{"id":150404,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150404","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b89d86739c1301a7d8506765f624e20d0f8ba9b0039caa7a6b3dd9825d0cc6db95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"13:11:35 - 13:19:29","影片長度":"00:07:54","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":474,"end_time":"2024-03-25T13:19:29+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T13:11:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1337,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（13時11分）謝謝主席。我想請金管會、警政署還有數發部。"],["主席：請金管會黃主任委員、數發部李次長。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員午安。"],["徐委員巧芯：午安。請問數發部，剛剛您說數發部是負責管電商嘛？"],["李次長懷仁：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：對吧。那我們來看一下最常見的幾種詐騙類型，第一個是貨到付款。你看有的人是預購口罩，買了之後收到相關訊息，說已經到貨了，到貨之後付款取貨後，拿到的東西跟訂購內容是不一樣的。甚至很誇張的，像網拍詐騙的部分，沒有拿到貨或拿到錯誤的貨，連全臺北市最精明的臺北市議員社民黨的苗博雅買手機都被詐騙！","我看到你們說要提高強化資安防護能力，可是你的報告裡面累計只有協助88家公會的會員演練；然後你說要導入隱碼技術，目前只有5家業者要加入；積極辦理個資外洩，只有結案52家；行政相關作業只有針對24家業者辦理28次行政檢查。請問你覺得夠嗎？現在窒礙難行的原因是什麼？為什麼家數這麼少？","我們知道網路上的店家千千萬萬種，可是數發部有配合的、有協助處理的，只有非常少數。尤其既然是詐騙，他幹嘛跟你合作？請問這個問題就你們現在所列表的處理方式是能夠解決的嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：跟委員報告，如果你有看報告，後面有一個部分是高危險賣場，其實那個數字就已經往下降了。這就是因為我們推動……"],["徐委員巧芯：數字往下降，降了多少的百分比？"],["李次長懷仁：應該是說我們已經從165的高風險賣場名單移開了，就是這些純電商的賣場，過去他們……"],["徐委員巧芯：對啊，我問你們下降了多少百分比？"],["李次長懷仁：這個數字可能要請警政署提供，因為我們不是報案機關。"],["徐委員巧芯：你叫我看報告，你報告裡面又寫得不清楚，叫你回答，你又回答不清楚！是不是回去再檢討一下？"],["李次長懷仁：這個我們下次會寫。"],["徐委員巧芯：主席，這應該是一個很正常的、很簡單的問題，他們竟然回答不出來？來，繼續說。"],["李次長懷仁：您剛剛講的部分，我們是從源頭管理，也就是從電商的部分。過去可能比較被詬病的是你在買東西的時候，很快就會收到詐騙訊息，表示你的個資從電商端出去了。我們現在從電商端開始。剛剛講的5家，其實都是國內的主要電商，市占率大概加起來已經超過七、八成，所以我們是先從大的開始。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，那我們會不會針對第三方支付加強抽查？"],["李次長懷仁：有！這點也跟委員說明……"],["徐委員巧芯：我們從過去抽查的比率，一年來第三方支付平台交易規模20億元以下，歸數位部管。有1.4萬家業者，過去我們每年抽查幾家？"],["李次長懷仁：跟委員報告，這個1.4萬家是有登記的，因為過去第三方支付不是特許行業……"],["徐委員巧芯：對啦，我問你每年抽幾家嘛？"],["李次長懷仁：現在我們是用登錄制。"],["徐委員巧芯：去年抽幾家？"],["李次長懷仁：登錄制的概念，是每一家都要檢查，等於是百分之百。"],["徐委員巧芯：去年抽幾家？"],["李次長懷仁：到目前為止有81家登錄，我們81家都檢查。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以81家就是百分之百。"],["李次長懷仁：因為要登錄才能營業，如果不登錄，他就沒有虛擬帳號，幾乎就沒有辦法營業了。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，所以你們在抽查的部分，不是針對每一家業者抽查？"],["李次長懷仁：是他反過來要跟我們申報。"],["徐委員巧芯：他反過來跟你申報，他沒申報的部分，你們就……"],["李次長懷仁：他就拿不到銀行給他的虛擬帳號，沒辦法營業。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，針對第三方支付的抽查可能都還要再加強。"],["李次長懷仁：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：再來要問投資詐騙的部分。請問法務部，im.B詐騙的部分，請問目前調查進度到哪裡了？","不好意思，主席，我剛剛沒有叫到法務部。"],["主席：請法務部黃次長說明。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，im.B的案子，去年8月臺北地檢署起訴之後，目前在臺北地院審理當中。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。這是大家都很重視的案子，請你們要盡快把事實釐清出來，向社會交代。","再來我要問有關電子簽證，這我也不知道你們誰管的，請自己認領一下，因為現在詐騙太多元了。"],["李次長懷仁：電子簽證是數位部。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們知道現在要去美國，要辦電子簽證，如果我搜尋……"],["李次長懷仁：委員，抱歉，電子簽章跟電子簽證不一樣。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是，我是在講簽證簽證，所以你不要應那麼快，你根本就不知道我問什麼，你就說是我管的，那不是莫名其妙嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：抱歉。"],["徐委員巧芯：其實還是數位部的。我在講的是，我們想要辦電子簽證的時候，假設我今天打ESTA，進去之後第一個跳出來的，會是別人打贊助廣告的ESTA for the United States，這些網站會假裝自己是美國官方，然後每一個簽證收你97塊美金，如果你到了正確的平台，就是21塊美金而已。它還是會幫你辦，但是中間的價差它就賺走了！"],["李次長懷仁：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：請問這個部分我們要如何處理？要跟Google聯繫嗎？因為非常嚴重喔！幾乎你打電子簽證、美簽、ESTA所有的關鍵字，跳進去的前幾個都不是官方網站，請問這個部分數位部要怎麼處理？"],["李次長懷仁：跟委員報告，這個部分我們很早就注意到，我們也有跟AIT聯繫，請AIT如果可以……"],["徐委員巧芯：我要問你解決方案，我時間不夠。"],["李次長懷仁：AIT在他們的官網上也有說明，他們不認為這個是違法。"],["徐委員巧芯：你不認為是違法，但問題是這實際上對我國的國民來說，21塊美金可以做的東西，一大堆人被騙到要用97塊，你們是覺得無所謂，就放任就好，只要說明就好了？"],["李次長懷仁：我們沒有覺得無所謂，但是AIT要能夠……"],["徐委員巧芯：那請問你具體的解決方式是什麼嘛？"],["李次長懷仁：AIT要……"],["徐委員巧芯：不是AIT的問題，我問你數位發展部的問題！它今天是因為在Google上面打了贊助廣告，所以排名才這麼前面，這個部分有要做任何處理嗎？還是放任他們在Google上面一直推播？"],["李次長懷仁：我們也會請Google跟AIT強化這件事情。"],["徐委員巧芯：請問具體你們希望什麼時候可以解決這個狀況跟問題？"],["李次長懷仁：我沒有辦法要求AIT。"],["徐委員巧芯：我說的是Google，你又跟我扯AIT要作什麼呢？"],["李次長懷仁：因為這個還是有AIT的問題啊。"],["徐委員巧芯：今天他們是登了Google的廣告，所以它的關鍵字排行在很前面，所以我們有沒有可能跟Google聯繫要下架？"],["李次長懷仁：這個沒有問題。我們可以告訴Google，聯繫這件事情。"],["徐委員巧芯：你跟我扯AIT幹嘛？"],["李次長懷仁：因為它還是假冒AIT啊。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是，它假冒AIT，但是AIT不覺得它是假冒，所以我們就要自己來處理Google的廣告。","今天一個民眾在Google打ESTA進去搜尋，前面幾個全部都是97塊美金的，這當然是數發部處理，叫AIT處理幹嘛？這當然是你們的責任跟工作啊！還是你覺得不是、跟你無關？請問跟誰有關？跟所有人都沒有關係，政府都不用管，就讓一大堆人被收97塊美金，是這個意思嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：沒有，委員，我沒有這樣說，我只是說法律上……"],["徐委員巧芯：請問你們會跟Google談……"],["李次長懷仁：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：什麼時候會談好、什麼時候會有進度、什麼時候會要求不能給這些贊助廣告？"],["李次長懷仁：我們本週就可以跟它談，但是我沒有辦法告訴你什麼時候會有結果。"],["徐委員巧芯：本週？所以今天如果我沒有提出這個質詢的話，你們有這個計畫嗎？"],["李次長懷仁：我們本週就有約好要跟他們談事情。"],["徐委員巧芯：是談事情，所以我今天如果沒有質詢，這個議題就不會加進來啊！不要講一些左右而言他的，拜託！這個部分很重要，很多人要去美國都受騙，結果白白多花了好幾十塊美金。麻煩數發部要去跟Google談，要把它處理好，謝謝。"],["李次長懷仁：我們會跟Google說，謝謝委員。"],["主席：Google是誰管的？"],["李次長懷仁：看哪一個業務……"],["主席：就你們管的。誰可以請Google不要做？"],["李次長懷仁：不要做？"],["主席：對，停業。誰管的嘛？就是你們，你們管好就好了啊！","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":298,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-5","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","顏寬恒","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","謝衣鳯","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra 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\"告\", \"start\": 434.758, \"end\": 434.858, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 434.858, \"end\": 434.978, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 434.978, \"end\": 435.178, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 435.178, \"end\": 435.278, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 435.278, \"end\": 435.378, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 435.378, \"end\": 435.398, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 438.26, \"end\": 438.28, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,510 --> 00:00:05,523\n經管會、警政署、速發部速發部理事長\n\n2\n00:00:16,794 --> 00:00:31,888\n委員五安五安那個數發部剛剛您說呢是負責管電商嘛對吧是那我們來看一下最常見的幾種詐騙類型裡面喔第一個這叫做貨到付款貨到付款呢包含是你看有的人是預購口罩\n\n3\n00:00:33,189 --> 00:00:53,592\n然後買了之後他收到了相關的訊息說已經到貨了到貨之後取款以後拿到的東西跟裡面是不一樣的甚至很誇張的像網拍詐騙的部分沒有拿到貨或拿到錯誤的貨連我們全台北市最精明的台北市議員社民黨的這個苗博雅都買手機被詐騙\n\n4\n00:00:54,813 --> 00:01:16,981\n那請問我看到你們想說所謂的要提高強化資安防護能力可是呢你裡面累計只有協助到88家公會的會員演練然後呢你說導入這個銀馬技術到目前只有5家業者要加入積極辦理各自外洩只有結案了52家行政相關的作業只有針對24家業者辦理28次行政檢查\n\n5\n00:01:21,842 --> 00:01:44,314\n請問你覺得夠嗎?現在為什麼我們碰到至愛難行的原因是什麼?為什麼加數這麼少?我們知道網路上的店家千千萬萬種可是我們速發部有配合的有協助處理的只有非常少數的尤其他既然是詐騙他幹嘛跟你合作所以請問這個問題你們現在所列表的處理方式是能夠解決的嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:46,124 --> 00:01:47,205\n數字往下降價了多少的百分比?\n\n7\n00:02:03,969 --> 00:02:29,377\n應該是說我們已經從這個165的這個高風險賣場的名單離開了,就是這些純電商的賣場。對啊,我問你說你們下降下降了多少百分比啊?這個數字可能要請行政局,因為我不是報案經理。好,那你又叫我看報告,你報告裡面又寫得不清楚,叫你回答你又回答不清楚,是不是要檢討一下?這個應該是很正常的主席,這應該是很正常的一個很簡單的問題,他們竟然回答不出來,來繼續說。\n\n8\n00:02:30,957 --> 00:02:49,628\n您剛剛講的部分我們是從源頭管理也就是說我們從電商的部分過去可能會比較被詬病的是說你在買東西的時候很快就會收到有詐騙表示你的個資從電商端就出去了所以我們現在從電商端開始那剛剛講的5家其實都是國內的主要的電商市佔率大概加起來已經超過七八成所以我們是先從大的開始\n\n9\n00:02:51,769 --> 00:03:10,341\n我們會不會針對第三方支付加強抽查?從過去抽查的比率一年來說第三方支付平台交易規模20億以下歸數位不管1.4萬家業者我們每年過去抽查幾家?\n\n10\n00:03:11,141 --> 00:03:32,450\n跟委員報告這個1.4萬家是他有登記因為過去第三方支付不是特許行業那沒有這個現在我們是用登錄字所以登錄字的概念是每一家都要檢查所以等於是百分之百去年我們到目前為止來81家81家都檢查所以81家就是百分之百\n\n11\n00:03:33,117 --> 00:04:00,893\n因為要登錄才能營業,如果不登錄他就沒有虛擬賬號,他就幾乎沒有辦法營業了。好,所以你們在抽查的部分裡面,你們不是針對每一家業者去抽?是,他反過來要來跟我們申報了。他反過來跟你申報,他沒申報的部分你沒有...他就拿不到銀行給他的虛擬賬號,他沒辦法營業。OK,那這個部分的抽查可能都還要再加強,針對第三方支付。所以我要問那個投資詐騙的部分法務部,那個IMB詐騙的部分請問現在目前調查進度到哪裡了?\n\n12\n00:04:02,214 --> 00:04:03,997\n不好意思主席我剛剛沒有叫到法務部請法務部\n\n13\n00:04:13,155 --> 00:04:42,090\n各位委員報告案B案子去年8月台北地檢有起訴之後這目前在台北地院審理當中好那這個是大家都很重視的案子請你們要盡快的去把事實釐清出來向社會做交代再來呢我要問這個有關於電子簽證這我也不知道你們誰管的自己認領一下因為現在詐騙太多元了電子簽證的部分你們知道現在如果要去美國我們辦電子簽證好了那如果我搜尋委員報告我們是電子簽章跟電子簽證不一樣\n\n14\n00:04:42,830 --> 00:05:09,969\n不是啦我是在講所以你不要硬那麼快嘛你根本就不知道我問什麼人就說是我管的這莫名其妙嗎我在講的是說我們今天想要辦這個電子簽證的時候如果我今天其實還是數位部的啦我今天假設我打ESTA進去之後第一個跳出來的會是別人打贊助廣告的這個ESTAforUnitedStates這些網站它會假裝它自己是美國官方然後呢它每一個\n\n15\n00:05:11,069 --> 00:05:30,241\n簽證他給你收97塊美金但如果你到了正確的平台就是21塊美金而已中間他還是會幫你辦但是呢中間的價差他就賺走了請問這個部分我們要如何處理要跟Google來聯繫嗎因為非常嚴重喔幾乎你打電子簽證、美簽、ESTA所有的關鍵字跳進去的前幾個\n\n16\n00:05:32,082 --> 00:05:45,195\n都不是官方網站請問這個部分數位部要怎麼處理?跟委員報告這個部分我們很早就注意到我們也有跟AIT聯繫請來第一題如果可以對我要問你解決方案我們時間不夠AIT在他們的官網上也有說明他們不認為這個是違法\n\n17\n00:05:47,204 --> 00:06:12,100\n說明說不是你不認為是違法但是問題是說你這東西實際上對我國的國民來說他21塊美金可以做的東西一大堆人被騙到變97塊你們是覺得無所謂就放任就好只要說明就好了那請問你具體的解決方式是什麼嗎不是AIT的問題我問你數位發展部的問題他今天是因為在google上面打了贊助廣告所以他的排名才這麼前面\n\n18\n00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:42,163\n那這個部分我們有要做任何處理嗎?還是要放任他們讓Google上面一直推波?我們會請Google跟IT強化這件事情那請問具體你們希望什麼時候可以解決這個狀況跟問題嗎?我沒有辦法要求AIT沒有辦法做我說的是Google你要跟我扯AIT要做什麼呢?今天他們是登了Google的廣告嘛所以他的關鍵字排行在很前面嘛所以我們有沒有可能跟Google聯繫說這個背包要下架嗎?我們可以告訴Google聯繫這個事情因為還是假冒AIT啊\n\n19\n00:06:42,583 --> 00:06:42,783\n主席\n\n20\n00:07:00,387 --> 00:07:15,398\n還是你覺得不是跟你無關那請問跟誰有關跟所有人都沒有關係政府都不用管我們就大家一大堆人收97塊美金是這個意思嗎沒有我沒有這樣說我只是說那請問你剛剛講說你們會跟Google談什麼時候會談好什麼時候會有進度什麼時候會把這些贊助廣告要求他們不能給\n\n21\n00:07:18,260 --> 00:07:18,280\n好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n510\t5523\t經管會、警政署、速發部速發部理事長\n16794\t31888\t委員五安五安那個數發部剛剛您說呢是負責管電商嘛對吧是那我們來看一下最常見的幾種詐騙類型裡面喔第一個這叫做貨到付款貨到付款呢包含是你看有的人是預購口罩\n33189\t53592\t然後買了之後他收到了相關的訊息說已經到貨了到貨之後取款以後拿到的東西跟裡面是不一樣的甚至很誇張的像網拍詐騙的部分沒有拿到貨或拿到錯誤的貨連我們全台北市最精明的台北市議員社民黨的這個苗博雅都買手機被詐騙\n54813\t76981\t那請問我看到你們想說所謂的要提高強化資安防護能力可是呢你裡面累計只有協助到88家公會的會員演練然後呢你說導入這個銀馬技術到目前只有5家業者要加入積極辦理各自外洩只有結案了52家行政相關的作業只有針對24家業者辦理28次行政檢查\n81842\t104314\t請問你覺得夠嗎?現在為什麼我們碰到至愛難行的原因是什麼?為什麼加數這麼少?我們知道網路上的店家千千萬萬種可是我們速發部有配合的有協助處理的只有非常少數的尤其他既然是詐騙他幹嘛跟你合作所以請問這個問題你們現在所列表的處理方式是能夠解決的嗎?\n106124\t107205\t數字往下降價了多少的百分比?\n123969\t149377\t應該是說我們已經從這個165的這個高風險賣場的名單離開了,就是這些純電商的賣場。對啊,我問你說你們下降下降了多少百分比啊?這個數字可能要請行政局,因為我不是報案經理。好,那你又叫我看報告,你報告裡面又寫得不清楚,叫你回答你又回答不清楚,是不是要檢討一下?這個應該是很正常的主席,這應該是很正常的一個很簡單的問題,他們竟然回答不出來,來繼續說。\n150957\t169628\t您剛剛講的部分我們是從源頭管理也就是說我們從電商的部分過去可能會比較被詬病的是說你在買東西的時候很快就會收到有詐騙表示你的個資從電商端就出去了所以我們現在從電商端開始那剛剛講的5家其實都是國內的主要的電商市佔率大概加起來已經超過七八成所以我們是先從大的開始\n171769\t190341\t我們會不會針對第三方支付加強抽查?從過去抽查的比率一年來說第三方支付平台交易規模20億以下歸數位不管1.4萬家業者我們每年過去抽查幾家?\n191141\t212450\t跟委員報告這個1.4萬家是他有登記因為過去第三方支付不是特許行業那沒有這個現在我們是用登錄字所以登錄字的概念是每一家都要檢查所以等於是百分之百去年我們到目前為止來81家81家都檢查所以81家就是百分之百\n213117\t240893\t因為要登錄才能營業,如果不登錄他就沒有虛擬賬號,他就幾乎沒有辦法營業了。好,所以你們在抽查的部分裡面,你們不是針對每一家業者去抽?是,他反過來要來跟我們申報了。他反過來跟你申報,他沒申報的部分你沒有...他就拿不到銀行給他的虛擬賬號,他沒辦法營業。OK,那這個部分的抽查可能都還要再加強,針對第三方支付。所以我要問那個投資詐騙的部分法務部,那個IMB詐騙的部分請問現在目前調查進度到哪裡了?\n242214\t243997\t不好意思主席我剛剛沒有叫到法務部請法務部\n253155\t282090\t各位委員報告案B案子去年8月台北地檢有起訴之後這目前在台北地院審理當中好那這個是大家都很重視的案子請你們要盡快的去把事實釐清出來向社會做交代再來呢我要問這個有關於電子簽證這我也不知道你們誰管的自己認領一下因為現在詐騙太多元了電子簽證的部分你們知道現在如果要去美國我們辦電子簽證好了那如果我搜尋委員報告我們是電子簽章跟電子簽證不一樣\n282830\t309969\t不是啦 我是在講所以你不要硬那麼快嘛你根本就不知道我問什麼人就說是我管的這莫名其妙嗎我在講的是說我們今天想要辦這個電子簽證的時候如果我今天其實還是數位部的啦我今天假設我打ESTA進去之後第一個跳出來的會是別人打贊助廣告的這個ESTA for United States這些網站它會假裝它自己是美國官方然後呢它每一個\n311069\t330241\t簽證他給你收97塊美金但如果你到了正確的平台就是21塊美金而已中間他還是會幫你辦但是呢中間的價差他就賺走了請問這個部分我們要如何處理要跟Google來聯繫嗎因為非常嚴重喔幾乎你打電子簽證、美簽、ESTA所有的關鍵字跳進去的前幾個\n332082\t345195\t都不是官方網站請問這個部分數位部要怎麼處理?跟委員報告這個部分我們很早就注意到我們也有跟AIT聯繫請來第一題如果可以對我要問你解決方案我們時間不夠AIT在他們的官網上也有說明他們不認為這個是違法\n347204\t372100\t說明說不是你不認為是違法但是問題是說你這東西實際上對我國的國民來說他21塊美金可以做的東西一大堆人被騙到變97塊你們是覺得無所謂就放任就好只要說明就好了那請問你具體的解決方式是什麼嗎不是AIT的問題我問你數位發展部的問題他今天是因為在google上面打了贊助廣告所以他的排名才這麼前面\n372680\t402163\t那這個部分我們有要做任何處理嗎?還是要放任他們讓Google上面一直推波?我們會請Google跟IT強化這件事情那請問具體你們希望什麼時候可以解決這個狀況跟問題嗎?我沒有辦法要求AIT沒有辦法做我說的是Google你要跟我扯AIT要做什麼呢?今天他們是登了Google的廣告嘛所以他的關鍵字排行在很前面嘛所以我們有沒有可能跟Google聯繫說這個背包要下架嗎?我們可以告訴Google聯繫這個事情因為還是假冒AIT啊\n402583\t402783\t主席\n420387\t435398\t還是你覺得不是跟你無關那請問跟誰有關跟所有人都沒有關係政府都不用管我們就大家一大堆人收97塊美金是這個意思嗎沒有我沒有這樣說我只是說那請問你剛剛講說你們會跟Google談什麼時候會談好什麼時候會有進度什麼時候會把這些贊助廣告要求他們不能給\n438260\t438280\t好,謝謝。\n473473\t473933\t謝謝\n","txt":"經管會、警政署、速發部速發部理事長\n委員五安五安那個數發部剛剛您說呢是負責管電商嘛對吧是那我們來看一下最常見的幾種詐騙類型裡面喔第一個這叫做貨到付款貨到付款呢包含是你看有的人是預購口罩\n然後買了之後他收到了相關的訊息說已經到貨了到貨之後取款以後拿到的東西跟裡面是不一樣的甚至很誇張的像網拍詐騙的部分沒有拿到貨或拿到錯誤的貨連我們全台北市最精明的台北市議員社民黨的這個苗博雅都買手機被詐騙\n那請問我看到你們想說所謂的要提高強化資安防護能力可是呢你裡面累計只有協助到88家公會的會員演練然後呢你說導入這個銀馬技術到目前只有5家業者要加入積極辦理各自外洩只有結案了52家行政相關的作業只有針對24家業者辦理28次行政檢查\n請問你覺得夠嗎?現在為什麼我們碰到至愛難行的原因是什麼?為什麼加數這麼少?我們知道網路上的店家千千萬萬種可是我們速發部有配合的有協助處理的只有非常少數的尤其他既然是詐騙他幹嘛跟你合作所以請問這個問題你們現在所列表的處理方式是能夠解決的嗎?\n數字往下降價了多少的百分比?\n應該是說我們已經從這個165的這個高風險賣場的名單離開了,就是這些純電商的賣場。對啊,我問你說你們下降下降了多少百分比啊?這個數字可能要請行政局,因為我不是報案經理。好,那你又叫我看報告,你報告裡面又寫得不清楚,叫你回答你又回答不清楚,是不是要檢討一下?這個應該是很正常的主席,這應該是很正常的一個很簡單的問題,他們竟然回答不出來,來繼續說。\n您剛剛講的部分我們是從源頭管理也就是說我們從電商的部分過去可能會比較被詬病的是說你在買東西的時候很快就會收到有詐騙表示你的個資從電商端就出去了所以我們現在從電商端開始那剛剛講的5家其實都是國內的主要的電商市佔率大概加起來已經超過七八成所以我們是先從大的開始\n我們會不會針對第三方支付加強抽查?從過去抽查的比率一年來說第三方支付平台交易規模20億以下歸數位不管1.4萬家業者我們每年過去抽查幾家?\n跟委員報告這個1.4萬家是他有登記因為過去第三方支付不是特許行業那沒有這個現在我們是用登錄字所以登錄字的概念是每一家都要檢查所以等於是百分之百去年我們到目前為止來81家81家都檢查所以81家就是百分之百\n因為要登錄才能營業,如果不登錄他就沒有虛擬賬號,他就幾乎沒有辦法營業了。好,所以你們在抽查的部分裡面,你們不是針對每一家業者去抽?是,他反過來要來跟我們申報了。他反過來跟你申報,他沒申報的部分你沒有...他就拿不到銀行給他的虛擬賬號,他沒辦法營業。OK,那這個部分的抽查可能都還要再加強,針對第三方支付。所以我要問那個投資詐騙的部分法務部,那個IMB詐騙的部分請問現在目前調查進度到哪裡了?\n不好意思主席我剛剛沒有叫到法務部請法務部\n各位委員報告案B案子去年8月台北地檢有起訴之後這目前在台北地院審理當中好那這個是大家都很重視的案子請你們要盡快的去把事實釐清出來向社會做交代再來呢我要問這個有關於電子簽證這我也不知道你們誰管的自己認領一下因為現在詐騙太多元了電子簽證的部分你們知道現在如果要去美國我們辦電子簽證好了那如果我搜尋委員報告我們是電子簽章跟電子簽證不一樣\n不是啦 我是在講所以你不要硬那麼快嘛你根本就不知道我問什麼人就說是我管的這莫名其妙嗎我在講的是說我們今天想要辦這個電子簽證的時候如果我今天其實還是數位部的啦我今天假設我打ESTA進去之後第一個跳出來的會是別人打贊助廣告的這個ESTA for United States這些網站它會假裝它自己是美國官方然後呢它每一個\n簽證他給你收97塊美金但如果你到了正確的平台就是21塊美金而已中間他還是會幫你辦但是呢中間的價差他就賺走了請問這個部分我們要如何處理要跟Google來聯繫嗎因為非常嚴重喔幾乎你打電子簽證、美簽、ESTA所有的關鍵字跳進去的前幾個\n都不是官方網站請問這個部分數位部要怎麼處理?跟委員報告這個部分我們很早就注意到我們也有跟AIT聯繫請來第一題如果可以對我要問你解決方案我們時間不夠AIT在他們的官網上也有說明他們不認為這個是違法\n說明說不是你不認為是違法但是問題是說你這東西實際上對我國的國民來說他21塊美金可以做的東西一大堆人被騙到變97塊你們是覺得無所謂就放任就好只要說明就好了那請問你具體的解決方式是什麼嗎不是AIT的問題我問你數位發展部的問題他今天是因為在google上面打了贊助廣告所以他的排名才這麼前面\n那這個部分我們有要做任何處理嗎?還是要放任他們讓Google上面一直推波?我們會請Google跟IT強化這件事情那請問具體你們希望什麼時候可以解決這個狀況跟問題嗎?我沒有辦法要求AIT沒有辦法做我說的是Google你要跟我扯AIT要做什麼呢?今天他們是登了Google的廣告嘛所以他的關鍵字排行在很前面嘛所以我們有沒有可能跟Google聯繫說這個背包要下架嗎?我們可以告訴Google聯繫這個事情因為還是假冒AIT啊\n主席\n還是你覺得不是跟你無關那請問跟誰有關跟所有人都沒有關係政府都不用管我們就大家一大堆人收97塊美金是這個意思嗎沒有我沒有這樣說我只是說那請問你剛剛講說你們會跟Google談什麼時候會談好什麼時候會有進度什麼時候會把這些贊助廣告要求他們不能給\n好,謝謝。\n謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.510 --> 00:05.523\n經管會、警政署、速發部速發部理事長\n\n00:16.794 --> 00:31.888\n委員五安五安那個數發部剛剛您說呢是負責管電商嘛對吧是那我們來看一下最常見的幾種詐騙類型裡面喔第一個這叫做貨到付款貨到付款呢包含是你看有的人是預購口罩\n\n00:33.189 --> 00:53.592\n然後買了之後他收到了相關的訊息說已經到貨了到貨之後取款以後拿到的東西跟裡面是不一樣的甚至很誇張的像網拍詐騙的部分沒有拿到貨或拿到錯誤的貨連我們全台北市最精明的台北市議員社民黨的這個苗博雅都買手機被詐騙\n\n00:54.813 --> 01:16.981\n那請問我看到你們想說所謂的要提高強化資安防護能力可是呢你裡面累計只有協助到88家公會的會員演練然後呢你說導入這個銀馬技術到目前只有5家業者要加入積極辦理各自外洩只有結案了52家行政相關的作業只有針對24家業者辦理28次行政檢查\n\n01:21.842 --> 01:44.314\n請問你覺得夠嗎?現在為什麼我們碰到至愛難行的原因是什麼?為什麼加數這麼少?我們知道網路上的店家千千萬萬種可是我們速發部有配合的有協助處理的只有非常少數的尤其他既然是詐騙他幹嘛跟你合作所以請問這個問題你們現在所列表的處理方式是能夠解決的嗎?\n\n01:46.124 --> 01:47.205\n數字往下降價了多少的百分比?\n\n02:03.969 --> 02:29.377\n應該是說我們已經從這個165的這個高風險賣場的名單離開了,就是這些純電商的賣場。對啊,我問你說你們下降下降了多少百分比啊?這個數字可能要請行政局,因為我不是報案經理。好,那你又叫我看報告,你報告裡面又寫得不清楚,叫你回答你又回答不清楚,是不是要檢討一下?這個應該是很正常的主席,這應該是很正常的一個很簡單的問題,他們竟然回答不出來,來繼續說。\n\n02:30.957 --> 02:49.628\n您剛剛講的部分我們是從源頭管理也就是說我們從電商的部分過去可能會比較被詬病的是說你在買東西的時候很快就會收到有詐騙表示你的個資從電商端就出去了所以我們現在從電商端開始那剛剛講的5家其實都是國內的主要的電商市佔率大概加起來已經超過七八成所以我們是先從大的開始\n\n02:51.769 --> 03:10.341\n我們會不會針對第三方支付加強抽查?從過去抽查的比率一年來說第三方支付平台交易規模20億以下歸數位不管1.4萬家業者我們每年過去抽查幾家?\n\n03:11.141 --> 03:32.450\n跟委員報告這個1.4萬家是他有登記因為過去第三方支付不是特許行業那沒有這個現在我們是用登錄字所以登錄字的概念是每一家都要檢查所以等於是百分之百去年我們到目前為止來81家81家都檢查所以81家就是百分之百\n\n03:33.117 --> 04:00.893\n因為要登錄才能營業,如果不登錄他就沒有虛擬賬號,他就幾乎沒有辦法營業了。好,所以你們在抽查的部分裡面,你們不是針對每一家業者去抽?是,他反過來要來跟我們申報了。他反過來跟你申報,他沒申報的部分你沒有...他就拿不到銀行給他的虛擬賬號,他沒辦法營業。OK,那這個部分的抽查可能都還要再加強,針對第三方支付。所以我要問那個投資詐騙的部分法務部,那個IMB詐騙的部分請問現在目前調查進度到哪裡了?\n\n04:02.214 --> 04:03.997\n不好意思主席我剛剛沒有叫到法務部請法務部\n\n04:13.155 --> 04:42.090\n各位委員報告案B案子去年8月台北地檢有起訴之後這目前在台北地院審理當中好那這個是大家都很重視的案子請你們要盡快的去把事實釐清出來向社會做交代再來呢我要問這個有關於電子簽證這我也不知道你們誰管的自己認領一下因為現在詐騙太多元了電子簽證的部分你們知道現在如果要去美國我們辦電子簽證好了那如果我搜尋委員報告我們是電子簽章跟電子簽證不一樣\n\n04:42.830 --> 05:09.969\n不是啦我是在講所以你不要硬那麼快嘛你根本就不知道我問什麼人就說是我管的這莫名其妙嗎我在講的是說我們今天想要辦這個電子簽證的時候如果我今天其實還是數位部的啦我今天假設我打ESTA進去之後第一個跳出來的會是別人打贊助廣告的這個ESTAforUnitedStates這些網站它會假裝它自己是美國官方然後呢它每一個\n\n05:11.069 --> 05:30.241\n簽證他給你收97塊美金但如果你到了正確的平台就是21塊美金而已中間他還是會幫你辦但是呢中間的價差他就賺走了請問這個部分我們要如何處理要跟Google來聯繫嗎因為非常嚴重喔幾乎你打電子簽證、美簽、ESTA所有的關鍵字跳進去的前幾個\n\n05:32.082 --> 05:45.195\n都不是官方網站請問這個部分數位部要怎麼處理?跟委員報告這個部分我們很早就注意到我們也有跟AIT聯繫請來第一題如果可以對我要問你解決方案我們時間不夠AIT在他們的官網上也有說明他們不認為這個是違法\n\n05:47.204 --> 06:12.100\n說明說不是你不認為是違法但是問題是說你這東西實際上對我國的國民來說他21塊美金可以做的東西一大堆人被騙到變97塊你們是覺得無所謂就放任就好只要說明就好了那請問你具體的解決方式是什麼嗎不是AIT的問題我問你數位發展部的問題他今天是因為在google上面打了贊助廣告所以他的排名才這麼前面\n\n06:12.680 --> 06:42.163\n那這個部分我們有要做任何處理嗎?還是要放任他們讓Google上面一直推波?我們會請Google跟IT強化這件事情那請問具體你們希望什麼時候可以解決這個狀況跟問題嗎?我沒有辦法要求AIT沒有辦法做我說的是Google你要跟我扯AIT要做什麼呢?今天他們是登了Google的廣告嘛所以他的關鍵字排行在很前面嘛所以我們有沒有可能跟Google聯繫說這個背包要下架嗎?我們可以告訴Google聯繫這個事情因為還是假冒AIT啊\n\n06:42.583 --> 06:42.783\n主席\n\n07:00.387 --> 07:15.398\n還是你覺得不是跟你無關那請問跟誰有關跟所有人都沒有關係政府都不用管我們就大家一大堆人收97塊美金是這個意思嗎沒有我沒有這樣說我只是說那請問你剛剛講說你們會跟Google談什麼時候會談好什麼時候會有進度什麼時候會把這些贊助廣告要求他們不能給\n\n07:18.260 --> 07:18.280\n好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.51,"end":5.523,"text":"經管會、警政署、速發部速發部理事長"},{"start":16.794,"end":31.888,"text":"委員五安五安那個數發部剛剛您說呢是負責管電商嘛對吧是那我們來看一下最常見的幾種詐騙類型裡面喔第一個這叫做貨到付款貨到付款呢包含是你看有的人是預購口罩"},{"start":33.189,"end":53.592,"text":"然後買了之後他收到了相關的訊息說已經到貨了到貨之後取款以後拿到的東西跟裡面是不一樣的甚至很誇張的像網拍詐騙的部分沒有拿到貨或拿到錯誤的貨連我們全台北市最精明的台北市議員社民黨的這個苗博雅都買手機被詐騙"},{"start":54.813,"end":76.981,"text":"那請問我看到你們想說所謂的要提高強化資安防護能力可是呢你裡面累計只有協助到88家公會的會員演練然後呢你說導入這個銀馬技術到目前只有5家業者要加入積極辦理各自外洩只有結案了52家行政相關的作業只有針對24家業者辦理28次行政檢查"},{"start":81.842,"end":104.314,"text":"請問你覺得夠嗎?現在為什麼我們碰到至愛難行的原因是什麼?為什麼加數這麼少?我們知道網路上的店家千千萬萬種可是我們速發部有配合的有協助處理的只有非常少數的尤其他既然是詐騙他幹嘛跟你合作所以請問這個問題你們現在所列表的處理方式是能夠解決的嗎?"},{"start":106.124,"end":107.205,"text":"數字往下降價了多少的百分比?"},{"start":123.969,"end":149.377,"text":"應該是說我們已經從這個165的這個高風險賣場的名單離開了,就是這些純電商的賣場。對啊,我問你說你們下降下降了多少百分比啊?這個數字可能要請行政局,因為我不是報案經理。好,那你又叫我看報告,你報告裡面又寫得不清楚,叫你回答你又回答不清楚,是不是要檢討一下?這個應該是很正常的主席,這應該是很正常的一個很簡單的問題,他們竟然回答不出來,來繼續說。"},{"start":150.957,"end":169.628,"text":"您剛剛講的部分我們是從源頭管理也就是說我們從電商的部分過去可能會比較被詬病的是說你在買東西的時候很快就會收到有詐騙表示你的個資從電商端就出去了所以我們現在從電商端開始那剛剛講的5家其實都是國內的主要的電商市佔率大概加起來已經超過七八成所以我們是先從大的開始"},{"start":171.769,"end":190.341,"text":"我們會不會針對第三方支付加強抽查?從過去抽查的比率一年來說第三方支付平台交易規模20億以下歸數位不管1.4萬家業者我們每年過去抽查幾家?"},{"start":191.141,"end":212.45,"text":"跟委員報告這個1.4萬家是他有登記因為過去第三方支付不是特許行業那沒有這個現在我們是用登錄字所以登錄字的概念是每一家都要檢查所以等於是百分之百去年我們到目前為止來81家81家都檢查所以81家就是百分之百"},{"start":213.117,"end":240.893,"text":"因為要登錄才能營業,如果不登錄他就沒有虛擬賬號,他就幾乎沒有辦法營業了。好,所以你們在抽查的部分裡面,你們不是針對每一家業者去抽?是,他反過來要來跟我們申報了。他反過來跟你申報,他沒申報的部分你沒有...他就拿不到銀行給他的虛擬賬號,他沒辦法營業。OK,那這個部分的抽查可能都還要再加強,針對第三方支付。所以我要問那個投資詐騙的部分法務部,那個IMB詐騙的部分請問現在目前調查進度到哪裡了?"},{"start":242.214,"end":243.997,"text":"不好意思主席我剛剛沒有叫到法務部請法務部"},{"start":253.155,"end":282.09,"text":"各位委員報告案B案子去年8月台北地檢有起訴之後這目前在台北地院審理當中好那這個是大家都很重視的案子請你們要盡快的去把事實釐清出來向社會做交代再來呢我要問這個有關於電子簽證這我也不知道你們誰管的自己認領一下因為現在詐騙太多元了電子簽證的部分你們知道現在如果要去美國我們辦電子簽證好了那如果我搜尋委員報告我們是電子簽章跟電子簽證不一樣"},{"start":282.83,"end":309.969,"text":"不是啦 我是在講所以你不要硬那麼快嘛你根本就不知道我問什麼人就說是我管的這莫名其妙嗎我在講的是說我們今天想要辦這個電子簽證的時候如果我今天其實還是數位部的啦我今天假設我打ESTA進去之後第一個跳出來的會是別人打贊助廣告的這個ESTA for United States這些網站它會假裝它自己是美國官方然後呢它每一個"},{"start":311.069,"end":330.241,"text":"簽證他給你收97塊美金但如果你到了正確的平台就是21塊美金而已中間他還是會幫你辦但是呢中間的價差他就賺走了請問這個部分我們要如何處理要跟Google來聯繫嗎因為非常嚴重喔幾乎你打電子簽證、美簽、ESTA所有的關鍵字跳進去的前幾個"},{"start":332.082,"end":345.195,"text":"都不是官方網站請問這個部分數位部要怎麼處理?跟委員報告這個部分我們很早就注意到我們也有跟AIT聯繫請來第一題如果可以對我要問你解決方案我們時間不夠AIT在他們的官網上也有說明他們不認為這個是違法"},{"start":347.204,"end":372.1,"text":"說明說不是你不認為是違法但是問題是說你這東西實際上對我國的國民來說他21塊美金可以做的東西一大堆人被騙到變97塊你們是覺得無所謂就放任就好只要說明就好了那請問你具體的解決方式是什麼嗎不是AIT的問題我問你數位發展部的問題他今天是因為在google上面打了贊助廣告所以他的排名才這麼前面"},{"start":372.68,"end":402.163,"text":"那這個部分我們有要做任何處理嗎?還是要放任他們讓Google上面一直推波?我們會請Google跟IT強化這件事情那請問具體你們希望什麼時候可以解決這個狀況跟問題嗎?我沒有辦法要求AIT沒有辦法做我說的是Google你要跟我扯AIT要做什麼呢?今天他們是登了Google的廣告嘛所以他的關鍵字排行在很前面嘛所以我們有沒有可能跟Google聯繫說這個背包要下架嗎?我們可以告訴Google聯繫這個事情因為還是假冒AIT啊"},{"start":402.583,"end":402.783,"text":"主席"},{"start":420.387,"end":435.398,"text":"還是你覺得不是跟你無關那請問跟誰有關跟所有人都沒有關係政府都不用管我們就大家一大堆人收97塊美金是這個意思嗎沒有我沒有這樣說我只是說那請問你剛剛講說你們會跟Google談什麼時候會談好什麼時候會有進度什麼時候會把這些贊助廣告要求他們不能給"},{"start":438.26,"end":438.28,"text":"好,謝謝。"},{"start":473.473,"end":473.933,"text":"謝謝"}]}}}}