{"id":150408,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150408","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005bbcb96d4312eb21cb8506765f624e20d0f8ba9b0039caa7a68ac16dc2a4f820d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"13:36:53 - 13:45:25","影片長度":"00:08:32","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-5"},"date":"2024-03-25","duration":512,"end_time":"2024-03-25T13:45:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-25T13:36:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1531,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（13時36分）謝謝主席。請主席邀請法務部、內政部，通傳會副主委、內政部、金管會、數位部等代表都上來。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員午安。"],["林委員思銘：主委和各位次長大家午安。行政院在去年5月推出新世代打擊詐欺行動綱領1.5版，本席看到所匡列的預算，在112年編列了8.33億，113年編列了5.96億，合計14.29億的預算要來打詐，並且喊出上游清源減少受害者、下游清淤掃除詐騙集團！相較於行動綱領1.0版的經費只匡列1.28億，大概增加13.01億。但矛盾的是，我們看到去年一整年，國人被詐騙的金額累計高達88.78億元，創歷史新高；詐欺案件也高達3萬7,984件。另外，去年5月新草根影響力文教基金會公布的民調也顯示，有九成二的民眾接過詐欺電話。不管是在清除上游或是減少接觸的通流，或者減輕損害金流上面，看起來完全沒有效果。而監察院也在去年12月對行政院表示，政府打詐完全沒有有效的對策，這十幾億的預算，我們感覺就好像丟進海中，沒有激起任何的漣漪。","所以，我首先要詢問的是，我們這十幾億的預算中，有一個設備與場地設施的預算高達6.81億，這裡所謂的設備與場地設施的科目，包含通傳會、法務部、內政部、金管會都有使用到這個預算，目前執行的詳細內容，可否請主委及幾位次長來一一回答？先請法務部。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，我們112年的預算倒是沒有用在場地，都是用在臺高檢署跟調查局的設備方面，包括相關的蒐證、鑑識跟分析的工具……"],["林委員思銘：鑑識設備？"],["黃次長謀信：對，另外還有檢察官助理的費用，所以我們沒有用在場地費，只有設備費。"],["林委員思銘：好，再來請內政部說明。"],["李副署長西河：委員好。我們165這個部分是因為去年的進線數超過40萬，達到43萬，當時因為接線的人數不夠……"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["李副署長西河：我們去年增加9個人，所以我們需要整地的……我們花了500萬元整地跟700萬元在軟硬體設備。"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["李副署長西河：因為165有4個工作組，一個是接外勤的，一個綜合歸納，一個電信股，一個網路股。"],["林委員思銘：所以是在設備跟人事費？"],["李副署長西河：設備是花了一千兩百多萬元，是在112年初……"],["林委員思銘：有使用到這筆經費嘛？"],["李副署長西河：對……"],["林委員思銘：就設備與……那場地設施費用有嗎？"],["李副署長西河：場地設施就是我們借的保一總隊的地，我們是借的。以上報告。"],["林委員思銘：好，謝謝。好，那再請通傳會。"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：委員好。通傳會是有補助1億0,350萬元，但是全部都花在三大電信業者的交換機房的伺服器，或者一些設備的購置、補助。"],["林委員思銘：是。沒有場地跟設施費嗎？"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：沒有。"],["林委員思銘：金管會有沒有？"],["黃主任委員天牧：金管會沒有用到這些預算。"],["林委員思銘：都沒有？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們都是在監理上的措施。"],["林委員思銘：好，謝謝。其實今天我為什麼問這個問題，就是我們發覺採買這些設備，或者是場地設施，檢方也用了很多的場地設施工作費。但是我剛才講越打越詐，完全沒有預期的效果，花了這麼多錢，沒有達到我們預期的效果，到底要如何來改善？這部分我希望各部會真的要更加地努力。","好，接下來我要請問通傳會，幾位部會請回。OK，好，謝謝。"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：委員好。"],["林委員思銘：通傳會翁副主委，請問今年1月雲林地檢署依照加重詐欺洗錢等罪，起訴了21名透過製作使用俗稱黑莓卡、比特卡、漫遊等詐騙工具，過去3年來不法獲利達六億三千多萬元，甚至逃稅三千多萬元。我要問副主委，關於類似這種黑莓卡的漫遊卡，實名登錄的機制已經開始了嗎？"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：報告委員，我們上個禮拜已經跟電信業者技術研討，已經確定只要在各個電信業者的交換機房端設置伺服器，然後配合移民署有一些資料的驗證，確實未來可以把黑莓卡在源頭就阻絕。"],["林委員思銘：不是，沒回答我的問題。就是說我們現在對於實名登錄的機制已經開始了嗎？"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：還沒，因為這個部分牽涉到我們要去取得移民署的一些資料，要有法律的授權。"],["林委員思銘：是，副主委，在今年的1月3號，某些臺灣的上網卡、漫遊卡、黑莓卡開始實施實名制。但是隨著總統大選的落幕，電信公司就發布最新聲明，宣布撤銷封鎖對臺灣漫遊上網卡的實名政策，你剛才講說沒有實施，但這是一個事實哦！這是真的哦！"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：我剛才講跟電信業者之間有研討了很多的技術，有的是從香港端請他們配合的電信業者來阻斷，但是這一部分涉及到國際漫遊，有困難。"],["林委員思銘：副主委，我再問你啦！就是說在過去你點名說目前只有中華電信提供相關的服務，那現在中華電信已經阻斷多少這種無實名制的SIM卡門號？你知道嗎？"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：初步看起來，從eSIM去切斷的、阻斷的部分是有25萬門。但是這個情形的話，還有其他的電信業者……"],["林委員思銘：所以中華電信還有提供這樣的服務？"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：我先跟委員報告，其實國際漫遊我們是尊重商業的協商機制，但是他到本國來提供服務，我們認為一定要去做KYC，使用者還是要做KYC……"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：所以說我們會持續精進，去跟電信業者開會，研討怎麼從技術的方法、源頭的方法來阻絕。"],["林委員思銘：所以中華電信到現在為止、到今天我問你為止，還繼續有這樣的服務？"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：就香港聯通的部分已經沒有了。"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：對。"],["林委員思銘：其他的就還有？"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：其他的部分，像香港Hutchison的部分還有，但是這個部分……"],["林委員思銘：副主委，因為時間的關係，我只是想告訴你，我剛才已經跟你說，利用這個手法來詐騙的金額非常高。我們還是希望通傳會就這個部分要有效地實施管制措施，否則這些不肖業者就利用這個漏洞來行詐騙之實，造成人民很大的損害，所以希望你加油啊！OK，好。"],["翁副主任委員柏宗：好，這個部分我們會繼續地努力"],["林委員思銘：OK！好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","下一位請黃健豪委員，黃健豪委員改書面。","接著請游顥、游顥、游顥。游委員不在。","請蔡易餘、蔡易餘、蔡易餘。蔡委員不在。","請鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐。鄭委員不在。","請蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉。蘇委員不在。","請何欣純、何欣純、何欣純。何委員不在。","請王美惠、王美惠、王美惠。王委員不在。","請張嘉郡、張嘉郡、張嘉郡。張委員不在。","請陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷。陳委員不在。","請葉元之、葉元之、葉元之。葉委員不在。","今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢。現在處理臨時提案3案，請議事人員宣讀。現場如果不相干的人員，可以先行離開，謝謝。","一、","虛擬貨幣每年在國內仍有相當多國人投入交易，金管會作為主管機關，亦在去年發布《金融監督管理虛擬資產平台及交易業務事業（VASP）指導原則》，但因虛擬幣相關的周邊概念繁多，市場上對虛擬貨幣相關知識不足，造成許多投資人最終只能認賠收場，同時虛擬貨幣也淪為詐騙集團下手目標，近期刑事警察局發現被害案件中以虛擬貨幣為詐騙目標的案件有顯著提升，按外國法例如美國已將虛擬幣定性成「證券」，但在我國仍然定性不明，爰提案要求金管會研議如何有效進行市場管理、保障投資人並加強反詐騙及相關宣導之實際作為，並於1個月內向財政委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：顏寬恒　　賴士葆　　李彥秀　　林德福　　羅明才","二、","本院伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員，鑒於詐騙案件增長迅速，內政部警政署、金融監督管理委員會雖各公布疑似詐騙帳號及我國合法證券、投顧、投信公司名冊以供民眾查詢，然資源分散各單位網頁且無查詢欄位，不利民眾使用，為有效打擊詐騙、保障國人財產安全，請相關單位整合集中相關資訊並建置完善查詢系統，以利民眾查詢。","提案人：伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe　　　　李坤城　　王世堅","三、","本院伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員，根據聯合徵信中心資料統計，台灣男性每人平均持卡3.94張、女性4.34張，顯見國人使用信用卡已普遍。然一旦錢包失竊、遺失仍須個別向金融機構掛失，顯不符合金融便利原則，爰提案要求金管會成立單一掛失窗口提供民眾便捷金融服務，降低盜刷風險。","提案人：伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe　　　　李坤城　　王世堅"]],"agenda":{"page_end":298,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-5","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","顏寬恒","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","謝衣鳯","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra 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--> 00:00:09,811\n主席請法務部、內政部、通傳部、內政部、金管部、數位部請大家上來委員午安\n\n2\n00:00:20,114 --> 00:00:30,838\n主委還有各位市長大家午安我想行政院在去年5月就推出新世代打擊詐欺行動綱領1.5版我看那個匡列的預算在112年編列了8.33億113年編列了5.96億合計是14.29億的預算來打詐\n\n3\n00:00:43,664 --> 00:00:48,758\n並且喊出說上游清源減少受害者下游清淤掃除詐騙集團\n\n4\n00:00:52,081 --> 00:01:14,891\n相較於我們新動綱領1.0版的經費只有匡列1.28億所以增加了大概13.01億但是很矛盾的我們看到就是說去年一整年國人被詐騙的金額累積高達88.78億元創下歷史新高詐欺案件也高達37984件\n\n5\n00:01:18,092 --> 00:01:41,148\n另外去年5月新草根影響力文教基金會他公布的民調也顯示說有9成2的民眾還有接過詐欺電話所以不管是在清除上上游或者減少接觸的一個通流或者減輕我們的損害金流完全沒有效果這樣看起來完全沒有效果\n\n6\n00:01:42,009 --> 00:02:06,199\n所以監察院也在去年12月就對行政院表示政府打詐完全是沒有有效的對策所以這十幾億的預算我們感覺就好像丟進海中沒有激起任何的一個聯誼所以我在這邊首先要詢問的是我們這十幾億的預算中我看到其中有一個設備與闖地設施的預算這個預算高達6.81億\n\n7\n00:02:11,061 --> 00:02:30,024\n所以請問這所謂的設備與場地設施的科目這包含了通傳會、法務部、內政部、金管會都有使用到這個預算那目前執行的詳細內容可否請我們主委還有幾位次長來一一回答先請那個法務部好了好不好\n\n8\n00:02:31,516 --> 00:02:31,896\n再請內政部\n\n9\n00:02:56,929 --> 00:03:19,706\n委員好,我們165這個部分是我們去年因為我們的進線數超過40萬我們達到去年43萬所以我們去年當時因為我們接線的人數不夠我們去年增加9個人所以我們需要整地的增加我們花了500萬的整地跟700萬的軟硬體設備因為我們裡面165有4個工作組一個是接外勤的一個綜合歸納一個電信網\n\n10\n00:03:22,125 --> 00:03:22,185\n再請通常會\n\n11\n00:03:42,922 --> 00:03:57,911\n委員好,我們通傳會這邊是有那個補助是一億三百五十萬但是全部都發在三大電信業者的那個交換機房的伺服器或者一些設備的構置補助沒有場地跟設施沒有軍管會\n\n12\n00:04:01,701 --> 00:04:09,567\n今天為什麼問這個問題就是說我們發覺說我們去採買這些設備或者是場地設施的我們檢方也用了很多的一個場地設施的工作費但是打仗我剛才講的越打越炸完全沒有預期的效果\n\n13\n00:04:26,861 --> 00:04:49,527\n所以說花了這麼多錢沒有達到我們預期的效果到底我們要如何來改善所以這部分我希望各部會真的要更加的努力好那接下來我要請問我們的通傳會幾位部會請回謝謝通傳會溫主委、歐副主委副主委請問這個\n\n14\n00:04:54,008 --> 00:04:54,148\n報告委員．\n\n15\n00:05:22,831 --> 00:05:40,792\n我們上個禮拜已經跟電信業者技術研討已經確定那個只要在各個電信業者的交換機房端設置一個束縛器然後配合移民署這邊的一些那個\n\n16\n00:05:42,062 --> 00:06:04,725\n有一些資料的驗證確實未來可以把黑媒卡在源頭就阻絕。還沒,因為這個部分牽涉到因為我們要去有一些要取得移民署的一些資料的話要有法律的授權。\n\n17\n00:06:05,906 --> 00:06:27,371\n我想這個副主委在今年的1月3號那某些台灣的上網卡、漫遊卡、黑莓卡需要開始實施實名制但是隨著我們總統大選的落幕電信公司就發布最新聲明宣布撤銷封鎖對台灣漫遊上網卡的實名政策\n\n18\n00:06:28,231 --> 00:06:47,129\n所以你剛才講說沒有實施所以這是一個事實喔其實我們我剛才講跟電信業者之間有研討了很多的技術有的是從香港端請他們的配合的電信業者來阻斷但是這一部分涉及到國際漫遊有困難那個副隊長我再問你啦就是說\n\n19\n00:06:48,325 --> 00:06:58,043\n在過去你點名說目前只有中華電信提供相關的服務那現在中華電信已經阻斷多少這種無實名制的SIM卡的門號?\n\n20\n00:06:59,865 --> 00:07:27,040\n他初步看起來從音息去切斷的阻斷的部分是有25萬門但是這個情形的話還有其他的電信業者所以中華電信還有提供這樣的服務我先跟委員報告其實這個國際漫遊我們是尊重他的商業的協商機制但是他到本國來提供服務我們認為一定要去做KYC使用者還是要做KYC所以說我們才會\n\n21\n00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:44,416\n持續精進去跟電信業者開會研討怎麼從技術的技術的方法源頭的方法來阻絕所以中華電信到現在為止今天我問你為止還繼續有做這樣的一個服務就香港聯通的部分已經沒有了\n\n22\n00:07:45,117 --> 00:08:04,984\n是,其他的就還有?其他的部分像香港的Hodgson的部分還有,但是這個部分...其實副主委,因為時間的關係,我只是想告訴你,我剛才已經跟你講說,利用這個手法來詐騙,你看那個金額非常的高,所以我們還是希望說我們通訊傳播會就這個部分,\n\n23\n00:08:05,504 --> 00:08:05,664\n好,謝謝下一位\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1407\t9811\t主席請法務部、內政部、通傳部、內政部、金管部、數位部請大家上來委員午安\n20114\t30838\t主委還有各位市長大家午安我想行政院在去年5月就推出新世代打擊詐欺行動綱領1.5版我看那個匡列的預算在112年編列了8.33億113年編列了5.96億合計是14.29億的預算來打詐\n43664\t48758\t並且喊出說上游清源減少受害者下游清淤掃除詐騙集團\n52081\t74891\t相較於我們新動綱領1.0版的經費只有匡列1.28億所以增加了大概13.01億但是很矛盾的我們看到就是說去年一整年國人被詐騙的金額累積高達88.78億元創下歷史新高詐欺案件也高達37984件\n78092\t101148\t另外去年5月新草根影響力文教基金會他公布的民調也顯示說有9成2的民眾還有接過詐欺電話所以不管是在清除上上游或者減少接觸的一個通流或者減輕我們的損害金流完全沒有效果這樣看起來完全沒有效果\n102009\t126199\t所以監察院也在去年12月就對行政院表示政府打詐完全是沒有有效的對策所以這十幾億的預算我們感覺就好像丟進海中沒有激起任何的一個聯誼所以我在這邊首先要詢問的是我們這十幾億的預算中我看到其中有一個設備與闖地設施的預算這個預算高達6.81億\n131061\t150024\t所以請問這所謂的設備與場地設施的科目這包含了通傳會、法務部、內政部、金管會都有使用到這個預算那目前執行的詳細內容可否請我們主委還有幾位次長來一一回答先請那個法務部好了好不好\n151516\t151896\t再請內政部\n176929\t199706\t委員好,我們165這個部分是我們去年因為我們的進線數超過40萬我們達到去年43萬所以我們去年當時因為我們接線的人數不夠我們去年增加9個人所以我們需要整地的增加我們花了500萬的整地跟700萬的軟硬體設備因為我們裡面165有4個工作組一個是接外勤的一個綜合歸納一個電信網\n202125\t202185\t再請通常會\n222922\t237911\t委員好,我們通傳會這邊是有那個補助是一億三百五十萬但是全部都發在三大電信業者的那個交換機房的伺服器或者一些設備的構置補助沒有場地跟設施沒有軍管會\n241701\t249567\t今天為什麼問這個問題就是說我們發覺說我們去採買這些設備或者是場地設施的我們檢方也用了很多的一個場地設施的工作費但是打仗我剛才講的越打越炸完全沒有預期的效果\n266861\t289527\t所以說花了這麼多錢沒有達到我們預期的效果到底我們要如何來改善所以這部分我希望各部會真的要更加的努力好那接下來我要請問我們的通傳會幾位部會請回謝謝通傳會溫主委、歐副主委副主委請問這個\n294008\t294148\t報告委員．\n322831\t340792\t我們上個禮拜已經跟電信業者技術研討已經確定那個只要在各個電信業者的交換機房端設置一個束縛器然後配合移民署這邊的一些那個\n342062\t364725\t有一些資料的驗證確實未來可以把黑媒卡在源頭就阻絕。還沒,因為這個部分牽涉到因為我們要去有一些要取得移民署的一些資料的話要有法律的授權。\n365906\t387371\t我想這個副主委在今年的1月3號那某些台灣的上網卡、漫遊卡、黑莓卡需要開始實施實名制但是隨著我們總統大選的落幕電信公司就發布最新聲明宣布撤銷封鎖對台灣漫遊上網卡的實名政策\n388231\t407129\t所以你剛才講說沒有實施所以這是一個事實喔其實我們我剛才講跟電信業者之間有研討了很多的技術有的是從香港端請他們的配合的電信業者來阻斷但是這一部分涉及到國際漫遊有困難那個副隊長我再問你啦就是說\n408325\t418043\t在過去你點名說目前只有中華電信提供相關的服務那現在中華電信已經阻斷多少這種無實名制的SIM卡的門號?\n419865\t447040\t他初步看起來從音息去切斷的阻斷的部分是有25萬門但是這個情形的話還有其他的電信業者所以中華電信還有提供這樣的服務我先跟委員報告其實這個國際漫遊我們是尊重他的商業的協商機制但是他到本國來提供服務我們認為一定要去做KYC使用者還是要做KYC所以說我們才會\n447600\t464416\t持續精進去跟電信業者開會研討怎麼從技術的技術的方法源頭的方法來阻絕所以中華電信到現在為止今天我問你為止還繼續有做這樣的一個服務就香港聯通的部分已經沒有了\n465117\t484984\t是,其他的就還有?其他的部分像香港的Hodgson的部分還有,但是這個部分...其實副主委,因為時間的關係,我只是想告訴你,我剛才已經跟你講說,利用這個手法來詐騙,你看那個金額非常的高,所以我們還是希望說我們通訊傳播會就這個部分,\n485504\t485664\t好,謝謝下一位\n","txt":"主席請法務部、內政部、通傳部、內政部、金管部、數位部請大家上來委員午安\n主委還有各位市長大家午安我想行政院在去年5月就推出新世代打擊詐欺行動綱領1.5版我看那個匡列的預算在112年編列了8.33億113年編列了5.96億合計是14.29億的預算來打詐\n並且喊出說上游清源減少受害者下游清淤掃除詐騙集團\n相較於我們新動綱領1.0版的經費只有匡列1.28億所以增加了大概13.01億但是很矛盾的我們看到就是說去年一整年國人被詐騙的金額累積高達88.78億元創下歷史新高詐欺案件也高達37984件\n另外去年5月新草根影響力文教基金會他公布的民調也顯示說有9成2的民眾還有接過詐欺電話所以不管是在清除上上游或者減少接觸的一個通流或者減輕我們的損害金流完全沒有效果這樣看起來完全沒有效果\n所以監察院也在去年12月就對行政院表示政府打詐完全是沒有有效的對策所以這十幾億的預算我們感覺就好像丟進海中沒有激起任何的一個聯誼所以我在這邊首先要詢問的是我們這十幾億的預算中我看到其中有一個設備與闖地設施的預算這個預算高達6.81億\n所以請問這所謂的設備與場地設施的科目這包含了通傳會、法務部、內政部、金管會都有使用到這個預算那目前執行的詳細內容可否請我們主委還有幾位次長來一一回答先請那個法務部好了好不好\n再請內政部\n委員好,我們165這個部分是我們去年因為我們的進線數超過40萬我們達到去年43萬所以我們去年當時因為我們接線的人數不夠我們去年增加9個人所以我們需要整地的增加我們花了500萬的整地跟700萬的軟硬體設備因為我們裡面165有4個工作組一個是接外勤的一個綜合歸納一個電信網\n再請通常會\n委員好,我們通傳會這邊是有那個補助是一億三百五十萬但是全部都發在三大電信業者的那個交換機房的伺服器或者一些設備的構置補助沒有場地跟設施沒有軍管會\n今天為什麼問這個問題就是說我們發覺說我們去採買這些設備或者是場地設施的我們檢方也用了很多的一個場地設施的工作費但是打仗我剛才講的越打越炸完全沒有預期的效果\n所以說花了這麼多錢沒有達到我們預期的效果到底我們要如何來改善所以這部分我希望各部會真的要更加的努力好那接下來我要請問我們的通傳會幾位部會請回謝謝通傳會溫主委、歐副主委副主委請問這個\n報告委員．\n我們上個禮拜已經跟電信業者技術研討已經確定那個只要在各個電信業者的交換機房端設置一個束縛器然後配合移民署這邊的一些那個\n有一些資料的驗證確實未來可以把黑媒卡在源頭就阻絕。還沒,因為這個部分牽涉到因為我們要去有一些要取得移民署的一些資料的話要有法律的授權。\n我想這個副主委在今年的1月3號那某些台灣的上網卡、漫遊卡、黑莓卡需要開始實施實名制但是隨著我們總統大選的落幕電信公司就發布最新聲明宣布撤銷封鎖對台灣漫遊上網卡的實名政策\n所以你剛才講說沒有實施所以這是一個事實喔其實我們我剛才講跟電信業者之間有研討了很多的技術有的是從香港端請他們的配合的電信業者來阻斷但是這一部分涉及到國際漫遊有困難那個副隊長我再問你啦就是說\n在過去你點名說目前只有中華電信提供相關的服務那現在中華電信已經阻斷多少這種無實名制的SIM卡的門號?\n他初步看起來從音息去切斷的阻斷的部分是有25萬門但是這個情形的話還有其他的電信業者所以中華電信還有提供這樣的服務我先跟委員報告其實這個國際漫遊我們是尊重他的商業的協商機制但是他到本國來提供服務我們認為一定要去做KYC使用者還是要做KYC所以說我們才會\n持續精進去跟電信業者開會研討怎麼從技術的技術的方法源頭的方法來阻絕所以中華電信到現在為止今天我問你為止還繼續有做這樣的一個服務就香港聯通的部分已經沒有了\n是,其他的就還有?其他的部分像香港的Hodgson的部分還有,但是這個部分...其實副主委,因為時間的關係,我只是想告訴你,我剛才已經跟你講說,利用這個手法來詐騙,你看那個金額非常的高,所以我們還是希望說我們通訊傳播會就這個部分,\n好,謝謝下一位\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.407 --> 00:09.811\n主席請法務部、內政部、通傳部、內政部、金管部、數位部請大家上來委員午安\n\n00:20.114 --> 00:30.838\n主委還有各位市長大家午安我想行政院在去年5月就推出新世代打擊詐欺行動綱領1.5版我看那個匡列的預算在112年編列了8.33億113年編列了5.96億合計是14.29億的預算來打詐\n\n00:43.664 --> 00:48.758\n並且喊出說上游清源減少受害者下游清淤掃除詐騙集團\n\n00:52.081 --> 01:14.891\n相較於我們新動綱領1.0版的經費只有匡列1.28億所以增加了大概13.01億但是很矛盾的我們看到就是說去年一整年國人被詐騙的金額累積高達88.78億元創下歷史新高詐欺案件也高達37984件\n\n01:18.092 --> 01:41.148\n另外去年5月新草根影響力文教基金會他公布的民調也顯示說有9成2的民眾還有接過詐欺電話所以不管是在清除上上游或者減少接觸的一個通流或者減輕我們的損害金流完全沒有效果這樣看起來完全沒有效果\n\n01:42.009 --> 02:06.199\n所以監察院也在去年12月就對行政院表示政府打詐完全是沒有有效的對策所以這十幾億的預算我們感覺就好像丟進海中沒有激起任何的一個聯誼所以我在這邊首先要詢問的是我們這十幾億的預算中我看到其中有一個設備與闖地設施的預算這個預算高達6.81億\n\n02:11.061 --> 02:30.024\n所以請問這所謂的設備與場地設施的科目這包含了通傳會、法務部、內政部、金管會都有使用到這個預算那目前執行的詳細內容可否請我們主委還有幾位次長來一一回答先請那個法務部好了好不好\n\n02:31.516 --> 02:31.896\n再請內政部\n\n02:56.929 --> 03:19.706\n委員好,我們165這個部分是我們去年因為我們的進線數超過40萬我們達到去年43萬所以我們去年當時因為我們接線的人數不夠我們去年增加9個人所以我們需要整地的增加我們花了500萬的整地跟700萬的軟硬體設備因為我們裡面165有4個工作組一個是接外勤的一個綜合歸納一個電信網\n\n03:22.125 --> 03:22.185\n再請通常會\n\n03:42.922 --> 03:57.911\n委員好,我們通傳會這邊是有那個補助是一億三百五十萬但是全部都發在三大電信業者的那個交換機房的伺服器或者一些設備的構置補助沒有場地跟設施沒有軍管會\n\n04:01.701 --> 04:09.567\n今天為什麼問這個問題就是說我們發覺說我們去採買這些設備或者是場地設施的我們檢方也用了很多的一個場地設施的工作費但是打仗我剛才講的越打越炸完全沒有預期的效果\n\n04:26.861 --> 04:49.527\n所以說花了這麼多錢沒有達到我們預期的效果到底我們要如何來改善所以這部分我希望各部會真的要更加的努力好那接下來我要請問我們的通傳會幾位部會請回謝謝通傳會溫主委、歐副主委副主委請問這個\n\n04:54.008 --> 04:54.148\n報告委員．\n\n05:22.831 --> 05:40.792\n我們上個禮拜已經跟電信業者技術研討已經確定那個只要在各個電信業者的交換機房端設置一個束縛器然後配合移民署這邊的一些那個\n\n05:42.062 --> 06:04.725\n有一些資料的驗證確實未來可以把黑媒卡在源頭就阻絕。還沒,因為這個部分牽涉到因為我們要去有一些要取得移民署的一些資料的話要有法律的授權。\n\n06:05.906 --> 06:27.371\n我想這個副主委在今年的1月3號那某些台灣的上網卡、漫遊卡、黑莓卡需要開始實施實名制但是隨著我們總統大選的落幕電信公司就發布最新聲明宣布撤銷封鎖對台灣漫遊上網卡的實名政策\n\n06:28.231 --> 06:47.129\n所以你剛才講說沒有實施所以這是一個事實喔其實我們我剛才講跟電信業者之間有研討了很多的技術有的是從香港端請他們的配合的電信業者來阻斷但是這一部分涉及到國際漫遊有困難那個副隊長我再問你啦就是說\n\n06:48.325 --> 06:58.043\n在過去你點名說目前只有中華電信提供相關的服務那現在中華電信已經阻斷多少這種無實名制的SIM卡的門號?\n\n06:59.865 --> 07:27.040\n他初步看起來從音息去切斷的阻斷的部分是有25萬門但是這個情形的話還有其他的電信業者所以中華電信還有提供這樣的服務我先跟委員報告其實這個國際漫遊我們是尊重他的商業的協商機制但是他到本國來提供服務我們認為一定要去做KYC使用者還是要做KYC所以說我們才會\n\n07:27.600 --> 07:44.416\n持續精進去跟電信業者開會研討怎麼從技術的技術的方法源頭的方法來阻絕所以中華電信到現在為止今天我問你為止還繼續有做這樣的一個服務就香港聯通的部分已經沒有了\n\n07:45.117 --> 08:04.984\n是,其他的就還有?其他的部分像香港的Hodgson的部分還有,但是這個部分...其實副主委,因為時間的關係,我只是想告訴你,我剛才已經跟你講說,利用這個手法來詐騙,你看那個金額非常的高,所以我們還是希望說我們通訊傳播會就這個部分,\n\n08:05.504 --> 08:05.664\n好,謝謝下一位\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.407,"end":9.811,"text":"主席請法務部、內政部、通傳部、內政部、金管部、數位部請大家上來委員午安"},{"start":20.114,"end":30.838,"text":"主委還有各位市長大家午安我想行政院在去年5月就推出新世代打擊詐欺行動綱領1.5版我看那個匡列的預算在112年編列了8.33億113年編列了5.96億合計是14.29億的預算來打詐"},{"start":43.664,"end":48.758,"text":"並且喊出說上游清源減少受害者下游清淤掃除詐騙集團"},{"start":52.081,"end":74.891,"text":"相較於我們新動綱領1.0版的經費只有匡列1.28億所以增加了大概13.01億但是很矛盾的我們看到就是說去年一整年國人被詐騙的金額累積高達88.78億元創下歷史新高詐欺案件也高達37984件"},{"start":78.092,"end":101.148,"text":"另外去年5月新草根影響力文教基金會他公布的民調也顯示說有9成2的民眾還有接過詐欺電話所以不管是在清除上上游或者減少接觸的一個通流或者減輕我們的損害金流完全沒有效果這樣看起來完全沒有效果"},{"start":102.009,"end":126.199,"text":"所以監察院也在去年12月就對行政院表示政府打詐完全是沒有有效的對策所以這十幾億的預算我們感覺就好像丟進海中沒有激起任何的一個聯誼所以我在這邊首先要詢問的是我們這十幾億的預算中我看到其中有一個設備與闖地設施的預算這個預算高達6.81億"},{"start":131.061,"end":150.024,"text":"所以請問這所謂的設備與場地設施的科目這包含了通傳會、法務部、內政部、金管會都有使用到這個預算那目前執行的詳細內容可否請我們主委還有幾位次長來一一回答先請那個法務部好了好不好"},{"start":151.516,"end":151.896,"text":"再請內政部"},{"start":176.929,"end":199.706,"text":"委員好,我們165這個部分是我們去年因為我們的進線數超過40萬我們達到去年43萬所以我們去年當時因為我們接線的人數不夠我們去年增加9個人所以我們需要整地的增加我們花了500萬的整地跟700萬的軟硬體設備因為我們裡面165有4個工作組一個是接外勤的一個綜合歸納一個電信網"},{"start":202.125,"end":202.185,"text":"再請通常會"},{"start":222.922,"end":237.911,"text":"委員好,我們通傳會這邊是有那個補助是一億三百五十萬但是全部都發在三大電信業者的那個交換機房的伺服器或者一些設備的構置補助沒有場地跟設施沒有軍管會"},{"start":241.701,"end":249.567,"text":"今天為什麼問這個問題就是說我們發覺說我們去採買這些設備或者是場地設施的我們檢方也用了很多的一個場地設施的工作費但是打仗我剛才講的越打越炸完全沒有預期的效果"},{"start":266.861,"end":289.527,"text":"所以說花了這麼多錢沒有達到我們預期的效果到底我們要如何來改善所以這部分我希望各部會真的要更加的努力好那接下來我要請問我們的通傳會幾位部會請回謝謝通傳會溫主委、歐副主委副主委請問這個"},{"start":294.008,"end":294.148,"text":"報告委員．"},{"start":322.831,"end":340.792,"text":"我們上個禮拜已經跟電信業者技術研討已經確定那個只要在各個電信業者的交換機房端設置一個束縛器然後配合移民署這邊的一些那個"},{"start":342.062,"end":364.725,"text":"有一些資料的驗證確實未來可以把黑媒卡在源頭就阻絕。還沒,因為這個部分牽涉到因為我們要去有一些要取得移民署的一些資料的話要有法律的授權。"},{"start":365.906,"end":387.371,"text":"我想這個副主委在今年的1月3號那某些台灣的上網卡、漫遊卡、黑莓卡需要開始實施實名制但是隨著我們總統大選的落幕電信公司就發布最新聲明宣布撤銷封鎖對台灣漫遊上網卡的實名政策"},{"start":388.231,"end":407.129,"text":"所以你剛才講說沒有實施所以這是一個事實喔其實我們我剛才講跟電信業者之間有研討了很多的技術有的是從香港端請他們的配合的電信業者來阻斷但是這一部分涉及到國際漫遊有困難那個副隊長我再問你啦就是說"},{"start":408.325,"end":418.043,"text":"在過去你點名說目前只有中華電信提供相關的服務那現在中華電信已經阻斷多少這種無實名制的SIM卡的門號?"},{"start":419.865,"end":447.04,"text":"他初步看起來從音息去切斷的阻斷的部分是有25萬門但是這個情形的話還有其他的電信業者所以中華電信還有提供這樣的服務我先跟委員報告其實這個國際漫遊我們是尊重他的商業的協商機制但是他到本國來提供服務我們認為一定要去做KYC使用者還是要做KYC所以說我們才會"},{"start":447.6,"end":464.416,"text":"持續精進去跟電信業者開會研討怎麼從技術的技術的方法源頭的方法來阻絕所以中華電信到現在為止今天我問你為止還繼續有做這樣的一個服務就香港聯通的部分已經沒有了"},{"start":465.117,"end":484.984,"text":"是,其他的就還有?其他的部分像香港的Hodgson的部分還有,但是這個部分...其實副主委,因為時間的關係,我只是想告訴你,我剛才已經跟你講說,利用這個手法來詐騙,你看那個金額非常的高,所以我們還是希望說我們通訊傳播會就這個部分,"},{"start":485.504,"end":485.664,"text":"好,謝謝下一位"}]}}}}