{"id":150485,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150485","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5a493326136fdfb7f52100ef94a0b7c33f8ba9b0039caa7a6f4b7e6a97e5cb2d05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:03:32 - 11:16:14","影片長度":"00:12:42","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算(公務預算)解凍案8案。(如未接獲議事處來函，則不予處理或審查)【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-5"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":762,"end_time":"2024-03-27T11:16:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T11:03:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":606,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（11時3分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["史部長哲：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，很多人問過這一題，但是對於剛剛部長有一句回答，我真的要先給予肯定！部長剛剛在回答吳沛憶委員的時候，你說文化部過去一年，應該是過去十年以來，過去一年最支持圖書出版產業。"],["史部長哲：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：這件事情我絕對認同，而且我要感謝部長對相關出版產業的支持。","我就快速講，相信部長都知道這件事，文化部也作了回應。我自己從倒過一家書店的經驗，我真的必須要說……召委都笑了，倒過一家書店。獨立書店訪視團當時成立的初衷是這個，我相信部長您應該也回去研究過，所以我認為整件事情應該回頭看。當時的初衷如果是這個，這位委員他的發言或是他的論述，當然他後續也作了道歉。可是我自己倒覺得，不如我們回過頭來看一看，部長您上任之後，做了一個非常有創意的事情，你把過去單點的獨立書店補助，創造了一個書市集，我相信部長您自己應該也參加過不少場嘛。"],["史部長哲：對，創新書市。"],["陳委員培瑜：確實真的到目前為止，非常多書市集，因為我也幾乎都有去，大家評價真的都很好，我真的再一次給部長肯認，也感謝部長。因為這樣的創舉，讓書市、讓出版產業、讓獨立書店有更多的場域、更多的機會被看見。","不如我們回過頭來檢討，所有在文化部轄下的獨立書店相關補助計畫，我們看到有單點的，有書市集的，有給獨立書店文化協會的，還有給友善書業合作社的，還有很多……，不勝枚舉。過去十年來，確實國家花了很多資源在這個部分，但是我真的必須要持平而論，部長，你覺得有沒有機會剛好在這個時間點，全盤來檢視相關的補助政策，以及國家往這個方向推動的要點？部長，你自己覺得呢？我就不再糾結在那位訪視員的部分。"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝委員的肯定跟鼓勵，我也同意委員的說法，事實上我們可以隨時來進行滾動式的檢討，但是這個檢討不要變成是因為這位訪視員。"],["陳委員培瑜：沒錯！沒錯！所以我說它會是多面向的，不管是因為補助還有國家政策。因為我覺得那位訪視員確實點出了另外一個面向，一般人就是說我沒有要買書，我就是要去圖書館借書。我們當然也要尊重每一個人本來的選擇，但是我覺得回應到大家認為國家公共資源到底應該用在什麼地方，應該滾動檢討。還有，出版人會問，國家有沒有自己的出版政策的想像？一個是補助，一個是政策的想像，後續拜託文化部積極的研究，可以嗎？"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：我可以押一個時間嗎，部長？"],["史部長哲：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：因為是大事情啦！"],["史部長哲：這整個政策的檢討，我認為至少應該要花三個月的時間。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那我們就押三個月。"],["史部長哲：我也必須說，獨立書店、實體書店經營都很辛苦，我認為任何政策的改變，可能要比較和緩。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["史部長哲：不要說我們理想上政策的改變，但是實質上、現實上大家光因應這個政策就很辛苦了。"],["陳委員培瑜：當然，是。那我們就多花一些時間。"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：不管是要召開專家學者會議，或第一線業者，甚至是跟出版相關的人員，我們會持續追蹤。"],["史部長哲：我們再請委員幫忙，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝部長。第二，關於公共出借權的部分，我相信部長也很清楚。我們看到這兩天也在網路上討論，不過這個沒有燒出同溫層，我跟部長分享。我把發文的人名字刪掉了，他是一個非常有名的作家，如果你想知道，我私下再跟部長說。他說他填了很多資料，最後拿到的是可以買水煎包的錢，結果還有網友在下面笑他，說如果你買的是韓院長的水煎包，連一顆都買不到！部長，你一定知道這個情形。"],["史部長哲：這是試辦啦！"],["陳委員培瑜：是試辦。確實很多人說這是文化部跟教育部合作，是很重要的德政。我們再往下看，2021年中央社數位專題有提到，第一年只發了40萬元，當時文化部也作了回應。我們來看一下，遠流出了非常多書，他們說估算時數可能花了10到20個工作天，可以拿到4,000元；親子天下有非常多童書，非常多家長喜歡的教養書，他們說四個人連續工作一個禮拜可以拿到8,000元。好，我就不再唸了，當時文化部有回應，教育部也有回應。","快速地說，我們知道4月教育部將要提相關成效報告給文化部，做後續的政策參考，我想要在這個公開質詢場合問部長，您目前對於公共出借權的看法是什麼？就我們所知道，目前只有試辦兩所，而且相關的行政流程非常冗長。可是我必須要回到前一個題目扣起來看，部長您上任之後，推動另外一個很重要的事情，是電子書無限次計次借閱的補助，這個補助有9塊錢是落到平台上，3塊錢給出版社，可是中間我們看不到創作者的角色……"],["史部長哲：3塊錢給平台，9塊錢到出版社。"],["陳委員培瑜：Sorry，講反了，3塊錢給平台，9塊錢給出版社，可是這中間看不到創作者的角色，回到公共出借權來看，它確實是比較照顧創作者，尤其是臺灣自己的創作者。部長，其實這件事情在國外已經推行非常非常多年了，文化部目前的立場是什麼？還是真的只能等到教育部來的報告才能做決定？之前只有2所試辦，我覺得能夠表達出來的意見可能也不是這麼全面。"],["史部長哲：謝謝委員。首先這是一個試辦，所以剛剛講的金額等等這些問題，因為是試辦，所以規模很小，試辦的主體是在教育部的圖書館，目前依照圖書館法，主管機關還是教育部。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，出版品的事業主管機關是文化部嘛！"],["史部長哲：對，文化部主管出版，圖書館是教育部，現在出版產業這麼窘困的狀況下，圖書館這個措施確實會對出版產業造成影響，所以我們才會介入電子借閱，電子借閱，我們對的是出版社，不是圖書館。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，因為我們現在也沒有一個機制去問出版社，就以我認識的臺灣最紅的繪本畫家賴馬的書，他在圖書館被借出去的，不管是電子書或是紙本書，只有紙本書在這兩所試辦地的公共出借權會回到他身上，我都還沒有去問賴馬他可以買幾顆水煎包，至於電子書的部分，到底他可以拿到多少？文化部目前應該還沒有跟出版社討論嘛？"],["史部長哲：電子書的部分，錢是回到出版社，出版社再跟創作者拆帳。"],["陳委員培瑜：對。"],["史部長哲：即使是實體書的公共借閱權，借閱權的資金也是回到出版社，出版社再跟作者拆帳，所以它們的方式是一樣的。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是大家的直觀會認為公共出借權的資金雖然還是回到出版社，可是更多是因為作者會很清楚知道我被分到多少錢。剛剛那個人說是買水煎包的錢，也實在是，我都覺得有點諷刺，所以我真心的想要問部長，在您任內，您覺得有沒有機會再往下延伸討論公共出借權的部分？"],["史部長哲：我跟委員誠實的報告，公共借閱權如果要落實在實體書，確實要從圖書館法去修法。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["史部長哲：如果不修法的話，依照目前採購法的財務採購，確實沒有辦法在我買了一本書以後，每一次出借這本書還要再付錢，這點確實是要修法。這個修法事實上……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，太好了，我其實就是在等部長這個回答，確實需要修法。"],["史部長哲：圖書館法確實要修法，而且這是一個很大幅度的改變，我們國人的觀念能不能夠接受等等，都需要長期的溝通。"],["陳委員培瑜：4月教育部會提出相關報告，我們是不是可以期待文化部跟教育部快速召開跨部會的會議，針對這個命題，不管是因為修法，還是收集民間的意見，包含讀者的意見、專家學者的意見、出版業者的意見、作者的意見，在三個月內做出相關報告？是在教育部4月的報告出來後，往後押三個月，可以嗎？"],["史部長哲：可以。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝部長。","接下來是關於產業調查的部分，不過我今天沒有只針對出版。我們可以看到根據文化部的公告，出版產業相關報告，在2022年流行音樂、廣播、遊戲、電競、電視、電影、動畫都有相關的報告，可是我們也看到很多產業新聞。有報告的好處是什麼，我相信部長你一定非常清楚，對嗎？我們可以完整瞭解這個產業，當國家要下補助資源，有黑潮計畫或相關補助政策的時候，我們比較知道錢要花在什麼樣對的地方，我相信部長是認同。可是我們來看一下，傳統表演藝術調查最近一次是2017年，攝影藝術也是2017年，工藝產業2015年，表演藝術2014年。部長，你覺得之所以沒有更新的原因是為什麼？"],["史部長哲：跟委員報告，表演藝術的報告是在文策院的內容產業報告中，所以我想最新的不會是2014年。但是傳統表演藝術、攝影藝術跟工藝產業不在文策院內容產業的調查範圍內，所以有可能是比較舊的年份，必須回歸到各自的主管機關來進行。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那我們來想想看，根據文化基本法第二十七條，各級政府應對人民文化權利現況作相關研究、調查、統計，文化部為了辦理文化研究、調查、統計所需的必要資料，得請求有關機關提供相關資料，所以我們還是要把這件事情追回到文化部身上。","我們想要快速地請文化部，是不是可以研議相關的產業調查，不管是落在文策院相關產業報告，或是剛剛部長您說的，它跟相關部會有關。是不是可以請文化部作為主管機關來啟動這個部分？"],["史部長哲：我想我會提醒我們各權管主管，趕快來進行調查。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，相關的分工跟職責，是不是可以在兩個月內給我們相關報告？"],["史部長哲：是，但是我必須要提醒委員，不一定都是產業報告。"],["陳委員培瑜：我知道、我知道。"],["史部長哲：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：沒錯、沒錯。謝謝部長。","還有一點點時間，這個人間國寶的授證真的很急，跟我現在一樣，時間很急。部長上任後，去年11月24日去頒獎，本來當天有3名保存者，分別是「土水修造技術」李清海先生、蘇清良先生，還有「剪黏泥塑技術」徐明河先生，可是當天只來了一位，因為另外二位長者已經過世了。部長您在當天也說，文化資產就是跟時間賽跑。","我們來看目前文化部最大的困境。我們很認真的收集資料後發現，近三年人間國寶在作業流程上出了什麼問題，一個是被提報的長者年紀都過大，平均大概都是八十幾歲，其中70歲都算年輕。根據文化部給我們的資料來看，近三年國寶藝師的平均年齡，110年的時候是73歲，111年的時候是82歲，112年的時候是84歲。","部長，聽到這個年紀，我們彷彿都覺得德高望重的長者才能被提名為人間國寶，可是部長你知道人間國寶被提名後，他要開傳習工作坊，對嗎？他要收藝生。如果一個長者年紀已經很大了，有沒有足夠的力氣、有沒有足夠的體力承載教學的任務？","我們認為如果大家很喜歡到日本買所謂的達人、匠人的手工藝品，臺灣其實也有這些東西，可是我們在人間國寶的提報上出了很大的問題，可能大家過去傳統的觀念認為要年紀很大才能叫做國寶。我真的必須要跟部長說，我覺得我們應該要來翻新這個觀念，部長您上任之後有非常多的作為，我覺得都很年輕，也很創新，也想要跟年輕世代對話，其實也有很多年輕人想要跟人間國寶學習，可是相關這些問題非常困難。不管是文資局從地方政府收到資料，可能是地方政府怠惰，也可能是文資局覺得他們沒有主動提報的機會或可能。或者是我們看到有更多原住民的技師，原住民平均年齡其實已經比非原住民的族群還要來的短，可是提報年紀又這麼大。可不可以請文化部快速訂定相關計畫，要求地方至少每三年以60歲為基準，進行普查，這個部分有沒有機會？"],["史部長哲：因為時間的關係，我很快速的回答委員。去年在頒獎的時候，我就已經跟文資局講了，不要等人都不在了，才來頒這個獎。"],["陳委員培瑜：這真的很見笑啦，我相信部長也覺得很可惜嘛。"],["史部長哲：很難過啦！我想請文資局今年開始就趕快調整相關的作為。"],["陳委員培瑜：我想信文資局一定得花很多力氣跟地方政府溝通，不管是因為他們不想提，或是覺得普查很累，或是覺得這個不值得提。我覺得由文資局主動發動很多的專家學者討論會議，或是第一線的工作人員，或者是問過相關的傳習藝生或是傳習老師……"],["史部長哲：跟委員報告，我們再來想辦法，好不好？"],["陳委員培瑜：好！想辦法是……，所以……？"],["史部長哲：我們今年會調整。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們再來開會，好不好？"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員，再來請張雅琳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","陳秀寳","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","羅廷瑋","葉元之","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra 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：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ：解凍案8案\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 52.62, \"end\": 52.8, \"score\": 0.617}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 52.8, \"end\": 52.82, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 52.82, \"end\": 53.06, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 53.06, \"end\": 53.18, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 53.18, \"end\": 53.2, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 53.2, \"end\": 53.3, \"score\": 0.583}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 53.3, \"end\": 53.32, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 53.32, \"end\": 53.34, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 53.34, \"end\": 53.42, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 53.42, \"end\": 53.44, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 53.44, \"end\": 53.461, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"：\"}, 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{\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 151.088, \"end\": 151.108, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 151.108, \"end\": 151.188, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 151.188, \"end\": 151.208, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 151.208, \"end\": 151.228, \"score\": 0.007}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 151.228, \"end\": 151.248, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 151.248, \"end\": 151.328, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 151.328, \"end\": 151.348, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 151.348, \"end\": 151.368, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 151.368, \"end\": 151.408, \"score\": 0.461}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 151.408, \"end\": 151.548, \"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 151.548, \"end\": 151.648, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 151.648, \"end\": 151.688, \"score\": 0.064}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 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\"但是因為我們沒有現在也沒有一個機制去跟出版社問就以我認識的台灣最紅的繪本畫家賴瑪的書他在圖書館被借出去的東西那不管是電子書或者是紙本書只有紙本書在公共出借權兩所會回到他身上我都還沒有去問賴瑪他可以買幾顆水煎包那可是電子書的部分他到底他可以拿到多少文化部目前應該也沒有跟出版社討論嘛電子書的部分錢是回到出版社出版社在跟創作者之間\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 360.342, \"end\": 360.482, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 360.482, \"end\": 360.602, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 360.602, \"end\": 360.822, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 360.822, \"end\": 360.923, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 360.923, \"end\": 361.063, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 361.063, \"end\": 361.823, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 361.823, \"end\": 362.023, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 362.023, \"end\": 362.143, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 362.143, \"end\": 362.264, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 362.264, \"end\": 362.484, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": 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\"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 388.865, \"end\": 388.885, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 388.885, \"end\": 388.905, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 388.905, \"end\": 389.125, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 389.125, \"end\": 389.245, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 389.245, \"end\": 389.385, \"score\": 0.532}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 389.385, \"end\": 389.525, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 389.525, \"end\": 389.906, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 389.906, \"end\": 390.146, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 390.146, \"end\": 390.206, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 390.206, \"end\": 390.226, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,659 --> 00:00:31,961\n好,謝謝主席,那有請部長好,有請部長委員好部長很多人問過這一題但是對於剛剛部長有一句回答我真的要先給予肯定部長您剛剛在回答吳佩瑜委員的時候你說文化部過去一年應該是過去十年以來過去一年是最支持圖書出版產業這件事情我絕對認同而且我要感謝部長對相關出版產業的支持好\n\n2\n00:00:32,822 --> 00:00:41,150\n我就快速講了這個事情我相信部長就知道文化部也做了回應可是我自己從導過一家書店的經驗我真的必須要說如果回過來看稍微都笑了這樣導過一家書店獨立書店當時的訪視團的成立初衷是這個我相信部長你應該也回去研究過所以我認為整件事情應該回頭看\n\n3\n00:00:52,620 --> 00:00:55,061\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算：解凍案8案\n\n4\n00:01:11,650 --> 00:01:12,111\n二十年來參加過不少場：陳培瑜\n\n5\n00:01:29,551 --> 00:01:52,420\n所以不如我們回過頭來檢討所有在文化部轄下的獨立書店相關補助計畫我們看到有單點的有書士級的還有給獨立書店文化協會的還有給友善書業合作社的還有點點點點點點不勝美舉過去10年來確實國家花了很多資源在這個部分但是我真的必須要持平而論部長你覺得有沒有時間有沒有機會剛好在這個時間點全盤來檢視相關的補助政策跟國家往這個方向推動的要點\n\n6\n00:01:58,863 --> 00:02:00,766\n部長你自己覺得我就不再糾結在那個訪試員這個部分好不好\n\n7\n00:02:03,842 --> 00:02:15,165\n好謝謝委員的肯定跟鼓勵我也同意委員的說法事實上我們可以隨時來進行滾動式的檢討但是不要變成這個檢討是因為這位訪視員沒錯沒錯所以我說他會是多面向的嘛不管是因為補助還有國家政策因為我覺得那位訪視員他確實點出了另外一個面向就是一般人就說我就是沒有要買書我就是要去圖書館借書我們當然也要尊重本來每一個人的選擇但是\n\n8\n00:02:30,208 --> 00:02:30,928\n二、國際公共資源應在何處使用?\n\n9\n00:02:30,928 --> 00:02:31,728\n三、出版人會問國家有沒有出版政策的想像?\n\n10\n00:02:48,009 --> 00:03:04,363\n您覺得?因為是大事情啦我認為應該至少要花3個月的時間好那我們就3個月我也必須說我們獨立書店大家實體書店經營都很辛苦啦那我認為任何政策的改變可能要比較和緩\n\n11\n00:03:05,023 --> 00:03:05,083\n請委員幫忙\n\n12\n00:03:20,832 --> 00:03:45,230\n謝謝部長第二個關於公共出借權這個部分我相信部長也很清楚那我們來看到這兩天也是在網路上不過這個沒有燒出同溫層不過我跟部長分享一下我把這個發文的人名字刪掉了他是一個非常有名的作家如果你想知道部長我私下的跟你說他說他填了很多資料他最後可以拿到的錢是可以買水煎包的錢結果還有網友在下面笑他說如果你買的是韓院長的水煎包你連一顆都買不到這樣部長你一定\n\n13\n00:03:48,673 --> 00:03:49,873\n四人連續工作一個禮拜可以拿到八千塊\n\n14\n00:04:17,643 --> 00:04:24,909\n我就不再念了那文化部當時也有回應教育部也有回應快速的說因為這件事情呢我們知道4月教育部將要提相關成效報告給文化部做後續的政策參考那我想要在這個公開質詢場合問一下部長您目前對於公共出借權您的看法是什麼因為目前我們所知道之前只有事辦兩所而且相關的行政流程非常冗長可是我自己必須要回到\n\n15\n00:04:42,742 --> 00:04:42,963\n三塊錢給平台九塊錢到出版社\n\n16\n00:05:00,606 --> 00:05:25,293\n三塊錢給平台,九塊錢給出版社可是我們中間看不到創作者的角色那如果回到公共出借權來看他確實是比較照顧所謂創作者尤其是台灣自己的創作者那部長因為這件事情其實在國外已經推行非常非常非常多年了那文化部目前的立場是什麼還是真的只能等到教育部來的報告才能做決定因為之前只有兩所事辦我覺得能夠表達出來的意見可能也不是這麼全面\n\n17\n00:05:26,084 --> 00:05:27,165\n主管機關還是教育部\n\n18\n00:05:43,567 --> 00:05:59,942\n主管出版圖書是交易部現在在這個出版產業這麼窘困的狀況底下這個圖書館的措施確實會對出版產業造成影響所以說我們才會介入了電子借閱那我們電子借閱我們對的是出版社我們對的不是圖書館\n\n19\n00:06:00,342 --> 00:06:27,864\n但是因為我們沒有現在也沒有一個機制去跟出版社問就以我認識的台灣最紅的繪本畫家賴瑪的書他在圖書館被借出去的東西那不管是電子書或者是紙本書只有紙本書在公共出借權兩所會回到他身上我都還沒有去問賴瑪他可以買幾顆水煎包那可是電子書的部分他到底他可以拿到多少文化部目前應該也沒有跟出版社討論嘛電子書的部分錢是回到出版社出版社在跟創作者之間\n\n20\n00:06:28,865 --> 00:06:32,247\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．\n\n21\n00:06:58,885 --> 00:07:16,154\n我跟委員陳時的報告公務借業權如果要落實在實體書確實我們要從圖書館法去修法是如果不修法的話依照我們目前採購法的財務採購他確實是沒有辦法說我買了一本書以後這本書出借我還要每出借一次再付錢是\n\n22\n00:07:17,274 --> 00:07:20,558\n四月教育部會出相關報告我們是不是可以期待文化部跟教育部快速召開跨部會的會議\n\n23\n00:07:36,255 --> 00:07:36,596\n三月內作出相關報告\n\n24\n00:07:52,771 --> 00:07:53,912\n產業調查公告2022流行音樂廣播遊戲電競電視電影動畫都有相關的報告可是我們其實右邊看到是很多產業的新聞\n\n25\n00:08:10,405 --> 00:08:30,354\n有報告的好處是什麼我相信部長你一定非常清楚對嗎我們可以完整對這個產業的了解所以當國家要下補助資源有黑潮這樣的計畫或者是有相關補助政策的時候我們比較知道錢要花在什麼樣對的地方我相信部長是認同可是我們來看一下傳統表演藝術最近一次是2017攝影藝術也是2017工藝產業2015表演藝術2014部長你覺得之所以沒有更新的原因是為什麼\n\n26\n00:08:38,498 --> 00:09:00,057\n跟委員報告我想表演藝術他是在我們文策院的這個這個內容產業報告當中是有所以他不會最新的是2014但是呢傳統表演藝術攝影藝術跟工藝產業他不在這個文策院的這個內容產業的調查所以他有可能是比較舊的年份他必須回歸到他各自的主管機關來進行\n\n27\n00:09:01,218 --> 00:09:05,222\n文化部為了辦理文化研究調查統計所需的必要資料得請求有關機關提供相關資料所以我們還是要把這件事情追回到文化部身上\n\n28\n00:09:19,575 --> 00:09:19,976\n請文化部提醒各主管\n\n29\n00:09:35,709 --> 00:09:36,730\n人間國寶之前部長您上任在11月24號去頒獎的時候\n\n30\n00:09:55,271 --> 00:10:23,864\n本來當天有三名的保存者分別是土水修造技術李清海先生蘇清良先生還有減年泥塑技術徐明和先生可當天只來了一位因為另外兩位長者已經過世了部長您在當天也說文化資產就是跟時間賽跑我們來看一下目前文化部最大的困境我們很認真的收集了資料發現近三年人間國保在作業流程上出了什麼問題一個是被提報的長者年紀都過大都平均大概都是八十幾歲其中\n\n31\n00:10:24,784 --> 00:10:38,922\n七十歲都算年輕根據文化部給我們的資料來看近三年的國保議事的平均年齡一百一十年的時候是七十三歲一一一年的時候是八十二歲一一二年的時候是八十四歲\n\n32\n00:10:40,003 --> 00:10:43,784\n部長聽到這個年紀我們彷彿都覺得得高望重長者才能夠被提為人間國寶可是部長你知道人間國寶提完之後他要開傳習工作坊對嗎他要收益生那如果一個年紀長者已經很大了他有沒有足夠的力氣有沒有足夠的體力去承載教學的任務我們認為如果大家很喜歡到日本買所謂的達人這些匠人的手工藝品\n\n33\n00:11:06,112 --> 00:11:09,935\n台灣其實也有這些東西可是我們在人間國寶提報上其實出了很大的問題可能大家過去傳統的觀念認為要年紀很大才能叫做國寶我這裡真的必須要跟部長說我覺得我們應該要來翻新這個觀念因為部長確實您在上任之後非常多的作為我覺得都很年輕也很創新也想要跟年輕世代對話可是人間國寶其實也有很多年輕人想要去學習可是相關這些問題我們覺得非常困難\n\n34\n00:11:30,669 --> 00:11:53,487\n不管是文資局他們從地方政府收到的資料可能是地方政府的怠惰也可能是文資局他們覺得他們沒有主動提報的機會或者是可能或者是我們看到有更多原住民的祭司他們的相關平均年齡其實已經比非原住民的族群還要來得短那可是提報年紀又這麼大所以我們可不可以這邊請快速請文化部訂定相關計畫要求地方至少每3年以60歲為基準進行普查這個部分有沒有機會\n\n35\n00:11:58,070 --> 00:12:03,035\n時間關係我會很快速回答委員我想去年在頒獎的時候我就跟文字局說\n\n36\n00:12:05,014 --> 00:12:05,454\n委員報告這要怎麼審查\n\n37\n00:12:35,228 --> 00:12:35,389\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5659\t31961\t好,謝謝主席,那有請部長好,有請部長委員好部長很多人問過這一題但是對於剛剛部長有一句回答我真的要先給予肯定部長您剛剛在回答吳佩瑜委員的時候你說文化部過去一年應該是過去十年以來過去一年是最支持圖書出版產業這件事情我絕對認同而且我要感謝部長對相關出版產業的支持好\n32822\t41150\t我就快速講了這個事情我相信部長就知道文化部也做了回應可是我自己從導過一家書店的經驗我真的必須要說如果回過來看稍微都笑了這樣導過一家書店獨立書店當時的訪視團的成立初衷是這個我相信部長你應該也回去研究過所以我認為整件事情應該回頭看\n52620\t55061\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ：解凍案8案\n71650\t72111\t二十年來參加過不少場：陳培瑜\n89551\t112420\t所以不如我們回過頭來檢討所有在文化部轄下的獨立書店相關補助計畫我們看到有單點的有書士級的還有給獨立書店文化協會的還有給友善書業合作社的還有點點點點點點不勝美舉過去10年來確實國家花了很多資源在這個部分但是我真的必須要持平而論部長你覺得有沒有時間有沒有機會剛好在這個時間點全盤來檢視相關的補助政策跟國家往這個方向推動的要點\n118863\t120766\t部長你自己覺得我就不再糾結在那個訪試員這個部分好不好\n123842\t135165\t好 謝謝委員的肯定跟鼓勵我也同意委員的說法事實上我們可以隨時來進行滾動式的檢討但是不要變成這個檢討是因為這位訪視員沒錯沒錯所以我說他會是多面向的嘛不管是因為補助還有國家政策因為我覺得那位訪視員他確實點出了另外一個面向就是一般人就說我就是沒有要買書我就是要去圖書館借書我們當然也要尊重本來每一個人的選擇但是\n150208\t150928\t二、國際公共資源應在何處使用?\n150928\t151728\t三、出版人會問國家有沒有出版政策的想像?\n168009\t184363\t您覺得?因為是大事情啦我認為應該至少要花3個月的時間好 那我們就3個月我也必須說我們獨立書店大家實體書店經營都很辛苦啦那我認為任何政策的改變可能要比較和緩\n185023\t185083\t請委員幫忙\n200832\t225230\t謝謝部長第二個關於公共出借權這個部分我相信部長也很清楚那我們來看到這兩天也是在網路上不過這個沒有燒出同溫層不過我跟部長分享一下我把這個發文的人名字刪掉了他是一個非常有名的作家如果你想知道部長我私下的跟你說他說他填了很多資料他最後可以拿到的錢是可以買水煎包的錢結果還有網友在下面笑他說如果你買的是韓院長的水煎包你連一顆都買不到這樣部長你一定\n228673\t229873\t四人連續工作一個禮拜可以拿到八千塊\n257643\t264909\t我就不再念了那文化部當時也有回應教育部也有回應快速的說因為這件事情呢我們知道4月教育部將要提相關成效報告給文化部做後續的政策參考那我想要在這個公開質詢場合問一下部長您目前對於公共出借權您的看法是什麼因為目前我們所知道之前只有事辦兩所而且相關的行政流程非常冗長可是我自己必須要回到\n282742\t282963\t三塊錢給平台九塊錢到出版社\n300606\t325293\t三塊錢給平台,九塊錢給出版社可是我們中間看不到創作者的角色那如果回到公共出借權來看他確實是比較照顧所謂創作者尤其是台灣自己的創作者那部長因為這件事情其實在國外已經推行非常非常非常多年了那文化部目前的立場是什麼還是真的只能等到教育部來的報告才能做決定因為之前只有兩所事辦我覺得能夠表達出來的意見可能也不是這麼全面\n326084\t327165\t主管機關還是教育部\n343567\t359942\t主管出版 圖書是交易部現在在這個出版產業這麼窘困的狀況底下這個圖書館的措施確實會對出版產業造成影響所以說我們才會介入了電子借閱那我們電子借閱我們對的是出版社我們對的不是圖書館\n360342\t387864\t但是因為我們沒有現在也沒有一個機制去跟出版社問就以我認識的台灣最紅的繪本畫家賴瑪的書他在圖書館被借出去的東西那不管是電子書或者是紙本書只有紙本書在公共出借權兩所會回到他身上我都還沒有去問賴瑪他可以買幾顆水煎包那可是電子書的部分他到底他可以拿到多少文化部目前應該也沒有跟出版社討論嘛電子書的部分錢是回到出版社出版社在跟創作者之間\n388865\t392247\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．\n418885\t436154\t我跟委員陳時的報告公務借業權如果要落實在實體書確實我們要從圖書館法去修法是如果不修法的話依照我們目前採購法的財務採購他確實是沒有辦法說我買了一本書以後這本書出借我還要每出借一次再付錢是\n437274\t440558\t四月教育部會出相關報告我們是不是可以期待文化部跟教育部快速召開跨部會的會議\n456255\t456596\t三月內作出相關報告\n472771\t473912\t產業調查公告2022流行音樂廣播遊戲電競電視電影動畫都有相關的報告可是我們其實右邊看到是很多產業的新聞\n490405\t510354\t有報告的好處是什麼我相信部長你一定非常清楚對嗎我們可以完整對這個產業的了解所以當國家要下補助資源有黑潮這樣的計畫或者是有相關補助政策的時候我們比較知道錢要花在什麼樣對的地方我相信部長是認同可是我們來看一下傳統表演藝術最近一次是2017攝影藝術也是2017工藝產業2015表演藝術2014部長你覺得之所以沒有更新的原因是為什麼\n518498\t540057\t跟委員報告我想表演藝術他是在我們文策院的這個這個內容產業報告當中是有所以他不會最新的是2014但是呢傳統表演藝術攝影藝術跟工藝產業他不在這個文策院的這個內容產業的調查所以他有可能是比較舊的年份他必須回歸到他各自的主管機關來進行\n541218\t545222\t文化部為了辦理文化研究調查統計所需的必要資料得請求有關機關提供相關資料所以我們還是要把這件事情追回到文化部身上\n559575\t559976\t請文化部提醒各主管\n575709\t576730\t人間國寶之前部長您上任在11月24號去頒獎的時候\n595271\t623864\t本來當天有三名的保存者分別是土水修造技術李清海先生蘇清良先生還有減年泥塑技術徐明和先生可當天只來了一位因為另外兩位長者已經過世了部長您在當天也說文化資產就是跟時間賽跑我們來看一下目前文化部最大的困境我們很認真的收集了資料發現近三年人間國保在作業流程上出了什麼問題一個是被提報的長者年紀都過大都平均大概都是八十幾歲其中\n624784\t638922\t七十歲都算年輕根據文化部給我們的資料來看近三年的國保議事的平均年齡一百一十年的時候是七十三歲一一一年的時候是八十二歲一一二年的時候是八十四歲\n640003\t643784\t部長聽到這個年紀我們彷彿都覺得得高望重長者才能夠被提為人間國寶可是部長你知道人間國寶提完之後他要開傳習工作坊對嗎他要收益生那如果一個年紀長者已經很大了他有沒有足夠的力氣有沒有足夠的體力去承載教學的任務我們認為如果大家很喜歡到日本買所謂的達人這些匠人的手工藝品\n666112\t669935\t台灣其實也有這些東西可是我們在人間國寶提報上其實出了很大的問題可能大家過去傳統的觀念認為要年紀很大才能叫做國寶我這裡真的必須要跟部長說我覺得我們應該要來翻新這個觀念因為部長確實您在上任之後非常多的作為我覺得都很年輕也很創新也想要跟年輕世代對話可是人間國寶其實也有很多年輕人想要去學習可是相關這些問題我們覺得非常困難\n690669\t713487\t不管是文資局他們從地方政府收到的資料可能是地方政府的怠惰也可能是文資局他們覺得他們沒有主動提報的機會或者是可能或者是我們看到有更多原住民的祭司他們的相關平均年齡其實已經比非原住民的族群還要來得短那可是提報年紀又這麼大所以我們可不可以這邊請快速請文化部訂定相關計畫要求地方至少每3年以60歲為基準進行普查這個部分有沒有機會\n718070\t723035\t時間關係我會很快速回答委員我想去年在頒獎的時候我就跟文字局說\n725014\t725454\t委員報告 這要怎麼審查\n755228\t755389\t主席\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席,那有請部長好,有請部長委員好部長很多人問過這一題但是對於剛剛部長有一句回答我真的要先給予肯定部長您剛剛在回答吳佩瑜委員的時候你說文化部過去一年應該是過去十年以來過去一年是最支持圖書出版產業這件事情我絕對認同而且我要感謝部長對相關出版產業的支持好\n我就快速講了這個事情我相信部長就知道文化部也做了回應可是我自己從導過一家書店的經驗我真的必須要說如果回過來看稍微都笑了這樣導過一家書店獨立書店當時的訪視團的成立初衷是這個我相信部長你應該也回去研究過所以我認為整件事情應該回頭看\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ：解凍案8案\n二十年來參加過不少場：陳培瑜\n所以不如我們回過頭來檢討所有在文化部轄下的獨立書店相關補助計畫我們看到有單點的有書士級的還有給獨立書店文化協會的還有給友善書業合作社的還有點點點點點點不勝美舉過去10年來確實國家花了很多資源在這個部分但是我真的必須要持平而論部長你覺得有沒有時間有沒有機會剛好在這個時間點全盤來檢視相關的補助政策跟國家往這個方向推動的要點\n部長你自己覺得我就不再糾結在那個訪試員這個部分好不好\n好 謝謝委員的肯定跟鼓勵我也同意委員的說法事實上我們可以隨時來進行滾動式的檢討但是不要變成這個檢討是因為這位訪視員沒錯沒錯所以我說他會是多面向的嘛不管是因為補助還有國家政策因為我覺得那位訪視員他確實點出了另外一個面向就是一般人就說我就是沒有要買書我就是要去圖書館借書我們當然也要尊重本來每一個人的選擇但是\n二、國際公共資源應在何處使用?\n三、出版人會問國家有沒有出版政策的想像?\n您覺得?因為是大事情啦我認為應該至少要花3個月的時間好 那我們就3個月我也必須說我們獨立書店大家實體書店經營都很辛苦啦那我認為任何政策的改變可能要比較和緩\n請委員幫忙\n謝謝部長第二個關於公共出借權這個部分我相信部長也很清楚那我們來看到這兩天也是在網路上不過這個沒有燒出同溫層不過我跟部長分享一下我把這個發文的人名字刪掉了他是一個非常有名的作家如果你想知道部長我私下的跟你說他說他填了很多資料他最後可以拿到的錢是可以買水煎包的錢結果還有網友在下面笑他說如果你買的是韓院長的水煎包你連一顆都買不到這樣部長你一定\n四人連續工作一個禮拜可以拿到八千塊\n我就不再念了那文化部當時也有回應教育部也有回應快速的說因為這件事情呢我們知道4月教育部將要提相關成效報告給文化部做後續的政策參考那我想要在這個公開質詢場合問一下部長您目前對於公共出借權您的看法是什麼因為目前我們所知道之前只有事辦兩所而且相關的行政流程非常冗長可是我自己必須要回到\n三塊錢給平台九塊錢到出版社\n三塊錢給平台,九塊錢給出版社可是我們中間看不到創作者的角色那如果回到公共出借權來看他確實是比較照顧所謂創作者尤其是台灣自己的創作者那部長因為這件事情其實在國外已經推行非常非常非常多年了那文化部目前的立場是什麼還是真的只能等到教育部來的報告才能做決定因為之前只有兩所事辦我覺得能夠表達出來的意見可能也不是這麼全面\n主管機關還是教育部\n主管出版 圖書是交易部現在在這個出版產業這麼窘困的狀況底下這個圖書館的措施確實會對出版產業造成影響所以說我們才會介入了電子借閱那我們電子借閱我們對的是出版社我們對的不是圖書館\n但是因為我們沒有現在也沒有一個機制去跟出版社問就以我認識的台灣最紅的繪本畫家賴瑪的書他在圖書館被借出去的東西那不管是電子書或者是紙本書只有紙本書在公共出借權兩所會回到他身上我都還沒有去問賴瑪他可以買幾顆水煎包那可是電子書的部分他到底他可以拿到多少文化部目前應該也沒有跟出版社討論嘛電子書的部分錢是回到出版社出版社在跟創作者之間\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．\n我跟委員陳時的報告公務借業權如果要落實在實體書確實我們要從圖書館法去修法是如果不修法的話依照我們目前採購法的財務採購他確實是沒有辦法說我買了一本書以後這本書出借我還要每出借一次再付錢是\n四月教育部會出相關報告我們是不是可以期待文化部跟教育部快速召開跨部會的會議\n三月內作出相關報告\n產業調查公告2022流行音樂廣播遊戲電競電視電影動畫都有相關的報告可是我們其實右邊看到是很多產業的新聞\n有報告的好處是什麼我相信部長你一定非常清楚對嗎我們可以完整對這個產業的了解所以當國家要下補助資源有黑潮這樣的計畫或者是有相關補助政策的時候我們比較知道錢要花在什麼樣對的地方我相信部長是認同可是我們來看一下傳統表演藝術最近一次是2017攝影藝術也是2017工藝產業2015表演藝術2014部長你覺得之所以沒有更新的原因是為什麼\n跟委員報告我想表演藝術他是在我們文策院的這個這個內容產業報告當中是有所以他不會最新的是2014但是呢傳統表演藝術攝影藝術跟工藝產業他不在這個文策院的這個內容產業的調查所以他有可能是比較舊的年份他必須回歸到他各自的主管機關來進行\n文化部為了辦理文化研究調查統計所需的必要資料得請求有關機關提供相關資料所以我們還是要把這件事情追回到文化部身上\n請文化部提醒各主管\n人間國寶之前部長您上任在11月24號去頒獎的時候\n本來當天有三名的保存者分別是土水修造技術李清海先生蘇清良先生還有減年泥塑技術徐明和先生可當天只來了一位因為另外兩位長者已經過世了部長您在當天也說文化資產就是跟時間賽跑我們來看一下目前文化部最大的困境我們很認真的收集了資料發現近三年人間國保在作業流程上出了什麼問題一個是被提報的長者年紀都過大都平均大概都是八十幾歲其中\n七十歲都算年輕根據文化部給我們的資料來看近三年的國保議事的平均年齡一百一十年的時候是七十三歲一一一年的時候是八十二歲一一二年的時候是八十四歲\n部長聽到這個年紀我們彷彿都覺得得高望重長者才能夠被提為人間國寶可是部長你知道人間國寶提完之後他要開傳習工作坊對嗎他要收益生那如果一個年紀長者已經很大了他有沒有足夠的力氣有沒有足夠的體力去承載教學的任務我們認為如果大家很喜歡到日本買所謂的達人這些匠人的手工藝品\n台灣其實也有這些東西可是我們在人間國寶提報上其實出了很大的問題可能大家過去傳統的觀念認為要年紀很大才能叫做國寶我這裡真的必須要跟部長說我覺得我們應該要來翻新這個觀念因為部長確實您在上任之後非常多的作為我覺得都很年輕也很創新也想要跟年輕世代對話可是人間國寶其實也有很多年輕人想要去學習可是相關這些問題我們覺得非常困難\n不管是文資局他們從地方政府收到的資料可能是地方政府的怠惰也可能是文資局他們覺得他們沒有主動提報的機會或者是可能或者是我們看到有更多原住民的祭司他們的相關平均年齡其實已經比非原住民的族群還要來得短那可是提報年紀又這麼大所以我們可不可以這邊請快速請文化部訂定相關計畫要求地方至少每3年以60歲為基準進行普查這個部分有沒有機會\n時間關係我會很快速回答委員我想去年在頒獎的時候我就跟文字局說\n委員報告 這要怎麼審查\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.659 --> 00:31.961\n好,謝謝主席,那有請部長好,有請部長委員好部長很多人問過這一題但是對於剛剛部長有一句回答我真的要先給予肯定部長您剛剛在回答吳佩瑜委員的時候你說文化部過去一年應該是過去十年以來過去一年是最支持圖書出版產業這件事情我絕對認同而且我要感謝部長對相關出版產業的支持好\n\n00:32.822 --> 00:41.150\n我就快速講了這個事情我相信部長就知道文化部也做了回應可是我自己從導過一家書店的經驗我真的必須要說如果回過來看稍微都笑了這樣導過一家書店獨立書店當時的訪視團的成立初衷是這個我相信部長你應該也回去研究過所以我認為整件事情應該回頭看\n\n00:52.620 --> 00:55.061\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算：解凍案8案\n\n01:11.650 --> 01:12.111\n二十年來參加過不少場：陳培瑜\n\n01:29.551 --> 01:52.420\n所以不如我們回過頭來檢討所有在文化部轄下的獨立書店相關補助計畫我們看到有單點的有書士級的還有給獨立書店文化協會的還有給友善書業合作社的還有點點點點點點不勝美舉過去10年來確實國家花了很多資源在這個部分但是我真的必須要持平而論部長你覺得有沒有時間有沒有機會剛好在這個時間點全盤來檢視相關的補助政策跟國家往這個方向推動的要點\n\n01:58.863 --> 02:00.766\n部長你自己覺得我就不再糾結在那個訪試員這個部分好不好\n\n02:03.842 --> 02:15.165\n好謝謝委員的肯定跟鼓勵我也同意委員的說法事實上我們可以隨時來進行滾動式的檢討但是不要變成這個檢討是因為這位訪視員沒錯沒錯所以我說他會是多面向的嘛不管是因為補助還有國家政策因為我覺得那位訪視員他確實點出了另外一個面向就是一般人就說我就是沒有要買書我就是要去圖書館借書我們當然也要尊重本來每一個人的選擇但是\n\n02:30.208 --> 02:30.928\n二、國際公共資源應在何處使用?\n\n02:30.928 --> 02:31.728\n三、出版人會問國家有沒有出版政策的想像?\n\n02:48.009 --> 03:04.363\n您覺得?因為是大事情啦我認為應該至少要花3個月的時間好那我們就3個月我也必須說我們獨立書店大家實體書店經營都很辛苦啦那我認為任何政策的改變可能要比較和緩\n\n03:05.023 --> 03:05.083\n請委員幫忙\n\n03:20.832 --> 03:45.230\n謝謝部長第二個關於公共出借權這個部分我相信部長也很清楚那我們來看到這兩天也是在網路上不過這個沒有燒出同溫層不過我跟部長分享一下我把這個發文的人名字刪掉了他是一個非常有名的作家如果你想知道部長我私下的跟你說他說他填了很多資料他最後可以拿到的錢是可以買水煎包的錢結果還有網友在下面笑他說如果你買的是韓院長的水煎包你連一顆都買不到這樣部長你一定\n\n03:48.673 --> 03:49.873\n四人連續工作一個禮拜可以拿到八千塊\n\n04:17.643 --> 04:24.909\n我就不再念了那文化部當時也有回應教育部也有回應快速的說因為這件事情呢我們知道4月教育部將要提相關成效報告給文化部做後續的政策參考那我想要在這個公開質詢場合問一下部長您目前對於公共出借權您的看法是什麼因為目前我們所知道之前只有事辦兩所而且相關的行政流程非常冗長可是我自己必須要回到\n\n04:42.742 --> 04:42.963\n三塊錢給平台九塊錢到出版社\n\n05:00.606 --> 05:25.293\n三塊錢給平台,九塊錢給出版社可是我們中間看不到創作者的角色那如果回到公共出借權來看他確實是比較照顧所謂創作者尤其是台灣自己的創作者那部長因為這件事情其實在國外已經推行非常非常非常多年了那文化部目前的立場是什麼還是真的只能等到教育部來的報告才能做決定因為之前只有兩所事辦我覺得能夠表達出來的意見可能也不是這麼全面\n\n05:26.084 --> 05:27.165\n主管機關還是教育部\n\n05:43.567 --> 05:59.942\n主管出版圖書是交易部現在在這個出版產業這麼窘困的狀況底下這個圖書館的措施確實會對出版產業造成影響所以說我們才會介入了電子借閱那我們電子借閱我們對的是出版社我們對的不是圖書館\n\n06:00.342 --> 06:27.864\n但是因為我們沒有現在也沒有一個機制去跟出版社問就以我認識的台灣最紅的繪本畫家賴瑪的書他在圖書館被借出去的東西那不管是電子書或者是紙本書只有紙本書在公共出借權兩所會回到他身上我都還沒有去問賴瑪他可以買幾顆水煎包那可是電子書的部分他到底他可以拿到多少文化部目前應該也沒有跟出版社討論嘛電子書的部分錢是回到出版社出版社在跟創作者之間\n\n06:28.865 --> 06:32.247\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．\n\n06:58.885 --> 07:16.154\n我跟委員陳時的報告公務借業權如果要落實在實體書確實我們要從圖書館法去修法是如果不修法的話依照我們目前採購法的財務採購他確實是沒有辦法說我買了一本書以後這本書出借我還要每出借一次再付錢是\n\n07:17.274 --> 07:20.558\n四月教育部會出相關報告我們是不是可以期待文化部跟教育部快速召開跨部會的會議\n\n07:36.255 --> 07:36.596\n三月內作出相關報告\n\n07:52.771 --> 07:53.912\n產業調查公告2022流行音樂廣播遊戲電競電視電影動畫都有相關的報告可是我們其實右邊看到是很多產業的新聞\n\n08:10.405 --> 08:30.354\n有報告的好處是什麼我相信部長你一定非常清楚對嗎我們可以完整對這個產業的了解所以當國家要下補助資源有黑潮這樣的計畫或者是有相關補助政策的時候我們比較知道錢要花在什麼樣對的地方我相信部長是認同可是我們來看一下傳統表演藝術最近一次是2017攝影藝術也是2017工藝產業2015表演藝術2014部長你覺得之所以沒有更新的原因是為什麼\n\n08:38.498 --> 09:00.057\n跟委員報告我想表演藝術他是在我們文策院的這個這個內容產業報告當中是有所以他不會最新的是2014但是呢傳統表演藝術攝影藝術跟工藝產業他不在這個文策院的這個內容產業的調查所以他有可能是比較舊的年份他必須回歸到他各自的主管機關來進行\n\n09:01.218 --> 09:05.222\n文化部為了辦理文化研究調查統計所需的必要資料得請求有關機關提供相關資料所以我們還是要把這件事情追回到文化部身上\n\n09:19.575 --> 09:19.976\n請文化部提醒各主管\n\n09:35.709 --> 09:36.730\n人間國寶之前部長您上任在11月24號去頒獎的時候\n\n09:55.271 --> 10:23.864\n本來當天有三名的保存者分別是土水修造技術李清海先生蘇清良先生還有減年泥塑技術徐明和先生可當天只來了一位因為另外兩位長者已經過世了部長您在當天也說文化資產就是跟時間賽跑我們來看一下目前文化部最大的困境我們很認真的收集了資料發現近三年人間國保在作業流程上出了什麼問題一個是被提報的長者年紀都過大都平均大概都是八十幾歲其中\n\n10:24.784 --> 10:38.922\n七十歲都算年輕根據文化部給我們的資料來看近三年的國保議事的平均年齡一百一十年的時候是七十三歲一一一年的時候是八十二歲一一二年的時候是八十四歲\n\n10:40.003 --> 10:43.784\n部長聽到這個年紀我們彷彿都覺得得高望重長者才能夠被提為人間國寶可是部長你知道人間國寶提完之後他要開傳習工作坊對嗎他要收益生那如果一個年紀長者已經很大了他有沒有足夠的力氣有沒有足夠的體力去承載教學的任務我們認為如果大家很喜歡到日本買所謂的達人這些匠人的手工藝品\n\n11:06.112 --> 11:09.935\n台灣其實也有這些東西可是我們在人間國寶提報上其實出了很大的問題可能大家過去傳統的觀念認為要年紀很大才能叫做國寶我這裡真的必須要跟部長說我覺得我們應該要來翻新這個觀念因為部長確實您在上任之後非常多的作為我覺得都很年輕也很創新也想要跟年輕世代對話可是人間國寶其實也有很多年輕人想要去學習可是相關這些問題我們覺得非常困難\n\n11:30.669 --> 11:53.487\n不管是文資局他們從地方政府收到的資料可能是地方政府的怠惰也可能是文資局他們覺得他們沒有主動提報的機會或者是可能或者是我們看到有更多原住民的祭司他們的相關平均年齡其實已經比非原住民的族群還要來得短那可是提報年紀又這麼大所以我們可不可以這邊請快速請文化部訂定相關計畫要求地方至少每3年以60歲為基準進行普查這個部分有沒有機會\n\n11:58.070 --> 12:03.035\n時間關係我會很快速回答委員我想去年在頒獎的時候我就跟文字局說\n\n12:05.014 --> 12:05.454\n委員報告這要怎麼審查\n\n12:35.228 --> 12:35.389\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.659,"end":31.961,"text":"好,謝謝主席,那有請部長好,有請部長委員好部長很多人問過這一題但是對於剛剛部長有一句回答我真的要先給予肯定部長您剛剛在回答吳佩瑜委員的時候你說文化部過去一年應該是過去十年以來過去一年是最支持圖書出版產業這件事情我絕對認同而且我要感謝部長對相關出版產業的支持好"},{"start":32.822,"end":41.15,"text":"我就快速講了這個事情我相信部長就知道文化部也做了回應可是我自己從導過一家書店的經驗我真的必須要說如果回過來看稍微都笑了這樣導過一家書店獨立書店當時的訪視團的成立初衷是這個我相信部長你應該也回去研究過所以我認為整件事情應該回頭看"},{"start":52.62,"end":55.061,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ：解凍案8案"},{"start":71.65,"end":72.111,"text":"二十年來參加過不少場：陳培瑜"},{"start":89.551,"end":112.42,"text":"所以不如我們回過頭來檢討所有在文化部轄下的獨立書店相關補助計畫我們看到有單點的有書士級的還有給獨立書店文化協會的還有給友善書業合作社的還有點點點點點點不勝美舉過去10年來確實國家花了很多資源在這個部分但是我真的必須要持平而論部長你覺得有沒有時間有沒有機會剛好在這個時間點全盤來檢視相關的補助政策跟國家往這個方向推動的要點"},{"start":118.863,"end":120.766,"text":"部長你自己覺得我就不再糾結在那個訪試員這個部分好不好"},{"start":123.842,"end":135.165,"text":"好 謝謝委員的肯定跟鼓勵我也同意委員的說法事實上我們可以隨時來進行滾動式的檢討但是不要變成這個檢討是因為這位訪視員沒錯沒錯所以我說他會是多面向的嘛不管是因為補助還有國家政策因為我覺得那位訪視員他確實點出了另外一個面向就是一般人就說我就是沒有要買書我就是要去圖書館借書我們當然也要尊重本來每一個人的選擇但是"},{"start":150.208,"end":150.928,"text":"二、國際公共資源應在何處使用?"},{"start":150.928,"end":151.728,"text":"三、出版人會問國家有沒有出版政策的想像?"},{"start":168.009,"end":184.363,"text":"您覺得?因為是大事情啦我認為應該至少要花3個月的時間好 那我們就3個月我也必須說我們獨立書店大家實體書店經營都很辛苦啦那我認為任何政策的改變可能要比較和緩"},{"start":185.023,"end":185.083,"text":"請委員幫忙"},{"start":200.832,"end":225.23,"text":"謝謝部長第二個關於公共出借權這個部分我相信部長也很清楚那我們來看到這兩天也是在網路上不過這個沒有燒出同溫層不過我跟部長分享一下我把這個發文的人名字刪掉了他是一個非常有名的作家如果你想知道部長我私下的跟你說他說他填了很多資料他最後可以拿到的錢是可以買水煎包的錢結果還有網友在下面笑他說如果你買的是韓院長的水煎包你連一顆都買不到這樣部長你一定"},{"start":228.673,"end":229.873,"text":"四人連續工作一個禮拜可以拿到八千塊"},{"start":257.643,"end":264.909,"text":"我就不再念了那文化部當時也有回應教育部也有回應快速的說因為這件事情呢我們知道4月教育部將要提相關成效報告給文化部做後續的政策參考那我想要在這個公開質詢場合問一下部長您目前對於公共出借權您的看法是什麼因為目前我們所知道之前只有事辦兩所而且相關的行政流程非常冗長可是我自己必須要回到"},{"start":282.742,"end":282.963,"text":"三塊錢給平台九塊錢到出版社"},{"start":300.606,"end":325.293,"text":"三塊錢給平台,九塊錢給出版社可是我們中間看不到創作者的角色那如果回到公共出借權來看他確實是比較照顧所謂創作者尤其是台灣自己的創作者那部長因為這件事情其實在國外已經推行非常非常非常多年了那文化部目前的立場是什麼還是真的只能等到教育部來的報告才能做決定因為之前只有兩所事辦我覺得能夠表達出來的意見可能也不是這麼全面"},{"start":326.084,"end":327.165,"text":"主管機關還是教育部"},{"start":343.567,"end":359.942,"text":"主管出版 圖書是交易部現在在這個出版產業這麼窘困的狀況底下這個圖書館的措施確實會對出版產業造成影響所以說我們才會介入了電子借閱那我們電子借閱我們對的是出版社我們對的不是圖書館"},{"start":360.342,"end":387.864,"text":"但是因為我們沒有現在也沒有一個機制去跟出版社問就以我認識的台灣最紅的繪本畫家賴瑪的書他在圖書館被借出去的東西那不管是電子書或者是紙本書只有紙本書在公共出借權兩所會回到他身上我都還沒有去問賴瑪他可以買幾顆水煎包那可是電子書的部分他到底他可以拿到多少文化部目前應該也沒有跟出版社討論嘛電子書的部分錢是回到出版社出版社在跟創作者之間"},{"start":388.865,"end":392.247,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算 ８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況．"},{"start":418.885,"end":436.154,"text":"我跟委員陳時的報告公務借業權如果要落實在實體書確實我們要從圖書館法去修法是如果不修法的話依照我們目前採購法的財務採購他確實是沒有辦法說我買了一本書以後這本書出借我還要每出借一次再付錢是"},{"start":437.274,"end":440.558,"text":"四月教育部會出相關報告我們是不是可以期待文化部跟教育部快速召開跨部會的會議"},{"start":456.255,"end":456.596,"text":"三月內作出相關報告"},{"start":472.771,"end":473.912,"text":"產業調查公告2022流行音樂廣播遊戲電競電視電影動畫都有相關的報告可是我們其實右邊看到是很多產業的新聞"},{"start":490.405,"end":510.354,"text":"有報告的好處是什麼我相信部長你一定非常清楚對嗎我們可以完整對這個產業的了解所以當國家要下補助資源有黑潮這樣的計畫或者是有相關補助政策的時候我們比較知道錢要花在什麼樣對的地方我相信部長是認同可是我們來看一下傳統表演藝術最近一次是2017攝影藝術也是2017工藝產業2015表演藝術2014部長你覺得之所以沒有更新的原因是為什麼"},{"start":518.498,"end":540.057,"text":"跟委員報告我想表演藝術他是在我們文策院的這個這個內容產業報告當中是有所以他不會最新的是2014但是呢傳統表演藝術攝影藝術跟工藝產業他不在這個文策院的這個內容產業的調查所以他有可能是比較舊的年份他必須回歸到他各自的主管機關來進行"},{"start":541.218,"end":545.222,"text":"文化部為了辦理文化研究調查統計所需的必要資料得請求有關機關提供相關資料所以我們還是要把這件事情追回到文化部身上"},{"start":559.575,"end":559.976,"text":"請文化部提醒各主管"},{"start":575.709,"end":576.73,"text":"人間國寶之前部長您上任在11月24號去頒獎的時候"},{"start":595.271,"end":623.864,"text":"本來當天有三名的保存者分別是土水修造技術李清海先生蘇清良先生還有減年泥塑技術徐明和先生可當天只來了一位因為另外兩位長者已經過世了部長您在當天也說文化資產就是跟時間賽跑我們來看一下目前文化部最大的困境我們很認真的收集了資料發現近三年人間國保在作業流程上出了什麼問題一個是被提報的長者年紀都過大都平均大概都是八十幾歲其中"},{"start":624.784,"end":638.922,"text":"七十歲都算年輕根據文化部給我們的資料來看近三年的國保議事的平均年齡一百一十年的時候是七十三歲一一一年的時候是八十二歲一一二年的時候是八十四歲"},{"start":640.003,"end":643.784,"text":"部長聽到這個年紀我們彷彿都覺得得高望重長者才能夠被提為人間國寶可是部長你知道人間國寶提完之後他要開傳習工作坊對嗎他要收益生那如果一個年紀長者已經很大了他有沒有足夠的力氣有沒有足夠的體力去承載教學的任務我們認為如果大家很喜歡到日本買所謂的達人這些匠人的手工藝品"},{"start":666.112,"end":669.935,"text":"台灣其實也有這些東西可是我們在人間國寶提報上其實出了很大的問題可能大家過去傳統的觀念認為要年紀很大才能叫做國寶我這裡真的必須要跟部長說我覺得我們應該要來翻新這個觀念因為部長確實您在上任之後非常多的作為我覺得都很年輕也很創新也想要跟年輕世代對話可是人間國寶其實也有很多年輕人想要去學習可是相關這些問題我們覺得非常困難"},{"start":690.669,"end":713.487,"text":"不管是文資局他們從地方政府收到的資料可能是地方政府的怠惰也可能是文資局他們覺得他們沒有主動提報的機會或者是可能或者是我們看到有更多原住民的祭司他們的相關平均年齡其實已經比非原住民的族群還要來得短那可是提報年紀又這麼大所以我們可不可以這邊請快速請文化部訂定相關計畫要求地方至少每3年以60歲為基準進行普查這個部分有沒有機會"},{"start":718.07,"end":723.035,"text":"時間關係我會很快速回答委員我想去年在頒獎的時候我就跟文字局說"},{"start":725.014,"end":725.454,"text":"委員報告 這要怎麼審查"},{"start":755.228,"end":755.389,"text":"主席"}]}}}}