{"id":150465,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150465","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5eea5dc5b92586fe9a3d9204d572e03aff8ba9b0039caa7a6b47c9dd9d13e91bd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:24:45 - 10:34:02","影片長度":"00:09:17","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案(含報告事項45案及討論事項4案)。【如經復議則不予處理或審查】\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】\n【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":557,"end_time":"2024-03-27T10:34:02+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T10:24:45+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":434,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（10時24分）謝謝主席，有請我們薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：廖委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長好。部長，在進入今天的專題之前，剛好昨天發生一件大家高度注目的案情，是有關在臺北市信義A13那裡有疑似爆發大規模食安中毒的事件，目前有9起案例，1人死亡，2人命危，這起食物中毒已經累計了9名，醫院通報6名，陳情3例，大部分人都有食用到所謂的炒粿條，除了1名死亡之外，還有2人在加護病房葉克膜急救，我有看到新聞說是腎衰竭，就是看起來是相對疑似這種中毒的、可能是化學等等的問題，當然現在都還在調查中，可是依據環境部所主掌食安五環業務也有所謂的源頭管控，為了避免被不肖業者利用化學物質再添加到食品中，因此，對於食安有疑慮的化學物，目前中央也有我們環境部嚴密的追蹤機制，用來監督這57種具有食安風險疑慮的化學物質的流向。所以我想要請問一下這個部分，你們現在有沒有持續追蹤有關於這57種化學物質的疑慮？"],["薛部長富盛：跟委員報告，事實上，擁有這57種食安風險的化學物質，他們的運作必須要環境部核可才可以，而且要把運作計畫書送到環境部，它每一個月要去化學雲登記，把目前的情況都在資料上面呈現。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，我今天前面趕快講一個時事題，就是希望再次提醒我們臺灣近期已經有太多的食安事件，而且看到這次更加的恐怖，所以也要提醒環境部這個業務還要持續的、更緊密的追蹤。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝廖委員提醒。"],["廖委員偉翔：然後有必要的話，甚至主動提供數據給我們的檢調。","再來我們進入到今天的主題，部長，我們的碳費費率審議委員會在3月15號才開第一次會，昨天召開第二次，我們看了新聞稿之後，請問部長為什麼要這麼晚才召開？這兩次有達到任何實質的結論嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上他們有一些共識，結論的部分當然有，但不是定出碳費的費率，這沒有馬上出來，這個當然跟我們當初的預期有一點落差，但是反而是往好的方向走，是正面看待。"],["廖委員偉翔：那我問部長，媒體報導說4月份要再開一場，有確定時間了嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：還沒有，我們氣候署現在在調查時間。"],["廖委員偉翔：因為我看你們這兩場會議都還在蒐集國外資料喔？"],["薛部長富盛：不是啦！事實上，媒體報導有……事實上這些資料都有了啦！有一些委員要求更多的資料，我們再補充啦！"],["廖委員偉翔：請問部長，看起來520之前是不是根本不會有結論？會不會是要拖到520之後才會掀底牌？"],["薛部長富盛：我覺得我們沒有把520當作一個時間點，我想應該是讓碳費費率審議委員會來決定。"],["廖委員偉翔：因為看起來整個時程都是嚴重的拖和跳票，讓我們感覺到我們的部會會不會是因為520到了，有520焦慮症，很多事情不敢提早趕快做決定。"],["薛部長富盛：不會。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以已經審議兩次都沒有結論，本來這一季說要承諾，也已經確定跳票。"],["薛部長富盛：不會。"],["廖委員偉翔：如果520後才要真的處理，會不會代表我們要第三季、第四季才會有結論？"],["薛部長富盛：不會，跟廖委員報告，所有環境部該做的事情從來不會因為520的因素去考量。我跟廖委員報告，我在剛剛前面幾位委員的詢答中也提到，本來美國的清潔競爭法案（CCA）在去年提出說要來實施也都完全沒有，歐盟的CBAM細節也是一樣……"],["廖委員偉翔：好，部長，我想要跟你表達的是現在企業界非常的著急，所以企業界瀰漫著碳焦慮。"],["薛部長富盛：我可以感同身受。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，所以所有的問題都跟這個費率有很大的影響，部長，我們碳費率制定的過程基本上可以分為沙灘區、淺水區、深水區，可是現在進度根本就還在沙灘區嘛，還沒有到淺水區，所以企業完全沒有辦法估算成本，連明年的預算要怎麼編都不知道。"],["薛部長富盛：不會啦！"],["廖委員偉翔：所以想要跟部長說，如果你是企業的CEO，你有辦法忍受嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：跟廖委員報告，事實上那550家或廠，在兩年前環境部即那時候的環保署就已經知會了，所以他們才能夠有碳盤查的動作。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，現在因為這個進度落後會影響到四個層面，也就是企業成本難以預估，然後影響我們的碳交易量，也干擾和歐盟協商的CBAM，以及碳洩漏的疑慮，這四個面向都是因為我們碳費喬不定，不是嗎？所以部長……"],["薛部長富盛：不全然是。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，但是我們企業需要永續經營，所以大家都需要規劃未來五年、十年的長期規劃，所以碳費這件事情其實早就知道了，企業界和人民其實也必須體認到碳有價時代的來臨，且企業還要依循、要估算，可是現在卻卡在行政部門，你不覺得行政部門效率太差了嗎？當然我瞭解部長你們認為要很審慎的評估，我還是要提醒部長這個時程還是必須要趕快出來。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：因為你說2025年要徵了嘛，對不對？要開收了嘛？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來要問部長，本席知道碳費未來不僅在各國國內會開始開徵，也會進一步的在國際之間皆要求所有進口產品需要加徵所謂的碳關稅，雖然目前臺灣還沒有辦理碳關稅的部分，但是你的立場有透過你的公開發行紀錄，大家也都很清楚，你曾經說過公平貿易的原則，你支持……"],["薛部長富盛：支持。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，你支持這個部分，但是在企業以新的綠色商品取代舊有經營模式的時候，無形中也會推升很多大宗商品的價格，也會讓很多企業的外部成本內部化，也會轉嫁給上、下游，甚至到消費者。因此，企業買這個碳權、碳費的相關成本會帶來物價上漲的壓力，也就是所謂的綠色通膨。這就是為什麼兩週前環境部來衛環委員會做業務報告時，我們通過這個臨時提案希望要考量到CPI的部分，主計處也有將減碳政策對於國內經濟跟物價的影響納入通膨的不確定因素之中。","所以我們想要說的事情就是，這個部分你們辦理的進度或者是心態上，你們是怎麼樣去重視這件事情？"],["薛部長富盛：跟廖委員報告，我們完全尊重，也認同大院的決議，所以事實上也有把CPI這個因素請委員會在審議的時候要納進去考量。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以本席想請問，你們的考量有沒有很實際的估算到如果開徵之後會讓CPI漲多少？會連續漲幾年？這部分就是外界一直很擔心的綠色通膨，未來有沒有計畫要將部分的收益返還給社會大眾，以減輕碳費對於低收入家庭的影響？然後政府又要怎麼保證在這過程中所有的透明度跟公正性？"],["薛部長富盛：跟廖委員報告，事實上氣候法裡面有提到公正轉型的部分，所以當然就會把它納進去考量。至於費率審議委員會實質上要怎麼把CPI的因素納進去，我會請我們同仁在委員會裡面特別提醒委員可以納進去考量。"],["廖委員偉翔：我也具體建議一下部長，因為你們在碳費費率的經濟衝擊的評估方法裡面，這是應該要做的沒有錯，現在看起來是環境部在主導，可是這個是對於經濟衝擊的評估，經濟部不應該用更高的層級來做跨部會的協調及評估嗎？所以我最後的具體建議是，這個部分也請部長回去參考，因為這個東西也茲事體大。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：這個算起來，我看到你們那個碳的量，假設用所謂的10美元去算的話，一開始每年至少是15.5億美金以上的費用，所以這個部分也要拜託我們的部長。"],["薛部長富盛：會，謝謝廖委員，我們跟經濟部的互動相當好，謝謝。"],["廖委員偉翔：謝謝。"],["主席（王委員正旭代）：謝謝廖委員的發言，現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時34分）","繼續開會（10時44分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","請第9號的王育敏委員發言，王委員請。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-9","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","陳菁徽","劉建國","盧縣一","陳昭姿","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","洪申翰","李彥秀","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","黃國昌","陳冠廷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132102_00002","1132102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍\n結案49案（含報告事項45案及討論事項4案）（前接第一冊）","agenda_id":"1132102_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150465","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150465","tool":"pyannote","id":"150465-pyannote"},"job_id":"gbZATN5UvyZRFj6T","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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113.115, \"end\": 113.275, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 113.275, \"end\": 113.436, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"呈\", \"start\": 113.436, \"end\": 113.456, \"score\": 0.173}, {\"word\": \"現\"}]}, {\"start\": 114.016, \"end\": 133.834, \"text\": \"是,我今天前面趕快講一個實事題就是希望再次提醒我們近期台灣已經有太多的這個食安的事件而且這是看到更加的恐怖所以也要提醒就是我們環境部這個部分這個業務還要持續的更緊密的追蹤然後有必要的話甚至主動的提供這個數據可能給我們的檢調那再來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 114.016, \"end\": 114.236, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 114.236, \"end\": 114.376, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 114.376, \"end\": 114.517, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 114.517, \"end\": 114.937, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 114.937, \"end\": 115.057, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 115.057, \"end\": 115.277, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"趕\"}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 115.277, \"end\": 115.858, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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153.17, \"text\": \"部長我們進入到我們今天的主題部長我們的碳費費率審議委員會在3月15號才開第一次會昨天召開第二次我們看了新聞稿之後就請問部長為什麼要這麼晚才召開這兩次有達到任何實質的結論嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 138.138, \"end\": 138.378, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 138.378, \"end\": 138.719, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 138.719, \"end\": 138.899, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 138.899, \"end\": 139.059, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 139.059, \"end\": 139.279, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 139.279, \"end\": 139.379, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 139.379, \"end\": 139.539, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 139.539, \"end\": 139.699, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 139.699, \"end\": 140.78, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 140.78, \"end\": 141.02, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", 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{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 173.453, \"end\": 173.773, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 173.773, \"end\": 174.054, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 174.054, \"end\": 174.114, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 174.114, \"end\": 174.134, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 175.551, \"end\": 191.848, \"text\": \"呃還沒有內現在在我們氣候署在調查時間因為我看你們這兩場會議都還在收集這個國外資料喔喔不是啦事實上媒體報導有有事實上這些資料都有了齁那這個有些委員有要求更多的資料那我們再補充啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"呃\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 175.551, \"end\": 175.672, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 175.672, \"end\": 176.152, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 176.152, \"end\": 176.833, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 176.833, \"end\": 177.233, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 177.233, \"end\": 177.614, \"score\": 0.895}, 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191.828, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 191.828, \"end\": 191.848, \"score\": 0.086}]}, {\"start\": 192.576, \"end\": 219.378, \"text\": \"來請問部長這個看起來是不是520之前根本不會有結論會不會是要拖到520之後才會先底牌我覺得我們沒有把520當作一個這個時間點我想應該是讓碳類匯率審議委員會來決定因為看起來整個時程都是嚴重的拖和跳票這個讓我們感覺到我們的部會會不會是因為520到了會有520焦慮症很多事情不敢提早趕快做決定\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 192.576, \"end\": 193.777, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 193.777, \"end\": 193.977, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 193.977, \"end\": 194.238, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 194.238, \"end\": 194.318, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 194.318, \"end\": 194.418, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 194.418, \"end\": 195.038, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 195.038, \"end\": 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219.038, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"趕\"}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 219.038, \"end\": 219.198, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 219.198, \"end\": 219.358, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 219.358, \"end\": 219.378, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 220.319, \"end\": 244.822, \"text\": \"所以兩次已經審議都沒有結論本來這一季說要承諾也算是已經確定跳票那是不是520後才要真的處理會不會代表我們要第3季第4季才有結論給廖委員報告所有環境部該做的事情從來不會因為520的因素去考量那我跟廖委員報告我剛剛在前面幾位委員的行答中也提到\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 220.319, \"end\": 220.459, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 220.459, \"end\": 221.08, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 221.08, \"end\": 221.36, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 221.36, \"end\": 221.981, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 221.981, \"end\": 222.101, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 222.101, \"end\": 222.201, \"score\": 0.8}, 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\"start\": 550.075, \"end\": 550.515, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 550.515, \"end\": 550.635, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 550.635, \"end\": 550.755, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"互\", \"start\": 550.755, \"end\": 551.115, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 551.115, \"end\": 551.436, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 551.436, \"end\": 551.516, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 551.516, \"end\": 551.536, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,097 --> 00:00:09,561\n主席有請我們學部長請學部長部長好部長在這個進入今天的專題之前喔剛好昨天發生一件大家高度注目的案情\n\n2\n00:00:21,758 --> 00:00:35,372\n有關我們的這個臺北市在新義A13那裡有疑似爆發這個大規模食安中毒的事件目前有9起案例一人死亡兩人命危那這起食物中毒已經有累計9名醫院通報6名陳情3例\n\n3\n00:00:38,855 --> 00:00:56,973\n那大部分人都有吃到使用到這個所謂的草果籽草果條所以除了一名死亡之外還有兩人在加護病房葉克膜急救那因為我有看到新聞有說到是腎衰竭就看起來是相對疑似這種中毒的可能是化學啊等等的問題當然現在都還在調查中\n\n4\n00:00:58,795 --> 00:01:21,036\n可是環境部依據環境部所組長食安五環業務也有這個所謂的源頭管控為了避免被不肖業者利用化學物質再添加到食品中因此對於這個食安有疑慮的化學物目前中央也有我們環境部嚴密的追蹤機制用來監督這個57種具有食安風險疑慮的化學物質的流向\n\n5\n00:01:21,917 --> 00:01:25,882\n所以我想要請問一下這個部分你們現在有沒有持續在追蹤有關於這57種的化學物質的疑慮?\n\n6\n00:01:30,377 --> 00:01:53,456\n給委員報告事實上擁有這57種食安風險的化學物質他們必須要運作要許環境部有合格才可以而且要把運作計畫書要送到環境部那每一個月事實上他要去化學營去登記把目前的情況都在這個資料上面呈現\n\n7\n00:01:54,016 --> 00:02:13,834\n是,我今天前面趕快講一個實事題就是希望再次提醒我們近期台灣已經有太多的這個食安的事件而且這是看到更加的恐怖所以也要提醒就是我們環境部這個部分這個業務還要持續的更緊密的追蹤然後有必要的話甚至主動的提供這個數據可能給我們的檢調那再來\n\n8\n00:02:18,138 --> 00:02:33,170\n部長我們進入到我們今天的主題部長我們的碳費費率審議委員會在3月15號才開第一次會昨天召開第二次我們看了新聞稿之後就請問部長為什麼要這麼晚才召開這兩次有達到任何實質的結論嗎\n\n9\n00:02:35,104 --> 00:02:54,134\n事實上他們有一些共識那結論的部分當然有但是不是給碳費的費力沒有馬上出來這個當然跟我們當初的議期有一點落差但是反而是往好的方向走那我問部長媒體報導說4月份要再開一場有確定時間了嗎\n\n10\n00:02:55,551 --> 00:03:11,848\n呃還沒有內現在在我們氣候署在調查時間因為我看你們這兩場會議都還在收集這個國外資料喔喔不是啦事實上媒體報導有有事實上這些資料都有了齁那這個有些委員有要求更多的資料那我們再補充啦\n\n11\n00:03:12,576 --> 00:03:39,378\n來請問部長這個看起來是不是520之前根本不會有結論會不會是要拖到520之後才會先底牌我覺得我們沒有把520當作一個這個時間點我想應該是讓碳類匯率審議委員會來決定因為看起來整個時程都是嚴重的拖和跳票這個讓我們感覺到我們的部會會不會是因為520到了會有520焦慮症很多事情不敢提早趕快做決定\n\n12\n00:03:40,319 --> 00:04:04,822\n所以兩次已經審議都沒有結論本來這一季說要承諾也算是已經確定跳票那是不是520後才要真的處理會不會代表我們要第3季第4季才有結論給廖委員報告所有環境部該做的事情從來不會因為520的因素去考量那我跟廖委員報告我剛剛在前面幾位委員的行答中也提到\n\n13\n00:04:05,603 --> 00:04:30,914\n美國本來CCA就是它的清潔清淨競爭法案要在去年提出來說要說要來實施也都完全沒有是部長國盟的西邊細節也是好來部長我想要跟你表達的是現在喔這個企業界非常的著急所以企業界瀰漫著這個叫做碳焦慮我可以感同身受對所以這個東西有所有的問題都跟這個費率有很大的影響喔所以我們\n\n14\n00:04:31,974 --> 00:04:51,993\n部長我們碳費率制定這個過程基本上可以分為沙灘區、潛水區、深水區可是現在進度根本就還在沙灘區嘛還沒有到潛水區所以企業完全沒有辦法估算成本連明年的預算要怎麼編都不知道所以就是想要跟部長說如果你是企業的CEO你有辦法忍受嗎\n\n15\n00:04:52,754 --> 00:05:13,307\n給廖委員報告事實上那550家或廠在兩年前環境部那時候環保署就已經知會了所以他們才能夠有碳盤部長現在因為這個進度落後會影響到四個層面也就是我們企業成本難以預估然後影響我們的碳交易量\n\n16\n00:05:14,295 --> 00:05:17,077\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度\n\n17\n00:05:40,131 --> 00:06:07,654\n也就是也必須也有體認到碳有價時代的來臨可是我們企業還是要依循要估算可是現在卻卡在行政部門你不覺得行政部門效率太差了嗎所以當然我了解到部長這個是你們是需要這個很你們認為要很審慎的評估可是你這個時程我還是要提醒部長還是必須要趕快出來因為你說2025年要要增了嘛對不對要開收了嘛是所以再來要問部長喔是\n\n18\n00:06:09,795 --> 00:06:33,589\n我們本席知道這個碳費未來不僅在各國國內會開始開徵也會再進一步在國際之間就有要求所有的進口產品需要這個加徵所謂的碳關稅雖然我們目前台灣還沒有辦理這個部分碳關稅但是你的立場有透過你的公開發言記錄大家也都很清楚你曾經說過公平貿易的原則你支持在對你支持這個部分\n\n19\n00:06:34,329 --> 00:06:49,237\n但是至少在企業以新的綠色商品取代舊有經營模式的時候無形中也會推升了很多的大眾商品的價格也會讓很多的成本企業外部成本內部化也會轉嫁給我們上下游甚至到消費者\n\n20\n00:06:50,077 --> 00:06:57,143\n因此企業買這個碳權付碳費的這個相關成本會帶來的物價上漲的壓力也就是所謂綠色通膨說到這裡就是為什麼兩週前我們這個衛環這裡希望環境部來業務報告時通過這個臨時提案要考量到CPI的部分那主基處也有明將這個減碳政策對於國內經濟跟物價的影響納入通膨的不確定因素之中\n\n21\n00:07:17,159 --> 00:07:39,031\n所以我們想要說的事情就是這個部分你們辦理的進度或者是你們的這個心態上面你們是怎麼樣去重視這件事情給廖委員報告我們完全尊重也認同這個大宴的決議所以事實上也把CPI的這個因素有請委員會在審議的時候要納進去考量\n\n22\n00:07:40,168 --> 00:08:04,847\n那所以就想要請問喔你們的考量有沒有很實際的估算到如果開徵之後會讓CPI漲多少會連續漲幾年這部分就是外界一直很擔心的這個綠色通膨那未來有沒有計畫要將部分的收益返還給社會大眾以減輕這個碳費對於低收入家庭的影響然後政府要怎麼保證在這一過程中所有的這個透明度跟公正性\n\n23\n00:08:06,227 --> 00:08:08,950\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n24\n00:08:24,545 --> 00:08:40,839\n這個委員會裡面特別是提醒委員可以納進去考量我也具體建議一下部長因為你們在這個碳費費率的經濟衝擊的評估方法裡面這是應該要做的沒有錯可是現在看起來是環境部在主導可是這個對於經濟衝擊的評估不應該是這個經濟部應該用更高的層級來跨部會的來協調和去評估嘛\n\n25\n00:08:46,804 --> 00:09:11,536\n所以我最後的具體建議是說這個部分也請我們部長回去參考因為這個東西也姿勢體大這個算起來每年至少一開始至少是15.5億美金以上的這個費用我看到你們的那個碳的量如果假設用這個所謂的10美元去算的話所以這個部分也要拜託我們的部長謝謝廖委員我們跟經濟部的互動相當的好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7097\t9561\t主席有請我們學部長請學部長部長好部長在這個進入今天的專題之前喔剛好昨天發生一件大家高度注目的案情\n21758\t35372\t有關我們的這個臺北市在新義A13那裡有疑似爆發這個大規模食安中毒的事件目前有9起案例一人死亡兩人命危那這起食物中毒已經有累計9名醫院通報6名陳情3例\n38855\t56973\t那大部分人都有吃到使用到這個所謂的草果籽草果條所以除了一名死亡之外還有兩人在加護病房葉克膜急救那因為我有看到新聞有說到是腎衰竭就看起來是相對疑似這種中毒的可能是化學啊等等的問題當然現在都還在調查中\n58795\t81036\t可是環境部依據環境部所組長食安五環業務也有這個所謂的源頭管控為了避免被不肖業者利用化學物質再添加到食品中因此對於這個食安有疑慮的化學物目前中央也有我們環境部嚴密的追蹤機制用來監督這個57種具有食安風險疑慮的化學物質的流向\n81917\t85882\t所以我想要請問一下這個部分你們現在有沒有持續在追蹤有關於這57種的化學物質的疑慮?\n90377\t113456\t給委員報告事實上擁有這57種食安風險的化學物質他們必須要運作要許環境部有合格才可以而且要把運作計畫書要送到環境部那每一個月事實上他要去化學營去登記把目前的情況都在這個資料上面呈現\n114016\t133834\t是,我今天前面趕快講一個實事題就是希望再次提醒我們近期台灣已經有太多的這個食安的事件而且這是看到更加的恐怖所以也要提醒就是我們環境部這個部分這個業務還要持續的更緊密的追蹤然後有必要的話甚至主動的提供這個數據可能給我們的檢調那再來\n138138\t153170\t部長我們進入到我們今天的主題部長我們的碳費費率審議委員會在3月15號才開第一次會昨天召開第二次我們看了新聞稿之後就請問部長為什麼要這麼晚才召開這兩次有達到任何實質的結論嗎\n155104\t174134\t事實上他們有一些共識那結論的部分當然有但是不是給碳費的費力沒有馬上出來這個當然跟我們當初的議期有一點落差但是反而是往好的方向走那我問部長媒體報導說4月份要再開一場有確定時間了嗎\n175551\t191848\t呃還沒有內現在在我們氣候署在調查時間因為我看你們這兩場會議都還在收集這個國外資料喔喔不是啦事實上媒體報導有有事實上這些資料都有了齁那這個有些委員有要求更多的資料那我們再補充啦\n192576\t219378\t來請問部長這個看起來是不是520之前根本不會有結論會不會是要拖到520之後才會先底牌我覺得我們沒有把520當作一個這個時間點我想應該是讓碳類匯率審議委員會來決定因為看起來整個時程都是嚴重的拖和跳票這個讓我們感覺到我們的部會會不會是因為520到了會有520焦慮症很多事情不敢提早趕快做決定\n220319\t244822\t所以兩次已經審議都沒有結論本來這一季說要承諾也算是已經確定跳票那是不是520後才要真的處理會不會代表我們要第3季第4季才有結論給廖委員報告所有環境部該做的事情從來不會因為520的因素去考量那我跟廖委員報告我剛剛在前面幾位委員的行答中也提到\n245603\t270914\t美國本來CCA就是它的清潔清淨競爭法案要在去年提出來說要說要來實施也都完全沒有是部長國盟的西邊細節也是好來部長我想要跟你表達的是現在喔這個企業界非常的著急所以企業界瀰漫著這個叫做碳焦慮我可以感同身受對所以這個東西有所有的問題都跟這個費率有很大的影響喔所以我們\n271974\t291993\t部長我們碳費率制定這個過程基本上可以分為沙灘區、潛水區、深水區可是現在進度根本就還在沙灘區嘛還沒有到潛水區所以企業完全沒有辦法估算成本連明年的預算要怎麼編都不知道所以就是想要跟部長說如果你是企業的CEO你有辦法忍受嗎\n292754\t313307\t給廖委員報告事實上那550家或廠在兩年前環境部那時候環保署就已經知會了所以他們才能夠有碳盤部長現在因為這個進度落後會影響到四個層面也就是我們企業成本難以預估然後影響我們的碳交易量\n314295\t317077\t二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度\n340131\t367654\t也就是也必須也有體認到碳有價時代的來臨可是我們企業還是要依循要估算可是現在卻卡在行政部門你不覺得行政部門效率太差了嗎所以當然我了解到部長這個是你們是需要這個很你們認為要很審慎的評估可是你這個時程我還是要提醒部長還是必須要趕快出來因為你說2025年要要增了嘛對不對要開收了嘛是所以再來要問部長喔是\n369795\t393589\t我們本席知道這個碳費未來不僅在各國國內會開始開徵也會再進一步在國際之間就有要求所有的進口產品需要這個加徵所謂的碳關稅雖然我們目前台灣還沒有辦理這個部分碳關稅但是你的立場有透過你的公開發言記錄大家也都很清楚你曾經說過公平貿易的原則你支持在對你支持這個部分\n394329\t409237\t但是至少在企業以新的綠色商品取代舊有經營模式的時候無形中也會推升了很多的大眾商品的價格也會讓很多的成本企業外部成本內部化也會轉嫁給我們上下游甚至到消費者\n410077\t417143\t因此企業買這個碳權付碳費的這個相關成本會帶來的物價上漲的壓力也就是所謂綠色通膨說到這裡就是為什麼兩週前我們這個衛環這裡希望環境部來業務報告時通過這個臨時提案要考量到CPI的部分那主基處也有明將這個減碳政策對於國內經濟跟物價的影響納入通膨的不確定因素之中\n437159\t459031\t所以我們想要說的事情就是這個部分你們辦理的進度或者是你們的這個心態上面你們是怎麼樣去重視這件事情給廖委員報告我們完全尊重也認同這個大宴的決議所以事實上也把CPI的這個因素有請委員會在審議的時候要納進去考量\n460168\t484847\t那所以就想要請問喔你們的考量有沒有很實際的估算到如果開徵之後會讓CPI漲多少會連續漲幾年這部分就是外界一直很擔心的這個綠色通膨那未來有沒有計畫要將部分的收益返還給社會大眾以減輕這個碳費對於低收入家庭的影響然後政府要怎麼保證在這一過程中所有的這個透明度跟公正性\n486227\t488950\t含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n504545\t520839\t這個委員會裡面特別是提醒委員可以納進去考量我也具體建議一下部長因為你們在這個碳費費率的經濟衝擊的評估方法裡面這是應該要做的沒有錯可是現在看起來是環境部在主導可是這個對於經濟衝擊的評估不應該是這個經濟部應該用更高的層級來跨部會的來協調和去評估嘛\n526804\t551536\t所以我最後的具體建議是說這個部分也請我們部長回去參考因為這個東西也姿勢體大這個算起來每年至少一開始至少是15.5億美金以上的這個費用我看到你們的那個碳的量如果假設用這個所謂的10美元去算的話所以這個部分也要拜託我們的部長謝謝廖委員我們跟經濟部的互動相當的好謝謝\n","txt":"主席有請我們學部長請學部長部長好部長在這個進入今天的專題之前喔剛好昨天發生一件大家高度注目的案情\n有關我們的這個臺北市在新義A13那裡有疑似爆發這個大規模食安中毒的事件目前有9起案例一人死亡兩人命危那這起食物中毒已經有累計9名醫院通報6名陳情3例\n那大部分人都有吃到使用到這個所謂的草果籽草果條所以除了一名死亡之外還有兩人在加護病房葉克膜急救那因為我有看到新聞有說到是腎衰竭就看起來是相對疑似這種中毒的可能是化學啊等等的問題當然現在都還在調查中\n可是環境部依據環境部所組長食安五環業務也有這個所謂的源頭管控為了避免被不肖業者利用化學物質再添加到食品中因此對於這個食安有疑慮的化學物目前中央也有我們環境部嚴密的追蹤機制用來監督這個57種具有食安風險疑慮的化學物質的流向\n所以我想要請問一下這個部分你們現在有沒有持續在追蹤有關於這57種的化學物質的疑慮?\n給委員報告事實上擁有這57種食安風險的化學物質他們必須要運作要許環境部有合格才可以而且要把運作計畫書要送到環境部那每一個月事實上他要去化學營去登記把目前的情況都在這個資料上面呈現\n是,我今天前面趕快講一個實事題就是希望再次提醒我們近期台灣已經有太多的這個食安的事件而且這是看到更加的恐怖所以也要提醒就是我們環境部這個部分這個業務還要持續的更緊密的追蹤然後有必要的話甚至主動的提供這個數據可能給我們的檢調那再來\n部長我們進入到我們今天的主題部長我們的碳費費率審議委員會在3月15號才開第一次會昨天召開第二次我們看了新聞稿之後就請問部長為什麼要這麼晚才召開這兩次有達到任何實質的結論嗎\n事實上他們有一些共識那結論的部分當然有但是不是給碳費的費力沒有馬上出來這個當然跟我們當初的議期有一點落差但是反而是往好的方向走那我問部長媒體報導說4月份要再開一場有確定時間了嗎\n呃還沒有內現在在我們氣候署在調查時間因為我看你們這兩場會議都還在收集這個國外資料喔喔不是啦事實上媒體報導有有事實上這些資料都有了齁那這個有些委員有要求更多的資料那我們再補充啦\n來請問部長這個看起來是不是520之前根本不會有結論會不會是要拖到520之後才會先底牌我覺得我們沒有把520當作一個這個時間點我想應該是讓碳類匯率審議委員會來決定因為看起來整個時程都是嚴重的拖和跳票這個讓我們感覺到我們的部會會不會是因為520到了會有520焦慮症很多事情不敢提早趕快做決定\n所以兩次已經審議都沒有結論本來這一季說要承諾也算是已經確定跳票那是不是520後才要真的處理會不會代表我們要第3季第4季才有結論給廖委員報告所有環境部該做的事情從來不會因為520的因素去考量那我跟廖委員報告我剛剛在前面幾位委員的行答中也提到\n美國本來CCA就是它的清潔清淨競爭法案要在去年提出來說要說要來實施也都完全沒有是部長國盟的西邊細節也是好來部長我想要跟你表達的是現在喔這個企業界非常的著急所以企業界瀰漫著這個叫做碳焦慮我可以感同身受對所以這個東西有所有的問題都跟這個費率有很大的影響喔所以我們\n部長我們碳費率制定這個過程基本上可以分為沙灘區、潛水區、深水區可是現在進度根本就還在沙灘區嘛還沒有到潛水區所以企業完全沒有辦法估算成本連明年的預算要怎麼編都不知道所以就是想要跟部長說如果你是企業的CEO你有辦法忍受嗎\n給廖委員報告事實上那550家或廠在兩年前環境部那時候環保署就已經知會了所以他們才能夠有碳盤部長現在因為這個進度落後會影響到四個層面也就是我們企業成本難以預估然後影響我們的碳交易量\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度\n也就是也必須也有體認到碳有價時代的來臨可是我們企業還是要依循要估算可是現在卻卡在行政部門你不覺得行政部門效率太差了嗎所以當然我了解到部長這個是你們是需要這個很你們認為要很審慎的評估可是你這個時程我還是要提醒部長還是必須要趕快出來因為你說2025年要要增了嘛對不對要開收了嘛是所以再來要問部長喔是\n我們本席知道這個碳費未來不僅在各國國內會開始開徵也會再進一步在國際之間就有要求所有的進口產品需要這個加徵所謂的碳關稅雖然我們目前台灣還沒有辦理這個部分碳關稅但是你的立場有透過你的公開發言記錄大家也都很清楚你曾經說過公平貿易的原則你支持在對你支持這個部分\n但是至少在企業以新的綠色商品取代舊有經營模式的時候無形中也會推升了很多的大眾商品的價格也會讓很多的成本企業外部成本內部化也會轉嫁給我們上下游甚至到消費者\n因此企業買這個碳權付碳費的這個相關成本會帶來的物價上漲的壓力也就是所謂綠色通膨說到這裡就是為什麼兩週前我們這個衛環這裡希望環境部來業務報告時通過這個臨時提案要考量到CPI的部分那主基處也有明將這個減碳政策對於國內經濟跟物價的影響納入通膨的不確定因素之中\n所以我們想要說的事情就是這個部分你們辦理的進度或者是你們的這個心態上面你們是怎麼樣去重視這件事情給廖委員報告我們完全尊重也認同這個大宴的決議所以事實上也把CPI的這個因素有請委員會在審議的時候要納進去考量\n那所以就想要請問喔你們的考量有沒有很實際的估算到如果開徵之後會讓CPI漲多少會連續漲幾年這部分就是外界一直很擔心的這個綠色通膨那未來有沒有計畫要將部分的收益返還給社會大眾以減輕這個碳費對於低收入家庭的影響然後政府要怎麼保證在這一過程中所有的這個透明度跟公正性\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n這個委員會裡面特別是提醒委員可以納進去考量我也具體建議一下部長因為你們在這個碳費費率的經濟衝擊的評估方法裡面這是應該要做的沒有錯可是現在看起來是環境部在主導可是這個對於經濟衝擊的評估不應該是這個經濟部應該用更高的層級來跨部會的來協調和去評估嘛\n所以我最後的具體建議是說這個部分也請我們部長回去參考因為這個東西也姿勢體大這個算起來每年至少一開始至少是15.5億美金以上的這個費用我看到你們的那個碳的量如果假設用這個所謂的10美元去算的話所以這個部分也要拜託我們的部長謝謝廖委員我們跟經濟部的互動相當的好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.097 --> 00:09.561\n主席有請我們學部長請學部長部長好部長在這個進入今天的專題之前喔剛好昨天發生一件大家高度注目的案情\n\n00:21.758 --> 00:35.372\n有關我們的這個臺北市在新義A13那裡有疑似爆發這個大規模食安中毒的事件目前有9起案例一人死亡兩人命危那這起食物中毒已經有累計9名醫院通報6名陳情3例\n\n00:38.855 --> 00:56.973\n那大部分人都有吃到使用到這個所謂的草果籽草果條所以除了一名死亡之外還有兩人在加護病房葉克膜急救那因為我有看到新聞有說到是腎衰竭就看起來是相對疑似這種中毒的可能是化學啊等等的問題當然現在都還在調查中\n\n00:58.795 --> 01:21.036\n可是環境部依據環境部所組長食安五環業務也有這個所謂的源頭管控為了避免被不肖業者利用化學物質再添加到食品中因此對於這個食安有疑慮的化學物目前中央也有我們環境部嚴密的追蹤機制用來監督這個57種具有食安風險疑慮的化學物質的流向\n\n01:21.917 --> 01:25.882\n所以我想要請問一下這個部分你們現在有沒有持續在追蹤有關於這57種的化學物質的疑慮?\n\n01:30.377 --> 01:53.456\n給委員報告事實上擁有這57種食安風險的化學物質他們必須要運作要許環境部有合格才可以而且要把運作計畫書要送到環境部那每一個月事實上他要去化學營去登記把目前的情況都在這個資料上面呈現\n\n01:54.016 --> 02:13.834\n是,我今天前面趕快講一個實事題就是希望再次提醒我們近期台灣已經有太多的這個食安的事件而且這是看到更加的恐怖所以也要提醒就是我們環境部這個部分這個業務還要持續的更緊密的追蹤然後有必要的話甚至主動的提供這個數據可能給我們的檢調那再來\n\n02:18.138 --> 02:33.170\n部長我們進入到我們今天的主題部長我們的碳費費率審議委員會在3月15號才開第一次會昨天召開第二次我們看了新聞稿之後就請問部長為什麼要這麼晚才召開這兩次有達到任何實質的結論嗎\n\n02:35.104 --> 02:54.134\n事實上他們有一些共識那結論的部分當然有但是不是給碳費的費力沒有馬上出來這個當然跟我們當初的議期有一點落差但是反而是往好的方向走那我問部長媒體報導說4月份要再開一場有確定時間了嗎\n\n02:55.551 --> 03:11.848\n呃還沒有內現在在我們氣候署在調查時間因為我看你們這兩場會議都還在收集這個國外資料喔喔不是啦事實上媒體報導有有事實上這些資料都有了齁那這個有些委員有要求更多的資料那我們再補充啦\n\n03:12.576 --> 03:39.378\n來請問部長這個看起來是不是520之前根本不會有結論會不會是要拖到520之後才會先底牌我覺得我們沒有把520當作一個這個時間點我想應該是讓碳類匯率審議委員會來決定因為看起來整個時程都是嚴重的拖和跳票這個讓我們感覺到我們的部會會不會是因為520到了會有520焦慮症很多事情不敢提早趕快做決定\n\n03:40.319 --> 04:04.822\n所以兩次已經審議都沒有結論本來這一季說要承諾也算是已經確定跳票那是不是520後才要真的處理會不會代表我們要第3季第4季才有結論給廖委員報告所有環境部該做的事情從來不會因為520的因素去考量那我跟廖委員報告我剛剛在前面幾位委員的行答中也提到\n\n04:05.603 --> 04:30.914\n美國本來CCA就是它的清潔清淨競爭法案要在去年提出來說要說要來實施也都完全沒有是部長國盟的西邊細節也是好來部長我想要跟你表達的是現在喔這個企業界非常的著急所以企業界瀰漫著這個叫做碳焦慮我可以感同身受對所以這個東西有所有的問題都跟這個費率有很大的影響喔所以我們\n\n04:31.974 --> 04:51.993\n部長我們碳費率制定這個過程基本上可以分為沙灘區、潛水區、深水區可是現在進度根本就還在沙灘區嘛還沒有到潛水區所以企業完全沒有辦法估算成本連明年的預算要怎麼編都不知道所以就是想要跟部長說如果你是企業的CEO你有辦法忍受嗎\n\n04:52.754 --> 05:13.307\n給廖委員報告事實上那550家或廠在兩年前環境部那時候環保署就已經知會了所以他們才能夠有碳盤部長現在因為這個進度落後會影響到四個層面也就是我們企業成本難以預估然後影響我們的碳交易量\n\n05:14.295 --> 05:17.077\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度\n\n05:40.131 --> 06:07.654\n也就是也必須也有體認到碳有價時代的來臨可是我們企業還是要依循要估算可是現在卻卡在行政部門你不覺得行政部門效率太差了嗎所以當然我了解到部長這個是你們是需要這個很你們認為要很審慎的評估可是你這個時程我還是要提醒部長還是必須要趕快出來因為你說2025年要要增了嘛對不對要開收了嘛是所以再來要問部長喔是\n\n06:09.795 --> 06:33.589\n我們本席知道這個碳費未來不僅在各國國內會開始開徵也會再進一步在國際之間就有要求所有的進口產品需要這個加徵所謂的碳關稅雖然我們目前台灣還沒有辦理這個部分碳關稅但是你的立場有透過你的公開發言記錄大家也都很清楚你曾經說過公平貿易的原則你支持在對你支持這個部分\n\n06:34.329 --> 06:49.237\n但是至少在企業以新的綠色商品取代舊有經營模式的時候無形中也會推升了很多的大眾商品的價格也會讓很多的成本企業外部成本內部化也會轉嫁給我們上下游甚至到消費者\n\n06:50.077 --> 06:57.143\n因此企業買這個碳權付碳費的這個相關成本會帶來的物價上漲的壓力也就是所謂綠色通膨說到這裡就是為什麼兩週前我們這個衛環這裡希望環境部來業務報告時通過這個臨時提案要考量到CPI的部分那主基處也有明將這個減碳政策對於國內經濟跟物價的影響納入通膨的不確定因素之中\n\n07:17.159 --> 07:39.031\n所以我們想要說的事情就是這個部分你們辦理的進度或者是你們的這個心態上面你們是怎麼樣去重視這件事情給廖委員報告我們完全尊重也認同這個大宴的決議所以事實上也把CPI的這個因素有請委員會在審議的時候要納進去考量\n\n07:40.168 --> 08:04.847\n那所以就想要請問喔你們的考量有沒有很實際的估算到如果開徵之後會讓CPI漲多少會連續漲幾年這部分就是外界一直很擔心的這個綠色通膨那未來有沒有計畫要將部分的收益返還給社會大眾以減輕這個碳費對於低收入家庭的影響然後政府要怎麼保證在這一過程中所有的這個透明度跟公正性\n\n08:06.227 --> 08:08.950\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n08:24.545 --> 08:40.839\n這個委員會裡面特別是提醒委員可以納進去考量我也具體建議一下部長因為你們在這個碳費費率的經濟衝擊的評估方法裡面這是應該要做的沒有錯可是現在看起來是環境部在主導可是這個對於經濟衝擊的評估不應該是這個經濟部應該用更高的層級來跨部會的來協調和去評估嘛\n\n08:46.804 --> 09:11.536\n所以我最後的具體建議是說這個部分也請我們部長回去參考因為這個東西也姿勢體大這個算起來每年至少一開始至少是15.5億美金以上的這個費用我看到你們的那個碳的量如果假設用這個所謂的10美元去算的話所以這個部分也要拜託我們的部長謝謝廖委員我們跟經濟部的互動相當的好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.097,"end":9.561,"text":"主席有請我們學部長請學部長部長好部長在這個進入今天的專題之前喔剛好昨天發生一件大家高度注目的案情"},{"start":21.758,"end":35.372,"text":"有關我們的這個臺北市在新義A13那裡有疑似爆發這個大規模食安中毒的事件目前有9起案例一人死亡兩人命危那這起食物中毒已經有累計9名醫院通報6名陳情3例"},{"start":38.855,"end":56.973,"text":"那大部分人都有吃到使用到這個所謂的草果籽草果條所以除了一名死亡之外還有兩人在加護病房葉克膜急救那因為我有看到新聞有說到是腎衰竭就看起來是相對疑似這種中毒的可能是化學啊等等的問題當然現在都還在調查中"},{"start":58.795,"end":81.036,"text":"可是環境部依據環境部所組長食安五環業務也有這個所謂的源頭管控為了避免被不肖業者利用化學物質再添加到食品中因此對於這個食安有疑慮的化學物目前中央也有我們環境部嚴密的追蹤機制用來監督這個57種具有食安風險疑慮的化學物質的流向"},{"start":81.917,"end":85.882,"text":"所以我想要請問一下這個部分你們現在有沒有持續在追蹤有關於這57種的化學物質的疑慮?"},{"start":90.377,"end":113.456,"text":"給委員報告事實上擁有這57種食安風險的化學物質他們必須要運作要許環境部有合格才可以而且要把運作計畫書要送到環境部那每一個月事實上他要去化學營去登記把目前的情況都在這個資料上面呈現"},{"start":114.016,"end":133.834,"text":"是,我今天前面趕快講一個實事題就是希望再次提醒我們近期台灣已經有太多的這個食安的事件而且這是看到更加的恐怖所以也要提醒就是我們環境部這個部分這個業務還要持續的更緊密的追蹤然後有必要的話甚至主動的提供這個數據可能給我們的檢調那再來"},{"start":138.138,"end":153.17,"text":"部長我們進入到我們今天的主題部長我們的碳費費率審議委員會在3月15號才開第一次會昨天召開第二次我們看了新聞稿之後就請問部長為什麼要這麼晚才召開這兩次有達到任何實質的結論嗎"},{"start":155.104,"end":174.134,"text":"事實上他們有一些共識那結論的部分當然有但是不是給碳費的費力沒有馬上出來這個當然跟我們當初的議期有一點落差但是反而是往好的方向走那我問部長媒體報導說4月份要再開一場有確定時間了嗎"},{"start":175.551,"end":191.848,"text":"呃還沒有內現在在我們氣候署在調查時間因為我看你們這兩場會議都還在收集這個國外資料喔喔不是啦事實上媒體報導有有事實上這些資料都有了齁那這個有些委員有要求更多的資料那我們再補充啦"},{"start":192.576,"end":219.378,"text":"來請問部長這個看起來是不是520之前根本不會有結論會不會是要拖到520之後才會先底牌我覺得我們沒有把520當作一個這個時間點我想應該是讓碳類匯率審議委員會來決定因為看起來整個時程都是嚴重的拖和跳票這個讓我們感覺到我們的部會會不會是因為520到了會有520焦慮症很多事情不敢提早趕快做決定"},{"start":220.319,"end":244.822,"text":"所以兩次已經審議都沒有結論本來這一季說要承諾也算是已經確定跳票那是不是520後才要真的處理會不會代表我們要第3季第4季才有結論給廖委員報告所有環境部該做的事情從來不會因為520的因素去考量那我跟廖委員報告我剛剛在前面幾位委員的行答中也提到"},{"start":245.603,"end":270.914,"text":"美國本來CCA就是它的清潔清淨競爭法案要在去年提出來說要說要來實施也都完全沒有是部長國盟的西邊細節也是好來部長我想要跟你表達的是現在喔這個企業界非常的著急所以企業界瀰漫著這個叫做碳焦慮我可以感同身受對所以這個東西有所有的問題都跟這個費率有很大的影響喔所以我們"},{"start":271.974,"end":291.993,"text":"部長我們碳費率制定這個過程基本上可以分為沙灘區、潛水區、深水區可是現在進度根本就還在沙灘區嘛還沒有到潛水區所以企業完全沒有辦法估算成本連明年的預算要怎麼編都不知道所以就是想要跟部長說如果你是企業的CEO你有辦法忍受嗎"},{"start":292.754,"end":313.307,"text":"給廖委員報告事實上那550家或廠在兩年前環境部那時候環保署就已經知會了所以他們才能夠有碳盤部長現在因為這個進度落後會影響到四個層面也就是我們企業成本難以預估然後影響我們的碳交易量"},{"start":314.295,"end":317.077,"text":"二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度"},{"start":340.131,"end":367.654,"text":"也就是也必須也有體認到碳有價時代的來臨可是我們企業還是要依循要估算可是現在卻卡在行政部門你不覺得行政部門效率太差了嗎所以當然我了解到部長這個是你們是需要這個很你們認為要很審慎的評估可是你這個時程我還是要提醒部長還是必須要趕快出來因為你說2025年要要增了嘛對不對要開收了嘛是所以再來要問部長喔是"},{"start":369.795,"end":393.589,"text":"我們本席知道這個碳費未來不僅在各國國內會開始開徵也會再進一步在國際之間就有要求所有的進口產品需要這個加徵所謂的碳關稅雖然我們目前台灣還沒有辦理這個部分碳關稅但是你的立場有透過你的公開發言記錄大家也都很清楚你曾經說過公平貿易的原則你支持在對你支持這個部分"},{"start":394.329,"end":409.237,"text":"但是至少在企業以新的綠色商品取代舊有經營模式的時候無形中也會推升了很多的大眾商品的價格也會讓很多的成本企業外部成本內部化也會轉嫁給我們上下游甚至到消費者"},{"start":410.077,"end":417.143,"text":"因此企業買這個碳權付碳費的這個相關成本會帶來的物價上漲的壓力也就是所謂綠色通膨說到這裡就是為什麼兩週前我們這個衛環這裡希望環境部來業務報告時通過這個臨時提案要考量到CPI的部分那主基處也有明將這個減碳政策對於國內經濟跟物價的影響納入通膨的不確定因素之中"},{"start":437.159,"end":459.031,"text":"所以我們想要說的事情就是這個部分你們辦理的進度或者是你們的這個心態上面你們是怎麼樣去重視這件事情給廖委員報告我們完全尊重也認同這個大宴的決議所以事實上也把CPI的這個因素有請委員會在審議的時候要納進去考量"},{"start":460.168,"end":484.847,"text":"那所以就想要請問喔你們的考量有沒有很實際的估算到如果開徵之後會讓CPI漲多少會連續漲幾年這部分就是外界一直很擔心的這個綠色通膨那未來有沒有計畫要將部分的收益返還給社會大眾以減輕這個碳費對於低收入家庭的影響然後政府要怎麼保證在這一過程中所有的這個透明度跟公正性"},{"start":486.227,"end":488.95,"text":"含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":504.545,"end":520.839,"text":"這個委員會裡面特別是提醒委員可以納進去考量我也具體建議一下部長因為你們在這個碳費費率的經濟衝擊的評估方法裡面這是應該要做的沒有錯可是現在看起來是環境部在主導可是這個對於經濟衝擊的評估不應該是這個經濟部應該用更高的層級來跨部會的來協調和去評估嘛"},{"start":526.804,"end":551.536,"text":"所以我最後的具體建議是說這個部分也請我們部長回去參考因為這個東西也姿勢體大這個算起來每年至少一開始至少是15.5億美金以上的這個費用我看到你們的那個碳的量如果假設用這個所謂的10美元去算的話所以這個部分也要拜託我們的部長謝謝廖委員我們跟經濟部的互動相當的好謝謝"}]}}}}