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\"end\": 488.312, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 488.312, \"end\": 488.412, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"漏\", \"start\": 488.412, \"end\": 488.532, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"洞\", \"start\": 488.532, \"end\": 488.552, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 493.285, \"end\": 493.746, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 493.746, \"end\": 493.846, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 493.846, \"end\": 493.986, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 493.986, \"end\": 494.066, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 494.066, \"end\": 494.086, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,346 --> 00:00:07,688\n主席麻煩請薛部長這一次我們針對這個碳稅的審議委員會審議會開了幾次會議到昨天為止開兩次兩次嗎一次3月15一次3月263月15的會議記錄出來了你有看到嗎\n\n2\n00:00:31,692 --> 00:00:42,986\n呃...剛剛好像另外一位委員有提到然後另外一位委員有提到本期看了3月15的這個會議記錄不用...不用懷疑不用訝異就是一張紙就是一張A4的紙一張A4的紙裡面\n\n3\n00:00:45,734 --> 00:01:05,195\n主席致詞審略委員介紹審略然後報告事項就是兩點告訴大家就是說這個下一次開會的時間以及審議的決議要對外公布以達資訊公開透明但我從頭到尾看不出什麼叫資訊什麼叫公開什麼叫透明沒有啊\n\n4\n00:01:06,109 --> 00:01:23,797\n委員到底發言講了什麼委員裡面有提到什麼以及現在為什麼千呼萬喚還使不出來的碳費我們的到底收益的標準我們一噸多少錢全部都沒有委員有什麼建議政府現在有什麼問題全部都沒有\n\n5\n00:01:24,878 --> 00:01:48,374\n就告訴我們3月15號結論就是3月26再開第二次會那3月26開第二次會看起來也沒有辦法達成費率所以記不記得3個禮拜前一樣本期在這個委員會請教您您當時有講期待什麼時候費率會出來是你有講3月底啊是因為給報告然後\n\n6\n00:01:50,195 --> 00:02:16,593\n那今天有媒體問說520以前新政府上任前有沒有可能因為大家不知道520內閣總辭之後薛部長還在不在當然本席還是希望專業人才任用但重點在於是當一天和尚敲一天鐘你現在你什麼時候出來然後媒體問你說不要以520當成是一個基準點啊那不然要以什麼時候當基準點\n\n7\n00:02:17,939 --> 00:02:34,717\n我想環境部當然希望說碳費費利審議委員會能夠盡快但是我們會告訴他就是說去考量各個層面的因素那黃委員剛剛有挑戰說考量各層面因素包括哪些\n\n8\n00:02:35,390 --> 00:02:54,159\n當然包括企業界他未來的競爭力競爭力競爭力以及國內現在4月電價上漲要不要考慮包括CPICPI要考慮那還有包括什麼事實上是還蠻複雜的因素當然我們也必須呼應環團的期待因為環團覺得說臺灣假如碳費太低\n\n9\n00:03:00,362 --> 00:03:17,402\n對於我們減碳的效果就會很差所以這一點我們把他納進去考量來部長我請教你現在有多少部的部長哪一個部會的部長環境部啊環境部啊你剛剛講CPI也要考慮台電漲價也要考慮企業發展也要考慮\n\n10\n00:03:20,365 --> 00:03:26,569\n我覺得你跨部會了捏經濟部部長都沒有經濟部部長告訴我們說電價漲沒關係啦但是我拜託各位業者不要以電價漲當藉口來漲價啦經濟部長告訴我們是這樣子然後經濟部部長也沒有再去考慮說物價通貨膨脹怎麼樣因為經濟部部長就直接跟所有民眾講說也不會電價漲也不會造成通膨啦\n\n11\n00:03:44,873 --> 00:03:59,969\n結果沒想到反而是我們環境部你的本位你的核心業務照理講你是因應氣候變遷因應2050淨零碳牌到時候是牌是零啊那你現在202好我先請教2025會不會實施碳費會不會實施碳費20252025會不會實施徵收碳費\n\n12\n00:04:07,256 --> 00:04:30,436\n2025會啊會我們會照著這個方向來努力照著這個方向來努力還是會CPI的也是大宴的決定委員會做決議要我們那就考量但是這相對來講這是什麼這是行政部門你各業務單位你要有自己的一個核心出來之後政委還是行政院院長、副院長大家來溝通嘛來處理嘛\n\n13\n00:04:31,096 --> 00:04:43,916\n如果說你現在你就已經在想其他那抱歉那我們在講是說那你有沒有捍衛你自己的環境部的核心價值跟核心業務啊那你有捍衛就不是這樣子啊\n\n14\n00:04:44,898 --> 00:05:05,315\n沒有因為大家對減碳的速度跟那個當然有不同的看法當然就是有不同的看法所以說才需要有標準簡單的事就不會說實在話啦每一個人都在負責都在做的就是一定是困難的決定這也是選擇是人類要不要去說收這個碳費這是選擇是\n\n15\n00:05:08,217 --> 00:05:23,824\n電價能源政策怎麼做這是選擇那既然現在民眾我們選到了一個民進黨政府他過去8年我們講說能源政策就是錯誤不改就是不改但沒辦法1月13號還是由少數多數的人繼續執政這是選擇啊\n\n16\n00:05:27,523 --> 00:05:38,352\n但我的講是說既然做出選擇你環境部你要負起責任的你也要提出你的方案跟你的建議不然千呼萬喚使不出來那就是越拖啊那你這樣子你2025年怎麼開始徵收\n\n17\n00:05:40,728 --> 00:06:04,169\n可以啊因為今年事實上我們本來部長那個時候抱歉本席不好意思這樣講啊那個時候你是不是還是在這個位置不一定啊但是當一天和尚挑選之後你就是要負起責任的把這個費率給出來還有回去看一下這個會議紀錄好不好這個會議紀錄真的所有部會我們看過那麼多會議紀錄沒有人會議紀錄這樣做啊\n\n18\n00:06:06,363 --> 00:06:23,014\n委員的意見都沒有放進裡面就一張紙出來3月26的會議記錄出來會不會也是一張紙就告訴大家說下一次然後最主要就是說那個執法要再研議我甚至不好意思講說剛剛有我們執政黨委員在質詢還在問說你要兩個月內要給什麼計畫什麼報告\n\n19\n00:06:26,838 --> 00:06:41,256\n是在講說你不就是我們環境部是要做實事的不是在那邊做表面功夫、紙上功夫再給你兩個月然後再做一些報告一些報告出來就是在講是說是怎樣到最後是要幫徵收碳費來來那個舒緩是不是\n\n20\n00:06:47,039 --> 00:07:08,078\n我覺得最重點還是回歸啦出來方案之後大家才能做一個聚焦討論那還有我只再問最後一件事情時間也到了每公噸有每家這個排碳大戶要規劃說有每年有2.5萬噸的免費排放額度\n\n21\n00:07:11,378 --> 00:07:32,365\n這會放進去嗎?那個有修正的現在修正是怎麼樣?他必須要滿足某些條件才可以享受2.5萬噸他還是會有這個方向?對對對那這樣會不會有後續化整為零的問題?會不會我就是公司多成立幾家我每一家公司都可以有2.5萬噸他現在在成立也來不及了\n\n22\n00:07:33,712 --> 00:07:35,813\n這2.5萬噸以上的佔了我們這個碳排量的77%比例非常高\n\n23\n00:08:02,187 --> 00:08:08,552\n以大戶為主但是你不能有化整為零的狀況這也是過去我們也一直在緊盯說為什麼2.5萬噸你訂出來會不會後來變成是一個漏洞\n\n24\n00:08:13,285 --> 00:08:14,086\n法定人數不足\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5346\t7688\t主席麻煩請薛部長這一次我們針對這個碳稅的審議委員會審議會開了幾次會議到昨天為止開兩次兩次嗎一次3月15一次3月263月15的會議記錄出來了你有看到嗎\n31692\t42986\t呃...剛剛好像另外一位委員有提到然後另外一位委員有提到本期看了3月15的這個會議記錄不用...不用懷疑不用訝異就是一張紙就是一張A4的紙一張A4的紙裡面\n45734\t65195\t主席致詞審略委員介紹審略然後報告事項就是兩點告訴大家就是說這個下一次開會的時間以及審議的決議要對外公布以達資訊公開透明但我從頭到尾看不出什麼叫資訊什麼叫公開什麼叫透明沒有啊\n66109\t83797\t委員到底發言講了什麼委員裡面有提到什麼以及現在為什麼千呼萬喚還使不出來的碳費我們的到底收益的標準我們一噸多少錢全部都沒有委員有什麼建議政府現在有什麼問題全部都沒有\n84878\t108374\t就告訴我們3月15號結論就是3月26再開第二次會那3月26開第二次會看起來也沒有辦法達成費率所以記不記得3個禮拜前一樣本期在這個委員會請教您您當時有講期待什麼時候費率會出來是你有講3月底啊是因為給報告然後\n110195\t136593\t那今天有媒體問說520以前新政府上任前有沒有可能因為大家不知道520內閣總辭之後薛部長還在不在當然本席還是希望專業人才任用但重點在於是當一天和尚敲一天鐘你現在你什麼時候出來然後媒體問你說不要以520當成是一個基準點啊那不然要以什麼時候當基準點\n137939\t154717\t我想環境部當然希望說碳費費利審議委員會能夠盡快但是我們會告訴他就是說去考量各個層面的因素那黃委員剛剛有挑戰說考量各層面因素包括哪些\n155390\t174159\t當然包括企業界他未來的競爭力競爭力競爭力以及國內現在4月電價上漲要不要考慮包括CPICPI要考慮那還有包括什麼事實上是還蠻複雜的因素當然我們也必須呼應環團的期待因為環團覺得說臺灣假如碳費太低\n180362\t197402\t對於我們減碳的效果就會很差所以這一點我們把他納進去考量來部長我請教你現在有多少部的部長哪一個部會的部長環境部啊環境部啊你剛剛講CPI也要考慮台電漲價也要考慮企業發展也要考慮\n200365\t206569\t我覺得你跨部會了捏經濟部部長都沒有經濟部部長告訴我們說電價漲沒關係啦但是我拜託各位業者不要以電價漲當藉口來漲價啦經濟部長告訴我們是這樣子然後經濟部部長也沒有再去考慮說物價通貨膨脹怎麼樣因為經濟部部長就直接跟所有民眾講說也不會電價漲也不會造成通膨啦\n224873\t239969\t結果沒想到反而是我們環境部你的本位你的核心業務照理講你是因應氣候變遷因應2050淨零碳牌到時候是牌是零啊那你現在202好我先請教2025會不會實施碳費會不會實施碳費20252025會不會實施徵收碳費\n247256\t270436\t2025會啊會我們會照著這個方向來努力照著這個方向來努力還是會CPI的也是大宴的決定委員會做決議要我們那就考量但是這相對來講這是什麼這是行政部門你各業務單位你要有自己的一個核心出來之後政委還是行政院院長、副院長大家來溝通嘛來處理嘛\n271096\t283916\t如果說你現在你就已經在想其他那抱歉那我們在講是說那你有沒有捍衛你自己的環境部的核心價值跟核心業務啊那你有捍衛就不是這樣子啊\n284898\t305315\t沒有因為大家對減碳的速度跟那個當然有不同的看法當然就是有不同的看法所以說才需要有標準簡單的事就不會說實在話啦每一個人都在負責都在做的就是一定是困難的決定這也是選擇是人類要不要去說收這個碳費這是選擇是\n308217\t323824\t電價能源政策怎麼做這是選擇那既然現在民眾我們選到了一個民進黨政府他過去8年我們講說能源政策就是錯誤不改就是不改但沒辦法1月13號還是由少數多數的人繼續執政這是選擇啊\n327523\t338352\t但我的講是說既然做出選擇你環境部你要負起責任的你也要提出你的方案跟你的建議不然千呼萬喚使不出來那就是越拖啊那你這樣子你2025年怎麼開始徵收\n340728\t364169\t可以啊因為今年事實上我們本來部長那個時候抱歉本席不好意思這樣講啊那個時候你是不是還是在這個位置不一定啊但是當一天和尚挑選之後你就是要負起責任的把這個費率給出來還有回去看一下這個會議紀錄好不好這個會議紀錄真的所有部會我們看過那麼多會議紀錄沒有人會議紀錄這樣做啊\n366363\t383014\t委員的意見都沒有放進裡面就一張紙出來3月26的會議記錄出來會不會也是一張紙就告訴大家說下一次然後最主要就是說那個執法要再研議我甚至不好意思講說剛剛有我們執政黨委員在質詢還在問說你要兩個月內要給什麼計畫什麼報告\n386838\t401256\t是在講說你不就是我們環境部是要做實事的不是在那邊做表面功夫、紙上功夫再給你兩個月然後再做一些報告一些報告出來就是在講是說是怎樣到最後是要幫徵收碳費來來那個舒緩是不是\n407039\t428078\t我覺得最重點還是回歸啦出來方案之後大家才能做一個聚焦討論那還有我只再問最後一件事情時間也到了每公噸有每家這個排碳大戶要規劃說有每年有2.5萬噸的免費排放額度\n431378\t452365\t這會放進去嗎?那個有修正的現在修正是怎麼樣?他必須要滿足某些條件才可以享受2.5萬噸他還是會有這個方向?對對對那這樣會不會有後續化整為零的問題?會不會我就是公司多成立幾家我每一家公司都可以有2.5萬噸他現在在成立也來不及了\n453712\t455813\t這2.5萬噸以上的佔了我們這個碳排量的77%比例非常高\n482187\t488552\t以大戶為主但是你不能有化整為零的狀況這也是過去我們也一直在緊盯說為什麼2.5萬噸你訂出來會不會後來變成是一個漏洞\n493285\t494086\t法定人數不足\n","txt":"主席麻煩請薛部長這一次我們針對這個碳稅的審議委員會審議會開了幾次會議到昨天為止開兩次兩次嗎一次3月15一次3月263月15的會議記錄出來了你有看到嗎\n呃...剛剛好像另外一位委員有提到然後另外一位委員有提到本期看了3月15的這個會議記錄不用...不用懷疑不用訝異就是一張紙就是一張A4的紙一張A4的紙裡面\n主席致詞審略委員介紹審略然後報告事項就是兩點告訴大家就是說這個下一次開會的時間以及審議的決議要對外公布以達資訊公開透明但我從頭到尾看不出什麼叫資訊什麼叫公開什麼叫透明沒有啊\n委員到底發言講了什麼委員裡面有提到什麼以及現在為什麼千呼萬喚還使不出來的碳費我們的到底收益的標準我們一噸多少錢全部都沒有委員有什麼建議政府現在有什麼問題全部都沒有\n就告訴我們3月15號結論就是3月26再開第二次會那3月26開第二次會看起來也沒有辦法達成費率所以記不記得3個禮拜前一樣本期在這個委員會請教您您當時有講期待什麼時候費率會出來是你有講3月底啊是因為給報告然後\n那今天有媒體問說520以前新政府上任前有沒有可能因為大家不知道520內閣總辭之後薛部長還在不在當然本席還是希望專業人才任用但重點在於是當一天和尚敲一天鐘你現在你什麼時候出來然後媒體問你說不要以520當成是一個基準點啊那不然要以什麼時候當基準點\n我想環境部當然希望說碳費費利審議委員會能夠盡快但是我們會告訴他就是說去考量各個層面的因素那黃委員剛剛有挑戰說考量各層面因素包括哪些\n當然包括企業界他未來的競爭力競爭力競爭力以及國內現在4月電價上漲要不要考慮包括CPICPI要考慮那還有包括什麼事實上是還蠻複雜的因素當然我們也必須呼應環團的期待因為環團覺得說臺灣假如碳費太低\n對於我們減碳的效果就會很差所以這一點我們把他納進去考量來部長我請教你現在有多少部的部長哪一個部會的部長環境部啊環境部啊你剛剛講CPI也要考慮台電漲價也要考慮企業發展也要考慮\n我覺得你跨部會了捏經濟部部長都沒有經濟部部長告訴我們說電價漲沒關係啦但是我拜託各位業者不要以電價漲當藉口來漲價啦經濟部長告訴我們是這樣子然後經濟部部長也沒有再去考慮說物價通貨膨脹怎麼樣因為經濟部部長就直接跟所有民眾講說也不會電價漲也不會造成通膨啦\n結果沒想到反而是我們環境部你的本位你的核心業務照理講你是因應氣候變遷因應2050淨零碳牌到時候是牌是零啊那你現在202好我先請教2025會不會實施碳費會不會實施碳費20252025會不會實施徵收碳費\n2025會啊會我們會照著這個方向來努力照著這個方向來努力還是會CPI的也是大宴的決定委員會做決議要我們那就考量但是這相對來講這是什麼這是行政部門你各業務單位你要有自己的一個核心出來之後政委還是行政院院長、副院長大家來溝通嘛來處理嘛\n如果說你現在你就已經在想其他那抱歉那我們在講是說那你有沒有捍衛你自己的環境部的核心價值跟核心業務啊那你有捍衛就不是這樣子啊\n沒有因為大家對減碳的速度跟那個當然有不同的看法當然就是有不同的看法所以說才需要有標準簡單的事就不會說實在話啦每一個人都在負責都在做的就是一定是困難的決定這也是選擇是人類要不要去說收這個碳費這是選擇是\n電價能源政策怎麼做這是選擇那既然現在民眾我們選到了一個民進黨政府他過去8年我們講說能源政策就是錯誤不改就是不改但沒辦法1月13號還是由少數多數的人繼續執政這是選擇啊\n但我的講是說既然做出選擇你環境部你要負起責任的你也要提出你的方案跟你的建議不然千呼萬喚使不出來那就是越拖啊那你這樣子你2025年怎麼開始徵收\n可以啊因為今年事實上我們本來部長那個時候抱歉本席不好意思這樣講啊那個時候你是不是還是在這個位置不一定啊但是當一天和尚挑選之後你就是要負起責任的把這個費率給出來還有回去看一下這個會議紀錄好不好這個會議紀錄真的所有部會我們看過那麼多會議紀錄沒有人會議紀錄這樣做啊\n委員的意見都沒有放進裡面就一張紙出來3月26的會議記錄出來會不會也是一張紙就告訴大家說下一次然後最主要就是說那個執法要再研議我甚至不好意思講說剛剛有我們執政黨委員在質詢還在問說你要兩個月內要給什麼計畫什麼報告\n是在講說你不就是我們環境部是要做實事的不是在那邊做表面功夫、紙上功夫再給你兩個月然後再做一些報告一些報告出來就是在講是說是怎樣到最後是要幫徵收碳費來來那個舒緩是不是\n我覺得最重點還是回歸啦出來方案之後大家才能做一個聚焦討論那還有我只再問最後一件事情時間也到了每公噸有每家這個排碳大戶要規劃說有每年有2.5萬噸的免費排放額度\n這會放進去嗎?那個有修正的現在修正是怎麼樣?他必須要滿足某些條件才可以享受2.5萬噸他還是會有這個方向?對對對那這樣會不會有後續化整為零的問題?會不會我就是公司多成立幾家我每一家公司都可以有2.5萬噸他現在在成立也來不及了\n這2.5萬噸以上的佔了我們這個碳排量的77%比例非常高\n以大戶為主但是你不能有化整為零的狀況這也是過去我們也一直在緊盯說為什麼2.5萬噸你訂出來會不會後來變成是一個漏洞\n法定人數不足\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.346 --> 00:07.688\n主席麻煩請薛部長這一次我們針對這個碳稅的審議委員會審議會開了幾次會議到昨天為止開兩次兩次嗎一次3月15一次3月263月15的會議記錄出來了你有看到嗎\n\n00:31.692 --> 00:42.986\n呃...剛剛好像另外一位委員有提到然後另外一位委員有提到本期看了3月15的這個會議記錄不用...不用懷疑不用訝異就是一張紙就是一張A4的紙一張A4的紙裡面\n\n00:45.734 --> 01:05.195\n主席致詞審略委員介紹審略然後報告事項就是兩點告訴大家就是說這個下一次開會的時間以及審議的決議要對外公布以達資訊公開透明但我從頭到尾看不出什麼叫資訊什麼叫公開什麼叫透明沒有啊\n\n01:06.109 --> 01:23.797\n委員到底發言講了什麼委員裡面有提到什麼以及現在為什麼千呼萬喚還使不出來的碳費我們的到底收益的標準我們一噸多少錢全部都沒有委員有什麼建議政府現在有什麼問題全部都沒有\n\n01:24.878 --> 01:48.374\n就告訴我們3月15號結論就是3月26再開第二次會那3月26開第二次會看起來也沒有辦法達成費率所以記不記得3個禮拜前一樣本期在這個委員會請教您您當時有講期待什麼時候費率會出來是你有講3月底啊是因為給報告然後\n\n01:50.195 --> 02:16.593\n那今天有媒體問說520以前新政府上任前有沒有可能因為大家不知道520內閣總辭之後薛部長還在不在當然本席還是希望專業人才任用但重點在於是當一天和尚敲一天鐘你現在你什麼時候出來然後媒體問你說不要以520當成是一個基準點啊那不然要以什麼時候當基準點\n\n02:17.939 --> 02:34.717\n我想環境部當然希望說碳費費利審議委員會能夠盡快但是我們會告訴他就是說去考量各個層面的因素那黃委員剛剛有挑戰說考量各層面因素包括哪些\n\n02:35.390 --> 02:54.159\n當然包括企業界他未來的競爭力競爭力競爭力以及國內現在4月電價上漲要不要考慮包括CPICPI要考慮那還有包括什麼事實上是還蠻複雜的因素當然我們也必須呼應環團的期待因為環團覺得說臺灣假如碳費太低\n\n03:00.362 --> 03:17.402\n對於我們減碳的效果就會很差所以這一點我們把他納進去考量來部長我請教你現在有多少部的部長哪一個部會的部長環境部啊環境部啊你剛剛講CPI也要考慮台電漲價也要考慮企業發展也要考慮\n\n03:20.365 --> 03:26.569\n我覺得你跨部會了捏經濟部部長都沒有經濟部部長告訴我們說電價漲沒關係啦但是我拜託各位業者不要以電價漲當藉口來漲價啦經濟部長告訴我們是這樣子然後經濟部部長也沒有再去考慮說物價通貨膨脹怎麼樣因為經濟部部長就直接跟所有民眾講說也不會電價漲也不會造成通膨啦\n\n03:44.873 --> 03:59.969\n結果沒想到反而是我們環境部你的本位你的核心業務照理講你是因應氣候變遷因應2050淨零碳牌到時候是牌是零啊那你現在202好我先請教2025會不會實施碳費會不會實施碳費20252025會不會實施徵收碳費\n\n04:07.256 --> 04:30.436\n2025會啊會我們會照著這個方向來努力照著這個方向來努力還是會CPI的也是大宴的決定委員會做決議要我們那就考量但是這相對來講這是什麼這是行政部門你各業務單位你要有自己的一個核心出來之後政委還是行政院院長、副院長大家來溝通嘛來處理嘛\n\n04:31.096 --> 04:43.916\n如果說你現在你就已經在想其他那抱歉那我們在講是說那你有沒有捍衛你自己的環境部的核心價值跟核心業務啊那你有捍衛就不是這樣子啊\n\n04:44.898 --> 05:05.315\n沒有因為大家對減碳的速度跟那個當然有不同的看法當然就是有不同的看法所以說才需要有標準簡單的事就不會說實在話啦每一個人都在負責都在做的就是一定是困難的決定這也是選擇是人類要不要去說收這個碳費這是選擇是\n\n05:08.217 --> 05:23.824\n電價能源政策怎麼做這是選擇那既然現在民眾我們選到了一個民進黨政府他過去8年我們講說能源政策就是錯誤不改就是不改但沒辦法1月13號還是由少數多數的人繼續執政這是選擇啊\n\n05:27.523 --> 05:38.352\n但我的講是說既然做出選擇你環境部你要負起責任的你也要提出你的方案跟你的建議不然千呼萬喚使不出來那就是越拖啊那你這樣子你2025年怎麼開始徵收\n\n05:40.728 --> 06:04.169\n可以啊因為今年事實上我們本來部長那個時候抱歉本席不好意思這樣講啊那個時候你是不是還是在這個位置不一定啊但是當一天和尚挑選之後你就是要負起責任的把這個費率給出來還有回去看一下這個會議紀錄好不好這個會議紀錄真的所有部會我們看過那麼多會議紀錄沒有人會議紀錄這樣做啊\n\n06:06.363 --> 06:23.014\n委員的意見都沒有放進裡面就一張紙出來3月26的會議記錄出來會不會也是一張紙就告訴大家說下一次然後最主要就是說那個執法要再研議我甚至不好意思講說剛剛有我們執政黨委員在質詢還在問說你要兩個月內要給什麼計畫什麼報告\n\n06:26.838 --> 06:41.256\n是在講說你不就是我們環境部是要做實事的不是在那邊做表面功夫、紙上功夫再給你兩個月然後再做一些報告一些報告出來就是在講是說是怎樣到最後是要幫徵收碳費來來那個舒緩是不是\n\n06:47.039 --> 07:08.078\n我覺得最重點還是回歸啦出來方案之後大家才能做一個聚焦討論那還有我只再問最後一件事情時間也到了每公噸有每家這個排碳大戶要規劃說有每年有2.5萬噸的免費排放額度\n\n07:11.378 --> 07:32.365\n這會放進去嗎?那個有修正的現在修正是怎麼樣?他必須要滿足某些條件才可以享受2.5萬噸他還是會有這個方向?對對對那這樣會不會有後續化整為零的問題?會不會我就是公司多成立幾家我每一家公司都可以有2.5萬噸他現在在成立也來不及了\n\n07:33.712 --> 07:35.813\n這2.5萬噸以上的佔了我們這個碳排量的77%比例非常高\n\n08:02.187 --> 08:08.552\n以大戶為主但是你不能有化整為零的狀況這也是過去我們也一直在緊盯說為什麼2.5萬噸你訂出來會不會後來變成是一個漏洞\n\n08:13.285 --> 08:14.086\n法定人數不足\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.346,"end":7.688,"text":"主席麻煩請薛部長這一次我們針對這個碳稅的審議委員會審議會開了幾次會議到昨天為止開兩次兩次嗎一次3月15一次3月263月15的會議記錄出來了你有看到嗎"},{"start":31.692,"end":42.986,"text":"呃...剛剛好像另外一位委員有提到然後另外一位委員有提到本期看了3月15的這個會議記錄不用...不用懷疑不用訝異就是一張紙就是一張A4的紙一張A4的紙裡面"},{"start":45.734,"end":65.195,"text":"主席致詞審略委員介紹審略然後報告事項就是兩點告訴大家就是說這個下一次開會的時間以及審議的決議要對外公布以達資訊公開透明但我從頭到尾看不出什麼叫資訊什麼叫公開什麼叫透明沒有啊"},{"start":66.109,"end":83.797,"text":"委員到底發言講了什麼委員裡面有提到什麼以及現在為什麼千呼萬喚還使不出來的碳費我們的到底收益的標準我們一噸多少錢全部都沒有委員有什麼建議政府現在有什麼問題全部都沒有"},{"start":84.878,"end":108.374,"text":"就告訴我們3月15號結論就是3月26再開第二次會那3月26開第二次會看起來也沒有辦法達成費率所以記不記得3個禮拜前一樣本期在這個委員會請教您您當時有講期待什麼時候費率會出來是你有講3月底啊是因為給報告然後"},{"start":110.195,"end":136.593,"text":"那今天有媒體問說520以前新政府上任前有沒有可能因為大家不知道520內閣總辭之後薛部長還在不在當然本席還是希望專業人才任用但重點在於是當一天和尚敲一天鐘你現在你什麼時候出來然後媒體問你說不要以520當成是一個基準點啊那不然要以什麼時候當基準點"},{"start":137.939,"end":154.717,"text":"我想環境部當然希望說碳費費利審議委員會能夠盡快但是我們會告訴他就是說去考量各個層面的因素那黃委員剛剛有挑戰說考量各層面因素包括哪些"},{"start":155.39,"end":174.159,"text":"當然包括企業界他未來的競爭力競爭力競爭力以及國內現在4月電價上漲要不要考慮包括CPICPI要考慮那還有包括什麼事實上是還蠻複雜的因素當然我們也必須呼應環團的期待因為環團覺得說臺灣假如碳費太低"},{"start":180.362,"end":197.402,"text":"對於我們減碳的效果就會很差所以這一點我們把他納進去考量來部長我請教你現在有多少部的部長哪一個部會的部長環境部啊環境部啊你剛剛講CPI也要考慮台電漲價也要考慮企業發展也要考慮"},{"start":200.365,"end":206.569,"text":"我覺得你跨部會了捏經濟部部長都沒有經濟部部長告訴我們說電價漲沒關係啦但是我拜託各位業者不要以電價漲當藉口來漲價啦經濟部長告訴我們是這樣子然後經濟部部長也沒有再去考慮說物價通貨膨脹怎麼樣因為經濟部部長就直接跟所有民眾講說也不會電價漲也不會造成通膨啦"},{"start":224.873,"end":239.969,"text":"結果沒想到反而是我們環境部你的本位你的核心業務照理講你是因應氣候變遷因應2050淨零碳牌到時候是牌是零啊那你現在202好我先請教2025會不會實施碳費會不會實施碳費20252025會不會實施徵收碳費"},{"start":247.256,"end":270.436,"text":"2025會啊會我們會照著這個方向來努力照著這個方向來努力還是會CPI的也是大宴的決定委員會做決議要我們那就考量但是這相對來講這是什麼這是行政部門你各業務單位你要有自己的一個核心出來之後政委還是行政院院長、副院長大家來溝通嘛來處理嘛"},{"start":271.096,"end":283.916,"text":"如果說你現在你就已經在想其他那抱歉那我們在講是說那你有沒有捍衛你自己的環境部的核心價值跟核心業務啊那你有捍衛就不是這樣子啊"},{"start":284.898,"end":305.315,"text":"沒有因為大家對減碳的速度跟那個當然有不同的看法當然就是有不同的看法所以說才需要有標準簡單的事就不會說實在話啦每一個人都在負責都在做的就是一定是困難的決定這也是選擇是人類要不要去說收這個碳費這是選擇是"},{"start":308.217,"end":323.824,"text":"電價能源政策怎麼做這是選擇那既然現在民眾我們選到了一個民進黨政府他過去8年我們講說能源政策就是錯誤不改就是不改但沒辦法1月13號還是由少數多數的人繼續執政這是選擇啊"},{"start":327.523,"end":338.352,"text":"但我的講是說既然做出選擇你環境部你要負起責任的你也要提出你的方案跟你的建議不然千呼萬喚使不出來那就是越拖啊那你這樣子你2025年怎麼開始徵收"},{"start":340.728,"end":364.169,"text":"可以啊因為今年事實上我們本來部長那個時候抱歉本席不好意思這樣講啊那個時候你是不是還是在這個位置不一定啊但是當一天和尚挑選之後你就是要負起責任的把這個費率給出來還有回去看一下這個會議紀錄好不好這個會議紀錄真的所有部會我們看過那麼多會議紀錄沒有人會議紀錄這樣做啊"},{"start":366.363,"end":383.014,"text":"委員的意見都沒有放進裡面就一張紙出來3月26的會議記錄出來會不會也是一張紙就告訴大家說下一次然後最主要就是說那個執法要再研議我甚至不好意思講說剛剛有我們執政黨委員在質詢還在問說你要兩個月內要給什麼計畫什麼報告"},{"start":386.838,"end":401.256,"text":"是在講說你不就是我們環境部是要做實事的不是在那邊做表面功夫、紙上功夫再給你兩個月然後再做一些報告一些報告出來就是在講是說是怎樣到最後是要幫徵收碳費來來那個舒緩是不是"},{"start":407.039,"end":428.078,"text":"我覺得最重點還是回歸啦出來方案之後大家才能做一個聚焦討論那還有我只再問最後一件事情時間也到了每公噸有每家這個排碳大戶要規劃說有每年有2.5萬噸的免費排放額度"},{"start":431.378,"end":452.365,"text":"這會放進去嗎?那個有修正的現在修正是怎麼樣?他必須要滿足某些條件才可以享受2.5萬噸他還是會有這個方向?對對對那這樣會不會有後續化整為零的問題?會不會我就是公司多成立幾家我每一家公司都可以有2.5萬噸他現在在成立也來不及了"},{"start":453.712,"end":455.813,"text":"這2.5萬噸以上的佔了我們這個碳排量的77%比例非常高"},{"start":482.187,"end":488.552,"text":"以大戶為主但是你不能有化整為零的狀況這也是過去我們也一直在緊盯說為什麼2.5萬噸你訂出來會不會後來變成是一個漏洞"},{"start":493.285,"end":494.086,"text":"法定人數不足"}]}}}}