{"id":150468,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150468","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d538c22cf83cc86bebe53fb40122520aebf8ba9b0039caa7a628e36e00ee6b56215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"10:15:24 - 10:25:47","影片長度":"00:10:23","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查「行人交通安全設施條例草案」(一)行政院函請審議「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案。(二)委員黃捷等16人擬具「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案。【上開議案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,23],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,23-1"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":623,"end_time":"2024-03-27T10:25:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T10:15:24+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":383,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（10時15分）主席，請林部長。"],["主席：好，請部長。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：部長早。我想請教一下部長，在2022年12月 時CNN Travel有專題報導將臺灣稱作行人地獄，報導中也指出，澳洲、加拿大、日本、美國等國在官方旅遊的網站也都建議要提及臺灣的道路狀況，美國國務院也直指許多司機都不尊重行人路權，所以CNN報導也指出臺灣若不改善道安的問題，將無法吸引及留住國際旅客，本席也支持要洗刷行人地獄的污名。請問部長，目前保障行人交通安全、洗刷行人地獄的主管機關就是由內政部負責，是嗎？"],["林部長右昌：我想是這一個行人交通安全設施條例的法。"],["許委員宇甄：OK，現在是由內政部主管嘛。"],["林部長右昌：工程的部分。"],["許委員宇甄：工程的部分是由內政部主管？"],["林部長右昌：就是剛剛講的，就是今天要審的行人交通安全設施條例。"],["許委員宇甄：好。我想請教一下，現行已經有一個市區道路條例對道路設施有所規範，而針對市區道路行人安全保障的這個條例就是內政部主責，對不對？就是市區道路條例。"],["林部長右昌：對，這是內政部主責。"],["許委員宇甄：對。既然已經有市區道路條例來規範跟保障行人的交通安全，為什麼不從現行的法規修正？"],["林部長右昌：因為那個是著重在新闢的道路，但是我們有很多都是既成的道路，這個部分也必須要有一個指引的規範；另外，在這個新的法裡面特別訂定地方政府相關的應辦事項，還有更重要的就是有相關的罰則。"],["許委員宇甄：OK。部長，你知道嗎？市區道路條例第四條也有規定市區道路的主管機關，剛剛有講就是在內政部；另外，您看一下第九條，市區道路兩旁建築物之騎樓及無遮簷人行道地平面，應依照市區道路及附屬工程設計標準及配合道路高程建造，不得與鄰接地平面高低不平。這個第九條全文您可以看一下，其實跟我們在民國92年12月23號所制定的條文幾乎一模一樣，跟你們現在的行人交通安全設施條例第九條規定幾乎一樣；而且也同樣有罰則，在第三十三條之一規定，未遵期自行改善完成者，處新臺幣5,000元以上2萬5,000元以下罰鍰，並得按月連續處罰，至其完成改善為止。請問部長，騎樓與人行道高低不平的問題，在民國92年就有市區道路條例規定要解決，為什麼現在還要制定行人交通安全設施條例處理這個問題？"],["林部長右昌：因為我們的道路有很多不同層級，比如說國道、省道、市道、鄉道等等，而市區道路條例處理的是市區、在都市計畫範圍裡面的道路，但是還有其他道路必須要做規範，所以這次我們為什麼要訂這個條例，是要把市區道路外的其他道路也納入規範。"],["許委員宇甄：就是都市計畫區外的道路一起納入規範，是嗎？"],["林部長右昌：對，沒錯。"],["許委員宇甄：那請問一下部長，您之前擔任基隆市長8年期間有遇到這樣的問題的話，你們當時是怎麼解決？"],["林部長右昌：哪一個部分？"],["許委員宇甄：比如像您剛剛講的，有都市計畫區內的、有都市計畫區外的道路，以往有遇到這樣的問題嗎？"],["林部長右昌：我們基隆比較沒有這個問題，因為基隆絕大多數都是都市計畫區。"],["許委員宇甄：但是像我之前在雲林，雲林就會有很多這樣的問題。所以您的意思就是現在主責單位都會拉回來內政部這邊處理，不管是都市計畫區內或是都市計畫區外的，是嗎？"],["林部長右昌：不是，因為每一個法都有主責機關，而內政部是這個法的主責機關，當然還有包括交通部，最主要是交通部，它也會適用，並納到這個條例的規範裡。"],["許委員宇甄：因為原來的法律是授權地方政府解決，地方執行上有困難、遇到民眾反彈的時候，我們要怎麼來處理？"],["林部長右昌：反彈指的是騎樓整平的部分嗎？"],["許委員宇甄：對。"],["林部長右昌：第一個，騎樓整平跟我們這次要處理的這個有點不太一樣，不過跟委員分享……"],["許委員宇甄：條文裡面都有提到，對不對？"],["林部長右昌：是，但是騎樓整平很重要的是要溝通啦，因為最重要的是都沒有溝通，它需要比較長的時間，工程的一個手段反而相對是簡單的。"],["許委員宇甄：OK，再請教一下部長，因為剛剛講到騎樓跟人行道接壤的問題，其實有很多很複雜的部分。"],["林部長右昌：對。"],["許委員宇甄：所以你看，包括戶與戶的高低差，棟與棟距的高低差，騎樓跟人行道的高低差，這些還有涉及到比如機車亂放，然後商家的路擋不易行走的這些問題。在施工方面，比如說高低差要鋪平，還要考慮排水坡度、雨水倒灌、水電、瓦斯管路跟地下室頂板問題、車輛通行載重的問題，所以現在依照新的條文，第九條我們可以看到，現在內政部把這麼多歷史遺留的問題，要丟給建築物所有權人、使用人或管理人在兩個月內改善，剛剛部長有提到這個應該要好好地溝通，但現在要求他們在兩個月內改善，這樣有辦法好好溝通嗎？"],["林部長右昌：委員，我跟您報告一下，可能委員有一點誤會，這個是在整平之後，就是我們統一重修完成之後，如果他再去做其他的破壞或者擅自改建的話，這個就會要求他兩個月內要把它回復。"],["許委員宇甄：請問整平、重修這個階段，你們給多少時間讓他們去做？"],["林部長右昌：整平、重修剛剛跟委員報告，它需要滿長的溝通時間。"],["許委員宇甄：對，所以說等於這一個可能……"],["林部長右昌：我們並沒有去硬性要求地方政府什麼時候把它完成。"],["許委員宇甄：所以這也有可能會拖很久的時間，是這樣的意思嗎？"],["林部長右昌：我的經驗是這樣，報告委員，剛剛在講工程的手段，其實是最後面也是最簡單的，但是前置的溝通，可能需要滿長的時間。"],["許委員宇甄：這個部分本席認為，當然一定要溝通，可是我覺得也要訂定一個時間，否則也許過了20年還在溝通，都還沒有處理。"],["林部長右昌：當然不會。"],["許委員宇甄：尤其剛剛講的道路交通條例，這個在92年制定到現在也21年了，很多的問題還是沒有解決。"],["林部長右昌：委員，我跟你補充報告，其實騎樓整平另外還有騎樓摩托車停車的問題，它需要更大範圍的配套，比如說在旁邊，甚至市政府要規劃開闢摩托車的停車場，讓摩托車有地方可以停，否則摩托車沒地方去。"],["許委員宇甄：所以這個是整體要處理的問題。"],["林部長右昌：對，要整體。"],["許委員宇甄：希望這個部分內政部也可以會同其他部會，大家共同來處理這些相關的問題。"],["林部長右昌：是。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，這一次中央有權考核地方的績效，如果考評的績效不佳，中央主管機關可以減列相關道路交通計畫的補助額度，請問是要減列哪一個交通計畫的補助額度？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，因為我們跟交通部有很多地方的道路補助款，我們是希望地方提出來，既然你願意提出來，就把它做好，而不是提出來以後又收拾不了。"],["許委員宇甄：對，在做不好的狀況下，你們說你們要減列嘛。"],["吳署長欣修：做不好我們可能就要考慮減列其他的項目。"],["許委員宇甄：對，那是它其他的部分，而不是這一個裡面的……"],["吳署長欣修：不是，會減列其他的。"],["許委員宇甄：其他的？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["許委員宇甄：事實上，本席認為它做不好一定有它的原因，就像部長曾擔任基隆市長，絕對沒有縣市政府會故意怠惰或是績效不彰，它一定是有它的原因，那它本來就做不好了，你又減列它的補助，它就更做不好啦！"],["吳署長欣修：所以是看它的積極度，也就是它從開始提案的時候就要很慎重，我們是希望……"],["許委員宇甄：對，所以我的意思是要去探討它做不好的原因，而不是都用這種方式去減列它的補助。"],["吳署長欣修：瞭解，所以我們是「得」，不是說一定要強制性。"],["許委員宇甄：所以這個條文也有特別提到，就是說我們要減列它的一般性補助或者是交通的補助，我覺得這個部分可能也要研擬一下，我們制定這個法律，主要就是希望能夠解決問題，而不是以這種手段處理，當然要怎麼樣來解決，我相信縣市政府一定都很願意配合。","另外，最後一個問題也想請教一下部長，我們常常看到車子停在路口的紅綠燈時有人賣玉蘭花，有人發廣告的傳單，在車陣中穿梭非常地危險，這個問題是不是也要納入規範，加強取締？而且這個應該是跟警政署有關？"],["陳次長彥伯：我跟委員報告，像這樣的一個違規行為，在道路交通管理處罰條例已經有明文處罰的規定。"],["許委員宇甄：所以是由交通部主管，那誰來取締？"],["陳次長彥伯：當然就是由警察來取締。"],["許委員宇甄：那這樣是不是也造成警力非常大的負擔呢？警力有辦法負擔嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：我想警察會規劃他們的勤務，遇到這種……"],["許委員宇甄：請教一下部長，這可能也加重警政署的人力負擔，這個部分要怎麼來解決？"],["林部長右昌：所以就是請大家多多支持警察。"],["許委員宇甄：還是請大家不要違規，這樣嗎？所以我覺得其實問題還蠻嚴重，我們常常看到，我覺得可能應該思考怎麼來輔導這些業者，輔導他們讓他們不要去做這些違法的情事。"],["林部長右昌：是。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢。","下一位請王美惠委員質詢。王美惠委員質詢完畢就休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,23-1","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃捷","黃建賓","蘇巧慧","李昆澤","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","許宇甄","王美惠","黃健豪","林俊憲","蔡其昌","徐富癸","何欣純","林沛祥","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","廖先翔","吳思瑤","黃珊珊","游顥","洪申翰","李柏毅","陳冠廷","吳沛憶","陳素月","魯明哲","黃仁","劉建國","林國成","張智倫","丁學忠","林月琴","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查「行人交通安全設施條例草案」(一)行政院函請審議「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案；\n(二)委員黃捷等16人擬具「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案","agenda_id":"1132101_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150468","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150468","tool":"pyannote","id":"150468-pyannote"},"job_id":"0TMNuO51N0S7xgqm","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 601.704, \"end\": 601.724, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,835 --> 00:00:11,317\n主席,請林部長。好,請部長\n\n2\n00:00:17,044 --> 00:00:41,795\n委員長早我想請教一下部長是在2022年12月的時候CNNTravel有專題將台灣稱作行人地域然後報導中也指出澳洲、加拿大、日本、美國等國在官方旅遊的網站也都建議要提及台灣的道路狀況那美國國務院也是直指許多司機都不尊重行人路權所以CNN的CNN報導\n\n3\n00:00:42,955 --> 00:01:05,664\n也指到臺灣若不改善道安的問題將無法吸引及留住國際旅客本席也支持要洗刷行人地域的污名請問部長目前保障行人交通安全洗刷行人地域的主管機關目前就是由內政部負責是嗎我想是這一個法是這一個行人交通安全設施條例現在由內政部來主管\n\n4\n00:01:12,028 --> 00:01:35,274\n公懲公懲的這一個部分公懲的部分是由內政部就是剛剛在講今天我們要進行交通安全設施條例我想請教一下我們現行的法有一個市區道路條例已經對道路設施有所規範那市區道路行人的安全的保障這個條例就是內政部主責嘛對不對\n\n5\n00:01:39,418 --> 00:01:58,316\n既然已經有市區道路條例規範跟保證行人的交通安全為什麼不從現行的法規去修正因為那一個是新闢的一個著重在新闢的道路但是我們有很多都是已經繼承的道路那一部分也必須要有一個指引有一個規範要求\n\n6\n00:01:59,557 --> 00:02:18,919\n另外在新的這個法裡面特別訂定對地方政府相關的一個這個要該辦的這個事項還有另外更重要就是有相關的一個法則請問一下部長你知道嗎市區道路條例的第4條也是規定市區道路的主管機關剛剛講的就是在內政部\n\n7\n00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:39,667\n第9條您可以看一下就是市區道路兩旁的建築物跟騎樓幾乎遮掩人行道地平面因照市區道路及附屬工程設計保準及配合道路高層的建造不得與鄰近地面高低不平的這個全文第9條您可以看一下其實跟我們\n\n8\n00:02:40,427 --> 00:03:05,255\n在民國92年12月23號所制定的這個條文是幾乎是一模一樣跟你們現在的行人交通安全設施條例的第九條規定幾乎是一樣然後也同樣有罰則在第33至1條規定會遵其自行改善完成者處新台幣五千元以上兩萬五千元以下的罰還並得按月連續處罰直到改善為止那請問部長\n\n9\n00:03:06,335 --> 00:03:06,876\n市區道路的這個\n\n10\n00:03:25,833 --> 00:03:43,918\n條例處理的是在市區在都市計劃範圍裏面但是我們還有其他的一個道路必須要做規範所以這次我們為什麼要訂這個條例是要把市區道路外的其他的道路也幫他納入規範就是都市計劃區外的道路一起納入規範對是沒錯那請問一下部長您之前擔任金融市長8年的時間有遇到這樣的問題的話你們當時是怎麼解決\n\n11\n00:04:07,529 --> 00:04:30,488\n所以您現在的意思就是現在主責的單位都會拉回來內政部這邊來處理是嗎不管都市計劃區跟都市計劃區外的我們是在這個條例裡面因為每一個法都有主責的機關所以當然是內政部我們是這個法的主責機關當然還有包括交通部其他的這個道路的最主要是交通部那他也會這個適用就是說這個納到這個條例的一個規範裡面\n\n12\n00:04:34,566 --> 00:04:43,759\n因為原來的法律是授權地方政府解決,地方執行上有困難遇到民眾的反彈的時候,我們要怎麼來處理?反彈指的是,你說這個歧陋整平的部分。\n\n13\n00:04:51,883 --> 00:05:09,457\n其實整評跟我們這次要處理的這個有點不太一樣但是其中整評很重要的是這個要溝通啦因為最重要的是沒有溝通那他需要滿比較長的一個時間工程的一個手段反而相對是簡單的\n\n14\n00:05:11,398 --> 00:05:37,840\n請教部長,就是因為剛剛講到騎樓跟人行道接壤的問題其實有很多很複雜的所以包括你看互與互的高低差動與動具的高低差騎樓跟人行道的高低差這些還有涉及到比如機車亂放然後商家的路把不易行走這些問題那在施工方面還有比如說高低差要鋪平還要考慮排水鋪堵雨水倒灌水電瓦斯管路跟地下室平板問題\n\n15\n00:05:39,081 --> 00:06:03,998\n車輛通行載重的問題所以現在我們依照新的條文第9條可以看到現在內政部把這麼多歷史遺留的問題要丟給建築物所有權人使用人或管理人在兩個月改善剛剛部長有提到這個應該要好好的溝通但現在要求他們在兩個月內改善這樣有辦法好好溝通嗎?\n\n16\n00:06:05,751 --> 00:06:26,759\n委員我跟您報告一下可能委員有點誤會這個是在整平之後就是我們統一重修完成之後那如果他再去做其他的一個這個破壞或是說擅自改建的話那這個就要要求他兩個月那請問整平重修這個階段你們給多少時間讓他們去做\n\n17\n00:06:27,439 --> 00:06:48,917\n整憑重修剛剛在跟委員報告,他需要蠻長的一個溝通的時間。我們並沒有去硬性要求地方政府什麼時候把...所以說這也有可能會再拖很久的時間,是這樣的意思嗎?我的經驗是這樣,報告委員,剛剛在講工程的手段其實是最後面,是最簡單的。\n\n18\n00:06:49,818 --> 00:07:12,552\n但是在前置的一個溝通可能需要蠻長的一個時間這個部分本身希望說當然一定要溝通可是我覺得也要訂定一個時間否則的話也許過了20年還在溝通都還沒有處理因為尤其這個道路交通剛講的道路交通條例這個在92年制定到現在也21年了很多的問題還是沒有解決委員我跟你報告補充一個\n\n19\n00:07:13,453 --> 00:07:13,893\n議員黃捷等16人擬具\n\n20\n00:07:41,258 --> 00:07:53,345\n有權考核地方的績效,然後若考評的績效不佳,中央管制官可以檢列相關道路交通計畫的補助額度。請問是要檢列哪一個交通計畫的補助額度?\n\n21\n00:07:58,121 --> 00:08:15,619\n各位報告因為我們部跟交通部有很多地方的道路補助款那我們是希望你地方提出來既然你願意提出來就把它做好而不是提出來以後又受死不了做不好我們可能就要考慮檢列其他的其他項目不是會檢列其他的其他的\n\n22\n00:08:21,417 --> 00:08:43,726\n本市認為事實上他做不好一定有他的原因就像部長今天擔任金融市長絕對沒有縣市政府會故意代舵或是績效不彰他一定是有他的原因那他本來就做不好了你又減劣他的補助他就更做不好了所以是看他的積極度也就是你從提案的時候就要開始很慎重我們是希望是說要去探討\n\n23\n00:08:44,326 --> 00:08:50,089\n以此條文也有特別提到就是說我們要檢列它的一般性的補助或者是交通的補助我覺得這個部分可能也要研擬一下就是說我們的問題我們現在制定這個法律的問題主要就是希望能夠解決問題而不是以這種手段那當然要怎麼樣來解決我相信縣市政府一定都很願意配合\n\n24\n00:09:12,442 --> 00:09:31,209\n最後一個問題是我們常常看到車子停在路口的紅綠燈時有人賣玉蘭花有人發廣告的傳單在車陣中穿梭非常的危險這個問題是不是也要加入這個納入規範加強取締而且這個可能是跟應該是跟警政署有關\n\n25\n00:09:32,176 --> 00:09:32,616\n請大家多多支持警察。\n\n26\n00:10:01,604 --> 00:10:01,724\n許宇甄委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8835\t11317\t主席,請林部長。好,請部長\n17044\t41795\t委員長早我想請教一下部長是在2022年12月的時候CNN Travel有專題將台灣稱作行人地域然後報導中也指出澳洲、加拿大、日本、美國等國在官方旅遊的網站也都建議要提及台灣的道路狀況那美國國務院也是直指許多司機都不尊重行人路權所以CNN的CNN報導\n42955\t65664\t也指到臺灣若不改善道安的問題將無法吸引及留住國際旅客本席也支持要洗刷行人地域的污名請問部長目前保障行人交通安全洗刷行人地域的主管機關目前就是由內政部負責是嗎我想是這一個法是這一個行人交通安全設施條例現在由內政部來主管\n72028\t95274\t公懲公懲的這一個部分公懲的部分是由內政部就是剛剛在講今天我們要進行交通安全設施條例我想請教一下我們現行的法有一個市區道路條例已經對道路設施有所規範那市區道路行人的安全的保障這個條例就是內政部主責嘛對不對\n99418\t118316\t既然已經有市區道路條例規範跟保證行人的交通安全為什麼不從現行的法規去修正因為那一個是新闢的一個著重在新闢的道路但是我們有很多都是已經繼承的道路那一部分也必須要有一個指引有一個規範要求\n119557\t138919\t另外在新的這個法裡面特別訂定對地方政府相關的一個這個要該辦的這個事項還有另外更重要就是有相關的一個法則請問一下部長你知道嗎市區道路條例的第4條也是規定市區道路的主管機關剛剛講的就是在內政部\n139600\t159667\t第9條您可以看一下就是市區道路兩旁的建築物跟騎樓幾乎遮掩人行道地平面因照市區道路及附屬工程設計保準及配合道路高層的建造不得與鄰近地面高低不平的這個全文第9條您可以看一下其實跟我們\n160427\t185255\t在民國92年12月23號所制定的這個條文是幾乎是一模一樣跟你們現在的行人交通安全設施條例的第九條規定幾乎是一樣然後也同樣有罰則在第33至1條規定會遵其自行改善完成者處新台幣五千元以上兩萬五千元以下的罰還並得按月連續處罰直到改善為止那請問部長\n186335\t186876\t市區道路的這個\n205833\t223918\t條例處理的是在市區在都市計劃範圍裏面但是我們還有其他的一個道路必須要做規範所以這次我們為什麼要訂這個條例是要把市區道路外的其他的道路也幫他納入規範就是都市計劃區外的道路一起納入規範對是沒錯那請問一下部長您之前擔任金融市長8年的時間有遇到這樣的問題的話你們當時是怎麼解決\n231220\t247449\t議員黃甄議員\n247529\t270488\t所以您現在的意思就是現在主責的單位都會拉回來內政部這邊來處理是嗎不管都市計劃區跟都市計劃區外的我們是在這個條例裡面因為每一個法都有主責的機關所以當然是內政部我們是這個法的主責機關當然還有包括交通部其他的這個道路的最主要是交通部那他也會這個適用就是說這個納到這個條例的一個規範裡面\n274566\t283759\t因為原來的法律是授權地方政府解決,地方執行上有困難遇到民眾的反彈的時候,我們要怎麼來處理?反彈指的是,你說這個歧陋整平的部分。\n291883\t309457\t其實整評跟我們這次要處理的這個有點不太一樣但是其中整評很重要的是這個要溝通啦因為最重要的是沒有溝通那他需要滿比較長的一個時間工程的一個手段反而相對是簡單的\n311398\t337840\t請教部長,就是因為剛剛講到騎樓跟人行道接壤的問題其實有很多很複雜的所以包括你看互與互的高低差動與動具的高低差騎樓跟人行道的高低差這些還有涉及到比如機車亂放然後商家的路把不易行走這些問題那在施工方面還有比如說高低差要鋪平還要考慮排水鋪堵雨水倒灌水電瓦斯管路跟地下室平板問題\n339081\t363998\t車輛通行載重的問題所以現在我們依照新的條文第9條可以看到現在內政部把這麼多歷史遺留的問題要丟給建築物所有權人使用人或管理人在兩個月改善剛剛部長有提到這個應該要好好的溝通但現在要求他們在兩個月內改善這樣有辦法好好溝通嗎?\n365751\t386759\t委員我跟您報告一下可能委員有點誤會這個是在整平之後就是我們統一重修完成之後那如果他再去做其他的一個這個破壞或是說擅自改建的話那這個就要要求他兩個月那請問整平重修這個階段你們給多少時間讓他們去做\n387439\t408917\t整憑重修剛剛在跟委員報告,他需要蠻長的一個溝通的時間。我們並沒有去硬性要求地方政府什麼時候把...所以說這也有可能會再拖很久的時間,是這樣的意思嗎?我的經驗是這樣,報告委員,剛剛在講工程的手段其實是最後面,是最簡單的。\n409818\t432552\t但是在前置的一個溝通可能需要蠻長的一個時間這個部分本身希望說當然一定要溝通可是我覺得也要訂定一個時間否則的話也許過了20年還在溝通都還沒有處理因為尤其這個道路交通剛講的道路交通條例這個在92年制定到現在也21年了很多的問題還是沒有解決委員我跟你報告補充一個\n433453\t433893\t議員黃捷等16人擬具\n461258\t473345\t有權考核地方的績效,然後若考評的績效不佳,中央管制官可以檢列相關道路交通計畫的補助額度。請問是要檢列哪一個交通計畫的補助額度?\n478121\t495619\t各位報告因為我們部跟交通部有很多地方的道路補助款那我們是希望你地方提出來既然你願意提出來就把它做好而不是提出來以後又受死不了做不好我們可能就要考慮檢列其他的其他項目不是會檢列其他的其他的\n501417\t523726\t本市認為事實上他做不好一定有他的原因就像部長今天擔任金融市長絕對沒有縣市政府會故意代舵或是績效不彰他一定是有他的原因那他本來就做不好了你又減劣他的補助他就更做不好了所以是看他的積極度也就是你從提案的時候就要開始很慎重我們是希望是說要去探討\n524326\t530089\t以此條文也有特別提到就是說我們要檢列它的一般性的補助或者是交通的補助我覺得這個部分可能也要研擬一下就是說我們的問題我們現在制定這個法律的問題主要就是希望能夠解決問題而不是以這種手段那當然要怎麼樣來解決我相信縣市政府一定都很願意配合\n552442\t571209\t最後一個問題是我們常常看到車子停在路口的紅綠燈時有人賣玉蘭花有人發廣告的傳單在車陣中穿梭非常的危險這個問題是不是也要加入這個納入規範加強取締而且這個可能是跟應該是跟警政署有關\n572176\t572616\t請大家多多支持警察。\n601604\t601724\t許宇甄委員\n","txt":"主席,請林部長。好,請部長\n委員長早我想請教一下部長是在2022年12月的時候CNN Travel有專題將台灣稱作行人地域然後報導中也指出澳洲、加拿大、日本、美國等國在官方旅遊的網站也都建議要提及台灣的道路狀況那美國國務院也是直指許多司機都不尊重行人路權所以CNN的CNN報導\n也指到臺灣若不改善道安的問題將無法吸引及留住國際旅客本席也支持要洗刷行人地域的污名請問部長目前保障行人交通安全洗刷行人地域的主管機關目前就是由內政部負責是嗎我想是這一個法是這一個行人交通安全設施條例現在由內政部來主管\n公懲公懲的這一個部分公懲的部分是由內政部就是剛剛在講今天我們要進行交通安全設施條例我想請教一下我們現行的法有一個市區道路條例已經對道路設施有所規範那市區道路行人的安全的保障這個條例就是內政部主責嘛對不對\n既然已經有市區道路條例規範跟保證行人的交通安全為什麼不從現行的法規去修正因為那一個是新闢的一個著重在新闢的道路但是我們有很多都是已經繼承的道路那一部分也必須要有一個指引有一個規範要求\n另外在新的這個法裡面特別訂定對地方政府相關的一個這個要該辦的這個事項還有另外更重要就是有相關的一個法則請問一下部長你知道嗎市區道路條例的第4條也是規定市區道路的主管機關剛剛講的就是在內政部\n第9條您可以看一下就是市區道路兩旁的建築物跟騎樓幾乎遮掩人行道地平面因照市區道路及附屬工程設計保準及配合道路高層的建造不得與鄰近地面高低不平的這個全文第9條您可以看一下其實跟我們\n在民國92年12月23號所制定的這個條文是幾乎是一模一樣跟你們現在的行人交通安全設施條例的第九條規定幾乎是一樣然後也同樣有罰則在第33至1條規定會遵其自行改善完成者處新台幣五千元以上兩萬五千元以下的罰還並得按月連續處罰直到改善為止那請問部長\n市區道路的這個\n條例處理的是在市區在都市計劃範圍裏面但是我們還有其他的一個道路必須要做規範所以這次我們為什麼要訂這個條例是要把市區道路外的其他的道路也幫他納入規範就是都市計劃區外的道路一起納入規範對是沒錯那請問一下部長您之前擔任金融市長8年的時間有遇到這樣的問題的話你們當時是怎麼解決\n議員黃甄議員\n所以您現在的意思就是現在主責的單位都會拉回來內政部這邊來處理是嗎不管都市計劃區跟都市計劃區外的我們是在這個條例裡面因為每一個法都有主責的機關所以當然是內政部我們是這個法的主責機關當然還有包括交通部其他的這個道路的最主要是交通部那他也會這個適用就是說這個納到這個條例的一個規範裡面\n因為原來的法律是授權地方政府解決,地方執行上有困難遇到民眾的反彈的時候,我們要怎麼來處理?反彈指的是,你說這個歧陋整平的部分。\n其實整評跟我們這次要處理的這個有點不太一樣但是其中整評很重要的是這個要溝通啦因為最重要的是沒有溝通那他需要滿比較長的一個時間工程的一個手段反而相對是簡單的\n請教部長,就是因為剛剛講到騎樓跟人行道接壤的問題其實有很多很複雜的所以包括你看互與互的高低差動與動具的高低差騎樓跟人行道的高低差這些還有涉及到比如機車亂放然後商家的路把不易行走這些問題那在施工方面還有比如說高低差要鋪平還要考慮排水鋪堵雨水倒灌水電瓦斯管路跟地下室平板問題\n車輛通行載重的問題所以現在我們依照新的條文第9條可以看到現在內政部把這麼多歷史遺留的問題要丟給建築物所有權人使用人或管理人在兩個月改善剛剛部長有提到這個應該要好好的溝通但現在要求他們在兩個月內改善這樣有辦法好好溝通嗎?\n委員我跟您報告一下可能委員有點誤會這個是在整平之後就是我們統一重修完成之後那如果他再去做其他的一個這個破壞或是說擅自改建的話那這個就要要求他兩個月那請問整平重修這個階段你們給多少時間讓他們去做\n整憑重修剛剛在跟委員報告,他需要蠻長的一個溝通的時間。我們並沒有去硬性要求地方政府什麼時候把...所以說這也有可能會再拖很久的時間,是這樣的意思嗎?我的經驗是這樣,報告委員,剛剛在講工程的手段其實是最後面,是最簡單的。\n但是在前置的一個溝通可能需要蠻長的一個時間這個部分本身希望說當然一定要溝通可是我覺得也要訂定一個時間否則的話也許過了20年還在溝通都還沒有處理因為尤其這個道路交通剛講的道路交通條例這個在92年制定到現在也21年了很多的問題還是沒有解決委員我跟你報告補充一個\n議員黃捷等16人擬具\n有權考核地方的績效,然後若考評的績效不佳,中央管制官可以檢列相關道路交通計畫的補助額度。請問是要檢列哪一個交通計畫的補助額度?\n各位報告因為我們部跟交通部有很多地方的道路補助款那我們是希望你地方提出來既然你願意提出來就把它做好而不是提出來以後又受死不了做不好我們可能就要考慮檢列其他的其他項目不是會檢列其他的其他的\n本市認為事實上他做不好一定有他的原因就像部長今天擔任金融市長絕對沒有縣市政府會故意代舵或是績效不彰他一定是有他的原因那他本來就做不好了你又減劣他的補助他就更做不好了所以是看他的積極度也就是你從提案的時候就要開始很慎重我們是希望是說要去探討\n以此條文也有特別提到就是說我們要檢列它的一般性的補助或者是交通的補助我覺得這個部分可能也要研擬一下就是說我們的問題我們現在制定這個法律的問題主要就是希望能夠解決問題而不是以這種手段那當然要怎麼樣來解決我相信縣市政府一定都很願意配合\n最後一個問題是我們常常看到車子停在路口的紅綠燈時有人賣玉蘭花有人發廣告的傳單在車陣中穿梭非常的危險這個問題是不是也要加入這個納入規範加強取締而且這個可能是跟應該是跟警政署有關\n請大家多多支持警察。\n許宇甄委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.835 --> 00:11.317\n主席,請林部長。好,請部長\n\n00:17.044 --> 00:41.795\n委員長早我想請教一下部長是在2022年12月的時候CNNTravel有專題將台灣稱作行人地域然後報導中也指出澳洲、加拿大、日本、美國等國在官方旅遊的網站也都建議要提及台灣的道路狀況那美國國務院也是直指許多司機都不尊重行人路權所以CNN的CNN報導\n\n00:42.955 --> 01:05.664\n也指到臺灣若不改善道安的問題將無法吸引及留住國際旅客本席也支持要洗刷行人地域的污名請問部長目前保障行人交通安全洗刷行人地域的主管機關目前就是由內政部負責是嗎我想是這一個法是這一個行人交通安全設施條例現在由內政部來主管\n\n01:12.028 --> 01:35.274\n公懲公懲的這一個部分公懲的部分是由內政部就是剛剛在講今天我們要進行交通安全設施條例我想請教一下我們現行的法有一個市區道路條例已經對道路設施有所規範那市區道路行人的安全的保障這個條例就是內政部主責嘛對不對\n\n01:39.418 --> 01:58.316\n既然已經有市區道路條例規範跟保證行人的交通安全為什麼不從現行的法規去修正因為那一個是新闢的一個著重在新闢的道路但是我們有很多都是已經繼承的道路那一部分也必須要有一個指引有一個規範要求\n\n01:59.557 --> 02:18.919\n另外在新的這個法裡面特別訂定對地方政府相關的一個這個要該辦的這個事項還有另外更重要就是有相關的一個法則請問一下部長你知道嗎市區道路條例的第4條也是規定市區道路的主管機關剛剛講的就是在內政部\n\n02:19.600 --> 02:39.667\n第9條您可以看一下就是市區道路兩旁的建築物跟騎樓幾乎遮掩人行道地平面因照市區道路及附屬工程設計保準及配合道路高層的建造不得與鄰近地面高低不平的這個全文第9條您可以看一下其實跟我們\n\n02:40.427 --> 03:05.255\n在民國92年12月23號所制定的這個條文是幾乎是一模一樣跟你們現在的行人交通安全設施條例的第九條規定幾乎是一樣然後也同樣有罰則在第33至1條規定會遵其自行改善完成者處新台幣五千元以上兩萬五千元以下的罰還並得按月連續處罰直到改善為止那請問部長\n\n03:06.335 --> 03:06.876\n市區道路的這個\n\n03:25.833 --> 03:43.918\n條例處理的是在市區在都市計劃範圍裏面但是我們還有其他的一個道路必須要做規範所以這次我們為什麼要訂這個條例是要把市區道路外的其他的道路也幫他納入規範就是都市計劃區外的道路一起納入規範對是沒錯那請問一下部長您之前擔任金融市長8年的時間有遇到這樣的問題的話你們當時是怎麼解決\n\n04:07.529 --> 04:30.488\n所以您現在的意思就是現在主責的單位都會拉回來內政部這邊來處理是嗎不管都市計劃區跟都市計劃區外的我們是在這個條例裡面因為每一個法都有主責的機關所以當然是內政部我們是這個法的主責機關當然還有包括交通部其他的這個道路的最主要是交通部那他也會這個適用就是說這個納到這個條例的一個規範裡面\n\n04:34.566 --> 04:43.759\n因為原來的法律是授權地方政府解決,地方執行上有困難遇到民眾的反彈的時候,我們要怎麼來處理?反彈指的是,你說這個歧陋整平的部分。\n\n04:51.883 --> 05:09.457\n其實整評跟我們這次要處理的這個有點不太一樣但是其中整評很重要的是這個要溝通啦因為最重要的是沒有溝通那他需要滿比較長的一個時間工程的一個手段反而相對是簡單的\n\n05:11.398 --> 05:37.840\n請教部長,就是因為剛剛講到騎樓跟人行道接壤的問題其實有很多很複雜的所以包括你看互與互的高低差動與動具的高低差騎樓跟人行道的高低差這些還有涉及到比如機車亂放然後商家的路把不易行走這些問題那在施工方面還有比如說高低差要鋪平還要考慮排水鋪堵雨水倒灌水電瓦斯管路跟地下室平板問題\n\n05:39.081 --> 06:03.998\n車輛通行載重的問題所以現在我們依照新的條文第9條可以看到現在內政部把這麼多歷史遺留的問題要丟給建築物所有權人使用人或管理人在兩個月改善剛剛部長有提到這個應該要好好的溝通但現在要求他們在兩個月內改善這樣有辦法好好溝通嗎?\n\n06:05.751 --> 06:26.759\n委員我跟您報告一下可能委員有點誤會這個是在整平之後就是我們統一重修完成之後那如果他再去做其他的一個這個破壞或是說擅自改建的話那這個就要要求他兩個月那請問整平重修這個階段你們給多少時間讓他們去做\n\n06:27.439 --> 06:48.917\n整憑重修剛剛在跟委員報告,他需要蠻長的一個溝通的時間。我們並沒有去硬性要求地方政府什麼時候把...所以說這也有可能會再拖很久的時間,是這樣的意思嗎?我的經驗是這樣,報告委員,剛剛在講工程的手段其實是最後面,是最簡單的。\n\n06:49.818 --> 07:12.552\n但是在前置的一個溝通可能需要蠻長的一個時間這個部分本身希望說當然一定要溝通可是我覺得也要訂定一個時間否則的話也許過了20年還在溝通都還沒有處理因為尤其這個道路交通剛講的道路交通條例這個在92年制定到現在也21年了很多的問題還是沒有解決委員我跟你報告補充一個\n\n07:13.453 --> 07:13.893\n議員黃捷等16人擬具\n\n07:41.258 --> 07:53.345\n有權考核地方的績效,然後若考評的績效不佳,中央管制官可以檢列相關道路交通計畫的補助額度。請問是要檢列哪一個交通計畫的補助額度?\n\n07:58.121 --> 08:15.619\n各位報告因為我們部跟交通部有很多地方的道路補助款那我們是希望你地方提出來既然你願意提出來就把它做好而不是提出來以後又受死不了做不好我們可能就要考慮檢列其他的其他項目不是會檢列其他的其他的\n\n08:21.417 --> 08:43.726\n本市認為事實上他做不好一定有他的原因就像部長今天擔任金融市長絕對沒有縣市政府會故意代舵或是績效不彰他一定是有他的原因那他本來就做不好了你又減劣他的補助他就更做不好了所以是看他的積極度也就是你從提案的時候就要開始很慎重我們是希望是說要去探討\n\n08:44.326 --> 08:50.089\n以此條文也有特別提到就是說我們要檢列它的一般性的補助或者是交通的補助我覺得這個部分可能也要研擬一下就是說我們的問題我們現在制定這個法律的問題主要就是希望能夠解決問題而不是以這種手段那當然要怎麼樣來解決我相信縣市政府一定都很願意配合\n\n09:12.442 --> 09:31.209\n最後一個問題是我們常常看到車子停在路口的紅綠燈時有人賣玉蘭花有人發廣告的傳單在車陣中穿梭非常的危險這個問題是不是也要加入這個納入規範加強取締而且這個可能是跟應該是跟警政署有關\n\n09:32.176 --> 09:32.616\n請大家多多支持警察。\n\n10:01.604 --> 10:01.724\n許宇甄委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.835,"end":11.317,"text":"主席,請林部長。好,請部長"},{"start":17.044,"end":41.795,"text":"委員長早我想請教一下部長是在2022年12月的時候CNN Travel有專題將台灣稱作行人地域然後報導中也指出澳洲、加拿大、日本、美國等國在官方旅遊的網站也都建議要提及台灣的道路狀況那美國國務院也是直指許多司機都不尊重行人路權所以CNN的CNN報導"},{"start":42.955,"end":65.664,"text":"也指到臺灣若不改善道安的問題將無法吸引及留住國際旅客本席也支持要洗刷行人地域的污名請問部長目前保障行人交通安全洗刷行人地域的主管機關目前就是由內政部負責是嗎我想是這一個法是這一個行人交通安全設施條例現在由內政部來主管"},{"start":72.028,"end":95.274,"text":"公懲公懲的這一個部分公懲的部分是由內政部就是剛剛在講今天我們要進行交通安全設施條例我想請教一下我們現行的法有一個市區道路條例已經對道路設施有所規範那市區道路行人的安全的保障這個條例就是內政部主責嘛對不對"},{"start":99.418,"end":118.316,"text":"既然已經有市區道路條例規範跟保證行人的交通安全為什麼不從現行的法規去修正因為那一個是新闢的一個著重在新闢的道路但是我們有很多都是已經繼承的道路那一部分也必須要有一個指引有一個規範要求"},{"start":119.557,"end":138.919,"text":"另外在新的這個法裡面特別訂定對地方政府相關的一個這個要該辦的這個事項還有另外更重要就是有相關的一個法則請問一下部長你知道嗎市區道路條例的第4條也是規定市區道路的主管機關剛剛講的就是在內政部"},{"start":139.6,"end":159.667,"text":"第9條您可以看一下就是市區道路兩旁的建築物跟騎樓幾乎遮掩人行道地平面因照市區道路及附屬工程設計保準及配合道路高層的建造不得與鄰近地面高低不平的這個全文第9條您可以看一下其實跟我們"},{"start":160.427,"end":185.255,"text":"在民國92年12月23號所制定的這個條文是幾乎是一模一樣跟你們現在的行人交通安全設施條例的第九條規定幾乎是一樣然後也同樣有罰則在第33至1條規定會遵其自行改善完成者處新台幣五千元以上兩萬五千元以下的罰還並得按月連續處罰直到改善為止那請問部長"},{"start":186.335,"end":186.876,"text":"市區道路的這個"},{"start":205.833,"end":223.918,"text":"條例處理的是在市區在都市計劃範圍裏面但是我們還有其他的一個道路必須要做規範所以這次我們為什麼要訂這個條例是要把市區道路外的其他的道路也幫他納入規範就是都市計劃區外的道路一起納入規範對是沒錯那請問一下部長您之前擔任金融市長8年的時間有遇到這樣的問題的話你們當時是怎麼解決"},{"start":231.22,"end":247.449,"text":"議員黃甄議員"},{"start":247.529,"end":270.488,"text":"所以您現在的意思就是現在主責的單位都會拉回來內政部這邊來處理是嗎不管都市計劃區跟都市計劃區外的我們是在這個條例裡面因為每一個法都有主責的機關所以當然是內政部我們是這個法的主責機關當然還有包括交通部其他的這個道路的最主要是交通部那他也會這個適用就是說這個納到這個條例的一個規範裡面"},{"start":274.566,"end":283.759,"text":"因為原來的法律是授權地方政府解決,地方執行上有困難遇到民眾的反彈的時候,我們要怎麼來處理?反彈指的是,你說這個歧陋整平的部分。"},{"start":291.883,"end":309.457,"text":"其實整評跟我們這次要處理的這個有點不太一樣但是其中整評很重要的是這個要溝通啦因為最重要的是沒有溝通那他需要滿比較長的一個時間工程的一個手段反而相對是簡單的"},{"start":311.398,"end":337.84,"text":"請教部長,就是因為剛剛講到騎樓跟人行道接壤的問題其實有很多很複雜的所以包括你看互與互的高低差動與動具的高低差騎樓跟人行道的高低差這些還有涉及到比如機車亂放然後商家的路把不易行走這些問題那在施工方面還有比如說高低差要鋪平還要考慮排水鋪堵雨水倒灌水電瓦斯管路跟地下室平板問題"},{"start":339.081,"end":363.998,"text":"車輛通行載重的問題所以現在我們依照新的條文第9條可以看到現在內政部把這麼多歷史遺留的問題要丟給建築物所有權人使用人或管理人在兩個月改善剛剛部長有提到這個應該要好好的溝通但現在要求他們在兩個月內改善這樣有辦法好好溝通嗎?"},{"start":365.751,"end":386.759,"text":"委員我跟您報告一下可能委員有點誤會這個是在整平之後就是我們統一重修完成之後那如果他再去做其他的一個這個破壞或是說擅自改建的話那這個就要要求他兩個月那請問整平重修這個階段你們給多少時間讓他們去做"},{"start":387.439,"end":408.917,"text":"整憑重修剛剛在跟委員報告,他需要蠻長的一個溝通的時間。我們並沒有去硬性要求地方政府什麼時候把...所以說這也有可能會再拖很久的時間,是這樣的意思嗎?我的經驗是這樣,報告委員,剛剛在講工程的手段其實是最後面,是最簡單的。"},{"start":409.818,"end":432.552,"text":"但是在前置的一個溝通可能需要蠻長的一個時間這個部分本身希望說當然一定要溝通可是我覺得也要訂定一個時間否則的話也許過了20年還在溝通都還沒有處理因為尤其這個道路交通剛講的道路交通條例這個在92年制定到現在也21年了很多的問題還是沒有解決委員我跟你報告補充一個"},{"start":433.453,"end":433.893,"text":"議員黃捷等16人擬具"},{"start":461.258,"end":473.345,"text":"有權考核地方的績效,然後若考評的績效不佳,中央管制官可以檢列相關道路交通計畫的補助額度。請問是要檢列哪一個交通計畫的補助額度?"},{"start":478.121,"end":495.619,"text":"各位報告因為我們部跟交通部有很多地方的道路補助款那我們是希望你地方提出來既然你願意提出來就把它做好而不是提出來以後又受死不了做不好我們可能就要考慮檢列其他的其他項目不是會檢列其他的其他的"},{"start":501.417,"end":523.726,"text":"本市認為事實上他做不好一定有他的原因就像部長今天擔任金融市長絕對沒有縣市政府會故意代舵或是績效不彰他一定是有他的原因那他本來就做不好了你又減劣他的補助他就更做不好了所以是看他的積極度也就是你從提案的時候就要開始很慎重我們是希望是說要去探討"},{"start":524.326,"end":530.089,"text":"以此條文也有特別提到就是說我們要檢列它的一般性的補助或者是交通的補助我覺得這個部分可能也要研擬一下就是說我們的問題我們現在制定這個法律的問題主要就是希望能夠解決問題而不是以這種手段那當然要怎麼樣來解決我相信縣市政府一定都很願意配合"},{"start":552.442,"end":571.209,"text":"最後一個問題是我們常常看到車子停在路口的紅綠燈時有人賣玉蘭花有人發廣告的傳單在車陣中穿梭非常的危險這個問題是不是也要加入這個納入規範加強取締而且這個可能是跟應該是跟警政署有關"},{"start":572.176,"end":572.616,"text":"請大家多多支持警察。"},{"start":601.604,"end":601.724,"text":"許宇甄委員"}]}}}}