{"id":150496,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150496","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5de53cb7c5dcfb65352100ef94a0b7c33f8ba9b0039caa7a6eac46a44ad82f52c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"11:29:03 - 11:40:52","影片長度":"00:11:49","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算(公務預算)解凍案8案。(如未接獲議事處來函，則不予處理或審查)【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-5"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":709,"end_time":"2024-03-27T11:40:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T11:29:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":757,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（11時29分）主席好，有請部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["史部長哲：委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：部長好。關於臺灣某一個戲曲學院的事，在這個禮拜一其實我們開了一個記者會。"],["史部長哲：是，我知道。"],["郭委員昱晴：這是一個案件，其實李師跟王師大概已經將近有20年的時間，長期涉嫌性侵甚至性騷擾學生非常久的一段時間，在性平的部分今年也已經結案了，今年3月的時候其實也確定他們是已經被解聘了，但是這兩個人依舊還是可以提出所謂的申復，雖然可以看到李師雖然已經被解聘，也終身不得擔任教師，但是依舊沒有辦法限制他到其他的相關劇團演出或者是訓練學生，甚至還是有機會可以碰到未成年的學生等等，這個部分其實也是我們非常擔心的。","而另外一位王師，他也跟許多音樂團體的關係非常友好，他在本次的調查過程當中，在二月份，其實他仍然跟著學生一起出國，也擔任所謂獎金補助案的審查委員，甚至將來有可能還會再續任，這對我們來講是何等諷刺的一件事情？","除了教育部以外，我覺得，文化部是不是也能夠針對這種狀況進行規範？如果在劇團或者是在其他表演團體裡碰到類似像這樣子的行為，我們有什麼樣的法規或政策，能夠保障在演出的年輕朋友不要碰到這種劣質的狼師？部長有沒有一個具體的說法？"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝委員。首先跟委員報告，您剛剛提的這兩位並沒有擔任我們的審查委員。"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["史部長哲：我們在去年經過#MeToo事件之後有全面性的檢討137項獎補助要點，都已經加入了違反性平相關規定，得視情節輕重予以撤銷、停止補助或者追回，所以我們會落實這個機制，如果以他們兩位如果擔任主要申請人或者是計畫主持人等等的申請案件，會納入我們的這個制度限制當中。然而我也必須跟向委員坦承，我們的補助機制雖然有這樣的防範措施，但是不可能完全在這個自由的社會裡將他們杜絕。"],["郭委員昱晴：這個我瞭解。"],["史部長哲：我必須要坦承。"],["郭委員昱晴：但是對於很多劇團，是不是也能有一個審核嚴格的機制，得以知道這個老師他過去這些不應該的行為？"],["史部長哲：劇團如果是跟政府申請補助，它的計畫案當中……"],["郭委員昱晴：所以如果沒有跟政府申請補助，表演的劇團其實就不受這個範圍限制嗎？"],["史部長哲：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：所以無法可管？"],["史部長哲：只能說，我們沒有辦法從獎補助牽制的力量來處理。"],["郭委員昱晴：那我們可以藉由什麼樣的力量來牽制呢？有沒有一個嚴密的方法？因為我相信民間的演出團體其實有很多。"],["史部長哲：我們可以把這樣的事件讓劇團知道、提醒它，但是我們沒有辦法強制它。"],["郭委員昱晴：所以這個部分還是有一些遺憾。"],["史部長哲：是的。"],["郭委員昱晴：我們再研擬，好不好？是不是可以把這個部分延伸？因為我相信其實有很多是沒有管道跟政府申請補助表演的劇團，或者他們是透過其他的財團法人來進行這樣子的表演，依舊可以在這樣子的團體當中活躍。就像我剛剛講的，如果他將來還是有機會碰觸到劇團畢業或者戲曲學院畢業的學生，其實這對學生們而言是一個很大的潛在威脅。"],["史部長哲：跟委員報告，這部分我們可能要仔細研究一下，因為確實已經到了一個現在制度上的臨界點。"],["郭委員昱晴：對。"],["史部長哲：因為臺灣是一個法治社會，我們不可能在法律之外……"],["郭委員昱晴：那天開記者會時，我其實感到非常沉重。為什麼他們當年不敢說？是因為迫於老師的權威和校方的漠視，這部分我們要求教育部，但是相對的，離開了教育環境之後，到了所謂的文化界，他們依舊在表演。包含我剛剛說的李姓老師，他在二月份還在性平的調查當中，還是有接受劇團的邀請演出，而且他可能還是擔任要職，這個部分我們是不是也能夠雙方就什麼樣的機制來研議。"],["史部長哲：好，我們來研究一下，看如何強烈地讓這樣的狀況下達。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，謝謝部長。另外一件事，之前在3月1日總質詢的時候，因為時間很短，我就沒辦法有時間可以完整的質詢完這個議題，就是關於所謂資深影視從業人員相關的照顧。我相信部長應該還記得，我當時提到的就是我們應該由主動的關懷取代被動的申請，尤其是在於急難補助跟慰問的作業要點，我們來看一下這個門檻到底有多高。","第一，他必須要身為文化機關或者機構的首長，或者是單位的主管；第二，他必須要是依法設立或者登記文化藝術法人跟團體的負責人；第三，他必須要是文化藝術相關學系的所長，或者是主管以及副教授以上。所以相關的急難救助，剛剛其實培瑜委員也有說到，我們真的在跟時間賽跑。","這些所謂的國寶人士，不論是幕前或者幕後，當他們提出申請急難補助的時候，這些條件的任其中之一項門檻都很高。這個部分，我們是不是有什麼樣的一個具體作為？從我3月1日總質詢到現在，有沒有一個具體的解決方法讓這個門檻能夠再降低一點？"],["史部長哲：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：然後我們再更多的主動關懷。因為一輩子在檯面上演出的這些國寶級人物不見得是受到重視的。"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝委員。我想，正如委員所言，委員在3月1號總質詢之後，事實上主管司已經開始針對績優文化人士急難補助及慰問作業要點開始進行檢討。坦白講，這個需要一點時間，因為這個中央部會相關項目，事實上是需要一點時間。"],["郭委員昱晴：懂。"],["史部長哲：不過基本上是朝向委員所講的，第一個就是流程簡化，第二個就是我們的主動性強化，總而言之就是希望能讓我們的老藝人更感受到政府其實是有在關心他們，我想這個是委員所講的意思。"],["郭委員昱晴：其實不只是藝人，不只是檯面上的從業人員。"],["史部長哲：這可能要給我們一點時間……"],["郭委員昱晴：是，大概多久？"],["史部長哲：我們在簡化確認之前再私下跟委員做說明，好不好？大概再給我們一個月的時間。"],["郭委員昱晴：好。"],["史部長哲：因為有涉及到補助錢的相關要點，還是必須有一個修正作業的程序。"],["郭委員昱晴：是，希望一個月之內可以有一個比較具體的說法，因為畢竟時間不等人。"],["史部長哲：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：急難救助既然是急難，表示是當下就需要，如果再經過嚴格的審查門檻，對他們來講真的也是緩不濟急，真的沒有辦法。","再來就是前一陣子，上個禮拜我們看到獨立書店的問題。關於獨立書店的訪視員跟所謂文化部委外的補助審查委員，我們比較想要瞭解，遴選條件到底是什麼？even他在文章當中寫說他其實是不買書的，但以這樣子的說法，對一般大眾來講是比較不適合擔任訪視員，但是他也真的從事了好幾年。究竟我們對於所謂訪視員的遴選條件是什麼？"],["史部長哲：是，跟委員報告。其實委員講的訪視員，就是我們補助實體書店，實體書店拿了納稅人的錢做為補助之後，我們總是希望補助之後要能夠落實追蹤管考。追蹤管考由誰來擔任呢？其實我們是希望能夠讓民間參與，所謂民間參與就是我們把這個工作委辦給獨立書店協會，獨立書店協會就是我們對於實體書店補助的主要對象，由獨立書店協會提請他們認為適當的訪視員。","訪視員不是什麼高薪的工作，也不是什麼夢幻的工作，就是有一個基本的出席費，到獨立書店的現場，他被稱做訪視顧問也表示他其實是可以作為獨立書店諮詢的對象，本來這樣的制度設計其實基本上是很公平參與，是從下而上的一個好事。"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["史部長哲：讓被補助的協會自己來提它希望接受什麼樣的訪視員，這其實是一個開放政府應該做到最極致的表現，我們只是不曉得會發生這件事情。所以，其實在這之前，我們事實上是沒有想過要從嚴審查，或者是訂定一些比較硬指標的條件。我們希望由獨立書店協會自己提出，應該是最友善的方法。但是發生這件事情之後，我想我們會來檢討啦！"],["郭委員昱晴：其實有很多的獨立書店也為了所謂的補助……我們有聽到其他不同的一些雜音，我覺得獨立書店的審查標準以及能夠達到文化部補助的標準，可能還要再更從嚴審查；對於審查員的資格，我們也應該還要再更審慎。"],["史部長哲：是，所以我說這個事情其實也讓大家滿遺憾跟傷心的嘛！本來是一個政府的美意，也是大家、全民的納稅錢，希望能夠支持營運很困難的獨立書店，而訪視員希望能夠成為他們精進的一個管道，然發生這樣的事情，大家就會覺得未來到底要怎麼遴選呢？這確實很遺憾，所以我們會想辦法來把它精進，好不好？"],["郭委員昱晴：我們另外一方面也要鼓勵我們本土的創作者。"],["史部長哲：當然。"],["郭委員昱晴：其實書本還是必要的，雖然現在大家都會覺得要環保或者是要電子書，可是我也要幫一些所謂本土的、真正在寫書的創作者或者是出版者說話，其實也是要鼓勵他們一下的。"],["史部長哲：創作者跟出版的型態會改變，但是我想到目前為止，獨立書店跟實體出版實體書店的存在還是必要的。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，我們希望很快能夠聽到文化部這邊的一些回應，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["史部長哲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝郭昱晴委員。我們再來請吳春城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","陳秀寳","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","羅廷瑋","葉元之","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林月琴","高金素梅","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅智強"],"page_start":241,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預\n算有關文化部主管預算（公務預算）解凍案8案","agenda_id":"1132201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150496","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150496","tool":"pyannote","id":"150496-pyannote"},"job_id":"cKJlhvQamEwRapS8","queued_at":"2024-06-01 18:41:09","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 18:42:31","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150496"},{"time":"2024-06-01 18:42:32","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5de53cb7c5dcfb65352100ef94a0b7c3334f7e943f50e86df32e7a0c5883758305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 18:42:52","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-01 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\"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 471.297, \"end\": 471.317, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}]}, {\"start\": 471.837, \"end\": 489.876, \"text\": \"一月的時間因為這個相關的有關於這個有涉及到補助錢的問題的這相關的要點它還是有一個修正作業的程序是 那我們希望一個月之內可以有一個比較具體的一個說法因為畢竟其實時間不等人是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 471.837, \"end\": 472.057, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 472.057, \"end\": 472.217, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 472.217, \"end\": 472.798, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 472.798, \"end\": 473.138, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 473.138, \"end\": 473.539, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 473.539, \"end\": 474.019, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 474.019, \"end\": 474.34, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 474.34, \"end\": 475.541, 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{\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 483.489, \"end\": 483.669, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 483.669, \"end\": 483.99, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 483.99, \"end\": 484.25, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 484.25, \"end\": 484.43, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 484.43, \"end\": 484.77, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 484.77, \"end\": 484.951, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 484.951, \"end\": 485.251, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 485.251, \"end\": 485.431, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 485.431, \"end\": 485.671, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 485.671, \"end\": 485.972, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 485.972, \"end\": 486.332, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 486.332, \"end\": 486.452, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 654.468, \"end\": 654.708, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 654.708, \"end\": 654.948, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 654.948, \"end\": 655.529, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 655.529, \"end\": 655.649, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 655.649, \"end\": 655.789, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 655.789, \"end\": 655.909, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 655.909, \"end\": 656.089, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 656.089, \"end\": 656.249, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 656.249, \"end\": 656.75, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 656.75, \"end\": 656.99, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 656.99, \"end\": 657.17, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 657.17, \"end\": 657.33, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 657.33, \"end\": 657.691, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 657.691, \"end\": 657.911, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 657.911, \"end\": 658.812, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 658.812, \"end\": 659.132, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"困\", \"start\": 659.132, \"end\": 659.573, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 659.573, \"end\": 659.693, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"獨\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 659.693, \"end\": 660.053, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"店\", \"start\": 660.053, \"end\": 660.573, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 660.573, \"end\": 661.434, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"訪\"}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 661.434, \"end\": 661.554, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 661.554, \"end\": 661.675, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 661.675, \"end\": 661.935, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 661.935, \"end\": 662.295, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 662.295, \"end\": 662.655, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 662.655, \"end\": 662.976, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 662.976, \"end\": 663.376, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 663.376, \"end\": 663.516, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 663.516, \"end\": 663.957, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 663.957, \"end\": 664.217, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 664.217, \"end\": 664.717, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 664.717, \"end\": 664.978, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 664.978, \"end\": 665.078, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 665.078, \"end\": 665.318, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 665.318, \"end\": 665.418, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 665.418, \"end\": 665.578, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 665.578, \"end\": 665.738, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 665.738, \"end\": 665.959, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 665.959, \"end\": 666.119, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 666.119, \"end\": 666.139, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 668.855, \"end\": 668.975, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 668.975, \"end\": 669.115, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 669.115, \"end\": 670.336, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 670.336, \"end\": 670.416, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"８\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 670.416, \"end\": 670.496, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 670.496, \"end\": 670.516, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 670.516, \"end\": 670.676, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 670.676, \"end\": 670.696, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"屆\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 670.696, \"end\": 670.756, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 670.756, \"end\": 670.896, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 670.896, \"end\": 671.016, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 671.016, \"end\": 671.136, \"score\": 0.61}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 671.136, \"end\": 671.757, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 671.757, \"end\": 671.937, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 671.937, \"end\": 672.817, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 672.817, \"end\": 672.917, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 672.917, \"end\": 673.118, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"史\", \"start\": 673.118, \"end\": 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,998 --> 00:00:02,798\n請部長好有請部長委員好部長好部長這個禮拜一其實我們開了一個記者會那是關於臺灣某一個戲曲學院的一個案件那當然其實這個李師跟王師他們是長期大概將近快要有20年的一個時間涉嫌性侵甚至性騷擾這個學生\n\n2\n00:00:29,764 --> 00:00:31,065\n三月的時候其實也確定他們是已經被解聘了但是這兩個人依舊還是可以提出所謂的身負那當然其實我們也會比較擔心\n\n3\n00:00:47,397 --> 00:01:06,252\n雖然可以看到這個理事雖然已經被解聘終生也不得擔任教師但是他依舊沒有辦法限制他到其他的相關劇團去演出或者是訓練學生甚至還是有機會可以碰到未成年的學生等等\n\n4\n00:01:07,473 --> 00:01:09,134\n二月份其實他也跟著所謂的學生一起出國。\n\n5\n00:01:26,829 --> 00:01:53,352\n那這個部分也擔任所謂的獎金的補助案的一個審查的委員將來有可能還會再續任那這對我們來講其實是何等諷刺的一件事情除了教育部以外我覺得文化部這個部分是不是也能夠針對所謂如果在劇團或者是在其他的一些表演團體碰到類似像這樣子的一個狀況我們有什麼樣的一個法規什麼樣的一個政策能夠保障\n\n6\n00:01:54,153 --> 00:02:15,037\n在演出的這些年輕朋友不要碰到這種劣質的狼狮有沒有一個具體的一個說法好謝謝委員行政院跟委員報告就是說我們剛剛提的這兩位他並沒有擔任我們的審查委員是那我們在去年經過metoo事件之後我們全面性的檢討我們137項的獎補助要點\n\n7\n00:02:19,315 --> 00:02:40,270\n都已經加入了違反性平相關規定得釋情節輕重與撤銷停止補助或者是追悔所以我們會落實這個機制那以他們兩位如果擔任主要申請人或者是計畫主持人的等等的申請案件這個我們會納入我們的這個制度當中但是我也必須跟委員坦承\n\n8\n00:02:41,010 --> 00:03:03,587\n我們的補助機制雖然有這樣的防範機制但是我們不可能把它完全杜絕在這個自由的社會裡面啦這個我了解但是是怎麼能夠讓很多的劇團他們怎麼樣的一個機制是不是也有一個審核嚴格的一個機制來知道這個老師他過去的一些所謂的這麼不應該的一些行為\n\n9\n00:03:04,728 --> 00:03:17,124\n這個劇團如果是跟政府申請補助他的計劃案當中所以他如果沒有跟政府申請補助表演的劇團其實就沒有這個限制跟範圍嗎?是所以無法可管\n\n10\n00:03:18,231 --> 00:03:39,058\n只能說我們沒有辦法從蔣補助的這樣子的牽制的力量來處理那我們可以藉由什麼樣的力量來牽制呢?有沒有一個研擬的方法?因為我相信民間的演出的團體其實很多我們可以把這樣的事件讓劇團知道提醒他但是我們沒有辦法強制他\n\n11\n00:03:40,856 --> 00:04:05,931\n所以這個部分還是有一些遺憾是的我們再演你好不好我們其實是不是可以把這個部分能夠延伸因為我相信其實有很多是沒有管到跟政府來申請補助表演的一個劇團或者是說他們其實是透過其他的一些財團法人來做這樣子的一個表演他依舊可以在這樣子的團體當中活躍那就像我剛剛講的\n\n12\n00:04:06,952 --> 00:04:20,807\n若他將來還是有機會碰觸到所謂的劇團畢業或者是戲劇學院畢業的學生其實這對他們來講是一個很大的潛在的一個威脅我想跟委員報告我想這個我們可能要來\n\n13\n00:04:23,136 --> 00:04:44,352\n來仔細研究一下因為這個確實已經到了一個我們現在制度上的臨界點對因為台灣是一個法治社會我不可能在法律之外因為那天其實開了記者會我其實是非常沉重的因為為什麼他們當年不敢說是因為迫於老師的權威跟校方的漠視\n\n14\n00:04:45,473 --> 00:05:12,027\n所以其實在這個部分當然我們要求教育部但是我們相對的其實他們離開了教育環境之後到了所謂的文化界他們依舊在表演那包含我剛剛說的李信老師他在2月份其實還在信評的調查當中他其實還是有接受劇團的邀請的演出他可能還是擔任要職那這個部分我們是不是也能夠雙方我們看就什麼樣的我們來研究一下看怎麼樣更比較\n\n15\n00:05:13,768 --> 00:05:26,739\n強烈的能夠來讓這樣子的一個狀況下打啦好不好謝謝部長好那另外一個其實就是我之前在3月1號我總質詢的時候其實因為時間很短我們就沒有辦法有時間可以完整的這個質詢完這個議題喔就是關於所謂的資深影視從業人員相關的照顧那當時其實我相信部長應該還記得我們我提到的本席提到的就是我們應該有主動的關懷\n\n16\n00:05:43,152 --> 00:05:51,601\n而取代所謂的被動的申請尤其是在於所謂的這個他們急難補助跟慰問的作業的要點的這個部分的門檻那我們來看一下這個門檻到底有多高那我想這個部分包含第一他要文化機關或者是機構的首長或者單位的主管\n\n17\n00:06:04,534 --> 00:06:15,942\n二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及\n\n18\n00:06:28,811 --> 00:06:41,634\n當他們提出急難補助的時候等這些條件的其中之一項這個天花板其實門檻是很高的啦那這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的一個具體的作為從3月1號我總諮詢到現在我們有沒有一個具體的一個解決的方法讓這個門檻能夠再降低一點\n\n19\n00:06:48,536 --> 00:06:51,558\n三月1日後,我們事實上主管司已經開始針對激憂文化人士急難補助及慰問助益要點開始進行檢討了。\n\n20\n00:07:12,851 --> 00:07:13,951\n中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算\n\n21\n00:07:28,849 --> 00:07:51,317\n總而言之就是希望說讓我們的老藝人能夠更感受到政府其實是有在關心他們我想這個是委員所講的其實不只是藝人不只是這個檯面上的從業人員這可能是不是再給我們一點時間我們在簡化這個確認之前我們在私下跟委員做一個說明好不好大概再給我們一個月的時間\n\n22\n00:07:51,837 --> 00:08:09,876\n一月的時間因為這個相關的有關於這個有涉及到補助錢的問題的這相關的要點它還是有一個修正作業的程序是那我們希望一個月之內可以有一個比較具體的一個說法因為畢竟其實時間不等人是\n\n23\n00:08:10,256 --> 00:08:26,667\n那我相信急難救助既然是急難表示是當下就需要如果再經過這個嚴格的審查的門檻對他們來講其實真的也是緩不及急真的沒有辦法好那再來就是前一陣子大概上個禮拜五我們看到的就是獨立書店的一個問題那其實這個獨立書店的訪視員跟這個所謂的你們委外的這個補助審查委員\n\n24\n00:08:36,033 --> 00:08:58,710\n我們比較想要了解的到底他的遴選條件是什麼?即使他出了這樣子的一個在他文章當中寫說他其實是不買書的但是以這樣子的一個說法當然是比較對一般大眾來講是比較不適任去擔任這個訪視員但是他也真的從事了好幾年那究竟我們對於所謂的這個訪視員的遴選的條件是什麼?\n\n25\n00:09:01,215 --> 00:09:20,424\n是,跟委員報告,其實委員講的紡釋源其實就是我們實體書店補助嘛。實體書店拿了納稅人的錢補助之後,我們總是希望補助之後要能夠落實追蹤管考。那這個追蹤管考由誰來擔任呢?其實我們就會想說能夠讓民間來參與。所以民間參與就是說我們把這個工作委辦給獨立書店協會。獨立書店協會就是我們實體書店補助的主要的對象嘛。\n\n26\n00:09:27,748 --> 00:09:54,480\n由獨立書店協會他們來提請他們認為適當的訪試員訪試員不是什麼高薪的工作也不是什麼夢幻的工作他基本上就是一個基本的出席費然後要去到獨立書店的現場那他被叫做訪試顧問也表示說他其實可以作為獨立書店他可以諮詢的一個對象那本來這樣的制度設計其實基本上是很公平參與從下而上的一個好事讓\n\n27\n00:09:56,241 --> 00:10:15,986\n被補助的公協會自己來提他希望接受什麼樣的訪視員這其實是一個開放政府應該是最極致的表現我們只是不曉得說會發生這個事情所以說其實在這個事情之前我們事實上是沒有想過說要重演審查或者是一些比較硬指標的條件我們想說由獨立書店協會來提\n\n28\n00:10:18,431 --> 00:10:42,589\n應該是對友善的方法嘛但是發生這個事情之後我想我們會來檢討啦這個因為其實有很多的獨立書店也為了所謂的補助其實我們其實有聽到其他不同的一些雜音啦那我覺得就是獨立書店的一個審查的標準跟他能夠達到所謂的這個我們的文化部這邊的一個補助的一個標準我覺得可能還要再更從嚴那對於審查員的資格其實我們應該還要再更審慎\n\n29\n00:10:46,300 --> 00:11:06,139\n是,所以我說這個事情其實也讓大家蠻遺憾跟傷心的嘛就是說本來是一個政府的美意嘛也是大家全民納稅前希望能夠支持很困難的獨立書店那訪視員希望能夠成為一個他們精進的一個管道那發生這樣的事情大家就會覺得說\n\n30\n00:11:08,855 --> 00:11:13,678\n二、處理或審查８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。\n\n31\n00:11:32,188 --> 00:11:32,448\n主席、副部長、主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n998\t2798\t請部長好有請部長委員好部長好部長這個禮拜一其實我們開了一個記者會那是關於臺灣某一個戲曲學院的一個案件那當然其實這個李師跟王師他們是長期大概將近快要有20年的一個時間涉嫌性侵甚至性騷擾這個學生\n29764\t31065\t三月的時候其實也確定他們是已經被解聘了但是這兩個人依舊還是可以提出所謂的身負那當然其實我們也會比較擔心\n47397\t66252\t雖然可以看到這個理事雖然已經被解聘終生也不得擔任教師但是他依舊沒有辦法限制他到其他的相關劇團去演出或者是訓練學生甚至還是有機會可以碰到未成年的學生等等\n67473\t69134\t二月份其實他也跟著所謂的學生一起出國。\n86829\t113352\t那這個部分也擔任所謂的獎金的補助案的一個審查的委員將來有可能還會再續任那這對我們來講其實是何等諷刺的一件事情除了教育部以外我覺得文化部這個部分是不是也能夠針對所謂如果在劇團或者是在其他的一些表演團體碰到類似像這樣子的一個狀況我們有什麼樣的一個法規什麼樣的一個政策能夠保障\n114153\t135037\t在演出的這些年輕朋友不要碰到這種劣質的狼狮有沒有一個具體的一個說法好謝謝委員行政院跟委員報告就是說我們剛剛提的這兩位他並沒有擔任我們的審查委員是那我們在去年經過me too事件之後我們全面性的檢討我們137項的獎補助要點\n139315\t160270\t都已經加入了違反性平相關規定得釋情節輕重與撤銷停止補助或者是追悔所以我們會落實這個機制那以他們兩位如果擔任主要申請人或者是計畫主持人的等等的申請案件這個我們會納入我們的這個制度當中但是我也必須跟委員坦承\n161010\t183587\t我們的補助機制雖然有這樣的防範機制但是我們不可能把它完全杜絕在這個自由的社會裡面啦這個我了解但是是怎麼能夠讓很多的劇團他們怎麼樣的一個機制是不是也有一個審核嚴格的一個機制來知道這個老師他過去的一些所謂的這麼不應該的一些行為\n184728\t197124\t這個劇團如果是跟政府申請補助他的計劃案當中所以他如果沒有跟政府申請補助表演的劇團其實就沒有這個限制跟範圍嗎?是所以無法可管\n198231\t219058\t只能說我們沒有辦法從蔣補助的這樣子的牽制的力量來處理那我們可以藉由什麼樣的力量來牽制呢?有沒有一個研擬的方法?因為我相信民間的演出的團體其實很多我們可以把這樣的事件讓劇團知道提醒他但是我們沒有辦法強制他\n220856\t245931\t所以這個部分還是有一些遺憾是的我們再演你好不好我們其實是不是可以把這個部分能夠延伸因為我相信其實有很多是沒有管到跟政府來申請補助表演的一個劇團或者是說他們其實是透過其他的一些財團法人來做這樣子的一個表演他依舊可以在這樣子的團體當中活躍那就像我剛剛講的\n246952\t260807\t若他將來還是有機會碰觸到所謂的劇團畢業或者是戲劇學院畢業的學生其實這對他們來講是一個很大的潛在的一個威脅我想跟委員報告我想這個我們可能要來\n263136\t284352\t來仔細研究一下因為這個確實已經到了一個我們現在制度上的臨界點對因為台灣是一個法治社會我不可能在法律之外因為那天其實開了記者會我其實是非常沉重的因為為什麼他們當年不敢說是因為迫於老師的權威跟校方的漠視\n285473\t312027\t所以其實在這個部分當然我們要求教育部但是我們相對的其實他們離開了教育環境之後到了所謂的文化界他們依舊在表演那包含我剛剛說的李信老師他在2月份其實還在信評的調查當中他其實還是有接受劇團的邀請的演出他可能還是擔任要職那這個部分我們是不是也能夠雙方我們看就什麼樣的我們來研究一下看怎麼樣更比較\n313768\t326739\t強烈的能夠來讓這樣子的一個狀況下打啦好不好謝謝部長好那另外一個其實就是我之前在3月1號我總質詢的時候其實因為時間很短我們就沒有辦法有時間可以完整的這個質詢完這個議題喔就是關於所謂的資深影視從業人員相關的照顧那當時其實我相信部長應該還記得我們我提到的本席提到的就是我們應該有主動的關懷\n343152\t351601\t而取代所謂的被動的申請尤其是在於所謂的這個他們急難補助跟慰問的作業的要點的這個部分的門檻那我們來看一下這個門檻到底有多高那我想這個部分包含第一他要文化機關或者是機構的首長或者單位的主管\n364534\t375942\t二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人 二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及\n388811\t401634\t當他們提出急難補助的時候等這些條件的其中之一項這個天花板其實門檻是很高的啦那這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的一個具體的作為從3月1號我總諮詢到現在我們有沒有一個具體的一個解決的方法讓這個門檻能夠再降低一點\n408536\t411558\t三月1日後,我們事實上主管司已經開始針對激憂文化人士急難補助及慰問助益要點開始進行檢討了。\n432851\t433951\t中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算\n448849\t471317\t總而言之就是希望說讓我們的老藝人能夠更感受到政府其實是有在關心他們我想這個是委員所講的其實不只是藝人不只是這個檯面上的從業人員這可能是不是再給我們一點時間我們在簡化這個確認之前我們在私下跟委員做一個說明好不好大概再給我們一個月的時間\n471837\t489876\t一月的時間因為這個相關的有關於這個有涉及到補助錢的問題的這相關的要點它還是有一個修正作業的程序是 那我們希望一個月之內可以有一個比較具體的一個說法因為畢竟其實時間不等人是\n490256\t506667\t那我相信急難救助既然是急難表示是當下就需要如果再經過這個嚴格的審查的門檻對他們來講其實真的也是緩不及急真的沒有辦法好那再來就是前一陣子大概上個禮拜五我們看到的就是獨立書店的一個問題那其實這個獨立書店的訪視員跟這個所謂的你們委外的這個補助審查委員\n516033\t538710\t我們比較想要了解的到底他的遴選條件是什麼?即使他出了這樣子的一個在他文章當中寫說他其實是不買書的但是以這樣子的一個說法當然是比較對一般大眾來講是比較不適任去擔任這個訪視員但是他也真的從事了好幾年那究竟我們對於所謂的這個訪視員的遴選的條件是什麼?\n541215\t560424\t是,跟委員報告,其實委員講的紡釋源其實就是我們實體書店補助嘛。實體書店拿了納稅人的錢補助之後,我們總是希望補助之後要能夠落實追蹤管考。那這個追蹤管考由誰來擔任呢?其實我們就會想說能夠讓民間來參與。所以民間參與就是說我們把這個工作委辦給獨立書店協會。獨立書店協會就是我們實體書店補助的主要的對象嘛。\n567748\t594480\t由獨立書店協會他們來提請他們認為適當的訪試員訪試員不是什麼高薪的工作也不是什麼夢幻的工作他基本上就是一個基本的出席費然後要去到獨立書店的現場那他被叫做訪試顧問也表示說他其實可以作為獨立書店他可以諮詢的一個對象那本來這樣的制度設計其實基本上是很公平參與從下而上的一個好事讓\n596241\t615986\t被補助的公協會自己來提他希望接受什麼樣的訪視員這其實是一個開放政府應該是最極致的表現我們只是不曉得說會發生這個事情所以說其實在這個事情之前我們事實上是沒有想過說要重演審查或者是一些比較硬指標的條件我們想說由獨立書店協會來提\n618431\t642589\t應該是對友善的方法嘛但是發生這個事情之後我想我們會來檢討啦這個因為其實有很多的獨立書店也為了所謂的補助其實我們其實有聽到其他不同的一些雜音啦那我覺得就是獨立書店的一個審查的標準跟他能夠達到所謂的這個我們的文化部這邊的一個補助的一個標準我覺得可能還要再更從嚴那對於審查員的資格其實我們應該還要再更審慎\n646300\t666139\t是,所以我說這個事情其實也讓大家蠻遺憾跟傷心的嘛就是說本來是一個政府的美意嘛也是大家全民納稅前希望能夠支持很困難的獨立書店那訪視員希望能夠成為一個他們精進的一個管道那發生這樣的事情大家就會覺得說\n668855\t673678\t二、處理或審查 ８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。\n692188\t692448\t主席、副部長、主席\n","txt":"請部長好有請部長委員好部長好部長這個禮拜一其實我們開了一個記者會那是關於臺灣某一個戲曲學院的一個案件那當然其實這個李師跟王師他們是長期大概將近快要有20年的一個時間涉嫌性侵甚至性騷擾這個學生\n三月的時候其實也確定他們是已經被解聘了但是這兩個人依舊還是可以提出所謂的身負那當然其實我們也會比較擔心\n雖然可以看到這個理事雖然已經被解聘終生也不得擔任教師但是他依舊沒有辦法限制他到其他的相關劇團去演出或者是訓練學生甚至還是有機會可以碰到未成年的學生等等\n二月份其實他也跟著所謂的學生一起出國。\n那這個部分也擔任所謂的獎金的補助案的一個審查的委員將來有可能還會再續任那這對我們來講其實是何等諷刺的一件事情除了教育部以外我覺得文化部這個部分是不是也能夠針對所謂如果在劇團或者是在其他的一些表演團體碰到類似像這樣子的一個狀況我們有什麼樣的一個法規什麼樣的一個政策能夠保障\n在演出的這些年輕朋友不要碰到這種劣質的狼狮有沒有一個具體的一個說法好謝謝委員行政院跟委員報告就是說我們剛剛提的這兩位他並沒有擔任我們的審查委員是那我們在去年經過me too事件之後我們全面性的檢討我們137項的獎補助要點\n都已經加入了違反性平相關規定得釋情節輕重與撤銷停止補助或者是追悔所以我們會落實這個機制那以他們兩位如果擔任主要申請人或者是計畫主持人的等等的申請案件這個我們會納入我們的這個制度當中但是我也必須跟委員坦承\n我們的補助機制雖然有這樣的防範機制但是我們不可能把它完全杜絕在這個自由的社會裡面啦這個我了解但是是怎麼能夠讓很多的劇團他們怎麼樣的一個機制是不是也有一個審核嚴格的一個機制來知道這個老師他過去的一些所謂的這麼不應該的一些行為\n這個劇團如果是跟政府申請補助他的計劃案當中所以他如果沒有跟政府申請補助表演的劇團其實就沒有這個限制跟範圍嗎?是所以無法可管\n只能說我們沒有辦法從蔣補助的這樣子的牽制的力量來處理那我們可以藉由什麼樣的力量來牽制呢?有沒有一個研擬的方法?因為我相信民間的演出的團體其實很多我們可以把這樣的事件讓劇團知道提醒他但是我們沒有辦法強制他\n所以這個部分還是有一些遺憾是的我們再演你好不好我們其實是不是可以把這個部分能夠延伸因為我相信其實有很多是沒有管到跟政府來申請補助表演的一個劇團或者是說他們其實是透過其他的一些財團法人來做這樣子的一個表演他依舊可以在這樣子的團體當中活躍那就像我剛剛講的\n若他將來還是有機會碰觸到所謂的劇團畢業或者是戲劇學院畢業的學生其實這對他們來講是一個很大的潛在的一個威脅我想跟委員報告我想這個我們可能要來\n來仔細研究一下因為這個確實已經到了一個我們現在制度上的臨界點對因為台灣是一個法治社會我不可能在法律之外因為那天其實開了記者會我其實是非常沉重的因為為什麼他們當年不敢說是因為迫於老師的權威跟校方的漠視\n所以其實在這個部分當然我們要求教育部但是我們相對的其實他們離開了教育環境之後到了所謂的文化界他們依舊在表演那包含我剛剛說的李信老師他在2月份其實還在信評的調查當中他其實還是有接受劇團的邀請的演出他可能還是擔任要職那這個部分我們是不是也能夠雙方我們看就什麼樣的我們來研究一下看怎麼樣更比較\n強烈的能夠來讓這樣子的一個狀況下打啦好不好謝謝部長好那另外一個其實就是我之前在3月1號我總質詢的時候其實因為時間很短我們就沒有辦法有時間可以完整的這個質詢完這個議題喔就是關於所謂的資深影視從業人員相關的照顧那當時其實我相信部長應該還記得我們我提到的本席提到的就是我們應該有主動的關懷\n而取代所謂的被動的申請尤其是在於所謂的這個他們急難補助跟慰問的作業的要點的這個部分的門檻那我們來看一下這個門檻到底有多高那我想這個部分包含第一他要文化機關或者是機構的首長或者單位的主管\n二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人 二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及\n當他們提出急難補助的時候等這些條件的其中之一項這個天花板其實門檻是很高的啦那這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的一個具體的作為從3月1號我總諮詢到現在我們有沒有一個具體的一個解決的方法讓這個門檻能夠再降低一點\n三月1日後,我們事實上主管司已經開始針對激憂文化人士急難補助及慰問助益要點開始進行檢討了。\n中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算\n總而言之就是希望說讓我們的老藝人能夠更感受到政府其實是有在關心他們我想這個是委員所講的其實不只是藝人不只是這個檯面上的從業人員這可能是不是再給我們一點時間我們在簡化這個確認之前我們在私下跟委員做一個說明好不好大概再給我們一個月的時間\n一月的時間因為這個相關的有關於這個有涉及到補助錢的問題的這相關的要點它還是有一個修正作業的程序是 那我們希望一個月之內可以有一個比較具體的一個說法因為畢竟其實時間不等人是\n那我相信急難救助既然是急難表示是當下就需要如果再經過這個嚴格的審查的門檻對他們來講其實真的也是緩不及急真的沒有辦法好那再來就是前一陣子大概上個禮拜五我們看到的就是獨立書店的一個問題那其實這個獨立書店的訪視員跟這個所謂的你們委外的這個補助審查委員\n我們比較想要了解的到底他的遴選條件是什麼?即使他出了這樣子的一個在他文章當中寫說他其實是不買書的但是以這樣子的一個說法當然是比較對一般大眾來講是比較不適任去擔任這個訪視員但是他也真的從事了好幾年那究竟我們對於所謂的這個訪視員的遴選的條件是什麼?\n是,跟委員報告,其實委員講的紡釋源其實就是我們實體書店補助嘛。實體書店拿了納稅人的錢補助之後,我們總是希望補助之後要能夠落實追蹤管考。那這個追蹤管考由誰來擔任呢?其實我們就會想說能夠讓民間來參與。所以民間參與就是說我們把這個工作委辦給獨立書店協會。獨立書店協會就是我們實體書店補助的主要的對象嘛。\n由獨立書店協會他們來提請他們認為適當的訪試員訪試員不是什麼高薪的工作也不是什麼夢幻的工作他基本上就是一個基本的出席費然後要去到獨立書店的現場那他被叫做訪試顧問也表示說他其實可以作為獨立書店他可以諮詢的一個對象那本來這樣的制度設計其實基本上是很公平參與從下而上的一個好事讓\n被補助的公協會自己來提他希望接受什麼樣的訪視員這其實是一個開放政府應該是最極致的表現我們只是不曉得說會發生這個事情所以說其實在這個事情之前我們事實上是沒有想過說要重演審查或者是一些比較硬指標的條件我們想說由獨立書店協會來提\n應該是對友善的方法嘛但是發生這個事情之後我想我們會來檢討啦這個因為其實有很多的獨立書店也為了所謂的補助其實我們其實有聽到其他不同的一些雜音啦那我覺得就是獨立書店的一個審查的標準跟他能夠達到所謂的這個我們的文化部這邊的一個補助的一個標準我覺得可能還要再更從嚴那對於審查員的資格其實我們應該還要再更審慎\n是,所以我說這個事情其實也讓大家蠻遺憾跟傷心的嘛就是說本來是一個政府的美意嘛也是大家全民納稅前希望能夠支持很困難的獨立書店那訪視員希望能夠成為一個他們精進的一個管道那發生這樣的事情大家就會覺得說\n二、處理或審查 ８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。\n主席、副部長、主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.998 --> 00:02.798\n請部長好有請部長委員好部長好部長這個禮拜一其實我們開了一個記者會那是關於臺灣某一個戲曲學院的一個案件那當然其實這個李師跟王師他們是長期大概將近快要有20年的一個時間涉嫌性侵甚至性騷擾這個學生\n\n00:29.764 --> 00:31.065\n三月的時候其實也確定他們是已經被解聘了但是這兩個人依舊還是可以提出所謂的身負那當然其實我們也會比較擔心\n\n00:47.397 --> 01:06.252\n雖然可以看到這個理事雖然已經被解聘終生也不得擔任教師但是他依舊沒有辦法限制他到其他的相關劇團去演出或者是訓練學生甚至還是有機會可以碰到未成年的學生等等\n\n01:07.473 --> 01:09.134\n二月份其實他也跟著所謂的學生一起出國。\n\n01:26.829 --> 01:53.352\n那這個部分也擔任所謂的獎金的補助案的一個審查的委員將來有可能還會再續任那這對我們來講其實是何等諷刺的一件事情除了教育部以外我覺得文化部這個部分是不是也能夠針對所謂如果在劇團或者是在其他的一些表演團體碰到類似像這樣子的一個狀況我們有什麼樣的一個法規什麼樣的一個政策能夠保障\n\n01:54.153 --> 02:15.037\n在演出的這些年輕朋友不要碰到這種劣質的狼狮有沒有一個具體的一個說法好謝謝委員行政院跟委員報告就是說我們剛剛提的這兩位他並沒有擔任我們的審查委員是那我們在去年經過metoo事件之後我們全面性的檢討我們137項的獎補助要點\n\n02:19.315 --> 02:40.270\n都已經加入了違反性平相關規定得釋情節輕重與撤銷停止補助或者是追悔所以我們會落實這個機制那以他們兩位如果擔任主要申請人或者是計畫主持人的等等的申請案件這個我們會納入我們的這個制度當中但是我也必須跟委員坦承\n\n02:41.010 --> 03:03.587\n我們的補助機制雖然有這樣的防範機制但是我們不可能把它完全杜絕在這個自由的社會裡面啦這個我了解但是是怎麼能夠讓很多的劇團他們怎麼樣的一個機制是不是也有一個審核嚴格的一個機制來知道這個老師他過去的一些所謂的這麼不應該的一些行為\n\n03:04.728 --> 03:17.124\n這個劇團如果是跟政府申請補助他的計劃案當中所以他如果沒有跟政府申請補助表演的劇團其實就沒有這個限制跟範圍嗎?是所以無法可管\n\n03:18.231 --> 03:39.058\n只能說我們沒有辦法從蔣補助的這樣子的牽制的力量來處理那我們可以藉由什麼樣的力量來牽制呢?有沒有一個研擬的方法?因為我相信民間的演出的團體其實很多我們可以把這樣的事件讓劇團知道提醒他但是我們沒有辦法強制他\n\n03:40.856 --> 04:05.931\n所以這個部分還是有一些遺憾是的我們再演你好不好我們其實是不是可以把這個部分能夠延伸因為我相信其實有很多是沒有管到跟政府來申請補助表演的一個劇團或者是說他們其實是透過其他的一些財團法人來做這樣子的一個表演他依舊可以在這樣子的團體當中活躍那就像我剛剛講的\n\n04:06.952 --> 04:20.807\n若他將來還是有機會碰觸到所謂的劇團畢業或者是戲劇學院畢業的學生其實這對他們來講是一個很大的潛在的一個威脅我想跟委員報告我想這個我們可能要來\n\n04:23.136 --> 04:44.352\n來仔細研究一下因為這個確實已經到了一個我們現在制度上的臨界點對因為台灣是一個法治社會我不可能在法律之外因為那天其實開了記者會我其實是非常沉重的因為為什麼他們當年不敢說是因為迫於老師的權威跟校方的漠視\n\n04:45.473 --> 05:12.027\n所以其實在這個部分當然我們要求教育部但是我們相對的其實他們離開了教育環境之後到了所謂的文化界他們依舊在表演那包含我剛剛說的李信老師他在2月份其實還在信評的調查當中他其實還是有接受劇團的邀請的演出他可能還是擔任要職那這個部分我們是不是也能夠雙方我們看就什麼樣的我們來研究一下看怎麼樣更比較\n\n05:13.768 --> 05:26.739\n強烈的能夠來讓這樣子的一個狀況下打啦好不好謝謝部長好那另外一個其實就是我之前在3月1號我總質詢的時候其實因為時間很短我們就沒有辦法有時間可以完整的這個質詢完這個議題喔就是關於所謂的資深影視從業人員相關的照顧那當時其實我相信部長應該還記得我們我提到的本席提到的就是我們應該有主動的關懷\n\n05:43.152 --> 05:51.601\n而取代所謂的被動的申請尤其是在於所謂的這個他們急難補助跟慰問的作業的要點的這個部分的門檻那我們來看一下這個門檻到底有多高那我想這個部分包含第一他要文化機關或者是機構的首長或者單位的主管\n\n06:04.534 --> 06:15.942\n二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及\n\n06:28.811 --> 06:41.634\n當他們提出急難補助的時候等這些條件的其中之一項這個天花板其實門檻是很高的啦那這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的一個具體的作為從3月1號我總諮詢到現在我們有沒有一個具體的一個解決的方法讓這個門檻能夠再降低一點\n\n06:48.536 --> 06:51.558\n三月1日後,我們事實上主管司已經開始針對激憂文化人士急難補助及慰問助益要點開始進行檢討了。\n\n07:12.851 --> 07:13.951\n中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算\n\n07:28.849 --> 07:51.317\n總而言之就是希望說讓我們的老藝人能夠更感受到政府其實是有在關心他們我想這個是委員所講的其實不只是藝人不只是這個檯面上的從業人員這可能是不是再給我們一點時間我們在簡化這個確認之前我們在私下跟委員做一個說明好不好大概再給我們一個月的時間\n\n07:51.837 --> 08:09.876\n一月的時間因為這個相關的有關於這個有涉及到補助錢的問題的這相關的要點它還是有一個修正作業的程序是那我們希望一個月之內可以有一個比較具體的一個說法因為畢竟其實時間不等人是\n\n08:10.256 --> 08:26.667\n那我相信急難救助既然是急難表示是當下就需要如果再經過這個嚴格的審查的門檻對他們來講其實真的也是緩不及急真的沒有辦法好那再來就是前一陣子大概上個禮拜五我們看到的就是獨立書店的一個問題那其實這個獨立書店的訪視員跟這個所謂的你們委外的這個補助審查委員\n\n08:36.033 --> 08:58.710\n我們比較想要了解的到底他的遴選條件是什麼?即使他出了這樣子的一個在他文章當中寫說他其實是不買書的但是以這樣子的一個說法當然是比較對一般大眾來講是比較不適任去擔任這個訪視員但是他也真的從事了好幾年那究竟我們對於所謂的這個訪視員的遴選的條件是什麼?\n\n09:01.215 --> 09:20.424\n是,跟委員報告,其實委員講的紡釋源其實就是我們實體書店補助嘛。實體書店拿了納稅人的錢補助之後,我們總是希望補助之後要能夠落實追蹤管考。那這個追蹤管考由誰來擔任呢?其實我們就會想說能夠讓民間來參與。所以民間參與就是說我們把這個工作委辦給獨立書店協會。獨立書店協會就是我們實體書店補助的主要的對象嘛。\n\n09:27.748 --> 09:54.480\n由獨立書店協會他們來提請他們認為適當的訪試員訪試員不是什麼高薪的工作也不是什麼夢幻的工作他基本上就是一個基本的出席費然後要去到獨立書店的現場那他被叫做訪試顧問也表示說他其實可以作為獨立書店他可以諮詢的一個對象那本來這樣的制度設計其實基本上是很公平參與從下而上的一個好事讓\n\n09:56.241 --> 10:15.986\n被補助的公協會自己來提他希望接受什麼樣的訪視員這其實是一個開放政府應該是最極致的表現我們只是不曉得說會發生這個事情所以說其實在這個事情之前我們事實上是沒有想過說要重演審查或者是一些比較硬指標的條件我們想說由獨立書店協會來提\n\n10:18.431 --> 10:42.589\n應該是對友善的方法嘛但是發生這個事情之後我想我們會來檢討啦這個因為其實有很多的獨立書店也為了所謂的補助其實我們其實有聽到其他不同的一些雜音啦那我覺得就是獨立書店的一個審查的標準跟他能夠達到所謂的這個我們的文化部這邊的一個補助的一個標準我覺得可能還要再更從嚴那對於審查員的資格其實我們應該還要再更審慎\n\n10:46.300 --> 11:06.139\n是,所以我說這個事情其實也讓大家蠻遺憾跟傷心的嘛就是說本來是一個政府的美意嘛也是大家全民納稅前希望能夠支持很困難的獨立書店那訪視員希望能夠成為一個他們精進的一個管道那發生這樣的事情大家就會覺得說\n\n11:08.855 --> 11:13.678\n二、處理或審查８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。\n\n11:32.188 --> 11:32.448\n主席、副部長、主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.998,"end":2.798,"text":"請部長好有請部長委員好部長好部長這個禮拜一其實我們開了一個記者會那是關於臺灣某一個戲曲學院的一個案件那當然其實這個李師跟王師他們是長期大概將近快要有20年的一個時間涉嫌性侵甚至性騷擾這個學生"},{"start":29.764,"end":31.065,"text":"三月的時候其實也確定他們是已經被解聘了但是這兩個人依舊還是可以提出所謂的身負那當然其實我們也會比較擔心"},{"start":47.397,"end":66.252,"text":"雖然可以看到這個理事雖然已經被解聘終生也不得擔任教師但是他依舊沒有辦法限制他到其他的相關劇團去演出或者是訓練學生甚至還是有機會可以碰到未成年的學生等等"},{"start":67.473,"end":69.134,"text":"二月份其實他也跟著所謂的學生一起出國。"},{"start":86.829,"end":113.352,"text":"那這個部分也擔任所謂的獎金的補助案的一個審查的委員將來有可能還會再續任那這對我們來講其實是何等諷刺的一件事情除了教育部以外我覺得文化部這個部分是不是也能夠針對所謂如果在劇團或者是在其他的一些表演團體碰到類似像這樣子的一個狀況我們有什麼樣的一個法規什麼樣的一個政策能夠保障"},{"start":114.153,"end":135.037,"text":"在演出的這些年輕朋友不要碰到這種劣質的狼狮有沒有一個具體的一個說法好謝謝委員行政院跟委員報告就是說我們剛剛提的這兩位他並沒有擔任我們的審查委員是那我們在去年經過me too事件之後我們全面性的檢討我們137項的獎補助要點"},{"start":139.315,"end":160.27,"text":"都已經加入了違反性平相關規定得釋情節輕重與撤銷停止補助或者是追悔所以我們會落實這個機制那以他們兩位如果擔任主要申請人或者是計畫主持人的等等的申請案件這個我們會納入我們的這個制度當中但是我也必須跟委員坦承"},{"start":161.01,"end":183.587,"text":"我們的補助機制雖然有這樣的防範機制但是我們不可能把它完全杜絕在這個自由的社會裡面啦這個我了解但是是怎麼能夠讓很多的劇團他們怎麼樣的一個機制是不是也有一個審核嚴格的一個機制來知道這個老師他過去的一些所謂的這麼不應該的一些行為"},{"start":184.728,"end":197.124,"text":"這個劇團如果是跟政府申請補助他的計劃案當中所以他如果沒有跟政府申請補助表演的劇團其實就沒有這個限制跟範圍嗎?是所以無法可管"},{"start":198.231,"end":219.058,"text":"只能說我們沒有辦法從蔣補助的這樣子的牽制的力量來處理那我們可以藉由什麼樣的力量來牽制呢?有沒有一個研擬的方法?因為我相信民間的演出的團體其實很多我們可以把這樣的事件讓劇團知道提醒他但是我們沒有辦法強制他"},{"start":220.856,"end":245.931,"text":"所以這個部分還是有一些遺憾是的我們再演你好不好我們其實是不是可以把這個部分能夠延伸因為我相信其實有很多是沒有管到跟政府來申請補助表演的一個劇團或者是說他們其實是透過其他的一些財團法人來做這樣子的一個表演他依舊可以在這樣子的團體當中活躍那就像我剛剛講的"},{"start":246.952,"end":260.807,"text":"若他將來還是有機會碰觸到所謂的劇團畢業或者是戲劇學院畢業的學生其實這對他們來講是一個很大的潛在的一個威脅我想跟委員報告我想這個我們可能要來"},{"start":263.136,"end":284.352,"text":"來仔細研究一下因為這個確實已經到了一個我們現在制度上的臨界點對因為台灣是一個法治社會我不可能在法律之外因為那天其實開了記者會我其實是非常沉重的因為為什麼他們當年不敢說是因為迫於老師的權威跟校方的漠視"},{"start":285.473,"end":312.027,"text":"所以其實在這個部分當然我們要求教育部但是我們相對的其實他們離開了教育環境之後到了所謂的文化界他們依舊在表演那包含我剛剛說的李信老師他在2月份其實還在信評的調查當中他其實還是有接受劇團的邀請的演出他可能還是擔任要職那這個部分我們是不是也能夠雙方我們看就什麼樣的我們來研究一下看怎麼樣更比較"},{"start":313.768,"end":326.739,"text":"強烈的能夠來讓這樣子的一個狀況下打啦好不好謝謝部長好那另外一個其實就是我之前在3月1號我總質詢的時候其實因為時間很短我們就沒有辦法有時間可以完整的這個質詢完這個議題喔就是關於所謂的資深影視從業人員相關的照顧那當時其實我相信部長應該還記得我們我提到的本席提到的就是我們應該有主動的關懷"},{"start":343.152,"end":351.601,"text":"而取代所謂的被動的申請尤其是在於所謂的這個他們急難補助跟慰問的作業的要點的這個部分的門檻那我們來看一下這個門檻到底有多高那我想這個部分包含第一他要文化機關或者是機構的首長或者單位的主管"},{"start":364.534,"end":375.942,"text":"二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人 二、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及團體負責人三、設立或登記文化藝術法人及"},{"start":388.811,"end":401.634,"text":"當他們提出急難補助的時候等這些條件的其中之一項這個天花板其實門檻是很高的啦那這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的一個具體的作為從3月1號我總諮詢到現在我們有沒有一個具體的一個解決的方法讓這個門檻能夠再降低一點"},{"start":408.536,"end":411.558,"text":"三月1日後,我們事實上主管司已經開始針對激憂文化人士急難補助及慰問助益要點開始進行檢討了。"},{"start":432.851,"end":433.951,"text":"中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算"},{"start":448.849,"end":471.317,"text":"總而言之就是希望說讓我們的老藝人能夠更感受到政府其實是有在關心他們我想這個是委員所講的其實不只是藝人不只是這個檯面上的從業人員這可能是不是再給我們一點時間我們在簡化這個確認之前我們在私下跟委員做一個說明好不好大概再給我們一個月的時間"},{"start":471.837,"end":489.876,"text":"一月的時間因為這個相關的有關於這個有涉及到補助錢的問題的這相關的要點它還是有一個修正作業的程序是 那我們希望一個月之內可以有一個比較具體的一個說法因為畢竟其實時間不等人是"},{"start":490.256,"end":506.667,"text":"那我相信急難救助既然是急難表示是當下就需要如果再經過這個嚴格的審查的門檻對他們來講其實真的也是緩不及急真的沒有辦法好那再來就是前一陣子大概上個禮拜五我們看到的就是獨立書店的一個問題那其實這個獨立書店的訪視員跟這個所謂的你們委外的這個補助審查委員"},{"start":516.033,"end":538.71,"text":"我們比較想要了解的到底他的遴選條件是什麼?即使他出了這樣子的一個在他文章當中寫說他其實是不買書的但是以這樣子的一個說法當然是比較對一般大眾來講是比較不適任去擔任這個訪視員但是他也真的從事了好幾年那究竟我們對於所謂的這個訪視員的遴選的條件是什麼?"},{"start":541.215,"end":560.424,"text":"是,跟委員報告,其實委員講的紡釋源其實就是我們實體書店補助嘛。實體書店拿了納稅人的錢補助之後,我們總是希望補助之後要能夠落實追蹤管考。那這個追蹤管考由誰來擔任呢?其實我們就會想說能夠讓民間來參與。所以民間參與就是說我們把這個工作委辦給獨立書店協會。獨立書店協會就是我們實體書店補助的主要的對象嘛。"},{"start":567.748,"end":594.48,"text":"由獨立書店協會他們來提請他們認為適當的訪試員訪試員不是什麼高薪的工作也不是什麼夢幻的工作他基本上就是一個基本的出席費然後要去到獨立書店的現場那他被叫做訪試顧問也表示說他其實可以作為獨立書店他可以諮詢的一個對象那本來這樣的制度設計其實基本上是很公平參與從下而上的一個好事讓"},{"start":596.241,"end":615.986,"text":"被補助的公協會自己來提他希望接受什麼樣的訪視員這其實是一個開放政府應該是最極致的表現我們只是不曉得說會發生這個事情所以說其實在這個事情之前我們事實上是沒有想過說要重演審查或者是一些比較硬指標的條件我們想說由獨立書店協會來提"},{"start":618.431,"end":642.589,"text":"應該是對友善的方法嘛但是發生這個事情之後我想我們會來檢討啦這個因為其實有很多的獨立書店也為了所謂的補助其實我們其實有聽到其他不同的一些雜音啦那我覺得就是獨立書店的一個審查的標準跟他能夠達到所謂的這個我們的文化部這邊的一個補助的一個標準我覺得可能還要再更從嚴那對於審查員的資格其實我們應該還要再更審慎"},{"start":646.3,"end":666.139,"text":"是,所以我說這個事情其實也讓大家蠻遺憾跟傷心的嘛就是說本來是一個政府的美意嘛也是大家全民納稅前希望能夠支持很困難的獨立書店那訪視員希望能夠成為一個他們精進的一個管道那發生這樣的事情大家就會覺得說"},{"start":668.855,"end":673.678,"text":"二、處理或審查 ８立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化部部長史哲列席報告業務．並備質詢。"},{"start":692.188,"end":692.448,"text":"主席、副部長、主席"}]}}}}