{"id":150436,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150436","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d566de86f1c4b251e6a3d9204d572e03aff8ba9b0039caa7a67cb136f02ab460f55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:14:34 - 09:23:29","影片長度":"00:08:55","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案(含報告事項45案及討論事項4案)。【如經復議則不予處理或審查】\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】\n【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":535,"end_time":"2024-03-27T09:23:29+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T09:14:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時14分）主席好，有請薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：林委員好。"],["林委員月琴：薛部長早。上次環境部業務報告的時候，我就非常關心碳費審議的進度，當時我提到碳費審議委員會的組成要注意公民團體、工商界及學界的比例，在名單公布後，我看到環境部有顧及到各領域，組成比例還算及格。不過今天我重點要提醒的是，未來環境部碳費審議在金額確定前，仍然還有很多工作是不能等的，甚至有些正在發生，所以環境部必須要去做處理。"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。"],["林委員月琴：首先，我們先看一下考古題，這上次我問過了，就是上次質詢的時候有提出環境部在碳費徵收上是不是還會增加2.5萬噸的扣除額，當時部長的回答是會交給委員會去決定。所以想問部長，請問目前這題有討論嗎？討論進度為何？委員會內部是不是有共識？"],["薛部長富盛：跟林委員報告，事實上目前還沒有進入到實質的討論，但是我們環境部內部的討論，是覺得這2.5萬噸對於假如它沒有去享受包括碳洩漏係數的部分，他們是可以擁有這2.5萬噸的扣除額；但是它假如採用碳洩漏係數，事實上它還會乘一個比例，它不可以兩邊都享受優惠，所以會把它剔除掉。"],["林委員月琴：部長，本席還是希望環境部能夠堅持取消2.5萬噸的扣除額，因為要真正落實減碳的目的，為什麼？因為臺灣在歐盟、美國法規越來越嚴格的時候，實在沒有等待的機會，所以我們本來就要加快腳步去補不足的地方，這部分你要去做考量。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["林委員月琴：再來，一樣是考古題，上次我這邊就有提過氣候變遷因應法第二十九條第一項關於優惠的部分，請問目前討論進度為何？"],["薛部長富盛：跟委員報告，我們在給碳費審議委員會委員的資料裡面大概都有這個部分，會針對碳洩漏的程度、風險性給予不同比例的折扣，事實上我們草案是有啦！委員會好像也還沒有討論到那個部分，在下一次的會議裡面他們應該會討論。"],["林委員月琴：因為新聞提到你的折扣非常非常的大，這是環境部表示的，所以當然我們會有一些擔憂，那實質上就沒辦法去改變，甚至也沒辦法達標，這個還是要提醒環境部。當然更重要的是，部長，從新聞報導我們看到碳費的訂定，工商界、環境部及環保團體對碳費的期待落差非常大，字面上是100、300、500，看起來沒有差很多，可是對企業可能是幾百億的差異，對國家基金的收入可能是上百億。"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。"],["林委員月琴：部長，依照碳費費率審議會設置要點第八條規定，要出席委員過半數的同意才能夠決議；出席委員正反意見同數時，由主席裁決之。所以目前我們碳費審議委員會的機制是過半數決定嗎？碳費目前就有三種不同的意見，就是有100、300、500，如果大家意見分歧的時候，你怎麼去決定？環境部一定會讓會議主席去參考委員意見做最後決定，還是會投票用多數決？"],["薛部長富盛：跟委員報告，大家以喊價的方式，事實上並不適當啦！所以昨天委員會的決議，我感到很欣慰，他們說請環境部提供以科學為基礎，更客觀的條件，讓委員可以去討論，討論完以後，他們也可能是決定不同的作法，再由環境部來做整體的決議。所以當然很多包括媒體記者可能也會說，環境部本來是表示3月底要公布碳費的費率，可是林委員應該很瞭解這個情況，我們要由委員去投票決定一個費率，這種事情5分鐘就可以決定了，但是我非常欣慰，就是我們委員非常理性、非常有智慧，他們覺得應該提出來討論，用科學為基礎，所以我們就尊重委員會的決議。"],["林委員月琴：如果在月底之前沒辦法決定，是不是在520之前可以決定？"],["薛部長富盛：因為這是委員會的權責，我想我也不越權，但站在環境部的立場，就是趕快把子法去做預告的工作，把周遭該做的如法制面，環境部該做的就把它做完。至於什麼時候決定費率，我想就請委員會多辛勞一點。"],["林委員月琴：可是這個影響非常的大，為什麼？因為當這沒有決定，我們電費要上漲的時候，如果碳費要徵收的話，就會引起很大的物價波動，這對民眾是實質有感的。電費要漲，每個家庭跟工商團體、企業都會因為電費而產生增加成本3%到10%，可是碳費徵收目前不確定，是100到500之間，但受影響的層面，民生、物資都會受到影響。可是環境部一直沒有對外說明，那就會造成疑似有業者因為徵收碳費而對消費者哄抬價格的狀況，但是環境部對於這種哄抬價格竟然只呼籲說不要做、不要做，這好像是哆啦A夢卡通裡叫胖虎不要欺負大雄一樣，根本是不可能的事情，所以不能只有這樣子講而已。","再來，若漫天喊價，馬上會碰到的就是房價，幾乎所有的原因都會被拿來做文章，從原物料上漲、人力上漲、交通區位、國家政策，房市都是第一時間反映。我有年輕的夥伴們目前有購屋的打算，可是現在他去看了4、5家的預售屋代銷，已經有房仲跟他講可能會漲價，原因是因為碳費要徵收所以會漲價，所以鼓勵要儘快買，不是看一家、講一家，是在看了4家、5家都這麼講的時候，當然就會讓人家擔心。當然這個話術事實上是可以解讀為銷售的手段，可是會不會在民眾不知道的時候，他從媒體也有看到一些建商在講這些，那是不是就造成一些困擾？","本來年輕人就已經買不起房子，在目前這樣講不清楚的情況下，然後漫天喊價繼續惡化的話，房市是不是會飆漲？讓年輕人更買不起房，所以是不是應該要去做說明？請問部長，目前是不是有掌握疑似因徵收碳費而哄抬房價、物價的狀況？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上，目前我們所瞭解的都是在喊價階段，因為環境部對於營造商或者建設公司表示房地產會漲15%到35%，我們也用新聞稿去駁斥。"],["林委員月琴：所以第一個，是不是可以確認我國收取碳費與國際接軌，不要讓企業重複課稅。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["林委員月琴：不要在臺灣收了碳費，到國外的時候又再被收。","再來是防堵因徵收碳費惡意哄抬價格，我覺得應該要有聯合稽查小組。此外，預防預期心理，不要讓碳費徵收影響個別行業，所以我覺得環境部要對外說明清楚。以上，謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝林委員的提醒。"],["主席：謝謝林月琴委員。","接下來請陳菁徽委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-9","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","陳菁徽","劉建國","盧縣一","陳昭姿","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","洪申翰","李彥秀","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","黃國昌","陳冠廷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132102_00002","1132102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍\n結案49案（含報告事項45案及討論事項4案）（前接第一冊）","agenda_id":"1132102_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150436","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150436","tool":"pyannote","id":"150436-pyannote"},"job_id":"2qQl27CG1rVHQor8","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"end\": 527.447, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 527.447, \"end\": 527.467, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:29,145\n委員發言主席好有請我們的薛部長請薛部長林委好薛部長早早在上次我們在環境部業務報告的時候我就非常關心就是我們的碳費審議的那個進度當時我提到我們的碳\n\n2\n00:00:29,841 --> 00:00:32,282\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n3\n00:01:03,409 --> 00:01:26,417\n首先我們先看一下考古題,這上次我問過了,就是上次質詢的時候提出來說環境部在碳費徵收上是不是還是會增加2.5萬噸的扣除?當時部長的回答是會交給委員會去決定,所以想問部長請問一下目前這題有討論嗎?討論進度為何?委員會內部是不是有共識?\n\n4\n00:01:27,585 --> 00:01:45,361\n給林委員報告事實上目前還沒有進入到實質的討論但是我們環境部內部的討論是覺得這2.5萬噸對於假如他沒有去享受包括碳洩漏的那個係數的那一部分他們是可以擁有這2.5萬噸\n\n5\n00:01:48,123 --> 00:01:49,684\n環境部不能堅持取消2.5萬噸的扣除額。\n\n6\n00:02:09,239 --> 00:02:25,352\n因為真正落實減碳的目的因為為什麼因為台灣在我們的歐盟美國法規越來越嚴格的時候實在沒有等待機會所以我們本來就要加快腳步去補那個不足的地方這個你要去做考量\n\n7\n00:02:25,987 --> 00:02:26,167\n請問目前討論進度為何?\n\n8\n00:02:40,994 --> 00:02:58,773\n給委員報告事實上這個我們在給委員的碳費審議委員會的委員的資料裡面大概都有這個部分會針對它碳洩漏的程度、風險性給予不同比例的一個折扣事實上這個我們草案是有\n\n9\n00:03:01,075 --> 00:03:26,916\n委員會好像也還沒討論到那個部分我們可能在下一次的這個會議裡面他們應該會為什麼因為新聞講說你的折扣非常非常的大這是環境部講所以當然我們會有些擔憂那事實上就沒辦法去改變甚至也沒辦法打標啦這個還是要去提醒我們的環境部不過大概更重要的是請下一頁\n\n10\n00:03:29,264 --> 00:03:54,671\n那上碳費就部長從新聞報導我們看碳費訂定工商界環境部跟環保團體對碳費的期待相差落差非常的大字面上看起來是一百三百五百字面上看起來不差很多可是對企業可能是幾百億的差異對國家基金的收入可能是上百億所以部長依照這個我們的碳費率審議會設置要點第8條所有\n\n11\n00:03:58,020 --> 00:04:08,914\n決議要出席委員過半數的同意才能夠決議出席委員正反意見同訴時由主席裁定之所以目前我們的碳費這個審議委員會的機制是過半數決定\n\n12\n00:04:12,951 --> 00:04:14,693\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n13\n00:04:29,851 --> 00:04:50,911\n給委員報告,事實上這個大家以寒假的方式事實上並不適當所以昨天委員會的結議我事實上感到很欣慰他們就說請環境部提供更科學為基礎更客觀的條件讓委員可以去討論討論完以後他們也可能是決定不同的做法\n\n14\n00:04:51,931 --> 00:05:16,402\n由環境部來做整理的決議所以當然很多包括媒體記者可能也會說環境部本來是說3月底要公布碳會的費率可是林委員應該很了解這個情況我們要投票由委員去投票決定一個費率這種事情5分鐘就可以決定了但是我非常欣慰就是說我們委員非常理性非常\n\n15\n00:05:17,542 --> 00:05:45,402\n有智慧他們覺得應該提出來討論用科學為基礎所以我想我們就尊重委員會那他們的決議如果在月底之前沒罵結那是不是在520之前可以決定這個因為是委員會的他們的權責我想我也不越權那我想站在環境部的立場就是趕快把執法去做預告的工作那把周遭該做的在法制面環境部該做的我們把它做完\n\n16\n00:05:46,349 --> 00:06:02,572\n至於這個什麼時候決定會議我想就請委員會他們多辛勞一下。可是因為影響非常的大,為什麼?因為當這沒有決定,因為我們電費要上漲的時候,如果碳費要徵收的話,物價就會引起很大的波動,這是對民眾實質有感的。\n\n17\n00:06:03,223 --> 00:06:29,899\n因為電費要漲每個家庭跟工商團體企業都會因為這個電費而產生增加成本3%到10%可碳費徵收呢那目前不確定100到500之間可是影響層面民生物質都會受到影響而且可是環境部一直沒有對外說明說那就會造成疑似有業者因為徵收碳費對於我們的消費者\n\n18\n00:06:30,499 --> 00:06:38,868\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n19\n00:06:52,739 --> 00:06:52,839\n主席\n\n20\n00:07:11,089 --> 00:07:15,831\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n21\n00:07:39,542 --> 00:08:05,551\n他從媒體又看到一些建商在對這些那是不是就造成一些困擾所以本來年輕人就已經是買不起房子在這一波這個講不清楚然後持續漫天喊價繼續惡化的話房市是不是會飆漲那年輕人更買不起房所以是不是應該要去做說明所以想問部長目前是不是有掌握一式碳費轟台房價物價狀況\n\n22\n00:08:06,531 --> 00:08:34,394\n事實上目前我們所了解都是在寒假階段那因為環境部對於包括這個營造商或者這個建設公司說房地產會漲15%到35%我們也希望搞去這個駁斥所以是不是可以第一個確認我國收取的那個碳費跟國際接軌不要讓企業重複課稅不要在台灣收的碳費到國外的時候又再被收\n\n23\n00:08:35,682 --> 00:08:47,467\n二、防堵因徵收這惡意哄抬價格,應該要有聯合稽查小組,預防預期新例,不要讓碳費徵收影響各別行業,所以我覺得環境部要對外說明清楚。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t29145\t委員發言主席好有請我們的薛部長請薛部長林委好薛部長早早在上次我們在環境部業務報告的時候我就非常關心就是我們的碳費審議的那個進度當時我提到我們的碳\n29841\t32282\t含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n63409\t86417\t首先我們先看一下考古題,這上次我問過了,就是上次質詢的時候提出來說環境部在碳費徵收上是不是還是會增加2.5萬噸的扣除?當時部長的回答是會交給委員會去決定,所以想問部長請問一下目前這題有討論嗎?討論進度為何?委員會內部是不是有共識?\n87585\t105361\t給林委員報告事實上目前還沒有進入到實質的討論但是我們環境部內部的討論是覺得這2.5萬噸對於假如他沒有去享受包括碳洩漏的那個係數的那一部分他們是可以擁有這2.5萬噸\n108123\t109684\t環境部不能堅持取消2.5萬噸的扣除額。\n129239\t145352\t因為真正落實減碳的目的因為為什麼因為台灣在我們的歐盟美國法規越來越嚴格的時候實在沒有等待機會所以我們本來就要加快腳步去補那個不足的地方這個你要去做考量\n145987\t146167\t請問目前討論進度為何?\n160994\t178773\t給委員報告事實上這個我們在給委員的碳費審議委員會的委員的資料裡面大概都有這個部分會針對它碳洩漏的程度、風險性給予不同比例的一個折扣事實上這個我們草案是有\n181075\t206916\t委員會好像也還沒討論到那個部分我們可能在下一次的這個會議裡面他們應該會為什麼因為新聞講說你的折扣非常非常的大這是環境部講所以當然我們會有些擔憂那事實上就沒辦法去改變甚至也沒辦法打標啦這個還是要去提醒我們的環境部不過大概更重要的是請下一頁\n209264\t234671\t那上碳費就部長從新聞報導我們看碳費訂定工商界環境部跟環保團體對碳費的期待相差落差非常的大字面上看起來是一百三百五百字面上看起來不差很多可是對企業可能是幾百億的差異對國家基金的收入可能是上百億所以部長依照這個我們的碳費率審議會設置要點第8條所有\n238020\t248914\t決議要出席委員過半數的同意才能夠決議出席委員正反意見同訴時由主席裁定之所以目前我們的碳費這個審議委員會的機制是過半數決定\n252951\t254693\t含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n269851\t290911\t給委員報告,事實上這個大家以寒假的方式事實上並不適當所以昨天委員會的結議我事實上感到很欣慰他們就說請環境部提供更科學為基礎更客觀的條件讓委員可以去討論討論完以後他們也可能是決定不同的做法\n291931\t316402\t由環境部來做整理的決議所以當然很多包括媒體記者可能也會說環境部本來是說3月底要公布碳會的費率可是林委員應該很了解這個情況我們要投票由委員去投票決定一個費率這種事情5分鐘就可以決定了但是我非常欣慰就是說我們委員非常理性非常\n317542\t345402\t有智慧他們覺得應該提出來討論用科學為基礎所以我想我們就尊重委員會那他們的決議如果在月底之前沒罵結那是不是在520之前可以決定這個因為是委員會的他們的權責我想我也不越權那我想站在環境部的立場就是趕快把執法去做預告的工作那把周遭該做的在法制面環境部該做的我們把它做完\n346349\t362572\t至於這個什麼時候決定會議我想就請委員會他們多辛勞一下。可是因為影響非常的大,為什麼?因為當這沒有決定,因為我們電費要上漲的時候,如果碳費要徵收的話,物價就會引起很大的波動,這是對民眾實質有感的。\n363223\t389899\t因為電費要漲每個家庭跟工商團體企業都會因為這個電費而產生增加成本3%到10%可碳費徵收呢那目前不確定100到500之間可是影響層面民生物質都會受到影響而且可是環境部一直沒有對外說明說那就會造成疑似有業者因為徵收碳費對於我們的消費者\n390499\t398868\t二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n412739\t412839\t主席\n431089\t435831\t含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n459542\t485551\t他從媒體又看到一些建商在對這些那是不是就造成一些困擾所以本來年輕人就已經是買不起房子在這一波這個講不清楚然後持續漫天喊價繼續惡化的話房市是不是會飆漲那年輕人更買不起房所以是不是應該要去做說明所以想問部長目前是不是有掌握一式碳費轟台房價物價狀況\n486531\t514394\t事實上目前我們所了解都是在寒假階段那因為環境部對於包括這個營造商或者這個建設公司說房地產會漲15%到35%我們也希望搞去這個駁斥所以是不是可以第一個確認我國收取的那個碳費跟國際接軌不要讓企業重複課稅不要在台灣收的碳費到國外的時候又再被收\n515682\t527467\t二、防堵因徵收這惡意哄抬價格,應該要有聯合稽查小組,預防預期新例,不要讓碳費徵收影響各別行業,所以我覺得環境部要對外說明清楚。\n","txt":"委員發言主席好有請我們的薛部長請薛部長林委好薛部長早早在上次我們在環境部業務報告的時候我就非常關心就是我們的碳費審議的那個進度當時我提到我們的碳\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n首先我們先看一下考古題,這上次我問過了,就是上次質詢的時候提出來說環境部在碳費徵收上是不是還是會增加2.5萬噸的扣除?當時部長的回答是會交給委員會去決定,所以想問部長請問一下目前這題有討論嗎?討論進度為何?委員會內部是不是有共識?\n給林委員報告事實上目前還沒有進入到實質的討論但是我們環境部內部的討論是覺得這2.5萬噸對於假如他沒有去享受包括碳洩漏的那個係數的那一部分他們是可以擁有這2.5萬噸\n環境部不能堅持取消2.5萬噸的扣除額。\n因為真正落實減碳的目的因為為什麼因為台灣在我們的歐盟美國法規越來越嚴格的時候實在沒有等待機會所以我們本來就要加快腳步去補那個不足的地方這個你要去做考量\n請問目前討論進度為何?\n給委員報告事實上這個我們在給委員的碳費審議委員會的委員的資料裡面大概都有這個部分會針對它碳洩漏的程度、風險性給予不同比例的一個折扣事實上這個我們草案是有\n委員會好像也還沒討論到那個部分我們可能在下一次的這個會議裡面他們應該會為什麼因為新聞講說你的折扣非常非常的大這是環境部講所以當然我們會有些擔憂那事實上就沒辦法去改變甚至也沒辦法打標啦這個還是要去提醒我們的環境部不過大概更重要的是請下一頁\n那上碳費就部長從新聞報導我們看碳費訂定工商界環境部跟環保團體對碳費的期待相差落差非常的大字面上看起來是一百三百五百字面上看起來不差很多可是對企業可能是幾百億的差異對國家基金的收入可能是上百億所以部長依照這個我們的碳費率審議會設置要點第8條所有\n決議要出席委員過半數的同意才能夠決議出席委員正反意見同訴時由主席裁定之所以目前我們的碳費這個審議委員會的機制是過半數決定\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n給委員報告,事實上這個大家以寒假的方式事實上並不適當所以昨天委員會的結議我事實上感到很欣慰他們就說請環境部提供更科學為基礎更客觀的條件讓委員可以去討論討論完以後他們也可能是決定不同的做法\n由環境部來做整理的決議所以當然很多包括媒體記者可能也會說環境部本來是說3月底要公布碳會的費率可是林委員應該很了解這個情況我們要投票由委員去投票決定一個費率這種事情5分鐘就可以決定了但是我非常欣慰就是說我們委員非常理性非常\n有智慧他們覺得應該提出來討論用科學為基礎所以我想我們就尊重委員會那他們的決議如果在月底之前沒罵結那是不是在520之前可以決定這個因為是委員會的他們的權責我想我也不越權那我想站在環境部的立場就是趕快把執法去做預告的工作那把周遭該做的在法制面環境部該做的我們把它做完\n至於這個什麼時候決定會議我想就請委員會他們多辛勞一下。可是因為影響非常的大,為什麼?因為當這沒有決定,因為我們電費要上漲的時候,如果碳費要徵收的話,物價就會引起很大的波動,這是對民眾實質有感的。\n因為電費要漲每個家庭跟工商團體企業都會因為這個電費而產生增加成本3%到10%可碳費徵收呢那目前不確定100到500之間可是影響層面民生物質都會受到影響而且可是環境部一直沒有對外說明說那就會造成疑似有業者因為徵收碳費對於我們的消費者\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n主席\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n他從媒體又看到一些建商在對這些那是不是就造成一些困擾所以本來年輕人就已經是買不起房子在這一波這個講不清楚然後持續漫天喊價繼續惡化的話房市是不是會飆漲那年輕人更買不起房所以是不是應該要去做說明所以想問部長目前是不是有掌握一式碳費轟台房價物價狀況\n事實上目前我們所了解都是在寒假階段那因為環境部對於包括這個營造商或者這個建設公司說房地產會漲15%到35%我們也希望搞去這個駁斥所以是不是可以第一個確認我國收取的那個碳費跟國際接軌不要讓企業重複課稅不要在台灣收的碳費到國外的時候又再被收\n二、防堵因徵收這惡意哄抬價格,應該要有聯合稽查小組,預防預期新例,不要讓碳費徵收影響各別行業,所以我覺得環境部要對外說明清楚。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:29.145\n委員發言主席好有請我們的薛部長請薛部長林委好薛部長早早在上次我們在環境部業務報告的時候我就非常關心就是我們的碳費審議的那個進度當時我提到我們的碳\n\n00:29.841 --> 00:32.282\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n01:03.409 --> 01:26.417\n首先我們先看一下考古題,這上次我問過了,就是上次質詢的時候提出來說環境部在碳費徵收上是不是還是會增加2.5萬噸的扣除?當時部長的回答是會交給委員會去決定,所以想問部長請問一下目前這題有討論嗎?討論進度為何?委員會內部是不是有共識?\n\n01:27.585 --> 01:45.361\n給林委員報告事實上目前還沒有進入到實質的討論但是我們環境部內部的討論是覺得這2.5萬噸對於假如他沒有去享受包括碳洩漏的那個係數的那一部分他們是可以擁有這2.5萬噸\n\n01:48.123 --> 01:49.684\n環境部不能堅持取消2.5萬噸的扣除額。\n\n02:09.239 --> 02:25.352\n因為真正落實減碳的目的因為為什麼因為台灣在我們的歐盟美國法規越來越嚴格的時候實在沒有等待機會所以我們本來就要加快腳步去補那個不足的地方這個你要去做考量\n\n02:25.987 --> 02:26.167\n請問目前討論進度為何?\n\n02:40.994 --> 02:58.773\n給委員報告事實上這個我們在給委員的碳費審議委員會的委員的資料裡面大概都有這個部分會針對它碳洩漏的程度、風險性給予不同比例的一個折扣事實上這個我們草案是有\n\n03:01.075 --> 03:26.916\n委員會好像也還沒討論到那個部分我們可能在下一次的這個會議裡面他們應該會為什麼因為新聞講說你的折扣非常非常的大這是環境部講所以當然我們會有些擔憂那事實上就沒辦法去改變甚至也沒辦法打標啦這個還是要去提醒我們的環境部不過大概更重要的是請下一頁\n\n03:29.264 --> 03:54.671\n那上碳費就部長從新聞報導我們看碳費訂定工商界環境部跟環保團體對碳費的期待相差落差非常的大字面上看起來是一百三百五百字面上看起來不差很多可是對企業可能是幾百億的差異對國家基金的收入可能是上百億所以部長依照這個我們的碳費率審議會設置要點第8條所有\n\n03:58.020 --> 04:08.914\n決議要出席委員過半數的同意才能夠決議出席委員正反意見同訴時由主席裁定之所以目前我們的碳費這個審議委員會的機制是過半數決定\n\n04:12.951 --> 04:14.693\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n04:29.851 --> 04:50.911\n給委員報告,事實上這個大家以寒假的方式事實上並不適當所以昨天委員會的結議我事實上感到很欣慰他們就說請環境部提供更科學為基礎更客觀的條件讓委員可以去討論討論完以後他們也可能是決定不同的做法\n\n04:51.931 --> 05:16.402\n由環境部來做整理的決議所以當然很多包括媒體記者可能也會說環境部本來是說3月底要公布碳會的費率可是林委員應該很了解這個情況我們要投票由委員去投票決定一個費率這種事情5分鐘就可以決定了但是我非常欣慰就是說我們委員非常理性非常\n\n05:17.542 --> 05:45.402\n有智慧他們覺得應該提出來討論用科學為基礎所以我想我們就尊重委員會那他們的決議如果在月底之前沒罵結那是不是在520之前可以決定這個因為是委員會的他們的權責我想我也不越權那我想站在環境部的立場就是趕快把執法去做預告的工作那把周遭該做的在法制面環境部該做的我們把它做完\n\n05:46.349 --> 06:02.572\n至於這個什麼時候決定會議我想就請委員會他們多辛勞一下。可是因為影響非常的大,為什麼?因為當這沒有決定,因為我們電費要上漲的時候,如果碳費要徵收的話,物價就會引起很大的波動,這是對民眾實質有感的。\n\n06:03.223 --> 06:29.899\n因為電費要漲每個家庭跟工商團體企業都會因為這個電費而產生增加成本3%到10%可碳費徵收呢那目前不確定100到500之間可是影響層面民生物質都會受到影響而且可是環境部一直沒有對外說明說那就會造成疑似有業者因為徵收碳費對於我們的消費者\n\n06:30.499 --> 06:38.868\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n06:52.739 --> 06:52.839\n主席\n\n07:11.089 --> 07:15.831\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n07:39.542 --> 08:05.551\n他從媒體又看到一些建商在對這些那是不是就造成一些困擾所以本來年輕人就已經是買不起房子在這一波這個講不清楚然後持續漫天喊價繼續惡化的話房市是不是會飆漲那年輕人更買不起房所以是不是應該要去做說明所以想問部長目前是不是有掌握一式碳費轟台房價物價狀況\n\n08:06.531 --> 08:34.394\n事實上目前我們所了解都是在寒假階段那因為環境部對於包括這個營造商或者這個建設公司說房地產會漲15%到35%我們也希望搞去這個駁斥所以是不是可以第一個確認我國收取的那個碳費跟國際接軌不要讓企業重複課稅不要在台灣收的碳費到國外的時候又再被收\n\n08:35.682 --> 08:47.467\n二、防堵因徵收這惡意哄抬價格,應該要有聯合稽查小組,預防預期新例,不要讓碳費徵收影響各別行業,所以我覺得環境部要對外說明清楚。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":29.145,"text":"委員發言主席好有請我們的薛部長請薛部長林委好薛部長早早在上次我們在環境部業務報告的時候我就非常關心就是我們的碳費審議的那個進度當時我提到我們的碳"},{"start":29.841,"end":32.282,"text":"含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":63.409,"end":86.417,"text":"首先我們先看一下考古題,這上次我問過了,就是上次質詢的時候提出來說環境部在碳費徵收上是不是還是會增加2.5萬噸的扣除?當時部長的回答是會交給委員會去決定,所以想問部長請問一下目前這題有討論嗎?討論進度為何?委員會內部是不是有共識?"},{"start":87.585,"end":105.361,"text":"給林委員報告事實上目前還沒有進入到實質的討論但是我們環境部內部的討論是覺得這2.5萬噸對於假如他沒有去享受包括碳洩漏的那個係數的那一部分他們是可以擁有這2.5萬噸"},{"start":108.123,"end":109.684,"text":"環境部不能堅持取消2.5萬噸的扣除額。"},{"start":129.239,"end":145.352,"text":"因為真正落實減碳的目的因為為什麼因為台灣在我們的歐盟美國法規越來越嚴格的時候實在沒有等待機會所以我們本來就要加快腳步去補那個不足的地方這個你要去做考量"},{"start":145.987,"end":146.167,"text":"請問目前討論進度為何?"},{"start":160.994,"end":178.773,"text":"給委員報告事實上這個我們在給委員的碳費審議委員會的委員的資料裡面大概都有這個部分會針對它碳洩漏的程度、風險性給予不同比例的一個折扣事實上這個我們草案是有"},{"start":181.075,"end":206.916,"text":"委員會好像也還沒討論到那個部分我們可能在下一次的這個會議裡面他們應該會為什麼因為新聞講說你的折扣非常非常的大這是環境部講所以當然我們會有些擔憂那事實上就沒辦法去改變甚至也沒辦法打標啦這個還是要去提醒我們的環境部不過大概更重要的是請下一頁"},{"start":209.264,"end":234.671,"text":"那上碳費就部長從新聞報導我們看碳費訂定工商界環境部跟環保團體對碳費的期待相差落差非常的大字面上看起來是一百三百五百字面上看起來不差很多可是對企業可能是幾百億的差異對國家基金的收入可能是上百億所以部長依照這個我們的碳費率審議會設置要點第8條所有"},{"start":238.02,"end":248.914,"text":"決議要出席委員過半數的同意才能夠決議出席委員正反意見同訴時由主席裁定之所以目前我們的碳費這個審議委員會的機制是過半數決定"},{"start":252.951,"end":254.693,"text":"含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":269.851,"end":290.911,"text":"給委員報告,事實上這個大家以寒假的方式事實上並不適當所以昨天委員會的結議我事實上感到很欣慰他們就說請環境部提供更科學為基礎更客觀的條件讓委員可以去討論討論完以後他們也可能是決定不同的做法"},{"start":291.931,"end":316.402,"text":"由環境部來做整理的決議所以當然很多包括媒體記者可能也會說環境部本來是說3月底要公布碳會的費率可是林委員應該很了解這個情況我們要投票由委員去投票決定一個費率這種事情5分鐘就可以決定了但是我非常欣慰就是說我們委員非常理性非常"},{"start":317.542,"end":345.402,"text":"有智慧他們覺得應該提出來討論用科學為基礎所以我想我們就尊重委員會那他們的決議如果在月底之前沒罵結那是不是在520之前可以決定這個因為是委員會的他們的權責我想我也不越權那我想站在環境部的立場就是趕快把執法去做預告的工作那把周遭該做的在法制面環境部該做的我們把它做完"},{"start":346.349,"end":362.572,"text":"至於這個什麼時候決定會議我想就請委員會他們多辛勞一下。可是因為影響非常的大,為什麼?因為當這沒有決定,因為我們電費要上漲的時候,如果碳費要徵收的話,物價就會引起很大的波動,這是對民眾實質有感的。"},{"start":363.223,"end":389.899,"text":"因為電費要漲每個家庭跟工商團體企業都會因為這個電費而產生增加成本3%到10%可碳費徵收呢那目前不確定100到500之間可是影響層面民生物質都會受到影響而且可是環境部一直沒有對外說明說那就會造成疑似有業者因為徵收碳費對於我們的消費者"},{"start":390.499,"end":398.868,"text":"二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":412.739,"end":412.839,"text":"主席"},{"start":431.089,"end":435.831,"text":"含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":459.542,"end":485.551,"text":"他從媒體又看到一些建商在對這些那是不是就造成一些困擾所以本來年輕人就已經是買不起房子在這一波這個講不清楚然後持續漫天喊價繼續惡化的話房市是不是會飆漲那年輕人更買不起房所以是不是應該要去做說明所以想問部長目前是不是有掌握一式碳費轟台房價物價狀況"},{"start":486.531,"end":514.394,"text":"事實上目前我們所了解都是在寒假階段那因為環境部對於包括這個營造商或者這個建設公司說房地產會漲15%到35%我們也希望搞去這個駁斥所以是不是可以第一個確認我國收取的那個碳費跟國際接軌不要讓企業重複課稅不要在台灣收的碳費到國外的時候又再被收"},{"start":515.682,"end":527.467,"text":"二、防堵因徵收這惡意哄抬價格,應該要有聯合稽查小組,預防預期新例,不要讓碳費徵收影響各別行業,所以我覺得環境部要對外說明清楚。"}]}}}}