{"id":150415,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150415","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f45bf982c29023ee2d2c8aab4adbe6d08ac1d636ef3e2fe8f8ba9b0039caa7a64ae445465c1280e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"11:04:40 - 11:20:46","影片長度":"00:16:06","會議時間":"2024-03-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-26","duration":966,"end_time":"2024-03-26T11:20:46+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-26T11:04:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":471,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（11時4分）謝謝主席，我們有請院長、勞動部許部長及衛福部薛部長。"],["主席：請陳院長、勞動部備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：吳委員早。"],["吳委員春城：院長好，院長你辛苦了！"],["陳院長建仁：不會。"],["吳委員春城：今天看你更有笑容，今天是最後一場的總質詢，你辛苦了。"],["陳院長建仁：對，所以很高興能夠接受委員質詢。"],["吳委員春城：也是最重要的一場，希望你能夠以大格局、大胸懷，助臺灣最後一臂之力，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好，我來努力。"],["吳委員春城：1970年時臺灣65歲以上的人占2.9%，平均壽命六十幾歲，60歲以後的人生就叫餘生，隨便晃一晃就掛掉了，就在這樣前提下定義了銀髮論述，我們的銀髮觀。現在我們邁向了2040年，65歲以上人口是占總人口的30.1%，10倍，平均壽命八十幾，那60歲退休以後還有很多人會有30年，這叫做第三人生，這就是我所建構的叫做壯世代的主張。但是我們現在還繼續在採用舊的思維來應付、迎向這些人，如果這不改變，未來臺灣會躺成一片，高齡者成為臥床族，我們現在臥床平均超過8年，還有少子化造成大量的躺平族，這是一個系統性的問題，但是我們現在都用枝枝節節的方式在補破洞。我們用2.9%的銀髮政策在處理30%的壯世代、長壽社會的來臨，現在社福預算已經達到8,000億，難道非要破萬億不行嗎？這個看起來指日可待！請問院長，20年後臺灣一半的人口都要超過60歲，如果對高齡政策都沒有改變的話，那我們的社福預算要多少才夠？請問院長，你也是這方面的專家。"],["陳院長建仁：我想委員對於我們少子化的問題很重視，而且分析的很透徹，你剛才的分析就很棒，我想未來怎麼樣讓壯世代能夠自立自足，而且共榮永續，然後對社會繼續有貢獻，這是很重要的……"],["吳委員春城：非常重要的事情。"],["陳院長建仁：而且不只是臺灣喔，全世界……"],["吳委員春城：這是全球的問題。"],["陳院長建仁：德國也是一樣。"],["吳委員春城：但是臺灣是全世界最嚴重的，跟南韓，我們在2055年會超越日本，成為比日本還老的國家。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["吳委員春城：接下來後面還有很多問題要請教院長，我跟各部會最近大概都有溝通，包括跟許部長也有溝通，我發現每一個部會的政策都在歧視高齡者，但是他們都無可奈何，眾口均指向衛福部的銀髮思維，好像這沒辦法，這都是上面交代的，所謂上面，我不曉得上面是誰，上面是院長你嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：不是我啦！"],["吳委員春城：也不是你，那是蔡總統嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：確實像委員講的這些，在有些法規上，我們確實是把老人……"],["吳委員春城：這是一個系統性的問題，所以呢……"],["陳院長建仁：對！"],["吳委員春城：院長，臺灣進入長壽社會，我也看出來我們傾全力都在打造60歲以前的人生，這個社會非常的繁榮，但是只要推開60歲這扇大門一看，你走出去是一片荒涼，沒有路、沒有橋、沒有水、沒有電，像沙漠一樣，這邊已經有多少人？這邊已經有600萬人，60歲以上的在「沐沐泅」啦，各憑本事、自生自滅，如果是6個人要在沙漠上，那是他個人的事情，但如果600萬人在沙漠裡面，請問是誰的責任？"],["陳院長建仁：當然政府應該要一起努力……"],["吳委員春城：政府的責任！"],["陳院長建仁：還有跟企業界，整個社會……"],["吳委員春城：對，政府的責任。感謝院長在3月19號我的財政組總質詢當中承諾了建立壯世代金融行動方案，而且要求上市櫃公司提出高齡社會永續報告，希望這個能追蹤、落實。同時在那時候我有問陳院長，對於2023年行政院提出的超高齡社會對策中、有哪一些是你所需求的？"],["陳院長建仁：對，我想可能我們現在考慮到60歲以上壯世代，實際上他們不管是在社會參與、在產業的參與或健康生活上都能夠越來越健康，然後越來越有活力，所以長照政策實際上也要注意到健康者怎麼樣……"],["吳委員春城：2023年看起來大家都還是圍繞在這幾個項目，醫療、養生、照護等這些層面，但是不可能30年整天在搞這個啦，他要有完整的第三人生。長壽時代即將來臨，我們社會普遍歧視老人，如果用大數據輸入老人、銀髮、樂齡等這些稱呼，依附過來都是負面的字眼，所以它已經被高度污名化了，大家都很怕跟老扯上關係，我辦了很多活動，大家都叫我不要用銀髮、樂齡等名稱，不然就不參加了，所以我們跟勞動部現在都要談壯世代。","OK，這個是壯世代運動，在去年我還是民間身分的時候就到立法院來倡議，也獲得跨黨派的共同支持，這個沒有黨派的觀念，這是全民社會的問題。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["吳委員春城：我們現在的銀髮政策只重視安老扶弱，所以有800萬的壯世代如何讓他們壯起來很重要，我上次用資產的高低及現金流的高低把壯世代分成四大類型，上次我在財政組總質詢時所提出的是針對上面這兩個，也就是安穩型及貢獻型，如何來活化他們的資產，今天我要跟勞動部和衛福部請教如何針對活躍型及社福扶持型的因應之道。","首先，我非常肯定勞動部最近非常積極地推出了「55Plus壯世代就業促進措施」及「5050壯世代就業網絡合作計畫」，勞動部高舉壯世代的旗幟，新價值壯世代成為主流，許部長，你說比起中高齡你更喜歡壯世代這個稱呼，請問你覺得壯世代對號召再就業有什麼助益？有什麼幫助？"],["許部長銘春：我想壯世代可以讓整個高齡的人會覺得自己其實是個非常有用、有價值、對社會還有貢獻的人，所以我是覺得壯世代確實不管在經驗或各方面的專業，其實都是剛好到最好的時候，所以我覺得這個部分應該讓壯世代的勞動力能夠延續，或者說再重返我們的職場，尤其在面對缺工、缺才這麼嚴重的年代，我覺得這個部分我們一定要努力來推動。"],["吳委員春城：對，我很感謝勞動部看到了這一點，針對高齡社會都不是只有照顧、照護、長照，其實勞動是第三人生很重要的價值，因為勞動會帶來你的意義感、社交、財務的支撐等各方面，所以是很重要的解方，也很感謝，但是這一點勞動部還要繼續努力，把它進行全面的規劃。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["吳委員春城：但是更根本的問題是我們僵化的退休體制，造成壯世代進退兩難，有些人想要提早退休，其實50歲退休也不錯，但有些人想要延後退休，有人退休後想要再回來，但是我們現在的退休體制綁手綁腳，很不方便，特別是勞基法第五十四條規定，雇主得強制年滿65歲勞工退休。其實這個方面也值得探討，像日本的高齡者雇用安定法現在已經通過工作延長到70歲，而且現在日本也有很多企業，有四成以上的企業都僱用75歲以上的人；甚至YKK集團內部也規定，員工可以用正職的身分工作到任何年齡，做到他不想做為止，這樣可以創造政府、企業跟勞方三方面的三贏。最後在這裡我想要跟院長、跟勞動部提出請求，第一點是檢討僵化的退休體制，還給人民工作的自由權；第二個是獎勵壯世代重返職場，能夠落實全面的法制化。關於這一點，請問院長跟許部長，可不可以給我們800萬的壯世代一個承諾？"],["陳院長建仁：我想讓退休的體制更有彈性，讓壯世代能夠繼續做他喜歡的工作，我覺得這是我們應該要努力的，然後這樣的話，有一些法制上的東西確實要修正，譬如說像剛才提到的日本，他為了鼓勵大家都能夠做到70歲，在法制上做了一個改變，這部分我們會請勞動部這邊來研議以後，送到大院這邊來看看怎麼樣做更好的修正，讓所有的壯世代都能夠對社會繼續有貢獻，然後也讓他的生命更有意義。"],["吳委員春城：謝謝院長。接下來我要請教衛福部薛部長，最近您辛苦了，一個單一的案件就搞得全國、舉國天翻地覆，你也說社安網有缺陷，請問部長，我們的社福體系缺陷在哪裡？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是整個社福體系大致上可能都有一些小的問題，但是今天這個案子是一個收出養的個案，收出養的個案在這個過程當中，的確從這個案子我們發現了一些比較重大的問題……"],["吳委員春城：薛部長，那只是一個表象，應該講這是一個系統性的問題，整個系統性的人口都出問題，2030年我們有一半的人口要超過50歲，再10年，可以用現在的社福政策來照顧一半的人口嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然這中間必須要經過調整，因為不管是在人力部分的話，也會出現極大的落差。"],["吳委員春城：這是一個大哉問，不過10年也迫在眼前了，所以要加緊腳步。另外請問薛部長，你有沒有注意到民間的浪潮？雖然有時公務繁忙，但也要看看民間的浪潮。現在大家都不喜歡戴上「銀髮」這頂帽子，你有發現嗎？有些餐廳、飯店都不用這個字眼，但是我發現我們的政府政策屢屢出現銀髮產業、銀髮老人科等等用語，什麼東西都僵化不變，所以這部分要改良。其實我知道這是一個很大的系統性的問題，但是不改變這個人設，我們沒有真正的高齡照顧的產業，其他都是補補貼貼，但是要做到這樣，必須要有遠見、有魄力的領導人，翻轉我們現在這種銀髮的人設成為壯世代的人設。最後我要請行政院院長，還有衛福部部長，是不是可以承諾兩點：第一點是檢討長照政策，不只是照顧，更需要照亮；第二點是排除年齡歧視，去除「老人」及「銀髮」的稱呼，可不可以？這個也請問一下部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：有關第二點要去除「老人」的用語，這件事情會有問題，因為我們很多法規都是用「老人」一詞，法律名詞已經定在那個地方……"],["吳委員春城：對，我知道，這個當然不是簡單的事情，但是你不做，這件事影響的層面太大了，影響的層面是整個政府的當機，整個我們未來一半的人口無所適從。","另外，我再問一下院長，明年進入超高齡社會，布局2025年我覺得我們現在的準備是遠遠不足，內閣必須要重新制定世代循環的白皮書，這個涉及到每一個部會，總統跟行政院長要勇於打破框架，勞動部要釋放勞動力，教育部要建立終身教育的體制，經濟部要做世代融合的經濟循環，衛福部要去除銀髮思維的政策，數發部要科技平權世代共享，國發會要有以人口學為本的全面性的國家計畫。","最後，我也希望院長你用一生的功力，任第三人生國家政策院的院長，你如果能夠繼續綜合，因為這件事情太難了，每一個部會都說它沒有能力，這個是一定要超越部會的，就要拜託院長繼續，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員春城的質詢，謝謝吳委員春城，謝謝陳院長的備詢，謝謝。","接下來我們請登記第7號王委員世堅質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":219,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","吳宗憲","廖偉翔","陳昭姿","林憶君","賴士葆","劉建國","吳春城","王世堅","李彥秀","謝龍介","黃捷","游顥","蘇清泉","李坤城","蘇巧慧","王正旭","邱議瑩","洪申翰","鄭正鈐","涂權吉","徐巧芯"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-03-26"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lci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00:01:16,008\n1970年台灣65歲上的人佔2.9%那平均餘命平均壽命60幾歲然後60以後的人生叫做餘生就是隨便晃著晃著就掛掉了那就在這樣的一個前提下定立的叫做引法論述我們的引法官\n\n4\n00:01:17,448 --> 00:01:40,293\n現在我們邁向的2040年65歲上來的人要佔人口的30.1%10倍平均壽命80幾歲那60退休以後還有很多人會有30年這叫做第三人生那這就是我所建構的叫壯世代的主張\n\n5\n00:01:41,854 --> 00:02:09,995\n但是我們現在還繼續在採用舊的思維來應付面相的影響。如果這不改變,未來台灣會躺成一片。高齡者成為臥床族,我們現在臥床超過8年。還有這個少子化造成大量的躺平族。這是一個系統性的問題,但是我們現在都用枝枝節節的方式在捕破洞。\n\n6\n00:02:11,294 --> 00:02:37,464\n我們用2.9%的銀髮政策在處理30%的壯世代長壽社會的來臨。所以我們現在的社福預算已經達到了8千億。難道非要破萬億不行嗎?這個看起來其實可帶。請問院長,20年後,臺灣一半的人口都要超過60歲。\n\n7\n00:02:39,369 --> 00:02:45,323\n如果對高齡兒政策都沒有改變的話那我們的社福預算要多少才夠請問院長\n\n8\n00:02:48,523 --> 00:03:14,649\n你也是專門專家我想委員對於這個我們少子化的問題很重視而且分析得很透徹你剛才的分析就很棒那我想未來怎麼樣讓這個壯世代能夠有自立自主而且共榮永續然後對社會有繼續有貢獻我想這是很重要的而且不只是台灣這是全球的問題\n\n9\n00:03:16,409 --> 00:03:44,371\n但是台灣是全世界最嚴重的,跟南韓。我們在2055年會超越日本,成為全世界比日本還老的國家。後面還有很多要問院長。在我跟各部會最近大概都有溝通,我發現每一個部會的政策都在歧視高齡者,但是他們都無可奈何。\n\n10\n00:03:46,701 --> 00:04:05,122\n眾口都指向衛福部的引法思維。好像這沒辦法,這都是上面交代。上面的,我不曉得上面是誰,上面是院長你嗎?不是我。也不是你,然後是蔡總統嗎?確實像委員講的這一些,有一些法規上我們確實是把...這是一個系統性的問題。對。\n\n11\n00:04:06,323 --> 00:04:20,534\n所以這個院長這個台灣進入長壽社會那我看出來我們整個請全力都在打造60歲以前的人生這個社會非常的繁榮但是你只要推開60歲這扇大門一看\n\n12\n00:04:23,616 --> 00:04:25,077\n當然政府應該要一起努力,還有跟企業界\n\n13\n00:04:54,074 --> 00:05:10,388\n政府的責任。但是感謝院長在3月19日的時候我在財政的總詢詢當中院長也承諾了建立壯世代金融行動方案而且要求上市櫃公司\n\n14\n00:05:12,336 --> 00:05:25,851\n提出高齡社會的永續報告希望這個會追蹤落實同時陳院長在那時候我有問你對於2023年行政院提出的超高齡社會對策\n\n15\n00:05:28,679 --> 00:05:50,592\n請問院長你這些有哪一些是你所需求的?我想可能我們現在考慮到60歲以上的壯士代實際上他能夠不管是在社會參與在產業的參與或者是在健康生活上都能夠越來越健康然後越來越有活力\n\n16\n00:05:51,352 --> 00:06:17,782\n所以很多的長照政策實際上也要注意到這個健康者。現在2023年看起來大家都還是圍繞在這幾個項目嘛這個醫療、養生、照顧的這一些層面但是不可能30年整天在搞這個啦他要有完整的第三人生所以呢為這個長壽時代來臨我們社會普遍歧視老人\n\n17\n00:06:18,652 --> 00:06:36,184\n所以你用大數據輸入老人、銀髮、勒領這些稱呼依附過來都是負面的字眼所以他已經是一個被高度汙名化的大家都很怕被跟老扯上關係我辦了很多活動他說你不要用銀髮用勒領不然我就不要\n\n18\n00:06:36,644 --> 00:06:36,804\n吳春城議員\n\n19\n00:06:52,830 --> 00:06:53,070\n吳春城議員\n\n20\n00:07:09,784 --> 00:07:37,375\n那上次我把用這個資產的高低還有現金流的高低可以把這個壯士貸分成四大類型那上次呢我們在財政的委員會提出的是針對上面這兩個這個叫安穩型還有貢獻型的如何活化他們的資產那今天呢我要跟勞動部還有衛福部來請教如何針對活躍化還有這個社福的因應之道\n\n21\n00:07:38,753 --> 00:08:01,048\n首先要非常肯定勞動部最近非常積極地推出了55Plus壯世代就業促進措施還有5050壯世代就業網路的合作計畫積極地推動但是這個部長勞動部高舉壯世代的旗幟新價值讓壯世代稱為主流\n\n22\n00:08:04,239 --> 00:08:18,844\n徐部長,你說比起中高二零,你更喜歡壯世代這個稱呼,然後你覺得壯世代對號召再就業有什麼助益?有什麼幫助?我想壯世代可以讓整個這個\n\n23\n00:08:21,072 --> 00:08:21,252\n吳春城議員\n\n24\n00:08:47,095 --> 00:08:47,295\n吳春城\n\n25\n00:09:14,395 --> 00:09:14,815\n吳春城議員吳春城議員\n\n26\n00:09:35,393 --> 00:09:55,971\n那那個造成了壯實在進退兩難啊,有些人想要提早退休,其實50歲退休也不錯,不是一定要,那有些人想要延後退休,退休,有些人退休想要再回來,但是我們的退休體制現在綁手綁腳,很不方便。那造成了很多啦,特別是勞基法54條,僱主的強制年滿65歲勞工退休啦,\n\n27\n00:09:59,594 --> 00:10:28,542\n其實在這一個方面也值得來探討。像日本這個高齡雇用安定法裡面現在已經通過這個工作要延長到70歲。而且現在有很多的日本很多企業4成以上的企業都雇用75歲以上的人。甚至YKK這個也內部的規定就員工可以工作到任何的聯盟政治的做到他不想做為止。\n\n28\n00:10:29,602 --> 00:10:35,806\n此事可創造政府、企業、勞資各方面的三領。最後我想跟院長、勞動部提出請求。\n\n29\n00:10:50,646 --> 00:11:06,444\n第一點是檢討僵化的退休體制,還給人民工作的自由權。第二個是獎勵壯士在重返職場,能夠落實全面的法治化。這一點請問院長跟許部長可不可以給我們這個\n\n30\n00:11:08,266 --> 00:11:27,848\n我想讓這個退休的體制更有彈性讓鑽石代能夠繼續工作做他喜歡的工作我覺得這個是我們應該要努力的然後這樣的話有一些法制上的東西確實要修正譬如說像剛才提到的日本他是鼓勵\n\n31\n00:11:28,508 --> 00:11:28,528\n謝謝院長。\n\n32\n00:11:53,431 --> 00:12:14,605\n接下來我要請教衛福部薛部長最近您辛苦了一個單一的案件搞了全國舉國天翻地覆你也說社安網有缺陷請問部長我們的社福體系缺陷在哪裡\n\n33\n00:12:18,621 --> 00:12:28,673\n應該是整個的社會體系的話大致上可能都有一些小的問題但是今天這個案子是一個收、出、養的個案\n\n34\n00:12:29,494 --> 00:12:57,728\n收出養的個案在這個過程當中,的確從這個案子我們發現了一些比較重大的問題。這個不會是,那個只是一個表象,應該講的是一個系統性的問題,整個系統性的人口都出問題。2030年我們有一半人口要超過50歲在10年,可以用現在的社福的政策來照顧一半的人口嗎?\n\n35\n00:12:59,334 --> 00:13:25,581\n當然這中間必須要經過調整因為不管是在人力的部分的話也會出現這個很大的落差這個是一個大災問的問題不過10年也迫在眼前了所以要加緊腳步另外請問薛部長你有沒有注意到民間的浪潮有時候公務房房要看看民間浪潮現在大家\n\n36\n00:13:27,742 --> 00:13:27,982\n吳春城\n\n37\n00:13:45,622 --> 00:13:46,823\n最後我要請院長、行政院\n\n38\n00:14:11,707 --> 00:14:40,138\n還有衛福部部長是不是可以承諾兩點第一點是檢討長照政策不只是照顧更需要照料然後第二點是排除年齡歧視去除老人及淫法的稱呼可不可以這個也請問一下部長第二個部分那個老人這件事情的話會有問題因為我們很多的法規都是\n\n39\n00:14:41,204 --> 00:15:07,315\n用法律名詞已經變在那個地方。我知道,這個當然不是簡單的事情,但是你不做,這個影響層面太大了。這個影響的層面是整個的政府的當機,整個的我們未來一半人口無所適從。所以我最後的一頁我要來問一下部長,那個院長,明年進入超高齡社會,布局2025年,我覺得我們現在是有點不足,\n\n40\n00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:29,421\n必須要重新制定內閣世代循環的白皮書這個每一個部會總統跟行政院長要勇於打破框架勞動部要釋放勞動力教育部要終身教育的體制經濟部要做世代融合經濟的循環衛福部要去除引髮思維的政策速發部要科技平權世代共享\n\n41\n00:15:55,089 --> 00:15:55,269\n臨時主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7912\t7932\t吳委員長\n23511\t49839\t院長好。院長你辛苦了。今天看你更有笑容。今天是最後一場的總質詢。很高興能夠接受委員質詢。那也是最重要的一場。希望你能夠以大格局、大胸懷助台灣最後一臂之力。好不好?好。我要努力。\n52697\t76008\t1970年台灣65歲上的人佔2.9%那平均餘命平均壽命60幾歲然後60以後的人生叫做餘生就是隨便晃著晃著就掛掉了那就在這樣的一個前提下定立的叫做引法論述我們的引法官\n77448\t100293\t現在我們邁向的2040年65歲上來的人要佔人口的30.1%10倍平均壽命80幾歲那60退休以後還有很多人會有30年這叫做第三人生那這就是我所建構的叫壯世代的主張\n101854\t129995\t但是我們現在還繼續在採用舊的思維來應付面相的影響。如果這不改變,未來台灣會躺成一片。高齡者成為臥床族,我們現在臥床超過8年。還有這個少子化造成大量的躺平族。這是一個系統性的問題,但是我們現在都用枝枝節節的方式在捕破洞。\n131294\t157464\t我們用2.9%的銀髮政策在處理30%的壯世代長壽社會的來臨。所以我們現在的社福預算已經達到了8千億。難道非要破萬億不行嗎?這個看起來其實可帶。請問院長,20年後,臺灣一半的人口都要超過60歲。\n159369\t165323\t如果對高齡兒政策都沒有改變的話那我們的社福預算要多少才夠請問院長\n168523\t194649\t你也是專門專家我想委員對於這個我們少子化的問題很重視而且分析得很透徹你剛才的分析就很棒那我想未來怎麼樣讓這個壯世代能夠有自立自主而且共榮永續然後對社會有繼續有貢獻我想這是很重要的而且不只是台灣這是全球的問題\n196409\t224371\t但是台灣是全世界最嚴重的,跟南韓。我們在2055年會超越日本,成為全世界比日本還老的國家。後面還有很多要問院長。在我跟各部會最近大概都有溝通,我發現每一個部會的政策都在歧視高齡者,但是他們都無可奈何。\n226701\t245122\t眾口都指向衛福部的引法思維。好像這沒辦法,這都是上面交代。上面的,我不曉得上面是誰,上面是院長你嗎?不是我。也不是你,然後是蔡總統嗎?確實像委員講的這一些,有一些法規上我們確實是把...這是一個系統性的問題。對。\n246323\t260534\t所以這個院長這個台灣進入長壽社會那我看出來我們整個請全力都在打造60歲以前的人生這個社會非常的繁榮但是你只要推開60歲這扇大門一看\n263616\t265077\t當然政府應該要一起努力,還有跟企業界\n294074\t310388\t政府的責任。但是感謝院長在3月19日的時候我在財政的總詢詢當中院長也承諾了建立壯世代金融行動方案而且要求上市櫃公司\n312336\t325851\t提出高齡社會的永續報告希望這個會追蹤落實同時陳院長在那時候我有問你對於2023年行政院提出的超高齡社會對策\n328679\t350592\t請問院長你這些有哪一些是你所需求的?我想可能我們現在考慮到60歲以上的壯士代實際上他能夠不管是在社會參與在產業的參與或者是在健康生活上都能夠越來越健康然後越來越有活力\n351352\t377782\t所以很多的長照政策實際上也要注意到這個健康者。現在2023年看起來大家都還是圍繞在這幾個項目嘛這個醫療、養生、照顧的這一些層面但是不可能30年整天在搞這個啦他要有完整的第三人生所以呢為這個長壽時代來臨我們社會普遍歧視老人\n378652\t396184\t所以你用大數據輸入老人、銀髮、勒領這些稱呼依附過來都是負面的字眼所以他已經是一個被高度汙名化的大家都很怕被跟老扯上關係我辦了很多活動他說你不要用銀髮用勒領不然我就不要\n396644\t396804\t吳春城議員\n412830\t413070\t吳春城議員\n429784\t457375\t那上次我把用這個資產的高低還有現金流的高低可以把這個壯士貸分成四大類型那上次呢我們在財政的委員會提出的是針對上面這兩個這個叫安穩型還有貢獻型的如何活化他們的資產那今天呢我要跟勞動部還有衛福部來請教如何針對活躍化還有這個社福的因應之道\n458753\t481048\t首先要非常肯定勞動部最近非常積極地推出了55Plus壯世代就業促進措施還有5050壯世代就業網路的合作計畫積極地推動但是這個部長勞動部高舉壯世代的旗幟新價值讓壯世代稱為主流\n484239\t498844\t徐部長,你說比起中高二零,你更喜歡壯世代這個稱呼,然後你覺得壯世代對號召再就業有什麼助益?有什麼幫助?我想壯世代可以讓整個這個\n501072\t501252\t吳春城議員\n527095\t527295\t吳春城\n554395\t554815\t吳春城議員吳春城議員\n575393\t595971\t那那個造成了壯實在進退兩難啊,有些人想要提早退休,其實50歲退休也不錯,不是一定要,那有些人想要延後退休,退休,有些人退休想要再回來,但是我們的退休體制現在綁手綁腳,很不方便。那造成了很多啦,特別是勞基法54條,僱主的強制年滿65歲勞工退休啦,\n599594\t628542\t其實在這一個方面也值得來探討。像日本這個高齡雇用安定法裡面現在已經通過這個工作要延長到70歲。而且現在有很多的日本很多企業4成以上的企業都雇用75歲以上的人。甚至YKK這個也內部的規定就員工可以工作到任何的聯盟政治的做到他不想做為止。\n629602\t635806\t此事可創造政府、企業、勞資各方面的三領。最後我想跟院長、勞動部提出請求。\n650646\t666444\t第一點是檢討僵化的退休體制,還給人民工作的自由權。第二個是獎勵壯士在重返職場,能夠落實全面的法治化。這一點請問院長跟許部長可不可以給我們這個\n668266\t687848\t我想讓這個退休的體制更有彈性讓鑽石代能夠繼續工作做他喜歡的工作我覺得這個是我們應該要努力的然後這樣的話有一些法制上的東西確實要修正譬如說像剛才提到的日本他是鼓勵\n688508\t688528\t謝謝院長。\n713431\t734605\t接下來我要請教衛福部薛部長最近您辛苦了一個單一的案件搞了全國舉國天翻地覆你也說社安網有缺陷請問部長我們的社福體系缺陷在哪裡\n738621\t748673\t應該是整個的社會體系的話大致上可能都有一些小的問題但是今天這個案子是一個收、出、養的個案\n749494\t777728\t收出養的個案在這個過程當中,的確從這個案子我們發現了一些比較重大的問題。這個不會是,那個只是一個表象,應該講的是一個系統性的問題,整個系統性的人口都出問題。2030年我們有一半人口要超過50歲在10年,可以用現在的社福的政策來照顧一半的人口嗎?\n779334\t805581\t當然這中間必須要經過調整因為不管是在人力的部分的話也會出現這個很大的落差這個是一個大災問的問題不過10年也迫在眼前了所以要加緊腳步另外請問薛部長你有沒有注意到民間的浪潮有時候公務房房要看看民間浪潮現在大家\n807742\t807982\t吳春城\n825622\t826823\t最後我要請院長、行政院\n851707\t880138\t還有衛福部部長是不是可以承諾兩點第一點是檢討長照政策不只是照顧更需要照料然後第二點是排除年齡歧視去除老人及淫法的稱呼可不可以這個也請問一下部長第二個部分那個老人這件事情的話會有問題因為我們很多的法規都是\n881204\t907315\t用法律名詞已經變在那個地方。我知道,這個當然不是簡單的事情,但是你不做,這個影響層面太大了。這個影響的層面是整個的政府的當機,整個的我們未來一半人口無所適從。所以我最後的一頁我要來問一下部長,那個院長,明年進入超高齡社會,布局2025年,我覺得我們現在是有點不足,\n908140\t929421\t必須要重新制定內閣世代循環的白皮書這個每一個部會總統跟行政院長要勇於打破框架勞動部要釋放勞動力教育部要終身教育的體制經濟部要做世代融合經濟的循環衛福部要去除引髮思維的政策速發部要科技平權世代共享\n955089\t955269\t臨時主席\n","txt":"吳委員長\n院長好。院長你辛苦了。今天看你更有笑容。今天是最後一場的總質詢。很高興能夠接受委員質詢。那也是最重要的一場。希望你能夠以大格局、大胸懷助台灣最後一臂之力。好不好?好。我要努力。\n1970年台灣65歲上的人佔2.9%那平均餘命平均壽命60幾歲然後60以後的人生叫做餘生就是隨便晃著晃著就掛掉了那就在這樣的一個前提下定立的叫做引法論述我們的引法官\n現在我們邁向的2040年65歲上來的人要佔人口的30.1%10倍平均壽命80幾歲那60退休以後還有很多人會有30年這叫做第三人生那這就是我所建構的叫壯世代的主張\n但是我們現在還繼續在採用舊的思維來應付面相的影響。如果這不改變,未來台灣會躺成一片。高齡者成為臥床族,我們現在臥床超過8年。還有這個少子化造成大量的躺平族。這是一個系統性的問題,但是我們現在都用枝枝節節的方式在捕破洞。\n我們用2.9%的銀髮政策在處理30%的壯世代長壽社會的來臨。所以我們現在的社福預算已經達到了8千億。難道非要破萬億不行嗎?這個看起來其實可帶。請問院長,20年後,臺灣一半的人口都要超過60歲。\n如果對高齡兒政策都沒有改變的話那我們的社福預算要多少才夠請問院長\n你也是專門專家我想委員對於這個我們少子化的問題很重視而且分析得很透徹你剛才的分析就很棒那我想未來怎麼樣讓這個壯世代能夠有自立自主而且共榮永續然後對社會有繼續有貢獻我想這是很重要的而且不只是台灣這是全球的問題\n但是台灣是全世界最嚴重的,跟南韓。我們在2055年會超越日本,成為全世界比日本還老的國家。後面還有很多要問院長。在我跟各部會最近大概都有溝通,我發現每一個部會的政策都在歧視高齡者,但是他們都無可奈何。\n眾口都指向衛福部的引法思維。好像這沒辦法,這都是上面交代。上面的,我不曉得上面是誰,上面是院長你嗎?不是我。也不是你,然後是蔡總統嗎?確實像委員講的這一些,有一些法規上我們確實是把...這是一個系統性的問題。對。\n所以這個院長這個台灣進入長壽社會那我看出來我們整個請全力都在打造60歲以前的人生這個社會非常的繁榮但是你只要推開60歲這扇大門一看\n當然政府應該要一起努力,還有跟企業界\n政府的責任。但是感謝院長在3月19日的時候我在財政的總詢詢當中院長也承諾了建立壯世代金融行動方案而且要求上市櫃公司\n提出高齡社會的永續報告希望這個會追蹤落實同時陳院長在那時候我有問你對於2023年行政院提出的超高齡社會對策\n請問院長你這些有哪一些是你所需求的?我想可能我們現在考慮到60歲以上的壯士代實際上他能夠不管是在社會參與在產業的參與或者是在健康生活上都能夠越來越健康然後越來越有活力\n所以很多的長照政策實際上也要注意到這個健康者。現在2023年看起來大家都還是圍繞在這幾個項目嘛這個醫療、養生、照顧的這一些層面但是不可能30年整天在搞這個啦他要有完整的第三人生所以呢為這個長壽時代來臨我們社會普遍歧視老人\n所以你用大數據輸入老人、銀髮、勒領這些稱呼依附過來都是負面的字眼所以他已經是一個被高度汙名化的大家都很怕被跟老扯上關係我辦了很多活動他說你不要用銀髮用勒領不然我就不要\n吳春城議員\n吳春城議員\n那上次我把用這個資產的高低還有現金流的高低可以把這個壯士貸分成四大類型那上次呢我們在財政的委員會提出的是針對上面這兩個這個叫安穩型還有貢獻型的如何活化他們的資產那今天呢我要跟勞動部還有衛福部來請教如何針對活躍化還有這個社福的因應之道\n首先要非常肯定勞動部最近非常積極地推出了55Plus壯世代就業促進措施還有5050壯世代就業網路的合作計畫積極地推動但是這個部長勞動部高舉壯世代的旗幟新價值讓壯世代稱為主流\n徐部長,你說比起中高二零,你更喜歡壯世代這個稱呼,然後你覺得壯世代對號召再就業有什麼助益?有什麼幫助?我想壯世代可以讓整個這個\n吳春城議員\n吳春城\n吳春城議員吳春城議員\n那那個造成了壯實在進退兩難啊,有些人想要提早退休,其實50歲退休也不錯,不是一定要,那有些人想要延後退休,退休,有些人退休想要再回來,但是我們的退休體制現在綁手綁腳,很不方便。那造成了很多啦,特別是勞基法54條,僱主的強制年滿65歲勞工退休啦,\n其實在這一個方面也值得來探討。像日本這個高齡雇用安定法裡面現在已經通過這個工作要延長到70歲。而且現在有很多的日本很多企業4成以上的企業都雇用75歲以上的人。甚至YKK這個也內部的規定就員工可以工作到任何的聯盟政治的做到他不想做為止。\n此事可創造政府、企業、勞資各方面的三領。最後我想跟院長、勞動部提出請求。\n第一點是檢討僵化的退休體制,還給人民工作的自由權。第二個是獎勵壯士在重返職場,能夠落實全面的法治化。這一點請問院長跟許部長可不可以給我們這個\n我想讓這個退休的體制更有彈性讓鑽石代能夠繼續工作做他喜歡的工作我覺得這個是我們應該要努力的然後這樣的話有一些法制上的東西確實要修正譬如說像剛才提到的日本他是鼓勵\n謝謝院長。\n接下來我要請教衛福部薛部長最近您辛苦了一個單一的案件搞了全國舉國天翻地覆你也說社安網有缺陷請問部長我們的社福體系缺陷在哪裡\n應該是整個的社會體系的話大致上可能都有一些小的問題但是今天這個案子是一個收、出、養的個案\n收出養的個案在這個過程當中,的確從這個案子我們發現了一些比較重大的問題。這個不會是,那個只是一個表象,應該講的是一個系統性的問題,整個系統性的人口都出問題。2030年我們有一半人口要超過50歲在10年,可以用現在的社福的政策來照顧一半的人口嗎?\n當然這中間必須要經過調整因為不管是在人力的部分的話也會出現這個很大的落差這個是一個大災問的問題不過10年也迫在眼前了所以要加緊腳步另外請問薛部長你有沒有注意到民間的浪潮有時候公務房房要看看民間浪潮現在大家\n吳春城\n最後我要請院長、行政院\n還有衛福部部長是不是可以承諾兩點第一點是檢討長照政策不只是照顧更需要照料然後第二點是排除年齡歧視去除老人及淫法的稱呼可不可以這個也請問一下部長第二個部分那個老人這件事情的話會有問題因為我們很多的法規都是\n用法律名詞已經變在那個地方。我知道,這個當然不是簡單的事情,但是你不做,這個影響層面太大了。這個影響的層面是整個的政府的當機,整個的我們未來一半人口無所適從。所以我最後的一頁我要來問一下部長,那個院長,明年進入超高齡社會,布局2025年,我覺得我們現在是有點不足,\n必須要重新制定內閣世代循環的白皮書這個每一個部會總統跟行政院長要勇於打破框架勞動部要釋放勞動力教育部要終身教育的體制經濟部要做世代融合經濟的循環衛福部要去除引髮思維的政策速發部要科技平權世代共享\n臨時主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.912 --> 00:07.932\n吳委員長\n\n00:23.511 --> 00:49.839\n院長好。院長你辛苦了。今天看你更有笑容。今天是最後一場的總質詢。很高興能夠接受委員質詢。那也是最重要的一場。希望你能夠以大格局、大胸懷助台灣最後一臂之力。好不好?好。我要努力。\n\n00:52.697 --> 01:16.008\n1970年台灣65歲上的人佔2.9%那平均餘命平均壽命60幾歲然後60以後的人生叫做餘生就是隨便晃著晃著就掛掉了那就在這樣的一個前提下定立的叫做引法論述我們的引法官\n\n01:17.448 --> 01:40.293\n現在我們邁向的2040年65歲上來的人要佔人口的30.1%10倍平均壽命80幾歲那60退休以後還有很多人會有30年這叫做第三人生那這就是我所建構的叫壯世代的主張\n\n01:41.854 --> 02:09.995\n但是我們現在還繼續在採用舊的思維來應付面相的影響。如果這不改變,未來台灣會躺成一片。高齡者成為臥床族,我們現在臥床超過8年。還有這個少子化造成大量的躺平族。這是一個系統性的問題,但是我們現在都用枝枝節節的方式在捕破洞。\n\n02:11.294 --> 02:37.464\n我們用2.9%的銀髮政策在處理30%的壯世代長壽社會的來臨。所以我們現在的社福預算已經達到了8千億。難道非要破萬億不行嗎?這個看起來其實可帶。請問院長,20年後,臺灣一半的人口都要超過60歲。\n\n02:39.369 --> 02:45.323\n如果對高齡兒政策都沒有改變的話那我們的社福預算要多少才夠請問院長\n\n02:48.523 --> 03:14.649\n你也是專門專家我想委員對於這個我們少子化的問題很重視而且分析得很透徹你剛才的分析就很棒那我想未來怎麼樣讓這個壯世代能夠有自立自主而且共榮永續然後對社會有繼續有貢獻我想這是很重要的而且不只是台灣這是全球的問題\n\n03:16.409 --> 03:44.371\n但是台灣是全世界最嚴重的,跟南韓。我們在2055年會超越日本,成為全世界比日本還老的國家。後面還有很多要問院長。在我跟各部會最近大概都有溝通,我發現每一個部會的政策都在歧視高齡者,但是他們都無可奈何。\n\n03:46.701 --> 04:05.122\n眾口都指向衛福部的引法思維。好像這沒辦法,這都是上面交代。上面的,我不曉得上面是誰,上面是院長你嗎?不是我。也不是你,然後是蔡總統嗎?確實像委員講的這一些,有一些法規上我們確實是把...這是一個系統性的問題。對。\n\n04:06.323 --> 04:20.534\n所以這個院長這個台灣進入長壽社會那我看出來我們整個請全力都在打造60歲以前的人生這個社會非常的繁榮但是你只要推開60歲這扇大門一看\n\n04:23.616 --> 04:25.077\n當然政府應該要一起努力,還有跟企業界\n\n04:54.074 --> 05:10.388\n政府的責任。但是感謝院長在3月19日的時候我在財政的總詢詢當中院長也承諾了建立壯世代金融行動方案而且要求上市櫃公司\n\n05:12.336 --> 05:25.851\n提出高齡社會的永續報告希望這個會追蹤落實同時陳院長在那時候我有問你對於2023年行政院提出的超高齡社會對策\n\n05:28.679 --> 05:50.592\n請問院長你這些有哪一些是你所需求的?我想可能我們現在考慮到60歲以上的壯士代實際上他能夠不管是在社會參與在產業的參與或者是在健康生活上都能夠越來越健康然後越來越有活力\n\n05:51.352 --> 06:17.782\n所以很多的長照政策實際上也要注意到這個健康者。現在2023年看起來大家都還是圍繞在這幾個項目嘛這個醫療、養生、照顧的這一些層面但是不可能30年整天在搞這個啦他要有完整的第三人生所以呢為這個長壽時代來臨我們社會普遍歧視老人\n\n06:18.652 --> 06:36.184\n所以你用大數據輸入老人、銀髮、勒領這些稱呼依附過來都是負面的字眼所以他已經是一個被高度汙名化的大家都很怕被跟老扯上關係我辦了很多活動他說你不要用銀髮用勒領不然我就不要\n\n06:36.644 --> 06:36.804\n吳春城議員\n\n06:52.830 --> 06:53.070\n吳春城議員\n\n07:09.784 --> 07:37.375\n那上次我把用這個資產的高低還有現金流的高低可以把這個壯士貸分成四大類型那上次呢我們在財政的委員會提出的是針對上面這兩個這個叫安穩型還有貢獻型的如何活化他們的資產那今天呢我要跟勞動部還有衛福部來請教如何針對活躍化還有這個社福的因應之道\n\n07:38.753 --> 08:01.048\n首先要非常肯定勞動部最近非常積極地推出了55Plus壯世代就業促進措施還有5050壯世代就業網路的合作計畫積極地推動但是這個部長勞動部高舉壯世代的旗幟新價值讓壯世代稱為主流\n\n08:04.239 --> 08:18.844\n徐部長,你說比起中高二零,你更喜歡壯世代這個稱呼,然後你覺得壯世代對號召再就業有什麼助益?有什麼幫助?我想壯世代可以讓整個這個\n\n08:21.072 --> 08:21.252\n吳春城議員\n\n08:47.095 --> 08:47.295\n吳春城\n\n09:14.395 --> 09:14.815\n吳春城議員吳春城議員\n\n09:35.393 --> 09:55.971\n那那個造成了壯實在進退兩難啊,有些人想要提早退休,其實50歲退休也不錯,不是一定要,那有些人想要延後退休,退休,有些人退休想要再回來,但是我們的退休體制現在綁手綁腳,很不方便。那造成了很多啦,特別是勞基法54條,僱主的強制年滿65歲勞工退休啦,\n\n09:59.594 --> 10:28.542\n其實在這一個方面也值得來探討。像日本這個高齡雇用安定法裡面現在已經通過這個工作要延長到70歲。而且現在有很多的日本很多企業4成以上的企業都雇用75歲以上的人。甚至YKK這個也內部的規定就員工可以工作到任何的聯盟政治的做到他不想做為止。\n\n10:29.602 --> 10:35.806\n此事可創造政府、企業、勞資各方面的三領。最後我想跟院長、勞動部提出請求。\n\n10:50.646 --> 11:06.444\n第一點是檢討僵化的退休體制,還給人民工作的自由權。第二個是獎勵壯士在重返職場,能夠落實全面的法治化。這一點請問院長跟許部長可不可以給我們這個\n\n11:08.266 --> 11:27.848\n我想讓這個退休的體制更有彈性讓鑽石代能夠繼續工作做他喜歡的工作我覺得這個是我們應該要努力的然後這樣的話有一些法制上的東西確實要修正譬如說像剛才提到的日本他是鼓勵\n\n11:28.508 --> 11:28.528\n謝謝院長。\n\n11:53.431 --> 12:14.605\n接下來我要請教衛福部薛部長最近您辛苦了一個單一的案件搞了全國舉國天翻地覆你也說社安網有缺陷請問部長我們的社福體系缺陷在哪裡\n\n12:18.621 --> 12:28.673\n應該是整個的社會體系的話大致上可能都有一些小的問題但是今天這個案子是一個收、出、養的個案\n\n12:29.494 --> 12:57.728\n收出養的個案在這個過程當中,的確從這個案子我們發現了一些比較重大的問題。這個不會是,那個只是一個表象,應該講的是一個系統性的問題,整個系統性的人口都出問題。2030年我們有一半人口要超過50歲在10年,可以用現在的社福的政策來照顧一半的人口嗎?\n\n12:59.334 --> 13:25.581\n當然這中間必須要經過調整因為不管是在人力的部分的話也會出現這個很大的落差這個是一個大災問的問題不過10年也迫在眼前了所以要加緊腳步另外請問薛部長你有沒有注意到民間的浪潮有時候公務房房要看看民間浪潮現在大家\n\n13:27.742 --> 13:27.982\n吳春城\n\n13:45.622 --> 13:46.823\n最後我要請院長、行政院\n\n14:11.707 --> 14:40.138\n還有衛福部部長是不是可以承諾兩點第一點是檢討長照政策不只是照顧更需要照料然後第二點是排除年齡歧視去除老人及淫法的稱呼可不可以這個也請問一下部長第二個部分那個老人這件事情的話會有問題因為我們很多的法規都是\n\n14:41.204 --> 15:07.315\n用法律名詞已經變在那個地方。我知道,這個當然不是簡單的事情,但是你不做,這個影響層面太大了。這個影響的層面是整個的政府的當機,整個的我們未來一半人口無所適從。所以我最後的一頁我要來問一下部長,那個院長,明年進入超高齡社會,布局2025年,我覺得我們現在是有點不足,\n\n15:08.140 --> 15:29.421\n必須要重新制定內閣世代循環的白皮書這個每一個部會總統跟行政院長要勇於打破框架勞動部要釋放勞動力教育部要終身教育的體制經濟部要做世代融合經濟的循環衛福部要去除引髮思維的政策速發部要科技平權世代共享\n\n15:55.089 --> 15:55.269\n臨時主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.912,"end":7.932,"text":"吳委員長"},{"start":23.511,"end":49.839,"text":"院長好。院長你辛苦了。今天看你更有笑容。今天是最後一場的總質詢。很高興能夠接受委員質詢。那也是最重要的一場。希望你能夠以大格局、大胸懷助台灣最後一臂之力。好不好?好。我要努力。"},{"start":52.697,"end":76.008,"text":"1970年台灣65歲上的人佔2.9%那平均餘命平均壽命60幾歲然後60以後的人生叫做餘生就是隨便晃著晃著就掛掉了那就在這樣的一個前提下定立的叫做引法論述我們的引法官"},{"start":77.448,"end":100.293,"text":"現在我們邁向的2040年65歲上來的人要佔人口的30.1%10倍平均壽命80幾歲那60退休以後還有很多人會有30年這叫做第三人生那這就是我所建構的叫壯世代的主張"},{"start":101.854,"end":129.995,"text":"但是我們現在還繼續在採用舊的思維來應付面相的影響。如果這不改變,未來台灣會躺成一片。高齡者成為臥床族,我們現在臥床超過8年。還有這個少子化造成大量的躺平族。這是一個系統性的問題,但是我們現在都用枝枝節節的方式在捕破洞。"},{"start":131.294,"end":157.464,"text":"我們用2.9%的銀髮政策在處理30%的壯世代長壽社會的來臨。所以我們現在的社福預算已經達到了8千億。難道非要破萬億不行嗎?這個看起來其實可帶。請問院長,20年後,臺灣一半的人口都要超過60歲。"},{"start":159.369,"end":165.323,"text":"如果對高齡兒政策都沒有改變的話那我們的社福預算要多少才夠請問院長"},{"start":168.523,"end":194.649,"text":"你也是專門專家我想委員對於這個我們少子化的問題很重視而且分析得很透徹你剛才的分析就很棒那我想未來怎麼樣讓這個壯世代能夠有自立自主而且共榮永續然後對社會有繼續有貢獻我想這是很重要的而且不只是台灣這是全球的問題"},{"start":196.409,"end":224.371,"text":"但是台灣是全世界最嚴重的,跟南韓。我們在2055年會超越日本,成為全世界比日本還老的國家。後面還有很多要問院長。在我跟各部會最近大概都有溝通,我發現每一個部會的政策都在歧視高齡者,但是他們都無可奈何。"},{"start":226.701,"end":245.122,"text":"眾口都指向衛福部的引法思維。好像這沒辦法,這都是上面交代。上面的,我不曉得上面是誰,上面是院長你嗎?不是我。也不是你,然後是蔡總統嗎?確實像委員講的這一些,有一些法規上我們確實是把...這是一個系統性的問題。對。"},{"start":246.323,"end":260.534,"text":"所以這個院長這個台灣進入長壽社會那我看出來我們整個請全力都在打造60歲以前的人生這個社會非常的繁榮但是你只要推開60歲這扇大門一看"},{"start":263.616,"end":265.077,"text":"當然政府應該要一起努力,還有跟企業界"},{"start":294.074,"end":310.388,"text":"政府的責任。但是感謝院長在3月19日的時候我在財政的總詢詢當中院長也承諾了建立壯世代金融行動方案而且要求上市櫃公司"},{"start":312.336,"end":325.851,"text":"提出高齡社會的永續報告希望這個會追蹤落實同時陳院長在那時候我有問你對於2023年行政院提出的超高齡社會對策"},{"start":328.679,"end":350.592,"text":"請問院長你這些有哪一些是你所需求的?我想可能我們現在考慮到60歲以上的壯士代實際上他能夠不管是在社會參與在產業的參與或者是在健康生活上都能夠越來越健康然後越來越有活力"},{"start":351.352,"end":377.782,"text":"所以很多的長照政策實際上也要注意到這個健康者。現在2023年看起來大家都還是圍繞在這幾個項目嘛這個醫療、養生、照顧的這一些層面但是不可能30年整天在搞這個啦他要有完整的第三人生所以呢為這個長壽時代來臨我們社會普遍歧視老人"},{"start":378.652,"end":396.184,"text":"所以你用大數據輸入老人、銀髮、勒領這些稱呼依附過來都是負面的字眼所以他已經是一個被高度汙名化的大家都很怕被跟老扯上關係我辦了很多活動他說你不要用銀髮用勒領不然我就不要"},{"start":396.644,"end":396.804,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":412.83,"end":413.07,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":429.784,"end":457.375,"text":"那上次我把用這個資產的高低還有現金流的高低可以把這個壯士貸分成四大類型那上次呢我們在財政的委員會提出的是針對上面這兩個這個叫安穩型還有貢獻型的如何活化他們的資產那今天呢我要跟勞動部還有衛福部來請教如何針對活躍化還有這個社福的因應之道"},{"start":458.753,"end":481.048,"text":"首先要非常肯定勞動部最近非常積極地推出了55Plus壯世代就業促進措施還有5050壯世代就業網路的合作計畫積極地推動但是這個部長勞動部高舉壯世代的旗幟新價值讓壯世代稱為主流"},{"start":484.239,"end":498.844,"text":"徐部長,你說比起中高二零,你更喜歡壯世代這個稱呼,然後你覺得壯世代對號召再就業有什麼助益?有什麼幫助?我想壯世代可以讓整個這個"},{"start":501.072,"end":501.252,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":527.095,"end":527.295,"text":"吳春城"},{"start":554.395,"end":554.815,"text":"吳春城議員吳春城議員"},{"start":575.393,"end":595.971,"text":"那那個造成了壯實在進退兩難啊,有些人想要提早退休,其實50歲退休也不錯,不是一定要,那有些人想要延後退休,退休,有些人退休想要再回來,但是我們的退休體制現在綁手綁腳,很不方便。那造成了很多啦,特別是勞基法54條,僱主的強制年滿65歲勞工退休啦,"},{"start":599.594,"end":628.542,"text":"其實在這一個方面也值得來探討。像日本這個高齡雇用安定法裡面現在已經通過這個工作要延長到70歲。而且現在有很多的日本很多企業4成以上的企業都雇用75歲以上的人。甚至YKK這個也內部的規定就員工可以工作到任何的聯盟政治的做到他不想做為止。"},{"start":629.602,"end":635.806,"text":"此事可創造政府、企業、勞資各方面的三領。最後我想跟院長、勞動部提出請求。"},{"start":650.646,"end":666.444,"text":"第一點是檢討僵化的退休體制,還給人民工作的自由權。第二個是獎勵壯士在重返職場,能夠落實全面的法治化。這一點請問院長跟許部長可不可以給我們這個"},{"start":668.266,"end":687.848,"text":"我想讓這個退休的體制更有彈性讓鑽石代能夠繼續工作做他喜歡的工作我覺得這個是我們應該要努力的然後這樣的話有一些法制上的東西確實要修正譬如說像剛才提到的日本他是鼓勵"},{"start":688.508,"end":688.528,"text":"謝謝院長。"},{"start":713.431,"end":734.605,"text":"接下來我要請教衛福部薛部長最近您辛苦了一個單一的案件搞了全國舉國天翻地覆你也說社安網有缺陷請問部長我們的社福體系缺陷在哪裡"},{"start":738.621,"end":748.673,"text":"應該是整個的社會體系的話大致上可能都有一些小的問題但是今天這個案子是一個收、出、養的個案"},{"start":749.494,"end":777.728,"text":"收出養的個案在這個過程當中,的確從這個案子我們發現了一些比較重大的問題。這個不會是,那個只是一個表象,應該講的是一個系統性的問題,整個系統性的人口都出問題。2030年我們有一半人口要超過50歲在10年,可以用現在的社福的政策來照顧一半的人口嗎?"},{"start":779.334,"end":805.581,"text":"當然這中間必須要經過調整因為不管是在人力的部分的話也會出現這個很大的落差這個是一個大災問的問題不過10年也迫在眼前了所以要加緊腳步另外請問薛部長你有沒有注意到民間的浪潮有時候公務房房要看看民間浪潮現在大家"},{"start":807.742,"end":807.982,"text":"吳春城"},{"start":825.622,"end":826.823,"text":"最後我要請院長、行政院"},{"start":851.707,"end":880.138,"text":"還有衛福部部長是不是可以承諾兩點第一點是檢討長照政策不只是照顧更需要照料然後第二點是排除年齡歧視去除老人及淫法的稱呼可不可以這個也請問一下部長第二個部分那個老人這件事情的話會有問題因為我們很多的法規都是"},{"start":881.204,"end":907.315,"text":"用法律名詞已經變在那個地方。我知道,這個當然不是簡單的事情,但是你不做,這個影響層面太大了。這個影響的層面是整個的政府的當機,整個的我們未來一半人口無所適從。所以我最後的一頁我要來問一下部長,那個院長,明年進入超高齡社會,布局2025年,我覺得我們現在是有點不足,"},{"start":908.14,"end":929.421,"text":"必須要重新制定內閣世代循環的白皮書這個每一個部會總統跟行政院長要勇於打破框架勞動部要釋放勞動力教育部要終身教育的體制經濟部要做世代融合經濟的循環衛福部要去除引髮思維的政策速發部要科技平權世代共享"},{"start":955.089,"end":955.269,"text":"臨時主席"}]}}}}