 03:41.440\n因為過去我們就看到很多的公司他其實怎麼樣他違法的嚴重程度其實你不一樣\n\n03:42.739 --> 04:10.012\n那如果說針對不管是我們的職安法或說針對我們的性別平等法其實這都是現在大家越來越重視的但是我們要公布這所謂的這個黑名單其實某種程度上它也是一種示警的效果告訴大家說壞人越壞我們要讓他公布好人越好如果說你今天可以查詢到你上面沒有的話某種程度上你也是一個業者至親也是認為說業者是一個符合規範符合標準的部長你同意嗎\n\n04:10.632 --> 04:26.266\n同意部長所以我們現在就在講過去一直有承諾說應該要改善或說應該有一些這種職安法一直有這些慣犯來去做履罰不怕甚至把罰款當然是經營成本\n\n04:27.403 --> 04:51.140\n那這些要怎麼樣補強我們有沒有建立譬如說持續犯這個不管是違反這個職安法或是違反這相關法令的這業者有所謂的這黑名單或是有所謂的這個比較市井的項目像那個職安法也就是那個重大職災地圖就會把它做一些標示然後那個如果是\n\n04:51.578 --> 04:56.479\n那你列為主要對象是指地方政府他的自行列管還是勞動部這邊有做一個總和管理?\n\n05:21.486 --> 05:31.984\n因為我們每年都會有專案的勞檢那就是針對高風險、高違規、高紫災的那像剛剛這些高違規就是被我們列為我們勞動部的一個那這樣的資料應不應該公布\n\n05:37.499 --> 05:58.045\n高風險高指責因為本席現在講是說你既然已經有列這樣子一個重大訊息我也看到你今天的報告第5頁特別講說提升安全衛生以及公安的文化紮根第一點就是督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練那本席也認為啊如果說你要督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練其實要從誰下手\n\n06:00.026 --> 06:18.938\n要從那些屢犯的人下手你應該是要針對那些屢犯的人他可能是列入黑名單他可能常常有違規違法你先落實去確認說他到底有沒有去基本的教育訓練以及他有沒有改善所以那這一些的黑名單或這些相關名單是不是也應該要公佈在網站上\n\n06:21.331 --> 06:47.350\n或說要示警或說讓大家知道是說在這一些可以民眾可以查詢的檔因為我們每一次的檢查一定會公佈嘛那公佈的時候就是這裡面就看得到他是雷範嘛部長您之前所說每一次檢查有公佈但是本席有特別去查囉其實很多時候你都是只有透過機關去發布新聞稿而且通常都是重大的新聞事件\n\n06:48.431 --> 07:02.442\n你沒有針對每一個你去做一個檢視的時候的那很有可能會發生什麼情況就是大家只知道說你的新聞稿或說大家有看到的時候才會注意但是你沒有一個地方是能夠讓大家去瀏覽或是review的\n\n07:03.962 --> 07:28.585\n就是說這是不是應該要去來檢討或是說建議本集今天提出一個建議當然這可能會還有衍生其他的問題但我現在提出一個建議是說在針對這樣的一個系統裡面能夠更強化明確就是說如果有累犯或者是說有一些黑心的廠商黑心的企業持續違反相關的一個法令的時候應該要示警或說變成是一個黑名單\n\n07:30.678 --> 07:46.398\n正能不能去做一個檢討或是說做一個討論我們來討論看看啦委員可能是說比如說他這一次又違規公佈阿也沒有辦法有一個標示說其實他已經是他已經累犯幾次甚至說累犯幾次或是說屢勸不聽或是說違反多少\n\n07:47.566 --> 08:08.402\n違反次數我是覺得可以把它揭示出來違反次數可以把它揭露出來我們來討論一下看怎麼來一而再再而三針對某個地方違反次數把它給揭露出來讓國人或說讓求職者甚至說一般的民眾甚至我可能跟往來做生意的人可能也會覺得是說怎麼會有這樣子一個離譜的一個業者是不是多久能夠來做這樣的一個調整\n\n08:13.319 --> 08:18.362\n五二零之前行不行我怕五二零之後我諮詢不到您了\n\n08:40.694 --> 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