{"id":150525,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150525","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d540893537a80f198252100ef94a0b7c33f8ba9b0039caa7a66e4a7cbb296d415e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"12:16:59 - 12:27:53","影片長度":"00:10:54","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算(公務預算)解凍案8案。(如未接獲議事處來函，則不予處理或審查)【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-5"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":654,"end_time":"2024-03-27T12:27:53+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T12:16:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":964,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（12時17分）謝謝召委，有請史哲部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["史部長哲：委員好。"],["范委員雲：部長好。今天主要是跟您問兩題，一個就是#MeToo之後我們獎補助相關失格機制的進度；第二個就是文策院TICP2.0，之前有滿多影視界反彈的，未來我們如何避免這樣一個狀況。","剛剛我有聽到郭昱晴委員也有質詢到這個部分，因為禮拜一我跟郭委員還有人本基金會，我們共同揭露了戲曲學院長達十幾年包庇兩師性騷甚至嚴重到性侵未成年學生，你有看到這個照片，我們教育部司長還出席公開致歉，會針對戲曲學院專案來處理跟檢討。當天我們有藝文界的代表，也針對文化部的相關範圍，提出滿多的要求，不知道部長有沒有看到這個新聞？"],["史部長哲：有。"],["范委員雲：有注意到吧！我想，因為當天我們主要都是針對教育部，教育部也已經承諾要做滿多的事；文化部的部分，剛剛謝謝部長有承諾我們郭委員，在目前你們的獎補助辦法，做不到的部分再去思考還有什麼方式可以幫助這些站出來的學生，為什麼事情會壓十幾年？其實就是因為這些老師權勢太大，會影響到他的未來。我去年10月的時候，就曾向您、文化部質詢過，我談到我的辦公室在#MeToo過程中，有接到超過50個沒有公開在網路上#MeToo的陳情人，其中陳情的對象，有五分之一是藝文界的大師，所以是讓他們非常難以公開的#MeToo。我想無論從戲曲案或者是之前藝文界的#MeToo，他們就是害怕被封殺，就是前途會被封殺，所以才噤聲，謝謝部長還有次長，都有很積極的做，當時也承諾文化部跟國藝會的獎補助會全面的修正，您剛剛也有略講了一下進度，我想再細問一下，因為本來是承諾去年底就要全部做完，目前的情況是怎麼樣？"],["史部長哲：跟委員報告，事實上，102項的補助要點當中，我們都已經修正完畢了，都已經納入，如果違反性平得撤銷甚至是追回，這個相關的法制作業都已經完成了。"],["范委員雲：好。"],["史部長哲：我剛剛的答復只是針對這個個案，如果它不是這個申請的主體。"],["范委員雲：不是這個辦法無法處理的部分，我謝謝史哲部長剛才承諾再去想其他的方法。"],["史部長哲：是。"],["范委員雲：我再來講文化部資源可以處理到的部分，根據我手上的資訊，還有18項沒有完成，當然也要肯定你們已經修正了84項，這個數字是對的嗎？已經修正了84項，還有18項沒有完成，是不是？"],["史部長哲：應該說沒有完成修訂的並不是它沒有修訂，而是還在進行相關的程序，譬如有些需要公告時間、有些需要報院等等，不是沒有完成。"],["范委員雲：好，瞭解。我覺得完成84項相關獎補助修正已經是一大功臣，這個要給予肯定，至於還沒完成的，可能就是程序比較複雜。"],["史部長哲：是。"],["范委員雲：請問部長，什麼時候能夠全部完成，因為它的相關程序應該是難度比較高？"],["史部長哲：今年6月底一定會完成。"],["范委員雲：6月底？"],["史部長哲：對。"],["范委員雲：我相信、也希望史部長在520之後能繼續連任。"],["史部長哲：跟這個沒有關係，它只是相關的程序。"],["范委員雲：為什麼要到6月底，不能是520呢？"],["史部長哲：可能稍微……"],["范委員雲：請時思次長簡要說明。"],["王次長時思：主要是在公告的程序或是在核定的程序，現在是程序的問題，不是因為內容沒有修訂完成，所以6月底就會完成所有的相關程序。"],["范委員雲：那就拜託6月底一定要完成，好不好？"],["史部長哲：法定程序。"],["范委員雲：因為之前你們是說去年底，我想這些可能就是程序特別複雜。另外，我想再問一個問題，不知道是否有可能，現在我們講的是他已經領了文化部的獎補助，無論是國藝會或文化部這裡，因為是他已經領了，所以我們這是亡羊補牢，對不對？因為領了之後才發現他的性騷行為或嚴重性侵，所以在他還沒領之前，我們是否能有一個前端預防篩選機制？部長，你覺得有沒有可能在前端就先處理？譬如我們剛剛講的兩位戲曲老師，你對郭委員的回應是獎補助不能處理的時候，如果他來申請的話，以你們目前現有的機制，有辦法處理嗎？"],["史部長哲：報告委員，他還沒申請、即將申請或申請當中，我們都會審查他現在是不是有經過這類案子的認定，像剛剛你舉例的這兩個人，它就會變成審查時很重要的依據。"],["范委員雲：所以你們這邊會有一個性平事件的內部資料庫，是不是？因為這樣的案子在未來有可能會累積越來越多。"],["史部長哲：我想我們不宜說有一個資料庫。"],["范委員雲：不宜說有一個資料庫？"],["史部長哲：對，但是我認為它絕對會納入審查的依據。"],["范委員雲：我覺得這就像是教育部的狼師一樣要控管，就連補習班都來要求我們能夠運用教育部相關的資料，因為家長也會擔心，如果他不能待在正式體制而轉到補習班是否會影響到未成年的兒童。我是建議，獎補助是發現失格的事後處理方式，還是請文化部能夠建立內部性平事件資料庫，因為相關的法規，譬如性侵可能比較沒有相關的個資問題，但是其他的可能會有相關其他不同法律的部分。我覺得你們的獎補助審查機制與內部性平事件資料庫是蠻有必要的，部長是不是可以答應我，回去之後會研議這兩件事情，再給我辦公室一個報告，好嗎？"],["史部長哲：好，沒問題，謝謝。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝。還有一點時間，因為我的辦公室接到蠻多的陳情，當你們的TICP2.0方案一出的時候，你也看到有百位影人不滿的連署，所以我的辦公室就針對這個部分緊急辦了一場座談會，也與文策院就相關意見來回的溝通反映。現在我思考的是未來如何不要發生這樣的事，不知道文策院是否有相關的反省？我知道你們已經做了一些調整，不滿是已經降低了，未來如何不要發生這樣大規模的抗議呢？"],["蔡董事長嘉駿：瞭解，主要還是在於溝通的問題。這次TICP方案進行更新的過程中，我們的確約了很多業者個別溝通，但我自己疏忽的一點是我們沒有做很大型公開的溝通，讓大家可以具體聚在一起集思廣益。這一點其實……"],["范委員雲：剛剛你說與業者個別溝通，大概溝通了幾位對象、幾個人？"],["蔡董事長嘉駿：大概溝通了7、8位以上。"],["范委員雲：7、8位？業界相關人士大概有多少位？"],["蔡董事長嘉駿：主要是因為過去TICP有來送件申請的公司大概也就這7、8家。"],["范委員雲：但是潛在準備要申請的人不只吧？"],["蔡董事長嘉駿：是，所以我認為我們溝通的規模還不足，在這個事件過後，一個多月來大概已經舉辦了十幾場各種說明會，未來各種方案的一些更新，我們也都會在事前舉辦更大型的說明會。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝。部長，方案的改變不一定是壞事，我相信文策院也是想要做得更好，可是這些文藝影視相關投資者的規劃都是長期的，就像我們向國科會申請一個研究案，即使今天要申請的不過是百萬規模，可能就要準備二年、一年，所以當你們立刻改變的時候就會對他們產生非常大的影響。剛剛說文策院溝通的人數是7、8人，但是潛在要申請的、與國外談妥的，根據我們看到的陳情資料，其實他們是非常高度的不滿，因為沒有事前溝通。我希望史哲部長可以監督文策院，未來涉及投資方案的政策變動時，應該要提前與影視文化界公開的溝通討論，這樣可以嗎？"],["史部長哲：當然、當然。"],["范委員雲：可以嗎？"],["史部長哲：不只是文策院，我們相關所屬，只要……"],["范委員雲：對，就是利害相關人嘛！"],["史部長哲：只要涉及文化政策上的調整，都是能夠比照……"],["范委員雲：就像學術界的獎補助辦法要改變，絕對是北中南舉辦座談會，而且是預告可能在一、二年後的改變，不會是立刻改變，因為有人可能已經準備在今年申請了，國外談妥人看到臺灣政策變動就會覺得這個投資環境不穩定。針對這次的檢討，也希望部長能讓他們內部機制將來不要再發生這樣的事。","另外一個蠻多文化影視界陳情反映的，就是投資審查會要保障懂合資合制的產業界代表參與，部長，你應該也會同意這點，是不是也能夠……"],["史部長哲：會啦！這個都有。"],["范委員雲：都會有嗎？"],["史部長哲：對。"],["范委員雲：部長，針對這兩個部分，是不是請文化部與文策院給我們辦公室一個書面報告，好不好？"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝。"],["范委員雲：一個月內，可以嗎？"],["史部長哲：可以，謝謝。"],["范委員雲：謝謝史哲部長。"],["史部長哲：謝謝。"],["范委員雲：之後再向你詢問大家關心的轉型正義，也希望文化部可以做得更多，謝謝。"],["史部長哲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員，史哲部長請回。","接下來先處理解凍案，共計8案，請議事人員宣讀。"],["主席：總共有8案。","第一案，關於文化部第2目綜合規劃業務，預算編列2億8,513萬8,000元，凍結1,000萬元，請問委員有無意見？同意解凍嗎？"],["柯委員志恩：你們就這樣解凍，我以為要坐下來討論？"],["主席：對啊！有沒有……"],["范委員雲：我有問題要問。"],["主席：范雲委員。"],["范委員雲：針對第一案綜合規劃業務的身障文化平權，在你們的報告中表示有13家平台申請加入文化部補助的優化身障者線上購票系統，請問，還有多少平台沒有加入？"],["吳司長宜璇：目前大概還有3、4家沒有加入身障平台，但是有一些是它自己技術上跟進排程的問題，我們還是會持續宣導推廣，希望它們能夠加入。"],["范委員雲：如果是3、4家，我就覺得還好，是不是可以給我辦公室一個書面報告？我是同意解凍，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：還有沒有其他委員有意見？沒有，大家同意解凍？第一案就准予動支，提報院會。","討論第二案，有關於文化部第3目文化資源業務，預算編列25億8,476萬2,000元，凍結1,000萬元。請問各位委員有無意見？（無）無意見，同意解凍。第二案同意解凍，准予動支，提報院會。","第三案，有關於文化創意產業發展業務，預算編列39億1,095萬元，凍結1,500萬元。請問各位委員有無意見？","請柯志恩委員。"],["柯委員志恩：雖然這個不是我凍的，但我們還是要善盡監督的職責。今天已經有非常多人討論關於文化幣的部分，但我還是沒有看清楚你們所提供的報告內容，第一個，首先想要了解一下，剛剛很多人質詢112年的文化幣使用大概是八成六，對不對？應該是吧？我可不可以知道另外的一些流向是到什麼地方去了？第二個，113年是六成八，目前使用是六成八嘛！我個人認為這個部分的宣傳要更多。第三個，我覺得還是要延續剛才所說的文化幣，關於高雄的獨立書店，我的意思是剛剛你給我回應的部分，我會再回去查。因為這畢竟是件好事，我們也希望書店本身也能夠受惠。他們當中有一系列的在一下之間交量爆增，可能因為網路或各方面設計的部分，讓現在的小書店……剛剛我說的這麼久以來都沒辦法做處理。而且文化部也去訪視了，每天都要接受這個部分，有沒有什麼解方？我也不認識這些獨立書店，只是他們來向我陳情，所以我覺得關於文化幣施行層面的流暢度並沒有在這個報告中看到，所以我一定要趁機請各位給我一些比較詳細的回答，好嗎？"],["主席：請部長回答。"],["史部長哲：向委員簡單回應，第一個，從113年1月20日實施至今，簡單講就是2個月的時間，事實上，以同樣2個月的時間來講，今年文化幣的普及狀況確實是比去年好很多，可見一次一次的實施就會讓它更普及，這是第一件事情。第二個，去年使用的文化幣預算，除了文化幣直接發放的金額以外，其他的都做了什麼？其他做的還是文化幣的事情，因為預算編列的是文化幣，就只能做文化幣的事情，譬如獨立書店2點加贈1點的錢就是從那個……"],["柯委員志恩：我知道啦！剛剛我也說了，今天大家的質詢都是在文化幣怎麼樣查弊端等等，但是我只要強調你不能讓善意的第三者受害嘛！"],["史部長哲：是。第三點……"],["柯委員志恩：網路有很多買賣，有什麼東西之類的，以及剛剛我說的那些流程，我只希望利用這個機會，請你給我一個回應，可不可以立刻去做一些，譬如我們剛剛已經提出事實證據的高雄獨立書店，你可不可以讓他們更快的做一個解決，好不好？"],["史部長哲：我現在要向委員承諾，對於你垂詢的事項，會後我們是不是趕快做一個釐清。"],["柯委員志恩：好不好？"],["史部長哲：基本上，今天所有的答詢，包括對使用者、對消費點，我都是希望採取比較輔導的方式處理，因為這不是一個大家……"],["柯委員志恩：部長，剛才我已經強調過，這個真是有點擾民，人家也是好好的配合政策、人家也不會有什麼流量異常、也想尋到一個原因，我只說從1月25日到3月多就有一連串條列那麼多的事項出來，就給人家一個好的效率與解決方法吧！"],["史部長哲：我已經承諾我們會後趕快處理。"],["柯委員志恩：好不好？趕快做個承諾吧！這也是讓很多的獨立書店來配合你們的政策，不要讓人家因此受害。"],["史部長哲：我們沒有任何要追殺的意思。"],["柯委員志恩：我知道，但是真的不要讓善意的第三者因此受害，這是我們很卑微的要求。"],["史部長哲：瞭解。"],["柯委員志恩：為了我們高雄向你拜託一下，這樣可以嗎？"],["史部長哲：不要這樣、不要這樣！說到高雄，我都沒辦法……"],["柯委員志恩：拜託一下！3月29日了，真的是沒解決不行！"],["史部長哲：好。"],["主席：接下來請范雲委員。"],["范委員雲：同樣是第三案，我的提案是要求文化部研擬整合國內線上串流影音平台的鼓勵具體措施之規劃，你們對這個部分是有回答，但我覺得回答得有點太簡單！當時我也是希望促成你們與電信三雄能夠合作，但是你們沒有特別的說明，這個部分是不是可以給我辦公室補上一個書面報告，針對文策院與電信三雄的鼓勵措施，好嗎？"],["史部長哲：好，目前正在進行式當中。"],["范委員雲：這個蠻重要的。"],["史部長哲：事實上，這是一個大事，確實在公司治理上是需要一些程序。"],["范委員雲：之前我也開過協調會，希望能夠促成這件事，我想這個很重要，好不好？"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝。"],["范委員雲：OK，謝謝。"],["主席：看起來是同意解凍，我們就准予動支，提報院會。","第四案，有關於影視及流行音樂發展業務，預算編列45億7,524萬8,000元，凍結2,800萬元。","請范雲委員。"],["范委員雲：關於第四案，我有一個提案是要求文化部旗下機關還有財團法人等都要設性平小組，而你們的報告有提到，的確原本沒有的後來都有設常設性的性平工作小組，我看到你們的回復是以公視為例，每年至少召開1次會議。但以一般的機構而言，每年的會議至少要開4次，所以1次是不是太少了？我肯定你們已經推動旗下機關設立常設型的性平工作小組，有沒有辦法監督讓它不要流於形式？因為1年1次的話，真的會流於形式，希望能夠增加這個頻率，好不好？部長是不是可以協助這個部分？"],["史部長哲：好，我們來整體檢討一下，應該讓它常態化的運作。公視有要說明嗎？"],["范委員雲：公視有代表嗎？"],["徐總經理秋華：每季會1次。"],["范委員雲：每季會1次喔！因為報告中寫說每年至少1次，我聽起來就覺得這個會流於形式，謝謝部長。給我一個簡單的書面報告，我可以同意這個解凍。"],["史部長哲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請柯志恩委員。"],["柯委員志恩：不好意思！我還是有一些想法喔！像Taiwan Plus到目前為止爭議蠻大的，而且它最主要是要透過英文的頻道向大家進行廣大的宣傳，但是部長知道嗎？到目前為止，Taiwan Plus全英文頻道收視群最高的第一名是臺灣，大概佔了一半以上，第二名是印度的30.7，部長，你知道嗎？"],["史部長哲：我知道。"],["柯委員志恩：你這個是大內宣，真的是要為國外做這個部分，最重要的是我在你們的解凍報告書上沒辦法看到對Taiwan Plus有更細節的瞭解，特別是它現在的經營團隊轉到公視，不知道整個績效是不是有變更好？最主要是它應該讓更多國外的人看到我們臺灣的這些文化。"],["史部長哲：報告委員，它的績效一年比一年成長……"],["柯委員志恩：有啦！但是……"],["史部長哲：實際的狀況，是不是請Taiwan Plus說明？"],["柯委員志恩：還有、還有，我先說一下，一年砸10億，但是數據其實蠻慘淡的啦！你們還舉辦了一些國際記者會、還請唐鳳部長用全英文開設……我只是強調在這個報告中沒有讓我看到我想要瞭解的詳細資訊，如果你可以提出更好的書面報告給我、提供更多的資料給我，我們可以在看到書面報告後再來解凍。Taiwan Plus因為錢是蠻多的，績效看起來也是常常被批評，這些資料回答得並不完整。"],["史部長哲：是不是先讓Taiwan Plus做個說明？"],["柯委員志恩：請說。"],["余執行長佳璋：報告委員，因為數據有包含頻道、app、YouTube與IG app的使用，所以委員剛剛所提的只是部分。我們在頻道上來講，美國、印度、菲律賓都有觀眾在使用，臺灣只是部分。"],["柯委員志恩：數據的比率呢？"],["余執行長佳璋：有，我們都有交到文化部，也可以再補充給委員辦公室。"],["柯委員志恩：在哪裡，我沒看到，你給我的報告沒有啊？"],["余執行長佳璋：我們的報告中……"],["柯委員志恩：你給我這份報告，好不好？因為時間的關係，我自己當過召委，也知道很急，但是我們就妥協一下，請你把Taiwan Plus的這些數據全部交給我，好不好？"],["余執行長佳璋：沒有問題、沒有問題。"],["柯委員志恩：這樣我才有辦法給你，否則，錢蠻多的，好不好？"],["史部長哲：所有的報告數據，我們都會再提供給委員。"],["柯委員志恩：全部交給我，好不好？"],["主席：好，先同意解凍……"],["柯委員志恩：把資料給我。"],["主席：OK、OK，好、好。","第四案就准予動支，提報院會。","進行第五案，藝術發展業務，預算編列39億4,980萬5,000元，凍結200萬元。","請范雲委員。"],["范委員雲：部長，我提的這個案子是關於如何提升影視產業劇組的職業安全，因為當時發生了一些不幸的意外事件，但是對於影視及流行音樂產業局給的報告，我覺得還蠻不滿意的，好像是在原地踏步。你們從111年就是一個評估推廣的階段，在評估推廣階段結束後才能有所謂的影視人員成為安全維護人才、才能逐步推動由民間自主建立安全人才資料庫，後續才能夠基礎形成第三方輔導監督機制，這個階段一直都沒辦法往前走耶！因為還在第一個階段，從111年到現在已經2年了，所以影視及流行音樂產業局對這個部分要怎麼交代呢？我覺得好像沒有進度，這個是請部長回應一下嗎？"],["主席：范雲委員，現在是討論第五案藝術發展業務。"],["范委員雲：我是第五案裡面的耶！對，沒錯！"],["主席：可是剛剛你提的都與第五案比較沒有關係。"],["范委員雲：可是當時我的提案是被歸在第五案裡面，就是影視及流行音樂……"],["主席：沒有，第五案是藝術發展業務。"],["范委員雲：喔！第5目，歹勢！那是已經過了嗎？可不可以補給我一份書面報告？因為我把項目弄錯了，好不好？"],["主席：OK。"],["范委員雲：跟部長講一下，它完全沒有回應，而且是原地踏步，好不好？"],["主席：如果沒有意見的話，第五案就准予動支，提報院會。","第六案，文化資產業務，預算編列23億3,144萬2,000元，凍結100萬元。","請柯志恩委員。"],["柯委員志恩：只有100萬元，部長！但我還是要強調剛剛所質詢的建國啤酒廠，監委在2月的時候要廠勘啟動調查，我個人認為這個100萬對你們文化部而言真的是非常非常小的case，是不是可以等監委的調查報告出來之後再處理？我還是很誠懇的希望建國啤酒廠能以文化人的高度……它真的是被切割、被分割，所以我真的覺得要刀下留人。既然監委已經展開調查，我個人認為這個100萬應該等監委調查完畢之後再解凍，但最重要的還是要懇請部長能對這個案件多加瞭解，因為很多的專家、很多的學者、很多的居民，對這件事情是非常有意見的。所以我再一次請部長能夠對這件事情做出表態、做出處理，畢竟你是文化資產的最高負責人。因為只有100萬，部長，只有100萬而已啦！你們文化部三千多億都沒在怕了！"],["史部長哲：沒有三千多億。"],["柯委員志恩：沒有啦！我是說三十幾億都沒在怕了，只有100萬而已，監委在2月就開始啟動調查，是不是等他們的調查報告出來之後，再來做100萬的後續處理？100萬而已，沒有多少啦！如果讓8案直接通過，召委，說實在的，也讓人家覺得我們實在是太快速了。100萬，可不可以？需要更多態度的呈現啦！"],["主席：好，理解。先請吳思瑤委員發言。"],["吳委員思瑤：雖然我不是教文的委員，但是去年審這個預算時我是全程在場，其實今天我也是為了8案中的這一案而來。文化資產的辛苦就是因為它的經費一直是不夠的，我尊重志恩委員對於建國啤酒廠這個個案的一些看法以及基於監督所提出的見解，但是如果要等監委的調查報告，其實我覺得監委啟動它的程序去調查，無論如何我們都尊重監察院職權的行使，如果真的有處置不當的，監委會做出糾正或其他的處置，不要就這個個案的部分而影響了整體。雖然只有100萬，今天我就是為了這100萬來的，因為文化資產經費真的不夠、不夠、不夠！志恩姐，你的意見我們都聽到了……"],["柯委員志恩：文化資產的經費很不夠，因此，對於文化的保留，你更是應該強力監督，這樣才能符合你的目標與你的宗旨。"],["吳委員思瑤：等一下，如果是黃國昌在場就會說你插我話，但沒關係，我樂意被你插話、我樂意被你插話。"],["柯委員志恩：我的聲音沒有黃國昌那麼大、我的聲音算是平順好聽，所以你不會認為這是插話。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，OK。"],["主席：我們理性溝通是很好的。"],["吳委員思瑤：志恩姐，不然這樣，因為文化資產真的經費很少，而且監委不會2個月就完成調查，不可能！但是我們也希望監委能好好查、澈底查，完完全全的花很多時間去查，讓這件事情水落石出，提出一個良好政策方向的建議。如果你要凍其他的，OK，文化資產……"],["柯委員志恩：是不是在文化資產的部分、特別是在建國啤酒廠的部分，我希望文化部還是有人能夠再與本席討論文化部的態度、文化部到目前為止對這件事的處置方法，我認為文化部應該有聲音，這樣可不可以？"],["史部長哲：可以。"],["吳委員思瑤：請局長會後趕快去約志恩委員的時間，好不好？"],["史部長哲：沒有問題。"],["吳委員思瑤：她是非常理性問政的委員，一定要……"],["柯委員志恩：所以我這樣還算是插話嗎？"],["吳委員思瑤：不會，很好。"],["柯委員志恩：你的定義是插話嗎？"],["吳委員思瑤：插得好。"],["柯委員志恩：OK，好。"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝。"],["主席：柯志恩委員是同意解凍了？好，我也補充一下，關於文資修復永續性的問題，雖然我質詢過，但還是提醒一下，其實我們真的要持續吸引年輕的建築師進來，所以這個培育計畫要請文化部多多支持。另外，上次也與你溝通過，總報價法對於文資修復的建築師造成很大的困擾，這個部分的解放是不是也可以思考一下，好不好？","第六案就同意解凍，准予備查，提報院會。","討論第七案，電影事業輔導，預算編列9億2,713萬，凍結100萬元。請問各位委員有無意見？（無）無意見，第七案就同意解凍，准予動支，提報院會。","第八案，廣播電視事業輔導，預算編列9億8,205萬2,000元，凍結100萬元。請問各位委員有無意見？（無）無意見，第八案就同意解凍，准予動支，提報院會。","我們的8個解凍案均已處理完畢，接下來要處理2個臨時提案，請議事人員宣讀。","一、","依據《文化資產保存法》相關規定，地方主管機關應定期普查或接受個人、團體提報具保存價值之無形文化資產及文化資產保存技術及其保存者，並提交中央主管機關備查；中央主管機關得依地方主管機關提交備查及主動提報之名冊，審查並登錄為文化資產保存技術及保存者（以下簡稱人間國寶），人間國寶得以中央主管機關提供之計畫及補助傳習無形文化資產。然因現今不論地方或中央皆未針對人間國寶提報或登錄之審查標準及作業時間進行規範，導致人間國寶於登錄時年齡動輒高於國人平均壽命三歲以上，甚至十歲也大有人在。傳承重要技術需體力及現地訓練，不宜無所限制審查作業標準與時間，蹉跎人間國寶珍貴的歲月。","爰此，為確保人間國寶於登錄、授證後仍具充沛之體力與心力傳承無形文化資產之技術，請文化部於二個月內與各地方主管機關、專家學者、相關人民團體研商提報及登錄人間國寶之標準與作業流程、相關配套措施之精進規劃，並參據會議結論研議修訂提報、登錄及授證等程序。","提案人：陳培瑜　　林宜瑾","連署人：郭昱晴　　吳沛憶","二、","文策院2021年推出「國際合作投資專案計畫」（TICP），促進本土影視產業跨國合製，提升臺灣國際能見度。然而今年一月，卻傳出文策院將終止TICP，隨後又發布將用2.0方案取代，引起影視界軒然大波，百位影人錯愕不滿，發起連署抗議。影視界認為文策院政策反覆、不明，不但未針對TICP1.0的終止有正式公告，對於新舊方案的銜接配套，也全無事前溝通討論。","爰提案要求文策院，未來調整相關重大政策及投資方案時，應公開透明，並提前和業界溝通討論、充分徵詢意見，以維護影視產業的穩定、建立國際合作信任關係、利於發展臺灣影視國際合資合製。","提案人：范　雲　　林宜瑾　　陳培瑜　　郭昱晴"],["主席：提案人有沒有要說明？"],["范委員雲：沒有。"],["主席：部長？"],["史部長哲：第一案的2個月是不是能改成3個月？除此之外，其他的都遵照辦理。"],["郭委員昱晴：可以，這個部分就尊重文化部所提的3個月。"],["主席：第一案修正後通過。","第二案，提案人有沒有要說明？范雲？"],["范委員雲：沒有。"],["史部長哲：遵照辦理。"],["主席：第二案照案通過。","各提案若有委員要補簽，請議事人員詳細登載於議事錄。","接下來就繼續進行質詢，首先請鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員質詢，時間為4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","陳秀寳","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","羅廷瑋","葉元之","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林月琴","高金素梅","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅智強"],"page_start":241,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請文化部部長史哲列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預\n算有關文化部主管預算（公務預算）解凍案8案","agenda_id":"1132201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150525","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150525","tool":"pyannote","id":"150525-pyannote"},"job_id":"avf2GVGoroiThYe8","queued_at":"2024-06-01 18:20:04","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 18:20:04","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150525"},{"time":"2024-06-01 18:20:05","msg":"downloading 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 632.812, \"end\": 632.852, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 632.852, \"end\": 632.872, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,924 --> 00:00:05,105\n史哲列席報告\n\n2\n00:00:11,278 --> 00:00:27,001\n委員好部長好今天主要是跟您問兩題一個就是MeToo之後我們講補助相關的那個失格機制的進度那第二個就是文策院這個TICP2.0那之前有蠻多影視界有反彈的那未來我們如何避免這樣子的一個狀況那我想剛剛我有聽到郭玉琴委員她也有質詢到這個部分因為禮拜一\n\n3\n00:00:38,783 --> 00:00:45,189\n我跟國委員還有人本基金會我們共同揭露了戲曲學院非常包長期長達十幾年包庇兩師的性騷到嚴重的性侵未成年的學生那你有看到這個照片我們教育部的司長還出席公開致歉那會針對戲曲學院專案的處理跟檢討\n\n4\n00:01:04,687 --> 00:01:23,929\n當天我們有義文介的代表就是也針對文化部的相關範圍提出蠻多的要求不知道部長有沒有看到這個新聞有注意到那我想今天就是因為當天我們主要都是針對教育部那教育部也已經承諾要做蠻多的事那文化部的部分\n\n5\n00:01:24,189 --> 00:01:24,649\n二月27日及28日二天一次會議\n\n6\n00:01:40,706 --> 00:01:48,231\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。\n\n7\n00:02:07,003 --> 00:02:18,412\n非常難以公開的迷途我想無論從系取案或者是之前的藝文界的迷途那他們其實就是害怕封殺據說前途會被封殺所以噤聲那謝謝部長還有那個次長\n\n8\n00:02:25,618 --> 00:02:46,484\n二人均有積極承諾全面修正文化部及國會獎補助您剛剛也有略講了一下進度我想再細問一下因為本來是承諾去年底就要全部做完目前的情況是怎麼樣跟委員報告\n\n9\n00:02:51,937 --> 00:03:13,054\n一百零二項的補助要點當中都已經修正完畢了都已經納入說如果違反性柄則撤銷甚至追悔了所以這個都已經完成了相關的法制作業我剛剛的答覆只是說針對這個個案它如果不是這個申請的主體\n\n10\n00:03:14,312 --> 00:03:34,921\n不是這個辦法無法處理的部分那我謝謝史哲部長您剛有承諾再去想其他的方法那我現在回來講就是說我們文化部的資源可以處理到的因為我這邊手上的資訊是還有18項沒有完成那當然也要肯定就是說你們已經修正了84項我這個數字是對的嗎所以有修正了84項就是還有18項沒有完成是不是\n\n11\n00:03:45,213 --> 00:04:07,163\n應該說沒有完成修訂的不是他沒有修訂是他還在進行這個相關的程序比如說有些是需要公告時間有些是需要抱怨有些是對不是沒有那的確是我覺得已經完成88項相關講不出修正已經是一大工程那這個我要肯定那可是還沒有完成的可能就是程序比較複雜的\n\n12\n00:04:09,184 --> 00:04:27,713\n請問一下部長什麼時候都能夠完成因為他相關的程序應該就是難度比較高我們今年6月底一定會完成6月底喔?對因為我們520當然我相信就是說也希望我們史部長繼續連任這跟這個沒有關但為什麼要到6月底不能520呢?可能稍微\n\n13\n00:04:30,818 --> 00:04:49,446\n主要是因為它是在公告的程序或在核定的程序一定要到6月底是不是?一定要到6月底是不是?不是因為內容沒有修訂完成所以6月底就會完成所有的相關程序好那就拜託6月底一定要完成了好不好因為之前你們是說那個去年底嘛但我想這些可能就是特別程序比較複雜的\n\n14\n00:04:50,646 --> 00:04:51,808\n另外我也想問一個問題有沒有可能因為我們那些獎補助辦法是說他已經領了文化部的獎補助不管是國議會或者是文化部這裡可是那是他已經領了那這是在我們亡羊補牢\n\n15\n00:05:07,007 --> 00:05:24,690\n因為領了之後才發現他的性騷或者是嚴重性侵可是在他還沒有領之前我們能不能有一個前端的預防跟篩選的機制那這個部長就是你覺得有沒有可能在前端就能夠先處理呢因為像剛剛我們講的就是以戲曲院那兩位老師那您剛剛回應郭委員的是說你的獎補助不能處理的時候那如果\n\n16\n00:05:34,712 --> 00:05:58,167\n他來申請的話以你們目前現在的機制有辦法處理嗎跟委員報告我想他還沒有申請或他即將申請或申請當中我們都會依他現在是不是有經過這樣子案件的認定那像您剛剛所舉的這兩個個人他就會是變成是審查的時候很重要的依據\n\n17\n00:05:59,415 --> 00:06:13,996\n所以你們那邊會有一個性平事件的一個內部的一個資料庫是不是因為其實這樣的案子未來有可能會累積越來越多我想我們不宜去說有一個資料庫\n\n18\n00:06:14,497 --> 00:06:19,021\n但是我想他絕對會納入審查的依據我是覺得這個就跟我們教育部的老師我們要控管就是說不能夠讓他甚至連補習班都要求我們一起能夠運用到教育部相關的資料因為家長也會擔心他如果不能在正式體制到補習班的話那會不會影響他的未成年的兒童\n\n19\n00:06:39,099 --> 00:07:06,771\n那我是建議就是蔣補助是事後失格我們可以處理那文化部還是請你們能夠建立內部的性平事件資料庫因為相關的法規譬如說性侵可能相關是比較沒有個資問題可是其他的可能會相關其他不同法律的部分那可是你們蔣補助的審查機制跟一個內部性平事件的資料庫我覺得是還蠻有必要的那部長是不是可以答應我說針對這兩件事情\n\n20\n00:07:08,152 --> 00:07:31,402\n你們回去研議一下再給我辦公室一個報告好嗎?就是事前部分好謝謝喔那還有一點時間喔那有另外一件事就是我辦公室接到蠻多的陳情喔那我當時就針對你們TICP2.0方案一出的時候那您也有看到有百位引人不滿的連署喔那我辦公室就緊急辦了一個座談會\n\n21\n00:07:32,562 --> 00:07:56,737\n相關的意見我有跟文策院來回的溝通反映那我現在在思考的事情是也是未來如何不要發生這樣的事那我不知道文策院是不是有相關的反省我知道你們已經做了一些調整了是所以這個不滿是已經降低了未來如何不要發生這樣的一個大規模的抗議呢了解我想那個其實主要還是在一個溝通問題\n\n22\n00:07:58,037 --> 00:08:17,204\n這次TICP的方案的進行更新的過程當中我們的確有約了很多業者個別溝通但我自己疏忽的一點是我們並沒有做很大型公開的溝通讓大家可以具體集在一起集思廣益那可以請問你說跟業者個別溝通大概溝通了幾位對象幾個人大概溝通了有7、8位以上\n\n23\n00:08:19,445 --> 00:08:32,890\n七八位業界相關人士大概多少位不過其實因為主要過去TICP有來送件申請的公司也就大概這七八家但是潛在準備要申請的人不止吧是所以我認為說其實我們溝通的那個規模還不足\n\n24\n00:08:36,811 --> 00:09:00,595\n其實這個事件過後我們大概這一個多月大概已經舉行大概有十幾場大概各種說明會那未來各種方案的一些更新我們都會在事前做更大型的一個說明會好謝謝那可以請史部長回來一下那部長您有聽到就是說方案的改變不一定是壞事那我相信文策院也是想要做得更好可是這些文藝影視影視的相關的投資者他的規劃都是長期的嗎\n\n25\n00:09:05,516 --> 00:09:33,231\n就像我們在國科會申請一個研究案我今天要申請的不過百萬規模我可能準備就兩年一年所以你立刻改變的時候其實對他們影響非常大那剛剛文策院他溝通的人數是七八人可是潛在要申請的跟國外談吐的以我們看到的陳情資料其實他們是非常高度的不滿沒有事前溝通所以我希望那個史哲院長可以監督文策院就是未來\n\n26\n00:09:34,191 --> 00:09:50,867\n涉及投資方案的政策變動時應該要提前跟影視文化界公開的溝通討論這樣子可以嗎當然當然我會希望說我們不只是文策院我們相關所屬對就利害相關人嘛\n\n27\n00:09:51,127 --> 00:09:55,828\n對,就像我們學術界講補助要改變絕對是北中南你知道辦座談會而且是預告可能一兩年後的改變不會是立刻改變因為他已經準備今年要申請了那人家國外談妥人看到台灣政策變動就覺得投資環境不穩定我想這一次的檢討也希望部長能夠讓他們內部機制將來不要發生這樣的事\n\n28\n00:10:16,732 --> 00:10:20,136\n二、投資的審查會要保障懂合資合智的產業界代表參與\n\n29\n00:10:32,412 --> 00:10:32,872\n主席史哲列席報告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4924\t5105\t史哲列席報告\n11278\t27001\t委員好部長好今天主要是跟您問兩題一個就是MeToo之後我們講補助相關的那個失格機制的進度那第二個就是文策院這個TICP2.0那之前有蠻多影視界有反彈的那未來我們如何避免這樣子的一個狀況那我想剛剛我有聽到郭玉琴委員她也有質詢到這個部分因為禮拜一\n38783\t45189\t我跟國委員還有人本基金會我們共同揭露了戲曲學院非常包長期長達十幾年包庇兩師的性騷到嚴重的性侵未成年的學生那你有看到這個照片我們教育部的司長還出席公開致歉那會針對戲曲學院專案的處理跟檢討\n64687\t83929\t當天我們有義文介的代表就是也針對文化部的相關範圍提出蠻多的要求不知道部長有沒有看到這個新聞有注意到那我想今天就是因為當天我們主要都是針對教育部那教育部也已經承諾要做蠻多的事那文化部的部分\n84189\t84649\t二月27日及28日二天一次會議\n100706\t108231\t二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。\n127003\t138412\t非常難以公開的迷途我想無論從系取案或者是之前的藝文界的迷途那他們其實就是害怕封殺據說前途會被封殺所以噤聲那謝謝部長還有那個次長\n145618\t166484\t二人均有積極承諾全面修正文化部及國會獎補助您剛剛也有略講了一下進度我想再細問一下因為本來是承諾去年底就要全部做完目前的情況是怎麼樣跟委員報告\n171937\t193054\t一百零二項的補助要點當中都已經修正完畢了都已經納入說如果違反性柄則撤銷甚至追悔了所以這個都已經完成了相關的法制作業我剛剛的答覆只是說針對這個個案它如果不是這個申請的主體\n194312\t214921\t不是這個辦法無法處理的部分那我謝謝史哲部長您剛有承諾再去想其他的方法那我現在回來講就是說我們文化部的資源可以處理到的因為我這邊手上的資訊是還有18項沒有完成那當然也要肯定就是說你們已經修正了84項我這個數字是對的嗎所以有修正了84項就是還有18項沒有完成是不是\n225213\t247163\t應該說沒有完成修訂的不是他沒有修訂是他還在進行這個相關的程序比如說有些是需要公告時間有些是需要抱怨有些是對不是沒有那的確是我覺得已經完成88項相關講不出修正已經是一大工程那這個我要肯定那可是還沒有完成的可能就是程序比較複雜的\n249184\t267713\t請問一下部長什麼時候都能夠完成因為他相關的程序應該就是難度比較高我們今年6月底一定會完成6月底喔?對因為我們520當然我相信就是說也希望我們史部長繼續連任這跟這個沒有關但為什麼要到6月底不能520呢?可能稍微\n270818\t289446\t主要是因為它是在公告的程序或在核定的程序一定要到6月底是不是?一定要到6月底是不是?不是因為內容沒有修訂完成所以6月底就會完成所有的相關程序好 那就拜託6月底一定要完成了好不好因為之前你們是說那個去年底嘛但我想這些可能就是特別程序比較複雜的\n290646\t291808\t另外我也想問一個問題有沒有可能因為我們那些獎補助辦法是說他已經領了文化部的獎補助不管是國議會或者是文化部這裡可是那是他已經領了那這是在我們亡羊補牢\n307007\t324690\t因為領了之後才發現他的性騷或者是嚴重性侵可是在他還沒有領之前我們能不能有一個前端的預防跟篩選的機制那這個部長就是你覺得有沒有可能在前端就能夠先處理呢因為像剛剛我們講的就是以戲曲院那兩位老師那您剛剛回應郭委員的是說你的獎補助不能處理的時候那如果\n334712\t358167\t他來申請的話以你們目前現在的機制有辦法處理嗎跟委員報告我想他還沒有申請或他即將申請或申請當中我們都會依他現在是不是有經過這樣子案件的認定那像您剛剛所舉的這兩個個人他就會是變成是審查的時候很重要的依據\n359415\t373996\t所以你們那邊會有一個性平事件的一個內部的一個資料庫是不是因為其實這樣的案子未來有可能會累積越來越多我想我們不宜去說有一個資料庫\n374497\t379021\t但是我想他絕對會納入審查的依據我是覺得這個就跟我們教育部的老師我們要控管就是說不能夠讓他甚至連補習班都要求我們一起能夠運用到教育部相關的資料因為家長也會擔心他如果不能在正式體制到補習班的話那會不會影響他的未成年的兒童\n399099\t426771\t那我是建議就是蔣補助是事後失格我們可以處理那文化部還是請你們能夠建立內部的性平事件資料庫因為相關的法規譬如說性侵可能相關是比較沒有個資問題可是其他的可能會相關其他不同法律的部分那可是你們蔣補助的審查機制跟一個內部性平事件的資料庫我覺得是還蠻有必要的那部長是不是可以答應我說針對這兩件事情\n428152\t451402\t你們回去研議一下再給我辦公室一個報告好嗎?就是事前部分好謝謝喔那還有一點時間喔那有另外一件事就是我辦公室接到蠻多的陳情喔那我當時就針對你們TICP2.0方案一出的時候那您也有看到有百位引人不滿的連署喔那我辦公室就緊急辦了一個座談會\n452562\t476737\t相關的意見我有跟文策院來回的溝通反映那我現在在思考的事情是也是未來如何不要發生這樣的事那我不知道文策院是不是有相關的反省我知道你們已經做了一些調整了是所以這個不滿是已經降低了未來如何不要發生這樣的一個大規模的抗議呢了解我想那個其實主要還是在一個溝通問題\n478037\t497204\t這次TICP的方案的進行更新的過程當中我們的確有約了很多業者個別溝通但我自己疏忽的一點是我們並沒有做很大型公開的溝通讓大家可以具體集在一起集思廣益那可以請問你說跟業者個別溝通大概溝通了幾位對象幾個人大概溝通了有7、8位以上\n499445\t512890\t七八位業界相關人士大概多少位不過其實因為主要過去TICP有來送件申請的公司也就大概這七八家但是潛在準備要申請的人不止吧是 所以我認為說其實我們溝通的那個規模還不足\n516811\t540595\t其實這個事件過後我們大概這一個多月大概已經舉行大概有十幾場大概各種說明會那未來各種方案的一些更新我們都會在事前做更大型的一個說明會好 謝謝那可以請史部長回來一下那部長您有聽到就是說方案的改變不一定是壞事那我相信文策院也是想要做得更好可是這些文藝影視影視的相關的投資者他的規劃都是長期的嗎\n545516\t573231\t就像我們在國科會申請一個研究案我今天要申請的不過百萬規模我可能準備就兩年一年所以你立刻改變的時候其實對他們影響非常大那剛剛文策院他溝通的人數是七八人可是潛在要申請的跟國外談吐的以我們看到的陳情資料其實他們是非常高度的不滿沒有事前溝通所以我希望那個史哲院長可以監督文策院就是未來\n574191\t590867\t涉及投資方案的政策變動時應該要提前跟影視文化界公開的溝通討論這樣子可以嗎當然當然我會希望說我們不只是文策院我們相關所屬對就利害相關人嘛\n591127\t595828\t對,就像我們學術界講補助要改變絕對是北中南你知道辦座談會而且是預告可能一兩年後的改變不會是立刻改變因為他已經準備今年要申請了那人家國外談妥人看到台灣政策變動就覺得投資環境不穩定我想這一次的檢討也希望部長能夠讓他們內部機制將來不要發生這樣的事\n616732\t620136\t二、投資的審查會要保障懂合資合智的產業界代表參與\n632412\t632872\t主席史哲列席報告\n","txt":"史哲列席報告\n委員好部長好今天主要是跟您問兩題一個就是MeToo之後我們講補助相關的那個失格機制的進度那第二個就是文策院這個TICP2.0那之前有蠻多影視界有反彈的那未來我們如何避免這樣子的一個狀況那我想剛剛我有聽到郭玉琴委員她也有質詢到這個部分因為禮拜一\n我跟國委員還有人本基金會我們共同揭露了戲曲學院非常包長期長達十幾年包庇兩師的性騷到嚴重的性侵未成年的學生那你有看到這個照片我們教育部的司長還出席公開致歉那會針對戲曲學院專案的處理跟檢討\n當天我們有義文介的代表就是也針對文化部的相關範圍提出蠻多的要求不知道部長有沒有看到這個新聞有注意到那我想今天就是因為當天我們主要都是針對教育部那教育部也已經承諾要做蠻多的事那文化部的部分\n二月27日及28日二天一次會議\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。\n非常難以公開的迷途我想無論從系取案或者是之前的藝文界的迷途那他們其實就是害怕封殺據說前途會被封殺所以噤聲那謝謝部長還有那個次長\n二人均有積極承諾全面修正文化部及國會獎補助您剛剛也有略講了一下進度我想再細問一下因為本來是承諾去年底就要全部做完目前的情況是怎麼樣跟委員報告\n一百零二項的補助要點當中都已經修正完畢了都已經納入說如果違反性柄則撤銷甚至追悔了所以這個都已經完成了相關的法制作業我剛剛的答覆只是說針對這個個案它如果不是這個申請的主體\n不是這個辦法無法處理的部分那我謝謝史哲部長您剛有承諾再去想其他的方法那我現在回來講就是說我們文化部的資源可以處理到的因為我這邊手上的資訊是還有18項沒有完成那當然也要肯定就是說你們已經修正了84項我這個數字是對的嗎所以有修正了84項就是還有18項沒有完成是不是\n應該說沒有完成修訂的不是他沒有修訂是他還在進行這個相關的程序比如說有些是需要公告時間有些是需要抱怨有些是對不是沒有那的確是我覺得已經完成88項相關講不出修正已經是一大工程那這個我要肯定那可是還沒有完成的可能就是程序比較複雜的\n請問一下部長什麼時候都能夠完成因為他相關的程序應該就是難度比較高我們今年6月底一定會完成6月底喔?對因為我們520當然我相信就是說也希望我們史部長繼續連任這跟這個沒有關但為什麼要到6月底不能520呢?可能稍微\n主要是因為它是在公告的程序或在核定的程序一定要到6月底是不是?一定要到6月底是不是?不是因為內容沒有修訂完成所以6月底就會完成所有的相關程序好 那就拜託6月底一定要完成了好不好因為之前你們是說那個去年底嘛但我想這些可能就是特別程序比較複雜的\n另外我也想問一個問題有沒有可能因為我們那些獎補助辦法是說他已經領了文化部的獎補助不管是國議會或者是文化部這裡可是那是他已經領了那這是在我們亡羊補牢\n因為領了之後才發現他的性騷或者是嚴重性侵可是在他還沒有領之前我們能不能有一個前端的預防跟篩選的機制那這個部長就是你覺得有沒有可能在前端就能夠先處理呢因為像剛剛我們講的就是以戲曲院那兩位老師那您剛剛回應郭委員的是說你的獎補助不能處理的時候那如果\n他來申請的話以你們目前現在的機制有辦法處理嗎跟委員報告我想他還沒有申請或他即將申請或申請當中我們都會依他現在是不是有經過這樣子案件的認定那像您剛剛所舉的這兩個個人他就會是變成是審查的時候很重要的依據\n所以你們那邊會有一個性平事件的一個內部的一個資料庫是不是因為其實這樣的案子未來有可能會累積越來越多我想我們不宜去說有一個資料庫\n但是我想他絕對會納入審查的依據我是覺得這個就跟我們教育部的老師我們要控管就是說不能夠讓他甚至連補習班都要求我們一起能夠運用到教育部相關的資料因為家長也會擔心他如果不能在正式體制到補習班的話那會不會影響他的未成年的兒童\n那我是建議就是蔣補助是事後失格我們可以處理那文化部還是請你們能夠建立內部的性平事件資料庫因為相關的法規譬如說性侵可能相關是比較沒有個資問題可是其他的可能會相關其他不同法律的部分那可是你們蔣補助的審查機制跟一個內部性平事件的資料庫我覺得是還蠻有必要的那部長是不是可以答應我說針對這兩件事情\n你們回去研議一下再給我辦公室一個報告好嗎?就是事前部分好謝謝喔那還有一點時間喔那有另外一件事就是我辦公室接到蠻多的陳情喔那我當時就針對你們TICP2.0方案一出的時候那您也有看到有百位引人不滿的連署喔那我辦公室就緊急辦了一個座談會\n相關的意見我有跟文策院來回的溝通反映那我現在在思考的事情是也是未來如何不要發生這樣的事那我不知道文策院是不是有相關的反省我知道你們已經做了一些調整了是所以這個不滿是已經降低了未來如何不要發生這樣的一個大規模的抗議呢了解我想那個其實主要還是在一個溝通問題\n這次TICP的方案的進行更新的過程當中我們的確有約了很多業者個別溝通但我自己疏忽的一點是我們並沒有做很大型公開的溝通讓大家可以具體集在一起集思廣益那可以請問你說跟業者個別溝通大概溝通了幾位對象幾個人大概溝通了有7、8位以上\n七八位業界相關人士大概多少位不過其實因為主要過去TICP有來送件申請的公司也就大概這七八家但是潛在準備要申請的人不止吧是 所以我認為說其實我們溝通的那個規模還不足\n其實這個事件過後我們大概這一個多月大概已經舉行大概有十幾場大概各種說明會那未來各種方案的一些更新我們都會在事前做更大型的一個說明會好 謝謝那可以請史部長回來一下那部長您有聽到就是說方案的改變不一定是壞事那我相信文策院也是想要做得更好可是這些文藝影視影視的相關的投資者他的規劃都是長期的嗎\n就像我們在國科會申請一個研究案我今天要申請的不過百萬規模我可能準備就兩年一年所以你立刻改變的時候其實對他們影響非常大那剛剛文策院他溝通的人數是七八人可是潛在要申請的跟國外談吐的以我們看到的陳情資料其實他們是非常高度的不滿沒有事前溝通所以我希望那個史哲院長可以監督文策院就是未來\n涉及投資方案的政策變動時應該要提前跟影視文化界公開的溝通討論這樣子可以嗎當然當然我會希望說我們不只是文策院我們相關所屬對就利害相關人嘛\n對,就像我們學術界講補助要改變絕對是北中南你知道辦座談會而且是預告可能一兩年後的改變不會是立刻改變因為他已經準備今年要申請了那人家國外談妥人看到台灣政策變動就覺得投資環境不穩定我想這一次的檢討也希望部長能夠讓他們內部機制將來不要發生這樣的事\n二、投資的審查會要保障懂合資合智的產業界代表參與\n主席史哲列席報告\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.924 --> 00:05.105\n史哲列席報告\n\n00:11.278 --> 00:27.001\n委員好部長好今天主要是跟您問兩題一個就是MeToo之後我們講補助相關的那個失格機制的進度那第二個就是文策院這個TICP2.0那之前有蠻多影視界有反彈的那未來我們如何避免這樣子的一個狀況那我想剛剛我有聽到郭玉琴委員她也有質詢到這個部分因為禮拜一\n\n00:38.783 --> 00:45.189\n我跟國委員還有人本基金會我們共同揭露了戲曲學院非常包長期長達十幾年包庇兩師的性騷到嚴重的性侵未成年的學生那你有看到這個照片我們教育部的司長還出席公開致歉那會針對戲曲學院專案的處理跟檢討\n\n01:04.687 --> 01:23.929\n當天我們有義文介的代表就是也針對文化部的相關範圍提出蠻多的要求不知道部長有沒有看到這個新聞有注意到那我想今天就是因為當天我們主要都是針對教育部那教育部也已經承諾要做蠻多的事那文化部的部分\n\n01:24.189 --> 01:24.649\n二月27日及28日二天一次會議\n\n01:40.706 --> 01:48.231\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。\n\n02:07.003 --> 02:18.412\n非常難以公開的迷途我想無論從系取案或者是之前的藝文界的迷途那他們其實就是害怕封殺據說前途會被封殺所以噤聲那謝謝部長還有那個次長\n\n02:25.618 --> 02:46.484\n二人均有積極承諾全面修正文化部及國會獎補助您剛剛也有略講了一下進度我想再細問一下因為本來是承諾去年底就要全部做完目前的情況是怎麼樣跟委員報告\n\n02:51.937 --> 03:13.054\n一百零二項的補助要點當中都已經修正完畢了都已經納入說如果違反性柄則撤銷甚至追悔了所以這個都已經完成了相關的法制作業我剛剛的答覆只是說針對這個個案它如果不是這個申請的主體\n\n03:14.312 --> 03:34.921\n不是這個辦法無法處理的部分那我謝謝史哲部長您剛有承諾再去想其他的方法那我現在回來講就是說我們文化部的資源可以處理到的因為我這邊手上的資訊是還有18項沒有完成那當然也要肯定就是說你們已經修正了84項我這個數字是對的嗎所以有修正了84項就是還有18項沒有完成是不是\n\n03:45.213 --> 04:07.163\n應該說沒有完成修訂的不是他沒有修訂是他還在進行這個相關的程序比如說有些是需要公告時間有些是需要抱怨有些是對不是沒有那的確是我覺得已經完成88項相關講不出修正已經是一大工程那這個我要肯定那可是還沒有完成的可能就是程序比較複雜的\n\n04:09.184 --> 04:27.713\n請問一下部長什麼時候都能夠完成因為他相關的程序應該就是難度比較高我們今年6月底一定會完成6月底喔?對因為我們520當然我相信就是說也希望我們史部長繼續連任這跟這個沒有關但為什麼要到6月底不能520呢?可能稍微\n\n04:30.818 --> 04:49.446\n主要是因為它是在公告的程序或在核定的程序一定要到6月底是不是?一定要到6月底是不是?不是因為內容沒有修訂完成所以6月底就會完成所有的相關程序好那就拜託6月底一定要完成了好不好因為之前你們是說那個去年底嘛但我想這些可能就是特別程序比較複雜的\n\n04:50.646 --> 04:51.808\n另外我也想問一個問題有沒有可能因為我們那些獎補助辦法是說他已經領了文化部的獎補助不管是國議會或者是文化部這裡可是那是他已經領了那這是在我們亡羊補牢\n\n05:07.007 --> 05:24.690\n因為領了之後才發現他的性騷或者是嚴重性侵可是在他還沒有領之前我們能不能有一個前端的預防跟篩選的機制那這個部長就是你覺得有沒有可能在前端就能夠先處理呢因為像剛剛我們講的就是以戲曲院那兩位老師那您剛剛回應郭委員的是說你的獎補助不能處理的時候那如果\n\n05:34.712 --> 05:58.167\n他來申請的話以你們目前現在的機制有辦法處理嗎跟委員報告我想他還沒有申請或他即將申請或申請當中我們都會依他現在是不是有經過這樣子案件的認定那像您剛剛所舉的這兩個個人他就會是變成是審查的時候很重要的依據\n\n05:59.415 --> 06:13.996\n所以你們那邊會有一個性平事件的一個內部的一個資料庫是不是因為其實這樣的案子未來有可能會累積越來越多我想我們不宜去說有一個資料庫\n\n06:14.497 --> 06:19.021\n但是我想他絕對會納入審查的依據我是覺得這個就跟我們教育部的老師我們要控管就是說不能夠讓他甚至連補習班都要求我們一起能夠運用到教育部相關的資料因為家長也會擔心他如果不能在正式體制到補習班的話那會不會影響他的未成年的兒童\n\n06:39.099 --> 07:06.771\n那我是建議就是蔣補助是事後失格我們可以處理那文化部還是請你們能夠建立內部的性平事件資料庫因為相關的法規譬如說性侵可能相關是比較沒有個資問題可是其他的可能會相關其他不同法律的部分那可是你們蔣補助的審查機制跟一個內部性平事件的資料庫我覺得是還蠻有必要的那部長是不是可以答應我說針對這兩件事情\n\n07:08.152 --> 07:31.402\n你們回去研議一下再給我辦公室一個報告好嗎?就是事前部分好謝謝喔那還有一點時間喔那有另外一件事就是我辦公室接到蠻多的陳情喔那我當時就針對你們TICP2.0方案一出的時候那您也有看到有百位引人不滿的連署喔那我辦公室就緊急辦了一個座談會\n\n07:32.562 --> 07:56.737\n相關的意見我有跟文策院來回的溝通反映那我現在在思考的事情是也是未來如何不要發生這樣的事那我不知道文策院是不是有相關的反省我知道你們已經做了一些調整了是所以這個不滿是已經降低了未來如何不要發生這樣的一個大規模的抗議呢了解我想那個其實主要還是在一個溝通問題\n\n07:58.037 --> 08:17.204\n這次TICP的方案的進行更新的過程當中我們的確有約了很多業者個別溝通但我自己疏忽的一點是我們並沒有做很大型公開的溝通讓大家可以具體集在一起集思廣益那可以請問你說跟業者個別溝通大概溝通了幾位對象幾個人大概溝通了有7、8位以上\n\n08:19.445 --> 08:32.890\n七八位業界相關人士大概多少位不過其實因為主要過去TICP有來送件申請的公司也就大概這七八家但是潛在準備要申請的人不止吧是所以我認為說其實我們溝通的那個規模還不足\n\n08:36.811 --> 09:00.595\n其實這個事件過後我們大概這一個多月大概已經舉行大概有十幾場大概各種說明會那未來各種方案的一些更新我們都會在事前做更大型的一個說明會好謝謝那可以請史部長回來一下那部長您有聽到就是說方案的改變不一定是壞事那我相信文策院也是想要做得更好可是這些文藝影視影視的相關的投資者他的規劃都是長期的嗎\n\n09:05.516 --> 09:33.231\n就像我們在國科會申請一個研究案我今天要申請的不過百萬規模我可能準備就兩年一年所以你立刻改變的時候其實對他們影響非常大那剛剛文策院他溝通的人數是七八人可是潛在要申請的跟國外談吐的以我們看到的陳情資料其實他們是非常高度的不滿沒有事前溝通所以我希望那個史哲院長可以監督文策院就是未來\n\n09:34.191 --> 09:50.867\n涉及投資方案的政策變動時應該要提前跟影視文化界公開的溝通討論這樣子可以嗎當然當然我會希望說我們不只是文策院我們相關所屬對就利害相關人嘛\n\n09:51.127 --> 09:55.828\n對,就像我們學術界講補助要改變絕對是北中南你知道辦座談會而且是預告可能一兩年後的改變不會是立刻改變因為他已經準備今年要申請了那人家國外談妥人看到台灣政策變動就覺得投資環境不穩定我想這一次的檢討也希望部長能夠讓他們內部機制將來不要發生這樣的事\n\n10:16.732 --> 10:20.136\n二、投資的審查會要保障懂合資合智的產業界代表參與\n\n10:32.412 --> 10:32.872\n主席史哲列席報告\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.924,"end":5.105,"text":"史哲列席報告"},{"start":11.278,"end":27.001,"text":"委員好部長好今天主要是跟您問兩題一個就是MeToo之後我們講補助相關的那個失格機制的進度那第二個就是文策院這個TICP2.0那之前有蠻多影視界有反彈的那未來我們如何避免這樣子的一個狀況那我想剛剛我有聽到郭玉琴委員她也有質詢到這個部分因為禮拜一"},{"start":38.783,"end":45.189,"text":"我跟國委員還有人本基金會我們共同揭露了戲曲學院非常包長期長達十幾年包庇兩師的性騷到嚴重的性侵未成年的學生那你有看到這個照片我們教育部的司長還出席公開致歉那會針對戲曲學院專案的處理跟檢討"},{"start":64.687,"end":83.929,"text":"當天我們有義文介的代表就是也針對文化部的相關範圍提出蠻多的要求不知道部長有沒有看到這個新聞有注意到那我想今天就是因為當天我們主要都是針對教育部那教育部也已經承諾要做蠻多的事那文化部的部分"},{"start":84.189,"end":84.649,"text":"二月27日及28日二天一次會議"},{"start":100.706,"end":108.231,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部部長史哲列席報告。"},{"start":127.003,"end":138.412,"text":"非常難以公開的迷途我想無論從系取案或者是之前的藝文界的迷途那他們其實就是害怕封殺據說前途會被封殺所以噤聲那謝謝部長還有那個次長"},{"start":145.618,"end":166.484,"text":"二人均有積極承諾全面修正文化部及國會獎補助您剛剛也有略講了一下進度我想再細問一下因為本來是承諾去年底就要全部做完目前的情況是怎麼樣跟委員報告"},{"start":171.937,"end":193.054,"text":"一百零二項的補助要點當中都已經修正完畢了都已經納入說如果違反性柄則撤銷甚至追悔了所以這個都已經完成了相關的法制作業我剛剛的答覆只是說針對這個個案它如果不是這個申請的主體"},{"start":194.312,"end":214.921,"text":"不是這個辦法無法處理的部分那我謝謝史哲部長您剛有承諾再去想其他的方法那我現在回來講就是說我們文化部的資源可以處理到的因為我這邊手上的資訊是還有18項沒有完成那當然也要肯定就是說你們已經修正了84項我這個數字是對的嗎所以有修正了84項就是還有18項沒有完成是不是"},{"start":225.213,"end":247.163,"text":"應該說沒有完成修訂的不是他沒有修訂是他還在進行這個相關的程序比如說有些是需要公告時間有些是需要抱怨有些是對不是沒有那的確是我覺得已經完成88項相關講不出修正已經是一大工程那這個我要肯定那可是還沒有完成的可能就是程序比較複雜的"},{"start":249.184,"end":267.713,"text":"請問一下部長什麼時候都能夠完成因為他相關的程序應該就是難度比較高我們今年6月底一定會完成6月底喔?對因為我們520當然我相信就是說也希望我們史部長繼續連任這跟這個沒有關但為什麼要到6月底不能520呢?可能稍微"},{"start":270.818,"end":289.446,"text":"主要是因為它是在公告的程序或在核定的程序一定要到6月底是不是?一定要到6月底是不是?不是因為內容沒有修訂完成所以6月底就會完成所有的相關程序好 那就拜託6月底一定要完成了好不好因為之前你們是說那個去年底嘛但我想這些可能就是特別程序比較複雜的"},{"start":290.646,"end":291.808,"text":"另外我也想問一個問題有沒有可能因為我們那些獎補助辦法是說他已經領了文化部的獎補助不管是國議會或者是文化部這裡可是那是他已經領了那這是在我們亡羊補牢"},{"start":307.007,"end":324.69,"text":"因為領了之後才發現他的性騷或者是嚴重性侵可是在他還沒有領之前我們能不能有一個前端的預防跟篩選的機制那這個部長就是你覺得有沒有可能在前端就能夠先處理呢因為像剛剛我們講的就是以戲曲院那兩位老師那您剛剛回應郭委員的是說你的獎補助不能處理的時候那如果"},{"start":334.712,"end":358.167,"text":"他來申請的話以你們目前現在的機制有辦法處理嗎跟委員報告我想他還沒有申請或他即將申請或申請當中我們都會依他現在是不是有經過這樣子案件的認定那像您剛剛所舉的這兩個個人他就會是變成是審查的時候很重要的依據"},{"start":359.415,"end":373.996,"text":"所以你們那邊會有一個性平事件的一個內部的一個資料庫是不是因為其實這樣的案子未來有可能會累積越來越多我想我們不宜去說有一個資料庫"},{"start":374.497,"end":379.021,"text":"但是我想他絕對會納入審查的依據我是覺得這個就跟我們教育部的老師我們要控管就是說不能夠讓他甚至連補習班都要求我們一起能夠運用到教育部相關的資料因為家長也會擔心他如果不能在正式體制到補習班的話那會不會影響他的未成年的兒童"},{"start":399.099,"end":426.771,"text":"那我是建議就是蔣補助是事後失格我們可以處理那文化部還是請你們能夠建立內部的性平事件資料庫因為相關的法規譬如說性侵可能相關是比較沒有個資問題可是其他的可能會相關其他不同法律的部分那可是你們蔣補助的審查機制跟一個內部性平事件的資料庫我覺得是還蠻有必要的那部長是不是可以答應我說針對這兩件事情"},{"start":428.152,"end":451.402,"text":"你們回去研議一下再給我辦公室一個報告好嗎?就是事前部分好謝謝喔那還有一點時間喔那有另外一件事就是我辦公室接到蠻多的陳情喔那我當時就針對你們TICP2.0方案一出的時候那您也有看到有百位引人不滿的連署喔那我辦公室就緊急辦了一個座談會"},{"start":452.562,"end":476.737,"text":"相關的意見我有跟文策院來回的溝通反映那我現在在思考的事情是也是未來如何不要發生這樣的事那我不知道文策院是不是有相關的反省我知道你們已經做了一些調整了是所以這個不滿是已經降低了未來如何不要發生這樣的一個大規模的抗議呢了解我想那個其實主要還是在一個溝通問題"},{"start":478.037,"end":497.204,"text":"這次TICP的方案的進行更新的過程當中我們的確有約了很多業者個別溝通但我自己疏忽的一點是我們並沒有做很大型公開的溝通讓大家可以具體集在一起集思廣益那可以請問你說跟業者個別溝通大概溝通了幾位對象幾個人大概溝通了有7、8位以上"},{"start":499.445,"end":512.89,"text":"七八位業界相關人士大概多少位不過其實因為主要過去TICP有來送件申請的公司也就大概這七八家但是潛在準備要申請的人不止吧是 所以我認為說其實我們溝通的那個規模還不足"},{"start":516.811,"end":540.595,"text":"其實這個事件過後我們大概這一個多月大概已經舉行大概有十幾場大概各種說明會那未來各種方案的一些更新我們都會在事前做更大型的一個說明會好 謝謝那可以請史部長回來一下那部長您有聽到就是說方案的改變不一定是壞事那我相信文策院也是想要做得更好可是這些文藝影視影視的相關的投資者他的規劃都是長期的嗎"},{"start":545.516,"end":573.231,"text":"就像我們在國科會申請一個研究案我今天要申請的不過百萬規模我可能準備就兩年一年所以你立刻改變的時候其實對他們影響非常大那剛剛文策院他溝通的人數是七八人可是潛在要申請的跟國外談吐的以我們看到的陳情資料其實他們是非常高度的不滿沒有事前溝通所以我希望那個史哲院長可以監督文策院就是未來"},{"start":574.191,"end":590.867,"text":"涉及投資方案的政策變動時應該要提前跟影視文化界公開的溝通討論這樣子可以嗎當然當然我會希望說我們不只是文策院我們相關所屬對就利害相關人嘛"},{"start":591.127,"end":595.828,"text":"對,就像我們學術界講補助要改變絕對是北中南你知道辦座談會而且是預告可能一兩年後的改變不會是立刻改變因為他已經準備今年要申請了那人家國外談妥人看到台灣政策變動就覺得投資環境不穩定我想這一次的檢討也希望部長能夠讓他們內部機制將來不要發生這樣的事"},{"start":616.732,"end":620.136,"text":"二、投資的審查會要保障懂合資合智的產業界代表參與"},{"start":632.412,"end":632.872,"text":"主席史哲列席報告"}]}}}}