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09:33:56","影片長度":"00:10:02","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。（3月27日及28日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-5"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":602,"end_time":"2024-03-28T09:33:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T09:23:54+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":103,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時24分）謝謝召委，我們是不是請主委？"],["主席：有請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：柯委員早。"],["柯委員志恩：主委早。我上次來這邊質詢提出有關核安問題的時候，那時候是原能會，現在是核安會，我可不可以請在場的、所有你帶領的這些所謂的同仁，目前為止哪一位是跟清大核工系背景有關的，請舉手一下好嗎？你看一排，其實這是一個正常的現象，因為主委是來自於一個土木的結構，所以他信誓旦旦、不斷地在洪孟楷委員問他有關核能的問題，他完全把他轉到，我想跟每個人背景有關，我們就一一來去看背景的不同會造成我們提問很大的不同。我們先來看一下，我延續剛剛孟楷委員的一個說法，因為所謂核能的問題幾乎是總統大選的必考題，所以大家就聚焦在核廢料怎麼處理，我們先一一來去看，賴清德說可能會有緊急使用核能的可能，我單刀直入問一下，我先不管民進黨會不會放掉他們廢核的神主牌，或許未來可能還有再重啟。請問如果賴總統他可能說要讓我們已經停機的核能機組維持在一個未來可用的緊急狀況之下，目前規劃是這樣，我們往下來看，如果這是一個事實的話，我請問有關延役的執照是必須在有效期間屆滿前5年到15年提出申請，是不是這個法一定要做一個修正以備緊急使用的時候要用？如果說是5到10年，這個法是完全沒有辦法配合賴總統所提到的。"],["陳主任委員東陽：跟柯委員報告，5到15年其實這個規定也沿襲美國NRC核管會相關的規定……"],["柯委員志恩：來，我們往下看一下……"],["陳主任委員東陽：主要是……"],["柯委員志恩：但是對不起喔！召委，因為我們的主委速度比較慢，你跟我大概1比3的速度，所以我們就還是大家互相調配，加起來除以2剛剛好好不好？所以你剛剛說根據美國NRC的標準，但是美國之前已經把目標放在22個月，現在已經改進到18個月，你要除役已經不像過去一樣，這是我要提供給主委的，所以是不是需要那麼長？如果並不需要那麼長的話，我們的法規勢必要做一個修正，這才是世界的趨勢，瞭解嗎？所以這就是一個事實，呈現在這個地方。我們往下來去看，如果是這樣子的話，我還是接下來去問，因為你看核一廠，大概從他們提出來，然後你要提出到台電，然後送給你們，然後做環評，大概要4年左右的時間；核二廠目前為止，進度到哪裡了？4年超過了；核三廠也是，目前進度到哪裡？已經經過環評，送到你們這邊來了嗎？送到你們核安委員會了嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核二廠除役審查通過，但是環評還沒有獲得許可。"],["柯委員志恩：台電告訴我說已經拿到環境部的除役許可的環評報告，主委，你真的應該要掌握訊息，這是台電說的。"],["陳主任委員東陽：我完全掌握訊息。"],["柯委員志恩：是，但是現在……"],["陳主任委員東陽：環境許可的程序還沒有完全完成，主要的原因是有些範圍……"],["柯委員志恩：這邊，我已經看出來了……"],["陳主任委員東陽：還需要一些界定……"],["柯委員志恩：對，沒錯，因為還有廠界爭議，管範到海邊，牽涉到民間墓地的部分，所以環評已經送過來，但你們沒有辦法。我請問，我真的是不禁要懷疑，如果你認為除役是這麼樣地重要，要配合2025的非核家園的話，以民進黨政府的這個作法，藻礁不管環評怎麼樣去說，它要做就是可以做，我真的是有點懷疑它是技術性地在延宕核二的除役作業，讓它保留一個空間，你同意嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個要問台電跟經濟部，我沒有辦法回應這個問題。"],["柯委員志恩：所以主委，你還是用你的土木的結構問題來告訴我，我負責好那一塊安全就好，其實不是的，這是一個整個的、我們的一個大環境的部分，我只告訴你，我澈底地懷疑透過這個方式裡面在延宕。來，我們往下來看，而且我也非常關心，我那個時候、5年前站在這個地方，我不斷地問到的中期暫貯，就是牽涉到核廢料的問題，我們現在不要談到最終貯存場，我們只提到一個中期，有關於核廢的規劃進度，目前的處理方法，行政院的態度是非常消極的，因為我們有一個非核家園的推動小組，沒錯吧？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["柯委員志恩：之前你看看，它就要求要提出貯存場，並且提出構想，你看，3次會議、4次會議不斷地要求低放射線的、高放射線的，對不對？而且有10萬噸的低放射線的部分，給我們一個中期貯存場，一連串的開會開到，拜託，都要求你們提出一個選址的方案等等之類，請問一下目前進度到哪裡？開到第6次，竟然告訴大家不要讓核四公投流於政黨對決，非核家園怎麼在討論這樣的問題？我只請問這個問題到底到哪裡了？核料問題的中期貯存目前為止是到什麼地方了？"],["陳主任委員東陽：中期貯存設施目前還沒有非常具體的進展。"],["柯委員志恩：所以已經從2018，你是不是要質疑一下非核家園的推動小組目前都在幹什麼？從那個時候一直提提提，提到現在，什麼時候開第7次會議？主委，什麼時候開第7次會議？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個是行政院非核小組的推動小組在安排，我們會裡面其實有在112年有主動來……"],["柯委員志恩：然後呢？我只請問主委，你知不知道什麼時候是第7次？已經從2018到現在，開了7次會議都完全無效，而且第6次到現在已經3年沒有開了，我都不曉得行政院的非核家園小組都在幹什麼，這麼一件重要的事情，我真的為我們現在的賴清德總統覺得很不值，在法務部的部分，他已經把38個死刑犯留給賴清德，現在你們還要把所謂的廢核場址留給賴清德，我真的不曉得他該怎麼來當這個總統，我只問第7次會議在什麼地方？你也沒辦法替非核家園來回答，對不對？主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：這是行政院在召開。"],["柯委員志恩：你們難道沒辦法主動嗎？大家從過去到現在一直不斷關切，所以這可能跟你們降到第三級有關，你們真的沒有太多發語權，以前原能會可能還有辦法更積極一點，我們再接下去看，因為我的時間非常有限。","剛剛已經很多人提到，你認為核融合是綠電嗎？目前為止臺灣的核融合技術，你認為只停留在基礎的研究範圍嗎？我們只花了3,500萬，對不對？以這個技術來說，美國跟其他西歐先進國家認為要核融合的部分，我們的錢、我們的研發費用是遠遠不如。上次問到中研院，他們也積極希望能在未來十年達到所謂的核融合商轉目標，你用學者的判斷，你認為有可能嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：未來十年還是有一些挑戰，全世界前沿的研究團隊其實投入大量的資源在做這個，但是我們國內在這個地方還是起步的階段。"],["柯委員志恩：是。"],["陳主任委員東陽：國科會的這個計畫是一個整合型計畫，其實是相對的基礎研究，在做人才培育……"],["柯委員志恩：所以我們距離別人真的還是遙遠，剛剛看到你的預算編列，還有包括你們整個層級的降低，再包括你們對很多事情的看法，目前為止，我對於有沒有辦法跟世界接軌的確是畫上一個非常大的問號。最後的時間，我要回到我剛剛一剛開始問的清大核工的部分，它主導整個臺灣的核能安全，我想在座有很多人的學生可能都還在這個領域當中，但是我們對於核工人才的規劃，我真的是為清大核工的這一批優秀人才感到不值，為什麼？因為我們整個能源政策的關係，對於核工人才，連我們教育部的公費留學都沒有核工的系所，這是何等重要！不管是核融合、不管是核電安全、不管是任何的方法，都應該用這些優秀的人才去做，核工的人轉到美國去，目前為止身價大好，在他們65歲的時候身價大好，因為核能已經變成世界發展的趨勢。","結果你看看我們，不僅是改名改姓，如果有機會唸到這個博士班，他說以民進黨目前廢核的方法，即使唸到博士班也只能去看守核廢料而已，這是我們對待優秀人才的方式，這邊一排清大核工畢業的優秀人才，你們覺得只甘於如此嗎？如果不甘於如此的話，你不覺得你應該要提出更大的建言嗎？這麼好的部分、這麼延續的部分，雖然主委你是土木系的，但是你既然在這個位子上，不要一天到晚用非常保守的方法告訴我安全、安全，核工系難道不討論安全嗎？他們自己就在核電廠裡面工作，他們在第一線能不感受到安全嗎？這才是本席今天要告訴你的，核能問題是總統的必選考題，但你們應該要有更積極的作為，因為你們都是學者專家，你們的提問可以有辦法去做到最大的部分。"],["陳主任委員東陽：我跟柯委員報告，我完全同意柯委員的想法，人才培育包含核工、核子物理的人才都非常需要，事實上我在會裡面也有提出相關的方案，我在這裡不做一些贅述。"],["柯委員志恩：我希望主委既然在這個位子上，請好好為了我們的核能、核工人才，那是我們臺灣未來能源最大的希望，好嗎？謝謝。"],["陳主任委員東陽：一定的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員。","我們再來請萬美玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","范雲","羅智強","李坤城","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","吳春城","林倩綺"],"page_start":323,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132201_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"150562","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150562","tool":"pyannote","id":"150562-pyannote"},"job_id":"nLPpulrgQEuKMLbk","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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00:01:21,695\n如果賴總統他可能說要讓我們已經停機的核能機組維持在一個未來可用的緊急狀況之下目前規劃是這樣我們往下來看那如果這是一個事實的話那我請問有關研議的執照是必須在有效的屆滿了5年到15年提出申請那是不是這個法一定要做一個修正以備緊急使用的時候要用如果說是5到10年這是這個法是完全沒有辦法配合賴總統所提到的\n\n5\n00:01:46,598 --> 00:01:57,272\n5至15年其實這個規定也沿襲美國NRC核管會相關的規定\n\n6\n00:02:02,957 --> 00:02:25,161\n主委的聲音速度比較慢你跟我大概1比3的速度所以我們就還是大家互相調配加起來除以2剛剛好好不好所以你剛剛說根據美國NRC的標準但是美國之前已經把目標放在22個月現在已經改進到18個月你要除以已經不像過去一樣這是我要提供給主委的\n\n7\n00:02:26,141 --> 00:02:26,261\n4年超過了\n\n8\n00:02:55,356 --> 00:03:01,191\n核三廠也是目前進度到哪裡已經經過環評送到你們這邊來了嗎送到你們的核安委員會了嗎\n\n9\n00:03:04,292 --> 00:03:29,452\n合廠除疫審查通過．但是環評還沒有獲得許可臺電告訴我說已經拿到環境部的除疫許可的環評報告主委你真的要掌握訊息這是臺電說的我掌握完全掌握訊息環境許可還沒有完全這個程序還沒有完全完成那主要的原因是\n\n10\n00:03:30,453 --> 00:03:30,493\n主席\n\n11\n00:04:00,453 --> 00:04:06,555\n這個要問台電跟經濟部我沒有辦法回應這個問題所以主委你還是用你的土木的這個結構問題來告訴我我只負責好那一塊安全就好其實不是的這是一個整個的我們的一個大環境的部分我只告訴你我徹底的懷疑透過這個方式裡面在延宕來我們往下來看而且我也非常關心那是我那個時候五年前站在這個地方我不斷的問到的中期戰衝就是\n\n12\n00:04:29,361 --> 00:04:44,350\n現在到核廢料的問題我們現在不要談到最終儲存場我們只提到一個中期有關於核廢的這個規劃的進度我們看下一張那目前的這個處理方法行政院的態度是非常的消極的因為我們有一個非核家運的推動小組沒錯吧\n\n13\n00:04:45,630 --> 00:04:54,660\n之前你看看他就要求要提出來這個儲存場並且提出構想你看三次會議四次會議不斷的要求低放射線的高放射線的對不對而且有10萬噸的這個低放射線這個部分給我們一個中期儲存場一連串的開會開到\n\n14\n00:05:03,109 --> 00:05:09,012\n拜託都要求你們提出一個選址的方案等等之類請問現在目前進度到哪裡開到第6次竟然來告訴大家不要讓核四公投留於政黨對決非核家園怎麼在討論這樣的問題我只請問這個問題到底到哪裡了核料問題的中期儲存目前為止是到什麼地方了\n\n15\n00:05:24,323 --> 00:05:38,338\n這個中期儲存設施目前還沒有非常具體的進展所以已經從2018你們非核你是不是要質疑一下非核家園的推動小組目前都在幹什麼從那個時候一直提提提到現在什麼時候開第7次會議主委什麼時候開第7次會議\n\n16\n00:05:42,305 --> 00:06:05,988\n這個是行政院在推動這個非核小組的推動小組在安排那麼我們會裡面呢其實有在112年有主動來然後呢我只要請問主委你知道什麼時候是第7次已經從2018到現在開的7次會議都完全無效而且第6次到現在已經3年沒有開了我都不曉得行政院的非核家園的小組都在幹什麼\n\n17\n00:06:06,909 --> 00:06:19,061\n這麼一個重要的事情所以我真的為我們現在的總統賴清德覺得很不值他在法務部的時候已經把38個這個死刑犯留給賴清德現在你們要把這個所謂的廢核的這個場子又留給賴清德我真不曉得他該怎麼來當這個總統我只問第7次會議在什麼地方\n\n18\n00:06:23,206 --> 00:06:50,798\n你也沒辦法替非核家園來回答對不對這個是行政院在召開所以說嘛那你們沒辦法主動嗎因為這大家從過去到現在一直不再關切所以這可能跟你們降級到第三級你們真的沒有太多的發語權以前原能會可能還有辦法更積極的我們再下來看因為我時間非常的有限所以你認為剛剛已經很多人提到了核融合式綠電嗎我們接下來看因為目前為止台灣的核融合技術你認為只停留在基礎的研究範圍嗎\n\n19\n00:06:52,578 --> 00:07:18,254\n因為我們只花了3500萬對不對這個技術裡面來說跟美國跟其他西歐親近的國家當他們認為要合融合的部分來說我們的價值我們的錢我們所研發的費用這是遠遠的不如所以呢我們的上次的問到中研院他們也積極希望能夠在未來十年當中能夠達到所謂合融的商轉目標你認為以你的判斷用學者的判斷你認為有可能嗎\n\n20\n00:07:19,574 --> 00:07:39,413\n未來10年還是有一些挑戰這個全世界前沿的研究團隊其實投入大量的資源在做這個但是我們國內在這個地方其實還是在起步的階段那麼國科會其實這個計畫是一個整合型計畫其實是相對的基礎研究\n\n21\n00:07:40,194 --> 00:07:40,654\n在座的蔡美玉\n\n22\n00:08:06,863 --> 00:08:06,923\n委員會主席\n\n23\n00:08:28,692 --> 00:08:28,872\n3月27日及28日\n\n24\n00:08:49,588 --> 00:08:49,648\n委員會主席\n\n25\n00:09:07,529 --> 00:09:35,796\n主委你雖然是土木系的但是你竟然在這個位置裏面不要一天到晚用非常保守的方法告訴我安全安全核能公司難道不討論安全嗎他們自己是在裏面的核電廠裏面來工作他們能夠不第一時間感受到安全嗎這才是本行今天告訴你核能的問題總統考題必選但是呢你們應該更有積極的作為因為你們都是學者專家你們的提問可有辦法來去做到這個最大的目的我跟科委員報告我完全同意科委員的想法\n\n26\n00:09:36,716 --> 00:09:59,803\n人才培育包含核工人才物理的核子物理的人才都是非常需要我在會裡面事實上也有提出相關的方案那我就在這裡不做一些贅述但是我希望主委竟然在這個位置上面請好好的為我們的核能核工人才耐事成我們台灣未來能源最大的希望好嗎謝謝一定的謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5428\t8589\t主委長,我上次來這邊提出有關核安問題的時候那時候是原能會,現在是核安會我會請在場的所有你帶領的這些所謂的同仁目前為止哪一位是跟清大核工系背景有關的請舉手一下好嗎\n31416\t50440\t你看一排其實這是一個正常的現象因為主委是來自於一個圖目的結構所以他信誓旦旦不斷的在當候孟凱委員問他有關核能的問題他完全把他轉到我想跟每個人背景有關我們就一一來去看這個背景的不同會造成我們提問的很大的一個不同我們先來看一下我延續剛剛孟凱委員的一個說法因為這個所謂的核能的問題就是總統大選的必考題\n56681\t57301\t李卓人議員\n75370\t81695\t如果賴總統他可能說要讓我們已經停機的核能機組維持在一個未來可用的緊急狀況之下目前規劃是這樣我們往下來看那如果這是一個事實的話那我請問有關研議的執照是必須在有效的屆滿了5年到15年提出申請那是不是這個法一定要做一個修正以備緊急使用的時候要用如果說是5到10年這是這個法是完全沒有辦法配合賴總統所提到的\n106598\t117272\t5至15年其實這個規定也沿襲美國NRC核管會相關的規定\n122957\t145161\t主委的聲音速度比較慢你跟我大概1比3的速度所以我們就還是大家互相調配加起來除以2剛剛好好不好所以你剛剛說根據美國NRC的標準但是美國之前已經把目標放在22個月現在已經改進到18個月你要除以已經不像過去一樣這是我要提供給主委的\n146141\t146261\t4年超過了\n175356\t181191\t核三廠也是目前進度到哪裡已經經過環評送到你們這邊來了嗎送到你們的核安委員會了嗎\n184292\t209452\t合廠除疫審查通過．但是環評還沒有獲得許可臺電告訴我說已經拿到環境部的除疫許可的環評報告主委你真的要掌握訊息這是臺電說的我掌握完全掌握訊息環境許可還沒有完全這個程序還沒有完全完成那主要的原因是\n210453\t210493\t主席\n240453\t246555\t這個要問台電跟經濟部我沒有辦法回應這個問題所以主委你還是用你的土木的這個結構問題來告訴我我只負責好那一塊安全就好其實不是的這是一個整個的我們的一個大環境的部分我只告訴你我徹底的懷疑透過這個方式裡面在延宕來我們往下來看而且我也非常關心那是我那個時候五年前站在這個地方我不斷的問到的中期戰衝就是\n269361\t284350\t現在到核廢料的問題我們現在不要談到最終儲存場我們只提到一個中期有關於核廢的這個規劃的進度我們看下一張那目前的這個處理方法行政院的態度是非常的消極的因為我們有一個非核家運的推動小組沒錯吧\n285630\t294660\t之前你看看他就要求要提出來這個儲存場並且提出構想你看三次會議四次會議不斷的要求低放射線的高放射線的對不對而且有10萬噸的這個低放射線這個部分給我們一個中期儲存場一連串的開會開到\n303109\t309012\t拜託都要求你們提出一個選址的方案等等之類請問現在目前進度到哪裡開到第6次竟然來告訴大家不要讓核四公投留於政黨對決非核家園怎麼在討論這樣的問題我只請問這個問題到底到哪裡了核料問題的中期儲存目前為止是到什麼地方了\n324323\t338338\t這個中期儲存設施目前還沒有非常具體的進展所以已經從2018你們非核你是不是要質疑一下非核家園的推動小組目前都在幹什麼從那個時候一直提提提到現在什麼時候開第7次會議主委什麼時候開第7次會議\n342305\t365988\t這個是行政院在推動這個非核小組的推動小組在安排那麼我們會裡面呢其實有在112年有主動來然後呢我只要請問主委你知道什麼時候是第7次已經從2018到現在開的7次會議都完全無效而且第6次到現在已經3年沒有開了我都不曉得行政院的非核家園的小組都在幹什麼\n366909\t379061\t這麼一個重要的事情所以我真的為我們現在的總統賴清德覺得很不值他在法務部的時候已經把38個這個死刑犯留給賴清德現在你們要把這個所謂的廢核的這個場子又留給賴清德我真不曉得他該怎麼來當這個總統我只問第7次會議在什麼地方\n383206\t410798\t你也沒辦法替非核家園來回答對不對這個是行政院在召開所以說嘛那你們沒辦法主動嗎因為這大家從過去到現在一直不再關切所以這可能跟你們降級到第三級你們真的沒有太多的發語權以前原能會可能還有辦法更積極的我們再下來看因為我時間非常的有限所以你認為剛剛已經很多人提到了核融合式綠電嗎我們接下來看因為目前為止台灣的核融合技術你認為只停留在基礎的研究範圍嗎\n412578\t438254\t因為我們只花了3500萬對不對這個技術裡面來說跟美國跟其他西歐親近的國家當他們認為要合融合的部分來說我們的價值我們的錢我們所研發的費用這是遠遠的不如所以呢我們的上次的問到中研院他們也積極希望能夠在未來十年當中能夠達到所謂合融的商轉目標你認為以你的判斷用學者的判斷你認為有可能嗎\n439574\t459413\t未來10年還是有一些挑戰這個全世界前沿的研究團隊其實投入大量的資源在做這個但是我們國內在這個地方其實還是在起步的階段那麼國科會其實這個計畫是一個整合型計畫其實是相對的基礎研究\n460194\t460654\t在座的蔡美玉\n486863\t486923\t委員會主席\n508692\t508872\t3月27日及28日\n529588\t529648\t委員會主席\n547529\t575796\t主委你雖然是土木系的但是你竟然在這個位置裏面不要一天到晚用非常保守的方法告訴我安全安全核能公司難道不討論安全嗎他們自己是在裏面的核電廠裏面來工作他們能夠不第一時間感受到安全嗎這才是本行今天告訴你核能的問題總統考題必選但是呢你們應該更有積極的作為因為你們都是學者專家你們的提問可有辦法來去做到這個最大的目的我跟科委員報告我完全同意科委員的想法\n576716\t599803\t人才培育包含核工人才物理的核子物理的人才都是非常需要我在會裡面事實上也有提出相關的方案那我就在這裡不做一些贅述但是我希望主委竟然在這個位置上面請好好的為我們的核能核工人才耐事成我們台灣未來能源最大的希望好嗎謝謝一定的謝謝\n","txt":"主委長,我上次來這邊提出有關核安問題的時候那時候是原能會,現在是核安會我會請在場的所有你帶領的這些所謂的同仁目前為止哪一位是跟清大核工系背景有關的請舉手一下好嗎\n你看一排其實這是一個正常的現象因為主委是來自於一個圖目的結構所以他信誓旦旦不斷的在當候孟凱委員問他有關核能的問題他完全把他轉到我想跟每個人背景有關我們就一一來去看這個背景的不同會造成我們提問的很大的一個不同我們先來看一下我延續剛剛孟凱委員的一個說法因為這個所謂的核能的問題就是總統大選的必考題\n李卓人議員\n如果賴總統他可能說要讓我們已經停機的核能機組維持在一個未來可用的緊急狀況之下目前規劃是這樣我們往下來看那如果這是一個事實的話那我請問有關研議的執照是必須在有效的屆滿了5年到15年提出申請那是不是這個法一定要做一個修正以備緊急使用的時候要用如果說是5到10年這是這個法是完全沒有辦法配合賴總統所提到的\n5至15年其實這個規定也沿襲美國NRC核管會相關的規定\n主委的聲音速度比較慢你跟我大概1比3的速度所以我們就還是大家互相調配加起來除以2剛剛好好不好所以你剛剛說根據美國NRC的標準但是美國之前已經把目標放在22個月現在已經改進到18個月你要除以已經不像過去一樣這是我要提供給主委的\n4年超過了\n核三廠也是目前進度到哪裡已經經過環評送到你們這邊來了嗎送到你們的核安委員會了嗎\n合廠除疫審查通過．但是環評還沒有獲得許可臺電告訴我說已經拿到環境部的除疫許可的環評報告主委你真的要掌握訊息這是臺電說的我掌握完全掌握訊息環境許可還沒有完全這個程序還沒有完全完成那主要的原因是\n主席\n這個要問台電跟經濟部我沒有辦法回應這個問題所以主委你還是用你的土木的這個結構問題來告訴我我只負責好那一塊安全就好其實不是的這是一個整個的我們的一個大環境的部分我只告訴你我徹底的懷疑透過這個方式裡面在延宕來我們往下來看而且我也非常關心那是我那個時候五年前站在這個地方我不斷的問到的中期戰衝就是\n現在到核廢料的問題我們現在不要談到最終儲存場我們只提到一個中期有關於核廢的這個規劃的進度我們看下一張那目前的這個處理方法行政院的態度是非常的消極的因為我們有一個非核家運的推動小組沒錯吧\n之前你看看他就要求要提出來這個儲存場並且提出構想你看三次會議四次會議不斷的要求低放射線的高放射線的對不對而且有10萬噸的這個低放射線這個部分給我們一個中期儲存場一連串的開會開到\n拜託都要求你們提出一個選址的方案等等之類請問現在目前進度到哪裡開到第6次竟然來告訴大家不要讓核四公投留於政黨對決非核家園怎麼在討論這樣的問題我只請問這個問題到底到哪裡了核料問題的中期儲存目前為止是到什麼地方了\n這個中期儲存設施目前還沒有非常具體的進展所以已經從2018你們非核你是不是要質疑一下非核家園的推動小組目前都在幹什麼從那個時候一直提提提到現在什麼時候開第7次會議主委什麼時候開第7次會議\n這個是行政院在推動這個非核小組的推動小組在安排那麼我們會裡面呢其實有在112年有主動來然後呢我只要請問主委你知道什麼時候是第7次已經從2018到現在開的7次會議都完全無效而且第6次到現在已經3年沒有開了我都不曉得行政院的非核家園的小組都在幹什麼\n這麼一個重要的事情所以我真的為我們現在的總統賴清德覺得很不值他在法務部的時候已經把38個這個死刑犯留給賴清德現在你們要把這個所謂的廢核的這個場子又留給賴清德我真不曉得他該怎麼來當這個總統我只問第7次會議在什麼地方\n你也沒辦法替非核家園來回答對不對這個是行政院在召開所以說嘛那你們沒辦法主動嗎因為這大家從過去到現在一直不再關切所以這可能跟你們降級到第三級你們真的沒有太多的發語權以前原能會可能還有辦法更積極的我們再下來看因為我時間非常的有限所以你認為剛剛已經很多人提到了核融合式綠電嗎我們接下來看因為目前為止台灣的核融合技術你認為只停留在基礎的研究範圍嗎\n因為我們只花了3500萬對不對這個技術裡面來說跟美國跟其他西歐親近的國家當他們認為要合融合的部分來說我們的價值我們的錢我們所研發的費用這是遠遠的不如所以呢我們的上次的問到中研院他們也積極希望能夠在未來十年當中能夠達到所謂合融的商轉目標你認為以你的判斷用學者的判斷你認為有可能嗎\n未來10年還是有一些挑戰這個全世界前沿的研究團隊其實投入大量的資源在做這個但是我們國內在這個地方其實還是在起步的階段那麼國科會其實這個計畫是一個整合型計畫其實是相對的基礎研究\n在座的蔡美玉\n委員會主席\n3月27日及28日\n委員會主席\n主委你雖然是土木系的但是你竟然在這個位置裏面不要一天到晚用非常保守的方法告訴我安全安全核能公司難道不討論安全嗎他們自己是在裏面的核電廠裏面來工作他們能夠不第一時間感受到安全嗎這才是本行今天告訴你核能的問題總統考題必選但是呢你們應該更有積極的作為因為你們都是學者專家你們的提問可有辦法來去做到這個最大的目的我跟科委員報告我完全同意科委員的想法\n人才培育包含核工人才物理的核子物理的人才都是非常需要我在會裡面事實上也有提出相關的方案那我就在這裡不做一些贅述但是我希望主委竟然在這個位置上面請好好的為我們的核能核工人才耐事成我們台灣未來能源最大的希望好嗎謝謝一定的謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.428 --> 00:08.589\n主委長,我上次來這邊提出有關核安問題的時候那時候是原能會,現在是核安會我會請在場的所有你帶領的這些所謂的同仁目前為止哪一位是跟清大核工系背景有關的請舉手一下好嗎\n\n00:31.416 --> 00:50.440\n你看一排其實這是一個正常的現象因為主委是來自於一個圖目的結構所以他信誓旦旦不斷的在當候孟凱委員問他有關核能的問題他完全把他轉到我想跟每個人背景有關我們就一一來去看這個背景的不同會造成我們提問的很大的一個不同我們先來看一下我延續剛剛孟凱委員的一個說法因為這個所謂的核能的問題就是總統大選的必考題\n\n00:56.681 --> 00:57.301\n李卓人議員\n\n01:15.370 --> 01:21.695\n如果賴總統他可能說要讓我們已經停機的核能機組維持在一個未來可用的緊急狀況之下目前規劃是這樣我們往下來看那如果這是一個事實的話那我請問有關研議的執照是必須在有效的屆滿了5年到15年提出申請那是不是這個法一定要做一個修正以備緊急使用的時候要用如果說是5到10年這是這個法是完全沒有辦法配合賴總統所提到的\n\n01:46.598 --> 01:57.272\n5至15年其實這個規定也沿襲美國NRC核管會相關的規定\n\n02:02.957 --> 02:25.161\n主委的聲音速度比較慢你跟我大概1比3的速度所以我們就還是大家互相調配加起來除以2剛剛好好不好所以你剛剛說根據美國NRC的標準但是美國之前已經把目標放在22個月現在已經改進到18個月你要除以已經不像過去一樣這是我要提供給主委的\n\n02:26.141 --> 02:26.261\n4年超過了\n\n02:55.356 --> 03:01.191\n核三廠也是目前進度到哪裡已經經過環評送到你們這邊來了嗎送到你們的核安委員會了嗎\n\n03:04.292 --> 03:29.452\n合廠除疫審查通過．但是環評還沒有獲得許可臺電告訴我說已經拿到環境部的除疫許可的環評報告主委你真的要掌握訊息這是臺電說的我掌握完全掌握訊息環境許可還沒有完全這個程序還沒有完全完成那主要的原因是\n\n03:30.453 --> 03:30.493\n主席\n\n04:00.453 --> 04:06.555\n這個要問台電跟經濟部我沒有辦法回應這個問題所以主委你還是用你的土木的這個結構問題來告訴我我只負責好那一塊安全就好其實不是的這是一個整個的我們的一個大環境的部分我只告訴你我徹底的懷疑透過這個方式裡面在延宕來我們往下來看而且我也非常關心那是我那個時候五年前站在這個地方我不斷的問到的中期戰衝就是\n\n04:29.361 --> 04:44.350\n現在到核廢料的問題我們現在不要談到最終儲存場我們只提到一個中期有關於核廢的這個規劃的進度我們看下一張那目前的這個處理方法行政院的態度是非常的消極的因為我們有一個非核家運的推動小組沒錯吧\n\n04:45.630 --> 04:54.660\n之前你看看他就要求要提出來這個儲存場並且提出構想你看三次會議四次會議不斷的要求低放射線的高放射線的對不對而且有10萬噸的這個低放射線這個部分給我們一個中期儲存場一連串的開會開到\n\n05:03.109 --> 05:09.012\n拜託都要求你們提出一個選址的方案等等之類請問現在目前進度到哪裡開到第6次竟然來告訴大家不要讓核四公投留於政黨對決非核家園怎麼在討論這樣的問題我只請問這個問題到底到哪裡了核料問題的中期儲存目前為止是到什麼地方了\n\n05:24.323 --> 05:38.338\n這個中期儲存設施目前還沒有非常具體的進展所以已經從2018你們非核你是不是要質疑一下非核家園的推動小組目前都在幹什麼從那個時候一直提提提到現在什麼時候開第7次會議主委什麼時候開第7次會議\n\n05:42.305 --> 06:05.988\n這個是行政院在推動這個非核小組的推動小組在安排那麼我們會裡面呢其實有在112年有主動來然後呢我只要請問主委你知道什麼時候是第7次已經從2018到現在開的7次會議都完全無效而且第6次到現在已經3年沒有開了我都不曉得行政院的非核家園的小組都在幹什麼\n\n06:06.909 --> 06:19.061\n這麼一個重要的事情所以我真的為我們現在的總統賴清德覺得很不值他在法務部的時候已經把38個這個死刑犯留給賴清德現在你們要把這個所謂的廢核的這個場子又留給賴清德我真不曉得他該怎麼來當這個總統我只問第7次會議在什麼地方\n\n06:23.206 --> 06:50.798\n你也沒辦法替非核家園來回答對不對這個是行政院在召開所以說嘛那你們沒辦法主動嗎因為這大家從過去到現在一直不再關切所以這可能跟你們降級到第三級你們真的沒有太多的發語權以前原能會可能還有辦法更積極的我們再下來看因為我時間非常的有限所以你認為剛剛已經很多人提到了核融合式綠電嗎我們接下來看因為目前為止台灣的核融合技術你認為只停留在基礎的研究範圍嗎\n\n06:52.578 --> 07:18.254\n因為我們只花了3500萬對不對這個技術裡面來說跟美國跟其他西歐親近的國家當他們認為要合融合的部分來說我們的價值我們的錢我們所研發的費用這是遠遠的不如所以呢我們的上次的問到中研院他們也積極希望能夠在未來十年當中能夠達到所謂合融的商轉目標你認為以你的判斷用學者的判斷你認為有可能嗎\n\n07:19.574 --> 07:39.413\n未來10年還是有一些挑戰這個全世界前沿的研究團隊其實投入大量的資源在做這個但是我們國內在這個地方其實還是在起步的階段那麼國科會其實這個計畫是一個整合型計畫其實是相對的基礎研究\n\n07:40.194 --> 07:40.654\n在座的蔡美玉\n\n08:06.863 --> 08:06.923\n委員會主席\n\n08:28.692 --> 08:28.872\n3月27日及28日\n\n08:49.588 --> 08:49.648\n委員會主席\n\n09:07.529 --> 09:35.796\n主委你雖然是土木系的但是你竟然在這個位置裏面不要一天到晚用非常保守的方法告訴我安全安全核能公司難道不討論安全嗎他們自己是在裏面的核電廠裏面來工作他們能夠不第一時間感受到安全嗎這才是本行今天告訴你核能的問題總統考題必選但是呢你們應該更有積極的作為因為你們都是學者專家你們的提問可有辦法來去做到這個最大的目的我跟科委員報告我完全同意科委員的想法\n\n09:36.716 --> 09:59.803\n人才培育包含核工人才物理的核子物理的人才都是非常需要我在會裡面事實上也有提出相關的方案那我就在這裡不做一些贅述但是我希望主委竟然在這個位置上面請好好的為我們的核能核工人才耐事成我們台灣未來能源最大的希望好嗎謝謝一定的謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.428,"end":8.589,"text":"主委長,我上次來這邊提出有關核安問題的時候那時候是原能會,現在是核安會我會請在場的所有你帶領的這些所謂的同仁目前為止哪一位是跟清大核工系背景有關的請舉手一下好嗎"},{"start":31.416,"end":50.44,"text":"你看一排其實這是一個正常的現象因為主委是來自於一個圖目的結構所以他信誓旦旦不斷的在當候孟凱委員問他有關核能的問題他完全把他轉到我想跟每個人背景有關我們就一一來去看這個背景的不同會造成我們提問的很大的一個不同我們先來看一下我延續剛剛孟凱委員的一個說法因為這個所謂的核能的問題就是總統大選的必考題"},{"start":56.681,"end":57.301,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":75.37,"end":81.695,"text":"如果賴總統他可能說要讓我們已經停機的核能機組維持在一個未來可用的緊急狀況之下目前規劃是這樣我們往下來看那如果這是一個事實的話那我請問有關研議的執照是必須在有效的屆滿了5年到15年提出申請那是不是這個法一定要做一個修正以備緊急使用的時候要用如果說是5到10年這是這個法是完全沒有辦法配合賴總統所提到的"},{"start":106.598,"end":117.272,"text":"5至15年其實這個規定也沿襲美國NRC核管會相關的規定"},{"start":122.957,"end":145.161,"text":"主委的聲音速度比較慢你跟我大概1比3的速度所以我們就還是大家互相調配加起來除以2剛剛好好不好所以你剛剛說根據美國NRC的標準但是美國之前已經把目標放在22個月現在已經改進到18個月你要除以已經不像過去一樣這是我要提供給主委的"},{"start":146.141,"end":146.261,"text":"4年超過了"},{"start":175.356,"end":181.191,"text":"核三廠也是目前進度到哪裡已經經過環評送到你們這邊來了嗎送到你們的核安委員會了嗎"},{"start":184.292,"end":209.452,"text":"合廠除疫審查通過．但是環評還沒有獲得許可臺電告訴我說已經拿到環境部的除疫許可的環評報告主委你真的要掌握訊息這是臺電說的我掌握完全掌握訊息環境許可還沒有完全這個程序還沒有完全完成那主要的原因是"},{"start":210.453,"end":210.493,"text":"主席"},{"start":240.453,"end":246.555,"text":"這個要問台電跟經濟部我沒有辦法回應這個問題所以主委你還是用你的土木的這個結構問題來告訴我我只負責好那一塊安全就好其實不是的這是一個整個的我們的一個大環境的部分我只告訴你我徹底的懷疑透過這個方式裡面在延宕來我們往下來看而且我也非常關心那是我那個時候五年前站在這個地方我不斷的問到的中期戰衝就是"},{"start":269.361,"end":284.35,"text":"現在到核廢料的問題我們現在不要談到最終儲存場我們只提到一個中期有關於核廢的這個規劃的進度我們看下一張那目前的這個處理方法行政院的態度是非常的消極的因為我們有一個非核家運的推動小組沒錯吧"},{"start":285.63,"end":294.66,"text":"之前你看看他就要求要提出來這個儲存場並且提出構想你看三次會議四次會議不斷的要求低放射線的高放射線的對不對而且有10萬噸的這個低放射線這個部分給我們一個中期儲存場一連串的開會開到"},{"start":303.109,"end":309.012,"text":"拜託都要求你們提出一個選址的方案等等之類請問現在目前進度到哪裡開到第6次竟然來告訴大家不要讓核四公投留於政黨對決非核家園怎麼在討論這樣的問題我只請問這個問題到底到哪裡了核料問題的中期儲存目前為止是到什麼地方了"},{"start":324.323,"end":338.338,"text":"這個中期儲存設施目前還沒有非常具體的進展所以已經從2018你們非核你是不是要質疑一下非核家園的推動小組目前都在幹什麼從那個時候一直提提提到現在什麼時候開第7次會議主委什麼時候開第7次會議"},{"start":342.305,"end":365.988,"text":"這個是行政院在推動這個非核小組的推動小組在安排那麼我們會裡面呢其實有在112年有主動來然後呢我只要請問主委你知道什麼時候是第7次已經從2018到現在開的7次會議都完全無效而且第6次到現在已經3年沒有開了我都不曉得行政院的非核家園的小組都在幹什麼"},{"start":366.909,"end":379.061,"text":"這麼一個重要的事情所以我真的為我們現在的總統賴清德覺得很不值他在法務部的時候已經把38個這個死刑犯留給賴清德現在你們要把這個所謂的廢核的這個場子又留給賴清德我真不曉得他該怎麼來當這個總統我只問第7次會議在什麼地方"},{"start":383.206,"end":410.798,"text":"你也沒辦法替非核家園來回答對不對這個是行政院在召開所以說嘛那你們沒辦法主動嗎因為這大家從過去到現在一直不再關切所以這可能跟你們降級到第三級你們真的沒有太多的發語權以前原能會可能還有辦法更積極的我們再下來看因為我時間非常的有限所以你認為剛剛已經很多人提到了核融合式綠電嗎我們接下來看因為目前為止台灣的核融合技術你認為只停留在基礎的研究範圍嗎"},{"start":412.578,"end":438.254,"text":"因為我們只花了3500萬對不對這個技術裡面來說跟美國跟其他西歐親近的國家當他們認為要合融合的部分來說我們的價值我們的錢我們所研發的費用這是遠遠的不如所以呢我們的上次的問到中研院他們也積極希望能夠在未來十年當中能夠達到所謂合融的商轉目標你認為以你的判斷用學者的判斷你認為有可能嗎"},{"start":439.574,"end":459.413,"text":"未來10年還是有一些挑戰這個全世界前沿的研究團隊其實投入大量的資源在做這個但是我們國內在這個地方其實還是在起步的階段那麼國科會其實這個計畫是一個整合型計畫其實是相對的基礎研究"},{"start":460.194,"end":460.654,"text":"在座的蔡美玉"},{"start":486.863,"end":486.923,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":508.692,"end":508.872,"text":"3月27日及28日"},{"start":529.588,"end":529.648,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":547.529,"end":575.796,"text":"主委你雖然是土木系的但是你竟然在這個位置裏面不要一天到晚用非常保守的方法告訴我安全安全核能公司難道不討論安全嗎他們自己是在裏面的核電廠裏面來工作他們能夠不第一時間感受到安全嗎這才是本行今天告訴你核能的問題總統考題必選但是呢你們應該更有積極的作為因為你們都是學者專家你們的提問可有辦法來去做到這個最大的目的我跟科委員報告我完全同意科委員的想法"},{"start":576.716,"end":599.803,"text":"人才培育包含核工人才物理的核子物理的人才都是非常需要我在會裡面事實上也有提出相關的方案那我就在這裡不做一些贅述但是我希望主委竟然在這個位置上面請好好的為我們的核能核工人才耐事成我們台灣未來能源最大的希望好嗎謝謝一定的謝謝"}]}}}}