{"id":150460,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150460","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d555be497a35ee4843f9597c3f3f044368f8ba9b0039caa7a6e86ae137a36932bf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"10:12:17 - 10:23:32","影片長度":"00:11:15","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長報告「國軍無人機運用的現況及發展」，併請行政院國土安全辦公室列席，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":675,"end_time":"2024-03-27T10:23:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T10:12:17+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":323,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時12分）謝謝主席。主席，有請邱部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["邱部長國正：林委員好！"],["林委員楚茵：部長好！有關於我們今天所排定的無人機部分，我想首先要詢問的就是因為在國安相關法規之下，我們現在所有軍事的部分、重要的基礎建設都希望能夠去除紅色供應鏈，當然無人機更是如此，因為它都是遠端遙控的部分，那麼在我們無人機現在採購的過程當中又或者是我們所有軍用商規無人機目前在採購的部分、在驗收的部分如何確保真正去除紅色供應鏈？因為它也許是在這個過程當中，就像之前我們看到的，未來的賴清德總統在參觀的時候就發現，居然有一顆馬達上面寫著MIC，那麼會不會有可能在其中的某些零組件一樣是來自中國？我們在採購及驗收的過程當中如何確保交機真的是去除紅色供應鏈？"],["邱部長國正：跟委員簡單報告，為了要防止這個問題發生，我們現在從採購的編組開始，以往採購人員是單一的，就是採購人員對他的採購對象，我現在要求採購的話，這是個組織的問題，裡面不能夠犯錯，能不能打開來檢查，會有這個問題，現在我們的人員一擴大編組以後會造成一個現象，就造成人家一個心態，一編組以後，要經過他、經過他、經過他，都要經過檢驗，很麻煩，所以他們要遮蔽，以前會發生這種問題就因為編組可能沒有注意到或者為便宜行事，就他用他直接的方法，所以就造成問題，但現在我們國防部的採購方法用這個編組以後，我們儘量把這些問題給排除掉，所以最近有些發生的問題，不管陸製的或什麼問題，是我們自己檢查的時候發覺的，但我絕對不因此而推託說我們的管道有用，我們要持續努力，避免這種事情發生。"],["林委員楚茵：好，部長，我想問的就是在這樣採購的關鍵當中，如何來區分是關鍵的技術，那絕對是要去除紅色供應鏈，但如果不是關鍵技術，比如像馬達，您認為是關鍵技術嗎？"],["邱部長國正：我覺得馬達也蠻關鍵的，馬達雖然各國都有，但是它專用的馬達可能不一樣。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以本席要強調的是，您剛剛所講的，不論是擴大編組又或者是專業人才、專業資訊的取得上希望能夠更加的謹慎，因為報導所說的，同一間廠商在去年9月就說半年內會開發出取代中國製的供應鏈，現在剛好是半年，就您所知或者其他長官可以協助回復，目前我們已經獲得了足以取代中國供應鏈的實力了嗎？"],["趙主任亞平：委員好！我是國防採購室主任。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["趙主任亞平：委員剛剛所問的就是紅色供應鏈，不管是紅色供應鏈或是我們產品的採購交裝，我們是全面禁止陸製品、百分之百禁止陸製品，不只是一個馬達，或者我們限制哪些陸製品可以、哪些陸製品不可以，我們是全面禁止。","有關於驗收的部分，我這邊再補充跟委員報告，其實我們在整個防止……"],["林委員楚茵：驗收的過程有沒有可能把MIC這幾個字……"],["趙主任亞平：都有、都有。"],["林委員楚茵：把它遮蔽或刮掉……"],["趙主任亞平：喔！不行。"],["林委員楚茵：或是用別的方式來取代？"],["趙主任亞平：這個不行。"],["林委員楚茵：這個你們在驗收的過程當中都可以發現，沒有問題？"],["趙主任亞平：我們驗收一定會查，第一個，我們看廠商交的文件，還有他的實品……"],["林委員楚茵：那如果有一個狀況是，從中國出去洗產地，然後再回來臺灣呢？"],["趙主任亞平：基本上我們是看他的進口報單，以進口報單的產地為準。"],["林委員楚茵：產地？"],["趙主任亞平：是的。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。接下來要詢問部長的是有關於今天在報告中特別提到的，從俄烏戰爭之後瞭解到無人機戰隊非常重要，在未來訓練的部分只稍微寫了短短幾行：「規劃成立無人機訓練中心」，那麼這樣的一個無人機訓練中心是依現有的國軍人力來做編組，還是接下來我們會擴充成為一個真正的無人機戰隊，這個方向到底是怎麼樣？因為我們知道，如果就今天的報告會發現，其實無人機有非常不同的作用、功用，包括有監偵的，也有近距離的，這個戰隊、無人機訓練中心如何來運作？在配置上又是一個什麼樣的配置？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，我們這個專班的形成，人員是很重要的，但人才的來源不光是現有的，剛剛委員講的無人機操控，它的條件要具備什麼？曾經對飛行有經驗的更好，所以我們有很多從軍中退的、年齡大一點的人，他如果操控無人機就沒有受到年齡的限制……"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["邱部長國正：比較起來，他服務的年齡可以大一點，所以我們從多元管道，有些年輕人在這一方面本來就很有興趣，而且也很專業，我們把這個人招來了以後成立班隊，我想效果是更好的。"],["林委員楚茵：所以這個無人機的訓練中心，在這個班隊當中，它現在會變成是一個獨立出來的無人機戰隊、編隊嗎？"],["邱部長國正：它雖然獨立，但它的任務是為國軍的，人員的來源可能自其他管道、各方都有……"],["林委員楚茵：言下之意，它是一個訓練中心，它只是作為其他軍種所需要的一個教育訓練單位？還是說這樣的一個無人機訓練中心之後會成為無人機的新戰隊、編隊？"],["陳參謀長建義：委員好！我是陸軍司令部參謀長，就您剛剛的提詢簡要的報告。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["陳參謀長建義：其實三軍的無人機運用各有不同，就如今天專報裡面所載，有戰術型的，還有我們基層部隊監偵型的，使用一、二類的，實際上無人機中心在現行各軍種裡面、教育班隊裡面，都有依據軍種建案開設相關的班隊，委員所提的戰隊概念，我大概從我們軍事上來跟委員報告，我們任何一個國軍單位的成立，都有平時任務跟戰時任務，平時任務當然就是以訓練為主，戰時的專業人力會擴充到部隊這方面實戰上的需求，以上報告。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝您的回復，我會這樣問是因為，目前我們軍用商規的無人機大概有三千多臺，到底有沒有人能夠操作？這就是為什麼我在關心這個無人機的訓練中心。以下的需求我就不多念了，我只想要詢問，除了陸用的監偵型外，其他的都會在年底前取得嗎？有多少國軍擁有這些證照可以來做相關訓練，能夠搭配上訓練中心跟我們現有的、軍方採購的三千多架無人機？在這兩者之間，我們有足夠的人力、人員訓練能夠及時使用嗎？"],["邱部長國正：是，我跟委員報告，就是逐年、逐年，不是目前有三千多架這麼多，這有一個計劃期程……"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["邱部長國正：但我們任何一個計畫在推動上不光是器械的問題，連同人員怎麼培訓都是搭配的，所以我們知道的是這樣，空軍的飛行員跟飛機駕駛有關，它有一個座艙比，我想我們的無人機也可以朝這方面來做思考，這樣有一個目標，譬如說將來有兩架無人機，可能要3個人來做操控、1個備便，朝這方面去努力的話，我想按照期程是可以達到的。"],["林委員楚茵：好，言下之意就是，我們現在無人機的訓練中心在規劃當中、在啟用當中，一年打算訓練多少的無人機操作手？在這樣的計畫當中，是不是能夠因應現在對於無人機的各種需求？不論是監偵或者是防禦，甚至於攻擊型的，其實就像部長所說的，它所需要的技術能量其實是不一樣的。"],["邱部長國正：對，我跟委員報告，這就是一個期望，目標既然出來了，人數的多寡也已經在搭配這個目標、配合在做，而且來源我剛剛也講了，不光是軍中這些人員，從外面來的，我們都把他當作招募、招訓的對象。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我其實想問的是，有沒有具體精確的數字？包括國軍現在可以操作的操作手有多少人？跟我們現有無人機搭配的比例是多少？就像您剛剛講的，可能一臺無人機是兩到三位，到底現在擁有證照、真的可以來做操作手、真的發生戰事或是現在就要上線使用時他能夠真的上線、使用操作無人機的比例是多少？"],["邱部長國正：我請顏次長跟您做說明。"],["顏次長有賢：報告委員，現在大概有三型，包含陸軍近程的，還有海軍的，不管是紅雀跟紅隼等等，剛剛我們部長有跟委員提到，我們現在有一個編現比在那邊，他操作是一個整套系統來講……"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["顏次長有賢：現在這三型加起來是兩百一十幾個人，滿足我們現在所有的需求，所以具有合格專長的幾乎都超過百分之百，這部分跟委員做一個說明，我們目前是沒有問題。"],["林委員楚茵：好，最後是有關於操作的訓練中心，接下來有沒有什麼樣的目標？在人員訓練的部分。"],["邱部長國正：我剛剛有跟委員概略報告，我們的無人機獲得多少，人員就訓出多少，這是我們最基本的目標。"],["林委員楚茵：好。"],["邱部長國正：而且進一步……"],["林委員楚茵：就是會搭配我們……"],["邱部長國正：一定會搭配，而且……"],["林委員楚茵：以交貨到部隊上的無人機數目來做搭配……"],["邱部長國正：對，一定會這樣的，搭配以外……"],["林委員楚茵：而且操作手會多於無人機？"],["邱部長國正：對，沒有錯。操作手要多於無人機，我們要看嘛！我們期望是這樣子，但一定是讓無人機的操作絕對沒有顧慮，不會隨便抓一個人來操作，都是經過訓練的。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，各位請回。跟林楚茵委員還有本會委員以及國防部的同仁們報告，有關軍品的採購，在2022年5月21號，當時本席提案修正國安法，如果提供中國製的軍品的話，以往都是用採購法，只有用101條款撤銷它的資格，從那個三讀通過之後，如果交付中國相關的零組件時，是一年以上到三年以下有期徒刑；計畫到外面去做，把我們的技術拿到港澳、中國去做，是七年以上十年以下，還要併科罰金5,000萬，以往沒有刑罰，現在有刑罰。謝謝楚茵委員剛才提這個，我也要提醒國防部，對於一些新進，特別是商規軍用，他們可能不懂，以為反正就違規了，被你罰錢、取消資格而已，會關喔！現在是要抓去關的，透過告知去避免這個情形，一些舊的供應鏈廠商可能已經知道，新的可能不曉得，所以這部分本席這邊做提醒。","接下來進行詢答的委員是沈伯洋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":150,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-9","speakers":["王定宇","黃仁","羅美玲","徐巧芯","林楚茵","沈伯洋","洪申翰","陳永康","陳冠廷","馬文君","林德福","羅智強","鍾佳濱","賴士葆","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","張啓楷","王鴻薇"],"page_start":95,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132001_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告「國軍無人機運用的現況及發展」，併請行政院國土安全辦公室列席，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1132001_00016"}},"transcript":{"id":"15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19:14:28","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 19:16:56","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150460 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:16:56","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長報告「國軍無人機運用的現況及發展」，併請行政院國土安全辦公室列席，並備質詢。）\n發言委員：林楚茵'"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:17:16","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:17:16","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 0.45, \"end\": 6.899, \"text\": \"謝謝主席,主席有請邱部長。好,部長請。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 0.45, \"end\": 0.611, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 0.611, \"end\": 0.891, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 0.891, \"end\": 1.011, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 1.011, \"end\": 1.111, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1.111, \"end\": 1.412, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": 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\"馬達我覺得也蠻關鍵的馬達雖然各國都有但是它專用的馬達可能不一樣所以本期要強調的是在您剛剛所講的不論是擴大編組又或者是專業人才或是專業資訊的取得上面希望能夠更加的謹慎因為我們在報導所說的在同一間廠商在去年9月的時候就是說半年內會開發出取代中國製的供應鏈\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 157.5, \"end\": 157.54, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 157.54, \"end\": 157.64, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 157.64, \"end\": 157.66, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"蠻\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"鍵\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 157.66, \"end\": 157.68, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 157.68, \"end\": 157.7, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 157.7, \"end\": 157.72, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 157.72, \"end\": 157.74, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 157.74, \"end\": 157.88, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 157.88, \"end\": 157.9, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 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\"強\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 158.401, \"end\": 158.461, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 158.461, \"end\": 158.481, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 158.481, \"end\": 158.501, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 158.501, \"end\": 158.521, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 158.521, \"end\": 158.641, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 158.641, \"end\": 158.721, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 158.721, \"end\": 158.741, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 158.741, \"end\": 158.821, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"擴\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 158.821, \"end\": 158.841, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 158.841, \"end\": 158.981, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 158.981, \"end\": 159.001, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 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0.683}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 195.152, \"end\": 195.393, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 195.393, \"end\": 195.413, \"score\": 0.26}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 195.413, \"end\": 195.653, \"score\": 0.633}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"鏈\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 195.653, \"end\": 195.673, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 195.673, \"end\": 195.693, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 195.693, \"end\": 195.853, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 195.853, \"end\": 195.873, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 200.706, \"end\": 229.689, \"text\": \"委員好我是國防採購室主任有關剛剛委員所問的就是紅色供應鏈不管是紅色供應鏈或是說我們這個產品的這個採購膠裝我們是全面禁止這個錄製品百分之百禁止錄製品不只是說一個馬達或者說我們把限制說哪些是錄製品可以哪些是錄製品不可以我們是全面禁止那有關剛剛驗收的部分我這邊再補充跟委員報告其實我們在整個驗收的過程我們在整個防治\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 200.706, \"end\": 200.906, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, 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0.849}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 672.405, \"end\": 672.425, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"訓\"}, {\"word\": \"練\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 672.425, \"end\": 672.445, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,450 --> 00:00:06,899\n謝謝主席,主席有請邱部長。好,部長請。\n\n2\n00:00:12,779 --> 00:00:29,932\n林委員好部長好有關於我們今天所排定的無人機的部分我想首先要詢問的就是因為在國安相關法規之下我們現在所有的軍事的部分其實重要的基礎建設我們都希望能夠去除紅色供應鏈\n\n3\n00:00:31,093 --> 00:00:58,399\n不過當然無人機更是如此因為它都是遠端遙控的部分那麼在我們無人機現在採購的過程當中又或者是說我們所有這個軍用的商規無人機那麼目前在採購的部分在驗收的部分我們如何確保真正的是去除紅色供應鏈因為它也許是在這個過程當中就像之前我們看到的\n\n4\n00:00:59,319 --> 00:01:17,793\n未來的賴清德總統在參觀的時候就發現雖然有一顆馬達上面寫著MIC那麼會不會有可能在其中的某些零組件當中他一樣是來自中國那我們在採購跟驗收的過程當中如何確保交機真的是去除紅色供應鏈\n\n5\n00:01:18,749 --> 00:01:27,172\n我跟委員前面報告為了要防止這個問題發生我們就要從採購的邊阻開始所以以往採購人員單一的我採購人員對他的採購的對象我現在要求你採購的話這是個組織的問題裡面要有不能夠犯的錯能不能打開來檢查會有這個問題所以我們人員擴大邊阻了以後會造成一個現象\n\n6\n00:01:45,857 --> 00:01:46,217\n李卓人議員\n\n7\n00:02:03,726 --> 00:02:23,852\n但我們現在國防部採購方法用這個編輯了以後,我們來盡量把這個問題給排除掉。所以最近有一些發生問題,不管錄製的或什麼,是我們自己檢查的時候發覺的。但我覺得不因此而推脫,想說哎呀,我們好像這個管道還是很有用,我們要持續努力。\n\n8\n00:02:24,212 --> 00:02:35,892\n好部長我想問的就是在這樣的採購的關鍵當中如何來區分是關鍵的技術那絕對是要去除紅色供應鏈但如果說不是關鍵技術比如像馬達您認為是關鍵技術嗎\n\n9\n00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:42,244\n馬達我覺得也蠻關鍵的馬達雖然各國都有但是它專用的馬達可能不一樣所以本期要強調的是在您剛剛所講的不論是擴大編組又或者是專業人才或是專業資訊的取得上面希望能夠更加的謹慎因為我們在報導所說的在同一間廠商在去年9月的時候就是說半年內會開發出取代中國製的供應鏈\n\n10\n00:03:03,641 --> 00:03:15,873\n那麼像現在剛好是半年喔,若就您所知或者是其他的長官可以協助回覆的,那麼現在目前在這個部分我們已經獲得了足以取代中國供應鏈的這樣的實力了嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:20,706 --> 00:03:49,689\n委員好我是國防採購室主任有關剛剛委員所問的就是紅色供應鏈不管是紅色供應鏈或是說我們這個產品的這個採購膠裝我們是全面禁止這個錄製品百分之百禁止錄製品不只是說一個馬達或者說我們把限制說哪些是錄製品可以哪些是錄製品不可以我們是全面禁止那有關剛剛驗收的部分我這邊再補充跟委員報告其實我們在整個驗收的過程我們在整個防治\n\n12\n00:04:21,451 --> 00:04:42,643\n接下來要詢問部長的是有關於今天在報告特別提到從俄烏戰爭之後其實了解到無人機的戰隊非常的重要那麼在未來的訓練的部分只稍微短短的幾行寫了成立所謂的無人機訓練中心那麼這樣的一個無人機訓練中心是依現有的國軍的人力來做編組\n\n13\n00:04:43,824 --> 00:05:11,314\n還是說接下來我們會擴充成為一個真正的無人機戰隊那這個方向到底是怎麼樣因為我們知道其實無人機如果就今天的報告會發現它有非常不同的作用、功用包括有兼真的但是也有近距離的那麼如何把這個戰隊把它這個無人機的訓練中心如何來運作那麼在配置上面又是一個什麼樣的配置\n\n14\n00:05:12,830 --> 00:05:30,233\n我跟委員報告,我們這個專班的一個行程,這個人員是個很重要的,但人員的來源,人才來源,不是光只有現有的。剛剛委員講這個無人機操控,它的條件要具備什麼?曾經對飛行方面要有經驗的話,條件更好。\n\n15\n00:05:30,894 --> 00:05:53,925\n所以我們有很多從軍中退的雖然年齡大一點的人但他如果操控無人機的話他沒有受到這個年齡的限制你講他這個服務的年齡可以大一點所以我們從多元管道有些年輕人在這方面本來就很有興趣而且也很專業的我們把這些人招來了以後那成立這個班隊啊我講是效果是更好的\n\n16\n00:05:54,045 --> 00:06:19,473\n所以這個無人機的訓練中心在這個班對他當中他現在會變成是一個獨立出來的一個無人機的戰隊嗎編隊嗎他算獨立但他的任務是為國軍的但人民的來源可能就其他管道各方都有所以言下之意他是一個訓練中心他只是作為其他軍種所需要的一個訓練的\n\n17\n00:06:21,614 --> 00:06:30,518\n教育訓練的單位還是說這樣的一個無人機訓練中心之後出來他會成為一個無人機的新的戰隊編隊\n\n18\n00:06:34,810 --> 00:06:52,926\n委員好,我是陸軍事務部常務長。我就您剛剛的提詢簡要的報告。其實在三軍的無人機運用,它各有不同。就如今這個專報裡面,有戰術型的,還有我們基層部隊,兼征型的,使用一二類的。\n\n19\n00:06:54,388 --> 00:07:23,107\n無人機中心實際上在現行在各軍種裡面他的教育班隊裡面都有依據他軍種的建案來開設相關的班隊委員所提的一個戰隊這個概念我大概用我們軍事上來跟委員報告我們任何一個國軍單位的成立都有平時任務跟暫時任務那平時任務當然就是以訓練為主那暫時這些專業的人力他會去擴充到部隊在這方面的實戰上的需求以上的報告\n\n20\n00:07:23,587 --> 00:07:44,437\n好謝謝您的回覆我會這樣子問是因為目前我們軍用商規的無人機大概有3000多台那麼到底有沒有人能夠操作就是為什麼我在關心這個無人機的訓練中心以下這個需求呢我就不多念了我只想要詢問的是那麼像除了陸用的針氈型外其他的都會在年底前會取得嗎\n\n21\n00:07:45,970 --> 00:08:01,499\n那麼那有多少國軍擁有這些證照可以來做這個訓練能夠搭配的上就是訓練中心跟我們現有的軍方所採購的3000多家的無人機在這兩者之間我們有足夠的人力人員訓練能夠及時的來使用嗎\n\n22\n00:08:04,881 --> 00:08:31,773\n我跟委員報告,這是逐年逐年,這30多架不講,目前有那麼多,這上面有一個計劃期程,但我們任何一個計劃在推動上,它不光是這個器械的問題,連同人員怎麼培訓,都是搭配的,所以我們知道空軍飛行員跟飛機架車有關,它有個座艙比,我想我們的無人機也可以朝這一方面來做一個思考,將來有個目標,\n\n23\n00:08:33,214 --> 00:08:43,022\n將來譬如說有兩架無人機可能要三個人來做一個操控一個備變朝這方面去努力的話我想按照期程可以達到的\n\n24\n00:08:44,090 --> 00:09:10,423\n好,言下之意就是我們現在的無人機的訓練中心他在規劃當中在啟用當中一年打算訓練多少的所謂無人機的操作手那麼在這樣的計劃當中是不是能夠因應得上現在對於無人機的各種的需求不論是兼征或者是防禦甚至於攻擊型的他其實就像部長所說的他所需要的技術能量其實是不一樣的\n\n25\n00:09:11,681 --> 00:09:14,282\n其實想問的是有沒有具體精確的數字包括國軍現在有可以操作的操作手有多少人\n\n26\n00:09:34,594 --> 00:09:57,489\n那麼跟我們現有的這些無人機的搭配的比例是多少?比如像您剛講的可能一台無人機是兩到三位那麼現在到底是比例上面擁有證照真的可以來做操作手能夠真的發生戰事或是現在我們就要上線使用的時候他能夠真的上線能夠使用操作無人機的\n\n27\n00:09:58,427 --> 00:10:00,168\n我請蓮耀市長跟您做說明\n\n28\n00:10:28,667 --> 00:10:40,175\n好那最後一個答案那就是所以我們的這個有關於操作的訓練中心接下來那麼有沒有什麼樣的一個目標就是在人員訓練的部分\n\n29\n00:10:41,837 --> 00:11:01,095\n我剛剛有跟委員蓋報告,我們這無人機獲得多少,人員計劃迅速多少,這是我最基本的目標。而且再進一步的話,就是會搭配我們所交貨的到部隊上面的這些無人機的數目來做搭配。而且操作手會多於無人機。對,沒有錯。\n\n30\n00:11:02,676 --> 00:11:12,445\n操作手要多於無人機我們要看嘛我們期望這樣子但一定是讓無人機操作是絕對沒有顧慮不會抓個人來操作都是經過訓練的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n450\t6899\t謝謝主席,主席有請邱部長。好,部長請。\n12779\t29932\t林委員好部長好有關於我們今天所排定的無人機的部分我想首先要詢問的就是因為在國安相關法規之下我們現在所有的軍事的部分其實重要的基礎建設我們都希望能夠去除紅色供應鏈\n31093\t58399\t不過當然無人機更是如此因為它都是遠端遙控的部分那麼在我們無人機現在採購的過程當中又或者是說我們所有這個軍用的商規無人機那麼目前在採購的部分在驗收的部分我們如何確保真正的是去除紅色供應鏈因為它也許是在這個過程當中就像之前我們看到的\n59319\t77793\t未來的賴清德總統在參觀的時候就發現雖然有一顆馬達上面寫著MIC那麼會不會有可能在其中的某些零組件當中他一樣是來自中國那我們在採購跟驗收的過程當中如何確保交機真的是去除紅色供應鏈\n78749\t87172\t我跟委員前面報告為了要防止這個問題發生我們就要從採購的邊阻開始所以以往採購人員單一的我採購人員對他的採購的對象我現在要求你採購的話這是個組織的問題裡面要有不能夠犯的錯能不能打開來檢查會有這個問題所以我們人員擴大邊阻了以後會造成一個現象\n105857\t106217\t李卓人議員\n123726\t143852\t但我們現在國防部採購方法用這個編輯了以後,我們來盡量把這個問題給排除掉。所以最近有一些發生問題,不管錄製的或什麼,是我們自己檢查的時候發覺的。但我覺得不因此而推脫,想說哎呀,我們好像這個管道還是很有用,我們要持續努力。\n144212\t155892\t好部長我想問的就是在這樣的採購的關鍵當中如何來區分是關鍵的技術那絕對是要去除紅色供應鏈但如果說不是關鍵技術比如像馬達您認為是關鍵技術嗎\n157500\t162244\t馬達我覺得也蠻關鍵的馬達雖然各國都有但是它專用的馬達可能不一樣所以本期要強調的是在您剛剛所講的不論是擴大編組又或者是專業人才或是專業資訊的取得上面希望能夠更加的謹慎因為我們在報導所說的在同一間廠商在去年9月的時候就是說半年內會開發出取代中國製的供應鏈\n183641\t195873\t那麼像現在剛好是半年喔,若就您所知或者是其他的長官可以協助回覆的,那麼現在目前在這個部分我們已經獲得了足以取代中國供應鏈的這樣的實力了嗎?\n200706\t229689\t委員好我是國防採購室主任有關剛剛委員所問的就是紅色供應鏈不管是紅色供應鏈或是說我們這個產品的這個採購膠裝我們是全面禁止這個錄製品百分之百禁止錄製品不只是說一個馬達或者說我們把限制說哪些是錄製品可以哪些是錄製品不可以我們是全面禁止那有關剛剛驗收的部分我這邊再補充跟委員報告其實我們在整個驗收的過程我們在整個防治\n230350\t260350\t蘇貝爾議員\n261451\t282643\t接下來要詢問部長的是有關於今天在報告特別提到從俄烏戰爭之後其實了解到無人機的戰隊非常的重要那麼在未來的訓練的部分只稍微短短的幾行寫了成立所謂的無人機訓練中心那麼這樣的一個無人機訓練中心是依現有的國軍的人力來做編組\n283824\t311314\t還是說接下來我們會擴充成為一個真正的無人機戰隊那這個方向到底是怎麼樣因為我們知道其實無人機如果就今天的報告會發現它有非常不同的作用、功用包括有兼真的但是也有近距離的那麼如何把這個戰隊把它這個無人機的訓練中心如何來運作那麼在配置上面又是一個什麼樣的配置\n312830\t330233\t我跟委員報告,我們這個專班的一個行程,這個人員是個很重要的,但人員的來源,人才來源,不是光只有現有的。剛剛委員講這個無人機操控,它的條件要具備什麼?曾經對飛行方面要有經驗的話,條件更好。\n330894\t353925\t所以我們有很多從軍中退的雖然年齡大一點的人但他如果操控無人機的話他沒有受到這個年齡的限制你講他這個服務的年齡可以大一點所以我們從多元管道有些年輕人在這方面本來就很有興趣而且也很專業的我們把這些人招來了以後那成立這個班隊啊我講是效果是更好的\n354045\t379473\t所以這個無人機的訓練中心在這個班對他當中他現在會變成是一個獨立出來的一個無人機的戰隊嗎編隊嗎他算獨立但他的任務是為國軍的但人民的來源可能就其他管道各方都有所以言下之意他是一個訓練中心他只是作為其他軍種所需要的一個訓練的\n381614\t390518\t教育訓練的單位還是說這樣的一個無人機訓練中心之後出來他會成為一個無人機的新的戰隊編隊\n394810\t412926\t委員好,我是陸軍事務部常務長。我就您剛剛的提詢簡要的報告。其實在三軍的無人機運用,它各有不同。就如今這個專報裡面,有戰術型的,還有我們基層部隊,兼征型的,使用一二類的。\n414388\t443107\t無人機中心實際上在現行在各軍種裡面他的教育班隊裡面都有依據他軍種的建案來開設相關的班隊委員所提的一個戰隊這個概念我大概用我們軍事上來跟委員報告我們任何一個國軍單位的成立都有平時任務跟暫時任務那平時任務當然就是以訓練為主那暫時這些專業的人力他會去擴充到部隊在這方面的實戰上的需求以上的報告\n443587\t464437\t好謝謝您的回覆我會這樣子問是因為目前我們軍用商規的無人機大概有3000多台那麼到底有沒有人能夠操作就是為什麼我在關心這個無人機的訓練中心以下這個需求呢我就不多念了我只想要詢問的是那麼像除了陸用的針氈型外其他的都會在年底前會取得嗎\n465970\t481499\t那麼那有多少國軍擁有這些證照可以來做這個訓練能夠搭配的上就是訓練中心跟我們現有的軍方所採購的3000多家的無人機在這兩者之間我們有足夠的人力人員訓練能夠及時的來使用嗎\n484881\t511773\t我跟委員報告,這是逐年逐年,這30多架不講,目前有那麼多,這上面有一個計劃期程,但我們任何一個計劃在推動上,它不光是這個器械的問題,連同人員怎麼培訓,都是搭配的,所以我們知道空軍飛行員跟飛機架車有關,它有個座艙比,我想我們的無人機也可以朝這一方面來做一個思考,將來有個目標,\n513214\t523022\t將來譬如說有兩架無人機可能要三個人來做一個操控一個備變朝這方面去努力的話我想按照期程可以達到的\n524090\t550423\t好,言下之意就是我們現在的無人機的訓練中心他在規劃當中在啟用當中一年打算訓練多少的所謂無人機的操作手那麼在這樣的計劃當中是不是能夠因應得上現在對於無人機的各種的需求不論是兼征或者是防禦甚至於攻擊型的他其實就像部長所說的他所需要的技術能量其實是不一樣的\n551681\t554282\t其實想問的是有沒有具體精確的數字包括國軍現在有可以操作的操作手有多少人\n574594\t597489\t那麼跟我們現有的這些無人機的搭配的比例是多少?比如像您剛講的可能一台無人機是兩到三位那麼現在到底是比例上面擁有證照真的可以來做操作手能夠真的發生戰事或是現在我們就要上線使用的時候他能夠真的上線能夠使用操作無人機的\n598427\t600168\t我請蓮耀市長跟您做說明\n628667\t640175\t好那最後一個答案那就是所以我們的這個有關於操作的訓練中心接下來那麼有沒有什麼樣的一個目標就是在人員訓練的部分\n641837\t661095\t我剛剛有跟委員蓋報告,我們這無人機獲得多少,人員計劃迅速多少,這是我最基本的目標。而且再進一步的話,就是會搭配我們所交貨的到部隊上面的這些無人機的數目來做搭配。而且操作手會多於無人機。對,沒有錯。\n662676\t672445\t操作手要多於無人機我們要看嘛我們期望這樣子但一定是讓無人機操作是絕對沒有顧慮不會抓個人來操作都是經過訓練的\n","txt":"謝謝主席,主席有請邱部長。好,部長請。\n林委員好部長好有關於我們今天所排定的無人機的部分我想首先要詢問的就是因為在國安相關法規之下我們現在所有的軍事的部分其實重要的基礎建設我們都希望能夠去除紅色供應鏈\n不過當然無人機更是如此因為它都是遠端遙控的部分那麼在我們無人機現在採購的過程當中又或者是說我們所有這個軍用的商規無人機那麼目前在採購的部分在驗收的部分我們如何確保真正的是去除紅色供應鏈因為它也許是在這個過程當中就像之前我們看到的\n未來的賴清德總統在參觀的時候就發現雖然有一顆馬達上面寫著MIC那麼會不會有可能在其中的某些零組件當中他一樣是來自中國那我們在採購跟驗收的過程當中如何確保交機真的是去除紅色供應鏈\n我跟委員前面報告為了要防止這個問題發生我們就要從採購的邊阻開始所以以往採購人員單一的我採購人員對他的採購的對象我現在要求你採購的話這是個組織的問題裡面要有不能夠犯的錯能不能打開來檢查會有這個問題所以我們人員擴大邊阻了以後會造成一個現象\n李卓人議員\n但我們現在國防部採購方法用這個編輯了以後,我們來盡量把這個問題給排除掉。所以最近有一些發生問題,不管錄製的或什麼,是我們自己檢查的時候發覺的。但我覺得不因此而推脫,想說哎呀,我們好像這個管道還是很有用,我們要持續努力。\n好部長我想問的就是在這樣的採購的關鍵當中如何來區分是關鍵的技術那絕對是要去除紅色供應鏈但如果說不是關鍵技術比如像馬達您認為是關鍵技術嗎\n馬達我覺得也蠻關鍵的馬達雖然各國都有但是它專用的馬達可能不一樣所以本期要強調的是在您剛剛所講的不論是擴大編組又或者是專業人才或是專業資訊的取得上面希望能夠更加的謹慎因為我們在報導所說的在同一間廠商在去年9月的時候就是說半年內會開發出取代中國製的供應鏈\n那麼像現在剛好是半年喔,若就您所知或者是其他的長官可以協助回覆的,那麼現在目前在這個部分我們已經獲得了足以取代中國供應鏈的這樣的實力了嗎?\n委員好我是國防採購室主任有關剛剛委員所問的就是紅色供應鏈不管是紅色供應鏈或是說我們這個產品的這個採購膠裝我們是全面禁止這個錄製品百分之百禁止錄製品不只是說一個馬達或者說我們把限制說哪些是錄製品可以哪些是錄製品不可以我們是全面禁止那有關剛剛驗收的部分我這邊再補充跟委員報告其實我們在整個驗收的過程我們在整個防治\n蘇貝爾議員\n接下來要詢問部長的是有關於今天在報告特別提到從俄烏戰爭之後其實了解到無人機的戰隊非常的重要那麼在未來的訓練的部分只稍微短短的幾行寫了成立所謂的無人機訓練中心那麼這樣的一個無人機訓練中心是依現有的國軍的人力來做編組\n還是說接下來我們會擴充成為一個真正的無人機戰隊那這個方向到底是怎麼樣因為我們知道其實無人機如果就今天的報告會發現它有非常不同的作用、功用包括有兼真的但是也有近距離的那麼如何把這個戰隊把它這個無人機的訓練中心如何來運作那麼在配置上面又是一個什麼樣的配置\n我跟委員報告,我們這個專班的一個行程,這個人員是個很重要的,但人員的來源,人才來源,不是光只有現有的。剛剛委員講這個無人機操控,它的條件要具備什麼?曾經對飛行方面要有經驗的話,條件更好。\n所以我們有很多從軍中退的雖然年齡大一點的人但他如果操控無人機的話他沒有受到這個年齡的限制你講他這個服務的年齡可以大一點所以我們從多元管道有些年輕人在這方面本來就很有興趣而且也很專業的我們把這些人招來了以後那成立這個班隊啊我講是效果是更好的\n所以這個無人機的訓練中心在這個班對他當中他現在會變成是一個獨立出來的一個無人機的戰隊嗎編隊嗎他算獨立但他的任務是為國軍的但人民的來源可能就其他管道各方都有所以言下之意他是一個訓練中心他只是作為其他軍種所需要的一個訓練的\n教育訓練的單位還是說這樣的一個無人機訓練中心之後出來他會成為一個無人機的新的戰隊編隊\n委員好,我是陸軍事務部常務長。我就您剛剛的提詢簡要的報告。其實在三軍的無人機運用,它各有不同。就如今這個專報裡面,有戰術型的,還有我們基層部隊,兼征型的,使用一二類的。\n無人機中心實際上在現行在各軍種裡面他的教育班隊裡面都有依據他軍種的建案來開設相關的班隊委員所提的一個戰隊這個概念我大概用我們軍事上來跟委員報告我們任何一個國軍單位的成立都有平時任務跟暫時任務那平時任務當然就是以訓練為主那暫時這些專業的人力他會去擴充到部隊在這方面的實戰上的需求以上的報告\n好謝謝您的回覆我會這樣子問是因為目前我們軍用商規的無人機大概有3000多台那麼到底有沒有人能夠操作就是為什麼我在關心這個無人機的訓練中心以下這個需求呢我就不多念了我只想要詢問的是那麼像除了陸用的針氈型外其他的都會在年底前會取得嗎\n那麼那有多少國軍擁有這些證照可以來做這個訓練能夠搭配的上就是訓練中心跟我們現有的軍方所採購的3000多家的無人機在這兩者之間我們有足夠的人力人員訓練能夠及時的來使用嗎\n我跟委員報告,這是逐年逐年,這30多架不講,目前有那麼多,這上面有一個計劃期程,但我們任何一個計劃在推動上,它不光是這個器械的問題,連同人員怎麼培訓,都是搭配的,所以我們知道空軍飛行員跟飛機架車有關,它有個座艙比,我想我們的無人機也可以朝這一方面來做一個思考,將來有個目標,\n將來譬如說有兩架無人機可能要三個人來做一個操控一個備變朝這方面去努力的話我想按照期程可以達到的\n好,言下之意就是我們現在的無人機的訓練中心他在規劃當中在啟用當中一年打算訓練多少的所謂無人機的操作手那麼在這樣的計劃當中是不是能夠因應得上現在對於無人機的各種的需求不論是兼征或者是防禦甚至於攻擊型的他其實就像部長所說的他所需要的技術能量其實是不一樣的\n其實想問的是有沒有具體精確的數字包括國軍現在有可以操作的操作手有多少人\n那麼跟我們現有的這些無人機的搭配的比例是多少?比如像您剛講的可能一台無人機是兩到三位那麼現在到底是比例上面擁有證照真的可以來做操作手能夠真的發生戰事或是現在我們就要上線使用的時候他能夠真的上線能夠使用操作無人機的\n我請蓮耀市長跟您做說明\n好那最後一個答案那就是所以我們的這個有關於操作的訓練中心接下來那麼有沒有什麼樣的一個目標就是在人員訓練的部分\n我剛剛有跟委員蓋報告,我們這無人機獲得多少,人員計劃迅速多少,這是我最基本的目標。而且再進一步的話,就是會搭配我們所交貨的到部隊上面的這些無人機的數目來做搭配。而且操作手會多於無人機。對,沒有錯。\n操作手要多於無人機我們要看嘛我們期望這樣子但一定是讓無人機操作是絕對沒有顧慮不會抓個人來操作都是經過訓練的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.450 --> 00:06.899\n謝謝主席,主席有請邱部長。好,部長請。\n\n00:12.779 --> 00:29.932\n林委員好部長好有關於我們今天所排定的無人機的部分我想首先要詢問的就是因為在國安相關法規之下我們現在所有的軍事的部分其實重要的基礎建設我們都希望能夠去除紅色供應鏈\n\n00:31.093 --> 00:58.399\n不過當然無人機更是如此因為它都是遠端遙控的部分那麼在我們無人機現在採購的過程當中又或者是說我們所有這個軍用的商規無人機那麼目前在採購的部分在驗收的部分我們如何確保真正的是去除紅色供應鏈因為它也許是在這個過程當中就像之前我們看到的\n\n00:59.319 --> 01:17.793\n未來的賴清德總統在參觀的時候就發現雖然有一顆馬達上面寫著MIC那麼會不會有可能在其中的某些零組件當中他一樣是來自中國那我們在採購跟驗收的過程當中如何確保交機真的是去除紅色供應鏈\n\n01:18.749 --> 01:27.172\n我跟委員前面報告為了要防止這個問題發生我們就要從採購的邊阻開始所以以往採購人員單一的我採購人員對他的採購的對象我現在要求你採購的話這是個組織的問題裡面要有不能夠犯的錯能不能打開來檢查會有這個問題所以我們人員擴大邊阻了以後會造成一個現象\n\n01:45.857 --> 01:46.217\n李卓人議員\n\n02:03.726 --> 02:23.852\n但我們現在國防部採購方法用這個編輯了以後,我們來盡量把這個問題給排除掉。所以最近有一些發生問題,不管錄製的或什麼,是我們自己檢查的時候發覺的。但我覺得不因此而推脫,想說哎呀,我們好像這個管道還是很有用,我們要持續努力。\n\n02:24.212 --> 02:35.892\n好部長我想問的就是在這樣的採購的關鍵當中如何來區分是關鍵的技術那絕對是要去除紅色供應鏈但如果說不是關鍵技術比如像馬達您認為是關鍵技術嗎\n\n02:37.500 --> 02:42.244\n馬達我覺得也蠻關鍵的馬達雖然各國都有但是它專用的馬達可能不一樣所以本期要強調的是在您剛剛所講的不論是擴大編組又或者是專業人才或是專業資訊的取得上面希望能夠更加的謹慎因為我們在報導所說的在同一間廠商在去年9月的時候就是說半年內會開發出取代中國製的供應鏈\n\n03:03.641 --> 03:15.873\n那麼像現在剛好是半年喔,若就您所知或者是其他的長官可以協助回覆的,那麼現在目前在這個部分我們已經獲得了足以取代中國供應鏈的這樣的實力了嗎?\n\n03:20.706 --> 03:49.689\n委員好我是國防採購室主任有關剛剛委員所問的就是紅色供應鏈不管是紅色供應鏈或是說我們這個產品的這個採購膠裝我們是全面禁止這個錄製品百分之百禁止錄製品不只是說一個馬達或者說我們把限制說哪些是錄製品可以哪些是錄製品不可以我們是全面禁止那有關剛剛驗收的部分我這邊再補充跟委員報告其實我們在整個驗收的過程我們在整個防治\n\n04:21.451 --> 04:42.643\n接下來要詢問部長的是有關於今天在報告特別提到從俄烏戰爭之後其實了解到無人機的戰隊非常的重要那麼在未來的訓練的部分只稍微短短的幾行寫了成立所謂的無人機訓練中心那麼這樣的一個無人機訓練中心是依現有的國軍的人力來做編組\n\n04:43.824 --> 05:11.314\n還是說接下來我們會擴充成為一個真正的無人機戰隊那這個方向到底是怎麼樣因為我們知道其實無人機如果就今天的報告會發現它有非常不同的作用、功用包括有兼真的但是也有近距離的那麼如何把這個戰隊把它這個無人機的訓練中心如何來運作那麼在配置上面又是一個什麼樣的配置\n\n05:12.830 --> 05:30.233\n我跟委員報告,我們這個專班的一個行程,這個人員是個很重要的,但人員的來源,人才來源,不是光只有現有的。剛剛委員講這個無人機操控,它的條件要具備什麼?曾經對飛行方面要有經驗的話,條件更好。\n\n05:30.894 --> 05:53.925\n所以我們有很多從軍中退的雖然年齡大一點的人但他如果操控無人機的話他沒有受到這個年齡的限制你講他這個服務的年齡可以大一點所以我們從多元管道有些年輕人在這方面本來就很有興趣而且也很專業的我們把這些人招來了以後那成立這個班隊啊我講是效果是更好的\n\n05:54.045 --> 06:19.473\n所以這個無人機的訓練中心在這個班對他當中他現在會變成是一個獨立出來的一個無人機的戰隊嗎編隊嗎他算獨立但他的任務是為國軍的但人民的來源可能就其他管道各方都有所以言下之意他是一個訓練中心他只是作為其他軍種所需要的一個訓練的\n\n06:21.614 --> 06:30.518\n教育訓練的單位還是說這樣的一個無人機訓練中心之後出來他會成為一個無人機的新的戰隊編隊\n\n06:34.810 --> 06:52.926\n委員好,我是陸軍事務部常務長。我就您剛剛的提詢簡要的報告。其實在三軍的無人機運用,它各有不同。就如今這個專報裡面,有戰術型的,還有我們基層部隊,兼征型的,使用一二類的。\n\n06:54.388 --> 07:23.107\n無人機中心實際上在現行在各軍種裡面他的教育班隊裡面都有依據他軍種的建案來開設相關的班隊委員所提的一個戰隊這個概念我大概用我們軍事上來跟委員報告我們任何一個國軍單位的成立都有平時任務跟暫時任務那平時任務當然就是以訓練為主那暫時這些專業的人力他會去擴充到部隊在這方面的實戰上的需求以上的報告\n\n07:23.587 --> 07:44.437\n好謝謝您的回覆我會這樣子問是因為目前我們軍用商規的無人機大概有3000多台那麼到底有沒有人能夠操作就是為什麼我在關心這個無人機的訓練中心以下這個需求呢我就不多念了我只想要詢問的是那麼像除了陸用的針氈型外其他的都會在年底前會取得嗎\n\n07:45.970 --> 08:01.499\n那麼那有多少國軍擁有這些證照可以來做這個訓練能夠搭配的上就是訓練中心跟我們現有的軍方所採購的3000多家的無人機在這兩者之間我們有足夠的人力人員訓練能夠及時的來使用嗎\n\n08:04.881 --> 08:31.773\n我跟委員報告,這是逐年逐年,這30多架不講,目前有那麼多,這上面有一個計劃期程,但我們任何一個計劃在推動上,它不光是這個器械的問題,連同人員怎麼培訓,都是搭配的,所以我們知道空軍飛行員跟飛機架車有關,它有個座艙比,我想我們的無人機也可以朝這一方面來做一個思考,將來有個目標,\n\n08:33.214 --> 08:43.022\n將來譬如說有兩架無人機可能要三個人來做一個操控一個備變朝這方面去努力的話我想按照期程可以達到的\n\n08:44.090 --> 09:10.423\n好,言下之意就是我們現在的無人機的訓練中心他在規劃當中在啟用當中一年打算訓練多少的所謂無人機的操作手那麼在這樣的計劃當中是不是能夠因應得上現在對於無人機的各種的需求不論是兼征或者是防禦甚至於攻擊型的他其實就像部長所說的他所需要的技術能量其實是不一樣的\n\n09:11.681 --> 09:14.282\n其實想問的是有沒有具體精確的數字包括國軍現在有可以操作的操作手有多少人\n\n09:34.594 --> 09:57.489\n那麼跟我們現有的這些無人機的搭配的比例是多少?比如像您剛講的可能一台無人機是兩到三位那麼現在到底是比例上面擁有證照真的可以來做操作手能夠真的發生戰事或是現在我們就要上線使用的時候他能夠真的上線能夠使用操作無人機的\n\n09:58.427 --> 10:00.168\n我請蓮耀市長跟您做說明\n\n10:28.667 --> 10:40.175\n好那最後一個答案那就是所以我們的這個有關於操作的訓練中心接下來那麼有沒有什麼樣的一個目標就是在人員訓練的部分\n\n10:41.837 --> 11:01.095\n我剛剛有跟委員蓋報告,我們這無人機獲得多少,人員計劃迅速多少,這是我最基本的目標。而且再進一步的話,就是會搭配我們所交貨的到部隊上面的這些無人機的數目來做搭配。而且操作手會多於無人機。對,沒有錯。\n\n11:02.676 --> 11:12.445\n操作手要多於無人機我們要看嘛我們期望這樣子但一定是讓無人機操作是絕對沒有顧慮不會抓個人來操作都是經過訓練的\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.45,"end":6.899,"text":"謝謝主席,主席有請邱部長。好,部長請。"},{"start":12.779,"end":29.932,"text":"林委員好部長好有關於我們今天所排定的無人機的部分我想首先要詢問的就是因為在國安相關法規之下我們現在所有的軍事的部分其實重要的基礎建設我們都希望能夠去除紅色供應鏈"},{"start":31.093,"end":58.399,"text":"不過當然無人機更是如此因為它都是遠端遙控的部分那麼在我們無人機現在採購的過程當中又或者是說我們所有這個軍用的商規無人機那麼目前在採購的部分在驗收的部分我們如何確保真正的是去除紅色供應鏈因為它也許是在這個過程當中就像之前我們看到的"},{"start":59.319,"end":77.793,"text":"未來的賴清德總統在參觀的時候就發現雖然有一顆馬達上面寫著MIC那麼會不會有可能在其中的某些零組件當中他一樣是來自中國那我們在採購跟驗收的過程當中如何確保交機真的是去除紅色供應鏈"},{"start":78.749,"end":87.172,"text":"我跟委員前面報告為了要防止這個問題發生我們就要從採購的邊阻開始所以以往採購人員單一的我採購人員對他的採購的對象我現在要求你採購的話這是個組織的問題裡面要有不能夠犯的錯能不能打開來檢查會有這個問題所以我們人員擴大邊阻了以後會造成一個現象"},{"start":105.857,"end":106.217,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":123.726,"end":143.852,"text":"但我們現在國防部採購方法用這個編輯了以後,我們來盡量把這個問題給排除掉。所以最近有一些發生問題,不管錄製的或什麼,是我們自己檢查的時候發覺的。但我覺得不因此而推脫,想說哎呀,我們好像這個管道還是很有用,我們要持續努力。"},{"start":144.212,"end":155.892,"text":"好部長我想問的就是在這樣的採購的關鍵當中如何來區分是關鍵的技術那絕對是要去除紅色供應鏈但如果說不是關鍵技術比如像馬達您認為是關鍵技術嗎"},{"start":157.5,"end":162.244,"text":"馬達我覺得也蠻關鍵的馬達雖然各國都有但是它專用的馬達可能不一樣所以本期要強調的是在您剛剛所講的不論是擴大編組又或者是專業人才或是專業資訊的取得上面希望能夠更加的謹慎因為我們在報導所說的在同一間廠商在去年9月的時候就是說半年內會開發出取代中國製的供應鏈"},{"start":183.641,"end":195.873,"text":"那麼像現在剛好是半年喔,若就您所知或者是其他的長官可以協助回覆的,那麼現在目前在這個部分我們已經獲得了足以取代中國供應鏈的這樣的實力了嗎?"},{"start":200.706,"end":229.689,"text":"委員好我是國防採購室主任有關剛剛委員所問的就是紅色供應鏈不管是紅色供應鏈或是說我們這個產品的這個採購膠裝我們是全面禁止這個錄製品百分之百禁止錄製品不只是說一個馬達或者說我們把限制說哪些是錄製品可以哪些是錄製品不可以我們是全面禁止那有關剛剛驗收的部分我這邊再補充跟委員報告其實我們在整個驗收的過程我們在整個防治"},{"start":230.35,"end":260.35,"text":"蘇貝爾議員"},{"start":261.451,"end":282.643,"text":"接下來要詢問部長的是有關於今天在報告特別提到從俄烏戰爭之後其實了解到無人機的戰隊非常的重要那麼在未來的訓練的部分只稍微短短的幾行寫了成立所謂的無人機訓練中心那麼這樣的一個無人機訓練中心是依現有的國軍的人力來做編組"},{"start":283.824,"end":311.314,"text":"還是說接下來我們會擴充成為一個真正的無人機戰隊那這個方向到底是怎麼樣因為我們知道其實無人機如果就今天的報告會發現它有非常不同的作用、功用包括有兼真的但是也有近距離的那麼如何把這個戰隊把它這個無人機的訓練中心如何來運作那麼在配置上面又是一個什麼樣的配置"},{"start":312.83,"end":330.233,"text":"我跟委員報告,我們這個專班的一個行程,這個人員是個很重要的,但人員的來源,人才來源,不是光只有現有的。剛剛委員講這個無人機操控,它的條件要具備什麼?曾經對飛行方面要有經驗的話,條件更好。"},{"start":330.894,"end":353.925,"text":"所以我們有很多從軍中退的雖然年齡大一點的人但他如果操控無人機的話他沒有受到這個年齡的限制你講他這個服務的年齡可以大一點所以我們從多元管道有些年輕人在這方面本來就很有興趣而且也很專業的我們把這些人招來了以後那成立這個班隊啊我講是效果是更好的"},{"start":354.045,"end":379.473,"text":"所以這個無人機的訓練中心在這個班對他當中他現在會變成是一個獨立出來的一個無人機的戰隊嗎編隊嗎他算獨立但他的任務是為國軍的但人民的來源可能就其他管道各方都有所以言下之意他是一個訓練中心他只是作為其他軍種所需要的一個訓練的"},{"start":381.614,"end":390.518,"text":"教育訓練的單位還是說這樣的一個無人機訓練中心之後出來他會成為一個無人機的新的戰隊編隊"},{"start":394.81,"end":412.926,"text":"委員好,我是陸軍事務部常務長。我就您剛剛的提詢簡要的報告。其實在三軍的無人機運用,它各有不同。就如今這個專報裡面,有戰術型的,還有我們基層部隊,兼征型的,使用一二類的。"},{"start":414.388,"end":443.107,"text":"無人機中心實際上在現行在各軍種裡面他的教育班隊裡面都有依據他軍種的建案來開設相關的班隊委員所提的一個戰隊這個概念我大概用我們軍事上來跟委員報告我們任何一個國軍單位的成立都有平時任務跟暫時任務那平時任務當然就是以訓練為主那暫時這些專業的人力他會去擴充到部隊在這方面的實戰上的需求以上的報告"},{"start":443.587,"end":464.437,"text":"好謝謝您的回覆我會這樣子問是因為目前我們軍用商規的無人機大概有3000多台那麼到底有沒有人能夠操作就是為什麼我在關心這個無人機的訓練中心以下這個需求呢我就不多念了我只想要詢問的是那麼像除了陸用的針氈型外其他的都會在年底前會取得嗎"},{"start":465.97,"end":481.499,"text":"那麼那有多少國軍擁有這些證照可以來做這個訓練能夠搭配的上就是訓練中心跟我們現有的軍方所採購的3000多家的無人機在這兩者之間我們有足夠的人力人員訓練能夠及時的來使用嗎"},{"start":484.881,"end":511.773,"text":"我跟委員報告,這是逐年逐年,這30多架不講,目前有那麼多,這上面有一個計劃期程,但我們任何一個計劃在推動上,它不光是這個器械的問題,連同人員怎麼培訓,都是搭配的,所以我們知道空軍飛行員跟飛機架車有關,它有個座艙比,我想我們的無人機也可以朝這一方面來做一個思考,將來有個目標,"},{"start":513.214,"end":523.022,"text":"將來譬如說有兩架無人機可能要三個人來做一個操控一個備變朝這方面去努力的話我想按照期程可以達到的"},{"start":524.09,"end":550.423,"text":"好,言下之意就是我們現在的無人機的訓練中心他在規劃當中在啟用當中一年打算訓練多少的所謂無人機的操作手那麼在這樣的計劃當中是不是能夠因應得上現在對於無人機的各種的需求不論是兼征或者是防禦甚至於攻擊型的他其實就像部長所說的他所需要的技術能量其實是不一樣的"},{"start":551.681,"end":554.282,"text":"其實想問的是有沒有具體精確的數字包括國軍現在有可以操作的操作手有多少人"},{"start":574.594,"end":597.489,"text":"那麼跟我們現有的這些無人機的搭配的比例是多少?比如像您剛講的可能一台無人機是兩到三位那麼現在到底是比例上面擁有證照真的可以來做操作手能夠真的發生戰事或是現在我們就要上線使用的時候他能夠真的上線能夠使用操作無人機的"},{"start":598.427,"end":600.168,"text":"我請蓮耀市長跟您做說明"},{"start":628.667,"end":640.175,"text":"好那最後一個答案那就是所以我們的這個有關於操作的訓練中心接下來那麼有沒有什麼樣的一個目標就是在人員訓練的部分"},{"start":641.837,"end":661.095,"text":"我剛剛有跟委員蓋報告,我們這無人機獲得多少,人員計劃迅速多少,這是我最基本的目標。而且再進一步的話,就是會搭配我們所交貨的到部隊上面的這些無人機的數目來做搭配。而且操作手會多於無人機。對,沒有錯。"},{"start":662.676,"end":672.445,"text":"操作手要多於無人機我們要看嘛我們期望這樣子但一定是讓無人機操作是絕對沒有顧慮不會抓個人來操作都是經過訓練的"}]}}}}