{"id":150529,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150529","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d52fd770ed37d87c776e9ac27f41e17f3cf8ba9b0039caa7a6a269d86429812c965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"09:38:31 - 09:50:39","影片長度":"00:12:08","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長及行政院相關機關（含事業單位）列席就「政府機關推動人事服務數位轉型」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。\n【其中7案如經院會復議，則不予審查、處理】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":728,"end_time":"2024-03-27T09:50:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T09:38:31+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":434,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（9時38分）謝謝主席。請人事長。"],["主席：有請蘇人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早安。"],["陳委員俊宇：人事長還有所有今天列席的各位首長、今天與會的所有委員大家早。首先我想請教人事長最近我們公務人員出走潮的問題，因為過去民眾普遍認為公務人員是鐵飯碗，工作非常的穩定，而且考試能夠考得上，成本也花費非常多，非常的不容易，所以會非常珍惜這個工作機會，但最近有許多公務人員離開的新聞，我們從數據上看到辭職的人數從109年到111年，每年都成長10%以上，其中辭職的原因有高達88%都寫著因為個人因素，但是我們知道個人因素就像生涯規劃一樣，是沒有辦法掌握到辭職的真正原因，然而我們面對不斷辭職的這些同仁，人事機關是不是有需要確實去掌握主要的原因，才能夠對症下藥？所以我請教人事長，有沒有辦法掌握到這些公務人員真正辭職的原因是什麼？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝委員。我想辭職的原因，會有所謂的辭職跟離職兩個定義，現在委員指教的是辭職，事實上，平均的辭職率大概是公務人力0.75%，在0.75%裡面大概有接近45%本來是屬於普考的，他考上高考，所以他會辭職，他會去高考單位，因為整個待遇、各方面的條件會不一樣，第一個區塊主要是在這裡。第二個，也有些公務同仁會特別去考公營事業，因為公營事業相關的保障措施也不錯，所以這裡面大概有接近45%是轉換跑道，一個是職等比較高，一個是到公營事業，這個大概接近45%。另外，誠如委員螢幕上面寫的訓練發展、管理因素、待遇福利等各方面，我想這些條件大概呈現的百分比，事實上都不大，主要會是在個人因素部分，即剛才委員就教的部分，個人因素大概接近45%是因為他轉換到職等比較高或公務機關。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，謝謝人事長。如果誠如剛剛人事長講的，這些同仁可能是因為有比較好的工作，或是一樣在公務體系裡面，他想要去轉換另外一個職場，當然那個都無所謂，可是看起來有一些並非像剛剛人事長講的這麼樂觀，那個數據可能是後面講的這些同仁，他可能因為在工作上是不是有什麼原因，導致他願意放棄這麼好的工作，都甘願要離開，所以我希望人事總處應該要對這部分去加強瞭解。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這個部分，我也坦白承認，在某些機關因為管理風格不一樣，所以同仁在那裡工作覺得壓力會特別大。"],["陳委員俊宇：對。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：過去這兩年來，我們花很多時間去宣導，嚴禁職場霸凌，因為有些同仁事實上是默默在做，可是每一個機關首長的管理風格也不大一樣，所以我們也特別透過人事體系去宣導職場霸凌，這個情況必須要禁止，因為我自己也聽過幾個case是屬於職場霸凌，員工承受不了，所以就選辭職，這就是委員提到的管理因素部分；當然待遇福利的部分也是會有，因為每一個人到公務機關本來是希望尋求比較安定的狀態，可是當他家裡的財務需求改變的時候，有時候他會選擇到民間，或許他的報酬會比較高一點。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，我還是想請人事總處，因為我們要把好的人才留住，一定要對症下藥，你要找到問題所在，才有辦法去解決，不然更好的人才留不住，你說政府有多厲害，我看都是有限的，所以我請人事總處對於這個問題要持續去關心。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["陳委員俊宇：有一些同仁可能是因為所謂的不適任、或是因為考績被打丁等、或是被記兩支大過之後，有這種被動離開的情況，我還是請人事總處對於這部分也要深入去瞭解，避免這種好像也是另外一種職場霸凌的現象。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這一種因為考績丁等或者兩大過離開的，每一年最多大概5位左右，事實上經過每一個機關內部的考績委員會，他們很嚴格的去review，因為這牽涉到當事人的權益太大，所以機關在執行這件事情的時候也非常慎重，同時我們也在保訓會有提供他可以救濟的途徑，所以在這一方面我會答應委員，我們特別去瞭解兩大過的或者丁等的這些事由，我們會做進一步的分析，我覺得這些資訊也是非常有意義的，我們也會在人事的宣導裡面，去加強個人權益保障的宣導。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，這部分請人事總處持續關心。","接下來我想請教，針對彈性工作的部分，目前我們機關對於辦理彈性工作的時間方面，是否符合公務人員的需求、需不需要再擴大？如果要再擴大，我們機關辦理的配套措施是否完善？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：因為我們為了要照顧家裡有養育未足三足歲幼兒的同仁，這個都可以請育嬰假，留職停薪去照顧，這是屬於長期間的，他可以請一天，一直到小孩子三歲以前，他可以分次請，對當事人來講按照他的需求，可以很彈性；而常態型的，我們所瞭解各個機關的彈性上班，每一天上班的時間，有些是彈性半個小時以下，有些半小時到一小時，有些一小時到一小時半，還有一小時半到兩小時，有少數機關是彈性可以超過兩個小時，每一個機關因地制宜，讓他們自己去調整彈性上班的需求。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，因為看起來我們目前好像有九成以上的公務機關都有在實施，我還是希望對於彈性上班的部分，我們能夠確切地給予公務人員比較好的方式，讓他們可以符合不管是家庭或是個人在時間上的需求。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝。這個坦白講，我會非常重視，所以有時候我到一些地方機關或其他機關，我都會特別去問，在離島某些地區就是在半個小時以內，所以我會提出來詢問：你們沒辦法彈性一小時、兩小時嗎？他們都有特殊的考慮啦！因為那是內部管理事項，基本上我們還是會尊重每一個機關的考量。"],["陳委員俊宇：另外我想請教人事長，針對居家辦公的部分，我們因應之前COVID-19的那一段期間，因為疫情非常嚴峻，不管是機關或是私人公司都一樣，有啟動居家辦公，目前我們對於居家辦公的部分，有沒有進一步安排的方式？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們現在有提出一個試辦計畫一直到明年年底，就是base on之前COVID-19的狀況，我們持續到明年年底這段期間，可以允許居家上班，符合居家上班要件的准駁權還是在各個機關首長，基本上我們有做一件事情，就是鼓勵你家庭有人需要照顧，可能是年長的父母親，或者家裡有一些身體情況有需要的，whatever，就是他可以提出來，經過機關首長同意，他可以居家上班；至於居家上班一次是以一個月或兩個月，或者兩個禮拜再加兩個禮拜的方式，這個尊重每一個機關的規劃。我們很care這件事情，因為我覺得做好一件事情不見得一定要到辦公室，可是有幾個情況例外，如果他擔任的是第一線服務的，就比較沒有辦法，如果他擔任的工作是比較機敏性的，當然也比較沒有辦法把一些工作帶回家，當然由於一些工作場域的問題會有一些差異性。"],["陳委員俊宇：再請教人事長一個問題，居家辦公的部分會不會影響到他的年終考績？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：完全都不會。"],["陳委員俊宇：都不會？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：都不會、都不會。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，我希望對於居家辦公的部分，我們也可以有一套比較完整的規劃，讓有需要的，在我們相關部會他可能在他的工作性質上不影響的情況之下，可以讓他來申請居家辦公的方式。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：其實我要跟委員再補充一下，因為其實過去這幾年裡面，我們有些公務同仁可能會有一些cancer的部分有做化療，比較不方便來上班，像這一些我瞭解的幾個部會都有允許他們在家裡上班，尤其他們又剛好去擔任一些研究型的工作，這個部分我想很多機關首長都有做這樣的同意，讓他們在居家上班的情況。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，以上，謝謝人事長。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員、謝謝蘇人事長。","接下來有請林委員思銘質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-9","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","陳俊宇","林思銘","羅智強","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","謝龍介","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","鄭天財Sra 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0.891}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 644.348, \"end\": 644.648, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 644.648, \"end\": 645.369, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 645.369, \"end\": 645.589, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 645.589, \"end\": 646.49, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 646.49, \"end\": 646.73, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 646.73, \"end\": 646.93, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 646.93, \"end\": 647.03, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 647.03, \"end\": 647.23, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 647.23, \"end\": 647.39, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 647.39, \"end\": 647.57, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 647.57, \"end\": 647.871, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 647.871, \"end\": 648.011, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 648.011, \"end\": 648.111, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 648.111, \"end\": 648.231, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 648.231, \"end\": 648.411, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 648.411, \"end\": 648.751, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 648.751, \"end\": 648.912, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"室\", \"start\": 648.912, \"end\": 649.032, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 649.032, \"end\": 649.192, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 649.192, \"end\": 649.352, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 649.352, \"end\": 649.912, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 649.912, \"end\": 650.333, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 650.333, \"end\": 650.533, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 650.533, \"end\": 651.133, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 651.133, \"end\": 651.273, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 657.498, \"end\": 658.099, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"敏\", \"start\": 658.099, \"end\": 658.299, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 658.299, \"end\": 658.539, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 658.539, \"end\": 658.799, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 658.799, \"end\": 659.22, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 659.22, \"end\": 659.4, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 659.4, \"end\": 659.62, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 659.62, \"end\": 659.9, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 659.9, \"end\": 660.02, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 660.02, \"end\": 660.281, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 660.281, \"end\": 660.601, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 660.601, \"end\": 660.781, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 660.781, \"end\": 660.861, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 660.861, \"end\": 661.021, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 661.021, \"end\": 661.201, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 661.201, \"end\": 661.522, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"帶\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 661.522, \"end\": 661.702, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 661.702, \"end\": 661.722, \"score\": 0.968}]}, {\"start\": 662.242, \"end\": 673.258, \"text\": \"當然會有一些他的工作的場域的問題會有一些差異性再請教一個那個人事長一個問題就是居家辦公的部分會不會影響到他的年終考期\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 662.242, \"end\": 662.543, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 662.543, \"end\": 662.723, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 662.723, \"end\": 662.823, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 662.823, \"end\": 663.043, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 663.043, \"end\": 663.244, \"score\": 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\"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 668.09, \"end\": 668.251, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 668.251, \"end\": 668.611, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 668.611, \"end\": 668.972, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 668.972, \"end\": 669.112, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 669.112, \"end\": 669.392, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 669.392, \"end\": 669.793, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 669.793, \"end\": 669.933, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 669.933, \"end\": 670.113, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 670.113, \"end\": 670.313, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 670.313, \"end\": 670.674, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 670.674, \"end\": 670.834, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 670.834, \"end\": 670.974, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 670.974, \"end\": 671.075, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 671.075, \"end\": 671.375, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 671.375, \"end\": 671.675, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 671.675, \"end\": 672.036, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 672.036, \"end\": 672.176, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 672.176, \"end\": 672.356, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 672.356, \"end\": 672.657, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 672.657, \"end\": 672.997, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"終\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 672.997, \"end\": 673.238, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 673.238, \"end\": 673.258, \"score\": 0.012}]}, {\"start\": 674.912, \"end\": 695.708, \"text\": \"我希望說對於居家辦公的部分我們也可以有一套比較完整的一個規劃讓有需要的在我們相關部會他可能在他的工作性質上不影響的情況之下可以讓他來申請這種居家辦公的方式\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 674.912, \"end\": 675.192, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 675.192, \"end\": 675.412, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 675.412, \"end\": 676.813, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 676.813, \"end\": 681.177, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 681.177, \"end\": 681.337, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 681.337, \"end\": 681.997, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 681.997, \"end\": 682.258, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 682.258, \"end\": 682.478, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 682.478, \"end\": 682.678, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 682.678, \"end\": 682.958, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 682.958, \"end\": 683.218, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 683.218, \"end\": 683.399, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 683.399, \"end\": 683.539, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 683.539, \"end\": 683.639, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 683.639, \"end\": 683.799, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 683.799, \"end\": 683.959, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"套\", \"start\": 683.959, \"end\": 684.159, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 684.159, \"end\": 684.459, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 684.459, \"end\": 684.72, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 684.72, \"end\": 684.96, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 684.96, \"end\": 685.14, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 685.14, \"end\": 686.601, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 686.601, \"end\": 686.801, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 686.801, \"end\": 687.041, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 687.041, \"end\": 687.262, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 687.262, \"end\": 687.702, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 687.702, \"end\": 688.002, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 688.002, \"end\": 688.683, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 688.683, \"end\": 689.083, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 689.083, \"end\": 689.463, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 689.463, \"end\": 689.643, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 689.643, \"end\": 689.743, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 689.743, \"end\": 689.924, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 689.924, \"end\": 690.304, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 690.304, \"end\": 690.424, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 690.424, \"end\": 690.584, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 690.584, \"end\": 690.764, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 690.764, \"end\": 690.924, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 690.924, \"end\": 691.265, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 691.265, \"end\": 691.545, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 691.545, \"end\": 691.725, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 691.725, \"end\": 692.245, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 692.245, \"end\": 692.385, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 692.385, \"end\": 692.726, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 692.726, \"end\": 692.906, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 692.906, \"end\": 693.426, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 693.426, \"end\": 693.526, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 693.526, \"end\": 693.807, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 693.807, \"end\": 694.127, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 694.127, \"end\": 694.807, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 694.807, \"end\": 694.967, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 694.967, \"end\": 695.348, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 695.348, \"end\": 695.508, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 695.508, \"end\": 695.628, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 695.628, \"end\": 695.688, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 695.688, \"end\": 695.708, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 696.028, \"end\": 724.787, \"text\": \"其實我要再補充一下因為其實過去這幾年來我們有些公務同仁他可能會有一些Cancer的部分有做化療他比較不方便來上班像這一些我了解的幾個部位都有允許他們在家裡上班尤其他們又剛好去擔任一些研究型的工作這個部分我想很多機關首長都有做這樣的一個統一讓他們在機甲上班的情況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 696.028, \"end\": 696.168, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 719.984, \"end\": 720.885, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 720.885, \"end\": 721.905, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 721.905, \"end\": 722.326, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 722.326, \"end\": 722.446, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 722.446, \"end\": 722.966, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 722.966, \"end\": 723.226, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 723.226, \"end\": 723.547, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 723.547, \"end\": 724.127, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"甲\", \"start\": 724.127, \"end\": 724.287, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 724.287, \"end\": 724.507, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 724.507, \"end\": 724.647, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 724.647, \"end\": 724.767, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 724.767, \"end\": 724.787, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 725.789, \"end\": 726.455, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 726.455, \"end\": 726.556, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 726.556, \"end\": 726.98, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 726.98, \"end\": 727.141, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 727.141, \"end\": 727.161, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:19,721 --> 00:00:24,826\n好,謝謝主席。那主席可以請我們人事長。有請所有人事長。\n\n2\n00:00:28,352 --> 00:00:52,262\n委員早安人事長還有我們所有今天列席的各位首長我們今天與會的所有委員大家早首先我想請教我們人事長就最近我們公務人員這個出走潮的問題啦出走潮問題因為過去的民眾一般普遍都認為說這個公務人員是一個鐵飯碗那工作非常的穩定\n\n3\n00:00:53,422 --> 00:01:07,532\n而且考試能夠考得上這個成本也花費非常的多非常的不容易那所以會非常珍惜這個工作的機會所以在最近有許多公務人員離開的這個新聞我們從這個數據上可以去看到\n\n4\n00:01:12,115 --> 00:01:33,188\n此指的人數從109年到111年每年都有成長10%以上其中此指的原因有高達88%都寫著說是因為個人因素但是我們知道個人因素就像這個生涯規劃一樣是沒有辦法掌握到此指的真正原因\n\n5\n00:01:34,366 --> 00:01:55,615\n然而我們面對不斷辭職的這些同仁我想請教就是說人事機關是不是有需要確實去掌握這個主要的原因才能夠對症下藥所以我請教我們人事長有沒有辦法掌握到我們這些公務人員他們真正辭職的原因是什麼\n\n6\n00:01:57,629 --> 00:02:16,773\n謝謝委員我想辭職的原因主要因為會有所謂的辭職跟離職兩個定義那現在委員指教的就是辭職事實上平均的辭職率大概0.75%大概我們公共人力的0.75%這0.75%裡面大概接近45%是因為有\n\n7\n00:02:23,254 --> 00:02:46,358\n百分之45是屬於他本來是屬於普考的他考上高考所以他會辭職他會去就那個高考因為整個大一個畫面的條件會不一樣這個主要是第一個區塊在這裡第二個也有也有些公務通人他會去特別去考那個公營事業因為公營事業相關的業保障措施也不錯\n\n8\n00:02:46,938 --> 00:03:06,515\n所以這裏面大概有接近45%是轉換跑道到一個值等比較高一個到走公營事業部分這個大概接近45%另外就陳儒委員這個螢幕上面寫的就是訓練發展、管理因素、待遇福利各方面我想\n\n9\n00:03:07,176 --> 00:03:07,476\n好,謝謝人事長\n\n10\n00:03:26,383 --> 00:03:49,522\n如果說像陳儒剛剛人事長講的我們這些同仁他可能是因為有比較好的工作或是因為在一樣是公務體系裡面他想要去轉換另外一個職場那當然那個都無所謂可是看起來有一些並非是這個像剛剛人事長講的這麼樂觀可能那個數據就是可能是後面講的這些數據的這些同仁\n\n11\n00:03:51,724 --> 00:04:05,445\n他可能是因為在工作上是不是有什麼原因導致他願意放棄這麼好的工作都甘願要離開所以我希望說我們應該是要對人事總處應該是要對這個部分要去加強了解\n\n12\n00:04:06,670 --> 00:04:21,321\n好,這個部分我也坦白承認在某些機關他因為那個管理的風格會不一樣所以同仁在那裡工作接著他壓力會特別大所以\n\n13\n00:04:22,001 --> 00:04:37,611\n過去這兩年來我們花很多時間去宣導嚴禁職場霸凌因為有些同仁他事實上是默默在做可是每一個機關所長的管理風格也不大一樣所以我們也特別透過我們人事體系去宣導\n\n14\n00:04:38,791 --> 00:05:07,823\n職場霸凌就是這個情況必須要去禁止因為我自己也聽過幾個case是屬於職場霸凌所以員工他承受不了所以他就選擇辭職啊這個就是在委員裡面的就管理因素的部分那當然待遇福利的部分也是會有因為他每一個人的本來到公務機關是希望尋求一個比較安定的吧可是當他家裡的財務需求改變的時候有時候他會\n\n15\n00:05:09,264 --> 00:05:13,588\n選擇到民間或許他的報酬會比較高一點我還是\n\n16\n00:05:19,235 --> 00:05:47,146\n就是請我們人事總署這邊吼因為我們要把好的人才留住一定要對症下藥你要去找到問題所在才有辦法去解決阿不然你更好的人才撈不住你說政府有多好我看都悠閒啦所以我請我們人事總署這邊對這個問題要持續去關心吼那對於在這個有一些是不是可能這些我們這些同仁是因為\n\n17\n00:05:48,550 --> 00:06:08,000\n所謂的不適任或是因為這個烤雞被打丁等或是被記兩隻大過之後有這種被動離開的情況這個部分我還是請人事總處對於這個部分也要去深入去了解避免這種好像也是職場的另外一種霸凌的現象\n\n18\n00:06:10,605 --> 00:06:36,452\n我這裡跟委員報告一下啦這一種因為烤雞丁等或者兩大過離開的每一年大概就是大概最多大概5位左右那這一些事實上經過每一個機關的內部的烤雞委員會他們很嚴格的去review因為這牽涉到當事人的潛意太大所以他們機關在執行這件事情的時候也非常慎重\n\n19\n00:06:37,432 --> 00:06:55,328\n同時我們也在保訊會有提供了一個他可以救濟的一個途徑所以這一方面我我想一方面我會答應委員我們特別去了解這一些兩大過的或者丁等的這一些事由我們會去做一些進一步的一個分析我覺得\n\n20\n00:06:56,228 --> 00:07:18,964\n這些資訊也是非常有意義的然後我們也去在人事的先導裡面去加強個人權益保障的先導好這部分請我們人事總處持續關心那接下來我想請教就是我們針對這個彈性工作的部分在我們目前我們\n\n21\n00:07:21,957 --> 00:07:36,075\n我想請教就是說目前我們機關對於辦理這個彈性工作的這個時間方面是否符合我們公務人員的需求需不需要再擴大那如果要再擴大我們機關辦理的配套措施是否完善\n\n22\n00:07:37,441 --> 00:07:54,830\n我這裡跟委員報告一下因為我們為了要照顧這個養育家裡有未足三足歲的這個都可以請義嬰假留子停薪去照顧那這個是屬於一個長期間的他可以請一天一直到\n\n23\n00:07:55,310 --> 00:08:22,286\n那小孩子3歲以前他可以分次可以請這個對當事人來講他的一個按照他的需求他可以很彈性那常態型的常態型的我們所了解的各個機關他的彈性上班每一天上班的時間他有些是彈性半個小時以下有些半小時到一小時也有一些一小時到兩小時到一小時到一小時半還有一小時半到兩小時那有少數機關\n\n24\n00:08:23,066 --> 00:08:24,868\n公務機關都有在實施啦那我還是希望說對於彈性放假的部分我們能夠確確的給予我們公務人員比較\n\n25\n00:09:02,341 --> 00:09:22,356\n特別去問在離島某些地區他們就是在半個小時以內所以我我一直我就是我會提出來阿你摸到彈性1點鐘阿2點鐘阿他們都有特殊的考慮阿因為那是內部管理事項所以基本上我們還是會尊重這些每一個機關他的一些考量\n\n26\n00:09:23,877 --> 00:09:50,348\n那另外我想請教我們人事長就是針對我們這個居家辦公的部分居家辦公因為我們因應之前COVID-19的那一段期間那因為這個疫情非常嚴峻那導致我們許多不管是機關或是這個私人的公司都一樣有啟動這個居家辦公那目前我們對於居家辦公的部分我們有沒有進一步的這個安排的方式\n\n27\n00:09:51,089 --> 00:10:08,134\n我這裡跟委員報告一下我們現在有提出一個示範計畫一直到明年年底就是basedon之前COVID-19的這個我們在持續在明年年底這段期間可以允許居家上班\n\n28\n00:10:09,594 --> 00:10:36,142\n服務和居家上班的這個要件的準和錢還是在各個機關所長那基本上我們有做一件事情就是鼓勵家庭就是你家庭有人需要照顧可能連長的父母親或者家裡有一些需要就身體情況的反而就是他可以提出來經過機關所長同意的話他可以居家上班那至於居家上班一次是以一個月或兩個月或者\n\n29\n00:10:38,383 --> 00:11:01,722\n兩個禮拜再加兩個禮拜再這個是尊重每一個機關的規劃我們很care這件事情因為我覺得完成做好一件事情不見得一定要到辦公室可是有幾個情況例外就是說他如果他擔任的是第一線服務的就比較沒有辦法如果他擔任的工作是比較機敏性的他當然也比較沒有辦法把一些工作帶回家\n\n30\n00:11:02,242 --> 00:11:13,258\n當然會有一些他的工作的場域的問題會有一些差異性再請教一個那個人事長一個問題就是居家辦公的部分會不會影響到他的年終考期\n\n31\n00:11:14,912 --> 00:11:35,708\n我希望說對於居家辦公的部分我們也可以有一套比較完整的一個規劃讓有需要的在我們相關部會他可能在他的工作性質上不影響的情況之下可以讓他來申請這種居家辦公的方式\n\n32\n00:11:36,028 --> 00:12:04,787\n其實我要再補充一下因為其實過去這幾年來我們有些公務同仁他可能會有一些Cancer的部分有做化療他比較不方便來上班像這一些我了解的幾個部位都有允許他們在家裡上班尤其他們又剛好去擔任一些研究型的工作這個部分我想很多機關首長都有做這樣的一個統一讓他們在機甲上班的情況\n\n33\n00:12:05,789 --> 00:12:07,161\n好以上謝謝人事長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n19721\t24826\t好,謝謝主席。那主席可以請我們人事長。有請所有人事長。\n28352\t52262\t委員早安人事長還有我們所有今天列席的各位首長我們今天與會的所有委員大家早首先我想請教我們人事長就最近我們公務人員這個出走潮的問題啦出走潮問題因為過去的民眾一般普遍都認為說這個公務人員是一個鐵飯碗那工作非常的穩定\n53422\t67532\t而且考試能夠考得上這個成本也花費非常的多非常的不容易那所以會非常珍惜這個工作的機會所以在最近有許多公務人員離開的這個新聞我們從這個數據上可以去看到\n72115\t93188\t此指的人數從109年到111年每年都有成長10%以上其中此指的原因有高達88%都寫著說是因為個人因素但是我們知道個人因素就像這個生涯規劃一樣是沒有辦法掌握到此指的真正原因\n94366\t115615\t然而我們面對不斷辭職的這些同仁我想請教就是說人事機關是不是有需要確實去掌握這個主要的原因才能夠對症下藥所以我請教我們人事長有沒有辦法掌握到我們這些公務人員他們真正辭職的原因是什麼\n117629\t136773\t謝謝委員我想辭職的原因主要因為會有所謂的辭職跟離職兩個定義那現在委員指教的就是辭職事實上平均的辭職率大概0.75%大概我們公共人力的0.75%這0.75%裡面大概接近45%是因為有\n143254\t166358\t百分之45是屬於他本來是屬於普考的他考上高考所以他會辭職他會去就那個高考因為整個大一個畫面的條件會不一樣這個主要是第一個區塊在這裡第二個也有也有些公務通人他會去特別去考那個公營事業因為公營事業相關的業保障措施也不錯\n166938\t186515\t所以這裏面大概有接近45%是轉換跑道到一個值等比較高一個到走公營事業部分這個大概接近45%另外就陳儒委員這個螢幕上面寫的就是訓練發展、管理因素、待遇福利各方面我想\n187176\t187476\t好,謝謝人事長\n206383\t229522\t如果說像陳儒剛剛人事長講的我們這些同仁他可能是因為有比較好的工作或是因為在一樣是公務體系裡面他想要去轉換另外一個職場那當然那個都無所謂可是看起來有一些並非是這個像剛剛人事長講的這麼樂觀可能那個數據就是可能是後面講的這些數據的這些同仁\n231724\t245445\t他可能是因為在工作上是不是有什麼原因導致他願意放棄這麼好的工作都甘願要離開所以我希望說我們應該是要對人事總處應該是要對這個部分要去加強了解\n246670\t261321\t好,這個部分我也坦白承認在某些機關他因為那個管理的風格會不一樣所以同仁在那裡工作接著他壓力會特別大所以\n262001\t277611\t過去這兩年來我們花很多時間去宣導嚴禁職場霸凌因為有些同仁他事實上是默默在做可是每一個機關所長的管理風格也不大一樣所以我們也特別透過我們人事體系去宣導\n278791\t307823\t職場霸凌就是這個情況必須要去禁止因為我自己也聽過幾個case是屬於職場霸凌所以員工他承受不了所以他就選擇辭職啊這個就是在委員裡面的就管理因素的部分那當然待遇福利的部分也是會有因為他每一個人的本來到公務機關是希望尋求一個比較安定的吧可是當他家裡的財務需求改變的時候有時候他會\n309264\t313588\t選擇到民間或許他的報酬會比較高一點我還是\n319235\t347146\t就是請我們人事總署這邊吼因為我們要把好的人才留住一定要對症下藥你要去找到問題所在才有辦法去解決阿不然你更好的人才撈不住你說政府有多好我看都悠閒啦所以我請我們人事總署這邊對這個問題要持續去關心吼那對於在這個有一些是不是可能這些我們這些同仁是因為\n348550\t368000\t所謂的不適任或是因為這個烤雞被打丁等或是被記兩隻大過之後有這種被動離開的情況這個部分我還是請人事總處對於這個部分也要去深入去了解避免這種好像也是職場的另外一種霸凌的現象\n370605\t396452\t我這裡跟委員報告一下啦這一種因為烤雞丁等或者兩大過離開的每一年大概就是大概最多大概5位左右那這一些事實上經過每一個機關的內部的烤雞委員會他們很嚴格的去review因為這牽涉到當事人的潛意太大所以他們機關在執行這件事情的時候也非常慎重\n397432\t415328\t同時我們也在保訊會有提供了一個他可以救濟的一個途徑所以這一方面我我想一方面我會答應委員我們特別去了解這一些兩大過的或者丁等的這一些事由我們會去做一些進一步的一個分析我覺得\n416228\t438964\t這些資訊也是非常有意義的然後我們也去在人事的先導裡面去加強個人權益保障的先導好 這部分請我們人事總處持續關心那接下來我想請教就是我們針對這個彈性工作的部分在我們目前我們\n441957\t456075\t我想請教就是說目前我們機關對於辦理這個彈性工作的這個時間方面是否符合我們公務人員的需求需不需要再擴大那如果要再擴大我們機關辦理的配套措施是否完善\n457441\t474830\t我這裡跟委員報告一下因為我們為了要照顧這個養育家裡有未足三足歲的這個都可以請義嬰假留子停薪去照顧那這個是屬於一個長期間的他可以請一天一直到\n475310\t502286\t那小孩子3歲以前他可以分次可以請這個對當事人來講他的一個按照他的需求他可以很彈性那常態型的常態型的我們所了解的各個機關他的彈性上班每一天上班的時間他有些是彈性半個小時以下有些半小時到一小時也有一些一小時到兩小時到一小時到一小時半還有一小時半到兩小時那有少數機關\n503066\t504868\t公務機關都有在實施啦那我還是希望說對於彈性放假的部分我們能夠確確的給予我們公務人員比較\n526049\t542261\t議員議員議員議員\n542341\t562356\t特別去問在離島某些地區他們就是在半個小時以內所以我我一直我就是我會提出來阿你摸到彈性1點鐘阿2點鐘阿他們都有特殊的考慮阿因為那是內部管理事項所以基本上我們還是會尊重這些每一個機關他的一些考量\n563877\t590348\t那另外我想請教我們人事長就是針對我們這個居家辦公的部分居家辦公因為我們因應之前COVID-19的那一段期間那因為這個疫情非常嚴峻那導致我們許多不管是機關或是這個私人的公司都一樣有啟動這個居家辦公那目前我們對於居家辦公的部分我們有沒有進一步的這個安排的方式\n591089\t608134\t我這裡跟委員報告一下我們現在有提出一個示範計畫一直到明年年底就是based on之前COVID-19的這個我們在持續在明年年底這段期間可以允許居家上班\n609594\t636142\t服務和居家上班的這個要件的準和錢還是在各個機關所長那基本上我們有做一件事情就是鼓勵家庭就是你家庭有人需要照顧可能連長的父母親或者家裡有一些需要就身體情況的反而就是他可以提出來經過機關所長同意的話他可以居家上班那至於居家上班一次是以一個月或兩個月或者\n638383\t661722\t兩個禮拜再加兩個禮拜再這個是尊重每一個機關的規劃我們很care這件事情因為我覺得完成做好一件事情不見得一定要到辦公室可是有幾個情況例外就是說他如果他擔任的是第一線服務的就比較沒有辦法如果他擔任的工作是比較機敏性的他當然也比較沒有辦法把一些工作帶回家\n662242\t673258\t當然會有一些他的工作的場域的問題會有一些差異性再請教一個那個人事長一個問題就是居家辦公的部分會不會影響到他的年終考期\n674912\t695708\t我希望說對於居家辦公的部分我們也可以有一套比較完整的一個規劃讓有需要的在我們相關部會他可能在他的工作性質上不影響的情況之下可以讓他來申請這種居家辦公的方式\n696028\t724787\t其實我要再補充一下因為其實過去這幾年來我們有些公務同仁他可能會有一些Cancer的部分有做化療他比較不方便來上班像這一些我了解的幾個部位都有允許他們在家裡上班尤其他們又剛好去擔任一些研究型的工作這個部分我想很多機關首長都有做這樣的一個統一讓他們在機甲上班的情況\n725789\t727161\t好以上謝謝人事長\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。那主席可以請我們人事長。有請所有人事長。\n委員早安人事長還有我們所有今天列席的各位首長我們今天與會的所有委員大家早首先我想請教我們人事長就最近我們公務人員這個出走潮的問題啦出走潮問題因為過去的民眾一般普遍都認為說這個公務人員是一個鐵飯碗那工作非常的穩定\n而且考試能夠考得上這個成本也花費非常的多非常的不容易那所以會非常珍惜這個工作的機會所以在最近有許多公務人員離開的這個新聞我們從這個數據上可以去看到\n此指的人數從109年到111年每年都有成長10%以上其中此指的原因有高達88%都寫著說是因為個人因素但是我們知道個人因素就像這個生涯規劃一樣是沒有辦法掌握到此指的真正原因\n然而我們面對不斷辭職的這些同仁我想請教就是說人事機關是不是有需要確實去掌握這個主要的原因才能夠對症下藥所以我請教我們人事長有沒有辦法掌握到我們這些公務人員他們真正辭職的原因是什麼\n謝謝委員我想辭職的原因主要因為會有所謂的辭職跟離職兩個定義那現在委員指教的就是辭職事實上平均的辭職率大概0.75%大概我們公共人力的0.75%這0.75%裡面大概接近45%是因為有\n百分之45是屬於他本來是屬於普考的他考上高考所以他會辭職他會去就那個高考因為整個大一個畫面的條件會不一樣這個主要是第一個區塊在這裡第二個也有也有些公務通人他會去特別去考那個公營事業因為公營事業相關的業保障措施也不錯\n所以這裏面大概有接近45%是轉換跑道到一個值等比較高一個到走公營事業部分這個大概接近45%另外就陳儒委員這個螢幕上面寫的就是訓練發展、管理因素、待遇福利各方面我想\n好,謝謝人事長\n如果說像陳儒剛剛人事長講的我們這些同仁他可能是因為有比較好的工作或是因為在一樣是公務體系裡面他想要去轉換另外一個職場那當然那個都無所謂可是看起來有一些並非是這個像剛剛人事長講的這麼樂觀可能那個數據就是可能是後面講的這些數據的這些同仁\n他可能是因為在工作上是不是有什麼原因導致他願意放棄這麼好的工作都甘願要離開所以我希望說我們應該是要對人事總處應該是要對這個部分要去加強了解\n好,這個部分我也坦白承認在某些機關他因為那個管理的風格會不一樣所以同仁在那裡工作接著他壓力會特別大所以\n過去這兩年來我們花很多時間去宣導嚴禁職場霸凌因為有些同仁他事實上是默默在做可是每一個機關所長的管理風格也不大一樣所以我們也特別透過我們人事體系去宣導\n職場霸凌就是這個情況必須要去禁止因為我自己也聽過幾個case是屬於職場霸凌所以員工他承受不了所以他就選擇辭職啊這個就是在委員裡面的就管理因素的部分那當然待遇福利的部分也是會有因為他每一個人的本來到公務機關是希望尋求一個比較安定的吧可是當他家裡的財務需求改變的時候有時候他會\n選擇到民間或許他的報酬會比較高一點我還是\n就是請我們人事總署這邊吼因為我們要把好的人才留住一定要對症下藥你要去找到問題所在才有辦法去解決阿不然你更好的人才撈不住你說政府有多好我看都悠閒啦所以我請我們人事總署這邊對這個問題要持續去關心吼那對於在這個有一些是不是可能這些我們這些同仁是因為\n所謂的不適任或是因為這個烤雞被打丁等或是被記兩隻大過之後有這種被動離開的情況這個部分我還是請人事總處對於這個部分也要去深入去了解避免這種好像也是職場的另外一種霸凌的現象\n我這裡跟委員報告一下啦這一種因為烤雞丁等或者兩大過離開的每一年大概就是大概最多大概5位左右那這一些事實上經過每一個機關的內部的烤雞委員會他們很嚴格的去review因為這牽涉到當事人的潛意太大所以他們機關在執行這件事情的時候也非常慎重\n同時我們也在保訊會有提供了一個他可以救濟的一個途徑所以這一方面我我想一方面我會答應委員我們特別去了解這一些兩大過的或者丁等的這一些事由我們會去做一些進一步的一個分析我覺得\n這些資訊也是非常有意義的然後我們也去在人事的先導裡面去加強個人權益保障的先導好 這部分請我們人事總處持續關心那接下來我想請教就是我們針對這個彈性工作的部分在我們目前我們\n我想請教就是說目前我們機關對於辦理這個彈性工作的這個時間方面是否符合我們公務人員的需求需不需要再擴大那如果要再擴大我們機關辦理的配套措施是否完善\n我這裡跟委員報告一下因為我們為了要照顧這個養育家裡有未足三足歲的這個都可以請義嬰假留子停薪去照顧那這個是屬於一個長期間的他可以請一天一直到\n那小孩子3歲以前他可以分次可以請這個對當事人來講他的一個按照他的需求他可以很彈性那常態型的常態型的我們所了解的各個機關他的彈性上班每一天上班的時間他有些是彈性半個小時以下有些半小時到一小時也有一些一小時到兩小時到一小時到一小時半還有一小時半到兩小時那有少數機關\n公務機關都有在實施啦那我還是希望說對於彈性放假的部分我們能夠確確的給予我們公務人員比較\n議員議員議員議員\n特別去問在離島某些地區他們就是在半個小時以內所以我我一直我就是我會提出來阿你摸到彈性1點鐘阿2點鐘阿他們都有特殊的考慮阿因為那是內部管理事項所以基本上我們還是會尊重這些每一個機關他的一些考量\n那另外我想請教我們人事長就是針對我們這個居家辦公的部分居家辦公因為我們因應之前COVID-19的那一段期間那因為這個疫情非常嚴峻那導致我們許多不管是機關或是這個私人的公司都一樣有啟動這個居家辦公那目前我們對於居家辦公的部分我們有沒有進一步的這個安排的方式\n我這裡跟委員報告一下我們現在有提出一個示範計畫一直到明年年底就是based on之前COVID-19的這個我們在持續在明年年底這段期間可以允許居家上班\n服務和居家上班的這個要件的準和錢還是在各個機關所長那基本上我們有做一件事情就是鼓勵家庭就是你家庭有人需要照顧可能連長的父母親或者家裡有一些需要就身體情況的反而就是他可以提出來經過機關所長同意的話他可以居家上班那至於居家上班一次是以一個月或兩個月或者\n兩個禮拜再加兩個禮拜再這個是尊重每一個機關的規劃我們很care這件事情因為我覺得完成做好一件事情不見得一定要到辦公室可是有幾個情況例外就是說他如果他擔任的是第一線服務的就比較沒有辦法如果他擔任的工作是比較機敏性的他當然也比較沒有辦法把一些工作帶回家\n當然會有一些他的工作的場域的問題會有一些差異性再請教一個那個人事長一個問題就是居家辦公的部分會不會影響到他的年終考期\n我希望說對於居家辦公的部分我們也可以有一套比較完整的一個規劃讓有需要的在我們相關部會他可能在他的工作性質上不影響的情況之下可以讓他來申請這種居家辦公的方式\n其實我要再補充一下因為其實過去這幾年來我們有些公務同仁他可能會有一些Cancer的部分有做化療他比較不方便來上班像這一些我了解的幾個部位都有允許他們在家裡上班尤其他們又剛好去擔任一些研究型的工作這個部分我想很多機關首長都有做這樣的一個統一讓他們在機甲上班的情況\n好以上謝謝人事長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:19.721 --> 00:24.826\n好,謝謝主席。那主席可以請我們人事長。有請所有人事長。\n\n00:28.352 --> 00:52.262\n委員早安人事長還有我們所有今天列席的各位首長我們今天與會的所有委員大家早首先我想請教我們人事長就最近我們公務人員這個出走潮的問題啦出走潮問題因為過去的民眾一般普遍都認為說這個公務人員是一個鐵飯碗那工作非常的穩定\n\n00:53.422 --> 01:07.532\n而且考試能夠考得上這個成本也花費非常的多非常的不容易那所以會非常珍惜這個工作的機會所以在最近有許多公務人員離開的這個新聞我們從這個數據上可以去看到\n\n01:12.115 --> 01:33.188\n此指的人數從109年到111年每年都有成長10%以上其中此指的原因有高達88%都寫著說是因為個人因素但是我們知道個人因素就像這個生涯規劃一樣是沒有辦法掌握到此指的真正原因\n\n01:34.366 --> 01:55.615\n然而我們面對不斷辭職的這些同仁我想請教就是說人事機關是不是有需要確實去掌握這個主要的原因才能夠對症下藥所以我請教我們人事長有沒有辦法掌握到我們這些公務人員他們真正辭職的原因是什麼\n\n01:57.629 --> 02:16.773\n謝謝委員我想辭職的原因主要因為會有所謂的辭職跟離職兩個定義那現在委員指教的就是辭職事實上平均的辭職率大概0.75%大概我們公共人力的0.75%這0.75%裡面大概接近45%是因為有\n\n02:23.254 --> 02:46.358\n百分之45是屬於他本來是屬於普考的他考上高考所以他會辭職他會去就那個高考因為整個大一個畫面的條件會不一樣這個主要是第一個區塊在這裡第二個也有也有些公務通人他會去特別去考那個公營事業因為公營事業相關的業保障措施也不錯\n\n02:46.938 --> 03:06.515\n所以這裏面大概有接近45%是轉換跑道到一個值等比較高一個到走公營事業部分這個大概接近45%另外就陳儒委員這個螢幕上面寫的就是訓練發展、管理因素、待遇福利各方面我想\n\n03:07.176 --> 03:07.476\n好,謝謝人事長\n\n03:26.383 --> 03:49.522\n如果說像陳儒剛剛人事長講的我們這些同仁他可能是因為有比較好的工作或是因為在一樣是公務體系裡面他想要去轉換另外一個職場那當然那個都無所謂可是看起來有一些並非是這個像剛剛人事長講的這麼樂觀可能那個數據就是可能是後面講的這些數據的這些同仁\n\n03:51.724 --> 04:05.445\n他可能是因為在工作上是不是有什麼原因導致他願意放棄這麼好的工作都甘願要離開所以我希望說我們應該是要對人事總處應該是要對這個部分要去加強了解\n\n04:06.670 --> 04:21.321\n好,這個部分我也坦白承認在某些機關他因為那個管理的風格會不一樣所以同仁在那裡工作接著他壓力會特別大所以\n\n04:22.001 --> 04:37.611\n過去這兩年來我們花很多時間去宣導嚴禁職場霸凌因為有些同仁他事實上是默默在做可是每一個機關所長的管理風格也不大一樣所以我們也特別透過我們人事體系去宣導\n\n04:38.791 --> 05:07.823\n職場霸凌就是這個情況必須要去禁止因為我自己也聽過幾個case是屬於職場霸凌所以員工他承受不了所以他就選擇辭職啊這個就是在委員裡面的就管理因素的部分那當然待遇福利的部分也是會有因為他每一個人的本來到公務機關是希望尋求一個比較安定的吧可是當他家裡的財務需求改變的時候有時候他會\n\n05:09.264 --> 05:13.588\n選擇到民間或許他的報酬會比較高一點我還是\n\n05:19.235 --> 05:47.146\n就是請我們人事總署這邊吼因為我們要把好的人才留住一定要對症下藥你要去找到問題所在才有辦法去解決阿不然你更好的人才撈不住你說政府有多好我看都悠閒啦所以我請我們人事總署這邊對這個問題要持續去關心吼那對於在這個有一些是不是可能這些我們這些同仁是因為\n\n05:48.550 --> 06:08.000\n所謂的不適任或是因為這個烤雞被打丁等或是被記兩隻大過之後有這種被動離開的情況這個部分我還是請人事總處對於這個部分也要去深入去了解避免這種好像也是職場的另外一種霸凌的現象\n\n06:10.605 --> 06:36.452\n我這裡跟委員報告一下啦這一種因為烤雞丁等或者兩大過離開的每一年大概就是大概最多大概5位左右那這一些事實上經過每一個機關的內部的烤雞委員會他們很嚴格的去review因為這牽涉到當事人的潛意太大所以他們機關在執行這件事情的時候也非常慎重\n\n06:37.432 --> 06:55.328\n同時我們也在保訊會有提供了一個他可以救濟的一個途徑所以這一方面我我想一方面我會答應委員我們特別去了解這一些兩大過的或者丁等的這一些事由我們會去做一些進一步的一個分析我覺得\n\n06:56.228 --> 07:18.964\n這些資訊也是非常有意義的然後我們也去在人事的先導裡面去加強個人權益保障的先導好這部分請我們人事總處持續關心那接下來我想請教就是我們針對這個彈性工作的部分在我們目前我們\n\n07:21.957 --> 07:36.075\n我想請教就是說目前我們機關對於辦理這個彈性工作的這個時間方面是否符合我們公務人員的需求需不需要再擴大那如果要再擴大我們機關辦理的配套措施是否完善\n\n07:37.441 --> 07:54.830\n我這裡跟委員報告一下因為我們為了要照顧這個養育家裡有未足三足歲的這個都可以請義嬰假留子停薪去照顧那這個是屬於一個長期間的他可以請一天一直到\n\n07:55.310 --> 08:22.286\n那小孩子3歲以前他可以分次可以請這個對當事人來講他的一個按照他的需求他可以很彈性那常態型的常態型的我們所了解的各個機關他的彈性上班每一天上班的時間他有些是彈性半個小時以下有些半小時到一小時也有一些一小時到兩小時到一小時到一小時半還有一小時半到兩小時那有少數機關\n\n08:23.066 --> 08:24.868\n公務機關都有在實施啦那我還是希望說對於彈性放假的部分我們能夠確確的給予我們公務人員比較\n\n09:02.341 --> 09:22.356\n特別去問在離島某些地區他們就是在半個小時以內所以我我一直我就是我會提出來阿你摸到彈性1點鐘阿2點鐘阿他們都有特殊的考慮阿因為那是內部管理事項所以基本上我們還是會尊重這些每一個機關他的一些考量\n\n09:23.877 --> 09:50.348\n那另外我想請教我們人事長就是針對我們這個居家辦公的部分居家辦公因為我們因應之前COVID-19的那一段期間那因為這個疫情非常嚴峻那導致我們許多不管是機關或是這個私人的公司都一樣有啟動這個居家辦公那目前我們對於居家辦公的部分我們有沒有進一步的這個安排的方式\n\n09:51.089 --> 10:08.134\n我這裡跟委員報告一下我們現在有提出一個示範計畫一直到明年年底就是basedon之前COVID-19的這個我們在持續在明年年底這段期間可以允許居家上班\n\n10:09.594 --> 10:36.142\n服務和居家上班的這個要件的準和錢還是在各個機關所長那基本上我們有做一件事情就是鼓勵家庭就是你家庭有人需要照顧可能連長的父母親或者家裡有一些需要就身體情況的反而就是他可以提出來經過機關所長同意的話他可以居家上班那至於居家上班一次是以一個月或兩個月或者\n\n10:38.383 --> 11:01.722\n兩個禮拜再加兩個禮拜再這個是尊重每一個機關的規劃我們很care這件事情因為我覺得完成做好一件事情不見得一定要到辦公室可是有幾個情況例外就是說他如果他擔任的是第一線服務的就比較沒有辦法如果他擔任的工作是比較機敏性的他當然也比較沒有辦法把一些工作帶回家\n\n11:02.242 --> 11:13.258\n當然會有一些他的工作的場域的問題會有一些差異性再請教一個那個人事長一個問題就是居家辦公的部分會不會影響到他的年終考期\n\n11:14.912 --> 11:35.708\n我希望說對於居家辦公的部分我們也可以有一套比較完整的一個規劃讓有需要的在我們相關部會他可能在他的工作性質上不影響的情況之下可以讓他來申請這種居家辦公的方式\n\n11:36.028 --> 12:04.787\n其實我要再補充一下因為其實過去這幾年來我們有些公務同仁他可能會有一些Cancer的部分有做化療他比較不方便來上班像這一些我了解的幾個部位都有允許他們在家裡上班尤其他們又剛好去擔任一些研究型的工作這個部分我想很多機關首長都有做這樣的一個統一讓他們在機甲上班的情況\n\n12:05.789 --> 12:07.161\n好以上謝謝人事長\n\n","segments":[{"start":19.721,"end":24.826,"text":"好,謝謝主席。那主席可以請我們人事長。有請所有人事長。"},{"start":28.352,"end":52.262,"text":"委員早安人事長還有我們所有今天列席的各位首長我們今天與會的所有委員大家早首先我想請教我們人事長就最近我們公務人員這個出走潮的問題啦出走潮問題因為過去的民眾一般普遍都認為說這個公務人員是一個鐵飯碗那工作非常的穩定"},{"start":53.422,"end":67.532,"text":"而且考試能夠考得上這個成本也花費非常的多非常的不容易那所以會非常珍惜這個工作的機會所以在最近有許多公務人員離開的這個新聞我們從這個數據上可以去看到"},{"start":72.115,"end":93.188,"text":"此指的人數從109年到111年每年都有成長10%以上其中此指的原因有高達88%都寫著說是因為個人因素但是我們知道個人因素就像這個生涯規劃一樣是沒有辦法掌握到此指的真正原因"},{"start":94.366,"end":115.615,"text":"然而我們面對不斷辭職的這些同仁我想請教就是說人事機關是不是有需要確實去掌握這個主要的原因才能夠對症下藥所以我請教我們人事長有沒有辦法掌握到我們這些公務人員他們真正辭職的原因是什麼"},{"start":117.629,"end":136.773,"text":"謝謝委員我想辭職的原因主要因為會有所謂的辭職跟離職兩個定義那現在委員指教的就是辭職事實上平均的辭職率大概0.75%大概我們公共人力的0.75%這0.75%裡面大概接近45%是因為有"},{"start":143.254,"end":166.358,"text":"百分之45是屬於他本來是屬於普考的他考上高考所以他會辭職他會去就那個高考因為整個大一個畫面的條件會不一樣這個主要是第一個區塊在這裡第二個也有也有些公務通人他會去特別去考那個公營事業因為公營事業相關的業保障措施也不錯"},{"start":166.938,"end":186.515,"text":"所以這裏面大概有接近45%是轉換跑道到一個值等比較高一個到走公營事業部分這個大概接近45%另外就陳儒委員這個螢幕上面寫的就是訓練發展、管理因素、待遇福利各方面我想"},{"start":187.176,"end":187.476,"text":"好,謝謝人事長"},{"start":206.383,"end":229.522,"text":"如果說像陳儒剛剛人事長講的我們這些同仁他可能是因為有比較好的工作或是因為在一樣是公務體系裡面他想要去轉換另外一個職場那當然那個都無所謂可是看起來有一些並非是這個像剛剛人事長講的這麼樂觀可能那個數據就是可能是後面講的這些數據的這些同仁"},{"start":231.724,"end":245.445,"text":"他可能是因為在工作上是不是有什麼原因導致他願意放棄這麼好的工作都甘願要離開所以我希望說我們應該是要對人事總處應該是要對這個部分要去加強了解"},{"start":246.67,"end":261.321,"text":"好,這個部分我也坦白承認在某些機關他因為那個管理的風格會不一樣所以同仁在那裡工作接著他壓力會特別大所以"},{"start":262.001,"end":277.611,"text":"過去這兩年來我們花很多時間去宣導嚴禁職場霸凌因為有些同仁他事實上是默默在做可是每一個機關所長的管理風格也不大一樣所以我們也特別透過我們人事體系去宣導"},{"start":278.791,"end":307.823,"text":"職場霸凌就是這個情況必須要去禁止因為我自己也聽過幾個case是屬於職場霸凌所以員工他承受不了所以他就選擇辭職啊這個就是在委員裡面的就管理因素的部分那當然待遇福利的部分也是會有因為他每一個人的本來到公務機關是希望尋求一個比較安定的吧可是當他家裡的財務需求改變的時候有時候他會"},{"start":309.264,"end":313.588,"text":"選擇到民間或許他的報酬會比較高一點我還是"},{"start":319.235,"end":347.146,"text":"就是請我們人事總署這邊吼因為我們要把好的人才留住一定要對症下藥你要去找到問題所在才有辦法去解決阿不然你更好的人才撈不住你說政府有多好我看都悠閒啦所以我請我們人事總署這邊對這個問題要持續去關心吼那對於在這個有一些是不是可能這些我們這些同仁是因為"},{"start":348.55,"end":368,"text":"所謂的不適任或是因為這個烤雞被打丁等或是被記兩隻大過之後有這種被動離開的情況這個部分我還是請人事總處對於這個部分也要去深入去了解避免這種好像也是職場的另外一種霸凌的現象"},{"start":370.605,"end":396.452,"text":"我這裡跟委員報告一下啦這一種因為烤雞丁等或者兩大過離開的每一年大概就是大概最多大概5位左右那這一些事實上經過每一個機關的內部的烤雞委員會他們很嚴格的去review因為這牽涉到當事人的潛意太大所以他們機關在執行這件事情的時候也非常慎重"},{"start":397.432,"end":415.328,"text":"同時我們也在保訊會有提供了一個他可以救濟的一個途徑所以這一方面我我想一方面我會答應委員我們特別去了解這一些兩大過的或者丁等的這一些事由我們會去做一些進一步的一個分析我覺得"},{"start":416.228,"end":438.964,"text":"這些資訊也是非常有意義的然後我們也去在人事的先導裡面去加強個人權益保障的先導好 這部分請我們人事總處持續關心那接下來我想請教就是我們針對這個彈性工作的部分在我們目前我們"},{"start":441.957,"end":456.075,"text":"我想請教就是說目前我們機關對於辦理這個彈性工作的這個時間方面是否符合我們公務人員的需求需不需要再擴大那如果要再擴大我們機關辦理的配套措施是否完善"},{"start":457.441,"end":474.83,"text":"我這裡跟委員報告一下因為我們為了要照顧這個養育家裡有未足三足歲的這個都可以請義嬰假留子停薪去照顧那這個是屬於一個長期間的他可以請一天一直到"},{"start":475.31,"end":502.286,"text":"那小孩子3歲以前他可以分次可以請這個對當事人來講他的一個按照他的需求他可以很彈性那常態型的常態型的我們所了解的各個機關他的彈性上班每一天上班的時間他有些是彈性半個小時以下有些半小時到一小時也有一些一小時到兩小時到一小時到一小時半還有一小時半到兩小時那有少數機關"},{"start":503.066,"end":504.868,"text":"公務機關都有在實施啦那我還是希望說對於彈性放假的部分我們能夠確確的給予我們公務人員比較"},{"start":526.049,"end":542.261,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":542.341,"end":562.356,"text":"特別去問在離島某些地區他們就是在半個小時以內所以我我一直我就是我會提出來阿你摸到彈性1點鐘阿2點鐘阿他們都有特殊的考慮阿因為那是內部管理事項所以基本上我們還是會尊重這些每一個機關他的一些考量"},{"start":563.877,"end":590.348,"text":"那另外我想請教我們人事長就是針對我們這個居家辦公的部分居家辦公因為我們因應之前COVID-19的那一段期間那因為這個疫情非常嚴峻那導致我們許多不管是機關或是這個私人的公司都一樣有啟動這個居家辦公那目前我們對於居家辦公的部分我們有沒有進一步的這個安排的方式"},{"start":591.089,"end":608.134,"text":"我這裡跟委員報告一下我們現在有提出一個示範計畫一直到明年年底就是based on之前COVID-19的這個我們在持續在明年年底這段期間可以允許居家上班"},{"start":609.594,"end":636.142,"text":"服務和居家上班的這個要件的準和錢還是在各個機關所長那基本上我們有做一件事情就是鼓勵家庭就是你家庭有人需要照顧可能連長的父母親或者家裡有一些需要就身體情況的反而就是他可以提出來經過機關所長同意的話他可以居家上班那至於居家上班一次是以一個月或兩個月或者"},{"start":638.383,"end":661.722,"text":"兩個禮拜再加兩個禮拜再這個是尊重每一個機關的規劃我們很care這件事情因為我覺得完成做好一件事情不見得一定要到辦公室可是有幾個情況例外就是說他如果他擔任的是第一線服務的就比較沒有辦法如果他擔任的工作是比較機敏性的他當然也比較沒有辦法把一些工作帶回家"},{"start":662.242,"end":673.258,"text":"當然會有一些他的工作的場域的問題會有一些差異性再請教一個那個人事長一個問題就是居家辦公的部分會不會影響到他的年終考期"},{"start":674.912,"end":695.708,"text":"我希望說對於居家辦公的部分我們也可以有一套比較完整的一個規劃讓有需要的在我們相關部會他可能在他的工作性質上不影響的情況之下可以讓他來申請這種居家辦公的方式"},{"start":696.028,"end":724.787,"text":"其實我要再補充一下因為其實過去這幾年來我們有些公務同仁他可能會有一些Cancer的部分有做化療他比較不方便來上班像這一些我了解的幾個部位都有允許他們在家裡上班尤其他們又剛好去擔任一些研究型的工作這個部分我想很多機關首長都有做這樣的一個統一讓他們在機甲上班的情況"},{"start":725.789,"end":727.161,"text":"好以上謝謝人事長"}]}}}}