{"id":150454,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150454","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d511352af2342d9262f9597c3f3f044368f8ba9b0039caa7a6e07d3bc095bcb0085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"09:58:00 - 10:12:03","影片長度":"00:14:03","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長報告「國軍無人機運用的現況及發展」，併請行政院國土安全辦公室列席，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":843,"end_time":"2024-03-27T10:12:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T09:58:00+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":263,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（9時57分）謝謝主席。我想請邱部長。"],["主席：部長，請。"],["邱部長國正：徐委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長好。我想先請問您幾個時事問題，對岸4月的時候要主辦西太平洋的海軍論壇，據目前瞭解，大概美國、澳洲等30國左右的海軍高層會參加。有日媒指出，這次論壇有個主題是關於預防無人機海上飛行時碰撞意外的架構，中共也訂定包含海上相遇相關的使用情況，還有無人機系統議題研究工作組。現在兩岸劍拔弩張，大家就很關心，在海上相遇的無人機碰撞意外部分，我們有沒有類似的機制？什麼時候訂定？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，防止意外的事件發生，防止擦槍走火，這是我們一直在努力的，對方有沒有在努力，我不能幫他答復，但是因為要做這個努力，所以空中的、海上的或者面對面的，怎麼樣來防制，這一定有納入我們平常研究跟訓練的範疇。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我們平常有研究跟訓練的範疇，那我們未來會去訂定比較明確的指引，或成立工作小組這樣子的形態嗎？"],["邱部長國正：因為基本上我們在防，而且防的方法最簡單講，我們在一個界地，在界線以內我們做我們的訓練，不會講說我們主動發起擦槍走火這個問題，但要是他做了以後，我們平常的應對，不就是一個訓練了嗎？"],["徐委員巧芯：部長，我們在談的是無人機部分，就是說我們今天如果在海上有無人機相撞，我們明確的指引是什麼？"],["邱部長國正：海上就看它的界線在哪裡嘛！我不是講了，我們是防衛作戰嘛！突然間到我們上空了，那就等於是侵犯我們，在海上有海上處理的方法，還不至於……"],["徐委員巧芯：目前對於這個方法有沒有訂定一個原則或準則？什麼時候會訂定？我問的是這個。"],["李司長世強：跟您報告一下，像現在艦船在海上不預期相遇，它中間有一個行為準則，這也是將近17年前在青島論壇訂定的。"],["徐委員巧芯：對，知道，無人機部分呢？"],["李司長世強：無人機這次訂定之後，相關的區域國家……"],["徐委員巧芯：這次是什麼時候訂定的？"],["李司長世強：他們在這次論壇才會去討論這件事情。"],["徐委員巧芯：那我方呢？我不關心他們，我關心我們呀！"],["李司長世強：當這些區域國家都遵守這個訂定的機制之後，我們自然就會加入這樣的機制。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，所以目前還沒有，但未來會考慮訂定，是不是這個意思？","另外就是，媒體有報導，我們潛艦的戰隊未來可能會升格成艦隊，也傳出在蘇澳、左營會規劃雙母港，請問一下，事情的情況是否為真？進度如何？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，目前沒有講說一定要成立戰隊或艦隊……"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有？瞭解。"],["邱部長國正：另外也不界定在哪個地方一定要設立什麼母港、這個港、那個港，我們只是講，有這個裝備一定要考量它將來不管是維保或者是存放位置，這些都要併入考量的，並沒有設定界線。"],["徐委員巧芯：好的，沒有一定要。那在蘇澳跟左營規劃雙母港的這個部分呢？"],["邱部長國正：各個港如果可能的，我們一樣都會納入，我不能講排除哪一個、要哪一個。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，瞭解了。部長，我要問的是，雖然跟你認識的時間並沒有很久，但是記得我第一次質詢你的時候問了什麼問題嗎？你有印象嗎？"],["邱部長國正：我只記得委員說「你不要緊張」，我在想我沒有緊張啊！我有什麼好緊張的？"],["徐委員巧芯：對，我覺得您應該要緊張一下。"],["邱部長國正：我沒有什麼好緊張的。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為我們今天關心的是，有沒有涉及到我們在憲兵211營當天的陳述有不實的問題。"],["邱部長國正：的確……"],["徐委員巧芯：我先問您，您在哪一個時間點才知道事情的全貌？"],["邱部長國正：我坦白講，因為後來外面一直在……它本身裡面又有傳言，講的可能有誤，所以我就開始追憲兵。"],["徐委員巧芯：不用在裡面講有傳言，我當天質詢的時候就跟您說了嘛！我們先看一下當天我的說法好不好？我們當天的詢答。我必須很嚴肅地說，在委員會裡面，所有的答詢，我們都希望你們是可以先瞭解狀況才做發言的。因為包含這麼多的媒體朋友、全國的國人都在看，訊息出去之後，到底是否為事實，當然我們的軍人也在看。","那時候的情況是這樣，這是3月7號立法院的公報，我問了這個211營士兵排班服勤的問題、站哨的問題，參謀長就說：報告，確實有負責軍械業務，那幾天部隊有在打靶。我們去看過當事人近3個月勤務派遣部分，他有符合國軍的警衛教範，一天最多3班哨。","我進一步問這個一天3班哨的部分，是站幾個小時、歇幾個小時，所以我就問這幾個月來都是站二歇六嗎？參謀長回答說：是的，我們看了他3個月以來的勤務狀況。我當即就回復說，那這樣非常有趣，因為我跟你們要的報表，就是這一張，這是一個平均的數字，都非常地漂亮，沒有問題，可是實際上我們去問了很多的憲兵同仁，他們都說其實沒有像這麼好的，確實人力有可能不足，勤務也比較操勞，所以這個出勤統計表跟實際面臨到軍人的情況，我當即就說，我覺得還需要去做調查。請問一下，為什麼會在答詢的過程當中提到「站二歇六」，而且是確認過他3個月的勤務狀況，但後續卻發現幾件事情，第一個，有媒體取得所謂古男生前的哨表，如果他們報導有不對，等一下你們可以做更正。上面談到說，不只是沒有站二歇六，甚至有站二歇二的狀況，再加上他的附加哨，一天是6班哨，其中4次是站二歇一。再加上除了他以外，還有很多的，包含2月27號魏姓二兵5班哨，陳姓女下士連6班歇二，然後3月5號歇兩四班哨，3月15號歇四。也接獲多名211的憲兵指說，有兩份哨表，一份是應付督導的，一份是真實站哨的情況。","我想多給你們一些時間，可不可以把過程說明清楚、完整？今天講完是這樣，出去不希望又有其他的版本，或是其他的國軍弟兄反映我們在立法院陳述的是不實的。"],["邱部長國正：可以啊！我現在這樣好不好？原則上，我們已經跟憲兵都做交代，我也特別強調，我們現在人員該要做查處，但不要把責任推給他，要查源頭……"],["徐委員巧芯：我同意。"],["邱部長國正：為什麼當初你這樣排，但你給我回報的是另外的答案？這個方法不好，所以我們全面檢討，至於後面檢討，不管人員替換也好，代理也好，我也跟他們強調一點，不要再有節外生枝、後遺症出來，現在細部的工作，我就請參謀長跟委員做簡單說明。"],["徐委員巧芯：做一下說明，好不好？給你們一點時間。"],["呂參謀長正芳：委員好！我是憲兵參謀長，首先感謝委員對這個事件的指導，先跟委員報告，當時在提供資料的時候，確實因為我們沒有審慎、仔細地去瞭解整個衛哨全般的實況，造成在資料的提供上與訊息的提供上跟實況有些落差，在此先跟委員表達歉意！","經過我們最近全般檢視該營所有勤務人力的調配與休假狀況，確實有同仁站二歇二及站二歇四的狀況發生，目前我們也按照主官、參謀與士官三個軸線深刻來檢討疏職人員相關應該要究責的責任。","在後續的部分，我們區分兩個部分，第一個部分，針對衛哨勤務派遣的部分，我們從上週起派遣由憲兵202指揮部副指揮官以上以及我們憲指部副參、督察、副主任等高階幹部輪流到211營駐點，主要是針對勤務哨表的稽核，讓所有武裝哨都能夠確實達到站二歇六的頻次；第二個部分就是在人力補充的方面，未來我們要去減緩整個勤務的繁重及壓力，我們區分兩個主軸，第一個部分就是我們對全憲兵的同仁，重點在北部地區及憲兵第202指揮部，我們去調查有意願到211營服務的同仁，目前我們有意願的有26個，我們也分別陸陸續續的在輔導與訓練，可以立即來提升它的現有人力，從67.8%到72.2%，後續我們會逐月逐次在4、5、6月三個月份除了持續去宣導有意願的人員之外，我們也配合後續兵源逐次補充，逐次補充的主要目的是避免今年我們大批的補，明年大批的退，又造成勤務的罅隙。以上是我的報告。"],["徐委員巧芯：瞭解，這個投訴人講，為了要站二歇六，你們有把在休假的人都叫回來，問一下，有沒有這件事情？"],["呂參謀長正芳：報告委員，這個部分，我們現在也在調查中，我們整個調查的情形都會後續在我們整個調查報告中，把所有的事情都還原。"],["徐委員巧芯：什麼時候會有調查報告？"],["呂參謀長正芳：報告委員，我們儘速把調查報告完成。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。主席，我希望可以再給我1分鐘時間，因為我讓他們做比較長的回復喔！","部長，我最後想要跟您談一下，這麼多的國軍弟兄，他們這麼的年輕，來到我們軍中，都是希望他們能夠保家衛國，都是希望對我們國家有貢獻，我們的長官，我覺得也應該給予他們同樣的好的文化，要讓他們感受到我們軍中的長官是能夠負責任的。","我最近一直在思考，您剛剛談到，您只記得我跟您質詢的時候叫你不要緊張，可是我覺得重點在於這個事件社會都非常的關注，後續因為您們在這裡的錯誤說法，我想了很久，或許211的其他憲兵同仁可能兩種情況，第一種是這個古姓憲兵同袍的親友，他覺得不對，他碰到的情況根本不是你們所說的這樣，所以第一種情況他希望討公道，希望真相大白，這個部分只有透過完整調查報告的公開，才能讓大家理解；第二個是警訊，就是211營其他站的人，他們有站二歇二的情況，而且我看了一下，還不少，他們可能看到這整個答詢，他們覺得為什麼你們說都是站二歇六，可是我們平常時的生活不是這樣，為什麼部長、為什麼參謀長要這樣講？我們很辛苦，我們很累，你們都沒有看到、你們都沒有感受到！所以他們才把事情提供給記者、媒體，出來之後，因為當天這樣的答詢，反而變成一個反作用力，讓全國人民都覺得對於國軍高層是有一點不信任的。這兩個部分我覺得都很重要，對於逝去的人，要還他公道、要給他真相，對於現在還在的人，我們在勤務上面要給他足夠的衡平。部長，能不能夠承諾，有什麼樣的改善方式，給大家一個清楚的承諾，好不好？"],["主席：部長，簡要回答。"],["邱部長國正：給我一點時間。我一直很關切，我也很感激，並沒有抗拒這種用意，我跟同仁講，我們照顧官兵，這不是什麼任務，就我們應該要做的，照顧官兵兩個，第一個，他的權益我們不要讓他受損；第二個，他的身心我們不要讓他受傷，他的權益受損包含他如果要申訴的話，這種申訴管道不能夠堵他，不能夠不處理，因為這像水管一樣，你不能堵，要讓它通，所以目前這一方面可能做得有點落差，造成大家誤會，但我要跟大家說明，我們絕對不會不讓任何人講話，把這個問題遮蓋掉，這是第一個。","第二個，我們假如有什麼問題出來了以後，我們是全面檢討的，所以檢討的方向一定是什麼？第一個，依法來辦理；第二個，我們一定從內部開始檢討，沒有推托說他個人的問題，沒有！從我們內部的管理問題，工作壓力會不會太大或者我們管教方面有什麼問題，另外也附帶他的感情、債務、家庭，他跟外界交友的狀況，這一步一步來，所以委員一講以後，一個基本的原則，查到我們瞭解……"],["徐委員巧芯：這個我們都理解……"],["邱部長國正：並沒有定論……"],["徐委員巧芯：後續是不是我們……"],["主席：我相信這個題目，我們在委員會還會再討論，謝謝……"],["徐委員巧芯：對，因為時間的關係，好不好？最後，我還是要跟主席報告，就是我還是要強調，回到剛剛那一張公報，在我們委員會裡面的答詢，你們應該要先瞭解事情全貌之後再回來回答，如果不清楚的話，就回答不清楚，要再回去瞭解，而不是提供一個錯誤的資訊，好嗎？謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員。部長、各位請回，謝謝。","接下來進行詢答的委員是林楚茵委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":150,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-9","speakers":["王定宇","黃仁","羅美玲","徐巧芯","林楚茵","沈伯洋","洪申翰","陳永康","陳冠廷","馬文君","林德福","羅智強","鍾佳濱","賴士葆","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","張啓楷","王鴻薇"],"page_start":95,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132001_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告「國軍無人機運用的現況及發展」，併請行政院國土安全辦公室列席，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1132001_00016"}},"transcript":{"id":"150454","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150454","tool":"pyannote","id":"150454-pyannote"},"job_id":"igvkmYoMEMvUSwTO","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"text\": \"我坦白講因為後來外面一直在他本身裡面又有傳言講可能有誤所以我就開始追憲兵不用在裡面講有傳言我當天質詢的時候就跟您說了嘛對我們先看一下當天我的說法好不好我們當天的詢答\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 245.669, \"end\": 245.889, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"坦\", \"start\": 245.889, \"end\": 246.009, \"score\": 0.522}, {\"word\": \"白\", \"start\": 246.009, \"end\": 246.73, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 246.73, \"end\": 246.83, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 246.83, \"end\": 247.451, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 247.451, \"end\": 247.591, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 247.591, \"end\": 247.731, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 247.731, \"end\": 247.791, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 247.791, \"end\": 247.831, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 247.831, \"end\": 248.252, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 248.252, \"end\": 248.572, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": 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\"當\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 259.102, \"end\": 259.322, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 259.322, \"end\": 259.463, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 259.463, \"end\": 259.883, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 259.883, \"end\": 260.003, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 260.003, \"end\": 260.103, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 260.103, \"end\": 260.203, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 260.203, \"end\": 260.544, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 260.544, \"end\": 260.724, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 260.724, \"end\": 260.884, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 260.884, \"end\": 261.324, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 261.324, \"end\": 261.344, \"score\": 0.088}]}, {\"start\": 262.586, \"end\": 278.788, \"text\": \"我必須很嚴肅的說在委員會裡面所有的答詢我們都希望你們是可以先了解狀況才做發言因為包含這麼多的媒體朋友全國的國人都在看那訊息出去之後那到底是否為事實那當然我們的軍人也在看\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 262.586, \"end\": 262.886, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 262.886, \"end\": 263.127, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 263.127, \"end\": 263.647, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"肅\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 263.647, \"end\": 264.028, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 264.028, \"end\": 264.268, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 264.268, \"end\": 264.909, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 264.909, \"end\": 265.109, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 265.109, \"end\": 265.27, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 265.27, \"end\": 265.39, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 265.39, \"end\": 265.53, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"答\", 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 272.159, \"end\": 272.48, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 272.48, \"end\": 272.66, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 272.66, \"end\": 272.82, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 272.82, \"end\": 273.04, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 273.04, \"end\": 273.561, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 273.561, \"end\": 273.902, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 273.902, \"end\": 274.102, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 274.102, \"end\": 274.282, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 274.282, \"end\": 274.462, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 274.462, \"end\": 274.643, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 274.643, \"end\": 275.083, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 275.083, \"end\": 275.243, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 275.243, \"end\": 275.424, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 275.424, \"end\": 275.584, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 275.584, \"end\": 275.784, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 275.784, \"end\": 276.245, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 276.245, \"end\": 277.046, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 277.046, \"end\": 277.447, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 277.447, \"end\": 277.647, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 277.647, \"end\": 277.907, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 277.907, \"end\": 278.228, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 278.228, \"end\": 278.388, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 278.388, \"end\": 278.528, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 278.528, \"end\": 278.768, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 278.768, \"end\": 278.788, \"score\": 0.895}]}, {\"start\": 279.289, \"end\": 285.378, \"text\": \"那時候的情況是這樣,3月7號的立法院的公報,我問了這個211營士兵牌班扶擒的問題,戰哨的問題那呢,這個參謀長就說呢,報告確實有負責軍械業務,那幾天部隊有在打靶\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 279.289, \"end\": 279.55, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 279.55, \"end\": 279.71, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 279.71, \"end\": 279.83, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 279.83, \"end\": 280.17, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 280.17, \"end\": 280.972, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 280.972, \"end\": 281.613, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 281.613, \"end\": 281.773, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 281.773, \"end\": 281.953, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 281.953, \"end\": 282.113, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"院\", 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284.217, \"end\": 284.257, \"score\": 0.446}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"哨\", \"start\": 284.257, \"end\": 284.377, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 284.377, \"end\": 284.397, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 284.397, \"end\": 284.437, \"score\": 0.225}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 284.437, \"end\": 284.577, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"謀\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 284.577, \"end\": 284.657, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 284.657, \"end\": 284.737, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 284.737, \"end\": 284.797, \"score\": 0.576}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 284.797, \"end\": 285.018, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 285.018, \"end\": 285.038, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"械\", \"start\": 285.038, \"end\": 285.158, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 285.158, \"end\": 285.178, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 285.178, \"end\": 285.198, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 285.198, \"end\": 285.298, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"隊\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 285.298, \"end\": 285.318, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 285.318, \"end\": 285.358, \"score\": 0.197}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 285.358, \"end\": 285.378, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"靶\"}]}, {\"start\": 295.293, \"end\": 312.964, \"text\": \"我們去看過當事人近三個月的勤務派遣部分：他有符合國軍的警衛教範一天最多三班少那我進一步問這個所謂一天三班少的部分那是站幾個小時 歇幾個小時所以我就問說那這幾個月來都是站二歇六嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 295.293, \"end\": 295.513, \"score\": 0.563}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 295.513, 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\"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"：\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 299.055, \"end\": 299.195, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 299.195, \"end\": 299.416, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"符\", \"start\": 299.416, \"end\": 299.556, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 299.556, \"end\": 300.236, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 300.236, \"end\": 301.297, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"警\", \"start\": 301.297, \"end\": 301.737, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 301.737, \"end\": 302.237, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 302.237, \"end\": 302.377, \"score\": 0.516}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 302.377, \"end\": 302.597, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 302.597, \"end\": 302.758, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 302.758, \"end\": 302.978, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 302.978, \"end\": 303.198, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 303.198, \"end\": 303.498, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 303.498, \"end\": 304.038, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 304.038, \"end\": 304.198, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 304.198, \"end\": 304.519, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 304.519, \"end\": 304.659, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 304.659, \"end\": 305.359, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 305.359, \"end\": 305.599, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 305.599, \"end\": 305.699, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 305.699, \"end\": 306.2, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 306.2, \"end\": 306.42, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 306.42, \"end\": 306.64, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 306.64, \"end\": 306.84, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 306.84, \"end\": 307.02, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 307.02, \"end\": 307.24, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 307.24, \"end\": 307.6, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 307.6, \"end\": 307.761, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 307.761, \"end\": 308.121, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 308.121, \"end\": 308.601, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 308.601, \"end\": 309.061, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"歇\", \"start\": 309.061, \"end\": 309.522, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 309.522, \"end\": 310.302, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 310.302, \"end\": 310.442, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 310.442, \"end\": 310.462, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 310.462, \"end\": 310.582, 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\"那參謀長回答說:「是的,我們看了他三個月以來的勤務狀況,我當即就回復說,那這樣非常有趣喔,因為我跟你們要的報表,就這張,這是一個平均的數字喔,都非常的漂亮,沒有問題,可是實際上我們去問了很多的憲兵同仁,那他們都說其實沒有像這麼好的,就確實人力也可能不足,勤務也比較操勞,\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 313.704, \"end\": 314.365, \"score\": 0.617}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"謀\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 314.365, \"end\": 314.545, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 314.545, \"end\": 315.025, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \":\"}, {\"word\": \"「\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 315.025, \"end\": 315.246, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 315.246, \"end\": 315.666, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 315.666, \"end\": 315.986, \"score\": 0.612}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 315.986, \"end\": 316.166, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 316.166, \"end\": 316.327, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 316.327, \"end\": 316.587, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"三\", 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\"到\", \"start\": 807.497, \"end\": 807.597, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 807.597, \"end\": 807.677, \"score\": 0.332}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 807.677, \"end\": 807.857, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"章\", \"start\": 807.857, \"end\": 807.877, \"score\": 0.034}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 823.379, \"end\": 823.399, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"巧\", \"start\": 823.399, \"end\": 823.539, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"芯\", \"start\": 823.539, \"end\": 824.04, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 824.04, \"end\": 824.06, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,449 --> 00:00:05,232\n謝謝主席我想請這個邱部長來部長請徐委員好部長好我想先請問您幾個時事問題喔就是呢對岸4月的時候要主辦西太平洋的海軍論壇那據目前的了解大概美國澳洲等30國左右的海軍高層會參加那\n\n2\n00:00:29,767 --> 00:00:56,985\n有日媒指出這次的論壇它有一個主題是關於呢預防無人機海上飛行時碰撞意外的架構那中共他們就也訂定包含是海上相遇相關的使用情況還有呢無人機系統議題研究工作組那現在兩岸劍拔弩張大家就很關心說在海上相遇的這個無人機碰撞意外部分我們有沒有類似的機制什麼時候訂定\n\n3\n00:00:58,148 --> 00:01:04,410\n所以我們平常有研究跟訓練的範疇那我們未來會去訂定比較明確的指引或是有成立工作小組這樣子的一個心態嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:27,392 --> 00:01:52,853\n我們基本上我們在防而且防的方法最簡單講我們在一個界定在界限以內我們做我們的訓練那不會講說我們主動來發起這個災難走火這個問題但是他要做了以後那我們平常的應對是那個無人機部分部長我們是在談的是無人機部分就是說我們今天如果在海上有無人機相撞的時候我們的明確的指引是什麼\n\n5\n00:01:53,848 --> 00:01:54,288\n我們說這個方法有沒有訂定一個原則或準則目前?\n\n6\n00:02:12,336 --> 00:02:12,616\n無人機運用的現況及發展\n\n7\n00:02:34,502 --> 00:02:57,199\n我們到時候當這些國家區域國家都遵守了這個訂定的機制之後我們自然就會加入這樣所以目前還沒有到未來會考慮訂定嗎是這個意思那另外就是媒體有報導呢我們在潛艦的戰隊未來可能會升格成艦隊也傳出說在蘇澳左營會規劃雙母港請問一下事情的這個情況那是否為真那進度如何\n\n8\n00:02:57,901 --> 00:03:27,239\n我跟委員報告目前沒有講說一定要成立實體艦隊或艦隊另外也不界定在哪個地方要設立什麼母港這個港那個港我們只要講說有這個裝備一定要考量它將來不管維保或者存放位置這都併入考量的沒有設定性沒有一定要那在那個蘇澳跟左營規劃雙母港這個部分呢我們一樣嘛就各個港如果可能的我們都有大陸嘛我不能講在排除哪一個要哪一個\n\n9\n00:03:28,012 --> 00:03:28,793\n我只記得委員你不要緊張我想我們有緊張\n\n10\n00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:47,391\n您在哪一個時間點才知道事情的全貌的?\n\n11\n00:04:05,669 --> 00:04:21,344\n我坦白講因為後來外面一直在他本身裡面又有傳言講可能有誤所以我就開始追憲兵不用在裡面講有傳言我當天質詢的時候就跟您說了嘛對我們先看一下當天我的說法好不好我們當天的詢答\n\n12\n00:04:22,586 --> 00:04:38,788\n我必須很嚴肅的說在委員會裡面所有的答詢我們都希望你們是可以先了解狀況才做發言因為包含這麼多的媒體朋友全國的國人都在看那訊息出去之後那到底是否為事實那當然我們的軍人也在看\n\n13\n00:04:39,289 --> 00:04:45,378\n那時候的情況是這樣,3月7號的立法院的公報,我問了這個211營士兵牌班扶擒的問題,戰哨的問題那呢,這個參謀長就說呢,報告確實有負責軍械業務,那幾天部隊有在打靶\n\n14\n00:04:55,293 --> 00:05:12,964\n我們去看過當事人近三個月的勤務派遣部分：他有符合國軍的警衛教範一天最多三班少那我進一步問這個所謂一天三班少的部分那是站幾個小時歇幾個小時所以我就問說那這幾個月來都是站二歇六嗎\n\n15\n00:05:13,704 --> 00:05:38,167\n那參謀長回答說:「是的,我們看了他三個月以來的勤務狀況,我當即就回復說,那這樣非常有趣喔,因為我跟你們要的報表,就這張,這是一個平均的數字喔,都非常的漂亮,沒有問題,可是實際上我們去問了很多的憲兵同仁,那他們都說其實沒有像這麼好的,就確實人力也可能不足,勤務也比較操勞,\n\n16\n00:05:39,068 --> 00:05:55,436\n所以這個初情統計表跟實際面臨到軍人的情況我當即就說我覺得還需要去做調查那請問一下為什麼會在打詢的過程當中提到了是戰二邪六而且是確認過他三個月的情誤狀況但後續的時候發現幾件事情第一個\n\n17\n00:06:00,775 --> 00:06:16,506\n這個由媒體取得所謂古南生前的哨表如果他們報導有不對等一下你們可以做更正喔就談到說不只是沒有戰二卸六甚至是有戰二卸二的狀況再加上他的附加哨一天是六班哨其中四次是戰二卸一\n\n18\n00:06:18,027 --> 00:06:32,362\n那再加上除了他以外還有很多的包含2月27號魏姓二兵五班少陳姓女下士連六班歇二然後3月5號歇兩四班少3月15號歇四那也接獲了多名的211的這個憲兵指說\n\n19\n00:06:35,265 --> 00:06:55,425\n有兩份的哨表一份是應付督導的一份是真實戰哨情況我想多給你們一點時間可不可以把過程說明的清楚完整今天講完是這樣出去不希望又有其他的版本或是我們其他的國軍弟兄反應說我們在立法院陳述的是不實的\n\n20\n00:06:56,783 --> 00:07:17,000\n可以啊,我要這樣好不好,我的原則上我們已經跟憲民都做交代,我也特別強調我們家人員該要做一個查處的,但不想把責任推給他,我的原頭為什麼要當初你這樣排,但你給我回報的是例外的答案,這是一個方法不好,所以我們全面檢討。\n\n21\n00:07:18,061 --> 00:07:19,602\n來做一下說明好不好給你們一點時間\n\n22\n00:07:32,970 --> 00:08:02,089\n是,委員好,我是憲兵創工長首先感謝委員對這個事件的一個指導那先跟委員報告,因為當時在提供資料的時候那確實因為我們沒有審慎跟仔細的去了解整個一個衛哨那個全班的實況那造成在資料的提供上跟訊息的提供上那跟實況有所落差那在此先跟委員表達歉意那經過我們最近的全班檢視該營的所有的勤務、人力的調配跟休假的狀況\n\n23\n00:08:03,030 --> 00:08:28,364\n那確實有發生有同仁佔兩歇兩跟佔兩歇四的一個狀況發生那目前我們也按照主觀參謀跟事觀三個軸線來深刻來檢討疏責人員的相關應該要的救責的責任那在後續的部分我們區分兩個部分第一個部分我們針對衛少全部派遣的部分那我們從上週起我們\n\n24\n00:08:30,151 --> 00:08:53,324\n派遣由憲兵202指揮部副指揮官以上以及我們縣指部副參督察副主任等高階的幹部輪流到兩遙營去駐點主要是針對勤務哨表的集合讓他能夠確實在所有的武裝哨都能夠達到佔兩卸六的一個評次那第二個部分就是在人力補充的方面那為了我們去減緩整個勤務的一個繁重跟壓力\n\n25\n00:08:54,284 --> 00:09:18,097\n我們區分兩個主軸第一個部分就是我們對全憲兵的同仁那至重點在北部第7及憲兵第202指揮部我們去調查有意願到兩邀引進服務的同仁那目前我們有意願的具有26個那我們也分別在陸陸續續的在輔導跟訓練那可以立即來提供提升他現有的一個能力從67.8到72.2那後續我們\n\n26\n00:09:22,139 --> 00:09:22,679\n以上是我的報告\n\n27\n00:09:44,505 --> 00:09:50,067\n這部分我們現在也在調查中那我們整個這個調查的情形都會後續在我們的整個調查報告中那把所有的事情都把它還原什麼時候會有調查報告?\n\n28\n00:10:08,922 --> 00:10:32,300\n主席我希望可以再給我一分鐘時間因為我讓他們做比較長的回覆部長我最後想要跟您談一下就是說這麼多的國軍弟兄他們這麼的年輕然後來到我們軍中都是希望說他們能夠保家衛國都是對我們國家希望有貢獻那我們的長官我覺得也應該\n\n29\n00:10:33,601 --> 00:10:34,001\n徐巧芯：徐巧芯\n\n30\n00:10:52,569 --> 00:11:21,798\n那後續因為您們的在這裡的錯誤的說法導致於我想了很久或許211的其他憲兵的同仁他可能兩種情況第一種是這個古姓憲兵的同袍他的親友他覺得不對啊他碰到的情況根本不是你們所說的這樣所以他第一種情況他希望討公道希望真相大白這個部分只有透過完整的調查報告的公開才能讓大家理解\n\n31\n00:11:22,378 --> 00:11:48,032\n第二是警訊,就是2110其他站的人﹖他們有站兩歇兩的情況﹖而且我看了一下還不少﹖他們可能看到這整個答詢﹖他們覺得為什麼你們說都是站二歇六﹖可是我們平常時的生活不是這樣﹖為什麼部長,為什麼參謀長你們要這樣講﹖我們很辛苦,我們很累﹖你們都沒有看到,你們都沒有感受到﹖所以他們才把事情提供給記者媒體﹖\n\n32\n00:11:48,832 --> 00:11:49,573\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n33\n00:12:10,570 --> 00:12:31,527\n我們要在勤務上面有足夠的衡評部長能不能夠承諾有什麼樣的一個改善方式給大家一個清楚的承諾好不好部長請稍微給我一點時間我一直很關切我一直很感激並沒有什麼抗拒的這種用意我跟同仁講我們只照顧官兵這不是一個什麼任務就我們應該要做的\n\n34\n00:12:33,849 --> 00:12:57,137\n照顧官兵兩個第一個他權益我們不要讓他受損第二個他身心不要給他受傷他權益受損就包含他如果要申訴的話你這個申訴管道不能夠堵他不能夠不處理喔因為這跟水管一樣你不能堵也要讓他通所以目前這一方面可能做有點落差造成他誤會但我要跟大家說明講說我們絕對不會去不知道這個人講話把這個問題遮蓋掉\n\n35\n00:13:00,018 --> 00:13:11,085\n第一,我們在有什麼問題出來了以後,我們有全面檢討的。所以檢討的方向一定是,第一,依法來辦理。第二,我們一直從內部開始檢討,沒有講推脫愛,他個人的問題,沒有愛。內部我們管理問題,工作壓力會不會太大,或者我們管教方面有什麼問題,還有例外也附帶的。他的感情,他債務,他家庭,他跟外界交友狀況,這一步一步來。\n\n36\n00:13:26,215 --> 00:13:27,877\n最後我還是要跟主席報告因為我們回到剛剛那一章\n\n37\n00:13:43,379 --> 00:13:44,060\n徐巧芯委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n449\t5232\t謝謝主席我想請這個邱部長來部長請徐委員好部長好我想先請問您幾個時事問題喔就是呢對岸4月的時候要主辦西太平洋的海軍論壇那據目前的了解大概美國澳洲等30國左右的海軍高層會參加那\n29767\t56985\t有日媒指出這次的論壇它有一個主題是關於呢預防無人機海上飛行時碰撞意外的架構那中共他們就也訂定包含是海上相遇相關的使用情況還有呢無人機系統議題研究工作組那現在兩岸劍拔弩張大家就很關心說在海上相遇的這個無人機碰撞意外部分我們有沒有類似的機制什麼時候訂定\n58148\t64410\t所以我們平常有研究跟訓練的範疇那我們未來會去訂定比較明確的指引或是有成立工作小組這樣子的一個心態嗎?\n87392\t112853\t我們基本上我們在防而且防的方法最簡單講我們在一個界定在界限以內我們做我們的訓練那不會講說我們主動來發起這個災難走火這個問題但是他要做了以後那我們平常的應對是那個無人機部分部長我們是在談的是無人機部分就是說我們今天如果在海上有無人機相撞的時候我們的明確的指引是什麼\n113848\t114288\t我們說這個方法有沒有訂定一個原則或準則目前?\n132336\t132616\t無人機運用的現況及發展\n154502\t177199\t我們到時候當這些國家區域國家都遵守了這個訂定的機制之後我們自然就會加入這樣所以目前還沒有到未來會考慮訂定嗎是這個意思那另外就是媒體有報導呢我們在潛艦的戰隊未來可能會升格成艦隊也傳出說在蘇澳左營會規劃雙母港請問一下事情的這個情況那是否為真那進度如何\n177901\t207239\t我跟委員報告目前沒有講說一定要成立實體艦隊或艦隊另外也不界定在哪個地方要設立什麼母港這個港那個港我們只要講說有這個裝備一定要考量它將來不管維保或者存放位置這都併入考量的沒有設定性沒有一定要那在那個蘇澳跟左營規劃雙母港這個部分呢我們一樣嘛就各個港如果可能的我們都有大陸嘛我不能講在排除哪一個要哪一個\n208012\t208793\t我只記得委員你不要緊張我想我們有緊張\n225930\t227391\t您在哪一個時間點才知道事情的全貌的?\n245669\t261344\t我坦白講因為後來外面一直在他本身裡面又有傳言講可能有誤所以我就開始追憲兵不用在裡面講有傳言我當天質詢的時候就跟您說了嘛對我們先看一下當天我的說法好不好我們當天的詢答\n262586\t278788\t我必須很嚴肅的說在委員會裡面所有的答詢我們都希望你們是可以先了解狀況才做發言因為包含這麼多的媒體朋友全國的國人都在看那訊息出去之後那到底是否為事實那當然我們的軍人也在看\n279289\t285378\t那時候的情況是這樣,3月7號的立法院的公報,我問了這個211營士兵牌班扶擒的問題,戰哨的問題那呢,這個參謀長就說呢,報告確實有負責軍械業務,那幾天部隊有在打靶\n295293\t312964\t我們去看過當事人近三個月的勤務派遣部分：他有符合國軍的警衛教範一天最多三班少那我進一步問這個所謂一天三班少的部分那是站幾個小時 歇幾個小時所以我就問說那這幾個月來都是站二歇六嗎\n313704\t338167\t那參謀長回答說:「是的,我們看了他三個月以來的勤務狀況,我當即就回復說,那這樣非常有趣喔,因為我跟你們要的報表,就這張,這是一個平均的數字喔,都非常的漂亮,沒有問題,可是實際上我們去問了很多的憲兵同仁,那他們都說其實沒有像這麼好的,就確實人力也可能不足,勤務也比較操勞,\n339068\t355436\t所以這個初情統計表跟實際面臨到軍人的情況我當即就說我覺得還需要去做調查那請問一下為什麼會在打詢的過程當中提到了是戰二邪六而且是確認過他三個月的情誤狀況但後續的時候發現幾件事情第一個\n360775\t376506\t這個由媒體取得所謂古南生前的哨表如果他們報導有不對等一下你們可以做更正喔就談到說不只是沒有戰二卸六甚至是有戰二卸二的狀況再加上他的附加哨一天是六班哨其中四次是戰二卸一\n378027\t392362\t那再加上除了他以外還有很多的包含2月27號魏姓二兵五班少陳姓女下士連六班歇二然後3月5號歇兩四班少3月15號歇四那也接獲了多名的211的這個憲兵指說\n395265\t415425\t有兩份的哨表一份是應付督導的一份是真實戰哨情況我想多給你們一點時間可不可以把過程說明的清楚完整今天講完是這樣出去不希望又有其他的版本或是我們其他的國軍弟兄反應說我們在立法院陳述的是不實的\n416783\t437000\t可以啊,我要這樣好不好,我的原則上我們已經跟憲民都做交代,我也特別強調我們家人員該要做一個查處的,但不想把責任推給他,我的原頭為什麼要當初你這樣排,但你給我回報的是例外的答案,這是一個方法不好,所以我們全面檢討。\n438061\t439602\t來做一下說明好不好 給你們一點時間\n452970\t482089\t是,委員好,我是憲兵創工長首先感謝委員對這個事件的一個指導那先跟委員報告,因為當時在提供資料的時候那確實因為我們沒有審慎跟仔細的去了解整個一個衛哨那個全班的實況那造成在資料的提供上跟訊息的提供上那跟實況有所落差那在此先跟委員表達歉意那經過我們最近的全班檢視該營的所有的勤務、人力的調配跟休假的狀況\n483030\t508364\t那確實有發生有同仁佔兩歇兩跟佔兩歇四的一個狀況發生那目前我們也按照主觀參謀跟事觀三個軸線來深刻來檢討疏責人員的相關應該要的救責的責任那在後續的部分我們區分兩個部分第一個部分我們針對衛少全部派遣的部分那我們從上週起我們\n510151\t533324\t派遣由憲兵202指揮部副指揮官以上以及我們縣指部副參督察副主任等高階的幹部輪流到兩遙營去駐點主要是針對勤務哨表的集合讓他能夠確實在所有的武裝哨都能夠達到佔兩卸六的一個評次那第二個部分就是在人力補充的方面那為了我們去減緩整個勤務的一個繁重跟壓力\n534284\t558097\t我們區分兩個主軸第一個部分就是我們對全憲兵的同仁那至重點在北部第7及憲兵第202指揮部我們去調查有意願到兩邀引進服務的同仁那目前我們有意願的具有26個那我們也分別在陸陸續續的在輔導跟訓練那可以立即來提供提升他現有的一個能力從67.8到72.2那後續我們\n562139\t562679\t以上是我的報告\n584505\t590067\t這部分我們現在也在調查中 那我們整個這個調查的情形都會後續在我們的整個調查報告中 那把所有的事情都把它還原什麼時候會有調查報告?\n608922\t632300\t主席我希望可以再給我一分鐘時間因為我讓他們做比較長的回覆部長我最後想要跟您談一下就是說這麼多的國軍弟兄他們這麼的年輕然後來到我們軍中都是希望說他們能夠保家衛國都是對我們國家希望有貢獻那我們的長官我覺得也應該\n633601\t634001\t徐巧芯：徐巧芯\n652569\t681798\t那後續因為您們的在這裡的錯誤的說法導致於我想了很久或許211的其他憲兵的同仁他可能兩種情況第一種是這個古姓憲兵的同袍他的親友他覺得不對啊他碰到的情況根本不是你們所說的這樣所以他第一種情況他希望討公道希望真相大白這個部分只有透過完整的調查報告的公開才能讓大家理解\n682378\t708032\t第二是警訊,就是2110其他站的人﹖他們有站兩歇兩的情況﹖而且我看了一下還不少﹖他們可能看到這整個答詢﹖他們覺得為什麼你們說都是站二歇六﹖可是我們平常時的生活不是這樣﹖為什麼部長,為什麼參謀長你們要這樣講﹖我們很辛苦,我們很累﹖你們都沒有看到,你們都沒有感受到﹖所以他們才把事情提供給記者媒體﹖\n708832\t709573\t徐巧芯徐巧芯\n730570\t751527\t我們要在勤務上面有足夠的衡評部長能不能夠承諾有什麼樣的一個改善方式給大家一個清楚的承諾好不好部長請稍微給我一點時間我一直很關切我一直很感激並沒有什麼抗拒的這種用意我跟同仁講我們只照顧官兵這不是一個什麼任務就我們應該要做的\n753849\t777137\t照顧官兵兩個第一個他權益我們不要讓他受損第二個他身心不要給他受傷他權益受損就包含他如果要申訴的話你這個申訴管道不能夠堵他不能夠不處理喔因為這跟水管一樣你不能堵也要讓他通所以目前這一方面可能做有點落差造成他誤會但我要跟大家說明講說我們絕對不會去不知道這個人講話把這個問題遮蓋掉\n780018\t791085\t第一,我們在有什麼問題出來了以後,我們有全面檢討的。所以檢討的方向一定是,第一,依法來辦理。第二,我們一直從內部開始檢討,沒有講推脫愛,他個人的問題,沒有愛。內部我們管理問題,工作壓力會不會太大,或者我們管教方面有什麼問題,還有例外也附帶的。他的感情,他債務,他家庭,他跟外界交友狀況,這一步一步來。\n806215\t807877\t最後我還是要跟主席報告因為我們回到剛剛那一章\n823379\t824060\t徐巧芯委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想請這個邱部長來部長請徐委員好部長好我想先請問您幾個時事問題喔就是呢對岸4月的時候要主辦西太平洋的海軍論壇那據目前的了解大概美國澳洲等30國左右的海軍高層會參加那\n有日媒指出這次的論壇它有一個主題是關於呢預防無人機海上飛行時碰撞意外的架構那中共他們就也訂定包含是海上相遇相關的使用情況還有呢無人機系統議題研究工作組那現在兩岸劍拔弩張大家就很關心說在海上相遇的這個無人機碰撞意外部分我們有沒有類似的機制什麼時候訂定\n所以我們平常有研究跟訓練的範疇那我們未來會去訂定比較明確的指引或是有成立工作小組這樣子的一個心態嗎?\n我們基本上我們在防而且防的方法最簡單講我們在一個界定在界限以內我們做我們的訓練那不會講說我們主動來發起這個災難走火這個問題但是他要做了以後那我們平常的應對是那個無人機部分部長我們是在談的是無人機部分就是說我們今天如果在海上有無人機相撞的時候我們的明確的指引是什麼\n我們說這個方法有沒有訂定一個原則或準則目前?\n無人機運用的現況及發展\n我們到時候當這些國家區域國家都遵守了這個訂定的機制之後我們自然就會加入這樣所以目前還沒有到未來會考慮訂定嗎是這個意思那另外就是媒體有報導呢我們在潛艦的戰隊未來可能會升格成艦隊也傳出說在蘇澳左營會規劃雙母港請問一下事情的這個情況那是否為真那進度如何\n我跟委員報告目前沒有講說一定要成立實體艦隊或艦隊另外也不界定在哪個地方要設立什麼母港這個港那個港我們只要講說有這個裝備一定要考量它將來不管維保或者存放位置這都併入考量的沒有設定性沒有一定要那在那個蘇澳跟左營規劃雙母港這個部分呢我們一樣嘛就各個港如果可能的我們都有大陸嘛我不能講在排除哪一個要哪一個\n我只記得委員你不要緊張我想我們有緊張\n您在哪一個時間點才知道事情的全貌的?\n我坦白講因為後來外面一直在他本身裡面又有傳言講可能有誤所以我就開始追憲兵不用在裡面講有傳言我當天質詢的時候就跟您說了嘛對我們先看一下當天我的說法好不好我們當天的詢答\n我必須很嚴肅的說在委員會裡面所有的答詢我們都希望你們是可以先了解狀況才做發言因為包含這麼多的媒體朋友全國的國人都在看那訊息出去之後那到底是否為事實那當然我們的軍人也在看\n那時候的情況是這樣,3月7號的立法院的公報,我問了這個211營士兵牌班扶擒的問題,戰哨的問題那呢,這個參謀長就說呢,報告確實有負責軍械業務,那幾天部隊有在打靶\n我們去看過當事人近三個月的勤務派遣部分：他有符合國軍的警衛教範一天最多三班少那我進一步問這個所謂一天三班少的部分那是站幾個小時 歇幾個小時所以我就問說那這幾個月來都是站二歇六嗎\n那參謀長回答說:「是的,我們看了他三個月以來的勤務狀況,我當即就回復說,那這樣非常有趣喔,因為我跟你們要的報表,就這張,這是一個平均的數字喔,都非常的漂亮,沒有問題,可是實際上我們去問了很多的憲兵同仁,那他們都說其實沒有像這麼好的,就確實人力也可能不足,勤務也比較操勞,\n所以這個初情統計表跟實際面臨到軍人的情況我當即就說我覺得還需要去做調查那請問一下為什麼會在打詢的過程當中提到了是戰二邪六而且是確認過他三個月的情誤狀況但後續的時候發現幾件事情第一個\n這個由媒體取得所謂古南生前的哨表如果他們報導有不對等一下你們可以做更正喔就談到說不只是沒有戰二卸六甚至是有戰二卸二的狀況再加上他的附加哨一天是六班哨其中四次是戰二卸一\n那再加上除了他以外還有很多的包含2月27號魏姓二兵五班少陳姓女下士連六班歇二然後3月5號歇兩四班少3月15號歇四那也接獲了多名的211的這個憲兵指說\n有兩份的哨表一份是應付督導的一份是真實戰哨情況我想多給你們一點時間可不可以把過程說明的清楚完整今天講完是這樣出去不希望又有其他的版本或是我們其他的國軍弟兄反應說我們在立法院陳述的是不實的\n可以啊,我要這樣好不好,我的原則上我們已經跟憲民都做交代,我也特別強調我們家人員該要做一個查處的,但不想把責任推給他,我的原頭為什麼要當初你這樣排,但你給我回報的是例外的答案,這是一個方法不好,所以我們全面檢討。\n來做一下說明好不好 給你們一點時間\n是,委員好,我是憲兵創工長首先感謝委員對這個事件的一個指導那先跟委員報告,因為當時在提供資料的時候那確實因為我們沒有審慎跟仔細的去了解整個一個衛哨那個全班的實況那造成在資料的提供上跟訊息的提供上那跟實況有所落差那在此先跟委員表達歉意那經過我們最近的全班檢視該營的所有的勤務、人力的調配跟休假的狀況\n那確實有發生有同仁佔兩歇兩跟佔兩歇四的一個狀況發生那目前我們也按照主觀參謀跟事觀三個軸線來深刻來檢討疏責人員的相關應該要的救責的責任那在後續的部分我們區分兩個部分第一個部分我們針對衛少全部派遣的部分那我們從上週起我們\n派遣由憲兵202指揮部副指揮官以上以及我們縣指部副參督察副主任等高階的幹部輪流到兩遙營去駐點主要是針對勤務哨表的集合讓他能夠確實在所有的武裝哨都能夠達到佔兩卸六的一個評次那第二個部分就是在人力補充的方面那為了我們去減緩整個勤務的一個繁重跟壓力\n我們區分兩個主軸第一個部分就是我們對全憲兵的同仁那至重點在北部第7及憲兵第202指揮部我們去調查有意願到兩邀引進服務的同仁那目前我們有意願的具有26個那我們也分別在陸陸續續的在輔導跟訓練那可以立即來提供提升他現有的一個能力從67.8到72.2那後續我們\n以上是我的報告\n這部分我們現在也在調查中 那我們整個這個調查的情形都會後續在我們的整個調查報告中 那把所有的事情都把它還原什麼時候會有調查報告?\n主席我希望可以再給我一分鐘時間因為我讓他們做比較長的回覆部長我最後想要跟您談一下就是說這麼多的國軍弟兄他們這麼的年輕然後來到我們軍中都是希望說他們能夠保家衛國都是對我們國家希望有貢獻那我們的長官我覺得也應該\n徐巧芯：徐巧芯\n那後續因為您們的在這裡的錯誤的說法導致於我想了很久或許211的其他憲兵的同仁他可能兩種情況第一種是這個古姓憲兵的同袍他的親友他覺得不對啊他碰到的情況根本不是你們所說的這樣所以他第一種情況他希望討公道希望真相大白這個部分只有透過完整的調查報告的公開才能讓大家理解\n第二是警訊,就是2110其他站的人﹖他們有站兩歇兩的情況﹖而且我看了一下還不少﹖他們可能看到這整個答詢﹖他們覺得為什麼你們說都是站二歇六﹖可是我們平常時的生活不是這樣﹖為什麼部長,為什麼參謀長你們要這樣講﹖我們很辛苦,我們很累﹖你們都沒有看到,你們都沒有感受到﹖所以他們才把事情提供給記者媒體﹖\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n我們要在勤務上面有足夠的衡評部長能不能夠承諾有什麼樣的一個改善方式給大家一個清楚的承諾好不好部長請稍微給我一點時間我一直很關切我一直很感激並沒有什麼抗拒的這種用意我跟同仁講我們只照顧官兵這不是一個什麼任務就我們應該要做的\n照顧官兵兩個第一個他權益我們不要讓他受損第二個他身心不要給他受傷他權益受損就包含他如果要申訴的話你這個申訴管道不能夠堵他不能夠不處理喔因為這跟水管一樣你不能堵也要讓他通所以目前這一方面可能做有點落差造成他誤會但我要跟大家說明講說我們絕對不會去不知道這個人講話把這個問題遮蓋掉\n第一,我們在有什麼問題出來了以後,我們有全面檢討的。所以檢討的方向一定是,第一,依法來辦理。第二,我們一直從內部開始檢討,沒有講推脫愛,他個人的問題,沒有愛。內部我們管理問題,工作壓力會不會太大,或者我們管教方面有什麼問題,還有例外也附帶的。他的感情,他債務,他家庭,他跟外界交友狀況,這一步一步來。\n最後我還是要跟主席報告因為我們回到剛剛那一章\n徐巧芯委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.449 --> 00:05.232\n謝謝主席我想請這個邱部長來部長請徐委員好部長好我想先請問您幾個時事問題喔就是呢對岸4月的時候要主辦西太平洋的海軍論壇那據目前的了解大概美國澳洲等30國左右的海軍高層會參加那\n\n00:29.767 --> 00:56.985\n有日媒指出這次的論壇它有一個主題是關於呢預防無人機海上飛行時碰撞意外的架構那中共他們就也訂定包含是海上相遇相關的使用情況還有呢無人機系統議題研究工作組那現在兩岸劍拔弩張大家就很關心說在海上相遇的這個無人機碰撞意外部分我們有沒有類似的機制什麼時候訂定\n\n00:58.148 --> 01:04.410\n所以我們平常有研究跟訓練的範疇那我們未來會去訂定比較明確的指引或是有成立工作小組這樣子的一個心態嗎?\n\n01:27.392 --> 01:52.853\n我們基本上我們在防而且防的方法最簡單講我們在一個界定在界限以內我們做我們的訓練那不會講說我們主動來發起這個災難走火這個問題但是他要做了以後那我們平常的應對是那個無人機部分部長我們是在談的是無人機部分就是說我們今天如果在海上有無人機相撞的時候我們的明確的指引是什麼\n\n01:53.848 --> 01:54.288\n我們說這個方法有沒有訂定一個原則或準則目前?\n\n02:12.336 --> 02:12.616\n無人機運用的現況及發展\n\n02:34.502 --> 02:57.199\n我們到時候當這些國家區域國家都遵守了這個訂定的機制之後我們自然就會加入這樣所以目前還沒有到未來會考慮訂定嗎是這個意思那另外就是媒體有報導呢我們在潛艦的戰隊未來可能會升格成艦隊也傳出說在蘇澳左營會規劃雙母港請問一下事情的這個情況那是否為真那進度如何\n\n02:57.901 --> 03:27.239\n我跟委員報告目前沒有講說一定要成立實體艦隊或艦隊另外也不界定在哪個地方要設立什麼母港這個港那個港我們只要講說有這個裝備一定要考量它將來不管維保或者存放位置這都併入考量的沒有設定性沒有一定要那在那個蘇澳跟左營規劃雙母港這個部分呢我們一樣嘛就各個港如果可能的我們都有大陸嘛我不能講在排除哪一個要哪一個\n\n03:28.012 --> 03:28.793\n我只記得委員你不要緊張我想我們有緊張\n\n03:45.930 --> 03:47.391\n您在哪一個時間點才知道事情的全貌的?\n\n04:05.669 --> 04:21.344\n我坦白講因為後來外面一直在他本身裡面又有傳言講可能有誤所以我就開始追憲兵不用在裡面講有傳言我當天質詢的時候就跟您說了嘛對我們先看一下當天我的說法好不好我們當天的詢答\n\n04:22.586 --> 04:38.788\n我必須很嚴肅的說在委員會裡面所有的答詢我們都希望你們是可以先了解狀況才做發言因為包含這麼多的媒體朋友全國的國人都在看那訊息出去之後那到底是否為事實那當然我們的軍人也在看\n\n04:39.289 --> 04:45.378\n那時候的情況是這樣,3月7號的立法院的公報,我問了這個211營士兵牌班扶擒的問題,戰哨的問題那呢,這個參謀長就說呢,報告確實有負責軍械業務,那幾天部隊有在打靶\n\n04:55.293 --> 05:12.964\n我們去看過當事人近三個月的勤務派遣部分：他有符合國軍的警衛教範一天最多三班少那我進一步問這個所謂一天三班少的部分那是站幾個小時歇幾個小時所以我就問說那這幾個月來都是站二歇六嗎\n\n05:13.704 --> 05:38.167\n那參謀長回答說:「是的,我們看了他三個月以來的勤務狀況,我當即就回復說,那這樣非常有趣喔,因為我跟你們要的報表,就這張,這是一個平均的數字喔,都非常的漂亮,沒有問題,可是實際上我們去問了很多的憲兵同仁,那他們都說其實沒有像這麼好的,就確實人力也可能不足,勤務也比較操勞,\n\n05:39.068 --> 05:55.436\n所以這個初情統計表跟實際面臨到軍人的情況我當即就說我覺得還需要去做調查那請問一下為什麼會在打詢的過程當中提到了是戰二邪六而且是確認過他三個月的情誤狀況但後續的時候發現幾件事情第一個\n\n06:00.775 --> 06:16.506\n這個由媒體取得所謂古南生前的哨表如果他們報導有不對等一下你們可以做更正喔就談到說不只是沒有戰二卸六甚至是有戰二卸二的狀況再加上他的附加哨一天是六班哨其中四次是戰二卸一\n\n06:18.027 --> 06:32.362\n那再加上除了他以外還有很多的包含2月27號魏姓二兵五班少陳姓女下士連六班歇二然後3月5號歇兩四班少3月15號歇四那也接獲了多名的211的這個憲兵指說\n\n06:35.265 --> 06:55.425\n有兩份的哨表一份是應付督導的一份是真實戰哨情況我想多給你們一點時間可不可以把過程說明的清楚完整今天講完是這樣出去不希望又有其他的版本或是我們其他的國軍弟兄反應說我們在立法院陳述的是不實的\n\n06:56.783 --> 07:17.000\n可以啊,我要這樣好不好,我的原則上我們已經跟憲民都做交代,我也特別強調我們家人員該要做一個查處的,但不想把責任推給他,我的原頭為什麼要當初你這樣排,但你給我回報的是例外的答案,這是一個方法不好,所以我們全面檢討。\n\n07:18.061 --> 07:19.602\n來做一下說明好不好給你們一點時間\n\n07:32.970 --> 08:02.089\n是,委員好,我是憲兵創工長首先感謝委員對這個事件的一個指導那先跟委員報告,因為當時在提供資料的時候那確實因為我們沒有審慎跟仔細的去了解整個一個衛哨那個全班的實況那造成在資料的提供上跟訊息的提供上那跟實況有所落差那在此先跟委員表達歉意那經過我們最近的全班檢視該營的所有的勤務、人力的調配跟休假的狀況\n\n08:03.030 --> 08:28.364\n那確實有發生有同仁佔兩歇兩跟佔兩歇四的一個狀況發生那目前我們也按照主觀參謀跟事觀三個軸線來深刻來檢討疏責人員的相關應該要的救責的責任那在後續的部分我們區分兩個部分第一個部分我們針對衛少全部派遣的部分那我們從上週起我們\n\n08:30.151 --> 08:53.324\n派遣由憲兵202指揮部副指揮官以上以及我們縣指部副參督察副主任等高階的幹部輪流到兩遙營去駐點主要是針對勤務哨表的集合讓他能夠確實在所有的武裝哨都能夠達到佔兩卸六的一個評次那第二個部分就是在人力補充的方面那為了我們去減緩整個勤務的一個繁重跟壓力\n\n08:54.284 --> 09:18.097\n我們區分兩個主軸第一個部分就是我們對全憲兵的同仁那至重點在北部第7及憲兵第202指揮部我們去調查有意願到兩邀引進服務的同仁那目前我們有意願的具有26個那我們也分別在陸陸續續的在輔導跟訓練那可以立即來提供提升他現有的一個能力從67.8到72.2那後續我們\n\n09:22.139 --> 09:22.679\n以上是我的報告\n\n09:44.505 --> 09:50.067\n這部分我們現在也在調查中那我們整個這個調查的情形都會後續在我們的整個調查報告中那把所有的事情都把它還原什麼時候會有調查報告?\n\n10:08.922 --> 10:32.300\n主席我希望可以再給我一分鐘時間因為我讓他們做比較長的回覆部長我最後想要跟您談一下就是說這麼多的國軍弟兄他們這麼的年輕然後來到我們軍中都是希望說他們能夠保家衛國都是對我們國家希望有貢獻那我們的長官我覺得也應該\n\n10:33.601 --> 10:34.001\n徐巧芯：徐巧芯\n\n10:52.569 --> 11:21.798\n那後續因為您們的在這裡的錯誤的說法導致於我想了很久或許211的其他憲兵的同仁他可能兩種情況第一種是這個古姓憲兵的同袍他的親友他覺得不對啊他碰到的情況根本不是你們所說的這樣所以他第一種情況他希望討公道希望真相大白這個部分只有透過完整的調查報告的公開才能讓大家理解\n\n11:22.378 --> 11:48.032\n第二是警訊,就是2110其他站的人﹖他們有站兩歇兩的情況﹖而且我看了一下還不少﹖他們可能看到這整個答詢﹖他們覺得為什麼你們說都是站二歇六﹖可是我們平常時的生活不是這樣﹖為什麼部長,為什麼參謀長你們要這樣講﹖我們很辛苦,我們很累﹖你們都沒有看到,你們都沒有感受到﹖所以他們才把事情提供給記者媒體﹖\n\n11:48.832 --> 11:49.573\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n12:10.570 --> 12:31.527\n我們要在勤務上面有足夠的衡評部長能不能夠承諾有什麼樣的一個改善方式給大家一個清楚的承諾好不好部長請稍微給我一點時間我一直很關切我一直很感激並沒有什麼抗拒的這種用意我跟同仁講我們只照顧官兵這不是一個什麼任務就我們應該要做的\n\n12:33.849 --> 12:57.137\n照顧官兵兩個第一個他權益我們不要讓他受損第二個他身心不要給他受傷他權益受損就包含他如果要申訴的話你這個申訴管道不能夠堵他不能夠不處理喔因為這跟水管一樣你不能堵也要讓他通所以目前這一方面可能做有點落差造成他誤會但我要跟大家說明講說我們絕對不會去不知道這個人講話把這個問題遮蓋掉\n\n13:00.018 --> 13:11.085\n第一,我們在有什麼問題出來了以後,我們有全面檢討的。所以檢討的方向一定是,第一,依法來辦理。第二,我們一直從內部開始檢討,沒有講推脫愛,他個人的問題,沒有愛。內部我們管理問題,工作壓力會不會太大,或者我們管教方面有什麼問題,還有例外也附帶的。他的感情,他債務,他家庭,他跟外界交友狀況,這一步一步來。\n\n13:26.215 --> 13:27.877\n最後我還是要跟主席報告因為我們回到剛剛那一章\n\n13:43.379 --> 13:44.060\n徐巧芯委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.449,"end":5.232,"text":"謝謝主席我想請這個邱部長來部長請徐委員好部長好我想先請問您幾個時事問題喔就是呢對岸4月的時候要主辦西太平洋的海軍論壇那據目前的了解大概美國澳洲等30國左右的海軍高層會參加那"},{"start":29.767,"end":56.985,"text":"有日媒指出這次的論壇它有一個主題是關於呢預防無人機海上飛行時碰撞意外的架構那中共他們就也訂定包含是海上相遇相關的使用情況還有呢無人機系統議題研究工作組那現在兩岸劍拔弩張大家就很關心說在海上相遇的這個無人機碰撞意外部分我們有沒有類似的機制什麼時候訂定"},{"start":58.148,"end":64.41,"text":"所以我們平常有研究跟訓練的範疇那我們未來會去訂定比較明確的指引或是有成立工作小組這樣子的一個心態嗎?"},{"start":87.392,"end":112.853,"text":"我們基本上我們在防而且防的方法最簡單講我們在一個界定在界限以內我們做我們的訓練那不會講說我們主動來發起這個災難走火這個問題但是他要做了以後那我們平常的應對是那個無人機部分部長我們是在談的是無人機部分就是說我們今天如果在海上有無人機相撞的時候我們的明確的指引是什麼"},{"start":113.848,"end":114.288,"text":"我們說這個方法有沒有訂定一個原則或準則目前?"},{"start":132.336,"end":132.616,"text":"無人機運用的現況及發展"},{"start":154.502,"end":177.199,"text":"我們到時候當這些國家區域國家都遵守了這個訂定的機制之後我們自然就會加入這樣所以目前還沒有到未來會考慮訂定嗎是這個意思那另外就是媒體有報導呢我們在潛艦的戰隊未來可能會升格成艦隊也傳出說在蘇澳左營會規劃雙母港請問一下事情的這個情況那是否為真那進度如何"},{"start":177.901,"end":207.239,"text":"我跟委員報告目前沒有講說一定要成立實體艦隊或艦隊另外也不界定在哪個地方要設立什麼母港這個港那個港我們只要講說有這個裝備一定要考量它將來不管維保或者存放位置這都併入考量的沒有設定性沒有一定要那在那個蘇澳跟左營規劃雙母港這個部分呢我們一樣嘛就各個港如果可能的我們都有大陸嘛我不能講在排除哪一個要哪一個"},{"start":208.012,"end":208.793,"text":"我只記得委員你不要緊張我想我們有緊張"},{"start":225.93,"end":227.391,"text":"您在哪一個時間點才知道事情的全貌的?"},{"start":245.669,"end":261.344,"text":"我坦白講因為後來外面一直在他本身裡面又有傳言講可能有誤所以我就開始追憲兵不用在裡面講有傳言我當天質詢的時候就跟您說了嘛對我們先看一下當天我的說法好不好我們當天的詢答"},{"start":262.586,"end":278.788,"text":"我必須很嚴肅的說在委員會裡面所有的答詢我們都希望你們是可以先了解狀況才做發言因為包含這麼多的媒體朋友全國的國人都在看那訊息出去之後那到底是否為事實那當然我們的軍人也在看"},{"start":279.289,"end":285.378,"text":"那時候的情況是這樣,3月7號的立法院的公報,我問了這個211營士兵牌班扶擒的問題,戰哨的問題那呢,這個參謀長就說呢,報告確實有負責軍械業務,那幾天部隊有在打靶"},{"start":295.293,"end":312.964,"text":"我們去看過當事人近三個月的勤務派遣部分：他有符合國軍的警衛教範一天最多三班少那我進一步問這個所謂一天三班少的部分那是站幾個小時 歇幾個小時所以我就問說那這幾個月來都是站二歇六嗎"},{"start":313.704,"end":338.167,"text":"那參謀長回答說:「是的,我們看了他三個月以來的勤務狀況,我當即就回復說,那這樣非常有趣喔,因為我跟你們要的報表,就這張,這是一個平均的數字喔,都非常的漂亮,沒有問題,可是實際上我們去問了很多的憲兵同仁,那他們都說其實沒有像這麼好的,就確實人力也可能不足,勤務也比較操勞,"},{"start":339.068,"end":355.436,"text":"所以這個初情統計表跟實際面臨到軍人的情況我當即就說我覺得還需要去做調查那請問一下為什麼會在打詢的過程當中提到了是戰二邪六而且是確認過他三個月的情誤狀況但後續的時候發現幾件事情第一個"},{"start":360.775,"end":376.506,"text":"這個由媒體取得所謂古南生前的哨表如果他們報導有不對等一下你們可以做更正喔就談到說不只是沒有戰二卸六甚至是有戰二卸二的狀況再加上他的附加哨一天是六班哨其中四次是戰二卸一"},{"start":378.027,"end":392.362,"text":"那再加上除了他以外還有很多的包含2月27號魏姓二兵五班少陳姓女下士連六班歇二然後3月5號歇兩四班少3月15號歇四那也接獲了多名的211的這個憲兵指說"},{"start":395.265,"end":415.425,"text":"有兩份的哨表一份是應付督導的一份是真實戰哨情況我想多給你們一點時間可不可以把過程說明的清楚完整今天講完是這樣出去不希望又有其他的版本或是我們其他的國軍弟兄反應說我們在立法院陳述的是不實的"},{"start":416.783,"end":437,"text":"可以啊,我要這樣好不好,我的原則上我們已經跟憲民都做交代,我也特別強調我們家人員該要做一個查處的,但不想把責任推給他,我的原頭為什麼要當初你這樣排,但你給我回報的是例外的答案,這是一個方法不好,所以我們全面檢討。"},{"start":438.061,"end":439.602,"text":"來做一下說明好不好 給你們一點時間"},{"start":452.97,"end":482.089,"text":"是,委員好,我是憲兵創工長首先感謝委員對這個事件的一個指導那先跟委員報告,因為當時在提供資料的時候那確實因為我們沒有審慎跟仔細的去了解整個一個衛哨那個全班的實況那造成在資料的提供上跟訊息的提供上那跟實況有所落差那在此先跟委員表達歉意那經過我們最近的全班檢視該營的所有的勤務、人力的調配跟休假的狀況"},{"start":483.03,"end":508.364,"text":"那確實有發生有同仁佔兩歇兩跟佔兩歇四的一個狀況發生那目前我們也按照主觀參謀跟事觀三個軸線來深刻來檢討疏責人員的相關應該要的救責的責任那在後續的部分我們區分兩個部分第一個部分我們針對衛少全部派遣的部分那我們從上週起我們"},{"start":510.151,"end":533.324,"text":"派遣由憲兵202指揮部副指揮官以上以及我們縣指部副參督察副主任等高階的幹部輪流到兩遙營去駐點主要是針對勤務哨表的集合讓他能夠確實在所有的武裝哨都能夠達到佔兩卸六的一個評次那第二個部分就是在人力補充的方面那為了我們去減緩整個勤務的一個繁重跟壓力"},{"start":534.284,"end":558.097,"text":"我們區分兩個主軸第一個部分就是我們對全憲兵的同仁那至重點在北部第7及憲兵第202指揮部我們去調查有意願到兩邀引進服務的同仁那目前我們有意願的具有26個那我們也分別在陸陸續續的在輔導跟訓練那可以立即來提供提升他現有的一個能力從67.8到72.2那後續我們"},{"start":562.139,"end":562.679,"text":"以上是我的報告"},{"start":584.505,"end":590.067,"text":"這部分我們現在也在調查中 那我們整個這個調查的情形都會後續在我們的整個調查報告中 那把所有的事情都把它還原什麼時候會有調查報告?"},{"start":608.922,"end":632.3,"text":"主席我希望可以再給我一分鐘時間因為我讓他們做比較長的回覆部長我最後想要跟您談一下就是說這麼多的國軍弟兄他們這麼的年輕然後來到我們軍中都是希望說他們能夠保家衛國都是對我們國家希望有貢獻那我們的長官我覺得也應該"},{"start":633.601,"end":634.001,"text":"徐巧芯：徐巧芯"},{"start":652.569,"end":681.798,"text":"那後續因為您們的在這裡的錯誤的說法導致於我想了很久或許211的其他憲兵的同仁他可能兩種情況第一種是這個古姓憲兵的同袍他的親友他覺得不對啊他碰到的情況根本不是你們所說的這樣所以他第一種情況他希望討公道希望真相大白這個部分只有透過完整的調查報告的公開才能讓大家理解"},{"start":682.378,"end":708.032,"text":"第二是警訊,就是2110其他站的人﹖他們有站兩歇兩的情況﹖而且我看了一下還不少﹖他們可能看到這整個答詢﹖他們覺得為什麼你們說都是站二歇六﹖可是我們平常時的生活不是這樣﹖為什麼部長,為什麼參謀長你們要這樣講﹖我們很辛苦,我們很累﹖你們都沒有看到,你們都沒有感受到﹖所以他們才把事情提供給記者媒體﹖"},{"start":708.832,"end":709.573,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":730.57,"end":751.527,"text":"我們要在勤務上面有足夠的衡評部長能不能夠承諾有什麼樣的一個改善方式給大家一個清楚的承諾好不好部長請稍微給我一點時間我一直很關切我一直很感激並沒有什麼抗拒的這種用意我跟同仁講我們只照顧官兵這不是一個什麼任務就我們應該要做的"},{"start":753.849,"end":777.137,"text":"照顧官兵兩個第一個他權益我們不要讓他受損第二個他身心不要給他受傷他權益受損就包含他如果要申訴的話你這個申訴管道不能夠堵他不能夠不處理喔因為這跟水管一樣你不能堵也要讓他通所以目前這一方面可能做有點落差造成他誤會但我要跟大家說明講說我們絕對不會去不知道這個人講話把這個問題遮蓋掉"},{"start":780.018,"end":791.085,"text":"第一,我們在有什麼問題出來了以後,我們有全面檢討的。所以檢討的方向一定是,第一,依法來辦理。第二,我們一直從內部開始檢討,沒有講推脫愛,他個人的問題,沒有愛。內部我們管理問題,工作壓力會不會太大,或者我們管教方面有什麼問題,還有例外也附帶的。他的感情,他債務,他家庭,他跟外界交友狀況,這一步一步來。"},{"start":806.215,"end":807.877,"text":"最後我還是要跟主席報告因為我們回到剛剛那一章"},{"start":823.379,"end":824.06,"text":"徐巧芯委員"}]}}}}