{"id":150407,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150407","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b6388dd906d6e0a768506765f624e20d0f8ba9b0039caa7a6ee80647815cb38f55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"13:29:46 - 13:36:46","影片長度":"00:07:00","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":420,"end_time":"2024-03-25T13:36:46+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T13:29:46+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1493,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（13時29分）謝謝主席。有請黃主委。"],["主席：請黃主委。"],["林委員楚茵：還有法務部黃常次。"],["主席：請黃次長。"],["林委員楚茵：還有銀行局莊局長。"],["主席：請莊局長。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員午安。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：大家辛苦了。因為打詐這件事情是全民所關注的，所以到現在都一點半了，包括主席在內都還沒辦法休息，我儘量把握時間。有關打詐的部分，其實我滿開心，就是現在各部會都動起來，但我相信不論是法務部或金管會都知道，一旦要打詐，帳戶是非常重要的，根據現在的洗錢防制告誡，我們都知道人頭帳戶已經成為打擊詐團非常重要的依據。由於現在新修訂的法律是以人為單位，所以我想請教金管會主委，如果現在有一個A公司，他們已經被告誡了，認為這個公司的帳戶有問題，那麼A公司的負責人還能不能成立其他的帳戶？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前的管理好像沒有及於公司，所以跟委員報告，報告第15頁有特別強調，我們開始要加強企業戶開立帳戶的審查機制。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝你們有注意到這個問題。因為以人為主的時候，我們知道，現在人跟人都被盯得很緊；但如果我是一個公司的負責人，我現在用公司帳戶，我的A帳戶發生問題之後，我再去申請B帳戶跟C帳戶，依舊可以逍遙法外。我們很開心金管會現在有注意到這樣的問題。","接著要問法務部，在這整個過程當中，如果這個負責人名下的帳戶遭受到告誡的時候，那麼他現有的其他已經存在的帳戶會怎麼樣處理，或是去做怎麼樣的限制嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：沒有，如果他是被告誡的人，一旦進入第十五條之二第六項的這個辦法去處理的話，包括他本身所有的其他帳戶也一樣會受到限縮。"],["林委員楚茵：言下之意就是已經開戶成立的都會被限縮？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["林委員楚茵：現在就變成金管會這裡要特別注意，不要再讓他開新的？"],["黃次長謀信：這個辦法裡面……"],["林委員楚茵：現在金管會跟法務部或相關的單位，兩邊有聯絡跟聯繫嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：不僅，其實它的辦法裡面就規定清楚了，他未來新開戶都會受到限制的。"],["林委員楚茵：所以這部分會直接跟金管會有一個規定上的交流、交通跟聯絡？也就是說，一旦曾經進入第十五條之二第六項，他的帳戶被限縮功能之後，不僅原有的帳戶會被限制，他的新帳戶也不能開？確定？"],["黃次長謀信：就是銀行第一線可以做一些處理，有些帳戶是不能開的，譬如虛擬帳戶就不能夠再開，要關閉掉；實體的銀行帳戶，法規裡面也有一些規範，可以不讓他開。"],["林委員楚茵：好，主委要補充嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：請委員給我們一點機會，讓局長跟你報告我們最近做的事情。"],["林委員楚茵：好。"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員，有關告誡戶，到底是怎麼執行，我們會跟法務部再洽談；至於金管會，我們之前也注意到公司戶被列為警示帳戶的這個問題，所以已經請銀行公會去研議。如果這個公司戶已經是警示帳戶，這個負責人再去開其他新的戶頭時，到底要做怎麼樣的監控，我們正在請公會研議。"],["林委員楚茵：通常警示帳戶的存在有很多的狀況，不一定真的是所謂的詐騙案，但它可能就會流於一個破洞或破口，希望銀行局可以跟銀行公會多做瞭解；另外就是掃蕩的時候，當然金管會也做了很多，我也必須給予肯定。但是在這樣的過程中，銀行打詐，我們也要有一些新招，包括防止所謂的人頭帳戶。我對前面幾項都沒有意見，不過對資本額比較低的小企業，或者它是共用辦公室，我們知道，新型態的營運模式有很多的樣態，這個部分是不是也能夠有更明確的樣態規範？因為我在PTT看到有一些行員說，現在好像變成他們是要去做決定的那個人，對於這樣的樣態，若是過於籠統模糊的話，就會把一人資本的小公司，也打入人頭帳戶。這個部分請主委說明。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，也就是過猶不及都要很小心。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為現在的公司登記制，其實就是一個形式要件，如果大家對這部分能夠共同合作，應該就能夠讓這些問題更加釐清，包括局長剛剛跟您報告請公會研議的部分，我們將在跨部會平臺上來討論。"],["林委員楚茵：好！本席特別點出這個部分，就是我們現在已經大概瞭解到詐騙集團的樣態，最後會需要一個處理這些金流、這些資金的帳戶，如果公司成為他們可以從這個方向去開設各個人頭帳戶，那麼這個部分確實要把它防堵起來；可是對小型、微型的公司又該如何保障，讓他們不會在開戶或設立帳戶當中遭到額外的困擾，這個部分恐怕就要請金管會、法務部相關單位，大家一起來做橫向的聯繫。"],["黃主任委員天牧：可能要從那種疑似的態樣中去歸類。"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["黃主任委員天牧：才比較不會傷及無辜。"],["林委員楚茵：好，有關銀行局跟銀行公會所做的整體樣態的協商，或是瞭解，或是訂定法規，大概要訂多久的期程？"],["莊局長琇媛：公會現在已經有一些初步的規範，可是我們覺得有必要再精進，是不是再給我們一個月到兩個月的時間？"],["林委員楚茵：好，更進一步的規範出來時，再提供給財委會跟本席辦公室。謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：下一位質詢請林思銘委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":298,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-5","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","顏寬恒","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","謝衣鳯","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.005}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:07,920\n主席有請黃朱衛法務部黃長次還有我們的銀行局莊局長莊局長請\n\n2\n00:00:15,552 --> 00:00:40,332\n好,大家辛苦了喔,因為這個打詐這件事情全民關注喔所以這個一路到現在包括連主席在內喔這個1點半都還沒有辦法休息我儘量把握時間有關於打詐的部分其實我蠻開心就是現在整個可以說各部會都動起來但是呢我相信不論是法務部或者是金管會都知道了這個一旦打詐這個錢要來成立的時候賬戶是非常重要的\n\n3\n00:00:43,334 --> 00:01:01,683\n但是如果根據現在洗錢防治的告誡我們都知道人頭賬戶事實上現在已經成為這個詐團也就是打詐集團他們非常重要的一個依據如果根據現在新修訂的法律的話是以人為單位所以我就要先就教一下這個金管會主委\n\n4\n00:01:02,884 --> 00:01:15,664\n如果說現在有一個公司是A公司那麼他們的公司已經被告誡了認為他的公司的這個帳戶有問題那麼這個A公司的負責人他還能不能成立其他的帳戶\n\n5\n00:01:17,950 --> 00:01:31,170\n目前的管理好像沒有沒有急於這個公式所以跟委員報告我們在15頁這邊有特別要強調我們開始要加強企業戶開地商戶的審查機制好因為謝謝你們有注意到這個問題因為你以人為\n\n6\n00:01:33,974 --> 00:01:59,007\n主的時候我們知道現在人跟人都被盯得很緊但是如果說我身為一個公司的負責人我先用公司帳戶我這個A帳戶發生問題之後我再去申請B帳戶跟C帳戶那麼他依舊逍遙法外所以說很開心金管會先有注意到這樣的一個問題那麼我就問法務部所以在這整體的過程當中那麼所以這個副城的名下如果他的\n\n7\n00:01:59,987 --> 00:02:21,033\n倉戶遭到告誡的時候那麼他現有的其他已經存在的帳戶那麼會怎麼樣處理或是怎麼樣去做一個限制嗎沒有他這個如果他是被告誡的人的話他一旦進入了15條之2第6項的這個辦法去處理的話包括他本身所有的其他帳戶也一樣會受到限縮\n\n8\n00:02:21,653 --> 00:02:46,429\n好,也就是言下之意已經開戶成立的都會被限縮但是現在就變成是金管會這裡要特別注意的是不要再讓他開新的兩邊其實是有一個現在金管會跟法務部或相關的單位是有一個聯絡跟聯繫嗎?不行,其實他的辦法的規定裡面就規定明清楚了他未來新開戶都會受到限制的\n\n9\n00:02:46,749 --> 00:03:10,560\n好,所以這個部分是會直接跟金管會有一個規定上面的交流、交通跟聯絡嗎?表示說他一旦他曾經進入了15條之2還是15條之2的第6項成為所謂的帳戶被限縮功能之後他原有的會被限制他的新帳戶也不能開\n\n10\n00:03:11,300 --> 00:03:12,701\n主委要補充嗎?好\n\n11\n00:03:34,649 --> 00:03:59,803\n報告委員就是剛剛告誡戶的部分的話到底怎麼執行我們會跟法務部這邊再洽談那至於金管會這邊的時候我們之前其實也有注意到有公司戶被列為警示帳戶的這個相關的問題所以現在我們已經請銀行公會去研議說如果這個公司戶已經是警示帳戶那這個負責人他再去開其他的戶頭或者是其他的\n\n12\n00:04:00,503 --> 00:04:03,045\n但是他可能就會流於一個破洞或破口我希望銀行局這裡可以跟銀行公會來做了解但另外一個就是說少盪的時候我們當然\n\n13\n00:04:23,824 --> 00:04:46,536\n儘管會做了很多我也必須要予以肯定但是在這樣的過程當中我們銀行打造我們有一些新招包括就是防止所謂的人頭賬戶那麼當然前面的幾項我都沒有意見不過有關於這個資本額比較低的小企業或者是說它是共用辦公室但是我們知道新型態的營運模式當中有很多的樣態\n\n14\n00:04:47,637 --> 00:05:06,430\n所以這個部分是不是也能夠有更明確的樣態的規範因為我在PTT看到現在有一些行員會說好像變成他們要去做決定的那樣的一個人那這樣的樣態如果過於龍頭模糊的時候就會把所謂一人資本的小公司好像也打成了人頭賬戶這個部分來主委\n\n15\n00:05:09,097 --> 00:05:31,926\n對委員其實這也就是過猶不及都要很小心那我覺得當然因為我們現在的公司登記制其實就是一個形式要件了所以這部分大家如果能夠共同合作能夠讓這些問題能夠更釐清我想包括剛剛局長跟您報告的那個工會的研議那我們跨部會在這個平台上再做討論好\n\n16\n00:05:33,627 --> 00:05:48,597\n本席特別點出這個部分就是我們都知道現在已經了解到大概詐騙集團的樣態最後他會需要一個處理這些金流這些資金的這樣一個帳戶那麼公司如果成為一個他們可以\n\n17\n00:05:49,958 --> 00:06:12,387\n有這個方向去開設各個人頭帳戶那確實這個要把它防堵起來可是呢對於小型微型的公司又如何保障讓他們不會成為說他們在開戶或設立帳戶當中又變成額外的困擾那這個部分恐怕就要有請金管會、法務部相關的單位要大家一起來做一個連向的橫向的聯繫\n\n18\n00:06:14,212 --> 00:06:17,953\n有關於銀行局這裡跟銀行公會的這整體的樣態的協商或者是了解或是訂定法規大概要訂多久的期程?\n\n19\n00:06:32,883 --> 00:06:34,004\n林思明、林偉文\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t7920\t主席有請黃朱衛法務部黃長次還有我們的銀行局莊局長莊局長請\n15552\t40332\t好,大家辛苦了喔,因為這個打詐這件事情全民關注喔所以這個一路到現在包括連主席在內喔這個1點半都還沒有辦法休息我儘量把握時間有關於打詐的部分其實我蠻開心就是現在整個可以說各部會都動起來但是呢我相信不論是法務部或者是金管會都知道了這個一旦打詐這個錢要來成立的時候賬戶是非常重要的\n43334\t61683\t但是如果根據現在洗錢防治的告誡我們都知道人頭賬戶事實上現在已經成為這個詐團也就是打詐集團他們非常重要的一個依據如果根據現在新修訂的法律的話是以人為單位所以我就要先就教一下這個金管會主委\n62884\t75664\t如果說現在有一個公司是A公司那麼他們的公司已經被告誡了認為他的公司的這個帳戶有問題那麼這個A公司的負責人他還能不能成立其他的帳戶\n77950\t91170\t目前的管理好像沒有沒有急於這個公式所以跟委員報告我們在15頁這邊有特別要強調我們開始要加強企業戶開地商戶的審查機制好因為謝謝你們有注意到這個問題因為你以人為\n93974\t119007\t主的時候我們知道現在人跟人都被盯得很緊但是如果說我身為一個公司的負責人我先用公司帳戶我這個A帳戶發生問題之後我再去申請B帳戶跟C帳戶那麼他依舊逍遙法外所以說很開心金管會先有注意到這樣的一個問題那麼我就問法務部所以在這整體的過程當中那麼所以這個副城的名下如果他的\n119987\t141033\t倉戶遭到告誡的時候那麼他現有的其他已經存在的帳戶那麼會怎麼樣處理或是怎麼樣去做一個限制嗎沒有他這個如果他是被告誡的人的話他一旦進入了15條之2第6項的這個辦法去處理的話包括他本身所有的其他帳戶也一樣會受到限縮\n141653\t166429\t好,也就是言下之意已經開戶成立的都會被限縮但是現在就變成是金管會這裡要特別注意的是不要再讓他開新的兩邊其實是有一個現在金管會跟法務部或相關的單位是有一個聯絡跟聯繫嗎?不行,其實他的辦法的規定裡面就規定明清楚了他未來新開戶都會受到限制的\n166749\t190560\t好,所以這個部分是會直接跟金管會有一個規定上面的交流、交通跟聯絡嗎?表示說他一旦他曾經進入了15條之2還是15條之2的第6項成為所謂的帳戶被限縮功能之後他原有的會被限制他的新帳戶也不能開\n191300\t192701\t主委要補充嗎?好\n214649\t239803\t報告委員就是剛剛告誡戶的部分的話到底怎麼執行我們會跟法務部這邊再洽談那至於金管會這邊的時候我們之前其實也有注意到有公司戶被列為警示帳戶的這個相關的問題所以現在我們已經請銀行公會去研議說如果這個公司戶已經是警示帳戶那這個負責人他再去開其他的戶頭或者是其他的\n240503\t243045\t但是他可能就會流於一個破洞或破口我希望銀行局這裡可以跟銀行公會來做了解但另外一個就是說少盪的時候我們當然\n263824\t286536\t儘管會做了很多我也必須要予以肯定但是在這樣的過程當中我們銀行打造我們有一些新招包括就是防止所謂的人頭賬戶那麼當然前面的幾項我都沒有意見不過有關於這個資本額比較低的小企業或者是說它是共用辦公室但是我們知道新型態的營運模式當中有很多的樣態\n287637\t306430\t所以這個部分是不是也能夠有更明確的樣態的規範因為我在PTT看到現在有一些行員會說好像變成他們要去做決定的那樣的一個人那這樣的樣態如果過於龍頭模糊的時候就會把所謂一人資本的小公司好像也打成了人頭賬戶這個部分 來 主委\n309097\t331926\t對委員其實這也就是過猶不及都要很小心那我覺得當然因為我們現在的公司登記制其實就是一個形式要件了所以這部分大家如果能夠共同合作能夠讓這些問題能夠更釐清我想包括剛剛局長跟您報告的那個工會的研議那我們跨部會在這個平台上再做討論好\n333627\t348597\t本席特別點出這個部分就是我們都知道現在已經了解到大概詐騙集團的樣態最後他會需要一個處理這些金流這些資金的這樣一個帳戶那麼公司如果成為一個他們可以\n349958\t372387\t有這個方向去開設各個人頭帳戶那確實這個要把它防堵起來可是呢對於小型微型的公司又如何保障讓他們不會成為說他們在開戶或設立帳戶當中又變成額外的困擾那這個部分恐怕就要有請金管會、法務部相關的單位要大家一起來做一個連向的橫向的聯繫\n374212\t377953\t有關於銀行局這裡跟銀行公會的這整體的樣態的協商或者是了解或是訂定法規大概要訂多久的期程?\n392883\t394004\t林思明、林偉文\n","txt":"主席有請黃朱衛法務部黃長次還有我們的銀行局莊局長莊局長請\n好,大家辛苦了喔,因為這個打詐這件事情全民關注喔所以這個一路到現在包括連主席在內喔這個1點半都還沒有辦法休息我儘量把握時間有關於打詐的部分其實我蠻開心就是現在整個可以說各部會都動起來但是呢我相信不論是法務部或者是金管會都知道了這個一旦打詐這個錢要來成立的時候賬戶是非常重要的\n但是如果根據現在洗錢防治的告誡我們都知道人頭賬戶事實上現在已經成為這個詐團也就是打詐集團他們非常重要的一個依據如果根據現在新修訂的法律的話是以人為單位所以我就要先就教一下這個金管會主委\n如果說現在有一個公司是A公司那麼他們的公司已經被告誡了認為他的公司的這個帳戶有問題那麼這個A公司的負責人他還能不能成立其他的帳戶\n目前的管理好像沒有沒有急於這個公式所以跟委員報告我們在15頁這邊有特別要強調我們開始要加強企業戶開地商戶的審查機制好因為謝謝你們有注意到這個問題因為你以人為\n主的時候我們知道現在人跟人都被盯得很緊但是如果說我身為一個公司的負責人我先用公司帳戶我這個A帳戶發生問題之後我再去申請B帳戶跟C帳戶那麼他依舊逍遙法外所以說很開心金管會先有注意到這樣的一個問題那麼我就問法務部所以在這整體的過程當中那麼所以這個副城的名下如果他的\n倉戶遭到告誡的時候那麼他現有的其他已經存在的帳戶那麼會怎麼樣處理或是怎麼樣去做一個限制嗎沒有他這個如果他是被告誡的人的話他一旦進入了15條之2第6項的這個辦法去處理的話包括他本身所有的其他帳戶也一樣會受到限縮\n好,也就是言下之意已經開戶成立的都會被限縮但是現在就變成是金管會這裡要特別注意的是不要再讓他開新的兩邊其實是有一個現在金管會跟法務部或相關的單位是有一個聯絡跟聯繫嗎?不行,其實他的辦法的規定裡面就規定明清楚了他未來新開戶都會受到限制的\n好,所以這個部分是會直接跟金管會有一個規定上面的交流、交通跟聯絡嗎?表示說他一旦他曾經進入了15條之2還是15條之2的第6項成為所謂的帳戶被限縮功能之後他原有的會被限制他的新帳戶也不能開\n主委要補充嗎?好\n報告委員就是剛剛告誡戶的部分的話到底怎麼執行我們會跟法務部這邊再洽談那至於金管會這邊的時候我們之前其實也有注意到有公司戶被列為警示帳戶的這個相關的問題所以現在我們已經請銀行公會去研議說如果這個公司戶已經是警示帳戶那這個負責人他再去開其他的戶頭或者是其他的\n但是他可能就會流於一個破洞或破口我希望銀行局這裡可以跟銀行公會來做了解但另外一個就是說少盪的時候我們當然\n儘管會做了很多我也必須要予以肯定但是在這樣的過程當中我們銀行打造我們有一些新招包括就是防止所謂的人頭賬戶那麼當然前面的幾項我都沒有意見不過有關於這個資本額比較低的小企業或者是說它是共用辦公室但是我們知道新型態的營運模式當中有很多的樣態\n所以這個部分是不是也能夠有更明確的樣態的規範因為我在PTT看到現在有一些行員會說好像變成他們要去做決定的那樣的一個人那這樣的樣態如果過於龍頭模糊的時候就會把所謂一人資本的小公司好像也打成了人頭賬戶這個部分 來 主委\n對委員其實這也就是過猶不及都要很小心那我覺得當然因為我們現在的公司登記制其實就是一個形式要件了所以這部分大家如果能夠共同合作能夠讓這些問題能夠更釐清我想包括剛剛局長跟您報告的那個工會的研議那我們跨部會在這個平台上再做討論好\n本席特別點出這個部分就是我們都知道現在已經了解到大概詐騙集團的樣態最後他會需要一個處理這些金流這些資金的這樣一個帳戶那麼公司如果成為一個他們可以\n有這個方向去開設各個人頭帳戶那確實這個要把它防堵起來可是呢對於小型微型的公司又如何保障讓他們不會成為說他們在開戶或設立帳戶當中又變成額外的困擾那這個部分恐怕就要有請金管會、法務部相關的單位要大家一起來做一個連向的橫向的聯繫\n有關於銀行局這裡跟銀行公會的這整體的樣態的協商或者是了解或是訂定法規大概要訂多久的期程?\n林思明、林偉文\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:07.920\n主席有請黃朱衛法務部黃長次還有我們的銀行局莊局長莊局長請\n\n00:15.552 --> 00:40.332\n好,大家辛苦了喔,因為這個打詐這件事情全民關注喔所以這個一路到現在包括連主席在內喔這個1點半都還沒有辦法休息我儘量把握時間有關於打詐的部分其實我蠻開心就是現在整個可以說各部會都動起來但是呢我相信不論是法務部或者是金管會都知道了這個一旦打詐這個錢要來成立的時候賬戶是非常重要的\n\n00:43.334 --> 01:01.683\n但是如果根據現在洗錢防治的告誡我們都知道人頭賬戶事實上現在已經成為這個詐團也就是打詐集團他們非常重要的一個依據如果根據現在新修訂的法律的話是以人為單位所以我就要先就教一下這個金管會主委\n\n01:02.884 --> 01:15.664\n如果說現在有一個公司是A公司那麼他們的公司已經被告誡了認為他的公司的這個帳戶有問題那麼這個A公司的負責人他還能不能成立其他的帳戶\n\n01:17.950 --> 01:31.170\n目前的管理好像沒有沒有急於這個公式所以跟委員報告我們在15頁這邊有特別要強調我們開始要加強企業戶開地商戶的審查機制好因為謝謝你們有注意到這個問題因為你以人為\n\n01:33.974 --> 01:59.007\n主的時候我們知道現在人跟人都被盯得很緊但是如果說我身為一個公司的負責人我先用公司帳戶我這個A帳戶發生問題之後我再去申請B帳戶跟C帳戶那麼他依舊逍遙法外所以說很開心金管會先有注意到這樣的一個問題那麼我就問法務部所以在這整體的過程當中那麼所以這個副城的名下如果他的\n\n01:59.987 --> 02:21.033\n倉戶遭到告誡的時候那麼他現有的其他已經存在的帳戶那麼會怎麼樣處理或是怎麼樣去做一個限制嗎沒有他這個如果他是被告誡的人的話他一旦進入了15條之2第6項的這個辦法去處理的話包括他本身所有的其他帳戶也一樣會受到限縮\n\n02:21.653 --> 02:46.429\n好,也就是言下之意已經開戶成立的都會被限縮但是現在就變成是金管會這裡要特別注意的是不要再讓他開新的兩邊其實是有一個現在金管會跟法務部或相關的單位是有一個聯絡跟聯繫嗎?不行,其實他的辦法的規定裡面就規定明清楚了他未來新開戶都會受到限制的\n\n02:46.749 --> 03:10.560\n好,所以這個部分是會直接跟金管會有一個規定上面的交流、交通跟聯絡嗎?表示說他一旦他曾經進入了15條之2還是15條之2的第6項成為所謂的帳戶被限縮功能之後他原有的會被限制他的新帳戶也不能開\n\n03:11.300 --> 03:12.701\n主委要補充嗎?好\n\n03:34.649 --> 03:59.803\n報告委員就是剛剛告誡戶的部分的話到底怎麼執行我們會跟法務部這邊再洽談那至於金管會這邊的時候我們之前其實也有注意到有公司戶被列為警示帳戶的這個相關的問題所以現在我們已經請銀行公會去研議說如果這個公司戶已經是警示帳戶那這個負責人他再去開其他的戶頭或者是其他的\n\n04:00.503 --> 04:03.045\n但是他可能就會流於一個破洞或破口我希望銀行局這裡可以跟銀行公會來做了解但另外一個就是說少盪的時候我們當然\n\n04:23.824 --> 04:46.536\n儘管會做了很多我也必須要予以肯定但是在這樣的過程當中我們銀行打造我們有一些新招包括就是防止所謂的人頭賬戶那麼當然前面的幾項我都沒有意見不過有關於這個資本額比較低的小企業或者是說它是共用辦公室但是我們知道新型態的營運模式當中有很多的樣態\n\n04:47.637 --> 05:06.430\n所以這個部分是不是也能夠有更明確的樣態的規範因為我在PTT看到現在有一些行員會說好像變成他們要去做決定的那樣的一個人那這樣的樣態如果過於龍頭模糊的時候就會把所謂一人資本的小公司好像也打成了人頭賬戶這個部分來主委\n\n05:09.097 --> 05:31.926\n對委員其實這也就是過猶不及都要很小心那我覺得當然因為我們現在的公司登記制其實就是一個形式要件了所以這部分大家如果能夠共同合作能夠讓這些問題能夠更釐清我想包括剛剛局長跟您報告的那個工會的研議那我們跨部會在這個平台上再做討論好\n\n05:33.627 --> 05:48.597\n本席特別點出這個部分就是我們都知道現在已經了解到大概詐騙集團的樣態最後他會需要一個處理這些金流這些資金的這樣一個帳戶那麼公司如果成為一個他們可以\n\n05:49.958 --> 06:12.387\n有這個方向去開設各個人頭帳戶那確實這個要把它防堵起來可是呢對於小型微型的公司又如何保障讓他們不會成為說他們在開戶或設立帳戶當中又變成額外的困擾那這個部分恐怕就要有請金管會、法務部相關的單位要大家一起來做一個連向的橫向的聯繫\n\n06:14.212 --> 06:17.953\n有關於銀行局這裡跟銀行公會的這整體的樣態的協商或者是了解或是訂定法規大概要訂多久的期程?\n\n06:32.883 --> 06:34.004\n林思明、林偉文\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":7.92,"text":"主席有請黃朱衛法務部黃長次還有我們的銀行局莊局長莊局長請"},{"start":15.552,"end":40.332,"text":"好,大家辛苦了喔,因為這個打詐這件事情全民關注喔所以這個一路到現在包括連主席在內喔這個1點半都還沒有辦法休息我儘量把握時間有關於打詐的部分其實我蠻開心就是現在整個可以說各部會都動起來但是呢我相信不論是法務部或者是金管會都知道了這個一旦打詐這個錢要來成立的時候賬戶是非常重要的"},{"start":43.334,"end":61.683,"text":"但是如果根據現在洗錢防治的告誡我們都知道人頭賬戶事實上現在已經成為這個詐團也就是打詐集團他們非常重要的一個依據如果根據現在新修訂的法律的話是以人為單位所以我就要先就教一下這個金管會主委"},{"start":62.884,"end":75.664,"text":"如果說現在有一個公司是A公司那麼他們的公司已經被告誡了認為他的公司的這個帳戶有問題那麼這個A公司的負責人他還能不能成立其他的帳戶"},{"start":77.95,"end":91.17,"text":"目前的管理好像沒有沒有急於這個公式所以跟委員報告我們在15頁這邊有特別要強調我們開始要加強企業戶開地商戶的審查機制好因為謝謝你們有注意到這個問題因為你以人為"},{"start":93.974,"end":119.007,"text":"主的時候我們知道現在人跟人都被盯得很緊但是如果說我身為一個公司的負責人我先用公司帳戶我這個A帳戶發生問題之後我再去申請B帳戶跟C帳戶那麼他依舊逍遙法外所以說很開心金管會先有注意到這樣的一個問題那麼我就問法務部所以在這整體的過程當中那麼所以這個副城的名下如果他的"},{"start":119.987,"end":141.033,"text":"倉戶遭到告誡的時候那麼他現有的其他已經存在的帳戶那麼會怎麼樣處理或是怎麼樣去做一個限制嗎沒有他這個如果他是被告誡的人的話他一旦進入了15條之2第6項的這個辦法去處理的話包括他本身所有的其他帳戶也一樣會受到限縮"},{"start":141.653,"end":166.429,"text":"好,也就是言下之意已經開戶成立的都會被限縮但是現在就變成是金管會這裡要特別注意的是不要再讓他開新的兩邊其實是有一個現在金管會跟法務部或相關的單位是有一個聯絡跟聯繫嗎?不行,其實他的辦法的規定裡面就規定明清楚了他未來新開戶都會受到限制的"},{"start":166.749,"end":190.56,"text":"好,所以這個部分是會直接跟金管會有一個規定上面的交流、交通跟聯絡嗎?表示說他一旦他曾經進入了15條之2還是15條之2的第6項成為所謂的帳戶被限縮功能之後他原有的會被限制他的新帳戶也不能開"},{"start":191.3,"end":192.701,"text":"主委要補充嗎?好"},{"start":214.649,"end":239.803,"text":"報告委員就是剛剛告誡戶的部分的話到底怎麼執行我們會跟法務部這邊再洽談那至於金管會這邊的時候我們之前其實也有注意到有公司戶被列為警示帳戶的這個相關的問題所以現在我們已經請銀行公會去研議說如果這個公司戶已經是警示帳戶那這個負責人他再去開其他的戶頭或者是其他的"},{"start":240.503,"end":243.045,"text":"但是他可能就會流於一個破洞或破口我希望銀行局這裡可以跟銀行公會來做了解但另外一個就是說少盪的時候我們當然"},{"start":263.824,"end":286.536,"text":"儘管會做了很多我也必須要予以肯定但是在這樣的過程當中我們銀行打造我們有一些新招包括就是防止所謂的人頭賬戶那麼當然前面的幾項我都沒有意見不過有關於這個資本額比較低的小企業或者是說它是共用辦公室但是我們知道新型態的營運模式當中有很多的樣態"},{"start":287.637,"end":306.43,"text":"所以這個部分是不是也能夠有更明確的樣態的規範因為我在PTT看到現在有一些行員會說好像變成他們要去做決定的那樣的一個人那這樣的樣態如果過於龍頭模糊的時候就會把所謂一人資本的小公司好像也打成了人頭賬戶這個部分 來 主委"},{"start":309.097,"end":331.926,"text":"對委員其實這也就是過猶不及都要很小心那我覺得當然因為我們現在的公司登記制其實就是一個形式要件了所以這部分大家如果能夠共同合作能夠讓這些問題能夠更釐清我想包括剛剛局長跟您報告的那個工會的研議那我們跨部會在這個平台上再做討論好"},{"start":333.627,"end":348.597,"text":"本席特別點出這個部分就是我們都知道現在已經了解到大概詐騙集團的樣態最後他會需要一個處理這些金流這些資金的這樣一個帳戶那麼公司如果成為一個他們可以"},{"start":349.958,"end":372.387,"text":"有這個方向去開設各個人頭帳戶那確實這個要把它防堵起來可是呢對於小型微型的公司又如何保障讓他們不會成為說他們在開戶或設立帳戶當中又變成額外的困擾那這個部分恐怕就要有請金管會、法務部相關的單位要大家一起來做一個連向的橫向的聯繫"},{"start":374.212,"end":377.953,"text":"有關於銀行局這裡跟銀行公會的這整體的樣態的協商或者是了解或是訂定法規大概要訂多久的期程?"},{"start":392.883,"end":394.004,"text":"林思明、林偉文"}]}}}}