{"id":150561,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150561","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdf4f11ee26117a247735da83422e330f45f8ba9b0039caa7a63c866e876d24eab55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"09:18:49 - 09:27:16","影片長度":"00:08:27","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請外交部部長報告「美國2024年大選過程對我國及印太地區的衝擊及影響」，並備質詢。\n二、處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等 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Taiwan，沒有問題，對不對？"],["田次長中光：對。"],["林委員楚茵：臺灣人講得很大聲，臺灣的民眾也以臺灣為榮。但是如果接下來，最新的訊息就是馬前總統要去中國，那麼當他到了中國之後，他所釋出的訊息跟現在最新的民調當中沒什麼相同，甚至於中間產生不同的時候，到底外交官在面對這些訊息的時候該如何跟國際社會解釋？馬英九最近要去中國，馬辦說臺灣是中國的一部分，馬英九也認為九二共識……他講的這個九二共識是不是習近平說的那一個只有「一中」，而且沒有「各表」，只有那個中華人民共和國的「一中」？因為在選前他講了要相信習近平，等於習近平說的話就算。那麼我想就教政次，如果這樣，馬英九4月1日去了中國之後，外交部如何把這樣的訊息，跟國內61%、六成以上民眾的認知如果相左，我們要怎麼解釋？我們釋出了什麼樣的訊息給國際社會？"],["田次長中光：中華民國從來就不是中華人民共和國的一部分，這個是非常非常清楚的，所以我們從事外交的這個立場，我們非常非常地清楚，在國外我們推動臺灣的外交也是以這個基礎來做。那麼我們本的是什麼？本的是我們是民主、自由、人權這個非常重要的普世價值來推動外交。那我們來看看對岸是不是民主、對岸是不是尊重人權？這個答案非常非常地明顯。所以也跟委員報告，不要擔心外交部，外交部一定本著這個原則去推動我們跟國際的外交。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我會特別提這個部分是因為，你們這些年來在國際上面對中國許多外交上的打壓是辛苦的，他們的戰狼外交處處讓我們穿小鞋，其實第一線外交同仁的辛苦我都知道。但是如果前總統到了中國去之後，再更進一步地，過去他只講要相信習近平，現在如果開始跟習近平手拉手的時候，這樣的訊息跟國內超過六成以上認為自己是臺灣人的民眾是相違背的。我希望有這個民調給你們底氣，在面對國際社會解釋的時候要講清楚，不是現在他們所講的立法院新民意，那麼就是要跟中國站在一起，甚至於說臺灣是中國的一部分。我希望這個數據拿出來，而且是最新的數據，可以給外交同仁在第一線的時候更有底氣。"],["田次長中光：謝謝。"],["林委員楚茵：好。另外一個要問的當然也是最新的訊息，不知道今天早上部長請假是不是因為去接見來自美國聯邦眾議院的軍事委員會？其中「情報暨特種作戰」小組主席柏格曼昨天已經抵達了臺灣。這個軍委會來臺灣，其實大家想要瞭解是其背後的訊息又是什麼？因為今天剛好我們的報告也提到，接下來大概就是拜登跟川普二度對決，尤其選在520之前來臺灣，又代表什麼樣的訊息？包括我們也看到美國2024年的會計年度撥款計畫，其中竟然是，他們內部為了讓政府可以運作這樣的一個撥款計畫，也讓臺灣包含其中。因為時間有限，所以我是不是讓政次跟大家說明到底這次「情報暨特種作戰」小組來臺，代表什麼樣的意涵，包括對未來、對臺灣以及臺美之間有什麼影響？"],["田次長中光：其實我們翻開過去的例子，美國不論是民主黨、共和黨的議員來臺灣，身分都非常多。臺灣跟美國基本上就是民主聯盟的一份子，有各式各樣的委員會來臺灣表達一個支持、跨黨派的支持。所以我認為有這個「情報暨特種作戰」小組來這裡也不足為奇，再次表達對臺灣的一個支持。"],["林委員楚茵：就是所謂的臺美或者臺海，甚至印太地區的合作，臺灣是堅強的一份子……"],["田次長中光：確實。"],["林委員楚茵：這個是不會改變的，也無論接下來他們的大選結果有什麼不同，因為對他們的國家戰略來說，臺灣就是重要的一份子。"],["田次長中光：臺灣是一份子。"],["林委員楚茵：是這個意思嗎？"],["田次長中光：確實。"],["林委員楚茵：好。但是馬英九故意選在520之前去中國，甚至於會見所謂的老朋友，身為前總統，但是卻說臺灣是中國的一部分，非常地奇怪。是不是他們也擔憂臺灣內部一些政治上的變化，所以也來這裡瞭解一下臺灣內部的狀況？我是指美國的訪問團。"],["田次長中光：我認為這個訪問團跟馬前總統去中國與否並沒有直接的關係，我們退一步講，如果馬總統今天沒有去，這個訪問團還是會來表達支持的立場。所以這個部分其實對臺灣來講，在國際來講臺灣的形象也非常非常地重要、非常非常地肯定。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以對於報告當中特別提到，不論是川普或是拜登，在印太戰略當中其實他們的目標都是一致的。我還記得王定宇召委當時在成立臺灣和美國的國會聯誼會，我們未來的蕭美琴副總統也曾經講過，這是別人在國會上面的一些選舉的過程，但是臺灣和美國是重要戰略夥伴的友誼關係是不變的。那麼對於外交部來說，怎麼樣做接下來美國選舉情勢的評估？"],["田次長中光：剛才在報告中也跟大院委員做了一次報告，其實臺美關係非常非常地深厚，我們有臺灣關係法、六項保證，這都是我們非常堅強的基石，所以今天他們的候選人是哪一位，其實是不會動搖到臺美長期的關係。因為像剛剛您說的，臺灣所扮演的，是印太戰略非常重要的第一島鏈，而且我們的高科技等等都是國際自由社會所需要的東西，所以我們不認為選舉出來的候選人，對於臺美關係有任何重大的改變。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員。次長請回。","今天本委員會安排的就美國2024年總統大選對印太地區及臺灣的衝擊，跟美國國會軍事及情報委員會的來訪毫無關聯，我們沒有事前聯繫，但是你們質詢的內容，會不會聽到我就不知道。","另外，外交部部長今天是有重要的外交場域以及外交活動必須請假，我也沒有說是哪一個外交場域，這是你猜的。","接下來我們要邀請進行詢答的委員是羅美玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-10","speakers":["王定宇","林楚茵","羅美玲","馬文君","洪申翰","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","黃國昌","李坤城","牛煦庭","徐巧芯","陳培瑜","林憶君","陳永康","羅智強"],"page_start":179,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請外交部部長報告「美國2024年大選過程對我國及印太地區的衝擊及影響」，並備質詢；\n二、處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等6案","agenda_id":"1132101_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"150561","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150561","tool":"pyannote","id":"150561-pyannote"},"job_id":"YuvaKFabETJ9i4ci","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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{\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 76.252, \"end\": 76.272, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 76.272, \"end\": 76.292, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 76.292, \"end\": 76.372, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"聲\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 76.372, \"end\": 76.392, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 76.392, \"end\": 76.412, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 76.412, \"end\": 76.432, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 76.432, \"end\": 76.532, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 76.532, \"end\": 76.552, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 76.552, \"end\": 76.572, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"榮\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 76.572, \"end\": 76.592, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 76.592, \"end\": 76.612, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 76.612, \"end\": 76.632, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 76.632, \"end\": 76.772, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 76.772, \"end\": 76.872, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 76.872, \"end\": 77.052, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 77.052, \"end\": 77.172, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 77.172, \"end\": 77.273, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 77.273, \"end\": 77.353, \"score\": 0.451}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 77.353, \"end\": 77.373, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 77.373, \"end\": 77.473, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 77.473, \"end\": 77.493, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 77.493, \"end\": 77.513, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 77.513, \"end\": 77.533, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 77.533, \"end\": 77.573, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 77.573, \"end\": 77.653, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 77.653, \"end\": 77.673, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 77.673, \"end\": 77.693, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 77.693, \"end\": 77.713, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 89.284, \"end\": 109.694, \"text\": \"那麼當他到了中國之後．他所釋出的訊息．跟現在最新的民調當中．沒什麼相同．甚至於在中間產生不同的時候．到底外交官在面對這些訊息的時候．該如何跟國際社會解釋馬英九最近要去中國．馬辦說台灣是中國的一部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 89.284, \"end\": 90.264, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 90.264, \"end\": 90.585, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 90.585, \"end\": 90.865, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 90.865, \"end\": 91.085, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 91.085, \"end\": 91.625, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 91.625, \"end\": 91.865, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 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101.55, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 101.55, \"end\": 101.85, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 101.85, \"end\": 102.67, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"．\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 102.67, \"end\": 102.91, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 102.91, \"end\": 103.271, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 103.271, \"end\": 103.391, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 103.391, \"end\": 103.591, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 103.591, \"end\": 103.831, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 103.831, \"end\": 103.991, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 103.991, \"end\": 104.411, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 104.411, \"end\": 104.771, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 104.771, \"end\": 104.911, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.911, \"end\": 105.031, 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{\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 108.993, \"end\": 109.093, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 109.093, \"end\": 109.113, \"score\": 0.637}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"．\"}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 109.113, \"end\": 109.254, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 109.254, \"end\": 109.274, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 109.274, \"end\": 109.294, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 109.294, \"end\": 109.314, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 109.314, \"end\": 109.394, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 109.394, \"end\": 109.674, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 109.674, \"end\": 109.694, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 112.555, \"end\": 127.335, \"text\": \"然後馬英九也認為說九二共識他講的這個九二共識是不是習近平說的那一個只有一中而且沒有個表只有那個中華人民共和國的一中因為他說他在選前講了要相信習近平等於習近平說的話就算\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 112.555, \"end\": 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00:00:45,355\n就是認為自己是台灣人的部分呢逐年上升從一開始92年的只有17.6%現在來到這是今年2月公佈的喔有61.7%同樣的自己自認是中國人的部分是創了新低只有2.4%不知道您有沒有看過這個民調\n\n3\n00:00:47,118 --> 00:01:10,707\n我多多少少有了解,隨著時間的提升,我們這個比例越來越大。好,為什麼我會特別問這個是,我想外交是我們主權的另外一個延伸。外交官們到國外去代表的就是我們中華民國,代表著台灣。有的時候這個定位定定,這個標,座標定對了,才能夠知道到底外交工作要如何來鞏固我們的主權。\n\n4\n00:01:11,647 --> 00:01:17,713\n那麼我相信今天外交官走出去都會告訴大家說我是來自於中華民國沒有問題對不對台灣人講得很大聲台灣的民眾也以台灣為榮但是如果說接下來這個最新的訊息就是我們的馬前總統要去中國了\n\n5\n00:01:29,284 --> 00:01:49,694\n那麼當他到了中國之後．他所釋出的訊息．跟現在最新的民調當中．沒什麼相同．甚至於在中間產生不同的時候．到底外交官在面對這些訊息的時候．該如何跟國際社會解釋馬英九最近要去中國．馬辦說台灣是中國的一部分\n\n6\n00:01:52,555 --> 00:02:07,335\n然後馬英九也認為說九二共識他講的這個九二共識是不是習近平說的那一個只有一中而且沒有個表只有那個中華人民共和國的一中因為他說他在選前講了要相信習近平等於習近平說的話就算\n\n7\n00:02:08,456 --> 00:02:24,744\n那麼我想就教這次的就是那如果這樣馬英九4月1號去了中國之後我們外交部如何把這樣的訊息跟國內61%6成以上的民眾認知如果相左我們要怎麼解釋我們釋出了什麼樣的訊息給國際社會\n\n8\n00:02:30,752 --> 00:02:52,838\n中華民國從來就不是中華人民共和國的一部分這個是非常非常的清楚的所以我們在外交從事外交的這個立場我們非常非常清楚在國外我們推動臺灣的外交也是以這個基礎來做那麼我們本的是什麼呢本的是我們是民主\n\n9\n00:02:53,678 --> 00:03:00,928\n自由、人權這非常重要的普世價值來推動我們的外交那我們來看看對岸是不是民主\n\n10\n00:03:02,097 --> 00:03:30,205\n對岸是不是尊重人權．這個答案其實非常非常的明顯所以跟委員也報告不要擔心外交部外交部一定本這個原則去推動我們跟國際的外交部好因為我會特別提這個部分是因為你們過這些年來在國際上面面對中國許多外交上面的打壓是辛苦的他們的戰狼外交處處讓我們穿小鞋其實第一線的同仁外交同仁的辛苦我都知道\n\n11\n00:03:30,845 --> 00:03:43,455\n但是如果說今天前總統到了中國去之後再更進一步的過去他只講說要相信習近平現在如果開始跟習近平手拉手的時候這樣的訊息是跟我們國內大家超過六成以上認為自己是台灣人的民眾是相違背的那麼我希望有這個民調讓你們做底氣在面對國際社會解釋的時候要講清楚不是現在他們所講的立法院\n\n12\n00:04:00,247 --> 00:04:22,136\n新民意那麼就是要跟中國站在一起甚至於說臺灣是中國的一部分我希望這個數據拿出來而且是個最新的數據可以給外交同仁在第一線的時候更有底氣謝謝好另外一個要問的當然一個最新的訊息不知道說今天早上部長請假是不是因為去這個接見了這個來自於美國聯邦眾議院\n\n13\n00:04:23,877 --> 00:04:53,197\n的軍事委員會其中呢情報暨特別作戰小組的主席博格曼現在人在昨天已經抵達了台灣這樣的一個軍委會來台灣其實大家想要了解是他背後的訊息又是什麼因為今天剛好我們的報告也提到了那麼接下來大概就是拜登跟川普再度的二度對決那麼尤其選在520之前來台灣又代表的是什麼樣的訊息呢包括我們也看到了美國\n\n14\n00:04:54,997 --> 00:05:13,825\n2024年他們的快進年度的這個撥款計劃其中竟然他們政府內部為了讓政府可以運作的這樣的一個撥款計劃也讓台灣包含其中因為時間有限所以我是不是可以讓這次讓大家跟大家說明一下到底這一次的這種情報暨特種作戰小組來台他代表什麼樣的意涵以及對未來對台灣以及台美之間有什麼影響\n\n15\n00:05:21,488 --> 00:05:49,754\n其實我們翻開過去美國不論是民主黨、共和黨的議員來台灣身份都有非常多那麼台灣跟美國基本上就是民主聯盟的一份子所以有各式各樣的委員會來台灣來表達一個支持、跨黨派的支持所以說我認為有情報及特種作戰小組來這裡也不足為奇在再次表達對台灣的一個支持\n\n16\n00:05:50,273 --> 00:05:56,861\n只是就是所謂的臺美或者是臺海或甚至印太地區的合作臺灣是堅強的一份子那麼這個是不會改變的也無論說接下來他們的大選結果有什麼不同因為對他們的國家戰略來說臺灣就是重要的一份子是這個意思嗎確實\n\n17\n00:06:08,314 --> 00:06:29,415\n好但是呢我們看到就像剛剛我延續的馬英九故意選在520之前去中國甚至於會見所謂的老朋友身為一個總前總統但是卻說台灣是中國的一部分非常的奇怪那麼是不是他們也擔憂台灣內部的一些政治上的變化所以也來這裡瞭解一下台灣內部的狀況呢\n\n18\n00:06:31,036 --> 00:06:57,094\n我是指美國的這個訪問團我認為這個訪問團跟馬前總統去中國與否並沒有直接的關係我們退一步講如果說馬總統今天沒有去這個訪問團還是會來表達一個支持的立場所以這個部分其實對台灣來講在國際來講台灣的形象也非常非常的重要非常非常的肯定\n\n19\n00:06:57,810 --> 00:07:13,239\n好,所以對於這個報告當中特別提到不論是川普或是拜登在印太戰略當中其實他們的目標都是一致的那麼其實在這個選舉當中我還記得王定宇、趙偉當時在成立台灣跟美國的國會聯誼會那麼我們的未來的蕭美琴副總統也曾經講過了這是別人在國會上面的一些選舉的過程當中但是台灣站在一個跟美國重要的戰略夥伴當中的這個\n\n20\n00:07:26,167 --> 00:07:34,254\n有疑關係是不變的那麼對於外交部來說怎麼樣來做現在接下來美國的選舉的情勢的評估剛才在報告中也跟大院的委員做一次報告其實臺美的關係非常非常的深厚我們有臺灣關係法我們有六項保證這都是我們非常堅強的機制所以說今天他\n\n21\n00:07:52,611 --> 00:07:53,731\n好,謝謝。那你要繼續也可以啦。\n\n22\n00:08:23,291 --> 00:08:27,844\n好,謝謝林楚茵委員來次長請會我們今天本委會安排的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n542\t28386\t謝謝主席,主席有請田政次來,田次林委員您早市長早今天開始之前我想先問個實事題好了就是不知道您有沒有看過這個現在在您的畫面當中右手邊的這個最新的民調就是這是一個從1992年就開始持續做的是由政大的選研中心所公布的\n28786\t45355\t就是認為自己是台灣人的部分呢逐年上升從一開始92年的只有17.6%現在來到這是今年2月公佈的喔有61.7%同樣的自己自認是中國人的部分是創了新低只有2.4%不知道您有沒有看過這個民調\n47118\t70707\t我多多少少有了解,隨著時間的提升,我們這個比例越來越大。好,為什麼我會特別問這個是,我想外交是我們主權的另外一個延伸。外交官們到國外去代表的就是我們中華民國,代表著台灣。有的時候這個定位定定,這個標,座標定對了,才能夠知道到底外交工作要如何來鞏固我們的主權。\n71647\t77713\t那麼我相信今天外交官走出去都會告訴大家說我是來自於中華民國沒有問題對不對台灣人講得很大聲台灣的民眾也以台灣為榮但是如果說接下來這個最新的訊息就是我們的馬前總統要去中國了\n89284\t109694\t那麼當他到了中國之後．他所釋出的訊息．跟現在最新的民調當中．沒什麼相同．甚至於在中間產生不同的時候．到底外交官在面對這些訊息的時候．該如何跟國際社會解釋馬英九最近要去中國．馬辦說台灣是中國的一部分\n112555\t127335\t然後馬英九也認為說九二共識他講的這個九二共識是不是習近平說的那一個只有一中而且沒有個表只有那個中華人民共和國的一中因為他說他在選前講了要相信習近平等於習近平說的話就算\n128456\t144744\t那麼我想就教這次的就是那如果這樣馬英九4月1號去了中國之後我們外交部如何把這樣的訊息跟國內61%6成以上的民眾認知如果相左我們要怎麼解釋我們釋出了什麼樣的訊息給國際社會\n150752\t172838\t中華民國從來就不是中華人民共和國的一部分這個是非常非常的清楚的所以我們在外交從事外交的這個立場我們非常非常清楚在國外我們推動臺灣的外交也是以這個基礎來做那麼我們本的是什麼呢本的是我們是民主\n173678\t180928\t自由、人權這非常重要的普世價值來推動我們的外交那我們來看看對岸是不是民主\n182097\t210205\t對岸是不是尊重人權．這個答案其實非常非常的明顯所以跟委員也報告不要擔心外交部外交部一定本這個原則去推動我們跟國際的外交部好因為我會特別提這個部分是因為你們過這些年來在國際上面面對中國許多外交上面的打壓是辛苦的他們的戰狼外交處處讓我們穿小鞋其實第一線的同仁外交同仁的辛苦我都知道\n210845\t223455\t但是如果說今天前總統到了中國去之後再更進一步的過去他只講說要相信習近平現在如果開始跟習近平手拉手的時候這樣的訊息是跟我們國內大家超過六成以上認為自己是台灣人的民眾是相違背的那麼我希望有這個民調讓你們做底氣在面對國際社會解釋的時候要講清楚不是現在他們所講的立法院\n240247\t262136\t新民意那麼就是要跟中國站在一起甚至於說臺灣是中國的一部分我希望這個數據拿出來而且是個最新的數據可以給外交同仁在第一線的時候更有底氣謝謝好另外一個要問的當然一個最新的訊息不知道說今天早上部長請假是不是因為去這個接見了這個來自於美國聯邦眾議院\n263877\t293197\t的軍事委員會其中呢情報暨特別作戰小組的主席博格曼現在人在昨天已經抵達了台灣這樣的一個軍委會來台灣其實大家想要了解是他背後的訊息又是什麼因為今天剛好我們的報告也提到了那麼接下來大概就是拜登跟川普再度的二度對決那麼尤其選在520之前來台灣又代表的是什麼樣的訊息呢包括我們也看到了美國\n294997\t313825\t2024年他們的快進年度的這個撥款計劃其中竟然他們政府內部為了讓政府可以運作的這樣的一個撥款計劃也讓台灣包含其中因為時間有限所以我是不是可以讓這次讓大家跟大家說明一下到底這一次的這種情報暨特種作戰小組來台他代表什麼樣的意涵以及對未來對台灣以及台美之間有什麼影響\n321488\t349754\t其實我們翻開過去美國不論是民主黨、共和黨的議員來台灣身份都有非常多那麼台灣跟美國基本上就是民主聯盟的一份子所以有各式各樣的委員會來台灣來表達一個支持、跨黨派的支持所以說我認為有情報及特種作戰小組來這裡也不足為奇在再次表達對台灣的一個支持\n350273\t356861\t只是就是所謂的臺美或者是臺海或甚至印太地區的合作臺灣是堅強的一份子那麼這個是不會改變的也無論說接下來他們的大選結果有什麼不同因為對他們的國家戰略來說臺灣就是重要的一份子是這個意思嗎確實\n368314\t389415\t好但是呢我們看到就像剛剛我延續的馬英九故意選在520之前去中國甚至於會見所謂的老朋友身為一個總前總統但是卻說台灣是中國的一部分非常的奇怪那麼是不是他們也擔憂台灣內部的一些政治上的變化所以也來這裡瞭解一下台灣內部的狀況呢\n391036\t417094\t我是指美國的這個訪問團我認為這個訪問團跟馬前總統去中國與否並沒有直接的關係我們退一步講如果說馬總統今天沒有去這個訪問團還是會來表達一個支持的立場所以這個部分其實對台灣來講在國際來講台灣的形象也非常非常的重要非常非常的肯定\n417810\t433239\t好,所以對於這個報告當中特別提到不論是川普或是拜登在印太戰略當中其實他們的目標都是一致的那麼其實在這個選舉當中我還記得王定宇、趙偉當時在成立台灣跟美國的國會聯誼會那麼我們的未來的蕭美琴副總統也曾經講過了這是別人在國會上面的一些選舉的過程當中但是台灣站在一個跟美國重要的戰略夥伴當中的這個\n446167\t454254\t有疑關係是不變的那麼對於外交部來說怎麼樣來做現在接下來美國的選舉的情勢的評估剛才在報告中也跟大院的委員做一次報告其實臺美的關係非常非常的深厚我們有臺灣關係法我們有六項保證這都是我們非常堅強的機制所以說今天他\n472611\t473731\t好,謝謝。那你要繼續也可以啦。\n503291\t507844\t好,謝謝林楚茵委員來次長請會我們今天本委會安排的\n","txt":"謝謝主席,主席有請田政次來,田次林委員您早市長早今天開始之前我想先問個實事題好了就是不知道您有沒有看過這個現在在您的畫面當中右手邊的這個最新的民調就是這是一個從1992年就開始持續做的是由政大的選研中心所公布的\n就是認為自己是台灣人的部分呢逐年上升從一開始92年的只有17.6%現在來到這是今年2月公佈的喔有61.7%同樣的自己自認是中國人的部分是創了新低只有2.4%不知道您有沒有看過這個民調\n我多多少少有了解,隨著時間的提升,我們這個比例越來越大。好,為什麼我會特別問這個是,我想外交是我們主權的另外一個延伸。外交官們到國外去代表的就是我們中華民國,代表著台灣。有的時候這個定位定定,這個標,座標定對了,才能夠知道到底外交工作要如何來鞏固我們的主權。\n那麼我相信今天外交官走出去都會告訴大家說我是來自於中華民國沒有問題對不對台灣人講得很大聲台灣的民眾也以台灣為榮但是如果說接下來這個最新的訊息就是我們的馬前總統要去中國了\n那麼當他到了中國之後．他所釋出的訊息．跟現在最新的民調當中．沒什麼相同．甚至於在中間產生不同的時候．到底外交官在面對這些訊息的時候．該如何跟國際社會解釋馬英九最近要去中國．馬辦說台灣是中國的一部分\n然後馬英九也認為說九二共識他講的這個九二共識是不是習近平說的那一個只有一中而且沒有個表只有那個中華人民共和國的一中因為他說他在選前講了要相信習近平等於習近平說的話就算\n那麼我想就教這次的就是那如果這樣馬英九4月1號去了中國之後我們外交部如何把這樣的訊息跟國內61%6成以上的民眾認知如果相左我們要怎麼解釋我們釋出了什麼樣的訊息給國際社會\n中華民國從來就不是中華人民共和國的一部分這個是非常非常的清楚的所以我們在外交從事外交的這個立場我們非常非常清楚在國外我們推動臺灣的外交也是以這個基礎來做那麼我們本的是什麼呢本的是我們是民主\n自由、人權這非常重要的普世價值來推動我們的外交那我們來看看對岸是不是民主\n對岸是不是尊重人權．這個答案其實非常非常的明顯所以跟委員也報告不要擔心外交部外交部一定本這個原則去推動我們跟國際的外交部好因為我會特別提這個部分是因為你們過這些年來在國際上面面對中國許多外交上面的打壓是辛苦的他們的戰狼外交處處讓我們穿小鞋其實第一線的同仁外交同仁的辛苦我都知道\n但是如果說今天前總統到了中國去之後再更進一步的過去他只講說要相信習近平現在如果開始跟習近平手拉手的時候這樣的訊息是跟我們國內大家超過六成以上認為自己是台灣人的民眾是相違背的那麼我希望有這個民調讓你們做底氣在面對國際社會解釋的時候要講清楚不是現在他們所講的立法院\n新民意那麼就是要跟中國站在一起甚至於說臺灣是中國的一部分我希望這個數據拿出來而且是個最新的數據可以給外交同仁在第一線的時候更有底氣謝謝好另外一個要問的當然一個最新的訊息不知道說今天早上部長請假是不是因為去這個接見了這個來自於美國聯邦眾議院\n的軍事委員會其中呢情報暨特別作戰小組的主席博格曼現在人在昨天已經抵達了台灣這樣的一個軍委會來台灣其實大家想要了解是他背後的訊息又是什麼因為今天剛好我們的報告也提到了那麼接下來大概就是拜登跟川普再度的二度對決那麼尤其選在520之前來台灣又代表的是什麼樣的訊息呢包括我們也看到了美國\n2024年他們的快進年度的這個撥款計劃其中竟然他們政府內部為了讓政府可以運作的這樣的一個撥款計劃也讓台灣包含其中因為時間有限所以我是不是可以讓這次讓大家跟大家說明一下到底這一次的這種情報暨特種作戰小組來台他代表什麼樣的意涵以及對未來對台灣以及台美之間有什麼影響\n其實我們翻開過去美國不論是民主黨、共和黨的議員來台灣身份都有非常多那麼台灣跟美國基本上就是民主聯盟的一份子所以有各式各樣的委員會來台灣來表達一個支持、跨黨派的支持所以說我認為有情報及特種作戰小組來這裡也不足為奇在再次表達對台灣的一個支持\n只是就是所謂的臺美或者是臺海或甚至印太地區的合作臺灣是堅強的一份子那麼這個是不會改變的也無論說接下來他們的大選結果有什麼不同因為對他們的國家戰略來說臺灣就是重要的一份子是這個意思嗎確實\n好但是呢我們看到就像剛剛我延續的馬英九故意選在520之前去中國甚至於會見所謂的老朋友身為一個總前總統但是卻說台灣是中國的一部分非常的奇怪那麼是不是他們也擔憂台灣內部的一些政治上的變化所以也來這裡瞭解一下台灣內部的狀況呢\n我是指美國的這個訪問團我認為這個訪問團跟馬前總統去中國與否並沒有直接的關係我們退一步講如果說馬總統今天沒有去這個訪問團還是會來表達一個支持的立場所以這個部分其實對台灣來講在國際來講台灣的形象也非常非常的重要非常非常的肯定\n好,所以對於這個報告當中特別提到不論是川普或是拜登在印太戰略當中其實他們的目標都是一致的那麼其實在這個選舉當中我還記得王定宇、趙偉當時在成立台灣跟美國的國會聯誼會那麼我們的未來的蕭美琴副總統也曾經講過了這是別人在國會上面的一些選舉的過程當中但是台灣站在一個跟美國重要的戰略夥伴當中的這個\n有疑關係是不變的那麼對於外交部來說怎麼樣來做現在接下來美國的選舉的情勢的評估剛才在報告中也跟大院的委員做一次報告其實臺美的關係非常非常的深厚我們有臺灣關係法我們有六項保證這都是我們非常堅強的機制所以說今天他\n好,謝謝。那你要繼續也可以啦。\n好,謝謝林楚茵委員來次長請會我們今天本委會安排的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.542 --> 00:28.386\n謝謝主席,主席有請田政次來,田次林委員您早市長早今天開始之前我想先問個實事題好了就是不知道您有沒有看過這個現在在您的畫面當中右手邊的這個最新的民調就是這是一個從1992年就開始持續做的是由政大的選研中心所公布的\n\n00:28.786 --> 00:45.355\n就是認為自己是台灣人的部分呢逐年上升從一開始92年的只有17.6%現在來到這是今年2月公佈的喔有61.7%同樣的自己自認是中國人的部分是創了新低只有2.4%不知道您有沒有看過這個民調\n\n00:47.118 --> 01:10.707\n我多多少少有了解,隨著時間的提升,我們這個比例越來越大。好,為什麼我會特別問這個是,我想外交是我們主權的另外一個延伸。外交官們到國外去代表的就是我們中華民國,代表著台灣。有的時候這個定位定定,這個標,座標定對了,才能夠知道到底外交工作要如何來鞏固我們的主權。\n\n01:11.647 --> 01:17.713\n那麼我相信今天外交官走出去都會告訴大家說我是來自於中華民國沒有問題對不對台灣人講得很大聲台灣的民眾也以台灣為榮但是如果說接下來這個最新的訊息就是我們的馬前總統要去中國了\n\n01:29.284 --> 01:49.694\n那麼當他到了中國之後．他所釋出的訊息．跟現在最新的民調當中．沒什麼相同．甚至於在中間產生不同的時候．到底外交官在面對這些訊息的時候．該如何跟國際社會解釋馬英九最近要去中國．馬辦說台灣是中國的一部分\n\n01:52.555 --> 02:07.335\n然後馬英九也認為說九二共識他講的這個九二共識是不是習近平說的那一個只有一中而且沒有個表只有那個中華人民共和國的一中因為他說他在選前講了要相信習近平等於習近平說的話就算\n\n02:08.456 --> 02:24.744\n那麼我想就教這次的就是那如果這樣馬英九4月1號去了中國之後我們外交部如何把這樣的訊息跟國內61%6成以上的民眾認知如果相左我們要怎麼解釋我們釋出了什麼樣的訊息給國際社會\n\n02:30.752 --> 02:52.838\n中華民國從來就不是中華人民共和國的一部分這個是非常非常的清楚的所以我們在外交從事外交的這個立場我們非常非常清楚在國外我們推動臺灣的外交也是以這個基礎來做那麼我們本的是什麼呢本的是我們是民主\n\n02:53.678 --> 03:00.928\n自由、人權這非常重要的普世價值來推動我們的外交那我們來看看對岸是不是民主\n\n03:02.097 --> 03:30.205\n對岸是不是尊重人權．這個答案其實非常非常的明顯所以跟委員也報告不要擔心外交部外交部一定本這個原則去推動我們跟國際的外交部好因為我會特別提這個部分是因為你們過這些年來在國際上面面對中國許多外交上面的打壓是辛苦的他們的戰狼外交處處讓我們穿小鞋其實第一線的同仁外交同仁的辛苦我都知道\n\n03:30.845 --> 03:43.455\n但是如果說今天前總統到了中國去之後再更進一步的過去他只講說要相信習近平現在如果開始跟習近平手拉手的時候這樣的訊息是跟我們國內大家超過六成以上認為自己是台灣人的民眾是相違背的那麼我希望有這個民調讓你們做底氣在面對國際社會解釋的時候要講清楚不是現在他們所講的立法院\n\n04:00.247 --> 04:22.136\n新民意那麼就是要跟中國站在一起甚至於說臺灣是中國的一部分我希望這個數據拿出來而且是個最新的數據可以給外交同仁在第一線的時候更有底氣謝謝好另外一個要問的當然一個最新的訊息不知道說今天早上部長請假是不是因為去這個接見了這個來自於美國聯邦眾議院\n\n04:23.877 --> 04:53.197\n的軍事委員會其中呢情報暨特別作戰小組的主席博格曼現在人在昨天已經抵達了台灣這樣的一個軍委會來台灣其實大家想要了解是他背後的訊息又是什麼因為今天剛好我們的報告也提到了那麼接下來大概就是拜登跟川普再度的二度對決那麼尤其選在520之前來台灣又代表的是什麼樣的訊息呢包括我們也看到了美國\n\n04:54.997 --> 05:13.825\n2024年他們的快進年度的這個撥款計劃其中竟然他們政府內部為了讓政府可以運作的這樣的一個撥款計劃也讓台灣包含其中因為時間有限所以我是不是可以讓這次讓大家跟大家說明一下到底這一次的這種情報暨特種作戰小組來台他代表什麼樣的意涵以及對未來對台灣以及台美之間有什麼影響\n\n05:21.488 --> 05:49.754\n其實我們翻開過去美國不論是民主黨、共和黨的議員來台灣身份都有非常多那麼台灣跟美國基本上就是民主聯盟的一份子所以有各式各樣的委員會來台灣來表達一個支持、跨黨派的支持所以說我認為有情報及特種作戰小組來這裡也不足為奇在再次表達對台灣的一個支持\n\n05:50.273 --> 05:56.861\n只是就是所謂的臺美或者是臺海或甚至印太地區的合作臺灣是堅強的一份子那麼這個是不會改變的也無論說接下來他們的大選結果有什麼不同因為對他們的國家戰略來說臺灣就是重要的一份子是這個意思嗎確實\n\n06:08.314 --> 06:29.415\n好但是呢我們看到就像剛剛我延續的馬英九故意選在520之前去中國甚至於會見所謂的老朋友身為一個總前總統但是卻說台灣是中國的一部分非常的奇怪那麼是不是他們也擔憂台灣內部的一些政治上的變化所以也來這裡瞭解一下台灣內部的狀況呢\n\n06:31.036 --> 06:57.094\n我是指美國的這個訪問團我認為這個訪問團跟馬前總統去中國與否並沒有直接的關係我們退一步講如果說馬總統今天沒有去這個訪問團還是會來表達一個支持的立場所以這個部分其實對台灣來講在國際來講台灣的形象也非常非常的重要非常非常的肯定\n\n06:57.810 --> 07:13.239\n好,所以對於這個報告當中特別提到不論是川普或是拜登在印太戰略當中其實他們的目標都是一致的那麼其實在這個選舉當中我還記得王定宇、趙偉當時在成立台灣跟美國的國會聯誼會那麼我們的未來的蕭美琴副總統也曾經講過了這是別人在國會上面的一些選舉的過程當中但是台灣站在一個跟美國重要的戰略夥伴當中的這個\n\n07:26.167 --> 07:34.254\n有疑關係是不變的那麼對於外交部來說怎麼樣來做現在接下來美國的選舉的情勢的評估剛才在報告中也跟大院的委員做一次報告其實臺美的關係非常非常的深厚我們有臺灣關係法我們有六項保證這都是我們非常堅強的機制所以說今天他\n\n07:52.611 --> 07:53.731\n好,謝謝。那你要繼續也可以啦。\n\n08:23.291 --> 08:27.844\n好,謝謝林楚茵委員來次長請會我們今天本委會安排的\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.542,"end":28.386,"text":"謝謝主席,主席有請田政次來,田次林委員您早市長早今天開始之前我想先問個實事題好了就是不知道您有沒有看過這個現在在您的畫面當中右手邊的這個最新的民調就是這是一個從1992年就開始持續做的是由政大的選研中心所公布的"},{"start":28.786,"end":45.355,"text":"就是認為自己是台灣人的部分呢逐年上升從一開始92年的只有17.6%現在來到這是今年2月公佈的喔有61.7%同樣的自己自認是中國人的部分是創了新低只有2.4%不知道您有沒有看過這個民調"},{"start":47.118,"end":70.707,"text":"我多多少少有了解,隨著時間的提升,我們這個比例越來越大。好,為什麼我會特別問這個是,我想外交是我們主權的另外一個延伸。外交官們到國外去代表的就是我們中華民國,代表著台灣。有的時候這個定位定定,這個標,座標定對了,才能夠知道到底外交工作要如何來鞏固我們的主權。"},{"start":71.647,"end":77.713,"text":"那麼我相信今天外交官走出去都會告訴大家說我是來自於中華民國沒有問題對不對台灣人講得很大聲台灣的民眾也以台灣為榮但是如果說接下來這個最新的訊息就是我們的馬前總統要去中國了"},{"start":89.284,"end":109.694,"text":"那麼當他到了中國之後．他所釋出的訊息．跟現在最新的民調當中．沒什麼相同．甚至於在中間產生不同的時候．到底外交官在面對這些訊息的時候．該如何跟國際社會解釋馬英九最近要去中國．馬辦說台灣是中國的一部分"},{"start":112.555,"end":127.335,"text":"然後馬英九也認為說九二共識他講的這個九二共識是不是習近平說的那一個只有一中而且沒有個表只有那個中華人民共和國的一中因為他說他在選前講了要相信習近平等於習近平說的話就算"},{"start":128.456,"end":144.744,"text":"那麼我想就教這次的就是那如果這樣馬英九4月1號去了中國之後我們外交部如何把這樣的訊息跟國內61%6成以上的民眾認知如果相左我們要怎麼解釋我們釋出了什麼樣的訊息給國際社會"},{"start":150.752,"end":172.838,"text":"中華民國從來就不是中華人民共和國的一部分這個是非常非常的清楚的所以我們在外交從事外交的這個立場我們非常非常清楚在國外我們推動臺灣的外交也是以這個基礎來做那麼我們本的是什麼呢本的是我們是民主"},{"start":173.678,"end":180.928,"text":"自由、人權這非常重要的普世價值來推動我們的外交那我們來看看對岸是不是民主"},{"start":182.097,"end":210.205,"text":"對岸是不是尊重人權．這個答案其實非常非常的明顯所以跟委員也報告不要擔心外交部外交部一定本這個原則去推動我們跟國際的外交部好因為我會特別提這個部分是因為你們過這些年來在國際上面面對中國許多外交上面的打壓是辛苦的他們的戰狼外交處處讓我們穿小鞋其實第一線的同仁外交同仁的辛苦我都知道"},{"start":210.845,"end":223.455,"text":"但是如果說今天前總統到了中國去之後再更進一步的過去他只講說要相信習近平現在如果開始跟習近平手拉手的時候這樣的訊息是跟我們國內大家超過六成以上認為自己是台灣人的民眾是相違背的那麼我希望有這個民調讓你們做底氣在面對國際社會解釋的時候要講清楚不是現在他們所講的立法院"},{"start":240.247,"end":262.136,"text":"新民意那麼就是要跟中國站在一起甚至於說臺灣是中國的一部分我希望這個數據拿出來而且是個最新的數據可以給外交同仁在第一線的時候更有底氣謝謝好另外一個要問的當然一個最新的訊息不知道說今天早上部長請假是不是因為去這個接見了這個來自於美國聯邦眾議院"},{"start":263.877,"end":293.197,"text":"的軍事委員會其中呢情報暨特別作戰小組的主席博格曼現在人在昨天已經抵達了台灣這樣的一個軍委會來台灣其實大家想要了解是他背後的訊息又是什麼因為今天剛好我們的報告也提到了那麼接下來大概就是拜登跟川普再度的二度對決那麼尤其選在520之前來台灣又代表的是什麼樣的訊息呢包括我們也看到了美國"},{"start":294.997,"end":313.825,"text":"2024年他們的快進年度的這個撥款計劃其中竟然他們政府內部為了讓政府可以運作的這樣的一個撥款計劃也讓台灣包含其中因為時間有限所以我是不是可以讓這次讓大家跟大家說明一下到底這一次的這種情報暨特種作戰小組來台他代表什麼樣的意涵以及對未來對台灣以及台美之間有什麼影響"},{"start":321.488,"end":349.754,"text":"其實我們翻開過去美國不論是民主黨、共和黨的議員來台灣身份都有非常多那麼台灣跟美國基本上就是民主聯盟的一份子所以有各式各樣的委員會來台灣來表達一個支持、跨黨派的支持所以說我認為有情報及特種作戰小組來這裡也不足為奇在再次表達對台灣的一個支持"},{"start":350.273,"end":356.861,"text":"只是就是所謂的臺美或者是臺海或甚至印太地區的合作臺灣是堅強的一份子那麼這個是不會改變的也無論說接下來他們的大選結果有什麼不同因為對他們的國家戰略來說臺灣就是重要的一份子是這個意思嗎確實"},{"start":368.314,"end":389.415,"text":"好但是呢我們看到就像剛剛我延續的馬英九故意選在520之前去中國甚至於會見所謂的老朋友身為一個總前總統但是卻說台灣是中國的一部分非常的奇怪那麼是不是他們也擔憂台灣內部的一些政治上的變化所以也來這裡瞭解一下台灣內部的狀況呢"},{"start":391.036,"end":417.094,"text":"我是指美國的這個訪問團我認為這個訪問團跟馬前總統去中國與否並沒有直接的關係我們退一步講如果說馬總統今天沒有去這個訪問團還是會來表達一個支持的立場所以這個部分其實對台灣來講在國際來講台灣的形象也非常非常的重要非常非常的肯定"},{"start":417.81,"end":433.239,"text":"好,所以對於這個報告當中特別提到不論是川普或是拜登在印太戰略當中其實他們的目標都是一致的那麼其實在這個選舉當中我還記得王定宇、趙偉當時在成立台灣跟美國的國會聯誼會那麼我們的未來的蕭美琴副總統也曾經講過了這是別人在國會上面的一些選舉的過程當中但是台灣站在一個跟美國重要的戰略夥伴當中的這個"},{"start":446.167,"end":454.254,"text":"有疑關係是不變的那麼對於外交部來說怎麼樣來做現在接下來美國的選舉的情勢的評估剛才在報告中也跟大院的委員做一次報告其實臺美的關係非常非常的深厚我們有臺灣關係法我們有六項保證這都是我們非常堅強的機制所以說今天他"},{"start":472.611,"end":473.731,"text":"好,謝謝。那你要繼續也可以啦。"},{"start":503.291,"end":507.844,"text":"好,謝謝林楚茵委員來次長請會我們今天本委會安排的"}]}}}}