{"id":150471,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150471","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d503f5446b592909606e9ac27f41e17f3cf8ba9b0039caa7a651333fc182bd9e865ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"10:29:04 - 10:40:48","影片長度":"00:11:44","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長及行政院相關機關（含事業單位）列席就「政府機關推動人事服務數位轉型」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。\n【其中7案如經院會復議，則不予審查、處理】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":704,"end_time":"2024-03-27T10:40:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T10:29:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":701,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時29分）謝謝主席。有請蘇俊榮人事長。"],["主席：有請人事長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：還有請公務人力發展學院的陳明忠院長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早。"],["莊委員瑞雄：人事長還有我們的陳院長，我想大家有注意到這幾年來，臺灣確實面臨到愈來愈少人願意報考公務人員的一個狀況，從考選部的統計資料也可以發現，從民國98年高考報考人數6萬人，101年報考人數巔峰到七萬多，但是從此以後人數一直下降，到112年剩下三萬多人報考而已，我再給你們看數字；普考也一樣是下滑的趨勢，還有雙報考的情形，101年報考人數9萬，如果有雙報考的，那實際上的人數又更少了，之後年年下降，到了去年就只有三萬多人報考；初等考試的情況更慘，從民國98年九萬多人到去年剩下一萬多人，14年減少了79%。人事長還有陳院長，從考試院送到本院的報告裡面也可以發現，2022年公務人員離職人數是1萬3,500人，比2021年的1萬990人增加22.8%，其中退休人數跟辭職人數都有明顯漲幅。","人事長、陳院長，其實公務人員越來越少人報考不是只有臺灣，你看日本也一樣，日本今年春天的報考人數是1.4萬，這也是日本史上第2低，他們在過去10年的公務人員報考人數也減少差不多30%，所以日本的人事院計畫向政府提議調整公務人員勤務，除了彈性工作制以外，無論什麼原因都可以選擇週休3天，日本現在也沒想到辦法，所以他們現在在思考用這樣的方式，日本選擇這麼做，就是希望透過彈性的工作制改善日本公職工時過長、過勞的問題。那我們臺灣公務人員又面臨到什麼樣的問題呢？在十幾年前，我看PTT論壇的公務人員考試板都是高度熱門板，大家都會去互通有無，但是現在只要提到公務人員，大家都會說不要啦、不要去啦！都會去勸退。綜合考公務人員的缺點，最多人認為根本的原因是什麼，你知道嗎？報考成本過高，薪水不夠高、福利不夠多，當然有部分是因為年金改革的疑慮，多少一定有。但從報考成本來看的話，我請兩位仔細來看一下，多數公務人員其實都有補習的經驗，市場上也有各式各樣的補習班任君挑選，市面上的補習班不管是面授還是函授，最低行情差不多都要4萬，高一點的話甚至要到8萬，這還只是補習的金額哦！如果是全職的考生還有生活費的問題，成本會更高。根據考選部的統計，以高考為例，平均要考幾次，人事長，你知道嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：2.7次。"],["莊委員瑞雄：對，2.7次，也就是說3年才考得上，這段時間的金錢成本、時間成本，都是影響報考的重要因素，所以考生現在當然也很會算啊，沒有符合成本效益的話，有人乾脆想說就另謀出路，這其實就是一個惡性循環。我們一直在討論公務人員的員額問題，但如果報名的人越來越少，最後下一個世代是不是要面臨國家招不到優秀公務人員的危機？所以這個問題我要請教人事長，你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：因應少子化的部分，我們現在在做的就是……"],["莊委員瑞雄：我不認為這是因為少子化的關係。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我覺得這有很多複合式因素在裡面，像是剛剛委員所提到的待遇問題，還是他要進到這個場域的投資成本問題，這些都是原因。所以我們現在努力的方向就是如何把公務人員的待遇拉上來，因為待遇是很現實的，待遇不好的話，他當然會選擇去國營事業，不然就去民營，所以政府機關要把待遇拉上來，我覺得這是一個fundamental、很基本必須要去處理的問題；再來就是其他的福利事項是不是可以再增加，讓大家有意願進來公家機關服務。"],["莊委員瑞雄：民進黨執政以後推動年金改革，你說跟公務人員的保障其實沒有關係，公務人員也聽不下去，但本席倒認為那是兩件事，我們一直在講說，世世代代領得到，長長久久領到老，其實各個政黨在執政的時候都認為年金不改革真的會破產；但是公務人員的保障又是另外一件事，公務人員的身分、福利，本來就是應該要去保障他。而對於年金改革的部分，本席也看到國民黨委員提案說要遞減所得替代率，來停止調整公教人員的年金，本席是認為這是不顧風險、大走回頭路，改革本來就是不太容易。大家去看看希臘的國債，那麼多國家支持，也提出相關的年金改革，以現在來看的話，以各國的退休年金請領年齡跟所得替代率來看，臺灣到2029年的所得替代率還是62.5%，就世界潮流來看，臺灣是65歲退休，德國、美國、英國都是67歲，而所得替代的部分，日本、德國、美國都還有50%。所以本席要請教人事長的是，對於年金改革影響公務人員的報考部分，對於外界你有沒有覺得應該釋疑的地方？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我從數據資料來看，報考人數降低是大概從102年就開始往下降，不是從107年的年改開始，那是一個實際上的數字。第二個，我要跟委員報告，因為現在到考率大概是六、七成，我們錄取率都維持10%，這些是長期的，所以現在公務人力的需求，到考率還有錄取率剛好每一年大概是四千、五千人，需求大概是4,000人，考上的人大概是5,000，大概可以cover我們政府整體的人力需求，目前的情況是這樣。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我要請教公務人力發展學院陳院長，難道都沒有人跟你們反映公務人員的福利保障？我就舉國民旅遊卡來講，我們常常看到、聽到的抱怨就是說國旅卡實在是不好用，你去PTT看，我相信很多人也是罵聲連連。大家也很清楚，國民旅遊卡本質上是不休假加班費，那你怎麼樣去運用，公務人員原本就是按照日薪請領不休假加班費，特休沒有休完，政府就以日薪乘以未休完的天數來給錢，從2000年以後政府強制用1萬6,000元定額補助取代加班費，藉此來鼓勵休假。政策要去引導，其實也不能說不對，但問題就是你要做到公平，2017年開始硬性規定8,000元要消費在觀光旅遊業，即國內團旅的部分，這也可以，只是額度沒有用完不能累積，政府收回去，這個不太合理。陳院長，你都沒聽過人家這麼說嗎？"],["陳院長明忠：報告委員，這個部分確實有接到很多公務同仁的反映，不過總處針對國旅卡，其實都有持續接收公務人員還有其他政府機關的建議，我們都有逐步來研議。"],["莊委員瑞雄：振興國內觀光或是刺激內需、鼓勵公務人員休假，這個都值得獎勵，但是你不要有兩套標準。譬如說，為什麼提振國內觀光、刺激內需消費，是拿公務人員本來的加班費，叫他們來補助其他產業？「摸蜊仔兼洗褲」是好事，但是這樣其實怪怪的，我認為這個就很奇怪，尤其是8,000加8,000的部分。我問你，你說這叫做國民旅遊卡，我看這叫做共體時艱卡，這沒有道理啊，我覺得這個沒有道理啊！好，一般就只能8,000、8,000，對不對？那我要問，為什麼法官的就全部都隨他們用？你說法官是因為他的案子很多，所以要鼓勵他趕快結案，我們不要管他、我們不要強制他去消費，讓他自己去用他的錢也沒關係，那其他的公務人員呢？這就不對，因為事件的本質就是因為他不休假，政府用錢作為保障，但你強制司法官以外的其他公務人員，設定這種使用規則，這樣合理嗎？人事長、院長，這樣合理嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告，國旅卡只有規範行政院的部分，但是剛剛委員所提的部分，我們會回去好好檢討。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我是覺得這個不對。請移民署陳副署長。"],["主席：請陳副署長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：陳副署長，我最後來請教你，難道你們的弟兄沒有很辛苦嗎？"],["陳副署長建成：是，大家都很辛苦。"],["莊委員瑞雄：警察局難道不辛苦？警察同仁難道不辛苦？"],["陳副署長建成：是，都很辛苦。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那為什麼同樣都是公務人員，這一筆錢你又給他不一樣的使用方式？我們怎麼對外說理？不是，你不能只是笑而已，要幫他們解決啊。"],["陳副署長建成：我們要尊重……其實一般來說，現在我們同仁也會利用國民旅遊卡帶著家人去旅遊，事實上也都是這樣在消費。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我跟你說，我是在替你們說話，這條本來叫做公務人員特休，這本來就是公務人員的啦，這錢本來就要補給人家的啦，如果花不完又要收回來，你現在又要限制人家要怎麼用，不然就公務人員全部都比照辦理，還要挑人，不好！我覺得這個要檢討，好不好？"],["陳副署長建成：謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：人事長，合理吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們同意檢討。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個應該檢討啦，那麼久了，我是覺得不要在那邊繞啦，本來該屬於公務人員的，我再強調一次，年金改革是一件事，那個真的是要世世代代，但是對公務人員的保障、福利又是另外一件事。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：相同的東西，我們沒有正當合理的理由，不要做這種差別待遇啦，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員，謝謝人事長，謝謝院長和副署長。","在此先作程序的宣告：稍後在謝委員龍介詢答完畢後休息5分鐘。","接續請吳委員思瑤進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-9","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","陳俊宇","林思銘","羅智強","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","謝龍介","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw"],"page_start":151,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長及行政院相關機關（含事業單位）列席就「政府機關推動人\n事服務數位轉型」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政\n院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共7案","agenda_id":"1132001_00017"}},"transcript":{"id":"150471","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150471","tool":"pyannote","id":"150471-pyannote"},"job_id":"wZq8ObqUpXSPsM9m","queued_at":"2024-06-01 19:06:25","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 19:06:25","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150471"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:06:26","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d503f5446b592909606e9ac27f41e17f3c86695701d999525fba60f46e32a191315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:06:46","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-01 19:06:49","msg":"running 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\"也不能說不對但問題就是說你要做到會公平2017年你開始硬性規定8000元你要消費在觀光旅遊業啊國內的團旅的部分啊這也可以只是說額度沒有用完你不能累積請勿讓人收回沒什麼通陳院長你都沒聽到有人這樣說嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 477.096, \"end\": 477.256, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 477.256, \"end\": 477.336, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 477.336, \"end\": 477.656, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 477.656, \"end\": 478.657, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 478.657, \"end\": 478.757, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 478.757, \"end\": 479.118, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 479.118, \"end\": 479.778, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 479.778, \"end\": 479.878, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 479.878, \"end\": 480.078, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 480.078, \"end\": 480.258, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 480.258, 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\"!\"}]}, {\"start\": 557.947, \"end\": 585.432, \"text\": \"我來問您啦,您說這叫國民旅遊卡,我看這都叫共體時間卡,怎麼這麼沒道理啊,我這麼覺得沒道理啊,好,那一般你們就只能8000、8000對不對,那我要問啊,那為什麼法官的就全部屬在一樣?你說啊法官是因為他案子很多,所以要鼓勵他趕快結案,我們就不要管他,讓他呢,我們不要強制他去消費,讓他把他贏得錢而已沒關係,那其他的公務人員呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 557.947, \"end\": 558.427, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 558.427, \"end\": 558.727, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 558.727, \"end\": 559.207, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 559.207, \"end\": 559.628, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"叫\", \"start\": 559.628, \"end\": 559.988, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 559.988, \"end\": 560.148, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"旅\", \"start\": 560.148, \"end\": 560.408, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"遊\"}, {\"word\": \"卡\", \"start\": 560.408, \"end\": 561.348, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": 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\"種\"}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 700.314, \"end\": 700.454, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 700.454, \"end\": 700.554, \"score\": 0.607}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 700.554, \"end\": 700.715, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"遇\", \"start\": 700.715, \"end\": 700.815, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 700.815, \"end\": 700.835, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 700.835, \"end\": 700.895, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 700.895, \"end\": 700.915, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 700.915, \"end\": 700.975, \"score\": 0.225}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 700.975, \"end\": 700.995, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 700.995, \"end\": 701.015, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:11,874\n委員質詢。謝謝。謝謝主席。有請我們蘇俊隆人事長。有請人事長。還有請我們公務人力發展學院我們的陳明忠陳院長。委員長。\n\n2\n00:00:19,878 --> 00:00:40,086\n市長還有我們陳院長我想大家有去注意到這幾年來台灣確實是面臨到越來越少人願意報考公務人員這樣的一個狀況從考選部的統計資料其實也可以發現看這個資料就是說從民國98年高考報考人數6萬人\n\n3\n00:00:43,328 --> 00:01:09,658\n6萬。101年報考人數巔峰到7萬多,但是從此以後人數一直下降,到112年剩下3萬多,3萬多報考,我這補考給你們看。那普考也同樣一樣,下滑的一個趨勢,那你還碰到有雙報考的事情,那101年報考人數9萬,你如果有雙報考,那人又更多了,之後年年下降,到了去年3萬多人報考。\n\n4\n00:01:10,538 --> 00:01:14,569\n那你到初等考試的情況那更慘從民國98年9萬多到去年剩下1萬多人14當內的減70高趴\n\n5\n00:01:19,736 --> 00:01:46,806\n人事長還有那個陳院長那你從考試院送到本院的報告裡面也可以發現2022年公務人員離職率一般三千個比2021年的一萬九百九十人增加了22.8%其中退休人數跟辭職人數都有明顯的一個漲幅其實人事長還有陳院長公務人員越來越少人報考這不是只有台灣\n\n6\n00:01:48,154 --> 00:02:01,423\n你看看日本也一樣日本今年春天報考人數1.4萬這個也是日本史上第二低過去10年工人報考他也減到30%所以日本的人事院\n\n7\n00:02:02,762 --> 00:02:20,733\n他們計劃向政府提議,調整公務人員勤務的時候,除了彈性工資以外,無論什麼原因都可以選擇週休3天。日本現在也沒有補,所以這間日本人現在這樣在屬客。日本選擇這麼做,他就是希望說,透過彈性的一個工資改善日本工資工時過長過老這樣的一個問題,那我們台灣公務人員會面臨到什麼樣的問題呢?\n\n8\n00:02:26,696 --> 00:02:46,689\n在十幾年前我看那個PPT那個論壇上公務人員考試版都是高度的熱門的一個版大家都會去互通有無但是只要提到現在說講公務人員大家會說不要去啦都會用勸退啦那綜合了對於考這個考公務人員的缺點以外最多人認為根本的原因是什麼事你知道嗎\n\n9\n00:02:48,807 --> 00:03:17,201\n報考成本過高,選稅不夠高、福利不夠多當然有一部分你說年金改革的餘率已經減減減減一定有嘛那從報考成本來看的話我請兩位來仔細的看一下就是說多數的公務人員其實喔差不多都有保釋的經驗啦市場上也有各式各樣的補習班的任君挑選啦市面上的補習班看來不管是你說面授啊還是去寒授啊那上屆行政職都要試班啦\n\n10\n00:03:17,921 --> 00:03:34,504\n高一點的話甚至要到8萬啦這個還只是補習的一個金額喔如果說是一個全職的考生來看的話還有生活費的問題啊還要多管啊所以同樣啊你去根據我們整個考選部的一個統計啊以高考為例啊平均要考幾次人事長你知道嗎\n\n11\n00:03:36,699 --> 00:03:59,459\n二點七次。二點七次。也就是說三當那課會對啦。這段時間發揮的金錢的成本、時間的成本都應得到報考的重要因素。所以考生當然現在審判也很困難,沒有符合那個成本的一個效益啊。有人乾脆想說我就另抹出路啦。這其實就是一個惡性上的一個循環啦。我們一直在討論公務人員的緣有的一個問題啊。\n\n12\n00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:19,307\n但如果報名的人越來越少最後下一個世代是不是要面臨國家招不到優秀工人的一個危機啊所以這個問題我請教人事長你基本上你的看法是怎麼樣事實上因應少子化的這個部分事實上我們現在在做的就是說我沒想到這是少子化\n\n13\n00:04:21,142 --> 00:04:42,396\n我覺得那些都很多的複合式因素在裡面啊。就像昨天委員說的那個台股的問題還是他要進到這個場域來投資成本的問題,這些都是原因。所以我們現在努力的就是如何去把公務人員的待遇拉上來,因為台股是很小的嘛。\n\n14\n00:04:42,856 --> 00:04:44,837\n民進黨執政以後我們對臨近改革這樣的一個推動\n\n15\n00:05:11,204 --> 00:05:33,452\n其實跟公務人員的一個保障啊你說他沒關係公務人員他也聽不下去但短期到認為那是兩件事啊我們一直在講說世世代代領得到長長久久可以領到老那個就是其實各個政黨在執政的時候都認為年金不改革他真的是會破產但是公務人員的一個保障我這個另外一件事喔\n\n16\n00:05:33,812 --> 00:05:50,984\n公務人員本來他的福利他的身份你本來就是該去保障他那同樣對年金改革的一個履歷我本席也看到國民黨委員提案說要停止地檢所得替代率來停止調整公教的年金本席倒是認為說這個是不顧風險的一個大走回頭路\n\n17\n00:05:52,438 --> 00:06:09,907\n改革本來就是不太容易大家去看看希臘的一個國債那麼多國家的一個支持也提出了相關的年金的一個改革以現在來看的話以各國的一個退休年金的勤領年齡所跟所得替代率來看你台灣到2029年開始所得替代率我們還是62.5\n\n18\n00:06:11,548 --> 00:06:30,854\n就世界潮流來看,台灣是從65歲、低高、低低高、低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、\n\n19\n00:06:33,082 --> 00:06:48,423\n我從數據資料來看報考人數降低大概102年就開始往下降不是107年年改那是這個數字那是一個數字的數字第二個就是我要委員報告因為現在就到考率大概六七成\n\n20\n00:06:49,304 --> 00:07:11,117\n入企率都維持10%嘛,這一些是一個長期的,所以我們現在公務人力的需求的這一種,你有去倒考慮,剛好每一年大概四五千人,需求大概四千嘛,客流大概五千,大概可以cover我們的政府整體的人力需求,目前的情況是這樣。\n\n21\n00:07:12,011 --> 00:07:26,591\n我要請教我們公務人、人力發展學院的陳院長就是說,你們感冒都沒人給你們歡迎,談到公務人員的福利保障,我就舉我們的國民旅遊卡來講啦。你像比如說我們常常看到、聽到的抱怨就是說,國旅卡實在是不好用啦。\n\n22\n00:07:27,972 --> 00:07:55,409\n你去PTV版我相信很多人也是罵聲連連那國民旅遊卡本質上大家也很清楚是一個不休假的一個加班費那你怎麼樣去運用公務人員原本本來就是按照日薪去請領不休假的加班費特休沒有休完那隔天政府又說日薪成癮未休完了幾天來給錢我們從2000年以後政府強制用一萬六定額補助取代加班費你藉此來鼓勵休假政策要去引導其實\n\n23\n00:07:57,096 --> 00:08:17,131\n也不能說不對但問題就是說你要做到會公平2017年你開始硬性規定8000元你要消費在觀光旅遊業啊國內的團旅的部分啊這也可以只是說額度沒有用完你不能累積請勿讓人收回沒什麼通陳院長你都沒聽到有人這樣說嗎\n\n24\n00:08:22,118 --> 00:08:22,558\n政經國內觀光\n\n25\n00:08:46,627 --> 00:08:53,792\n而是說刺激內需鼓勵公務人員休假,這個都值得獎勵啦!但是你不要創那個相當標準的啦!我是覺得,你譬如說為什麼提振國內觀光、刺激內需消費,是因為公務人員本地的他的加班費,你來叫人來補助其他的產業、目錄檢視庫也好事啦!但是這個怪怪的,你知道嗎?我認為這個就很奇怪!尤其你這個8000加8000這個部分齁!\n\n26\n00:09:17,947 --> 00:09:45,432\n我來問您啦,您說這叫國民旅遊卡,我看這都叫共體時間卡,怎麼這麼沒道理啊,我這麼覺得沒道理啊,好,那一般你們就只能8000、8000對不對,那我要問啊,那為什麼法官的就全部屬在一樣?你說啊法官是因為他案子很多,所以要鼓勵他趕快結案,我們就不要管他,讓他呢,我們不要強制他去消費,讓他把他贏得錢而已沒關係,那其他的公務人員呢?\n\n27\n00:09:46,479 --> 00:09:56,486\n就不對,因為事件的本質,就是你不修正。政府用一天保護人的,你強制司法官以外的,其他你就要設定這種實用的規則。這樣感動人事長?院長,這樣感動?\n\n28\n00:10:01,731 --> 00:10:21,750\n那我給委員報告,那個國理卡我是給他規範行政的部分,但是台灣委員你說的那個我會回去好好檢討啦。這個我是覺得這不對。喂,來來,移民署家,陳建成,你那邊有沒有...陳副署長我最後來請教你,難道你們的弟兄沒有很辛苦嗎?\n\n29\n00:10:24,636 --> 00:10:25,717\n因為我們要尊重\n\n30\n00:10:42,355 --> 00:10:57,080\n其實一般來說我們現在的同仁也會利用這個國民旅遊卡帶著家人去旅遊這個事實上也都是這樣在消費我告訴你,我是在替你們講話這條叫做本地的公務人員特殊的啦那本地的公務人員會啦那錢就本地要補給別人啦那蓋不住要人收回來現在又喊這些人要怎麼贏要喊這些人贏不就公務人員全部都比照辦理\n\n31\n00:11:11,505 --> 00:11:11,625\n公務人員\n\n32\n00:11:26,943 --> 00:11:41,015\n我再強調一次喔年金改革是一件事喔那個真的是要世世代代喔但是為公務人員的保障他的福利那又另外一件事喔好不好相同的東西我們不要做那種沒有正當合理的理由不要做這種差別待遇好不好好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t11874\t委員質詢。謝謝。謝謝主席。有請我們蘇俊隆人事長。有請人事長。還有請我們公務人力發展學院我們的陳明忠陳院長。委員長。\n19878\t40086\t市長還有我們陳院長我想大家有去注意到這幾年來台灣確實是面臨到越來越少人願意報考公務人員這樣的一個狀況從考選部的統計資料其實也可以發現看這個資料就是說從民國98年高考報考人數6萬人\n43328\t69658\t6萬。101年報考人數巔峰到7萬多,但是從此以後人數一直下降,到112年剩下3萬多,3萬多報考,我這補考給你們看。那普考也同樣一樣,下滑的一個趨勢,那你還碰到有雙報考的事情,那101年報考人數9萬,你如果有雙報考,那人又更多了,之後年年下降,到了去年3萬多人報考。\n70538\t74569\t那你到初等考試的情況那更慘從民國98年9萬多到去年剩下1萬多人14當內的減70高趴\n79736\t106806\t人事長還有那個陳院長那你從考試院送到本院的報告裡面也可以發現2022年公務人員離職率一般三千個比2021年的一萬九百九十人增加了22.8%其中退休人數跟辭職人數都有明顯的一個漲幅其實人事長還有陳院長公務人員越來越少人報考這不是只有台灣\n108154\t121423\t你看看日本也一樣日本今年春天報考人數1.4萬這個也是日本史上第二低過去10年工人報考他也減到30%所以日本的人事院\n122762\t140733\t他們計劃向政府提議,調整公務人員勤務的時候,除了彈性工資以外,無論什麼原因都可以選擇週休3天。日本現在也沒有補,所以這間日本人現在這樣在屬客。日本選擇這麼做,他就是希望說,透過彈性的一個工資改善日本工資工時過長過老這樣的一個問題,那我們台灣公務人員會面臨到什麼樣的問題呢?\n146696\t166689\t在十幾年前我看那個PPT那個論壇上公務人員考試版都是高度的熱門的一個版大家都會去互通有無但是只要提到現在說講公務人員大家會說不要去啦都會用勸退啦那綜合了對於考這個考公務人員的缺點以外最多人認為根本的原因是什麼事你知道嗎\n168807\t197201\t報考成本過高,選稅不夠高、福利不夠多當然有一部分你說年金改革的餘率已經減減減減一定有嘛那從報考成本來看的話我請兩位來仔細的看一下就是說多數的公務人員其實喔差不多都有保釋的經驗啦市場上也有各式各樣的補習班的任君挑選啦市面上的補習班看來不管是你說面授啊還是去寒授啊那上屆行政職都要試班啦\n197921\t214504\t高一點的話甚至要到8萬啦 這個還只是補習的一個金額喔如果說是一個全職的考生來看的話 還有生活費的問題啊 還要多管啊所以同樣啊 你去根據我們整個考選部的一個統計啊 以高考為例啊 平均要考幾次 人事長你知道嗎\n216699\t239459\t二點七次。二點七次。也就是說三當那課會對啦。這段時間發揮的金錢的成本、時間的成本都應得到報考的重要因素。所以考生當然現在審判也很困難,沒有符合那個成本的一個效益啊。有人乾脆想說我就另抹出路啦。這其實就是一個惡性上的一個循環啦。我們一直在討論公務人員的緣有的一個問題啊。\n240640\t259307\t但如果報名的人越來越少最後下一個世代是不是要面臨國家招不到優秀工人的一個危機啊所以這個問題我請教人事長你基本上你的看法是怎麼樣事實上因應少子化的這個部分事實上我們現在在做的就是說我沒想到這是少子化\n261142\t282396\t我覺得那些都很多的複合式因素在裡面啊。就像昨天委員說的那個台股的問題還是他要進到這個場域來投資成本的問題,這些都是原因。所以我們現在努力的就是如何去把公務人員的待遇拉上來,因為台股是很小的嘛。\n282856\t284837\t民進黨執政以後我們對臨近改革這樣的一個推動\n311204\t333452\t其實跟公務人員的一個保障啊你說他沒關係公務人員他也聽不下去但短期到認為那是兩件事啊我們一直在講說世世代代領得到長長久久可以領到老那個就是其實各個政黨在執政的時候都認為年金不改革他真的是會破產但是公務人員的一個保障我這個另外一件事喔\n333812\t350984\t公務人員本來他的福利他的身份你本來就是該去保障他那同樣對年金改革的一個履歷我本席也看到國民黨委員提案說要停止地檢所得替代率來停止調整公教的年金本席倒是認為說這個是不顧風險的一個大走回頭路\n352438\t369907\t改革本來就是不太容易大家去看看希臘的一個國債那麼多國家的一個支持也提出了相關的年金的一個改革以現在來看的話以各國的一個退休年金的勤領年齡所跟所得替代率來看你台灣到2029年開始所得替代率我們還是62.5\n371548\t390854\t就世界潮流來看,台灣是從65歲、低高、低低高、低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、\n393082\t408423\t我從數據資料來看報考人數降低大概102年就開始往下降不是107年年改那是這個數字那是一個數字的數字第二個就是我要委員報告因為現在就到考率大概六七成\n409304\t431117\t入企率都維持10%嘛,這一些是一個長期的,所以我們現在公務人力的需求的這一種,你有去倒考慮,剛好每一年大概四五千人,需求大概四千嘛,客流大概五千,大概可以cover我們的政府整體的人力需求,目前的情況是這樣。\n432011\t446591\t我要請教我們公務人、人力發展學院的陳院長就是說,你們感冒都沒人給你們歡迎,談到公務人員的福利保障,我就舉我們的國民旅遊卡來講啦。你像比如說我們常常看到、聽到的抱怨就是說,國旅卡實在是不好用啦。\n447972\t475409\t你去PTV版我相信很多人也是罵聲連連那國民旅遊卡本質上大家也很清楚是一個不休假的一個加班費那你怎麼樣去運用公務人員原本本來就是按照日薪去請領不休假的加班費特休沒有休完那隔天政府又說日薪成癮未休完了幾天來給錢我們從2000年以後政府強制用一萬六定額補助取代加班費你藉此來鼓勵休假政策要去引導其實\n477096\t497131\t也不能說不對但問題就是說你要做到會公平2017年你開始硬性規定8000元你要消費在觀光旅遊業啊國內的團旅的部分啊這也可以只是說額度沒有用完你不能累積請勿讓人收回沒什麼通陳院長你都沒聽到有人這樣說嗎\n502118\t502558\t政經國內觀光\n526627\t533792\t而是說刺激內需鼓勵公務人員休假,這個都值得獎勵啦!但是你不要創那個相當標準的啦!我是覺得,你譬如說為什麼提振國內觀光、刺激內需消費,是因為公務人員本地的他的加班費,你來叫人來補助其他的產業、目錄檢視庫也好事啦!但是這個怪怪的,你知道嗎?我認為這個就很奇怪!尤其你這個8000加8000這個部分齁!\n557947\t585432\t我來問您啦,您說這叫國民旅遊卡,我看這都叫共體時間卡,怎麼這麼沒道理啊,我這麼覺得沒道理啊,好,那一般你們就只能8000、8000對不對,那我要問啊,那為什麼法官的就全部屬在一樣?你說啊法官是因為他案子很多,所以要鼓勵他趕快結案,我們就不要管他,讓他呢,我們不要強制他去消費,讓他把他贏得錢而已沒關係,那其他的公務人員呢?\n586479\t596486\t就不對,因為事件的本質,就是你不修正。政府用一天保護人的,你強制司法官以外的,其他你就要設定這種實用的規則。這樣感動人事長?院長,這樣感動?\n601731\t621750\t那我給委員報告,那個國理卡我是給他規範行政的部分,但是台灣委員你說的那個我會回去好好檢討啦。這個我是覺得這不對。喂,來來,移民署家,陳建成,你那邊有沒有...陳副署長我最後來請教你,難道你們的弟兄沒有很辛苦嗎?\n624636\t625717\t因為我們要尊重\n642355\t657080\t其實一般來說我們現在的同仁也會利用這個國民旅遊卡帶著家人去旅遊這個事實上也都是這樣在消費我告訴你,我是在替你們講話這條叫做本地的公務人員特殊的啦那本地的公務人員會啦那錢就本地要補給別人啦那蓋不住要人收回來現在又喊這些人要怎麼贏要喊這些人贏不就公務人員全部都比照辦理\n671505\t671625\t公務人員\n686943\t701015\t我再強調一次喔年金改革是一件事喔那個真的是要世世代代喔但是為公務人員的保障他的福利那又另外一件事喔好不好相同的東西我們不要做那種沒有正當合理的理由不要做這種差別待遇好不好好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝\n","txt":"委員質詢。謝謝。謝謝主席。有請我們蘇俊隆人事長。有請人事長。還有請我們公務人力發展學院我們的陳明忠陳院長。委員長。\n市長還有我們陳院長我想大家有去注意到這幾年來台灣確實是面臨到越來越少人願意報考公務人員這樣的一個狀況從考選部的統計資料其實也可以發現看這個資料就是說從民國98年高考報考人數6萬人\n6萬。101年報考人數巔峰到7萬多,但是從此以後人數一直下降,到112年剩下3萬多,3萬多報考,我這補考給你們看。那普考也同樣一樣,下滑的一個趨勢,那你還碰到有雙報考的事情,那101年報考人數9萬,你如果有雙報考,那人又更多了,之後年年下降,到了去年3萬多人報考。\n那你到初等考試的情況那更慘從民國98年9萬多到去年剩下1萬多人14當內的減70高趴\n人事長還有那個陳院長那你從考試院送到本院的報告裡面也可以發現2022年公務人員離職率一般三千個比2021年的一萬九百九十人增加了22.8%其中退休人數跟辭職人數都有明顯的一個漲幅其實人事長還有陳院長公務人員越來越少人報考這不是只有台灣\n你看看日本也一樣日本今年春天報考人數1.4萬這個也是日本史上第二低過去10年工人報考他也減到30%所以日本的人事院\n他們計劃向政府提議,調整公務人員勤務的時候,除了彈性工資以外,無論什麼原因都可以選擇週休3天。日本現在也沒有補,所以這間日本人現在這樣在屬客。日本選擇這麼做,他就是希望說,透過彈性的一個工資改善日本工資工時過長過老這樣的一個問題,那我們台灣公務人員會面臨到什麼樣的問題呢?\n在十幾年前我看那個PPT那個論壇上公務人員考試版都是高度的熱門的一個版大家都會去互通有無但是只要提到現在說講公務人員大家會說不要去啦都會用勸退啦那綜合了對於考這個考公務人員的缺點以外最多人認為根本的原因是什麼事你知道嗎\n報考成本過高,選稅不夠高、福利不夠多當然有一部分你說年金改革的餘率已經減減減減一定有嘛那從報考成本來看的話我請兩位來仔細的看一下就是說多數的公務人員其實喔差不多都有保釋的經驗啦市場上也有各式各樣的補習班的任君挑選啦市面上的補習班看來不管是你說面授啊還是去寒授啊那上屆行政職都要試班啦\n高一點的話甚至要到8萬啦 這個還只是補習的一個金額喔如果說是一個全職的考生來看的話 還有生活費的問題啊 還要多管啊所以同樣啊 你去根據我們整個考選部的一個統計啊 以高考為例啊 平均要考幾次 人事長你知道嗎\n二點七次。二點七次。也就是說三當那課會對啦。這段時間發揮的金錢的成本、時間的成本都應得到報考的重要因素。所以考生當然現在審判也很困難,沒有符合那個成本的一個效益啊。有人乾脆想說我就另抹出路啦。這其實就是一個惡性上的一個循環啦。我們一直在討論公務人員的緣有的一個問題啊。\n但如果報名的人越來越少最後下一個世代是不是要面臨國家招不到優秀工人的一個危機啊所以這個問題我請教人事長你基本上你的看法是怎麼樣事實上因應少子化的這個部分事實上我們現在在做的就是說我沒想到這是少子化\n我覺得那些都很多的複合式因素在裡面啊。就像昨天委員說的那個台股的問題還是他要進到這個場域來投資成本的問題,這些都是原因。所以我們現在努力的就是如何去把公務人員的待遇拉上來,因為台股是很小的嘛。\n民進黨執政以後我們對臨近改革這樣的一個推動\n其實跟公務人員的一個保障啊你說他沒關係公務人員他也聽不下去但短期到認為那是兩件事啊我們一直在講說世世代代領得到長長久久可以領到老那個就是其實各個政黨在執政的時候都認為年金不改革他真的是會破產但是公務人員的一個保障我這個另外一件事喔\n公務人員本來他的福利他的身份你本來就是該去保障他那同樣對年金改革的一個履歷我本席也看到國民黨委員提案說要停止地檢所得替代率來停止調整公教的年金本席倒是認為說這個是不顧風險的一個大走回頭路\n改革本來就是不太容易大家去看看希臘的一個國債那麼多國家的一個支持也提出了相關的年金的一個改革以現在來看的話以各國的一個退休年金的勤領年齡所跟所得替代率來看你台灣到2029年開始所得替代率我們還是62.5\n就世界潮流來看,台灣是從65歲、低高、低低高、低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、\n我從數據資料來看報考人數降低大概102年就開始往下降不是107年年改那是這個數字那是一個數字的數字第二個就是我要委員報告因為現在就到考率大概六七成\n入企率都維持10%嘛,這一些是一個長期的,所以我們現在公務人力的需求的這一種,你有去倒考慮,剛好每一年大概四五千人,需求大概四千嘛,客流大概五千,大概可以cover我們的政府整體的人力需求,目前的情況是這樣。\n我要請教我們公務人、人力發展學院的陳院長就是說,你們感冒都沒人給你們歡迎,談到公務人員的福利保障,我就舉我們的國民旅遊卡來講啦。你像比如說我們常常看到、聽到的抱怨就是說,國旅卡實在是不好用啦。\n你去PTV版我相信很多人也是罵聲連連那國民旅遊卡本質上大家也很清楚是一個不休假的一個加班費那你怎麼樣去運用公務人員原本本來就是按照日薪去請領不休假的加班費特休沒有休完那隔天政府又說日薪成癮未休完了幾天來給錢我們從2000年以後政府強制用一萬六定額補助取代加班費你藉此來鼓勵休假政策要去引導其實\n也不能說不對但問題就是說你要做到會公平2017年你開始硬性規定8000元你要消費在觀光旅遊業啊國內的團旅的部分啊這也可以只是說額度沒有用完你不能累積請勿讓人收回沒什麼通陳院長你都沒聽到有人這樣說嗎\n政經國內觀光\n而是說刺激內需鼓勵公務人員休假,這個都值得獎勵啦!但是你不要創那個相當標準的啦!我是覺得,你譬如說為什麼提振國內觀光、刺激內需消費,是因為公務人員本地的他的加班費,你來叫人來補助其他的產業、目錄檢視庫也好事啦!但是這個怪怪的,你知道嗎?我認為這個就很奇怪!尤其你這個8000加8000這個部分齁!\n我來問您啦,您說這叫國民旅遊卡,我看這都叫共體時間卡,怎麼這麼沒道理啊,我這麼覺得沒道理啊,好,那一般你們就只能8000、8000對不對,那我要問啊,那為什麼法官的就全部屬在一樣?你說啊法官是因為他案子很多,所以要鼓勵他趕快結案,我們就不要管他,讓他呢,我們不要強制他去消費,讓他把他贏得錢而已沒關係,那其他的公務人員呢?\n就不對,因為事件的本質,就是你不修正。政府用一天保護人的,你強制司法官以外的,其他你就要設定這種實用的規則。這樣感動人事長?院長,這樣感動?\n那我給委員報告,那個國理卡我是給他規範行政的部分,但是台灣委員你說的那個我會回去好好檢討啦。這個我是覺得這不對。喂,來來,移民署家,陳建成,你那邊有沒有...陳副署長我最後來請教你,難道你們的弟兄沒有很辛苦嗎?\n因為我們要尊重\n其實一般來說我們現在的同仁也會利用這個國民旅遊卡帶著家人去旅遊這個事實上也都是這樣在消費我告訴你,我是在替你們講話這條叫做本地的公務人員特殊的啦那本地的公務人員會啦那錢就本地要補給別人啦那蓋不住要人收回來現在又喊這些人要怎麼贏要喊這些人贏不就公務人員全部都比照辦理\n公務人員\n我再強調一次喔年金改革是一件事喔那個真的是要世世代代喔但是為公務人員的保障他的福利那又另外一件事喔好不好相同的東西我們不要做那種沒有正當合理的理由不要做這種差別待遇好不好好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:11.874\n委員質詢。謝謝。謝謝主席。有請我們蘇俊隆人事長。有請人事長。還有請我們公務人力發展學院我們的陳明忠陳院長。委員長。\n\n00:19.878 --> 00:40.086\n市長還有我們陳院長我想大家有去注意到這幾年來台灣確實是面臨到越來越少人願意報考公務人員這樣的一個狀況從考選部的統計資料其實也可以發現看這個資料就是說從民國98年高考報考人數6萬人\n\n00:43.328 --> 01:09.658\n6萬。101年報考人數巔峰到7萬多,但是從此以後人數一直下降,到112年剩下3萬多,3萬多報考,我這補考給你們看。那普考也同樣一樣,下滑的一個趨勢,那你還碰到有雙報考的事情,那101年報考人數9萬,你如果有雙報考,那人又更多了,之後年年下降,到了去年3萬多人報考。\n\n01:10.538 --> 01:14.569\n那你到初等考試的情況那更慘從民國98年9萬多到去年剩下1萬多人14當內的減70高趴\n\n01:19.736 --> 01:46.806\n人事長還有那個陳院長那你從考試院送到本院的報告裡面也可以發現2022年公務人員離職率一般三千個比2021年的一萬九百九十人增加了22.8%其中退休人數跟辭職人數都有明顯的一個漲幅其實人事長還有陳院長公務人員越來越少人報考這不是只有台灣\n\n01:48.154 --> 02:01.423\n你看看日本也一樣日本今年春天報考人數1.4萬這個也是日本史上第二低過去10年工人報考他也減到30%所以日本的人事院\n\n02:02.762 --> 02:20.733\n他們計劃向政府提議,調整公務人員勤務的時候,除了彈性工資以外,無論什麼原因都可以選擇週休3天。日本現在也沒有補,所以這間日本人現在這樣在屬客。日本選擇這麼做,他就是希望說,透過彈性的一個工資改善日本工資工時過長過老這樣的一個問題,那我們台灣公務人員會面臨到什麼樣的問題呢?\n\n02:26.696 --> 02:46.689\n在十幾年前我看那個PPT那個論壇上公務人員考試版都是高度的熱門的一個版大家都會去互通有無但是只要提到現在說講公務人員大家會說不要去啦都會用勸退啦那綜合了對於考這個考公務人員的缺點以外最多人認為根本的原因是什麼事你知道嗎\n\n02:48.807 --> 03:17.201\n報考成本過高,選稅不夠高、福利不夠多當然有一部分你說年金改革的餘率已經減減減減一定有嘛那從報考成本來看的話我請兩位來仔細的看一下就是說多數的公務人員其實喔差不多都有保釋的經驗啦市場上也有各式各樣的補習班的任君挑選啦市面上的補習班看來不管是你說面授啊還是去寒授啊那上屆行政職都要試班啦\n\n03:17.921 --> 03:34.504\n高一點的話甚至要到8萬啦這個還只是補習的一個金額喔如果說是一個全職的考生來看的話還有生活費的問題啊還要多管啊所以同樣啊你去根據我們整個考選部的一個統計啊以高考為例啊平均要考幾次人事長你知道嗎\n\n03:36.699 --> 03:59.459\n二點七次。二點七次。也就是說三當那課會對啦。這段時間發揮的金錢的成本、時間的成本都應得到報考的重要因素。所以考生當然現在審判也很困難,沒有符合那個成本的一個效益啊。有人乾脆想說我就另抹出路啦。這其實就是一個惡性上的一個循環啦。我們一直在討論公務人員的緣有的一個問題啊。\n\n04:00.640 --> 04:19.307\n但如果報名的人越來越少最後下一個世代是不是要面臨國家招不到優秀工人的一個危機啊所以這個問題我請教人事長你基本上你的看法是怎麼樣事實上因應少子化的這個部分事實上我們現在在做的就是說我沒想到這是少子化\n\n04:21.142 --> 04:42.396\n我覺得那些都很多的複合式因素在裡面啊。就像昨天委員說的那個台股的問題還是他要進到這個場域來投資成本的問題,這些都是原因。所以我們現在努力的就是如何去把公務人員的待遇拉上來,因為台股是很小的嘛。\n\n04:42.856 --> 04:44.837\n民進黨執政以後我們對臨近改革這樣的一個推動\n\n05:11.204 --> 05:33.452\n其實跟公務人員的一個保障啊你說他沒關係公務人員他也聽不下去但短期到認為那是兩件事啊我們一直在講說世世代代領得到長長久久可以領到老那個就是其實各個政黨在執政的時候都認為年金不改革他真的是會破產但是公務人員的一個保障我這個另外一件事喔\n\n05:33.812 --> 05:50.984\n公務人員本來他的福利他的身份你本來就是該去保障他那同樣對年金改革的一個履歷我本席也看到國民黨委員提案說要停止地檢所得替代率來停止調整公教的年金本席倒是認為說這個是不顧風險的一個大走回頭路\n\n05:52.438 --> 06:09.907\n改革本來就是不太容易大家去看看希臘的一個國債那麼多國家的一個支持也提出了相關的年金的一個改革以現在來看的話以各國的一個退休年金的勤領年齡所跟所得替代率來看你台灣到2029年開始所得替代率我們還是62.5\n\n06:11.548 --> 06:30.854\n就世界潮流來看,台灣是從65歲、低高、低低高、低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、\n\n06:33.082 --> 06:48.423\n我從數據資料來看報考人數降低大概102年就開始往下降不是107年年改那是這個數字那是一個數字的數字第二個就是我要委員報告因為現在就到考率大概六七成\n\n06:49.304 --> 07:11.117\n入企率都維持10%嘛,這一些是一個長期的,所以我們現在公務人力的需求的這一種,你有去倒考慮,剛好每一年大概四五千人,需求大概四千嘛,客流大概五千,大概可以cover我們的政府整體的人力需求,目前的情況是這樣。\n\n07:12.011 --> 07:26.591\n我要請教我們公務人、人力發展學院的陳院長就是說,你們感冒都沒人給你們歡迎,談到公務人員的福利保障,我就舉我們的國民旅遊卡來講啦。你像比如說我們常常看到、聽到的抱怨就是說,國旅卡實在是不好用啦。\n\n07:27.972 --> 07:55.409\n你去PTV版我相信很多人也是罵聲連連那國民旅遊卡本質上大家也很清楚是一個不休假的一個加班費那你怎麼樣去運用公務人員原本本來就是按照日薪去請領不休假的加班費特休沒有休完那隔天政府又說日薪成癮未休完了幾天來給錢我們從2000年以後政府強制用一萬六定額補助取代加班費你藉此來鼓勵休假政策要去引導其實\n\n07:57.096 --> 08:17.131\n也不能說不對但問題就是說你要做到會公平2017年你開始硬性規定8000元你要消費在觀光旅遊業啊國內的團旅的部分啊這也可以只是說額度沒有用完你不能累積請勿讓人收回沒什麼通陳院長你都沒聽到有人這樣說嗎\n\n08:22.118 --> 08:22.558\n政經國內觀光\n\n08:46.627 --> 08:53.792\n而是說刺激內需鼓勵公務人員休假,這個都值得獎勵啦!但是你不要創那個相當標準的啦!我是覺得,你譬如說為什麼提振國內觀光、刺激內需消費,是因為公務人員本地的他的加班費,你來叫人來補助其他的產業、目錄檢視庫也好事啦!但是這個怪怪的,你知道嗎?我認為這個就很奇怪!尤其你這個8000加8000這個部分齁!\n\n09:17.947 --> 09:45.432\n我來問您啦,您說這叫國民旅遊卡,我看這都叫共體時間卡,怎麼這麼沒道理啊,我這麼覺得沒道理啊,好,那一般你們就只能8000、8000對不對,那我要問啊,那為什麼法官的就全部屬在一樣?你說啊法官是因為他案子很多,所以要鼓勵他趕快結案,我們就不要管他,讓他呢,我們不要強制他去消費,讓他把他贏得錢而已沒關係,那其他的公務人員呢?\n\n09:46.479 --> 09:56.486\n就不對,因為事件的本質,就是你不修正。政府用一天保護人的,你強制司法官以外的,其他你就要設定這種實用的規則。這樣感動人事長?院長,這樣感動?\n\n10:01.731 --> 10:21.750\n那我給委員報告,那個國理卡我是給他規範行政的部分,但是台灣委員你說的那個我會回去好好檢討啦。這個我是覺得這不對。喂,來來,移民署家,陳建成,你那邊有沒有...陳副署長我最後來請教你,難道你們的弟兄沒有很辛苦嗎?\n\n10:24.636 --> 10:25.717\n因為我們要尊重\n\n10:42.355 --> 10:57.080\n其實一般來說我們現在的同仁也會利用這個國民旅遊卡帶著家人去旅遊這個事實上也都是這樣在消費我告訴你,我是在替你們講話這條叫做本地的公務人員特殊的啦那本地的公務人員會啦那錢就本地要補給別人啦那蓋不住要人收回來現在又喊這些人要怎麼贏要喊這些人贏不就公務人員全部都比照辦理\n\n11:11.505 --> 11:11.625\n公務人員\n\n11:26.943 --> 11:41.015\n我再強調一次喔年金改革是一件事喔那個真的是要世世代代喔但是為公務人員的保障他的福利那又另外一件事喔好不好相同的東西我們不要做那種沒有正當合理的理由不要做這種差別待遇好不好好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":11.874,"text":"委員質詢。謝謝。謝謝主席。有請我們蘇俊隆人事長。有請人事長。還有請我們公務人力發展學院我們的陳明忠陳院長。委員長。"},{"start":19.878,"end":40.086,"text":"市長還有我們陳院長我想大家有去注意到這幾年來台灣確實是面臨到越來越少人願意報考公務人員這樣的一個狀況從考選部的統計資料其實也可以發現看這個資料就是說從民國98年高考報考人數6萬人"},{"start":43.328,"end":69.658,"text":"6萬。101年報考人數巔峰到7萬多,但是從此以後人數一直下降,到112年剩下3萬多,3萬多報考,我這補考給你們看。那普考也同樣一樣,下滑的一個趨勢,那你還碰到有雙報考的事情,那101年報考人數9萬,你如果有雙報考,那人又更多了,之後年年下降,到了去年3萬多人報考。"},{"start":70.538,"end":74.569,"text":"那你到初等考試的情況那更慘從民國98年9萬多到去年剩下1萬多人14當內的減70高趴"},{"start":79.736,"end":106.806,"text":"人事長還有那個陳院長那你從考試院送到本院的報告裡面也可以發現2022年公務人員離職率一般三千個比2021年的一萬九百九十人增加了22.8%其中退休人數跟辭職人數都有明顯的一個漲幅其實人事長還有陳院長公務人員越來越少人報考這不是只有台灣"},{"start":108.154,"end":121.423,"text":"你看看日本也一樣日本今年春天報考人數1.4萬這個也是日本史上第二低過去10年工人報考他也減到30%所以日本的人事院"},{"start":122.762,"end":140.733,"text":"他們計劃向政府提議,調整公務人員勤務的時候,除了彈性工資以外,無論什麼原因都可以選擇週休3天。日本現在也沒有補,所以這間日本人現在這樣在屬客。日本選擇這麼做,他就是希望說,透過彈性的一個工資改善日本工資工時過長過老這樣的一個問題,那我們台灣公務人員會面臨到什麼樣的問題呢?"},{"start":146.696,"end":166.689,"text":"在十幾年前我看那個PPT那個論壇上公務人員考試版都是高度的熱門的一個版大家都會去互通有無但是只要提到現在說講公務人員大家會說不要去啦都會用勸退啦那綜合了對於考這個考公務人員的缺點以外最多人認為根本的原因是什麼事你知道嗎"},{"start":168.807,"end":197.201,"text":"報考成本過高,選稅不夠高、福利不夠多當然有一部分你說年金改革的餘率已經減減減減一定有嘛那從報考成本來看的話我請兩位來仔細的看一下就是說多數的公務人員其實喔差不多都有保釋的經驗啦市場上也有各式各樣的補習班的任君挑選啦市面上的補習班看來不管是你說面授啊還是去寒授啊那上屆行政職都要試班啦"},{"start":197.921,"end":214.504,"text":"高一點的話甚至要到8萬啦 這個還只是補習的一個金額喔如果說是一個全職的考生來看的話 還有生活費的問題啊 還要多管啊所以同樣啊 你去根據我們整個考選部的一個統計啊 以高考為例啊 平均要考幾次 人事長你知道嗎"},{"start":216.699,"end":239.459,"text":"二點七次。二點七次。也就是說三當那課會對啦。這段時間發揮的金錢的成本、時間的成本都應得到報考的重要因素。所以考生當然現在審判也很困難,沒有符合那個成本的一個效益啊。有人乾脆想說我就另抹出路啦。這其實就是一個惡性上的一個循環啦。我們一直在討論公務人員的緣有的一個問題啊。"},{"start":240.64,"end":259.307,"text":"但如果報名的人越來越少最後下一個世代是不是要面臨國家招不到優秀工人的一個危機啊所以這個問題我請教人事長你基本上你的看法是怎麼樣事實上因應少子化的這個部分事實上我們現在在做的就是說我沒想到這是少子化"},{"start":261.142,"end":282.396,"text":"我覺得那些都很多的複合式因素在裡面啊。就像昨天委員說的那個台股的問題還是他要進到這個場域來投資成本的問題,這些都是原因。所以我們現在努力的就是如何去把公務人員的待遇拉上來,因為台股是很小的嘛。"},{"start":282.856,"end":284.837,"text":"民進黨執政以後我們對臨近改革這樣的一個推動"},{"start":311.204,"end":333.452,"text":"其實跟公務人員的一個保障啊你說他沒關係公務人員他也聽不下去但短期到認為那是兩件事啊我們一直在講說世世代代領得到長長久久可以領到老那個就是其實各個政黨在執政的時候都認為年金不改革他真的是會破產但是公務人員的一個保障我這個另外一件事喔"},{"start":333.812,"end":350.984,"text":"公務人員本來他的福利他的身份你本來就是該去保障他那同樣對年金改革的一個履歷我本席也看到國民黨委員提案說要停止地檢所得替代率來停止調整公教的年金本席倒是認為說這個是不顧風險的一個大走回頭路"},{"start":352.438,"end":369.907,"text":"改革本來就是不太容易大家去看看希臘的一個國債那麼多國家的一個支持也提出了相關的年金的一個改革以現在來看的話以各國的一個退休年金的勤領年齡所跟所得替代率來看你台灣到2029年開始所得替代率我們還是62.5"},{"start":371.548,"end":390.854,"text":"就世界潮流來看,台灣是從65歲、低高、低低高、低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、低低高、"},{"start":393.082,"end":408.423,"text":"我從數據資料來看報考人數降低大概102年就開始往下降不是107年年改那是這個數字那是一個數字的數字第二個就是我要委員報告因為現在就到考率大概六七成"},{"start":409.304,"end":431.117,"text":"入企率都維持10%嘛,這一些是一個長期的,所以我們現在公務人力的需求的這一種,你有去倒考慮,剛好每一年大概四五千人,需求大概四千嘛,客流大概五千,大概可以cover我們的政府整體的人力需求,目前的情況是這樣。"},{"start":432.011,"end":446.591,"text":"我要請教我們公務人、人力發展學院的陳院長就是說,你們感冒都沒人給你們歡迎,談到公務人員的福利保障,我就舉我們的國民旅遊卡來講啦。你像比如說我們常常看到、聽到的抱怨就是說,國旅卡實在是不好用啦。"},{"start":447.972,"end":475.409,"text":"你去PTV版我相信很多人也是罵聲連連那國民旅遊卡本質上大家也很清楚是一個不休假的一個加班費那你怎麼樣去運用公務人員原本本來就是按照日薪去請領不休假的加班費特休沒有休完那隔天政府又說日薪成癮未休完了幾天來給錢我們從2000年以後政府強制用一萬六定額補助取代加班費你藉此來鼓勵休假政策要去引導其實"},{"start":477.096,"end":497.131,"text":"也不能說不對但問題就是說你要做到會公平2017年你開始硬性規定8000元你要消費在觀光旅遊業啊國內的團旅的部分啊這也可以只是說額度沒有用完你不能累積請勿讓人收回沒什麼通陳院長你都沒聽到有人這樣說嗎"},{"start":502.118,"end":502.558,"text":"政經國內觀光"},{"start":526.627,"end":533.792,"text":"而是說刺激內需鼓勵公務人員休假,這個都值得獎勵啦!但是你不要創那個相當標準的啦!我是覺得,你譬如說為什麼提振國內觀光、刺激內需消費,是因為公務人員本地的他的加班費,你來叫人來補助其他的產業、目錄檢視庫也好事啦!但是這個怪怪的,你知道嗎?我認為這個就很奇怪!尤其你這個8000加8000這個部分齁!"},{"start":557.947,"end":585.432,"text":"我來問您啦,您說這叫國民旅遊卡,我看這都叫共體時間卡,怎麼這麼沒道理啊,我這麼覺得沒道理啊,好,那一般你們就只能8000、8000對不對,那我要問啊,那為什麼法官的就全部屬在一樣?你說啊法官是因為他案子很多,所以要鼓勵他趕快結案,我們就不要管他,讓他呢,我們不要強制他去消費,讓他把他贏得錢而已沒關係,那其他的公務人員呢?"},{"start":586.479,"end":596.486,"text":"就不對,因為事件的本質,就是你不修正。政府用一天保護人的,你強制司法官以外的,其他你就要設定這種實用的規則。這樣感動人事長?院長,這樣感動?"},{"start":601.731,"end":621.75,"text":"那我給委員報告,那個國理卡我是給他規範行政的部分,但是台灣委員你說的那個我會回去好好檢討啦。這個我是覺得這不對。喂,來來,移民署家,陳建成,你那邊有沒有...陳副署長我最後來請教你,難道你們的弟兄沒有很辛苦嗎?"},{"start":624.636,"end":625.717,"text":"因為我們要尊重"},{"start":642.355,"end":657.08,"text":"其實一般來說我們現在的同仁也會利用這個國民旅遊卡帶著家人去旅遊這個事實上也都是這樣在消費我告訴你,我是在替你們講話這條叫做本地的公務人員特殊的啦那本地的公務人員會啦那錢就本地要補給別人啦那蓋不住要人收回來現在又喊這些人要怎麼贏要喊這些人贏不就公務人員全部都比照辦理"},{"start":671.505,"end":671.625,"text":"公務人員"},{"start":686.943,"end":701.015,"text":"我再強調一次喔年金改革是一件事喔那個真的是要世世代代喔但是為公務人員的保障他的福利那又另外一件事喔好不好相同的東西我們不要做那種沒有正當合理的理由不要做這種差別待遇好不好好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝"}]}}}}