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\"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 440.321, \"end\": 440.341, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 440.341, \"end\": 440.541, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 440.541, \"end\": 440.561, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"維\"}, {\"word\": \"恩\", \"start\": 440.561, \"end\": 440.581, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 446.036, \"end\": 446.159, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 446.159, \"end\": 446.179, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:18,709\n主席我想請薛部長請薛部長部長辛苦了還沒有吃午餐不會不會沒問題我盡快一點我想每一個委員包括本席都非常想要了解為了達到這個減碳目的目前全球實施的碳定價制度的國家中\n\n2\n00:00:19,309 --> 00:00:39,541\n依據世界銀行公佈的資料有37個採用ETS的制度,37個採用碳稅的制度。那台灣既不是ETS也不是碳稅,台灣是碳費制度,而且是獨佈全球的制度。請問環境部我們採用這個完全不同的制度的原因是為什麼?\n\n3\n00:00:40,821 --> 00:01:03,288\n我想台灣有我們特殊的條件因為剛剛講到這個張文提到前面的歐盟採用的ETS的制度人家從2005年就開始那台灣事實上去年8月7號碳權交易所才成立所以我們基本上沒有那個條件假如國外或者我們國內的廠商要買碳權並還沒有成熟\n\n4\n00:01:05,149 --> 00:01:22,078\n會不會是我們貪行的這個碳費制度會不會是有一點急救章為什麼會有會不會有點是太快然後反而便宜行事我現在本席擔心的是說假設我們實施了碳費我們實施了之後\n\n5\n00:01:23,278 --> 00:01:36,291\n採取完全不同的機制那我們的碳費制度如何取得國際的認同張委員我這個非常高興聽到你說我們腳步太快了因為多數的委員都抱怨說環境部我不是說我是說你們急救張急救張就是過去不準備過去都不準備\n\n6\n00:01:44,198 --> 00:01:56,288\n突然已經迫在眉梢了已經這個就是不見棺材不掉淚才開始想一套制度而且也沒有橫向溝通金管會然後財政部應該參加的也不參加是不是會不會有可能我們台灣的碳費制度從一開始方向就錯了我們台廠在國內繳交的碳費是不是可以得到歐盟C棒的減免有可能嗎\n\n7\n00:02:11,072 --> 00:02:14,515\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n8\n00:02:28,285 --> 00:02:40,719\n是,我下一個問題就是有沒有可能我們一意孤行的特別碳費制度得不到國際的認同反而導致企業被科徵第二次的碳稅是不是形同一頭牛剝兩層皮?\n\n9\n00:02:42,677 --> 00:03:00,766\n不會張委員跟你報告齁我們沒關係我聽你講不會我覺得可以那現在電費已經上漲那對各個企業都造成不小的壓力對民眾也造成很大的壓力那未來碳費實施後是不是有可能會下一步的導致我們物價產生波動這一點環境部有做過評估嗎\n\n10\n00:03:05,709 --> 00:03:27,085\n事實上也謝謝張委員你又講到另外一個跟其他委員事實上這個比較不一樣的看法就是說環境部對昨天費利審議委員會沒有做成費利的決定在某一個程度事實上也是呼應剛剛張委員的這些顧慮我覺得委員反而是很理智的來考量是啊\n\n11\n00:03:27,665 --> 00:03:56,044\n非常理智啊所以這一方面的評估如果相關報告也交付本席那我們目前是以什麼條件來當作首批要被徵收碳費的企業呢大概又有幾家我們大概是550這個家跟廠這個算起來大概550他們的排碳量是超過2.5萬噸內企業大概是什麼樣子的行業大概是400多家的企業是不是電力\n\n12\n00:03:57,505 --> 00:04:13,473\n港鐵、煉油、水泥、半導體、石化業都包含在內吧?對,它的排碳量基本上以製造業跟電力業為主,幾乎都是這一塊。這個裡面本席最最擔心的就是台電,請問部長知道台電佔全國的總排放量多少嗎?我知道說他們將近9000萬噸每年。本席跟你分享,\n\n13\n00:04:26,149 --> 00:04:28,591\n昨天你們開這個碳費審議委員會到底計劃每噸收多少錢?他們昨天還沒有進入到談實質到底\n\n14\n00:04:46,332 --> 00:04:55,579\n台電是目前全國碳排最大中大概是1.22億公噸那所以呢假設我之前看報導是說320塊一公噸的話台電每年就要額外支出390億\n\n15\n00:05:04,881 --> 00:05:31,690\n如果假設是環團建議的每度500元的話台電每年還要再額外支出600億那環境部會向台電收這筆錢嗎?給委員報告這裡面我們跟台電收取的碳費的部分假如他的發電是供應給一般民眾社會企業的話事實上會被扣除大概90%會被扣除\n\n16\n00:05:33,450 --> 00:05:49,921\n所以你會有一個特別的機制因為本席最最擔心的是這個額外課收的碳費最後還是要全民買單因為我們才剛剛漲了電價假設明年又實施碳費那是不是又要再漲一次呢否則台電怎麼去額外負擔這600億400至600億的這個費用\n\n17\n00:05:54,983 --> 00:06:20,334\n所以謝謝委員體諒就是說環境部昨天委員會他們沒有提出最後的決定在某個程度我覺得我們的碳費費利審議委員會也是考量到這一點那台電我相信台電會很謝謝張委員也特別為他們發聲沒有這一點我不是幫台電發聲我是幫人民發聲你以為台電他要額外花這600億他不用跟人民收錢喔\n\n18\n00:06:21,535 --> 00:06:21,938\n四、現在已經萬物齊掌了掛號費還無上限\n\n19\n00:06:26,733 --> 00:06:54,584\n對不對?所以我現在這樣問你,碳費先行這句口號是不是隱含先行之後後行要做什麼?有沒有可能未來會朝向碳稅發展?未來是朝碳稅的方向發展。所以碳費只是一個過渡期。我非常贊成,一定要課碳稅。然後另外呢,這個碳費呢,我另外比較擔心的是這個碳費之後,現在暫時既然是暫行,他怎麼用?他未來怎麼使用?\n\n20\n00:06:55,944 --> 00:07:20,581\n給張維恩報告事實上氣候法裡面都有明定他未來使用的用途包括公正轉型本席比較擔心的是他成為一個什麼溫室氣體管理基金他成立基金會不會變成環境部的小金庫不會不會放心好了這個會跨部會大家共同來那最後本席還是希望支持部長朝國際潮流碳稅轉型由國家統一收稅統一運用是謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝張維恩\n\n21\n00:07:26,036 --> 00:07:26,179\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2040\t18709\t主席我想請薛部長請薛部長部長辛苦了還沒有吃午餐不會不會沒問題我盡快一點我想每一個委員包括本席都非常想要了解為了達到這個減碳目的目前全球實施的碳定價制度的國家中\n19309\t39541\t依據世界銀行公佈的資料有37個採用ETS的制度,37個採用碳稅的制度。那台灣既不是ETS也不是碳稅,台灣是碳費制度,而且是獨佈全球的制度。請問環境部我們採用這個完全不同的制度的原因是為什麼?\n40821\t63288\t我想台灣有我們特殊的條件因為剛剛講到這個張文提到前面的歐盟採用的ETS的制度人家從2005年就開始那台灣事實上去年8月7號碳權交易所才成立所以我們基本上沒有那個條件假如國外或者我們國內的廠商要買碳權並還沒有成熟\n65149\t82078\t會不會是我們貪行的這個碳費制度會不會是有一點急救章為什麼會有會不會有點是太快然後反而便宜行事我現在本席擔心的是說假設我們實施了碳費我們實施了之後\n83278\t96291\t採取完全不同的機制那我們的碳費制度如何取得國際的認同張委員我這個非常高興聽到你說我們腳步太快了因為多數的委員都抱怨說環境部我不是說我是說你們急救張急救張就是過去不準備過去都不準備\n104198\t116288\t突然已經迫在眉梢了已經這個就是不見棺材不掉淚才開始想一套制度而且也沒有橫向溝通金管會然後財政部應該參加的也不參加是不是會不會有可能我們台灣的碳費制度從一開始方向就錯了我們台廠在國內繳交的碳費是不是可以得到歐盟C棒的減免有可能嗎\n131072\t134515\t含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n148285\t160719\t是,我下一個問題就是有沒有可能我們一意孤行的特別碳費制度得不到國際的認同反而導致企業被科徵第二次的碳稅是不是形同一頭牛剝兩層皮?\n162677\t180766\t不會 張委員跟你報告齁我們沒關係我聽你講不會我覺得可以那現在電費已經上漲那對各個企業都造成不小的壓力對民眾也造成很大的壓力那未來碳費實施後是不是有可能會下一步的導致我們物價產生波動這一點環境部有做過評估嗎\n185709\t207085\t事實上也謝謝張委員你又講到另外一個跟其他委員事實上這個比較不一樣的看法就是說環境部對昨天費利審議委員會沒有做成費利的決定在某一個程度事實上也是呼應剛剛張委員的這些顧慮我覺得委員反而是很理智的來考量是啊\n207665\t236044\t非常理智啊所以這一方面的評估如果相關報告也交付本席那我們目前是以什麼條件來當作首批要被徵收碳費的企業呢大概又有幾家我們大概是550這個家跟廠這個算起來大概550他們的排碳量是超過2.5萬噸內企業大概是什麼樣子的行業大概是400多家的企業是不是電力\n237505\t253473\t港鐵、煉油、水泥、半導體、石化業都包含在內吧?對,它的排碳量基本上以製造業跟電力業為主,幾乎都是這一塊。這個裡面本席最最擔心的就是台電,請問部長知道台電佔全國的總排放量多少嗎?我知道說他們將近9000萬噸每年。本席跟你分享,\n266149\t268591\t昨天你們開這個碳費審議委員會到底計劃每噸收多少錢?他們昨天還沒有進入到談實質到底\n286332\t295579\t台電是目前全國碳排最大中大概是1.22億公噸那所以呢假設我之前看報導是說320塊一公噸的話台電每年就要額外支出390億\n304881\t331690\t如果假設是環團建議的每度500元的話台電每年還要再額外支出600億那環境部會向台電收這筆錢嗎?給委員報告這裡面我們跟台電收取的碳費的部分假如他的發電是供應給一般民眾社會企業的話事實上會被扣除大概90%會被扣除\n333450\t349921\t所以你會有一個特別的機制因為本席最最擔心的是這個額外課收的碳費最後還是要全民買單因為我們才剛剛漲了電價假設明年又實施碳費那是不是又要再漲一次呢否則台電怎麼去額外負擔這600億400至600億的這個費用\n354983\t380334\t所以謝謝委員體諒就是說環境部昨天委員會他們沒有提出最後的決定在某個程度我覺得我們的碳費費利審議委員會也是考量到這一點那台電我相信台電會很謝謝張委員也特別為他們發聲沒有這一點我不是幫台電發聲我是幫人民發聲你以為台電他要額外花這600億他不用跟人民收錢喔\n381535\t381938\t四、現在已經萬物齊掌了掛號費還無上限\n386733\t414584\t對不對?所以我現在這樣問你,碳費先行這句口號是不是隱含先行之後後行要做什麼?有沒有可能未來會朝向碳稅發展?未來是朝碳稅的方向發展。所以碳費只是一個過渡期。我非常贊成,一定要課碳稅。然後另外呢,這個碳費呢,我另外比較擔心的是這個碳費之後,現在暫時既然是暫行,他怎麼用?他未來怎麼使用?\n415944\t440581\t給張維恩報告事實上氣候法裡面都有明定他未來使用的用途包括公正轉型本席比較擔心的是他成為一個什麼溫室氣體管理基金他成立基金會不會變成環境部的小金庫不會不會放心好了這個會跨部會大家共同來那最後本席還是希望支持部長朝國際潮流碳稅轉型由國家統一收稅統一運用是謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝張維恩\n446036\t446179\t主席\n","txt":"主席我想請薛部長請薛部長部長辛苦了還沒有吃午餐不會不會沒問題我盡快一點我想每一個委員包括本席都非常想要了解為了達到這個減碳目的目前全球實施的碳定價制度的國家中\n依據世界銀行公佈的資料有37個採用ETS的制度,37個採用碳稅的制度。那台灣既不是ETS也不是碳稅,台灣是碳費制度,而且是獨佈全球的制度。請問環境部我們採用這個完全不同的制度的原因是為什麼?\n我想台灣有我們特殊的條件因為剛剛講到這個張文提到前面的歐盟採用的ETS的制度人家從2005年就開始那台灣事實上去年8月7號碳權交易所才成立所以我們基本上沒有那個條件假如國外或者我們國內的廠商要買碳權並還沒有成熟\n會不會是我們貪行的這個碳費制度會不會是有一點急救章為什麼會有會不會有點是太快然後反而便宜行事我現在本席擔心的是說假設我們實施了碳費我們實施了之後\n採取完全不同的機制那我們的碳費制度如何取得國際的認同張委員我這個非常高興聽到你說我們腳步太快了因為多數的委員都抱怨說環境部我不是說我是說你們急救張急救張就是過去不準備過去都不準備\n突然已經迫在眉梢了已經這個就是不見棺材不掉淚才開始想一套制度而且也沒有橫向溝通金管會然後財政部應該參加的也不參加是不是會不會有可能我們台灣的碳費制度從一開始方向就錯了我們台廠在國內繳交的碳費是不是可以得到歐盟C棒的減免有可能嗎\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n是,我下一個問題就是有沒有可能我們一意孤行的特別碳費制度得不到國際的認同反而導致企業被科徵第二次的碳稅是不是形同一頭牛剝兩層皮?\n不會 張委員跟你報告齁我們沒關係我聽你講不會我覺得可以那現在電費已經上漲那對各個企業都造成不小的壓力對民眾也造成很大的壓力那未來碳費實施後是不是有可能會下一步的導致我們物價產生波動這一點環境部有做過評估嗎\n事實上也謝謝張委員你又講到另外一個跟其他委員事實上這個比較不一樣的看法就是說環境部對昨天費利審議委員會沒有做成費利的決定在某一個程度事實上也是呼應剛剛張委員的這些顧慮我覺得委員反而是很理智的來考量是啊\n非常理智啊所以這一方面的評估如果相關報告也交付本席那我們目前是以什麼條件來當作首批要被徵收碳費的企業呢大概又有幾家我們大概是550這個家跟廠這個算起來大概550他們的排碳量是超過2.5萬噸內企業大概是什麼樣子的行業大概是400多家的企業是不是電力\n港鐵、煉油、水泥、半導體、石化業都包含在內吧?對,它的排碳量基本上以製造業跟電力業為主,幾乎都是這一塊。這個裡面本席最最擔心的就是台電,請問部長知道台電佔全國的總排放量多少嗎?我知道說他們將近9000萬噸每年。本席跟你分享,\n昨天你們開這個碳費審議委員會到底計劃每噸收多少錢?他們昨天還沒有進入到談實質到底\n台電是目前全國碳排最大中大概是1.22億公噸那所以呢假設我之前看報導是說320塊一公噸的話台電每年就要額外支出390億\n如果假設是環團建議的每度500元的話台電每年還要再額外支出600億那環境部會向台電收這筆錢嗎?給委員報告這裡面我們跟台電收取的碳費的部分假如他的發電是供應給一般民眾社會企業的話事實上會被扣除大概90%會被扣除\n所以你會有一個特別的機制因為本席最最擔心的是這個額外課收的碳費最後還是要全民買單因為我們才剛剛漲了電價假設明年又實施碳費那是不是又要再漲一次呢否則台電怎麼去額外負擔這600億400至600億的這個費用\n所以謝謝委員體諒就是說環境部昨天委員會他們沒有提出最後的決定在某個程度我覺得我們的碳費費利審議委員會也是考量到這一點那台電我相信台電會很謝謝張委員也特別為他們發聲沒有這一點我不是幫台電發聲我是幫人民發聲你以為台電他要額外花這600億他不用跟人民收錢喔\n四、現在已經萬物齊掌了掛號費還無上限\n對不對?所以我現在這樣問你,碳費先行這句口號是不是隱含先行之後後行要做什麼?有沒有可能未來會朝向碳稅發展?未來是朝碳稅的方向發展。所以碳費只是一個過渡期。我非常贊成,一定要課碳稅。然後另外呢,這個碳費呢,我另外比較擔心的是這個碳費之後,現在暫時既然是暫行,他怎麼用?他未來怎麼使用?\n給張維恩報告事實上氣候法裡面都有明定他未來使用的用途包括公正轉型本席比較擔心的是他成為一個什麼溫室氣體管理基金他成立基金會不會變成環境部的小金庫不會不會放心好了這個會跨部會大家共同來那最後本席還是希望支持部長朝國際潮流碳稅轉型由國家統一收稅統一運用是謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝張維恩\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.040 --> 00:18.709\n主席我想請薛部長請薛部長部長辛苦了還沒有吃午餐不會不會沒問題我盡快一點我想每一個委員包括本席都非常想要了解為了達到這個減碳目的目前全球實施的碳定價制度的國家中\n\n00:19.309 --> 00:39.541\n依據世界銀行公佈的資料有37個採用ETS的制度,37個採用碳稅的制度。那台灣既不是ETS也不是碳稅,台灣是碳費制度,而且是獨佈全球的制度。請問環境部我們採用這個完全不同的制度的原因是為什麼?\n\n00:40.821 --> 01:03.288\n我想台灣有我們特殊的條件因為剛剛講到這個張文提到前面的歐盟採用的ETS的制度人家從2005年就開始那台灣事實上去年8月7號碳權交易所才成立所以我們基本上沒有那個條件假如國外或者我們國內的廠商要買碳權並還沒有成熟\n\n01:05.149 --> 01:22.078\n會不會是我們貪行的這個碳費制度會不會是有一點急救章為什麼會有會不會有點是太快然後反而便宜行事我現在本席擔心的是說假設我們實施了碳費我們實施了之後\n\n01:23.278 --> 01:36.291\n採取完全不同的機制那我們的碳費制度如何取得國際的認同張委員我這個非常高興聽到你說我們腳步太快了因為多數的委員都抱怨說環境部我不是說我是說你們急救張急救張就是過去不準備過去都不準備\n\n01:44.198 --> 01:56.288\n突然已經迫在眉梢了已經這個就是不見棺材不掉淚才開始想一套制度而且也沒有橫向溝通金管會然後財政部應該參加的也不參加是不是會不會有可能我們台灣的碳費制度從一開始方向就錯了我們台廠在國內繳交的碳費是不是可以得到歐盟C棒的減免有可能嗎\n\n02:11.072 --> 02:14.515\n含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論\n\n02:28.285 --> 02:40.719\n是,我下一個問題就是有沒有可能我們一意孤行的特別碳費制度得不到國際的認同反而導致企業被科徵第二次的碳稅是不是形同一頭牛剝兩層皮?\n\n02:42.677 --> 03:00.766\n不會張委員跟你報告齁我們沒關係我聽你講不會我覺得可以那現在電費已經上漲那對各個企業都造成不小的壓力對民眾也造成很大的壓力那未來碳費實施後是不是有可能會下一步的導致我們物價產生波動這一點環境部有做過評估嗎\n\n03:05.709 --> 03:27.085\n事實上也謝謝張委員你又講到另外一個跟其他委員事實上這個比較不一樣的看法就是說環境部對昨天費利審議委員會沒有做成費利的決定在某一個程度事實上也是呼應剛剛張委員的這些顧慮我覺得委員反而是很理智的來考量是啊\n\n03:27.665 --> 03:56.044\n非常理智啊所以這一方面的評估如果相關報告也交付本席那我們目前是以什麼條件來當作首批要被徵收碳費的企業呢大概又有幾家我們大概是550這個家跟廠這個算起來大概550他們的排碳量是超過2.5萬噸內企業大概是什麼樣子的行業大概是400多家的企業是不是電力\n\n03:57.505 --> 04:13.473\n港鐵、煉油、水泥、半導體、石化業都包含在內吧?對,它的排碳量基本上以製造業跟電力業為主,幾乎都是這一塊。這個裡面本席最最擔心的就是台電,請問部長知道台電佔全國的總排放量多少嗎?我知道說他們將近9000萬噸每年。本席跟你分享,\n\n04:26.149 --> 04:28.591\n昨天你們開這個碳費審議委員會到底計劃每噸收多少錢?他們昨天還沒有進入到談實質到底\n\n04:46.332 --> 04:55.579\n台電是目前全國碳排最大中大概是1.22億公噸那所以呢假設我之前看報導是說320塊一公噸的話台電每年就要額外支出390億\n\n05:04.881 --> 05:31.690\n如果假設是環團建議的每度500元的話台電每年還要再額外支出600億那環境部會向台電收這筆錢嗎?給委員報告這裡面我們跟台電收取的碳費的部分假如他的發電是供應給一般民眾社會企業的話事實上會被扣除大概90%會被扣除\n\n05:33.450 --> 05:49.921\n所以你會有一個特別的機制因為本席最最擔心的是這個額外課收的碳費最後還是要全民買單因為我們才剛剛漲了電價假設明年又實施碳費那是不是又要再漲一次呢否則台電怎麼去額外負擔這600億400至600億的這個費用\n\n05:54.983 --> 06:20.334\n所以謝謝委員體諒就是說環境部昨天委員會他們沒有提出最後的決定在某個程度我覺得我們的碳費費利審議委員會也是考量到這一點那台電我相信台電會很謝謝張委員也特別為他們發聲沒有這一點我不是幫台電發聲我是幫人民發聲你以為台電他要額外花這600億他不用跟人民收錢喔\n\n06:21.535 --> 06:21.938\n四、現在已經萬物齊掌了掛號費還無上限\n\n06:26.733 --> 06:54.584\n對不對?所以我現在這樣問你,碳費先行這句口號是不是隱含先行之後後行要做什麼?有沒有可能未來會朝向碳稅發展?未來是朝碳稅的方向發展。所以碳費只是一個過渡期。我非常贊成,一定要課碳稅。然後另外呢,這個碳費呢,我另外比較擔心的是這個碳費之後,現在暫時既然是暫行,他怎麼用?他未來怎麼使用?\n\n06:55.944 --> 07:20.581\n給張維恩報告事實上氣候法裡面都有明定他未來使用的用途包括公正轉型本席比較擔心的是他成為一個什麼溫室氣體管理基金他成立基金會不會變成環境部的小金庫不會不會放心好了這個會跨部會大家共同來那最後本席還是希望支持部長朝國際潮流碳稅轉型由國家統一收稅統一運用是謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝張維恩\n\n07:26.036 --> 07:26.179\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.04,"end":18.709,"text":"主席我想請薛部長請薛部長部長辛苦了還沒有吃午餐不會不會沒問題我盡快一點我想每一個委員包括本席都非常想要了解為了達到這個減碳目的目前全球實施的碳定價制度的國家中"},{"start":19.309,"end":39.541,"text":"依據世界銀行公佈的資料有37個採用ETS的制度,37個採用碳稅的制度。那台灣既不是ETS也不是碳稅,台灣是碳費制度,而且是獨佈全球的制度。請問環境部我們採用這個完全不同的制度的原因是為什麼?"},{"start":40.821,"end":63.288,"text":"我想台灣有我們特殊的條件因為剛剛講到這個張文提到前面的歐盟採用的ETS的制度人家從2005年就開始那台灣事實上去年8月7號碳權交易所才成立所以我們基本上沒有那個條件假如國外或者我們國內的廠商要買碳權並還沒有成熟"},{"start":65.149,"end":82.078,"text":"會不會是我們貪行的這個碳費制度會不會是有一點急救章為什麼會有會不會有點是太快然後反而便宜行事我現在本席擔心的是說假設我們實施了碳費我們實施了之後"},{"start":83.278,"end":96.291,"text":"採取完全不同的機制那我們的碳費制度如何取得國際的認同張委員我這個非常高興聽到你說我們腳步太快了因為多數的委員都抱怨說環境部我不是說我是說你們急救張急救張就是過去不準備過去都不準備"},{"start":104.198,"end":116.288,"text":"突然已經迫在眉梢了已經這個就是不見棺材不掉淚才開始想一套制度而且也沒有橫向溝通金管會然後財政部應該參加的也不參加是不是會不會有可能我們台灣的碳費制度從一開始方向就錯了我們台廠在國內繳交的碳費是不是可以得到歐盟C棒的減免有可能嗎"},{"start":131.072,"end":134.515,"text":"含報告事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論事項45案及討論"},{"start":148.285,"end":160.719,"text":"是,我下一個問題就是有沒有可能我們一意孤行的特別碳費制度得不到國際的認同反而導致企業被科徵第二次的碳稅是不是形同一頭牛剝兩層皮?"},{"start":162.677,"end":180.766,"text":"不會 張委員跟你報告齁我們沒關係我聽你講不會我覺得可以那現在電費已經上漲那對各個企業都造成不小的壓力對民眾也造成很大的壓力那未來碳費實施後是不是有可能會下一步的導致我們物價產生波動這一點環境部有做過評估嗎"},{"start":185.709,"end":207.085,"text":"事實上也謝謝張委員你又講到另外一個跟其他委員事實上這個比較不一樣的看法就是說環境部對昨天費利審議委員會沒有做成費利的決定在某一個程度事實上也是呼應剛剛張委員的這些顧慮我覺得委員反而是很理智的來考量是啊"},{"start":207.665,"end":236.044,"text":"非常理智啊所以這一方面的評估如果相關報告也交付本席那我們目前是以什麼條件來當作首批要被徵收碳費的企業呢大概又有幾家我們大概是550這個家跟廠這個算起來大概550他們的排碳量是超過2.5萬噸內企業大概是什麼樣子的行業大概是400多家的企業是不是電力"},{"start":237.505,"end":253.473,"text":"港鐵、煉油、水泥、半導體、石化業都包含在內吧?對,它的排碳量基本上以製造業跟電力業為主,幾乎都是這一塊。這個裡面本席最最擔心的就是台電,請問部長知道台電佔全國的總排放量多少嗎?我知道說他們將近9000萬噸每年。本席跟你分享,"},{"start":266.149,"end":268.591,"text":"昨天你們開這個碳費審議委員會到底計劃每噸收多少錢?他們昨天還沒有進入到談實質到底"},{"start":286.332,"end":295.579,"text":"台電是目前全國碳排最大中大概是1.22億公噸那所以呢假設我之前看報導是說320塊一公噸的話台電每年就要額外支出390億"},{"start":304.881,"end":331.69,"text":"如果假設是環團建議的每度500元的話台電每年還要再額外支出600億那環境部會向台電收這筆錢嗎?給委員報告這裡面我們跟台電收取的碳費的部分假如他的發電是供應給一般民眾社會企業的話事實上會被扣除大概90%會被扣除"},{"start":333.45,"end":349.921,"text":"所以你會有一個特別的機制因為本席最最擔心的是這個額外課收的碳費最後還是要全民買單因為我們才剛剛漲了電價假設明年又實施碳費那是不是又要再漲一次呢否則台電怎麼去額外負擔這600億400至600億的這個費用"},{"start":354.983,"end":380.334,"text":"所以謝謝委員體諒就是說環境部昨天委員會他們沒有提出最後的決定在某個程度我覺得我們的碳費費利審議委員會也是考量到這一點那台電我相信台電會很謝謝張委員也特別為他們發聲沒有這一點我不是幫台電發聲我是幫人民發聲你以為台電他要額外花這600億他不用跟人民收錢喔"},{"start":381.535,"end":381.938,"text":"四、現在已經萬物齊掌了掛號費還無上限"},{"start":386.733,"end":414.584,"text":"對不對?所以我現在這樣問你,碳費先行這句口號是不是隱含先行之後後行要做什麼?有沒有可能未來會朝向碳稅發展?未來是朝碳稅的方向發展。所以碳費只是一個過渡期。我非常贊成,一定要課碳稅。然後另外呢,這個碳費呢,我另外比較擔心的是這個碳費之後,現在暫時既然是暫行,他怎麼用?他未來怎麼使用?"},{"start":415.944,"end":440.581,"text":"給張維恩報告事實上氣候法裡面都有明定他未來使用的用途包括公正轉型本席比較擔心的是他成為一個什麼溫室氣體管理基金他成立基金會不會變成環境部的小金庫不會不會放心好了這個會跨部會大家共同來那最後本席還是希望支持部長朝國際潮流碳稅轉型由國家統一收稅統一運用是謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝張維恩"},{"start":446.036,"end":446.179,"text":"主席"}]}}}}