{"id":150457,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150457","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5c69f435b6b010160a3d9204d572e03aff8ba9b0039caa7a63309862b0372d3b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"10:05:30 - 10:15:04","影片長度":"00:09:34","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案(含報告事項45案及討論事項4案)。【如經復議則不予處理或審查】\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】\n【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":574,"end_time":"2024-03-27T10:15:04+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T10:05:30+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":290,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時5分）主席好，我們有請薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長好。我想請問一下，針對碳費的費率，環團現在建議每噸是500，我們政府傾向在300左右，企業建議初期從100開始，部裡面現在決定的金額是多少？"],["薛部長富盛：跟邱委員報告，我們部裡是不會去決定啦！基本上是根據氣候法由碳費費率審議委員會去審查，審查之後他們用什麼方式呈現給環境部，我們到時候再來作決定，我們的責任就是趕快把子法去做預告。"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在12項優先的子法，你們已經完成7項，還有5項沒有完成，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：還有4項跟碳費相關的還沒有完成。"],["邱委員鎮軍：據我盤點，至少還有15項子法不是優先的，加起來都還沒有一個確定的作法，是不是？"],["薛部長富盛：這個有一些是準則，我想我們氣候署應該都有持續在進行。"],["邱委員鎮軍：昨天碳費第二次審查，審議委員有提到，環境部提供較為確實的法律架構才能進一步討論嘛！部長，您現在急著要開始執行的話，這會不會有問題？"],["薛部長富盛：我認同邱委員的看法，環境部應該更周全地考量碳費，包括起徵點。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊！因為這樣子會讓人家覺得我們是先射箭再畫靶，到時候影響的問題會非常地大。"],["薛部長富盛：跟邱委員報告，當然各部門在做任何事情都有一些規劃，規劃也要考量實際的情況，包括我們也都瞭解，邱委員也提到，電價要上漲，所以環境部在碳費這一塊，我們也會傳達給費率審議委員會。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，因為因應電價調漲，再加上碳費的這個部分，我想對我們的企業或是民間的人民所造成的影響是非常大的。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，我們有看到，台電現在大概虧損了四千億左右，如果照這個溫室氣體排放量資訊平台的統計，我們在111年的發電量，碳排量大概是1億0,500萬噸，如果1噸以300元來計算，一年將多支出三百多億。我看到你們報告裡面是寫，我們的電費是不收取費用嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：跟邱委員報告，根據氣候法裡面的規定，因為台電所發的電量大部分都是提供給其他的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看到您的報告，全臺灣有24家的電力業者是不用繳費的嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：這個會扣除掉。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不用繳碳費嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：自營電廠的話要，台電……"],["邱委員鎮軍：自營電廠要嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以台電的不用？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為基於公平的原則，他們是營利，台電是配合政府的政策。"],["薛部長富盛：認同。"],["邱委員鎮軍：他們已經有他們的利潤了，你不應該把他們的利潤又提高更多，讓我們人民來買單，這樣是不行的。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝邱委員的提醒，環境部的確是這樣在做。"],["邱委員鎮軍：有這樣做嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，我再請問一下，在碳排有價的74個國家地區，有37個是收碳稅的，對吧？"],["薛部長富盛：是，碳稅跟碳費事實上是在一起，對臺灣而言，我們長期也是要走碳稅。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那你幹麼現在要走碳費？"],["薛部長富盛：一定要有一個過渡的時期，因為我們目標是要減碳，對環境部而言，收取碳費絕對不是我們的最終目標，我們的最終目標是符合2050淨零排放的這個大目標。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那你這段期間呢？這段期間你還是用碳費嘛！對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：這段期間會以碳費當作一個工具。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你現在還是用碳費嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：什麼？"],["邱委員鎮軍：用碳費來收嘛，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：是，用碳費，因為碳費可以專款專用。"],["邱委員鎮軍：沒有錯，碳費是專款專用，如果是碳稅的話，是到國家的……"],["薛部長富盛：整體的大水庫。"],["邱委員鎮軍：是到大水庫去嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那等於就是說，碳費是環境部以後的私房錢？"],["薛部長富盛：不能這樣講，這個是公家的錢，不是私房錢。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得這筆錢的運用，我們必須要有一個非常明確的做法。"],["薛部長富盛：跟邱委員報告，氣候法裡面有列13項，都已經很清楚定義了，所以我想環境部大概也沒有權限說想要額外再增加的項目。"],["邱委員鎮軍：目前我們歐盟CBAM是對產品課稅嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們的碳費是針對企業組織？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所謂CBAM初期的規劃產業當然不是我們臺灣主要出口的項目。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：日本跟美國也在評估類似CBAM的做法，臺灣要如何讓國際承認我們的碳費機制？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上，歐盟這一塊，他們執行細節也沒有出來，本來說去年底要出來，也沒有出來。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以我們現在做，會不會到時候我們的做法不被國際認同？"],["薛部長富盛：不會，根據他們的母法不會，應該會被認證，只是我跟邱委員報告……"],["邱委員鎮軍：會不會像以前我們打高端一樣，打了之後別的國家不認同，我們要重打一次？"],["薛部長富盛：高端後來被證明效果非常好，我個人也是打高端啊！"],["邱委員鎮軍：問題那時候也造成了國人的困擾，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：不會啊！有時候是媒體或者是有一些不同觀點的人刻意去炒作的，我個人一直對高端很有信心。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，我們不講這個問題了，現在一樣是講到這個，我們擔心的是，如果我們收取碳費的機制不被國際採納，我們有沒有什麼相應的做法？"],["薛部長富盛：跟邱委員報告，基本上我們收的碳費跟CBAM不完全相等，因為CBAM是針對輸到他那邊的產品。跟邱委員報告，事實上經濟部很盡責任，他們已經針對輸歐盟受影響的這些，包括螺絲、鋁製品等等產業都進行輔導了，所以事實上那一塊倒是也還滿不錯的，這些廠商大概都知道，經濟部也採取必要的協助措施，所以跟碳費不必然有關係，因為CBAM要去繳certificate的那個廠家，不必然是環境部要收取碳費的對象，因為它的排碳量沒有那麼大。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，最好是要這樣啦！我們現在來談一下碳費專款專用的部分。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們列了13項用途，這13項用途是什麼？有沒有更詳細的規劃？"],["薛部長富盛：我沒有辦法背起來，現在年紀太大了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你大概講一下。"],["薛部長富盛：我想基本上當然就是以減碳為主，也要顧及包括公正轉型等等的議題……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我請問部長，其中有一項，就是補助直轄市、縣（市）主管機關執行溫室氣體減量工作事項，這個部分是指哪些？只要有掛上同樣的字、相關字就符合嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上，除了碳費之外，行政院也通過一個氣候變遷調適的計畫，那個就是中央與地方共同來合作，所以氣候法也明確地講補助直轄市……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們對繳費大戶的所在縣市有沒有特別的回饋？"],["薛部長富盛：這個補助的機制還有時間可以討論，因為現在畢竟還沒收……"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，希望到時候符合公平正義的原則，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，我再問一下，再給我一點時間。部長，現在您看到我們最後一個，有10項我們苗栗縣爭取很久的廢棄物處理重大案件，這個部分我希望部長能夠協助苗栗縣來辦理……"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為剛剛陳昭姿委員也有講到我們掩埋場的問題，在去年我們苗栗市的焚化爐也是發生了大火，那個部分因為以前是沒有做不透水布，但是我覺得那還是要處理，那對環境還是會造成影響，當然這個計畫比較大，希望部長全力來協助，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好，跟邱委員報告，我們絕對會全力來協助，也請邱委員可以試著轉達苗栗縣政府，在計畫的研提方面，也希望能夠配合部裡的一些要求，基本上，我們也是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，我可以當這個橋梁，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：如果部裡面碰到這個問題，可以先聯絡我，我再來協助，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，謝謝部長。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝邱委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱鎮軍委員。等一下在廖偉翔委員質詢結束後，休息10分鐘。","現在請涂權吉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-9","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","陳菁徽","劉建國","盧縣一","陳昭姿","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","洪申翰","李彥秀","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","黃國昌","陳冠廷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132102_00002","1132102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍\n結案49案（含報告事項45案及討論事項4案）（前接第一冊）","agenda_id":"1132102_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150457","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150457","tool":"pyannote","id":"150457-pyannote"},"job_id":"L0ZqoCNtKbzeC755","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"text\": \"事實上歐盟這一塊他們執行細節也沒有出來本來說7年底要出來也沒有去了所以我們現在做會不會到時候我們的做法不被國籍認同根據他們的母法不會應該會被認證只是我跟邱委員報告會不會像以前我們打高端一樣打了之後別的國家不認同我們要重打一次不過高端後來被證明效果非常好我個人也是打高端\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 341.649, \"end\": 341.789, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 341.789, \"end\": 342.069, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"歐\", \"start\": 342.069, \"end\": 342.229, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"盟\", \"start\": 342.229, \"end\": 342.69, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 342.69, \"end\": 343.11, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"塊\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 343.11, \"end\": 343.95, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 343.95, \"end\": 345.291, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"細\"}, {\"word\": \"節\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 345.291, \"end\": 345.411, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 345.411, \"end\": 345.511, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 345.511, 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--> 00:00:36,199\n主席好,我們有請我們薛部長。請薛部長。好,邱仁好。部長好。我想請問一下,就是針對碳費的費率,那麼環團現在說每噸,他建議每噸是500,那我們政府傾向是300左右。那企業呢,初期建議,初期從100開始。那我想,我們部裡面現在的決定的金額是多少?\n\n2\n00:00:37,119 --> 00:00:43,367\n給邱委員報告是不理我們不會去決定基本上是根據氣候法是由碳費會議審議委員會他們去\n\n3\n00:00:47,322 --> 00:01:04,678\n審查那審查他們要用什麼方式呈現給環境部我們那時候再來做決定那我們的責任就是趕快把執法去做這個預告您的執法現在12項優先的執法我們現在已經完成7項還有5項還沒完成嘛對不對還有4項跟碳費相關的還沒有完成\n\n4\n00:01:08,581 --> 00:01:26,088\n那我據我盤點過是我們至少還有15項的執法不是優先的啦是加起來都還沒有都還沒有一個確定的一個做法是不是啊這個有一些是準則我想我們都企業屬應該有持續在進行的\n\n5\n00:01:27,017 --> 00:01:40,683\n我們昨天碳費第二次審查我們審議委員有提到環境部提供較為確實的法律架構才能進一步討論那部長您這個是您現在說急著要開始來執行的話這是會不會有問題\n\n6\n00:01:44,778 --> 00:02:06,708\n我認同邱委員的一個看法就是說環境部應該更周全的來考量碳費這個包括起徵點因為這樣子會讓人家覺得我們是先設建再劃把這個到時候影響的問題會非常的大邱委員報告基本上就是說當然各部門的他應該有一些做任何事情都有一些規劃\n\n7\n00:02:08,830 --> 00:02:36,033\n規劃我們也要考量實際的一個情況那現在的的確包括我們也都了解這個邱文也提到電價要上漲那所以環境部當然在碳費這一塊我們也會傳達給對因為這個部分我們在因應這個電價的再調漲之後再加上這個碳費的這個收入這個部分我想對於我們的企業或者是我們民間我們人民都這個影響是非常大的是\n\n8\n00:02:36,694 --> 00:02:39,000\n另外我們有看到就是說\n\n9\n00:02:41,490 --> 00:03:04,778\n我們台電現在就是虧損了大概4000億左右那如果照這個溫室氣體排放量的資訊平台的統計我們這個在這個111年發電量含排量大概1億零500萬噸那如果一噸300元計算一年將多支出300多億我看到我們的報告裡面是寫說我們的電費是\n\n10\n00:03:08,066 --> 00:03:12,370\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n11\n00:03:29,424 --> 00:03:54,076\n致電電廠那個要致電電廠要嗎對對對對所以臺電的不用是對因為這個因為他這個是公平的是原則因為他們是盈利臺電是配合政府的政策認同你不應該把這個他們有他們有已經有他他們的利潤了你不應該把這個他們的利潤然後又又提提高到更多然後讓我們人民來買單啊這樣是不行的謝謝邱委員的提醒\n\n12\n00:03:54,816 --> 00:03:56,257\n對台灣而言我們長期也是要走碳稅\n\n13\n00:04:14,770 --> 00:04:33,348\n那你幹嘛現在要走碳線?沒有沒有一定要有一個過渡時期因為我們目標是要減碳對環境部而言收取碳費絕對不是我們的最終目標我們的最終目標是符合2050淨零排放的這個大目標那你這段期間勒?對對你這段期間你還是用碳費當作一個工具\n\n14\n00:04:34,452 --> 00:04:54,746\n你現在還是用碳費嘛?用碳費來收嘛?對不對?是,因為碳費可以專款專用。因為我知道碳費他是專款專用,如果是碳稅的話是到國家的大水庫去嘛。那等於就是說,碳費是我們環境部的私房錢?不能講,這個是公交的錢,不是私房錢。\n\n15\n00:04:57,048 --> 00:05:14,580\n所以我覺得這筆錢的應用我們必須要有一個非常明確的一個作法。請問報告,七六法裡面都有列13項都已經很清楚被定義了。所以我想大概環境部也沒有額外的這個權限說想要再額外增加的項目。\n\n16\n00:05:14,980 --> 00:05:38,075\n然後目前我們歐盟的CBAM的這個是對產品剋稅嘛那我們的碳費是針對企業組織是那所謂的這個CBAM初期的規劃產業當然不是我們台灣主要出口的項目啦我們日本跟美國也在評估類似的CBAM的做法那台灣要如何讓國際來承認我們的碳費機制\n\n17\n00:05:41,649 --> 00:06:04,358\n事實上歐盟這一塊他們執行細節也沒有出來本來說7年底要出來也沒有去了所以我們現在做會不會到時候我們的做法不被國籍認同根據他們的母法不會應該會被認證只是我跟邱委員報告會不會像以前我們打高端一樣打了之後別的國家不認同我們要重打一次不過高端後來被證明效果非常好我個人也是打高端\n\n18\n00:06:05,358 --> 00:06:16,204\n問題那時候也是造成國人的一個困擾嗎?對啊!有時候是媒體或者有一些不同觀點的人刻意去炒作的我個人一直對高端很有信心\n\n19\n00:06:17,268 --> 00:06:40,848\n我們不講這個問題啦因為我們現在就一樣是講到這個我們擔心的是如果我們的高端我們的這個收費的、碳費的機制如果不被國際採納那我們有沒有什麼相應的作用給邱委員報告基本上就是說我們收費碳費跟西本不完全相等因為西本它是針對輸到碳那邊的產品那跟邱委員報告事實上經濟部\n\n20\n00:07:05,484 --> 00:07:08,405\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n21\n00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:56,099\n你大概講一下。我想基本上當然就是以減碳為主。它也要顧及包括公正轉型等等的這個議題。那我請問部長,就是我們有一項就是補助直轄市縣市主管機關執行溫室氣體減量工作事項。那這部分是指哪些?只有掛上同樣的相關字就符合嗎?\n\n22\n00:07:56,519 --> 00:08:17,347\n事實上除了碳會之外我們也因應行政院通過一個調適變遷氣候變遷的一個計畫那個就是中央跟地方共同來合作所以這裡面氣候法也明確的在這邊講嘛那我們所以繳費的這個大戶的所在縣市有沒有特別的回饋\n\n23\n00:08:19,994 --> 00:08:37,399\n這個補助的機制還可以有時間討論。希望部長到時候符合公平正義的一個原則。另外我再問一下,再給我一點時間。部長現在您看到我們最後一個有10項我們苗栗縣爭取很久的廢棄物處理的一個重大案件。\n\n24\n00:08:42,336 --> 00:09:00,281\n這個部分我希望部長能夠協助苗栗縣來辦理因為剛剛也講到陳昭之委也有講到我們掩埋場的問題在去年我們苗栗市的焚化爐也是發生了大火但是那個部分因為以前是沒有做不透水布\n\n25\n00:09:01,241 --> 00:09:22,999\n但是我覺得還是要處理那對環境還是會造成影響那當然這個計劃比較大那希望部長全力來協助好不好我們覺得會全力來協助那也請求可以適度的轉達苗栗縣政府部長在計劃的原題方面也希望能夠配合部裡的一些要求基本上我們也是\n\n26\n00:09:23,359 --> 00:09:23,599\n邱政軍委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8573\t36199\t主席好,我們有請我們薛部長。請薛部長。好,邱仁好。部長好。我想請問一下,就是針對碳費的費率,那麼環團現在說每噸,他建議每噸是500,那我們政府傾向是300左右。那企業呢,初期建議,初期從100開始。那我想,我們部裡面現在的決定的金額是多少?\n37119\t43367\t給邱委員報告是不理我們不會去決定基本上是根據氣候法是由碳費會議審議委員會他們去\n47322\t64678\t審查那審查他們要用什麼方式呈現給環境部我們那時候再來做決定那我們的責任就是趕快把執法去做這個預告您的執法現在12項優先的執法我們現在已經完成7項還有5項還沒完成嘛對不對還有4項跟碳費相關的還沒有完成\n68581\t86088\t那我據我盤點過是我們至少還有15項的執法不是優先的啦是加起來都還沒有都還沒有一個確定的一個做法是不是啊這個有一些是準則我想我們都企業屬應該有持續在進行的\n87017\t100683\t我們昨天碳費第二次審查我們審議委員有提到環境部提供較為確實的法律架構才能進一步討論那部長您這個是您現在說急著要開始來執行的話這是會不會有問題\n104778\t126708\t我認同邱委員的一個看法就是說環境部應該更周全的來考量碳費這個包括起徵點因為這樣子會讓人家覺得我們是先設建再劃把這個到時候影響的問題會非常的大邱委員報告基本上就是說當然各部門的他應該有一些做任何事情都有一些規劃\n128830\t156033\t規劃我們也要考量實際的一個情況那現在的的確包括我們也都了解這個邱文也提到電價要上漲那所以環境部當然在碳費這一塊我們也會傳達給對因為這個部分我們在因應這個電價的再調漲之後再加上這個碳費的這個收入這個部分我想對於我們的企業或者是我們民間我們人民都這個影響是非常大的是\n156694\t159000\t另外我們有看到就是說\n161490\t184778\t我們台電現在就是虧損了大概4000億左右那如果照這個溫室氣體排放量的資訊平台的統計我們這個在這個111年發電量含排量大概1億零500萬噸那如果一噸300元計算一年將多支出300多億我看到我們的報告裡面是寫說我們的電費是\n188066\t192370\t含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n209424\t234076\t致電電廠那個要致電電廠要嗎對對對對所以臺電的不用是對因為這個因為他這個是公平的是原則因為他們是盈利臺電是配合政府的政策認同你不應該把這個他們有他們有已經有他他們的利潤了你不應該把這個他們的利潤然後又又提提高到更多然後讓我們人民來買單啊這樣是不行的謝謝邱委員的提醒\n234816\t236257\t對台灣而言我們長期也是要走碳稅\n254770\t273348\t那你幹嘛現在要走碳線?沒有沒有一定要有一個過渡時期因為我們目標是要減碳對環境部而言收取碳費絕對不是我們的最終目標我們的最終目標是符合2050淨零排放的這個大目標那你這段期間勒?對對你這段期間你還是用碳費當作一個工具\n274452\t294746\t你現在還是用碳費嘛?用碳費來收嘛?對不對?是,因為碳費可以專款專用。因為我知道碳費他是專款專用,如果是碳稅的話是到國家的大水庫去嘛。那等於就是說,碳費是我們環境部的私房錢?不能講,這個是公交的錢,不是私房錢。\n297048\t314580\t所以我覺得這筆錢的應用我們必須要有一個非常明確的一個作法。請問報告,七六法裡面都有列13項都已經很清楚被定義了。所以我想大概環境部也沒有額外的這個權限說想要再額外增加的項目。\n314980\t338075\t然後目前我們歐盟的CBAM的這個是對產品剋稅嘛那我們的碳費是針對企業組織是那所謂的這個CBAM初期的規劃產業當然不是我們台灣主要出口的項目啦我們日本跟美國也在評估類似的CBAM的做法那台灣要如何讓國際來承認我們的碳費機制\n341649\t364358\t事實上歐盟這一塊他們執行細節也沒有出來本來說7年底要出來也沒有去了所以我們現在做會不會到時候我們的做法不被國籍認同根據他們的母法不會應該會被認證只是我跟邱委員報告會不會像以前我們打高端一樣打了之後別的國家不認同我們要重打一次不過高端後來被證明效果非常好我個人也是打高端\n365358\t376204\t問題那時候也是造成國人的一個困擾嗎?對啊!有時候是媒體或者有一些不同觀點的人刻意去炒作的我個人一直對高端很有信心\n377268\t400848\t我們不講這個問題啦因為我們現在就一樣是講到這個我們擔心的是如果我們的高端我們的這個收費的、碳費的機制如果不被國際採納那我們有沒有什麼相應的作用給邱委員報告基本上就是說我們收費碳費跟西本不完全相等因為西本它是針對輸到碳那邊的產品那跟邱委員報告事實上經濟部\n402312\t424514\t議員會長\n425484\t428405\t含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n450680\t476099\t你大概講一下。我想基本上當然就是以減碳為主。它也要顧及包括公正轉型等等的這個議題。那我請問部長,就是我們有一項就是補助直轄市縣市主管機關執行溫室氣體減量工作事項。那這部分是指哪些?只有掛上同樣的相關字就符合嗎?\n476519\t497347\t事實上除了碳會之外我們也因應行政院通過一個調適變遷氣候變遷的一個計畫那個就是中央跟地方共同來合作所以這裡面氣候法也明確的在這邊講嘛那我們所以繳費的這個大戶的所在縣市有沒有特別的回饋\n499994\t517399\t這個補助的機制還可以有時間討論。希望部長到時候符合公平正義的一個原則。另外我再問一下,再給我一點時間。部長現在您看到我們最後一個有10項我們苗栗縣爭取很久的廢棄物處理的一個重大案件。\n522336\t540281\t這個部分我希望部長能夠協助苗栗縣來辦理因為剛剛也講到陳昭之委也有講到我們掩埋場的問題在去年我們苗栗市的焚化爐也是發生了大火但是那個部分因為以前是沒有做不透水布\n541241\t562999\t但是我覺得還是要處理那對環境還是會造成影響那當然這個計劃比較大那希望部長全力來協助好不好我們覺得會全力來協助那也請求可以適度的轉達苗栗縣政府部長在計劃的原題方面也希望能夠配合部裡的一些要求基本上我們也是\n563359\t563599\t邱政軍委員\n","txt":"主席好,我們有請我們薛部長。請薛部長。好,邱仁好。部長好。我想請問一下,就是針對碳費的費率,那麼環團現在說每噸,他建議每噸是500,那我們政府傾向是300左右。那企業呢,初期建議,初期從100開始。那我想,我們部裡面現在的決定的金額是多少?\n給邱委員報告是不理我們不會去決定基本上是根據氣候法是由碳費會議審議委員會他們去\n審查那審查他們要用什麼方式呈現給環境部我們那時候再來做決定那我們的責任就是趕快把執法去做這個預告您的執法現在12項優先的執法我們現在已經完成7項還有5項還沒完成嘛對不對還有4項跟碳費相關的還沒有完成\n那我據我盤點過是我們至少還有15項的執法不是優先的啦是加起來都還沒有都還沒有一個確定的一個做法是不是啊這個有一些是準則我想我們都企業屬應該有持續在進行的\n我們昨天碳費第二次審查我們審議委員有提到環境部提供較為確實的法律架構才能進一步討論那部長您這個是您現在說急著要開始來執行的話這是會不會有問題\n我認同邱委員的一個看法就是說環境部應該更周全的來考量碳費這個包括起徵點因為這樣子會讓人家覺得我們是先設建再劃把這個到時候影響的問題會非常的大邱委員報告基本上就是說當然各部門的他應該有一些做任何事情都有一些規劃\n規劃我們也要考量實際的一個情況那現在的的確包括我們也都了解這個邱文也提到電價要上漲那所以環境部當然在碳費這一塊我們也會傳達給對因為這個部分我們在因應這個電價的再調漲之後再加上這個碳費的這個收入這個部分我想對於我們的企業或者是我們民間我們人民都這個影響是非常大的是\n另外我們有看到就是說\n我們台電現在就是虧損了大概4000億左右那如果照這個溫室氣體排放量的資訊平台的統計我們這個在這個111年發電量含排量大概1億零500萬噸那如果一噸300元計算一年將多支出300多億我看到我們的報告裡面是寫說我們的電費是\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n致電電廠那個要致電電廠要嗎對對對對所以臺電的不用是對因為這個因為他這個是公平的是原則因為他們是盈利臺電是配合政府的政策認同你不應該把這個他們有他們有已經有他他們的利潤了你不應該把這個他們的利潤然後又又提提高到更多然後讓我們人民來買單啊這樣是不行的謝謝邱委員的提醒\n對台灣而言我們長期也是要走碳稅\n那你幹嘛現在要走碳線?沒有沒有一定要有一個過渡時期因為我們目標是要減碳對環境部而言收取碳費絕對不是我們的最終目標我們的最終目標是符合2050淨零排放的這個大目標那你這段期間勒?對對你這段期間你還是用碳費當作一個工具\n你現在還是用碳費嘛?用碳費來收嘛?對不對?是,因為碳費可以專款專用。因為我知道碳費他是專款專用,如果是碳稅的話是到國家的大水庫去嘛。那等於就是說,碳費是我們環境部的私房錢?不能講,這個是公交的錢,不是私房錢。\n所以我覺得這筆錢的應用我們必須要有一個非常明確的一個作法。請問報告,七六法裡面都有列13項都已經很清楚被定義了。所以我想大概環境部也沒有額外的這個權限說想要再額外增加的項目。\n然後目前我們歐盟的CBAM的這個是對產品剋稅嘛那我們的碳費是針對企業組織是那所謂的這個CBAM初期的規劃產業當然不是我們台灣主要出口的項目啦我們日本跟美國也在評估類似的CBAM的做法那台灣要如何讓國際來承認我們的碳費機制\n事實上歐盟這一塊他們執行細節也沒有出來本來說7年底要出來也沒有去了所以我們現在做會不會到時候我們的做法不被國籍認同根據他們的母法不會應該會被認證只是我跟邱委員報告會不會像以前我們打高端一樣打了之後別的國家不認同我們要重打一次不過高端後來被證明效果非常好我個人也是打高端\n問題那時候也是造成國人的一個困擾嗎?對啊!有時候是媒體或者有一些不同觀點的人刻意去炒作的我個人一直對高端很有信心\n我們不講這個問題啦因為我們現在就一樣是講到這個我們擔心的是如果我們的高端我們的這個收費的、碳費的機制如果不被國際採納那我們有沒有什麼相應的作用給邱委員報告基本上就是說我們收費碳費跟西本不完全相等因為西本它是針對輸到碳那邊的產品那跟邱委員報告事實上經濟部\n議員會長\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n你大概講一下。我想基本上當然就是以減碳為主。它也要顧及包括公正轉型等等的這個議題。那我請問部長,就是我們有一項就是補助直轄市縣市主管機關執行溫室氣體減量工作事項。那這部分是指哪些?只有掛上同樣的相關字就符合嗎?\n事實上除了碳會之外我們也因應行政院通過一個調適變遷氣候變遷的一個計畫那個就是中央跟地方共同來合作所以這裡面氣候法也明確的在這邊講嘛那我們所以繳費的這個大戶的所在縣市有沒有特別的回饋\n這個補助的機制還可以有時間討論。希望部長到時候符合公平正義的一個原則。另外我再問一下,再給我一點時間。部長現在您看到我們最後一個有10項我們苗栗縣爭取很久的廢棄物處理的一個重大案件。\n這個部分我希望部長能夠協助苗栗縣來辦理因為剛剛也講到陳昭之委也有講到我們掩埋場的問題在去年我們苗栗市的焚化爐也是發生了大火但是那個部分因為以前是沒有做不透水布\n但是我覺得還是要處理那對環境還是會造成影響那當然這個計劃比較大那希望部長全力來協助好不好我們覺得會全力來協助那也請求可以適度的轉達苗栗縣政府部長在計劃的原題方面也希望能夠配合部裡的一些要求基本上我們也是\n邱政軍委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.573 --> 00:36.199\n主席好,我們有請我們薛部長。請薛部長。好,邱仁好。部長好。我想請問一下,就是針對碳費的費率,那麼環團現在說每噸,他建議每噸是500,那我們政府傾向是300左右。那企業呢,初期建議,初期從100開始。那我想,我們部裡面現在的決定的金額是多少?\n\n00:37.119 --> 00:43.367\n給邱委員報告是不理我們不會去決定基本上是根據氣候法是由碳費會議審議委員會他們去\n\n00:47.322 --> 01:04.678\n審查那審查他們要用什麼方式呈現給環境部我們那時候再來做決定那我們的責任就是趕快把執法去做這個預告您的執法現在12項優先的執法我們現在已經完成7項還有5項還沒完成嘛對不對還有4項跟碳費相關的還沒有完成\n\n01:08.581 --> 01:26.088\n那我據我盤點過是我們至少還有15項的執法不是優先的啦是加起來都還沒有都還沒有一個確定的一個做法是不是啊這個有一些是準則我想我們都企業屬應該有持續在進行的\n\n01:27.017 --> 01:40.683\n我們昨天碳費第二次審查我們審議委員有提到環境部提供較為確實的法律架構才能進一步討論那部長您這個是您現在說急著要開始來執行的話這是會不會有問題\n\n01:44.778 --> 02:06.708\n我認同邱委員的一個看法就是說環境部應該更周全的來考量碳費這個包括起徵點因為這樣子會讓人家覺得我們是先設建再劃把這個到時候影響的問題會非常的大邱委員報告基本上就是說當然各部門的他應該有一些做任何事情都有一些規劃\n\n02:08.830 --> 02:36.033\n規劃我們也要考量實際的一個情況那現在的的確包括我們也都了解這個邱文也提到電價要上漲那所以環境部當然在碳費這一塊我們也會傳達給對因為這個部分我們在因應這個電價的再調漲之後再加上這個碳費的這個收入這個部分我想對於我們的企業或者是我們民間我們人民都這個影響是非常大的是\n\n02:36.694 --> 02:39.000\n另外我們有看到就是說\n\n02:41.490 --> 03:04.778\n我們台電現在就是虧損了大概4000億左右那如果照這個溫室氣體排放量的資訊平台的統計我們這個在這個111年發電量含排量大概1億零500萬噸那如果一噸300元計算一年將多支出300多億我看到我們的報告裡面是寫說我們的電費是\n\n03:08.066 --> 03:12.370\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n03:29.424 --> 03:54.076\n致電電廠那個要致電電廠要嗎對對對對所以臺電的不用是對因為這個因為他這個是公平的是原則因為他們是盈利臺電是配合政府的政策認同你不應該把這個他們有他們有已經有他他們的利潤了你不應該把這個他們的利潤然後又又提提高到更多然後讓我們人民來買單啊這樣是不行的謝謝邱委員的提醒\n\n03:54.816 --> 03:56.257\n對台灣而言我們長期也是要走碳稅\n\n04:14.770 --> 04:33.348\n那你幹嘛現在要走碳線?沒有沒有一定要有一個過渡時期因為我們目標是要減碳對環境部而言收取碳費絕對不是我們的最終目標我們的最終目標是符合2050淨零排放的這個大目標那你這段期間勒?對對你這段期間你還是用碳費當作一個工具\n\n04:34.452 --> 04:54.746\n你現在還是用碳費嘛?用碳費來收嘛?對不對?是,因為碳費可以專款專用。因為我知道碳費他是專款專用,如果是碳稅的話是到國家的大水庫去嘛。那等於就是說,碳費是我們環境部的私房錢?不能講,這個是公交的錢,不是私房錢。\n\n04:57.048 --> 05:14.580\n所以我覺得這筆錢的應用我們必須要有一個非常明確的一個作法。請問報告,七六法裡面都有列13項都已經很清楚被定義了。所以我想大概環境部也沒有額外的這個權限說想要再額外增加的項目。\n\n05:14.980 --> 05:38.075\n然後目前我們歐盟的CBAM的這個是對產品剋稅嘛那我們的碳費是針對企業組織是那所謂的這個CBAM初期的規劃產業當然不是我們台灣主要出口的項目啦我們日本跟美國也在評估類似的CBAM的做法那台灣要如何讓國際來承認我們的碳費機制\n\n05:41.649 --> 06:04.358\n事實上歐盟這一塊他們執行細節也沒有出來本來說7年底要出來也沒有去了所以我們現在做會不會到時候我們的做法不被國籍認同根據他們的母法不會應該會被認證只是我跟邱委員報告會不會像以前我們打高端一樣打了之後別的國家不認同我們要重打一次不過高端後來被證明效果非常好我個人也是打高端\n\n06:05.358 --> 06:16.204\n問題那時候也是造成國人的一個困擾嗎?對啊!有時候是媒體或者有一些不同觀點的人刻意去炒作的我個人一直對高端很有信心\n\n06:17.268 --> 06:40.848\n我們不講這個問題啦因為我們現在就一樣是講到這個我們擔心的是如果我們的高端我們的這個收費的、碳費的機制如果不被國際採納那我們有沒有什麼相應的作用給邱委員報告基本上就是說我們收費碳費跟西本不完全相等因為西本它是針對輸到碳那邊的產品那跟邱委員報告事實上經濟部\n\n07:05.484 --> 07:08.405\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n07:30.680 --> 07:56.099\n你大概講一下。我想基本上當然就是以減碳為主。它也要顧及包括公正轉型等等的這個議題。那我請問部長,就是我們有一項就是補助直轄市縣市主管機關執行溫室氣體減量工作事項。那這部分是指哪些?只有掛上同樣的相關字就符合嗎?\n\n07:56.519 --> 08:17.347\n事實上除了碳會之外我們也因應行政院通過一個調適變遷氣候變遷的一個計畫那個就是中央跟地方共同來合作所以這裡面氣候法也明確的在這邊講嘛那我們所以繳費的這個大戶的所在縣市有沒有特別的回饋\n\n08:19.994 --> 08:37.399\n這個補助的機制還可以有時間討論。希望部長到時候符合公平正義的一個原則。另外我再問一下,再給我一點時間。部長現在您看到我們最後一個有10項我們苗栗縣爭取很久的廢棄物處理的一個重大案件。\n\n08:42.336 --> 09:00.281\n這個部分我希望部長能夠協助苗栗縣來辦理因為剛剛也講到陳昭之委也有講到我們掩埋場的問題在去年我們苗栗市的焚化爐也是發生了大火但是那個部分因為以前是沒有做不透水布\n\n09:01.241 --> 09:22.999\n但是我覺得還是要處理那對環境還是會造成影響那當然這個計劃比較大那希望部長全力來協助好不好我們覺得會全力來協助那也請求可以適度的轉達苗栗縣政府部長在計劃的原題方面也希望能夠配合部裡的一些要求基本上我們也是\n\n09:23.359 --> 09:23.599\n邱政軍委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.573,"end":36.199,"text":"主席好,我們有請我們薛部長。請薛部長。好,邱仁好。部長好。我想請問一下,就是針對碳費的費率,那麼環團現在說每噸,他建議每噸是500,那我們政府傾向是300左右。那企業呢,初期建議,初期從100開始。那我想,我們部裡面現在的決定的金額是多少?"},{"start":37.119,"end":43.367,"text":"給邱委員報告是不理我們不會去決定基本上是根據氣候法是由碳費會議審議委員會他們去"},{"start":47.322,"end":64.678,"text":"審查那審查他們要用什麼方式呈現給環境部我們那時候再來做決定那我們的責任就是趕快把執法去做這個預告您的執法現在12項優先的執法我們現在已經完成7項還有5項還沒完成嘛對不對還有4項跟碳費相關的還沒有完成"},{"start":68.581,"end":86.088,"text":"那我據我盤點過是我們至少還有15項的執法不是優先的啦是加起來都還沒有都還沒有一個確定的一個做法是不是啊這個有一些是準則我想我們都企業屬應該有持續在進行的"},{"start":87.017,"end":100.683,"text":"我們昨天碳費第二次審查我們審議委員有提到環境部提供較為確實的法律架構才能進一步討論那部長您這個是您現在說急著要開始來執行的話這是會不會有問題"},{"start":104.778,"end":126.708,"text":"我認同邱委員的一個看法就是說環境部應該更周全的來考量碳費這個包括起徵點因為這樣子會讓人家覺得我們是先設建再劃把這個到時候影響的問題會非常的大邱委員報告基本上就是說當然各部門的他應該有一些做任何事情都有一些規劃"},{"start":128.83,"end":156.033,"text":"規劃我們也要考量實際的一個情況那現在的的確包括我們也都了解這個邱文也提到電價要上漲那所以環境部當然在碳費這一塊我們也會傳達給對因為這個部分我們在因應這個電價的再調漲之後再加上這個碳費的這個收入這個部分我想對於我們的企業或者是我們民間我們人民都這個影響是非常大的是"},{"start":156.694,"end":159,"text":"另外我們有看到就是說"},{"start":161.49,"end":184.778,"text":"我們台電現在就是虧損了大概4000億左右那如果照這個溫室氣體排放量的資訊平台的統計我們這個在這個111年發電量含排量大概1億零500萬噸那如果一噸300元計算一年將多支出300多億我看到我們的報告裡面是寫說我們的電費是"},{"start":188.066,"end":192.37,"text":"含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":209.424,"end":234.076,"text":"致電電廠那個要致電電廠要嗎對對對對所以臺電的不用是對因為這個因為他這個是公平的是原則因為他們是盈利臺電是配合政府的政策認同你不應該把這個他們有他們有已經有他他們的利潤了你不應該把這個他們的利潤然後又又提提高到更多然後讓我們人民來買單啊這樣是不行的謝謝邱委員的提醒"},{"start":234.816,"end":236.257,"text":"對台灣而言我們長期也是要走碳稅"},{"start":254.77,"end":273.348,"text":"那你幹嘛現在要走碳線?沒有沒有一定要有一個過渡時期因為我們目標是要減碳對環境部而言收取碳費絕對不是我們的最終目標我們的最終目標是符合2050淨零排放的這個大目標那你這段期間勒?對對你這段期間你還是用碳費當作一個工具"},{"start":274.452,"end":294.746,"text":"你現在還是用碳費嘛?用碳費來收嘛?對不對?是,因為碳費可以專款專用。因為我知道碳費他是專款專用,如果是碳稅的話是到國家的大水庫去嘛。那等於就是說,碳費是我們環境部的私房錢?不能講,這個是公交的錢,不是私房錢。"},{"start":297.048,"end":314.58,"text":"所以我覺得這筆錢的應用我們必須要有一個非常明確的一個作法。請問報告,七六法裡面都有列13項都已經很清楚被定義了。所以我想大概環境部也沒有額外的這個權限說想要再額外增加的項目。"},{"start":314.98,"end":338.075,"text":"然後目前我們歐盟的CBAM的這個是對產品剋稅嘛那我們的碳費是針對企業組織是那所謂的這個CBAM初期的規劃產業當然不是我們台灣主要出口的項目啦我們日本跟美國也在評估類似的CBAM的做法那台灣要如何讓國際來承認我們的碳費機制"},{"start":341.649,"end":364.358,"text":"事實上歐盟這一塊他們執行細節也沒有出來本來說7年底要出來也沒有去了所以我們現在做會不會到時候我們的做法不被國籍認同根據他們的母法不會應該會被認證只是我跟邱委員報告會不會像以前我們打高端一樣打了之後別的國家不認同我們要重打一次不過高端後來被證明效果非常好我個人也是打高端"},{"start":365.358,"end":376.204,"text":"問題那時候也是造成國人的一個困擾嗎?對啊!有時候是媒體或者有一些不同觀點的人刻意去炒作的我個人一直對高端很有信心"},{"start":377.268,"end":400.848,"text":"我們不講這個問題啦因為我們現在就一樣是講到這個我們擔心的是如果我們的高端我們的這個收費的、碳費的機制如果不被國際採納那我們有沒有什麼相應的作用給邱委員報告基本上就是說我們收費碳費跟西本不完全相等因為西本它是針對輸到碳那邊的產品那跟邱委員報告事實上經濟部"},{"start":402.312,"end":424.514,"text":"議員會長"},{"start":425.484,"end":428.405,"text":"含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":450.68,"end":476.099,"text":"你大概講一下。我想基本上當然就是以減碳為主。它也要顧及包括公正轉型等等的這個議題。那我請問部長,就是我們有一項就是補助直轄市縣市主管機關執行溫室氣體減量工作事項。那這部分是指哪些?只有掛上同樣的相關字就符合嗎?"},{"start":476.519,"end":497.347,"text":"事實上除了碳會之外我們也因應行政院通過一個調適變遷氣候變遷的一個計畫那個就是中央跟地方共同來合作所以這裡面氣候法也明確的在這邊講嘛那我們所以繳費的這個大戶的所在縣市有沒有特別的回饋"},{"start":499.994,"end":517.399,"text":"這個補助的機制還可以有時間討論。希望部長到時候符合公平正義的一個原則。另外我再問一下,再給我一點時間。部長現在您看到我們最後一個有10項我們苗栗縣爭取很久的廢棄物處理的一個重大案件。"},{"start":522.336,"end":540.281,"text":"這個部分我希望部長能夠協助苗栗縣來辦理因為剛剛也講到陳昭之委也有講到我們掩埋場的問題在去年我們苗栗市的焚化爐也是發生了大火但是那個部分因為以前是沒有做不透水布"},{"start":541.241,"end":562.999,"text":"但是我覺得還是要處理那對環境還是會造成影響那當然這個計劃比較大那希望部長全力來協助好不好我們覺得會全力來協助那也請求可以適度的轉達苗栗縣政府部長在計劃的原題方面也希望能夠配合部裡的一些要求基本上我們也是"},{"start":563.359,"end":563.599,"text":"邱政軍委員"}]}}}}