{"id":150528,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150528","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5502261c189a737b9edc5a8dea5ca6478f8ba9b0039caa7a6cedd0ffdca60b9965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"12:24:43 - 12:31:08","影片長度":"00:06:25","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-5"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":385,"end_time":"2024-03-27T12:31:08+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T12:24:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1174,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（12時24分）好，謝謝主席。有請主計總處跟經濟部。"],["主席：朱主計長還有曾次長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：今天我們一樣要好好討論一下漲電價的問題，尤其是要請主計長好好評價一下最近經濟部令人傻眼的政策溝通模式。","剛剛羅委員應該講得很清楚，大概很難找到只有店面陳列，然後麵包不用烤的這種烘焙坊嘛！對不對？這件事情當然被網友酸爆，因為大家都覺得說怎麼可能有這樣的事呢？即便你只是陳列，因為前端也是要烘焙嘛！對不對？這個漲幅一定會有所轉嫁，所以這當然被人家罵爆。那我覺得經濟部處理也是很天才啦！罵爆之後，然後又變了一個版本，說我可以改用離峰時段的用電啊！我還可以幫你節省1萬7,000元啊！","那我就代表人民提一下質詢。大家都問說，請問哪一家烘焙坊可以半夜烤麵包啊？次長，你要不要回答一下哪家烘焙坊在半夜烤麵包？為了省電費。"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，現在離峰的電價不只半夜，白天也是。"],["牛委員煦庭：它還有半離峰嘛！你不要鬼扯了啦！"],["曾次長文生：這不是鬼扯，這是事實。"],["牛委員煦庭：這是事實喔？"],["曾次長文生：對啊！就是有離峰，有各種不同的尖、離峰電價時間，店家可以選擇。"],["牛委員煦庭：以你對烘焙產業的了解，他們是可以配合你電價的調整，然後去改變它的產品出貨的時間嗎？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，就是說它現在……"],["牛委員煦庭：半離峰的時候就是在賣的時候，所有東西都要準備好了嘛！對不對？"],["曾次長文生：我這樣講，他們要迴避的最主要就是夜尖峰，就是16點到22點這段時間。依照我們看到烘焙坊真的有烘焙設備、烤箱的，事實上是真的可以做這個調節。但是我還是要再說一次，前面這個我們舉的例子，我們是要去找700度以下的例子，我們找了這一個……"],["牛委員煦庭：對，你就找了一個荒唐例子。"],["曾次長文生：那是連鎖烘焙坊。"],["牛委員煦庭：我告訴你，你要叫他改時間，也是很奇怪啦！除非你可以很清楚地講說哪些麵包店因為你這樣的政策，然後真的改變了時間。有嗎？"],["曾次長文生：我這樣說，我們有具體的例子，確實有他們開始調整為低壓的時間電價，那個對於他們整個電費的調整是有幫助的，我有具體的案例，這個有。但我還是要再說一次，我們本來要找一個700度以下，找了一個北部連鎖麵包坊，這個例子真的是……台電選這個例子選得不好，我想說我……"],["牛委員煦庭：次長，我直接問比較大的問題。貴部的部長，王美花部長直接講說產業不要調漲物價就好了啊！請問這句話是做得到的嗎？"],["曾次長文生：我想他好像不是這樣講啦！"],["牛委員煦庭：他好像不是這樣講？"],["曾次長文生：他沒有說產業不要調漲物價就好了，應該不是這個樣子。"],["牛委員煦庭：那他是怎麼講的？"],["曾次長文生：我覺得那個本意應該是這樣，就是說我們的電價調整，在每個不同的產業類別，它對於生產成本提升的反應會有不同。我們也是試算了，就是如果這個事情讓大家所有的東西都漲，這也不見得完全合理。我們只是在講說描述……我想說這一個部分，因為部長表達也透過媒體報導，那我知道的狀況是說，我們這一個調整，主要是我們針對很多直接影響民生……"],["牛委員煦庭：我跟你講，電價上漲帶動通貨膨脹的理據是非常簡單的，因為大家生產都是產業鏈嘛！你電價上漲，幾乎整條產業鏈都會受到影響，不是嗎？從源頭一路到零售都會影響不是嗎？"],["曾次長文生：因為臺灣的電力結構是這樣子，我們的製造業大概占了六成，很多出口……"],["牛委員煦庭：沒有！你直接講啦！貴部的部長講說業界不要漲物價就好，這句話做不做得到？如果沒有做到，誰負責？我想問的是誰負責？"],["曾次長文生：委員，我想部長應該不是直接講不要漲物價。"],["牛委員煦庭：次長，那這樣子，我直接問你啦！這一波電價調漲會不會帶動通貨膨脹？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，就是說它會根據不同的，會有不同的impact，會有影響的……"],["牛委員煦庭：你不要跟我講會有不同的影響，會不會帶動通貨膨脹？"],["曾次長文生：漲了電價對CPI會有影響，這一點事情是確定的。漲了電價，當然……"],["牛委員煦庭：幅度是多少？"],["曾次長文生：幅度，今天我們的報告……"],["牛委員煦庭：來，主計長說明一下。你報告有寫吧？總不會答不出來。來，主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們主計總處的估計大概是……"],["牛委員煦庭：百分之……"],["朱主計長澤民：0.18。"],["牛委員煦庭：0.18？"],["朱主計長澤民：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：你要不要立軍令狀？實質上超過的時候誰負責？"],["朱主計長澤民：預測沒有立軍令狀的啦！因為是不同的情事，會有不同的結果……"],["牛委員煦庭：不同的情事又有不同的變化？"],["朱主計長澤民：所以我們大概每3個月就會去做一次預測的修正。"],["牛委員煦庭：主計長，你認不認同經濟部用700度以下，用烘焙坊當成案例？"],["朱主計長澤民：詳細的情況，我對烘焙業不了解。"],["牛委員煦庭：你不了解喔？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，我……"],["牛委員煦庭：你不是很了解小吃的價格嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：價格……我也不管到製造過程，大家都以為你既管這個，又管那個，那就是人家說我主計治國了。"],["牛委員煦庭：但是，主計長，製造的過程應該有用電的問題吧？這是常識，你應該不會反對。"],["朱主計長澤民：對啦！對啦！但是我對什麼尖峰、離峰那個……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以電價的調漲影響整條產業鏈的時候，影響了通膨真的只有0.18嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們的估計是說全年是0.24%，但是因為從4月1日開始調漲。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你就稍微往下修了一點？"],["朱主計長澤民：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：萬一實際上超過了怎麼辦？預測不準、不好意思，這樣？我主計長不能主計治國，這樣嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：事實上每一個機構的預測都很接近啦，我們跟央行的預測大概也只差0.09%。"],["牛委員煦庭：跟央行預測差0.09%，你們到底幾個人要立軍令狀？本席在這邊只是嚴肅提醒，漲電價是影響整條產業鏈，所以它帶動的通膨是現在人民面對的焦慮，你有一個預測，看起來也不太想為這個預測負起責任，好像0.18%沒什麼衝擊，經濟部做的圖卡又好像一副沒影響產業，不會帶動通膨。"],["朱主計長澤民：我沒有說沒有衝擊。"],["牛委員煦庭：本席絕對反對用避重就輕的方式做政策的溝通，我們寧願政府說實話、說真話，不要搞政治詐騙，好不好！謝謝啦！"],["主席：下一位質詢請王美惠、王美惠、王美惠委員不在。","請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-5","speakers":["羅明才","吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","李彥秀","郭國文","賴惠員","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇","李坤城","黃珊珊","王世堅","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:33,425\n這個剛剛羅委員應該講的很清楚了大概很難找到只有店面陳列然後麵包不用烤的這種烘焙坊對不對\n\n3\n00:00:34,485 --> 00:01:00,978\n那這件事情當然被網友酸爆因為大家都覺得說怎麼可能有這樣的事呢即便你只是陳烈因為前端也是要烘焙嘛對不對所以這個漲幅一定會有所轉嫁嘛所以你就當然被人家罵爆那我覺得經濟部處理也是很天才啦罵爆之後然後又變了一個版本啦說欸我可以改用喔這個離峰時段的用電啊我還可以幫你節省一萬七啊\n\n4\n00:01:02,011 --> 00:01:18,312\n那我就代表這個人民就提一下質詢啊大家都問說請問哪一家烘焙房可以半夜烤麵包啊市長你要不要回答一下哪一家烘焙房在半夜烤麵包為了省電費那個跟委員報告現在離峰的電價不只半夜白天也是他還有半離峰嘛裡面鬼扯了\n\n5\n00:01:19,315 --> 00:01:38,842\n這不是規則這是事實這是事實喔對啊就是有離風有各種不同的那個間離風電價時間電價可以選擇以你對這個烘焙產業的了解他們是可以配合你電價的調整然後去改變他的這個產品出貨的時間嗎跟委員報告辦離風的時候就是在賣的時候所有東西都要準備好了嘛對不對\n\n6\n00:01:40,739 --> 00:01:57,065\n我這樣講他們要迴避的最主要就是夜間封就是16點到22點這段時間那依照我們看到就是烘焙房它是真的有烘焙設備烤箱的事實上是真的可以做這個調節但是我還是要再說一次\n\n7\n00:01:57,705 --> 00:02:11,220\n前面這個我們舉的例子我們是要去找700度以下的例子我們找了一個這一個你就找了一個荒唐例子我告訴你你要叫他改時間你也是很奇怪啦除非你可以很清楚的講說哪些麵包店因為你這樣的政策然後我真的改變了時間有嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:12,682 --> 00:02:32,697\n我這樣說我們有具體的例子確實有他們開始調整為就是低壓的時間電價那個是對於他們的整個電費的調整是有幫助的我有具體的案例這個有但我還是要再說一次我們本來要找一個700度以下找了一個北部連鎖麵包房這個例子真的是\n\n9\n00:02:33,700 --> 00:02:36,345\n市長我直接問比較大的問題啦貴部的部長喔這個汪美花部長直接講說這個產業不要調漲物價就好啦請問這句話是做得到的嗎?\n\n10\n00:02:44,448 --> 00:03:09,485\n我想他好像不是這樣講啦他好像不是這樣講他沒有說產業不要調整物價就好了應該不是這個樣子那他是怎麼講的我覺得那個本意應該是這樣就是說我們的電價調整在每個不同的產業類別他對生產的成本的提升的反應會有不同啊那我們也是試算了就是如果這一個事情讓大家所有的東西都漲這也不見得完全合理\n\n11\n00:03:10,505 --> 00:03:25,655\n我們只是在講說描述我想說這一個部分因為部長表達也透過媒體報導那我知道的狀況是說我們這一個調整主要是我們針對我跟你講電價上漲影響電價上漲帶動通貨膨脹的理據是非常簡單的嘛因為大家生產都是產業鏈嘛你電價上漲幾乎整條產業鏈都會受到影響不是嗎從源頭一路到零售都會影響不是嗎\n\n12\n00:03:34,460 --> 00:03:54,258\n因為台灣的電力結構是這樣子我們的製造業大概佔了六成你貴部的部長講說這個業界不要漲物價就好這句話做不做得到如果沒有做到誰負責我想問的是誰負責我想部長應該不是直接講不要漲物價市長那這樣子我直接問你這一波電價的調漲會不會帶動通貨膨脹\n\n13\n00:03:56,977 --> 00:03:57,257\n福度是多少?\n\n14\n00:04:13,365 --> 00:04:38,156\n來主計長說明一下你報告有寫吧總部會打不出來來主計長我們主計總處的估計是大概是0.18%0.18%對你要不要逆均令狀實質上超過的時候誰負責預測沒有逆均令狀的啦因為是不同的情勢會有不同的不同的情勢又有不同的變化所以我們大概每大概3個月就會去\n\n15\n00:04:38,696 --> 00:05:01,916\n做一次那個預測的修正處長你認不認同經濟部用700度以下用烘焙坊當成案例啊詳細的情況我對烘焙坊也不了解烘焙業也不了解喔你不是很多了解小吃的價格嗎我價格我又不管它的製造過程我大家都以為你既管這個又管那個那就是人家說我主計治國了但是喔\n\n16\n00:05:02,857 --> 00:05:27,247\n主計長製造的過程應該有用電的問題吧這是常識你應該不會反對吧所以電價的調漲影響整條產業鏈的時候影響的通膨真的只有0.18嗎我們的估計是說因為他是4月1號開始全年是0.24但是4月1號開始所以你就稍微往下修了一點那萬一實際上超過的時候怎麼辦實際上超過的時候怎麼辦預測不準不好意思這樣\n\n17\n00:05:30,848 --> 00:05:49,414\n我主計長不能主計治國這樣嗎事實上每一個機構的預測都很接近了我們跟那個央行的預測也是只差大概是0.09個百分點跟央行預測也差0.09個百分點你們到底幾個人要立軍令狀好啦我本期在這邊只是嚴肅提醒\n\n18\n00:06:22,662 --> 00:06:23,967\n再質詢請王美惠\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n560\t20571\t朱主計長還有曾次長今天我們一樣要討好討論一下漲電價的問題尤其是要請主計長好好評價一下最近這個經濟部令人傻眼的政策溝通模式來\n25153\t33425\t這個剛剛羅委員應該講的很清楚了大概很難找到只有店面陳列然後麵包不用烤的這種烘焙坊對不對\n34485\t60978\t那這件事情當然被網友酸爆因為大家都覺得說怎麼可能有這樣的事呢即便你只是陳烈因為前端也是要烘焙嘛 對不對所以這個漲幅一定會有所轉嫁嘛所以你就當然被人家罵爆那我覺得經濟部處理也是很天才啦罵爆之後然後又變了一個版本啦說欸我可以改用喔這個離峰時段的用電啊我還可以幫你節省一萬七啊\n62011\t78312\t那我就代表這個人民就提一下質詢啊大家都問說請問哪一家烘焙房可以半夜烤麵包啊市長你要不要回答一下哪一家烘焙房在半夜烤麵包為了省電費那個跟委員報告現在離峰的電價不只半夜 白天也是他還有半離峰嘛 裡面鬼扯了\n79315\t98842\t這不是規則這是事實這是事實喔對啊就是有離風有各種不同的那個間離風電價時間電價可以選擇以你對這個烘焙產業的了解他們是可以配合你電價的調整然後去改變他的這個產品出貨的時間嗎跟委員報告辦離風的時候就是在賣的時候所有東西都要準備好了嘛對不對\n100739\t117065\t我這樣講他們要迴避的最主要就是夜間封就是16點到22點這段時間那依照我們看到就是烘焙房它是真的有烘焙設備烤箱的事實上是真的可以做這個調節但是我還是要再說一次\n117705\t131220\t前面這個我們舉的例子我們是要去找700度以下的例子我們找了一個這一個你就找了一個荒唐例子我告訴你你要叫他改時間你也是很奇怪啦除非你可以很清楚的講說哪些麵包店因為你這樣的政策然後我真的改變了時間有嗎?\n132682\t152697\t我這樣說我們有具體的例子確實有他們開始調整為就是低壓的時間電價那個是對於他們的整個電費的調整是有幫助的我有具體的案例這個有但我還是要再說一次我們本來要找一個700度以下找了一個北部連鎖麵包房這個例子真的是\n153700\t156345\t市長我直接問比較大的問題啦貴部的部長喔這個汪美花部長直接講說這個產業不要調漲物價就好啦請問這句話是做得到的嗎?\n164448\t189485\t我想他好像不是這樣講啦他好像不是這樣講他沒有說產業不要調整物價就好了應該不是這個樣子那他是怎麼講的我覺得那個本意應該是這樣就是說我們的電價調整在每個不同的產業類別他對生產的成本的提升的反應會有不同啊那我們也是試算了就是如果這一個事情讓大家所有的東西都漲這也不見得完全合理\n190505\t205655\t我們只是在講說描述我想說這一個部分因為部長表達也透過媒體報導那我知道的狀況是說我們這一個調整主要是我們針對我跟你講電價上漲影響電價上漲帶動通貨膨脹的理據是非常簡單的嘛因為大家生產都是產業鏈嘛你電價上漲幾乎整條產業鏈都會受到影響不是嗎從源頭一路到零售都會影響不是嗎\n214460\t234258\t因為台灣的電力結構是這樣子我們的製造業大概佔了六成你貴部的部長講說這個業界不要漲物價就好這句話做不做得到如果沒有做到誰負責我想問的是誰負責我想部長應該不是直接講不要漲物價市長那這樣子我直接問你這一波電價的調漲會不會帶動通貨膨脹\n236977\t237257\t福度是多少?\n253365\t278156\t來主計長說明一下你報告有寫吧總部會打不出來來主計長我們主計總處的估計是大概是0.18%0.18%對你要不要逆均令狀實質上超過的時候誰負責預測沒有逆均令狀的啦因為是不同的情勢會有不同的不同的情勢又有不同的變化所以我們大概每大概3個月就會去\n278696\t301916\t做一次那個預測的修正處長你認不認同經濟部用700度以下用烘焙坊當成案例啊詳細的情況我對烘焙坊也不了解烘焙業也不了解喔你不是很多了解小吃的價格嗎我價格我又不管它的製造過程我大家都以為你既管這個又管那個那就是人家說我主計治國了但是喔\n302857\t327247\t主計長製造的過程應該有用電的問題吧這是常識你應該不會反對吧所以電價的調漲影響整條產業鏈的時候影響的通膨真的只有0.18嗎我們的估計是說因為他是4月1號開始全年是0.24但是4月1號開始所以你就稍微往下修了一點那萬一實際上超過的時候怎麼辦實際上超過的時候怎麼辦預測不準不好意思這樣\n330848\t349414\t我主計長不能主計治國這樣嗎事實上每一個機構的預測都很接近了我們跟那個央行的預測也是只差大概是0.09個百分點跟央行預測也差0.09個百分點你們到底幾個人要立軍令狀好啦我本期在這邊只是嚴肅提醒\n349974\t379292\t謝謝\n382662\t383967\t再質詢請王美惠\n","txt":"朱主計長還有曾次長今天我們一樣要討好討論一下漲電價的問題尤其是要請主計長好好評價一下最近這個經濟部令人傻眼的政策溝通模式來\n這個剛剛羅委員應該講的很清楚了大概很難找到只有店面陳列然後麵包不用烤的這種烘焙坊對不對\n那這件事情當然被網友酸爆因為大家都覺得說怎麼可能有這樣的事呢即便你只是陳烈因為前端也是要烘焙嘛 對不對所以這個漲幅一定會有所轉嫁嘛所以你就當然被人家罵爆那我覺得經濟部處理也是很天才啦罵爆之後然後又變了一個版本啦說欸我可以改用喔這個離峰時段的用電啊我還可以幫你節省一萬七啊\n那我就代表這個人民就提一下質詢啊大家都問說請問哪一家烘焙房可以半夜烤麵包啊市長你要不要回答一下哪一家烘焙房在半夜烤麵包為了省電費那個跟委員報告現在離峰的電價不只半夜 白天也是他還有半離峰嘛 裡面鬼扯了\n這不是規則這是事實這是事實喔對啊就是有離風有各種不同的那個間離風電價時間電價可以選擇以你對這個烘焙產業的了解他們是可以配合你電價的調整然後去改變他的這個產品出貨的時間嗎跟委員報告辦離風的時候就是在賣的時候所有東西都要準備好了嘛對不對\n我這樣講他們要迴避的最主要就是夜間封就是16點到22點這段時間那依照我們看到就是烘焙房它是真的有烘焙設備烤箱的事實上是真的可以做這個調節但是我還是要再說一次\n前面這個我們舉的例子我們是要去找700度以下的例子我們找了一個這一個你就找了一個荒唐例子我告訴你你要叫他改時間你也是很奇怪啦除非你可以很清楚的講說哪些麵包店因為你這樣的政策然後我真的改變了時間有嗎?\n我這樣說我們有具體的例子確實有他們開始調整為就是低壓的時間電價那個是對於他們的整個電費的調整是有幫助的我有具體的案例這個有但我還是要再說一次我們本來要找一個700度以下找了一個北部連鎖麵包房這個例子真的是\n市長我直接問比較大的問題啦貴部的部長喔這個汪美花部長直接講說這個產業不要調漲物價就好啦請問這句話是做得到的嗎?\n我想他好像不是這樣講啦他好像不是這樣講他沒有說產業不要調整物價就好了應該不是這個樣子那他是怎麼講的我覺得那個本意應該是這樣就是說我們的電價調整在每個不同的產業類別他對生產的成本的提升的反應會有不同啊那我們也是試算了就是如果這一個事情讓大家所有的東西都漲這也不見得完全合理\n我們只是在講說描述我想說這一個部分因為部長表達也透過媒體報導那我知道的狀況是說我們這一個調整主要是我們針對我跟你講電價上漲影響電價上漲帶動通貨膨脹的理據是非常簡單的嘛因為大家生產都是產業鏈嘛你電價上漲幾乎整條產業鏈都會受到影響不是嗎從源頭一路到零售都會影響不是嗎\n因為台灣的電力結構是這樣子我們的製造業大概佔了六成你貴部的部長講說這個業界不要漲物價就好這句話做不做得到如果沒有做到誰負責我想問的是誰負責我想部長應該不是直接講不要漲物價市長那這樣子我直接問你這一波電價的調漲會不會帶動通貨膨脹\n福度是多少?\n來主計長說明一下你報告有寫吧總部會打不出來來主計長我們主計總處的估計是大概是0.18%0.18%對你要不要逆均令狀實質上超過的時候誰負責預測沒有逆均令狀的啦因為是不同的情勢會有不同的不同的情勢又有不同的變化所以我們大概每大概3個月就會去\n做一次那個預測的修正處長你認不認同經濟部用700度以下用烘焙坊當成案例啊詳細的情況我對烘焙坊也不了解烘焙業也不了解喔你不是很多了解小吃的價格嗎我價格我又不管它的製造過程我大家都以為你既管這個又管那個那就是人家說我主計治國了但是喔\n主計長製造的過程應該有用電的問題吧這是常識你應該不會反對吧所以電價的調漲影響整條產業鏈的時候影響的通膨真的只有0.18嗎我們的估計是說因為他是4月1號開始全年是0.24但是4月1號開始所以你就稍微往下修了一點那萬一實際上超過的時候怎麼辦實際上超過的時候怎麼辦預測不準不好意思這樣\n我主計長不能主計治國這樣嗎事實上每一個機構的預測都很接近了我們跟那個央行的預測也是只差大概是0.09個百分點跟央行預測也差0.09個百分點你們到底幾個人要立軍令狀好啦我本期在這邊只是嚴肅提醒\n謝謝\n再質詢請王美惠\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.560 --> 00:20.571\n朱主計長還有曾次長今天我們一樣要討好討論一下漲電價的問題尤其是要請主計長好好評價一下最近這個經濟部令人傻眼的政策溝通模式來\n\n00:25.153 --> 00:33.425\n這個剛剛羅委員應該講的很清楚了大概很難找到只有店面陳列然後麵包不用烤的這種烘焙坊對不對\n\n00:34.485 --> 01:00.978\n那這件事情當然被網友酸爆因為大家都覺得說怎麼可能有這樣的事呢即便你只是陳烈因為前端也是要烘焙嘛對不對所以這個漲幅一定會有所轉嫁嘛所以你就當然被人家罵爆那我覺得經濟部處理也是很天才啦罵爆之後然後又變了一個版本啦說欸我可以改用喔這個離峰時段的用電啊我還可以幫你節省一萬七啊\n\n01:02.011 --> 01:18.312\n那我就代表這個人民就提一下質詢啊大家都問說請問哪一家烘焙房可以半夜烤麵包啊市長你要不要回答一下哪一家烘焙房在半夜烤麵包為了省電費那個跟委員報告現在離峰的電價不只半夜白天也是他還有半離峰嘛裡面鬼扯了\n\n01:19.315 --> 01:38.842\n這不是規則這是事實這是事實喔對啊就是有離風有各種不同的那個間離風電價時間電價可以選擇以你對這個烘焙產業的了解他們是可以配合你電價的調整然後去改變他的這個產品出貨的時間嗎跟委員報告辦離風的時候就是在賣的時候所有東西都要準備好了嘛對不對\n\n01:40.739 --> 01:57.065\n我這樣講他們要迴避的最主要就是夜間封就是16點到22點這段時間那依照我們看到就是烘焙房它是真的有烘焙設備烤箱的事實上是真的可以做這個調節但是我還是要再說一次\n\n01:57.705 --> 02:11.220\n前面這個我們舉的例子我們是要去找700度以下的例子我們找了一個這一個你就找了一個荒唐例子我告訴你你要叫他改時間你也是很奇怪啦除非你可以很清楚的講說哪些麵包店因為你這樣的政策然後我真的改變了時間有嗎?\n\n02:12.682 --> 02:32.697\n我這樣說我們有具體的例子確實有他們開始調整為就是低壓的時間電價那個是對於他們的整個電費的調整是有幫助的我有具體的案例這個有但我還是要再說一次我們本來要找一個700度以下找了一個北部連鎖麵包房這個例子真的是\n\n02:33.700 --> 02:36.345\n市長我直接問比較大的問題啦貴部的部長喔這個汪美花部長直接講說這個產業不要調漲物價就好啦請問這句話是做得到的嗎?\n\n02:44.448 --> 03:09.485\n我想他好像不是這樣講啦他好像不是這樣講他沒有說產業不要調整物價就好了應該不是這個樣子那他是怎麼講的我覺得那個本意應該是這樣就是說我們的電價調整在每個不同的產業類別他對生產的成本的提升的反應會有不同啊那我們也是試算了就是如果這一個事情讓大家所有的東西都漲這也不見得完全合理\n\n03:10.505 --> 03:25.655\n我們只是在講說描述我想說這一個部分因為部長表達也透過媒體報導那我知道的狀況是說我們這一個調整主要是我們針對我跟你講電價上漲影響電價上漲帶動通貨膨脹的理據是非常簡單的嘛因為大家生產都是產業鏈嘛你電價上漲幾乎整條產業鏈都會受到影響不是嗎從源頭一路到零售都會影響不是嗎\n\n03:34.460 --> 03:54.258\n因為台灣的電力結構是這樣子我們的製造業大概佔了六成你貴部的部長講說這個業界不要漲物價就好這句話做不做得到如果沒有做到誰負責我想問的是誰負責我想部長應該不是直接講不要漲物價市長那這樣子我直接問你這一波電價的調漲會不會帶動通貨膨脹\n\n03:56.977 --> 03:57.257\n福度是多少?\n\n04:13.365 --> 04:38.156\n來主計長說明一下你報告有寫吧總部會打不出來來主計長我們主計總處的估計是大概是0.18%0.18%對你要不要逆均令狀實質上超過的時候誰負責預測沒有逆均令狀的啦因為是不同的情勢會有不同的不同的情勢又有不同的變化所以我們大概每大概3個月就會去\n\n04:38.696 --> 05:01.916\n做一次那個預測的修正處長你認不認同經濟部用700度以下用烘焙坊當成案例啊詳細的情況我對烘焙坊也不了解烘焙業也不了解喔你不是很多了解小吃的價格嗎我價格我又不管它的製造過程我大家都以為你既管這個又管那個那就是人家說我主計治國了但是喔\n\n05:02.857 --> 05:27.247\n主計長製造的過程應該有用電的問題吧這是常識你應該不會反對吧所以電價的調漲影響整條產業鏈的時候影響的通膨真的只有0.18嗎我們的估計是說因為他是4月1號開始全年是0.24但是4月1號開始所以你就稍微往下修了一點那萬一實際上超過的時候怎麼辦實際上超過的時候怎麼辦預測不準不好意思這樣\n\n05:30.848 --> 05:49.414\n我主計長不能主計治國這樣嗎事實上每一個機構的預測都很接近了我們跟那個央行的預測也是只差大概是0.09個百分點跟央行預測也差0.09個百分點你們到底幾個人要立軍令狀好啦我本期在這邊只是嚴肅提醒\n\n06:22.662 --> 06:23.967\n再質詢請王美惠\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.56,"end":20.571,"text":"朱主計長還有曾次長今天我們一樣要討好討論一下漲電價的問題尤其是要請主計長好好評價一下最近這個經濟部令人傻眼的政策溝通模式來"},{"start":25.153,"end":33.425,"text":"這個剛剛羅委員應該講的很清楚了大概很難找到只有店面陳列然後麵包不用烤的這種烘焙坊對不對"},{"start":34.485,"end":60.978,"text":"那這件事情當然被網友酸爆因為大家都覺得說怎麼可能有這樣的事呢即便你只是陳烈因為前端也是要烘焙嘛 對不對所以這個漲幅一定會有所轉嫁嘛所以你就當然被人家罵爆那我覺得經濟部處理也是很天才啦罵爆之後然後又變了一個版本啦說欸我可以改用喔這個離峰時段的用電啊我還可以幫你節省一萬七啊"},{"start":62.011,"end":78.312,"text":"那我就代表這個人民就提一下質詢啊大家都問說請問哪一家烘焙房可以半夜烤麵包啊市長你要不要回答一下哪一家烘焙房在半夜烤麵包為了省電費那個跟委員報告現在離峰的電價不只半夜 白天也是他還有半離峰嘛 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