{"id":150515,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150515","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d586b1a513c434c39ea3d9204d572e03aff8ba9b0039caa7a6a7050ee30736cb025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:11:25 - 12:19:02","影片長度":"00:07:37","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案(含報告事項45案及討論事項4案)。【如經復議則不予處理或審查】\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】\n【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":457,"end_time":"2024-03-27T12:19:02+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T12:11:25+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1019,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時11分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。非常多彰化鄉親和環保團體在抗議，他們說彰化縣的焚化爐全國密度最高，從環境發展的角度來說，你覺得這是一件好事嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：不是好事啦！我們希望這種……"],["黃委員國昌：所以部長也承認，把焚化爐放在彰化這個農業縣，而且密度還是全國最高的，這不是好事。"],["薛部長富盛：對，我覺得這樣的確是有檢討的空間。"],["黃委員國昌：非常好，既然有檢討的空間，我們就來進一步檢討。"],["薛部長富盛：是，好的。"],["黃委員國昌：林佳龍，總統府秘書長，1月4日，也就是選舉以前，跑到彰化說要蓋焚化爐是抹黑，確定不會蓋。林佳龍說的是不是真的？"],["薛部長富盛：我想環評的部分……"],["黃委員國昌：本席沒有扯到環評，現在問的是，林佳龍說的是不是真的？他說中央沒有要在彰化蓋晶鼎焚化爐，他說這是抹黑，確定不會蓋。林佳龍說的是不是真的？"],["薛部長富盛：我覺得總統府秘書長說的，應該是他認為晶鼎假如要蓋焚化爐，還有很長的程序要走完。"],["黃委員國昌：先停一下，林佳龍說要蓋是抹黑，確定不會蓋，你現在幫他解釋，意思是還有很長的程序要走？"],["薛部長富盛：我沒有參與這一塊啦！我只是告訴黃委員……"],["黃委員國昌：好，沒有關係，反正總統府秘書長林佳龍管不到行政院。但是下一位，行政院副院長鄭文燦，他就管得到行政院囉！他也說抹黑的人應該停止，沒有要蓋焚化爐。鄭文燦說的是不是真的？"],["薛部長富盛：我還是同樣向黃委員報告……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係。雖然鄭文燦享有很大的權力，但他不用到立法院備詢，麻煩部長參加行政院院會的時候，遇到鄭文燦副院長時問他，副院長，你當初在彰化做這個承諾，有委員在社環委員會問我，你說的是不是真的？你可以當場向鄭文燦求證，他說的是不是真的。可以說話不用負責任嗎？選前一套，選後一套；選前騙到了票，選後馬上翻臉。部長，這是一個負責任的政府應該有的作為嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上陳秀寳委員對這一塊也非常關心。"],["黃委員國昌：本席非常肯定陳委員的努力。"],["薛部長富盛：是啊！所以……"],["黃委員國昌：但我們現在追究的是什麼？我們現在追究的是行政院的高官、行政院的副院長，他可以跑去彰化欺騙彰化鄉親嗎？這是本席的問題。本席沒有質疑陳委員喔！本席非常肯定陳秀寳委員的努力，因為她也反對啊！但問題是什麼？在彰化做承諾的是林佳龍，是鄭文燦。請教部長，鄭文燦做這種承諾不用負責任嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：黃委員，關於晶鼎是否蓋得成，我們就讓時間、計畫繼續往下走。假如終究沒有蓋成，那他們說的就很好啊！"],["黃委員國昌：部長，你說的非常好，讓程序繼續往下走。"],["薛部長富盛：是啊！"],["黃委員國昌：現在大家要中央政府表示態度，為什麼這個態度很重要？本席馬上就向部長報告。"],["薛部長富盛：好的。"],["黃委員國昌：如果執政黨信守承諾，馬上就喊停這個案子，我們就是不會蓋，那麼那天他們開說明會的時候，鄉親們就不會這麼累。那天去了多少鄉親？但現場全部都是廠商找來的黑衣人，我的老天啊！臺灣還是一個法治國家嗎？我們的環評說明會現場坐滿黑衣人，導致鄉親進不去，為什麼？如果政府履行當初的承諾，這些鄉親有需要這麼累嗎？有需要在現場受這些黑衣人的威嚇嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：在環評書裡面，晶鼎的確有承諾，他們在開工之前一定要辦說明會，要和當地民眾溝通。所以很明顯的，假如有黃委員剛才所描述的現象，因為我們還沒有接到他們的會議紀錄和回報……"],["黃委員國昌：部長，這是第二個層次的問題，本席只是先回應你，因為你說讓程序繼續走下去，讓我們繼續看下去，看最後會不會蓋成。為什麼本席會告訴部長，政府有承諾就應該履行？因為這樣就不用讓鄉親這麼累，還要等程序慢慢的往下走，要自己走到第一線去對抗這些黑衣人，政府這樣做事負責任嗎？這樣對嗎？這是本席要提出的問題。"],["薛部長富盛：事實上這個問題的解決方法很簡單，假如地方政府站出來表態……"],["黃委員國昌：先停一下，中央政府做的承諾，現在推給地方政府喔？"],["薛部長富盛：沒有啊！事實上中央政府是環保和……"],["黃委員國昌：可以這樣嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：不是的。"],["黃委員國昌：中央政府做的承諾，最後卻推給地方政府，如果地方政府如何，這件事情就不會發生？這樣的態度不對吧？本席現在不是在幫王惠美縣長說話，她有她該負的責任。如果今天的說法是，行政院副院長做的承諾，我們接下來看，彰化縣縣長王惠美一定會履行鄭文燦的承諾，這樣也不對吧？這樣符合責任政治的原理嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：這是兩回事啦！"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！你說的非常好，你終於承諾這是兩回事了，現在本席追究的是中央政府的責任。"],["薛部長富盛：雖然是兩回事，但是中央和地方同樣都必須參與晶鼎汰換案這件事情。"],["黃委員國昌：最後一點，時間到了，本席要提醒部長，這是部長可以做的，而且部長剛才說的非常好。"],["薛部長富盛：好的，我來做。"],["黃委員國昌：如果環評的說明會都是黑衣人，鄉親沒有辦法表達意見，依照本席的立場，本席認為這個說明會根本沒有效。"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒有辦法認同嘛！"],["黃委員國昌：苗栗縣之前就做過這樣的認定，本席相信中央環境部的高度，就環評說明會被黑衣人占領這件事情，中央的標準不會比苗栗縣低。部長，你是否同意？"],["薛部長富盛：中央的標準當然會更高啦！"],["黃委員國昌：我們拭目以待啦！今天部長來備詢，本席知道你也很辛苦，因為這個承諾不是你做的，是鄭文燦做的，你卻在這邊幫他背鍋，本席也了解你很無奈。"],["薛部長富盛：不會的，和那個沒有關係。"],["黃委員國昌：麻煩您參加行政院院會的時候，把本席的意見轉達給鄭文燦副院長，告訴他要說到做到，不要黃牛，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：假如有機會的話。"],["黃委員國昌：你一定有機會的啦！謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝黃委員。"],["主席（楊委員曜代）：謝謝。接下來請黃委員秀芳發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-9","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","陳菁徽","劉建國","盧縣一","陳昭姿","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","洪申翰","李彥秀","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","黃國昌","陳冠廷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132102_00002","1132102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍\n結案49案（含報告事項45案及討論事項4案）（前接第一冊）","agenda_id":"1132102_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150515","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150515","tool":"pyannote","id":"150515-pyannote"},"job_id":"wTawkgeyxgQBoZlC","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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433.564, \"end\": 433.684, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 433.684, \"end\": 433.804, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 433.804, \"end\": 433.884, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 433.884, \"end\": 434.044, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 434.044, \"end\": 434.264, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 434.264, \"end\": 434.284, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,668 --> 00:00:36,247\n謝謝主席事事麻煩有請薛部長好黃委員好部長好非常多的彰化鄉親跟環保團體在抗議是他們說彰化蟹的焚化爐全國密度最高從環境發展的角度來講你覺得這是一件好事嗎不是好事我們希望說這種所以部長你也承認嘛你把一個把焚化爐\n\n2\n00:00:38,050 --> 00:01:06,668\n放在農業縣彰化密度是全國最高對我覺得這樣子的確是有有這個檢討的空間啦好非常好那我們就來進一步檢討嘛既然有檢討的空間齁林佳龍總統府秘書長1月4號選舉以前跑到彰化去說齁說那個焚化爐齁要蓋啊是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的\n\n3\n00:01:08,047 --> 00:01:25,143\n我想環評的這個部分我現在沒有扯到環評啦現在我在問林佳龍講的是不是真的他說中央沒有要再彰化再蓋經體焚化爐說要蓋的是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的\n\n4\n00:01:25,783 --> 00:01:31,246\n事實上我覺得秘書呃這個總統秘書長講的他是認為說整個金頂他只要要混亂了要蓋還有很長的程序要走完先停一下齁是林佳龍說齁要蓋是抹黑確定不會蓋\n\n5\n00:01:43,553 --> 00:02:09,481\n你現在幫他解釋說還有很長的程序要走我沒有參與這一塊啦但是我好沒有關係啦或許啦林佳龍反正總統府秘書長管不到行政院嘛但下一位行政院的副院長鄭文燦就管不到行政院了他也是說啦抹黑的人應該要停止啊沒有要蓋焚化爐啊鄭文燦講的是不是真的\n\n6\n00:02:11,583 --> 00:02:26,209\n呃我還是同樣跟黃文報告啊沒有關係因為鄭文燦不用到立法院來備詢嘛他享有很大的權利但他不用到立法院來備詢麻煩部長開行政院院會的時候齁遇到鄭文燦副院長問他\n\n7\n00:02:27,849 --> 00:02:52,803\n說欸副院長你當初在彰化做這個承諾有委員在衛環委員會問我說你講的是不是真的你可以當場跟鄭文燦求證他講的是不是真的可以講話不用負責任喔選前一套選後一套選前騙到了票選後馬上翻臉這是一個負責任的政府應該有的作為嗎部長\n\n8\n00:02:54,324 --> 00:02:57,966\n我非常肯定陳委員他的努力但我們現在在追究的是什麼我們現在追究的是行政院的高官行政院的副院長可以跑去彰化欺騙彰化鄉親嗎這是我的問題我沒有質疑陳委員\n\n9\n00:03:14,502 --> 00:03:33,191\n我非常肯定陳秀寶委員的努力阿他也反對阿但問題是什麼在彰化做承諾的是林佳龍阿是鄭文燦阿鄭文燦做這種承諾不用負責任嗎請教部長黃委員既然這樣齁到底金頂蓋的蓋不成齁我們就讓時間\n\n10\n00:03:35,372 --> 00:04:01,710\n繼續走下去看嘛,假如事實上終究還快成...部長,你講得非常好,讓時間走下去現在大家就要中央政府一個態度出來為什麼這個態度重要?我馬上跟部長報告如果執政黨信守承諾這個案子馬上就把它喊停了我就是不會幹那那一天他們在開說明會的時候相信不會這麼累\n\n11\n00:04:03,035 --> 00:04:20,934\n那天去了多少鄉親啊現場全部都是黑衣人廠商找來的黑衣人我的老天啊台灣還是一個法治國家嗎我們的環評說明會裡面坐滿了黑衣人鄉親進不去耶\n\n12\n00:04:22,496 --> 00:04:34,862\n為什麼政府履行承諾重要政府如果當初履行承諾這些鄉親有需要這麼累嗎這些鄉親有需要在現場遭受這些黑衣人的威嚇嗎\n\n13\n00:04:37,078 --> 00:04:57,422\n給黃委員報告是說環評書裡面事實上經典有承諾他在開工之前一定要辦說明會要跟當地民眾去做溝通所以很明顯的這種假如如同黃委員剛剛所描述的這個現象因為我們還沒接到他們的會議記錄跟這個回報這是第二個層次的問題\n\n14\n00:05:01,023 --> 00:05:07,790\n剛剛我只是在回應你說你說程序繼續走下去讓我們繼續看下去最後會不會蓋層嘛\n\n15\n00:05:09,246 --> 00:05:34,653\n那我為什麼告訴部長說政府有承諾就應該履行你就不用讓鄉親這麼累嘛還要慢慢的走下去還要自己走到第一線去對抗這些黑衣人政府這樣做事負責任嗎這樣對嗎這是我的問題事實上這個問題的解決很簡單地方政府假如站出來先停一下喔中央政府做的承諾現在推給地方政府\n\n16\n00:05:36,618 --> 00:05:59,046\n蛤?事情是可以這樣講的喔?中央政府做了承諾推給地方政府說地方政府如果如何如何這件事就不會發生了這個態度不對吧我現在不是在幫王惠美縣長講話她有她該負的責任但你如果今天的說法是我們的行政院副院長鄭文燦做了承諾\n\n17\n00:06:00,026 --> 00:06:29,484\n我們接下來來看彰化縣縣長王...王惠還是王美惠算了王縣長他一定會履行政文站的承諾這樣不對吧這樣符合責任正式的原理嗎這個是兩回事啦對啊對啊對啊你說得非常好你終於承認是兩回事了現在我在吹救中央政府的責任雖然是兩回事但是中央跟地方都同樣必須參與到金鼎開花案的這件事情啦\n\n18\n00:06:29,704 --> 00:06:45,114\n最後一點時間到了我就跟部長提醒一下這個是部長可以做的部長剛講得非常的好我來做如果環評的說明會裡面都是黑衣人鄉親沒有辦法表達意見我的立黨啊\n\n19\n00:06:45,754 --> 00:07:09,527\n我看完了以後這個說明會各位沒有像那苗栗縣之前就做過這樣的認定了我相信啦我們中央環境部的高度不會在對環評說明會這件事情上被黑衣人佔領的事情標準比苗栗縣還低部長你同不同意中央當然我們標準是會更高啦\n\n20\n00:07:10,123 --> 00:07:14,284\n二、處理或審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8668\t36247\t謝謝主席事事麻煩有請薛部長好黃委員好部長好非常多的彰化鄉親跟環保團體在抗議是他們說彰化蟹的焚化爐全國密度最高從環境發展的角度來講你覺得這是一件好事嗎不是好事我們希望說這種所以部長你也承認嘛你把一個把焚化爐\n38050\t66668\t放在農業縣彰化密度是全國最高對我覺得這樣子的確是有有這個檢討的空間啦好非常好那我們就來進一步檢討嘛既然有檢討的空間齁林佳龍總統府秘書長1月4號選舉以前跑到彰化去說齁說那個焚化爐齁要蓋啊是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的\n68047\t85143\t我想環評的這個部分我現在沒有扯到環評啦現在我在問林佳龍講的是不是真的他說中央沒有要再彰化再蓋經體焚化爐說要蓋的是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的\n85783\t91246\t事實上我覺得秘書呃這個總統秘書長講的他是認為說整個金頂他只要要混亂了要蓋還有很長的程序要走完先停一下齁是林佳龍說齁要蓋是抹黑確定不會蓋\n103553\t129481\t你現在幫他解釋說還有很長的程序要走我沒有參與這一塊啦但是我好沒有關係啦或許啦林佳龍反正總統府秘書長管不到行政院嘛但下一位行政院的副院長鄭文燦就管不到行政院了他也是說啦抹黑的人應該要停止啊沒有要蓋焚化爐啊鄭文燦講的是不是真的\n131583\t146209\t呃我還是同樣跟黃文報告啊沒有關係因為鄭文燦不用到立法院來備詢嘛他享有很大的權利但他不用到立法院來備詢麻煩部長開行政院院會的時候齁遇到鄭文燦副院長問他\n147849\t172803\t說欸副院長你當初在彰化做這個承諾有委員在衛環委員會問我說你講的是不是真的你可以當場跟鄭文燦求證他講的是不是真的可以講話不用負責任喔選前一套選後一套選前騙到了票選後馬上翻臉這是一個負責任的政府應該有的作為嗎部長\n174324\t177966\t我非常肯定陳委員他的努力但我們現在在追究的是什麼我們現在追究的是行政院的高官行政院的副院長可以跑去彰化欺騙彰化鄉親嗎這是我的問題我沒有質疑陳委員\n194502\t213191\t我非常肯定陳秀寶委員的努力阿他也反對阿但問題是什麼在彰化做承諾的是林佳龍阿是鄭文燦阿鄭文燦做這種承諾不用負責任嗎請教部長黃委員既然這樣齁到底金頂蓋的蓋不成齁我們就讓時間\n215372\t241710\t繼續走下去看嘛,假如事實上終究還快成...部長,你講得非常好,讓時間走下去現在大家就要中央政府一個態度出來為什麼這個態度重要?我馬上跟部長報告如果執政黨信守承諾這個案子馬上就把它喊停了我就是不會幹那那一天他們在開說明會的時候相信不會這麼累\n243035\t260934\t那天去了多少鄉親啊現場全部都是黑衣人廠商找來的黑衣人我的老天啊台灣還是一個法治國家嗎我們的環評說明會裡面坐滿了黑衣人鄉親進不去耶\n262496\t274862\t為什麼政府履行承諾重要政府如果當初履行承諾這些鄉親有需要這麼累嗎這些鄉親有需要在現場遭受這些黑衣人的威嚇嗎\n277078\t297422\t給黃委員報告是說環評書裡面事實上經典有承諾他在開工之前一定要辦說明會要跟當地民眾去做溝通所以很明顯的這種假如如同黃委員剛剛所描述的這個現象因為我們還沒接到他們的會議記錄跟這個回報這是第二個層次的問題\n301023\t307790\t剛剛我只是在回應你說你說程序繼續走下去讓我們繼續看下去最後會不會蓋層嘛\n309246\t334653\t那我為什麼告訴部長說政府有承諾就應該履行你就不用讓鄉親這麼累嘛還要慢慢的走下去還要自己走到第一線去對抗這些黑衣人政府這樣做事負責任嗎這樣對嗎這是我的問題事實上這個問題的解決很簡單地方政府假如站出來先停一下喔中央政府做的承諾現在推給地方政府\n336618\t359046\t蛤?事情是可以這樣講的喔?中央政府做了承諾推給地方政府說地方政府如果如何如何這件事就不會發生了這個態度不對吧我現在不是在幫王惠美縣長講話她有她該負的責任但你如果今天的說法是我們的行政院副院長鄭文燦做了承諾\n360026\t389484\t我們接下來來看 彰化縣縣長王...王惠還是王美惠 算了 王縣長他一定會履行政文站的承諾這樣不對吧 這樣符合責任正式的原理嗎這個是兩回事啦對啊對啊對啊 你說得非常好 你終於承認是兩回事了現在我在吹救中央政府的責任雖然是兩回事 但是中央跟地方都同樣必須參與到金鼎開花案的這件事情啦\n389704\t405114\t最後一點時間到了我就跟部長提醒一下這個是部長可以做的部長剛講得非常的好我來做如果環評的說明會裡面都是黑衣人鄉親沒有辦法表達意見我的立黨啊\n405754\t429527\t我看完了以後這個說明會各位沒有像那苗栗縣之前就做過這樣的認定了我相信啦我們中央環境部的高度不會在對環評說明會這件事情上被黑衣人佔領的事情標準比苗栗縣還低部長你同不同意中央當然我們標準是會更高啦\n430123\t434284\t二、處理或審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n","txt":"謝謝主席事事麻煩有請薛部長好黃委員好部長好非常多的彰化鄉親跟環保團體在抗議是他們說彰化蟹的焚化爐全國密度最高從環境發展的角度來講你覺得這是一件好事嗎不是好事我們希望說這種所以部長你也承認嘛你把一個把焚化爐\n放在農業縣彰化密度是全國最高對我覺得這樣子的確是有有這個檢討的空間啦好非常好那我們就來進一步檢討嘛既然有檢討的空間齁林佳龍總統府秘書長1月4號選舉以前跑到彰化去說齁說那個焚化爐齁要蓋啊是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的\n我想環評的這個部分我現在沒有扯到環評啦現在我在問林佳龍講的是不是真的他說中央沒有要再彰化再蓋經體焚化爐說要蓋的是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的\n事實上我覺得秘書呃這個總統秘書長講的他是認為說整個金頂他只要要混亂了要蓋還有很長的程序要走完先停一下齁是林佳龍說齁要蓋是抹黑確定不會蓋\n你現在幫他解釋說還有很長的程序要走我沒有參與這一塊啦但是我好沒有關係啦或許啦林佳龍反正總統府秘書長管不到行政院嘛但下一位行政院的副院長鄭文燦就管不到行政院了他也是說啦抹黑的人應該要停止啊沒有要蓋焚化爐啊鄭文燦講的是不是真的\n呃我還是同樣跟黃文報告啊沒有關係因為鄭文燦不用到立法院來備詢嘛他享有很大的權利但他不用到立法院來備詢麻煩部長開行政院院會的時候齁遇到鄭文燦副院長問他\n說欸副院長你當初在彰化做這個承諾有委員在衛環委員會問我說你講的是不是真的你可以當場跟鄭文燦求證他講的是不是真的可以講話不用負責任喔選前一套選後一套選前騙到了票選後馬上翻臉這是一個負責任的政府應該有的作為嗎部長\n我非常肯定陳委員他的努力但我們現在在追究的是什麼我們現在追究的是行政院的高官行政院的副院長可以跑去彰化欺騙彰化鄉親嗎這是我的問題我沒有質疑陳委員\n我非常肯定陳秀寶委員的努力阿他也反對阿但問題是什麼在彰化做承諾的是林佳龍阿是鄭文燦阿鄭文燦做這種承諾不用負責任嗎請教部長黃委員既然這樣齁到底金頂蓋的蓋不成齁我們就讓時間\n繼續走下去看嘛,假如事實上終究還快成...部長,你講得非常好,讓時間走下去現在大家就要中央政府一個態度出來為什麼這個態度重要?我馬上跟部長報告如果執政黨信守承諾這個案子馬上就把它喊停了我就是不會幹那那一天他們在開說明會的時候相信不會這麼累\n那天去了多少鄉親啊現場全部都是黑衣人廠商找來的黑衣人我的老天啊台灣還是一個法治國家嗎我們的環評說明會裡面坐滿了黑衣人鄉親進不去耶\n為什麼政府履行承諾重要政府如果當初履行承諾這些鄉親有需要這麼累嗎這些鄉親有需要在現場遭受這些黑衣人的威嚇嗎\n給黃委員報告是說環評書裡面事實上經典有承諾他在開工之前一定要辦說明會要跟當地民眾去做溝通所以很明顯的這種假如如同黃委員剛剛所描述的這個現象因為我們還沒接到他們的會議記錄跟這個回報這是第二個層次的問題\n剛剛我只是在回應你說你說程序繼續走下去讓我們繼續看下去最後會不會蓋層嘛\n那我為什麼告訴部長說政府有承諾就應該履行你就不用讓鄉親這麼累嘛還要慢慢的走下去還要自己走到第一線去對抗這些黑衣人政府這樣做事負責任嗎這樣對嗎這是我的問題事實上這個問題的解決很簡單地方政府假如站出來先停一下喔中央政府做的承諾現在推給地方政府\n蛤?事情是可以這樣講的喔?中央政府做了承諾推給地方政府說地方政府如果如何如何這件事就不會發生了這個態度不對吧我現在不是在幫王惠美縣長講話她有她該負的責任但你如果今天的說法是我們的行政院副院長鄭文燦做了承諾\n我們接下來來看 彰化縣縣長王...王惠還是王美惠 算了 王縣長他一定會履行政文站的承諾這樣不對吧 這樣符合責任正式的原理嗎這個是兩回事啦對啊對啊對啊 你說得非常好 你終於承認是兩回事了現在我在吹救中央政府的責任雖然是兩回事 但是中央跟地方都同樣必須參與到金鼎開花案的這件事情啦\n最後一點時間到了我就跟部長提醒一下這個是部長可以做的部長剛講得非常的好我來做如果環評的說明會裡面都是黑衣人鄉親沒有辦法表達意見我的立黨啊\n我看完了以後這個說明會各位沒有像那苗栗縣之前就做過這樣的認定了我相信啦我們中央環境部的高度不會在對環評說明會這件事情上被黑衣人佔領的事情標準比苗栗縣還低部長你同不同意中央當然我們標準是會更高啦\n二、處理或審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.668 --> 00:36.247\n謝謝主席事事麻煩有請薛部長好黃委員好部長好非常多的彰化鄉親跟環保團體在抗議是他們說彰化蟹的焚化爐全國密度最高從環境發展的角度來講你覺得這是一件好事嗎不是好事我們希望說這種所以部長你也承認嘛你把一個把焚化爐\n\n00:38.050 --> 01:06.668\n放在農業縣彰化密度是全國最高對我覺得這樣子的確是有有這個檢討的空間啦好非常好那我們就來進一步檢討嘛既然有檢討的空間齁林佳龍總統府秘書長1月4號選舉以前跑到彰化去說齁說那個焚化爐齁要蓋啊是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的\n\n01:08.047 --> 01:25.143\n我想環評的這個部分我現在沒有扯到環評啦現在我在問林佳龍講的是不是真的他說中央沒有要再彰化再蓋經體焚化爐說要蓋的是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的\n\n01:25.783 --> 01:31.246\n事實上我覺得秘書呃這個總統秘書長講的他是認為說整個金頂他只要要混亂了要蓋還有很長的程序要走完先停一下齁是林佳龍說齁要蓋是抹黑確定不會蓋\n\n01:43.553 --> 02:09.481\n你現在幫他解釋說還有很長的程序要走我沒有參與這一塊啦但是我好沒有關係啦或許啦林佳龍反正總統府秘書長管不到行政院嘛但下一位行政院的副院長鄭文燦就管不到行政院了他也是說啦抹黑的人應該要停止啊沒有要蓋焚化爐啊鄭文燦講的是不是真的\n\n02:11.583 --> 02:26.209\n呃我還是同樣跟黃文報告啊沒有關係因為鄭文燦不用到立法院來備詢嘛他享有很大的權利但他不用到立法院來備詢麻煩部長開行政院院會的時候齁遇到鄭文燦副院長問他\n\n02:27.849 --> 02:52.803\n說欸副院長你當初在彰化做這個承諾有委員在衛環委員會問我說你講的是不是真的你可以當場跟鄭文燦求證他講的是不是真的可以講話不用負責任喔選前一套選後一套選前騙到了票選後馬上翻臉這是一個負責任的政府應該有的作為嗎部長\n\n02:54.324 --> 02:57.966\n我非常肯定陳委員他的努力但我們現在在追究的是什麼我們現在追究的是行政院的高官行政院的副院長可以跑去彰化欺騙彰化鄉親嗎這是我的問題我沒有質疑陳委員\n\n03:14.502 --> 03:33.191\n我非常肯定陳秀寶委員的努力阿他也反對阿但問題是什麼在彰化做承諾的是林佳龍阿是鄭文燦阿鄭文燦做這種承諾不用負責任嗎請教部長黃委員既然這樣齁到底金頂蓋的蓋不成齁我們就讓時間\n\n03:35.372 --> 04:01.710\n繼續走下去看嘛,假如事實上終究還快成...部長,你講得非常好,讓時間走下去現在大家就要中央政府一個態度出來為什麼這個態度重要?我馬上跟部長報告如果執政黨信守承諾這個案子馬上就把它喊停了我就是不會幹那那一天他們在開說明會的時候相信不會這麼累\n\n04:03.035 --> 04:20.934\n那天去了多少鄉親啊現場全部都是黑衣人廠商找來的黑衣人我的老天啊台灣還是一個法治國家嗎我們的環評說明會裡面坐滿了黑衣人鄉親進不去耶\n\n04:22.496 --> 04:34.862\n為什麼政府履行承諾重要政府如果當初履行承諾這些鄉親有需要這麼累嗎這些鄉親有需要在現場遭受這些黑衣人的威嚇嗎\n\n04:37.078 --> 04:57.422\n給黃委員報告是說環評書裡面事實上經典有承諾他在開工之前一定要辦說明會要跟當地民眾去做溝通所以很明顯的這種假如如同黃委員剛剛所描述的這個現象因為我們還沒接到他們的會議記錄跟這個回報這是第二個層次的問題\n\n05:01.023 --> 05:07.790\n剛剛我只是在回應你說你說程序繼續走下去讓我們繼續看下去最後會不會蓋層嘛\n\n05:09.246 --> 05:34.653\n那我為什麼告訴部長說政府有承諾就應該履行你就不用讓鄉親這麼累嘛還要慢慢的走下去還要自己走到第一線去對抗這些黑衣人政府這樣做事負責任嗎這樣對嗎這是我的問題事實上這個問題的解決很簡單地方政府假如站出來先停一下喔中央政府做的承諾現在推給地方政府\n\n05:36.618 --> 05:59.046\n蛤?事情是可以這樣講的喔?中央政府做了承諾推給地方政府說地方政府如果如何如何這件事就不會發生了這個態度不對吧我現在不是在幫王惠美縣長講話她有她該負的責任但你如果今天的說法是我們的行政院副院長鄭文燦做了承諾\n\n06:00.026 --> 06:29.484\n我們接下來來看彰化縣縣長王...王惠還是王美惠算了王縣長他一定會履行政文站的承諾這樣不對吧這樣符合責任正式的原理嗎這個是兩回事啦對啊對啊對啊你說得非常好你終於承認是兩回事了現在我在吹救中央政府的責任雖然是兩回事但是中央跟地方都同樣必須參與到金鼎開花案的這件事情啦\n\n06:29.704 --> 06:45.114\n最後一點時間到了我就跟部長提醒一下這個是部長可以做的部長剛講得非常的好我來做如果環評的說明會裡面都是黑衣人鄉親沒有辦法表達意見我的立黨啊\n\n06:45.754 --> 07:09.527\n我看完了以後這個說明會各位沒有像那苗栗縣之前就做過這樣的認定了我相信啦我們中央環境部的高度不會在對環評說明會這件事情上被黑衣人佔領的事情標準比苗栗縣還低部長你同不同意中央當然我們標準是會更高啦\n\n07:10.123 --> 07:14.284\n二、處理或審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.668,"end":36.247,"text":"謝謝主席事事麻煩有請薛部長好黃委員好部長好非常多的彰化鄉親跟環保團體在抗議是他們說彰化蟹的焚化爐全國密度最高從環境發展的角度來講你覺得這是一件好事嗎不是好事我們希望說這種所以部長你也承認嘛你把一個把焚化爐"},{"start":38.05,"end":66.668,"text":"放在農業縣彰化密度是全國最高對我覺得這樣子的確是有有這個檢討的空間啦好非常好那我們就來進一步檢討嘛既然有檢討的空間齁林佳龍總統府秘書長1月4號選舉以前跑到彰化去說齁說那個焚化爐齁要蓋啊是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的"},{"start":68.047,"end":85.143,"text":"我想環評的這個部分我現在沒有扯到環評啦現在我在問林佳龍講的是不是真的他說中央沒有要再彰化再蓋經體焚化爐說要蓋的是抹黑確定不會蓋林佳龍講的是不是真的"},{"start":85.783,"end":91.246,"text":"事實上我覺得秘書呃這個總統秘書長講的他是認為說整個金頂他只要要混亂了要蓋還有很長的程序要走完先停一下齁是林佳龍說齁要蓋是抹黑確定不會蓋"},{"start":103.553,"end":129.481,"text":"你現在幫他解釋說還有很長的程序要走我沒有參與這一塊啦但是我好沒有關係啦或許啦林佳龍反正總統府秘書長管不到行政院嘛但下一位行政院的副院長鄭文燦就管不到行政院了他也是說啦抹黑的人應該要停止啊沒有要蓋焚化爐啊鄭文燦講的是不是真的"},{"start":131.583,"end":146.209,"text":"呃我還是同樣跟黃文報告啊沒有關係因為鄭文燦不用到立法院來備詢嘛他享有很大的權利但他不用到立法院來備詢麻煩部長開行政院院會的時候齁遇到鄭文燦副院長問他"},{"start":147.849,"end":172.803,"text":"說欸副院長你當初在彰化做這個承諾有委員在衛環委員會問我說你講的是不是真的你可以當場跟鄭文燦求證他講的是不是真的可以講話不用負責任喔選前一套選後一套選前騙到了票選後馬上翻臉這是一個負責任的政府應該有的作為嗎部長"},{"start":174.324,"end":177.966,"text":"我非常肯定陳委員他的努力但我們現在在追究的是什麼我們現在追究的是行政院的高官行政院的副院長可以跑去彰化欺騙彰化鄉親嗎這是我的問題我沒有質疑陳委員"},{"start":194.502,"end":213.191,"text":"我非常肯定陳秀寶委員的努力阿他也反對阿但問題是什麼在彰化做承諾的是林佳龍阿是鄭文燦阿鄭文燦做這種承諾不用負責任嗎請教部長黃委員既然這樣齁到底金頂蓋的蓋不成齁我們就讓時間"},{"start":215.372,"end":241.71,"text":"繼續走下去看嘛,假如事實上終究還快成...部長,你講得非常好,讓時間走下去現在大家就要中央政府一個態度出來為什麼這個態度重要?我馬上跟部長報告如果執政黨信守承諾這個案子馬上就把它喊停了我就是不會幹那那一天他們在開說明會的時候相信不會這麼累"},{"start":243.035,"end":260.934,"text":"那天去了多少鄉親啊現場全部都是黑衣人廠商找來的黑衣人我的老天啊台灣還是一個法治國家嗎我們的環評說明會裡面坐滿了黑衣人鄉親進不去耶"},{"start":262.496,"end":274.862,"text":"為什麼政府履行承諾重要政府如果當初履行承諾這些鄉親有需要這麼累嗎這些鄉親有需要在現場遭受這些黑衣人的威嚇嗎"},{"start":277.078,"end":297.422,"text":"給黃委員報告是說環評書裡面事實上經典有承諾他在開工之前一定要辦說明會要跟當地民眾去做溝通所以很明顯的這種假如如同黃委員剛剛所描述的這個現象因為我們還沒接到他們的會議記錄跟這個回報這是第二個層次的問題"},{"start":301.023,"end":307.79,"text":"剛剛我只是在回應你說你說程序繼續走下去讓我們繼續看下去最後會不會蓋層嘛"},{"start":309.246,"end":334.653,"text":"那我為什麼告訴部長說政府有承諾就應該履行你就不用讓鄉親這麼累嘛還要慢慢的走下去還要自己走到第一線去對抗這些黑衣人政府這樣做事負責任嗎這樣對嗎這是我的問題事實上這個問題的解決很簡單地方政府假如站出來先停一下喔中央政府做的承諾現在推給地方政府"},{"start":336.618,"end":359.046,"text":"蛤?事情是可以這樣講的喔?中央政府做了承諾推給地方政府說地方政府如果如何如何這件事就不會發生了這個態度不對吧我現在不是在幫王惠美縣長講話她有她該負的責任但你如果今天的說法是我們的行政院副院長鄭文燦做了承諾"},{"start":360.026,"end":389.484,"text":"我們接下來來看 彰化縣縣長王...王惠還是王美惠 算了 王縣長他一定會履行政文站的承諾這樣不對吧 這樣符合責任正式的原理嗎這個是兩回事啦對啊對啊對啊 你說得非常好 你終於承認是兩回事了現在我在吹救中央政府的責任雖然是兩回事 但是中央跟地方都同樣必須參與到金鼎開花案的這件事情啦"},{"start":389.704,"end":405.114,"text":"最後一點時間到了我就跟部長提醒一下這個是部長可以做的部長剛講得非常的好我來做如果環評的說明會裡面都是黑衣人鄉親沒有辦法表達意見我的立黨啊"},{"start":405.754,"end":429.527,"text":"我看完了以後這個說明會各位沒有像那苗栗縣之前就做過這樣的認定了我相信啦我們中央環境部的高度不會在對環評說明會這件事情上被黑衣人佔領的事情標準比苗栗縣還低部長你同不同意中央當然我們標準是會更高啦"},{"start":430.123,"end":434.284,"text":"二、處理或審查中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度"}]}}}}