{"id":150464,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150464","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d534c5e6ff761848bba3d9204d572e03aff8ba9b0039caa7a64b61ec4768948a9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"10:15:10 - 10:24:39","影片長度":"00:09:29","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案(含報告事項45案及討論事項4案)。【如經復議則不予處理或審查】\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】\n【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":569,"end_time":"2024-03-27T10:24:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T10:15:10+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":379,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（10時15分）謝謝主席。請薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：涂委員好！"],["涂委員權吉：好！薛部長，在上次質詢的時候，我也跟你提過，我們桃園工業區有非常多，之前也跟部長這邊報告，我們桃園有36處的工業區，有登記的廠房大概有1萬2,000間，我想請問一下，我們桃園有一個比較老舊的工業區，叫大園工業區，大概有40年以上，在2020年的時候很多的民眾反映、很多的里長也反映，就是那個工業區裡面常常有很多燒焦的味道，還有酸味，還有化學溶劑的味道，那時候陳情案也非常多。針對這一部分，部長知道環境部這邊怎麼處理嗎？因為當時叫環保署。"],["薛部長富盛：OK，我是不是請我們環管署顏署長來報告？因為這個大園工業區的確年代比較久遠……"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係，那個看……"],["薛部長富盛：看看涂委員的重點是要怎麼樣，我們來處理。"],["涂委員權吉：我想瞭解一下，因為這個案子從2020年民眾就已經陳情到現在，那個時候陳情案件大概就有50、60件，據我們瞭解，好像有成立專案計畫，是嗎？不知道計畫的成效如何？有掌握住嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：涂委員是說異味。異味，我覺得當地應該有一些監控的機制在進行當中才對，所以……"],["涂委員權吉：對，據我們瞭解，環境部好像在2021年有成立專案計畫。沒關係！這一部分，後面再給我們確實、詳細的書面報告。"],["薛部長富盛：好，我們回去來瞭解看看。"],["涂委員權吉：還有一個比較重點，其實據我們瞭解，好像後面確實是有一些成效，從2020年陳情案件56件，後來到2022年的時候陳情案件就減到了25件，最主要當初我們有告發2到3家，後來陳情案件減少的原因是因為我們有用科技執法、新的監控儀器，所以告發了13家，這兩年中陳情案件減少，告發的廠商、業者數量也增多，表示我們這個新的監控儀器看起來是有用的。我們桃園目前有36處工業區，算起來是我們全北部最大的工業區……"],["薛部長富盛：對，密度比較高。"],["涂委員權吉：因為針對這些工業區有非常多的陳情案件，像是檢舉空污、異味，甚至水源污染等等部分，既然這些新的科技監控儀器有這種成效，是不是可以推廣到其他的工業區去使用？"],["薛部長富盛：是的，謝謝涂委員的提醒，我想特別是桃園，這邊產業發展非常興旺，工業區的環境假如經常被人家詬病，透過科技執法來減低這些污染物的排放，我覺得這個也是環境部的責任，我們來瞭解一下，全力的來協助。"],["涂委員權吉：據我們瞭解，新型的像空氣品質感測器物聯網，還有遠端水質監測，這個對空污及水源好像可以很確實的掌控。其實我也知道在環保的部分要檢舉、舉發這些業者真的並不是那麼容易，常常我們人員去到那邊的時候，排放空污就沒有了，且民眾常常也有很多不好的想法，說是不是業者跟我們環保局、環境部有聯繫，一檢舉以後，就不排放，當然我相信我們公務人員的清白，可是既然有這麼好的儀器，為什麼不去廣泛地推動使用，以確實的掌控這些空污及水源的問題？"],["薛部長富盛：跟涂委員報告，剛剛我們顏署長有告訴我，桃園這一塊過去幾年事實上跟當地的里長合作相當密切，所以很多包括舉報的這個部分，我想也謝謝我們的里長。能夠仗義執言，勇敢的以民眾的健康福祉為重來……"],["涂委員權吉：好，我剛剛講的目的就是希望我們環境部，既然這麼有成效，為什麼不好好去推廣？這個儀器既然效果這麼好，為什麼現在還有很多檢舉卻抓不到的問題？是不是能夠確實去推廣？"],["薛部長富盛：不過這個儀器購買需要經費，也希望涂委員……"],["涂委員權吉：我覺得如果真的有成效，應該錢要花在刀口上……"],["薛部長富盛：給我們支持，謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：能夠解決我們空污及水源污染的問題。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：好。今天主要談碳費，據我們瞭解，昨天開第二次的會議，針對碳費的收取部分，好像還沒有達成共識，是嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：也不是所謂沒有達成共識，他們事實上是有一些共識，而且這個共識是往良性的方向發展，包括希望以科學基礎來定碳費，而不是大家在那邊喊價、去投票，假如真的要給一個數字，投票5分鐘。我們就可以解決了，但是環境部並沒有這樣做，我們希望提供委員更完善的資訊，讓他們去判斷，當然也把CPI，就是大院提出的建議，納進去考量，同時也考量到……"],["涂委員權吉：有沒有預計大概什麼時候要來徵收？"],["薛部長富盛：這個部分我們當然希望費率審議委員會儘快，但是也必須考量到整體的大環境……"],["涂委員權吉：可是之前好像有講是不是要從明年（2025年）開始徵收？"],["薛部長富盛：明年是收費，當然涂委員假如也有這種想法，我們也會來考量今年開徵，但是是不是從某一個時間點開徵，我覺得這個也是一個很好的折衷方式。"],["涂委員權吉：可是我們知道，以世界這個潮流，徵收碳費是勢在必行，我們現在也擔心，因為臺灣電價現在又大幅的調漲，企業很多也很擔心，而且現在我們整個社會的共識連這個怎麼徵收、多少噸、費用等等好像都還沒有完全的標準，業者也反映是不是有機會給他們一個緩衝期，不知道部長針對這一部分有什麼看法？"],["薛部長富盛：我們會納進去考量，事實上我在某一個程度蠻認同，當初當然有一個理想的期待，後來假如客觀環境有改變，環境部這邊來配合做調整，對我們的產業衝擊影響可以減少，同時對於我們在減碳的這個路徑上，也是朝著我們的目標來邁進，我支持……"],["涂委員權吉：好，請問一下，這個碳費的收取裡面會不會有回饋我們受污染的第一線居民？"],["薛部長富盛：這個部分事實上廣義的解釋或許可以用得上，至於細節的部分……"],["涂委員權吉：所以有機會嘛？因為有很多民眾反映這個費用的收取是不是他們這些第一線受污染的……"],["薛部長富盛：我覺得公正轉型事實上就有這個概念……"],["涂委員權吉：敦親睦鄰我覺得應該是有必要的啦！"],["薛部長富盛：是，我認同涂委員的意見。"],["涂委員權吉：還有我們瞭解工業區裡面好像有一個空污防制費，這個空污防制費一年大概收取多少錢？"],["薛部長富盛：一年五十億左右。"],["涂委員權吉：全臺灣一年五十億？"],["薛部長富盛：是，有一部分是地方政府分配給地方環保局。"],["涂委員權吉：它這個費用收取的部分裡面有敦親睦鄰的費用嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：有分怎麼樣？"],["涂委員權吉：就是照顧附近受污染的居民，因為民眾有反映……"],["薛部長富盛：那應該是地方分配的那一塊。"],["張司長順欽：跟委員報告，我們收取的空污基金上面來講，從固定污染源收一款，移動污染源也收一款，另外是營建工程收一款。"],["涂委員權吉：有沒有回饋給居民？"],["張司長順欽：我們不是用回饋，我們是用污染改善的方式來做。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！像他說他們住的地方是不是可以裝空氣清淨機？"],["薛部長富盛：跟涂委員報告，所謂回饋這塊應該是事業單位或者開發單位他們去回饋啦！既然繳交這個公基金，公基金的使用有一個法制的規範……"],["涂委員權吉：好，因為有收取這個碳費，我希望碳費的部分到時候可以考量一下，照顧一下第一線受污染的居民，希望部長在研擬的時候把它納入。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝涂委員的建議。"],["涂委員權吉：謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝涂權吉委員。","接下來請廖偉翔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-9","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","陳菁徽","劉建國","盧縣一","陳昭姿","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","洪申翰","李彥秀","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","黃國昌","陳冠廷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132102_00002","1132102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍\n結案49案（含報告事項45案及討論事項4案）（前接第一冊）","agenda_id":"1132102_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150464","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150464","tool":"pyannote","id":"150464-pyannote"},"job_id":"r9iC4SPL9ZjwykeJ","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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{\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 65.501, \"end\": 65.621, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 65.621, \"end\": 65.982, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 65.982, \"end\": 66.182, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 66.182, \"end\": 66.342, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 66.342, \"end\": 66.522, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 66.522, \"end\": 66.863, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 66.863, \"end\": 67.443, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 67.443, \"end\": 67.623, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 67.623, \"end\": 67.904, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 67.904, \"end\": 68.164, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 68.164, \"end\": 68.584, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 68.584, \"end\": 68.864, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 68.864, \"end\": 69.465, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"叫\", \"start\": 69.465, \"end\": 69.845, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 69.845, \"end\": 70.086, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 70.086, \"end\": 70.266, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 70.266, \"end\": 70.386, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 70.386, \"end\": 70.406, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 70.406, \"end\": 70.426, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 71.938, \"end\": 96.656, \"text\": \"呃我是不是請我們黃管署嚴署長來報告因為大園這個工業區的確比較年代比較久遠齁沒關係那個看重點是看看圖文重點是要怎麼樣我們來因為我想了解一下因為這個案子從2020年民眾就已經陳情到現在那個時候陳情案件大概就有五六十件那不知道後面\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"呃\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 71.938, \"end\": 72.098, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 72.098, \"end\": 72.198, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 72.198, \"end\": 72.338, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 72.338, \"end\": 72.519, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 72.519, \"end\": 73.559, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 73.559, \"end\": 73.719, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 73.719, \"end\": 74.1, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 74.1, \"end\": 74.68, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 74.68, \"end\": 74.82, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 74.82, \"end\": 75.0, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 75.0, \"end\": 76.181, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 76.181, \"end\": 76.682, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 76.682, \"end\": 77.002, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 77.002, \"end\": 77.963, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 77.963, \"end\": 78.163, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 78.163, \"end\": 78.343, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 78.343, \"end\": 78.603, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"久\", \"start\": 78.603, \"end\": 79.244, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"遠\"}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 79.244, \"end\": 79.944, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 79.944, \"end\": 80.344, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 80.344, \"end\": 81.025, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 81.025, \"end\": 81.385, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 81.385, \"end\": 81.986, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 81.986, \"end\": 82.126, \"score\": 0.875}, 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\"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 90.872, \"end\": 91.493, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 91.493, \"end\": 91.893, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 91.893, \"end\": 92.814, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 92.814, \"end\": 92.934, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 92.934, \"end\": 93.194, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 93.194, \"end\": 93.414, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 93.414, \"end\": 93.554, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 93.554, \"end\": 93.714, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 93.714, \"end\": 93.774, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 93.774, \"end\": 94.054, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 94.054, \"end\": 94.235, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"六\", \"start\": 94.235, \"end\": 94.535, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 94.535, \"end\": 94.775, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 94.775, \"end\": 95.435, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 95.435, \"end\": 96.076, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 96.076, \"end\": 96.196, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 96.196, \"end\": 96.296, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 96.296, \"end\": 96.476, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 96.476, \"end\": 96.636, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 96.636, \"end\": 96.656, \"score\": 0.995}]}, {\"start\": 97.637, \"end\": 117.243, \"text\": \"因為據我們了解好像說有成立專案計劃是嗎?那不知道計劃的成效如何?有專案計劃嗎?有掌握住嗎?主管是說議會那因為我覺得當地應該有一些監控的機制在進行當中才對對因為據我們了解環境部好像在2021年有成立專案計劃那\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 97.637, \"end\": 98.177, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 98.177, \"end\": 98.397, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 98.397, \"end\": 98.617, \"score\": 0.999}, 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560.381, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,183 --> 00:00:16,350\n委員發言好謝謝主席那請我們薛部長請薛部長好同仁好\n\n2\n00:00:17,725 --> 00:00:45,583\n好薛部長在上次質詢的時候我也跟你提過就是因為我們桃園工業區有非常多那之前也跟部長這邊報告我們桃園有36處的工業區那有登記的廠房大概有一萬兩千間那我想請問一下那我們桃園有一個比較老舊的工業區叫大園工業區大概有40年以上那\n\n3\n00:00:46,363 --> 00:01:10,426\n他在2020年的時候很多的民眾反映然後很多的里長也反映就是那個工業區裡面常常有很多燒焦的味道還有酸味還有化學溶劑的味道那時候陳情那也非常多不知道後來我們針對這一部分部長知道我們這一部分我們環境部這邊要怎麼處理嗎因為當時叫環保署啦OK\n\n4\n00:01:11,938 --> 00:01:36,656\n呃我是不是請我們黃管署嚴署長來報告因為大園這個工業區的確比較年代比較久遠齁沒關係那個看重點是看看圖文重點是要怎麼樣我們來因為我想了解一下因為這個案子從2020年民眾就已經陳情到現在那個時候陳情案件大概就有五六十件那不知道後面\n\n5\n00:01:37,637 --> 00:01:57,243\n因為據我們了解好像說有成立專案計劃是嗎?那不知道計劃的成效如何?有專案計劃嗎?有掌握住嗎?主管是說議會那因為我覺得當地應該有一些監控的機制在進行當中才對對因為據我們了解環境部好像在2021年有成立專案計劃那\n\n6\n00:02:03,038 --> 00:02:21,552\n所以環境部沒關係那這部分後面再給我們確實的詳細的書面報告那還有一個比較重點其實據我們了解好像後面確實是有一些成效那從2020年陳情案件56件後來到2022年的時候陳情案件就減到了25件最主要當初我們有舉發了告發了兩到三家然後後來\n\n7\n00:02:33,621 --> 00:02:50,189\n懲棄案件減少的原因是因為說我們有用科技執法新的監控儀器所以它告發了13家表示這兩年中懲棄案件減少然後告發的廠商的業者的\n\n8\n00:02:51,681 --> 00:02:54,962\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n9\n00:03:14,010 --> 00:03:33,783\n檢舉空汙的、異味甚至水源汙染等等部分那是不是居然這些新的科技監控儀器有這種成效是不是可以推廣到其他的工業區去使用是的我想謝謝圖文的提醒我想特別是桃園這邊這個產業發展非常興旺那的確工業區的一個環境經常被人家詬病那透過科技執法\n\n10\n00:03:42,168 --> 00:04:06,854\n來減低這些污染物的排放我覺得這個也是環境部的責任我們來了解一下那全力的來協定因為據我們了解好像有針對新型的像空氣品質感測器物聯網還有遠端水質監測所以它這個對空污跟水源好像可以很切實的掌控那因為其實我也知道這個在環保\n\n11\n00:04:07,814 --> 00:04:30,784\n環保要檢舉、要舉發這些業者其實真的並不是那麼容易常常排放空屋的時候然後我們人員去到的時候就沒有了那常常民眾也有很多不好的想法說是不是跟業者跟我們這些環保局、環保署是不是有聯繫一檢舉就不排放\n\n12\n00:04:31,224 --> 00:05:00,265\n當然我相信我們公務人員的清白啦那可是居然有這麼好的儀器為什麼不去廣泛的推動來使用切實的掌控這些空污增水源的問題那跟圖文報告事實上剛剛我們原署長有告訴我說桃園這一塊過去幾年事實上跟當地的里長合作相當密切所以很多包括舉報的這個部分我想也謝謝我們的里長能夠這個仗義執言勇敢的去\n\n13\n00:05:01,565 --> 00:05:28,299\n以民眾的健康為福祉來我希望我們環境部剛剛講的目的就是希望居然這麼有成效為什麼不好好去推廣那這個儀器居然效果這麼好為什麼現在還很多說檢舉抓不到的問題是不是能夠切實去推廣這個儀器購買需要經費啦也希望土委員在我覺得如果真的有成效應該錢要花在刀口上能夠解決我們空污跟水源污染的問題好謝謝\n\n14\n00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:57,047\n好那今天主要這個碳費據我們了解昨天開這個第二次的會議好像針對這個碳費的收取部分好像還沒有達成共識是嗎?也不是所謂沒有達成共識啦他們事實上是有一些共識齁而且這個共識事實上是往良性的方向發展包括希望以科學基礎來定碳費而不是大家在那邊喊價去投票假如\n\n15\n00:05:57,947 --> 00:06:18,024\n真的要給一個數字投票5分鐘我們就可以解決了但是環境部並沒有這樣做我們希望提供委員更這個完善的一些資訊讓他們去判斷當然也把CPI就是大宴這個提出了一個這個建議給納進去考量那你們預計大概什麼時候要來實施\n\n16\n00:06:19,325 --> 00:06:46,537\n我想這一部分我們當然希望這個匯率審議委員會盡快啦但是也必須考量到整體的...可是之前好像有講說是不是要從明年2025年開始徵收?明年是收費啦當然這個土耳其人腳踝也有這種想法事實上我們也會來考量今年開徵但是是不是從某一個時間點開徵我覺得這個也是一個很好的一個折衷的方式\n\n17\n00:06:46,857 --> 00:07:03,146\n可是我們知道以世界這個潮流征收這個碳費是勢在必行是勢在必行我們現在也擔心因為我們現在台灣這個電價現在又大幅的調漲那企業也很多也很擔心而且現在整個\n\n18\n00:07:04,207 --> 00:07:17,968\n整個我們社會共識連這個整個徵收怎麼徵收多少噸費用等等好像都還沒有完全的一個標準而且業者也反映說那是不是有機會給他們一個緩衝期不知道部長針對這部分有什麼看法\n\n19\n00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:48,155\n會納進去考量事實上我在某個程度蠻認同當初當然有一個理想的期待那假如客觀環境有改變環境部這邊來配合做一個調整對我們的產業衝擊影響可以減少同時對於我們在減碳的這個路徑上也是超著我們目標好那請問一下這個碳費的收取它裡面會不會有回饋在我們受污染第一線的居民這個部分事實上\n\n20\n00:07:49,734 --> 00:08:13,414\n廣義的解釋或許可以用,用得上啊。所以有機會嘛,因為有很多民眾反映喔,這個費用的收取是不是他們這些第一線收屋產的。我覺得公正轉型事實上就有這個概念。這個凍結目的我覺得應該是有必要的啦。是,我覺得認同突然的。對,還有我們了解工業區裡面好像有一個空屋防治費,我們這空屋防治費一年大概收取多少錢?\n\n21\n00:08:14,684 --> 00:08:34,853\n一年50億左右是吧?全台灣一年50億嗎?有一部分事實上是地方政府分配給地方環保機關那它這個費用收取的部分裡面有蹲青木林的費用嗎?有分怎麼樣?就是照顧附近受汙染的居民因為民眾有反映...跟委員報告我們收取的那個...\n\n22\n00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:54,428\n空汙基金上面來講從固定汙染源有收一款那移動汙染也有收一款那另外是營建工程也收一款對有沒有回饋給居民我們不是用回饋我們是汙染改善的方式來講對啊像他說他們住的地方是不是可以裝空氣清潔機\n\n23\n00:08:56,912 --> 00:09:17,582\n給圖文報告所謂回饋這塊應該是事業單位或者開發單位他們去回饋啦那既然繳交這個公積金他公積金的使用他有一個這個法制規範那所以因為剛好這樣有收取這個碳費我希望這個碳費的部分到時候可以考量一下照顧一下我們這第一線受汙染的居民\n\n24\n00:09:18,598 --> 00:09:20,381\n請部長,我們這部分希望嚴謹的時候把它納入。好,謝謝圖文的建議。好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝圖文。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n183\t16350\t委員發言好謝謝主席那請我們薛部長請薛部長好同仁好\n17725\t45583\t好 薛部長在上次質詢的時候我也跟你提過就是因為我們桃園工業區有非常多那之前也跟部長這邊報告我們桃園有36處的工業區那有登記的廠房大概有一萬兩千間那我想請問一下那我們桃園有一個比較老舊的工業區叫大園工業區大概有40年以上那\n46363\t70426\t他在2020年的時候很多的民眾反映然後很多的里長也反映就是那個工業區裡面常常有很多燒焦的味道還有酸味還有化學溶劑的味道那時候陳情那也非常多不知道後來我們針對這一部分部長知道我們這一部分我們環境部這邊要怎麼處理嗎因為當時叫環保署啦OK\n71938\t96656\t呃我是不是請我們黃管署嚴署長來報告因為大園這個工業區的確比較年代比較久遠齁沒關係那個看重點是看看圖文重點是要怎麼樣我們來因為我想了解一下因為這個案子從2020年民眾就已經陳情到現在那個時候陳情案件大概就有五六十件那不知道後面\n97637\t117243\t因為據我們了解好像說有成立專案計劃是嗎?那不知道計劃的成效如何?有專案計劃嗎?有掌握住嗎?主管是說議會那因為我覺得當地應該有一些監控的機制在進行當中才對對因為據我們了解環境部好像在2021年有成立專案計劃那\n123038\t141552\t所以環境部沒關係那這部分後面再給我們確實的詳細的書面報告那還有一個比較重點其實據我們了解好像後面確實是有一些成效那從2020年陳情案件56件後來到2022年的時候陳情案件就減到了25件最主要當初我們有舉發了告發了兩到三家然後後來\n153621\t170189\t懲棄案件減少的原因是因為說我們有用科技執法新的監控儀器所以它告發了13家表示這兩年中懲棄案件減少然後告發的廠商的業者的\n171681\t174962\t二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n194010\t213783\t檢舉空汙的、異味甚至水源汙染等等部分那是不是居然這些新的科技監控儀器有這種成效是不是可以推廣到其他的工業區去使用是的我想謝謝圖文的提醒我想特別是桃園這邊這個產業發展非常興旺那的確工業區的一個環境經常被人家詬病那透過科技執法\n222168\t246854\t來減低這些污染物的排放我覺得這個也是環境部的責任我們來了解一下那全力的來協定因為據我們了解好像有針對新型的像空氣品質感測器物聯網還有遠端水質監測所以它這個對空污跟水源好像可以很切實的掌控那因為其實我也知道這個在環保\n247814\t270784\t環保要檢舉、要舉發這些業者其實真的並不是那麼容易常常排放空屋的時候然後我們人員去到的時候就沒有了那常常民眾也有很多不好的想法說是不是跟業者跟我們這些環保局、環保署是不是有聯繫一檢舉就不排放\n271224\t300265\t當然我相信我們公務人員的清白啦那可是居然有這麼好的儀器為什麼不去廣泛的推動來使用切實的掌控這些空污增水源的問題那跟圖文報告事實上剛剛我們原署長有告訴我說桃園這一塊過去幾年事實上跟當地的里長合作相當密切所以很多包括舉報的這個部分我想也謝謝我們的里長能夠這個仗義執言勇敢的去\n301565\t328299\t以民眾的健康為福祉來我希望我們環境部剛剛講的目的就是希望居然這麼有成效為什麼不好好去推廣那這個儀器居然效果這麼好為什麼現在還很多說檢舉抓不到的問題是不是能夠切實去推廣這個儀器購買需要經費啦也希望土委員在我覺得如果真的有成效應該錢要花在刀口上能夠解決我們空污跟水源污染的問題好 謝謝\n329420\t357047\t好那今天主要這個碳費據我們了解昨天開這個第二次的會議好像針對這個碳費的收取部分好像還沒有達成共識是嗎?也不是所謂沒有達成共識啦他們事實上是有一些共識齁而且這個共識事實上是往良性的方向發展包括希望以科學基礎來定碳費而不是大家在那邊喊價去投票假如\n357947\t378024\t真的要給一個數字投票5分鐘我們就可以解決了但是環境部並沒有這樣做我們希望提供委員更這個完善的一些資訊讓他們去判斷當然也把CPI就是大宴這個提出了一個這個建議給納進去考量那你們預計大概什麼時候要來實施\n379325\t406537\t我想這一部分我們當然希望這個匯率審議委員會盡快啦但是也必須考量到整體的...可是之前好像有講說是不是要從明年2025年開始徵收?明年是收費啦當然這個土耳其人腳踝也有這種想法事實上我們也會來考量今年開徵但是是不是從某一個時間點開徵我覺得這個也是一個很好的一個折衷的方式\n406857\t423146\t可是我們知道以世界這個潮流征收這個碳費是勢在必行是勢在必行我們現在也擔心因為我們現在台灣這個電價現在又大幅的調漲那企業也很多也很擔心而且現在整個\n424207\t437968\t整個我們社會共識連這個整個徵收怎麼徵收多少噸費用等等好像都還沒有完全的一個標準而且業者也反映說那是不是有機會給他們一個緩衝期不知道部長針對這部分有什麼看法\n439990\t468155\t會納進去考量事實上我在某個程度蠻認同當初當然有一個理想的期待那假如客觀環境有改變環境部這邊來配合做一個調整對我們的產業衝擊影響可以減少同時對於我們在減碳的這個路徑上也是超著我們目標好那請問一下這個碳費的收取它裡面會不會有回饋在我們受污染第一線的居民這個部分事實上\n469734\t493414\t廣義的解釋或許可以用,用得上啊。所以有機會嘛,因為有很多民眾反映喔,這個費用的收取是不是他們這些第一線收屋產的。我覺得公正轉型事實上就有這個概念。這個凍結目的我覺得應該是有必要的啦。是,我覺得認同突然的。對,還有我們了解工業區裡面好像有一個空屋防治費,我們這空屋防治費一年大概收取多少錢?\n494684\t514853\t一年50億左右是吧?全台灣一年50億嗎?有一部分事實上是地方政府分配給地方環保機關那它這個費用收取的部分裡面有蹲青木林的費用嗎?有分怎麼樣?就是照顧附近受汙染的居民因為民眾有反映...跟委員報告我們收取的那個...\n519399\t534428\t空汙基金上面來講從固定汙染源有收一款那移動汙染也有收一款那另外是營建工程也收一款對有沒有回饋給居民我們不是用回饋我們是汙染改善的方式來講對啊像他說他們住的地方是不是可以裝空氣清潔機\n536912\t557582\t給圖文報告所謂回饋這塊應該是事業單位或者開發單位他們去回饋啦那既然繳交這個公積金他公積金的使用他有一個這個法制規範那所以因為剛好這樣有收取這個碳費我希望這個碳費的部分到時候可以考量一下照顧一下我們這第一線受汙染的居民\n558598\t560381\t請部長,我們這部分希望嚴謹的時候把它納入。好,謝謝圖文的建議。好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝圖文。\n","txt":"委員發言好謝謝主席那請我們薛部長請薛部長好同仁好\n好 薛部長在上次質詢的時候我也跟你提過就是因為我們桃園工業區有非常多那之前也跟部長這邊報告我們桃園有36處的工業區那有登記的廠房大概有一萬兩千間那我想請問一下那我們桃園有一個比較老舊的工業區叫大園工業區大概有40年以上那\n他在2020年的時候很多的民眾反映然後很多的里長也反映就是那個工業區裡面常常有很多燒焦的味道還有酸味還有化學溶劑的味道那時候陳情那也非常多不知道後來我們針對這一部分部長知道我們這一部分我們環境部這邊要怎麼處理嗎因為當時叫環保署啦OK\n呃我是不是請我們黃管署嚴署長來報告因為大園這個工業區的確比較年代比較久遠齁沒關係那個看重點是看看圖文重點是要怎麼樣我們來因為我想了解一下因為這個案子從2020年民眾就已經陳情到現在那個時候陳情案件大概就有五六十件那不知道後面\n因為據我們了解好像說有成立專案計劃是嗎?那不知道計劃的成效如何?有專案計劃嗎?有掌握住嗎?主管是說議會那因為我覺得當地應該有一些監控的機制在進行當中才對對因為據我們了解環境部好像在2021年有成立專案計劃那\n所以環境部沒關係那這部分後面再給我們確實的詳細的書面報告那還有一個比較重點其實據我們了解好像後面確實是有一些成效那從2020年陳情案件56件後來到2022年的時候陳情案件就減到了25件最主要當初我們有舉發了告發了兩到三家然後後來\n懲棄案件減少的原因是因為說我們有用科技執法新的監控儀器所以它告發了13家表示這兩年中懲棄案件減少然後告發的廠商的業者的\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n檢舉空汙的、異味甚至水源汙染等等部分那是不是居然這些新的科技監控儀器有這種成效是不是可以推廣到其他的工業區去使用是的我想謝謝圖文的提醒我想特別是桃園這邊這個產業發展非常興旺那的確工業區的一個環境經常被人家詬病那透過科技執法\n來減低這些污染物的排放我覺得這個也是環境部的責任我們來了解一下那全力的來協定因為據我們了解好像有針對新型的像空氣品質感測器物聯網還有遠端水質監測所以它這個對空污跟水源好像可以很切實的掌控那因為其實我也知道這個在環保\n環保要檢舉、要舉發這些業者其實真的並不是那麼容易常常排放空屋的時候然後我們人員去到的時候就沒有了那常常民眾也有很多不好的想法說是不是跟業者跟我們這些環保局、環保署是不是有聯繫一檢舉就不排放\n當然我相信我們公務人員的清白啦那可是居然有這麼好的儀器為什麼不去廣泛的推動來使用切實的掌控這些空污增水源的問題那跟圖文報告事實上剛剛我們原署長有告訴我說桃園這一塊過去幾年事實上跟當地的里長合作相當密切所以很多包括舉報的這個部分我想也謝謝我們的里長能夠這個仗義執言勇敢的去\n以民眾的健康為福祉來我希望我們環境部剛剛講的目的就是希望居然這麼有成效為什麼不好好去推廣那這個儀器居然效果這麼好為什麼現在還很多說檢舉抓不到的問題是不是能夠切實去推廣這個儀器購買需要經費啦也希望土委員在我覺得如果真的有成效應該錢要花在刀口上能夠解決我們空污跟水源污染的問題好 謝謝\n好那今天主要這個碳費據我們了解昨天開這個第二次的會議好像針對這個碳費的收取部分好像還沒有達成共識是嗎?也不是所謂沒有達成共識啦他們事實上是有一些共識齁而且這個共識事實上是往良性的方向發展包括希望以科學基礎來定碳費而不是大家在那邊喊價去投票假如\n真的要給一個數字投票5分鐘我們就可以解決了但是環境部並沒有這樣做我們希望提供委員更這個完善的一些資訊讓他們去判斷當然也把CPI就是大宴這個提出了一個這個建議給納進去考量那你們預計大概什麼時候要來實施\n我想這一部分我們當然希望這個匯率審議委員會盡快啦但是也必須考量到整體的...可是之前好像有講說是不是要從明年2025年開始徵收?明年是收費啦當然這個土耳其人腳踝也有這種想法事實上我們也會來考量今年開徵但是是不是從某一個時間點開徵我覺得這個也是一個很好的一個折衷的方式\n可是我們知道以世界這個潮流征收這個碳費是勢在必行是勢在必行我們現在也擔心因為我們現在台灣這個電價現在又大幅的調漲那企業也很多也很擔心而且現在整個\n整個我們社會共識連這個整個徵收怎麼徵收多少噸費用等等好像都還沒有完全的一個標準而且業者也反映說那是不是有機會給他們一個緩衝期不知道部長針對這部分有什麼看法\n會納進去考量事實上我在某個程度蠻認同當初當然有一個理想的期待那假如客觀環境有改變環境部這邊來配合做一個調整對我們的產業衝擊影響可以減少同時對於我們在減碳的這個路徑上也是超著我們目標好那請問一下這個碳費的收取它裡面會不會有回饋在我們受污染第一線的居民這個部分事實上\n廣義的解釋或許可以用,用得上啊。所以有機會嘛,因為有很多民眾反映喔,這個費用的收取是不是他們這些第一線收屋產的。我覺得公正轉型事實上就有這個概念。這個凍結目的我覺得應該是有必要的啦。是,我覺得認同突然的。對,還有我們了解工業區裡面好像有一個空屋防治費,我們這空屋防治費一年大概收取多少錢?\n一年50億左右是吧?全台灣一年50億嗎?有一部分事實上是地方政府分配給地方環保機關那它這個費用收取的部分裡面有蹲青木林的費用嗎?有分怎麼樣?就是照顧附近受汙染的居民因為民眾有反映...跟委員報告我們收取的那個...\n空汙基金上面來講從固定汙染源有收一款那移動汙染也有收一款那另外是營建工程也收一款對有沒有回饋給居民我們不是用回饋我們是汙染改善的方式來講對啊像他說他們住的地方是不是可以裝空氣清潔機\n給圖文報告所謂回饋這塊應該是事業單位或者開發單位他們去回饋啦那既然繳交這個公積金他公積金的使用他有一個這個法制規範那所以因為剛好這樣有收取這個碳費我希望這個碳費的部分到時候可以考量一下照顧一下我們這第一線受汙染的居民\n請部長,我們這部分希望嚴謹的時候把它納入。好,謝謝圖文的建議。好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝圖文。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.183 --> 00:16.350\n委員發言好謝謝主席那請我們薛部長請薛部長好同仁好\n\n00:17.725 --> 00:45.583\n好薛部長在上次質詢的時候我也跟你提過就是因為我們桃園工業區有非常多那之前也跟部長這邊報告我們桃園有36處的工業區那有登記的廠房大概有一萬兩千間那我想請問一下那我們桃園有一個比較老舊的工業區叫大園工業區大概有40年以上那\n\n00:46.363 --> 01:10.426\n他在2020年的時候很多的民眾反映然後很多的里長也反映就是那個工業區裡面常常有很多燒焦的味道還有酸味還有化學溶劑的味道那時候陳情那也非常多不知道後來我們針對這一部分部長知道我們這一部分我們環境部這邊要怎麼處理嗎因為當時叫環保署啦OK\n\n01:11.938 --> 01:36.656\n呃我是不是請我們黃管署嚴署長來報告因為大園這個工業區的確比較年代比較久遠齁沒關係那個看重點是看看圖文重點是要怎麼樣我們來因為我想了解一下因為這個案子從2020年民眾就已經陳情到現在那個時候陳情案件大概就有五六十件那不知道後面\n\n01:37.637 --> 01:57.243\n因為據我們了解好像說有成立專案計劃是嗎?那不知道計劃的成效如何?有專案計劃嗎?有掌握住嗎?主管是說議會那因為我覺得當地應該有一些監控的機制在進行當中才對對因為據我們了解環境部好像在2021年有成立專案計劃那\n\n02:03.038 --> 02:21.552\n所以環境部沒關係那這部分後面再給我們確實的詳細的書面報告那還有一個比較重點其實據我們了解好像後面確實是有一些成效那從2020年陳情案件56件後來到2022年的時候陳情案件就減到了25件最主要當初我們有舉發了告發了兩到三家然後後來\n\n02:33.621 --> 02:50.189\n懲棄案件減少的原因是因為說我們有用科技執法新的監控儀器所以它告發了13家表示這兩年中懲棄案件減少然後告發的廠商的業者的\n\n02:51.681 --> 02:54.962\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n03:14.010 --> 03:33.783\n檢舉空汙的、異味甚至水源汙染等等部分那是不是居然這些新的科技監控儀器有這種成效是不是可以推廣到其他的工業區去使用是的我想謝謝圖文的提醒我想特別是桃園這邊這個產業發展非常興旺那的確工業區的一個環境經常被人家詬病那透過科技執法\n\n03:42.168 --> 04:06.854\n來減低這些污染物的排放我覺得這個也是環境部的責任我們來了解一下那全力的來協定因為據我們了解好像有針對新型的像空氣品質感測器物聯網還有遠端水質監測所以它這個對空污跟水源好像可以很切實的掌控那因為其實我也知道這個在環保\n\n04:07.814 --> 04:30.784\n環保要檢舉、要舉發這些業者其實真的並不是那麼容易常常排放空屋的時候然後我們人員去到的時候就沒有了那常常民眾也有很多不好的想法說是不是跟業者跟我們這些環保局、環保署是不是有聯繫一檢舉就不排放\n\n04:31.224 --> 05:00.265\n當然我相信我們公務人員的清白啦那可是居然有這麼好的儀器為什麼不去廣泛的推動來使用切實的掌控這些空污增水源的問題那跟圖文報告事實上剛剛我們原署長有告訴我說桃園這一塊過去幾年事實上跟當地的里長合作相當密切所以很多包括舉報的這個部分我想也謝謝我們的里長能夠這個仗義執言勇敢的去\n\n05:01.565 --> 05:28.299\n以民眾的健康為福祉來我希望我們環境部剛剛講的目的就是希望居然這麼有成效為什麼不好好去推廣那這個儀器居然效果這麼好為什麼現在還很多說檢舉抓不到的問題是不是能夠切實去推廣這個儀器購買需要經費啦也希望土委員在我覺得如果真的有成效應該錢要花在刀口上能夠解決我們空污跟水源污染的問題好謝謝\n\n05:29.420 --> 05:57.047\n好那今天主要這個碳費據我們了解昨天開這個第二次的會議好像針對這個碳費的收取部分好像還沒有達成共識是嗎?也不是所謂沒有達成共識啦他們事實上是有一些共識齁而且這個共識事實上是往良性的方向發展包括希望以科學基礎來定碳費而不是大家在那邊喊價去投票假如\n\n05:57.947 --> 06:18.024\n真的要給一個數字投票5分鐘我們就可以解決了但是環境部並沒有這樣做我們希望提供委員更這個完善的一些資訊讓他們去判斷當然也把CPI就是大宴這個提出了一個這個建議給納進去考量那你們預計大概什麼時候要來實施\n\n06:19.325 --> 06:46.537\n我想這一部分我們當然希望這個匯率審議委員會盡快啦但是也必須考量到整體的...可是之前好像有講說是不是要從明年2025年開始徵收?明年是收費啦當然這個土耳其人腳踝也有這種想法事實上我們也會來考量今年開徵但是是不是從某一個時間點開徵我覺得這個也是一個很好的一個折衷的方式\n\n06:46.857 --> 07:03.146\n可是我們知道以世界這個潮流征收這個碳費是勢在必行是勢在必行我們現在也擔心因為我們現在台灣這個電價現在又大幅的調漲那企業也很多也很擔心而且現在整個\n\n07:04.207 --> 07:17.968\n整個我們社會共識連這個整個徵收怎麼徵收多少噸費用等等好像都還沒有完全的一個標準而且業者也反映說那是不是有機會給他們一個緩衝期不知道部長針對這部分有什麼看法\n\n07:19.990 --> 07:48.155\n會納進去考量事實上我在某個程度蠻認同當初當然有一個理想的期待那假如客觀環境有改變環境部這邊來配合做一個調整對我們的產業衝擊影響可以減少同時對於我們在減碳的這個路徑上也是超著我們目標好那請問一下這個碳費的收取它裡面會不會有回饋在我們受污染第一線的居民這個部分事實上\n\n07:49.734 --> 08:13.414\n廣義的解釋或許可以用,用得上啊。所以有機會嘛,因為有很多民眾反映喔,這個費用的收取是不是他們這些第一線收屋產的。我覺得公正轉型事實上就有這個概念。這個凍結目的我覺得應該是有必要的啦。是,我覺得認同突然的。對,還有我們了解工業區裡面好像有一個空屋防治費,我們這空屋防治費一年大概收取多少錢?\n\n08:14.684 --> 08:34.853\n一年50億左右是吧?全台灣一年50億嗎?有一部分事實上是地方政府分配給地方環保機關那它這個費用收取的部分裡面有蹲青木林的費用嗎?有分怎麼樣?就是照顧附近受汙染的居民因為民眾有反映...跟委員報告我們收取的那個...\n\n08:39.399 --> 08:54.428\n空汙基金上面來講從固定汙染源有收一款那移動汙染也有收一款那另外是營建工程也收一款對有沒有回饋給居民我們不是用回饋我們是汙染改善的方式來講對啊像他說他們住的地方是不是可以裝空氣清潔機\n\n08:56.912 --> 09:17.582\n給圖文報告所謂回饋這塊應該是事業單位或者開發單位他們去回饋啦那既然繳交這個公積金他公積金的使用他有一個這個法制規範那所以因為剛好這樣有收取這個碳費我希望這個碳費的部分到時候可以考量一下照顧一下我們這第一線受汙染的居民\n\n09:18.598 --> 09:20.381\n請部長,我們這部分希望嚴謹的時候把它納入。好,謝謝圖文的建議。好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝圖文。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.183,"end":16.35,"text":"委員發言好謝謝主席那請我們薛部長請薛部長好同仁好"},{"start":17.725,"end":45.583,"text":"好 薛部長在上次質詢的時候我也跟你提過就是因為我們桃園工業區有非常多那之前也跟部長這邊報告我們桃園有36處的工業區那有登記的廠房大概有一萬兩千間那我想請問一下那我們桃園有一個比較老舊的工業區叫大園工業區大概有40年以上那"},{"start":46.363,"end":70.426,"text":"他在2020年的時候很多的民眾反映然後很多的里長也反映就是那個工業區裡面常常有很多燒焦的味道還有酸味還有化學溶劑的味道那時候陳情那也非常多不知道後來我們針對這一部分部長知道我們這一部分我們環境部這邊要怎麼處理嗎因為當時叫環保署啦OK"},{"start":71.938,"end":96.656,"text":"呃我是不是請我們黃管署嚴署長來報告因為大園這個工業區的確比較年代比較久遠齁沒關係那個看重點是看看圖文重點是要怎麼樣我們來因為我想了解一下因為這個案子從2020年民眾就已經陳情到現在那個時候陳情案件大概就有五六十件那不知道後面"},{"start":97.637,"end":117.243,"text":"因為據我們了解好像說有成立專案計劃是嗎?那不知道計劃的成效如何?有專案計劃嗎?有掌握住嗎?主管是說議會那因為我覺得當地應該有一些監控的機制在進行當中才對對因為據我們了解環境部好像在2021年有成立專案計劃那"},{"start":123.038,"end":141.552,"text":"所以環境部沒關係那這部分後面再給我們確實的詳細的書面報告那還有一個比較重點其實據我們了解好像後面確實是有一些成效那從2020年陳情案件56件後來到2022年的時候陳情案件就減到了25件最主要當初我們有舉發了告發了兩到三家然後後來"},{"start":153.621,"end":170.189,"text":"懲棄案件減少的原因是因為說我們有用科技執法新的監控儀器所以它告發了13家表示這兩年中懲棄案件減少然後告發的廠商的業者的"},{"start":171.681,"end":174.962,"text":"二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":194.01,"end":213.783,"text":"檢舉空汙的、異味甚至水源汙染等等部分那是不是居然這些新的科技監控儀器有這種成效是不是可以推廣到其他的工業區去使用是的我想謝謝圖文的提醒我想特別是桃園這邊這個產業發展非常興旺那的確工業區的一個環境經常被人家詬病那透過科技執法"},{"start":222.168,"end":246.854,"text":"來減低這些污染物的排放我覺得這個也是環境部的責任我們來了解一下那全力的來協定因為據我們了解好像有針對新型的像空氣品質感測器物聯網還有遠端水質監測所以它這個對空污跟水源好像可以很切實的掌控那因為其實我也知道這個在環保"},{"start":247.814,"end":270.784,"text":"環保要檢舉、要舉發這些業者其實真的並不是那麼容易常常排放空屋的時候然後我們人員去到的時候就沒有了那常常民眾也有很多不好的想法說是不是跟業者跟我們這些環保局、環保署是不是有聯繫一檢舉就不排放"},{"start":271.224,"end":300.265,"text":"當然我相信我們公務人員的清白啦那可是居然有這麼好的儀器為什麼不去廣泛的推動來使用切實的掌控這些空污增水源的問題那跟圖文報告事實上剛剛我們原署長有告訴我說桃園這一塊過去幾年事實上跟當地的里長合作相當密切所以很多包括舉報的這個部分我想也謝謝我們的里長能夠這個仗義執言勇敢的去"},{"start":301.565,"end":328.299,"text":"以民眾的健康為福祉來我希望我們環境部剛剛講的目的就是希望居然這麼有成效為什麼不好好去推廣那這個儀器居然效果這麼好為什麼現在還很多說檢舉抓不到的問題是不是能夠切實去推廣這個儀器購買需要經費啦也希望土委員在我覺得如果真的有成效應該錢要花在刀口上能夠解決我們空污跟水源污染的問題好 謝謝"},{"start":329.42,"end":357.047,"text":"好那今天主要這個碳費據我們了解昨天開這個第二次的會議好像針對這個碳費的收取部分好像還沒有達成共識是嗎?也不是所謂沒有達成共識啦他們事實上是有一些共識齁而且這個共識事實上是往良性的方向發展包括希望以科學基礎來定碳費而不是大家在那邊喊價去投票假如"},{"start":357.947,"end":378.024,"text":"真的要給一個數字投票5分鐘我們就可以解決了但是環境部並沒有這樣做我們希望提供委員更這個完善的一些資訊讓他們去判斷當然也把CPI就是大宴這個提出了一個這個建議給納進去考量那你們預計大概什麼時候要來實施"},{"start":379.325,"end":406.537,"text":"我想這一部分我們當然希望這個匯率審議委員會盡快啦但是也必須考量到整體的...可是之前好像有講說是不是要從明年2025年開始徵收?明年是收費啦當然這個土耳其人腳踝也有這種想法事實上我們也會來考量今年開徵但是是不是從某一個時間點開徵我覺得這個也是一個很好的一個折衷的方式"},{"start":406.857,"end":423.146,"text":"可是我們知道以世界這個潮流征收這個碳費是勢在必行是勢在必行我們現在也擔心因為我們現在台灣這個電價現在又大幅的調漲那企業也很多也很擔心而且現在整個"},{"start":424.207,"end":437.968,"text":"整個我們社會共識連這個整個徵收怎麼徵收多少噸費用等等好像都還沒有完全的一個標準而且業者也反映說那是不是有機會給他們一個緩衝期不知道部長針對這部分有什麼看法"},{"start":439.99,"end":468.155,"text":"會納進去考量事實上我在某個程度蠻認同當初當然有一個理想的期待那假如客觀環境有改變環境部這邊來配合做一個調整對我們的產業衝擊影響可以減少同時對於我們在減碳的這個路徑上也是超著我們目標好那請問一下這個碳費的收取它裡面會不會有回饋在我們受污染第一線的居民這個部分事實上"},{"start":469.734,"end":493.414,"text":"廣義的解釋或許可以用,用得上啊。所以有機會嘛,因為有很多民眾反映喔,這個費用的收取是不是他們這些第一線收屋產的。我覺得公正轉型事實上就有這個概念。這個凍結目的我覺得應該是有必要的啦。是,我覺得認同突然的。對,還有我們了解工業區裡面好像有一個空屋防治費,我們這空屋防治費一年大概收取多少錢?"},{"start":494.684,"end":514.853,"text":"一年50億左右是吧?全台灣一年50億嗎?有一部分事實上是地方政府分配給地方環保機關那它這個費用收取的部分裡面有蹲青木林的費用嗎?有分怎麼樣?就是照顧附近受汙染的居民因為民眾有反映...跟委員報告我們收取的那個..."},{"start":519.399,"end":534.428,"text":"空汙基金上面來講從固定汙染源有收一款那移動汙染也有收一款那另外是營建工程也收一款對有沒有回饋給居民我們不是用回饋我們是汙染改善的方式來講對啊像他說他們住的地方是不是可以裝空氣清潔機"},{"start":536.912,"end":557.582,"text":"給圖文報告所謂回饋這塊應該是事業單位或者開發單位他們去回饋啦那既然繳交這個公積金他公積金的使用他有一個這個法制規範那所以因為剛好這樣有收取這個碳費我希望這個碳費的部分到時候可以考量一下照顧一下我們這第一線受汙染的居民"},{"start":558.598,"end":560.381,"text":"請部長,我們這部分希望嚴謹的時候把它納入。好,謝謝圖文的建議。好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝圖文。"}]}}}}