{"id":150439,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150439","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d518092787e13ae61752100ef94a0b7c33f8ba9b0039caa7a6857e8946a4dbda255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:28:36 - 09:42:08","影片長度":"00:13:32","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算(公務預算)解凍案8案。(如未接獲議事處來函，則不予處理或審查)【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-5"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":812,"end_time":"2024-03-27T09:42:08+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T09:28:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":163,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時28分）主席謝謝，麻煩請史哲部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["史部長哲：委員早。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，今天是今年第一次文化部的業務報告，本席有幾個比較關鍵性以及立場性的問題要跟你請教，首先，「周處除三害」這部國片，你有看過嗎？"],["史部長哲：有，我有看過。"],["洪委員孟楷：有看過嘛，而且也獲得文化部的長片補助，以及很多不管是影視司相關的補助，本席算了一下，「周處除三害」這部電影，至少我們文化部有超過1,500萬以上的補助。"],["史部長哲：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，最近有傳出，其實也不是最近，10月的時候就爆發劇本抄襲的事件，文化部有沒有去瞭解？"],["史部長哲：我們影視局有進行過瞭解，但是細節……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，經瞭解有沒有抄襲？不能隨便講欸，史哲部長，有瞭解就有瞭解，沒瞭解就沒瞭解，不能隨便講……"],["史部長哲：我們當然是有瞭解……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有抄襲？"],["史部長哲：但是抄不抄襲，恐怕不是我們能夠認定的。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，你有瞭解，當然你要去認定到底有沒有抄襲。"],["史部長哲：沒有，抄襲是一個法律名詞，這必須要由司法來認定。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，抄襲是法律名詞，但是政府部門是補助單位嘛，補助單位有沒有瞭解你補助的這個電影公司，到底現在打的這個官司，初步瞭解它到底有沒有往這個方向走？"],["史部長哲：我想我們尊重它已經進入司法程序，但是我們在補助的當下確實是沒有這個問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：確實是沒有這個問題嘛？不是，本席今天是一個立場的說明，好不好？部長不要那麼緊張，但是本席為什麼會提出來，因為這件事情去年10月就爆發了，最近又再吵得比較沸沸揚揚是因為「周處除三害」在中國大陸賣得很好，所以又再引發爭吵，但是當然進入司法之後，如果他們真的有民事糾紛，可是畢竟我們文化部有補助至少超過1,500萬，你補助1,500萬，你總是要瞭解你補助的這個公司，它到底是不是拿原創的劇本來，不然的話，難道文化部鼓勵這樣的犯罪行為嗎？"],["史部長哲：文化部當然不可能……"],["洪委員孟楷：當然不鼓勵嘛，對不對？"],["史部長哲：但它是不是有犯罪行為，需要由法院來認定。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以你第一是初步認定它沒有抄襲，是不是？"],["史部長哲：我沒有這樣講，我只是說我們沒辦法代替法院來判斷這個事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，如果你要這樣講的話，如果未來假設真的有抄襲的話，這1,500萬要不要追回來？"],["史部長哲：依照法規是要。"],["洪委員孟楷：依照法規是要，好。本席還是要再次強調，我們鼓勵每一部國片，我們當然也希望每一部國片都能夠做好，但是因為畢竟現在有這樣的事件爆發，所以我才會提出來，應該由我們文化的總主管機關也要去瞭解，不是只是等法院，不然的話，法院什麼時候判決出來，我們不知道，可是你在補助的當下，你當然應該要去瞭解你們補助的每一個是不是都是原創劇本，是不是都沒有違法的行為嘛。"],["史部長哲：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：再來第二個部分，最近鳥山明作者離開人世，大家都非常地難過，他創作的七龍珠IP，我相信這是全世界大家共同的文化，也有人看中他留下來的作品，開始有國家要去做七龍珠的主題遊樂場。韓國從現在到2027年也要推動一個新計畫叫做網漫（網路漫畫），他們要設置平臺，希望到2027年的時候，網漫的規模能夠提升達到四兆韓元，因為他們認為這是戲劇、流行音樂以外，最有潛力的第三股勢力。好萊塢也有漫威電影，一個IP漫畫之後可以變成是電影、影視作品，然後創造非常多的商機。請教，這部分我們文化部有沒有看到，有沒有比較具體的措施？你今天在報告的第11頁有講到國家漫畫博物館，這點本席肯定，除了國家漫畫博物館以外，有沒有比較具體的措施？"],["史部長哲：是，謝謝委員的……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們要投入多少錢，在多少的時間內有什麼樣比較具體的計畫？"],["史部長哲：是，謝謝。漫畫確實是一個非常有利基的IP，尤其它是圖文，而且它有分鏡的基礎，所以我們在去年除了國家漫畫博物館確定落腳臺中之外，我們也在今年推出一個最新的政策，就是開始實施有關於長篇的漫畫輔導金。因為一個漫畫要成為一個強而有力的IP，它事實上是需要長篇連載，我們過去的漫畫輔導金是針對短篇，所以今年開始針對長篇，我想這是一個非常重要的……"],["洪委員孟楷：多少錢？"],["史部長哲：我們大幅度提高1案的補助金額已經到800萬，事實上這會是一個蠻強……"],["洪委員孟楷：總經費多少錢？"],["史部長哲：總經費目前大概是以3,000萬為基礎。"],["洪委員孟楷：3,000萬，所以你說最高補助800萬的話，平均就差不多補助4、5部作品。"],["史部長哲：這是初期，我們會看徵案的狀況來……"],["洪委員孟楷：另外，本席強調的是，韓國是希望打造一個平臺，就是像Netflix的概念，等於Netflix是影劇的平臺，它希望將網漫打造成像Netflix的一個漫畫平臺，可以將所有好的漫畫放在上面，然後讓大家可以繳納月租費後上網去觀看，讓這些漫畫可以無遠弗屆地讓全世界都看到。我不想講說人家已經上太空了，我們還在殺豬公，但是確實你剛剛講我們今年要開始補助長篇漫畫，總經費3,000萬。","有網友在網路社團發文講說為什麼臺灣養不出鳥山明等級的漫畫家？我先講我的立場，我也不喜歡每一次有什麼事情的時候，我們就講說為什麼臺灣沒有，因為其中涉及的方方面面很多，可是當裡面有提到是說政府未提供金援以及市場規模不大，這部分是我們可以去深思的，就是說我們怎麼樣能夠把餅做大，以及我們怎麼樣能夠培養更好的人才投入這一塊，讓大家覺得投入這一塊產業未來是有前景的，部長，你同意嗎？"],["史部長哲：完全同意，這部分確實我們一直在加強當中，當然臺灣整個漫畫市場受到的影響有多重的因素啦。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然，但是重點就是說我們能夠怎麼樣做，因為韓國已經在做這個事情，我也拜託部長今天回去請同仁好好地針對韓國現在的作法做一個研究，在10年前他們有K-pop、他們有戲劇，當他們現在已經要再發展第三波的漫畫的時候，我們除了我們自己的臺劇、華劇以外，我們怎麼樣能夠更加強這一個部分？"],["史部長哲：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長是不是針對這個部分有一個比較具體的措施，能夠再提供給我們教育及文化委員會的委員來做參考？"],["史部長哲：好，是的，我會儘快給委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：多久的時間？"],["史部長哲：一個月的時間一定會提供。"],["洪委員孟楷：一個月的時間？"],["史部長哲：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，再來，既然剛剛有提到漫畫的重點在於原創，原創的精神很重要，因為它就是一個IP的創造，那現在也有討論原創，討論得沸沸揚揚，就是iWIN的事件，很多人在講二次元創作是不是違反兒少性剝削條例，各國都覺得說有差異，當然我們一定是保護兒童、保護青少年，這個絕對沒有問題，可是現在當日本漫畫家跟參議員也聲援臺灣創作自由的時候，我請教數發部、NCC在討論iWIN這個部分時有沒有找文化部來開會？"],["史部長哲：最近一次是衛福部的諮商會議。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有？"],["史部長哲：有找文化部。"],["洪委員孟楷：那文化部的立場是什麼？"],["史部長哲：跟委員的立場基本上是相近的。"],["洪委員孟楷：你不要把我拖下水，我是問你的立場，你的立場啦！文化部的立場是什麼？因為這個很重要，到底是支持創作、原創的精神？還是像現在一樣，包山包海、什麼都先預防性下架？"],["史部長哲：我們沒有包山包海、預防性下架啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，iWIN有包山包海、預防性下架。"],["史部長哲：是，我想是這樣，針對兒少的部分，這個確實是一個課題，我們要承認這件事情，但是創作者的自由也必須要被保障，基本上可以做的防範措施，我個人覺得其實應該要來納入實施，比如說分級，比如說警語，這個基礎的應該要做。至於說有沒有可能有一個非常明確的標準、界限，目前大家還在討論當中，基本上我們不排斥討論，不排斥討論應該是一個大家比較正向面對這個課題的心態啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你這樣說了1分鐘，你有說就好像沒說一樣。今天3月27日有要再召開多方利害關係人會議，請教部長，因為上一次有開會的創作者強調說沒有共識，只有衛福部自行下結論啦！那今天3月27日iWIN這邊又要開會，文化部有沒有受邀派代表出席？"],["史部長哲：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是能夠請文化部代表在出席的時候也表達今天部長講的這個話，我自己身為兩個孩子的父親，我想大家在座有很多人也都有小孩，不管是男生、女生，其實對兒少的保護大家都認為重要，這個是不分你我、不分彼此、不分黨派，但是另外一個部分就是創作者也很重要，並不是說一缸子打翻一船人，所以我很強調什麼？我很強調實體色情該抓就抓，甚至要嚴懲重罰，但是創作的部分要保留創作的精神，不是畫的臉有一點像小朋友，那就認定他就是兒少，就是犯法、侵權，這一點部長可以同意嗎？"],["史部長哲：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：文化部的代表在今天下午的會議是不是也表達這樣的立場？"],["史部長哲：是，會的，我們剛剛的發言，包括我說我支持警語、我支持分級，其實某種程度上就代表我對創作希望給予它最大的空間。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，因為文化部真的還是要站在創作者這一個部分。"],["史部長哲：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：最後，在這個禮拜六有獨立書店訪視員的爭議，當然，文化部在第一時間快刀斬亂麻，可是很多人就講原來有書店訪視員這樣的一個工作，好像是夢幻工作，很多人在問說怎麼樣應徵，有沒有？然後也有人在講實體書店跟線上書店，我個人兩個都有，我喜歡逛書店，我也會在大的網路書店上面來買書，在每個月7號、每個月5號我都會買。那一樣，對這一個事件外界認為文化部是請鬼抓藥單，是不是請錯了訪視員？未來要怎麼樣避免？"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝委員，委員也做過文化局長，應該比我清楚……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，跟您同期。"],["史部長哲：對，我們政府的補助在補助之後一定會有一個追蹤管考，希望能夠瞭解它拿了國家納稅人的錢之後執行的狀況，以實體書店補助來講的話，我們委託的就是獨立書店的協會，由獨立書店協會這個公法人請它認同的相關學者專家來進行。"],["洪委員孟楷：那對學者專家有沒有再去看他們的言行？"],["史部長哲：是，他們所推薦的學者專家裡面就是有包括你剛剛講的這一位蔡先生，所以基本上我們是始料未及，但是由公法人或者是公協會所推薦的學者專家來訪視接受補助的書店，這本來就是一個比較社會參與、公民參與的方式，只是說這個獨立的個案是我們始料未及的，所以絕對不是請鬼抓藥單。"],["洪委員孟楷：那未來怎麼樣避免呢？"],["史部長哲：我也不希望產生寒蟬效應，就因為這樣子所以對於所有被推薦的訪視委員或相關的委員，我們都進行了審查或者是查核的工作，基本上……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們當然希望這些訪視員其實是跟我們站在一起，是可以鼓勵或是推廣獨立書店，加強獨立書店的運作。"],["史部長哲：是，當然。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們現在有多少訪視員？"],["史部長哲：每一年的狀況不大一樣，今年是20位，因為全國的獨立書店很多，你也不可能期待1個訪視員跑全部的書店，所以他基本上是分區責任辦理，也不是像委員說的這是什麼夢幻工作，事實上就是拿一筆出席費而已，訪視員基本上幫我們去follow它在拿到政府補助以後的執行狀況並寫成報告，同時他也……"],["洪委員孟楷：那對訪視員會不會每年確認他們的訪視成效、KPI？"],["史部長哲：當然，以發生這樣的事情來講，未來獨立書店協會如果還要再推薦訪視員，那恐怕我們就會更嚴謹地來考核了。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，因為文化的工作都是希望能夠正向推廣，而不是說貶低誰然後成就誰，我想我們看到這件事情就覺得奇怪，就是怎麼會好像鼓勵大家不去哪裡或是去哪裡。"],["史部長哲：很遺憾啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：其實都希望如果行有餘力，對實體書店我們要鼓勵，對獨立書店我們要鼓勵，對線上書店我覺得我們當然也不能放棄，好不好？"],["史部長哲：是，謝謝。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝部長。"],["史部長哲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。我們接下來請萬美玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","陳秀寳","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","羅廷瑋","葉元之","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林月琴","高金素梅","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅智強"],"page_start":241,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預\n算有關文化部主管預算（公務預算）解凍案8案","agenda_id":"1132201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150439","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150439","tool":"pyannote","id":"150439-pyannote"},"job_id":"o2gNYFOa2vYwvXbu","queued_at":"2024-06-01 19:33:42","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 19:35:34","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150439"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:35:35","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d518092787e13ae61752100ef94a0b7c3386695701d999525f682c3a9a74037a9e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:35:57","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-01 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00:01:00,871\n有,我有看過有看過嘛也獲得我們文化部的這個長片補助那以及很多我們不管是影視、私相關的這個補助本席算了一下這個主持人在這部電影至少文化部有這個超過1500萬以上的補助是好那最近有傳出其實也不是最近啦10月的時候就爆發出這個劇本抄襲的事件文化部有沒有去做了解我想我們影視局有進行過了解好,了解有沒有抄襲\n\n3\n00:01:03,462 --> 00:01:23,859\n不能隨便講欸史哲部長有了解就有了解沒了解就沒了解不能隨便講阿有沒有抄襲但是他不是抄襲恐怕不是我們能夠認定的不是阿你有了解當然你要去做認定到底有沒有抄襲阿沒有抄襲這個是一個法律名詞這是不需要抄襲是法律名詞但是你政府部門是補助單位嘛\n\n4\n00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:33,942\n那你補助單位你有沒有了解是說你補助的這個電影公司他到底現在打的這個官司那初步了解他到底有沒有往這個方向走\n\n5\n00:01:34,974 --> 00:02:00,301\n這個我想我們尊重他已經進入司法程序啦但是我們在補助當下確實是沒有這個問題確實是沒有這個問題嘛不是本席今天是一個立場的立場的說明好不好部長不要那麼緊張但是本席為什麼會提出來因為這件事情從去年10月就爆發了最近又在炒比較沸沸揚升因為中國廚師在中國大陸賣得很好所以說又再炒出來但是當然進入司法如果說他們真的有民事糾紛可是\n\n6\n00:02:01,381 --> 00:02:24,904\n畢竟我們文化部有補助至少超過1500萬嘛那你1500萬你總是要了解是說你補助了這個公司他到底是不是拿原創的劇本來不然的話難道文化部鼓勵這樣的一個犯罪行為嗎當然不鼓勵嘛對不對所以你第一初步認定是他沒有抄襲我沒有這樣講我只是說我們沒有辦法進行這個代替法院來判斷這個事情\n\n7\n00:02:26,425 --> 00:02:54,310\n那如果說你要這樣講的話那如果說未來假設真的有抄寫的話這1500萬要不要追回來依照法規是要依照法規是要好本席還是再一次強調我們鼓勵我們每一個國片我們當然也說我們每一個國片都做好但是因為畢竟現在有這樣的一個行為這樣的一個事件爆發所以我才會提出來是應該要有我們文化的總主管機關你也要去做了解不是說只是等法院那不然的話法院\n\n8\n00:02:54,810 --> 00:03:10,829\n他什麼時候出來我們不知道可是你在補助的當下你當然應該要去了解說你們補助的每一個是不是都是原創劇本是不是都沒有違法行為嘛是來再來第二個部分最近呢鳥山明作者他離開大家也都非常的難過\n\n9\n00:03:11,790 --> 00:03:28,765\n他創下的這個契龍珠的IP我相信這是全世界大家共同的一個文化那也有人看到是說他就留下來這個遊樂場開始有這個國家要去做他的一個遊樂場那韓國他們現在也在2027年也要推動一個新計畫叫做網賣\n\n10\n00:03:30,336 --> 00:03:36,801\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度\n\n11\n00:03:47,429 --> 00:04:13,341\n一個IP漫畫之後可以變成是電影影視然後創造非常多的一個商機那請教在這一個部分我們文化部有沒有看到有沒有什麼比較具體的措施除了你今天的報告有講到在第11頁國家漫畫博物館本市肯定國家漫畫博物館以外有沒有比較具體的措施是謝謝委員的這個我們要投入多少錢在多少的時間裡面有什麼樣比較具體的計畫是謝謝\n\n12\n00:04:14,221 --> 00:04:41,421\n我想漫畫確實是一個非常有利基的一個IP尤其它是圖文而且它分鏡的這個基礎所以因此我們在去年除了國家漫畫博物館確定落腳台中之外其實我們今年產生一個最新的政策就是有關於漫畫的長篇的輔導金的這個開始的實施因為事實上一個漫畫它要成為一個強而有力的IP它事實上是需要長篇連載那我們過去的漫畫輔導金事實上是針對短篇\n\n13\n00:04:41,881 --> 00:04:44,683\n總金費多少錢?總金費我們大概目前是以3000萬為基礎3000萬所以你說800萬最高的話你平均就差不多4部5部作品\n\n14\n00:05:01,236 --> 00:05:27,359\n這是初期啦我想我們會看真愛的狀況來去然後另外本席強調的是說對方就是說當韓國他是希望是說打造一個平台就是像Netflix的概念等於是Netflix是影劇的平台他希望是說網賣是打造一個Netflix的一個漫畫平台可以讓所有的這個好的漫畫放在那上面然後讓大家可能去買月租費然後去上網觀看讓這些漫畫可以無遠弗屆的讓全世界都看到\n\n15\n00:05:28,679 --> 00:05:44,206\n這個我不想講說人家已經上太空了我們還在殺豬公啦但是確實你剛講我們今年開始長篇漫畫3000萬有網友就講是說為什麼台灣養不出鳥山明等級的漫畫家其實本席我先講我的立場喔\n\n16\n00:05:44,346 --> 00:06:09,686\n我也不喜歡是說每一次就是有一個什麼事情的時候我們就講說為什麼台灣沒有這樣子因為其實這方方面面很多可是當裡面有提到是說政府為提供金源以及市場規模不大的時候這個是我們可以去深思的就是說我們怎麼樣能夠把餅做大然後以及我們怎麼樣能夠培養我們更好的人才能夠投入這一塊讓大家覺得說投入這一塊產業是有未來前景的部長你同意嗎\n\n17\n00:06:10,366 --> 00:06:30,231\n完全同意我想這個部分確實我們一直在加強當中所以當然台灣整個漫畫市場受到的影響有多重的因素啦當然但是就是說我們能夠怎麼樣做因為韓國也在做這個事情而且2027年我想我也拜託部長今天回去請同仁好好針對韓國現在的做法來去做一個研究當\n\n18\n00:06:31,591 --> 00:06:56,124\n十年前他們有這個K-pop他們有這個戲劇以及當現在他們已經要在第三波的這時候漫畫的時候我們除了我們自己的台劇華劇以外我們怎麼樣能夠更加強這一個部分是所以部長能夠針對這部分有一個比較具體的措施能夠再提供給我們教育文化委員會這邊委員來做參考好是的我會提供多久時間我想一個月的時間一定會提供一個月時間\n\n19\n00:06:57,608 --> 00:07:11,233\n部長再來既然剛有提到漫畫的重點在於是原創原創的精神很重要因為它就是一個IP的一個創造那現在也有討論原創沸沸揚揚就是iWIN的事件很多\n\n20\n00:07:12,338 --> 00:07:37,227\n人也在講是說二次元創作是不是違反兒少性剝削條例各國都覺得說有差異當然我們一定是保護兒童保護青少年絕對這個是沒有問題可是現在當日本漫畫家跟參議員也聲援台灣創作自由的時候我請教速發部NCC在討論這個Iwin的這個部分有沒有找我們文化部來開會\n\n21\n00:07:38,169 --> 00:08:01,489\n最近一次是衛福部的諮商會有找文化部那文化部的立場是什麼我想跟委員的立場基本上是相近的啦不要把我拖下水你的立場啦文化部的立場是什麼因為很重要到底是支持創作原創的這個精神還是像現在一樣包山包海什麼都先預防性下降\n\n22\n00:08:02,261 --> 00:08:04,602\n二、創作者的自由也必須要被保障。我想基本上\n\n23\n00:08:20,131 --> 00:08:20,972\n部長,你這樣說一分錢哪有說哪沒說\n\n24\n00:08:50,686 --> 00:09:13,504\n三二七今天有要再召開多方利害關係人會議那請教因為上一次有開會的創作者強調說沒有共識只有衛福部自行下結論那今天三二七又要在iWIN這邊又要開會文化部有沒有時候要代表出席有是不是能夠請文化部代表出席的時候也表達今天部長講的這個話我覺得\n\n25\n00:09:16,328 --> 00:09:40,828\n我自己身為兩個孩子的父親我想大家在座也都有小孩不管是男生女生其實我們兒少的保護大家都重要這個不分你我不分彼此不分黨派但另外一個部分創作者也很重要你不是說一槓子打翻一傳人所以我很強調什麼我很強調是說實體、色情該抓就抓甚至嚴懲重罰但是創作的部分你要保留創作的精神\n\n26\n00:09:41,568 --> 00:09:56,648\n不是畫的臉有點像這個小朋友那他就認定說他就是兒少男他就是犯法侵權這一點部長可以同意嗎是的我剛剛跟文化部的代表今天是不是下午的會議的時候也表達這樣的立場\n\n27\n00:09:57,088 --> 00:10:13,093\n是,會的,我想我們剛剛的發言包括說我說我支持集育我支持分級其實某種程度上就代表說我對創作希望給予它最大的空間因為文化部真的還是要站在創作者這一個部分最後在這一次有禮拜六的時候有這個獨立書店的這個訪視員的爭議當然文化部第一時間快刀斬亂馬可是\n\n28\n00:10:22,216 --> 00:10:48,821\n深圍很多人就講是說哇原來有書店訪試員這樣的一個工作好像是夢幻工作很多人在問說怎麼樣應徵有沒有然後呢也有在講是說實體書店跟這個線上書店我個人兩個都有我也喜歡逛書店我也會在這個大的網路書店上面來買書每個月七號每個月五號我都會買那一樣那這一個事件大家外界認為是說文化部是請了幾天是不是請錯了訪試員\n\n29\n00:10:52,369 --> 00:11:07,822\n未來怎麼樣避免?謝謝委員,我想委員也做過文化局長,應該有更清楚。是,跟您同期。對,我們所有政府的補助,在補助之後一定會有一個追蹤管考。希望能夠了解他拿了國家納稅人的錢,他的執行的狀況。那以實體書店補助來講的話,我們委託的就是獨立書店的協會。由獨立書店協會這個公法人來評。\n\n30\n00:11:15,488 --> 00:11:31,413\n與他認同的學者專家相關。學者專家有沒有再去他們的言行?他們所推薦的學者專家裡面就是包括你剛剛講的這位蔡先生所以基本上我們是死掉未及但是我覺得接受公法人\n\n31\n00:11:31,633 --> 00:11:46,149\n或公協會推薦學者專家作為他們自己接受補助的方式這其實本來就是一個比較社會參與公民參與的方式只是說這個獨立的個案是我們始料未及所以絕對不是請幾個地方\n\n32\n00:11:48,872 --> 00:12:17,670\n那未來怎麼樣避免呢?我想我也不希望產生寒蟬效應啦說因為這樣子所以我們對於所有的這個被推薦的這個訪視委員或相關的委員我們都好像進行了一個這個審查或者是這個這個這個查核的工作我覺得基本上但我們當然希望說這些訪視員他其實來是跟我們一起站在一起是可以鼓勵或是推廣獨立書店加強獨立書店的一個運作嘛是我們現在有多少訪視員?\n\n33\n00:12:19,429 --> 00:12:42,078\n每一年的狀況不大一樣因為他其實今年是二十位啦因為全國的獨立書店很多嘛你也不可能期待一個訪視員跑全部的書店所以他基本上是分區責任辦理也不是為了說這是什麼夢幻工作事實上就是一個出席費而已訪視員基本上幫我們去follow他拿到政府補助他的執行狀況寫成報告同時呢他也\n\n34\n00:12:44,039 --> 00:13:00,523\n那訪視員會不會每年做一個這個確認或是說他們的一個至少他們訪視的一個成效KPI當然會以發生這樣的事情來講以發生這樣的事情來講未來獨立書店協會如果還要再推薦訪視員那恐怕我們就會更嚴謹的來考核了嘛好是\n\n35\n00:13:00,643 --> 00:13:00,903\n主席韓宜漢\n\n36\n00:13:29,517 --> 00:13:31,201\n好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11677\t31485\t主席謝謝麻煩請史哲部長請部長委員長部長好部長第一次的這個今年第一次文化部的業務報告本席幾個比較關鍵性及立場性的問題要跟你來做請教首先周楚俗傷害這部國片你有看過嗎\n32287\t60871\t有,我有看過有看過嘛也獲得我們文化部的這個長片補助那以及很多我們不管是影視、私相關的這個補助本席算了一下這個主持人在這部電影至少文化部有這個超過1500萬以上的補助是好那最近有傳出其實也不是最近啦10月的時候就爆發出這個劇本抄襲的事件文化部有沒有去做了解我想我們影視局有進行過了解好,了解有沒有抄襲\n63462\t83859\t不能隨便講欸史哲部長有了解就有了解沒了解就沒了解不能隨便講阿有沒有抄襲但是他不是抄襲恐怕不是我們能夠認定的不是阿你有了解當然你要去做認定到底有沒有抄襲阿沒有抄襲這個是一個法律名詞這是不需要抄襲是法律名詞但是你政府部門是補助單位嘛\n84560\t93942\t那你補助單位你有沒有了解是說你補助的這個電影公司他到底現在打的這個官司那初步了解他到底有沒有往這個方向走\n94974\t120301\t這個我想我們尊重他已經進入司法程序啦但是我們在補助當下確實是沒有這個問題確實是沒有這個問題嘛不是本席今天是一個立場的立場的說明好不好部長不要那麼緊張但是本席為什麼會提出來因為這件事情從去年10月就爆發了最近又在炒比較沸沸揚升因為中國廚師在中國大陸賣得很好所以說又再炒出來但是當然進入司法如果說他們真的有民事糾紛可是\n121381\t144904\t畢竟我們文化部有補助至少超過1500萬嘛那你1500萬你總是要了解是說你補助了這個公司他到底是不是拿原創的劇本來不然的話難道文化部鼓勵這樣的一個犯罪行為嗎當然不鼓勵嘛 對不對所以你第一初步認定是他沒有抄襲我沒有這樣講我只是說我們沒有辦法進行這個代替法院來判斷這個事情\n146425\t174310\t那如果說你要這樣講的話那如果說未來假設真的有抄寫的話這1500萬要不要追回來依照法規是要依照法規是要好本席還是再一次強調我們鼓勵我們每一個國片我們當然也說我們每一個國片都做好但是因為畢竟現在有這樣的一個行為這樣的一個事件爆發所以我才會提出來是應該要有我們文化的總主管機關你也要去做了解不是說只是等法院那不然的話法院\n174810\t190829\t他什麼時候出來我們不知道可是你在補助的當下你當然應該要去了解說你們補助的每一個是不是都是原創劇本是不是都沒有違法行為嘛是來再來第二個部分最近呢鳥山明作者他離開大家也都非常的難過\n191790\t208765\t他創下的這個契龍珠的IP我相信這是全世界大家共同的一個文化那也有人看到是說他就留下來這個遊樂場開始有這個國家要去做他的一個遊樂場那韓國他們現在也在2027年也要推動一個新計畫叫做網賣\n210336\t216801\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度\n227429\t253341\t一個IP漫畫之後可以變成是電影影視然後創造非常多的一個商機那請教在這一個部分我們文化部有沒有看到有沒有什麼比較具體的措施除了你今天的報告有講到在第11頁國家漫畫博物館本市肯定國家漫畫博物館以外有沒有比較具體的措施是謝謝委員的這個我們要投入多少錢在多少的時間裡面有什麼樣比較具體的計畫是謝謝\n254221\t281421\t我想漫畫確實是一個非常有利基的一個IP尤其它是圖文而且它分鏡的這個基礎所以因此我們在去年除了國家漫畫博物館確定落腳台中之外其實我們今年產生一個最新的政策就是有關於漫畫的長篇的輔導金的這個開始的實施因為事實上一個漫畫它要成為一個強而有力的IP它事實上是需要長篇連載那我們過去的漫畫輔導金事實上是針對短篇\n281881\t284683\t總金費多少錢?總金費我們大概目前是以3000萬為基礎3000萬所以你說800萬最高的話你平均就差不多4部5部作品\n301236\t327359\t這是初期啦 我想我們會看真愛的狀況來去然後另外本席強調的是說對方就是說當韓國他是希望是說打造一個平台就是像Netflix的概念等於是Netflix是影劇的平台他希望是說網賣是打造一個Netflix的一個漫畫平台可以讓所有的這個好的漫畫放在那上面然後讓大家可能去買月租費然後去上網觀看讓這些漫畫可以無遠弗屆的讓全世界都看到\n328679\t344206\t這個我不想講說人家已經上太空了我們還在殺豬公啦但是確實你剛講我們今年開始長篇漫畫3000萬有網友就講是說為什麼台灣養不出鳥山明等級的漫畫家其實本席我先講我的立場喔\n344346\t369686\t我也不喜歡是說每一次就是有一個什麼事情的時候我們就講說為什麼台灣沒有這樣子因為其實這方方面面很多可是當裡面有提到是說政府為提供金源以及市場規模不大的時候這個是我們可以去深思的就是說我們怎麼樣能夠把餅做大然後以及我們怎麼樣能夠培養我們更好的人才能夠投入這一塊讓大家覺得說投入這一塊產業是有未來前景的部長你同意嗎\n370366\t390231\t完全同意我想這個部分確實我們一直在加強當中所以當然台灣整個漫畫市場受到的影響有多重的因素啦當然但是就是說我們能夠怎麼樣做因為韓國也在做這個事情而且2027年我想我也拜託部長今天回去請同仁好好針對韓國現在的做法來去做一個研究當\n391591\t416124\t十年前他們有這個K-pop他們有這個戲劇以及當現在他們已經要在第三波的這時候漫畫的時候我們除了我們自己的台劇華劇以外我們怎麼樣能夠更加強這一個部分是所以部長能夠針對這部分有一個比較具體的措施能夠再提供給我們教育文化委員會這邊委員來做參考好是的我會提供多久時間我想一個月的時間一定會提供一個月時間\n417608\t431233\t部長再來既然剛有提到漫畫的重點在於是原創原創的精神很重要因為它就是一個IP的一個創造那現在也有討論原創沸沸揚揚就是iWIN的事件很多\n432338\t457227\t人也在講是說二次元創作是不是違反兒少性剝削條例各國都覺得說有差異當然我們一定是保護兒童保護青少年絕對這個是沒有問題可是現在當日本漫畫家跟參議員也聲援台灣創作自由的時候我請教速發部NCC在討論這個I win的這個部分有沒有找我們文化部來開會\n458169\t481489\t最近一次是衛福部的諮商會有找文化部那文化部的立場是什麼我想跟委員的立場基本上是相近的啦不要把我拖下水你的立場啦文化部的立場是什麼因為很重要到底是支持創作原創的這個精神還是像現在一樣包山包海什麼都先預防性下降\n482261\t484602\t二、創作者的自由也必須要被保障。我想基本上\n500131\t500972\t部長,你這樣說一分錢哪有說哪沒說\n530686\t553504\t三二七今天有要再召開多方利害關係人會議那請教因為上一次有開會的創作者強調說沒有共識只有衛福部自行下結論那今天三二七又要在iWIN這邊又要開會文化部有沒有時候要代表出席有是不是能夠請文化部代表出席的時候也表達今天部長講的這個話我覺得\n556328\t580828\t我自己身為兩個孩子的父親我想大家在座也都有小孩不管是男生女生其實我們兒少的保護大家都重要這個不分你我不分彼此不分黨派但另外一個部分創作者也很重要你不是說一槓子打翻一傳人所以我很強調什麼我很強調是說實體、色情該抓就抓甚至嚴懲重罰但是創作的部分你要保留創作的精神\n581568\t596648\t不是畫的臉有點像這個小朋友那他就認定說他就是兒少男他就是犯法侵權這一點部長可以同意嗎是的我剛剛跟文化部的代表今天是不是下午的會議的時候也表達這樣的立場\n597088\t613093\t是,會的,我想我們剛剛的發言包括說我說我支持集育我支持分級其實某種程度上就代表說我對創作希望給予它最大的空間因為文化部真的還是要站在創作者這一個部分最後在這一次有禮拜六的時候有這個獨立書店的這個訪視員的爭議當然文化部第一時間快刀斬亂馬可是\n622216\t648821\t深圍很多人就講是說哇原來有書店訪試員這樣的一個工作好像是夢幻工作很多人在問說怎麼樣應徵有沒有然後呢也有在講是說實體書店跟這個線上書店我個人兩個都有我也喜歡逛書店我也會在這個大的網路書店上面來買書每個月七號每個月五號我都會買那一樣那這一個事件大家外界認為是說文化部是請了幾天是不是請錯了訪試員\n652369\t667822\t未來怎麼樣避免?謝謝委員,我想委員也做過文化局長,應該有更清楚。是,跟您同期。對,我們所有政府的補助,在補助之後一定會有一個追蹤管考。希望能夠了解他拿了國家納稅人的錢,他的執行的狀況。那以實體書店補助來講的話,我們委託的就是獨立書店的協會。由獨立書店協會這個公法人來評。\n675488\t691413\t與他認同的學者專家相關。學者專家有沒有再去他們的言行?他們所推薦的學者專家裡面就是包括你剛剛講的這位蔡先生所以基本上我們是死掉未及但是我覺得接受公法人\n691633\t706149\t或公協會推薦學者專家作為他們自己接受補助的方式這其實本來就是一個比較社會參與公民參與的方式只是說這個獨立的個案是我們始料未及所以絕對不是請幾個地方\n708872\t737670\t那未來怎麼樣避免呢?我想我也不希望產生寒蟬效應啦說因為這樣子所以我們對於所有的這個被推薦的這個訪視委員或相關的委員我們都好像進行了一個這個審查或者是這個這個這個查核的工作我覺得基本上但我們當然希望說這些訪視員他其實來是跟我們一起站在一起是可以鼓勵或是推廣獨立書店加強獨立書店的一個運作嘛是我們現在有多少訪視員?\n739429\t762078\t每一年的狀況不大一樣因為他其實今年是二十位啦因為全國的獨立書店很多嘛你也不可能期待一個訪視員跑全部的書店所以他基本上是分區責任辦理也不是為了說這是什麼夢幻工作事實上就是一個出席費而已訪視員基本上幫我們去follow他拿到政府補助他的執行狀況寫成報告同時呢他也\n764039\t780523\t那訪視員會不會每年做一個這個確認或是說他們的一個至少他們訪視的一個成效KPI當然會 以發生這樣的事情來講以發生這樣的事情來講未來獨立書店協會如果還要再推薦訪視員那恐怕我們就會更嚴謹的來考核了嘛好 是\n780643\t780903\t主席韓宜漢\n809517\t811201\t好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請史哲部長請部長委員長部長好部長第一次的這個今年第一次文化部的業務報告本席幾個比較關鍵性及立場性的問題要跟你來做請教首先周楚俗傷害這部國片你有看過嗎\n有,我有看過有看過嘛也獲得我們文化部的這個長片補助那以及很多我們不管是影視、私相關的這個補助本席算了一下這個主持人在這部電影至少文化部有這個超過1500萬以上的補助是好那最近有傳出其實也不是最近啦10月的時候就爆發出這個劇本抄襲的事件文化部有沒有去做了解我想我們影視局有進行過了解好,了解有沒有抄襲\n不能隨便講欸史哲部長有了解就有了解沒了解就沒了解不能隨便講阿有沒有抄襲但是他不是抄襲恐怕不是我們能夠認定的不是阿你有了解當然你要去做認定到底有沒有抄襲阿沒有抄襲這個是一個法律名詞這是不需要抄襲是法律名詞但是你政府部門是補助單位嘛\n那你補助單位你有沒有了解是說你補助的這個電影公司他到底現在打的這個官司那初步了解他到底有沒有往這個方向走\n這個我想我們尊重他已經進入司法程序啦但是我們在補助當下確實是沒有這個問題確實是沒有這個問題嘛不是本席今天是一個立場的立場的說明好不好部長不要那麼緊張但是本席為什麼會提出來因為這件事情從去年10月就爆發了最近又在炒比較沸沸揚升因為中國廚師在中國大陸賣得很好所以說又再炒出來但是當然進入司法如果說他們真的有民事糾紛可是\n畢竟我們文化部有補助至少超過1500萬嘛那你1500萬你總是要了解是說你補助了這個公司他到底是不是拿原創的劇本來不然的話難道文化部鼓勵這樣的一個犯罪行為嗎當然不鼓勵嘛 對不對所以你第一初步認定是他沒有抄襲我沒有這樣講我只是說我們沒有辦法進行這個代替法院來判斷這個事情\n那如果說你要這樣講的話那如果說未來假設真的有抄寫的話這1500萬要不要追回來依照法規是要依照法規是要好本席還是再一次強調我們鼓勵我們每一個國片我們當然也說我們每一個國片都做好但是因為畢竟現在有這樣的一個行為這樣的一個事件爆發所以我才會提出來是應該要有我們文化的總主管機關你也要去做了解不是說只是等法院那不然的話法院\n他什麼時候出來我們不知道可是你在補助的當下你當然應該要去了解說你們補助的每一個是不是都是原創劇本是不是都沒有違法行為嘛是來再來第二個部分最近呢鳥山明作者他離開大家也都非常的難過\n他創下的這個契龍珠的IP我相信這是全世界大家共同的一個文化那也有人看到是說他就留下來這個遊樂場開始有這個國家要去做他的一個遊樂場那韓國他們現在也在2027年也要推動一個新計畫叫做網賣\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度\n一個IP漫畫之後可以變成是電影影視然後創造非常多的一個商機那請教在這一個部分我們文化部有沒有看到有沒有什麼比較具體的措施除了你今天的報告有講到在第11頁國家漫畫博物館本市肯定國家漫畫博物館以外有沒有比較具體的措施是謝謝委員的這個我們要投入多少錢在多少的時間裡面有什麼樣比較具體的計畫是謝謝\n我想漫畫確實是一個非常有利基的一個IP尤其它是圖文而且它分鏡的這個基礎所以因此我們在去年除了國家漫畫博物館確定落腳台中之外其實我們今年產生一個最新的政策就是有關於漫畫的長篇的輔導金的這個開始的實施因為事實上一個漫畫它要成為一個強而有力的IP它事實上是需要長篇連載那我們過去的漫畫輔導金事實上是針對短篇\n總金費多少錢?總金費我們大概目前是以3000萬為基礎3000萬所以你說800萬最高的話你平均就差不多4部5部作品\n這是初期啦 我想我們會看真愛的狀況來去然後另外本席強調的是說對方就是說當韓國他是希望是說打造一個平台就是像Netflix的概念等於是Netflix是影劇的平台他希望是說網賣是打造一個Netflix的一個漫畫平台可以讓所有的這個好的漫畫放在那上面然後讓大家可能去買月租費然後去上網觀看讓這些漫畫可以無遠弗屆的讓全世界都看到\n這個我不想講說人家已經上太空了我們還在殺豬公啦但是確實你剛講我們今年開始長篇漫畫3000萬有網友就講是說為什麼台灣養不出鳥山明等級的漫畫家其實本席我先講我的立場喔\n我也不喜歡是說每一次就是有一個什麼事情的時候我們就講說為什麼台灣沒有這樣子因為其實這方方面面很多可是當裡面有提到是說政府為提供金源以及市場規模不大的時候這個是我們可以去深思的就是說我們怎麼樣能夠把餅做大然後以及我們怎麼樣能夠培養我們更好的人才能夠投入這一塊讓大家覺得說投入這一塊產業是有未來前景的部長你同意嗎\n完全同意我想這個部分確實我們一直在加強當中所以當然台灣整個漫畫市場受到的影響有多重的因素啦當然但是就是說我們能夠怎麼樣做因為韓國也在做這個事情而且2027年我想我也拜託部長今天回去請同仁好好針對韓國現在的做法來去做一個研究當\n十年前他們有這個K-pop他們有這個戲劇以及當現在他們已經要在第三波的這時候漫畫的時候我們除了我們自己的台劇華劇以外我們怎麼樣能夠更加強這一個部分是所以部長能夠針對這部分有一個比較具體的措施能夠再提供給我們教育文化委員會這邊委員來做參考好是的我會提供多久時間我想一個月的時間一定會提供一個月時間\n部長再來既然剛有提到漫畫的重點在於是原創原創的精神很重要因為它就是一個IP的一個創造那現在也有討論原創沸沸揚揚就是iWIN的事件很多\n人也在講是說二次元創作是不是違反兒少性剝削條例各國都覺得說有差異當然我們一定是保護兒童保護青少年絕對這個是沒有問題可是現在當日本漫畫家跟參議員也聲援台灣創作自由的時候我請教速發部NCC在討論這個I win的這個部分有沒有找我們文化部來開會\n最近一次是衛福部的諮商會有找文化部那文化部的立場是什麼我想跟委員的立場基本上是相近的啦不要把我拖下水你的立場啦文化部的立場是什麼因為很重要到底是支持創作原創的這個精神還是像現在一樣包山包海什麼都先預防性下降\n二、創作者的自由也必須要被保障。我想基本上\n部長,你這樣說一分錢哪有說哪沒說\n三二七今天有要再召開多方利害關係人會議那請教因為上一次有開會的創作者強調說沒有共識只有衛福部自行下結論那今天三二七又要在iWIN這邊又要開會文化部有沒有時候要代表出席有是不是能夠請文化部代表出席的時候也表達今天部長講的這個話我覺得\n我自己身為兩個孩子的父親我想大家在座也都有小孩不管是男生女生其實我們兒少的保護大家都重要這個不分你我不分彼此不分黨派但另外一個部分創作者也很重要你不是說一槓子打翻一傳人所以我很強調什麼我很強調是說實體、色情該抓就抓甚至嚴懲重罰但是創作的部分你要保留創作的精神\n不是畫的臉有點像這個小朋友那他就認定說他就是兒少男他就是犯法侵權這一點部長可以同意嗎是的我剛剛跟文化部的代表今天是不是下午的會議的時候也表達這樣的立場\n是,會的,我想我們剛剛的發言包括說我說我支持集育我支持分級其實某種程度上就代表說我對創作希望給予它最大的空間因為文化部真的還是要站在創作者這一個部分最後在這一次有禮拜六的時候有這個獨立書店的這個訪視員的爭議當然文化部第一時間快刀斬亂馬可是\n深圍很多人就講是說哇原來有書店訪試員這樣的一個工作好像是夢幻工作很多人在問說怎麼樣應徵有沒有然後呢也有在講是說實體書店跟這個線上書店我個人兩個都有我也喜歡逛書店我也會在這個大的網路書店上面來買書每個月七號每個月五號我都會買那一樣那這一個事件大家外界認為是說文化部是請了幾天是不是請錯了訪試員\n未來怎麼樣避免?謝謝委員,我想委員也做過文化局長,應該有更清楚。是,跟您同期。對,我們所有政府的補助,在補助之後一定會有一個追蹤管考。希望能夠了解他拿了國家納稅人的錢,他的執行的狀況。那以實體書店補助來講的話,我們委託的就是獨立書店的協會。由獨立書店協會這個公法人來評。\n與他認同的學者專家相關。學者專家有沒有再去他們的言行?他們所推薦的學者專家裡面就是包括你剛剛講的這位蔡先生所以基本上我們是死掉未及但是我覺得接受公法人\n或公協會推薦學者專家作為他們自己接受補助的方式這其實本來就是一個比較社會參與公民參與的方式只是說這個獨立的個案是我們始料未及所以絕對不是請幾個地方\n那未來怎麼樣避免呢?我想我也不希望產生寒蟬效應啦說因為這樣子所以我們對於所有的這個被推薦的這個訪視委員或相關的委員我們都好像進行了一個這個審查或者是這個這個這個查核的工作我覺得基本上但我們當然希望說這些訪視員他其實來是跟我們一起站在一起是可以鼓勵或是推廣獨立書店加強獨立書店的一個運作嘛是我們現在有多少訪視員?\n每一年的狀況不大一樣因為他其實今年是二十位啦因為全國的獨立書店很多嘛你也不可能期待一個訪視員跑全部的書店所以他基本上是分區責任辦理也不是為了說這是什麼夢幻工作事實上就是一個出席費而已訪視員基本上幫我們去follow他拿到政府補助他的執行狀況寫成報告同時呢他也\n那訪視員會不會每年做一個這個確認或是說他們的一個至少他們訪視的一個成效KPI當然會 以發生這樣的事情來講以發生這樣的事情來講未來獨立書店協會如果還要再推薦訪視員那恐怕我們就會更嚴謹的來考核了嘛好 是\n主席韓宜漢\n好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.677 --> 00:31.485\n主席謝謝麻煩請史哲部長請部長委員長部長好部長第一次的這個今年第一次文化部的業務報告本席幾個比較關鍵性及立場性的問題要跟你來做請教首先周楚俗傷害這部國片你有看過嗎\n\n00:32.287 --> 01:00.871\n有,我有看過有看過嘛也獲得我們文化部的這個長片補助那以及很多我們不管是影視、私相關的這個補助本席算了一下這個主持人在這部電影至少文化部有這個超過1500萬以上的補助是好那最近有傳出其實也不是最近啦10月的時候就爆發出這個劇本抄襲的事件文化部有沒有去做了解我想我們影視局有進行過了解好,了解有沒有抄襲\n\n01:03.462 --> 01:23.859\n不能隨便講欸史哲部長有了解就有了解沒了解就沒了解不能隨便講阿有沒有抄襲但是他不是抄襲恐怕不是我們能夠認定的不是阿你有了解當然你要去做認定到底有沒有抄襲阿沒有抄襲這個是一個法律名詞這是不需要抄襲是法律名詞但是你政府部門是補助單位嘛\n\n01:24.560 --> 01:33.942\n那你補助單位你有沒有了解是說你補助的這個電影公司他到底現在打的這個官司那初步了解他到底有沒有往這個方向走\n\n01:34.974 --> 02:00.301\n這個我想我們尊重他已經進入司法程序啦但是我們在補助當下確實是沒有這個問題確實是沒有這個問題嘛不是本席今天是一個立場的立場的說明好不好部長不要那麼緊張但是本席為什麼會提出來因為這件事情從去年10月就爆發了最近又在炒比較沸沸揚升因為中國廚師在中國大陸賣得很好所以說又再炒出來但是當然進入司法如果說他們真的有民事糾紛可是\n\n02:01.381 --> 02:24.904\n畢竟我們文化部有補助至少超過1500萬嘛那你1500萬你總是要了解是說你補助了這個公司他到底是不是拿原創的劇本來不然的話難道文化部鼓勵這樣的一個犯罪行為嗎當然不鼓勵嘛對不對所以你第一初步認定是他沒有抄襲我沒有這樣講我只是說我們沒有辦法進行這個代替法院來判斷這個事情\n\n02:26.425 --> 02:54.310\n那如果說你要這樣講的話那如果說未來假設真的有抄寫的話這1500萬要不要追回來依照法規是要依照法規是要好本席還是再一次強調我們鼓勵我們每一個國片我們當然也說我們每一個國片都做好但是因為畢竟現在有這樣的一個行為這樣的一個事件爆發所以我才會提出來是應該要有我們文化的總主管機關你也要去做了解不是說只是等法院那不然的話法院\n\n02:54.810 --> 03:10.829\n他什麼時候出來我們不知道可是你在補助的當下你當然應該要去了解說你們補助的每一個是不是都是原創劇本是不是都沒有違法行為嘛是來再來第二個部分最近呢鳥山明作者他離開大家也都非常的難過\n\n03:11.790 --> 03:28.765\n他創下的這個契龍珠的IP我相信這是全世界大家共同的一個文化那也有人看到是說他就留下來這個遊樂場開始有這個國家要去做他的一個遊樂場那韓國他們現在也在2027年也要推動一個新計畫叫做網賣\n\n03:30.336 --> 03:36.801\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度\n\n03:47.429 --> 04:13.341\n一個IP漫畫之後可以變成是電影影視然後創造非常多的一個商機那請教在這一個部分我們文化部有沒有看到有沒有什麼比較具體的措施除了你今天的報告有講到在第11頁國家漫畫博物館本市肯定國家漫畫博物館以外有沒有比較具體的措施是謝謝委員的這個我們要投入多少錢在多少的時間裡面有什麼樣比較具體的計畫是謝謝\n\n04:14.221 --> 04:41.421\n我想漫畫確實是一個非常有利基的一個IP尤其它是圖文而且它分鏡的這個基礎所以因此我們在去年除了國家漫畫博物館確定落腳台中之外其實我們今年產生一個最新的政策就是有關於漫畫的長篇的輔導金的這個開始的實施因為事實上一個漫畫它要成為一個強而有力的IP它事實上是需要長篇連載那我們過去的漫畫輔導金事實上是針對短篇\n\n04:41.881 --> 04:44.683\n總金費多少錢?總金費我們大概目前是以3000萬為基礎3000萬所以你說800萬最高的話你平均就差不多4部5部作品\n\n05:01.236 --> 05:27.359\n這是初期啦我想我們會看真愛的狀況來去然後另外本席強調的是說對方就是說當韓國他是希望是說打造一個平台就是像Netflix的概念等於是Netflix是影劇的平台他希望是說網賣是打造一個Netflix的一個漫畫平台可以讓所有的這個好的漫畫放在那上面然後讓大家可能去買月租費然後去上網觀看讓這些漫畫可以無遠弗屆的讓全世界都看到\n\n05:28.679 --> 05:44.206\n這個我不想講說人家已經上太空了我們還在殺豬公啦但是確實你剛講我們今年開始長篇漫畫3000萬有網友就講是說為什麼台灣養不出鳥山明等級的漫畫家其實本席我先講我的立場喔\n\n05:44.346 --> 06:09.686\n我也不喜歡是說每一次就是有一個什麼事情的時候我們就講說為什麼台灣沒有這樣子因為其實這方方面面很多可是當裡面有提到是說政府為提供金源以及市場規模不大的時候這個是我們可以去深思的就是說我們怎麼樣能夠把餅做大然後以及我們怎麼樣能夠培養我們更好的人才能夠投入這一塊讓大家覺得說投入這一塊產業是有未來前景的部長你同意嗎\n\n06:10.366 --> 06:30.231\n完全同意我想這個部分確實我們一直在加強當中所以當然台灣整個漫畫市場受到的影響有多重的因素啦當然但是就是說我們能夠怎麼樣做因為韓國也在做這個事情而且2027年我想我也拜託部長今天回去請同仁好好針對韓國現在的做法來去做一個研究當\n\n06:31.591 --> 06:56.124\n十年前他們有這個K-pop他們有這個戲劇以及當現在他們已經要在第三波的這時候漫畫的時候我們除了我們自己的台劇華劇以外我們怎麼樣能夠更加強這一個部分是所以部長能夠針對這部分有一個比較具體的措施能夠再提供給我們教育文化委員會這邊委員來做參考好是的我會提供多久時間我想一個月的時間一定會提供一個月時間\n\n06:57.608 --> 07:11.233\n部長再來既然剛有提到漫畫的重點在於是原創原創的精神很重要因為它就是一個IP的一個創造那現在也有討論原創沸沸揚揚就是iWIN的事件很多\n\n07:12.338 --> 07:37.227\n人也在講是說二次元創作是不是違反兒少性剝削條例各國都覺得說有差異當然我們一定是保護兒童保護青少年絕對這個是沒有問題可是現在當日本漫畫家跟參議員也聲援台灣創作自由的時候我請教速發部NCC在討論這個Iwin的這個部分有沒有找我們文化部來開會\n\n07:38.169 --> 08:01.489\n最近一次是衛福部的諮商會有找文化部那文化部的立場是什麼我想跟委員的立場基本上是相近的啦不要把我拖下水你的立場啦文化部的立場是什麼因為很重要到底是支持創作原創的這個精神還是像現在一樣包山包海什麼都先預防性下降\n\n08:02.261 --> 08:04.602\n二、創作者的自由也必須要被保障。我想基本上\n\n08:20.131 --> 08:20.972\n部長,你這樣說一分錢哪有說哪沒說\n\n08:50.686 --> 09:13.504\n三二七今天有要再召開多方利害關係人會議那請教因為上一次有開會的創作者強調說沒有共識只有衛福部自行下結論那今天三二七又要在iWIN這邊又要開會文化部有沒有時候要代表出席有是不是能夠請文化部代表出席的時候也表達今天部長講的這個話我覺得\n\n09:16.328 --> 09:40.828\n我自己身為兩個孩子的父親我想大家在座也都有小孩不管是男生女生其實我們兒少的保護大家都重要這個不分你我不分彼此不分黨派但另外一個部分創作者也很重要你不是說一槓子打翻一傳人所以我很強調什麼我很強調是說實體、色情該抓就抓甚至嚴懲重罰但是創作的部分你要保留創作的精神\n\n09:41.568 --> 09:56.648\n不是畫的臉有點像這個小朋友那他就認定說他就是兒少男他就是犯法侵權這一點部長可以同意嗎是的我剛剛跟文化部的代表今天是不是下午的會議的時候也表達這樣的立場\n\n09:57.088 --> 10:13.093\n是,會的,我想我們剛剛的發言包括說我說我支持集育我支持分級其實某種程度上就代表說我對創作希望給予它最大的空間因為文化部真的還是要站在創作者這一個部分最後在這一次有禮拜六的時候有這個獨立書店的這個訪視員的爭議當然文化部第一時間快刀斬亂馬可是\n\n10:22.216 --> 10:48.821\n深圍很多人就講是說哇原來有書店訪試員這樣的一個工作好像是夢幻工作很多人在問說怎麼樣應徵有沒有然後呢也有在講是說實體書店跟這個線上書店我個人兩個都有我也喜歡逛書店我也會在這個大的網路書店上面來買書每個月七號每個月五號我都會買那一樣那這一個事件大家外界認為是說文化部是請了幾天是不是請錯了訪試員\n\n10:52.369 --> 11:07.822\n未來怎麼樣避免?謝謝委員,我想委員也做過文化局長,應該有更清楚。是,跟您同期。對,我們所有政府的補助,在補助之後一定會有一個追蹤管考。希望能夠了解他拿了國家納稅人的錢,他的執行的狀況。那以實體書店補助來講的話,我們委託的就是獨立書店的協會。由獨立書店協會這個公法人來評。\n\n11:15.488 --> 11:31.413\n與他認同的學者專家相關。學者專家有沒有再去他們的言行?他們所推薦的學者專家裡面就是包括你剛剛講的這位蔡先生所以基本上我們是死掉未及但是我覺得接受公法人\n\n11:31.633 --> 11:46.149\n或公協會推薦學者專家作為他們自己接受補助的方式這其實本來就是一個比較社會參與公民參與的方式只是說這個獨立的個案是我們始料未及所以絕對不是請幾個地方\n\n11:48.872 --> 12:17.670\n那未來怎麼樣避免呢?我想我也不希望產生寒蟬效應啦說因為這樣子所以我們對於所有的這個被推薦的這個訪視委員或相關的委員我們都好像進行了一個這個審查或者是這個這個這個查核的工作我覺得基本上但我們當然希望說這些訪視員他其實來是跟我們一起站在一起是可以鼓勵或是推廣獨立書店加強獨立書店的一個運作嘛是我們現在有多少訪視員?\n\n12:19.429 --> 12:42.078\n每一年的狀況不大一樣因為他其實今年是二十位啦因為全國的獨立書店很多嘛你也不可能期待一個訪視員跑全部的書店所以他基本上是分區責任辦理也不是為了說這是什麼夢幻工作事實上就是一個出席費而已訪視員基本上幫我們去follow他拿到政府補助他的執行狀況寫成報告同時呢他也\n\n12:44.039 --> 13:00.523\n那訪視員會不會每年做一個這個確認或是說他們的一個至少他們訪視的一個成效KPI當然會以發生這樣的事情來講以發生這樣的事情來講未來獨立書店協會如果還要再推薦訪視員那恐怕我們就會更嚴謹的來考核了嘛好是\n\n13:00.643 --> 13:00.903\n主席韓宜漢\n\n13:29.517 --> 13:31.201\n好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.677,"end":31.485,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請史哲部長請部長委員長部長好部長第一次的這個今年第一次文化部的業務報告本席幾個比較關鍵性及立場性的問題要跟你來做請教首先周楚俗傷害這部國片你有看過嗎"},{"start":32.287,"end":60.871,"text":"有,我有看過有看過嘛也獲得我們文化部的這個長片補助那以及很多我們不管是影視、私相關的這個補助本席算了一下這個主持人在這部電影至少文化部有這個超過1500萬以上的補助是好那最近有傳出其實也不是最近啦10月的時候就爆發出這個劇本抄襲的事件文化部有沒有去做了解我想我們影視局有進行過了解好,了解有沒有抄襲"},{"start":63.462,"end":83.859,"text":"不能隨便講欸史哲部長有了解就有了解沒了解就沒了解不能隨便講阿有沒有抄襲但是他不是抄襲恐怕不是我們能夠認定的不是阿你有了解當然你要去做認定到底有沒有抄襲阿沒有抄襲這個是一個法律名詞這是不需要抄襲是法律名詞但是你政府部門是補助單位嘛"},{"start":84.56,"end":93.942,"text":"那你補助單位你有沒有了解是說你補助的這個電影公司他到底現在打的這個官司那初步了解他到底有沒有往這個方向走"},{"start":94.974,"end":120.301,"text":"這個我想我們尊重他已經進入司法程序啦但是我們在補助當下確實是沒有這個問題確實是沒有這個問題嘛不是本席今天是一個立場的立場的說明好不好部長不要那麼緊張但是本席為什麼會提出來因為這件事情從去年10月就爆發了最近又在炒比較沸沸揚升因為中國廚師在中國大陸賣得很好所以說又再炒出來但是當然進入司法如果說他們真的有民事糾紛可是"},{"start":121.381,"end":144.904,"text":"畢竟我們文化部有補助至少超過1500萬嘛那你1500萬你總是要了解是說你補助了這個公司他到底是不是拿原創的劇本來不然的話難道文化部鼓勵這樣的一個犯罪行為嗎當然不鼓勵嘛 對不對所以你第一初步認定是他沒有抄襲我沒有這樣講我只是說我們沒有辦法進行這個代替法院來判斷這個事情"},{"start":146.425,"end":174.31,"text":"那如果說你要這樣講的話那如果說未來假設真的有抄寫的話這1500萬要不要追回來依照法規是要依照法規是要好本席還是再一次強調我們鼓勵我們每一個國片我們當然也說我們每一個國片都做好但是因為畢竟現在有這樣的一個行為這樣的一個事件爆發所以我才會提出來是應該要有我們文化的總主管機關你也要去做了解不是說只是等法院那不然的話法院"},{"start":174.81,"end":190.829,"text":"他什麼時候出來我們不知道可是你在補助的當下你當然應該要去了解說你們補助的每一個是不是都是原創劇本是不是都沒有違法行為嘛是來再來第二個部分最近呢鳥山明作者他離開大家也都非常的難過"},{"start":191.79,"end":208.765,"text":"他創下的這個契龍珠的IP我相信這是全世界大家共同的一個文化那也有人看到是說他就留下來這個遊樂場開始有這個國家要去做他的一個遊樂場那韓國他們現在也在2027年也要推動一個新計畫叫做網賣"},{"start":210.336,"end":216.801,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度中央政府總預算已發言委員會及2027年度"},{"start":227.429,"end":253.341,"text":"一個IP漫畫之後可以變成是電影影視然後創造非常多的一個商機那請教在這一個部分我們文化部有沒有看到有沒有什麼比較具體的措施除了你今天的報告有講到在第11頁國家漫畫博物館本市肯定國家漫畫博物館以外有沒有比較具體的措施是謝謝委員的這個我們要投入多少錢在多少的時間裡面有什麼樣比較具體的計畫是謝謝"},{"start":254.221,"end":281.421,"text":"我想漫畫確實是一個非常有利基的一個IP尤其它是圖文而且它分鏡的這個基礎所以因此我們在去年除了國家漫畫博物館確定落腳台中之外其實我們今年產生一個最新的政策就是有關於漫畫的長篇的輔導金的這個開始的實施因為事實上一個漫畫它要成為一個強而有力的IP它事實上是需要長篇連載那我們過去的漫畫輔導金事實上是針對短篇"},{"start":281.881,"end":284.683,"text":"總金費多少錢?總金費我們大概目前是以3000萬為基礎3000萬所以你說800萬最高的話你平均就差不多4部5部作品"},{"start":301.236,"end":327.359,"text":"這是初期啦 我想我們會看真愛的狀況來去然後另外本席強調的是說對方就是說當韓國他是希望是說打造一個平台就是像Netflix的概念等於是Netflix是影劇的平台他希望是說網賣是打造一個Netflix的一個漫畫平台可以讓所有的這個好的漫畫放在那上面然後讓大家可能去買月租費然後去上網觀看讓這些漫畫可以無遠弗屆的讓全世界都看到"},{"start":328.679,"end":344.206,"text":"這個我不想講說人家已經上太空了我們還在殺豬公啦但是確實你剛講我們今年開始長篇漫畫3000萬有網友就講是說為什麼台灣養不出鳥山明等級的漫畫家其實本席我先講我的立場喔"},{"start":344.346,"end":369.686,"text":"我也不喜歡是說每一次就是有一個什麼事情的時候我們就講說為什麼台灣沒有這樣子因為其實這方方面面很多可是當裡面有提到是說政府為提供金源以及市場規模不大的時候這個是我們可以去深思的就是說我們怎麼樣能夠把餅做大然後以及我們怎麼樣能夠培養我們更好的人才能夠投入這一塊讓大家覺得說投入這一塊產業是有未來前景的部長你同意嗎"},{"start":370.366,"end":390.231,"text":"完全同意我想這個部分確實我們一直在加強當中所以當然台灣整個漫畫市場受到的影響有多重的因素啦當然但是就是說我們能夠怎麼樣做因為韓國也在做這個事情而且2027年我想我也拜託部長今天回去請同仁好好針對韓國現在的做法來去做一個研究當"},{"start":391.591,"end":416.124,"text":"十年前他們有這個K-pop他們有這個戲劇以及當現在他們已經要在第三波的這時候漫畫的時候我們除了我們自己的台劇華劇以外我們怎麼樣能夠更加強這一個部分是所以部長能夠針對這部分有一個比較具體的措施能夠再提供給我們教育文化委員會這邊委員來做參考好是的我會提供多久時間我想一個月的時間一定會提供一個月時間"},{"start":417.608,"end":431.233,"text":"部長再來既然剛有提到漫畫的重點在於是原創原創的精神很重要因為它就是一個IP的一個創造那現在也有討論原創沸沸揚揚就是iWIN的事件很多"},{"start":432.338,"end":457.227,"text":"人也在講是說二次元創作是不是違反兒少性剝削條例各國都覺得說有差異當然我們一定是保護兒童保護青少年絕對這個是沒有問題可是現在當日本漫畫家跟參議員也聲援台灣創作自由的時候我請教速發部NCC在討論這個I win的這個部分有沒有找我們文化部來開會"},{"start":458.169,"end":481.489,"text":"最近一次是衛福部的諮商會有找文化部那文化部的立場是什麼我想跟委員的立場基本上是相近的啦不要把我拖下水你的立場啦文化部的立場是什麼因為很重要到底是支持創作原創的這個精神還是像現在一樣包山包海什麼都先預防性下降"},{"start":482.261,"end":484.602,"text":"二、創作者的自由也必須要被保障。我想基本上"},{"start":500.131,"end":500.972,"text":"部長,你這樣說一分錢哪有說哪沒說"},{"start":530.686,"end":553.504,"text":"三二七今天有要再召開多方利害關係人會議那請教因為上一次有開會的創作者強調說沒有共識只有衛福部自行下結論那今天三二七又要在iWIN這邊又要開會文化部有沒有時候要代表出席有是不是能夠請文化部代表出席的時候也表達今天部長講的這個話我覺得"},{"start":556.328,"end":580.828,"text":"我自己身為兩個孩子的父親我想大家在座也都有小孩不管是男生女生其實我們兒少的保護大家都重要這個不分你我不分彼此不分黨派但另外一個部分創作者也很重要你不是說一槓子打翻一傳人所以我很強調什麼我很強調是說實體、色情該抓就抓甚至嚴懲重罰但是創作的部分你要保留創作的精神"},{"start":581.568,"end":596.648,"text":"不是畫的臉有點像這個小朋友那他就認定說他就是兒少男他就是犯法侵權這一點部長可以同意嗎是的我剛剛跟文化部的代表今天是不是下午的會議的時候也表達這樣的立場"},{"start":597.088,"end":613.093,"text":"是,會的,我想我們剛剛的發言包括說我說我支持集育我支持分級其實某種程度上就代表說我對創作希望給予它最大的空間因為文化部真的還是要站在創作者這一個部分最後在這一次有禮拜六的時候有這個獨立書店的這個訪視員的爭議當然文化部第一時間快刀斬亂馬可是"},{"start":622.216,"end":648.821,"text":"深圍很多人就講是說哇原來有書店訪試員這樣的一個工作好像是夢幻工作很多人在問說怎麼樣應徵有沒有然後呢也有在講是說實體書店跟這個線上書店我個人兩個都有我也喜歡逛書店我也會在這個大的網路書店上面來買書每個月七號每個月五號我都會買那一樣那這一個事件大家外界認為是說文化部是請了幾天是不是請錯了訪試員"},{"start":652.369,"end":667.822,"text":"未來怎麼樣避免?謝謝委員,我想委員也做過文化局長,應該有更清楚。是,跟您同期。對,我們所有政府的補助,在補助之後一定會有一個追蹤管考。希望能夠了解他拿了國家納稅人的錢,他的執行的狀況。那以實體書店補助來講的話,我們委託的就是獨立書店的協會。由獨立書店協會這個公法人來評。"},{"start":675.488,"end":691.413,"text":"與他認同的學者專家相關。學者專家有沒有再去他們的言行?他們所推薦的學者專家裡面就是包括你剛剛講的這位蔡先生所以基本上我們是死掉未及但是我覺得接受公法人"},{"start":691.633,"end":706.149,"text":"或公協會推薦學者專家作為他們自己接受補助的方式這其實本來就是一個比較社會參與公民參與的方式只是說這個獨立的個案是我們始料未及所以絕對不是請幾個地方"},{"start":708.872,"end":737.67,"text":"那未來怎麼樣避免呢?我想我也不希望產生寒蟬效應啦說因為這樣子所以我們對於所有的這個被推薦的這個訪視委員或相關的委員我們都好像進行了一個這個審查或者是這個這個這個查核的工作我覺得基本上但我們當然希望說這些訪視員他其實來是跟我們一起站在一起是可以鼓勵或是推廣獨立書店加強獨立書店的一個運作嘛是我們現在有多少訪視員?"},{"start":739.429,"end":762.078,"text":"每一年的狀況不大一樣因為他其實今年是二十位啦因為全國的獨立書店很多嘛你也不可能期待一個訪視員跑全部的書店所以他基本上是分區責任辦理也不是為了說這是什麼夢幻工作事實上就是一個出席費而已訪視員基本上幫我們去follow他拿到政府補助他的執行狀況寫成報告同時呢他也"},{"start":764.039,"end":780.523,"text":"那訪視員會不會每年做一個這個確認或是說他們的一個至少他們訪視的一個成效KPI當然會 以發生這樣的事情來講以發生這樣的事情來講未來獨立書店協會如果還要再推薦訪視員那恐怕我們就會更嚴謹的來考核了嘛好 是"},{"start":780.643,"end":780.903,"text":"主席韓宜漢"},{"start":809.517,"end":811.201,"text":"好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員"}]}}}}