{"id":150521,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150521","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d52df383d5416bd729e53fb40122520aebf8ba9b0039caa7a6720c962c4268ac435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"11:50:28 - 12:01:42","影片長度":"00:11:14","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查「行人交通安全設施條例草案」(一)行政院函請審議「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案。(二)委員黃捷等16人擬具「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案。【上開議案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,23],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,23-1"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":674,"end_time":"2024-03-27T12:01:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T11:50:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":723,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時50分）主席好，本席想請林部長還有陳政次，以及我們經濟部的黃專委。"],["主席：好，部長、次長、經濟部。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長好，還有我們的陳政次以及黃專委，首先本席在這裡看到經濟部的報告書，案由是行政院今天要審行人優先交通安全，這個叫行人交通安全設施條例的草案。我們看到行政院在去年通過了一個行人優先交通安全行動綱領，8月又來一個行人交通安全政策綱領，感覺行政單位好像都在作文比賽，不管是行動綱領、政策綱領，但是我們需要的是我們政府的執行力。現在影響我們行人交通安全，或是行人要行走的通暢，這些障礙的排除到底落實了多少？這才是民眾最關心的。","內政部也提了推動計畫、改善計畫，所以我們的行政單位大部分都在寫作文，或者是負責寫計畫。本席首先在這裡要提的是，今天要審這個草案，我們要的是執行力，是真正落實讓行人有感。走在路上的時候，所有障礙物能排除的，我們希望都能夠盡量的來排除。","所以本席接下來要談的是草案的第八條，第八條有妨礙排除行人通行固定設施、設備的排除。首先法條裡也特別講到，要由主管機關協助規劃適合之方式或地點，辦理設施設備的改善。我們在人行道上最常碰到要改善的是郵箱、變電箱、消防栓、電信設備、電線桿、瓦斯設備，這個大部分是在經濟部的事業單位。","我看到經濟部的計畫特別寫，要請地方政府或道路主管機關，可能是交通部，要依相關規範來施設。至於如何改善跟移除，要由主管機關協助規劃適合的方式或地點，辦理設施設備的改善、遷移或拆除。本席想問的是，到底誰負責來辦理設施設備的改善移除？這個應該是誰？是我們經濟部相關單位，看它是變電箱還是電信設備，還是由我們地方政府，到底是誰？"],["黃專門委員旭暉：跟委員報告，因為不管是在道路或人行道上設置的這些設施，我們都要經過道路主管機關同意，要遷移的話我們要跟道路主管機關……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，這些我都知道。"],["黃專門委員旭暉：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以如果道路主管機關同意，因為我們這個草案假設通過以後，依據辦理那他一定會同意，同意之後到底誰來進行？"],["黃專門委員旭暉：這個部分像台電的話我們都會配合辦理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以台電配合辦理，好！如果是這樣的話，接著他底下寫，期限不得少於三個月，這點就非常有趣。部長，我們的草案就是不得少於三個月，意思就是說，我給你，我不能要求你太快，我給你三個月以上，可是沒有期限欸！三個月以上隨便你什麼時候，是兩年、三年，還是一年內？所以這部分就變成最大的問題，請問部長，你這邊寫不得少於三個月，請問沒有上限怎麼辦？"],["林部長右昌：不得少於三個月是三個月以內。"],["徐委員欣瑩：第一項他期限不得少於三個月啊！"],["林部長右昌：以上啦！以上。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，三個月以上啊！那你三個月以上沒有上限啊！往上沒有上限啊！"],["林部長右昌：地方政府不會給太久的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你現在就變成是地方政府，地方政府不會給太久是什麼意思？所以他們就是譬如說五個月內或半年內？"],["林部長右昌：地方政府當然是越快越好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我的意思是，我們的法規沒有規定上限，目前的現況就是都沒有做，或者是都一直拖。"],["林部長右昌：委員剛剛有提到一個很重要的觀點，就是說在執行面，管線的遷移最大的問題就是在有沒有辦法……比如說電線桿或電箱，他有沒有辦法找到適當的遷移，那這個就是只要地方政府……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，不要再提這個，剛剛已經有講，這個地點誰要確定？誰要來負責找？"],["林部長右昌：地方政府。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以地方政府要負責幫你找地點，而不是要遷變電箱跟電線桿的目的事業主管機關要找。因為老實講，像您當過市長的人，你也不是專業啊！那變電箱跟電線桿可能又會需要牽電什麼的，他所需要的地點，可能還是他們比較了解。"],["林部長右昌：這個兩造會協調，因為找的點也必須……他們也會找，然後地方政府來協助。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，本席希望除了有下限，我們還要訂上限，沒關係，這個部分我也會提出修正動議。"],["林部長右昌：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：接著我要再請教的是騎樓，我想一個是人行道，再來就是騎樓，騎樓也是我們民眾最在意的。騎樓的部分，我首先請問騎樓的拉平施工，是否需要整個騎樓的所有權人同意，還是一定比例的同意？"],["吳署長欣修：報告委員，就地方政府實際的實務上來講，都是要經過地主同意。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所有權人對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，請秀一下投影片，這個大法官有解釋，大法官釋字第564號，道路交通管理處罰條例第三條第一款所稱騎樓既屬道路，其所有人於建築之初即負有供公眾通行之義務。"],["吳署長欣修：沒錯。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以其實也不用等到他們都同意，有人不同意你怎麼辦？難道你這個騎樓我就不讓它通暢嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，是這樣子，因為它屬於私人空間……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，你這不用講。"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我沒有時間了。"],["吳署長欣修：如果他有違反道交條例的部分，當然就依照道交條例的規定去處罰，我想這是權利跟義務兩端。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以就不用他同意嘛！因為這個大法官已經解釋了，所以對於騎樓的整平，我們還是希望中央單位應該有更積極的作為，一是不用所有權人同意，再來就是因為我們現在騎樓……不好意思再給我一點時間，我們騎樓最容易就是，所有權人可能自己施作或破壞對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：如果是這樣的話，請問破壞的人要負什麼樣的責任？"],["吳署長欣修：我們現在是這樣啦！因為騎樓這個產生物已經由來已久，所以現在去苛責現在的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我沒有苛責，我現在就請問你，如果他破壞……"],["吳署長欣修：如果整修以後，我們是說經過我們把他修平以後……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，經果整修以後，他發現不適合他又再破壞，他要負什麼樣的責任？"],["吳署長欣修：所以我們就是會有處罰。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請問他要負什麼樣的責任，有沒有刑事責任？"],["吳署長欣修：沒有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有刑事責任，我們可不可以請法務部廖參事回答一下，這個有沒有刑事責任？"],["廖參事江憲：要看個案狀況，如果破壞的是屬於我們政府單位建設的道路，那就有可能是有毀損公物的問題，看他毀損的物品是什麼。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們在第十二條定的處罰金額是5,000元到2萬5,000元，且是按次處罰，什麼叫按次處罰？就那一次而已？"],["吳署長欣修：就是我給你期限，我再來看，如果你在這個期限內沒有改善沒有恢復，就繼續處罰。"],["徐委員欣瑩：如果再給期限又沒有恢復就再繼續處罰，可以連續處罰的意思？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我們希望騎樓的部分能夠有強制執行這樣的規範，可不可以由我們的主管機關代履行？因為等他去執行其實一直都是一個迴圈，請問我們主管機關可不可以代履行然後跟他拿錢？"],["吳署長欣修：對此可能各縣市會有不一樣的意見，這個部分我們來跟地方政府溝通，其實地方政府應該還滿願意來代履行的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以本席也有提出修正動議，希望我們中央要有明確的規範，還有讓地方能夠有所依循，這一塊我也在這邊特別溝通。好，謝謝！"],["吳署長欣修：謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員的質詢，謝謝！","再來請廖先翔委員質詢，廖委員質詢完後到游顥委員，然後我們中午就休息。謝謝！"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,23-1","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃捷","黃建賓","蘇巧慧","李昆澤","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","許宇甄","王美惠","黃健豪","林俊憲","蔡其昌","徐富癸","何欣純","林沛祥","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","廖先翔","吳思瑤","黃珊珊","游顥","洪申翰","李柏毅","陳冠廷","吳沛憶","陳素月","魯明哲","黃仁","劉建國","林國成","張智倫","丁學忠","林月琴","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查「行人交通安全設施條例草案」(一)行政院函請審議「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案；\n(二)委員黃捷等16人擬具「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案","agenda_id":"1132101_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150521","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150521","tool":"pyannote","id":"150521-pyannote"},"job_id":"RQ6ChzDg8jhr07mZ","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 643.533, \"end\": 643.993, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 643.993, \"end\": 644.013, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 645.402, \"end\": 645.502, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"欣\", \"start\": 645.502, \"end\": 645.522, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"瑩\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 645.522, \"end\": 645.542, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,092 --> 00:00:13,018\n主席好,本席想請林部長還有陳政次以及我們經濟部的黃專委。\n\n2\n00:00:26,018 --> 00:00:46,275\n部長好,還有我們的陳政次以及黃專委首先本席在這裡看到我們經濟部的報告書我們看到暗油是我們行政院像我們今天要審這個行人優先交通安全這個叫\n\n3\n00:00:49,727 --> 00:01:04,417\n行人交通安全設施條例草案我們看到行政院在去年通過了一個行人優先交通安全行動綱領到8月又來一個行人交通安全政策綱領\n\n4\n00:01:05,598 --> 00:01:05,758\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n5\n00:01:31,579 --> 00:01:31,819\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n6\n00:01:51,559 --> 00:02:16,013\n本席首先在這裡要提的是我們今天會要審這個草案我們要的是執行力是真正落實讓行人有感我們在走在路上的時候這個所有的障礙物我們希望把它排除的我們都能夠盡量的來排除首先所以第一個本席接下來要談的是我們草案的第8條第8條有\n\n7\n00:02:19,256 --> 00:02:22,899\n委員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案．則不予審查則不予審查\n\n8\n00:02:38,496 --> 00:02:38,876\n委員黃捷等16人發言\n\n9\n00:02:58,821 --> 00:03:22,610\n這個大部分在經濟部是在經濟部的事業單位所以我看到經濟部的計畫那特別寫說要請地方政府或道路主管機關可能是交通部以相關規範來施設而那個如何改善跟移除呢要由主管機關協助規劃適合的方式或地點\n\n10\n00:03:23,630 --> 00:03:33,541\n那辦理設施設備的改善遷移或拆除本行想問的是到底誰負責來辦理設施設備的改善移除\n\n11\n00:03:36,839 --> 00:03:37,799\n這個應該是誰?\n\n12\n00:03:37,799 --> 00:04:03,744\n是我們經濟部相關單位看他是這個變電箱還是電信設備還是由我們地方政府到底是誰?跟委員報告一下因為我們這些在這個不管是在道路或是在人行道上面設施的這些設施我們都要經過那個道路主管機關同意那可能我們要遷移的話我們要跟道路主管機關對這些我都知道\n\n13\n00:04:04,184 --> 00:04:15,199\n所以如果道路主管機關他同意啊因為我們這個草案如果通過以後假設通過以後那依據辦理那他一定會同意同意之後到底誰來進行嗎\n\n14\n00:04:16,823 --> 00:04:17,183\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n15\n00:04:37,179 --> 00:04:39,400\n不得少於三個月是三個月以內\n\n16\n00:05:00,418 --> 00:05:25,623\n徐欣瑩的期限不得少於三個月啊?對,三個月以上啊。那你三個月以上沒有上線啊?往上沒有上線啊?對方政府不會給太久的。所以你現在就變成是地方政府。那地方政府不會給太久的意思是什麼?所以他們就是,譬如說五個月內或半年內。地方政府當然是越快越好啊。\n\n17\n00:05:28,164 --> 00:05:29,024\n我剛有提到一個很重要的觀點就是說在執行面\n\n18\n00:05:46,350 --> 00:06:07,425\n關線的一個遷移最大的一個問題就是在有沒有辦法比如說電線桿或者說電箱他沒有辦法找到適當的遷移那這個就是在就是說只要地方政府不要再提這個剛剛已經有講那這個地點誰要確定誰要來負責找地方政府\n\n19\n00:06:07,725 --> 00:06:35,587\n所以地方政府要負責幫你找地點而不是我要簽變電箱跟電線桿我目的事業主管機關要找因為你這個簽你的變電箱或電線桿老實講像您當過市長的人你也不是專業啊那你變電箱跟電線桿他可能會需要他又要簽電啊什麼的他所需要的地點可能還是他們比較了解這個兩兆會協調對\n\n20\n00:06:37,188 --> 00:06:38,328\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n21\n00:06:53,453 --> 00:06:53,873\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n22\n00:07:24,551 --> 00:07:50,947\n報告委員,就地方政府實際的實務上來講,都是要經過地主同意的。所有權人對不對?是。好,那本席請秀一下同意片。這個大法官有解釋,564號道路交通管理處罰條例第三條第一款所稱棋樓技術道路,其所有人於建築之初及附有提供公眾通行之義務。沒錯。\n\n23\n00:07:52,188 --> 00:08:10,291\n其實也不用等到他們都同意,有人不同意你怎麼辦?難道你這個起落我就不讓他通暢嗎?跟委員報告,就是他是這樣子喔,因為他屬於私人空間。那如果你有違反,我說明一下,如果他有違反道交條例的部分,當然就依照道交條例的規定去處罰。\n\n24\n00:08:11,670 --> 00:08:12,871\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n25\n00:08:39,614 --> 00:08:39,994\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n26\n00:09:11,201 --> 00:09:23,220\n請問他要負什麼樣的責任嗎?有沒有刑事責任?有沒有刑事責任?沒有刑事責任?我們可不可以請法務部廖參事回答一下這個有沒有刑事責任?\n\n27\n00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:47,094\n委員那要看個案狀況如果破壞的是屬於我們政府單位建設的道路那就有可能是有毀損公務的問題那要看它毀損的物品是怎樣\n\n28\n00:09:48,433 --> 00:10:12,901\n所以在我們第12條的處罰裡面你是提到五千到兩萬五那而且是按次處罰什麼叫按次處罰也就是說我給就那一次沒有我給你期限那你沒有改善我再來看就是在這期限然後我再來看你沒有改善就處罰然後如果再給期限又沒有就再繼續可以連續處罰的意思那\n\n29\n00:10:15,725 --> 00:10:44,013\n好那所以我們希望這個我們的這個騎樓的部分能夠有強制執行的這樣的一個規範所以可不可以我們的主管機關可以帶旅行這個部分就是由我們主管因為你等他等了其實都是一直一個迴圈我們主管機關可不可以帶旅行然後最後跟他拿錢\n\n30\n00:10:45,402 --> 00:10:45,542\n徐欣瑩委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6092\t13018\t主席好,本席想請林部長還有陳政次以及我們經濟部的黃專委。\n26018\t46275\t部長好,還有我們的陳政次以及黃專委首先本席在這裡看到我們經濟部的報告書我們看到暗油是我們行政院像我們今天要審這個行人優先交通安全這個叫\n49727\t64417\t行人交通安全設施條例草案我們看到行政院在去年通過了一個行人優先交通安全行動綱領到8月又來一個行人交通安全政策綱領\n65598\t65758\t徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n91579\t91819\t徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n111559\t136013\t本席首先在這裡要提的是我們今天會要審這個草案我們要的是執行力是真正落實讓行人有感我們在走在路上的時候這個所有的障礙物我們希望把它排除的我們都能夠盡量的來排除首先所以第一個本席接下來要談的是我們草案的第8條第8條有\n139256\t142899\t委員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案．則不予審查則不予審查\n158496\t158876\t委員黃捷等16人發言\n178821\t202610\t這個大部分在經濟部是在經濟部的事業單位所以我看到經濟部的計畫那特別寫說要請地方政府或道路主管機關可能是交通部以相關規範來施設而那個如何改善跟移除呢要由主管機關協助規劃適合的方式或地點\n203630\t213541\t那辦理設施設備的改善遷移或拆除本行想問的是到底誰負責來辦理設施設備的改善移除\n216839\t217799\t這個應該是誰?\n217799\t243744\t是我們經濟部相關單位看他是這個變電箱還是電信設備還是由我們地方政府到底是誰?跟委員報告一下因為我們這些在這個不管是在道路或是在人行道上面設施的這些設施我們都要經過那個道路主管機關同意那可能我們要遷移的話我們要跟道路主管機關對這些我都知道\n244184\t255199\t所以如果道路主管機關他同意啊因為我們這個草案如果通過以後假設通過以後那依據辦理那他一定會同意同意之後到底誰來進行嗎\n256823\t257183\t徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n277179\t279400\t不得少於三個月是三個月以內\n300418\t325623\t徐欣瑩的期限不得少於三個月啊?對,三個月以上啊。那你三個月以上沒有上線啊?往上沒有上線啊?對方政府不會給太久的。所以你現在就變成是地方政府。那地方政府不會給太久的意思是什麼?所以他們就是,譬如說五個月內或半年內。地方政府當然是越快越好啊。\n328164\t329024\t我剛有提到一個很重要的觀點就是說在執行面\n346350\t367425\t關線的一個遷移最大的一個問題就是在有沒有辦法比如說電線桿或者說電箱他沒有辦法找到適當的遷移那這個就是在就是說只要地方政府不要再提這個剛剛已經有講那這個地點誰要確定誰要來負責找地方政府\n367725\t395587\t所以地方政府要負責幫你找地點而不是我要簽變電箱跟電線桿我目的事業主管機關要找因為你這個簽你的變電箱或電線桿老實講像您當過市長的人你也不是專業啊那你變電箱跟電線桿他可能會需要他又要簽電啊什麼的他所需要的地點可能還是他們比較了解這個兩兆會協調對\n397188\t398328\t徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n413453\t413873\t徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n444551\t470947\t報告委員,就地方政府實際的實務上來講,都是要經過地主同意的。所有權人對不對?是。好,那本席請秀一下同意片。這個大法官有解釋,564號道路交通管理處罰條例第三條第一款所稱棋樓技術道路,其所有人於建築之初及附有提供公眾通行之義務。沒錯。\n472188\t490291\t其實也不用等到他們都同意,有人不同意你怎麼辦?難道你這個起落我就不讓他通暢嗎?跟委員報告,就是他是這樣子喔,因為他屬於私人空間。那如果你有違反,我說明一下,如果他有違反道交條例的部分,當然就依照道交條例的規定去處罰。\n491670\t492871\t徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n519614\t519994\t徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n551201\t563220\t請問他要負什麼樣的責任嗎?有沒有刑事責任?有沒有刑事責任?沒有刑事責任?我們可不可以請法務部廖參事回答一下這個有沒有刑事責任?\n571679\t587094\t委員那要看個案狀況如果破壞的是屬於我們政府單位建設的道路那就有可能是有毀損公務的問題那要看它毀損的物品是怎樣\n588433\t612901\t所以在我們第12條的處罰裡面你是提到五千到兩萬五那而且是按次處罰什麼叫按次處罰也就是說我給就那一次沒有我給你期限那你沒有改善我再來看就是在這期限然後我再來看你沒有改善就處罰然後如果再給期限又沒有就再繼續可以連續處罰的意思那\n615725\t644013\t好 那所以我們希望這個我們的這個騎樓的部分能夠有強制執行的這樣的一個規範所以可不可以我們的主管機關可以帶旅行這個部分就是由我們主管因為你等他等了其實都是一直一個迴圈我們主管機關可不可以帶旅行然後最後跟他拿錢\n645402\t645542\t徐欣瑩委員\n","txt":"主席好,本席想請林部長還有陳政次以及我們經濟部的黃專委。\n部長好,還有我們的陳政次以及黃專委首先本席在這裡看到我們經濟部的報告書我們看到暗油是我們行政院像我們今天要審這個行人優先交通安全這個叫\n行人交通安全設施條例草案我們看到行政院在去年通過了一個行人優先交通安全行動綱領到8月又來一個行人交通安全政策綱領\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n本席首先在這裡要提的是我們今天會要審這個草案我們要的是執行力是真正落實讓行人有感我們在走在路上的時候這個所有的障礙物我們希望把它排除的我們都能夠盡量的來排除首先所以第一個本席接下來要談的是我們草案的第8條第8條有\n委員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案．則不予審查則不予審查\n委員黃捷等16人發言\n這個大部分在經濟部是在經濟部的事業單位所以我看到經濟部的計畫那特別寫說要請地方政府或道路主管機關可能是交通部以相關規範來施設而那個如何改善跟移除呢要由主管機關協助規劃適合的方式或地點\n那辦理設施設備的改善遷移或拆除本行想問的是到底誰負責來辦理設施設備的改善移除\n這個應該是誰?\n是我們經濟部相關單位看他是這個變電箱還是電信設備還是由我們地方政府到底是誰?跟委員報告一下因為我們這些在這個不管是在道路或是在人行道上面設施的這些設施我們都要經過那個道路主管機關同意那可能我們要遷移的話我們要跟道路主管機關對這些我都知道\n所以如果道路主管機關他同意啊因為我們這個草案如果通過以後假設通過以後那依據辦理那他一定會同意同意之後到底誰來進行嗎\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n不得少於三個月是三個月以內\n徐欣瑩的期限不得少於三個月啊?對,三個月以上啊。那你三個月以上沒有上線啊?往上沒有上線啊?對方政府不會給太久的。所以你現在就變成是地方政府。那地方政府不會給太久的意思是什麼?所以他們就是,譬如說五個月內或半年內。地方政府當然是越快越好啊。\n我剛有提到一個很重要的觀點就是說在執行面\n關線的一個遷移最大的一個問題就是在有沒有辦法比如說電線桿或者說電箱他沒有辦法找到適當的遷移那這個就是在就是說只要地方政府不要再提這個剛剛已經有講那這個地點誰要確定誰要來負責找地方政府\n所以地方政府要負責幫你找地點而不是我要簽變電箱跟電線桿我目的事業主管機關要找因為你這個簽你的變電箱或電線桿老實講像您當過市長的人你也不是專業啊那你變電箱跟電線桿他可能會需要他又要簽電啊什麼的他所需要的地點可能還是他們比較了解這個兩兆會協調對\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n報告委員,就地方政府實際的實務上來講,都是要經過地主同意的。所有權人對不對?是。好,那本席請秀一下同意片。這個大法官有解釋,564號道路交通管理處罰條例第三條第一款所稱棋樓技術道路,其所有人於建築之初及附有提供公眾通行之義務。沒錯。\n其實也不用等到他們都同意,有人不同意你怎麼辦?難道你這個起落我就不讓他通暢嗎?跟委員報告,就是他是這樣子喔,因為他屬於私人空間。那如果你有違反,我說明一下,如果他有違反道交條例的部分,當然就依照道交條例的規定去處罰。\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n請問他要負什麼樣的責任嗎?有沒有刑事責任?有沒有刑事責任?沒有刑事責任?我們可不可以請法務部廖參事回答一下這個有沒有刑事責任?\n委員那要看個案狀況如果破壞的是屬於我們政府單位建設的道路那就有可能是有毀損公務的問題那要看它毀損的物品是怎樣\n所以在我們第12條的處罰裡面你是提到五千到兩萬五那而且是按次處罰什麼叫按次處罰也就是說我給就那一次沒有我給你期限那你沒有改善我再來看就是在這期限然後我再來看你沒有改善就處罰然後如果再給期限又沒有就再繼續可以連續處罰的意思那\n好 那所以我們希望這個我們的這個騎樓的部分能夠有強制執行的這樣的一個規範所以可不可以我們的主管機關可以帶旅行這個部分就是由我們主管因為你等他等了其實都是一直一個迴圈我們主管機關可不可以帶旅行然後最後跟他拿錢\n徐欣瑩委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.092 --> 00:13.018\n主席好,本席想請林部長還有陳政次以及我們經濟部的黃專委。\n\n00:26.018 --> 00:46.275\n部長好,還有我們的陳政次以及黃專委首先本席在這裡看到我們經濟部的報告書我們看到暗油是我們行政院像我們今天要審這個行人優先交通安全這個叫\n\n00:49.727 --> 01:04.417\n行人交通安全設施條例草案我們看到行政院在去年通過了一個行人優先交通安全行動綱領到8月又來一個行人交通安全政策綱領\n\n01:05.598 --> 01:05.758\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n01:31.579 --> 01:31.819\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n01:51.559 --> 02:16.013\n本席首先在這裡要提的是我們今天會要審這個草案我們要的是執行力是真正落實讓行人有感我們在走在路上的時候這個所有的障礙物我們希望把它排除的我們都能夠盡量的來排除首先所以第一個本席接下來要談的是我們草案的第8條第8條有\n\n02:19.256 --> 02:22.899\n委員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案．則不予審查則不予審查\n\n02:38.496 --> 02:38.876\n委員黃捷等16人發言\n\n02:58.821 --> 03:22.610\n這個大部分在經濟部是在經濟部的事業單位所以我看到經濟部的計畫那特別寫說要請地方政府或道路主管機關可能是交通部以相關規範來施設而那個如何改善跟移除呢要由主管機關協助規劃適合的方式或地點\n\n03:23.630 --> 03:33.541\n那辦理設施設備的改善遷移或拆除本行想問的是到底誰負責來辦理設施設備的改善移除\n\n03:36.839 --> 03:37.799\n這個應該是誰?\n\n03:37.799 --> 04:03.744\n是我們經濟部相關單位看他是這個變電箱還是電信設備還是由我們地方政府到底是誰?跟委員報告一下因為我們這些在這個不管是在道路或是在人行道上面設施的這些設施我們都要經過那個道路主管機關同意那可能我們要遷移的話我們要跟道路主管機關對這些我都知道\n\n04:04.184 --> 04:15.199\n所以如果道路主管機關他同意啊因為我們這個草案如果通過以後假設通過以後那依據辦理那他一定會同意同意之後到底誰來進行嗎\n\n04:16.823 --> 04:17.183\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n04:37.179 --> 04:39.400\n不得少於三個月是三個月以內\n\n05:00.418 --> 05:25.623\n徐欣瑩的期限不得少於三個月啊?對,三個月以上啊。那你三個月以上沒有上線啊?往上沒有上線啊?對方政府不會給太久的。所以你現在就變成是地方政府。那地方政府不會給太久的意思是什麼?所以他們就是,譬如說五個月內或半年內。地方政府當然是越快越好啊。\n\n05:28.164 --> 05:29.024\n我剛有提到一個很重要的觀點就是說在執行面\n\n05:46.350 --> 06:07.425\n關線的一個遷移最大的一個問題就是在有沒有辦法比如說電線桿或者說電箱他沒有辦法找到適當的遷移那這個就是在就是說只要地方政府不要再提這個剛剛已經有講那這個地點誰要確定誰要來負責找地方政府\n\n06:07.725 --> 06:35.587\n所以地方政府要負責幫你找地點而不是我要簽變電箱跟電線桿我目的事業主管機關要找因為你這個簽你的變電箱或電線桿老實講像您當過市長的人你也不是專業啊那你變電箱跟電線桿他可能會需要他又要簽電啊什麼的他所需要的地點可能還是他們比較了解這個兩兆會協調對\n\n06:37.188 --> 06:38.328\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n06:53.453 --> 06:53.873\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n07:24.551 --> 07:50.947\n報告委員,就地方政府實際的實務上來講,都是要經過地主同意的。所有權人對不對?是。好,那本席請秀一下同意片。這個大法官有解釋,564號道路交通管理處罰條例第三條第一款所稱棋樓技術道路,其所有人於建築之初及附有提供公眾通行之義務。沒錯。\n\n07:52.188 --> 08:10.291\n其實也不用等到他們都同意,有人不同意你怎麼辦?難道你這個起落我就不讓他通暢嗎?跟委員報告,就是他是這樣子喔,因為他屬於私人空間。那如果你有違反,我說明一下,如果他有違反道交條例的部分,當然就依照道交條例的規定去處罰。\n\n08:11.670 --> 08:12.871\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n08:39.614 --> 08:39.994\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n09:11.201 --> 09:23.220\n請問他要負什麼樣的責任嗎?有沒有刑事責任?有沒有刑事責任?沒有刑事責任?我們可不可以請法務部廖參事回答一下這個有沒有刑事責任?\n\n09:31.679 --> 09:47.094\n委員那要看個案狀況如果破壞的是屬於我們政府單位建設的道路那就有可能是有毀損公務的問題那要看它毀損的物品是怎樣\n\n09:48.433 --> 10:12.901\n所以在我們第12條的處罰裡面你是提到五千到兩萬五那而且是按次處罰什麼叫按次處罰也就是說我給就那一次沒有我給你期限那你沒有改善我再來看就是在這期限然後我再來看你沒有改善就處罰然後如果再給期限又沒有就再繼續可以連續處罰的意思那\n\n10:15.725 --> 10:44.013\n好那所以我們希望這個我們的這個騎樓的部分能夠有強制執行的這樣的一個規範所以可不可以我們的主管機關可以帶旅行這個部分就是由我們主管因為你等他等了其實都是一直一個迴圈我們主管機關可不可以帶旅行然後最後跟他拿錢\n\n10:45.402 --> 10:45.542\n徐欣瑩委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.092,"end":13.018,"text":"主席好,本席想請林部長還有陳政次以及我們經濟部的黃專委。"},{"start":26.018,"end":46.275,"text":"部長好,還有我們的陳政次以及黃專委首先本席在這裡看到我們經濟部的報告書我們看到暗油是我們行政院像我們今天要審這個行人優先交通安全這個叫"},{"start":49.727,"end":64.417,"text":"行人交通安全設施條例草案我們看到行政院在去年通過了一個行人優先交通安全行動綱領到8月又來一個行人交通安全政策綱領"},{"start":65.598,"end":65.758,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":91.579,"end":91.819,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":111.559,"end":136.013,"text":"本席首先在這裡要提的是我們今天會要審這個草案我們要的是執行力是真正落實讓行人有感我們在走在路上的時候這個所有的障礙物我們希望把它排除的我們都能夠盡量的來排除首先所以第一個本席接下來要談的是我們草案的第8條第8條有"},{"start":139.256,"end":142.899,"text":"委員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案．則不予審查則不予審查"},{"start":158.496,"end":158.876,"text":"委員黃捷等16人發言"},{"start":178.821,"end":202.61,"text":"這個大部分在經濟部是在經濟部的事業單位所以我看到經濟部的計畫那特別寫說要請地方政府或道路主管機關可能是交通部以相關規範來施設而那個如何改善跟移除呢要由主管機關協助規劃適合的方式或地點"},{"start":203.63,"end":213.541,"text":"那辦理設施設備的改善遷移或拆除本行想問的是到底誰負責來辦理設施設備的改善移除"},{"start":216.839,"end":217.799,"text":"這個應該是誰?"},{"start":217.799,"end":243.744,"text":"是我們經濟部相關單位看他是這個變電箱還是電信設備還是由我們地方政府到底是誰?跟委員報告一下因為我們這些在這個不管是在道路或是在人行道上面設施的這些設施我們都要經過那個道路主管機關同意那可能我們要遷移的話我們要跟道路主管機關對這些我都知道"},{"start":244.184,"end":255.199,"text":"所以如果道路主管機關他同意啊因為我們這個草案如果通過以後假設通過以後那依據辦理那他一定會同意同意之後到底誰來進行嗎"},{"start":256.823,"end":257.183,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":277.179,"end":279.4,"text":"不得少於三個月是三個月以內"},{"start":300.418,"end":325.623,"text":"徐欣瑩的期限不得少於三個月啊?對,三個月以上啊。那你三個月以上沒有上線啊?往上沒有上線啊?對方政府不會給太久的。所以你現在就變成是地方政府。那地方政府不會給太久的意思是什麼?所以他們就是,譬如說五個月內或半年內。地方政府當然是越快越好啊。"},{"start":328.164,"end":329.024,"text":"我剛有提到一個很重要的觀點就是說在執行面"},{"start":346.35,"end":367.425,"text":"關線的一個遷移最大的一個問題就是在有沒有辦法比如說電線桿或者說電箱他沒有辦法找到適當的遷移那這個就是在就是說只要地方政府不要再提這個剛剛已經有講那這個地點誰要確定誰要來負責找地方政府"},{"start":367.725,"end":395.587,"text":"所以地方政府要負責幫你找地點而不是我要簽變電箱跟電線桿我目的事業主管機關要找因為你這個簽你的變電箱或電線桿老實講像您當過市長的人你也不是專業啊那你變電箱跟電線桿他可能會需要他又要簽電啊什麼的他所需要的地點可能還是他們比較了解這個兩兆會協調對"},{"start":397.188,"end":398.328,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":413.453,"end":413.873,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":444.551,"end":470.947,"text":"報告委員,就地方政府實際的實務上來講,都是要經過地主同意的。所有權人對不對?是。好,那本席請秀一下同意片。這個大法官有解釋,564號道路交通管理處罰條例第三條第一款所稱棋樓技術道路,其所有人於建築之初及附有提供公眾通行之義務。沒錯。"},{"start":472.188,"end":490.291,"text":"其實也不用等到他們都同意,有人不同意你怎麼辦?難道你這個起落我就不讓他通暢嗎?跟委員報告,就是他是這樣子喔,因為他屬於私人空間。那如果你有違反,我說明一下,如果他有違反道交條例的部分,當然就依照道交條例的規定去處罰。"},{"start":491.67,"end":492.871,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":519.614,"end":519.994,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":551.201,"end":563.22,"text":"請問他要負什麼樣的責任嗎?有沒有刑事責任?有沒有刑事責任?沒有刑事責任?我們可不可以請法務部廖參事回答一下這個有沒有刑事責任?"},{"start":571.679,"end":587.094,"text":"委員那要看個案狀況如果破壞的是屬於我們政府單位建設的道路那就有可能是有毀損公務的問題那要看它毀損的物品是怎樣"},{"start":588.433,"end":612.901,"text":"所以在我們第12條的處罰裡面你是提到五千到兩萬五那而且是按次處罰什麼叫按次處罰也就是說我給就那一次沒有我給你期限那你沒有改善我再來看就是在這期限然後我再來看你沒有改善就處罰然後如果再給期限又沒有就再繼續可以連續處罰的意思那"},{"start":615.725,"end":644.013,"text":"好 那所以我們希望這個我們的這個騎樓的部分能夠有強制執行的這樣的一個規範所以可不可以我們的主管機關可以帶旅行這個部分就是由我們主管因為你等他等了其實都是一直一個迴圈我們主管機關可不可以帶旅行然後最後跟他拿錢"},{"start":645.402,"end":645.542,"text":"徐欣瑩委員"}]}}}}