{"id":150463,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150463","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5cdd18b0630f5014652100ef94a0b7c33f8ba9b0039caa7a6f482b2ffaf55bfd15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:20:51 - 10:32:19","影片長度":"00:11:28","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算(公務預算)解凍案8案。(如未接獲議事處來函，則不予處理或審查)【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-5"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":688,"end_time":"2024-03-27T10:32:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T10:20:51+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":437,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時21分）不好意思，請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["史部長哲：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。今天我們有一個案子，是要討論國家兒童未來館的解凍案，剛好國家兒童未來館是在我的選區板橋，所以本席對這個都非常關心。"],["史部長哲：是。"],["葉委員元之：我們都聽過有一個東西叫做「選舉浮橋」，每次到選舉的時候這個橋就會浮起來，是選舉的話題。我很擔心國家兒童未來館會變成選舉浮館，因為每一次跟國家兒童未來館有關的新聞都是在選舉的時候發生，這個過程我非常清楚。最早的時候是2018年，蘇貞昌前院長當時競選新北市長的時候，他說看到這一塊地，這個在都市計畫叫特專三，是3.3公頃的地，他說每次看到這個地變成全臺灣最貴的機車停車場，他都非常「厭氣」，如果是由他當新北市長的話，可以在100天之內取得這個用地，開始為大家建兒童未來館，這個是他2018年講的。部長，你知不知道現在這一塊地是不是還是最貴的機車停車場？"],["史部長哲：目前是做機車停車場，我知道。"],["葉委員元之：還是嘛！"],["史部長哲：是不是最貴我不知道。"],["葉委員元之：蘇貞昌講的，如果他說謊就不是，如果沒說謊就是了。我覺得非常奇怪，蘇貞昌後來當了院長以後，照道理說這一塊地是文化部管的，行政院管得到文化部，他直接就可以很快開始做，但是不做，每次經過這個地，我就不知道為什麼他忽然間就不「厭氣」了，照道理說「厭氣」應該是很氣的意思，怎麼過了那麼多年就不「厭氣」了？很奇怪，這是2018年的時候。2021年蘇貞昌前院長跑來我們板橋，煞有其事地開了記者會，他說要給兒童一個大禮，2021年到現在也過了3年。2022年的時候又來了，他說這個館本來是128億，要增加到130億，預計2030年以前完工，2022年是什麼特別的年份呢？剛好又遇到九合一選舉。然後去年（2023年）很巧的，文化部在這邊辦了一個大陣仗的兒童未來館建築師徵選成果發表。2023年11月又是什麼特殊的日子？原來快要總統大選跟立委選舉，所以蘇貞昌帶著他的子弟兵還有他的女兒來到這邊，煞有其事地開了記者會。請教一下部長，現在已經2024年了，按照蘇貞昌前院長說的，2030年要完工，這個做得到嗎？部長，我很擔心，你知道嗎？他2018年開始講兒童都很興奮，你知道嗎？我有一個未來館了，很興奮，結果他說2030年完工，當時兒童如果是6年級的話，2030年已經24歲，大學畢業了，如果早熟一點，小孩都出生了，所以那時候的小朋友都白白興奮了，你知道嗎？我現在不知道這個兒童未來館會不會蓋完之後，可能當時他講的兒童都已經當阿公了，好不好？兒童未來館到底什麼時候要蓋好，可不可以給大家比較具體的承諾，可以嗎？"],["史部長哲：過去您講的種種我不瞭解，不過我手頭上……"],["葉委員元之：你說你不瞭解？"],["史部長哲：您剛剛講的這些過去的狀況，我其實不大清楚。"],["葉委員元之：你不瞭解？怎麼可能？所以蘇貞昌當院長的時候，他都沒有交代文化部說這個是他要給兒童的大禮耶！他都沒有跟文化部講喔？"],["史部長哲：我當部長的時候，院長……"],["葉委員元之：部長，你戳破蘇貞昌的一個大謊言耶！"],["史部長哲：我沒有戳破，我只是說……"],["葉委員元之：因為你比較晚來啦，可是負責這個業務的同仁應該是待比較久，他應該不是跟你一起上任，所以蘇院長這麼有決心要給兒童大禮，卻沒有跟文化部講要好好做這個事情，這個不是蘇貞昌說謊，就是文化部失職啊！"],["史部長哲：有沒有跟文化部講，我不曉得啦，因為我上任的時候就不是蘇貞昌院長，不過我也確實很努力把這個事情做好。第一個，從行政的角度來講，這個經費編列是經過行政院核定的，這是有一個法定程序，這是第一個；第二個，這個經費編列也納入文化部的預算書，也經過大院審查；第三個，去年到今年，我們的任務是要完成建築師的遴選，我們也已經完成了，我們現在正在進行……"],["葉委員元之：沒有啦！部長，我現在是在問一個目標嘛，因為兒童都在等，兒童都在想是他的小孩可以享受到還是孫子，兒童未來館講這麼久了，不要讓我預測正確喔！我猜下一次可能出現的時間是2026年，因為2026年又要選舉了，可不可以很明確地告訴大家你的目標是多久要把它蓋好？"],["史部長哲：我的目標就是依照行政院所核定的進度在進行。"],["葉委員元之：多久、多久？民國哪一年？"],["史部長哲：是2023年。"],["葉委員元之：所以是2030年？"],["史部長哲：是，對。"],["葉委員元之：2030年你會把它完成嘛？"],["史部長哲：是，是行政院目前報給……"],["葉委員元之：這是你給兒童的期許，所以2018年的兒童，你們失望了，不過沒關係，你們的弟弟妹妹還有你們的小孩有機會享受到兒童未來館。","第二個，因為我們今天的葛如鈞是AI專家，現在科技日新月異，AI一年的技術就進步非常多，我不知道兒童未來館會不會蓋好之後，那個科技又已經退步了，這也是我認為文化部必須要注意的部分。還有我們也覺得很奇怪的地方，兒童未來館到目前還是最貴的機車停車場，可是它已經上網徵人了，徵了一位編審，我不知道這位編審是要做什麼，是幫忙做什麼事情？那個地方我每天經過，我也都厭氣厭氣的，跟蘇貞昌一樣，但是為什麼會有編審的缺？"],["史部長哲：就是兒童未來館籌備處的人力啊。"],["葉委員元之：籌備處是不是？"],["史部長哲：是啊。"],["葉委員元之：所以一位負責籌備？"],["史部長哲：沒有，籌備處有一個基本的小編制，裡面都……"],["葉委員元之：小編制？"],["史部長哲：對。"],["葉委員元之：那他主要是負責什麼？"],["史部長哲：我們籌備處當然是針對兒童未來館的工程進度，包括您所關心能不能如期完成以及相關軟體的規劃。"],["葉委員元之：瞭解、瞭解。一個名額我覺得是滿奇怪的，這個是兒童未來博物館的部分。","另外，跟你請教一下文化幣的部分，我個人認為文化幣的立意良善，因為按照部長你們說為什麼要做文化幣呢？哇，這個目標唸起來很崇高啊！開放年輕人的文化體驗，培養長期藝文消費習慣，要讓藝文進入到每個人的生命當中，這個實在是太崇高了。一年有1,200塊錢，讓他去消費藝文，可以讓藝文進入到每個人生命當中，我覺得這太有價值了，但是部長，我發現對我們新北市非常不公平的一件事情，我們來看一下，因為文化幣必須要到一些店家消費，對不對？如果縣市可以消費的店家越多，當然使用文化幣的機會就越高，也比較容易把產值留在我們新北。你看一下，新北市目前可以消費的藝文消費點是571間店；高雄市，就是我們非常羨慕的暖市，總共有3,395家藝文點，高雄市都得天獨厚啦！不只是前瞻計畫的預算比我們多，各方面的建設都比我們多，比較受到中央眷顧，可是為什麼連藝文消費點都多這麼多？因為部長曾經也在高雄服務過，是不是可以來講一下，讓我們借鏡一下，為什麼新北只有571個點，高雄有3,395個點？照道理來講，新北市的人比較多，板橋是60萬人……"],["史部長哲：從您的這張圖上，我們也可以看到臺中市更多。"],["葉委員元之：對！"],["史部長哲：雖然我也在臺中市服務過啦。"],["葉委員元之：對，那你傳授一下，要怎麼樣可以點比較多？"],["史部長哲：所以我想這個其實跟我有沒有在哪裡服務過沒有直接的關係，最主要是這樣子，有些縣市會把它活動型的部分，比如說文創市集等等提報申請，有些縣市就沒有，或者是有些縣市這種文創市集等等活動型的比較少，都是固定型的，其實差異就在這裡而已，並沒有什麼……"],["葉委員元之：我想應該不只是活動型吧！因為文化幣可以使用的範圍很廣，可以買書、可以看電影、可以看演唱會，有非常多的點，對不對？應該不是活動型的就占那麼多數啦！"],["史部長哲：主要因素是在這裡。"],["葉委員元之：我覺得應該是要推廣那些可以使用的實體用店，我覺得會比較有幫助，否則你說都是活動型的，活動型要怎麼樣讓藝文進入到每個人生命中，要怎麼樣培養長期的藝文消費習慣？活動就是活動，一次性就沒有，要怎麼樣培養到藝文消費習慣？"],["史部長哲：我跟委員報告，確實像臺中市就有好幾個市府園區，事實上假日其實都有辦比較活動型的藝文市集，臺北市也是一樣、高雄一樣，其實這個是不同型態的處理，這倒沒有真的……"],["葉委員元之：部長，因為我剛剛有講了，我說你的文化幣非常崇高，你要培養大家長期的藝文消費習慣，所以它必須要是常態、固定的行為。"],["史部長哲：是。"],["葉委員元之：活動型的就是比較臨時的一種行為，假設文化幣都是花在活動上面，這個錢就花得不值得了，對不對？這個還要配合縣市政府辦活動，可是如果文化幣花下去，它是常設性的組織、店家，讓大家一開始來試試看，然後一試成主顧，未來變成常常來這邊消費；我看電影1,200塊，我可能可以看四部電影，在看了這四部電影之後，我就愛上電影了，所以我就長期去電影院消費，這是你的目標嘛！"],["史部長哲：我們事實上現在也在進行。"],["葉委員元之：可是，從我們剛剛的詢答發現，我剛才點出一個問題，實際上文化部應該要去輔導這些縣市的店家，讓它多一點嘛，這是你們的目標，可是你剛剛的回答是沒有啊，沒關係，那個就看縣市政府，有活動就多一點，我覺得這樣子真的不OK……"],["史部長哲：我沒有這樣講。"],["葉委員元之：所以回到我的問題，如果高雄那麼多、新北這麼少，我認為文化部應該去瞭解一下……"],["史部長哲：好，我會同時……"],["葉委員元之：怎麼樣幫忙去推廣在新北文化幣的使用廠商，讓新北的人可以享受你這麼好的福利，這是我今天要跟部長主要質詢的重點，不知道部長可不可以去瞭解一下，到底真正的原因是什麼？"],["史部長哲：當然可以，我會把高雄、臺中跟新北，大家的差異化進行分析，大家是不是經驗交流……"],["葉委員元之：對、對！推廣啦，對不對？"],["史部長哲：我們當然是希望能夠新北市用在新北市最好。"],["葉委員元之：我是希望新北每個人的藝文都進入到他生命當中，好不好？"],["史部長哲：是，好。"],["葉委員元之：希望文化部可以好好加油，謝謝。"],["史部長哲：我只是說沒有對新北異常嚴格，真的請不要誤會，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。再來請葛如鈞委員質詢，等葛如鈞委員質詢完，我們休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","陳秀寳","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","羅廷瑋","葉元之","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林月琴","高金素梅","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅智強"],"page_start":241,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預\n算有關文化部主管預算（公務預算）解凍案8案","agenda_id":"1132201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150463","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150463","tool":"pyannote","id":"150463-pyannote"},"job_id":"Nz61bpkuFYcyTnaT","queued_at":"2024-06-01 19:11:51","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 19:13:24","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150463"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:13:24","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5cdd18b0630f5014652100ef94a0b7c3386695701d999525f0410b60c5f7a9dc05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:13:44","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-01 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0.888}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 684.862, \"end\": 684.962, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"誤\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 684.962, \"end\": 684.982, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,676 --> 00:00:13,538\n請部長,謝謝。好,有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:18,755 --> 00:00:38,212\n委員好,謝謝部長好今天我們有一個案子嘛是要討論國家兒童未來館的一個解凍案嘛那剛好這個國家未來館是在我的選區板橋其實我本席對這個都非常的關心啦那我們都聽過啦有一個東西叫做選舉扶橋啦每次到選舉的時候這個橋就會扶起來選舉的話題我很擔心說我們這個國家兒童未來館會變成一個選舉扶館\n\n3\n00:00:45,558 --> 00:00:57,125\n因為每一次跟國家兒童未來館有關新聞都是在選舉時候發生的這個過程我非常清楚最早的時候是2018年蘇貞昌前院長他當時在競選新北市長的時候\n\n4\n00:00:57,844 --> 00:01:20,604\n他說看到這塊地這個在我們都是計劃叫特專山嘛3.3公頃的地他說每次看到這個地變成全台灣最貴的機車停車場他都很anky啦非常anky然後如果是由他來當新北市長的話他可以在100天之內取得這個用地開始為大家建兒童博物館這個是他2018年\n\n5\n00:01:24,705 --> 00:01:49,516\n處長,您知道這塊地是不是還是最貴的機車停車場嗎?目前是在做機車停車場,我知道,但是是不是最貴我不知道。蘇貞昌講的啦,如果他說謊的話就不是啦,他如果沒說謊就是啦。那我覺得非常奇怪就是說為什麼蘇貞昌他後來當了院長以後照道理來說這塊地是文化部管的,行政院管的到文化部,他直接就可以很快開始做了,不做。\n\n6\n00:01:50,316 --> 00:02:10,963\n每次經過這個地我就不知道為什麼他忽然間就不enki了照道理說enki應該是很氣的意思怎麼過了那麼多年就不enki了很奇怪這是2018年的時候然後2021年蘇貞昌前院長跑到我們板橋煞有其事的開了一個記者會他說他要給兒童一個大禮2021年的時候兒童的大禮2021年到現在也過三年了\n\n7\n00:02:15,965 --> 00:02:23,791\n然後呢2022年的時候又來了他說這個管呢本來是128億要增加到130億\n\n8\n00:02:26,369 --> 00:02:50,322\n預計在2030年以前完工2020年是什麼特別的年份呢剛好又遇到九合一的選舉然後去年2023年很巧的文化部在這邊辦了一個大陣仗的兒童未來博物館建築師甄選成果發表2023年11月又是什麼特殊的日子原來快要總統大選跟立委選舉\n\n9\n00:02:51,423 --> 00:02:57,429\n所以蘇貞昌帶著他的子弟兵還有他的女兒就來到這邊薩爾奇斯開了一個記者會那請教一下部長現在已經2024年了嘛按照蘇貞昌院長他說的2024到2030年要完工嘛這個做得到嗎\n\n10\n00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:29,638\n因為我不然我是很擔心啦你知道嗎他2018年開始講喔兒童都很興奮你知道嗎喔我有一個未來館了很興奮然後結果他說2030年完工當時兒童如果是6年級的話2030年已經大24歲了大學畢業了啦如果早熟一點小孩都出生了啦\n\n11\n00:03:30,419 --> 00:03:45,764\n所以那時候的小朋友都白白興奮了你知道嗎我雖然不知道說這個兒童未來館會不會蓋完之後可能是當時他講的兒童都已經當阿公了好不好這個兒童未來館到底是什麼時候要蓋好可不可以給大家一個比較具體的承諾可以嗎\n\n12\n00:03:47,004 --> 00:04:14,940\n跟委員報告過去您講的種種我不了解不過我手頭上你說你不了解過去你剛講的這些狀況我其實並不太清楚你不了解怎麼可能所以蘇貞昌當院長的時候他都沒有交代文化部說這個是他要給兒童的大禮都沒有跟文化部講我當部長的時候部長你戳破了蘇貞昌一個大謊言我沒有戳破因為你比較晚來可是你們負責這個業務的同仁應該是待比較久他應該不是跟你一起上任\n\n13\n00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:25,040\n所以蘇院長這麼有決心要給兒童大禮卻沒有跟文化部講要好好做這個事情這個就是不是蘇文昌說謊就是文化部失職啊\n\n14\n00:04:26,491 --> 00:04:54,011\n有沒有跟文化部講我不曉得啦因為我上任的時候不是書生商院長不過我也確實很努力把這個事情做好第一個就是說從行政的角度來講這個經費的編列是經過行政院核定的這是有一個法定的程序這是第一個第二個這個經費的編列也納入文化部的預算書也經過大院的審查第三個今年也就是去年到今年我們的任務是要把建築師的領選完成那我們已經完成了我們現在正在進行沒有啦沒有啦我現在是問一個目標嘛\n\n15\n00:04:54,531 --> 00:05:18,799\n因為兒童都在等,兒童要想說是他的小孩可以享受得到還是孫子所以可不可以告訴我們大概這個兒童未來館講這麼久了是不要讓我預測正確我猜下一次可能出現的時間是2026年因為2026又要選舉了所以你可不可以很明確告訴大家說你的目標是多久我的目標就是依照行政院所核定的進度在進行民國哪一年\n\n16\n00:05:19,419 --> 00:05:37,659\n是2023年所以2030年嘛是2030年你會把它完成嘛這是你給兒童的期許啦所以2018年的兒童你們失望了不過沒關係你們的弟弟妹妹還有你們小孩有機會享受到這個兒童未來館然後第二個就是因為我們今天葛如君他是AI專家啦這個\n\n17\n00:05:40,082 --> 00:05:57,381\n現在科技日新月異AI一年的技術就進步非常多我不知道這個兒童未來館會不會蓋好之後那個科技又已經退步了這也是我認為文化部你必須要注意的部分還有我們也覺得很奇怪的地方就是兒童未來館到目前還是最貴機車停車場可是他已經上網徵人了徵了一個編審\n\n18\n00:06:01,025 --> 00:06:15,443\n那我不知道這個編審是要做什麼是幫忙做什麼事情啊?那個地方我每天經過我也都暗起的跟孫生一樣但是為什麼會有編審的缺我都會來管籌備處的人力啊籌備處是不是?是啊所以一位負責籌備?\n\n19\n00:06:16,684 --> 00:06:38,223\n沒有,籌備處有一個基本的小編制嘛小編制那他主要是負責什麼我們籌備處當然是針對龍舟未來館的工程的進度包括您所關心能不能如期完整了解了解那一個名額我覺得是蠻奇怪的這個是兒童未來博物館部分然後另外文化幣的部分跟你請教一下文化幣喔\n\n20\n00:06:39,244 --> 00:07:06,988\n我個人認為利益良善因為按照部長你們說為什麼要做文化幣呢這個目標念起來很崇高他要開放年輕人的文化體驗培養長期藝文消費習慣要讓藝文進入到每個人的生命當中這個猜就太崇高了一年有1200塊錢讓他去消費藝文可以讓藝文進入到每個人生命當中我覺得這太有價值了但是\n\n21\n00:07:07,668 --> 00:07:33,579\n部長,我發現對我們新北市非常不公平的一件事情我們來看一下這個是因為你的文化幣你必須要到一些店家消費嘛對不對,那如果這個縣市的店家可以消費的店家越多當然使用這個文化幣的機會就越高也比較容易把這個產值留在我們新北嘛你看一下我們新北市目前可以消費的藝文消費點是570億間店\n\n22\n00:07:36,360 --> 00:08:04,509\n然後高雄市就是我們非常這個羨慕的暖市總共有3395家藝文點那高雄市都得天獨厚啦不只是前瞻計畫的預算比我們多啦然後各方面建設都比我們多啦那比較受到中央眷顧可是為什麼連這個藝文消費點都多這麼多因為部長您曾經在高雄服務過嘛是不是可以來講一下讓我們借鏡一下\n\n23\n00:08:05,309 --> 00:08:32,546\n為什麼新北只有571個點高雄有3395個點照道理來講我們新北市人比較多我們板橋市60萬人您的這張圖上我們也看到台中市更多嘛對雖然我也在台中市服務過啦那你傳授一下要怎麼樣可以點比較多所以我想這個其實跟我有沒有在哪裡服務過沒有直接的關係啦這個其實最主要是這樣子啦就是說有些縣市他會把他的活動型的\n\n24\n00:08:33,766 --> 00:08:56,538\n以文創事蹟等來提報申請有些縣市就沒有或是有些縣市它這種文創事蹟等等活動型的比較少都是固定型的其實差異就在這裡而已並沒有什麼我想應該不只是活動型吧因為你的文化幣可以使用的範圍很廣嘛可以買書可以看電影然後可以去看演唱會有非常多的點啊\n\n25\n00:08:57,758 --> 00:09:20,714\n所以應該不是說活動型的就占那麼多數啦我覺得應該是要推廣那些可以使用的實體用電啦我覺得會比較幫助嘛否則你說的都是活動型活動型要怎麼樣讓藝文進入到每個人生命中啊要怎麼樣培養長期的藝文消費習慣啊活動就是活動一次性就沒有要怎麼樣培養到我藝文消費習慣\n\n26\n00:09:22,115 --> 00:09:40,960\n委員報告啦確實啦像台中市他就是他有好幾個園區嘛市府的園區那他事實上假日他其實都有辦比較活動型的藝文市集那台北市也是一樣高雄一樣所以其實這個是不同形態的處理這倒沒有真的是這個部長我我因為呢我剛剛有講了我說你在文化幣\n\n27\n00:09:42,469 --> 00:09:42,709\n二月27日及28日\n\n28\n00:10:02,341 --> 00:10:23,447\n可是如果說這個文化幣花下去他是常設性的組織店家然後讓大家說我一開始試試看然後一試成主顧未來變成我常常來這邊消費我看電影一千兩百塊我可能可以看個四部電影然後看了這四部電影之後我就愛上電影了所以我就長期去電影院消費這是你的目標嘛可是實際上從我們剛剛這樣子詢答發現我剛剛點出一個問題就是說其實實際上文化部應該要去輔導說這些\n\n29\n00:10:32,069 --> 00:10:57,245\n現世的店家讓他多一點嘛這個是你們的目標嘛可是你剛剛的回答是說沒有啊沒關係啦那個就看現世政府啦有活動就多一點我覺得這樣子真的不OK所以回到我的問題如果說高雄那麼多新北這麼少我認為文化部應該去了解一下怎麼樣幫忙去推廣在新北的文化幣的使用廠商讓新北的人可以享受你這麼好的福利我覺得這個是\n\n30\n00:10:58,837 --> 00:11:24,982\n我今天要跟部長主要諮詢的重點所以不知道部長可不可以去了解一下到底真正的原因是什麼我會把高雄、台中跟新北大家的差異化進行討論然後大家試試經驗交流推廣我們當然是希望能夠新北用這台新北機構我是希望走在我們新北每個人的藝文都進入到他生命當中是希望文化部可以好好加油謝謝我只是說沒有對新北異常嚴格真的請不要誤會謝謝好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12676\t13538\t請部長,謝謝。好,有請部長\n18755\t38212\t委員好,謝謝部長好今天我們有一個案子嘛是要討論國家兒童未來館的一個解凍案嘛那剛好這個國家未來館是在我的選區板橋其實我本席對這個都非常的關心啦那我們都聽過啦有一個東西叫做選舉扶橋啦每次到選舉的時候這個橋就會扶起來選舉的話題我很擔心說我們這個國家兒童未來館會變成一個選舉扶館\n45558\t57125\t因為每一次跟國家兒童未來館有關新聞都是在選舉時候發生的這個過程我非常清楚最早的時候是2018年蘇貞昌前院長他當時在競選新北市長的時候\n57844\t80604\t他說看到這塊地這個在我們都是計劃叫特專山嘛3.3公頃的地他說每次看到這個地變成全台灣最貴的機車停車場他都很anky啦非常anky然後如果是由他來當新北市長的話他可以在100天之內取得這個用地開始為大家建兒童博物館這個是他2018年\n84705\t109516\t處長,您知道這塊地是不是還是最貴的機車停車場嗎?目前是在做機車停車場,我知道,但是是不是最貴我不知道。蘇貞昌講的啦,如果他說謊的話就不是啦,他如果沒說謊就是啦。那我覺得非常奇怪就是說為什麼蘇貞昌他後來當了院長以後照道理來說這塊地是文化部管的,行政院管的到文化部,他直接就可以很快開始做了,不做。\n110316\t130963\t每次經過這個地我就不知道為什麼他忽然間就不enki了照道理說enki應該是很氣的意思怎麼過了那麼多年就不enki了很奇怪這是2018年的時候然後2021年蘇貞昌前院長跑到我們板橋煞有其事的開了一個記者會他說他要給兒童一個大禮2021年的時候兒童的大禮2021年到現在也過三年了\n135965\t143791\t然後呢2022年的時候又來了他說這個管呢本來是128億要增加到130億\n146369\t170322\t預計在2030年以前完工2020年是什麼特別的年份呢剛好又遇到九合一的選舉然後去年2023年很巧的文化部在這邊辦了一個大陣仗的兒童未來博物館建築師甄選成果發表2023年11月又是什麼特殊的日子原來快要總統大選跟立委選舉\n171423\t177429\t所以蘇貞昌帶著他的子弟兵還有他的女兒就來到這邊薩爾奇斯開了一個記者會那請教一下部長現在已經2024年了嘛按照蘇貞昌院長他說的2024到2030年要完工嘛這個做得到嗎\n191500\t209638\t因為我不然我是很擔心啦你知道嗎他2018年開始講喔兒童都很興奮你知道嗎喔我有一個未來館了很興奮然後結果他說2030年完工當時兒童如果是6年級的話2030年已經大24歲了大學畢業了啦如果早熟一點小孩都出生了啦\n210419\t225764\t所以那時候的小朋友都白白興奮了你知道嗎我雖然不知道說這個兒童未來館會不會蓋完之後可能是當時他講的兒童都已經當阿公了好不好這個兒童未來館到底是什麼時候要蓋好可不可以給大家一個比較具體的承諾可以嗎\n227004\t254940\t跟委員報告過去您講的種種我不了解不過我手頭上你說你不了解過去你剛講的這些狀況我其實並不太清楚你不了解怎麼可能所以蘇貞昌當院長的時候他都沒有交代文化部說這個是他要給兒童的大禮都沒有跟文化部講我當部長的時候部長你戳破了蘇貞昌一個大謊言我沒有戳破因為你比較晚來可是你們負責這個業務的同仁應該是待比較久他應該不是跟你一起上任\n255760\t265040\t所以蘇院長這麼有決心要給兒童大禮卻沒有跟文化部講要好好做這個事情這個就是不是蘇文昌說謊就是文化部失職啊\n266491\t294011\t有沒有跟文化部講我不曉得啦因為我上任的時候不是書生商院長不過我也確實很努力把這個事情做好第一個就是說從行政的角度來講這個經費的編列是經過行政院核定的這是有一個法定的程序這是第一個第二個這個經費的編列也納入文化部的預算書也經過大院的審查第三個今年也就是去年到今年我們的任務是要把建築師的領選完成那我們已經完成了我們現在正在進行沒有啦沒有啦我現在是問一個目標嘛\n294531\t318799\t因為兒童都在等,兒童要想說是他的小孩可以享受得到還是孫子所以可不可以告訴我們大概這個兒童未來館講這麼久了是不要讓我預測正確我猜下一次可能出現的時間是2026年因為2026又要選舉了所以你可不可以很明確告訴大家說你的目標是多久我的目標就是依照行政院所核定的進度在進行民國哪一年\n319419\t337659\t是2023年所以2030年嘛是2030年你會把它完成嘛這是你給兒童的期許啦所以2018年的兒童你們失望了不過沒關係你們的弟弟妹妹還有你們小孩有機會享受到這個兒童未來館然後第二個就是因為我們今天葛如君他是AI專家啦這個\n340082\t357381\t現在科技日新月異AI一年的技術就進步非常多我不知道這個兒童未來館會不會蓋好之後那個科技又已經退步了這也是我認為文化部你必須要注意的部分還有我們也覺得很奇怪的地方就是兒童未來館到目前還是最貴機車停車場可是他已經上網徵人了徵了一個編審\n361025\t375443\t那我不知道這個編審是要做什麼是幫忙做什麼事情啊?那個地方我每天經過我也都暗起的跟孫生一樣但是為什麼會有編審的缺我都會來管籌備處的人力啊籌備處是不是?是啊所以一位負責籌備?\n376684\t398223\t沒有,籌備處有一個基本的小編制嘛小編制那他主要是負責什麼我們籌備處當然是針對龍舟未來館的工程的進度包括您所關心能不能如期完整了解了解那一個名額我覺得是蠻奇怪的這個是兒童未來博物館部分然後另外文化幣的部分跟你請教一下文化幣喔\n399244\t426988\t我個人認為利益良善因為按照部長你們說為什麼要做文化幣呢這個目標念起來很崇高他要開放年輕人的文化體驗培養長期藝文消費習慣要讓藝文進入到每個人的生命當中這個猜就太崇高了一年有1200塊錢讓他去消費藝文可以讓藝文進入到每個人生命當中我覺得這太有價值了但是\n427668\t453579\t部長,我發現對我們新北市非常不公平的一件事情我們來看一下這個是因為你的文化幣你必須要到一些店家消費嘛對不對,那如果這個縣市的店家可以消費的店家越多當然使用這個文化幣的機會就越高也比較容易把這個產值留在我們新北嘛你看一下我們新北市目前可以消費的藝文消費點是570億間店\n456360\t484509\t然後高雄市就是我們非常這個羨慕的暖市總共有3395家藝文點那高雄市都得天獨厚啦不只是前瞻計畫的預算比我們多啦然後各方面建設都比我們多啦那比較受到中央眷顧可是為什麼連這個藝文消費點都多這麼多因為部長您曾經在高雄服務過嘛是不是可以來講一下讓我們借鏡一下\n485309\t512546\t為什麼新北只有571個點高雄有3395個點照道理來講我們新北市人比較多我們板橋市60萬人您的這張圖上我們也看到台中市更多嘛對雖然我也在台中市服務過啦那你傳授一下要怎麼樣可以點比較多所以我想這個其實跟我有沒有在哪裡服務過沒有直接的關係啦這個其實最主要是這樣子啦就是說有些縣市他會把他的活動型的\n513766\t536538\t以文創事蹟等來提報申請有些縣市就沒有或是有些縣市它這種文創事蹟等等活動型的比較少都是固定型的其實差異就在這裡而已並沒有什麼我想應該不只是活動型吧因為你的文化幣可以使用的範圍很廣嘛可以買書可以看電影然後可以去看演唱會有非常多的點啊\n537758\t560714\t所以應該不是說活動型的就占那麼多數啦我覺得應該是要推廣那些可以使用的實體用電啦我覺得會比較幫助嘛否則你說的都是活動型活動型要怎麼樣讓藝文進入到每個人生命中啊要怎麼樣培養長期的藝文消費習慣啊活動就是活動一次性就沒有要怎麼樣培養到我藝文消費習慣\n562115\t580960\t委員報告啦確實啦像台中市他就是他有好幾個園區嘛市府的園區那他事實上假日他其實都有辦比較活動型的藝文市集那台北市也是一樣高雄一樣所以其實這個是不同形態的處理這倒沒有真的是這個部長我我因為呢我剛剛有講了我說你在文化幣\n582469\t582709\t二月27日及28日\n602341\t623447\t可是如果說這個文化幣花下去他是常設性的組織店家然後讓大家說我一開始試試看然後一試成主顧未來變成我常常來這邊消費我看電影一千兩百塊我可能可以看個四部電影然後看了這四部電影之後我就愛上電影了所以我就長期去電影院消費這是你的目標嘛可是實際上從我們剛剛這樣子詢答發現我剛剛點出一個問題就是說其實實際上文化部應該要去輔導說這些\n632069\t657245\t現世的店家讓他多一點嘛這個是你們的目標嘛可是你剛剛的回答是說沒有啊沒關係啦那個就看現世政府啦有活動就多一點我覺得這樣子真的不OK所以回到我的問題如果說高雄那麼多新北這麼少我認為文化部應該去了解一下怎麼樣幫忙去推廣在新北的文化幣的使用廠商讓新北的人可以享受你這麼好的福利我覺得這個是\n658837\t684982\t我今天要跟部長主要諮詢的重點所以不知道部長可不可以去了解一下到底真正的原因是什麼我會把高雄、台中跟新北大家的差異化進行討論然後大家試試經驗交流推廣我們當然是希望能夠新北用這台新北機構我是希望走在我們新北每個人的藝文都進入到他生命當中是希望文化部可以好好加油謝謝我只是說沒有對新北異常嚴格真的請不要誤會謝謝好\n","txt":"請部長,謝謝。好,有請部長\n委員好,謝謝部長好今天我們有一個案子嘛是要討論國家兒童未來館的一個解凍案嘛那剛好這個國家未來館是在我的選區板橋其實我本席對這個都非常的關心啦那我們都聽過啦有一個東西叫做選舉扶橋啦每次到選舉的時候這個橋就會扶起來選舉的話題我很擔心說我們這個國家兒童未來館會變成一個選舉扶館\n因為每一次跟國家兒童未來館有關新聞都是在選舉時候發生的這個過程我非常清楚最早的時候是2018年蘇貞昌前院長他當時在競選新北市長的時候\n他說看到這塊地這個在我們都是計劃叫特專山嘛3.3公頃的地他說每次看到這個地變成全台灣最貴的機車停車場他都很anky啦非常anky然後如果是由他來當新北市長的話他可以在100天之內取得這個用地開始為大家建兒童博物館這個是他2018年\n處長,您知道這塊地是不是還是最貴的機車停車場嗎?目前是在做機車停車場,我知道,但是是不是最貴我不知道。蘇貞昌講的啦,如果他說謊的話就不是啦,他如果沒說謊就是啦。那我覺得非常奇怪就是說為什麼蘇貞昌他後來當了院長以後照道理來說這塊地是文化部管的,行政院管的到文化部,他直接就可以很快開始做了,不做。\n每次經過這個地我就不知道為什麼他忽然間就不enki了照道理說enki應該是很氣的意思怎麼過了那麼多年就不enki了很奇怪這是2018年的時候然後2021年蘇貞昌前院長跑到我們板橋煞有其事的開了一個記者會他說他要給兒童一個大禮2021年的時候兒童的大禮2021年到現在也過三年了\n然後呢2022年的時候又來了他說這個管呢本來是128億要增加到130億\n預計在2030年以前完工2020年是什麼特別的年份呢剛好又遇到九合一的選舉然後去年2023年很巧的文化部在這邊辦了一個大陣仗的兒童未來博物館建築師甄選成果發表2023年11月又是什麼特殊的日子原來快要總統大選跟立委選舉\n所以蘇貞昌帶著他的子弟兵還有他的女兒就來到這邊薩爾奇斯開了一個記者會那請教一下部長現在已經2024年了嘛按照蘇貞昌院長他說的2024到2030年要完工嘛這個做得到嗎\n因為我不然我是很擔心啦你知道嗎他2018年開始講喔兒童都很興奮你知道嗎喔我有一個未來館了很興奮然後結果他說2030年完工當時兒童如果是6年級的話2030年已經大24歲了大學畢業了啦如果早熟一點小孩都出生了啦\n所以那時候的小朋友都白白興奮了你知道嗎我雖然不知道說這個兒童未來館會不會蓋完之後可能是當時他講的兒童都已經當阿公了好不好這個兒童未來館到底是什麼時候要蓋好可不可以給大家一個比較具體的承諾可以嗎\n跟委員報告過去您講的種種我不了解不過我手頭上你說你不了解過去你剛講的這些狀況我其實並不太清楚你不了解怎麼可能所以蘇貞昌當院長的時候他都沒有交代文化部說這個是他要給兒童的大禮都沒有跟文化部講我當部長的時候部長你戳破了蘇貞昌一個大謊言我沒有戳破因為你比較晚來可是你們負責這個業務的同仁應該是待比較久他應該不是跟你一起上任\n所以蘇院長這麼有決心要給兒童大禮卻沒有跟文化部講要好好做這個事情這個就是不是蘇文昌說謊就是文化部失職啊\n有沒有跟文化部講我不曉得啦因為我上任的時候不是書生商院長不過我也確實很努力把這個事情做好第一個就是說從行政的角度來講這個經費的編列是經過行政院核定的這是有一個法定的程序這是第一個第二個這個經費的編列也納入文化部的預算書也經過大院的審查第三個今年也就是去年到今年我們的任務是要把建築師的領選完成那我們已經完成了我們現在正在進行沒有啦沒有啦我現在是問一個目標嘛\n因為兒童都在等,兒童要想說是他的小孩可以享受得到還是孫子所以可不可以告訴我們大概這個兒童未來館講這麼久了是不要讓我預測正確我猜下一次可能出現的時間是2026年因為2026又要選舉了所以你可不可以很明確告訴大家說你的目標是多久我的目標就是依照行政院所核定的進度在進行民國哪一年\n是2023年所以2030年嘛是2030年你會把它完成嘛這是你給兒童的期許啦所以2018年的兒童你們失望了不過沒關係你們的弟弟妹妹還有你們小孩有機會享受到這個兒童未來館然後第二個就是因為我們今天葛如君他是AI專家啦這個\n現在科技日新月異AI一年的技術就進步非常多我不知道這個兒童未來館會不會蓋好之後那個科技又已經退步了這也是我認為文化部你必須要注意的部分還有我們也覺得很奇怪的地方就是兒童未來館到目前還是最貴機車停車場可是他已經上網徵人了徵了一個編審\n那我不知道這個編審是要做什麼是幫忙做什麼事情啊?那個地方我每天經過我也都暗起的跟孫生一樣但是為什麼會有編審的缺我都會來管籌備處的人力啊籌備處是不是?是啊所以一位負責籌備?\n沒有,籌備處有一個基本的小編制嘛小編制那他主要是負責什麼我們籌備處當然是針對龍舟未來館的工程的進度包括您所關心能不能如期完整了解了解那一個名額我覺得是蠻奇怪的這個是兒童未來博物館部分然後另外文化幣的部分跟你請教一下文化幣喔\n我個人認為利益良善因為按照部長你們說為什麼要做文化幣呢這個目標念起來很崇高他要開放年輕人的文化體驗培養長期藝文消費習慣要讓藝文進入到每個人的生命當中這個猜就太崇高了一年有1200塊錢讓他去消費藝文可以讓藝文進入到每個人生命當中我覺得這太有價值了但是\n部長,我發現對我們新北市非常不公平的一件事情我們來看一下這個是因為你的文化幣你必須要到一些店家消費嘛對不對,那如果這個縣市的店家可以消費的店家越多當然使用這個文化幣的機會就越高也比較容易把這個產值留在我們新北嘛你看一下我們新北市目前可以消費的藝文消費點是570億間店\n然後高雄市就是我們非常這個羨慕的暖市總共有3395家藝文點那高雄市都得天獨厚啦不只是前瞻計畫的預算比我們多啦然後各方面建設都比我們多啦那比較受到中央眷顧可是為什麼連這個藝文消費點都多這麼多因為部長您曾經在高雄服務過嘛是不是可以來講一下讓我們借鏡一下\n為什麼新北只有571個點高雄有3395個點照道理來講我們新北市人比較多我們板橋市60萬人您的這張圖上我們也看到台中市更多嘛對雖然我也在台中市服務過啦那你傳授一下要怎麼樣可以點比較多所以我想這個其實跟我有沒有在哪裡服務過沒有直接的關係啦這個其實最主要是這樣子啦就是說有些縣市他會把他的活動型的\n以文創事蹟等來提報申請有些縣市就沒有或是有些縣市它這種文創事蹟等等活動型的比較少都是固定型的其實差異就在這裡而已並沒有什麼我想應該不只是活動型吧因為你的文化幣可以使用的範圍很廣嘛可以買書可以看電影然後可以去看演唱會有非常多的點啊\n所以應該不是說活動型的就占那麼多數啦我覺得應該是要推廣那些可以使用的實體用電啦我覺得會比較幫助嘛否則你說的都是活動型活動型要怎麼樣讓藝文進入到每個人生命中啊要怎麼樣培養長期的藝文消費習慣啊活動就是活動一次性就沒有要怎麼樣培養到我藝文消費習慣\n委員報告啦確實啦像台中市他就是他有好幾個園區嘛市府的園區那他事實上假日他其實都有辦比較活動型的藝文市集那台北市也是一樣高雄一樣所以其實這個是不同形態的處理這倒沒有真的是這個部長我我因為呢我剛剛有講了我說你在文化幣\n二月27日及28日\n可是如果說這個文化幣花下去他是常設性的組織店家然後讓大家說我一開始試試看然後一試成主顧未來變成我常常來這邊消費我看電影一千兩百塊我可能可以看個四部電影然後看了這四部電影之後我就愛上電影了所以我就長期去電影院消費這是你的目標嘛可是實際上從我們剛剛這樣子詢答發現我剛剛點出一個問題就是說其實實際上文化部應該要去輔導說這些\n現世的店家讓他多一點嘛這個是你們的目標嘛可是你剛剛的回答是說沒有啊沒關係啦那個就看現世政府啦有活動就多一點我覺得這樣子真的不OK所以回到我的問題如果說高雄那麼多新北這麼少我認為文化部應該去了解一下怎麼樣幫忙去推廣在新北的文化幣的使用廠商讓新北的人可以享受你這麼好的福利我覺得這個是\n我今天要跟部長主要諮詢的重點所以不知道部長可不可以去了解一下到底真正的原因是什麼我會把高雄、台中跟新北大家的差異化進行討論然後大家試試經驗交流推廣我們當然是希望能夠新北用這台新北機構我是希望走在我們新北每個人的藝文都進入到他生命當中是希望文化部可以好好加油謝謝我只是說沒有對新北異常嚴格真的請不要誤會謝謝好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.676 --> 00:13.538\n請部長,謝謝。好,有請部長\n\n00:18.755 --> 00:38.212\n委員好,謝謝部長好今天我們有一個案子嘛是要討論國家兒童未來館的一個解凍案嘛那剛好這個國家未來館是在我的選區板橋其實我本席對這個都非常的關心啦那我們都聽過啦有一個東西叫做選舉扶橋啦每次到選舉的時候這個橋就會扶起來選舉的話題我很擔心說我們這個國家兒童未來館會變成一個選舉扶館\n\n00:45.558 --> 00:57.125\n因為每一次跟國家兒童未來館有關新聞都是在選舉時候發生的這個過程我非常清楚最早的時候是2018年蘇貞昌前院長他當時在競選新北市長的時候\n\n00:57.844 --> 01:20.604\n他說看到這塊地這個在我們都是計劃叫特專山嘛3.3公頃的地他說每次看到這個地變成全台灣最貴的機車停車場他都很anky啦非常anky然後如果是由他來當新北市長的話他可以在100天之內取得這個用地開始為大家建兒童博物館這個是他2018年\n\n01:24.705 --> 01:49.516\n處長,您知道這塊地是不是還是最貴的機車停車場嗎?目前是在做機車停車場,我知道,但是是不是最貴我不知道。蘇貞昌講的啦,如果他說謊的話就不是啦,他如果沒說謊就是啦。那我覺得非常奇怪就是說為什麼蘇貞昌他後來當了院長以後照道理來說這塊地是文化部管的,行政院管的到文化部,他直接就可以很快開始做了,不做。\n\n01:50.316 --> 02:10.963\n每次經過這個地我就不知道為什麼他忽然間就不enki了照道理說enki應該是很氣的意思怎麼過了那麼多年就不enki了很奇怪這是2018年的時候然後2021年蘇貞昌前院長跑到我們板橋煞有其事的開了一個記者會他說他要給兒童一個大禮2021年的時候兒童的大禮2021年到現在也過三年了\n\n02:15.965 --> 02:23.791\n然後呢2022年的時候又來了他說這個管呢本來是128億要增加到130億\n\n02:26.369 --> 02:50.322\n預計在2030年以前完工2020年是什麼特別的年份呢剛好又遇到九合一的選舉然後去年2023年很巧的文化部在這邊辦了一個大陣仗的兒童未來博物館建築師甄選成果發表2023年11月又是什麼特殊的日子原來快要總統大選跟立委選舉\n\n02:51.423 --> 02:57.429\n所以蘇貞昌帶著他的子弟兵還有他的女兒就來到這邊薩爾奇斯開了一個記者會那請教一下部長現在已經2024年了嘛按照蘇貞昌院長他說的2024到2030年要完工嘛這個做得到嗎\n\n03:11.500 --> 03:29.638\n因為我不然我是很擔心啦你知道嗎他2018年開始講喔兒童都很興奮你知道嗎喔我有一個未來館了很興奮然後結果他說2030年完工當時兒童如果是6年級的話2030年已經大24歲了大學畢業了啦如果早熟一點小孩都出生了啦\n\n03:30.419 --> 03:45.764\n所以那時候的小朋友都白白興奮了你知道嗎我雖然不知道說這個兒童未來館會不會蓋完之後可能是當時他講的兒童都已經當阿公了好不好這個兒童未來館到底是什麼時候要蓋好可不可以給大家一個比較具體的承諾可以嗎\n\n03:47.004 --> 04:14.940\n跟委員報告過去您講的種種我不了解不過我手頭上你說你不了解過去你剛講的這些狀況我其實並不太清楚你不了解怎麼可能所以蘇貞昌當院長的時候他都沒有交代文化部說這個是他要給兒童的大禮都沒有跟文化部講我當部長的時候部長你戳破了蘇貞昌一個大謊言我沒有戳破因為你比較晚來可是你們負責這個業務的同仁應該是待比較久他應該不是跟你一起上任\n\n04:15.760 --> 04:25.040\n所以蘇院長這麼有決心要給兒童大禮卻沒有跟文化部講要好好做這個事情這個就是不是蘇文昌說謊就是文化部失職啊\n\n04:26.491 --> 04:54.011\n有沒有跟文化部講我不曉得啦因為我上任的時候不是書生商院長不過我也確實很努力把這個事情做好第一個就是說從行政的角度來講這個經費的編列是經過行政院核定的這是有一個法定的程序這是第一個第二個這個經費的編列也納入文化部的預算書也經過大院的審查第三個今年也就是去年到今年我們的任務是要把建築師的領選完成那我們已經完成了我們現在正在進行沒有啦沒有啦我現在是問一個目標嘛\n\n04:54.531 --> 05:18.799\n因為兒童都在等,兒童要想說是他的小孩可以享受得到還是孫子所以可不可以告訴我們大概這個兒童未來館講這麼久了是不要讓我預測正確我猜下一次可能出現的時間是2026年因為2026又要選舉了所以你可不可以很明確告訴大家說你的目標是多久我的目標就是依照行政院所核定的進度在進行民國哪一年\n\n05:19.419 --> 05:37.659\n是2023年所以2030年嘛是2030年你會把它完成嘛這是你給兒童的期許啦所以2018年的兒童你們失望了不過沒關係你們的弟弟妹妹還有你們小孩有機會享受到這個兒童未來館然後第二個就是因為我們今天葛如君他是AI專家啦這個\n\n05:40.082 --> 05:57.381\n現在科技日新月異AI一年的技術就進步非常多我不知道這個兒童未來館會不會蓋好之後那個科技又已經退步了這也是我認為文化部你必須要注意的部分還有我們也覺得很奇怪的地方就是兒童未來館到目前還是最貴機車停車場可是他已經上網徵人了徵了一個編審\n\n06:01.025 --> 06:15.443\n那我不知道這個編審是要做什麼是幫忙做什麼事情啊?那個地方我每天經過我也都暗起的跟孫生一樣但是為什麼會有編審的缺我都會來管籌備處的人力啊籌備處是不是?是啊所以一位負責籌備?\n\n06:16.684 --> 06:38.223\n沒有,籌備處有一個基本的小編制嘛小編制那他主要是負責什麼我們籌備處當然是針對龍舟未來館的工程的進度包括您所關心能不能如期完整了解了解那一個名額我覺得是蠻奇怪的這個是兒童未來博物館部分然後另外文化幣的部分跟你請教一下文化幣喔\n\n06:39.244 --> 07:06.988\n我個人認為利益良善因為按照部長你們說為什麼要做文化幣呢這個目標念起來很崇高他要開放年輕人的文化體驗培養長期藝文消費習慣要讓藝文進入到每個人的生命當中這個猜就太崇高了一年有1200塊錢讓他去消費藝文可以讓藝文進入到每個人生命當中我覺得這太有價值了但是\n\n07:07.668 --> 07:33.579\n部長,我發現對我們新北市非常不公平的一件事情我們來看一下這個是因為你的文化幣你必須要到一些店家消費嘛對不對,那如果這個縣市的店家可以消費的店家越多當然使用這個文化幣的機會就越高也比較容易把這個產值留在我們新北嘛你看一下我們新北市目前可以消費的藝文消費點是570億間店\n\n07:36.360 --> 08:04.509\n然後高雄市就是我們非常這個羨慕的暖市總共有3395家藝文點那高雄市都得天獨厚啦不只是前瞻計畫的預算比我們多啦然後各方面建設都比我們多啦那比較受到中央眷顧可是為什麼連這個藝文消費點都多這麼多因為部長您曾經在高雄服務過嘛是不是可以來講一下讓我們借鏡一下\n\n08:05.309 --> 08:32.546\n為什麼新北只有571個點高雄有3395個點照道理來講我們新北市人比較多我們板橋市60萬人您的這張圖上我們也看到台中市更多嘛對雖然我也在台中市服務過啦那你傳授一下要怎麼樣可以點比較多所以我想這個其實跟我有沒有在哪裡服務過沒有直接的關係啦這個其實最主要是這樣子啦就是說有些縣市他會把他的活動型的\n\n08:33.766 --> 08:56.538\n以文創事蹟等來提報申請有些縣市就沒有或是有些縣市它這種文創事蹟等等活動型的比較少都是固定型的其實差異就在這裡而已並沒有什麼我想應該不只是活動型吧因為你的文化幣可以使用的範圍很廣嘛可以買書可以看電影然後可以去看演唱會有非常多的點啊\n\n08:57.758 --> 09:20.714\n所以應該不是說活動型的就占那麼多數啦我覺得應該是要推廣那些可以使用的實體用電啦我覺得會比較幫助嘛否則你說的都是活動型活動型要怎麼樣讓藝文進入到每個人生命中啊要怎麼樣培養長期的藝文消費習慣啊活動就是活動一次性就沒有要怎麼樣培養到我藝文消費習慣\n\n09:22.115 --> 09:40.960\n委員報告啦確實啦像台中市他就是他有好幾個園區嘛市府的園區那他事實上假日他其實都有辦比較活動型的藝文市集那台北市也是一樣高雄一樣所以其實這個是不同形態的處理這倒沒有真的是這個部長我我因為呢我剛剛有講了我說你在文化幣\n\n09:42.469 --> 09:42.709\n二月27日及28日\n\n10:02.341 --> 10:23.447\n可是如果說這個文化幣花下去他是常設性的組織店家然後讓大家說我一開始試試看然後一試成主顧未來變成我常常來這邊消費我看電影一千兩百塊我可能可以看個四部電影然後看了這四部電影之後我就愛上電影了所以我就長期去電影院消費這是你的目標嘛可是實際上從我們剛剛這樣子詢答發現我剛剛點出一個問題就是說其實實際上文化部應該要去輔導說這些\n\n10:32.069 --> 10:57.245\n現世的店家讓他多一點嘛這個是你們的目標嘛可是你剛剛的回答是說沒有啊沒關係啦那個就看現世政府啦有活動就多一點我覺得這樣子真的不OK所以回到我的問題如果說高雄那麼多新北這麼少我認為文化部應該去了解一下怎麼樣幫忙去推廣在新北的文化幣的使用廠商讓新北的人可以享受你這麼好的福利我覺得這個是\n\n10:58.837 --> 11:24.982\n我今天要跟部長主要諮詢的重點所以不知道部長可不可以去了解一下到底真正的原因是什麼我會把高雄、台中跟新北大家的差異化進行討論然後大家試試經驗交流推廣我們當然是希望能夠新北用這台新北機構我是希望走在我們新北每個人的藝文都進入到他生命當中是希望文化部可以好好加油謝謝我只是說沒有對新北異常嚴格真的請不要誤會謝謝好\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.676,"end":13.538,"text":"請部長,謝謝。好,有請部長"},{"start":18.755,"end":38.212,"text":"委員好,謝謝部長好今天我們有一個案子嘛是要討論國家兒童未來館的一個解凍案嘛那剛好這個國家未來館是在我的選區板橋其實我本席對這個都非常的關心啦那我們都聽過啦有一個東西叫做選舉扶橋啦每次到選舉的時候這個橋就會扶起來選舉的話題我很擔心說我們這個國家兒童未來館會變成一個選舉扶館"},{"start":45.558,"end":57.125,"text":"因為每一次跟國家兒童未來館有關新聞都是在選舉時候發生的這個過程我非常清楚最早的時候是2018年蘇貞昌前院長他當時在競選新北市長的時候"},{"start":57.844,"end":80.604,"text":"他說看到這塊地這個在我們都是計劃叫特專山嘛3.3公頃的地他說每次看到這個地變成全台灣最貴的機車停車場他都很anky啦非常anky然後如果是由他來當新北市長的話他可以在100天之內取得這個用地開始為大家建兒童博物館這個是他2018年"},{"start":84.705,"end":109.516,"text":"處長,您知道這塊地是不是還是最貴的機車停車場嗎?目前是在做機車停車場,我知道,但是是不是最貴我不知道。蘇貞昌講的啦,如果他說謊的話就不是啦,他如果沒說謊就是啦。那我覺得非常奇怪就是說為什麼蘇貞昌他後來當了院長以後照道理來說這塊地是文化部管的,行政院管的到文化部,他直接就可以很快開始做了,不做。"},{"start":110.316,"end":130.963,"text":"每次經過這個地我就不知道為什麼他忽然間就不enki了照道理說enki應該是很氣的意思怎麼過了那麼多年就不enki了很奇怪這是2018年的時候然後2021年蘇貞昌前院長跑到我們板橋煞有其事的開了一個記者會他說他要給兒童一個大禮2021年的時候兒童的大禮2021年到現在也過三年了"},{"start":135.965,"end":143.791,"text":"然後呢2022年的時候又來了他說這個管呢本來是128億要增加到130億"},{"start":146.369,"end":170.322,"text":"預計在2030年以前完工2020年是什麼特別的年份呢剛好又遇到九合一的選舉然後去年2023年很巧的文化部在這邊辦了一個大陣仗的兒童未來博物館建築師甄選成果發表2023年11月又是什麼特殊的日子原來快要總統大選跟立委選舉"},{"start":171.423,"end":177.429,"text":"所以蘇貞昌帶著他的子弟兵還有他的女兒就來到這邊薩爾奇斯開了一個記者會那請教一下部長現在已經2024年了嘛按照蘇貞昌院長他說的2024到2030年要完工嘛這個做得到嗎"},{"start":191.5,"end":209.638,"text":"因為我不然我是很擔心啦你知道嗎他2018年開始講喔兒童都很興奮你知道嗎喔我有一個未來館了很興奮然後結果他說2030年完工當時兒童如果是6年級的話2030年已經大24歲了大學畢業了啦如果早熟一點小孩都出生了啦"},{"start":210.419,"end":225.764,"text":"所以那時候的小朋友都白白興奮了你知道嗎我雖然不知道說這個兒童未來館會不會蓋完之後可能是當時他講的兒童都已經當阿公了好不好這個兒童未來館到底是什麼時候要蓋好可不可以給大家一個比較具體的承諾可以嗎"},{"start":227.004,"end":254.94,"text":"跟委員報告過去您講的種種我不了解不過我手頭上你說你不了解過去你剛講的這些狀況我其實並不太清楚你不了解怎麼可能所以蘇貞昌當院長的時候他都沒有交代文化部說這個是他要給兒童的大禮都沒有跟文化部講我當部長的時候部長你戳破了蘇貞昌一個大謊言我沒有戳破因為你比較晚來可是你們負責這個業務的同仁應該是待比較久他應該不是跟你一起上任"},{"start":255.76,"end":265.04,"text":"所以蘇院長這麼有決心要給兒童大禮卻沒有跟文化部講要好好做這個事情這個就是不是蘇文昌說謊就是文化部失職啊"},{"start":266.491,"end":294.011,"text":"有沒有跟文化部講我不曉得啦因為我上任的時候不是書生商院長不過我也確實很努力把這個事情做好第一個就是說從行政的角度來講這個經費的編列是經過行政院核定的這是有一個法定的程序這是第一個第二個這個經費的編列也納入文化部的預算書也經過大院的審查第三個今年也就是去年到今年我們的任務是要把建築師的領選完成那我們已經完成了我們現在正在進行沒有啦沒有啦我現在是問一個目標嘛"},{"start":294.531,"end":318.799,"text":"因為兒童都在等,兒童要想說是他的小孩可以享受得到還是孫子所以可不可以告訴我們大概這個兒童未來館講這麼久了是不要讓我預測正確我猜下一次可能出現的時間是2026年因為2026又要選舉了所以你可不可以很明確告訴大家說你的目標是多久我的目標就是依照行政院所核定的進度在進行民國哪一年"},{"start":319.419,"end":337.659,"text":"是2023年所以2030年嘛是2030年你會把它完成嘛這是你給兒童的期許啦所以2018年的兒童你們失望了不過沒關係你們的弟弟妹妹還有你們小孩有機會享受到這個兒童未來館然後第二個就是因為我們今天葛如君他是AI專家啦這個"},{"start":340.082,"end":357.381,"text":"現在科技日新月異AI一年的技術就進步非常多我不知道這個兒童未來館會不會蓋好之後那個科技又已經退步了這也是我認為文化部你必須要注意的部分還有我們也覺得很奇怪的地方就是兒童未來館到目前還是最貴機車停車場可是他已經上網徵人了徵了一個編審"},{"start":361.025,"end":375.443,"text":"那我不知道這個編審是要做什麼是幫忙做什麼事情啊?那個地方我每天經過我也都暗起的跟孫生一樣但是為什麼會有編審的缺我都會來管籌備處的人力啊籌備處是不是?是啊所以一位負責籌備?"},{"start":376.684,"end":398.223,"text":"沒有,籌備處有一個基本的小編制嘛小編制那他主要是負責什麼我們籌備處當然是針對龍舟未來館的工程的進度包括您所關心能不能如期完整了解了解那一個名額我覺得是蠻奇怪的這個是兒童未來博物館部分然後另外文化幣的部分跟你請教一下文化幣喔"},{"start":399.244,"end":426.988,"text":"我個人認為利益良善因為按照部長你們說為什麼要做文化幣呢這個目標念起來很崇高他要開放年輕人的文化體驗培養長期藝文消費習慣要讓藝文進入到每個人的生命當中這個猜就太崇高了一年有1200塊錢讓他去消費藝文可以讓藝文進入到每個人生命當中我覺得這太有價值了但是"},{"start":427.668,"end":453.579,"text":"部長,我發現對我們新北市非常不公平的一件事情我們來看一下這個是因為你的文化幣你必須要到一些店家消費嘛對不對,那如果這個縣市的店家可以消費的店家越多當然使用這個文化幣的機會就越高也比較容易把這個產值留在我們新北嘛你看一下我們新北市目前可以消費的藝文消費點是570億間店"},{"start":456.36,"end":484.509,"text":"然後高雄市就是我們非常這個羨慕的暖市總共有3395家藝文點那高雄市都得天獨厚啦不只是前瞻計畫的預算比我們多啦然後各方面建設都比我們多啦那比較受到中央眷顧可是為什麼連這個藝文消費點都多這麼多因為部長您曾經在高雄服務過嘛是不是可以來講一下讓我們借鏡一下"},{"start":485.309,"end":512.546,"text":"為什麼新北只有571個點高雄有3395個點照道理來講我們新北市人比較多我們板橋市60萬人您的這張圖上我們也看到台中市更多嘛對雖然我也在台中市服務過啦那你傳授一下要怎麼樣可以點比較多所以我想這個其實跟我有沒有在哪裡服務過沒有直接的關係啦這個其實最主要是這樣子啦就是說有些縣市他會把他的活動型的"},{"start":513.766,"end":536.538,"text":"以文創事蹟等來提報申請有些縣市就沒有或是有些縣市它這種文創事蹟等等活動型的比較少都是固定型的其實差異就在這裡而已並沒有什麼我想應該不只是活動型吧因為你的文化幣可以使用的範圍很廣嘛可以買書可以看電影然後可以去看演唱會有非常多的點啊"},{"start":537.758,"end":560.714,"text":"所以應該不是說活動型的就占那麼多數啦我覺得應該是要推廣那些可以使用的實體用電啦我覺得會比較幫助嘛否則你說的都是活動型活動型要怎麼樣讓藝文進入到每個人生命中啊要怎麼樣培養長期的藝文消費習慣啊活動就是活動一次性就沒有要怎麼樣培養到我藝文消費習慣"},{"start":562.115,"end":580.96,"text":"委員報告啦確實啦像台中市他就是他有好幾個園區嘛市府的園區那他事實上假日他其實都有辦比較活動型的藝文市集那台北市也是一樣高雄一樣所以其實這個是不同形態的處理這倒沒有真的是這個部長我我因為呢我剛剛有講了我說你在文化幣"},{"start":582.469,"end":582.709,"text":"二月27日及28日"},{"start":602.341,"end":623.447,"text":"可是如果說這個文化幣花下去他是常設性的組織店家然後讓大家說我一開始試試看然後一試成主顧未來變成我常常來這邊消費我看電影一千兩百塊我可能可以看個四部電影然後看了這四部電影之後我就愛上電影了所以我就長期去電影院消費這是你的目標嘛可是實際上從我們剛剛這樣子詢答發現我剛剛點出一個問題就是說其實實際上文化部應該要去輔導說這些"},{"start":632.069,"end":657.245,"text":"現世的店家讓他多一點嘛這個是你們的目標嘛可是你剛剛的回答是說沒有啊沒關係啦那個就看現世政府啦有活動就多一點我覺得這樣子真的不OK所以回到我的問題如果說高雄那麼多新北這麼少我認為文化部應該去了解一下怎麼樣幫忙去推廣在新北的文化幣的使用廠商讓新北的人可以享受你這麼好的福利我覺得這個是"},{"start":658.837,"end":684.982,"text":"我今天要跟部長主要諮詢的重點所以不知道部長可不可以去了解一下到底真正的原因是什麼我會把高雄、台中跟新北大家的差異化進行討論然後大家試試經驗交流推廣我們當然是希望能夠新北用這台新北機構我是希望走在我們新北每個人的藝文都進入到他生命當中是希望文化部可以好好加油謝謝我只是說沒有對新北異常嚴格真的請不要誤會謝謝好"}]}}}}