{"id":150400,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150400","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b6674a41140eab1ec8506765f624e20d0f8ba9b0039caa7a602348c06207a9cc95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:53:52 - 13:04:36","影片長度":"00:10:44","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":644,"end_time":"2024-03-25T13:04:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T12:53:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1215,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時53分）謝謝主席。請法務部、內政部和數發部。"],["主席：請法務部、內政部和數發部。"],["洪委員孟楷：今天主席排了打詐這個案子非常好，國人最深惡痛絕的就是詐騙，我們常講魔高一尺，道要高一丈，什麼樣的詐騙都可以用，有沒有看到？最近搭上話題，詐騙集團還會用白沙屯媽祖免費貼圖來詐騙，一按下去之後，個資馬上就會被騙光，這是有心人士來做的，有沒有掌握這樣的訊息？警政署能不能先回復一下？因為現在粉紅超跑很夯，有沒有人按到這樣的訊息然後被詐騙，有沒有後續的報案？"],["黃副局長壬聰：跟委員報告，詐欺集團都會運用最新的時事來引誘，有關這個案子我們已經知道了，不過目前沒有收到民眾的報案。"],["洪委員孟楷：還沒有收到報案，但是已經知道這個案子？"],["黃副局長壬聰：我們已經有掌握了。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有錯，詐騙集團都會用最新的時事議題，像是2021年奧運，我們也說有搭上奧運這波熱潮；WBC的時候，有搭上中華隊的熱潮，現在又搭上粉紅超跑的熱潮，讓大家覺得詐騙集團真的一直在變化、一直在精進。因為有掌握了，我就先請教，因為本席選區就有民眾問萬一不小心點了怎麼辦？我們有任何機制、如何告訴民眾，如果真的不小心點了，有沒有自救措施？哪一個人可以回答我？數發部。"],["李次長懷仁：委員我先跟你報告，第一，我們當然是先跟民眾推廣要認明有認證的帳號，特別是很明顯的，例如白沙屯本來就有自己的帳號，它有它認證的帳號，非認證的帳號都不要亂點。第二，相關的資訊數位部有掌握，第一時間有跟LINE溝通，請它們下架這個貼圖。"],["洪委員孟楷：你說數位部怎麼樣？第一時間怎麼樣？"],["李次長懷仁：第一時間有掌握貼圖的狀況，也有跟LINE溝通，請它們下架假的貼圖。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在下架了嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：應該下架了。"],["洪委員孟楷：應該？能不能確認一下。現在本席要問的是，從以前到現在，我們都一直有這樣的疑問，這也是本席一直講說我們打詐1.5寫得沸沸揚揚，而且每一個部會，我今天看了各部會的資料，大家都寫得非常好，好像作文比賽一樣，但我現在想問，民眾也想知道，如果不小心點了，有沒有任何的補救機制或反應機制、申訴機制？哪一個部會？"],["李次長懷仁：補救機制或檢舉機制、申訴機制現在都有，立刻檢舉。"],["洪委員孟楷：在哪裡？"],["李次長懷仁：LINE上面右上角本來就有一個檢舉帳號。"],["洪委員孟楷：你這樣就是推給民眾，民眾就是自己去跟業者來申訴，是不是？"],["李次長懷仁：沒有，他也可以跟165，兩個都可以，我只是說最快的方式，他直接在頁面就可以檢舉。"],["洪委員孟楷：照這樣的講法，民眾的個資在按下去那一刻就已經被掌握了，有沒有任何的補救機制？"],["李次長懷仁：這個我自己走過一遍，理論上按下去個資不會拿到，只會拿到一個LINE帳號。"],["洪委員孟楷：只會拿到LINE帳號？"],["李次長懷仁：對，它是有個網頁叫你填入其他的個資。"],["洪委員孟楷：就是說如果民眾還沒有到填入個資的部分……"],["李次長懷仁：是沒有問題的。"],["洪委員孟楷：就沒有問題？"],["李次長懷仁：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：是這樣嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：這跟LINE有確認過嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：我自己走過一遍。"],["洪委員孟楷：國人最沒有辦法理解的就是打詐已經打那麼多次，到底現在整個訊息都是非常模糊，我覺得數發部應該要很務實的告訴國人要怎麼因應這樣的詐騙型態，我們還是要強調詐騙型態五花八門，會利用最新的時事，這也是我們說的魔高一尺，道應該高一丈。再請教內政部，今天報告第5頁講到詐欺被告人數，111年有一萬五千多人，112年有一萬八千多人，這些人數有沒有重複的？本席為什麼覺得這個問題很重要，因為一萬五千多人被告、一萬八千多人被告，到底有多少比例是重複的？如果有重複的就代表這群人就是詐騙集團持續被抓不怕，抓了又放、放了又抓，他是不是就持續在詐騙，代表罰不怕，罰不怕就兩個原因，一個就是這個市場太好做了，所以他們就有恃無恐。另外一個就是認為他們很囂張啊！2022年一萬五千多人被抓，但是抓了又放出去，2023年一萬八千多人，你們說查獲詐欺被告人數成長16%，好像很厲害，但實際上到底有多少人是重複的，有沒有這樣的數據？"],["黃副局長壬聰：報告委員，重複的一定是有，不過我們手上沒有很精確的去比對這個數字。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果連這個數據都沒有的話，我們怎麼樣再延伸？其實這就是問題，我覺得從過去到現在講詐騙講那麼久，我們一直講兩個部分，一個是嚴刑峻罰，在之前有沒有辦法用強力的法令嚇阻這些詐騙集團，不管是車手，不管是首腦，不管是任何詐騙集團的人，只要抓到，我們會罰，罰到你叫不敢！這當然要我們通力檢討，大家一起來配合，很多委員也在提案修法。","但另外一方面，如果你們沒有掌握的話，那這些人就是持續囂張，抓了又放、放了又抓，累的是我們基層的同仁。我就說我一直都是站在第一線的警務人員這邊，上禮拜的警友民防餐會，都還有所長、分局長到現場重複在講大家不要被詐騙，都還在宣導165反詐騙。我們同仁每一次遇到這種餐會，都還在宣導，但是怎麼樣把這一批人從源頭管理？你都已經知道有一萬五千多人、一萬八千多人，那重複的人在哪裡？有沒有辦法針對這個部分更加強？我覺得這才是重點，不要抓了又放、放了又抓。","最後，我想請教數發部。本席一直講源頭管理很重要，個資不要外洩，數發部今天的資料第三頁「辦理行政檢查作業」，說針對重大個資外洩的業者加強行政檢查。請問過去兩年多檢查了幾家？"],["李次長懷仁：跟委員報告，我們成立還不到兩年，數發部成立才一年多。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，一年半快兩年的時間，檢查了幾家？"],["李次長懷仁：檢查的部分，我們做了24家。"],["洪委員孟楷：24家。"],["李次長懷仁：但是有28家次，有的有作2次以上。"],["洪委員孟楷：我不管是24家還是28次，你平均一個月2次。你檢查的是哪一些啊？從過去到現在國人對於數發部最期待的就是要加強個資保護的檢查。"],["李次長懷仁：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：就應該是所有只要有蒐集個資的公司，你把它列出來各行業別前三名，你們重點先去稽查，但是到目前為止，成立了快兩年的時間，才做了28次行政檢查，平均一個月2次左右，無怪乎人家會覺得數發部真的在個資保管或源頭管理都沒有辦法盡責啊！"],["李次長懷仁：委員，是不是讓我說明一下？"],["洪委員孟楷：不是嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：委員，是不是讓我說明一下？"],["洪委員孟楷：你覺得28次夠嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：委員，是不是讓我說明一下？"],["洪委員孟楷：沒關係，你覺得28次夠嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：委員，有個前提先讓我說明一下。我們沒有管理到各行各業的個資，這是第一件，我們針對的是電商的部分。"],["洪委員孟楷：你們針對電商沒有錯，本席一直強調數發部的功能是什麼？每一次只要遇到，除了要去處理以外，更重要的是你們也要維護、檢視資安相關的部分嘛！不然也不會有什麼影城的app突然被駭客入侵之後，50萬筆個資就被人家盜用。"],["李次長懷仁：跟委員報告……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席一直強調這50萬筆……"],["李次長懷仁：這有分工……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以這是誰的責任？"],["李次長懷仁：如果是影城，會是文化部的責任，我們的資安院會在他們發動的時候，配合去檢查，所以不會算在我們這邊。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，本席沒有辦法接受。所以你們主動稽查的部分是……"],["李次長懷仁：我們主動是針對我們主管的行業。"],["洪委員孟楷：主動稽查的部分……"],["李次長懷仁：我們主管的職業。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是重點在於數發部的職權內容，本席一而再、再而三強調，你們應該要主動積極針對各行業，至少掌握個資的單位……"],["李次長懷仁：我們沒有法律的權限，跟委員報告，我們沒有法律的權限可以主動稽查各行業。"],["洪委員孟楷：你們可以邀請其他部門配合共同去辦理。"],["李次長懷仁：所以其他部會一發動，我們都去！"],["洪委員孟楷：你這樣還是沒有積極，你還是可以要求其他部門共同去辦。"],["李次長懷仁：我也沒有權限要求其他部會。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是你沒有權限的問題，這是做不做的問題。"],["李次長懷仁：我們都很願意積極做，這都沒有問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，可是本席沒有看到你們積極作為啊！"],["李次長懷仁：我們會強化。"],["洪委員孟楷：說實在話，國人也沒有看到數發部的積極作為。其實最重點在於什麼？重點在於源頭如果沒有管理，個資沒有辦法控管，各行各業的企業到底有沒有做好資安把關，只要個資一漏出去，就很有可能被詐騙集團使用，而詐騙集團來詐騙，其實就是因為它掌握了個資，這才是重點！"],["主席：洪委員時間到了。"],["李次長懷仁：委員講的，我們都很支持，但是分工上……"],["洪委員孟楷：既然支持，就請要有積極的作為！"],["李次長懷仁：我們會請各部會幫忙。"],["主席：請資料後補。現在請羅委員智強發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":298,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-5","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","顏寬恒","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","謝衣鳯","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra 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\"但是我現在想問民眾也想知道那如果說不小心點了有沒有任何的補救機制或者是反應機制、申訴機制哪一個部會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 165.117, \"end\": 165.237, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 165.237, \"end\": 165.357, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 165.357, \"end\": 165.498, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 165.498, \"end\": 165.718, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 165.718, \"end\": 166.379, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 166.379, \"end\": 166.739, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 166.739, \"end\": 166.839, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 166.839, \"end\": 167.059, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 167.059, \"end\": 167.2, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 167.2, \"end\": 167.54, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 167.54, \"end\": 167.66, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 167.66, \"end\": 167.76, 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\"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 642.544, \"end\": 642.564, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,329 --> 00:00:28,120\n謝謝主席我們請法務部、內政部跟數位發展部法務部、內政部、數位發展部來謝謝喔我想今天主席排的這個案子非常的好打詐國人最生物痛絕就是詐騙那我們先看喔我們常常講是說道高磨高一尺道要高一丈什麼樣的詐騙都可以用有沒有看到最近\n\n2\n00:00:29,366 --> 00:00:57,271\n居然搭上話題詐騙集團他們還會用白沙屯媽祖免費貼圖來詐騙一按下去之後馬上就會各司就會被騙光了那這有心人士來做有沒有掌握這樣的一個訊息警政署能不能先回覆一下內政部有沒有掌握現在因為很夯嘛粉紅超跑那有沒有人按到這樣的一個訊息然後被詐騙或所有後續的一個報案\n\n3\n00:00:59,171 --> 00:01:27,074\n跟委員報告這個詐欺集團都會運用最新的一個時事來引誘那這個有關這個案子我們已經知道了不過目前還沒有收到民眾的報案還沒有收到報案但是知道這個案子我們已經有掌握了好沒有錯詐騙集團都會用最新的時事議題不管那個時候2021年的時候奧運我們也講就是有搭上奧運這一波熱潮WBC的時候有搭上中華隊的熱潮現在粉紅超跑又搭上粉紅超跑的熱潮\n\n4\n00:01:28,014 --> 00:01:53,653\n讓大家就覺得說詐騙集團真的是變化一直在變化一直在精進啊那我們這樣有掌握了我想先請教因為本席的選區就有民眾就有問說那如果說真的不小心點了怎麼辦我們有任何機制如果告訴民眾如果說真的不小心點了有沒有自救措施來哪一個人可以回答我不管是速發部速發部\n\n5\n00:01:55,714 --> 00:02:23,544\n委員我先跟你們報告第一個這個我們當然是先這個跟民眾推廣他還是要認明這個有認證的帳號特別是這種很明顯的是比如說白沙頓他本來就有他自己的帳號他有他認證的帳號這個非認證的帳號的東西就不要亂點第二個是相關的資訊數位部這邊有掌握第一時間有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個事情你說數位部怎麼樣第一時間數位部也有掌握這個貼圖的狀況也有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個假的貼圖那現在下架了嗎應該是下架了應該\n\n6\n00:02:25,270 --> 00:02:43,978\n能不能確認一下來但是現在本席要問的是那如果說從以前到現在我們都一直有這樣子的一個疑問這也是本席一直在講說我們數打詐1.5寫得沸沸揚揚而且每一個部會我今天看了各部會的一個資料大家都寫得非常好像在作文比賽一樣\n\n7\n00:02:45,117 --> 00:02:56,450\n但是我現在想問民眾也想知道那如果說不小心點了有沒有任何的補救機制或者是反應機制、申訴機制哪一個部會\n\n8\n00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:25,787\n委員我先說明,申訴這個補救機制或檢舉機制、申訴機制現在上面都有,立刻檢舉在哪裡?LINE上面右上角本來就有一個檢舉帳號你這樣就是推給民眾,民眾就是自己去跟業者來申訴,是不是?沒有,他也可以跟165,兩個都可以,我只是說最快的方式他直接在那個頁面就可以檢舉可以檢舉嘛,但我現在問的是說民眾的個資已經被,如果說照這樣子的講法是民眾個資在按下去的那一刻就已經被\n\n9\n00:03:26,909 --> 00:03:40,724\n被掌握了那有沒有任何的補救機制我自己走過一遍他理論上按下去個資不會拿到他只會拿到你的LINE帳號那你只會拿到LINE帳號對那後續怎麼他是有一個網頁要叫你填入其他的個資\n\n10\n00:03:42,270 --> 00:04:04,593\n所以就是變成是說只要民眾還沒有到填入各自的部分是沒有問題的就沒有問題對是這樣嗎是這是跟賴這邊有確認過嗎我自己走過一遍你走現在國人最沒有辦法理解的就是說已經打詐打那麼多次到底現在整個的一個訊息都是非常的模糊\n\n11\n00:04:05,214 --> 00:04:05,655\n我再請教一下內政部\n\n12\n00:04:24,195 --> 00:04:35,085\n今天有特別的報告有講是說在第5月你們講說詐欺被告人數111年有15000多人112年有18000多人這一些人數有沒有重複的?本席為什麼覺得這個問題很重要?因為\n\n13\n00:04:50,387 --> 00:05:01,566\n一萬五千多人被告一萬八千多人被告那到底有多少比例是重複的如果說有重複的就代表是說這一群人就是詐騙集團就持續他被抓了不怕\n\n14\n00:05:02,802 --> 00:05:22,194\n抓了又放放了又抓他是不是就持續的在做詐騙那代表他罰不怕那罰不怕就兩個原因一個就是說這個市場真的太好做了所以他們就有恃無恐嘛那另外一個部分就認為是說他們很囂張啊他2022年一萬五千多人被抓查獲但是\n\n15\n00:05:22,754 --> 00:05:35,076\n他抓了又放出去2023年18000多人你們講是說查獲詐欺被告人數成長16%好像很厲害但實際上這到底有多少人是重複的有沒有這樣的一個數據\n\n16\n00:05:37,421 --> 00:05:51,578\n包委員,這個重複的一定是有啦,不過我們手上是沒有這個很精確的去比對這個數字。那如果說連這個數據都沒有的話,我們怎麼樣再延伸?其實這就是問題。我覺得過去到現在我們講詐騙講了那麼久。\n\n17\n00:05:53,800 --> 00:06:10,112\n我們就一直講是說兩個部分一個是嚴峻禁法法令在之前有沒有辦法用強力的法令去讓嚇阻這些詐騙集團不管是車手不管是首腦不管是任何詐騙集團的人只要抓到我們會罰到你叫不敢\n\n18\n00:06:11,347 --> 00:06:23,886\n這當然我們通力檢討我們大家一起來配合我們很多委員也在做提案修法但另外一方面是說如果說你們沒有掌握的話那這一些人就是持續囂張啊抓了又放放了又抓啊那不是累的是我們基層的同仁\n\n19\n00:06:25,066 --> 00:06:46,777\n我就講說我都是一直站在我們第一線的警務人員喔我都講是說這上禮拜我們僅有在民防的這個參會都還有所長都還有分局長到現場都還是重複在講說大家要不要被詐騙啊165反詐騙都還是宣導我們同仁每一次遇到這種參會都還是宣導但是源頭管理\n\n20\n00:06:47,617 --> 00:06:59,669\n你怎麼樣去把這一批人你都已經知道有一萬五千多人一萬八千多人那重複的人在哪裡有沒有辦法針對這個部分去做一個更加強我覺得這才是重點不要抓了又放放了又抓\n\n21\n00:07:02,385 --> 00:07:21,528\n來最後我想請教一下那個速發部速發部你今天的第三點的資料本席也一直提講源頭管理很重要各資不要外洩你第三頁的資料辦理行政檢查作業講說重大各資外洩的業者加強行政檢查\n\n22\n00:07:23,667 --> 00:07:46,804\n過去兩年多檢查了幾家?跟委員報告我們成立還不到兩年,我們一年多一年多檢查了幾家?一年半快兩年的時間檢查了幾家?檢查的部分我們做了24家但是28家次有的有兩次以上不管24家還是28次啊那你平均一個月兩次啊\n\n23\n00:07:47,998 --> 00:08:07,219\n我們的能量有你檢查是哪一些啊我們都講是說過去到現在國人對於速發布最期待的就是你要加強這個個資的保護的一個檢查他就應該是說所有只要有收集個資的公司你把它列出來各行業別前三名你們正點先去稽查\n\n24\n00:08:07,959 --> 00:08:25,623\n但是你到目前為止成立了快兩年的時間你才做了28次的行政檢查平均一個月兩次左右那無怪乎人家會覺得是說你速發部真的在個資保管或是源頭管理這邊都沒有辦法做一個盡責啊是不是讓委員讓我說明一下不是嗎你覺得28次夠嗎\n\n25\n00:08:28,069 --> 00:08:47,312\n委員是不是讓我說明一下沒有關係你覺得28次夠嗎委員先生有個前提先讓我說明一下這個我們沒有管理到各行各業的個資這就是第一件事情我們針對是電商的部分你們接受電商沒有錯但是就是每一次只要遇到有本席一直強調速發部的功能是什麼除了\n\n26\n00:08:47,933 --> 00:09:14,133\n除了要去做一個處理以外更重要是你們也要去維護相關去檢視人家的資安的部分嘛不然也不會有那種什麼隱成的APP突然被人家駭客入侵之後然後50萬筆的個資就被人家盜用本期一直強調是說這50萬筆的所以說這是誰的責任如果是隱成它會是文化部的責任我們的資安院會在他們發動的時候配合去檢查所以不會算在我們這邊\n\n27\n00:09:15,725 --> 00:09:17,986\n所以其他部會一發動我們都去\n\n28\n00:09:44,670 --> 00:10:11,147\n你這樣你還是沒有積極你還是可以要求其他部門共同去辦理我也沒有權限要求其他部門去這不是你沒有權限的問題這是做不做的問題我們都很願意積極做這個都沒有問題市長對不對市長本席沒有看到你們積極作為我說實在話國人也沒有看到速發部的積極作為其實最重點在於是什麼重點在於是源頭如果沒有管理你各自沒有辦法去做一個控管\n\n29\n00:10:11,727 --> 00:10:12,348\n主席\n\n30\n00:10:42,182 --> 00:10:42,564\n下一個質詢請羅志強羅委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n329\t28120\t謝謝主席我們請法務部、內政部跟數位發展部法務部、內政部、數位發展部來 謝謝喔我想今天主席排的這個案子非常的好打詐國人最生物痛絕就是詐騙那我們先看喔我們常常講是說道高磨高一尺道要高一丈什麼樣的詐騙都可以用有沒有看到最近\n29366\t57271\t居然搭上話題詐騙集團他們還會用白沙屯媽祖免費貼圖來詐騙一按下去之後馬上就會各司就會被騙光了那這有心人士來做有沒有掌握這樣的一個訊息警政署能不能先回覆一下內政部有沒有掌握現在因為很夯嘛粉紅超跑那有沒有人按到這樣的一個訊息然後被詐騙或所有後續的一個報案\n59171\t87074\t跟委員報告這個詐欺集團都會運用最新的一個時事來引誘那這個有關這個案子我們已經知道了不過目前還沒有收到民眾的報案還沒有收到報案但是知道這個案子我們已經有掌握了好沒有錯詐騙集團都會用最新的時事議題不管那個時候2021年的時候奧運我們也講就是有搭上奧運這一波熱潮WBC的時候有搭上中華隊的熱潮現在粉紅超跑又搭上粉紅超跑的熱潮\n88014\t113653\t讓大家就覺得說詐騙集團真的是變化一直在變化一直在精進啊那我們這樣有掌握了我想先請教因為本席的選區就有民眾就有問說那如果說真的不小心點了怎麼辦我們有任何機制如果告訴民眾如果說真的不小心點了有沒有自救措施來哪一個人可以回答我不管是速發部速發部\n115714\t143544\t委員我先跟你們報告第一個這個我們當然是先這個跟民眾推廣他還是要認明這個有認證的帳號特別是這種很明顯的是比如說白沙頓他本來就有他自己的帳號他有他認證的帳號這個非認證的帳號的東西就不要亂點第二個是相關的資訊數位部這邊有掌握第一時間有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個事情你說數位部怎麼樣第一時間數位部也有掌握這個貼圖的狀況也有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個假的貼圖那現在下架了嗎應該是下架了應該\n145270\t163978\t能不能確認一下來但是現在本席要問的是那如果說從以前到現在我們都一直有這樣子的一個疑問這也是本席一直在講說我們數打詐1.5寫得沸沸揚揚而且每一個部會我今天看了各部會的一個資料大家都寫得非常好像在作文比賽一樣\n165117\t176450\t但是我現在想問民眾也想知道那如果說不小心點了有沒有任何的補救機制或者是反應機制、申訴機制哪一個部會\n178240\t205787\t委員我先說明,申訴這個補救機制或檢舉機制、申訴機制現在上面都有,立刻檢舉在哪裡?LINE上面右上角本來就有一個檢舉帳號你這樣就是推給民眾,民眾就是自己去跟業者來申訴,是不是?沒有,他也可以跟165,兩個都可以,我只是說最快的方式他直接在那個頁面就可以檢舉可以檢舉嘛,但我現在問的是說民眾的個資已經被,如果說照這樣子的講法是民眾個資在按下去的那一刻就已經被\n206909\t220724\t被掌握了那有沒有任何的補救機制我自己走過一遍他理論上按下去個資不會拿到他只會拿到你的LINE帳號那你只會拿到LINE帳號對那後續怎麼他是有一個網頁要叫你填入其他的個資\n222270\t244593\t所以就是變成是說只要民眾還沒有到填入各自的部分是沒有問題的就沒有問題對是這樣嗎是這是跟賴這邊有確認過嗎我自己走過一遍你走現在國人最沒有辦法理解的就是說已經打詐打那麼多次到底現在整個的一個訊息都是非常的模糊\n245214\t245655\t我再請教一下內政部\n264195\t275085\t今天有特別的報告有講是說在第5月你們講說詐欺被告人數111年有15000多人112年有18000多人這一些人數有沒有重複的?本席為什麼覺得這個問題很重要?因為\n290387\t301566\t一萬五千多人被告一萬八千多人被告那到底有多少比例是重複的如果說有重複的就代表是說這一群人就是詐騙集團就持續他被抓了不怕\n302802\t322194\t抓了又放放了又抓他是不是就持續的在做詐騙那代表他罰不怕那罰不怕就兩個原因一個就是說這個市場真的太好做了所以他們就有恃無恐嘛那另外一個部分就認為是說他們很囂張啊他2022年一萬五千多人被抓查獲但是\n322754\t335076\t他抓了又放出去2023年18000多人你們講是說查獲詐欺被告人數成長16%好像很厲害但實際上這到底有多少人是重複的有沒有這樣的一個數據\n337421\t351578\t包委員,這個重複的一定是有啦,不過我們手上是沒有這個很精確的去比對這個數字。那如果說連這個數據都沒有的話,我們怎麼樣再延伸?其實這就是問題。我覺得過去到現在我們講詐騙講了那麼久。\n353800\t370112\t我們就一直講是說兩個部分一個是嚴峻禁法法令在之前有沒有辦法用強力的法令去讓嚇阻這些詐騙集團不管是車手不管是首腦不管是任何詐騙集團的人只要抓到我們會罰到你叫不敢\n371347\t383886\t這當然我們通力檢討我們大家一起來配合我們很多委員也在做提案修法但另外一方面是說如果說你們沒有掌握的話那這一些人就是持續囂張啊抓了又放放了又抓啊那不是累的是我們基層的同仁\n385066\t406777\t我就講說我都是一直站在我們第一線的警務人員喔我都講是說這上禮拜我們僅有在民防的這個參會都還有所長都還有分局長到現場都還是重複在講說大家要不要被詐騙啊165反詐騙都還是宣導我們同仁每一次遇到這種參會都還是宣導但是源頭管理\n407617\t419669\t你怎麼樣去把這一批人你都已經知道有一萬五千多人一萬八千多人那重複的人在哪裡有沒有辦法針對這個部分去做一個更加強我覺得這才是重點不要抓了又放放了又抓\n422385\t441528\t來最後我想請教一下那個速發部速發部你今天的第三點的資料本席也一直提講源頭管理很重要各資不要外洩你第三頁的資料辦理行政檢查作業講說重大各資外洩的業者加強行政檢查\n443667\t466804\t過去兩年多檢查了幾家?跟委員報告我們成立還不到兩年,我們一年多一年多檢查了幾家?一年半快兩年的時間檢查了幾家?檢查的部分我們做了24家但是28家次有的有兩次以上不管24家還是28次啊那你平均一個月兩次啊\n467998\t487219\t我們的能量有你檢查是哪一些啊我們都講是說過去到現在國人對於速發布最期待的就是你要加強這個個資的保護的一個檢查他就應該是說所有只要有收集個資的公司你把它列出來各行業別前三名你們正點先去稽查\n487959\t505623\t但是你到目前為止成立了快兩年的時間你才做了28次的行政檢查平均一個月兩次左右那無怪乎人家會覺得是說你速發部真的在個資保管或是源頭管理這邊都沒有辦法做一個盡責啊是不是讓委員讓我說明一下不是嗎你覺得28次夠嗎\n508069\t527312\t委員是不是讓我說明一下沒有關係你覺得28次夠嗎委員先生有個前提先讓我說明一下這個我們沒有管理到各行各業的個資這就是第一件事情我們針對是電商的部分你們接受電商沒有錯但是就是每一次只要遇到有本席一直強調速發部的功能是什麼除了\n527933\t554133\t除了要去做一個處理以外更重要是你們也要去維護相關去檢視人家的資安的部分嘛不然也不會有那種什麼隱成的APP突然被人家駭客入侵之後然後50萬筆的個資就被人家盜用本期一直強調是說這50萬筆的所以說這是誰的責任如果是隱成它會是文化部的責任我們的資安院會在他們發動的時候配合去檢查所以不會算在我們這邊\n555725\t557986\t所以其他部會一發動我們都去\n584670\t611147\t你這樣你還是沒有積極你還是可以要求其他部門共同去辦理我也沒有權限要求其他部門去這不是你沒有權限的問題這是做不做的問題我們都很願意積極做這個都沒有問題市長對不對市長本席沒有看到你們積極作為我說實在話國人也沒有看到速發部的積極作為其實最重點在於是什麼重點在於是源頭如果沒有管理你各自沒有辦法去做一個控管\n611727\t612348\t主席\n642182\t642564\t下一個質詢請羅志強羅委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請法務部、內政部跟數位發展部法務部、內政部、數位發展部來 謝謝喔我想今天主席排的這個案子非常的好打詐國人最生物痛絕就是詐騙那我們先看喔我們常常講是說道高磨高一尺道要高一丈什麼樣的詐騙都可以用有沒有看到最近\n居然搭上話題詐騙集團他們還會用白沙屯媽祖免費貼圖來詐騙一按下去之後馬上就會各司就會被騙光了那這有心人士來做有沒有掌握這樣的一個訊息警政署能不能先回覆一下內政部有沒有掌握現在因為很夯嘛粉紅超跑那有沒有人按到這樣的一個訊息然後被詐騙或所有後續的一個報案\n跟委員報告這個詐欺集團都會運用最新的一個時事來引誘那這個有關這個案子我們已經知道了不過目前還沒有收到民眾的報案還沒有收到報案但是知道這個案子我們已經有掌握了好沒有錯詐騙集團都會用最新的時事議題不管那個時候2021年的時候奧運我們也講就是有搭上奧運這一波熱潮WBC的時候有搭上中華隊的熱潮現在粉紅超跑又搭上粉紅超跑的熱潮\n讓大家就覺得說詐騙集團真的是變化一直在變化一直在精進啊那我們這樣有掌握了我想先請教因為本席的選區就有民眾就有問說那如果說真的不小心點了怎麼辦我們有任何機制如果告訴民眾如果說真的不小心點了有沒有自救措施來哪一個人可以回答我不管是速發部速發部\n委員我先跟你們報告第一個這個我們當然是先這個跟民眾推廣他還是要認明這個有認證的帳號特別是這種很明顯的是比如說白沙頓他本來就有他自己的帳號他有他認證的帳號這個非認證的帳號的東西就不要亂點第二個是相關的資訊數位部這邊有掌握第一時間有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個事情你說數位部怎麼樣第一時間數位部也有掌握這個貼圖的狀況也有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個假的貼圖那現在下架了嗎應該是下架了應該\n能不能確認一下來但是現在本席要問的是那如果說從以前到現在我們都一直有這樣子的一個疑問這也是本席一直在講說我們數打詐1.5寫得沸沸揚揚而且每一個部會我今天看了各部會的一個資料大家都寫得非常好像在作文比賽一樣\n但是我現在想問民眾也想知道那如果說不小心點了有沒有任何的補救機制或者是反應機制、申訴機制哪一個部會\n委員我先說明,申訴這個補救機制或檢舉機制、申訴機制現在上面都有,立刻檢舉在哪裡?LINE上面右上角本來就有一個檢舉帳號你這樣就是推給民眾,民眾就是自己去跟業者來申訴,是不是?沒有,他也可以跟165,兩個都可以,我只是說最快的方式他直接在那個頁面就可以檢舉可以檢舉嘛,但我現在問的是說民眾的個資已經被,如果說照這樣子的講法是民眾個資在按下去的那一刻就已經被\n被掌握了那有沒有任何的補救機制我自己走過一遍他理論上按下去個資不會拿到他只會拿到你的LINE帳號那你只會拿到LINE帳號對那後續怎麼他是有一個網頁要叫你填入其他的個資\n所以就是變成是說只要民眾還沒有到填入各自的部分是沒有問題的就沒有問題對是這樣嗎是這是跟賴這邊有確認過嗎我自己走過一遍你走現在國人最沒有辦法理解的就是說已經打詐打那麼多次到底現在整個的一個訊息都是非常的模糊\n我再請教一下內政部\n今天有特別的報告有講是說在第5月你們講說詐欺被告人數111年有15000多人112年有18000多人這一些人數有沒有重複的?本席為什麼覺得這個問題很重要?因為\n一萬五千多人被告一萬八千多人被告那到底有多少比例是重複的如果說有重複的就代表是說這一群人就是詐騙集團就持續他被抓了不怕\n抓了又放放了又抓他是不是就持續的在做詐騙那代表他罰不怕那罰不怕就兩個原因一個就是說這個市場真的太好做了所以他們就有恃無恐嘛那另外一個部分就認為是說他們很囂張啊他2022年一萬五千多人被抓查獲但是\n他抓了又放出去2023年18000多人你們講是說查獲詐欺被告人數成長16%好像很厲害但實際上這到底有多少人是重複的有沒有這樣的一個數據\n包委員,這個重複的一定是有啦,不過我們手上是沒有這個很精確的去比對這個數字。那如果說連這個數據都沒有的話,我們怎麼樣再延伸?其實這就是問題。我覺得過去到現在我們講詐騙講了那麼久。\n我們就一直講是說兩個部分一個是嚴峻禁法法令在之前有沒有辦法用強力的法令去讓嚇阻這些詐騙集團不管是車手不管是首腦不管是任何詐騙集團的人只要抓到我們會罰到你叫不敢\n這當然我們通力檢討我們大家一起來配合我們很多委員也在做提案修法但另外一方面是說如果說你們沒有掌握的話那這一些人就是持續囂張啊抓了又放放了又抓啊那不是累的是我們基層的同仁\n我就講說我都是一直站在我們第一線的警務人員喔我都講是說這上禮拜我們僅有在民防的這個參會都還有所長都還有分局長到現場都還是重複在講說大家要不要被詐騙啊165反詐騙都還是宣導我們同仁每一次遇到這種參會都還是宣導但是源頭管理\n你怎麼樣去把這一批人你都已經知道有一萬五千多人一萬八千多人那重複的人在哪裡有沒有辦法針對這個部分去做一個更加強我覺得這才是重點不要抓了又放放了又抓\n來最後我想請教一下那個速發部速發部你今天的第三點的資料本席也一直提講源頭管理很重要各資不要外洩你第三頁的資料辦理行政檢查作業講說重大各資外洩的業者加強行政檢查\n過去兩年多檢查了幾家?跟委員報告我們成立還不到兩年,我們一年多一年多檢查了幾家?一年半快兩年的時間檢查了幾家?檢查的部分我們做了24家但是28家次有的有兩次以上不管24家還是28次啊那你平均一個月兩次啊\n我們的能量有你檢查是哪一些啊我們都講是說過去到現在國人對於速發布最期待的就是你要加強這個個資的保護的一個檢查他就應該是說所有只要有收集個資的公司你把它列出來各行業別前三名你們正點先去稽查\n但是你到目前為止成立了快兩年的時間你才做了28次的行政檢查平均一個月兩次左右那無怪乎人家會覺得是說你速發部真的在個資保管或是源頭管理這邊都沒有辦法做一個盡責啊是不是讓委員讓我說明一下不是嗎你覺得28次夠嗎\n委員是不是讓我說明一下沒有關係你覺得28次夠嗎委員先生有個前提先讓我說明一下這個我們沒有管理到各行各業的個資這就是第一件事情我們針對是電商的部分你們接受電商沒有錯但是就是每一次只要遇到有本席一直強調速發部的功能是什麼除了\n除了要去做一個處理以外更重要是你們也要去維護相關去檢視人家的資安的部分嘛不然也不會有那種什麼隱成的APP突然被人家駭客入侵之後然後50萬筆的個資就被人家盜用本期一直強調是說這50萬筆的所以說這是誰的責任如果是隱成它會是文化部的責任我們的資安院會在他們發動的時候配合去檢查所以不會算在我們這邊\n所以其他部會一發動我們都去\n你這樣你還是沒有積極你還是可以要求其他部門共同去辦理我也沒有權限要求其他部門去這不是你沒有權限的問題這是做不做的問題我們都很願意積極做這個都沒有問題市長對不對市長本席沒有看到你們積極作為我說實在話國人也沒有看到速發部的積極作為其實最重點在於是什麼重點在於是源頭如果沒有管理你各自沒有辦法去做一個控管\n主席\n下一個質詢請羅志強羅委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.329 --> 00:28.120\n謝謝主席我們請法務部、內政部跟數位發展部法務部、內政部、數位發展部來謝謝喔我想今天主席排的這個案子非常的好打詐國人最生物痛絕就是詐騙那我們先看喔我們常常講是說道高磨高一尺道要高一丈什麼樣的詐騙都可以用有沒有看到最近\n\n00:29.366 --> 00:57.271\n居然搭上話題詐騙集團他們還會用白沙屯媽祖免費貼圖來詐騙一按下去之後馬上就會各司就會被騙光了那這有心人士來做有沒有掌握這樣的一個訊息警政署能不能先回覆一下內政部有沒有掌握現在因為很夯嘛粉紅超跑那有沒有人按到這樣的一個訊息然後被詐騙或所有後續的一個報案\n\n00:59.171 --> 01:27.074\n跟委員報告這個詐欺集團都會運用最新的一個時事來引誘那這個有關這個案子我們已經知道了不過目前還沒有收到民眾的報案還沒有收到報案但是知道這個案子我們已經有掌握了好沒有錯詐騙集團都會用最新的時事議題不管那個時候2021年的時候奧運我們也講就是有搭上奧運這一波熱潮WBC的時候有搭上中華隊的熱潮現在粉紅超跑又搭上粉紅超跑的熱潮\n\n01:28.014 --> 01:53.653\n讓大家就覺得說詐騙集團真的是變化一直在變化一直在精進啊那我們這樣有掌握了我想先請教因為本席的選區就有民眾就有問說那如果說真的不小心點了怎麼辦我們有任何機制如果告訴民眾如果說真的不小心點了有沒有自救措施來哪一個人可以回答我不管是速發部速發部\n\n01:55.714 --> 02:23.544\n委員我先跟你們報告第一個這個我們當然是先這個跟民眾推廣他還是要認明這個有認證的帳號特別是這種很明顯的是比如說白沙頓他本來就有他自己的帳號他有他認證的帳號這個非認證的帳號的東西就不要亂點第二個是相關的資訊數位部這邊有掌握第一時間有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個事情你說數位部怎麼樣第一時間數位部也有掌握這個貼圖的狀況也有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個假的貼圖那現在下架了嗎應該是下架了應該\n\n02:25.270 --> 02:43.978\n能不能確認一下來但是現在本席要問的是那如果說從以前到現在我們都一直有這樣子的一個疑問這也是本席一直在講說我們數打詐1.5寫得沸沸揚揚而且每一個部會我今天看了各部會的一個資料大家都寫得非常好像在作文比賽一樣\n\n02:45.117 --> 02:56.450\n但是我現在想問民眾也想知道那如果說不小心點了有沒有任何的補救機制或者是反應機制、申訴機制哪一個部會\n\n02:58.240 --> 03:25.787\n委員我先說明,申訴這個補救機制或檢舉機制、申訴機制現在上面都有,立刻檢舉在哪裡?LINE上面右上角本來就有一個檢舉帳號你這樣就是推給民眾,民眾就是自己去跟業者來申訴,是不是?沒有,他也可以跟165,兩個都可以,我只是說最快的方式他直接在那個頁面就可以檢舉可以檢舉嘛,但我現在問的是說民眾的個資已經被,如果說照這樣子的講法是民眾個資在按下去的那一刻就已經被\n\n03:26.909 --> 03:40.724\n被掌握了那有沒有任何的補救機制我自己走過一遍他理論上按下去個資不會拿到他只會拿到你的LINE帳號那你只會拿到LINE帳號對那後續怎麼他是有一個網頁要叫你填入其他的個資\n\n03:42.270 --> 04:04.593\n所以就是變成是說只要民眾還沒有到填入各自的部分是沒有問題的就沒有問題對是這樣嗎是這是跟賴這邊有確認過嗎我自己走過一遍你走現在國人最沒有辦法理解的就是說已經打詐打那麼多次到底現在整個的一個訊息都是非常的模糊\n\n04:05.214 --> 04:05.655\n我再請教一下內政部\n\n04:24.195 --> 04:35.085\n今天有特別的報告有講是說在第5月你們講說詐欺被告人數111年有15000多人112年有18000多人這一些人數有沒有重複的?本席為什麼覺得這個問題很重要?因為\n\n04:50.387 --> 05:01.566\n一萬五千多人被告一萬八千多人被告那到底有多少比例是重複的如果說有重複的就代表是說這一群人就是詐騙集團就持續他被抓了不怕\n\n05:02.802 --> 05:22.194\n抓了又放放了又抓他是不是就持續的在做詐騙那代表他罰不怕那罰不怕就兩個原因一個就是說這個市場真的太好做了所以他們就有恃無恐嘛那另外一個部分就認為是說他們很囂張啊他2022年一萬五千多人被抓查獲但是\n\n05:22.754 --> 05:35.076\n他抓了又放出去2023年18000多人你們講是說查獲詐欺被告人數成長16%好像很厲害但實際上這到底有多少人是重複的有沒有這樣的一個數據\n\n05:37.421 --> 05:51.578\n包委員,這個重複的一定是有啦,不過我們手上是沒有這個很精確的去比對這個數字。那如果說連這個數據都沒有的話,我們怎麼樣再延伸?其實這就是問題。我覺得過去到現在我們講詐騙講了那麼久。\n\n05:53.800 --> 06:10.112\n我們就一直講是說兩個部分一個是嚴峻禁法法令在之前有沒有辦法用強力的法令去讓嚇阻這些詐騙集團不管是車手不管是首腦不管是任何詐騙集團的人只要抓到我們會罰到你叫不敢\n\n06:11.347 --> 06:23.886\n這當然我們通力檢討我們大家一起來配合我們很多委員也在做提案修法但另外一方面是說如果說你們沒有掌握的話那這一些人就是持續囂張啊抓了又放放了又抓啊那不是累的是我們基層的同仁\n\n06:25.066 --> 06:46.777\n我就講說我都是一直站在我們第一線的警務人員喔我都講是說這上禮拜我們僅有在民防的這個參會都還有所長都還有分局長到現場都還是重複在講說大家要不要被詐騙啊165反詐騙都還是宣導我們同仁每一次遇到這種參會都還是宣導但是源頭管理\n\n06:47.617 --> 06:59.669\n你怎麼樣去把這一批人你都已經知道有一萬五千多人一萬八千多人那重複的人在哪裡有沒有辦法針對這個部分去做一個更加強我覺得這才是重點不要抓了又放放了又抓\n\n07:02.385 --> 07:21.528\n來最後我想請教一下那個速發部速發部你今天的第三點的資料本席也一直提講源頭管理很重要各資不要外洩你第三頁的資料辦理行政檢查作業講說重大各資外洩的業者加強行政檢查\n\n07:23.667 --> 07:46.804\n過去兩年多檢查了幾家?跟委員報告我們成立還不到兩年,我們一年多一年多檢查了幾家?一年半快兩年的時間檢查了幾家?檢查的部分我們做了24家但是28家次有的有兩次以上不管24家還是28次啊那你平均一個月兩次啊\n\n07:47.998 --> 08:07.219\n我們的能量有你檢查是哪一些啊我們都講是說過去到現在國人對於速發布最期待的就是你要加強這個個資的保護的一個檢查他就應該是說所有只要有收集個資的公司你把它列出來各行業別前三名你們正點先去稽查\n\n08:07.959 --> 08:25.623\n但是你到目前為止成立了快兩年的時間你才做了28次的行政檢查平均一個月兩次左右那無怪乎人家會覺得是說你速發部真的在個資保管或是源頭管理這邊都沒有辦法做一個盡責啊是不是讓委員讓我說明一下不是嗎你覺得28次夠嗎\n\n08:28.069 --> 08:47.312\n委員是不是讓我說明一下沒有關係你覺得28次夠嗎委員先生有個前提先讓我說明一下這個我們沒有管理到各行各業的個資這就是第一件事情我們針對是電商的部分你們接受電商沒有錯但是就是每一次只要遇到有本席一直強調速發部的功能是什麼除了\n\n08:47.933 --> 09:14.133\n除了要去做一個處理以外更重要是你們也要去維護相關去檢視人家的資安的部分嘛不然也不會有那種什麼隱成的APP突然被人家駭客入侵之後然後50萬筆的個資就被人家盜用本期一直強調是說這50萬筆的所以說這是誰的責任如果是隱成它會是文化部的責任我們的資安院會在他們發動的時候配合去檢查所以不會算在我們這邊\n\n09:15.725 --> 09:17.986\n所以其他部會一發動我們都去\n\n09:44.670 --> 10:11.147\n你這樣你還是沒有積極你還是可以要求其他部門共同去辦理我也沒有權限要求其他部門去這不是你沒有權限的問題這是做不做的問題我們都很願意積極做這個都沒有問題市長對不對市長本席沒有看到你們積極作為我說實在話國人也沒有看到速發部的積極作為其實最重點在於是什麼重點在於是源頭如果沒有管理你各自沒有辦法去做一個控管\n\n10:11.727 --> 10:12.348\n主席\n\n10:42.182 --> 10:42.564\n下一個質詢請羅志強羅委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.329,"end":28.12,"text":"謝謝主席我們請法務部、內政部跟數位發展部法務部、內政部、數位發展部來 謝謝喔我想今天主席排的這個案子非常的好打詐國人最生物痛絕就是詐騙那我們先看喔我們常常講是說道高磨高一尺道要高一丈什麼樣的詐騙都可以用有沒有看到最近"},{"start":29.366,"end":57.271,"text":"居然搭上話題詐騙集團他們還會用白沙屯媽祖免費貼圖來詐騙一按下去之後馬上就會各司就會被騙光了那這有心人士來做有沒有掌握這樣的一個訊息警政署能不能先回覆一下內政部有沒有掌握現在因為很夯嘛粉紅超跑那有沒有人按到這樣的一個訊息然後被詐騙或所有後續的一個報案"},{"start":59.171,"end":87.074,"text":"跟委員報告這個詐欺集團都會運用最新的一個時事來引誘那這個有關這個案子我們已經知道了不過目前還沒有收到民眾的報案還沒有收到報案但是知道這個案子我們已經有掌握了好沒有錯詐騙集團都會用最新的時事議題不管那個時候2021年的時候奧運我們也講就是有搭上奧運這一波熱潮WBC的時候有搭上中華隊的熱潮現在粉紅超跑又搭上粉紅超跑的熱潮"},{"start":88.014,"end":113.653,"text":"讓大家就覺得說詐騙集團真的是變化一直在變化一直在精進啊那我們這樣有掌握了我想先請教因為本席的選區就有民眾就有問說那如果說真的不小心點了怎麼辦我們有任何機制如果告訴民眾如果說真的不小心點了有沒有自救措施來哪一個人可以回答我不管是速發部速發部"},{"start":115.714,"end":143.544,"text":"委員我先跟你們報告第一個這個我們當然是先這個跟民眾推廣他還是要認明這個有認證的帳號特別是這種很明顯的是比如說白沙頓他本來就有他自己的帳號他有他認證的帳號這個非認證的帳號的東西就不要亂點第二個是相關的資訊數位部這邊有掌握第一時間有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個事情你說數位部怎麼樣第一時間數位部也有掌握這個貼圖的狀況也有跟LINE溝通請他們要下架這個假的貼圖那現在下架了嗎應該是下架了應該"},{"start":145.27,"end":163.978,"text":"能不能確認一下來但是現在本席要問的是那如果說從以前到現在我們都一直有這樣子的一個疑問這也是本席一直在講說我們數打詐1.5寫得沸沸揚揚而且每一個部會我今天看了各部會的一個資料大家都寫得非常好像在作文比賽一樣"},{"start":165.117,"end":176.45,"text":"但是我現在想問民眾也想知道那如果說不小心點了有沒有任何的補救機制或者是反應機制、申訴機制哪一個部會"},{"start":178.24,"end":205.787,"text":"委員我先說明,申訴這個補救機制或檢舉機制、申訴機制現在上面都有,立刻檢舉在哪裡?LINE上面右上角本來就有一個檢舉帳號你這樣就是推給民眾,民眾就是自己去跟業者來申訴,是不是?沒有,他也可以跟165,兩個都可以,我只是說最快的方式他直接在那個頁面就可以檢舉可以檢舉嘛,但我現在問的是說民眾的個資已經被,如果說照這樣子的講法是民眾個資在按下去的那一刻就已經被"},{"start":206.909,"end":220.724,"text":"被掌握了那有沒有任何的補救機制我自己走過一遍他理論上按下去個資不會拿到他只會拿到你的LINE帳號那你只會拿到LINE帳號對那後續怎麼他是有一個網頁要叫你填入其他的個資"},{"start":222.27,"end":244.593,"text":"所以就是變成是說只要民眾還沒有到填入各自的部分是沒有問題的就沒有問題對是這樣嗎是這是跟賴這邊有確認過嗎我自己走過一遍你走現在國人最沒有辦法理解的就是說已經打詐打那麼多次到底現在整個的一個訊息都是非常的模糊"},{"start":245.214,"end":245.655,"text":"我再請教一下內政部"},{"start":264.195,"end":275.085,"text":"今天有特別的報告有講是說在第5月你們講說詐欺被告人數111年有15000多人112年有18000多人這一些人數有沒有重複的?本席為什麼覺得這個問題很重要?因為"},{"start":290.387,"end":301.566,"text":"一萬五千多人被告一萬八千多人被告那到底有多少比例是重複的如果說有重複的就代表是說這一群人就是詐騙集團就持續他被抓了不怕"},{"start":302.802,"end":322.194,"text":"抓了又放放了又抓他是不是就持續的在做詐騙那代表他罰不怕那罰不怕就兩個原因一個就是說這個市場真的太好做了所以他們就有恃無恐嘛那另外一個部分就認為是說他們很囂張啊他2022年一萬五千多人被抓查獲但是"},{"start":322.754,"end":335.076,"text":"他抓了又放出去2023年18000多人你們講是說查獲詐欺被告人數成長16%好像很厲害但實際上這到底有多少人是重複的有沒有這樣的一個數據"},{"start":337.421,"end":351.578,"text":"包委員,這個重複的一定是有啦,不過我們手上是沒有這個很精確的去比對這個數字。那如果說連這個數據都沒有的話,我們怎麼樣再延伸?其實這就是問題。我覺得過去到現在我們講詐騙講了那麼久。"},{"start":353.8,"end":370.112,"text":"我們就一直講是說兩個部分一個是嚴峻禁法法令在之前有沒有辦法用強力的法令去讓嚇阻這些詐騙集團不管是車手不管是首腦不管是任何詐騙集團的人只要抓到我們會罰到你叫不敢"},{"start":371.347,"end":383.886,"text":"這當然我們通力檢討我們大家一起來配合我們很多委員也在做提案修法但另外一方面是說如果說你們沒有掌握的話那這一些人就是持續囂張啊抓了又放放了又抓啊那不是累的是我們基層的同仁"},{"start":385.066,"end":406.777,"text":"我就講說我都是一直站在我們第一線的警務人員喔我都講是說這上禮拜我們僅有在民防的這個參會都還有所長都還有分局長到現場都還是重複在講說大家要不要被詐騙啊165反詐騙都還是宣導我們同仁每一次遇到這種參會都還是宣導但是源頭管理"},{"start":407.617,"end":419.669,"text":"你怎麼樣去把這一批人你都已經知道有一萬五千多人一萬八千多人那重複的人在哪裡有沒有辦法針對這個部分去做一個更加強我覺得這才是重點不要抓了又放放了又抓"},{"start":422.385,"end":441.528,"text":"來最後我想請教一下那個速發部速發部你今天的第三點的資料本席也一直提講源頭管理很重要各資不要外洩你第三頁的資料辦理行政檢查作業講說重大各資外洩的業者加強行政檢查"},{"start":443.667,"end":466.804,"text":"過去兩年多檢查了幾家?跟委員報告我們成立還不到兩年,我們一年多一年多檢查了幾家?一年半快兩年的時間檢查了幾家?檢查的部分我們做了24家但是28家次有的有兩次以上不管24家還是28次啊那你平均一個月兩次啊"},{"start":467.998,"end":487.219,"text":"我們的能量有你檢查是哪一些啊我們都講是說過去到現在國人對於速發布最期待的就是你要加強這個個資的保護的一個檢查他就應該是說所有只要有收集個資的公司你把它列出來各行業別前三名你們正點先去稽查"},{"start":487.959,"end":505.623,"text":"但是你到目前為止成立了快兩年的時間你才做了28次的行政檢查平均一個月兩次左右那無怪乎人家會覺得是說你速發部真的在個資保管或是源頭管理這邊都沒有辦法做一個盡責啊是不是讓委員讓我說明一下不是嗎你覺得28次夠嗎"},{"start":508.069,"end":527.312,"text":"委員是不是讓我說明一下沒有關係你覺得28次夠嗎委員先生有個前提先讓我說明一下這個我們沒有管理到各行各業的個資這就是第一件事情我們針對是電商的部分你們接受電商沒有錯但是就是每一次只要遇到有本席一直強調速發部的功能是什麼除了"},{"start":527.933,"end":554.133,"text":"除了要去做一個處理以外更重要是你們也要去維護相關去檢視人家的資安的部分嘛不然也不會有那種什麼隱成的APP突然被人家駭客入侵之後然後50萬筆的個資就被人家盜用本期一直強調是說這50萬筆的所以說這是誰的責任如果是隱成它會是文化部的責任我們的資安院會在他們發動的時候配合去檢查所以不會算在我們這邊"},{"start":555.725,"end":557.986,"text":"所以其他部會一發動我們都去"},{"start":584.67,"end":611.147,"text":"你這樣你還是沒有積極你還是可以要求其他部門共同去辦理我也沒有權限要求其他部門去這不是你沒有權限的問題這是做不做的問題我們都很願意積極做這個都沒有問題市長對不對市長本席沒有看到你們積極作為我說實在話國人也沒有看到速發部的積極作為其實最重點在於是什麼重點在於是源頭如果沒有管理你各自沒有辦法去做一個控管"},{"start":611.727,"end":612.348,"text":"主席"},{"start":642.182,"end":642.564,"text":"下一個質詢請羅志強羅委員"}]}}}}