{"id":150550,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150550","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5d3c9fdb150f1e9ece53fb40122520aebf8ba9b0039caa7a66c52fa203661293f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"13:43:52 - 13:54:12","影片長度":"00:10:20","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查「行人交通安全設施條例草案」(一)行政院函請審議「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案。(二)委員黃捷等16人擬具「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案。【上開議案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,23],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,23-1"},"date":"2024-03-27","duration":620,"end_time":"2024-03-27T13:54:12+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-27T13:43:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":930,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（13時44分）主席的眼鏡是被黃捷委員拿到哪裡去了，是不是？","請內政部跟交通部。"],["主席：請內政部花次長以及交通部次長。"],["花次長敬群：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：次長好。有幾個事情，我們今天討論到行人的問題，剛剛大家講到行人地獄或行人交通安全的問題，我想不管是次長或者是剛才國土署吳署長應該都有印象，我們其實在去年大概八、九月的時候，我們跟很多相關的路權團體，其實進行了幾次我覺得非常非常深度而且非常正面的交流。在那裡面，我不知道次長還記不記得，其實就有團體反映，如果你是一個障礙者，基本上，你在人行道過程裡面，你會遇到大量因為機車違停而讓你寸步難行的狀況，這是一件事情，但另外一件事情是大家常常在各地方遇到打電話報警或各個投訴，無人聞問，到處踢來踢去的狀況。次長還記不記得當時團體反映這個情境，記得嗎？"],["花次長敬群：我想這個部分，其實我們聽了之後，我們自己也覺得這個議題的處理，確實我們需要好好的來思考。"],["洪委員申翰：我記得那時候跟我們說，他可能甚至打電話給警方檢舉了一百次，都沒有任何人來過，幫他把現場可能是機車違停的狀況去移除，都沒有！這當然是地方執法上面，我們看到的真實狀況。好，回到這一次修法，在這一次的修法裡面，我們看到院版第八條裡面，有提到固定設施有一些相關的要求跟處理，要求地方政府去處理固定設施，一個處理相關的一些程序跟應然該做的作為，但就像我們剛才說違停的機車，它不是固定設施，它是非固定的、可移動式的障礙物設施。次長，針對這個部分，我們怎麼處理？"],["花次長敬群：當然這個部分是比較屬於執法的面向，我們今天有四個，處罰條例當然還是可以處理，但是……"],["洪委員申翰：次長，現在這些條例，包括你們會回：這個廢清法有啊！道交條例有啊！市區道路條例有啊！是啊！現在就有啊！這些條例現在也有啊！"],["花次長敬群：瞭解。"],["洪委員申翰：不是不存在啊，可是這個問題一樣，好多縣市都還是這個狀況啊！"],["花次長敬群：我跟委員報告，在執法實務上面，我覺得這也需要看地方政府的警力和問題的輕重緩急，確實我們還是要有一個比較全面性的檢討和改善的機制，還是要出來，但是實質上，您提的那個問題、那個狀況，當然每個縣市有它可能怠惰，也有可能它真的量能不足的一個綜合的狀況……"],["洪委員申翰：次長，我剛剛在講的問題，其實重點是他沒有辦法被課責，所以他到處轉來轉去，一下是去找警方、一下找派出所、一下找交通局、一下找工務局，被到處轉來轉去，為什麼會被轉來轉去？原因是因為沒有明確可課責的對象，如果有，我們就找那個單位嘛！"],["花次長敬群：是。"],["洪委員申翰：今天在我們要修的行人交通安全設施條例的條文裡面，我們自己增加了一個部分是非固定設施的可移動障礙物，我們要求地方政府要指定一個專責處理的單位，地方政府就指定一個誰來處理類似的事情，只要有這個問題的，他就要去處理，如果沒處理好，大家就找他，不要推來推去、轉來轉去。"],["花次長敬群：我瞭解。"],["洪委員申翰：次長，你覺得這個作法是否OK？"],["花次長敬群：我跟委員報告，實質上，我們在訂這個法的時候，我們本來也有一個期待是地方對於行人安全的所有事情，我們也期待他能夠找出一個專責的、負責的單位，到底是建設局、交通局還是誰……"],["洪委員申翰：次長，所以現在我們在條文裡面就寫清楚，地方政府應指定一個專責單位，你就講清楚是誰，在你這個縣市裡面，這個問題要找誰，我們就找他，請他來處理。"],["花次長敬群：委員，這個事情可不可以讓我們研議，因為這背後確實也涉及到地方自治的彈性跟權限的內涵……"],["洪委員申翰：是，可是現在我們訂這個條例的原因就是我們不能再把所有事情推給地方自治了嘛！過去就是因為這些事情，我們都說是地方自治，所以現在大家才看到這個亂象。這次終於中央有一個態度，我們訂了一個條例，有一個母法來要求地方政府該怎麼做這些工作，不是只是在過去那些要點裡面，這就是我們不能再推給只是單純的地方自治了嘛！今天我們不是一定要要求你是誰，地方政府可以自己指定，地方政府說好就好，大家就找他，我覺得是這樣，我們會把這個條文放在裡面，當然我們下午修法的時候，我們來進一步的討論，或者是這個條文可以怎麼處理。"],["花次長敬群：待會我們再來談。"],["洪委員申翰：但重要的事情是，我們希望類似的狀況跟情境，在地方政府是有人可以課責的，而不是那些法都有，可是最後一樣是推來推去，這是第一點。"],["花次長敬群：是。"],["洪委員申翰：我們下午來討論。第二點是，最近大家都在討論檢舉的問題，或者請教旁邊的陳次長，我們之前為什麼會討論要開放更多項目的檢舉，你們還記不記得為什麼？這問題不難啊！那時候就是覺得警力不足，因為警力不足，執法的量能不足，所以當初才覺得我們是不是開放更多的項目讓大家檢舉，變成有點像是民眾自救，或者民眾也可以參與來糾正相關交通上面秩序的問題，就是這個原因，對不對？我現在問題來了，假如我們現在說微罪要限縮檢舉，現在的方案是這樣嘛！"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["洪委員申翰：我們的警力有比過去足嗎？我們之前之所以有處理這件事情的工具，是因為警力不足，對不對？我們很清楚。現在我們說微罪限縮檢舉的時候，我覺得任何管理的方法都可以討論，但我們必須針對問題，所以當初警力不足的這件事情，現在有沒有更進一步的克服了？"],["花次長敬群：有關警力的部分，當然地方都會提報他警力的缺口，我們會有年度計畫逐年補強他們警力的編制……"],["洪委員申翰：次長，我這邊想把這個問題提出來的意思是，我們當初的目的很清楚，我們是用A方法來處理這個問題，我們現在說A方法不好，我要換，不是不能討論，但我原本的問題還在啊！請問我從A方法要換成什麼B方法來處理當初認為警力跟執法量能不足的問題？這件事情我認為不管是內政部或交通部也要有個交代跟方案，不然我們等於放著原本大家憂慮的執法量能不足的問題，一樣擺在那個地方，一樣還是問題存在啊！我們不能只說A方法我覺得不夠好啊！面對當時執法量能不足的問題，現在有沒有更進一步的方案？交通部或者是內政部都可以回答。"],["花次長敬群：跟委員報告，當然這都要持續滾動檢討，我覺得其實這背後是一個兩難的困境，就是我們知道A方法，當然我們加強了人民的檢舉，但是它衍生了其他的副作用，所以這背後是一個平衡的過程。"],["洪委員申翰：所以我這邊其實很理性在討論這個問題，今天大家覺得A方法不夠好、有副作用、要修正，在討論上，我覺得可以討論，可是你要拿出替代的方法來處理我們原本大家覺得那個痛點的問題嘛！執法量能不足的問題。所以今天我覺得如果下禮拜、下下禮拜，我們要來討論微罪限縮檢舉的事情時，我自己認為內政部跟交通部恐怕拿出你怎麼克服原本警力不足的這個問題，而接下來的方案是什麼。我覺得恐怕大家要給個方案來討論，我們才能夠討論，把這件事情在一個理性的層次上面找到最佳方案，而不是我一定要A、一定要B、一定要C，沒有這個，但是至少我們要能夠解決問題，否則問題還是存在啊！次長，可以嗎？"],["花次長敬群：我們會持續再來想想看怎麼樣來強化……"],["洪委員申翰：接下來可能在交通委員會或者內政委會會處理道交條例，我認為到時候交通部跟內政部就要拿出一個方案來處理當初大家覺得警力不足的問題，並且你們打算該怎麼辦。比方要不要多聘交通相關的管理員，中央願不願意多出一些錢？我覺得這可以討論，如果中央願意多出一些錢，讓地方政府多聘一些相關做管理跟執法的人員，這也是一種方法，可是不能擺著這個問題不處理啊！我覺得類似的方案，我希望到時候我們討論道交條例的時候，內政部跟交通部應該共同提出一個具體的作法，我覺得才能給大家一個交代，才能說：我覺得A方案真的不夠好、純粹開放檢舉真的有一些副作用。我覺得這才能進入到理性的討論跟理性的政策規劃，可以嗎？"],["花次長敬群：謝謝委員，我們會積極來思考及評估怎麼做。"],["洪委員申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪申翰委員的質詢，下一位請李柏毅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,23-1","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃捷","黃建賓","蘇巧慧","李昆澤","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","許宇甄","王美惠","黃健豪","林俊憲","蔡其昌","徐富癸","何欣純","林沛祥","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","廖先翔","吳思瑤","黃珊珊","游顥","洪申翰","李柏毅","陳冠廷","吳沛憶","陳素月","魯明哲","黃仁","劉建國","林國成","張智倫","丁學忠","林月琴","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查「行人交通安全設施條例草案」(一)行政院函請審議「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案；\n(二)委員黃捷等16人擬具「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案","agenda_id":"1132101_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150550","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150550","tool":"pyannote","id":"150550-pyannote"},"job_id":"C5VcIAV6cPzk4HLa","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"text\": \"我們過去就是因為這些事情我們都說是地方自治所以現在大家才看到這個亂象這一次終於中央有一個態度我們訂了一個法這個條例有一個母法來去要求地方政府你該怎麼做這些工作嘛不是只是在過去那些要點裡面嘛這就是我們不能再推給只是單純的地方自治了嘛所以我們不是說今天我一定要要求你是誰你地方政府自己指定你自己指定你說好就好那大家就找他\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 309.654, \"end\": 310.114, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 310.114, \"end\": 310.294, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 310.294, \"end\": 310.454, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 310.454, \"end\": 310.574, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 310.574, \"end\": 310.814, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 310.814, \"end\": 311.014, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 311.014, \"end\": 311.154, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 311.154, \"end\": 311.254, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 311.254, \"end\": 311.454, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 311.454, 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\"那請問我從A方法要換成什麼B方法來去處理當初認為警力跟執法量能不足的問題這件事情我認為不管是內政部或交通部也要有個交代跟方案啊不然我們等於放著原本大家憂慮的執法量能不足的問題一樣擺在那個地方啊它一樣還是問題存在啊我們不能只說A方法我覺得不夠好啊那我們面對當時執法量能不足的問題現在有沒有更進一步的方案\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 462.245, \"end\": 462.965, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 462.965, \"end\": 463.505, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 463.505, \"end\": 463.625, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 463.625, \"end\": 463.805, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 463.805, \"end\": 464.025, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 464.025, \"end\": 464.185, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 464.185, \"end\": 464.345, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 464.345, \"end\": 464.606, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"B\", \"start\": 464.606, \"end\": 464.766, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 464.766, \"end\": 465.006, 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00:00:59,420\n那我想不管是次長或者是剛才吳署長國土署吳署長應該都有印象我們其實在去年的時候大概八九月的時候那時候我們跟很多相關的路權團體其實進行了幾次我覺得非常非常深度而且非常正面大家的交流那在那裡面我不知道次長還記不記得其實就有團體反映喔如果你是一個障礙者\n\n3\n00:01:00,578 --> 00:01:23,672\n基本上你在這個人行道的過程裡面其實你會遇到大量的這個因為機車危停而讓你寸步難行的狀況這是一件事情但另外一件事情是大家常常在各地方遇到打電話報警或各個投訴無人聞問到處踢來踢去的狀況市長還記不記得當時團體反映這個這個情境記得嗎\n\n4\n00:01:28,001 --> 00:01:54,297\n我想這個部分我們當然其實我們聽了之後我們自己也覺得這個議題的處理確實我們需要好好的來思考我記得那時候跟我說他可能甚至打電話給警方檢舉了100次都沒有任何人來過幫他把現場的這個這個可能是機車危停的狀況去移除都沒有\n\n5\n00:01:55,970 --> 00:02:02,002\n那這當然是地方上面執法上面我們看到的真實的狀況好那回到這一次修法齁\n\n6\n00:02:04,391 --> 00:02:31,271\n市長這次的修法裡面當然我們看到第8條原版第8條裡面它有講到這個固定設施那有一些相關的要求跟處理要求地方政府去處理固定設施一個處理相關的一些程序跟應然該做的作為但就像我們剛才說維庭的機車它不是固定設施啊它是非固定的可移動式的障礙物的設施啊那我們針對這個部分\n\n7\n00:02:32,782 --> 00:03:00,391\n市長我們怎麼處理當然這個部分是比較屬於執法的那個面向就是我們今天這個有四個那處罰條例當然還是可以處理但是當然市長現在這些條例跟包括你們會回這個廢清法有啊道交條例有啊市區道路條例有啊是啊現在就有啊這些條例現在也有啊不是不存在啊可是一樣這個問題一樣好多縣市都還是這個狀況啊\n\n8\n00:03:02,142 --> 00:03:27,058\n我跟委員報告確實我想在執法實務上面確實我覺得這也需要看從地方政府的警力和問題的輕重緩急確實我們還是要有一個比較全面性的檢討和改善的機制還是要出來但是實質上您提的那個問題那個狀況當然每個縣市或有他可能怠惰\n\n9\n00:03:51,858 --> 00:04:13,688\n市長今天在我們要修這個行人安全設施條例的條文裡面我們自己增加了一個部分是非固定設施的可移動障礙物我們要求地方政府要指定一個專責處理的單位地方政府就指定一個誰來處理類似的事情只要有這個問題的他就要去處理\n\n10\n00:04:14,741 --> 00:04:36,304\n那如果沒處理好那大家就找他不要推來推去轉來轉去市長你覺得這個做法OK不OK我跟你們報告實質上我們在訂這個法的時候我們也本來有一個期待是地方對於這個行人安全的這個所有的事情是應該我們也期待他能夠找出一個\n\n11\n00:04:37,458 --> 00:04:50,205\n議員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案：立法院第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第\n\n12\n00:04:55,049 --> 00:05:09,054\n我們就找他請他來處理我們這個事情可不可以讓我們的因為這背後確實也涉及到地方自治的那個彈性跟權限的是可是我們現在我們訂這個條例的原因就是我們不能再把所有事情推給地方自治了嘛\n\n13\n00:05:09,654 --> 00:05:38,561\n我們過去就是因為這些事情我們都說是地方自治所以現在大家才看到這個亂象這一次終於中央有一個態度我們訂了一個法這個條例有一個母法來去要求地方政府你該怎麼做這些工作嘛不是只是在過去那些要點裡面嘛這就是我們不能再推給只是單純的地方自治了嘛所以我們不是說今天我一定要要求你是誰你地方政府自己指定你自己指定你說好就好那大家就找他\n\n14\n00:05:39,841 --> 00:05:40,161\n委員黃捷等16人擬具\n\n15\n00:06:06,460 --> 00:06:10,966\n我們之前為什麼會討論說要開放更多項目的檢舉,你們還記不記得為什麼?這問題不難啊。那時候就是覺得警力不足啊。\n\n16\n00:06:23,513 --> 00:06:51,445\n因為警力不足、執法人量能不足所以當初才覺得說我們是不是開放更多的項目變成讓大家檢舉變得有點像是民眾自救來或者民眾也可以參與來糾正相關的這個交通上面的秩序的問題就是這個原因嘛對不對那我現在問題啦好那現在假如我們現在說違罪要限縮檢舉我們現在的方案是這樣嘛對不對那我們的警力有比過去足嗎\n\n17\n00:06:54,842 --> 00:07:15,203\n我們之前之所以有處理這件事情的工具的時候是因為警力不足嘛對不對我們很清楚那現在我們說違罪、限縮檢舉的時候我覺得任何管理的方法都可以討論但我們必須針對問題嘛所以當初警力不足的這件事情現在有沒有更進一步的克服了嘛\n\n18\n00:07:17,839 --> 00:07:40,785\n警力當然地方都會提報他警力的缺口我們會有年度計畫逐年的在補強他們的警力的這個編制市長我這邊想把這個問題提出來的意思是說今天假如我們當初的目的很清楚我們是用A方法來處理這個問題我們現在說A方法不好我要換不是不能討論但我原本的問題還在啊\n\n19\n00:07:42,245 --> 00:08:10,291\n那請問我從A方法要換成什麼B方法來去處理當初認為警力跟執法量能不足的問題這件事情我認為不管是內政部或交通部也要有個交代跟方案啊不然我們等於放著原本大家憂慮的執法量能不足的問題一樣擺在那個地方啊它一樣還是問題存在啊我們不能只說A方法我覺得不夠好啊那我們面對當時執法量能不足的問題現在有沒有更進一步的方案\n\n20\n00:08:11,772 --> 00:08:12,913\n所以我這邊其實很理性在討論這個問題是\n\n21\n00:08:35,094 --> 00:09:00,598\n今天大家覺得A方法不夠好有副作用要修正我覺得在討論上我覺得可以討論可是你要拿出替代的方法來去處理我們原本大家覺得那個痛點的問題執法量能不足所以今天我覺得如果下禮拜下下禮拜我們要來討論這個違罪限縮檢舉的事情的時候我自己認為內政部恐怕跟交通部恐怕要拿出那你怎麼克服原本說警力不足這個問題那你接下來的方案是什麼\n\n22\n00:09:24,152 --> 00:09:41,219\n接下來可能在交通委員會或內政委員會來修要處理道交條例我認為到時候交通部跟內政部就要拿出一個方案來去處理當初大家覺得警力不足那你們打算該怎麼辦比方說要不要多聘交通的相關的管理員那中央願不願意多出一些錢\n\n23\n00:09:42,793 --> 00:09:51,458\n我覺得這可以討論喔如果中央願意多出一些錢讓地方政府多拼一些來相關做管理跟執法的人員這也是一種方法可是不能擺著這個問題不處理啊\n\n24\n00:09:54,107 --> 00:09:54,267\n議員黃聖翰委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3488\t32075\t主席的眼鏡是被黃捷委員拿到哪裡去了那個請內政部跟交通部請內政部我們的副處長以及我們交通部我們的處長市長有幾個事情我們今天討論到這個行人剛剛大家講到行人地域或行人交通安全的問題\n33567\t59420\t那我想不管是次長或者是剛才吳署長國土署吳署長應該都有印象我們其實在去年的時候大概八九月的時候那時候我們跟很多相關的路權團體其實進行了幾次我覺得非常非常深度而且非常正面大家的交流那在那裡面我不知道次長還記不記得其實就有團體反映喔如果你是一個障礙者\n60578\t83672\t基本上你在這個人行道的過程裡面其實你會遇到大量的這個因為機車危停而讓你寸步難行的狀況這是一件事情但另外一件事情是大家常常在各地方遇到打電話報警或各個投訴無人聞問到處踢來踢去的狀況市長還記不記得當時團體反映這個這個情境記得嗎\n88001\t114297\t我想這個部分我們當然其實我們聽了之後我們自己也覺得這個議題的處理確實我們需要好好的來思考我記得那時候跟我說他可能甚至打電話給警方檢舉了100次都沒有任何人來過幫他把現場的這個這個可能是機車危停的狀況去移除都沒有\n115970\t122002\t那這當然是地方上面執法上面我們看到的真實的狀況好那回到這一次修法齁\n124391\t151271\t市長 這次的修法裡面當然我們看到第8條 原版第8條裡面它有講到這個固定設施那有一些相關的要求跟處理要求地方政府去處理固定設施一個處理相關的一些程序跟應然該做的作為但就像我們剛才說維庭的機車它不是固定設施啊它是非固定的可移動式的障礙物的設施啊那我們針對這個部分\n152782\t180391\t市長我們怎麼處理當然這個部分是比較屬於執法的那個面向就是我們今天這個有四個那處罰條例當然還是可以處理但是當然市長現在這些條例跟包括你們會回這個廢清法有啊道交條例有啊市區道路條例有啊是啊現在就有啊這些條例現在也有啊不是不存在啊可是一樣這個問題一樣好多縣市都還是這個狀況啊\n182142\t207058\t我跟委員報告確實我想在執法實務上面確實我覺得這也需要看從地方政府的警力和問題的輕重緩急確實我們還是要有一個比較全面性的檢討和改善的機制還是要出來但是實質上您提的那個問題那個狀況當然每個縣市或有他可能怠惰\n207398\t231254\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n231858\t253688\t市長今天在我們要修這個行人安全設施條例的條文裡面我們自己增加了一個部分是非固定設施的可移動障礙物我們要求地方政府要指定一個專責處理的單位地方政府就指定一個誰來處理類似的事情只要有這個問題的他就要去處理\n254741\t276304\t那如果沒處理好 那大家就找他 不要推來推去轉來轉去 市長你覺得這個做法OK不OK我跟你們報告實質上我們在訂這個法的時候 我們也本來有一個期待是地方對於這個行人安全的這個所有的事情 是應該我們也期待他能夠找出一個\n277458\t290205\t議員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案：立法院第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第\n295049\t309054\t我們就找他 請他來處理我們這個事情可不可以讓我們的因為這背後確實也涉及到地方自治的那個彈性跟權限的是 可是我們現在我們訂這個條例的原因就是我們不能再把所有事情推給地方自治了嘛\n309654\t338561\t我們過去就是因為這些事情我們都說是地方自治所以現在大家才看到這個亂象這一次終於中央有一個態度我們訂了一個法這個條例有一個母法來去要求地方政府你該怎麼做這些工作嘛不是只是在過去那些要點裡面嘛這就是我們不能再推給只是單純的地方自治了嘛所以我們不是說今天我一定要要求你是誰你地方政府自己指定你自己指定你說好就好那大家就找他\n339841\t340161\t委員黃捷等16人擬具\n366460\t370966\t我們之前為什麼會討論說要開放更多項目的檢舉,你們還記不記得為什麼?這問題不難啊。那時候就是覺得警力不足啊。\n383513\t411445\t因為警力不足、執法人量能不足所以當初才覺得說我們是不是開放更多的項目變成讓大家檢舉變得有點像是民眾自救來或者民眾也可以參與來糾正相關的這個交通上面的秩序的問題就是這個原因嘛 對不對那我現在問題啦好那現在假如我們現在說違罪要限縮檢舉我們現在的方案是這樣嘛 對不對那我們的警力有比過去足嗎\n414842\t435203\t我們之前之所以有處理這件事情的工具的時候是因為警力不足嘛 對不對我們很清楚那現在我們說違罪、限縮檢舉的時候我覺得任何管理的方法都可以討論但我們必須針對問題嘛所以當初警力不足的這件事情現在有沒有更進一步的克服了嘛\n437839\t460785\t警力當然地方都會提報他警力的缺口我們會有年度計畫逐年的在補強他們的警力的這個編制市長我這邊想把這個問題提出來的意思是說今天假如我們當初的目的很清楚我們是用A方法來處理這個問題我們現在說A方法不好我要換不是不能討論但我原本的問題還在啊\n462245\t490291\t那請問我從A方法要換成什麼B方法來去處理當初認為警力跟執法量能不足的問題這件事情我認為不管是內政部或交通部也要有個交代跟方案啊不然我們等於放著原本大家憂慮的執法量能不足的問題一樣擺在那個地方啊它一樣還是問題存在啊我們不能只說A方法我覺得不夠好啊那我們面對當時執法量能不足的問題現在有沒有更進一步的方案\n491772\t492913\t所以我這邊其實很理性在討論這個問題是\n515094\t540598\t今天大家覺得A方法不夠好有副作用要修正我覺得在討論上我覺得可以討論可是你要拿出替代的方法來去處理我們原本大家覺得那個痛點的問題執法量能不足所以今天我覺得如果下禮拜下下禮拜我們要來討論這個違罪限縮檢舉的事情的時候我自己認為內政部恐怕跟交通部恐怕要拿出那你怎麼克服原本說警力不足這個問題那你接下來的方案是什麼\n541903\t559735\t﹏﹏\n564152\t581219\t接下來可能在交通委員會或內政委員會來修要處理道交條例我認為到時候交通部跟內政部就要拿出一個方案來去處理當初大家覺得警力不足那你們打算該怎麼辦比方說要不要多聘交通的相關的管理員那中央願不願意多出一些錢\n582793\t591458\t我覺得這可以討論喔如果中央願意多出一些錢讓地方政府多拼一些來相關做管理跟執法的人員這也是一種方法可是不能擺著這個問題不處理啊\n594107\t594267\t議員黃聖翰委員\n","txt":"主席的眼鏡是被黃捷委員拿到哪裡去了那個請內政部跟交通部請內政部我們的副處長以及我們交通部我們的處長市長有幾個事情我們今天討論到這個行人剛剛大家講到行人地域或行人交通安全的問題\n那我想不管是次長或者是剛才吳署長國土署吳署長應該都有印象我們其實在去年的時候大概八九月的時候那時候我們跟很多相關的路權團體其實進行了幾次我覺得非常非常深度而且非常正面大家的交流那在那裡面我不知道次長還記不記得其實就有團體反映喔如果你是一個障礙者\n基本上你在這個人行道的過程裡面其實你會遇到大量的這個因為機車危停而讓你寸步難行的狀況這是一件事情但另外一件事情是大家常常在各地方遇到打電話報警或各個投訴無人聞問到處踢來踢去的狀況市長還記不記得當時團體反映這個這個情境記得嗎\n我想這個部分我們當然其實我們聽了之後我們自己也覺得這個議題的處理確實我們需要好好的來思考我記得那時候跟我說他可能甚至打電話給警方檢舉了100次都沒有任何人來過幫他把現場的這個這個可能是機車危停的狀況去移除都沒有\n那這當然是地方上面執法上面我們看到的真實的狀況好那回到這一次修法齁\n市長 這次的修法裡面當然我們看到第8條 原版第8條裡面它有講到這個固定設施那有一些相關的要求跟處理要求地方政府去處理固定設施一個處理相關的一些程序跟應然該做的作為但就像我們剛才說維庭的機車它不是固定設施啊它是非固定的可移動式的障礙物的設施啊那我們針對這個部分\n市長我們怎麼處理當然這個部分是比較屬於執法的那個面向就是我們今天這個有四個那處罰條例當然還是可以處理但是當然市長現在這些條例跟包括你們會回這個廢清法有啊道交條例有啊市區道路條例有啊是啊現在就有啊這些條例現在也有啊不是不存在啊可是一樣這個問題一樣好多縣市都還是這個狀況啊\n我跟委員報告確實我想在執法實務上面確實我覺得這也需要看從地方政府的警力和問題的輕重緩急確實我們還是要有一個比較全面性的檢討和改善的機制還是要出來但是實質上您提的那個問題那個狀況當然每個縣市或有他可能怠惰\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n市長今天在我們要修這個行人安全設施條例的條文裡面我們自己增加了一個部分是非固定設施的可移動障礙物我們要求地方政府要指定一個專責處理的單位地方政府就指定一個誰來處理類似的事情只要有這個問題的他就要去處理\n那如果沒處理好 那大家就找他 不要推來推去轉來轉去 市長你覺得這個做法OK不OK我跟你們報告實質上我們在訂這個法的時候 我們也本來有一個期待是地方對於這個行人安全的這個所有的事情 是應該我們也期待他能夠找出一個\n議員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案：立法院第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第\n我們就找他 請他來處理我們這個事情可不可以讓我們的因為這背後確實也涉及到地方自治的那個彈性跟權限的是 可是我們現在我們訂這個條例的原因就是我們不能再把所有事情推給地方自治了嘛\n我們過去就是因為這些事情我們都說是地方自治所以現在大家才看到這個亂象這一次終於中央有一個態度我們訂了一個法這個條例有一個母法來去要求地方政府你該怎麼做這些工作嘛不是只是在過去那些要點裡面嘛這就是我們不能再推給只是單純的地方自治了嘛所以我們不是說今天我一定要要求你是誰你地方政府自己指定你自己指定你說好就好那大家就找他\n委員黃捷等16人擬具\n我們之前為什麼會討論說要開放更多項目的檢舉,你們還記不記得為什麼?這問題不難啊。那時候就是覺得警力不足啊。\n因為警力不足、執法人量能不足所以當初才覺得說我們是不是開放更多的項目變成讓大家檢舉變得有點像是民眾自救來或者民眾也可以參與來糾正相關的這個交通上面的秩序的問題就是這個原因嘛 對不對那我現在問題啦好那現在假如我們現在說違罪要限縮檢舉我們現在的方案是這樣嘛 對不對那我們的警力有比過去足嗎\n我們之前之所以有處理這件事情的工具的時候是因為警力不足嘛 對不對我們很清楚那現在我們說違罪、限縮檢舉的時候我覺得任何管理的方法都可以討論但我們必須針對問題嘛所以當初警力不足的這件事情現在有沒有更進一步的克服了嘛\n警力當然地方都會提報他警力的缺口我們會有年度計畫逐年的在補強他們的警力的這個編制市長我這邊想把這個問題提出來的意思是說今天假如我們當初的目的很清楚我們是用A方法來處理這個問題我們現在說A方法不好我要換不是不能討論但我原本的問題還在啊\n那請問我從A方法要換成什麼B方法來去處理當初認為警力跟執法量能不足的問題這件事情我認為不管是內政部或交通部也要有個交代跟方案啊不然我們等於放著原本大家憂慮的執法量能不足的問題一樣擺在那個地方啊它一樣還是問題存在啊我們不能只說A方法我覺得不夠好啊那我們面對當時執法量能不足的問題現在有沒有更進一步的方案\n所以我這邊其實很理性在討論這個問題是\n今天大家覺得A方法不夠好有副作用要修正我覺得在討論上我覺得可以討論可是你要拿出替代的方法來去處理我們原本大家覺得那個痛點的問題執法量能不足所以今天我覺得如果下禮拜下下禮拜我們要來討論這個違罪限縮檢舉的事情的時候我自己認為內政部恐怕跟交通部恐怕要拿出那你怎麼克服原本說警力不足這個問題那你接下來的方案是什麼\n﹏﹏\n接下來可能在交通委員會或內政委員會來修要處理道交條例我認為到時候交通部跟內政部就要拿出一個方案來去處理當初大家覺得警力不足那你們打算該怎麼辦比方說要不要多聘交通的相關的管理員那中央願不願意多出一些錢\n我覺得這可以討論喔如果中央願意多出一些錢讓地方政府多拼一些來相關做管理跟執法的人員這也是一種方法可是不能擺著這個問題不處理啊\n議員黃聖翰委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.488 --> 00:32.075\n主席的眼鏡是被黃捷委員拿到哪裡去了那個請內政部跟交通部請內政部我們的副處長以及我們交通部我們的處長市長有幾個事情我們今天討論到這個行人剛剛大家講到行人地域或行人交通安全的問題\n\n00:33.567 --> 00:59.420\n那我想不管是次長或者是剛才吳署長國土署吳署長應該都有印象我們其實在去年的時候大概八九月的時候那時候我們跟很多相關的路權團體其實進行了幾次我覺得非常非常深度而且非常正面大家的交流那在那裡面我不知道次長還記不記得其實就有團體反映喔如果你是一個障礙者\n\n01:00.578 --> 01:23.672\n基本上你在這個人行道的過程裡面其實你會遇到大量的這個因為機車危停而讓你寸步難行的狀況這是一件事情但另外一件事情是大家常常在各地方遇到打電話報警或各個投訴無人聞問到處踢來踢去的狀況市長還記不記得當時團體反映這個這個情境記得嗎\n\n01:28.001 --> 01:54.297\n我想這個部分我們當然其實我們聽了之後我們自己也覺得這個議題的處理確實我們需要好好的來思考我記得那時候跟我說他可能甚至打電話給警方檢舉了100次都沒有任何人來過幫他把現場的這個這個可能是機車危停的狀況去移除都沒有\n\n01:55.970 --> 02:02.002\n那這當然是地方上面執法上面我們看到的真實的狀況好那回到這一次修法齁\n\n02:04.391 --> 02:31.271\n市長這次的修法裡面當然我們看到第8條原版第8條裡面它有講到這個固定設施那有一些相關的要求跟處理要求地方政府去處理固定設施一個處理相關的一些程序跟應然該做的作為但就像我們剛才說維庭的機車它不是固定設施啊它是非固定的可移動式的障礙物的設施啊那我們針對這個部分\n\n02:32.782 --> 03:00.391\n市長我們怎麼處理當然這個部分是比較屬於執法的那個面向就是我們今天這個有四個那處罰條例當然還是可以處理但是當然市長現在這些條例跟包括你們會回這個廢清法有啊道交條例有啊市區道路條例有啊是啊現在就有啊這些條例現在也有啊不是不存在啊可是一樣這個問題一樣好多縣市都還是這個狀況啊\n\n03:02.142 --> 03:27.058\n我跟委員報告確實我想在執法實務上面確實我覺得這也需要看從地方政府的警力和問題的輕重緩急確實我們還是要有一個比較全面性的檢討和改善的機制還是要出來但是實質上您提的那個問題那個狀況當然每個縣市或有他可能怠惰\n\n03:51.858 --> 04:13.688\n市長今天在我們要修這個行人安全設施條例的條文裡面我們自己增加了一個部分是非固定設施的可移動障礙物我們要求地方政府要指定一個專責處理的單位地方政府就指定一個誰來處理類似的事情只要有這個問題的他就要去處理\n\n04:14.741 --> 04:36.304\n那如果沒處理好那大家就找他不要推來推去轉來轉去市長你覺得這個做法OK不OK我跟你們報告實質上我們在訂這個法的時候我們也本來有一個期待是地方對於這個行人安全的這個所有的事情是應該我們也期待他能夠找出一個\n\n04:37.458 --> 04:50.205\n議員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案：立法院第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第\n\n04:55.049 --> 05:09.054\n我們就找他請他來處理我們這個事情可不可以讓我們的因為這背後確實也涉及到地方自治的那個彈性跟權限的是可是我們現在我們訂這個條例的原因就是我們不能再把所有事情推給地方自治了嘛\n\n05:09.654 --> 05:38.561\n我們過去就是因為這些事情我們都說是地方自治所以現在大家才看到這個亂象這一次終於中央有一個態度我們訂了一個法這個條例有一個母法來去要求地方政府你該怎麼做這些工作嘛不是只是在過去那些要點裡面嘛這就是我們不能再推給只是單純的地方自治了嘛所以我們不是說今天我一定要要求你是誰你地方政府自己指定你自己指定你說好就好那大家就找他\n\n05:39.841 --> 05:40.161\n委員黃捷等16人擬具\n\n06:06.460 --> 06:10.966\n我們之前為什麼會討論說要開放更多項目的檢舉,你們還記不記得為什麼?這問題不難啊。那時候就是覺得警力不足啊。\n\n06:23.513 --> 06:51.445\n因為警力不足、執法人量能不足所以當初才覺得說我們是不是開放更多的項目變成讓大家檢舉變得有點像是民眾自救來或者民眾也可以參與來糾正相關的這個交通上面的秩序的問題就是這個原因嘛對不對那我現在問題啦好那現在假如我們現在說違罪要限縮檢舉我們現在的方案是這樣嘛對不對那我們的警力有比過去足嗎\n\n06:54.842 --> 07:15.203\n我們之前之所以有處理這件事情的工具的時候是因為警力不足嘛對不對我們很清楚那現在我們說違罪、限縮檢舉的時候我覺得任何管理的方法都可以討論但我們必須針對問題嘛所以當初警力不足的這件事情現在有沒有更進一步的克服了嘛\n\n07:17.839 --> 07:40.785\n警力當然地方都會提報他警力的缺口我們會有年度計畫逐年的在補強他們的警力的這個編制市長我這邊想把這個問題提出來的意思是說今天假如我們當初的目的很清楚我們是用A方法來處理這個問題我們現在說A方法不好我要換不是不能討論但我原本的問題還在啊\n\n07:42.245 --> 08:10.291\n那請問我從A方法要換成什麼B方法來去處理當初認為警力跟執法量能不足的問題這件事情我認為不管是內政部或交通部也要有個交代跟方案啊不然我們等於放著原本大家憂慮的執法量能不足的問題一樣擺在那個地方啊它一樣還是問題存在啊我們不能只說A方法我覺得不夠好啊那我們面對當時執法量能不足的問題現在有沒有更進一步的方案\n\n08:11.772 --> 08:12.913\n所以我這邊其實很理性在討論這個問題是\n\n08:35.094 --> 09:00.598\n今天大家覺得A方法不夠好有副作用要修正我覺得在討論上我覺得可以討論可是你要拿出替代的方法來去處理我們原本大家覺得那個痛點的問題執法量能不足所以今天我覺得如果下禮拜下下禮拜我們要來討論這個違罪限縮檢舉的事情的時候我自己認為內政部恐怕跟交通部恐怕要拿出那你怎麼克服原本說警力不足這個問題那你接下來的方案是什麼\n\n09:24.152 --> 09:41.219\n接下來可能在交通委員會或內政委員會來修要處理道交條例我認為到時候交通部跟內政部就要拿出一個方案來去處理當初大家覺得警力不足那你們打算該怎麼辦比方說要不要多聘交通的相關的管理員那中央願不願意多出一些錢\n\n09:42.793 --> 09:51.458\n我覺得這可以討論喔如果中央願意多出一些錢讓地方政府多拼一些來相關做管理跟執法的人員這也是一種方法可是不能擺著這個問題不處理啊\n\n09:54.107 --> 09:54.267\n議員黃聖翰委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.488,"end":32.075,"text":"主席的眼鏡是被黃捷委員拿到哪裡去了那個請內政部跟交通部請內政部我們的副處長以及我們交通部我們的處長市長有幾個事情我們今天討論到這個行人剛剛大家講到行人地域或行人交通安全的問題"},{"start":33.567,"end":59.42,"text":"那我想不管是次長或者是剛才吳署長國土署吳署長應該都有印象我們其實在去年的時候大概八九月的時候那時候我們跟很多相關的路權團體其實進行了幾次我覺得非常非常深度而且非常正面大家的交流那在那裡面我不知道次長還記不記得其實就有團體反映喔如果你是一個障礙者"},{"start":60.578,"end":83.672,"text":"基本上你在這個人行道的過程裡面其實你會遇到大量的這個因為機車危停而讓你寸步難行的狀況這是一件事情但另外一件事情是大家常常在各地方遇到打電話報警或各個投訴無人聞問到處踢來踢去的狀況市長還記不記得當時團體反映這個這個情境記得嗎"},{"start":88.001,"end":114.297,"text":"我想這個部分我們當然其實我們聽了之後我們自己也覺得這個議題的處理確實我們需要好好的來思考我記得那時候跟我說他可能甚至打電話給警方檢舉了100次都沒有任何人來過幫他把現場的這個這個可能是機車危停的狀況去移除都沒有"},{"start":115.97,"end":122.002,"text":"那這當然是地方上面執法上面我們看到的真實的狀況好那回到這一次修法齁"},{"start":124.391,"end":151.271,"text":"市長 這次的修法裡面當然我們看到第8條 原版第8條裡面它有講到這個固定設施那有一些相關的要求跟處理要求地方政府去處理固定設施一個處理相關的一些程序跟應然該做的作為但就像我們剛才說維庭的機車它不是固定設施啊它是非固定的可移動式的障礙物的設施啊那我們針對這個部分"},{"start":152.782,"end":180.391,"text":"市長我們怎麼處理當然這個部分是比較屬於執法的那個面向就是我們今天這個有四個那處罰條例當然還是可以處理但是當然市長現在這些條例跟包括你們會回這個廢清法有啊道交條例有啊市區道路條例有啊是啊現在就有啊這些條例現在也有啊不是不存在啊可是一樣這個問題一樣好多縣市都還是這個狀況啊"},{"start":182.142,"end":207.058,"text":"我跟委員報告確實我想在執法實務上面確實我覺得這也需要看從地方政府的警力和問題的輕重緩急確實我們還是要有一個比較全面性的檢討和改善的機制還是要出來但是實質上您提的那個問題那個狀況當然每個縣市或有他可能怠惰"},{"start":207.398,"end":231.254,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":231.858,"end":253.688,"text":"市長今天在我們要修這個行人安全設施條例的條文裡面我們自己增加了一個部分是非固定設施的可移動障礙物我們要求地方政府要指定一個專責處理的單位地方政府就指定一個誰來處理類似的事情只要有這個問題的他就要去處理"},{"start":254.741,"end":276.304,"text":"那如果沒處理好 那大家就找他 不要推來推去轉來轉去 市長你覺得這個做法OK不OK我跟你們報告實質上我們在訂這個法的時候 我們也本來有一個期待是地方對於這個行人安全的這個所有的事情 是應該我們也期待他能夠找出一個"},{"start":277.458,"end":290.205,"text":"議員黃捷等16人擬具:「行人交通安全設施條例草案：立法院第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第1會期內政、交通委員會第"},{"start":295.049,"end":309.054,"text":"我們就找他 請他來處理我們這個事情可不可以讓我們的因為這背後確實也涉及到地方自治的那個彈性跟權限的是 可是我們現在我們訂這個條例的原因就是我們不能再把所有事情推給地方自治了嘛"},{"start":309.654,"end":338.561,"text":"我們過去就是因為這些事情我們都說是地方自治所以現在大家才看到這個亂象這一次終於中央有一個態度我們訂了一個法這個條例有一個母法來去要求地方政府你該怎麼做這些工作嘛不是只是在過去那些要點裡面嘛這就是我們不能再推給只是單純的地方自治了嘛所以我們不是說今天我一定要要求你是誰你地方政府自己指定你自己指定你說好就好那大家就找他"},{"start":339.841,"end":340.161,"text":"委員黃捷等16人擬具"},{"start":366.46,"end":370.966,"text":"我們之前為什麼會討論說要開放更多項目的檢舉,你們還記不記得為什麼?這問題不難啊。那時候就是覺得警力不足啊。"},{"start":383.513,"end":411.445,"text":"因為警力不足、執法人量能不足所以當初才覺得說我們是不是開放更多的項目變成讓大家檢舉變得有點像是民眾自救來或者民眾也可以參與來糾正相關的這個交通上面的秩序的問題就是這個原因嘛 對不對那我現在問題啦好那現在假如我們現在說違罪要限縮檢舉我們現在的方案是這樣嘛 對不對那我們的警力有比過去足嗎"},{"start":414.842,"end":435.203,"text":"我們之前之所以有處理這件事情的工具的時候是因為警力不足嘛 對不對我們很清楚那現在我們說違罪、限縮檢舉的時候我覺得任何管理的方法都可以討論但我們必須針對問題嘛所以當初警力不足的這件事情現在有沒有更進一步的克服了嘛"},{"start":437.839,"end":460.785,"text":"警力當然地方都會提報他警力的缺口我們會有年度計畫逐年的在補強他們的警力的這個編制市長我這邊想把這個問題提出來的意思是說今天假如我們當初的目的很清楚我們是用A方法來處理這個問題我們現在說A方法不好我要換不是不能討論但我原本的問題還在啊"},{"start":462.245,"end":490.291,"text":"那請問我從A方法要換成什麼B方法來去處理當初認為警力跟執法量能不足的問題這件事情我認為不管是內政部或交通部也要有個交代跟方案啊不然我們等於放著原本大家憂慮的執法量能不足的問題一樣擺在那個地方啊它一樣還是問題存在啊我們不能只說A方法我覺得不夠好啊那我們面對當時執法量能不足的問題現在有沒有更進一步的方案"},{"start":491.772,"end":492.913,"text":"所以我這邊其實很理性在討論這個問題是"},{"start":515.094,"end":540.598,"text":"今天大家覺得A方法不夠好有副作用要修正我覺得在討論上我覺得可以討論可是你要拿出替代的方法來去處理我們原本大家覺得那個痛點的問題執法量能不足所以今天我覺得如果下禮拜下下禮拜我們要來討論這個違罪限縮檢舉的事情的時候我自己認為內政部恐怕跟交通部恐怕要拿出那你怎麼克服原本說警力不足這個問題那你接下來的方案是什麼"},{"start":541.903,"end":559.735,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":564.152,"end":581.219,"text":"接下來可能在交通委員會或內政委員會來修要處理道交條例我認為到時候交通部跟內政部就要拿出一個方案來去處理當初大家覺得警力不足那你們打算該怎麼辦比方說要不要多聘交通的相關的管理員那中央願不願意多出一些錢"},{"start":582.793,"end":591.458,"text":"我覺得這可以討論喔如果中央願意多出一些錢讓地方政府多拼一些來相關做管理跟執法的人員這也是一種方法可是不能擺著這個問題不處理啊"},{"start":594.107,"end":594.267,"text":"議員黃聖翰委員"}]}}}}