{"id":150492,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150492","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5e79adcab079158d36e9ac27f41e17f3cf8ba9b0039caa7a60be9ff9e72e124835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"傅崐萁","委員發言時間":"11:18:27 - 11:30:16","影片長度":"00:11:49","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長及行政院相關機關（含事業單位）列席就「政府機關推動人事服務數位轉型」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。\n【其中7案如經院會復議，則不予審查、處理】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":709,"end_time":"2024-03-27T11:30:16+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T11:18:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":870,"blocks":[["傅委員崐萁：（11時18分）主席，請人事長。"],["主席：請人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早。"],["傅委員崐萁：人事長好。最近全國教師工會總聯合會一直在對人事長所提的調薪案，表示很多的意見，人事長是不是可以撥個空接見他們一下？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：沒問題。"],["傅委員崐萁：因為聽說他們找不到你。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：不會啊，我都在啊！"],["傅委員崐萁：所以他們就委託本席，是不是能夠請人事長打開善門，跟他們見個面？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。謝謝委員。"],["傅委員崐萁：我先洩題一下，他們主要想跟人事長討論的，就是目前整體調薪三個百分點，但是在整個物價上漲的情況下，軍公教人員在生活上仍有非常大的疑慮。我們舉例來講，從整個物價指數來看，我們110年4月份的時候指數是99.35，然後到112年4月的時候，兩年之間，到去年的4月是105.11，上漲了5.8%，現在調薪3%的話，等於是變相讓公務員生活得更加艱困，少了2.8個百分點。就是加薪不是對他有獎勵還是能夠改善生活，反而是追不上物價的上漲，人事長這部分有什麼看法？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝委員，事實上上次的業務報告裡面也有提到我們針對調薪的部分去做法制化，在研議的過程中，其中一種方式就是搭著CPI一起走，再加上整個政府財政的考量。因為幕僚單位初步擬了兩個方案，到時候會邀請一些專家、學者還有一些民間的，甚至委員所提的基層公教人員，大家一起來討論看看這樣的一個調整，等於就是跟CPI掛在一起啦。"],["傅委員崐萁：不只是這樣子，人事長，我們為什麼要來探討國家一流的人才這個問題？這些大專院校的畢業生、碩博士生學校畢業以後未來就業的方式有非常多種，士農工商，如果他考慮要優先到政府部門來服務，然後參加高普考等等進入政府──如果優秀的這些大專院校的畢業生、碩博士生都願意來投考政府單位，一流的人才進入政府，才會有一流的國家。當大家都不願意進入政府的時候，三流的人才進政府，我們就是三流的國家。所以要怎麼樣確保最好的人才能夠為政府所網羅，我想這是人事長你肩膀上責無旁貸的責任，必須要有這樣的誘因才會讓更多優秀的青年學子願意走向政府。我們看一些比較強大的國家，一流的人才都比較願意進入政府，所以我們是不是看一下蔡總統過去對於基層勞工的部分？她說要照顧基層勞工，不只要民生物價的指數，還要參考GDP漲幅的二分之一，如果這樣子算起來的話，真的是差很多。蔡總統確實有照顧，她的方向是對基層勞工能夠有所幫助。但是我們回頭反過來思考，我們的軍公教反而是次要的、甚至是不必要關注的，人事長有什麼想法？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：事實上我們過去這幾年也很在乎，到公部門來服務第一個除了待遇要好，然後福利也要不差；另外還有一個，事實上很多人選擇到公部門服務，就是因為他有一些成就感的問題，因為在公部門服務可以幫整個國家社會做更多的事情。剛才委員指教的，除了CPI以外，我們之前評量時，也有考慮到整個經濟成長率，還有GDP相關的指標，現在是朝兩個方式去找一個公式把它算進來，因為整個國家的經濟成長率好，公務人員的貢獻度也是有的，我覺得委員的建議非常的棒。"],["傅委員崐萁：謝謝人事長，如果你們願意重新來看待這個事情，找到一個可以平衡的方式，本席是比較樂見。不要當軍公教永遠就是沉默的一群，永遠就是應該要吃苦耐勞、為政府來承擔，然後又不受到照顧的一群。舉例來講，剛剛本席已經提到物價指數是5.8個百分點，兩年當中上升了5.8個百分點，但是我們調薪4%，等於我們變相的苛扣他們1.8個百分點。如果我們再用民生物價指數來看的話，110年是99.14，112年4月已經到111.11，總共上漲12個百分點。如果我們只調4%，他們真的很難生活，差了8個百分點。所以如果我們的計算公式已經失真、失靈，沒有辦法確實反映到現在的生活物價水平，還有民生必需品的生活水平，以後我們公教人員真的不是鐵飯碗，是拿一個破飯碗要出去要飯。請問還有什麼樣優秀的人才願意進入政府部門？所以本席今天提出以後，謝謝人事長，既然有正面來回應，希望你們新的試算的公式儘快提出來，不然全國軍公教有太多的團體會一一到人事總處這裡來拜訪，因為他們沒有辦法再過生活，尤其去年政府超收了3,860億元，超收了這麼多錢，但是軍公教人員一樣要過窮苦人的生活，這個對他們是不公平的。本席就靜候人事長您有什麼樣的新辦法能夠提供出來，讓我們大家一起來討論。","另外就是……後面還有兩分鐘，不要急，我們鍾佳濱主席真的是人才，我聽他質詢過很多次，真的是人才。","本席在這裡要特別要跟人事長來分析一下，現在公務員e化的課程怎麼會把轉型正義也納進去？我覺得很不必要做這樣的事情，尤其你們這個科目20小時裡面10個小時要在網路上來看，其實基層的公務員大家都知道，要掛線10個小時，還在做其他的事情，也沒有人在看螢幕，現在已經是一個通案了。你要我連上網10個小時，確實我就是上網然後辦其他的公務，也沒有人在看，那20個小時還要上其他的課程，是不是已經過分的僵化？沒有實質的意義，是不是自由報名參加會更加的適合？您思考看看。這樣等於又為基層的公務員新增他們的困擾。","而且大家也知道在這個過程當中，今年政府有這麼多個資的外洩，包括2018年4月臺北市政府298萬筆的個資洩漏；銓敘部2019年6月59萬筆的個資洩漏；內政部2020年的10月21號、10月25號，不得了，總共五千多萬筆的資料外洩，現在還要再搞這個e化，叫公務員已經這麼多工作的情況之下還要搞這個？另外，拜託轉型正義不要再鬧了，好不好？這個課程是誰逼你一定要排的，你告訴本席，本席來幫你平反也沒有關係，好不好？什麼找楊翠這些都沒有必要吧？好不好？公務員怎麼提升他的工作效率比較重要，不要又把意識型態搞到公務體系來。本席才覺得人事長你比較沒有政治色彩，怎麼搞出這麼有爭議的課程，又找這些……哇！這不得了！講話都很血腥的；哇！這個不得了！這個楊翠講的話，都是說什麼沾滿血腥的國民黨怎麼樣怎麼樣，還可以發言什麼……不要把這些仇恨值帶給我們的公務員，讓他們有一個真正行政中立的空間，好不好？這課程是不是考慮就把它減免了？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝委員指教，我們會跟行政院人權及轉型正義處來反映這樣的事情。"],["傅委員崐萁：不是，我們不反對促轉會要做什麼事情，愛聽它的課自己的到促轉會去聽，但是人事總處不要強制性做這個工作。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，我們來處理。"],["傅委員崐萁：愛聽的人去沒有關係，但不要強制。"],["主席：謝謝，謝謝傅總召，謝謝蘇人事長。我們依先前宣告休息5分鐘。","休息（11時30分）","繼續開會（11時35分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","請吳委員宗憲進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-9","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","陳俊宇","林思銘","羅智強","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","謝龍介","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 258.28, \"end\": 258.54, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 258.54, \"end\": 258.681, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 258.681, \"end\": 258.921, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 258.921, \"end\": 258.941, \"score\": 0.737}]}, {\"start\": 260.7, \"end\": 279.75, \"text\": \"所以是不是我們看一下蔡總統過去對於繼承勞工的部分他們說要照顧繼承勞工不只要民生物價的指數還要參考還要參考這個我們的GDP的漲幅的二分之一\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 260.7, \"end\": 260.88, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 260.88, \"end\": 261.44, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 261.44, \"end\": 261.56, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 261.56, \"end\": 261.701, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 261.701, \"end\": 262.901, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 262.901, \"end\": 263.261, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 263.261, \"end\": 263.381, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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00:01:40,947\n110年4月份的時候指數是99.35然後到112年4月的時候兩年之間現在100到去年的4月是105.11那上漲了5.8百分之5.8但是呢我們現在調薪3%的話等於是變相讓我們的公務員生活得更加艱困\n\n6\n00:02:04,029 --> 00:02:18,034\n少了2.8個百分點就是他加薪不是對他有獎勵還是對他能夠改善他的生活反而是追不上物價的上漲我想人事長這部分有什麼看法沒有\n\n7\n00:02:19,634 --> 00:02:35,734\n我謝謝委員。事實上在上次的業務報告裡面也有提到請我們針對挑釁的部分去做法制化。事實上我們在法制化的研議的過程中,其中一種方式就是搭著那個CPI一起走。\n\n8\n00:02:36,255 --> 00:03:00,536\n然後再加上整個政府財政的考量那事實上因為這個是我們幕僚單位初步擬了兩個方案到時候我們會邀請一些專家、協者還有一些民間的甚至委員所提的基層的公教人員大家一起來討論看看這樣的一個調整等於就是加CPI、加照會啦那個不只是這樣子\n\n9\n00:03:01,738 --> 00:03:29,661\n我想這個人事長我們為什麼要來探討這個問題如果國家一流的人才這些大專院校的畢業生、碩博士生學校畢業以後他的選擇的方式未來就業的方式有非常多種士農工商嘛但是他如果考慮要優先到政府部門來服務的時候參加我們的高普考等等\n\n10\n00:03:55,418 --> 00:04:18,941\n把最好的人才能夠為政府所網羅我想這是人事長啊你肩膀上責無旁貸的責任必須要這樣的誘因才會讓更多的優秀的這些青年學子這些人才願意走向政府我們看一下一些比較強大的國家他一流人才都比較願意進入政府\n\n11\n00:04:20,700 --> 00:04:39,750\n所以是不是我們看一下蔡總統過去對於繼承勞工的部分他們說要照顧繼承勞工不只要民生物價的指數還要參考還要參考這個我們的GDP的漲幅的二分之一\n\n12\n00:04:40,646 --> 00:05:05,866\n那如果這樣子算起來的話真的是差很多就是說蔡總統確實有照顧他的方向是要對我們基層勞工能夠啊有所多所幫助但是我們回想緩頭過來思考那對我們的軍公教反而是次要的甚至是不必要關注的人事長有什麼想法\n\n13\n00:05:07,232 --> 00:05:35,788\n事實上我們過去這幾年事實上我們很在乎到公部門來服務第一個除了待遇要好然後福利也要不差另外還有一個事實上很多人選擇到公部門服務就是因為他要去有一些成就感的問題因為在公部門服務事實上可以幫整個國家社會做更多的事情那剛才委員指教的就是說除了CPI以外\n\n14\n00:05:36,288 --> 00:05:36,408\n謝謝人事長\n\n15\n00:06:02,034 --> 00:06:19,731\n如果你們願意重新來看待這個事情找到一個可以平衡的方式本席是比較樂見不要把它當作說軍公教永遠就是沉默的一群永遠就是應該要吃苦耐勞然後為政府來承擔然後又不受到照顧的一群我們舉例來講剛剛\n\n16\n00:06:23,220 --> 00:06:42,074\n本席已經提到了物價指數是5.8個百分點兩年當中上升了5.8個百分點但是我們調新3%等於變4%等於我們變相的可扣他們1.8個百分點那我們再過來再看如果是用這個民生物價指數來看的話\n\n17\n00:06:44,058 --> 00:07:01,285\n一百一十年兩年一百一十年是九十九點一四一百一十二年的四月已經到一百一十一點一一總共上漲十二個百分點如果我們只調四趴他們真的很難生活差了八個百分點\n\n18\n00:07:02,546 --> 00:07:27,461\n所以如果我們的計算公式已經失真失靈沒有辦法確實反映到現在的生活物價水平還有民生的必需品這些生活水平真的以後我們公交人員真的不是鐵飯碗是拿一個破飯碗要出去要飯那請問這樣子還有什麼樣的優秀的人才願意進入政府部門\n\n19\n00:07:29,011 --> 00:07:50,369\n所以本席今天提出以後我謝謝我謝謝這個人事長竟然有正面來回應希望你們新的試算的公式要盡快提出來不然哪全國軍公教有太多的團體會一一到這個人事總處這裡來拜訪因為他們沒有辦法再過生活尤其去年政府超收了3860億超收了這麼多錢\n\n20\n00:07:55,097 --> 00:08:22,777\n但是我們軍工交流人員一樣要過窮苦人的生活這個對他們是不公平的所以人事長本席就禁扣您看有什麼樣的什麼樣的這個新的辦法能夠提供出來讓我們大家一起來討論那另外就是不要急後面還有兩分鐘不要急那個我們眾嘉賓\n\n21\n00:08:23,772 --> 00:08:51,474\n主席真的是人才,我聽他諮詢過很多次,真的是人才。可惜在這裡我要特別要跟這個人事長來分析一下,現在這個公務員這個異化的課程啊,怎麼會把轉型正義也納進去。我覺得這個已經確實很不必要做這樣的一個事情。這個尤其你們這個科目啊,\n\n22\n00:08:53,145 --> 00:09:22,074\n這個科目啊你們這個20小時裡面啊10個小時要在網路上來看其實基層的公務員大家都知道嘛要掛線10個小時還在做其他的事情也沒有人在看螢幕啦這個已經現在是一個通亂了你要我連上網10個小時確實我就上網然後我再辦其他的公務也沒有人在看那20個小時還要其他上其他的課程\n\n23\n00:09:22,907 --> 00:09:49,216\n是不是這個已經過分的僵化沒有實質的意義是不是自由報名參加會更加的會更加的適合您思考看看因為這樣得為基層的這些這些公務員又添增他們的困擾添增他們的困擾而且大家也知道嘛在這個過程當中我們今年我們政府有這麼多各自的外線包括\n\n24\n00:09:50,370 --> 00:09:55,992\n2018年4月臺北市政府298萬筆的個資洩漏全區部2019年6月59萬筆的個資洩漏內政部2020年的10月21號、10月25號總共不得了5000多萬筆的資料外洩所以我們現在還要再搞這個議案然後叫公務員已經這麼多的工作的情況之下他們還要搞這個另外拜託\n\n25\n00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:40,465\n轉型正義不要再鬧了好不好這個課程是誰逼你一定要排的你告訴本席本席來幫你平反也沒有關係好不好什麼找楊翠這些真的沒有必要嘛好不好公務員怎麼提升他的工作效率不是比較重要不要又把意識形態搞到公務體系來嘛\n\n26\n00:10:42,283 --> 00:10:57,780\n本來覺得這個人事長你比較沒有這個正式色彩怎麼搞得這麼有爭議的課程對不對又找了這些哇這不得了這個講話都很血腥的哇這個不得了叫做什麼\n\n27\n00:10:59,246 --> 00:11:27,081\n這個哇這個楊翠啊哇這個講的話哇都是說啊什麼沾滿血腥的這個國民黨怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣還可以發言什麼欸不要把這些仇恨值啊帶給我們的公務員讓他們有一個真正行政中立的空間好不好好這課程是不是考慮就把他減免了好不好呃呃謝謝委員只叫我們會跟行政院人選及轉型正義處來反映這樣的事情不是啊\n\n28\n00:11:27,895 --> 00:11:46,808\n我們不反對出轉會要做什麼事情愛聽他的課了到出轉會自己去聽但是人事總處不要強制性做這個工作好,我們來處理愛聽的人去沒有關係但不要強制好不好好,謝謝好,謝謝副總召謝謝蘇仁市長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6145\t17192\t主席請人事長委員長人事長好請問一下現在我們這個全國\n22723\t42802\t教師工會聯合總會一直在對我們人事長條性的部分有表示很多的意見是不是撥個空啊這個人事長可以跟他們接見一下怎麼樣沒問題沒問題因為聽說他們找不到你\n43584\t48307\t委託本席是不是能夠請人事長打開扇門跟他們見個面。我想他們主要要跟人事長討論的問題,我先跟你竊提一下。就對於這個\n64249\t83892\t目前整體的調薪3個百分點可能對現在整體的物價上漲軍公交人員真的是有非常大的這個生活上的疑慮我們舉例來講現在我們整個這個物價指數來看整個物價指數來看我們\n94565\t100947\t110年4月份的時候指數是99.35然後到112年4月的時候兩年之間現在100到去年的4月是105.11那上漲了5.8百分之5.8但是呢我們現在調薪3%的話等於是變相讓我們的公務員生活得更加艱困\n124029\t138034\t少了2.8個百分點就是他加薪不是對他有獎勵還是對他能夠改善他的生活反而是追不上物價的上漲我想人事長這部分有什麼看法沒有\n139634\t155734\t我謝謝委員。事實上在上次的業務報告裡面也有提到請我們針對挑釁的部分去做法制化。事實上我們在法制化的研議的過程中,其中一種方式就是搭著那個CPI一起走。\n156255\t180536\t然後再加上整個政府財政的考量那事實上因為這個是我們幕僚單位初步擬了兩個方案到時候我們會邀請一些專家、協者還有一些民間的甚至委員所提的基層的公教人員大家一起來討論看看這樣的一個調整等於就是加CPI、加照會啦那個不只是這樣子\n181738\t209661\t我想這個人事長我們為什麼要來探討這個問題如果國家一流的人才這些大專院校的畢業生、碩博士生學校畢業以後他的選擇的方式未來就業的方式有非常多種士農工商嘛但是他如果考慮要優先到政府部門來服務的時候參加我們的高普考等等\n210930\t233882\t議員議員議員\n235418\t258941\t把最好的人才能夠為政府所網羅我想這是人事長啊你肩膀上責無旁貸的責任必須要這樣的誘因才會讓更多的優秀的這些青年學子這些人才願意走向政府我們看一下一些比較強大的國家他一流人才都比較願意進入政府\n260700\t279750\t所以是不是我們看一下蔡總統過去對於繼承勞工的部分他們說要照顧繼承勞工不只要民生物價的指數還要參考還要參考這個我們的GDP的漲幅的二分之一\n280646\t305866\t那如果這樣子算起來的話真的是差很多就是說蔡總統確實有照顧他的方向是要對我們基層勞工能夠啊有所多所幫助但是我們回想緩頭過來思考那對我們的軍公教反而是次要的甚至是不必要關注的人事長有什麼想法\n307232\t335788\t事實上我們過去這幾年事實上我們很在乎到公部門來服務第一個除了待遇要好然後福利也要不差另外還有一個事實上很多人選擇到公部門服務就是因為他要去有一些成就感的問題因為在公部門服務事實上可以幫整個國家社會做更多的事情那剛才委員指教的就是說除了CPI以外\n336288\t336408\t謝謝人事長\n362034\t379731\t如果你們願意重新來看待這個事情找到一個可以平衡的方式本席是比較樂見不要把它當作說軍公教永遠就是沉默的一群永遠就是應該要吃苦耐勞然後為政府來承擔然後又不受到照顧的一群我們舉例來講剛剛\n383220\t402074\t本席已經提到了物價指數是5.8個百分點兩年當中上升了5.8個百分點但是我們調新3%等於變4%等於我們變相的可扣他們1.8個百分點那我們再過來再看如果是用這個民生物價指數來看的話\n404058\t421285\t一百一十年兩年一百一十年是九十九點一四一百一十二年的四月已經到一百一十一點一一總共上漲十二個百分點如果我們只調四趴他們真的很難生活差了八個百分點\n422546\t447461\t所以如果我們的計算公式已經失真失靈沒有辦法確實反映到現在的生活物價水平還有民生的必需品這些生活水平真的以後我們公交人員真的不是鐵飯碗是拿一個破飯碗要出去要飯那請問這樣子還有什麼樣的優秀的人才願意進入政府部門\n449011\t470369\t所以本席今天提出以後我謝謝我謝謝這個人事長竟然有正面來回應希望你們新的試算的公式要盡快提出來不然哪 全國軍公教有太多的團體會一一到這個人事總處這裡來拜訪因為他們沒有辦法再過生活尤其去年政府超收了3860億超收了這麼多錢\n475097\t502777\t但是我們軍工交流人員一樣要過窮苦人的生活這個對他們是不公平的所以人事長本席就禁扣您看有什麼樣的什麼樣的這個新的辦法能夠提供出來讓我們大家一起來討論那另外就是不要急後面還有兩分鐘不要急那個我們眾嘉賓\n503772\t531474\t主席真的是人才,我聽他諮詢過很多次,真的是人才。可惜在這裡我要特別要跟這個人事長來分析一下,現在這個公務員這個異化的課程啊,怎麼會把轉型正義也納進去。我覺得這個已經確實很不必要做這樣的一個事情。這個尤其你們這個科目啊,\n533145\t562074\t這個科目啊你們這個20小時裡面啊10個小時要在網路上來看其實基層的公務員大家都知道嘛要掛線10個小時還在做其他的事情也沒有人在看螢幕啦這個已經現在是一個通亂了你要我連上網10個小時確實我就上網然後我再辦其他的公務也沒有人在看那20個小時還要其他上其他的課程\n562907\t589216\t是不是這個已經過分的僵化沒有實質的意義是不是自由報名參加會更加的會更加的適合您思考看看因為這樣得為基層的這些這些公務員又添增他們的困擾添增他們的困擾而且大家也知道嘛在這個過程當中我們今年我們政府有這麼多各自的外線包括\n590370\t595992\t2018年4月臺北市政府298萬筆的個資洩漏全區部2019年6月59萬筆的個資洩漏內政部2020年的10月21號、10月25號總共不得了5000多萬筆的資料外洩所以我們現在還要再搞這個議案然後叫公務員已經這麼多的工作的情況之下他們還要搞這個另外拜託\n619760\t640465\t轉型正義不要再鬧了好不好這個課程是誰逼你一定要排的你告訴本席本席來幫你平反也沒有關係好不好什麼找楊翠這些真的沒有必要嘛好不好公務員怎麼提升他的工作效率不是比較重要不要又把意識形態搞到公務體系來嘛\n642283\t657780\t本來覺得這個人事長你比較沒有這個正式色彩怎麼搞得這麼有爭議的課程對不對又找了這些哇這不得了這個講話都很血腥的哇這個不得了叫做什麼\n659246\t687081\t這個哇這個楊翠啊哇這個講的話哇都是說啊什麼沾滿血腥的這個國民黨怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣還可以發言什麼欸不要把這些仇恨值啊帶給我們的公務員讓他們有一個真正行政中立的空間好不好好這課程是不是考慮就把他減免了好不好呃呃謝謝委員只叫我們會跟行政院人選及轉型正義處來反映這樣的事情不是啊\n687895\t706808\t我們不反對出轉會要做什麼事情愛聽他的課了到出轉會自己去聽但是人事總處不要強制性做這個工作好,我們來處理愛聽的人去沒有關係但不要強制好不好好,謝謝好,謝謝副總召謝謝蘇仁市長\n","txt":"主席請人事長委員長人事長好請問一下現在我們這個全國\n教師工會聯合總會一直在對我們人事長條性的部分有表示很多的意見是不是撥個空啊這個人事長可以跟他們接見一下怎麼樣沒問題沒問題因為聽說他們找不到你\n委託本席是不是能夠請人事長打開扇門跟他們見個面。我想他們主要要跟人事長討論的問題,我先跟你竊提一下。就對於這個\n目前整體的調薪3個百分點可能對現在整體的物價上漲軍公交人員真的是有非常大的這個生活上的疑慮我們舉例來講現在我們整個這個物價指數來看整個物價指數來看我們\n110年4月份的時候指數是99.35然後到112年4月的時候兩年之間現在100到去年的4月是105.11那上漲了5.8百分之5.8但是呢我們現在調薪3%的話等於是變相讓我們的公務員生活得更加艱困\n少了2.8個百分點就是他加薪不是對他有獎勵還是對他能夠改善他的生活反而是追不上物價的上漲我想人事長這部分有什麼看法沒有\n我謝謝委員。事實上在上次的業務報告裡面也有提到請我們針對挑釁的部分去做法制化。事實上我們在法制化的研議的過程中,其中一種方式就是搭著那個CPI一起走。\n然後再加上整個政府財政的考量那事實上因為這個是我們幕僚單位初步擬了兩個方案到時候我們會邀請一些專家、協者還有一些民間的甚至委員所提的基層的公教人員大家一起來討論看看這樣的一個調整等於就是加CPI、加照會啦那個不只是這樣子\n我想這個人事長我們為什麼要來探討這個問題如果國家一流的人才這些大專院校的畢業生、碩博士生學校畢業以後他的選擇的方式未來就業的方式有非常多種士農工商嘛但是他如果考慮要優先到政府部門來服務的時候參加我們的高普考等等\n議員議員議員\n把最好的人才能夠為政府所網羅我想這是人事長啊你肩膀上責無旁貸的責任必須要這樣的誘因才會讓更多的優秀的這些青年學子這些人才願意走向政府我們看一下一些比較強大的國家他一流人才都比較願意進入政府\n所以是不是我們看一下蔡總統過去對於繼承勞工的部分他們說要照顧繼承勞工不只要民生物價的指數還要參考還要參考這個我們的GDP的漲幅的二分之一\n那如果這樣子算起來的話真的是差很多就是說蔡總統確實有照顧他的方向是要對我們基層勞工能夠啊有所多所幫助但是我們回想緩頭過來思考那對我們的軍公教反而是次要的甚至是不必要關注的人事長有什麼想法\n事實上我們過去這幾年事實上我們很在乎到公部門來服務第一個除了待遇要好然後福利也要不差另外還有一個事實上很多人選擇到公部門服務就是因為他要去有一些成就感的問題因為在公部門服務事實上可以幫整個國家社會做更多的事情那剛才委員指教的就是說除了CPI以外\n謝謝人事長\n如果你們願意重新來看待這個事情找到一個可以平衡的方式本席是比較樂見不要把它當作說軍公教永遠就是沉默的一群永遠就是應該要吃苦耐勞然後為政府來承擔然後又不受到照顧的一群我們舉例來講剛剛\n本席已經提到了物價指數是5.8個百分點兩年當中上升了5.8個百分點但是我們調新3%等於變4%等於我們變相的可扣他們1.8個百分點那我們再過來再看如果是用這個民生物價指數來看的話\n一百一十年兩年一百一十年是九十九點一四一百一十二年的四月已經到一百一十一點一一總共上漲十二個百分點如果我們只調四趴他們真的很難生活差了八個百分點\n所以如果我們的計算公式已經失真失靈沒有辦法確實反映到現在的生活物價水平還有民生的必需品這些生活水平真的以後我們公交人員真的不是鐵飯碗是拿一個破飯碗要出去要飯那請問這樣子還有什麼樣的優秀的人才願意進入政府部門\n所以本席今天提出以後我謝謝我謝謝這個人事長竟然有正面來回應希望你們新的試算的公式要盡快提出來不然哪 全國軍公教有太多的團體會一一到這個人事總處這裡來拜訪因為他們沒有辦法再過生活尤其去年政府超收了3860億超收了這麼多錢\n但是我們軍工交流人員一樣要過窮苦人的生活這個對他們是不公平的所以人事長本席就禁扣您看有什麼樣的什麼樣的這個新的辦法能夠提供出來讓我們大家一起來討論那另外就是不要急後面還有兩分鐘不要急那個我們眾嘉賓\n主席真的是人才,我聽他諮詢過很多次,真的是人才。可惜在這裡我要特別要跟這個人事長來分析一下,現在這個公務員這個異化的課程啊,怎麼會把轉型正義也納進去。我覺得這個已經確實很不必要做這樣的一個事情。這個尤其你們這個科目啊,\n這個科目啊你們這個20小時裡面啊10個小時要在網路上來看其實基層的公務員大家都知道嘛要掛線10個小時還在做其他的事情也沒有人在看螢幕啦這個已經現在是一個通亂了你要我連上網10個小時確實我就上網然後我再辦其他的公務也沒有人在看那20個小時還要其他上其他的課程\n是不是這個已經過分的僵化沒有實質的意義是不是自由報名參加會更加的會更加的適合您思考看看因為這樣得為基層的這些這些公務員又添增他們的困擾添增他們的困擾而且大家也知道嘛在這個過程當中我們今年我們政府有這麼多各自的外線包括\n2018年4月臺北市政府298萬筆的個資洩漏全區部2019年6月59萬筆的個資洩漏內政部2020年的10月21號、10月25號總共不得了5000多萬筆的資料外洩所以我們現在還要再搞這個議案然後叫公務員已經這麼多的工作的情況之下他們還要搞這個另外拜託\n轉型正義不要再鬧了好不好這個課程是誰逼你一定要排的你告訴本席本席來幫你平反也沒有關係好不好什麼找楊翠這些真的沒有必要嘛好不好公務員怎麼提升他的工作效率不是比較重要不要又把意識形態搞到公務體系來嘛\n本來覺得這個人事長你比較沒有這個正式色彩怎麼搞得這麼有爭議的課程對不對又找了這些哇這不得了這個講話都很血腥的哇這個不得了叫做什麼\n這個哇這個楊翠啊哇這個講的話哇都是說啊什麼沾滿血腥的這個國民黨怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣還可以發言什麼欸不要把這些仇恨值啊帶給我們的公務員讓他們有一個真正行政中立的空間好不好好這課程是不是考慮就把他減免了好不好呃呃謝謝委員只叫我們會跟行政院人選及轉型正義處來反映這樣的事情不是啊\n我們不反對出轉會要做什麼事情愛聽他的課了到出轉會自己去聽但是人事總處不要強制性做這個工作好,我們來處理愛聽的人去沒有關係但不要強制好不好好,謝謝好,謝謝副總召謝謝蘇仁市長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.145 --> 00:17.192\n主席請人事長委員長人事長好請問一下現在我們這個全國\n\n00:22.723 --> 00:42.802\n教師工會聯合總會一直在對我們人事長條性的部分有表示很多的意見是不是撥個空啊這個人事長可以跟他們接見一下怎麼樣沒問題沒問題因為聽說他們找不到你\n\n00:43.584 --> 00:48.307\n委託本席是不是能夠請人事長打開扇門跟他們見個面。我想他們主要要跟人事長討論的問題,我先跟你竊提一下。就對於這個\n\n01:04.249 --> 01:23.892\n目前整體的調薪3個百分點可能對現在整體的物價上漲軍公交人員真的是有非常大的這個生活上的疑慮我們舉例來講現在我們整個這個物價指數來看整個物價指數來看我們\n\n01:34.565 --> 01:40.947\n110年4月份的時候指數是99.35然後到112年4月的時候兩年之間現在100到去年的4月是105.11那上漲了5.8百分之5.8但是呢我們現在調薪3%的話等於是變相讓我們的公務員生活得更加艱困\n\n02:04.029 --> 02:18.034\n少了2.8個百分點就是他加薪不是對他有獎勵還是對他能夠改善他的生活反而是追不上物價的上漲我想人事長這部分有什麼看法沒有\n\n02:19.634 --> 02:35.734\n我謝謝委員。事實上在上次的業務報告裡面也有提到請我們針對挑釁的部分去做法制化。事實上我們在法制化的研議的過程中,其中一種方式就是搭著那個CPI一起走。\n\n02:36.255 --> 03:00.536\n然後再加上整個政府財政的考量那事實上因為這個是我們幕僚單位初步擬了兩個方案到時候我們會邀請一些專家、協者還有一些民間的甚至委員所提的基層的公教人員大家一起來討論看看這樣的一個調整等於就是加CPI、加照會啦那個不只是這樣子\n\n03:01.738 --> 03:29.661\n我想這個人事長我們為什麼要來探討這個問題如果國家一流的人才這些大專院校的畢業生、碩博士生學校畢業以後他的選擇的方式未來就業的方式有非常多種士農工商嘛但是他如果考慮要優先到政府部門來服務的時候參加我們的高普考等等\n\n03:55.418 --> 04:18.941\n把最好的人才能夠為政府所網羅我想這是人事長啊你肩膀上責無旁貸的責任必須要這樣的誘因才會讓更多的優秀的這些青年學子這些人才願意走向政府我們看一下一些比較強大的國家他一流人才都比較願意進入政府\n\n04:20.700 --> 04:39.750\n所以是不是我們看一下蔡總統過去對於繼承勞工的部分他們說要照顧繼承勞工不只要民生物價的指數還要參考還要參考這個我們的GDP的漲幅的二分之一\n\n04:40.646 --> 05:05.866\n那如果這樣子算起來的話真的是差很多就是說蔡總統確實有照顧他的方向是要對我們基層勞工能夠啊有所多所幫助但是我們回想緩頭過來思考那對我們的軍公教反而是次要的甚至是不必要關注的人事長有什麼想法\n\n05:07.232 --> 05:35.788\n事實上我們過去這幾年事實上我們很在乎到公部門來服務第一個除了待遇要好然後福利也要不差另外還有一個事實上很多人選擇到公部門服務就是因為他要去有一些成就感的問題因為在公部門服務事實上可以幫整個國家社會做更多的事情那剛才委員指教的就是說除了CPI以外\n\n05:36.288 --> 05:36.408\n謝謝人事長\n\n06:02.034 --> 06:19.731\n如果你們願意重新來看待這個事情找到一個可以平衡的方式本席是比較樂見不要把它當作說軍公教永遠就是沉默的一群永遠就是應該要吃苦耐勞然後為政府來承擔然後又不受到照顧的一群我們舉例來講剛剛\n\n06:23.220 --> 06:42.074\n本席已經提到了物價指數是5.8個百分點兩年當中上升了5.8個百分點但是我們調新3%等於變4%等於我們變相的可扣他們1.8個百分點那我們再過來再看如果是用這個民生物價指數來看的話\n\n06:44.058 --> 07:01.285\n一百一十年兩年一百一十年是九十九點一四一百一十二年的四月已經到一百一十一點一一總共上漲十二個百分點如果我們只調四趴他們真的很難生活差了八個百分點\n\n07:02.546 --> 07:27.461\n所以如果我們的計算公式已經失真失靈沒有辦法確實反映到現在的生活物價水平還有民生的必需品這些生活水平真的以後我們公交人員真的不是鐵飯碗是拿一個破飯碗要出去要飯那請問這樣子還有什麼樣的優秀的人才願意進入政府部門\n\n07:29.011 --> 07:50.369\n所以本席今天提出以後我謝謝我謝謝這個人事長竟然有正面來回應希望你們新的試算的公式要盡快提出來不然哪全國軍公教有太多的團體會一一到這個人事總處這裡來拜訪因為他們沒有辦法再過生活尤其去年政府超收了3860億超收了這麼多錢\n\n07:55.097 --> 08:22.777\n但是我們軍工交流人員一樣要過窮苦人的生活這個對他們是不公平的所以人事長本席就禁扣您看有什麼樣的什麼樣的這個新的辦法能夠提供出來讓我們大家一起來討論那另外就是不要急後面還有兩分鐘不要急那個我們眾嘉賓\n\n08:23.772 --> 08:51.474\n主席真的是人才,我聽他諮詢過很多次,真的是人才。可惜在這裡我要特別要跟這個人事長來分析一下,現在這個公務員這個異化的課程啊,怎麼會把轉型正義也納進去。我覺得這個已經確實很不必要做這樣的一個事情。這個尤其你們這個科目啊,\n\n08:53.145 --> 09:22.074\n這個科目啊你們這個20小時裡面啊10個小時要在網路上來看其實基層的公務員大家都知道嘛要掛線10個小時還在做其他的事情也沒有人在看螢幕啦這個已經現在是一個通亂了你要我連上網10個小時確實我就上網然後我再辦其他的公務也沒有人在看那20個小時還要其他上其他的課程\n\n09:22.907 --> 09:49.216\n是不是這個已經過分的僵化沒有實質的意義是不是自由報名參加會更加的會更加的適合您思考看看因為這樣得為基層的這些這些公務員又添增他們的困擾添增他們的困擾而且大家也知道嘛在這個過程當中我們今年我們政府有這麼多各自的外線包括\n\n09:50.370 --> 09:55.992\n2018年4月臺北市政府298萬筆的個資洩漏全區部2019年6月59萬筆的個資洩漏內政部2020年的10月21號、10月25號總共不得了5000多萬筆的資料外洩所以我們現在還要再搞這個議案然後叫公務員已經這麼多的工作的情況之下他們還要搞這個另外拜託\n\n10:19.760 --> 10:40.465\n轉型正義不要再鬧了好不好這個課程是誰逼你一定要排的你告訴本席本席來幫你平反也沒有關係好不好什麼找楊翠這些真的沒有必要嘛好不好公務員怎麼提升他的工作效率不是比較重要不要又把意識形態搞到公務體系來嘛\n\n10:42.283 --> 10:57.780\n本來覺得這個人事長你比較沒有這個正式色彩怎麼搞得這麼有爭議的課程對不對又找了這些哇這不得了這個講話都很血腥的哇這個不得了叫做什麼\n\n10:59.246 --> 11:27.081\n這個哇這個楊翠啊哇這個講的話哇都是說啊什麼沾滿血腥的這個國民黨怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣還可以發言什麼欸不要把這些仇恨值啊帶給我們的公務員讓他們有一個真正行政中立的空間好不好好這課程是不是考慮就把他減免了好不好呃呃謝謝委員只叫我們會跟行政院人選及轉型正義處來反映這樣的事情不是啊\n\n11:27.895 --> 11:46.808\n我們不反對出轉會要做什麼事情愛聽他的課了到出轉會自己去聽但是人事總處不要強制性做這個工作好,我們來處理愛聽的人去沒有關係但不要強制好不好好,謝謝好,謝謝副總召謝謝蘇仁市長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.145,"end":17.192,"text":"主席請人事長委員長人事長好請問一下現在我們這個全國"},{"start":22.723,"end":42.802,"text":"教師工會聯合總會一直在對我們人事長條性的部分有表示很多的意見是不是撥個空啊這個人事長可以跟他們接見一下怎麼樣沒問題沒問題因為聽說他們找不到你"},{"start":43.584,"end":48.307,"text":"委託本席是不是能夠請人事長打開扇門跟他們見個面。我想他們主要要跟人事長討論的問題,我先跟你竊提一下。就對於這個"},{"start":64.249,"end":83.892,"text":"目前整體的調薪3個百分點可能對現在整體的物價上漲軍公交人員真的是有非常大的這個生活上的疑慮我們舉例來講現在我們整個這個物價指數來看整個物價指數來看我們"},{"start":94.565,"end":100.947,"text":"110年4月份的時候指數是99.35然後到112年4月的時候兩年之間現在100到去年的4月是105.11那上漲了5.8百分之5.8但是呢我們現在調薪3%的話等於是變相讓我們的公務員生活得更加艱困"},{"start":124.029,"end":138.034,"text":"少了2.8個百分點就是他加薪不是對他有獎勵還是對他能夠改善他的生活反而是追不上物價的上漲我想人事長這部分有什麼看法沒有"},{"start":139.634,"end":155.734,"text":"我謝謝委員。事實上在上次的業務報告裡面也有提到請我們針對挑釁的部分去做法制化。事實上我們在法制化的研議的過程中,其中一種方式就是搭著那個CPI一起走。"},{"start":156.255,"end":180.536,"text":"然後再加上整個政府財政的考量那事實上因為這個是我們幕僚單位初步擬了兩個方案到時候我們會邀請一些專家、協者還有一些民間的甚至委員所提的基層的公教人員大家一起來討論看看這樣的一個調整等於就是加CPI、加照會啦那個不只是這樣子"},{"start":181.738,"end":209.661,"text":"我想這個人事長我們為什麼要來探討這個問題如果國家一流的人才這些大專院校的畢業生、碩博士生學校畢業以後他的選擇的方式未來就業的方式有非常多種士農工商嘛但是他如果考慮要優先到政府部門來服務的時候參加我們的高普考等等"},{"start":210.93,"end":233.882,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":235.418,"end":258.941,"text":"把最好的人才能夠為政府所網羅我想這是人事長啊你肩膀上責無旁貸的責任必須要這樣的誘因才會讓更多的優秀的這些青年學子這些人才願意走向政府我們看一下一些比較強大的國家他一流人才都比較願意進入政府"},{"start":260.7,"end":279.75,"text":"所以是不是我們看一下蔡總統過去對於繼承勞工的部分他們說要照顧繼承勞工不只要民生物價的指數還要參考還要參考這個我們的GDP的漲幅的二分之一"},{"start":280.646,"end":305.866,"text":"那如果這樣子算起來的話真的是差很多就是說蔡總統確實有照顧他的方向是要對我們基層勞工能夠啊有所多所幫助但是我們回想緩頭過來思考那對我們的軍公教反而是次要的甚至是不必要關注的人事長有什麼想法"},{"start":307.232,"end":335.788,"text":"事實上我們過去這幾年事實上我們很在乎到公部門來服務第一個除了待遇要好然後福利也要不差另外還有一個事實上很多人選擇到公部門服務就是因為他要去有一些成就感的問題因為在公部門服務事實上可以幫整個國家社會做更多的事情那剛才委員指教的就是說除了CPI以外"},{"start":336.288,"end":336.408,"text":"謝謝人事長"},{"start":362.034,"end":379.731,"text":"如果你們願意重新來看待這個事情找到一個可以平衡的方式本席是比較樂見不要把它當作說軍公教永遠就是沉默的一群永遠就是應該要吃苦耐勞然後為政府來承擔然後又不受到照顧的一群我們舉例來講剛剛"},{"start":383.22,"end":402.074,"text":"本席已經提到了物價指數是5.8個百分點兩年當中上升了5.8個百分點但是我們調新3%等於變4%等於我們變相的可扣他們1.8個百分點那我們再過來再看如果是用這個民生物價指數來看的話"},{"start":404.058,"end":421.285,"text":"一百一十年兩年一百一十年是九十九點一四一百一十二年的四月已經到一百一十一點一一總共上漲十二個百分點如果我們只調四趴他們真的很難生活差了八個百分點"},{"start":422.546,"end":447.461,"text":"所以如果我們的計算公式已經失真失靈沒有辦法確實反映到現在的生活物價水平還有民生的必需品這些生活水平真的以後我們公交人員真的不是鐵飯碗是拿一個破飯碗要出去要飯那請問這樣子還有什麼樣的優秀的人才願意進入政府部門"},{"start":449.011,"end":470.369,"text":"所以本席今天提出以後我謝謝我謝謝這個人事長竟然有正面來回應希望你們新的試算的公式要盡快提出來不然哪 全國軍公教有太多的團體會一一到這個人事總處這裡來拜訪因為他們沒有辦法再過生活尤其去年政府超收了3860億超收了這麼多錢"},{"start":475.097,"end":502.777,"text":"但是我們軍工交流人員一樣要過窮苦人的生活這個對他們是不公平的所以人事長本席就禁扣您看有什麼樣的什麼樣的這個新的辦法能夠提供出來讓我們大家一起來討論那另外就是不要急後面還有兩分鐘不要急那個我們眾嘉賓"},{"start":503.772,"end":531.474,"text":"主席真的是人才,我聽他諮詢過很多次,真的是人才。可惜在這裡我要特別要跟這個人事長來分析一下,現在這個公務員這個異化的課程啊,怎麼會把轉型正義也納進去。我覺得這個已經確實很不必要做這樣的一個事情。這個尤其你們這個科目啊,"},{"start":533.145,"end":562.074,"text":"這個科目啊你們這個20小時裡面啊10個小時要在網路上來看其實基層的公務員大家都知道嘛要掛線10個小時還在做其他的事情也沒有人在看螢幕啦這個已經現在是一個通亂了你要我連上網10個小時確實我就上網然後我再辦其他的公務也沒有人在看那20個小時還要其他上其他的課程"},{"start":562.907,"end":589.216,"text":"是不是這個已經過分的僵化沒有實質的意義是不是自由報名參加會更加的會更加的適合您思考看看因為這樣得為基層的這些這些公務員又添增他們的困擾添增他們的困擾而且大家也知道嘛在這個過程當中我們今年我們政府有這麼多各自的外線包括"},{"start":590.37,"end":595.992,"text":"2018年4月臺北市政府298萬筆的個資洩漏全區部2019年6月59萬筆的個資洩漏內政部2020年的10月21號、10月25號總共不得了5000多萬筆的資料外洩所以我們現在還要再搞這個議案然後叫公務員已經這麼多的工作的情況之下他們還要搞這個另外拜託"},{"start":619.76,"end":640.465,"text":"轉型正義不要再鬧了好不好這個課程是誰逼你一定要排的你告訴本席本席來幫你平反也沒有關係好不好什麼找楊翠這些真的沒有必要嘛好不好公務員怎麼提升他的工作效率不是比較重要不要又把意識形態搞到公務體系來嘛"},{"start":642.283,"end":657.78,"text":"本來覺得這個人事長你比較沒有這個正式色彩怎麼搞得這麼有爭議的課程對不對又找了這些哇這不得了這個講話都很血腥的哇這個不得了叫做什麼"},{"start":659.246,"end":687.081,"text":"這個哇這個楊翠啊哇這個講的話哇都是說啊什麼沾滿血腥的這個國民黨怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣還可以發言什麼欸不要把這些仇恨值啊帶給我們的公務員讓他們有一個真正行政中立的空間好不好好這課程是不是考慮就把他減免了好不好呃呃謝謝委員只叫我們會跟行政院人選及轉型正義處來反映這樣的事情不是啊"},{"start":687.895,"end":706.808,"text":"我們不反對出轉會要做什麼事情愛聽他的課了到出轉會自己去聽但是人事總處不要強制性做這個工作好,我們來處理愛聽的人去沒有關係但不要強制好不好好,謝謝好,謝謝副總召謝謝蘇仁市長"}]}}}}