{"id":150531,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150531","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d551496e3980f54eefa3d9204d572e03aff8ba9b0039caa7a6691786d69a23c4665ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"12:19:05 - 12:29:54","影片長度":"00:10:49","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍結案49案(含報告事項45案及討論事項4案)。【如經復議則不予處理或審查】\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】\n【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-9"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":649,"end_time":"2024-03-27T12:29:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T12:19:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1073,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（12時19分）謝謝主席，請薛部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["薛部長富盛：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：薛部長，剛才黃委員也特別提到彰化晶鼎焚化爐的事件，他們前陣子開說明會，本席相信很多委員都很關心。本席想請教的是，關於他們這個說明會，本席認為他們只是要過水啦！剛才黃委員也說了當天的狀況，黑衣人占據整個說明會的空間，當地居民沒有辦法進去。當然在地的陳秀寳委員也關心這一件，他在現場也有表達。我想請教部長，如果當地居民沒辦法很充分地來表達他們的意見，這樣的一個環評說明會符合程序嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：給黃委員報告，根據環評法的規定，說明會必須有一個程序，其中之一就是要讓參與者登記發言；如果發言的時間不夠，當然可以改成書面。我們會看看晶鼎回復給我們的……"],["黃委員秀芳：所以晶鼎現在回復你們了嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：還沒有，因為deadline是3月31日，我們會根據環評法的法規來看他們有沒有讓反對者或是參與者當初登記要發言的，有沒有表達意見的機會？"],["黃委員秀芳：如果沒有呢？如果反對者沒有表達意見的話？"],["薛部長富盛：我們就不接受他的說明會。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。很多地方民眾真的非常關心這一件，因為彰化焚化爐的密度真的是太高了……"],["薛部長富盛：是，我深切了解。"],["黃委員秀芳：尤其是彰化工業區，包括彰濱工業區、全興、線西區這邊的焚化爐密度太高了，而且北有火力發電廠，南有六輕，整個彰化不論是彰化福興的酪農或是當地的農民，他們都非常擔心，萬一這個焚化爐再設下去，對當地的酪農業會有很大的影響，當地的居民也沒辦法充分地表達他們的意見。所以，我希望環境部針對這一場的環評說明會，應該要好好去思考一下，它到底只是過水，不讓反對的意見來表達？所以，我希望環境部收到資料之後，應該要好好去審查。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝黃委員的提醒。"],["黃委員秀芳：另外，今天特別列這個專題報告，主要是很多的民眾，尤其是中小企業，他們對於未來要徵收的碳費，其實是「霧煞煞」。部長應該也知道……"],["薛部長富盛：我可以體會啦。"],["黃委員秀芳：你們也有一個減碳專線，減碳專線到底發揮多大的功能，我不是那麼清楚；不然為什麼地方的一些中小企業會擔心，他們到底要怎麼做？未來所有的設施、設備要怎麼去改善？所以，我想請教部長，針對2025年要對企業界開始徵收碳費，如果是大企業應該就沒有問題，可是中小企業的話，就會有很多的疑慮，尤其他們的產品如果是銷歐洲的話，到底我們國家會怎麼去收這個碳費，而有很多的疑慮。請教部長，減碳專線到底有沒有發揮它的功能？"],["薛部長富盛：這一點我是不是請我們蔡署長來回答？"],["蔡署長玲儀：謝謝委員。其實我們成立的這個減碳專線，現在每天大概都幾十通的電話，民眾會進來詢問，我們同仁也都會針對民眾的問題回答。他們關心的是怎麼減碳，然後他自己怎麼樣可以來取得我們自願減量的額度。我們現在除了去整理這些疑問，也儘量在網站上公開之外，我們最近也正在規劃，因為中小企業畢竟不是現在的碳費徵收對象，所以我們現在跟經濟部合作，如何去協助讓這些中小企業能夠熟悉這個碳盤查的工作，最近也在跟經濟部一起去增加這些相關的說明會，還有課程的開設。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以，中小企業目前還不是你們徵收的對象，可能是碳排大戶優先？但是未來這些中小企業的東西如果是銷歐盟的話，也會有這個壓力啊！"],["薛部長富盛：是，他必須去買憑證。"],["黃委員秀芳：對啊！"],["薛部長富盛：所以經濟部在這一塊，據我所瞭解，他們是加大力道來輔導，包括跟各個加工產業園區、科學園區等等，也的確是比較屬於傳統產業的這一塊，衝擊比較大。反而是比較屬於科技業的這一塊，他們老早就有一些心理準備，當然他們整個競爭的體質……"],["黃委員秀芳：他要跟國際競爭，當然他就是要讓自己怎麼去更精進嘛！可是中小企業可能沒有辦法自己去做這樣的處理，譬如你現在請他做碳盤查，搞不好他自己也不清楚要怎麼盤查，所以這個也是要環境部去輔導。我是不是可以建議，如果有中小企業，我現在講的不是大企業，我覺得那個大企業都沒有問題，中小企業如果有這個需求，主動跟你們要求的話，你們是不是也可以到地方去說明？"],["薛部長富盛：可以。這個我們可以。"],["黃委員秀芳：我想請教的是，未來開始徵收碳費之後，經濟上會不會有一些影響？國際的競爭力會不會也有一些影響？"],["薛部長富盛：黃委員提得很好，這個也是我們必須去找到它的一個合適點。也就是說，除了朝向淨零排放的目標路徑圖來完成之外，也一定要讓我們的產業有競爭力，因為臺灣畢竟是以出口為導向。因為這兩方面的角度不一樣，所以才會讓我們在這期間面臨一些挑戰。在時間上，假如沒有辦法如我們當初理想的預期，可能也要請大家稍微諒解一下。"],["黃委員秀芳：我想請教部長，現在這個碳費要怎麼徵收，你們還沒有確定，未來企業繳交碳費跟國際要怎麼去對接，或者是跟歐盟的CBAM是不是有這個抵減，我並不清楚；也就是跟其他國家、跟歐盟這邊，要怎麼去對接？譬如他在臺灣已經繳碳費了，到了另外一個國家，可能是歐洲……"],["薛部長富盛：到歐盟就OK，因為它這個憑證特別是官方的，歐盟基本上會認認證這一塊。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，所以就是我們國家徵收的碳費到了歐盟，他們也會認……"],["薛部長富盛：是，也可以抵！"],["黃委員秀芳：所以就不會有一個重複負擔的……"],["薛部長富盛：不會，不會。但是兩個對象現在來講，重疊不高，CBAM是以產品的這一塊；環境部基本上是針對排碳大戶這一塊，裡面會有一點點重疊，但不會很多。"],["黃委員秀芳：我們的碳費到現在都還沒有定出來，你們預計明年（2025年）要開始徵收，這樣真的來得及嗎？現在都已經3月底了，我實在是很擔心，而且大家真的都很關心。所以請部長再說一次。"],["薛部長富盛：好，我再說一次，就是今年開徵，明年繳費；我們當初的期待是從1月1日開始算，但是現在綜合各方意見，起徵點是不是要往後？這一塊是可以討論的。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以本來是2025年1月1日？"],["薛部長富盛：不是，本來是今年。"],["黃委員秀芳：本來是今年起徵，明年繳費？"],["薛部長富盛：繳碳費的概念跟所得稅的概念一樣，就是你去年所得收入多少，你今年……"],["黃委員秀芳：所以2025年他繳的是2024年的碳費？"],["薛部長富盛：對，當初我們期待1月1日開始。現在因為費率還沒有出來，所以是有一些空間可以在什麼時間點開始算，這個我覺得是……"],["黃委員秀芳：所以什麼時間點開始算，你們也都還還沒有確定？"],["薛部長富盛：可以討論；但是會在今年開徵。"],["黃委員秀芳：今年開徵，明年收費？所以到底是什麼時候開徵，這個時間點還沒有確定？"],["薛部長富盛：可以討論。有討論空間。"],["黃委員秀芳：請部長針對這個，要趕快做一個決定，因為大家都非常的關心。"],["薛部長富盛：瞭解。"],["黃委員秀芳：當然另外一派的說法，就是不要太倉促；也有一派的說法是希望趕快確定，所以請環境部這邊儘快把這個確定下來也是好的啦。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝黃委員的提醒。"],["主席：接下來請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員發言，鄭正鈐委員不在。","請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-9","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","陳菁徽","劉建國","盧縣一","陳昭姿","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","洪申翰","李彥秀","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","羅智強","黃國昌","陳冠廷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132102_00002","1132102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長就「邁向碳有價時代，碳費擬定時程表及碳費審議委員會之相關內容」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關環境部主管預算凍\n結案49案（含報告事項45案及討論事項4案）（前接第一冊）","agenda_id":"1132102_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150531","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150531","tool":"pyannote","id":"150531-pyannote"},"job_id":"4NslyXaNAGxR88hC","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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{\"word\": \"啟\"}, {\"word\": \"喜\", \"start\": 644.093, \"end\": 644.173, \"score\": 0.719}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 644.173, \"end\": 644.193, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 644.193, \"end\": 644.533, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 644.533, \"end\": 644.714, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 644.714, \"end\": 645.534, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 645.534, \"end\": 645.554, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"鄭\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 645.554, \"end\": 645.674, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 645.674, \"end\": 645.694, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,177 --> 00:00:06,242\n謝謝主席。我們請薛部長。\n\n2\n00:00:15,820 --> 00:00:28,868\n黃委員也特別提到彰化金鼎焚化爐的事件他們在前陣子開說明會我相信很多委員都關心我想請教說明會我是認為它是要過水因為當天\n\n3\n00:00:36,492 --> 00:01:04,530\n當天剛剛黃委員講的很多黑衣人就佔據整個說明會的這個空間那當地的居民他是沒辦法進到這個空間裡面的那當然就是說在地的委員陳秀寶委員他也關心這一件他有在現場有表達那我想請教部長如果當地的居民沒辦法很充分的來表達他們的意見的話那這樣的環評的一個說明會這樣是符合程序嗎\n\n4\n00:01:05,850 --> 00:01:29,706\n給黃委員報告根據環評法裡面的規定說明會它必須有一個程序其中之一就是要讓參議者登記去花園假如花園的時間不夠當然可以改成書面我們會根據看看金鼎他回覆給我們的所以金鼎現在有回覆你們了嗎?還沒有因為在那裡是3月31啦是\n\n5\n00:01:32,548 --> 00:01:49,127\n對那是3031那我們會根據我們環評法法規來看他有沒有讓反對者或者說參議者當初登記要花園有沒有讓他表達意見的機會那如果沒有反對者沒有表達意見的話那我們就不接受他的這個說明會\n\n6\n00:01:50,663 --> 00:02:03,541\n好那我相信很多人就是地方民眾真的非常的關心這一件因為彰化彰化的這個焚化爐的密度真的是太高了尤其是在這個彰化工業區這一邊\n\n7\n00:02:06,244 --> 00:02:07,625\n中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度\n\n8\n00:02:21,596 --> 00:02:27,240\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n9\n00:02:49,434 --> 00:03:16,996\n只是過水所以我希望就是說環境部你們收到資料之後應該要好好去這個審查啦好謝謝黃文的提醒另外今天特別提這個就是列這個專題報告就是說我們很多的這個民眾尤其是這個中小企業啦他們對於未來要徵收這個碳費其實不傻傻啦這個部長你應該也知道\n\n10\n00:03:22,942 --> 00:03:33,594\n檢探專線到底發揮多大的功能我不是那麼清楚不然為什麼在這個地方的一些中小企業他們也會擔心就是說\n\n11\n00:03:34,315 --> 00:03:58,016\n一到底不知道要怎麼做?到底他未來的所有的設施設備要怎麼去做改善?所以我想請教部長針對你們的這個有關2025年要開始徵收這個碳費那一些這個尤其是企業界尤其是中小企業如果大企業應該就沒有問題那中小企業的話\n\n12\n00:03:58,857 --> 00:04:21,760\n會有很多的疑慮尤其是他們如果他們的產品是銷歐美歐歐洲的話他們會有很多的疑慮到底我們國家會到底怎麼去收這個碳費那我是不是請部長我們這個減碳專線到底有沒有發揮它的功能這點我是不是請我們這個蔡市長來回答一下\n\n13\n00:04:22,261 --> 00:04:24,123\n檢探專線每天都幾時通電話,民眾會進來詢問。當然我們同仁都是針對民眾的問題,他們關心的就是怎麼檢探,甚至他自己怎麼樣可以取得自願減量的額度。\n\n14\n00:04:43,061 --> 00:04:51,423\n除了去整理了這些疑問我們也盡量在網站上公開之外那我們最近也正在規劃因為畢竟中小企業不是我們現在碳費徵收的對象所以我們現在跟經濟部合作是如何去協助讓這些中小企業能夠熟悉這個碳盤查的工作所以我們會最近也在跟經濟部一起\n\n15\n00:05:04,767 --> 00:05:32,247\n去增加這些相關的這個說明會還有課程的開設是所以現在目前中小企業不是你們徵收的這個對象你們是優先就是這個可能是大戶嘛是不是碳排的大戶那當然就是說這些中小企業他未來如果他的東西是銷歐盟的話其實他也會有這個壓力啊是他必須去買憑證對啊對啊所以經濟部在這一塊事實上我所了解是\n\n16\n00:05:52,622 --> 00:06:05,910\n當然他要跟國際競爭當然他就是自己要怎麼去讓更精進可是中小企業他可能沒有辦法自己去做這樣的一個譬如說你現在請他做碳盤廠\n\n17\n00:06:07,051 --> 00:06:34,215\n搞不好他自己也不清楚要怎麼盤查所以這個也是要我們環境部這邊去輔導那我是不是可以建議就是說如果有這個企業中小企業我現在講的不是大企業大企業我覺得那個是都沒有問題中小企業如果有這個需求的話是不是可以請這個環境部這邊尤其是在如果他們有主動跟你們要求的話是不是你們也可以到地方去說明\n\n18\n00:06:34,935 --> 00:06:37,398\n未來如果開始徵收碳費之後,會不會影響到經濟上或國際競爭力?\n\n19\n00:06:53,003 --> 00:07:13,391\n黃委員提得很好這個也是在某個程度我們一直在這一塊必須去找到一個這個合適點就是說除了朝向我們淨零排放的目標路徑圖來完成之外我們也一定要讓我們的產業有競爭力因為台灣畢竟是一個出口為導向\n\n20\n00:07:14,571 --> 00:07:34,413\n所以也才因為就是這個兩方面的這個角度不一樣所以才會讓我們在這期間當然會面臨一些挑戰在時間上假如沒有辦法如我們當初理想的預期可能也要請這個大家來稍微這個諒解一下這樣子\n\n21\n00:07:35,214 --> 00:07:57,373\n部長我想請教就是說我們現在開始當然這個碳費怎麼徵收你們還沒有確定那這個未來就是說如果7月繳交這個碳費那跟這個國際怎麼去對接或者是跟這個歐盟的這個西北是不是有這個抵檢這個我不清楚那會不會有這樣子的一個\n\n22\n00:07:59,155 --> 00:07:59,455\n議員提供的答案\n\n23\n00:08:17,376 --> 00:08:38,626\n所以變成說我們國家徵收的這個碳費到歐盟他也會認所以就不會有一個重複負擔的這種不會不會不會但是這兩個對象現在來講重疊不高啦是就是說基本以產品的這一塊那環境部基本上是針對排碳大戶這一塊裡面會有一點點重疊但是不會很多對\n\n24\n00:08:40,427 --> 00:09:05,419\n我是希望就是說未來我們這個碳費其實你們到現在都還沒有訂出來那你預計是明年2025年要開始徵收嗎?那你這樣到底真的來得及嗎?現在已經三月底了我實在是真的也很擔心而且大家都很關心啦真的是很關心所以部長你再講一次好嗎?好,我講一次就是說今年開徵啦\n\n25\n00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:08,740\n一月一號\n\n26\n00:09:30,063 --> 00:09:58,730\n不是本來事實上是今年今年起徵明年繳費繳碳費的概念是跟所得稅的概念一樣就是說你去年所得收入多少你今年所以變成說2025年他繳的是2024年的這個碳費當初我們是期待是1、2月1號開始那現在也因為費率還沒有出來所以是有一些空間可以在\n\n27\n00:09:59,650 --> 00:09:59,770\n主席\n\n28\n00:10:21,927 --> 00:10:45,694\n我請部長就針對這個真的要趕快做一個決定啦因為真的大家都非常的關心啦那如果是了解對當然有另外一派的說法是說不要太倉促啦那當然有一派的說法是希望就趕快確定所以就希望環境部這邊真的盡快把這個確定下來也是好的啦好不好謝謝黃瀚啟喜好謝謝好謝謝接下來我們請鄭正前\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5177\t6242\t謝謝主席。我們請薛部長。\n15820\t28868\t黃委員也特別提到彰化金鼎焚化爐的事件他們在前陣子開說明會我相信很多委員都關心我想請教說明會我是認為它是要過水因為當天\n36492\t64530\t當天剛剛黃委員講的很多黑衣人就佔據整個說明會的這個空間那當地的居民他是沒辦法進到這個空間裡面的那當然就是說在地的委員陳秀寶委員他也關心這一件他有在現場有表達那我想請教部長如果當地的居民沒辦法很充分的來表達他們的意見的話那這樣的環評的一個說明會這樣是符合程序嗎\n65850\t89706\t給黃委員報告根據環評法裡面的規定說明會它必須有一個程序其中之一就是要讓參議者登記去花園假如花園的時間不夠當然可以改成書面我們會根據看看金鼎他回覆給我們的所以金鼎現在有回覆你們了嗎?還沒有因為在那裡是3月31啦是\n92548\t109127\t對那是3031那我們會根據我們環評法法規來看他有沒有讓反對者或者說參議者當初登記要花園有沒有讓他表達意見的機會那如果沒有反對者沒有表達意見的話那我們就不接受他的這個說明會\n110663\t123541\t好那我相信很多人就是地方民眾真的非常的關心這一件因為彰化彰化的這個焚化爐的密度真的是太高了尤其是在這個彰化工業區這一邊\n126244\t127625\t中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度\n141596\t147240\t含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n169434\t196996\t只是過水所以我希望就是說環境部你們收到資料之後應該要好好去這個審查啦好謝謝黃文的提醒另外今天特別提這個就是列這個專題報告就是說我們很多的這個民眾尤其是這個中小企業啦他們對於未來要徵收這個碳費其實不傻傻啦這個部長你應該也知道\n202942\t213594\t檢探專線到底發揮多大的功能我不是那麼清楚不然為什麼在這個地方的一些中小企業他們也會擔心就是說\n214315\t238016\t一到底不知道要怎麼做?到底他未來的所有的設施設備要怎麼去做改善?所以我想請教部長針對你們的這個有關2025年要開始徵收這個碳費那一些這個尤其是企業界尤其是中小企業如果大企業應該就沒有問題那中小企業的話\n238857\t261760\t會有很多的疑慮尤其是他們如果他們的產品是銷歐美歐歐洲的話他們會有很多的疑慮到底我們國家會到底怎麼去收這個碳費那我是不是請部長我們這個減碳專線到底有沒有發揮它的功能這點我是不是請我們這個蔡市長來回答一下\n262261\t264123\t檢探專線每天都幾時通電話,民眾會進來詢問。當然我們同仁都是針對民眾的問題,他們關心的就是怎麼檢探,甚至他自己怎麼樣可以取得自願減量的額度。\n283061\t291423\t除了去整理了這些疑問我們也盡量在網站上公開之外那我們最近也正在規劃因為畢竟中小企業不是我們現在碳費徵收的對象所以我們現在跟經濟部合作是如何去協助讓這些中小企業能夠熟悉這個碳盤查的工作所以我們會最近也在跟經濟部一起\n304767\t332247\t去增加這些相關的這個說明會還有課程的開設是所以現在目前中小企業不是你們徵收的這個對象你們是優先就是這個可能是大戶嘛是不是碳排的大戶那當然就是說這些中小企業他未來如果他的東西是銷歐盟的話其實他也會有這個壓力啊是他必須去買憑證對啊對啊所以經濟部在這一塊事實上我所了解是\n332927\t351681\t議員議員\n352622\t365910\t當然他要跟國際競爭當然他就是自己要怎麼去讓更精進可是中小企業他可能沒有辦法自己去做這樣的一個譬如說你現在請他做碳盤廠\n367051\t394215\t搞不好他自己也不清楚要怎麼盤查所以這個也是要我們環境部這邊去輔導那我是不是可以建議就是說如果有這個企業中小企業我現在講的不是大企業大企業我覺得那個是都沒有問題中小企業如果有這個需求的話是不是可以請這個環境部這邊尤其是在如果他們有主動跟你們要求的話是不是你們也可以到地方去說明\n394935\t397398\t未來如果開始徵收碳費之後,會不會影響到經濟上或國際競爭力?\n413003\t433391\t黃委員提得很好這個也是在某個程度我們一直在這一塊必須去找到一個這個合適點就是說除了朝向我們淨零排放的目標路徑圖來完成之外我們也一定要讓我們的產業有競爭力因為台灣畢竟是一個出口為導向\n434571\t454413\t所以也才因為就是這個兩方面的這個角度不一樣所以才會讓我們在這期間當然會面臨一些挑戰在時間上假如沒有辦法如我們當初理想的預期可能也要請這個大家來稍微這個諒解一下這樣子\n455214\t477373\t部長我想請教就是說我們現在開始當然這個碳費怎麼徵收你們還沒有確定那這個未來就是說如果7月繳交這個碳費那跟這個國際怎麼去對接或者是跟這個歐盟的這個西北是不是有這個抵檢這個我不清楚那會不會有這樣子的一個\n479155\t479455\t議員提供的答案\n497376\t518626\t所以變成說我們國家徵收的這個碳費到歐盟他也會認所以就不會有一個重複負擔的這種不會不會不會但是這兩個對象現在來講重疊不高啦是就是說基本以產品的這一塊那環境部基本上是針對排碳大戶這一塊裡面會有一點點重疊但是不會很多對\n520427\t545419\t我是希望就是說未來我們這個碳費其實你們到現在都還沒有訂出來那你預計是明年2025年要開始徵收嗎?那你這樣到底真的來得及嗎?現在已經三月底了我實在是真的也很擔心而且大家都很關心啦真的是很關心所以部長你再講一次好嗎?好,我講一次就是說今年開徵啦\n548340\t548740\t一月一號\n570063\t598730\t不是本來事實上是今年今年起徵明年繳費繳碳費的概念是跟所得稅的概念一樣就是說你去年所得收入多少你今年所以變成說2025年他繳的是2024年的這個碳費當初我們是期待是1、2月1號開始那現在也因為費率還沒有出來所以是有一些空間可以在\n599650\t599770\t主席\n621927\t645694\t我請部長就針對這個真的要趕快做一個決定啦因為真的大家都非常的關心啦那如果是 了解對當然有另外一派的說法是說不要太倉促啦那當然有一派的說法是希望就趕快確定所以就希望環境部這邊真的盡快把這個確定下來也是好的啦 好不好謝謝黃瀚啟喜好謝謝好謝謝接下來我們請鄭正前\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我們請薛部長。\n黃委員也特別提到彰化金鼎焚化爐的事件他們在前陣子開說明會我相信很多委員都關心我想請教說明會我是認為它是要過水因為當天\n當天剛剛黃委員講的很多黑衣人就佔據整個說明會的這個空間那當地的居民他是沒辦法進到這個空間裡面的那當然就是說在地的委員陳秀寶委員他也關心這一件他有在現場有表達那我想請教部長如果當地的居民沒辦法很充分的來表達他們的意見的話那這樣的環評的一個說明會這樣是符合程序嗎\n給黃委員報告根據環評法裡面的規定說明會它必須有一個程序其中之一就是要讓參議者登記去花園假如花園的時間不夠當然可以改成書面我們會根據看看金鼎他回覆給我們的所以金鼎現在有回覆你們了嗎?還沒有因為在那裡是3月31啦是\n對那是3031那我們會根據我們環評法法規來看他有沒有讓反對者或者說參議者當初登記要花園有沒有讓他表達意見的機會那如果沒有反對者沒有表達意見的話那我們就不接受他的這個說明會\n好那我相信很多人就是地方民眾真的非常的關心這一件因為彰化彰化的這個焚化爐的密度真的是太高了尤其是在這個彰化工業區這一邊\n中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n只是過水所以我希望就是說環境部你們收到資料之後應該要好好去這個審查啦好謝謝黃文的提醒另外今天特別提這個就是列這個專題報告就是說我們很多的這個民眾尤其是這個中小企業啦他們對於未來要徵收這個碳費其實不傻傻啦這個部長你應該也知道\n檢探專線到底發揮多大的功能我不是那麼清楚不然為什麼在這個地方的一些中小企業他們也會擔心就是說\n一到底不知道要怎麼做?到底他未來的所有的設施設備要怎麼去做改善?所以我想請教部長針對你們的這個有關2025年要開始徵收這個碳費那一些這個尤其是企業界尤其是中小企業如果大企業應該就沒有問題那中小企業的話\n會有很多的疑慮尤其是他們如果他們的產品是銷歐美歐歐洲的話他們會有很多的疑慮到底我們國家會到底怎麼去收這個碳費那我是不是請部長我們這個減碳專線到底有沒有發揮它的功能這點我是不是請我們這個蔡市長來回答一下\n檢探專線每天都幾時通電話,民眾會進來詢問。當然我們同仁都是針對民眾的問題,他們關心的就是怎麼檢探,甚至他自己怎麼樣可以取得自願減量的額度。\n除了去整理了這些疑問我們也盡量在網站上公開之外那我們最近也正在規劃因為畢竟中小企業不是我們現在碳費徵收的對象所以我們現在跟經濟部合作是如何去協助讓這些中小企業能夠熟悉這個碳盤查的工作所以我們會最近也在跟經濟部一起\n去增加這些相關的這個說明會還有課程的開設是所以現在目前中小企業不是你們徵收的這個對象你們是優先就是這個可能是大戶嘛是不是碳排的大戶那當然就是說這些中小企業他未來如果他的東西是銷歐盟的話其實他也會有這個壓力啊是他必須去買憑證對啊對啊所以經濟部在這一塊事實上我所了解是\n議員議員\n當然他要跟國際競爭當然他就是自己要怎麼去讓更精進可是中小企業他可能沒有辦法自己去做這樣的一個譬如說你現在請他做碳盤廠\n搞不好他自己也不清楚要怎麼盤查所以這個也是要我們環境部這邊去輔導那我是不是可以建議就是說如果有這個企業中小企業我現在講的不是大企業大企業我覺得那個是都沒有問題中小企業如果有這個需求的話是不是可以請這個環境部這邊尤其是在如果他們有主動跟你們要求的話是不是你們也可以到地方去說明\n未來如果開始徵收碳費之後,會不會影響到經濟上或國際競爭力?\n黃委員提得很好這個也是在某個程度我們一直在這一塊必須去找到一個這個合適點就是說除了朝向我們淨零排放的目標路徑圖來完成之外我們也一定要讓我們的產業有競爭力因為台灣畢竟是一個出口為導向\n所以也才因為就是這個兩方面的這個角度不一樣所以才會讓我們在這期間當然會面臨一些挑戰在時間上假如沒有辦法如我們當初理想的預期可能也要請這個大家來稍微這個諒解一下這樣子\n部長我想請教就是說我們現在開始當然這個碳費怎麼徵收你們還沒有確定那這個未來就是說如果7月繳交這個碳費那跟這個國際怎麼去對接或者是跟這個歐盟的這個西北是不是有這個抵檢這個我不清楚那會不會有這樣子的一個\n議員提供的答案\n所以變成說我們國家徵收的這個碳費到歐盟他也會認所以就不會有一個重複負擔的這種不會不會不會但是這兩個對象現在來講重疊不高啦是就是說基本以產品的這一塊那環境部基本上是針對排碳大戶這一塊裡面會有一點點重疊但是不會很多對\n我是希望就是說未來我們這個碳費其實你們到現在都還沒有訂出來那你預計是明年2025年要開始徵收嗎?那你這樣到底真的來得及嗎?現在已經三月底了我實在是真的也很擔心而且大家都很關心啦真的是很關心所以部長你再講一次好嗎?好,我講一次就是說今年開徵啦\n一月一號\n不是本來事實上是今年今年起徵明年繳費繳碳費的概念是跟所得稅的概念一樣就是說你去年所得收入多少你今年所以變成說2025年他繳的是2024年的這個碳費當初我們是期待是1、2月1號開始那現在也因為費率還沒有出來所以是有一些空間可以在\n主席\n我請部長就針對這個真的要趕快做一個決定啦因為真的大家都非常的關心啦那如果是 了解對當然有另外一派的說法是說不要太倉促啦那當然有一派的說法是希望就趕快確定所以就希望環境部這邊真的盡快把這個確定下來也是好的啦 好不好謝謝黃瀚啟喜好謝謝好謝謝接下來我們請鄭正前\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.177 --> 00:06.242\n謝謝主席。我們請薛部長。\n\n00:15.820 --> 00:28.868\n黃委員也特別提到彰化金鼎焚化爐的事件他們在前陣子開說明會我相信很多委員都關心我想請教說明會我是認為它是要過水因為當天\n\n00:36.492 --> 01:04.530\n當天剛剛黃委員講的很多黑衣人就佔據整個說明會的這個空間那當地的居民他是沒辦法進到這個空間裡面的那當然就是說在地的委員陳秀寶委員他也關心這一件他有在現場有表達那我想請教部長如果當地的居民沒辦法很充分的來表達他們的意見的話那這樣的環評的一個說明會這樣是符合程序嗎\n\n01:05.850 --> 01:29.706\n給黃委員報告根據環評法裡面的規定說明會它必須有一個程序其中之一就是要讓參議者登記去花園假如花園的時間不夠當然可以改成書面我們會根據看看金鼎他回覆給我們的所以金鼎現在有回覆你們了嗎?還沒有因為在那裡是3月31啦是\n\n01:32.548 --> 01:49.127\n對那是3031那我們會根據我們環評法法規來看他有沒有讓反對者或者說參議者當初登記要花園有沒有讓他表達意見的機會那如果沒有反對者沒有表達意見的話那我們就不接受他的這個說明會\n\n01:50.663 --> 02:03.541\n好那我相信很多人就是地方民眾真的非常的關心這一件因為彰化彰化的這個焚化爐的密度真的是太高了尤其是在這個彰化工業區這一邊\n\n02:06.244 --> 02:07.625\n中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度\n\n02:21.596 --> 02:27.240\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n02:49.434 --> 03:16.996\n只是過水所以我希望就是說環境部你們收到資料之後應該要好好去這個審查啦好謝謝黃文的提醒另外今天特別提這個就是列這個專題報告就是說我們很多的這個民眾尤其是這個中小企業啦他們對於未來要徵收這個碳費其實不傻傻啦這個部長你應該也知道\n\n03:22.942 --> 03:33.594\n檢探專線到底發揮多大的功能我不是那麼清楚不然為什麼在這個地方的一些中小企業他們也會擔心就是說\n\n03:34.315 --> 03:58.016\n一到底不知道要怎麼做?到底他未來的所有的設施設備要怎麼去做改善?所以我想請教部長針對你們的這個有關2025年要開始徵收這個碳費那一些這個尤其是企業界尤其是中小企業如果大企業應該就沒有問題那中小企業的話\n\n03:58.857 --> 04:21.760\n會有很多的疑慮尤其是他們如果他們的產品是銷歐美歐歐洲的話他們會有很多的疑慮到底我們國家會到底怎麼去收這個碳費那我是不是請部長我們這個減碳專線到底有沒有發揮它的功能這點我是不是請我們這個蔡市長來回答一下\n\n04:22.261 --> 04:24.123\n檢探專線每天都幾時通電話,民眾會進來詢問。當然我們同仁都是針對民眾的問題,他們關心的就是怎麼檢探,甚至他自己怎麼樣可以取得自願減量的額度。\n\n04:43.061 --> 04:51.423\n除了去整理了這些疑問我們也盡量在網站上公開之外那我們最近也正在規劃因為畢竟中小企業不是我們現在碳費徵收的對象所以我們現在跟經濟部合作是如何去協助讓這些中小企業能夠熟悉這個碳盤查的工作所以我們會最近也在跟經濟部一起\n\n05:04.767 --> 05:32.247\n去增加這些相關的這個說明會還有課程的開設是所以現在目前中小企業不是你們徵收的這個對象你們是優先就是這個可能是大戶嘛是不是碳排的大戶那當然就是說這些中小企業他未來如果他的東西是銷歐盟的話其實他也會有這個壓力啊是他必須去買憑證對啊對啊所以經濟部在這一塊事實上我所了解是\n\n05:52.622 --> 06:05.910\n當然他要跟國際競爭當然他就是自己要怎麼去讓更精進可是中小企業他可能沒有辦法自己去做這樣的一個譬如說你現在請他做碳盤廠\n\n06:07.051 --> 06:34.215\n搞不好他自己也不清楚要怎麼盤查所以這個也是要我們環境部這邊去輔導那我是不是可以建議就是說如果有這個企業中小企業我現在講的不是大企業大企業我覺得那個是都沒有問題中小企業如果有這個需求的話是不是可以請這個環境部這邊尤其是在如果他們有主動跟你們要求的話是不是你們也可以到地方去說明\n\n06:34.935 --> 06:37.398\n未來如果開始徵收碳費之後,會不會影響到經濟上或國際競爭力?\n\n06:53.003 --> 07:13.391\n黃委員提得很好這個也是在某個程度我們一直在這一塊必須去找到一個這個合適點就是說除了朝向我們淨零排放的目標路徑圖來完成之外我們也一定要讓我們的產業有競爭力因為台灣畢竟是一個出口為導向\n\n07:14.571 --> 07:34.413\n所以也才因為就是這個兩方面的這個角度不一樣所以才會讓我們在這期間當然會面臨一些挑戰在時間上假如沒有辦法如我們當初理想的預期可能也要請這個大家來稍微這個諒解一下這樣子\n\n07:35.214 --> 07:57.373\n部長我想請教就是說我們現在開始當然這個碳費怎麼徵收你們還沒有確定那這個未來就是說如果7月繳交這個碳費那跟這個國際怎麼去對接或者是跟這個歐盟的這個西北是不是有這個抵檢這個我不清楚那會不會有這樣子的一個\n\n07:59.155 --> 07:59.455\n議員提供的答案\n\n08:17.376 --> 08:38.626\n所以變成說我們國家徵收的這個碳費到歐盟他也會認所以就不會有一個重複負擔的這種不會不會不會但是這兩個對象現在來講重疊不高啦是就是說基本以產品的這一塊那環境部基本上是針對排碳大戶這一塊裡面會有一點點重疊但是不會很多對\n\n08:40.427 --> 09:05.419\n我是希望就是說未來我們這個碳費其實你們到現在都還沒有訂出來那你預計是明年2025年要開始徵收嗎?那你這樣到底真的來得及嗎?現在已經三月底了我實在是真的也很擔心而且大家都很關心啦真的是很關心所以部長你再講一次好嗎?好,我講一次就是說今年開徵啦\n\n09:08.340 --> 09:08.740\n一月一號\n\n09:30.063 --> 09:58.730\n不是本來事實上是今年今年起徵明年繳費繳碳費的概念是跟所得稅的概念一樣就是說你去年所得收入多少你今年所以變成說2025年他繳的是2024年的這個碳費當初我們是期待是1、2月1號開始那現在也因為費率還沒有出來所以是有一些空間可以在\n\n09:59.650 --> 09:59.770\n主席\n\n10:21.927 --> 10:45.694\n我請部長就針對這個真的要趕快做一個決定啦因為真的大家都非常的關心啦那如果是了解對當然有另外一派的說法是說不要太倉促啦那當然有一派的說法是希望就趕快確定所以就希望環境部這邊真的盡快把這個確定下來也是好的啦好不好謝謝黃瀚啟喜好謝謝好謝謝接下來我們請鄭正前\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.177,"end":6.242,"text":"謝謝主席。我們請薛部長。"},{"start":15.82,"end":28.868,"text":"黃委員也特別提到彰化金鼎焚化爐的事件他們在前陣子開說明會我相信很多委員都關心我想請教說明會我是認為它是要過水因為當天"},{"start":36.492,"end":64.53,"text":"當天剛剛黃委員講的很多黑衣人就佔據整個說明會的這個空間那當地的居民他是沒辦法進到這個空間裡面的那當然就是說在地的委員陳秀寶委員他也關心這一件他有在現場有表達那我想請教部長如果當地的居民沒辦法很充分的來表達他們的意見的話那這樣的環評的一個說明會這樣是符合程序嗎"},{"start":65.85,"end":89.706,"text":"給黃委員報告根據環評法裡面的規定說明會它必須有一個程序其中之一就是要讓參議者登記去花園假如花園的時間不夠當然可以改成書面我們會根據看看金鼎他回覆給我們的所以金鼎現在有回覆你們了嗎?還沒有因為在那裡是3月31啦是"},{"start":92.548,"end":109.127,"text":"對那是3031那我們會根據我們環評法法規來看他有沒有讓反對者或者說參議者當初登記要花園有沒有讓他表達意見的機會那如果沒有反對者沒有表達意見的話那我們就不接受他的這個說明會"},{"start":110.663,"end":123.541,"text":"好那我相信很多人就是地方民眾真的非常的關心這一件因為彰化彰化的這個焚化爐的密度真的是太高了尤其是在這個彰化工業區這一邊"},{"start":126.244,"end":127.625,"text":"中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度"},{"start":141.596,"end":147.24,"text":"含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":169.434,"end":196.996,"text":"只是過水所以我希望就是說環境部你們收到資料之後應該要好好去這個審查啦好謝謝黃文的提醒另外今天特別提這個就是列這個專題報告就是說我們很多的這個民眾尤其是這個中小企業啦他們對於未來要徵收這個碳費其實不傻傻啦這個部長你應該也知道"},{"start":202.942,"end":213.594,"text":"檢探專線到底發揮多大的功能我不是那麼清楚不然為什麼在這個地方的一些中小企業他們也會擔心就是說"},{"start":214.315,"end":238.016,"text":"一到底不知道要怎麼做?到底他未來的所有的設施設備要怎麼去做改善?所以我想請教部長針對你們的這個有關2025年要開始徵收這個碳費那一些這個尤其是企業界尤其是中小企業如果大企業應該就沒有問題那中小企業的話"},{"start":238.857,"end":261.76,"text":"會有很多的疑慮尤其是他們如果他們的產品是銷歐美歐歐洲的話他們會有很多的疑慮到底我們國家會到底怎麼去收這個碳費那我是不是請部長我們這個減碳專線到底有沒有發揮它的功能這點我是不是請我們這個蔡市長來回答一下"},{"start":262.261,"end":264.123,"text":"檢探專線每天都幾時通電話,民眾會進來詢問。當然我們同仁都是針對民眾的問題,他們關心的就是怎麼檢探,甚至他自己怎麼樣可以取得自願減量的額度。"},{"start":283.061,"end":291.423,"text":"除了去整理了這些疑問我們也盡量在網站上公開之外那我們最近也正在規劃因為畢竟中小企業不是我們現在碳費徵收的對象所以我們現在跟經濟部合作是如何去協助讓這些中小企業能夠熟悉這個碳盤查的工作所以我們會最近也在跟經濟部一起"},{"start":304.767,"end":332.247,"text":"去增加這些相關的這個說明會還有課程的開設是所以現在目前中小企業不是你們徵收的這個對象你們是優先就是這個可能是大戶嘛是不是碳排的大戶那當然就是說這些中小企業他未來如果他的東西是銷歐盟的話其實他也會有這個壓力啊是他必須去買憑證對啊對啊所以經濟部在這一塊事實上我所了解是"},{"start":332.927,"end":351.681,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":352.622,"end":365.91,"text":"當然他要跟國際競爭當然他就是自己要怎麼去讓更精進可是中小企業他可能沒有辦法自己去做這樣的一個譬如說你現在請他做碳盤廠"},{"start":367.051,"end":394.215,"text":"搞不好他自己也不清楚要怎麼盤查所以這個也是要我們環境部這邊去輔導那我是不是可以建議就是說如果有這個企業中小企業我現在講的不是大企業大企業我覺得那個是都沒有問題中小企業如果有這個需求的話是不是可以請這個環境部這邊尤其是在如果他們有主動跟你們要求的話是不是你們也可以到地方去說明"},{"start":394.935,"end":397.398,"text":"未來如果開始徵收碳費之後,會不會影響到經濟上或國際競爭力?"},{"start":413.003,"end":433.391,"text":"黃委員提得很好這個也是在某個程度我們一直在這一塊必須去找到一個這個合適點就是說除了朝向我們淨零排放的目標路徑圖來完成之外我們也一定要讓我們的產業有競爭力因為台灣畢竟是一個出口為導向"},{"start":434.571,"end":454.413,"text":"所以也才因為就是這個兩方面的這個角度不一樣所以才會讓我們在這期間當然會面臨一些挑戰在時間上假如沒有辦法如我們當初理想的預期可能也要請這個大家來稍微這個諒解一下這樣子"},{"start":455.214,"end":477.373,"text":"部長我想請教就是說我們現在開始當然這個碳費怎麼徵收你們還沒有確定那這個未來就是說如果7月繳交這個碳費那跟這個國際怎麼去對接或者是跟這個歐盟的這個西北是不是有這個抵檢這個我不清楚那會不會有這樣子的一個"},{"start":479.155,"end":479.455,"text":"議員提供的答案"},{"start":497.376,"end":518.626,"text":"所以變成說我們國家徵收的這個碳費到歐盟他也會認所以就不會有一個重複負擔的這種不會不會不會但是這兩個對象現在來講重疊不高啦是就是說基本以產品的這一塊那環境部基本上是針對排碳大戶這一塊裡面會有一點點重疊但是不會很多對"},{"start":520.427,"end":545.419,"text":"我是希望就是說未來我們這個碳費其實你們到現在都還沒有訂出來那你預計是明年2025年要開始徵收嗎?那你這樣到底真的來得及嗎?現在已經三月底了我實在是真的也很擔心而且大家都很關心啦真的是很關心所以部長你再講一次好嗎?好,我講一次就是說今年開徵啦"},{"start":548.34,"end":548.74,"text":"一月一號"},{"start":570.063,"end":598.73,"text":"不是本來事實上是今年今年起徵明年繳費繳碳費的概念是跟所得稅的概念一樣就是說你去年所得收入多少你今年所以變成說2025年他繳的是2024年的這個碳費當初我們是期待是1、2月1號開始那現在也因為費率還沒有出來所以是有一些空間可以在"},{"start":599.65,"end":599.77,"text":"主席"},{"start":621.927,"end":645.694,"text":"我請部長就針對這個真的要趕快做一個決定啦因為真的大家都非常的關心啦那如果是 了解對當然有另外一派的說法是說不要太倉促啦那當然有一派的說法是希望就趕快確定所以就希望環境部這邊真的盡快把這個確定下來也是好的啦 好不好謝謝黃瀚啟喜好謝謝好謝謝接下來我們請鄭正前"}]}}}}